Joe Rogan Experience #1470 - Elon Musk

Welcome back! Here we go again. Great to see you and congratulations! Thank you! Um, you will never forget what is going on in the world when you think about when your child is born. You will know for the rest of this child's life you were born during a weird time, that's for sure, that is for sure. They're probably the weirdest that I can remember. Uh, yeah, yeah. Um, and he was born on uh, May the fourth. And yeah, that's hilarious too. Yeah! May the fourth be with him! Yeah, exactly, it has to be. Hopefully, I sure hope so! Perfect! Yes! I mean, that was the perfect day for you.

And how do you say the name? Well, uh, is it a placeholder? First of all, my partner is the one that actually mostly came up with the name. Congratulations to her! Yeah, yeah, she's great at names. Um, so I mean, it's just X, the letter X. Um, and then the AE is like pronounced ash. Yeah, and then A12. A12 is my contribution. Oh, why A12? Uh, Archangel 12, the precursor to the SR-71, coolest plane ever. That's true! I agree with you. I don't know, I'm not familiar with it. I know what the SR-71 is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what that is. So the SR-71 came from a CIA program called Archangel. Oh, it's the Archangel Project and then Archangel 12. Oh wow, what a dope-looking plane! Yeah, oh, okay, I got it.

Yeah, well, as a person who's very much into aerial travel as you are, that's perfect! That's pretty great! Yeah, pretty great. Um, so is it—does it feel strange to have a child while this craziness is going on? Does it feel like you've had children before? Is this any weirder? Uh, it's actually, I think it's better, being older and having a kid. I appreciate it more. Um, yeah, babies are awesome. They are pretty awesome. They're awesome! Yeah, when I didn't have any of my own, I would see other people's kids, and I didn't not like them, sure, but I wasn't drawn to them, sure. But now when I see little people's kids, I'm like, "Oh, I think of them like these little love packages."

Yeah, little love bugs! Yeah, it's just you think of them differently when you see them come out and then grow and then eventually start talking to you. Your whole idea of what a baby is is very different. Yeah, so now as you, you know, get older and get to appreciate it as a mature, fully formed adult, it must be really pretty wonderful. Yeah, wonderful! It's great, but babies are awesome! Yeah, yeah, that's great.

Um, yeah, um, I mean, also I've spent a lot of time on AI and neural nets, and so you can sort of see the kind of the brain develop, which is, you know, what an AI neural net is trying to simulate, what a brain does basically. Um, and you can sort of see it learning very quickly. You know, it's just, wow, see things fire.

So you're talking about the neural net, you're not talking about an actual baby? I don't know about actually an actual baby, but both of them, yes. But the word neural net comes from the brain. It's like a net of neurons. So, you know, it's like the, yeah, humans are the, you know, original gangster of the neural net! That's a great way to put it!

Yeah, so when you're programming artificial intelligence, where you're working with artificial intelligence art, are they specifically trying to mimic the developmental process of a human brain? In a lot of ways, there are some ways that are different. Um, you know, an analogy that's often used is like, you know, we don't make a submarine swim like a fish, but we take the principles of hydrodynamics and apply them to a submarine.

I've always wondered, as a layperson, do you try to achieve the same results as a human brain but through different methods, or do you try to copy the way a human brain achieves results? I mean, the essential elements of an AI neural net are really very, very similar to a human brain neural net. Yeah, it's having the multiple layers of neurons and, you know, backpropagation. These all—these things are what your brain does! You know, it's sort of, yeah, um, you have a layer of neurons that goes through a series of intermediate steps to ultimately cognition, and then it'll reverse those steps and go back and forth and go all over the place.

Um, it's um, yeah, it's interesting—very interesting! Yeah, I would imagine, like the thought of programming something that is eventually going to be smarter than us, that one day it's going to be like, "Why did you do it that way?" Like when artificial intelligence becomes sentient, they're like, "Oh, you tried to mimic yourself like this, so much better process. Cut out all this nonsense!" But like, there are elements that are the same but just almost like, like an aircraft does not fly like a bird.

Right?! Yeah, it doesn't flap its wings, but the wings, the way the wings work and generate lift is the same as a bird. Now you're in the middle of this strange time where you're selling your houses. You say you don't want any material possessions, and I've been seeing all that, and I've been really excited to talk to you about this.

Yeah, because it's an interesting thing to come from a guy like yourself. Like, why are you doing that? I'm slightly sad about it actually. But if you're sad about it, why are you doing it? I think, I think possessions kind of weigh you down. They're kind of an attack vector. You know, people say, "Hey billionaire, you got all this stuff," like, "Well, and now I don't have stuff, now what are you gonna do?"

Attack vector meaning like people target it? Yeah, um, interesting. Yeah, but you're obviously going to—so you’re going to rent a place? Yeah, okay. And get rid of everything except clothes? No, I said like almost everything. So it's like keep a couple Teslas? Yeah, sure, yeah. Kind of have to test product and stuff. Um, yeah, those things that have sentimental value for sure are keeping those here.

Um, yeah, so do you feel like what's worse that could happen, right? You're fine. Yeah, you could always buy more stuff if you don’t like it. Especially, yeah, I mean from the money that you sell all your stuff, you could buy new stuff. But do you feel like people define you by the fact that you're wealthy and that they define you in a pejorative way? For sure! I mean, not everyone, but right, you know, there’s for sure in recent years, "billionaire" has become a pejorative. Like it's a bad thing. Um, which I mean I think doesn't make a lot of sense in most cases.

If you basically organized a company, like see, like how does this wealth arise? It's if you organize people in a better way to produce products and services that are better than what existed before, and you have some ownership in that company, then that essentially gives you the right to allocate more capital. So, there's a conflation of consumption and capital allocation.

So, let me say Warren Buffett for example, and to get totally frank I’m not his biggest fan, but uh, you know, he does a lot of capital allocation, um, and he reads a lot of, a lot of sort of annual reports of companies and all the accounting, and it’s pretty boring really. Um, and he’s trying to figure out does Coke or Pepsi deserve more capital? I mean that's kind of a boring job if you ask me.

Um, but, uh, you know, it's still a thing that's important to figure out like which is a company deserving of more or less capital? Should that company grow or expand? Is it making products and services that are better than others or worse? And, you know, should—if a company is making compelling products and services, it should get more capital. And if it's not, it should get less and will go out of business.

Well, there's a big difference too between someone who's making an incredible amount of money designing and engineering fantastic products versus someone who's making an incredible amount of money by investing in companies or moving money around in the stock market or doing things along those lines. It's a different thing, and to put them all in the same category seems, it's very simple and as you pointed out, it's an attack vector.

Yeah, for sure! Yeah, I mean I think it's really, I do think they're—in the United States especially there's an over allocation of talent in finance and law. Uh, basically too many smart people go into finance and law. So, you know, this is both a compliment and a criticism. We should have, I think, fewer people doing law and fewer people doing finance and more people making stuff.

Yeah, yeah! Well, that would certainly be better for all involved if they made better stuff! Yeah, yeah absolutely! Um, and you know manufacturing used to be highly valued in the United States and these days it's not—it’s often looked down upon, which I think is wrong.

Yeah, well I think that people are kind of learning that particularly because of this whole pandemic and this relationship that we have with China that there's a lot of value in making things here. Yes, somebody's got to do the real work, you know! And, um, you know, like making a car, it's an honest day's living, that's for sure! You know, or making anything really, or providing valuable service, um, like providing, you know, greater entertainment, good information, but these are all valuable things to do, um, you know, so yeah there should be more of it.

Did you have a moment where is this something that this idea of getting rid of your material possessions is something that built up over time, or did you have a moment of realization where you realize that?

Yeah, I've been thinking about it for a while. Um, you know part of it is like I like have a bunch of houses, but I don't spend a lot of time in most of them, and that doesn't seem like a good use of assets. Like somebody could probably be enjoying those houses and get better use of them than me.

So don't you have Gene Wilder's house? I do! That's amazing! That's awesome! Wow, exactly what you'd expect! Did you request that the buyer not [__] it up? Yeah, that's a requirement! Oh, a requirement? That's a good requirement! Not in that case, in that house.

Yeah, it'll probably sell for less, but still, I don't care. Uh, he's a legend! Yeah, he would want his soul, he'd want his essence. Yeah, it's, and it's there. That's a real quirky house! Yeah. What makes you say it's there? Like, what do you get out of it?

I mean, all the cabinets are like handmade and they're like odd shapes and there's like doors to nowhere and strange like car doors and tunnels and really odd, odd paintings on the wall. And, um, yeah. Did you ever live in it? It's very quirky! I did live in it briefly, yeah! But why do you buy houses? Like, if you own all these houses, do you just get bored and go, "I think I'd like to have that?"

Well, you know, I had one house and then the junior Wilder house right across the road from me from my main house, and it was going to get sold and then torn down and turned into, you know, be a big construction zone for three years. And I was like, "Well, I think I'll buy it and preserve the spirit of Gene Wilder and not have a giant construction zone."

And then, you know, this, I started having like some privacy issues where like people would like less people, just like come to my house and, you know, start climbing over the walls and stuff. I feel like, man!

So then I saw like what a house some of the houses around my house and then I thought at one point, "Well, you know, it'd be cool to build a house." So then I acquired some properties at the top of Samara road, which has got a great view. And it's like, "Okay, well, these some bunch of sort of small older houses they're going to get torn down anyway." I was like, "Well, you know, if I collect these like little houses, then I can build something, you know, I don't know, artistic, like a, you know, dream house type of thing."

What's a dream house for Elon Musk? Like some Tony Stark type [__]? Yeah, definitely! Yeah, you got to have the dome that opens up with the stealth helicopter and that kind of thing, you know!

Yeah, for sure! [__]! Yeah! Um, but then I was like, "Man, does it really make sense for me to spend time designing and building a house?" And I'd be real, you know, get out like OCD on the little details and the design, and or should I be allocating that time to getting us to Mars? I should probably do the latter! So, you know, like what's more important, Mars or a house?

