Transcription
So, I've set myself a target: in 1 hour, I'm going to make as many phone calls to mobile numbers, and the goal is to get 10 "no's" in a row. People ask me how I got good at prospecting. I used to set little games for myself, and this is one of the games. My job is to try to get 10 "no's" in a row, and if I get a "yes," I have to start back at zero. So, what's going to happen over the next 60 minutes? Watch the video, and let's find out. I'm calling mobile numbers, by the way, or cellular phones for our American friends. These are mobile numbers, so no gatekeepers on this particular video.
Good, of course.
[Voice cut off]
This is a bit of fun now. Hopefully, the button will work.
"One, when you finish recording, please hang up or press the hash key for more options."
"Uh, Chris, it's Benjamin. My number is 07777 777777. Look, the reason I'm calling is I was in a conversation with a colleague, and they suggested that we should..."
[Hang up]
Midway through the sentence. Is that a "no"? No, it's not a "no." I can't mark that off as a "no." It's the famous phrase of all salespeople: it's a "maybe."
"Hello? Oh, hello, is that James?"
"It's not, sorry."
"Oh, I've dialed the wrong number. Somehow, you're not part of..."
"No, I'm not."
"Oh, I have completely dialed the wrong number. You're not a managing director of a company by any chance, then?"
"Hm, I'm not."
"Ah, president, CEO? No, nothing, unfortunately. Oh, do you want to buy sales training services anyway while I got you on the line?"
"No, I'm all right, thanks, mate."
"Do you sell for a living?"
"No, I don't."
"Oh, you lucky! All right, what? I've got the wrong details. I thought you were a managing director of a tech company, so I've totally screwed up. So, I do apologize."
"No problem."
"What do you do, out of interest? I'm just curious."
"You've got me. I work in investor relations for a FTSE 250 company."
"Oh, that's a big company, though, isn't it?"
"Oh yes, I work in recruitment."
"Ah, get out of here! That was my first ever sales job."
"Well, there you go."
"There you go, we've come full circle. Well, look, James, apologies for disturbing you."
"Yeah, sorry about that."
"Yeah, noise, noise. All right, cheers, buddy. Bye-bye."
That's not a "no." Don't know what that is. Can't believe it. I worked at my first sales job; I'd never go back. Notice how many questions we're able to ask him and how he answered. Is he an MD? No. Does he run a tech company? No. Does he want to buy training? No. Which company does he work for? What does he do? He answered all of those questions. I'm a total stranger.
"This is the voicemail service for... Please leave a message after the tone. When you finish recording, please hang up or press the hash key for more options."
"Oh, Sarah, it's Benjamin. My number is 07777 777777. I was speaking with a colleague, actually, and they suggested that we should probably..."
[Hang up]
[Music]
"Oh, someone's calling back. Hello?"
"Hi."
"Oh, hello, is that Sarah?"
"It is."
"Thank you for returning my call. Now, you are actually going to hate me; it was actually a cold call."
"Give me a go, why not?"
"Well, exactly! Hey, Sarah, so take up too much of your time. Are you the managing director at...?"
"I am."
"You are? And... so how can I help?"
"Okay, wow, right, so this is bigger than I thought. You got me here, right? Okay, so look, 30 seconds, and then if you're not interested, you can hang up. So, I typically get invited in by managing directors like yourself. They're usually successful; they're running very good businesses. But if they're honest, sometimes I think their sales are a bit of a bottleneck to growth. It manifests itself maybe you've got salespeople, and you're a little frustrated that they're perhaps reluctant or not motivated to pick up the phone and prospect. Or if they do pick up the phone, they sound so wimpy and needy that you think, 'I don't think I'd want to meet with them.' Or lastly, maybe you get in front of loads of people, and you know things are going well, but you feel your guys are maybe a little too quick to discount, or you find yourself quoting and hoping a lot.
Yeah, but by the sounds of it, you're going to tell me you don't recognize any of this. I get the feeling kind of...
"So, I'm probably the worst person to speak to in terms of a customer option for you just on the grounds of A) I deliver sales training, and B) I kind of don't need to do sales at the minute, and it would scare the [expletive] out of me if I did because we're quite happy with the number of customers we've got. Unless I want to start taking on my fifth building inside the last 12 months, and that sounds a little bit ridiculous.
