Joe Rogan Experience #1080 - David Goggins

Five, four, three, two, one... boom, and we're live. Thanks for doing this, man. I appreciate it.

Hey, thank you for having me. I appreciate that.

He's the only guy I've ever had in the studio where, when I showed up, you were working out.

That's what I do. That's my life.

It's pretty crazy though. I mean, how much time did you have when you got here?

I got here about an hour early.

Oh, yeah? Okay, so I got here shirt off doing chin-ups.

Hilarious! I think if I had the camera out in time for your song, I wanted to take some pictures.

Well, maybe next time.

Next time! Well, I’ll catch you after the show. You are a guide for a lot of people. You sort of embody the idea of hardening your mind and figuring out a way to do things that most people think are impossible.

Alright, let’s... you've sort of become that guy over your life, and you've become that guy for a lot of people, including me. Online, we’ve talked about you on the podcast a ton of times. So having you in here has been—it's very exciting to me.

I appreciate that, thank you.

How'd you become that guy?

You know what? I grew up not that guy. Yeah, so a lot of people put a title on me—they want to... they see me now. They see me now as the guy that, with his shirt off, who can do 4030 pull-ups in 17 hours, who can run tours in five miles in 39 hours, who can do all this crazy shit. But what they don't understand is they don't understand the journey that it took me to get to this point. And what got me to this point was I was just the opposite.

Everything—the day I was that guy—who ran away from absolutely everything that I got in front of me. But not many people knew that I had two people at the like—the real me was like this very scared, insecure, stuttering guy, got beat up by his dad—all this kind of stuff. And I built this fake person that walked around like my shit didn’t stink, you know? You know that.

Yeah.

So that was kind of how I did it. And in the process of time, I realized that I was lying to myself and lying to people.

But it's a fascinating journey though because you are that guy now, Ryan. You genuinely are a legit badass, right? At one point in time, you were a legit terrified person.

Yes.

So what was the process like? How did you step forth?

Well, it's a long process, right? Um, my dad beat the shit out of me. Growing up, I was the first black baby born in this hospital called Millard Fillmore in Buffalo, New York. My dad owned skating rinks, he owned bars, he ran prostitutes from Canada to Buffalo, New York. My dad was a big-time pimp—a big-time anything bad about a person—a big-time hustler. He was American, you know that? I’m with them—Denzel Washington. He was that, but not that bad, right?

Yeah.

He wasn’t that big, but that’s what he reminds me of. He was that kind of guy. And he beat the shit out of me.

Did she help you?

No, I love my mom. There was an instance one time when my mom got knocked out on top of the stairs, and they drug her down the stairs by her hair. At six years old, I’ll never forget this in my mind. I was always afraid my whole life; I was afraid. But I had this voice—this conscience—that would always be battling me, said, “Hey, you got to get up and do something.” I didn’t want to do shit, you know? I was just afraid. But that voice would force me to get up.

And my dad, you know, I’d try to beat him up or whatever at six, and I’d get my ass kicked. So this went on for several years, and I have a big-time learning disability because my dad didn’t believe in us going to school. So my dad, it was about the business, the skating rink and the bar. So this game would open about seven o'clock at night, and this is the time I was able to walk—so about four or five, six years old, eight, nine—and I’d go to the skating rink. It’s ten o’clock at night, and I worked the skating rink until 10:00 at night. And then we would scrape the gum off the floors and we cleaned the whole skating rink up. And then my dad would go to the office, and my brother and I would sleep in the office, and my mom would go upstairs and work the bar until three o'clock in the morning, and then they cleaned the bar up. So after all that shit was done, going to school really happened.

So when I went to school, I was all kind of, you know, my learning disability. I had social anxiety. I was just a jacked-up kid from living in this tour at home. From the outside looking in, we lived in an all-white neighborhood, and then we would travel to the ghetto of Buffalo, New York, where the skating rink was. So we, you know, we worked around mostly blacks, and I lived around mostly whites. But no one knew what was going on in the house that—on 201 Paradise Road.

Yeah, it's crazy. But, um, my mom got courage to finally leave him when I was about eight years old. We moved to a small town in Brazil, Indiana, and that’s when the real war started for me.

And Brazil is a small town. Great people—a lot of great people. And I say that because like, people get offended. And I’m gonna get to the point where they get offended—there was maybe ten black families out of about 10,000 people in the town. And in 1995, the KKK marched in the Fourth of July parade. So this was a—not every bar was racist; there's a lot of good people. Some of the best people I knew was there, but there's also a lot of racism.