I like Mars! Okay, is that really how you think? Like that it'd be better off planning on a trip to Mars or getting people to Mars?

Yeah, yeah, definitely! I mean, you can only do so many things, right? Right! So, how you can—I don't know how you do what you do anyway! I don't understand how you can run Boring Company, Tesla, SpaceX, all these different things you're doing constantly! I just—I don't understand!

I mean, you explained last time you were here how you sort of allocate your time and how hectic it is and insane. I still don't—the productivity is baffling, just doesn't make sense how you can get so much done!

Well, I think I do have high productivity, but even with that there's still some upgrade cost of time and allocating time to building a house. Even if it was a really great house, it still is not a good use of time relative to developing the rockets necessary to get us to Mars and helping sell sustainable energy.

Spacex and Tesla are by far, you know—I spend the most amount of like brain cycles. You know, Boring Company does not take, you know, like less than one percent of brain cycles. And, um, then this Neuralink which is, I don't know, maybe it's like five percent.

And then five percent—that's a good chunk! It's a good chunk! Yeah! Yeah, we were talking about that last time, and you were trying to figure out when it was actually going to go live, when it's actually going to be available. Are you testing on people right now?

No, we're not testing people yet, but I think it won't be too long. I think we may be able to implant a Neuralink in less than a year in a person, I think! And when you do this, is there any tests that you have to do before you do something like this to see what percentage of people's bodies are going to reject these things?

Is it—put—is there a potential for rejection? It's a very low potential for rejection! I mean, you can think of it like people put in, you know, heart monitors and, um, you know, things for epileptic seizures and deep brain stimulation.

Um, obviously like, you know, artificial hips and right knees and that kind of thing! So the probability of, I mean like, it's so—it's well known like what will cause rejection, what will not. Um, it's definitely harder when you've got something that is sort of reading and writing neurons that's generating a current pulse and reading current pulses—that's a little harder!

Um, then say a passive device, but it's still, you know, very doable. And, um, yeah, there are people who have primitive devices in their brains right now.

What kind of devices? Uh, like deep brain stimulation is, I think for Parkinson's, has really changed people's lives in a big way, um, which is kind of remarkable because it kind of like zaps your brain! Um, it's like kicking the TV type of thing!

Um, and you think like, man, kicking the TV shouldn't work! It does sometimes! Yeah, yeah, the old TVs, it did! My grandpa used to slap the top for sure! Yeah, it would work sometimes!

Yeah, so this deep brain stimulation—implanted devices in the brain that have changed people's lives for the better? Like fundamentally?

Well, let's talk about what you can talk about to what Neuralink is, because the last time you were here you really couldn't discuss it. And then there was a, I guess, a press release or something that sort of outlined.

Yeah, that that happened quite a bit after the last time you were here. So what exactly is it? How do you do—what happens if someone ultimately does get a Neuralink installed? What will take place?

Well, for version one of the device, it would be basically implanted in your skull, but it would be flush with your skull. So you basically take out a chunk of skull, replace and put the Neuralink device in there.

Um, you put the electrode—you'd insert the electrode threads very carefully into the brain, and then you, you know, stitch it up. And you wouldn't even know that somebody has it!

And then it can interface basically anywhere in your brain. Um, so it could be something that, uh, you know, helps cure say, eyesight, like give you—returns your eyesight even if you've like lost your optic nerve type of thing.

Uh, really? Yeah, yeah, absolutely! Hearing, obviously! Um, I mean pretty much anything that where that it could in principle fix almost anything that is wrong with the brain! And it could restore limb functionality! So if you've got, uh, interface into the motor cortex and then an implant that's say, that's like a microcontroller near muscle groups, uh, you could then create a sort of a neural shunt that restores somebody who's a quadriplegic to full functionality! Like they can walk around, be normal!

Whoa! Yeah, so maybe slightly better, slightly better over time. Yes! You mean with future iterations? Like the, you know, six million dollar man. Although these days, that doesn't matter!

Yeah, six billion dollars! So the hole would be small? How big would the hole be that you have to drill and then replace with this piece?

It's only one hole, well um, yeah, the device we're working on right now is about, it's about an inch in diameter. Um, and your skull is pretty thick by the way. So skulls are—mine is for sure!

It might actually literally—I mean if you're a big guy, your skull is actually fairly thick! Um, skulls like—it's like seven to 14 millimeters, um, so that's probably a couple inches—a half inch, you know, half inch thick skull-ish so, um, yeah, yeah!

So that's a fair bit of like our—we got quite a coconut going on here! It's not like some eggshell! Oh yeah, I believe you!

Um, so the yeah, you basically implant the device, uh, and so you would be like a one inch square? One inch in diameter? Yeah, like so an inch circle, like a circular!

Yeah, I think like a, like a smart watch or something like that! Okay, yeah, okay! So you take this one-inch diameter, like ice fishing, right? You ever go ice fishing?

Um, no, but I'd like to! It's great! Yeah, it's really fun! So you basically take an auger, and you drill through the surface of the ice, and you create a small hole, and you can dunk your line in there.

So this is like that—you’re ice fishing on the top of your skull, and then you cork it! Yeah! And you replace that, say, one inch diameter piece of skull with this Neuralink device, and that has a battery and a Bluetooth and an inductive charger, um, and then you—and now then you also got to insert the electrodes.

Uh, so the electrode is very carefully inserted with our—with a robot that we developed, that's, you know, very carefully putting in the electrodes and avoiding, you know, any veins or arteries, so it’s, you know, it doesn't create trauma!

So through this one-inch diameter device, electrodes are inserted, and they will find their way—like tiny wires, basically—tiny wires and they'll find their way to specific areas of the brain to stimulate?

No, you literally put them where they're supposed to go! Oh, okay! Yeah! How long will these wires be?

Uh, I mean they usually go in like, you know, depending on where it is, like, you know, two or three millimeters, so they just find the spots? Yeah, wow!

Um, and then, um, yeah, then you put the device in and that gets, uh, that—that replaces the little piece of skull that was taken out! Uh, and then you, you stitch up the hole and, um, and you just have it look like a little scar and that's it!

Well, this would be replaceable or reversible? Yes, like if someone can't take it anymore? I'm too smart, I can't take it! Yeah, you can totally check it out!

And what is the—besides restoring limb function and eyesight and hearing, which are all amazing, are there any cognitive benefits that you anticipate from something like this?

Uh, yeah! I mean, you could for sure, um, uh, I mean basically it's a generalized, um, sort of, uh, thing for—for fixing any kind of brain injury in principle. Like if you or if you've got like like severe epilepsy or something like that, it could, it could just, it could just sort of stop the epilepsy from occurring.

Like it could detect it in real-time and then fire a counter pulse and stop the epilepsy. Um, if, um, I mean there's a whole range of brain injuries.

Like if somebody gets a stroke, they could lose the ability to speak. Um, you know, that—that’ll stack could also be fixed. So if you've got like stroke damage or if you lose say, you know, muscle control over part of your face or something like that, I think, and then when—you get old, you tend to, if you get like, you know, Alzheimer's or something like that, then you lose memory, and this could help you with, you know, restoring your memory, that kind of thing.

Restoring memory? And what is happening that's allowing it to do that? Like the wires—these small wires stimulating these areas of the brain? And then is it that the areas of the brain are—are they losing some sort of electrical force? Like what is happening?

Yeah, yeah, it's—it’s like I think it's like a bunch of circuits, and there are some like circuits that are broken and we can like, uh, fix those circuits, substitute for those circuit circuits, and so a specific frequency will go through this?

Yeah, specific and that would—is the process figuring out how much or how little has to be—how much these areas of the brain have to be juiced up?

Yeah, I mean there's still a lot of work to do! So when I say, you know, we got a shot at probably putting it in in a person in, you know, within a year, I think that's—that's what—that’s exactly what I mean. I think we have a chance of putting input into one and having them be healthy and restoring some functionality that they've lost.

The fear is that eventually you're gonna have to cut the whole top of someone's head off and put a new top with a whole bunch of wires if you want to get, you know, the real turbocharged version—the P100D of brain stimulation. I mean ultimately if you want to go with full AI symbiosis, you'll probably want to do something like that.

Symbiosis is a scary word when it comes to AI! It's optional! [Laughter] I would hope so! Yeah, it's just, I mean once you enjoy the Dr. Manhattan lifestyle—once you become a god, seems very, very unlikely you're going to want to go back to being stupid again!

I mean, you literally could fundamentally change the way human beings interface with each other! Yes, yes! You wouldn't need to talk! I'm so scared of that but so excited about it at the same time! Is that weird?

Yeah, I mean the—I think this is one of the paths to, um, you know, I think like what, like AI is getting better and better! Um, so now let's assume it's sort of like a benign AI scenario, even in a benign scenario we're kind of left behind.

You know, we're not along for the ride. Um, we're just too dumb, right? So, so how do you go along for the ride? Um, yeah, so you can't beat them, join them! So, um, and we're already a cyborg to some degree, right? Because you've got your phone, you've got your laptop, glasses.

Yeah, yeah! Guitar, electronic devices! And I mean today, if you, your phone, if you don't bring your phone along it's like you have missing limb syndrome! That's like, you know, it feels like something's really, really missing! So, we're already partly um, part, you know, partly a cyborg um, or an AI symbiote essentially!

Um, it's just that the data rate to the electronics is slow! So, especially output—like you're just going with your thumbs! I don't know, like what's your data rate, maybe optimistically a hundred bits per second? That's being generous!

Um, and now the computer can communicate at like, you know, a hundred terabits! You know, so, so certainly, you know, gigabits are trivial at this point! So this, this is like, you know, basically your computer could do things a million times faster!

Or, at a certain point it's like talking to a tree. Okay, it's boring! You talk to a tree, it's very not very entertaining! Um, so, um, so if you if you can solve the data rate issue, and your especially output but input too, then you can improve the symbiosis that is already occurring between man and machine!

So you—you can improve it in what? When you said you won't have to talk to each other anymore?

We used to joke around about that! I've joked around about that a million times in this podcast that one day in the future there's going to come a time where you can read each other's minds!