"However, I do, because I don't do as much training as I used to, I do still have people that need your services. So, I've got no issue if you want to ping me your details."
"Yeah, if I have my other workout on, which I do some support of a couple of businesses in London, it might be that I can pass some leads your way of people that could really benefit from everything you've just said."
"Okay, well, that's very decent of you. Yeah, no, okay, tell me this thing because I am intrigued. So, you own five businesses by the sounds of it?"
"Yeah."
"Yeah, because you've got me intrigued. How did you manage to own five businesses and do sales training? Yeah, how do you do it? You're like super Wonder Woman; it's amazing!"
"By accident, it's probably my... So, I've done many years working with children with behavior, working with families, working with schools. I then decided I needed to be able to support the children directly, so we set up a business for children, and then I needed a way of funding that, so I set up a COC to fund it."
"That's incredible! Thank you, super impressive. Well, look, I have an email for you, and it's just random at email.co.uk."
"That's the one, so ping your details that way, and then I will send over anybody I think would be useful to you."
"Well, thank you very much. I probably tell you yes, thank you very much. I appreciate your time, and it's the most pleasant 'no' that I've had in a long time, so thank you."
"Good, there you go! See, so it was worth us talking. It was worth it. Thank you for calling me back."
"No problem. Hey, actually, one last question."
"Yeah?"
"Out of interest, I'm not sure if my message cut out when I phoned you. I got half of it, and the reason I called you back is because you said my colleagues have told me to talk to you."
"Ah, so there you go."
"Well, I'm glad you misheard that because I said I'd been talking to my colleague."
"There you go. Ah, anyway, good to know. All right then, Sarah, thank you very much. Cheers."
"That's a 'no.'"
"No, it's not a 'no.' It's a... damn it! I can't stop until I get nine 'no's.' I was intrigued to know why she called back to see if it did cut off, but she misheard it. She thought I said my colleague said 'no.' I didn't; I said I've been speaking with a colleague. See how wonderful it is when you use language that you know people are going to confuse? That's why I know people call back because they slightly misheard. See how easy this is? I want to get someone really rude; that's what we want because then I could just let rip."
"Oh, he's calling back. Hello?"
"Hello, it's just Andrew. I've just had a missed call from you."
"Oh, I was just leaving you, Andrew. You're actually going to hate me now; actually, it was a cold call, prospecting call."
"I know, I know."
"All right, so can I have 30 seconds?"
"30 seconds? Come on."
"All right, so, Andre, look, I do get invited in typically by successful business owners such as yourself, often in the IT sector. You're doing well; you've got salespeople, but if you're honest, sales can be a bit of a bottleneck to growth. Sometimes you can be a bit frustrated; perhaps your team is reluctant or not motivated to pick up the phone, or if they do pick up the phone, they struggle to get past gatekeepers or get fobbed off with 'can you send me an email?' Finally, maybe you have none of that, but your guys get in front of people, but maybe they're just too quick to discount, drop their pants, and you find yourself quoting and hoping a lot. But I get the feeling you're probably going to tell me you don't recognize any of these, though."
"Well, no, what I was going to tell you is I don't have... I do still have one IT company, but I don't get involved with it at all. The other one, I've just sold; I got out of it."
"Oh, the only business I've got now, we've got construction companies, so I'm not in the IT sector anymore."
"Oh, do you still have salespeople in the construction sector?"
"No, we just... all we do is we source land and we build our own projects. So, which is the reason why I got out of IT; it's very different because I don't like having stuff."
"Oh, you're a man after my own heart! I hate people too; it's annoying, isn't it?"
"So, put it this way, although I will listen to you, I am definitely the wrong person that you're trying to target because unless you can teach me... yes, there's no point. And to be honest, I wouldn't even want any more work if you could even give us it. So, that's where we are. We've spent years building up IT companies, and we sold them, and now all we do is we build big houses, like million-pound-plus mansions, and that's all we do."
"Did you build one for yourself?"
"We do do that, yeah. We build for ourselves."
"Good for you! Good for you! That's all we do."
"So, I'm the wrong person to speak to, but I do appreciate all..."
"No, no, it's last question, and I'll let you go. Do you know anyone in business not as fortunate as you that does have these salespeople that you may remember from the day or someone you hate that you'd like to send a cold caller to? Either's fine."
