# Summary of Transcription
The discussion begins with the notion of continuity between heaven and Earth and the concept of a bodily Resurrection, where believers will live with Christ eternally. The speaker acknowledges that this raises intriguing questions about the interpretations of certain Biblical passages, particularly in the Gospel of John. They highlight the seemingly confusing remarks made by Jesus in John 14, specifically about His father's house having many rooms.

The conversation explores the phrase 'my father's house,' noting its first occurrence in John 2 where Jesus is addressing the temple. The speaker argues that modern Christians often neglect the significance of the temple, which is crucial in understanding Jesus' message. They suggest that Jesus is indicating that God is building a new temple within human beings who will house the Holy Spirit. Hence, interpreting Jesus’ words as merely implying that He is preparing a place in heaven for believers can be misleading. Instead, it centralizes the idea that God, through the Holy Spirit, will dwell within believers here on Earth.

The speaker makes clear that the passage in John 14:2 should not be taken solely to suggest a future expectation of going to heaven. Rather, it implies a present belonging to God's people, asserting that dwelling with Jesus and the Father is possible through the interaction of the Holy Spirit. The dense nature of the text calls for reflection and thoughtful engagement.

A notable point in the dialogue is the clarification of the term used in John 14 regarding dwelling places (often misinterpreted as 'mansions'). The original Greek suggests a temporary nature, indicative of a journey rather than a permanent residence. This idea connects back to the temple imagery, linking the physical structure in Jerusalem with the incarnate presence of Christ. Consequently, the speaker prompts a deeper examination of the relationship between divine and human dwelling through mutual indwelling, where Jesus desires believers to be in Him as He is in the Father.

Finally, the transition to John chapter 17 is mentioned, emphasizing its cosmic significance and the desire for divine unity among believers. The text serves as an overarching invitation to decipher the complexity within Jesus' teachings as they relate to the concept of belonging and the mutual relationship between God and humanity during the period post-Resurrection and pre-new creation.

N.T. Wright Clips

You did a beautiful job discussing the continuity of heaven and Earth being reunited, and our experiencing a mysterious bodily resurrection where we live with Christ forever.  However, some questions arise. I agree that the concept of the soul is a Platonic intrusion on the biblical mindset. Yet, Jesus says confusing things, like in John 14:  "In my Father's house are many rooms." If we have a bodily resurrection here on Earth, what is Jesus talking about?  I'm tempted to say Tim has a better answer, but let me offer a thought.

The phrase "my Father's house" appears twice (maybe more) in John.  One is the verse you quoted from John 14:2 ("In my Father's house are many rooms"). The other is in John 2, when Jesus is in the temple, driving out the money changers and animals being sold. Jesus says, "Do not make my Father's house a market."  "My Father's house" is a temple phrase. We modern Western Protestant Christians have tended to marginalize the temple—we shouldn't. It's significant. Jesus sees God the Father as already building the new Temple—human beings in whom the Holy Spirit dwells (as found throughout John and Paul). I'm not sure I can unpack all of that from John 14 immediately, but we misunderstand the text if we think it simply means Jesus is getting a place ready in heaven for us to join him.  Later in the chapter, he's explicit: if anyone loves me, they will keep my word, and my Father and I will come and make our home with that person. It's not about us going to be with Jesus elsewhere; it's about belonging to God's people now, even though Jesus is going away.  Jesus and the Father will come through the person and work of the Spirit and make their home with us.

John 14:1-6 is dense, and much Johannine literature is winding. You just have to wrestle with it. That's where I am.  Let's continue this discussion. Your observation about the Gospel of John is insightful: the phrase "house of my Father" first refers to the temple in chapter 2. Then, John whispers (from a post-resurrection standpoint), saying the temple was his body.  This is hugely significant.  The next appearance of the phrase in John 14 ("In my Father's house are many rooms")—the King James Version uses "mansions"—is misleading. The Greek doesn't mean a place to live forever; it means a temporary dwelling place, like pitching a tent.

If the temple in Jerusalem is what Jesus claimed, and John points to God in flesh in Jesus, then let's apply that to John 14: "In my Father's house are many places to take up residence." He then talks about his departure, but in verse 23, he says, "If anyone loves me and keeps my word, my Father will love him, and we will come and make our home with him."  Are the dwelling places in Jesus (because he is the temple), or is it about them taking up residence in me? These seem like polar opposites.

The way John designs this section (chapters 14-16) is a triad, with chapter 17 as an addition.  The final lines of John 17 are cosmic: "Father, you are in me, and I am in you; may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me." This needs a bookend.  The opening lines of 14 are a riddle; by the end of 17, we see the mutual indwelling of the divine and human in the Son and the Spirit. This is one way to talk about the post-Resurrection, pre-new creation period.