And, well you'll be able to interface with each other in some sort of a non-verbal, non-physical way where you will transfer data back and forth to each other without having to actually use your mouth and make noises! Exactly!

So when you, like what happens when you—when like, let's say you've got some complex idea that you're trying to convey to somebody else, and how do you do that? Well, your brain spends a lot of effort compressing a complex concept into words!

And there's a lot—there's a lot of information loss that occurs when compressing a complex concept into words! And then you say those words, those words are then interpreted, then they're decompressed by the person who is listening!

And they will at best get a very incomplete understanding of what you're trying to convey! It's very difficult to convey a complex concept with precision because you've got compression, decompression. You may not even have heard all the words correctly, and so communication is difficult!

You know what we have here is a failure to communicate! Cool and Luke, yes! And there's a great movie. Yeah, there's an interpretation factor too! Like you can choose to interpret certain series of words in different ways!

And they're dependent upon tone, dependent upon social cues, even facial expressions! Sarcasm, there's a lot of variables! Sarcasm is difficult! Yes!

Yeah, and so one of the things that I've said is like that there could be potentially a universal language that's created through computers that particularly young kids would pick up very quickly! Like my kids do TikTok and all this jazz and I don't know what they're doing!

They just know how to do it and they know how to do it really quickly! Like they learn really quickly! They show me how to edit things and, yeah, it's if you taught a child from first grade on how to use some new universal language, I mean essentially like a Rosetta stone and something that's done that interprets your thoughts!

And you can convey your thoughts with no room for interpretation—very clear! That where you know what a person is saying and you can tell them what you're saying and there's no need for noises! No need for mouth noises!

No need for these sort of accepted ways that we've sort of evolved to make sounds that we all agree through our cultural dictionary! Right? We agree or certainly we could bypass all that!

Yeah, we can still do it for sentimental reasons! Right? Like campfires! Yeah, yeah, exactly! I don't need campfires! I don't need to roast marshmallows! Kind of fun! Right?

Um, so yeah, um, yeah, I think you would in principle you would be able to communicate very quickly and with far more precision ideas! And language would—I’m not sure what would happen to language, but you could probably within a situation like this that you would be able to, just kind of like the Matrix!

You want to speak a different language? No problem! Right? Just download the program! Right! So at least for the first iterations, first few iterations, we'll just be able to use like—I know that Google has their some of their Pixel Buds have the ability to interpret languages in real-time!

Sure, yeah! You can hear it and it'll play things back to you in whatever language you choose! So to be something along those lines? Yeah, for the first few iterations!

Well, the first few iterations really, in the first few versions, all we're going to be trying to do is solve brain injuries! Um, so it's like don't worry that that's not going to sneak up on you! This will take a while!

How many years before you don’t have to talk? If the development continues to accelerate, then maybe like five years! Five to ten years! That's quick! That's really quick!

That's the best-case scenario! No talking anymore in five years? Best case scenario! But I’m—10, 10 years more like it! I've always speculated that aliens could potentially be us in the future because if you look at like the size of their heads and the fact that they have very little muscle and then they don't use their mouth anymore!

They have tiny little—I mean the archetypal alien that you see in like Close Encounters of the Third Kind! They’re like if you went from like, uh, Australopithecus or ancient hominid to us, what's the difference? Less hair, less muscle, bigger head! And then just keep going! A thousand—however long!

Or five years! Whatever! Whatever happens when Neuralink goes online and then we slowly start to adapt to this new way of being where we don't use our muscles anymore! We have this gigantic head!

We can talk without words! You could also save state! And save state, save state! Like save your brain state!

Like, like if you want to swap from Windows 95! Well, yeah! I think we are Windows 95 right now! Yeah, from a future perspective probably!

Um, but yeah, I mean you could save state, um, and restore that state into a biological being if you if you wanted to in the future, in principle! It's like nothing like, from a physics standpoint, that prevents us!

Now you'd be a little different, but then you're also a little different when you wake up in the morning from yesterday and you're a little different! In fact if you say like you five years ago versus you today is quite a big difference!

Yes! Um, so you'd be substantially you! I mean you’d be—you'd certainly think you're you, but the idea of saving yourself and then transforming that into some sort of a biological state like you can hang out with 30-year-old you!

I mean the possibilities are endless! That's so weird! I mean these things think like how your phone can—you can record videos on your phone! Like there's no way you could remember a video, right, as accurately as your phone or a camera, you know, could!

So, uh, now if you've got like a, you know, some, you know, version 10 hero link, whatever, and far in the future, you could—you could remember, you could recall everything but just like it's a movie, including all the entire sensory experience, emotions, everything!

Everything! Everything! And play it back and you can enjoy it! You could edit it! Edit it! Yeah, so you can change your past! You could change what you think was your past!

Yeah! Well, so if you had like a tremendous thing right now, could it be a replayed memory? It could be, yeah!

What's the odds of this being a replayed memory, if you had a guess? It's more than 50! There's no way to assign a probability with accuracy here, right? But roughly, if you just had a gut instinct?

Well, I don't have a Neuralink in my brain, so I'd say right now zero percent! But at the point at which you do have a Neuralink, then it rises above zero percent!

The idea that we're experiencing some sort of a preserved memory is even though it's still the same, it's not comforting, right? For some reason when we—people talk about simulation theory, they talk about the potential for this currently being a simulation.

Even though your life might be wonderful, you might be in love, you might love your career, you might have great friends, but it's not comforting to know that this experience somehow or another doesn't exist in a material form that you can knock on!

It feels real, doesn’t it? It feels real, but if it’s not, but the idea that it’s not is for some strange reason disconcerting!

Well, yeah, I’m sure it should be disconcerting because then if this is not real, what is? Right? Um, but the, you know, there's that old sort of thought experiment of like how do you know you're not a brain in a vat? You know?!

I mean now here's the thing! You are a brain in a vat! Then that vat is your skull! Yes! And everything you see, feel, hear, everything, all your senses are electrical signals! Everything! Everything is an electrical signal!

So, up to a brain in a vat where the vat is called—And all your hormones, all your neurotransmitters, all these things are drugs! Adrenaline’s a drug! Dopamine’s a drug! You're a drug factory! You're constantly changing your state with love and oxytocin and, and beauty!

Sure changes your state! Great music changes your state! Absolutely! And yet here's another sort of interesting idea which is, um, because you say like where did consciousness arise?

Well, assuming you believe the belief in physics, which appears to be true, um, then you know we—the universe started off as basically quarks and leptons, and it quickly became hydrogen and of helium and lithium—like basically elements of the periodic table—but it was like mostly hydrogen!

Basically, and then over a long period of time, uh, you know 13.8 billion years later, that hydrogen became sentient! But so where along the way that conju—where is the consciousness? What's the line of consciousness and not consciousness, right?

Between hydrogen and here, right? When do we call it—when do we call it consciousness? I was watching a video today that we played on a podcast earlier of a monkey riding a motorcycle down the street—jumps off the motorcycle and tries to steal a baby!

Yeah, I saw that one! They went viral! What is that monkey conscious? It seems like it is! It seems like it had a plan! It was riding a [__] motorcycle and then jumped off the motorcycle to try to steal a baby! It seems pretty—the one that just struck the baby down the street—pretty far!

Yeah, yeah, seems pretty conscious, right? There’s definitely some degree of consciousness there! Yeah, it's not like—it's not a worm! It seems to be on another level!

Yeah! And it's going to keep going! And that's the real concern when people think about the potential future versions of human beings, especially when you consider the symbiotic relationship to artificial intelligence.

It will be unrecognizable! That one day we'll be so far removed from what this is, we’ll look back on this the way we look back now on, you know, simple—simple organisms that we evolved from! And then it won't be that far in the future that we do have this view back!

Well, I hope consciousness propagates into the future and it gets more, more sophisticated and complex and, and that it understands the questions to ask about the universe! Do you think that's the case?

As a human being as yourself, you're clearly trying to make conscious decisions to be a better version of you! Right? This is the idea of like getting rid of your possessions and realizing that you're trying to like, "I don't like this, I will try to improve this! I will try to do a better version of the way I interface with reality."

That this is always the way things are! If you're if you're moving in some sort of a direction where you're trying to improve things, you're always going to move into this new place where you look back in the old place and go, "I was doing it wrong back then!"

So this is an accelerated version of that—super accelerated version of that! I mean, you don't always improve, but you can aspire to improve! You can aspire to be less wrong!

Yeah! This is like, I think a good—the tools of physics are very powerful! Like just assume you're wrong and your goal is to be less wrong! I don't think you're gonna—in if you succeed every day in being less wrong, but you know, if you're gonna succeed in being less wrong most of the time, you're doing great!

That's a great way of putting it! Aspire to be less wrong! But then when you know people look back at nostalgia about simpler times, there’s that too! It's very romantic and exciting to look back on campfires, but you can still have a campfire!

Yes! Yeah! But will you appreciate it when you're a super nerd? When you're connected to the grid and you have some skull cap in place of the top of your head and it's interfacing with the international language that the rest of the universe now enjoys?

Communication with people? Yeah, sure! I think so! Yeah! I like campfires! [Laughter] I'm just worried! I mean, everyone's always scared of change, but I'm scared of this monumental change where we won't talk anymore!

I mean, that thing will communicate! Yes! But there's something about—the beauty of the crudeness of language where when it's done eloquently, it's satisfying and it—it hits us in some sort of a visceral way!

Like, ah! That person nailed it! I love that they nailed it like that! It's so hard to capture a real thought and convey it in a way in this articulate way that makes someone—except like you read a quote, a great quote by a wise person!

It makes you excited that their mind figured something out, put the words together in the right way that makes your brain pop! Like, oh yes! Yeah! Yes! It’s clever compression of a concept!

Yeah! And a feeling! But the fact that a human did it too! Yeah, absolutely! Do you think that it'll be like electronic music? Like people won't appreciate it like they appreciate a slide guitar?

I like electronic music! I do too! Yeah! Well, you make it! I know you liked it! Yeah, yeah!