"I don't think so, honestly. I haven't really... even though I've had IT companies, I haven't even been in that sector for, I don't know, maybe three, four years. And, you know, for me, it's... I wouldn't even know who to put you on to. You know, I mean, put it this way: if I went back to the other businesses where I would know people, they've probably all moved on. You know what I mean? I've got no clue who they are."
"No problem. To be honest, I don't want to even get back involved; I hate... I appreciate your call. I look forward to hanging up my sales hat too, so I envy you, sir."
"Thank you very much."
"You're most welcome. Cheers, thank you, Andrew. Bye-bye."
Whenever I do this, I get people leaving comments saying, "Well, that guy clearly couldn't buy; why did you keep talking to him?" Well, number one, we're creating content for YouTube, so we need to have some depth to it. Number two, and this is the most important thing, I'm trying to demonstrate that you can keep asking questions of a stranger, and they will keep answering. How much information did that guy give me? How much did he tell me about his life? What did he get from me? Nothing. He didn't even get my name.
That's a "no," though.
"Oh, hello! I'll be upfront; you're going to hate me. This is actually a cold call, prospecting call, so not sure if you want to hang up or give me 30 seconds and then decide."
[Try this one]
"Oh, he just hung up."
Right, what do you do when someone hangs up? You call back and say, "I think we got cut off." We're going to do it. If he answers, this will be fascinating. Come on; he felt powerful at that moment.
"Hi, this is... Sorry, I can't take your call at the moment, but please leave a message, and I'll come back to you as soon as I can. Thank you. When you finish recording, please hang up or press the hash key for more options."
"Oh, hi! I think we got cut off. Sorry about that; probably a problem at my end. Look, if you want to call me back, the number is 07777 777777. Sincerely, apologies; my fault."
That is a definitive "no."
"Oh, let's highlight this guy for special treatment."
"Hello?"
"Hello, is that Harry?"
"Yeah, speaking."
"Hey, Harry, so you just returned my call, and you're going to hate me; it was actually a prospecting call, a cold call, in fact."
"Oh, right, okay. How have you got my mobile number, then?"
"How have I got you? I buy data, and it's on a list of data that I buy."
"You should probably try a more unique approach than just cold calling these days. I don't tend to find it works very well, to be honest."
"What would you suggest? Because trust me, the day I don't have to cold call is the..."
"Have you got a sh... I have, but you... so you don't cold call as an organization?"
"No, not at all."
"No, not at all. Is it because you don't like receiving them, that you don't like doing them, or is it you just don't think they work?"
"A bit of both, really. I sort of think whenever anyone cold calls me now, I'm just about like... so in terms of sales, and then when it gets down the pipeline, and then, you know, obviously, you're not going to win everything that you pitch for, so you're probably going to get 25% clones, whatever, of anything you actually quote for."
"We're actually not too bad as a business; we've had 35% growth this year so far."
"That's all right. Why do you still pitch and quote?"
"Why do we quote?"
"Yeah, I mean, you charge for quotes; you don't do that for free."
"No, no, you obviously don't know our industry very well if..."
[Music]
"That's... see, I've challenged somebody to do a quote, really. And of the quotes that you're doing, what's your close rate like, just out of interest?"
"When we get... we don't quote everything because if there's no... if there's no desire to actually, you know, some people you get too far, and you push them back and get to the 'no,' don't you? So we don't actually put a proposal in front of anyone until we've got to that point."
"Okay, all sounds like you're doing pretty well then."
"Yeah, we're not doing badly at the minute, yeah, to be fair."
"I like it. So, you don't know anyone then that's not doing as well as you that you'd like to send a cold call or to?"
"I don't know. What is it? Just yourself then in the organization, or is it like... don't you have a team of trainers?"
"If I told you it was just me, would that disappoint you?"
"No, not at all, not necessarily."
"Yeah, have you ever done any sales training? Because, I mean, most people hate it."
"Most people hate it, yeah, I have done it."
"Yeah, with... it was a few years ago, and we ditched it because, to be fair, there was a lot of value in it; it was a bit American, to be honest, if that makes sense."
"Who did you use? Because there's quite a lot of American companies."
"It was an industry mentoring thing. What we kind of did is after doing it for two or three years, we kind of took our own take of it and took the bits that worked for us because Americans are a different breed, aren't they? Let's be honest. I mean, you can't sell to... you can't sell to English people like, you know, in the same manner."
