Transcription
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All right, we're back! So where are we at? Summit One Vanderbilt. Uh, shout out Andrew Mathias. We got Gary Vee in the house! We literally just wrapped up A-B-2, and now we're going back to back. Bob's still got a taco stand, the same pants down as always. As always, Gary is a guy who's always shown respect and been one of the most fascinating figures that I've ever met. He always pays respect to the little guys in the beginning. I remember I was messing with you and you messed with me when I had nine followers, so I saw the talent.
We also got John today, who's the president of Folsom, president of Happy Dad. Well, maybe he's the godfather—though he's the godfather! He may be because actually me and John always go back and forth, Gary. We always have like a little fighting thing of who can bring better guests on. So me and John have this thing, and I think you're beating me right now. You have Tyson technically, who gets credit for Gary.
I get credit for Gary even though you—you know.
No, you get credit for Gary. I'll give you that.
Okay, thank you. Thank you! Bob could have got me; I could have. And I know he sent that text prematurely. We were gonna have you come on board, Gary. Gary will probably, out of sympathy, just do it. But for you, it's more of a real business thing. You know, for me, I've known John a long time. I know I love that long time.
But it's, uh, I'm actually fascinated to see what you're doing in this whole NFT space. I thought it'd be cool. I’m so excited to sit down with you bros because this whole everything going on right now, I think it's just so cool that we just have a conversation about what's happening in this digital world right now and everything going on. It's—it’s so interesting!
It's interesting because it's the first time it's been like this since 1996, 97, 98—like Web 2—which, uh, John for sure, Bob for sure, you in the newest version of it: Web 2 kind of hitting 0.506, Myspace, Friendster, then Myspace, and then quickly Myspace, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and it all kind of popped off. But there wasn’t like scary “I don’t even understand what’s happening” vibes. It was like, “Oh, this is kind of cool. Like, can I watch Family Guy on this thing called YouTube? Weird.”
Web 3 is like seed phrase, cold wallet, NFT. Why did somebody just pay 400,000 for a JPEG of a rhinoceros with flames up? It’s so confusing! The last time it was this confusing was 1995, 96, 97 when you had to tell 20, 30, 40-year-olds, “No, there’s a thing called the internet,” and like, “What are you talking about?” Like, “No, no, you talk to people on AOL chat.” People were confused.
And you guys are young, so you're very young—like, it's been a long—a good long time. Twenty-five years since something came along, which is the blockchain. Now, obviously it's been around—right? Bitcoin's been around, you know, Ethereum's been around—but now it's consumerized, meaning it’s—everyone's aware of it. Like, a lot of people have heard the term NFT; they don’t know what it is. They think—a lot of people think it’s a scam or this and that—but like everybody thought the internet was a fad. Like, everybody listening right now on the other device that you’re attached to, just Google “the internet is a fad” and read unlimited articles by The Wall Street Journal, by professors, by real legit people saying, “No, no, this is gonna be gone in two years.”
And that’s what you’re hearing right now about NFTs: “Like, this is money laundering. This is a fad.” And like, granted, I personally—and I put out this content every day—believe 98 percent of the projects right now are going to zero.
I agree.
Yeah, just like the internet stocks of ‘99. But the overall concept of NFTs and what it represents will affect every person listening and watching for the rest of our lives.
So if anybody doesn’t know, because I'm honestly in this boat, I'm an idiot with this—what the heck is an NFT? And I'm dumb. Sorry, my bad.
What is an NFT? It stands for non-fungible token. I believe the word can change; we used to call social media Web 2.0. Like it could change, so don’t even get caught up on it, but that’s the term. What does it actually mean? It means that you can absolutely show and verify that you own something digitally. You own it! That’s a brain mess for the crew here, for me when I first got it, and for everyone listening, because we weren’t used to it.
But what was a brain mess for everybody in 1999 was the idea of people dating online. Everybody thought that was weird. That was like a 500-pound dude in his mom’s basement. Now everybody does it; it’s DM and swipe left—it’s all that.
So what’s funny for me is watching a lot of 28 to 50-year-olds really struggle and rubbish on this, and they don’t realize they became their mom. Like, you used to make fun of your parents for not wanting to put a credit card into the computer. Now you are that by rubbish on NFTs! “What are these apes? What are they?”
Let me finish one point!
Let me go to a one more 101 place. When people say, “Well, I can just right-click and save. It’s a JPEG.” Meanwhile, the amount of people that take photos in fake private planes and fake watches and fake Lambos—it's easier to fake in the real world than it is in the blockchain.
If Bob took a right click and saved the board ape and put it on his profile like, “Yo, here I am! I’m in the game!” in eight seconds I can go to the blockchain and see if he actually owns it. You can fake it more in the real world than you can on the blockchain! People don’t understand wearing a fake chain or some stuff—like anyone can do that. Because what he’s saying is like, “Yeah, if there’s a fake chain, you got to take it to a jeweler. He’s got to bring out the magnifying glass, take a look at it.”
