Transcription
Hey everybody, how's it going? Chiago here, and welcome to my podcast, English with Chiago. I am super excited because this is the very first episode of my newest podcast. I'm launching this podcast now, and I couldn't be happier about it! I hope you are happy as well and excited because every week there will be one new episode here, designed to take your English to the next level.
So, I created this podcast with the intent of helping intermediate and advanced learners of English who feel somewhat stuck—forever stuck at the intermediate level. I designed this podcast to help you if you are in this situation. I want to help you go to a more advanced level of English and communicate with more confidence, more accuracy, more sophistication and clarity, and, of course, more awareness.
All right, so welcome! In this first episode, I thought that a perfect topic to kick things off is telling you my story: sharing with you my English learning journey—how I went from a complete beginner (A1 level) all the way to C2 level, which is the last level a non-native speaker can achieve when it comes to proficiency in English. I did all that from my home country, Brazil. I am Brazilian, as most of you know, those of you who already follow my work on YouTube and on social media.
I come from Brazil, and I didn't have to go abroad. I didn't have to travel to an English-speaking country. I didn't have to go on an exchange program and stay months there to learn English. I learned everything here in my home country, in Brazil. So today, I'm going to be sharing a little bit of my story with you, and hopefully, my story will give you some inspiration and also some ideas, some insights of things that you can apply in your own English learning journey.
All right, before we start with today's episode, I just want to remind you that I also teach privately. I have some slots available on my calendar at the moment to get more private students. So if you are interested in having private English classes with me online, there's a link to that. I'm going to leave the link in the show notes here on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or if you are on YouTube, the show notes will be in the video description right under the video.
It's very simple. It's a page where you can go, and then there you can learn more about how my private classes work, and if it makes sense to you. At the bottom of the page, you have a short, simple form for you to fill out. Basically, it's a short application that you're going to submit, and then I'm going to evaluate your answers, your responses, and if you are approved, you can become my private student. Okay, so if you are interested, I'm going to leave the link to that here in the show notes and in the video description on YouTube.
All right, by the way, this is a new podcast that I'm starting, so let me ask you already to follow this podcast. If you are on Spotify or Apple Podcast or anywhere else, make sure you follow the podcast, follow the show so you don't miss one single episode. If you are on YouTube, of course, don't forget to subscribe to the channel so you can follow the upcoming videos and episodes I will be uploading here on the channel.
All right, so on to my story. Let me tell you a little bit about how I learned English and how I got to this level of proficiency and fluency that you hear me with today. Okay, so as I told you already, I come from Brazil, and I started learning English for real at around 15 years old. You see, I didn't start as a kid; I started a little bit older. I was a teenager already, so up until 15, I knew zero English, and I mean zero.
For you to have an idea, I was thinking about it the other day, and I had this friend who used to live in the US back then. He was a childhood friend, and once I sent her a letter because back in those days we used to, you know, exchange letters—like written letters, you know, paper letters. She was living in the US, and I wanted to be, you know, cool, so I wrote the word "please." I don't know what I was saying to her exactly; I forgot now, but I said "please." But I remember that I wrote that word as P-L-I-S. Please! Can you believe that?
So I ended up writing "please." You know, this is just for you to have an idea of how my level was back then. It was really bad; I didn't know any English at all. Okay? And I would say that I was just another statistic because, unfortunately, here in my home country, here in Brazil, this is actually common. Most Brazilians—most people here—don't speak fluent English.
As a matter of fact, there is this survey, these statistics, that say that 95% of Brazilians know zero English—absolutely nothing. Out of the 5% left, only 1% of Brazilians is actually fluent. So only 1% is actually at the level that I am, for example. Can you believe that? And the other 4% are people, hopefully like you, who are at an intermediate level, pre-intermediate, intermediate, and who are trying to get to a higher, more advanced level.
So statistically speaking, this is quite common here, and I was just another statistic. I was just another Brazilian who didn't know any English. All right? But then something funny happened when I was that age, when I was 15, because for some reason I started to connect this idea of knowing English fluently, speaking English fluently, with having more success in my life or having more opportunities in my life. For some reason, I started to associate those two things.