So me being one of the few black kids in the area, you know, it kind of haunts you. I had stuff on my notebook, you know, “We’re gonna kill you” on my Spanish notebook. They had that on my car—this is early 90s. And so even though I said it didn’t hurt me, it was jacking me up.

So all the insecurities I had when I was a kid with my father, I moved into this area here, and it just got worse and worse and worse, and it fucking haunted me. And that voice that I talked about kept talking louder and louder and louder. I was doing nothing about it, and I decided to make moves.

And I cheated all through school, and it’s kind of humbling to talk about my stories sometimes in this. It's also embarrassing, but it’s real. It’s who the fuck I am, it’s what I am, it’s what created me.

I copied from the fourth grade to my junior year in high school on every assignment. And I wanted to get in the military. I’m gonna join the Air Force. And the guy gave me an ASVAB test—it’s like a watered-down SAT—and I couldn’t copy on it because the guy beside me had a test A and I had test B. They gave him the right, I had test C. So I looked to copy on this test, and I couldn’t copy on it, so I got like a 20. And I wanted to be an Air Force pararescueman; it's guys that jump out of airplanes and save down pilots. It’s a special operator in the Air Force.

And my score was so horribly low that they said, “Hey, I got an 18” the second time, even worse. I needed to get a 50 out of a 99.

And my mom and I, for a while, lived in the government-subsidized apartments; seven dollars a month, and also food stamps. And we slowly moved up to a $230 a month place. But at the time, we were pretty poor. But my mom afforded enough money for me to go see a tutor one hour a week.

So for four hours a month, I had six months to study from our last test. I can only take the test three times, and I studied my ass off and passed it. I got in the Air Force and realized there were more things in front of me. I was afraid of water; terrified of the water.

And I learned how to swim, but what gets everybody in this training—in all special ops training—is the water confidence where they try to pretty much drown your ass. You know, all of our lives, we've been breathing, and they take that from you, and they want to see how comfortable you are in the water.

And there's only 1% African Americans in Special Operations, and I didn’t know anything about African—like a lot of them are negative buoyant, which I am because of the bone density. I struggled, but I'm six weeks into the program. There were about 25 guys left out of about 150 I was there, and I was never—I didn’t go to sleep for six weeks of the program and I wanted to quit so badly.

But I quit everything in my life. I copied through school; I wanted to prove people wrong. And so here I am in this Air Force program, starting to get a little more confidence. But this water was kicking my ass. And six weeks into the program, the doctor gave me a blood test and must have sickle cell—sickle cell trait, not the anemia, but I still killed people. So they pulled me out of training for a week.

And when you go from being very uncomfortable in that water situation and then now you’re comfortable, and I'm sitting back watching the guys drown, I’m not part of the activities anymore for this week. I didn’t want to get back in that damn water again.

So the fear overcame, and all of my insecurities from my dad, from this small town, from everything started coming back. And even though no one knew how fucked up I was, I kind of created this other person, tough. I lived with this shit all the time.

So, I mean, I wouldn’t go back in that water. The doctor called me a backup; I thought to get like a medical kick out of the military, so no quitting for me. They kicked me out so I can have some pride. The doctor said, “No, I’m kidding; we could put you back in training.” And I was like, “Fuck!” But after a week, I'm like, you know what?

I missed one week; there's only three weeks left. There’s a good chance, you know, I could tough this shit out and go on. But I went back to the CO and the commanding officer of the program, and the sergeant said, “Hey, you gotta start from day one, because you missed that week of training.” And I broke. I broke. I couldn’t imagine going back through that again, so I made up a lie and I said, “Man, this sickle-cell thing is really scaring me.”

It was the fucking water. It wasn’t sickle cell. And I pretty much quit even though they gave me a medical, and I quit.

So, from the age of 19 days to 22, I went into a job called TAC-P where you control fast movers behind enemy lines. Cool job, but there's no water. I was afraid of water, so I avoided it, and I gained 125 pounds in that time frame. I went from 175 to almost 300; 297 was my heaviest, and I started finding things that were comfortable. And the more things I found comfortable, the more uncomfortable my mind was because that voice I was telling you about—it always was there. I was trying to avoid that conscience; I wanted to be left alone from that conscience, and it wouldn’t leave me alone.

So I got out of the Air Force and I started working for a job called Ecolab, spraying for cockroaches at 24 and I’m spraying in different Steak 'n' Shakes, Red Lobster, whatever, from eleven o’clock at night to seven o'clock in the morning.

And what changed? I came home and watched this Discovery Channel show, Class 224. I came home from Steak ‘n’ Shake; I sprayed it down, I had a big old large 42-ounce shake, walked across the street, and got a box of mini doughnuts from 7-Eleven.