You know, but let me say this: I’m incredibly empathetic to anybody who’s listening who’s like, “This is stupid!” and I’m cool with that. That’s why I wanted to do this too. It’s cool because we have a lot of those people. And here’s the best part: I could be 100 percent wrong. I’m just ready to talk to everybody who’s listening and watching in 2037, and we’ll see what’s up. Like, it’s—and me with that statement, I’m willing to take my loss, but I don’t think I will.
Where does it—where does it like become like a scam though? Where does it become—where there was a—on OpenSea, which is one of the biggest marketplaces where you’re buying some day of NFTs right now, it’s the eBay of NFTs. And there was over a billion dollars in transactions last month! You know, but what’s crazy is there’s less than two million wallets on there. There was a billion dollars in transactions in the last four and a half days on OpenSea. There was a billion last month because people were tax harvesting. So there was less action.
As soon as we flipped the new year, the first six days of January, there’s been a billion with less than two million people on OpenSea. When I first saw it, I kind of thought it was stupid too. But then when I realized, like what you said—like, 98 percent of the projects are gonna go to zero—that's when I really like started to understand. And like when you see those two percent of projects that actually are going to do something, that’s when I really started to understand the value of it.
So I think that’s right where it’s like, “Okay, wait a minute!” My instincts for people watching—and by the way, I saw this in 2017 with CryptoKitties. I was like, “This is insane! Owning—like, it broke my brain.” And I left it. I was like, “Nah! Like, I just don’t—I don’t have time for this right now. This is too crazy; I don’t understand.”
But when I really did a ton of homework on CryptoPunks in late 2020, going into last year in 2021, what happened since ‘17 was I know that every kid that’s 10 is willing to spend every dollar of their parents on a skin on Fortnite to flex digitally, not physically.
I know why this is a very cool room right now. If you look around what people are wearing, what hat, what haircut they have, it’s all just communication, right? And so everyone’s just communicating through their clothes, through what—they buy!
Like all we—the biggest form of communication that humans do is buy stuff! Whether it’s a home, a car, a meal, or clothes! It’s the biggest form. More than your words, more than what you write. It is what you buy!
And as this goes digital, it’s the biggest market of them all. And once everybody understands that, this is going to eat up the world!
And what it actually means—or, more importantly, when you say “Why would somebody want to own something digital?” Well, why the heck do you want a blue check mark on Instagram?
Yeah, validation.
Why? Why do you want a million followers on TikTok? That’s digital—you want social currency. It’s the human race; it’s how we live!
But I’m still like really dumb at this!
So, Gary, what makes it good?
You’re dumb because you need to put 10 hours of work on Google search and YouTube videos and actually put in the work instead of just reading the headlines.
I know because I look at it like, I’m really gonna speak like a guy who really doesn’t know anything because I don’t. I shouldn’t even be in this podcast right now because I don’t know anything. But, like, for instance, John, what is this like ape thing you bought with the eyeballs or whatever it is? Like what is that even? How do you acquire?
Well, I mean that’s—that’s another NFT, right?
Like, you know, and I think that’s going back to one of the reasons why we have Gary here is I’ll get to that in a sec. Yeah, and I’ll tell you why and what it is, but I think the biggest thing, Gary, is why Kyle and I really wanted to talk to you is we have a very loyal fan base.
We haven’t launched anything yet, you know? We haven’t launched anything yet because we’re very mindful of when we launch—like, when do they get? Other than the flex! You know? You know what more can we do? How—if someone goes and spends their hard-earned money, whatever it is—thousand bucks, ten thousand bucks, whatever it becomes—whatever it is—what do they really get other than the flex?
I mean, Bob, back to just to pick it up—like back to what you were saying about like, “I don’t get it,” like my response is real; it’s the homework! Like you’re gonna have to put in the homework! Like it’s too new and complex, which is why everyone thinks it’s a scam—which is why everybody thought the internet was a fad!
This is like some Pew—they’re like going to the moon things! Then here’s a little interesting thing to John’s point: there’s a digital image that could be known as a collectible—a Jackson Pollock sells for 100 million dollars 50 years ago. Seventy years ago people thought that was just splashing paint in the Hamptons—when the Hamptons wasn’t the Hamptons, out freaking New York and worth nothing!
So yes, there’s the collectibility. The big thing with NFTs is there’s a contract attached to the image—the smart contract, verifiable by no server, by a third party—that’s the punchline! What you put in that contract is what’s interesting!
So for example, with VeeFriends, I knew I was launching it super early. I knew that I wanted to finally build my WWF—because I’ll always call it that instead of WWE—my Pokemon, my Disney, and that I wanted to spend the next 40 years building these characters: Empathy Elephant, Patient Panda, Right Flexing Fox! That I was gonna do this—that I wanted that creative IP! I was gonna build my Transformers!
