Transcription
Okay, um, oh, there you are. Sorry. Hopefully, that doesn't happen again. My computer, um, decided to crash. Right, let me just set this up and then we can carry on. Okay, um, um, when you're ready.
Hello. So, I don't know how far you were listening to because you felt like you were listening to me and you said you were frozen. No, no, um, I last heard you said, um, about my decision-making and yeah, that's okay.
Okay, so I think I can make it sure that this question, uh, so, um, whenever I remind myself of, oh, this is it, actually, there is not me reminding itself, it's just happening. Even that is that. So, oh, of course, yeah, um, yeah, there is no one. So, a so-called thought of this is it or whatever is just an apparent mechanism of the body.
Of the body you mean?
Uh, oh yeah, right, like apparently happening, would you say?
Yeah, yeah, like thinking, feeling, tasting just seemed to be these apparent functions of the body.
Okay, so I said to myself, I remind myself many times about, okay, oh yes, because when I get involved with some thoughts which are not my thoughts, they're just thoughts, right? Happening. But when I realized that and I remind myself, okay, oh, these are not my thoughts or this is just what is, uh, there is no future, there's no past, whatever.
But yeah, wait, the either reminds itself, it's not existing because it doesn't have any power in the eye. There just isn't one.
Yeah, there just isn't, right?
So, okay. So, I mean, yeah, the apparent person would, of course, I mean, would hear this so-called message and turn this into another teaching or whatever, or a mantra, like you say. I mean, I used to do this too, like, this is it, this is it. It's okay. I mean, there's no future, sort of this reassurance kind of, you know, there is no one, there is no one.
And yeah, I mean, of course, there is no one, but the one who feels itself to repeat this is already not there, right? There's just no one. That means this constant, this sense of constant reassurance just totally collapses.
Exactly, yeah. I understand that. That's how I understand that this so-called difference between you with the no I, no me, and here being in me, is that an illusion that there is someone that can remind someone about something?
Yeah, yeah. So, like for me, there is a me that says, "Oh, yes, this is this." And for you, there is not a me saying it's just happening without the illusion of the meaning.
Apparently, it's so complicated.
Well, I mean, I mean, really, I mean, of course, there is no complication in that sense, so there just is no me and there is no illusion. So of course, me would say, "Oh, well, I'm me and I'm me and I've got this illusion and the others are, and you haven't." But of course, there just is no one. There is neither. So there's just no, there's no one talking to you, so to speak, and there's no one talking back here or whatever. There's just talking is apparently happening.
Yes, yes. Okay, thank you. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you too. Bye.
And turn off the camera now. So, I have one more thing to just, was thinking about what, uh, the first man that was talking, which I didn't recall his name, and I was saying about, "No, you're not changing in any future." So there is no one that can decide that if the change happens, there is no one deciding to change is happening for you or for everybody.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, but of course, I mean, in terms of, um, what Ben was saying, I mean, there, well, yeah, like you say, there is no one to change. But also, of course, there is nothing to change, right?
So, I mean, in terms of a message, so to speak, the fact that a message could even go from compromising to less compromising already even suggests there is a message. And what this is suggesting is whatever compromising, uncompromising, there just is no message, right?
Yes, because there is no one to say a message.
Exactly, yeah.
Okay, thanks. Which to me is the most uncompromising of all.
Yeah, with this so-called death, this whole game just collapses. There's just no compromising or not compromising or whatever. Have you heard that there are some people saying that this is a simulation and we are in like in a simulation and so nothing is really happening because it's like, you know, being an algorithm into some kind of game? Did you hear that?
Um, I mean, in terms of have I heard that? No, but I went through this phase, I would say, with life as a play or it's all a game or whatever, like a simulation. Yeah, I'd sort of had a little time with this one could say, and yeah, of course, um, with this so-called breakdown of me or whatever, the apparent person, I mean, this can be something that comes up or whatever the person.
Okay, things aren't as real as they once seemed, so it's a play or it's a game or whatever.