Um, yeah! I mean I hope the future is more fun and interesting and we should try to make that way! I hope it's more fun and interesting too! Yeah! I just, you know, I just hope you don't lose anything along the way!

Yeah, we might! At least a little! But hopefully we'll gain more than lose! Yeah, that's the thing, right? Gaining more than we lose! Like something that makes us interesting is that we’re so flawed!

It's not—for sure, right? Yeah! I mean you look at civilizations through the ages, most of them, you know, they rose and fell!

Yeah! And I do think like the globalization that we have at the sort of like the meme sphere, uh, is—there's not enough isolation between countries or regions! Um, it's like if you get up—if there’s a mind virus that—that mind virus cannot infect too much of the world!

Uh, you know, like I actually sort of sympathize with the anti-globalization people because it’s like man, we don’t ever want everywhere to be the same! For sure!

And then we—we need some kind of like mind viral immunity! So that's—it’s a bit concerning! Mind viral immunity meaning that once something like Neuralink gets established, the real concern is something that—I mean you said it's Bluetooth, right? Or some future version of that?

That the idea is that something could possibly get into it, [__] it up? No, I'm talking about like, uh, somebody—there’s some cockeyed concept that, um, that's happened, that happens right now!

Yeah! Well, I know there’s viruses in embedded chips, right? Like people have—they’ve embedded chips and then acquired viruses!

Well, when I'm talking about mind viruses, I'm talking about like a, a concept that, um, affects people's minds! Oh, okay! Like, uh, cult thinking or a—yeah, some sort of fundamentalism!

Yeah! Just wrong-headed idea that, um, that goes viral in an idea sense! Uh-huh!

Well, that is—that is a problem too, right? If someone can manipulate that technology to make something appear logical or rational!

Yeah, yeah, that would—that would be an issue too! This is a very have versus have not issue, right? Once this thing—if this really does—I mean initially it's going to help people with—with injuries!

And, but you, you said ultimately it could lead to this spectacular cognitive change! Yes!

But the people that first get it should have a massive advantage over people that don't have it yet! Well, I mean it's the kind of thing where your productivity would improve, I don't know, dramatically! Maybe by a factor of 10!

With it! So you could definitely just, you know, uh, I don't know, take out a loan and do it and earn the money back real fast! So you're super smart! Well, in a capitalist society, you know, you could—it seems like you could really get so far ahead that before everybody else could afford this thing and link up and get connected as well, you'd be so far ahead they could never catch you! Is that a concern?

Uh, well, I think the—it's not a super huge concern! I mean there are huge differences in cognitive ability and and resources already! Yeah!

I mean you can think of a corporation as like a cybernetic collective that's far smarter than an individual! Like I can personally build like a whole rocket and the engines and launch it and everything—that's impossible!

Uh, but you know we have eight thousand people with SpaceX. And you might, you know, piecing it out to different people!

Um, and using like, you know, computers and machines and stuff, we can make lots of rockets, launch and all but stuck with the space station, that kind of thing! You know!

Um, so that already exists where this—you know, where there’s corporations are vastly more capable than an individual!

Um, but the the, like we should be, I think, less concerned about like relative capabilities between people and more like having AI be vastly, you know, beyond us and decoupled from human will! Decoupled from human will!

So this is the if you can't beat them, join them! Yeah! I mean, so you feel like it's inevitable like AI sentient AI is essentially inevitable?

Super-sentient AI? Yeah, like beyond a level that's difficult to understand! And impossible to understand, probably!

And somehow or another us! So it's almost like it’s a requirement for survival to achieve some sort of symbiotic existence with AI! It's not a requirement! It's just, um, if you—if you want to be along for the ride, then you need to do some kind of symbiosis!

So, uh, the way your brain works right now, you've got uh, kind of like the animal brain, reptile brain! Kind of, let's say it's like the limbic system basically, and you've got the cortex!

Um, now the brain purists will argue with this definition, but essentially you've got the primitive brain and you've got the sort of smart brain or the brain that's capable of planning and understanding concepts and different difficult, you know, things that a monkey can't understand.

Um, now the—your cortex is much, much smarter than your limbic system! Um, nonetheless, they work together!

Well, I haven't met anyone who wants to delete the limbic system or the cortex! That people are quite happy having both!

Um, so you can think of the—this as being like the computer, the AI is like a a third layer, a tertiary layer! So that is like that could be symbiotic with the cortex! It’d be much smarter than the cortex! But you'd essentially have three layers!

And you actually have that right now! Your phone is capable of things and your computer is capable things that your brain is definitely not! You know, storing your terabytes of information perfectly!

Um, doing incredible calculations that you, you know, we couldn't even come close to doing! You have that with your computer! It's just, like I said, the data rate is slow!

The connection is weak! Why is it so disconcerting or why is it—why does it not give me comfort to think about like when I think about a symbiotic connection to AI, I always think of this cold, emotionless sort of thing that we will become—is that a bad way to look at it?

I don't think that’s—not that’s not quite, that’s not how it would be! Like I said, you already are a symbiotic with AI or computers! Phones, computers, laptops!

Yeah! And there's quite a bit of AI going on, you know, near! So artificial neural nets, um, increasingly neural nets are sort of taking over from regular programming more and more!

So you are connected! Um, you know, if you use Google Voice or Alexa or one of those things, it's using a neural net to decode your speech and try to understand what you're saying!

Um, you know if you're trying to do image recognition or improve the quality of photographs, it's—it's using the neural nets, the best way to do that!

So, um, you are already, uh, sort of a sort of a cybernetic symbiote. Like I said, when that—it’s just a question of your data rate! The communication speed between your phone and your brain is slow!

When do you think you're gonna do it? How long will you wait?

Um, like once it starts becoming available? Yeah! If it works, I'll do it! Sure! Right away!

I mean, let's make sure it works! How do we make sure it works? We're trying on prisoners! Like what do you do?

No, no, you take rapists, no! Cut holes in your head! Now, like I said, if somebody’s got a serious brain injury, right, um, and though you know people have like very severe brain injuries, um, and then—and then you can fix those those brain injuries!

Um, and you know then you prove out that it works and you expand the envelope expand and make more and more brain injuries, uh, solve more and more!

Um, and that, you know suddenly at a certain age, we all are going to get Alzheimer's! We're all going to get senile! Um, and then you know, moms forget the names of their kids and that kind of thing!

And so, you know, it's like you said, "Okay, well, you know, this would allow you to remember your names, your kids and—and have a normal, a much more normal life where you’re able to function much later in life."

Um, so I think that so essentially that there would almost everyone would find a need at some point if you get old enough to use your Neuralink and—and then it's like, "Okay, so we can improve the functionality and improve the communications communication speed!"

So then you will not have to use your thumbs to communicate with the computer! Do you ever sit down and extrapolate?

Do you ever like sit down and think about all the different iterations of this and what this eventually leads to?

Um, yeah! I mean I think, sure, think about a lot!

Um, there's—like I said this is not something that's going to sneak up on you, you know there's like getting FDA approval for this stuff is not like overnight, you know?

Um, and this—there's—I mean we probably have to be on like version 10 or something before, you know, it would realistically be, um, you know a human AI symbiote situation!

So you'll see it coming! You know, you'll see it coming! But what do you think it's going to be like when you sit—when you're alone, if you have free time?

I don't know if you have free time, but if you just sit down and think about this iteration, the next, onward, keep going!

And you drag it out with improvements along the way and leaps and bounds and technological innovations, and where do you see it? What are we going to be like when you—25 years from now?

What are we going to be? Well, assuming civilization is still around, um, it’s looking fragile right now!

Um, I think we could have a—in 25 years, probably something I think like that could be a whole brain interface! A whole brain interface, sorry? Pretty close to that!

Yeah! How does—how do you define—what do you mean by whole brain interface? Um, like almost all the neurons are connected to, uh, you're the sort of AI extension of yourself, if you want!

AI extension of yourself! Yeah! What does that mean to you? Like when you say AI extension of yourself! Well, you like I said, you already have a computer extension of yourself in your phone! You know, and computers and stuff!

So, and now online—it's like somebody dies, there's this—like an online ghost! That they're still their online stuff!

Yeah! It’s alive! That's a good way to put it! It is weird when you read someone's tweets after they're dead! Yeah!

Yeah! Instagram and their stories and stuff! Yeah! Whatever! Facebook inside! You know like that's a great way to put it! It's like an online ghost! That's very accurate!

Yeah! So, yeah! So there's—it would just be that, that more of you would be in the cloud, I guess, than in your body! More of it! More of you! Whoa!

Now, when you say civilization's fragile, do you mean because of this COVID-19 [__] that's going on right now?

What's that? I've never heard of it! It's this thing! Yeah! No, it's like, uh, some people just get a card! Other people, it gets much worse!

Uh, sure! Yeah, well, out of nowhere! That's what's crazy! It's like you go back to November, nothing! Now here we are! December, January, February, March, April, May—six months totally different world!

So from nothing to everything's locked down! There's so much, uh, conflicting information and conflicting opinions about how to proceed! What has happened? You—you find things where there was a meatpacking plant, I believe in Missouri, where 300 plus people were asymptomatic tested positive or asymptomatic!

And then in other places it just ravages entire communities and kills people! And it's—it’s so weird! It almost appears on the out—like if you didn't know any better, you'd be like, "What? It seems like there's a bunch of different viruses!"

It doesn't seem like it's the same thing or has a bunch of different reactions to the biological variety of people!

Um, I mean I kind of saw this whole thing play out in China before it played out in the US! So, um, it's kind of like watching the same movie again but in English! Um, so yeah!

Um, I might—I think the—the mortality rate is much less than what is—than what say the World Health Organization said it was!

It's very much modular assets! Like probably at least an order of magnitude less! Well, it seems to be very deadly to very specific kinds of people and people with specific problems!

Yeah! I mean if you're—you can look at the mortality statistics, you know, by age and whether they have comorbities, like do they have like basically existing conditions and um, by age!