I never drive home for 45 minutes—this big old fat guy who, yeah, I worked out, but I was fat. I didn’t run, didn’t PT, I just hit the gym.

So I'm driving home, turn the TV on, and what comes on? Discovery Channel. And that’s when everything changed for me.

I was taking a shower, I walked out, heard these guys, and I watched the show, and it made me reflect big-time on the piece of shit that I am. And I'm exactly what people said I was going to be.

So, what was on this show that really struck home?

It was, um, I saw these guys going into water. So I was terrified of it. I can’t even express—I don’t know if you ever had a big fear. And I know a lot of fighters have fears and stuff like that, but they get over them. But all of us have these fears that you just don’t want to face.

And I had a lot of them—had a lot of them. And that’s what created the person who’s in front of you today, and we’ll get into that, but I’m just a scared fuck is what I was. And, but I was watching these guys going through Hell Week, Class 224, and these guys ringing the bell, quitting, dropping their helmets down, rolling out—a lot of guys leaving.

And it made me reflect on my fears, my insecurities, and I saw real men—what I thought were real men—who were staying, who were overcoming adversity, who were overcoming all these different things that I had blamed so many fucking people in my life—my dad, my mom for not being there when I was 14 years old. My mom had gotten remarried to this great guy; he got murdered, and then I moved back to a small town in Brazil. And everybody was to blame—my learning disability, my skin color, you know, me being everything.

And so I sat there for a while and I was like, “Man, I gotta fucking—I gotta no one's gonna fucking come to help me; no one's gonna fucking come to help me. This is me against me, period.”

And, so, I had to man up. And I said the first thing I started doing is facing every fucking fear I have, no matter what the fuck it is, man.

And these things would keep me up, and no one—people who are here in this fucking day—they will never really understand and grasp when you face these things and so many things—how they keep you up and haunt you at night.

I think there’s a lot of people out there that know what you’re talking about.

I mean, and so that’s what it did. And I had two options: to either be that 300-pound guy who sprayed for cockroaches and a thousand dollars a month at 24 years old, knowing that I’m not 50 fucking years old, I can reflect on this and think about what God never became, or I can totally just sack it up and fail and fail and fail until I succeed.

So I started calling recruiters up. I said I want to be a fucking Navy SEAL. And every recruiter said there’s a weight and height—they weigh weight and height limit to get in the military, and I was 6 foot 1 and 297, and I had prior service which was a big deal. So I called all these recruiters up, and all of them said, “Hey, how tall are you, blah blah,” they got into conversation and see if I even qualified.

And by the time I got to my weight, when we were hanging up, pretty much like, “Hey, you know what? Call somebody else. You know, try to get in the reserves.”

So I tried to get in the reserves, and I called this guy named Steven Salady, your recruiter, and he said, “Hey, come on in.” He saw me, put me through the weight standard, all the sort of stuff, and to get into the class I had to lose 106 pounds in less than three months.

So I was like, “Fuck that, I can’t do that.” I grabbed my chocolate milkshake and went back to Ecolab. I’m going back to work, man. This is my life.

So, in this job, you look—you're looking for cockroaches, you’re looking for rodents and stuff like that. And this next morning or this next night, I went to work, and I hit the all-night cockroaches too much—I hit the mother lode of cockroaches and this restaurant got full of cockroaches and rodents and everything else.

And I sat there and said, “This is my life.” I said, “This is my life. You are exactly who the fuck this is it.”

And I said, “This ain’t gonna be it for me.”

So in that restaurant, I quit my job, left my canister in that restaurant, my spray canister, got back in my Ecolab truck and went home.

And I started working out like somebody! I became the most obsessed person on the planet Earth. Basically, I had to invent a guy that didn’t exist. I had to invent a guy that could take any pain, any suffering, any kind of judgment, be called shit, be called whatever the fuck in the world and be understanding the fucking room and said go fuck yourself. I had to build the—I had to build this callous mind.

And I built it through suffering. I built it to downright fucking just crushing myself. If it was raining outside at three o'clock in the fucking morning, feeling the first instinct is don’t go out there and do shit, my instinct was we gotta fucking go out there. Anything that was fucking horrible in my life that I would normally say no—that was inhumane—that most people I had to go do it.

And I started callous in my mind. At this point in my life, I lost the weight. I lost the weight and I went back to the recruiter. I got into that class and I went through three Navy SEAL Hell Weeks in one year. Only guy to ever be in three Hell Weeks in one year. After my knowledge, the first one, I didn’t make it through. The next two I did.