But yeah, of course not. I mean, there's nothing which could be called anything. So there's just what appears to be happening and there's no one. It's indescribable, and there's no one who could even try.
Yeah, okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Okay, in the chat, um, after that phase, then what happened? How did the breakdown happen? It's a story I know.
Um, yeah, well, I mean, there were many so-called phases one could say. I mean, there was a so-called awakening, so to speak, where, um, energetically there seemed to be quite a significant shift one could say, um, in me, so to speak. But obviously, I still survived that, um, even though I would have liked to think I was no one at that point.
But yeah, I mean, of course, then there just then one could say seem to be glimpses and this whole so-called game seemed to be playing itself out, meaning and being and Dario's are. And of course this feels so real for me.
Um, and then, I mean, then there just was this collapse, so to speak, and just that is totally indescribable because actually nothing happens, um, which seemed from the person is inconceivable because the person, the sense of the person, is the sense of happenings and moments and things and whatever.
So this so-called death has to be another happening. Even if Izzy says it's a non-happening, a non-happening has to be a happening for the person. It just can't conceive of anything else.
Um, and but yeah, really, I mean nothing happened. So in a funny way, it was just revealed, so to speak, that it's always been this. There's just always been boundlessness and there never is a contraction, just not even a thing, not even as an illusion, so to speak.
So, um, I heard you say once that you were watching Netflix, you got up to go to the toilet and you died.
Oh yeah, pretty much. Yeah, yeah. I mean, as simple as that one could say. And of course this death just didn't happen.
Yeah, really it can, I mean, so to speak. It could just all be over. I'm just watching Netflix and just thought it was going to be an innocent toilet break and just didn't survive. [Laughter] My last ever toilet break alive.
Well, I don't even think I made it there.
Oh, we have to know what show you were watching.
Well, I can't give away all my secrets, I'm afraid. [Laughter]
And I can't get that as being anything other than happening.
Yeah, exactly, like I said.
Yeah, the person can only ever conceive of it being another happening, of anything being another happening, which of course one could say just starts, one could say, with this sense that this Zoom meeting is happening.
So the person, it's, I mean, it's not even a belief, so to speak, it just is for the person this Zoom meeting is happening. I am me, I am sat here. It's just this so-called lived sense, which turns out to never be real.
Yeah, it was just revealed, yeah, one could say.
But you weren't expecting it.
Um, well, one could say so. In this sense, no, I was just going to the toilet. I wasn't expecting to die on the way around me. But yeah, in a funny way, one could say since this sort of so-called awakening I was always trying to then trigger something, trigger this death, so to speak.
And yeah, in a funny way, I mean, this just suddenly exploded, so to speak, so there was no expectation in that sense, of course not. I mean, I really, one could say that the so-called person is, I mean, especially perhaps after an awakening or whatever, or listening to this message, is constantly sort of anticipating. It's there trying to bring it about, but the funny thing is really in doing this, it's also avoiding it.
I'm just going to prepare myself for death so that I know, I mean, really for the person it's so that I know when it happens and that when it comes I can survive. When there's an explosion into boundlessness, I can grip on and hope to survive.
I mean, yeah, of course, this is the desperate hope, but also me just doesn't want this either. I mean, it's this loop. It wants this and it doesn't.
So is the me always expecting something, one could say? So yeah, in that sense, yeah, yeah.
So it would come to this message and then would be expecting death or an explosion or a collapse, whereas with something else, yeah, the me is anticipation, one could say.
So yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, constantly waiting for the next thing. What's next, what's next? Which one could say comes from the sense that I'm already here. I'm here. Okay, now what?
It can't just be this. Of course, it is just this for no one.
That's exactly right. I'm here. Now what?
Oh yeah, totally, yeah. Totally, yeah.
Okay, I'm here. What should we do now then?
Yeah, I mean, of course, and then there's the need to fix what's happening or control or stay on top of, ultimately to survive. I'm here and I must survive this moment, so to speak.
But of course, this is this sense of constant effort. There is no one, there is no one here, so to speak.
Hi, Edie.
