Transcription
Tony, let me, uh, transition into this topic. I'm curious to know what you'll say about this.
So, you know, I've been in sales for 25 years and I've recruited salespeople for 25 years. At first, you're kind of like, "Oh my God, we're gonna help you. You're going to become this. I believe in you." And then you're like, "Oh my God, this is ridiculous. I can't save this guy. I can't save that guy."
Then you start to look for patterns in individuals. Okay, he's got the right attitude; she played sports, is used to challenging situations, is used to hard work, and came from a team environment.
Then you look for certain patterns and you'll start seeing certain people. Do you think some people are, and this could be just politically or personality-wise, do you think some people who are math people and logical are conservative? Do you think people that are born more with creative, right-brain tendencies are liberal?
And then maybe even some of the zodiac signs—I'm curious to know what you'll say about that. Are there certain people where you'll see patterns that say, "That guy is independent; he knows how to entertain both ideas and then say, 'Here's what I think we need to be doing?'"
So, in terms of negative and positive, are there people that you believe are born negative or positive? Is there such a thing as a "crap magnet," somebody that just can't help themselves and can't be saved? Do you believe in that?
No? Okay. I think we have a nature that we're born with, and I look at lots of different patterns to understand what makes somebody tick—not just one.
I use Chinese medicine as one way to notice if this person is more water or more wood. Each of those qualities means you're kind of born with certain things. If you're wood-driven, as an example in Chinese medicine, you're a pioneer. You're driven; you push. This would be a very strong one for you, for example.
That wood person has got to grow. They face challenges with more intensity. Every one of these types, also under stress or in a negative state, can have their positives become negatives. Those people can get angry very easily if things don't move forward.
Steve Jobs would be a perfect example of that, right? If you know Steve Jobs, he was brutal, but he was committed to the outcome—whatever it takes.
If you get around somebody who's fire-driven, this is someone who's born where they're always joking. They're super optimistic; everything's funny. Some people are irritated by them because they're cracking jokes when they're talking about something serious, right?
But fires burn; they have this tremendous energy. However, fires also burn out very quickly. One of the things they have physiologically, because Chinese medicine treats everyone differently based on your constitution, is that if they don't eat, they get hangry.
My wife is a fire, by the way, and I've got very strong wood and a lot of strong fire. So she has got this tremendous energy and excitement, but we don't go anywhere without food. You know what's going to happen, right? The sweetest person on Earth is going to become crazy.
If you're somebody more Earth, you're more the person who's less extroverted. You're the peacekeeper. What you care about is everybody getting along; you care about harmony and community. My second strongest is actually Earth because that's how I build communities. That's what I do; that's why I care as deeply as I do.
Then there are some people that are metals. By the way, these are based on the seasons. They just look at fall in two levels: the beginning of fall is Earth, and the end is metals. Metals are someone who is very precise; everything has to be a very specific way. They're very elegant in their delivery. They think things through very specifically, and the challenge for them is that if it doesn't go exactly that way, they can get very frustrated and have a lot of grief in them.
Then there's water. Water is like the philosopher—the person that loses themselves in things and goes off. By the way, we have all these qualities, but which one's strongest in you? The water person wants to know the truth, and they think it through. They lose themselves in thought.
Just as an example, understanding those types—that's one typology I use. I have dozens, right? That helps me know that, okay, in my life, my wife's fire. I know that this is my fire; she's going to burn this way. I don't get upset by it. I don't think she should be like me.
If I have a son, which I do, that's more Earth, he's not going to be as driven as me. I used to think he had to have the same drive. Jerich is unbelievable; he's got a heart of gold, and he works hard. He does a great job; he's an unbelievable coach. You can say he's a sweet guy. He's sweet; he's got more Earth, right?
He can fire off his wood, but it feels a little unnatural for him. And then, you know, I can look at my other son who is fire. He's always cracking up. Each of my kids is different as well.
I've got, in my life, you know, my wife couldn't carry, so we have a woman who has been with us for 12 years—a dear, dear friend who traveled with us everywhere. Her name is Mary, and Mary's part of our family. She carried our latest child because my wife couldn't carry.
So we're a family. We didn't send her away. Yes, she's our surrogate, but we kept her. We even made her the V die if s guys that she also—she's the person who ends up with our child. That's how deep it is.
But she's very much a water person. Mary is. So, like, if we want to go to a movie and I'm going to a movie to escape, I want to go take off. "Here's the time of the movie. Let's go!"
