Mr McSweeney

Turning off the metronome. There we go. Okay. So I am here right now with the one, the only, mister Martin McSweeney. Mister McSweeney, what is it that you teach, sir?

I am a middle school music teacher, and currently, I am a band instructor, teaching winds and percussion. Teaching winds and percussion. Gotcha. And, who would you say, that you teach most, like, age range wise? Are you teaching sixth, seventh, or eighth graders, or or is it a combination of all?

It's a combination of all those things, but it's it's weighted towards sixth grade. So I have three classes of mostly of all sixth graders, one class of seventh and eighth graders, and then, well, I guess, two classes, mostly seventh and eighth graders. So those two classes are smaller. Gotcha. Gotcha.

And how long have you been teaching? Well, that's a good question. So in what capacity? I would have to clarify that. So what's your credential or in any way at all?

I would say let's stick with in in a public a traditional public school setting. Like, how many years? Not not including student teaching and things like that, but, like, as a as a, public school teacher, how many years have you been teaching? I'm so I started in 02/2019. So this is what?

So my fifth year, I'm finishing up my fifth or sixth year? Sixth year, I guess, because that's 2025. Right. So starting tonight so then tied to the pandemic, so 2019. Right.

But I'm counting the beginning of the year of 1921, '20 '20 '3, '20 '4. Yeah. Six years. Six years. Interesting.

Interesting. Okay. And, when you started teaching, has it has it been all in California? Yes. Gotcha.

Gotcha. And so as far as that is, what's what's I'm guessing Los Angeles area? Yep. It's I've been this is my sixth year at LAUSD, but I did teach five years before that part time. Gotcha.

And are are you a Spanish speaker at all? Do you speak Spanish or any other language? Nope. Nope. Gotcha.

So I imagine you had some students, that, spoke a different language. Yeah? Yes. Interesting. I I'd be curious as to know how you were able to navigate that here in a moment.

But, do you have, like, a a particular teaching philosophy? Is there something that, like, really drives you? Maybe it's it's, something that you believe that it's your job to give students, something that you try to implement every day. And, you know, I we work together. So I've heard some of these things, but I'd be curious as to know if there's something that you're very intentional about.

Like, this is why I'm going in the classroom. This is my philosophy. Have you narrowed anything down to that extent? I would say I try to provide my belief system is that I have an opportunity to help students acquire skills that will help them succeed and and not just survive, but thrive in this world. Not just in music, but in general.

So do you feel like music is the conduit to teach a lot of life lessons then? Yes. Right. So something they can take with, like, whether it's it's the commitment to playing a specific instrument and getting better and seeing that that's life is like a territory. You get what you put into something.

If you if you show up every single day and you lift weights, you're naturally gonna get bigger. And it's the same thing for your mind, I'm guessing. Well, that's that's one, dimension of it. Yeah. For sure.

Sure. Sure. But there's a lot more to it. For sure. Gotcha.

Would you wanna would you wanna expound on any of that? Sure. Absolutely. Yes. So, there's a whole emotional dimension to the learning process.

So let's say you have a class and you hit the teacher and then you get really frustrated and angry, and then you're not in a mode that that by which you actually are motivated to learn. You're you're just motivated to survive or something or get out of it or pass or go on to the next thing. Right? So, when you are learning music, inevitably, you're going to encounter, that will frustrate you. Sure.

And you have to learn how to deal with that and, not let it dissuade you from meeting your objective and and learning how to build up the coping mechanisms, the positive coping mechanisms to get you through the frustrations and the technical strategies by which you can acquire skills that you don't have on one day, but you're gonna have it in two weeks, you know, developing all these little creative strategies to overcome obstacles. Sure. Sure. Is there a way that you set up your classroom? I mean, being a band teacher, I imagine there's a ton of instruments in your classroom.

But is there do students have to come with their Chromebooks, pencil, and paper, anything like that, or is it just come with your instrument and your sheet music? Like, how do you how do you navigate that in in, like, band class? Well, I it's evolved. What I've come to do is that well, the school provides all the instruments, which is incredibly, luxurious. Right?

Because, I've been in places where there are no instruments or the students have to go buy their own instruments or something like that. But we have all the instruments, so I'm required to, maintain the instrument inventory, which has a whole job unto itself. Mhmm. And to maintain the, the functioning of the instruments, so they'll break and I have to fix them on the spot or have them repaired and keep them maintain them, keep them clean and all that. In the classroom, I have, oh, I have all the music is in folders in a, rolling cart.

And I've spent a lot of time attempting to organize that, and I haven't totally succeeded, but I'm on a good track to eventually get it very organized. The idea is that when a student takes out their folder, it has all of the relevant materials that they need. And this is a big obstacle because it's a huge time waster of, like, trying to distribute materials and such. So I have that organized, and I also have, musical terms with, pictures that ex with the definitions of the terms. All of the musical terms are in Italian, first of all.