Um, and, uh, you know if you're below 60 and have no serious health issues, the probability of death is extremely low! It's not zero, but it's extremely low!

They didn't think that this was the case though when they first started to lock down the country! Do you think that it's a situation where once they've proceeded in a certain way, it's very difficult to correct course?

It's almost like people really wanted a panic that—you know, uh, quite—quite crazy! But in some places, a panic is deserved! Right?

Like if you're in the ICU in Manhattan and people are dying left and right and everyone's on intubators and it's—it’s—it seems like when you see all these people on ventilators and so many of them are dying and you see these nurses are dying and doctors are getting sick, in some places that fear is justified!

But then in other places, you're reading these stories about hospitals that are essentially half empty! They’re—they're having to furlough doctors and nurses because there's no work for them!

Most of the hospitals in the United States right now are half empty! In some cases, they’re at 30% capacity! And is this because they've decided to forego elective procedures and and normal things that people would have to go to the hospital for?

Yes! I mean we’re not talking about just some of these elective procedures are quite important! Like it's like you have about a lot of disease!

Yeah, sure! And you need a, you know, triple bypass! It's like sort of elective, but if you don't get it done in time, you’re gonna die!

Yeah! Elective is a weird word! Yeah, elective—it’s not like, hey I want to! It's not like plastic surgery! It's more like like my hip is—I’m in extreme pain because my hip is blown out or my knee and I don't want to go to the hospital! I can't go to the hospital to, you know!

People in extreme pain! People that need a kidney! You know, like people that have like quite serious issues that are choosing not to go out of fear!

Um, so I think it's a problem! It's not good! It seems like the state of public perception is shifting! It is! Like people are taking some deep breaths and relaxing, and because of the statistics of—I mean and essentially across the board, it's being recognized that it's not as fatal as we thought it was!

Still dangerous! Still worse than the flu, but not as bad as we thought or we feared it could be!

I mean objectively, the mortality is much lower! At least a factor of 10! Maybe a factor of 50 lower than initially thought! Do you think that the current way we're handling this, the social distancing, the masks, the locking down—is it—does this make sense?

Is it adequate? Or do you think that we should move back to at least closer to where we used to be?

Well, I think proper hygiene is a good thing no matter what! You know, wash your hands! And you know if you're—if you're coughing stay home or wear a mask, this is not good!

You know, like they do that in Japan, that's like normal! If you're if you're ill, you wear a face mask and you don't cough on people! I think that would be a great thing to to adopt in general throughout the world!

Um, washing your hands is also good! Well, that's the speculation why men get it more than women! Because men are disgusting!

And we don't wash that. Disgusting! It's true! It's true! Yeah, we’re all my men in this room, we’re all gross! Yeah, let's go to the restroom, you can see us—yes, we're gross!

My daughter—my nine-year-old daughter yells at me! She goes, "Did you wash your hands?" She makes me go back and wash my hands! Hmm, she's right! Nine years old!

If I had a nine-year-old boy, do you think he would care? I wouldn't give a [__] if I washed my hands! True!

Um, so yeah, I think that there’s definitely some silver linings here than in improved hygiene! Yeah! And an awareness of potential!

Yes! And I think this has shaken up the system—a system is like somewhat more bond with the layers of bureaucracy!

And I think that we've cut through some of that bureaucracy! Uh, and if we—you know, at some point there probably will be a pandemic with a high mortality rate!

Debate about like what's high! But I mean like, if you've got like Ebola type of mortality—Spanish flu, something that attacks immune systems of healthy people!

Yeah! Um, yeah! But it’s a—yeah, like killing large numbers of young healthy people—that’s, you know, define that as like a high mortality!

Then this is at least practice for something like that! Um, and I think there's this, you know, given it’s just a matter of time that there will be eventually some such pandemic!

Do you think that in a sense the one good thing that we might get out of this is the realization that this is a potential reality? That we—we got lucky in this sense!

I mean, in people that didn't get lucky and died, of course, I'm not disrespecting their death and their loss! But I'm saying overall as a culture, as a community, as a human race, this is not as bad as it could have been!

This is a good dry run for us to appreciate that we need far more resources dedicated towards the understanding of these diseases, what to do in the case of a pandemic!

And much more money that goes to funding treatments and some preventative measures? Yeah absolutely!

And I think I think there's a good chance! It's highly likely! I think coming out of this that we will develop vaccines that we didn't have before for coronavirus and other viruses!

Um, and possibly cures for these and our understanding of viruses of this nature has improved dramatically because of the attention that it's received!

So there's definitely some, you know, a lot of silver linings here! Um, and potentially if we act correctly! Yeah!

Yeah! Yeah! There's—I think there will be some amounts of lighting here no matter what! Hopefully it can be more positive lighting than less!

Yeah! Um, so yeah, this is—this is uh, it's like kind of like a practice run for something that had the potential that might in the future have a serious, like a really high mortality rate!

And we kind of got to go through this with—without it being something that kills, you know, vast numbers of young healthy people!

Yeah, when you made a series of tweets recently, uh, you know, I don't remember the exact wording but essentially you were saying free America now! Like, let’s think about that!

Is it—thank you! But, uh, the—the, you know, what was the—how much do you pay attention to the response to that stuff? And what was the response like? Did anybody go, "Hey Elon, what the [__]? You doing?"

Did anybody pull you aside? Who does that? Who gets to do that to you? Well, I mean I certainly get that there's no shortage of negative feedback on Twitter! You know?

Oh yeah! Twitter! Yeah, but I don’t read that! Do you read it? Warzone! You do sometimes though, right? You do read it!

Yeah, I mean scroll through the comments like as a meme warzone! Yeah! I mean people knife you’re good—it’s something I enjoy about that!

Just the—there’s a something about the—there is this freedom of expression that comes from all these people that do attack you! It’s like, well, if there was no vulnerability whatsoever, they wouldn’t attack you!

And it’s like there’s something about these millions and millions of perspectives that you—you have to appreciate—even if it comes your way.

Even if the [__] storm hits you in the face! Sure, you gotta appreciate! Wow! How amazing is it that all these people do have the ability to express themselves?

You don’t—don’t necessarily want to be there when the [__] hits you, sure. You might want to get out of the way in anticipation of the [__] storm!

But the fact that so many people have the ability to reach out and—I think it’s in a lot of ways it’s, uh—I don't wanna say a misused resource, but it's like giving monkeys guns!

They just start—they start gunning down things that in front of them without any realization of what they're doing! They have a rock! They see a window! They throw it! Whoa! Look at that!

I got Elon mad! Look at that! This guy got mad at me! This, this—I [__] took this person down on Twitter! I got this lady fired!

Oh, the [__] business is going under because of Twitter wars! It seems like there's something about it that's this newfound thing that, uh, I want to say abuse but just—I want to say that it’s almost like, you know, you hit the button and things blow up! You're like, "Wow! This is what else can we blow up?"

Sure! Um, I mean I’ve been in the Twitter war zone for a while here, so. Put your war zone! You know, it takes a lot to phase me at this point!

Yeah, that’s good too, right? Like you develop a thick skin! Yeah! You can’t take it personally! These people don't like actually know you! You know?

Like yeah, it’s just like, you know, so it's like if you're if you're fighting a war and there's like some opposing soldier that shoots at you—it's not like they hate you! They don't even know you!

Right? Yeah! So just think of it like that! Like they're firing bullets or whatever! Um, but they don't know you, so don't take it personally!

There's something interesting about it too! It's like, uh, like when you write something in, you know, 280 characters and they write something into it!

It's such a crude way! It's like you know someone's saying—sending opposing smoke signals that refute your smoke signals! It's like it's so crude!

And especially when you're talking about something like Neuralink, he’s talking about some future potential where you're going to be able to express pure thoughts that get conveyed through some sort of a universal language with no ambiguity whatsoever versus, you know, tweets!

Well there'll always be some ambiguity! But yeah, tweets are hard! Um, the maybe there should be like a sarcasm flag or something, you know? Right?

Right! Or "I'm not—you know, just kidding!" Or whatever, you know, like don't—you know? It seems like it would take away some of the fun from people that know it's sarcasm!

Like if everybody knew that the onion wasn't real! If you sent people articles! Yeah! Is there something about someone getting angry at an onion article?

Wow, that's amazing! You know what I mean? Where they don’t realize what it is! There’s something fun about that for everybody else!

Uh, yeah, I know! It's pretty great! It might be the best news source! Do you know who Titania McGrath is?

Hilarious! It’s—Andrew Boyle! He’s a, uh, a British fellow, a brilliant guy who’s been on the podcast before! And he has this, uh, fictional character, this pseudonym, Titania McGrath, who’s like this—the ultimate social justice warrior!

Is this like a female avatar? A female avatar that's actually a computer conglomeration of a bunch of faces!

Okay! It's not really one person, so one person can't be a victim and be angry! He’s sort of combined these faces to make this one perfect social justice warrior!

Okay! But the thing like I recognized it early on before I met him, sure, that this was parody! This was just fun!

And then I love reading the people that don't recognize that! They get angry! Sure! And then they're really, really like—there's a lot of people that just get really furious!

Sure! About some of some fun to that! There’s some fun to the not picking up on the true nature of the signal! I find Twitter quite engaging!

How do you have the time? Well, I mean, it’s like five minutes every couple hours type of thing! It’s not like I’m sitting on an old day!

But even five minutes every couple hours, if those are bad five minutes, they might be bouncing around your head for the next thirty!

Yeah! You have to, you know, like I said, take a certain amount of distance from—you read this and you're like, "Okay, it's bullets being fired by an opposing army!"

You know, don’t like it! It’s not like they, they like—so it’s not like they know you! It’s like don’t take it personally!

Did you feel the same way when CNN had that stupid [__] about ventilators with you?

I found that both confusing and the—the, yeah, that was annoying! It was annoying! But what is also annoying as a person who reads CNN and wants to think of them as a responsible conveyor of the facts—I would like to think that!

Yeah! I don't think CNN is that! I think it used to be! It used to be, yeah! Um, like what do you think's the best source of just like information out there?

