Transcription
Let's go into a little bit of the personality side, and then I want to show a couple of clips. I want to get your reaction. A couple of them are selfish; I just want to kind of see when you're studying the body language of, you know, Didan when he's being asked about Tupac, how he reacts to it. I want to know what you say about it.
All right, a few things. How do you tell apart a psychopath and a sincere person? Because they're so close, right? It's tough. For me, I've been in sales for 25 years, and I have had relatives that were bipolar. You have to kind of have a 30-second conversation with them to see what person is showing up today. It normally would take about 30 seconds for me to be like, "Okay, I know who's here today."
Got it. Okay, cool. But over the years, when you go through different clients, different agents, employees, investors, you kind of have to size people up to see where they're at. How do you do it?
All right, so I love that you asked this. I get hired by companies a lot to do kind of employee screenings, all this kind of stuff. There's a company out there—I can't say the name—but it's a medical company. They make medical instruments for employee screening. They want to find people that, you know, they're hiring for sites, and it's a big deal. I mean, it could be a billion-dollar mistake.
So they say, "We want to screen out these guys that have extremely high narcissism, sociopathy, psychopathy." I developed this like five-page checklist that they could kind of have somebody take this assessment that would trick someone into revealing some of those traits. This took me months, and then I gave it to them, and they're like, "No, no, no, we mean just one. What's one question we can ask?"
Of course, they want instant immediate results, like there's some kind of Harry Potter wizard spell that they can do that's going to reveal this person's mental health. It took me a while, but we came up with the question. The question is, "What's the biggest thing you learned about yourself in that stressful time, that experience, that past relationship?" Fill in the blank.
I mean, this would work on a speed date. You know, what's the biggest thing you learned about yourself? And the answer is that it's specific to a difficult time. Is it specific to a difficult time, or what's the most important thing you learned about yourself, period? Specific to a difficult time?
Okay, got it. Or a stressful time. For some people, they're going to say, "Well, I learned that I have a tendency to overdo things," or "I lost my temper," or "I did something wrong." You'll get genuine lessons from most people.
And this is not some definitive test, so anybody listening, this is not some crazy perfect test. But with the other people, you're a lot more likely to hear things like, "I learned that I shouldn't trust companies right away. I should be a little more skeptical about what I'm getting myself into."
"I learned that I shouldn't make business deals unless I fully know somebody's background because people aren't very trustworthy. Most people aren't trustworthy." So you're going to hear all kinds of blame shifting, even in the relationship question, like, "Well, I learned that I shouldn't open myself up to a partner right away because they're going to cheat on me. They're going to lie to me."
So it's always somebody else's fault, and that became, to this day, that's the first thing that they ask in interviews.
Have you heard what Elon Musk says his interview question is?
No.
Can you pull up Elon Musk's interview question? If you go on YouTube, just put that same thing in YouTube, and he explains it in a video. It's do copy-paste; it should come up, and it's a short clip. I think it's that one.
Elon Musk talks about only two questions you can tell me about your level.
Okay, right there. Let's watch that one. If you want to skip to it, go for it.
It's always the same. It's just, "I said, tell me the story of your life and the decisions that you made along the way and why you made them." And then, "Also, tell me about some of the most difficult problems you worked on and how you solved them."
That question, I think, is very important because the people that really solve the problem know exactly how they solved it. They know the little details, and the people that pretended to solve the problem can maybe go one level, and then they get stuck.
It's so true. I love that. I love that.
Right, great. But what you just said is very important because it goes back to, "Tell me how you got a cold."
Right, kid worldview, worldview, other people's fault. "I didn't do it. I didn't get sick." Boom.
You know, tell me how you got sick. "My immune system, I don't eat enough vitamins. I don't exercise as much as I used to. My cardio isn't as much. Probably I got to get back to working out."
Okay, so all right, this person takes responsibility.
Yeah, when you said this, you made me think about somebody I had, and I literally told the story on Man yesterday. By the way, Chase, you would be great on Man.
But a guy asked me a question about, "Hey, I'm hiring this person. This is what this person is saying to me. How should I handle this? Is this a good sign or not?"
The question he's asking me on my end is, "You know, this guy, he's been wanting to work with me for all these years." He sat there and he says, "Look, I didn't work out with this company. It didn't work out with that company, but I know for a fact we're going to do this because you're such a great leader, and I can't wait to work for you."
I'll never forget, I'm at Oika Castle, which is a place in New York. I had rented this place out, and Rob, you can rent out Oika Castle. Nice place. They have great— the restaurant had great barbecues, which is the one thing I remember.
This one guy, who we had recruited at that time, comes up to me. It's 2 o'clock in the morning. We're done with, you know, cigars, food. We're having a good time, and he says, "Let me tell you my story. I used to be with this other insurance company, and those guys weren't as great leaders as the way you just handled this meeting."
"I used to be with this other company for six years and this other company for three years." The more he's saying this to me, and he finished, I said, "Can I tell you something?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "In the next two to four years, I will be the guy you will be speaking negatively about in another company because all those three companies you just talked about, they all have great leaders."