Hello, welcome. [Music]
Really enjoy listening to you.
Oh yeah, I do have like a question where you are saying, uh, the expectation the person has. Expectation that to see through and to survive and then I, and you don't have any expectation as such.
Well, I mean, there is no one.
Yeah, is it possible to kind of explain the no expectation?
Did you say to explain it?
Yeah, like how that you, that there's no expectation left or there's no, uh, well obviously there's no one there to have expectations. But is there any way to explain, like me has an expectation, but how is it that the no expectation is?
Well, I mean, exactly because it's not. So there is no opposite. I mean, to me there would have to be an opposite.
Okay, so me has expectation. So then what's the opposite with this death? Then there must be this sense of no expectation or whatever. But no, I mean, there's just no sense.
So whatever this whole game, this whole dynamic energetically just collapses and dies, so there's just no one to have an expectation or not.
So this sense of there always being something or something next is not replaced by anything. It just dies.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
Which of course is totally inconceivable. What is nothing being everything is totally inconceivable to me. Something would have to die and then be replaced by something.
But yeah, there's just no replacement.
Yeah, so I wouldn't be able to make sense that there is no opposite. It's totally inconceivable.
Yeah, and the only person or the only thing that would want to is this sense of I am nothing ever make this anyway, even as I try to.
Yeah, of course not. I mean, yeah, let's just, well, there's just no one to try, even try.
And there's nothing to make sense of, so yeah, yeah.
You were saying that some people become more compromising, and I was thinking that even somebody is compromising or a different way of speaking, it wouldn't make a difference to you.
Even though it's still a me here, but it wouldn't make any difference because already the reason to be, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.
Exactly. Even a so-called message that seems to talk to someone isn't talking to anyone and there's no one delivering it, so to speak.
Even if the words seem to suggest that it's talking to someone or suggesting to do something.
Yeah, I mean, as I said earlier, there's no such thing as uncompromising and compromising. There is no one. Even if a body is saying I'm me, there's someone. No, there's no one.
Yeah, yeah, nothing's making any difference.
Yeah, oh totally not. No, there's no difference between listening to this so-called message and that is more like the first question I asked. What was it, about the expectation?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. [Music]
It somehow resonated.
Thank you.
Thank you. Nice to chat.
Thank you.
Okay, um, in the chat, but can't a compromising message keep the sense of expectation alive?
No, of course not. The suggestion is, so to speak, that this so-called sense of expectation is just not happening. So nothing could sustain this or keep this alive, so to speak.
I mean, yeah, me is one of the things me would fear, so to speak, is I hope I'm not perpetuating me. I hope I'm doing everything I can to become no one because it would be awful if I remained in me or if I watched something that kept the sense of expectation alive.
I mean, no, of course not. The suggestion is that this so-called sense of expectation is already an illusion, and it's an illusion that never actually happens. So nothing could, of course, get rid of it, and nothing could sustain it. It's just not there.
Hi, Moira.
I can click views on mute. There you go.
Oh yeah, I don't know if you can. Can you see me?
I can't.
Oh, I can't see your blood on there. Does it hurt me? Can you hear me?
Um, you did say when, I don't know what you were listening to before, after you had the awakening, all around about then that, um, you would listen to some people maybe and, but you had a sense that of using methods and practices, you had a sense that something weren't quite right with it.
So, um, I'm just thinking that's the same as a compromise message using, you know, who's telling people to use practices and whatever that something they can do.
And can you hear me?
Yeah, yeah. I thought I was told to myself again.
Um, yeah, you had a sense that that weren't right, and so I suppose when you went to Andreas in the end, he kind of cut through all that, no? Am I wrong?
Yeah, right.
So I'm just thinking that a compromising message does keep the me alive, I suppose, in a way.
But you had a sense that that was something not right about that, so you didn't kind of like go along with it for 50 years or something like a lot of people do, you know?
Right, yeah. Like go for that.
So it can have that effect then, it can keep the me alive if people, I don't know?