"There's bits, you know, we've got a process to our sales process, which is basically like, you know, you talk about, you know, look, 'yes' is good, 'no' is fine too. You know, it's kind of... there's a name for it; I forget what it is, but it's a consultative approach where you're kind of asking the questions, peeling back the pain. At no point do you reveal what you're actually going to do, but you just say, 'we...'"
"Yeah, you sound like after three questions, delving deeper on each aspect. I mean, to be honest, it's one of those things, though, you know, we don't... obviously, you don't close everything. You know, sometimes, I mean, I am intrigued, to be honest, that telling you charge people for quotes."
"Yeah, I mean, it's the biggest pushback I get when I meet with a company; they say you can't do it, and the normally is because they've never tried. And if you're doing something of value, it's... let me ask you a question because this is the one thing I realized with my client. What do you think the close rate is like on quotes and proposals that people pay for?"
"I don't know, actually. Now that you've said that, it has made me think because if they've paid for it, then it means that they really want it."
"So, therefore, yeah, you're starting to see... yeah, you see, the thing is, I know and you know that as a prospect, my job is to get three different quotes, and I may not use any of them because I'm going, 'Actually, I'm going with the fourth guy.' I was just doing a bit of market research. The amount of times you get used, or we get used purely for our data is unbelievable. If you actually sat down and you figured out how much it costs, I've seen grown men cry when you figure out the cost of sale."
"No, yeah, I know what you mean. And in certain scenarios, like there was something that I did a couple of years ago where... and I've stopped doing it now because it's just not worth it. Say that you get a company, all my IT providers, XYZ, and they're going to try and charge me for a project when you kind of get to the crux of it, you know that all they're going to do is hit their own IT provider over the head with your quote."
"Yeah, yeah, so I can see the value in what you're saying in that sense. If there is ever a situation where someone wanted us to do a comparative quote based on that scenario, then I just don't do it anymore. But what I could say now, having spoken to you, is, 'Well, I'll do it, but I'll have to charge for it.'"
"There's a subtle... but there's a subtle way of doing it. You can't just say, 'I'll charge you for it,' because people will run a mile."
"Can I ask you a question? Let's pretend, just pretend, yeah, I could show you how to sell quotes, and you genuinely believed it would work, and you were comfortable with doing it. Is there any reason you wouldn't want to spend half an hour, 45 minutes with me exploring that further? And if you're not interested, you can tell me to sling my hook and never hear from me again."
"Yeah, do you know what? Your approach, though, is very... it's quite similar in a sense. You know, like what you're saying and what you... it is quite similar to some of the stuff that we've been exposed to in the past."
"So you don't like it?"
"No, no, no, no, no. What I'm saying is that maybe some of the stuff that maybe, in a sense, that we are a bit rusty with it now, if that makes sense. Maybe we could sharpen it up."
"Well, yeah, I'm called the pencil sharpener for that very reason, so certainly a character, I'll give you that."
"Oh, well, you know what? It's much better. You know, also, there's cold calling and cold calling, isn't there? Like, I'm having a proper conversation. You are. Some of the people we get, I get cold calling me is like people from India trying to sell me software development. They can barely string a sentence together."
"Yeah, you know, and that kind of just... that P's off."
"Yeah, big time. No, I completely appreciate that. But, um, I think we've... look, so let me ask you, so do you want to invite me in for 45 minutes? And at the end of it, you can sling me out, and you'll never hear from me again. I actually do mean that because you can't hurt my feelings; I'm a salesman if you want to."
"Yeah, why not?"
"Right, Neil, why don't we do it?"
"You know, that's interesting because at the beginning of this call, you said you don't like sales calls, and here we are."
"Well, no, as in terms of like, you know, I think with yourself, the call has been a bit different. It's not the normal, you know, I can tell from talking to you, probably kind of person I probably get on with, if you know what I mean."
"Well, that's half the battle. My guard was up initially just because it was a cold call, and you know when you get that thing, and it's like, 'Oh, you know, my colleague, I was talking to my colleague, and he put a note across my desk...'"
"Whereabouts are you?"
"Bournemouth."
"Christ, yeah, that's, uh, yeah, it's where we come to die in England."
"It's the Florida, isn't it? It's the Florida of the UK."