And then I just didn’t stop anymore from there and I started realizing through this process that the fucking mind is what you created, and I started opening different doors that I didn’t think were even there. I didn’t think even existed.

And the more doors opened up, the more I started realizing that my potential is damn near endless, and it changed my whole mindset.

So I went from David Goggins, and I created Goggins, and that journey is a priceless journey that is hard for me to explain to people because it sounds so quick and easy—that guy's lost this weight, and I went through three Hell Weeks. I went to Ranger School, went to Delta Force, whatever it is—it was brutal. It's a brutal journey every fucking day.

And if ever...so are you happy? If anybody knows my life story—and I try to give you just a snippet of it—where I'm at today in front of Joe Rogan telling you my life to get through what I became to get to where I'm at now, there’s nothing but pride I have for myself that I can’t really—I can't really show people because I have this face and a space that they see like—are you happy? What’s wrong with you? I’m driven, I’m obsessed, and that’s what you see.

People need to hear this story. This is an exciting story for people because there’s a lot of people out there that feel trapped, and they feel stuck, and they feel like they can’t do anything. This is who they are. You’re a guy who felt that exact same way but figured out how to not be that person and be a person you would admire.

How did you—what were the first steps like? You had some slips before, right? Because you quit because of the water thing, right? But then when you went back the second time and you decided you’re going to lose all that weight and you quit that job, did you—was it just straightforward from there or were there some days where you just failed and then you picked it back up again?

So my first run when I decided to lose the weight, I was—like I said, 297; I was about thirty-two percent body fat. And I went—my idea was to run four miles for my first run. I didn’t know how bad it was gonna fucking hurt me. I used to run before I was fat, and I was like “Fuck it, I can do this.”

I ran a quarter mile and walked home. I walked home and sat on my couch and cried. I miss my mom’s house, which was about 40—maybe 20 minutes down the road—and cried and getting her couch saying, “I can’t fucking do this; I don’t know what I’m gonna do; I just got somebody pregnant, my life was this shit. I was making $1,000 a month, my rent was $810 a month, and my mind just kept fucking with me and kept fucking—you're not good enough, man, this isn’t for you, man—these guys are the best motherfucking on the planet Earth; you’re not that.”

And what it was, and it’s kind of funny, I was obsessed with Rocky. Rocky, one in particular, and when I was a kid I would come home every day and watch his fucking show, Rocky, and I would fast forward with the little VHS tapes to round 14.

Round 14 fucked me up like nobody’s business while this song came on, right? So when I bought the pull-up record, I listened to the song for 17 hours—it’s two minutes and 13 seconds—and I’m able to visualize and dream like nobody’s business.

And I know that I can create a vision that many people can’t. And I work for it. So the vision I had was when Apollo Creed beat the shit out of Rocky—beat the shit out of him. He kept fighting. He was a dumb fighter—couldn’t read, couldn’t write, just punchy—everything about him. And Rocky beats him, his arms raised up in the air, turn around, thought he won the fight; he turns around and sees this guy getting up.

And it was the face of Apollo Creed that changed my life—the face of Apollo Creed. It was like just by that fucking getting up—not winning, just by him getting the fuck up—Apollo Creed was his champ. His best Rocky had taken his soul, had literally taken his soul. His head goes down, he looks down like, “Ruth, what the fuck are you?”

I wanted to be that—not Rocky. I wanted to be the guy that people looked at. I don’t care if you liked me or didn’t like me, I don’t care, but said, “This fucker is gonna keep coming after whatever the fuck’s in front of them.”

I wanted that! I wanted that! I wanted that worse than anything in the world! So, that is—it kept picturing me falling down and getting up, and every fucker that called me shit—I was dumb.

Even myself, even myself, I wanted to feel something besides defeat. I wanted to just go the distance. And that going the distance pushed me to a point of where now I go way past the distance.

So you go the first day, you run a quarter-mile, and you walk back home and you're upset. How do you—how do you move forward?

So basically, the idea was I came home and I had a talking milkshake. I sat down and I gave up. I said, “It ain't gonna fuckin’ happen, Mac! I lose 106 pounds and I can’t even go a quarter of a fucking mile!”

I started being able to take negative shit and be happy. And this whole—I say “What if?” a lot; it sounds corny and it sounds weak, but it’s true. One of the recruiters said there are not many black Navy SEALs. In fact, I was the 36th African American SEAL in history as it relates because the fucking water, you know what I mean? People get mad at me; it’s fucking true—just get over it.

And so I was like, “Man, what story would it be if my fucking fat, dumb, lying-to-people insecure ass can overcome this shit?” And that “What if” mentality, that dreamer mentality, just would always fuel me. It was just ruin, man! What if I can be—what if I can be a SEAL? Man, what if I can go from wearing a quarter of shit to now I run 205 miles?