That's a good question! You know, like let's say you're just like an average citizen trying to just get the facts, you know, figure out what's going on!

Like, you know, how to live your life and, you know, just looking for what’s going on in the world! It's hard to find something that isn't, you know, that's—that's good!

Yeah! You know, uh, that you know, not trying to push some partisan angle! Not trying to—not—not sort of doing sloppy reporting and just aiming for the most number of clicks and trying to maximize ad dollars!

And that kind of thing! Yeah! You're just trying to figure out what's going on! It's like I'm hard pressed! Where do you go?

I don't know! I don't think there's any pure form! My favorite places are the New York Times and the LA Times and I don't trust them 100%!

You know, because also there's individuals that are writing these stories! Exactly! And that seems to be the problems—these individual biases and these individual—there's purposely distorted perceptions!

And then there's ignorantly reported facts! And there's so many variables! And you got to put everything through this filter of where is this person coming from?

Do they have political biases? Do they have social biases? Are they upset because of their own shortcomings? And they—are they projecting this into the story?

Sure! It's so hard! Yeah! I think like maybe just trying to find individual reporters that you think are good and kind of falling down as opposed to the publication!

I go with whatever Matt Taibbi says! Okay! I trust him more than anybody! Alright, Matt Taibbi! He’s onto something!

I just—he’s, as far as investigative reporters in particular, the way he reported the savings and loan crisis, the way he reports everything—I just—I just listen to him above most, above most!

He’s my go-to guy! Alright! I'll check it out! Uh, it's Rolling Stone’s articles or his stuff on the Savings and Loan crisis—just like, "What in the [__]?"

And, you know, and he wasn't—he’s not an economist by any stretch of the imagination! So he had to really sort of deeply embed himself in that world to try to understand it and to be able to report on it!

And was also with a humorous flair! For now, that's nice! Yeah!

Um, yeah! But it's not that many of them! There's—it's hard! And not a location where like we are No [__]!

That's right, you know! We are NoBullshit.com! Like the one place where you can say, "This is what we know, this is what we don't know, this is what we think!"

Not this person's wrong and here's why! Like, oh god damn it! You know, I can't—you don’t know!

There's a lot of stuff that is open to interpretation! Yeah, this coronavirus issue that we're dealing with right now seems to be a great illuminator of that very fact!

Is that there's so much data and there's so much that's open to interpret—there's so many thing because it’s all happening in real time! Right!

And like particularly right now in California, we're in Stage Two! Tomorrow, or Friday, two days from now, Stage Two! Retail stores opening up!

Things are changing! Like when no one knows the correct process that needs to take place to save the most amount of lives but yet ensure that our culture and that our economy survives!

It's a lot of speculation and guessing! But if you go to certain places, they'll tell you we know why, and we know this, and we know that!

It's hard! Yeah!

I mean I—I in general, I think that's like we should be concerned about, um, anything that's a massive infringement on our civil liberties! Yes!

You know, so it's like you got to put a lot of weight on that! Um, you know, people—a lot of people died to, you know, win independence, win this country!

And—fight for the democracy that we have, and, uh, you know, we should treasure that and not—and not give up our liberties too easily!

I think we've—we—I mean, I think we probably did that actually! Well, I like what you said when you said that it should be a choice!

And that to require people to stay home! Require people to not go to work! Require them to—to arrest people for trying to make a living!

This all seems wrong! And I think it's a wrong approach! It's a—you're—you're—it's an infantilization of the society! That daddy's going to tell you what to do!

Fundamentally a violation of the Constitution! Yeah! Freedom of assembly! And you know, it's just, I mean, I don't think these things stand up in court really!

They're arresting people for protesting? Yeah! Yeah! Because they're protesting and violating social distancing! And these mandates that tell people that they have to stay home!

Yeah! These would definitely not stand up, you know, if the Supreme Court—here, I mean it’s obviously a complete violation! Right?

Yeah! Yeah! And again this is not in any way, um, disrespecting the people who have died from this disease! That's certainly a real thing to think of!

Yeah! I mean it— it just should be if you're at risk, you should not be compelled to leave your house, right?

Or leave a place of safety! But you should also not be, uh, if you're not at risk or if you are at risk and you wish to take a risk with your life, you should have the right to do that!

And it seems like at this point in time particularly our resources would be best served protecting the people that are at risk versus penalizing the people that are not at high risk for living their life the way they did!

Particularly having a career and and making a living and feeding your family, paying your bills, keeping your store open, keeping your restaurant open!

Yes! I mean there's a there's a strong a strong downside to this! Yeah, so yeah, I just believe like you know if this is a free country you should be, you know, allowed to do, you know, what you want as long as it does not endanger others!

But that's the thing! Right? People—this is the argument they will bring up! Like you are endangering others! You should stay home for the people that—that you even if you're fine!

Even if you know you're gonna be okay, there's certain people that will not be okay because of your actions! They might get exposed to this thing that we don't have a vaccine for!

We don't have universally accepted treatment for! And then we need to ca—this is—there's two arguments! Right? The one argument is we need to keep going, protect the weak, protect the sick!

But let's open up the economy! The other argument is stop placing money over human lives and let's shelter in place until we come up with some sort of a decision!

And let's figure out some way to develop some sort of universal income, universal basic income plan or something like that to feed people during the during this time when we make this transition!

I think there's a—yeah, um, as I said, right? Yeah, my opinion is if if somebody wants to stay home they should stay home and say something doesn't want to stay home, they should not be compelled to stay home. That's my opinion!

Do you think if somebody doesn't like that? Well, that's my opinion! Um, so the, now, yeah, um the—the this notion though that, uh, you know, you can just sort of send checks out everybody and and things will be fine, it's not true! Obviously!

Um, the there's some people have this absurd like a view that the economy is like some magic horn of plenty! Like it—it just makes stuff! Stuff? You know, whatever it just, there’s a magic quarter plenty!

And the goods and services, they just come from this magic corner plenty! And then if, um, like if somebody has more stuff than somebody else because they took more from this magic corner plenty?

Now let me, uh, just break it to, uh, the fools out there, if you don’t make stuff, there is no stuff! Yeah!

So if you don't make the food, if you don't process the food, you know, transport the food, and what the—whether you know, medical treatment getting getting your teeth fixed, there's no stuff!

I become detached from reality! You can't just legislate money and solve these things! If you don't make stuff, there is no stuff!

Obviously, we'll run out of the stores, run out of the—you know, it's the whole—the machine just grinds to a halt! But the initial thought on this virus, the real fear was that this was going to kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people!

Instantaneously in this country! It was going to do it very quickly if we didn't hunker down! If we didn't shelter in place! If we didn't quarantine ourselves or lock down!

Do you think that the initial thought was a good idea based on the perception that this was going to be far more deadly than it turned out to be?

Maybe! I think briefly! Briefly! Briefly! But I think if you know any any kind of like sensible examination of what happened in China would lead to the conclusion that that is obviously not going to occur!

Uh,

Death. I'm like, okay, they coughed before they died. In fact, they're not even diagnosed with COVID. They simply, if you had weakness, a cough, shortness of breath, but frankly, I'm not sure how you die without those things. Yeah, you.

But there's so many different things that you could attribute to COVID too. There's so many symptoms: there's diarrhea, headaches, dehydration, cough. Yes, but to be clear, you don’t even need to have gotten a COVID diagnosis. You simply need to have had one of many symptoms and then have died for some reason and it’s COVID. So then it makes the death count look very high. And then we’re then stuck in a bind because it looks like the death count's super high and not going down like it should be.

Now, we should keep whatever, you know, keep the shelter-in-place stuff there and keep people in their homes, you know, confined. People to homes. So we need to break out of this. We’re stuck in a loop.

Yeah, and I think the way to break out of this loop is to have clarity of information. Clarity of information will certainly help, but altering perceptions, public perception from people that are basically in a panic. There's a lot of—essentially, well, at least a month ago, we were clearly in a panic. I mean, right? When you look around April 5th, April 6th, people were really freaking out. But here we are, May, and people are relaxing a little bit. Yes, they're realizing like, hey, I actually know a couple of people that got it. It was just a cough. And I know some people that got it where nothing happened. I know a lot of people have got it. I know zero people who died.

I mean, about, no. Yeah, a lot of people got it. Yeah, it's not what we feared. We feared something much worse.

Yeah, that's correct. So the adjustment's difficult to make. So you said first of all we need real data. We need to just parse out the data. Don't lump it all together. No. If you give people just parse out the data better, clearer information about, like I said, was this an actual COVID diagnosis or did they get the test and the test came back positive? Or do they just have some symptoms? Just parse those two out.

And then parse out, just if somebody died, did they die? Did they even have a COVID test? Or did they just have one of many symptoms? Like, how do you die without weakness? I don't know, right? It's impossible, basically.

Yeah, it's a good point. If you're gonna die, you're gonna have shortness of breath, weakness, you might cough a little. So was it quantified? What was it? Yeah, that person, did they actually have a COVID test, and did the test come back positive? And then, if they died, did they die where COVID was—it didn't have to be the main course, but it was a significant contributor to their death? Or was it not a significant contributor to the death?

Right, it's not as simple as just because you had COVID, COVID killed you. Definitely not.

Right. Yeah, I mean, people die all the time and they have flu and, yes, you know, other colds. And we don't say that they died of those flu and other colds. Well, that's what's so weird. Absolutely. It's so prevalent, and I use that word in a weird way, but it's so prevalent that we've kind of forgotten people die of pneumonia every day.

Yeah, people die of the flu. It didn't take a break. Oh, COVID's got this, I'm gonna sit this one out. I'm gonna be on the bench. I'm gonna wait until COVID's done before I jump back into the game of killing people. No, the flu is still here killing people. I mean, every year in the world, several hundred thousand people die directly of the flu.

Yeah, not tangentially, right? Not every year, 61,000 in this country last year. Yeah, and we're only five percent of the world. And then there's cigarettes. Oh man, cigarettes? Not cigarettes will really kill you.