But because I knew it was so new, I decided to put in the contract that it’s also a ticket to three years of VCon, which is like a South by Southwest, Davos. It’s going to be at U.S. Bank Stadium in Minnesota May 19th to 22nd—ridiculous lineup of speakers, right?
And so I knew that I could create some upfront value that would let my audience be patient while I developed the IP and NFTs develop so they understood what they were actually getting.
So when you say, “Hey, we got a crazy audience,” which everyone’s aware of—what are they gonna get besides the flex? Hey, let’s not demoralize the flex! Many people—we don’t razz on Kith or Palace or Fear of God that they’re delivering you a hoodie for a buck fifty that delivers the flex.
We actually think that’s phenomenal, and I do! It’s how communities are built! So there’s like—that doesn’t need to be demonized! Now if that—if whatever imagery you guys come up with also gives you access to this virtually, access to that physically—your annual Super Bowl party, the only way you get in is with the token—a big thing in Toronto once a year is an homage to how it—like one day eventually!
What about one percent royalty? What about if an NFT represented one percent royalty of this?
So one question with that though. I feel like it’s, Bob, it’s also—it's like a—is it, Gary, like a modern-day club membership in a way?
It can be, you know? It can be very directly! Like I said, for example, full disclosure, I’m thinking about buying real estate—even maybe an island where holders can have access to. We’ve seen Soho House; we’re in New York City. Zero Bond is phenomenal!
Like sure, it can be a physical membership. And then there’s the subconscious human membership! These Nikes, that N.Y.P.D. hat—what happened? Like when you walk in the airport and you see somebody have a hoodie or sneakers that you mess with and you know that many people don't know—you immediately feel family!
Or what we’ve always done: when I see somebody walking in New York City wearing a Jets hat, that person’s my family! I get that all the time!
We’ve been tribal from the get! This is now a way for verified digital tribalness in perpetuity.
But what's even more interesting for the issuers of the NFTs is there’s a royalty contract, similar to publishing music or books, that creates economics that we have not seen before! When somebody resells a VeeFriend, I get a royalty! Those become profound economics, which is why The Weeknd has a 60 million dollar home! If you hit in royalty land—there's real money!
So every time someone buys and sells Gary’s NFT, he’s gonna make—he gets ten percent!
Understand why that’s a big deal? When Fleer sold the Michael Jordan cards, they got like eight cents! When I sell one right now for six hundred thousand dollars, that doesn’t go back to Fleer! In NFT land, in the next hundred years, it will!
Do you get all that ten percent, or do you put some into like a community wallet?
I went with all my ten because I’m taking those dollars like a business and reinvesting them in—yeah, I need to make the conference!
Yeah, correct! VCon is costing me a fortune every year for three years! But I also need to launch a TV show, children’s books, apparel line—like I need to buy slotting fees at Walmart for my stuff!
Then like I’m trying to run a billion-dollar company! So I need those royalties! Other people have shared the royalties; other people have said the community owns it! Look at Board Ape, the most famous one—they don’t own it—the community owns it!
So now people are going to monetize their apes—they get all 10 to the community! No, they have the commercial rights! The person that owns the board has the commercial rights; Board Ape still gets a royalty!
So back to the fundamentals—say I’m a guy who owns nothing, yes?
Because I’ll be honest; I guarantee that 95 percent of the people watching right now have no idea—and you preached on what? How many hours?
Listen, I’ve put in 50 hours, which is intense!
But I think the impact is so big that it’s worth the conversation! Like I think every—first of all, knowing the DNA of the person that watches this show, there’s a lot of ambition, and adrenaline, and alphaness!
And so like I think it’s worth your—I can tell you this: you’re way better off spending 50 hours educating yourself on the internet—let me finish this point, Bob, I apologize—you’re way better spending 50 hours doing your homework on Twitter, YouTube, and Discord on NFTs than any supposed thing going on in college!
Yeah, but what is step one though? So say you have to put in those 50. What I did in January was what?
Enter—enter on Google.
That’s right!
Okay, and by the way, watch both—try to watch both versions! Go into something called Twitter.com—you know it! Yep!
And type in hashtag NFT and just read it—you gotta start from the dirt and you just read and listen—read and listen!
I can’t read for [expletive], so I watched a lot of YouTube videos and listened to podcasts.
Bob, you’re a great reader, right?
So you have—so you say you have $500 in your bank account; you want to get into the NFT space, you know, and you don’t know what the [expletive] to do. You got to want to commit 50 hours of [expletive] work! And however you say you want to or you don’t want to!
Saying there’s a kid who’s watching this right now who doesn’t want to or does who wants to—good! That’s good! Who’s interested in [expletive] doing this?