What if I can go, “But just—what if I can go in and what if—how would that feel if I’m graduating?” Kind of get at that graduation thing I was talking about, 224th like the video. I said, then I watched this commander officer stood up, and he said to the graduation guys, “You’re graduating buds.” Like eighteen of them.

He said, “We live in a society where mediocrity is often rewarded, and we don’t—to say something about these men, detest mediocrity.”

And I wanted to be a man that detests mediocrity. You know, it got me a lot of trouble in the SEAL Teams and going forward in my life because I just—I started looking down on people for not going hardest fuck.

And I started to create different things, but that’s for a different day. But I just believe that... you know, my whole mind changed. That is a problem that a lot of people who work hard have. You get angry at people who don't work hard to the point where you want to insult them; you want to smack them, and it’s really because you’re scared of seeing that in yourself.

Yeah, that's probably the truth. That's probably the truth.

So I guess a lot of times in my life I would see people and part was a direct reflection of who I was, and I would get mad at them. But the reflection was probably just me getting mad at myself.

Yeah, that’s for me—100%. When I see people half-ass some things, I get terrified of seeing that in myself, and I get mad at them, right?

And it’s not a good way to handle it.

No, you know, but it’s natural because you’re just terrified of seeing that trait, right?

And it cost me. So you come back, mmm, you do the quarter-mile, right? You walk back home. How do you regroup?

So what I did, I sat down, then I put Rocky in, I got my milkshake, put Rocky—ice, you know? I was big-time in Rocky and Platoon! Why Platoon? I love to see people who were getting beat down. And there’s scenes—that’s what drove me. And people in my Hell Weeks, you know, I was in three of them.

I always hear me singing these songs, these songs, humming these songs in torturous situations. When everybody’s quitting, this code I would be somewhere gone. Somewhere fucking gone. Somewhere fucking darkest. There’s a scene in Platoon when Elias Wimborne shoots Elias, and you know they think Elias is dead. And the choppers are taking off and Charlie Sheen’s asking him, you know, Tom Berenger, "Where's Elias?"

He says, “I found him back there dead somewhere.” And through the woods, the Viet Cong is chasing, and Elias is through the woods and they shoot him in his fucking back. And all he wants to do is get to the fucking chopper. He’s getting shot in his back; he’s getting up, getting something face, getting up, and you see this guy just fighting.

I love the fuckin' guy who just fights. And so I put these things in as reminders that you're gonna have to fucking suffer, man! This—this .25, man! This! Man, you're gonna have to fucking suffer to go from this fat, insecure shit to one of the best guys on the planet Earth.

This journey’s gonna take something that is gonna be incomprehensible to most people. And these different visualizations, how I visualized myself, it's become so nasty and dirty that I wasn't like the fact that I went point five.

So it became from being defeated to like, “Man, alright, fuck! Maybe I can go 0.75? You know?” It just became this different mindset. I turn negatives into positives. So I would—I would take it like, “Who would even think about doing this?” So I would sit in my couch saying, “Who at 297 who can’t fucking swim that great?” Who’s scared of the fucking water?

We have the fucking balls to man up, quit a job, and go and put everything on himself!

So it’s how I started talking to myself and put myself in a whole different category. And that was fueling me the next day. And I just kept using that as fuel and fuel. No one would do this shit! No one would do this shit! You’re the best fuck around! You’re the best fuck ever lived!

And I had the guys kept fueling me with them with the right kind of message that I needed to hear that was never telling myself. And through time, it became reality to myself.

So you start out on the first day, and then do you start running again the second day?

Yeah, the second day was right back after it again. But I started realizing I can’t run that far, right?

So what I did was I became damn near a professional cyclist with the miles I put on the bike. So I never—we never watched TV; I had to be doing something. So I was riding the bike. I rode a bike a lot to lose the first initial kind of weight because it took my bones were just hurting so bad. My bones were broken and I learned to get over that also. And I tried to swim a lot. I weren’t a great swimmer, but putting fins on kind of equalized my body. I wasn’t so negative buoyant.

So I started fitting a whole bunch, and I spent hours in the pool, hours in the pool, trying to get more and more comfortable... not because I was going underwater, I was so scared of the water that I had to live in the water. I had to become one with the water.

So going to the pool used to scare me, so I went to the pool an awful lot. And then the bike got easier; I was able to run more. I went from like a one-mile—one mile was a great accomplishment—two miles, and then from two to three was a big one. I went from three to six.