That's a weird one, right? We're terrified of this disease that was projected could potentially kill 100, if not 200,000 Americans this year, with cigarettes killing 500,000. And you don't hear a peep out of any politician. There's no one running for Congress who's trying to ban cigarettes. There's no one running for Senate that wants to put some education plan in place that's going to stop cigarettes in their tracks.

Yeah, I mean, a long time, like several years ago, I mean, along with 10 years ago, I helped make a movie called Thank You for Smoking.

Oh, I saw that!

Yeah. Um, it’s crazy. Smoking, barbecuing, alongside just bad news. It’s not good. You’re turning your lungs into smoke—smoked beef? Not great.

Um, yeah, Tylenol, by the way, also kills a lot of people.

Yeah, what is the number for Tylenol over here?

Um, I’m not sure the exact number, but I believe it—until the opioid crisis, I believe Tylenol was the number one killer of all drugs.

Um, because, wow. Basically, it’s if you get drunk and take a lot of Tylenol, acetaminophen essentially, it causes liver failure. So, people would like get wasted and then like have a headache and then pop a Tylenol.

Whoa.

Yeah, curtains! Is a funny word!

Yeah, you know, so but nobody’s like, you know, raging against Tylenol.

Yeah, it’s weird. Acceptable deaths are weird and that's the real slippery slope about this—people shaming people for wanting to go back to work. You know, other people are gonna die. Well, if you drive, do you drive? Oh well, you should stop driving because people die from driving. So, you know, you definitely should fill up all the swimming pools because like 50 people die every day in this country from swimming. So let’s not swim anymore.

Yeah, what is really dangerous? We need to chop down all the coconuts—coconuts kill 150 people every year.

Yes, cut down all the coconut trees! We need those people!

Yes, at a certain point in time, it’s like we, yeah, we’re vulnerable and we’re also—we have a finite existence no matter what we do. Nobody lives forever.

Right. I mean, the—the—I mean, I think you want to look at say deaths as like the—but for this disease, whatever—they would have lived X number of years.

Yeah. You know, so, um, you know, if somebody dies when they’re 20 and could live until 80, they lost 60 years. But if somebody dies when they’re 80 and they might live until 81, they last one year.

Yes, so it’s like how many life years were lost is probably, you know, the right metric to use. I don’t—read my own comments, but I do read other people’s comments and I was reading this one little Twitter beef that was going on where someone was saying that COVID takes an average of 10 years off people’s lives and we should appreciate those 10 years. And then someone else said that’s not true.

I’m sure it's not true.

Yeah, definitely. It’s Twitter.

But someone else said the average age of people who die from COVID is older than the average age people die.

It’s very—let’s say just say it’s like, it’s about the same. That’s a beautiful way of looking at it.

I mean it’s unfortunate, it sucks. But it sucks if grandpa dies of Alzheimer's or emphysema or leukemia. It sucks. Sure, it sucks when someone you love dies.

Yes, but I’m—I mean actually if this— I think a lesson to be taken here that I think is quite important is that if you have, you know, your great grandparents and their age and grandparents, really be careful with any kind of flu or cold or something that wouldn’t be dangerous to kids or young adults but is dangerous to help the elderly.

If basically if your kids got a runny nose, they should stay away from their grandparents, no matter what it is. It’s the things that are where a young immune system has no problem and an older one has a problem.

Yeah, and in fact, a lot of the deaths are just—are literally, it’s tragic, but they’re intra-family. The little, little kid had it, had a cold or flu and gave it to grandpa.

Yeah, they have the family gathering and they don’t know that this is a big deal, but it’s just important to remember when you get older your immune system is just not that strong.

And so just be careful with your loved ones or elderly. And I think there is some true objective understanding of the immune system and the ways to boost that immune system. And I really think that that information should be distributed in a way, a non-judgmental way, but like look, this is a scientifically proven way that we can all—this is a way that we can all boost our immune system and it might save your life and it might save the life of your loved ones.

And maybe we could teach this to our grandparents and our parents and people that are vulnerable. You know, vitamin C, heat shock proteins, all these different variables that we know contribute to a stronger immune system.

Um, actually just, um, a thing that is tough—if, like, when you as you get older, it’s hard to be—you pretend to put on weight. You know, I certainly—that’s happening with me. You know, like the older I get, I’m like damn, it’s harder to stay lean, that’s for sure.

Um, and so actually, being overweight is a big deal.

Yeah, just, uh, it’s a fact.

Well, yeah, the New York hospital said it was the number one factor for severe COVID symptoms was obesity. That was the number one factor.

It is! That’s, yes, exactly. But it’s also we live in a world where people want to be sensitive to other people’s feelings. So, yeah, absolutely, we don’t want to bring up the fact that being fat’s bad for you.

It’s a judgment on your food!

It’s great.

Yeah, I do love food.

Yeah! And I mean, I mean to be totally frank, I mean speaking for myself, I’d rather eat tasty food and live a shorter life.

Yeah, you know? Those moments of enjoying a great meal—yeah.

And then even talking about—they're valuable. They’re worth something.

Yeah. It’s not—we don’t want to eat Soylent Green and live to be 160.

Tasty! If it was great!

One of the best things about life, it really is.

Yeah, it’s an art form as well. It’s like fine food. It’s a delicious sandcastle. It’s temporary, it doesn’t last very long, but there’s something about it that’s very pleasing.

Yeah!

Um, yeah, I mean, I don’t know what advice to give. Like um, maybe smaller, have tasty food with smaller amounts of it?

Yeah!

And I think regulated feeding windows are really the way to go—some sort of an intermittent fasting approach.

Sure! When I started doing that, I found myself to be quite a bit healthier. When I deviated from that, I’ve gained weight.

So, what’s—what’s uh?

16 hours.

Well, 16 hours?

Yeah, so like at night, or, yeah?

Yeah, yeah, so I get to a certain point and then I count out—I usually hit the stopwatch on my phone and then I look at 15 hours and I’m like, okay, got an hour before I can eat!

Yeah, and so anything in between that is just water or coffee.

Actually, you know, like, um, this may be a useful bit of advice for people, but eating before you go to bed is a real bad idea and actually negatively affects your sleep.

Yeah.

Um, and it can actually cause heartburn that you don’t even know is happening and—and that subtle heartburn affects your sleep because you’re horizontal and your body's digesting.

So if you want to improve the quality of your sleep, um, and, and, um, you know, uh, you know, be healthier, uh, it’s do not eat right before we go to sleep.

Yeah, it’s like one of the worst things.

You could do.

I had some of the biggest mistakes I’ve ever made—I’ve—I've done that. Particularly after comedy shows, I’m starving. I’ll come home and I’ll eat, and then I go to bed and I just feel like [ __ ] and I wake up in the middle of the night.

It’s gonna crush your sleep! And it’s gonna damage your pyloric sphincter and your esophagus.

And it’s—it’s—so, in fact, drinking and then going to sleep is—that’s one of the worst things you could—yes.

Um, so, uh, just try to avoid drinking and, and, you know, um, small amounts of alcohol—that evidence suggests it’s not—it doesn’t have a negative effect.

I put it in the same category as delicious food. It kind of makes things a little more fun.

Yeah!

I like it! I mean some of the people—some of the people who have lived the longest, you know, um, there’s a woman in France who I think maybe has the record or close to it and she had a glass of wine every day.

Every day!

You know?

Yeah, small amounts is fine!

Um, but, um, yeah, this is like a—I learned this like quite late in life, it’s like just avoid having alcohol and avoid eating at least two or three hours before going to sleep and your quality of life will—your quality of sleep will improve and your general health will improve a lot. For sure!

This is a—it’s a big deal and I think not widely, not widely known.

Do you have time to exercise?

Um, a little bit.

Um, do you train or anything?

Um, I do, although I haven’t seen for a while. But, um, yeah, especially, yeah, from out like, uh, you know, say we’re working on Starship or something in South Texas and I’m just living in my—they got a little house there in Boca Chica village.

Um, and I don’t have much to do, so we’re like, I’m working and I was like, dude, just lift some weights or something, you know?

Um, maybe—I like—I don’t—some people love running, I don’t love running.

Um, but what do you like to do exercise-wise?

Um, too totally frank, I wouldn’t exercise at all if I could, but if I’m going to exercise and, you know, lift some weights and, um, and then kind of run on the treadmill and maybe watch a show that, you know, if there’s a compelling show that like pulls you in.

Right, right, right!

Yeah, that’s a good thing to do.

Yeah, watch a good movie or—

Yeah. Yeah, episode of Black Mirror or something like that!

That’s great, man.

Don’t watch Black Mirror before going to bed either!

Well, don’t watch Black Mirror today! It’s too [ __ ] accurate!

Yeah, exactly. It's like, wait, this already happened in real life!

Yeah, they're too close!

Well, even, didn't Jamie say that the guy who makes Black Mirror, Mike Store?

Yeah!

Yeah, he said it’s not a good time to start Season Six!

Yeah! He wants to hold off because reality—he’s nailed it—it's Black Mirror!

Oh man, it’s like he’s gonna have to, like, reassess and— and attack it from a different angle!

Yeah!

You should try something that’s fun to do that’s not just like, like learn a martial art or something like that!

I did martial arts when I was a kid!

Did you?

I did Taekwondo, I did karate—Kaika Shrinkai!

Alright, cool!

And, um, judo!

Um, also, you—you really branched out!

Yeah! Um, so, um, and did Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu briefly! Did you?

Yeah, where I made in Palo Alto!

Really?

Yeah!

Oh no [ __ ]! I was gonna suggest that!

That’s a great thing for people!

Like that’s the thing about Jiu-Jitsu. If you look at it from the outside, you think, oh, a bunch of meatheads strangling each other. Sure!

But they’re some of the smartest people I know, or Jiu-Jitsu fiends, because they first of all get introduced to it because usually either they want to exercise or learn some self-defense, but then they realize that it’s essentially like a language with your body.

Like, you’re having an argument with someone with some sort of a physical language and it’s really complex! And the more access to vocabulary and the sharper your words are—

Sure!

The more you’ll succeed in these ventures.

