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STAMOS WITH THE CHIEF SECURITY OFFICER AT SENTINEL ONE.
IS OPENAI AND OTHER AI LABS RIGHT TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR IP?
ALEX: I THINK THEY ARE. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DOUBT THE CLAIM THAT DEEPSEEK WAS ABLE TO BUILD SUCH AN INCREDIBLY CAPABLE MODEL WITH SUCH LITTLE COMPUTE AND LOW COST AS THEY CLAIM. THERE ARE SOME GREAT BREAKTHROUGHS. THEY PUBLISHED A PAPER THAT DEMONSTRATED GREAT BREAKTHROUGHS IN BOTH TRAINING COSTS AND INFERENCE. INFERENCE IS WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU ARE RUNNING THE MODEL FOR PEOPLE TO USE, AND THEY HAD LEGITIMATE BREAKTHROUGHS THAT TO THEIR CREDIT THEY HAVE DOCUMENTED THAT OTHER PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO USE.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT THEY UTILIZED OPENAI'S MODEL RUNNING UP IN AZURE AS WELL AS META'S OPEN SOURCE MODELS TO BUILD DEEPSEEK, AND THAT IS WHAT IS BEING INVESTIGATED.
MIKE: IS THERE ANYTHING THAT MICROSOFT AND OTHER OPENAI AND OTHER PROVIDERS CAN DO TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN? IF NOT DEEPSEEK, THEN PERHAPS ANOTHER COMPETITOR FROM CHINA?
ALEX: THIS IS THE CHALLENGE. MICROSOFT'S BUSINESS MODEL IS THAT YOU CAN GO TO MICROSOFT AZURE AND OPEN UP AN ACCOUNT, AND YOU CAN ASK THEM TO CREATE A PRIVATE COPY OF THE OPENAI MODELS THAT YOU CAN USE FOR YOUR OWN PURPOSES. THIS IS HOW MICROSOFT PLANS ON MONETIZING THEIR MULTIBILLION-DOLLAR INVESTMENT IN OPENAI. THAT IS A GREAT THING FOR THEM AND A GREAT THING IN THEORY FOR OPENAI AND THE CUSTOMERS.
YOU CAN HAVE A VERSION OF OPENAI THAT IN THEORY DOES NOT EXPOSE MODEL WEIGHTS TO THE CUSTOMER AND DOES NOT EXPOSE THE CUSTOMER'S PRIVATE ENTERPRISE DATA. WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT PEOPLE HAVE FIGURED OUT WAYS WHERE YOU CAN ASK A MODEL MANY MILLIONS OR BILLIONS OF QUESTIONS TO SUCK THE DATA OUT OF IT. IMAGINE YOU HAVE AN ANCIENT AND WISE PROFESSOR, AND YOU ASK THEM MANY QUESTIONS AND THEN EFFECTIVELY BECOME A COPY OF THAT PROFESSOR. THAT IS WHAT CAN HAPPEN EXCEPT AT MACHINE SPEED. YOU CAN DO THAT OVER DAYS, WEEKS, OR MONTHS.
AND THAT IS A BUSINESS MODEL THAT MICROSOFT IS OPERATING. DETECTING THAT BEHAVIOR MIGHT BE POSSIBLE, BUT THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SELLING. I THINK THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK INTO WHAT DEEPSEEK DID, BUT IT WILL BE A CAT AND MOUSE GAME TO DETERMINE WHETHER SOMEBODY IS ACTUALLY UTILIZING THE MODELS IN THE WAY THAT MICROSOFT WANTS THEM TO AND GETS PAID FOR, AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE COPYING THOSE MODELS.
CAROLINE: WE WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE DETAIL OF CONCERNS AND PRIVACY. TERESA PAYTON JOINED US, A FORMER CIO FOR THE WHITE HOUSE. HERE IS WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY.
>> THIS IS AN UNTESTED APP. I WOULD CAUTION PEOPLE NOT TO CAUTION PEOPLE TO PUT TOO MUCH PROPRIETARY COMPANY INFORMATION INTO IT UNTIL THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING CALLED ETHICAL HACKING OR TESTING OF THE ACTUAL APP AND LEARNING MORE ABOUT HOW IS THE DATA TREATED, WHERE IS IT STORED, AND HOW DO THE ALGORITHMS WORK. IT IS OPEN SOURCE, BUT THINGS NEED TO BE PUT THROUGH THEIR PACES.
CAROLINE: DEEPSEEK WAS THE NUMBER ONE DOWNLOADED, AND WE ALSO NOW HAVE ALIBABA ANNOUNCING ITS LATEST POWERFUL AI VIA -- AI NOVEL. SHOULD SIMILAR RETICENCE BE USED?
ALEX: THIS IS WHERE IT GETS COMPLICATED, AND WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL TO SEPARATE OUT TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. THERE IS THE DEEPSEEK APP THAT PEOPLE ARE DOWNLOADING. THAT DATA GO STRAIGHT TO CHINA. IF YOU ARE DOWNLOADING DEEPSEEK OR GOING TO ITS WEBSITE AND TYPING IN A QUERY, THAT DATA GO STRAIGHT TO CHINA AND IS AVAILABLE TO THAT CHINESE COMPANY AND IS AVAILABLE TO THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT WITHOUT A PROBLEM.
ABSOLUTELY, COMPANIES SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWING EMPLOYEES TO DOWNLOAD THE DEEPSEEK APP INTO THE PHONE. IF YOU DOWNLOAD THE OPEN-SOURCE MODEL, THAT DOES NOT GO DOWN TO CHINA. THERE ARE SOME RISKS, AND THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH THEORETICAL. THE MODEL WEIGHTS DO HAVE AN IDEOLOGICAL TWIST TOWARDS THE CCP. SO IF YOU ASK ABOUT TIANANMEN SQUARE, IT WILL NOT ANSWER OR CREATE A WINNIE THE POOH STORY ABOUT XI JINPING.
SO, IT CORRESPONDS TO THE RULES THAT THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT HAS CREATED ABOUT THE IDEOLOGICAL CONSISTENCY ABOUT AI. THAT IS NOT A SECURITY RISK. THAT BEING SAID, THERE ARE INTERESTING IDEAS THAT PEOPLE HAVE COME UP WITH ABOUT BACKDOORING AI WHEN IT IS USED FOR SECURITY SENSITIVE USES. THAT IS NOT AS BIG OF A DEAL.
A MORE INTERESTING QUESTION FOR ENTERPRISES USING THE MODEL WEIGHTS ARE THE LEGAL ISSUES. IF IT TURNS OUT THAT IT WAS TRADE-OFF OF META OR OPENAI'S MODELS, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE LEGALITY? DEEPSEEK HAS OPEN-SOURCE THERE'S, BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE REALITY TO GET RID OF THE LEGAL ISSUES. OPENAI IS BEING SUED FOR THEIR USE OF TRAINING DATA. THIS IS ONE OF THE ISSUES.
THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY ISSUES HAVE NOT BEEN SOLVED. WE ARE DEALING WITH 18TH, 19TH AND EARLY 20TH-CENTURY COPYRIGHT IDEAS AND TRYING TO