I guess part of that reason, part of that was because I looked around my social circle. You know, I looked at my parents, my family members, my friends from school. I looked at the kids who lived on the same street as I did, and I realized that nobody spoke English at all. Nobody knew any English. So almost instinctively, I thought, "Okay, if I want to stand out, if I want to be different in a positive way, if I want to be unique, and if I want to have a better life or more opportunities in my life, I got to know English. I have to know this language. I have to know how to speak this language, how to use this language fluently."
Nowadays, looking back, I can tell you that I'm glad that I had this realization relatively young because I was 15 when I realized this. You know, nowadays I have many private students who are adults already—who are adult professionals—and one of the things they tell me sometimes is they regret the fact that they realized the importance of English only later in their lives, when they were already adults, when they were already working. That's when they realized how important English would be for them.
Yeah, but I'm glad to tell you that I was able to get this realization relatively young, early when I was 15. I started to desire bilingualism. You know, I started to really want to become a bilingual person. For some reason, to me, being bilingual meant having more opportunities, having more success, and it was something cool that I wanted to be, you know, to become. I wanted to be able to use two languages very well, so I chose Portuguese, my native language, as one of them and English as my second language.
So that's kind of how it started for me—how I got the first motivation to start learning English. But then, of course, nothing in this life is 100% smooth, right? Life sometimes is not sunshine and rainbows, as people say, right? So obviously, I had some challenges along the way. I had some obstacles. So let me tell you a little bit about some of the obstacles that I faced when I decided at 15 that I wanted to learn English.
Well, the first obstacle that I can tell you here is the fact that I don't come from a rich family when it comes to money, okay? So obviously, my parents couldn't pay for an English course back then. You know, I had some friends back then who were enrolled in language courses. They took English at school. Some of them even had private teachers who went to their homes to teach them. But that wasn't my reality, so I didn't have any of that.
I also went to a public school here in Brazil, so the English that is taught in public schools here is really, really bad, to be honest. You know, the quality of education in that department is really deficient. So I had to learn the language by myself. So I decided that I was going to do whatever it took to learn English on my own. Keep in mind that I was 15 then, so I am almost 40 years old now, so we are talking about, you know, more than 20 years now already, okay?
But then fortunately, I had this friend who took English courses formally. He was enrolled at a language school at an English school, and I kind of made a deal with him. You know, I asked him to lend me his old course books because every semester he would change the books—the school would change the book. So the deal was, once he was done with one semester, he would lend me the old course books that he wasn't going to need anymore because he had already used them.
So that's how I started learning. I started studying English with books, actually with course books. I remember that he also lent me a grammar book, which was really thick, really large. I think it was a grammar book by Azar or A-Z-A-R, if I remember correctly, and it was super helpful to me back in the day. So I started with the course books. I would grab a notebook, you know, and then I would read the grammar units or the lesson units. I would take notes of the words. I would read the sentences. I would read—these books also had exercises, so I would do the exercises.
So that's how I started, and I was really focused back then because I would dedicate one hour per day to do that. So one hour per day, including weekends, I would study English with the books—every day, you know, one hour per day—that was my thing. I started with a lot of input, so I started reading a lot and writing a lot.
I remember that that alone was fascinating to me already because I was using another language. I remember that the simple fact that I was reading something in English from a book and copying what I was reading and writing things in English—just that was already enough to get me excited about it. I was super happy already because I was like, "Oh, look at me! I am reading in English and I'm writing in English!" So if this can teach us anything, I would say celebrate your small wins; celebrate your small victories, because learning English is a series of little victories that you have. It's a series of small victories, so it's important that you celebrate those small victories, those small wins.
For example, if you are able to remember a word that you studied and learned recently, and you were able to remember that and use that maybe in a class—great! Be happy for yourself; celebrate that win. If you have just finished talking to a native speaker at a coffee shop for like two or three minutes—celebrate that! If you understood something from a movie or TV show—celebrate that! So it's really important for you to celebrate your small victories.
And back then, for me, just reading and writing in English was already a small win. It was already a small victory. When it comes to my speaking abilities, my speaking skills came much, much later because I didn't have anybody to practice my speaking skills with. I was mainly focused on input as well because, think about it, guys: how can you expect to produce language—to speak a language—if you don't have the input first? You need some input first, so I think the natural course of events is usually like that. I'm talking about when you are especially learning English as an adult or a young adult, okay?