Of course not, not really because there is no one. But I know what you're saying in the sense that a so-called compromising message or whatever can seem to appeal to me, or this sense of me, which of course isn't there.
But this so-called, um, yeah, these so-called messages that seem to address someone, um, can seem to, well, on the one hand, appeal to me, but on the other hand, um, also just this sense that just, I mean, for me, there just was a sense that this wasn't needed.
All that crap, all that awareness inquiry just wasn't needed. But at the same time, it was very attractive for a while because, as you say, it offered me something.
Um, and whatever, I mean, some so-called people can just seem to sustain this for longer one could say, and just carry on with the practice and hoping that it would offer something.
But I mean, I just didn't tolerate it, so I mean, a year or whatever was enough, let alone 50.
I mean, there just was a sense one could say that, as I say, all this crap just wasn't needed. But at the same time that was also very scary, one could say.
And so, yeah, when I met Andreas, then, um, it was the same loop, so to speak.
Um, it was what, the other way around one could say because it was a relief in many ways that this was someone was saying it, so to speak, that none of that was needed and what appears to be happening is all there is and there's nothing else.
But on the other hand that was deeply terrifying because when I was still alive, that was, well, then what if I don't have to inquire, if I don't have to become aware, if I don't have to heal or become pure, then what?
So, yeah, I mean, I see what you're saying, but of course, no, nothing can be said to keep me alive because there is no one.
Um, but then me is terrified, isn't it really?
Yeah, really, yeah.
But it doesn't necessarily recognize that, that kind of like kids itself quite easily, I suppose. I don't know. It covers it up in the sense that me is quite literally, one could say, or so it seems, for me is fearing for my own life.
That's how me is fearing for its own life, the neurosis really that craps, you know?
Yeah, because then, um, then this whole thing of trying to fix that and survive, there's a neurotic condition, isn't it really?
To one could say so, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Desperately trying to survive, um, constantly trying to create.
Yeah, but there is no one, so yeah.
Okay, bye. I think I'll stop now.
All right, lovely to chat with you, Moira.
Holding on.
All right, I don't know how you take your hand. I can, I can do, I'll do it all for you if you want.
All right, um, yeah, nice to see you.
Okay, bye.
Izzy, hello.
I don't know what it is, but your message, which is no message from nobody, makes me want to break down and cry. I mean, I literally just feel myself just kind of shaking and welling up when I hear this non-message.
Compromising or non-compromising, whatever, this feels like home. And I've spent apparently 40 years of my life listening to compromising messages which I thought were leading me somewhere and I thought I was on a path and a journey and I ended up in worse shape than ever, with more pain, more neuroses, more discomfort.
And just hearing this non-message, I just, it just feels like home, whatever that is. I don't know.
Oh, it's lovely. And I mean, yeah. And then, I mean, if this is hard, one could say it can just be a relief, so to speak, if this has just had that there is no path.
Um, yeah. I mean, yeah. And anything, tears, laughter, whatever. I mean, I've gone through the terror. You know, the me is terrified, especially when, like you just said, uh, there's no path, there's no effort, no practice, inquiry, meditation.
Now what?
What do you do? Now that is terrifying. Just like you said, I've gone through that, I'm going through that. But at the same time, I'd rather the authenticity of that. Just the resonance of that is just, even if it's terrifying and uncomfortable, that's all that matters to me.
Oh yeah, I'm scared. I'm scared of death, but oh yeah, yeah. Of course.
Yeah, I'm just drawn to it like a moth to a flame and I feel like I'm getting burned up. My wings are getting burned up and I'm dissolving or what? I don't know.
It's crazy. This is crazy. This whole thing's nuts. It's insane, but it feels more sane than the way I've lived my life.
So yeah, in a funny way, one could say that, um, well, to me this does seem crazy, but in the end, so to speak, this is all there is and there's nothing crazy about it.
I mean, totes. I mean, it's not even simple, so to speak. This so-called death is unconditional love. Thank you, Izzy.
Thank you, Ben.
How easy!
