Transcription
What does the science say about building muscle while burning fat?
There's no question in my mind that you can do what's called a "recomp," where you're losing fat while gaining muscle. Now, the extent to which you can do this is going to be predicated on several factors.
Can we begin by talking at the outset about why muscles are important to literally everybody, regardless of age, sex, or whether you're a bodybuilder or not?
Beyond the obvious aesthetic component, where you have more muscle and generally look better, the acquisition of muscle mass is crucial for health and function. We know that strength is related to muscle mass. Muscle power, as you get older, is also important. There is a progressive loss of muscle mass if you're not involved in resistance training, which leads to a loss of strength and power. This is related to the ability to generate force in a very rapid period of time, which is associated with falls and hip fractures. Falls can be extremely serious, but it goes well beyond that.
Your muscles are actually involved in various secretory functions; they secrete substances called myokines that are beneficial. These myokines counteract inflammatory responses in the body, particularly chronic inflammation. Muscles are also a source of glucose and glycogen storage. If you lose muscle, you have less capacity to store glycogen, making you more susceptible to metabolic disorders.
There are postural issues as well. A loss of muscle can lead to poor posture because you’re not able to support yourself upright as well as you could. Additionally, the secretory effects of muscles are related to mental function. Virtually every organ system is affected through your muscles in some capacity.
If we can take a look at the science of muscle growth, can you explain the process of muscle hypertrophy?
Hypertrophy, in simple terms, is the growth or increase in size of muscle. Hypertrophy can be specific to the tissue; for example, you can have cardiac hypertrophy (the heart muscle) or hypertrophy of the liver or spleen. However, in general terms, hypertrophy of muscles is beneficial.
The reason that muscles grow is that it's a survival response. The body cares about one thing: survival. It will adapt in whatever way it can to continue to survive. If it feels there is a threat to its survival, it will cause a reaction that generally leads to an adaptive response. If muscles are challenged beyond their present capacity, the body responds by increasing neural effects related to strength and hypertrophy.
People often experience delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) after physically exerting themselves, especially if they haven't done anything in a long time. Can you talk to us about how this soreness is counterintuitively a good thing to experience in the body and its relationship to hypertrophy?
There are some misperceptions about soreness. Generally, soreness is related to structural damage to tissue—not only the muscles but also the surrounding connective tissue called the extracellular matrix. This damage increases susceptibility for nerve endings to be exposed to various substances within the body that are sent to repair the tissue, causing soreness.
Soreness is a function of the novelty of the exercise. When you're not used to a stimulus, there will be muscle damage associated with exceeding a certain level of exertion. Whether that is beneficial for hypertrophy is still somewhat unclear. There is some evidence it may have effects, but other evidence suggests the effects might not be what they thought.
Too much soreness is certainly detrimental. You do not want to leave the gym or try to walk the next day where you can barely move. The goal should be to induce mild soreness or mild damage. The good news is that if you keep performing resistance training, your body will adapt.
There is something called the repeated bout effect. When you consistently subject your muscles to an overload stimulus, they get used to it, and it no longer poses a threat to survival. Consequently, there is less damage, and the body knows how to deal with stress, resulting in less soreness.
Talking specifically about training, does training volume and frequency really depend on your goals and the outcomes you want to see?
Most definitely. You can make very good gains with minimalist training routines. Spending an hour a week, or even two to three half-hour sessions in the gym, can yield significant results for most people. However, there are differences in individual responses. Some people need more volume to make basic gains.
I would say two days a week is the bare minimum for training frequency, if not three. If your goals are more ambitious, like bodybuilding, there is a well-documented dose-response relationship of training. Higher levels of volume, at least up to a certain point, will enhance muscle growth. To achieve higher levels of volume, you generally need to train more frequently because you can't pack all that volume into a single session.
Given your experience as an exercise scientist and your background as an award-winning bodybuilder, what would you say is the one unified mistake that people tend to make, especially if coming into resistance training from a casual or amateur perspective?
Most people simply don't train hard enough. The number one important factor in getting results is training with a sufficient level of intensity. Training hard enough creates a need for the body to perceive a threat to its survival.
What that level is can vary. A newbie can train with less effort because just doing anything is a novel response. However, after several weeks of training, when your body starts getting used to it, you need to start training harder.
The majority of evidence now indicates you don't need to train to failure, meaning the point where you can't complete another repetition. You need to be within a couple of reps short of failure to maximize your gains. Many people in the gym, if not most, are training far too lightly to see appreciable gains.
I also see many people distracted by their smartphones in the gym, which is a common issue.