And then I'm like, "Where's Mary?" She got caught up in something. She and I used to get frustrated about it. Now I anticipate it. Mary's going to get lost, so I'm going to let her know it's 15 minutes earlier. I'm going to go find those reminders, and I won't get upset about it.
So my point is, I could give you a dozen of these examples. This is only one example where understanding people's nature is where now you can empower people the most—not making them be like you. That's the problem people have with their kids.
You have how many kids? Four of them? Four kids? Yeah, I know you don't have a favorite kid, but do you have an easier kid?
Do I have an easier kid? Yeah, I do. Yes.
Isn't he more like you or she?
Well, the one that's more like me is super competitive, but I don't have a challenge with any one of them. That's great!
I'll tell you, like, one of them is—my oldest one is purely politics and fighting. He reads and devours books. He just finished a book on Thomas Sowell—600 pages. He just, you know, he'll go through "Atlas Shrugged," "Fountainhead," he'll just kind of go through it, right?
The other one is—how old is he?
He's 12.
Got it. The 11-year-old is a sports guy. You know, he trains every day for three to four hours for soccer. He's got straight A's, and his worst grade is 93.
That's awesome!
And he is extremely independent and prepared. My two girls, you know, the obviously youngest one is three. She's just the most charming, charismatic out of the entire family.
But I would say a couple of them, you know, my oldest, my wife would tell you, has a side of my personality and a side of hers. My youngest son has a lot of me in him—yes, a lot of me in him. So he likes to always be around me.
Yes, the one that's most likely is usually the easiest to influence because you try to influence them the way that worked for you. If you say, "Clean your room," what worked for you will work with that kid, and he'll respond.
The other one might say, "Read between the lines," or maybe he won't do that. Certainly, not going to respond at the same level.
I think what you're trying to say is—and babe, if you're listening, he's trying to say have more kids!
So you can—like, I'm trying to get my—
That's how I interpreted it, Jen.
I just—go ahead, you were saying.
I digress.
I love that!
No, I'm just suggesting that most people are good at influencing people that are like themselves. The more you understand how people are different, the more you can influence another person. You have to know what already influences them.
So when you talked about these people that you're describing and salespeople, here's a question for you: Can you take a very non-social person and make them into a great salesperson? Could they do well in a sales job?
Great! You can make him a seven.
Can I make him a nine or a ten naturally, where another guy's naturally comfortable doing that? Probably not.
Probably not. You could probably do a nine for a short period of time when they're really hungry and driven. But the second question is, will they do the job well long-term? And the answer is no because it doesn't match their nature.
If you take someone who's very super social and make them an accountant, can they do a good job? Yes. Will he do a good job long-term? Bored out of their minds! They got to get out; they got to be around people.
So you have to match the nature to the person as opposed to saying, "This is the wrong person." You've got people you've brought in that maybe you didn't recognize the patterns yet of who are the best.
One of the ways we do it in salespeople in all my companies—I learned this from a partner I had years ago who passed away. We know that we need somebody in that position. I want somebody in that position that cares, that connects with people.
But if they care so much, sometimes they just accept limitations. If I accept your limitations, then there's no growth for you, right? There's a sale always made—either I persuade you what's possible or you persuade me what's not.
So you need someone with ego strength who can take rejection.
So what we do in our companies is we have a standard process. We put out an ad, let's say, that says, "Looking for the very best influencers—top of the line, world-class, nothing less. Great opportunities, great economics. Call only if you're world-class."
Then they call and they say, "I'm calling for this job," and they talk for a few seconds. We say, "Oh yeah, well, you don't sound world-class to me."
The person says, "Well, uh, can you tell me about the job?"
"No, tell me about you."
And within a few seconds, we usually hang up the phone.
Now we do that with everyone, even the most talented people. Why? Because we're working for the guy that'll call us back. You know, and he'll say, "Oh, you know, must have been a bad connection. You disconnected from me."
We said, "No, we just weren't getting it."
We'll hang up again. The person will come back three times and will use humor or connection or break our pattern. That's the person we now take to an interview.
When we do the interviews, we do the same thing. You get rejected so many times going through our process that only the absolute strongest egos are there. But we're also looking for the strongest caring.
So we look for someone—I think of it this way: good people are found and then trained, not just trained for a particular position. It's different for everybody based on their nature.
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