So that's one thing. Interesting. So I I have them all over the wall, and there's an English explanation of what the word means along with an entertaining and amusing, animated or, drawing, a picture illustrating the meaning of the word in a funny way with, like, little characters and such. And I reference them all the time. Like, crescendo, and you have, like, a an alligator with its mouth open.

You can see it. It looks like a crescendo. And then on the walls, probably the one of the most important elements that I have is I have a whole swath of musical, history on the wall. So of musicians, important musicians, in a roughly chronological order starting with Bach because I think he's the most important. I don't go further back than Bach.

So it starts with Bach, and then it goes through all the, European composers, all the white dudes, and then and European white guys. Then we then I have, I guess, to Duke Ellington, the first American. And then after that, it's all Americana music and not very many white guys after that. It's all our our heritage of this country, sir, you know, the blues and and all through there. So Miles Davis and jazz and Coltrane, Aretha Franklin, Nina Simone, and some Hispanic musicians in there and Bob Marley.

And, and then at the front of the class, I have the poster says one world, one love, one peace. Mhmm. And so I think these messages are all congruence with one another, the whole idea. And then I also have on the wall a Mulholland wall of fame. So I'm I'm Wow.

It's previous music students that were in my class that were notable, that achieved a lot and worked really hard. So they're on the wall. So I'm sending a message to the students that they are an inextricable part of this musical heritage all the way from Bach, all the way through Beethoven, Mozart, Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, Aretha Franklin, Bob Marley, John Coltrane, and you. And Kyle. And Kyle.

That's right. Yeah. I love that. That's really awesome. That's really, really awesome.

And so let me ask, like, what about, like, the funds and everything? Like, so that's kind of the you know, that's that's, like, the cultural climate that you put you put, like, a feeling of belonging in there. But what would you say about, do do the students, like, have to buy any of their stuff? It does the school provide for it? How how did how is that how is that distributed?

The school provides everything. Okay. Great. So we provide reads, but it is you know, it's helpful when a student is able to buy some things, but we don't expect them to buy anything. And in fact, I'm not really allowed to even expect them or ask them to purchase anything.

Sure. Sure. Sure. And so okay, that leads me to, you know, English versus in ELs, you know, English language learners. How do you approach ELs?

Like, first off, like, if somebody is is is speaking in a different language and they're learning English, they're not there yet. How do you approach them? I've often heard, like, music is the universal language. But how do you, communicate, how to teach this? How do you how do you communicate with somebody who's who's an English language learner?

That's a good question. Well, I'm gonna draw upon our experience we had in PV. Like, I provided I provided the whole school with, a demonstration of my t some of my teaching techniques. Right? Sure.

I remember this. You were there for that day. I was. I was. I taught a lesson without using any words at all.

No one needed to speak English. I didn't need to speak English. I remember. You didn't even I don't even think you said anything. You clapped your hands nothing.

Right. Pointed to the audience, and then we did that. Then you went to different sections. You told them what to do. And then each section, you showed them what to do without speaking one word of English, and I thought that was fascinating.

Yes. I I didn't even realize that. Automatically understand. Like, I'm gonna do something and you repeat it back to me. And, that's part of our our musical language, which in my own opinion, I think, in all likelihood, probably predates human acquisition of spoken language.

So those circuits in our brain are older than spoken language. Cavemen were probably beating on logs and grunting way before we're articulating how calculus works. So when we do these things, people, I believe, innately understand. They get what you're talking about or doing. So when I clap a rhythm and I point to you, and then if you don't understand, I'll do it again, and then I point to you, eventually, someone's gonna understand.

And then other people who didn't understand, they, they suddenly get it as well. So they understand at a very basic level that this musical experience is communal. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

Definitely. That's amazing. So when you're approaching ELS, like, let's say even going down to classroom management, somebody's causing problems in the classroom. They don't speak English, or they're learning English and it's it's it's not. What's a strategy that you find helpful with classroom management?

Because Well, I'll use tools like, Google Translate. Okay. So you'll use okay. Sure. Sure.

Yeah. And I've learned to read and speak read Spanish and pronounce it out loud as well as I can. And I can use that as well. One time in the past when I was in I did teach a class a couple few years ago where no one spoke any English. Interesting.

And I did have a translator interpreter sometimes, but not always. My first experience with what you're talking about was obviously not in the classroom, but, I performed in the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in Scotland. I I did I did an hour long show for a month for a month. Yes. And it was an international festival.