Hi, Catherine. Um, there seems to be so much more resistance to this now than ever before. It felt like home, comforting, and now as soon as you start speaking, there's just so much fear.
I almost want to go to sleep. It's like, oh, it's so, so scary in a way that, um, yeah, I could, I could fall asleep. So I think because there's, uh, resistance, it's funny, it seems to bring more to the surface.
Um, yeah, it's, um, there's like a panic really here.
Yeah, totally, yeah.
So it may be some, something is heard more than it was before.
Yeah, one could say so. Um, yeah, I mean, yeah, I remember this towards the end, so to speak.
Um, there was this so-called oscillation. And obviously that this had been before with glimpses, but this seemed far more intense with, on the one hand, there was this deep resonance with what it was being said.
But then it became very clear that I was going to die and then that wasn't so fun anymore.
Yes, yes.
And it's not just, um, you know, one listening to you. It's in whatever instance that I'm in life, you know, maybe meeting, uh, friends at a pub or, and this shaky mess and, um, you know, it's like, oh good grief, like, uh, yes, it's, um, yeah, like shaky ground.
And you, you can't, yes, yeah, yeah.
I mean, even, I mean, so to speak, yeah, for me this was terrifying at the end, so to speak, energetically this was terrifying.
Yeah, because, I mean, we will never believe this in terms of death or whatever. I mean, it's always just a concept for me or whatever, but energetically when this was actually sensed that energetically there was no ground, and this was about me dying and, yeah, like you say.
Yeah, yeah, the message wasn't so, I wasn't really...
Oh yes, yes.
So often it's like, it's funny because it's like, you know, I, I'm on here on Zoom and at the same time it's like I can't stand this anymore.
Oh yeah, totally, yeah.
When does it stop?
Yeah, but even with like the conversation with friends this afternoon, it's like really feeling ill and you know.
Yeah, yeah.
And I mean there became a point I one could say where it was inevitable this was going to happen in that sense, that I was going to die.
And, uh, and yeah, and in that sense there was, well there was, of course, nothing I could do either way.
And so all these things came up, there was a lot of fear, a lot of sadness as well.
Um, but what really, I, I actually...
I'm not gonna, yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah, as I say, this was, uh, this was not so interesting.
I wish I'd never heard this message.
Yes, yes. You think you've made a mistake?
Oh no, no, that's not what I signed up for.
Yeah, thank you, thank you.
Thanks, Catherine.
Hahaha.
I mean, it, I mean, this so-called message has been saying one could say that this is death, and of course until this actually has sensed me, will never believe this.
Just reverse, reverse.
I don't want time.
Yes, and, and, um, I think when I woke up this morning, it's like realization— you never get anywhere anyway. It's always, um, yeah, it doesn't matter how many years or whatever, it's you never get to anywhere. It's like I mean it wasted effort.
Yes, yeah.
So, or whatever.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Hello again.
Hiya.
This is, there's nothing we can do to make this shift happen.
And in the same time, we're not here any longer. We've never been here.
And at the same time, there is never one, a person deciding to do this or that.
So the things, our suffering turns from this search of trying to do something.
But then again, that search is happening; nobody is doing it.
Just like listening to you, right?
So that I thought, well, the only thing left to do is just leave, is sleep, live life, live, live.
Sorry, the pronunciation...
Well, I mean, of course, there isn't even that, so to speak.
Well, yeah, yeah.
But by while the shift did not happen.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, right?
There was an easy before and an easy now.
It's different, usual. You were just talking about that.
Oh, well, I mean, of course there is just, there just is no after, right?
But you don't know. I mean, you did not know that until did it happen, whatever it happened.
I don't know what name he has, visualization, the knowing, the shift.
Yeah, yeah, this so-called collapse.
And, but of course there still is no one who knows that, either.
Well, but you can make a difference now when you speak and convey whatever is happening or you're perceiving.
Whatever you can convey something different now than before. You were searching and then you were what you thought it was going to be happening.
And then you went to the bathroom and it happened.
So what had happened if there was no one to happen to and nothing to happen to?