That’s really also an accurate analogy of what Jiu-Jitsu is!

Yeah! I mean I kind of, I mean probably like a lot of people, for the way—uh, early day—the first MMA fights and Royce Gracie and he was like incredible, and it was like just like technique.

Yeah, yeah!

It was like, you know, winning against people way bigger and that kind of thing.

It’s just like, oh, this is cool!

It was what martial arts were supposed to be when we were as we were kids.

Yeah!

When you saw Bruce Lee [ __ ] up all these big giant guys like, wow! Martial arts allow you to beat someone far bigger and stronger than you, right?

Most of the time that’s not real.

Especially if they know martial arts too! It’s like, oh, no!

Yes!

But in UFC when Royce Gracie, off of his back, was strangling Dan Severn with his legs, he was like, holy [ __ ]!

Yeah!

This guy's being pinned by this big giant wrestler, and he wraps his legs around his neck and chokes him to the point that the guy has to surrender!

Yeah, amazing!

Yeah! It was amazing! I mean, Royce got beaten up pretty bad in some of those.

He did!

Well he definitely had some rough fights, but he won! He won!

Yeah, he’s a legend!

But what it showed, in—I mean, I’m a huge lover of Jiu-Jitsu. What it showed is that there is a method for diffusing these situations with technique and knowledge.

Yeah!

And I think it’s also a great way to exercise too because it’s almost like the exercise is secondary to the learning of the thing.

The exercise is like—you want to develop strength and conditioning just so that you could be better at doing the thing!

And the analogy that I use is like, if you imagine if you had a race car and you could actually give the race car better handling and more horsepower just from your own focus and effort.

Sure, that's really what it’s like!

Yeah!

When am I going to have my, my kids?

I should say I sent my kids to Jiu-Jitsu since they were like, I don’t know, six.

Oh really?

Yeah, oh that’s awesome!

Yeah! It’s a great thing to learn! It really is!

Seems like a good, yes!

Yeah! Maybe something like—I mean even if you just have someone who holds the pads for you, like you get a workout in—and it’d be fun!

When am I going to be able to buy one of them Roadsters? When’s that happening?

Well, I can’t, you know, say exactly when, but we’ve gotta get—you know, this COVID thing’s kind of throwing us for a loop, I’m sure.

Um, so um, not to blame everything on COVID, but, um, it’s, you know, certainly set us back on progress for, you know, some number of months.

The—I mean things we’ve got to get done ahead of Roadster are ramping up Model Y production.

Um, that'll be a great, great car!

It is a great car!

Getting the Berlin Gigafactory built and, and also building Y, getting expanding the Shanghai factory, which is going great.

And, um, get the—you know, there’s the Cybertruck, Semi truck, Roadster.

Um, Roadster’s kind of like dessert, so like we, we gotta get the—eating potatoes and greens and stuff, you know?

Like, but Roadster comes before Cybertruck.

I mean, I think we should do Cybertruck first before—before Roadster.

Before Roadster? Interesting!

I’m not mad at that!

Some other things for Roadster. They’re, you know, the tri-motor, plaid powertrain.

We’re gonna have that in Model S, so that’s like part one of the ingredients that’s needed for Roadster.

The plaid powertrain, the more advanced bat, you know, battery vacuum kind of thing. I wanted to ask you about this before I forgot. There’s a company that’s called Apex is taking your Teslas and they're giving it a wider base and wider tires and a little bit more advanced suspension.

Sure!

How do you feel about that? Are you guys—do you work with them? Are you cool with those people?

Yeah, I mean, just—I’m off, yeah, go ahead.

They’re jazzing stuff up with carbon fiber and doing a bunch of interior choices. You’re cool with it?

You can’t [ __ ] with that! You don’t have time! So is it good that someone comes along and has a sort of specialty operation?

Yeah! I got no problem!

That’s what it’s called, right? It’s like JMG? Is it called Apex?

Yeah, I gotta unplug performance.

Is Apex?

Yeah, you could for sure, um, you know, lighten the car up and, uh, improve tire traction.

And have—have you seen that company’s stuff? What they do?

I don't know specifically, but there’s—it’s pretty dope.

Yeah, they make a pretty dope-looking—they take Model S and they widen it and give it a bunch of carbon fiber.

That’s it right there! That looks pretty nice!

Yeah, it does!

Now the, the plaid version of the Model S—are you going to widen the track and do a bunch of different—I know you guys are testing at the Nurburgring.

Can you not talk about that?

Well, I think we gotta leave that for, you know, proper sort of product unveil.

I understand!

Yeah!

I understand.

Um, last time you were here you convinced me to buy a Tesla. I bought it and it’s [ __ ] insane!

Oh great! Glad you like it!

Um, I don’t—it’s not just pretty fun. It’s like I—the way I’ve described it is it makes other cars seem stupid!

They just seem dumb!

Like, I love dumb things! I love dumb cars!

Like, I love campfires!

Yeah!

I have a 1993 Porsche that’s air-cooled.

Sure!

It’s like, re—it’s not that fast! It’s really slow compared to the Tesla!

Yeah!

Really?

So it’s really quite slow!

Yeah, but there’s something engaging about the mechanical—this is like the gears—and it’s very, it’s very analog!

But it’s so stupid in comparison to the Tesla!

Like when I want to go somewhere in the Model S, I hit the gas and it just goes!

Yeah!

It just—it like violates time!

Yeah, yeah!

Um, yeah, you've tried it like ludicrous plus and stuff?

Yeah, yeah, cool!

Oh yeah!

We did just a software update where it'll do it like a cheetah stance, so, uh, yeah, so it’s—it’s got a dynamic air suspension so it lowers the back!

Oh Jesus!

Yeah, just like, uh, like a sprinter basically, right?

Like what do you do if you're a sprinter? You're going to hunker down and then—

So I shaved like a tenth of a second off zero to—

I mean, like, you know, it is pretty fun!

It’s so—but I’ve taken so many people and I’m like, I take them for the holy [ __ ] moment!

I’m like, you ready? Like, hang on!

And then I stomp on the gas!

I've never felt anything like it!

It’s confusing!

Yeah, it really is!

The instant torque! The instant torque and just the sheer acceleration is baffling!

It’s baffling!

They’ve never felt it!

No, it’s faster than falling!

Yeah!

It’s crazy!

It’s so fast!

It’s a roller coaster!

Yeah! And my family yells at me when I stomp the gas!

Like, um, I tell my kids, I’m like you want to feel it! You want to feel it? Like do it! Do it!

My wife’s like, don't do it!

Yeah!

And even if I just do it on the highway for a couple of seconds, that’s pretty exciting!

Yeah, it’s very—it’s like having a roller coaster on tap, you know?

It really is like a roller coaster on tap!

Yeah, without the loopty loops!

But it’s the—the pinning to your seat, it seems like you’re not supposed to be able to experience that from some sort of a, can you know, a consumer vehicle that you can just—a regular person could buy if you have the money!

It seems too crazy!

And then the idea of this Roadster is a half of a second faster than that.

Yeah!

Yeah, that’s madness!

Well, if that Roadster, we’re going to do some things that are kind of unfair.

So we’re going to take some things from like, you know, from kind of like rocket world and put them on the car.

Oh, I read about that! Explain that! Like, what do you do?

Well, like I said, we can’t—

Oh, the product unveil right here!

But it’s gonna do some things that aren’t fair!

And then the—the when we do the unveil of the Roadster, let me just say that anyone who’s been waiting, they won’t be sorry!

It’s—they won’t be sorry!

Oh, I’m sure!

Well, anything that goes zero to sixty, what is it? 1.9? Is that the zero—0 to 60?

That’s the base model.

That’s good! What’s the top of the food chain model?

Okay, okay, faster than that!

Let’s just say faster!

Yeah, that seems so crazy to me.

Now, what was it like when the dude threw the steel balls at the window and they were supposed to not break and it broke?

Well, yeah, I mean I know any circumstances are, you know, you know that our demos are authentic.

[Laughter]

So I was not expecting that. And then I think I muttered under my breath.

You didn’t get mad though!

No, you didn’t Steve Jobs it!

Um, no, I-I definitely swore, uh, but you know I didn’t think the mic would pick it up but it did.

Um, and, uh, but so like we practiced this, you know, behind the scenes.

Yeah!

I would like—at Tesla, we don’t do—we don’t do like tons of practice for our demos because we’re working—we’re working on the cars, like we—you know, we’re building new technologies and improving the fundamental products.

So we’re not spending it like doing like hundreds of, you know, practice things or anything like that. We don’t have time for that!

Um, but the—the just hours before the demo, um, both Franz, uh, you know, uh, is head of design and and I were in the studio throwing steel balls at the window and it’s bouncing right off.

Um, and like, okay this seems pretty good! Seems like we got it!

Okay, um, and then we think what happened was that, um, when we—when Franz hit the the door with the sledgehammer, you know?

Sure!

Like, like this is—this is like, yeah, yeah, exoskeleton, you know, high strength hardened steel! You can literally take wind up with a sledgehammer, you know, full double-handed sledgehammer and hit the door and there’s not even a dent!

It’s cool!

But we think that that cracked the corner of the glass at the bottom and then once you crack the corner of the glass, that you just came over.

So, uh, then when you threw the ball, that’s what cracked the glass!

So it didn’t go through though?

It didn’t go through!

That’s true!

That’s true!

It didn’t shatter the whole thing like a regular window would either, which would just dissolve!

Yeah, right!

So in hindsight the ball should’ve been first, sledgehammer second!

Yeah!

You live, you learn!

Yeah, exactly!

Listen, man, we’ve taken up a lot of your time. You had a child!

Yeah, recently!

It’s amazing that you had the time to come down here and I really appreciate that.

I appreciate everything you do, man! I’m glad you’re out there and I really appreciate you coming down here and sharing your perspective!

Well, I think you got a great show! Thanks for having me on!

Thank you!

My pleasure!

My pleasure!

Elon Musk, ladies and gentlemen. Good night!

Alright, that should get a little play. That was great!