And then they have a warning order that they give people to get ready for BUD/S, and the whole thing was running 6 miles five days a week, and that was my goal.

And so I just kept, I failed—I go back to scratch. I use some positive motivation. I had like one day where I felt fucking defeated, but I started realizing this was a part of the process. This is a part of the journey.

I had to realize this is part of my process versus just saying like I used to, “I’m just not good enough.” If I’m not good enough—we always say that shit. That’s not good enough.

And then we try something else, I’m gonna fucking make myself good enough! And that became my mentality. I’m gonna make myself good enough!

And so I misunderstood a lot, but that’s—all it came down to. I made myself good enough. And the days I couldn’t run that far, the next week I would do two-a-days.

So on the running, if I ran a quarter mile, I weighed a couple hours—it haunted me, bothered me. I’d try to run a half a mile next time, same day, “You can do more than this.” If I had to walk ahead and walk, it just became just a process of grinding and grinding.

And grinding is not even a good word for it; it’s not even a good word for it. And just going further and further! And then, when I got through running, I’d go to the bike, I’d go to the pool.

If I got tired somewhere—my legs were tired—I’d go to the gym, and I developed this crazy workout where I was doing volume like two, three hundred reps of like very lightweight. People said, “How—you know how come you don’t have any like loose skin?” My workout routine in the gym became sick; it became sick.

I was just doing two, three hundred reps, four hundred reps on like chest, just like for one simple exercise, the bench press, and then rack it, get back on it—just rep it out, trying to burn as many calories as I can and build that muscle mass. And I just became obsessed with it.

So when you’re doing this, are you worried at all about repetitive stress injuries or the fact that your body’s not conditioned for this? And you’re basically taking your body where you had abused it, right?

I didn’t care. I didn’t know any better.

I didn’t think about it.

Wow.

I didn’t—I didn’t know that working out that hard would fuck you up.

Oh, yeah! Yeah. That’s one reason I went through three Hell Weeks.

So I don’t talk about it a lot, but the stress of my life getting to 24 caused me to have some serious psoas issues. I didn’t know anything about this. There’s psoas muscles—what we use is a hip flexor muscle. And basically, under stress, it starts to tighten up. And I was—I started from the time I was in third grade to the time I was in seventh grade—white blotches on my skin.

I was just—I was in that case. And so the insides of me were also getting jacked up. So in this process, my psoas muscles got real tight to my T12. I can show you the bump on the back of my head after this show is over. But I had—I started growing this fucking large tumor, or looking bump on the back of my head, from my body compressing.

So I’m six foot one, but my muscles were like five foot nine because I just started—the muscle tightness for my psoas was going to my T12. I was just getting tighter. My quads, everything, getting tired from just stress; just stress in my life. So the more I stressed my body with the workouts, my lower body became out of balance.

So I had a bunch of stress fractures, a bunch of injuries going through BUDS. And how I got through BUDS was—they gave me—my third time was my last time going through Hell Week. I basically put a black sock on at four o'clock in the morning, and I would get duct-taped. I had numerous stress fractures on both of my legs because my body was literally coming in on itself in my legs. I was pronating it really bad and putting stress on my shins.

And so I would put duct tape on my feet and I would show you the top of them where I have pressure ulcers—they’re the size of quarters from—you know how the ankle joint? So the foot goes to the shin and how you move, where the tape was so tight it just created a nice ulcer right there. And I just kept going through it.

So you just used that tape to just support your ankles, right?

So I basically cast myself. And for the first 30, 45 minutes, the pain was excruciating, but then it would go numb.

And I would go numb.

And then I saw I got through.

Wow, did that do any long-term damage?

Oh yeah, I’ve been out for five years.

So I retired from the—I did 21 years in the military, this time in the Air Force, and I did about 16 years in the Navy.

How old are you?

43.

You look like you’re 30.

That’s good; that’s good.

You really—you look very young for your age.

Whenever I’m stressed, I get after it. I think I fixed whatever was bothering me.

So I basically, over the last five years, everything I’ve done in my life, I did be very unhealthy. I’ve never talked about it. I just kept going, and it cost me pretty much—I was choking my insides out—adrenal issues, tons of glandular issues, thyroid issues, anything with the endocrine system pretty much shut down on me.

A lot of my organs were pretty much shutting down, and I went from a guy who could run 205 miles to a guy who couldn’t get out of bed. And the doctors were trying to search what was wrong; that’s why I figured out the psoas muscle. No one figured it out and I hit it by accident.

So I missed two days of stretching out in five years. And so what happened was all this shit I did to myself—this stress, physical, mental, all kind of shit—it just choked me out from the inside.