He has nothing to his name—yep! He has $500 in his bank account, and he wants to get into the NFT space. He’s committed 50 hours to this [expletive] world that you’re saying of learning—and then what I would do if I’m that kid is once I’ve got 50 hours in the bag, I would ask a successful project to be a moderator in their Discord and let them pay me in ETH or Solana to do that!
Yeah, right now, NFTs are expensive—way too expensive for $500 buck land!
You know where my brain immediately goes? To go garage selling with that $500 bucks and turn it into $5,000 in six months and then go shopping!
But if we’re playing just in this narrow place, spend the 50 hours! Now you got your [expletive] a little bit tighter and go find a top project in ETH or Solana or Magic—some of these chains, these are blockchains—and say to say to Alien Friends!
F R E N S, right now which is doing well—hit up the founder on Twitter or you tweet them or you tweet their account and say, “Hey, I want to work as a moderator on your Discord for free and/or to get paid because then you can start building your bag."
Because $500 is very hard right now! Unfortunately, it will come down, right? But that’s where we’re at.
So you’re saying this is a space that only the big players can play in?
No, no, I’m not saying that. I’m saying that there’s a lot of people that spent $700 on a Board Ape that just sold it for $400,000, and that’s [expletive] insane! I’m also saying that’s rare and far and few in between, and I think people lack patience!
Everything’s now, now, now culture! And why not have some patience and [expletive] get some dirt under your fingers for a year?
And instead of trying to invest $500 because you’re gonna make $4,000—which means 99 percent of the time you’re gonna lose—why don’t you eat some [expletive] for a year, build up your bag a little bit more, and then maybe in nine or twelve months have $5,000 and a [expletive] load more education to go and do something smart?
Everybody just wants [expletive] right this [expletive] second, right, Bob?
Yeah, I know! What fascinates me is like kind of the opposite! It’s not the smaller people, but what people like us and even you and anyone else can do as a platform—which we can—all do in the NFT space!
And that’s something I’ve become fascinated with! And what I like about what John said is what most people are about to do in 2022 in the NFT space is make a lot of short-term money and [expletive] up their reputation!
That’s what we would never do because, I mean, the amount of offers we’ve got to even promote an NFT project or—I mean, I feel like what everyone’s doing right now is like choose an animal and like make it look like it’s on Mali or some [expletive] and then sell 10,000 of them—that's right and make $10 million, which we could literally do tomorrow!
Of course you could—but then literally I’m one of those guys that would be—it! And we didn’t live—one of those guys!
But one of the things—and this is one of the reasons I really want to talk to Gary—is like, “No, I’m not just saying this because you’re here! But I’m a holder of VeeFriends, and I got VeeFriends when I started! I wanted to be closer to you!”
Right! I know I could text you anytime, but I wanted—like, I just know you do a lot to inspire and motivate people, and I was like, “You know, I want to be one step closer!”
And then when you started talking about doing the conference and some of these other physical stuff, I was like, “Wait a minute! He’s not gonna have a conference, and I can’t go!”
And I’m not gonna text you like, “Hey, sorry I never got one, but can you let me in?” I wanted to be further connected with you, with Gary, and I think that’s what every project should be doing!
Whether it’s a project, we can maybe have access to his conference—I want to go to his conference! I think it’s gonna be cool! I don’t want to sit back and watch clips on YouTube about it! I want to be there!
You know, it’s really hard! You know, you know Apple—for context, I’m sorry, John—the fifty+ percent of the VeeFriends sold at $2,000, okay? That’s a three-year conference!
So that amortizes out to like less than $700 for a four-day conference! Right now, the people that believed in me at the time—now the cheapest VeeFriend is $40,000! So they’ve 20Xed their money at least, and they can decide what they're gonna do.
But it was very important to me that—that’s why I kind of front-loaded the value! My project's very unique; most people are just like, “Here’s the image, call it a day, let’s be a community!”
I wanted to give the real-life access that a smart contract can do! I’m actually surprised that a lot more people haven’t gone there, but I’m not surprised, what John knows because we knew each other from early Vine and Web 2 days, is people come and go!
People come and go because most people want the short bag! That’s it! They want the seven million in two years, buy a house, and chill! I want the process!
I want to go for it all! If you go for it all, you’re leaving money on the table every day of your life.
The thoughtfulness of what you’re going to do to the audience matters and on this one, it’s on the blockchain forever! So if you guys do a project and you launch, and you make 13 million on the launch, right? And then royalties, but then you abandon it, you just do something else—your life changed, you do—so you decide—which I don’t think you’ll do, based on what I’ve watched—but if you did or anybody else, well, somebody’s gonna tweet or Instagram or TikTok, whatever the platform of the day in seven years, be like, “Man, that was [expletive] up what those people did!”
