Transcription
Christians believe that Jesus is God. Christians also believe that Jesus died on the cross. So, Christians must believe that God died. But God is eternal and unchanging and immortal and all-powerful. What sense does it make to say that he died? Confused, yet not for long, because in this video, I'm going to do three things.
First, I'm going to state what the Christian position is so that everyone knows what we're claiming. Second, since this issue is most frequently brought up by Muslims as an objection to Christianity, I'm going to help our Muslim friends understand the Christian view by drawing attention to an interesting parallel with Islamic theology. Finally, I'm going to show why the Christian view is correct and why the Muslim view most certainly is not.
So, this discussion is mainly geared towards Christians and Muslims, but anyone who's watching, even you atheists, will soon have a better understanding of Christianity and Islam.
In the first verse of the Book of John, we read, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." So, the word "Logos" in Greek was in the beginning before anything was created. Verse three says that everything was created through the Word. The Word was with God, indicating that there's some sort of distinction between God and the Word, later to be fully clarified as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
And the Word was God, indicating that the Word was by nature, in essence, God. Verse 14 goes on to say that the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. This is referring, of course, to Jesus.
So, Christians aren't saying that God, as he exists eternally, died one day. The Christian claim is that the second person of the Trinity, who is in nature, in essence, God and who is with the Father and the Holy Spirit, entered into creation, taking on human flesh as Jesus of Nazareth. And that because he took on a human nature, he was able to die as a human being.
There's a similar passage in Philippians 2: "In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage. Rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross. Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
That's what Christians are claiming because that's what the Bible claims. But our Muslim friends insist either that God can't enter into his creation or that he can, but he just wouldn't. They'll even make up rules about this. They'll say that if God enters creation as Jesus of Nazareth, then he can't be God, because anything in creation is dependent and therefore unworthy of worship. Anything that is in the creation cannot be God because they are dependent, and anything that's dependent cannot be deserving of worship.
Of course, there are hadiths about Allah descending from the highest heaven to the lowest heaven. The lowest heaven is what you see when you look up at the sky, so it's our world. If Allah descends to our world, then he definitely enters creation. Assuming he ever leaves, for instance, Jamat Ter 446: Allah's messenger said, "Allah, blessed and exalted is He, descends to the Earth's heaven every night when the first third of the night has passed. He says, 'I am the Sovereign, is there any who calls upon me so that I may respond to him? Is there any who asks of me that I may give him? Is there any who seeks forgiveness from me so that I may forgive him?'"
Apparently, Allah can't hear prayers from far away. He needs to get really close in order to hear what people are saying; hence, he descends to our world.
How do our Muslim friends, who tell us that if God enters into creation, he isn't worthy of worship, respond?
"We believe Allah subhana wa ta'ala enters into his creation," they said. "The seven, uh, the lowest part of heaven. The way He does it is His majesty."
How it happens? I have no idea how it happens.
Now, what we're seeing is, "How does he enter? We don't know." What we say is that the way He does it is the way His majesty.
If you're starting to think that they make up rules as they go along while they simultaneously violate the rules they make up, you're absolutely right. But you can't blame them; they're just following the example of their Prophet, who did the exact same thing.
So, Allah enters into creation every night to find out what's going on, but there are different time zones. It's always night somewhere, which means that Allah is constantly darting back and forth, ascending and descending. He must spend quite a bit of time in his creation.
By the way, weren't all the heavens created by Allah? So, when is he not in his creation? Anything that is in the creation cannot be God because they are dependent, and anything that's dependent cannot be deserving of worship.
Here, our Muslim friends will say, "Okay, yes, Allah enters into creation, but it's not like he's entering into some specific thing like he does in Christianity."
You sure about that? In Surah 27:7-9, we read:
"Remember when Moses said unto his family, 'Verily I perceive a fire; I shall bring you some news therefrom or a brand that happily you may warm yourselves.' Then when he came to it, a call came unto him: 'Blessed is the one in the fire and the one around it, and glory be to God, Lord of the worlds. O Moses, verily it is I, God the Mighty, the Wise.'"
Who is the one around the fire? Moses? Who is the blessed one in the fire? Allah, God the Mighty, the Wise.
Now, if Allah can enter into his creation—enter into a fire and speak out of a fire—why, in the name of common sense, can't he enter into his creation, enter into a human body, and speak out of a human body? What's the new rule that Muslim apologists are going to make up so that they can once again tell us what God can and cannot do?