Usually, we start with a lot of input. Even as a kid, now that I think about it, right? I mean, what does a kid do for the first two years? The kid only listens to English, right? That's just input, input, input, input. Yeah, and then at around two years, the kid starts to speak some basic phrases, some simple sentences. And that's not very different from the way we learn languages as adults. First, we need a lot of input, and then we start to produce more language. We start to communicate some ideas, even in a simple way, and that's how it goes.
Right? But in my case, the lack of opportunity to speak with people was a factor. So the first three years of my journey, I didn't speak at all—or I spoke very little, actually. So those first three years were spent mostly studying with course books and grammar books. One positive side of that, I would say, is that that gave me a very good foundation of the language—a very good understanding of the language, of the grammar, of how English is structured, and how to use the different constructions, you know?
So I don't regret that because I feel like that was a very good foundation. Sometimes I would try to speak what I was reading from the course books out loud, and my speaking was terrible back then because it's funny. When I read the sentences there—information silently to myself in my mind—I was reading super fluently, you know? But when I tried to actually voice those words on the paper and speak them out loud, suddenly I felt like a child speaking. You know, like I wasn't sure of how to pronounce the words. I didn't know if the word "laugh" was "low" or "louch" or I don't know. I didn't know how to pronounce the words, and I felt very insecure because I didn't know the correct way to pronounce the words individually, and also to connect the sounds in sentences. I didn't know about connected speech back then; it was something that I figured out on my own many years later, you know?
But I was still enjoying the process because learning English was something that I really wanted to do, and I was having fun doing it, so that's why I didn't give up, even though I had these frustrating moments from time to time. So another lesson here, guys, is aside from celebrating your small wins, be prepared to be frustrated. Be prepared! Get ready to feel some frustration in your journey because it's normal. You are learning a new skill; it's not a very easy skill to acquire. It's something that takes time, and you will naturally have some bumps in the road. You will naturally encounter some challenges; you will feel frustrated sometimes, even demotivated. But it's important that you keep going!
Something else I would say as a lesson here is make sure you are curious about English; make sure you develop this curiosity about the language. When I started to try to speak the words out loud, like I just shared with you, I instantly realized that the English language was very different from my first language, from my native language, Brazilian Portuguese—especially when it came to making the sounds and pronunciation. So this is also something that you have to keep in mind: be curious about the language, and try to understand how different English is from your native language.
It's important to have a flexible attitude towards learning English. Don't be resistant; don't resist the process. What I see sometimes in some students is they can be a little bit resistant to making some sounds. For example, let's say the "th" sound. The "th" sound as in "thank you" and the "th" sound as in "father" or "mother." Okay? In my first language, we don't actually have this kind of sound. We don't do this thing with our tongue; you know, we don't place our tongue between our teeth and have this "th" sound, or the "th" sound, so naturally, for a typical Brazilian, that sound would be a little bit weird or strange or funny to make. You would feel a little bit odd—like, "Oh, this is so uncomfortable!"
But be okay with that! Embrace that! Be flexible! All right? Understand that you are learning English. English is a separate language; it's a different language, okay? It's very different from your native language, whatever your native language is. So, be open to learning the sounds of English, to learning how you can produce those sounds. Maybe you're going to have to activate certain muscles in your face, inner mouth that you haven't been using all your life. So that's why, also, it's a process that takes time. Because in many ways, learning to speak a language well is about reprogramming your brain and kind of learning to speak again—learning to make sounds that maybe you've never made before in your life.
All right? So, be open, be curious, and flexible when it comes to learning English. But then, my journey really changed when I started working. I started working at 18 years old. I got my first job at 18, and I would say that my professional experience, the jobs that I got in my life, were crucial to my English development.
The very first job I got at 18 was at a drugstore. All right? So it wasn't a very glamorous job, as most jobs are, you know? It was basically this drugstore that was located in my hometown. I come from São Paulo, the capital in Brazil—it's a huge city. And basically, I had to do everything in that place. You know, I mind the cash register when a customer walked in. I had to help the customer get whatever product the customer was looking for. When we didn't have many customers in the shop, I would dust off the shelves, organize the medication, the products there. Sometimes the truck full of products would come, you know, with new stock, and then I would unload the truck, carry those boxes upstairs to the storage. You know, that kind of thing.