Look at this person! The Beanie Baby transactions are lost. The person that paid [expletive] a hundred thousand for Princess Diana lost Beanie Babies couldn’t do anything about that; there was no blockchain! They couldn’t make it right for him who spent a hundred thousand on a Princess Diana Beanie because there was no blockchain!
But you can, because it sits on the blockchain, and you can do something about it! I don’t think people realize what’s happening here!
The people that do a project make a ton of money and then think they’re just gonna run away and say, “Sorry, the market is the market,” have a problem! Because with the blockchain, they can still bring value to the token holder!
In 13 years, I can say, “If you own a VeeFriend, you are now my business partner in this new company!” I could!
And I don’t think people have wrapped their head around that yet!
Is that gonna be illegal? Because one thing that I was telling John that I think is so cool and that we could be so unique in the space is how, like you said, we can give a percentage of our ventures—we need to give it back to holders! But is that gonna turn into like a security?
Yeah, so we have to wait for a lot of things, just like we had to wait on the internet, right? Again, a lot of kids in this room, there was insanity, emotion in 2006 about YouTube pirating content, this and that—like, “Oh my God, SNL clips on YouTube? This is great!”
People were like, remember the FBI thing in the VHS? Like, it's one of the reasons why—I remember when I would copy WrestleMania, I was like, “I know that somebody's gonna knock on my door and [expletive] arrest me.” Like, you know—so there’s still a lot to be figured out!
Yeah, but adding it to the community wallet is safe, right? Like let’s say we said, “Yeah, I want to give X percentage of our merch sales and put it into our community wallet. Let the community decide what we spend that on?”
I think that’s so [expletive] cool!
Like, it’s insane! DAOs, decentralized autonomous organizations, are something everyone’s gonna be hearing about a lot!
Yes! You’re gonna love this! I would love for the VeeFriends holders of today to be my business partners in everything I do the rest of my life, right?
Today, it’s unclear if I can do that. In six years, the laws could be clarified and they’ll say, “You can!” I—the next day can come out, and then that’s what’s cool about the blockchain!
I can verify that you have it; you connect, you prove it, you sign the contract, and you’re now in the thing! That’s amazing! You can retroactively in perpetuity. That’s a big [expletive] deal that we’ve never been able to do in life!
So, your holders are gonna buy the Jets with you?
It’s on my docket! You’re still there, right?
Yeah, let’s go!
I know that I’m more convinced than ever that I’ve got a shot! But for me, it’s the thrill of the hunt! Of course, the thought of like, can I strategize my way over the next 20 years to pull off this [expletive]?
Inspiration for 11-12 years, it’s always been, “I got to buy the Jets!” But it's always been, “I’ve got to try to.”
Yeah, right? Like when Johnny Thompson or Susan McGee buys them in 15 years and everybody shits on me like, “[Expletive] you, Gary, you didn’t do it!” I’m not gonna be devastated! To me, the real love is the try!
Of course I’d love to; it’d be insane if I pull it off! I even think there’s a movie in mine after I’m gone! But if I don’t, like, look, somebody did it better! They outflanked me! I didn’t pull it off, and I can eat that humility!
So that’s your—
I mean, it was probably plenty, but what’s the big—
Gary, the end goal—
The real end goal is to actually, to be very frank, recognize that I have the ability to have nuanced conversations at scale. Let me explain what I mean by that.
You’ve already done that!
Yeah, but like, I—for example, business. I think people don’t realize that businesses, like sports for example, let’s use somebody you love and I hate: Tom Brady!
Right? Jets, Tampa, a couple weeks ago, he’s freaking out on the field, pissed! He’s won seven trillion Super Bowls! It’s a random game against the Jets, and like he’s not happy that they didn’t push up the clock, and he wants to like fight!
And I watch that because I hate him so much, and I’m like, “I so get that!” Because that’s—I have that in me! It’s not about anything other than the [expletive] game! You’re in it for the [expletive] game!
Right? But then the game’s over! And what does he do? He goes out of his way to go up to Zach Wilson and says, “You played a nice game.”
Like, you can clap it up! You can talk to your homies about charity events and how’s your wife and how—right?
In business, we don’t realize that you can try to beat everybody! I want to be better than anything you ever do! Facts! Anything that you three ever do, I want everything that I do to be better!
But it doesn’t mean that your winning comes at my expense! Nor does it not mean that I can’t give you roses when you’re dominating!
In the business world, people don’t treat it that way! Like if somebody does a podcast format similar to this, it’s all of a sudden like, “[Expletive] that!”
In business, everyone thinks it’s that! And I just don’t see it! And so like some of the nuances—I want to create a legacy around business that’s slightly different! To me, that’s more interesting!
How many people show up to my funeral because I did it right versus did I buy the [expletive] Jets? Nobody gives a [expletive]! Nobody gives a [expletive]! Rich [expletive] or people that have done crazy things die, and we’re like, “Cool!”