"Oh, you didn't catch my name, did you? Or did you?"
"No, I didn't."
"No, I don't think I did."
"No, no."
"Do you want it before the meeting, or should we leave it as a surprise as well? Then at least I can see your email."
"Yeah, it's Benjamin."
"Benjamin, yeah, the name is Benjamin. You wouldn't have heard of me, but yeah, let's have a chat and see where things go. Like I say, and look, honestly, on that meeting, if you don't think or see any value in what I do, feel free to tell me 'no.' You can't hurt my feelings."
"Absolutely, yeah. And you know what? That is one of the things that I say already."
"Oh, wow, when I start the sales process, and that is part of what this process taught us back in the day."
"Wow, was that, look, you know, it's great to say 'yes,' but you know, we're not going to get offended if you say 'no.' Our service isn't for everybody. You know, if you don't see the value in it, then, yeah, you know, that's pretty much our opening gambit, to be fair."
"Oh, good grief! Yeah, this is scary; this is freaky how aligned we are."
"But anyway, well, look, when do you want to do this? When would suit you?"
"Me an invite, whatever. I'll shoot you an invite."
"Well, there you go! See, sometimes these... you know, I think that's the thing. I had a rapport with you straight away because even though I kind of pushed back, you know, it worked."
"Is it? So, you know, there you go. So cold calling can work, but I don't think we're not the kind of organization that's going to... that would probably start cold calling."
"No, you don't have to cold call."
"Yeah, no, and I'm not going to try. I'm not trying to sell you cold calling services or anything like that."
"No, no, no, no. I just cold call because I teach it, and if I can't do it, I can't teach it, right?"
"You see, no, to be fair, I know that makes sense. I got to live what I teach. Look forward to meeting up with you on Monday afternoon. I'll send you an invite over, Harry."
"Yeah, yeah, yeah."
"All right, well, have a great weekend, and talk next week."
"Yeah, have a good one. See you later."
"Bye, see you later. Bye-bye."
How was that? That was... he was a talker. Yeah, how cool was that? He went from saying, "I don't like cold calls; I don't believe in cold calls," to 20 minutes later, we're having a meeting off of a cold call. How it turned was this: I was listening. I was listening to what he was saying, and he said something, and because I'm not scared to challenge, I challenged him. He mentioned something about how they, I said they win 25% of their quotes or pitches, and I heard that, and I said to him, "Can I ask you a question? Well, why do you quote and pitch?"
And I'm assuming you charge for these. Now, that's a presumptive question, or you could call it assumptive because I said "assume," and I do that because the odds of him saying "yes" are pretty slim. I knew he would say "no," not guaranteed, but pretty sure 99% of the time when you ask someone how they charge for their quotes or proposals, they're going to say, "We don't charge." That's where I wanted to get him, and then that got him slightly thinking, and the conversation elaborated and went on and on and on. And like you say, I even said to him, "Do you know my name?" At the end, he said "no." How much did he tell me? He booked a meeting with me, still hadn't got my name, still doesn't know what company I work for.
Notice every question he asked me, I returned in a question. He goes, "So, is it just you, or have you got a team of trainers?" I said, "If it was just me, would you be disappointed?"
"Say it's a question."
He said, "Where are you based?" He said, "If I told you Bournemouth, what would you say?"
"Ah, you see, so the art of selling, the art of prospecting is conversational questioning, listening, and questioning on what they're saying. I don't go into these meetings with a wealth of knowledge. I don't go into these calls with a wealth of knowledge. I just go into it knowing all I have to do is listen and use my questions on their words. It's that simple.
Look, I'm not going to lie to you; cold calling is one particular channel. Yeah, use email, use direct mail, use all the other ways of getting in front of people. I mean, I've been sitting in now for about 45 minutes to an hour doing this, and I've had what, three or four conversations, and we got one meeting, which is all right. But could I do this constantly to grow my business? I would need some other form. So, like I said, cold calling is great for those types of conversations.
So, I hope you've enjoyed it. Yeah, damn it! I've got to start back at zero because I got a "yes" before I got my 10 "no's," and that's the name of the game. That's how it works. I couldn't get to 10 "no's," and I got a meeting. That's how I grew good at prospecting, trying to get "no's." I got a "yes." So, if you want to see more live cold calling, you better subscribe to my channel or watch this video.