So I did pretty much everything in that drugstore, but one thing that was, let's say, unique or special about that drugstore was that that drugstore was located in a rich neighborhood in São Paulo, my hometown. It was a place that was full of tourists. There were many hotels around, and also, when tourists would visit São Paulo, they would stay around there in the hotels nearby. And obviously, that drugstore was one of the places these tourists would go sometimes to buy medication, to buy whatever they needed.
Since I was known among my peers at the drugstore as the English guy—because I was studying English every day, all the time—my colleagues sometimes would go upstairs to the kitchen and they would see me having my lunch and, you know, having the grammar book open there and studying with it and doing some exercises. So quickly, I became known as the English guy there, and nobody else, again, knew any English in that drugstore.
So, anytime a foreign customer or a tourist walked in, I was the one to be called. My colleagues would say, "Hey, Chiago, there’s a gringo there." Yeah, there's a foreign person there; go help that person because you are the only person here—the only guy who studies English and who knows some English. So in a way, that was very nice in my development; it was really useful because I started to have these short interactions with these customers.
I remember that I had a little bit of a script already in my mind. I would always tell them something along the lines of, "Oh, I've been learning English now; I've been studying English for two years or three years, whatever it was, and I love the English language. By the way, what do you think of my English? Do you have any feedback to give me?" So I used to do that all the time with those customers. I always asked them for feedback.
And this is another lesson, guys, that I can share here with you: sometimes we might feel insecure about something because we don't have enough feedback or enough constructive or positive feedback. So that's why I believe that it's important for you to have maybe a teacher who can help you with that, who can give you regular feedback on your progress, on your English. If you can't afford private classes or a course, maybe try to find a friend or try to find somebody who speaks English already—who is more experienced as an English speaker than you—and from time to time, ask that person for feedback.
So it's really important that you get feedback, both positive and constructive, because then that's going to keep you motivated to keep learning and to keep studying. All right? So I worked at this drugstore for almost two years, and I wasn't speaking English all the time there or every day, but from time to time, I would get these opportunities to speak for a little while with a native speaker or with a foreigner. That was already great!
But then I got my second job, and my second job was crucial in my English development, I would say, because it was a job as a customer service representative. Basically, it was a job at a call center, and I was supposed to help clients solve their cable TV problems. It was a job that was fully in English, and the job was about this: there was this American company in the US that provided cable TV services. But whenever an American customer there had a problem with his or her cable TV service, you know, for some reason, the TV is not working, they would call us. We were in São Paulo, you know; they would call the support desk for help.
So basically, the job was about talking to the customer, checking the customer's account to see if the customer had paid the bill—because sometimes the cable got disconnected simply because the person hadn't paid the bill—or sometimes we had to walk the person through some troubleshooting steps. You know, we would ask the person to unplug the cable box, connect it again, wait 10 seconds, turn it back on, and see if it works—that kind of thing.
So we would help the customer via the phone with these instructions, and then if the service was still down, we would schedule a technician's visit through the system so that an American technician there could go to the person's place and fix the cable TV. So, that was pretty much what the job involved and entailed, and that was a great experience for me because I stayed there for about a year.
That meant that I was talking to Americans on the phone six hours a day, six days a week, for almost a year. All right? So from Monday to Saturday, six hours each day, that was my job: to answer phone calls from the US, talking to Americans and trying to help them solve their cable problems. All right? That experience helped me a lot when it came to developing my listening skills, and also my speaking skills, my pronunciation skills.
It was almost like an exchange program for a year, but without having to travel and without having to spend any money because I was actually working, so I was actually getting paid to have this, let's say, this immersion. Yeah, so that was really, really interesting.
But you see, guys, I only got that job because I already spoke English. I already knew some English. Just combining what I had been doing before—studying for a few years with course books, grammar books, and then talking to customers at the drugstore from time to time—only doing that and practicing my speaking skills alone was already enough for me to get this second job, which was fully in English.
You see? So don't underestimate the power of studying by yourself and practicing your speaking by yourself because it works. It really works! And I would also say if you are trying to improve your English for work, don't feel intimidated or scared to apply for jobs and positions because sometimes you might be intimidated. Because you look at the job description, and the job description says, "Oh, we need someone with fluent English" or "with advanced English," and then because of that, you don't apply. You have all the other qualifications, but you don't feel like you have that fluent, advanced English, so you don't apply.