And it's like, but if you [expletive] leave a positive impact—yeah! Like that’s [expletive] cool!
How rich are you?
Very!
How much money you made in the space that we’re talking about right now?
Oh yeah! I didn’t—I see all those posts going around; I see $90 million; I see—yeah! By the way, don’t be misled! My Google net worth is $86 million, and I will say this: let’s just say it's far, far off!
You know what’s crazy about that 90 million and 90 days thing? I literally in the video say, “It generated $50 million in primary sales. There’s been $41 million in secondary, which I get10 percent of, which means it’s $54 million!”
Like, right? But I also carry a multi-million dollar payroll! ETH goes up and down! Like there’s costs! Like I’m running a—I didn’t make it; the company of VeeFriends made the $54!
You pay 27 in taxes; you have expenses! VCon is gonna cost me [expletive] five, seven, ten—like a year!
Like people are just so [expletive]—everybody wants to read a headline and be like—
“Did you see Gary 90 million?”
I’m like, “Are you a [expletive] idiot? Do you have a business bone in your body? Do you understand how [expletive] actually works?”
They’re like, “So now, when I say, ‘Gary, the average income in the U.S. is 54,000, 55,000,’ the top one percent of earners in America make 450,000 a year and above!”
If you make 450,000 dollars a year in America, you are very, very, very wealthy!
We don’t even begin to think somebody’s got anything going on if they don’t make a million a year! And a million a year in all the craziness now feels like nothing, right?
I think we have the conversation super wrong! And then there’s a whole other convo: do you have any miserable [expletive] I know that make four million a year and hate their life and everything sucks [expletive]?
And do you know how many people that make a buck thirty or sixty that I know that love life?
Like we have a complete [expletive] up convo of what success looks like!
Right? It’s all—and it’s all just true! You know, you can get [expletive] is this too?
Because you know, and on social media, all these people are portraying these different lives of jets and [expletive]?
But the big question is like, why do you care if somebody else is on a private [expletive]?
I don’t! But I don’t!
But at the same time, there are people that are just—that’s the way society’s adapted to! I understand!
Which is why we need to have important conversations around self-esteem and FOMO and all this other [expletive]. Like if your happiness is predicated on if people think you’re awesome or—that’s not—you’re going to be in trouble! You’re vulnerable to outside affirmation, which is the quickest way to get into a [expletive] spot!
So what is your advice? Where do you spend your money? Like in a sense of where you maybe shouldn’t?
Like for instance, Steve, their partner, gold chains and all this [expletive]. Whatever! Where do you spend your money maybe where you shouldn’t?
Convenience!
Yeah, right! Like anything that saves me time! Right? Like I don’t want to do anything!
Like other than what I want to do!
So anything that—like I have multiple assistants, drivers—like all that’s—and so that’s one place! This is ridiculous—something happened when I was ten that really was a tale for me! On my tenth birthday, my grandma took me to Toys “R” Us, and they had Cabbage Patch Kids—which were impossible to get! So I took my birthday money and bought my sister a Cabbage Patch because she was with me!
I don’t like stuff!
And I never—I don’t like stuff! I like experiences! I will overspend on vacations like crazy, like crazy food! Right? Like I’ll be ridiculous with that kind of [expletive]!
But I don’t like stuff! Cars! Like I’m not a stuff guy! I’m also—I’m saving! Like I’m trying to do some [expletive] out here! You know, I’m 46 years old; I’m young!
This is another thing with your audience: like man, if I could just get these [expletive] at 25 to understand they haven’t even started!
Yeah! Like can you imagine? Now with how you and your brother were on fire 11 years ago, if I told you in 11 or 12 years you’d still be young as [expletive] and you haven’t even started? You wouldn’t have believed me!
Younger than ever!
Right? Yeah, I just wish people slowed down or paid—I was 28 years old sleeping in the car!
That’s right!
Yeah, like you’re still starting! I mean, 34!
You’re still starting!
Shut the [expletive] up! How old are you?
Twenty-seven.
Yeah, that makes me want to punch my [expletive] face! Like, that's the best!
But he’s seeing like then I feel like too sometimes, you know?
Yeah, I never feel old!
I don’t think people have it figured out! I think that people are impatient because they want to look like they’re successful to other people!
When you’re in your own [expletive] cocoon doing your own [expletive]! By the way, you know what else that does? It keeps you grounded!
When people say you're the best, one of the great things about doing this, living in your own [expletive] cocoon, is it's not just about hearing the hate and being okay with it—there's a sneakier one!
It’s not believing the hype! All those little goat emojis and you’re the best and all the hearts and you’re [expletive]! When you don’t hear that either, when you appreciate it but you don’t believe it, it keeps you grounded and not being a dick face!