I want to ask you about the term "time under tension." It's something I've heard a lot about recently. Essentially, it refers to elongating the period during which the muscle is under tension. What are your thoughts on this?
Research on time under tension is somewhat limited. However, I think the claims that there is an ideal time under tension for a given set are largely overstated and not based on hard evidence.
I've heard claims that 40 to 60 seconds is the ideal time under tension for a set, but there is zero evidence to support that. My doctoral dissertation looked at this topic, comparing a powerlifting routine with a bodybuilding routine.
In our study, we equated the total volume load lifted during the session. We found no difference in hypertrophy at the end of the study between the two routines, indicating that total time under tension is what matters.
What does the science say about building muscle while burning fat? Is it possible?
Yes, you can do what's called a "recomp," where you're losing fat while gaining muscle. The extent to which you can do this depends on several factors.
First, your starting body fat level matters. The higher your initial body fat level, the easier it is to lose fat while gaining muscle. Second, your training experience plays a role. If you are new to training, you will be able to gain muscle while losing fat more readily than someone who has been training for a longer period.
Lastly, the use of performance-enhancing drugs can accelerate recomposition. As you get lower body fat levels and more experience, it becomes harder to recomp. Generally speaking, you won't be able to maximize your gains while losing substantial amounts of fat.
Just to clarify, I know you are a natural bodybuilder and not advocating for performance-enhancing drugs.
Correct. I have never taken them, but I acknowledge that people do what they want to do. If someone is using them, it does make it easier to recomp.
I see people often engaging in bodyweight exercises or calisthenics. Is this something you would recommend, especially for those without access to equipment?
Bodyweight movements are certainly a viable form of training. However, it can be more challenging to achieve the level of effort required to continue making gains. There are ways to manipulate bodyweight exercises to make them harder or easier, but it can be challenging to do so compared to using weights or resistance machines.
If I had to put you under pressure and ask which you would prefer—free weight exercises or machine-based exercises—what would you say?
I don't think it's a matter of one being better than the other. Both have advantages and disadvantages. If you have access to both, I would recommend using both. Machines can help you target muscles more easily, while free weights tend to engage more musculature and stabilizer muscles.
Can we talk briefly about strength training for women? Why is this crucial, especially as women age?
This is an excellent question. Resistance training has extreme benefits for muscle tissue and bone health. As we age, there is generally going to be a loss of bone unless you are resistance training.
Women are particularly affected by this. More than three-quarters of osteoporosis cases occur in women. Osteoporosis is a condition where bones become so weak that even minor actions can lead to fractures.
Women start out with less bone and generally have smaller bone structures. Estrogen, the primary female anabolic hormone, has a greater effect on bone development than testosterone does for men. When estrogen levels drop during menopause, women experience a severe loss of bone density.
Resistance training can help stave off bone loss and even reverse it, even after menopause. It's extremely important for women to lift weights or engage in resistance training.
You alluded to this in a recent Instagram post, but could you give me your take on how much protein the average adult should be taking? Is there a minimum we should be aiming for each day?
If you're resistance training, I would say a minimum is probably around 1.6 grams per kilogram of lean body mass. For men, this would be around 12% body fat, and for women, around 20%. If you are overweight or obese, you should not factor in the extra body fat when calculating protein needs.
For bodybuilders or those wanting to maximize muscle building, I would recommend closer to 2 grams per kilogram.
I recently spoke with Professor Rich Kreider from Texas A&M University about creatine supplementation. He spoke glowingly of it, not just in relation to muscle building but also in other areas of health. What are your thoughts on creatine supplementation?
Creatine is certainly the most studied supplement for muscle building and strength. It is not a magic muscle builder, and the amount of gains you get is relatively modest. However, it can help build muscle, especially for those who are vegans, as creatine is naturally occurring in meat-based products.
I would recommend trying it and seeing if it works for you. You should temper your expectations, as it's not the magical supplement some companies promote.
What are your thoughts on the plethora of protein supplements available, from casein to whey protein isolate?
If you're able to meet your daily protein requirements through whole foods, that's the best approach. However, if you're not able to meet your needs, protein supplements can be particularly important for elderly individuals who may lose their sense of taste.
Protein supplements are a viable option, but they are not a magic solution. If you're taking in more protein than your body needs, it will simply be oxidized for energy.
Some great advice there! Get out there and start resistance training, and make sure you increase your protein intake.
The book again is called "The Max Muscle Plan," which includes lots of exercises and plans for you to explore. I'll pop a link to that book in the show notes for this episode.
For the moment, Professor Brad Schoenfeld, thank you so much for your time today!