What I would tell you is apply anyway! Apply and see what happens. If you are already at an intermediate level, if you can understand English already and if you can communicate somewhat, apply and see what happens! I mean, you know you already have! So I think having this bold attitude is also important. That's why that is something that I always had, and I would say that it helped me a lot. Maybe if I didn't have this confidence in myself, I wouldn't have applied for that job because I would have thought that my English wasn't good enough, you see?
So that's another lesson that I can share here. Okay? Apply anyway! Be more confident in yourself and see what happens. And then around this time, when I was working at the drugstore and then at the call center, I was between 18 and 19 years old. That was the time when I really started to immerse myself in English because before, yes, I was studying with books and stuff, but I didn't have a lot of immersion yet.
So that was the time when I started to watch everything in English. We had DVDs back then; we didn't have Netflix or anything like that. So that's when I started to watch DVDs in English with the audio in English, the subtitles in English. I started to read more in English. So I made sure that everything around me, everything within my power, I would change the language. You know, I would switch it to English.
So I had my first cell phone. For you to have an idea, at 18 years old, yeah, guys, so I had my first cell phone when I was 18. And the first thing I did was switch the language of my device to English. And that's how I did, you know? Computers, TV, every device in my home that I could change the language to, I would change the language to English because I wanted to simulate the experience of living abroad. I wanted to simulate this immersion since I didn't have the chance or the money to travel.
I wanted to simulate this experience of being in touch or exposed to English as much as I could. So with a little bit of creativity and tenacity, I would say, you can make it happen. All right? So make sure you create your own immersion experience. You don’t have to wait until you travel abroad. You don’t have to wait until you go on that exchange program to be fully exposed to the language—especially nowadays! Nowadays, we have the internet; we have apps. We have so much more that can help us create this emerging experience. You know? So don’t use that as an excuse!
All right? So you can create your own immersion in English from your home country. Just be a little bit creative with that and use all the technological resources that you have available today. Still talking about my own immersion experience, I would do things like—for example, if I were at the doctor's office waiting to be, you know, seen, or if I were stuck in traffic, or walking on the street, or going to work—I would have conversations with myself.
You know? I would describe mentally; I would mentally describe what was—what I was seeing on the street. You know? Something like, "Oh, I see there are two people here. They are walking their dog. There's another woman there. She's running; I guess she's exercising." You see? So I would have these little conversations in my head, in my mind, just to practice the language.
All right? It sounds kind of crazy, but it works— all right? And I am living proof that it works! Okay? Something else that I used to do back then was sometimes I would go to a coffee shop. You know, I was working already, so I was making a little money. So I would go to a Starbucks or to a coffee shop, and then sometimes I would see a tourist there, you know, in line or something. I would always make sure that I talked to that tourist at least for a little bit.
I would start the conversation with something like, "Excuse me, you're not from here, are you?" And the person would say, "Oh, no, no, I am from the US," or "I am from Canada," you know, whatever place the person was from. Then I would have a little conversation like, "Oh, that's great! I'm Chiago! Nice to meet you! What's your name?" "Oh, that's cool! I mean, are you enjoying Brazil?"
And then the person would answer my question, and then I would say again the same little script, "Oh, by the way, I've been studying English for two or three years now. I love the language! What do you think of my English? Is it okay?" So these little simple quick interactions, guys, maybe they don’t seem much individually speaking, but if you do that a lot—if you do that often—so many positive things happen.
Yeah, you gain constant feedback, you feel more confident in your speaking and talking to people, and you improve. Remember, it's a process! And then, still talking about my professional experience, I would say that becoming a teacher was the definitive thing or experience that took my English to the next level.
I became a teacher at the age of 21; I was super young! So right after that call center experience, I became a teacher, and I never stopped. So now, it’s been over 15 years that I have been an English teacher, and teaching English has also helped me improve my language abilities because I always say that when you teach, it’s like you are learning again.
Because before you teach a class, you have to prepare that class. So you have to study the content that you are about to present, you have to think of examples you could give to your students, you have to think of different ways to say the same thing or to explain a topic or a point, and this mental workout, let’s say, is really beneficial to internalize the language even more.
All right? And when I started teaching, obviously, I started teaching beginners. I started teaching basic levels because I wasn't confident enough yet in my English, and I didn't even have the English skills yet to teach more intermediate and advanced learners back then. So I started with beginners, but then with time, as my English got better and better and my teaching skills got better and better, I started to work with higher levels at schools. You know, more intermediate levels, more advanced levels, and nowadays, that's all I do actually.