It was crazy because we talked about how in the early, like literally in the early days with you, like when I literally had like nine people following me—nine! Like literally nobody!
Gary was a guy who was like in my DMs right away—
Whatever you want to say it was blah blah!
Are you engaging with people or hitting up every day?
Are you like—
So what makes you respond to a DM?
Two things!
One, I need to stay in the dirt to know what the [expletive] is going on!
And the second: I go into the clouds and the penthouse—I’m finished!
So selfish! I need to know what the [expletive] is going on! The pulse at every second!
Yeah. But I’m saying if a kid did—like if I ran up—like does—say there’s a thousand people that DM you based on watching this podcast right out of the full audience—what’s going to make them completely random?
You look at yourself at the right time!
Yeah! Completely right! What motivates you to get a response?
Two things: either A, in the dirt, to know the pulse of culture—whether it's emerging, gamer, hip-hop artist, like anything—anything else!
So they have to offer value to you?
Nope! Nope! That’s—you’re—I’m telling you why I’m in there.
Okay. That’s one number—like their engagement—that’s something I do!
I mean, if I get a DM and I’m looking at—and then I check someone's profile, I’m like, “Oh, this one—I kind of watch what they’re doing,” and I’m gonna learn!
But I’m literally—
Gary, what’s this person doing on stage?
Like, I hit Gary up when I had this, and like he was just—
I think, Gary, because I’m very similar with your—I think he looks at what’s interesting too, right? Someone could DM me and have 37 followers, and this actually happened! Low amount of followers, but started saying, “Hey, John! I know you’re into collectibles! Have you looked into VHS tapes yet?”
I was like, “What?!”
And I started looking at it! Then I went down this rabbit hole—started seeing Gary was talking about it, and then I got obsessed with VHS tape collectibles, which is a thing, by the way!
I know your mind’s like this right now, like—but I went and bought Pulp Fiction, Top Gun, Karate Kid—all sealed!
I send them in to get graded!
It’s worth a lot—it’s crazy!
A lot! How about the Disney movies?
Less! If you go on eBay, but—
But now they grade everything, right? Just like cards, toys, and now video games are [expletive] huge! Grading them!
In what kind of condition?
I want to get back to VHS because it’s wild!
I want to finish your one other part because I know I’m at the part of my career right now that if I take 13 seconds, it might mean something!
Exactly!
It’s [expletive] incredible! Which is amazing! I don’t even know how to make a little feel-good thing, right? Which is almost like—it’s insane!
It’s almost a feel-good thing too! It’s a [expletive] real thing, bro!
Like how the [expletive]—like literally some kid and some of this—like you guys all get it! Some of the [expletive] is heart-wrenching!
Yeah!
“My Dad punched me in the [expletive] face tonight!”
Like, how are you not compelled to be like, “Yo!”
Like, and some of the [expletive] you don’t even know! Like if you're—you can hit right—some of the stuff melts me! Because I’m like, “I don’t know if I’m capable of this! This is above my skis!”
Right? But the main reason is, 80—I’ll give you the number—I know what’s in my soul! Eighty percent!
Because if I know I reply to some kid on a high school wrestling team, I’m like, “Yo! Keep going!” that he’s gonna lose his mind, go into school and be like “Yeah!”
And that’s like nice! I wish I had this when I was a kid and I could have done that!
And Macho Man Randy Savage could have been like “Oh yeah!” and I would have lost my [expletive] mind!
Right? Eighty percent, twenty!
Because I want to know what’s going on, and I never—you know, it’s like kind of like hip-hop, right? There are certain rappers that get enormous, and then the streets don’t [expletive] with them because they don’t [expletive] with the streets!
I feel like that’s one of Drake’s keys to success.
Correct! He’s all—he does is just collab with the hottest rappers because he’s humble! Yeah!
And hungry! He’s in his [expletive] other people’s win; he’s blowing up so many rappers!
Of course! Little Baby, 21 Savage—they’re obviously popping before, but gives him that first feature! He’s doing it right!
You watch guys like him and others, right? He’s a genius!
You understand!
Well, once you're at the top of the people, right?
I kind of like learned that from Drake, honestly, man!
Like watching what he did and just applying it to like a different—some YouTuber reached out to you; it’s like I have 9 million subs and 20 million on IG!
Like, okay, whatever! But someone’s—when you see someone small and talented too, it’s the best!
That’s the best thing!
It’s very hard to find though because you do follow!
But it all depends on what gobbling up early, and life is like! I’m gonna sign this person, make 20% of their bag for me!
It’s when you say what you just said on this podcast that means the world to me!
Well, I know my history with him! I know my history with you! That’s what you’re saying about me behind my back, not in front of everybody!
What people are saying about you behind the back that actually know you—that’s what matters!
When some kid’s like, “Gary Vee, your [expletive] face!” if we’ve never interacted, I’m like, “I understand why you might think that; I might be too much! I might have [expletive] on the Patriots, and you like the Patriots! You might think NFTs are a scam!”