Perhaps our Muslim friends will reply, "Okay, yes, God can enter into his creation, but if he does, he obviously can't die because he's God. God is eternal and immortal. Something that's eternal and immortal can't die."
That may sound reasonable, but if Muslims are correct here, they've just destroyed the theology of the Quran.
According to Islam, the Quran is the eternal speech of Allah. It has no beginning, it was not created, it cannot be destroyed.
Watch how easy this is. Here's the Quran. I open the Quran, and the first thing I see is a publication date: 1997. Is this eternal? It doesn't seem eternal. How is it uncreated if it was published in 1997? Can it be destroyed? It's made of paper and glue and ink—highly flammable. There are plenty of videos on YouTube and various other sites of people destroying the Quran in lots of different ways. People rip it up, they burn it, they eat its pages, they feed its pages to animals, they use its pages to make beautiful origami sculptures.
Think about this: our Muslim friends ask, "How can God die?" as if this somehow refutes the Christian view. But let me ask: how can the eternal speech of Allah be ripped up, burned, eaten, fed to animals, and used for origami?
The Quran is Allah's eternal, uncreated, unchanging, incorruptible speech. Something that's eternal and uncreated and unchanging and incorruptible isn't the sort of thing that can be ripped up or burned or eaten or fed to animals or used for origami. Yet people have ripped it up and burned it and eaten it and fed it to animals and used it for origami.
How is that possible?
The correct response, according to Islamic theology, is that this Quran has two natures. On the one hand, as the eternal Word of Allah, it has no beginning, it was not created, it cannot be destroyed. On the other hand, this Quran is made of paper and glue and ink. These are physical materials. This physical Quran does have a beginning, it was created, it can be destroyed.
So, when I ask our Muslim friends, "How can the Quran be destroyed when the Quran is Allah's eternal speech?" their answer should be: "Listen, David, as Muslims, we're not saying that when someone destroys a Quran, Allah's eternal speech is destroyed. No, when someone destroys a Quran, the paper and glue and ink that make up the physical nature of the Quran are destroyed. But the eternal nature of the Quran remains unchanged."
Interesting response! That I had to give you to clear up your confusion.
Let me see if I understand: The eternal speech of Allah, which is uncreated and indestructible, can enter our physical world as a physical Quran, which is created and can be destroyed. If this Quran is destroyed, Muslims won't say that Allah's eternal speech is destroyed. They'll simply say that the Quran has two natures: an eternal nature and a physical nature, and that it's the physical nature that can be destroyed by ripping it up or burning it, etc.
Wonderful! I'm happy we finally understand the dual nature of the Quran. But now I'm confused again because according to Islam, something that's eternal and indestructible can indeed take on a physical nature that's not eternal and that can be destroyed.
Yet our Muslim friends tell us that it's impossible for something that's eternal and indestructible to take on a physical nature that's not eternal and that can be destroyed. Are they still making up rules as they go along without bothering to consider how their made-up rules demolish their own theology?
Christians claim that the divine Son, the eternal Word of God, became flesh and dwelt among us—that he entered into creation as Jesus of Nazareth. And that because he had taken on human flesh, which was created and perishable, he was capable of dying, even though apart from taking on human flesh, he couldn't die.
What rule makes Christian theology absurd here that wouldn't also make Islamic theology absurd? But the hypocrisy becomes even more glaring when we realize that, according to Muhammad himself, the Quran—Allah's eternal speech, Allah's eternal Word—appears as a man.
Muhammad said in Sunan Ibn Majah 3781, "The Quran will come on the Day of Resurrection like a pale man and will say, 'I am the one that kept you awake at night and made you thirsty during the day.'"
In the Muslim sources, the Quran appears as a man—a white man. The Quran speaks, the Quran remembers, the Quran intercedes. The Quran is, dare I say, personal!
Even better, it's actually multi-personal.
Among us is absurd while the Word became paper and glue and ink and sat on David Wood's bookshelf makes perfect sense. Until I get a good response here, which I won't, I can only conclude that Christians and Muslims have to agree that something eternal and indestructible can enter creation and take on a physical nature that's temporal and capable of being destroyed.
But if we have to agree on this point, why are Muslims so confused by the Christian claim that Jesus is God and that Jesus entered into creation and died on the cross?
The real confusion on this issue doesn't come from Christian theology; it comes from Islamic theology. Muslims simply have no concept of a God who would do something like that for human beings.