Nowadays, I only focus on intermediate and advanced learners, especially for my private classes, right? But that experience of teaching was really useful. Another thing that I remember, something really cool that also happened when I started teaching English was that I started to be in touch or in contact with more experienced teachers; you know, teachers who were 15, 20 years older than me, who have been teaching English their entire lives, and who spoke amazing English.
These teachers were amazing communicators; they had great pronunciation, great domain of grammatical structures; they communicated like a boss, all right? And I had the privilege to work with some of these teachers, and they helped me tremendously. I always tell this story: there was this teacher in one of the first schools I worked at. We were having this conversation one day; she was maybe 15 or 20 years older than me.
Then I said the word "basic." I said "basic," and then she said, "You know, Chiago, if you don't mind me correcting you, the pronunciation of the word is 'basic,' with an S sound, not a Z sound. It's not basic, but basic." All right? And then I remember that I was blown away. I was like, "What? I mean, I've been speaking 'basic' all my life for years now, and now you're telling me that it's not 'basic'; it's 'basic'?"
And then she said, "Yeah." And then she went on to explain to me that usually in English, nouns and adjectives that have the letter s are pronounced with an S sound. So the word "basic" is an adjective, so the S there has the S sound, "basic." Now words in English that have the S sound but are verbs tend to be pronounced with a Z sound.
So for example, the verb "close." You see? You close the door—that's a verb, so the S there should have the sound of Z. You close the door. But we also have the adjective "close." For example, "I live close to work," or "I live close to you." So since this is an adjective, now the S here has an S sound. So "close" versus "close." This is one example of more nuanced details that I learned in the language simply by being in contact with more experienced teachers.
So another lesson here is be open to feedback, especially constructive feedback! Because if somebody takes the time to correct your English, to correct something you say, be thankful for that! Be appreciative of that because that person cares enough to stop whatever it is they're doing and correct you. So don’t feel inferior or bad about it if somebody corrects your English. Actually, be thankful! Be grateful that that person is trying to help.
And, guys, like I said, I have been teaching English now for so many years. And throughout my life as a teacher, later I was able to take proficiency exams like the Cambridge exams. In 2008, I got the Cambridge Advanced Certificate— that's the C1 level certificate. It was around maybe four or five years after I started to study English. And then a few years later, I got to take the Cambridge C2 Certificate of Proficiency in English. Again, that's the last level a non-native speaker can achieve in terms of proficiency!
So it is a really difficult test, by the way. It's not everybody who is able to pass like that; you really have to study for it; you have to prepare for it. But it is a good testament of all the hard work, of all the effort that you've put in learning a language.
So now, I feel very fortunate to be in this position where I get to create content like this— you know, podcasts, videos, social media posts—to help people learn English because now I have this knowledge and this expertise. Not just the knowledge itself of the language, but also the knowledge to teach the language, right? And I feel fortunate; I feel happy to be in this position now where I can contribute forward! I can pay it forward; I can help other people achieve as high of a level as they can.
All right? And that's a little bit about my story; that's a little bit about my journey. Everything that I did and that happened to me so that I could get to this level of English I have today. And to be honest with you, I am still learning, guys, because the learning never stops, and the learning should never stop! Look at learning as something that is lifelong; that's why we call it lifelong learning.
Okay? So to this day, sometimes I learn a new word, a new expression that I had no idea about or sometimes I learn how to pronounce a word—maybe I have been mispronouncing a word all these years, and then I learned the right way to pronounce it—and then I was like, "Oh, yeah! Oh my God! Okay, that's great!" You see? So the learning never stops, and that's my story.
Thank you so much for listening. Again, make sure you follow the show so you don't miss a single new episode. Every week there will be a new episode here on the podcast, and if you like this episode, if you like this idea of improving your English to get to a higher level, make sure you help me by leaving a five-star review on Spotify or Apple Podcast, wherever you are listening. If you are here on YouTube, like the video, subscribe to the channel, and also leave a comment. Let me know what you thought about my story and about this episode, all right?
Again, if you're interested in having private classes with me, the link for that is in the description or in the show notes. Just go to the page, learn more about it, and apply if you are interested. All right, guys, thank you so much, and I'll be talking to you very soon!