He said something about Primerica, New York Life, and Transamerica World Financial Group. I said, "Are you kidding me? They're all stacked with great leaders. I don't know what you're talking about."
The way he said it, it was just, "I'm next." You know, it's like you're going on a date with a girl. You watch to see how often they trash their ex.
Yeah, you will be the next one.
You're the next, right?
But what else? Go back to the psychopath because I've seen you psychoanalyze that one girl who was on Dr. Phil, if I'm not mistaken.
What's the lady's name?
The psychopath woman?
The, um, not woman, girl.
14, 15 years old.
Aaron Cathy.
Aaron Cathy. Can you tell us about Aaron Cathy?
Yeah, she was—it's C-A-F-F-E-Y, I think. Can you bring up an image to make sure we got the right one that Patrick's talking about?
Maybe even bring up the video with her and Dr. Phil, right? Her interviews. I mean, I've seen her interviews. That is terrifying.
Terrifying.
Yeah, truly. So this is psychopathy. That's pure psychopathy.
One thing I've noticed—this is my opinion, and other people may see something very similar—if you see somebody who's been happy their whole life, you're going to see little crow's feet form right here, even around the age of 19 or 20.
This is not like later in life. You're going to see them start to etch on the face because that's a very common expression that they make all day, throughout the day, very regularly.
Hang on, stay on that. That's very interesting. If you see somebody that's happy, can you go on the eyes, Rob, to see? I want you to be specific. Like, where do you see happiness shows?
If you can take the arrow to show what he's talking about, right there, the crow's feet on the outer edge of the eye right here.
Yeah, and you'll see little wrinkles from very frequent smiling, and that shows from frequent smiling. So this person's lived a happy life.
Yeah, or they smile a lot. Interesting.
Okay, so one of our things is our emotional billboard is our forehead. I got a freeway. I got four or five freeways. I got five, six lanes.
Yeah, mine's growing.
Yeah, so we—there's this behavior we have called an eyebrow flash, okay? About 80% of people will return an eyebrow flash behavior without even knowing that they did it. That's how socially responsive we are.
Notice, I mean, this is everything we're talking about with authority and leadership and all this. None of that has anything to do with language. None of it has to do with language.
So it's who we are, not what we say. Right?
When it comes down to this eyebrow flash, it's this. When we raise our eyebrows, we're talking to somebody, maybe for emphasis, and we're kind of bringing our eyebrows up like this.
So you'll see somebody who's very social; they'll have those lines on the middle of their forehead.
This makes sense so far?
All right, so what if I told you to make a skeptical facial expression, like you're really skeptical about some information somebody's selling you?
Some [ __ ]?
There it is. So the lower part of the eye wrinkles up, right?
And what about when you're hearing information that you really want to pay close attention to? Your eyebrows will come down and squeeze together, which is yours.
So you have those wrinkles, and this muscle right here is called the glabella. So that thing squeezes together, and you'll see people over time—yours is etched in there more than your forehead, more than anything else.
So you're analytical, like taking in data, making sure you get it all, process everything perfectly.
With our forehead being such an emotional billboard for connecting with other people, when we do this little eyebrow flash thing, you won't see those forehead wrinkles in psychopaths.
I still haven't seen deep forehead wrinkles in a psychopath. That little connection, that emotional connection that we make to other people and how we express ourselves and eyebrows coming up.
If I could, I'll tell you a story from Dr. Robert Hare. He's the number one researcher in psychopaths. This is from his book on psychopathy.
Dr. Hare is the one who wrote the checklist—the official, like, "You're a psychopath" checklist.
So if you imagine, he says, "I think Dr. Hare is only slightly wrong about one thing." He says that psychopaths are attracted to cities, and I think cities are more likely to manufacture psychopathy.
Tell me more.
So our brains are not designed—they haven't changed in 200,000 years. They're not designed for a gigantic tribe of people.
So in order for us to survive in a city, empathy has to completely disappear. This is why we have things like the bystander effect, which maybe you've heard of it.
So if there's people around, a large crowd, and you get stabbed or shot or anything, the more people around you, if you need help, the less likely you are to get help.
So if I told you, "I was like Patrick, on the way down here, I saw a guy that was getting robbed, and somebody was stabbing him, and a guy was filming the whole thing with his phone."
He was just standing there filming the whole entire thing happening. Would you think that guy's probably a psychopath, the one filming it?
No, no expression. It's just him and the other guy—him and the guy getting killed, and he's filming the whole thing.
Just watch.
What it made me think about is the lady who recorded George Floyd while the knee was on his neck, and everybody had a camera on recording it.
Yeah, and we have incidents like this with many different events.
That might have been different because of the authority of the police officer and nobody wanting to get in a fight with a cop, right?
So I don't want, "Hey, get back, get back, get back," because if you do, you could go to jail and get in trouble, right?
But sometimes you'll see a fight taking place in high school, and kids are beating up the boys, beating up somebody. Everybody's got their phone out recording instead of jumping in and helping out.
Yeah, so that's the example you're referencing.
Yeah, the death of empathy.
So, and the second part of that, a slight extension of that is social media is an artificial tribe.