In Islam, it makes no sense for Allah to enter his creation to die for sins because Allah's justice and love and mercy are all limited and imperfect. For instance, what does the Quran say about Allah's love?
"Allah does not love those who exceed the limits." (Surah 2:190)
"Allah does not love any ungrateful sinner." (Surah 2:276)
"Allah does not love the unbelievers." (Surah 3:32)
"Allah does not love the unjust." (Surah 3:57)
"Allah does not love him who is proud and boastful." (Surah 4:36)
"Allah does not love the extravagant." (Surah 7:31)
"Allah does not love the treacherous." (Surah 8:58)
"Allah does not love the mischief-makers." (Surah 28:77)
"Allah does not love any arrogant boaster." (Surah 57:23)
The God of Muhammad only loves those who love him first. Allah has no love for rebellious sinners or unbelievers.
In Islam, your relationship to Allah is a slave-to-master relationship. (Surah 19:93) "There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent, Allah, as a slave." A master doesn't automatically love his slave. A master may eventually come to love a slave who serves him well for many years, but what slave master is ever going to lay down his life for his slaves?
So would a cosmic slave master, who doesn't love sinners or unbelievers, enter into the world to die for rebellious slaves and unbelievers who are sinning against him? Of course not.
The God of the Quran wouldn't do that because he just doesn't care about people that much. This is the real reason Muslims can't grasp the Incarnation and sacrificial death of Jesus.
I should also point out that Allah's justice is limited. According to Islam, if Allah wants to forgive you, he can just sweep your sins under the rug, pretend they never happened. That may be merciful, but it's not just. Islam teaches that at the end of time, there will be unpunished sin. That means that Allah's justice isn't perfect; he's going to let some sin slide.
How does this compare with the God of the Bible? Well, the God of the Bible is perfect in his attributes. God's love and mercy are perfect. God calls us his children. Again, a slave master doesn't automatically love his slave, but a father does automatically love his child. God loves sinners so much that he entered into creation in order to pay the price for our sins.
Romans 5:6-8 says, "You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Notice also that all sin is eventually punished in Christianity. Either you pay for your own sins, or you're forgiven, in which case Jesus himself takes the penalty. Since the God of the Bible punishes all sins, his justice is perfect.
Now, I know that this is difficult for our Muslim friends to grasp. They can't comprehend a God who would love people so much that he would lay aside his glory, enter into his creation, and pay the price for our sins.
But let me ask you this, my Muslim friend: Suppose you were king of the world, dressed in royal robes. One day, you're riding around on your favorite horse when you look over and see your child drowning in a pool of mud. Would you look at your child drowning and say, "I wish I could help, but I'm just too glorious and majestic for that?" Or would you toss your robes aside and dive right into that mud to save the child you love?
Would it matter to you that you're king of the world? No, all that would matter is your child. If that's how great your love is, how much greater do you think God's love is? Enough to enter creation and die for us.
That's the God that Jesus proclaims and that you reject because you prefer the cosmic slave master who just doesn't care about you that much.
Muslims bring up these objections to show Christians that there's something wrong with our view of God, but as soon as we dig a little deeper, we find that the Muslim view insults and degrades God by limiting his attributes, while the Christian view honors God by displaying his perfection.
God can be defined as the greatest possible being or as a maximally perfect being. So if I can think of a being greater than your God, you're not really worshiping God.
Guess what? I can easily think of a being greater than the God of the Quran. In fact, in at least one way, I'm greater than the God of the Quran: I love unbelievers; Allah doesn't. So my love is greater than Allah's.
Of course, my love is nothing compared to the love of the God of the Bible, who demonstrated his love for us and confirmed his message by Jesus' resurrection from the dead. And now he commands you to repent and believe the gospel.
What's the final objection? "When I say, believe the gospel." But David, the gospel was corrupted! Not according to the Quran.
One of the great ironies in all of this is that the defective, inferior God of the Quran affirms the inspiration, preservation, and authority of the Gospel, which portrays God as perfect in love, mercy, and justice.
Our Muslim friends don't know this because they don't read the Quran for themselves. Instead, they listen to their Imams, who can't stop making things up.
To all my Muslim friends who are watching, do yourself a huge favor and watch my video, "What the Quran Really Says About the Gospel," where I go through every single verse in the Quran that even mentions the gospel.
Watch the video, and then explain to me why you claim that the gospel has been corrupted when your God and your Prophet say the exact opposite.