People were coming from all over the world to, just listen to it. And I remember one time I was I was on stage. Nobody was interacting at all. And so I stopped the show, and I said, you guys are insanely, insanely, insanely difficult to impress. And then they just looked at me.

I go, you don't have anything to say. And then one guy goes, no English. And so the whole crowd did not speak any English. So this was before teaching, but it became this whole ordeal to try to understand each other. And it became funny, and it was fun.

And the audience had fun, and I had fun. And it was a great time, but it was just really, really interesting because I had no idea they were sitting in there not saying anything. So looking back on it now, they're being very polite and not rude. But it was just there was no response. And finally, I'm like, what?

Why? And then that was that was why. So how would you how would you modify that that's an example of me before I was teaching, but I did a modification of what the show originally was going to be. I did a modification. Okay.

Now it's this. So how do you modify, you know, for somebody who's like an EL? I mean, you kinda answered that, but I just wanted to know if it So through demonstration. Okay. Mostly through demonstration, and physical gesticulating.

I'm gonna sound a little Physical interaction. Right? So singing, clapping, and playing music, playing of rhythms. Maybe writing a word on the board in English and then writing that same word in Spanish or asking in fact, one good method is asking the students, how do you say this in Spanish? So some if some of the students do understand both languages, I could say, how do you say apple in Spanish?

Or I could say, apple? I know enough to say that. And then look at me and then I'll and then I can use an Internet tool to confer the word, and and then I'll write it in English and then write it in Spanish, and they'll understand. And then I'll use the English word because I'm not actually interested in the meaning of the word apple. I only care that it's two syllables and I can go apple.

That's the only reason why I'm using that word because it has a musical meaning or context. I can use a different I can use a Spanish word. That's two syllables. So Interesting. So I'd be curious on this whole thing on okay.

I understand how that pertains to music, but as you know, I am a theater teacher. So music is the universal language. We could also say the same thing for emotion. Everybody feels the same emotions. Everybody feels the positive emotions and the negative emotions.

Different people to, like, different degrees. But so there is that similarity between theater and music. But theater, for the most part, unless I'm teaching them how to be mimes or doing some some sort of physically emotional exercise to communicate emotions through, like, their physique. But even explaining how to do that might come so so what are some tips that you have for other teachers, to help EL succeed academically as opposed to because, you know, outside of music, how would you say that I mean, you you the Google Translate thing is a great thing. That's like a modification in the classroom.

But what are some other tips or suggestions? I would say the the key thing one of my very best friends is a highly seasoned and expert teacher at another school, at a public school, and he teaches Spanish. And Fresh. And one of the things he draws upon all the time, he reminds me a lot of is I think it's Noam Chomsky's, theory about, you know, you have to have comprehensible input. No one's going to understand what you're talking about if the input is not comprehensible.

If I just said something in Chinese right now and you get no other cue, you wouldn't understand anything. But if I said the word fear in Chinese and I made and you were in person and I made a face of fear, then you would connect that word with your with your, your your background knowledge. We all know what fear is already. You're connecting an unknown to something that's known. So you're connecting a sound, a new word, a vocabulary they've never heard to something that's, already very they're very familiar with, like fear, happiness, or laughter, or whatever emotion that you can easily display on your face.

For theater that would be that would be how I would go about it. Right? Sure. Hey. And then in that process, it can also be very comedic.

So when you make students laugh, they also lower their guard. % laughter is is is the way to get people to lose their weapons or lower their defensives. It's it's the best way. I have a friend. She said one time, she goes, if you're going to share your opinion, as a comedian and it happens to be something that might split the audience, she goes, at least be funny about it.

Don't go up there and preach because people are not coming to hear you preach. They're coming to laugh. So if you can make someone laugh who might not even agree with you then that in and of itself is like a a thing. Laughter is the gateway and As soon as we as soon as you don't speak English, they keep they're the next step. They're reaching out and you care.

You're trying to make them laugh. You're trying to connect to them on a human level. Sure. Sure. So if you're like, you can say you know, point your ear, listen, and you say the word anger.

Right? And then you're like, oh. Yeah. I I've I've used that before. I've used that before, and I make sure to do it in a comedic way because it's like it was somebody that actually was, he he was Ukrainian and didn't speak any English yet.

And I was doing that, but I was doing it in a comedic way so he would laugh and he wouldn't think that I was, like, legitimately upset because it could be very terrifying to see an extreme emotion like anger and then it's like why is this teacher so mad at me when I did nothing and I have no idea what he's saying. So it's like it's doing that in a very silly way to make them laugh. I I agree. I think that's a great thing. And so, like, I guess that would kinda lead me to maybe my conclusion, which is, like, that's how you make them feel welcome emotionally.