Like I have empathy to why you think that! If you and John said that, I’m a piece of [expletive]? I’m dead!
I’m like, “You guys know me! If you did—” I could—you know, that would hurt because I think I’ve watched you from before!
I’m like, “[Expletive] why does he think that?”
But it wouldn’t kill me. I’m like, “We don’t know each other.” You guys know the [expletive] that nobody knows! Every single interaction of every single thing.
And I’m always putting karma points on the board! I’m not looking to wrap somebody up! You know this; you were in that moment!
At the time, I was like, “Oh!” But like, yeah, I’m here for—why am I [expletive] good enough to get mine?
I don’t need a piece of anybody else!
100%!
You got me through a lot of [expletive]. By the way, so you’re a good dude with that?
That’s the same with us too! It’s like, it’s kind of different because we like real [expletive]. This guy’s real [expletive]!
We’ll get to that real [expletive]!
Real [expletive]!
We’re not gonna get to that—yes! I’ve been asking for a Bob memory episode!
No, no! I want to know what kind of [expletive] Bob got into; Gary had to help me!
We’re all good; I always just at the other day—there are certain people that I do reach out to, and I consider the mentors, and I consider them good friends that if [expletive] is going on, Gary’s one of 100 who, like I said, when there was nothing on the line early on, he was a dear friend of mine!
And so respect that, Gary!
Do you realize how controversial that was?
Like, you've got—
I do.
How did you become such a good speaker? When did you realize that you were like such a good speaker?
The first speech I ever gave, I was so [expletive]! Like some dude emailed me, he’s like, “Would you like to speak at a marketing conference in Florida?” I was doing the wine [expletive].
I don’t know if you know my background. 2006, I’m like, “That’s kind of cool!”
I’m like, “Yeah, I am!” I knew I was a marketer! I thought it was really cool that because I knew that eventually I would get to that part.
But I was in the wine game at this point. So that’s cool; it felt right. Right?
I never thought of it! I didn’t really know the game, then he writes, and he goes, “Can we get on a phone and talk about your fee?” And I was like, “Oh, [expletive]! I’m gonna get paid!”
I was like pumped!
So I get on the phone, and he goes, “We’ll pay you $5,000.” I lost my mind! I was like, “This is enormous to talk!”
So I went! I’m sitting in the back room; people are talking, I’m like—they’re not—like I’m kind of getting this sense of like, “I’m not sure that person’s very good.”
Like I had no idea what I was doing! No presentation! I got these— in essence school for a reason!
I literally didn’t even know what the [expletive] I was going to talk about! I was like, “I’m just gonna go talk about what I know!” At that point, Twitter was just about happening! So I’m like, “I’m gonna talk about Twitter!”
I went and, bro, [expletive] felt like I was home from day one! First speech—[expletive] tore the place down! Everybody rushed the stage!
I stayed for like four hours talking to everybody! I thought it was the greatest thing ever!
And a medium like, “Oh [expletive], this is something I’m good at!” That I had no idea! And I was 34 years old, which again, to tie it into this audience, for all the 22-year-olds, 19-year-olds, I was 34 when I found something randomly that I was really good at that I would never have thought of prior to a cold email!
So it was 34! And I loved it! And when I looked back at my style, back to Macho Man or all the stand-up comedy I watched, I realized—I was like, “Oh, my style was affected by what I thought was cool!”
But I was talking business [expletive]!
That’s cool!
Are you ever worried about—are you ever worried—because you’re obsessed, obviously, with just like you just said the public speaking thing and all that! You do a [expletive] ton of [expletive]!
It’s like—it’s like a Hollywood actor who does too many movies!
Right! You do everything! You do every podcast, show—
That’s what I notice about you!
Right!
And the one thing about—oh, Gary Vee does everything!
Why is it that you do everything? You’re not like—you’re not, you know, specific on picking certain things that make sense?
Well, they make sense to me! You just do—you do everything! You do every podcast, show, you do everything!
Yes!
Like, yeah!
But like, at this point, in my career, 80 percent of the people that I’m on, I know!
Yeah!
The 20 percent, if the other 20, I’m on for the same reason I replied to a kid!
I’m like, “I like this kid!”
I like her! And if I go on her show, she’s gonna leverage my name to get bigger guests! I’m willing to allocate 30 minutes of my time—that’s very valuable—to put them on so they can leverage my name to get bigger!
Because I think they got—you know?
Yeah!
That’s what I do!
And that’s what’s wrong! That’s a bigger question!
Can you believe how much time has passed?
Is anybody gonna drop a bomb when I say—
I gotta go!
All right, do you want to wrap it up or what?
What the [expletive]!
Listen, I love you guys! Take care!
Thanks, Gary! [Music]