So we go back to focus, authority, tribe, and emotion.
Now I'm tricking that mammal part of your brain into thinking that your tribe is bigger than it is. Those aren't real people; they're way out there. They're not in your community. You don't have to worry about them.
But I can trick your brain to believe whatever I want just by making you think that your tribal members believe in that thing.
So I can manipulate your mammalian brain just by showing you things.
Now we go back to the drones. I can normalize something just by overexposing it in front of lots of people, which goes back to the tribe again.
But social media is an artificial tribe inside of our brain that even still is bigger than our brains are made to handle. They're made to handle a small town, small environment, tribe of people.
So when it comes down to the behavior of a psychopath, this story from Dr. Hare is the perfect way to describe what's going on inside of a psychopath's mind.
So he talks about this psychopath, and he is in his apartment in a city one day, and he decides, "You know, I'm going to go get some tacos."
So he leaves his apartment, he walks down the street, he's walking to a nearby place. As he's walking down to this taco place, he sees a car accident, and a mom is screaming and crying and holding her baby that has passed away, maybe a 2-year-old.
There are people onlooking and crying and screaming with her. The police are there trying to help her and stuff like that.
As he's staring at this incident unfolding, inside of his head, here's what you're hearing: "I think I want lettuce. I'm going to put lettuce on the tacos this time. Maybe some sour cream."
Then he turns and goes to get his tacos and then walks back by the scene again, looks at it again, comes back home, and eats.
Then that night, before he's going to bed, he's looking in his bathroom mirror, going like this, just trying to mimic all of those facial expressions of people grieving and being sad by the car accident, just rehearsing those facial expressions.
It's terrifying.
It's terrifying to understand that there's no empathy in that person. So that's a pure psychopath.
So a pure psychopath—are you born that way? Because, you know, when you think about this again, I keep quoting this guy over and over again.
He was the last guy—the first guy that would interview people, Jim Clemente. I don't know if you know who Jim Clemente is.
He'd be the first guy to interview this guy. He was an FBI profiler who would interview somebody who just killed their spouse.
Yeah, and he'd be the first person to do it. I asked him a question. I said, "So what causes these guys to do it?" The psychopaths specifically. I asked him about serial killers.
He says, "Genetics loads the gun; personality and psychology aim; experience pulls the trigger."
From your experience, that's what he said.
So again, genetics loads the gun; personality and psychology aim; life experiences pull the trigger.
That's the most beautiful way I've ever heard it described.
Absolutely.
So you can have tons of genetic markers that are just loaded up, ready to go in the gun, but they never get triggered because of life experiences.
You're not going through any trauma. There's no huge stress.
Stress is not just psychological. You can have physical stress, like getting sick as a kid, getting sick as a baby can make those genes start to express themselves.
It can really make our genes do weird stuff.
We have babies that are born in the winter are more likely to have those genes express themselves because the mom might be sick during childbirth.
The baby might be sick in the younger days. That's not some guarantee or anything, but it's definitely well-researched that winter-born babies can have genetic disadvantages when it comes to the brain.
Can a psychopath be saved?
I don't think so.
Okay, got it.
So when a psychopath goes to therapy, what the therapist works on with them is, "Here's how to ask better questions. Here's how to make a face like you look like you're interested in something someone says."
Right? It's all just, "Let me teach you how to fake your way in."
So normal life.
Yeah, I had— I track birthdays. When's your birthday, by the way?
What month are you?
February.
February 23rd.
23rd, okay.
No, February 16th is Michael, 6th is Reagan, my wife's 14th, my son is the 1st.
So all February.
All February.
Wow, a lot of good Februaries.
So, you know, I'm just trying to see if there's any kind of—one of the things I saw about a profile of—and I don't know if I would even categorically put him in psychopath—but while you're in business, you follow these guys.
They're so good at making others feel sorry for them.
Yeah, and sympathizing.
"You don't know what I went through. If you only knew."
You know, like, you know, certain people don't like compliments. It's just like, "Don't flatter me. I don't want compliments."
It's just, "I'm good. Leave me alone."
I mean, if it comes from good people that are close, take it, but it's like, "I'm good. Yeah, don't feel sorry for me."
We grew up in the "never show hurt." You know, my dad was the complete opposite side of that.
But whenever you see somebody that is really always trying to make people around, and they're so good at it, at how to get people to say, "What a poor guy. Man, poor you. I can't believe she went through this. Unbelievable."
Right? And it works in so many different places until you meet somebody that's like, "Yeah, no."
So I call this fogging, and I use the acronym FOG, and that's fear, obligation, and guilt are the three master tools of these people.
This is psychopaths. This is extreme high-end narcissists, sociopaths, some people with borderline stuff.
But if you're seeing a pattern of fear, obligation, and guilt, I did a whole video on my YouTube channel about this, like how to deal with a narcissist, what to say.
But you have to recognize that I either I'm going to consciously choose to stay in this relationship, or I'm out.
No, and by the way, it's not easy to do so.
But if you accept it and you stay in it, they control you, and it's a lot of pain to go through while you're in it.
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