And doctors put me on all kind of medication, and the medication started doing the exact opposite. It was kind of sure; I was on DHEA, I was on some different things for my estrogen, different things for my—I was on anything to do with your endocrine system, thyroid medicine, God—I was on all kinds of shit to get my stuff.

I’d like just lump in my throat from like the heart; I was always—I couldn’t run down the street; my body was just jacked up. I couldn’t sleep; my hope was just down, shutting down. I could give you a lot more than that, but just give an example—I was fucking dying.

And so I couldn’t do anything. I went from a guy who was this guy to a guy who can’t do shit. And doctors were like, “I don’t know what’s wrong with you.” “Is it PTSD? Is it—to what’s going on?”

I knew what any of that shit. So I sat in the bed one day and I realized, “Man, my life is over; this is it.” But it gave me time to reflect on everything I’d accomplished.

I’ve never taken time to reflect on the kid I was to the man I am now, so honestly the time I wasn’t working out was the best time of my life. Because I got a chance to really reflect back and be proud of who I became—a guy who never took time to do that. It was like one after another—get the fuck after, get after it, get after it, you ain't good enough, my fuck, get after it!

And I got halted. So anyway, this process went on for a while—more medication, this isn’t working, that’s not working, and no doctor can figure it out. I’m like, “Fuck it!”

I saw this doc about eight years before this happened, and he was like, “Hey man, you’re so fucking tight, I’ve never seen anybody in my life as tight as you—you need 50,000 hours of stretching.”

He was doing some crazy number. I’m like, “Whatever, stretching? You know, a man just fucking stretching? Man, I worked out so hard, I don’t have time to stretch, man! I was 150 miles a week—I was biking to work, man! I was getting after it, man! I was working a full-time job and stretching and doing that.”

So my body was literally getting tired and tired. Not just from what I was doing, but there's all—I’m calling this—I was on this stuff called a nitro tech, and I got off all the protein stuff.

I started—I stopped hitting the weight so hard, and I just became a running fool. I became the Black Forrest Gump, man, pretty much, pretty simple, man, that’s what happened.

Now, when you say you were using compression tape on your feet and that your feet were jacked up, what was the extent of the injuries?

So basically because of my pronation, that I never figured out ‘cause my psoas muscles—I always had issues with stress fractures, shin splints. So I put a lot of pressure on the inside of my ankles. And so there’s this tendon, the posterior in the back of your—I don’t know if it’s your fibula—my backside of that little bone—the backs out of your foot; it goes right up beside that, alongside that bone.

And that thing was just so fluent up on both sides that even—this flexing my foot was just killing me.

So I—I always would put a lot of pressure on my ankles, and then I would run, and it would always hurt after that. I would do it badly; it would fuck me up.

When you get hurt, you know when you cast that thing up? Casting my feet always helped me out because it locked my foot into a position that wouldn’t make me pronate as much.

So between the casting of that and if you watched the Badwater video of 2006, you see me crossing the finish line with this compression tape literally flying on my ankles. Because I went to the race with compression tape on my ankles.

And so basically, I had that on my—you know, on my ankles; I had inserts in my shoes and also this wedge on the back heel of my left foot so then it would keep me from pronating that heel so much.

So I had all that on just to go around, and I ran my ass off and went to Badwater 2006 and with compression tape on my feet and walked a lot, but I got third place.

Do you always run with regular running shoes now?

I do, yeah.

So now I don’t have those issues anymore. All the stretching has opened my body up to where I know how it should be.

So how flexible are you now? ‘Cause I would imagine you’re probably a fucking ballerina at this point?

I’m trying to get there; I’m trying to get there. So I stretch every night for at least two hours. There’s a thing that people said that always pissed me off—because I’m pretty flexible. They said, “Oh, you’re naturally flexible.”

People have a natural threshold.

Like, “Oh, they don’t...,” like a doctor told me that. I go, “You don’t know what you’re talking about!”

I’m like, “You don’t know what you’re talking about,” ‘cause most people don’t push themselves past that pain—that stretch pain, right?

People want to put a title on your mask; “Easy for them.”

Oh, yes, exactly!

Natural!

Exactly! Now you don’t work hard enough!

Fuck yeah!

People built like chimps aren’t usually flexible, right? You have to force yourself to do that!

That’s right!

And I know it because I had a friend, my friend Tom Argonah, he was a football player—jack—big, thick dude; terrible flexibility.

He was taking Taekwondo with me, and over the course of a couple of years, I saw that dude eventually develop a full split.

There you go.

And he just did it through his mind.

Yes.