So what I'm saying is that that moment that what I call shift or collapse, I don't know, is difficult to express oneself if there is nothing, no words that can define that, right?
So I thought, well, since I cannot do anything for this to happen, it may happen, as I understand it, can happen to anybody anywhere.
It doesn't need to be a spiritual in the search person; it can be a drug addict, I heard.
So, I cannot prepare myself by meditating or because that I can do, but it will not help or not help for this ship to happen.
So, I mean, yeah, the suggestion is that this so-called shift or this whatever you want to call it, um, this death or collapse or whatever.
The suggestion is this just never happens, so of course me would pin this still as the end of the path, right?
Yes, but basically that’s it; it never happened.
Yeah, exactly, and I cannot say that, but you can.
The, I can, I, and that’s why we are listening to you because you have something to say that is different from here, right?
Here, there is a position when me and is happening to me and I have to do this or not that.
So what happens, the apparent difference one could say, is that this just has nothing to say, right?
So that's, uh, what happened to me after, you know, it's been a couple of, or more years that I've been listening to this message.
And, uh, at the very thing first thing that happened after a while was like, oh, so there's no point of pursuing anything.
But, um, easily it was like an inner thing, like, oh yes, right. So I don’t, how do you used to say it’s like obvious or something like that?
That's the word that you use, that there's nothing that I can do. And I was working in healing, spiritual healing.
So it was like, oh, so this doesn’t make sense, you know, to do anything. What for?
I mean, I could not do it any longer.
Uh, the bad happened, but at the same time now, that I go back thinking a bit, I think also that that healing was happening without me making it happen at the same time.
So, yeah, I mean, yeah, of course there is just by living, you know, live life.
Yeah, one could say there's just an apparently a live body or whatever.
Yeah, and that's just what appears to be happening. There's just no one in the center of it or anywhere for anyone, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I know I go. It still goes to the same thing, but it's like it's not, I don't understand.
Actually, I came to this point of saying, okay, that's it, so there's no more listening to videos.
Yet I go back a little bit to your, you or anyone. Not every day like I used to.
Once in a while, I go back to one of those things, but then I just paint and do other things instead of being or being a burdened with the fact that I have to look for awakening or enlightenment or something like that.
Yeah, I mean, all these practices can just totally collapse or whatever, just fade out.
And, yeah, of course, yeah, there's nothing to find.
Yeah, okay, thank you.
My pleasure. Nice to chat with you.
Nice, nice, the same.
Okay, um, okay, we'll go in the chat.
So the me is getting somewhere, always getting somewhere, one could say.
So, yeah, me is the sense of getting somewhere.
Yeah, and of course for a long time, this is always fueled with hope or whatever that I am getting somewhere and that I will get somewhere.
And, of course, the hope behind this, so to speak, is that one day I will finally arrive.
One day I will no longer have to be getting somewhere; I will have got.
Oh, yeah, of course. This is the sense of me. Even with this so-called death, it will treat this death as somewhere to land, and that will be what I will have got or whatever.
Um, but yeah, of course, yeah, this whole thing just totally collapses.
There's no sense of getting somewhere, but also, of course, me would want to replace this with, oh, and then this would be replaced with getting nowhere or being nowhere, whatever, or not having anywhere to get to.
But no, there's just no replacement. There just is no sense.
There's no sense of life or sense of whatever or anything. There's just what appears to be happening, and there's not even a sense of that.
Oh my, well, that's probably quite a good place to round things up.
[Music]
Um, so, yeah, I mean, this is wholeness.
Um, an apparent body sitting for an hour or so with Izzy on Zoom is just what appears to be happening, and it's naturally whole and complete.
It can't possibly become any more whole and complete or any less whole and complete or anything. It's just this already for no one.
Uh, yes, so the next meeting is this Saturday at 11 AM, and there's still spaces for Brighton at the end of next month.
So if you'd like to come to that, uh, just message me, email me, whatever.
I'll put you on the list. Can't promise anything new.
Okay, everyone, take care. Bye.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Bye.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Hmm.