N.T. Wright and Tim Mackie Discuss “In My Father’s House…” (Temple Theology)

you did a beautiful job of talking about
this continuity and and the fact that
heaven and Earth are being reunited and
that we will experience a mysterious
bodily Resurrection whereby we live with
Christ forever but there are some
questions that are prompted there I
agree with you that there's the idea of
the soul is this kind of
platonic uh invasion of of the biblical
mindset and yet Jesus does say some
confusing things at the beginning of
John
14 um like you know the way to where I'm
going my father's house has many
rooms if we have a bodily Resurrection
here on Earth what is Jesus talking
about there I'm tempted to say I'm sure
Tim's got a better answer than this but
let me let me just do a little RI on
that the phrase my father's house occurs
twice I think in John maybe more but
I've got these two in mind that one that
you just quoted from John 14 um which is
in John 14:2 there is plenty of room to
stay in my father's house the previous
one is in John Chapter 2 when Jesus is
in the temple driving out the money
changers and the the animals who are
being sold and bought and so on and
Jesus says don't turn my father's house
into a market the phrase my father's
house is a temple phrase and we modern
Western Protestant Christians
particularly we tend we have tended to
marginalize the temple you heard me last
night I think say we shouldn't be doing
that this is really significant but the
the key thing is Jesus
sees uh God the father as already
building the new Temple the new Temple
which as we find throughout John but
also in Paul is the human beings in whom
the holy spirit is going to come and
dwell and I'm not sure can pause all of
that out from John 14 straight off the
top but there's something going on there
which means that we have misunderstood
the text if we think that it simply
means um Jesus is saying I'm going off
to heaven I'm getting a place ready and
you can come and join me because it's
very clear later in the chapter he's
quite explicit that if anyone loves me
they will keep my word and my father and
I will come and make our home with that
person um so that it isn't about about
us going to be with Jesus somewhere else
and that's it it's about um belonging to
God's people in the present and that
that's okay despite the fact that Jesus
himself is going away and that that will
then mean that that Jesus and the father
will come through the person and work of
the spirit and make their home with us
it's it's complicated John
14156 are among the densest texts in the
New Testament and it's so much Johan and
literature seems to go this way and that
and and you just have to stay with it
and and and wrestle but that's that's
where I am at the moment with that it's
great let's play tennis right now let's
just let's let's send this ball back and
forth so your observation was in the
Gospel of John the phrase uh the house
of my father is used first in the
pivotal program like program settings
story in chapter 2 where it refers to
the
temple but then John Whispers in the ear
of the reader
I think from a post-resurrection
standpoint and says the temple he was
talking about was his body yeah so we're
on this right so in my mind that is
hugely significant then for then the
next appearance of that phrase in John
14 in the house of my father there are
many rooms Dwelling Places is it King
James it's Mansions yeah yeah okay yeah
one of the one of the many
misleading deeply misle phrases I mean
the the Greek word there does not mean a
place you go to live forever it means a
temporary Dwelling Place pitching your
tent while you're on a journey somewhere
else so let's just follow the logic real
quick if I've been introduced to the
temple as a building in Jerusalem that
Jesus was claiming and then John
Whispers in our ear was pointing to the
reality of God in flesh in in the person
of Jesus then let's like try that on as
a definition for what he says in John 14
in the house of my father there are many
places to take up
residence and I wouldn't tell you if it
wasn't the case and then he talks about
this period of time where he's going
away and then like you were just noting
he picks it up right back down here in
verse 23 it says if anyone loves me and
keeps my word my father will love him
and we my father and I we will come to
do that one and well and here's the word
again take up residence make that person
a dwelling place so all of a sudden
you're like wait wait wait hold on are
The Dwelling Places in Jesus because he
is the temple or is it about them taking
up residence in me if those seems like
Polar Opposites of each other and I I I
have too many things I have a mug of tea
I've the device and I want but I want to
um the way the way John is designed that
section of speeches is that 14 through
chapter 16 is kind of a uh I think a
Triad a three-part structure we've never
talked about this but then 17 comes as
like the plus one like the boom the
extra thing the extra sauce and in the
extra sauce the final lines of John 17
are just so Cosmic and mind-blowing
because he's like Father you know what I
am in you and you're an in me and what I
really desire desire is that we go be in
them so that they can be in
us like what what that's great but there
no there that has to be a bookend yeah
to this almost a riddle it's almost as
if these opening lines of 14 are a
riddle that you've got to walk through
it and then you get to 17 it's the
mutual indwelling of divine and human in
the Sun and then in the spirit and this
is one way to talk about that for this
window of time post Resurrection pre-
new creation
iswell
yeah love that

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N.T. Wright and Tim Mackie Discuss “In My Father’s House…” (Temple Theology)

Transcription