Because I imagine I mean, dude, we teach middle school, and middle school is insane enough because there's so many different changes in the human brain during that time period. So if you can make a kid feel like they belong because they're already scared of their peers because that's where the tribal stuff yeah. The tribal stuff starts happening. You know? We're we're we're shifted into our different tribes like cavemen in middle school.

And so if you can make them feel a sense of belonging, especially as an adult because as a kid, you look at adults as almost kind of like this authority. And if you can speak some sort of life to them, it's, it's paramount. That's true. But this, this is also a very powerful tool and something I employ a lot in helping them interpret music. So when we're playing music and the music sounds angry, I'm conducting them.

I'm gonna look angry. Give me anger. And then when we're playing a serenade and it sounds like, you know, beautiful quiet morning. I'm gonna have, you know, with the I'm gonna have that look on my face. You know?

And then I want it to be soft. I'm gonna emote through my face how I want the music to be interpreted. Sure. And that, they don't have to speak any language. They know what that means.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great way to put it. It really is there.

I didn't see it before, but there there is that ability. And just sort of talking to you about this, there is that ability in theater to be able to conduct emotion and show them. And that's, I guess, one of the ways that you modify something. You have yeah. Easily.

It's it's an emphasis on emotion and you can even connect certain words with emotion and you could help them to to learn. I had a Spanish teacher who she learned English by watching American soap operas. That was my Spanish teacher in high school. Right. And I know people like those.

Well, yes. Totally melodramatic. Totally melodramatic soap operas but the thing about it is is it's a very visual, almost like vaudevillian display of emotions because it's very much, hey, Gloria, what are you talking about? You're upsetting me. And then, like, you can learn English like that to be like, you're upsetting me.

And it's like, okay. I get it. It's it's it's a great way to be able to learn. You know? So, yeah, it just gives me ideas with theater because, as you know, teaching at Mulholland, it's a gigantic school.

And, our classes are filled to the brim, so we're gonna have to modify because we're gonna have ELs in every single one of our classes most likely usually. I think I do Yeah. I think I do in most of my classes. And a lot of times, they've been my best students in I have heard that so there's through scheduling, we're not supposed to have, we can have what are called? RFEP.

Re what's the word? Yeah. R F E P. Reclassify. Reclassify.

Yeah. Yeah. R F E P, I believe, is re and then I think there's IFEP. I don't know remember the exact thing, but it's it's where, you know, you'll see a lot of students who, at least in at our school, who Spanish is their language that they speak at home. Right.

But there's an important thing to understand here as well. Even though Spanish might be their first language, they may not speak that language very well. Oh. And that's an assumption that we make because we don't speak Spanish. Like, oh, well, they understand Spanish.

No. They speak their Spanish might be as good as their English, and they're like, can I get a pencil? Can I do this? And they don't know how to ask things. You know, they don't know the difference between all these words and, they kinda speak Spanish.

Interesting. At a very low level maybe. Yeah. And so that means you have to be, you need to be patient with them because it's sometimes, I've heard that there were studies done based off of human emotion and aggression that if you do not have the word to describe the emotion, it can make you more aggressive. And so it can be I I don't know how true this is but this is one of those things like that I've I've heard there were studies done for the the being able to articulate an emotion is connected with healthy expression.

I can see that. And it it doesn't sound too far off. So, it it it it might like in a case like this, it might have it has nothing to do with intelligence. It's just that speaking to learning two languages and and learning the yeah. It's it's it can just be a lot.

You know what I mean? Like, it's it's it's you're you're you're kinda getting a dose of each one, and it can just it can sort of spread you thin, I would imagine. Yes. So interesting. I mean, it's this job is so hard, and it's it's to do well.

Yes. It's not that hard to kinda do not so well. Yeah. To be a really good teacher. Routine, you go through the motions, and and then you end up blaming students.

Why didn't you do your work and why didn't you do this? But that's not a good teacher. You know, it's it's, really having to go back to square one over and over and over, really try to understand what that kid might be going through. We and it's hard because you got a 50 of them. So now it's testing your bandwidth, your capability of understand of being able to empathize with all those kids.

And so you're gonna have to make you're gonna be really quick at reading body language, reading emotion. And, some kids most kids are quite reluctant. And I think their biggest fear is to be discovered, to be found, to be exposed. They wanna hide. Most kids wanna hide in some way or the other.

So it's you got you work it out for you. So so ideally, my fate one of my favorite core philosophies that I I try to live to, but I fail, ideally, teaching is always an invitation, and that's something I try to keep in mind. It's always an invitation. Sure. Learning is it's an invitation to learn.

Come join us. That's a great way to put it. And on that note, I think that's a great place to exit. Mister McSweeney, thank you so much for your time, and, very, very informative. Thank you.

You got it. Alrighty. Talk to you soon.