While everybody else was done training, that guy would be on the mat constantly stretching and always working out ‘cause he had built his body up so strong through all those years of squatting and lifting that he just—you know, he was all tense.

Everything was just like this super powerful, right? But all, like, very tense.

That’s why I stopped, you know? That’s why I never stretched—because I wanted that strength.

Yeah, yeah.

You want that tight muscle, but no, I don’t think it is stupid.

Yeah, I think you’re not supposed to stretch before you do big physical activities because I think it does weaken you somewhat, but I don’t think being flexible overall makes you weak or not at all.

Yes!

It certainly doesn’t from martial arts because you need that flexibility to have leg dexterity—to be able to kick, right? It’s got to be fluid where it’s not tightened up by the restriction of the motion of your body. I get it; it’s the truth!

I just think people are—for whatever reason—and I’m one of those who drone on too much about yoga. I’m like one of those vegans that’s like “You gotta do it, man!”

Right, you should try it!

I’m trying!

I get it!

I know!

Like a born-again Christian or something— I'm getting that way now, man.

That way now!

For anybody that does anything hard—like, you know, if you do anything, like with weightlifting type shit or martial arts type shit, where it’s just—everything’s explosion—it’s lifting, it’s heavy, push, push, push, right?

Yoga just will balance your shit out.

Yeah!

Well, yeah, really well, man! And there are all these people that resist it.

Like, there was some article recently that it was something along the lines of, “Hot yoga is just trendy nonsense.” I’ve read that, and even in the article it talked about that there might be some benefits in terms of like the strengthening your arteries and they didn’t even mention heat-shock proteins.

There's a study going on right now, I believe, it’s at Harvard. One of my friends was telling me about it where they’re trying to find the benefits of 90-minute hot yoga classes because they think it might mirror the observed benefits of sauna—which they already know for a fact has big benefits because of your body producing heat shock proteins to deal with the heat, right?

That’s why I put that sauna in here, man! I go in that shit all the time!

Well, no one can tell me it doesn’t work!

That’s big!

It’s proof positive; you changed my life! It wasn’t medication or this or a dress; it was stretching!

Yeah!

It was yoga, stretching, all that stuff combined changed it.

Well, I just think it balances out your body in those static poses where you’re just holding the pose, and it just—it works you out in a weird way that one’s a person you just don’t get lifting weights or hitting the bag or anything else.

You’re just not gonna get that kind of workout.

I can’t agree with you more. It’s so difficult!

Crazy!

Get your ass off and shit, and you’re like, “This is like the silent struggle.”

It’s humbling!

Nobody knows! It’s like if you see like two doorways, right? And one of them is like, “Fucking CT, Ollie Fletcher’s fucking super pump iron addict’s gym,” which is hard work.

And then right next to it is the yoga studio. You're like, “Well, once you get done with all that hard work, you'll go over to that yoga studio.”

No, there’s two different kinds of hard work going on.

It's no joke!

Two different kinds of hard work!

Yes, sir!

So what do you do now in terms of—you got over this five years ago—you’re in this bad situation when your body’s not working right. Now everything’s working great again!

Well, I had two heart surgeries also.

Whoa!

Yeah, so you know your heart... So I had a hole in it, so you're not supposed to have a hole in your heart and be a SEAL. And I was born with it. It went undetected, and me pushing so hard.

So around 2009, I was trying to first race across America, and I just couldn’t go anymore. Another pitfall in my life was the hole, and I was pretty much off active duty SEAL for three years.

Yeah, you know, I had two heart surgeries trying to fix it, so the hole was significantly large.

Look how big that is—they say it was as big as a quarter.

Now, Mike!

How big is your quarter?

Yeah, that’s a pretty big hole in your heart! Because they had to use helix patches!

I’m like, that’s impossible!

That the helix patches—they’re in my heart, so the two stents...

What is a helix patch?

It’s like a little mesh, very—like what they do for hernias? Like something—maybe something like that.

So they went through my femoral artery and they placed this patch, but to go through your artery, yeah.

Whoa!

So what? No, the cameras were down through my throat!

Whoa!

So they put this catheter through my femoral artery, went to my heart; they went and they took this helix patch and they placed it in there, and then they found out six months later that the hole wasn’t covered up enough yet because I was, I mean—yeah!

In that huge patch, it was very damn big, so they put—go back in there in 2010.

How does the patch adhere to your heart?

I guess your heart heals around the patch.

Whoa!

What?

So it’s just—it’s amazing!

Yeah, that’s incredible!

I guess!

Yeah, I was losing blood and I was just—I was bad off!

It’s just amazing that you were able to do all that with a hole in your heart!

That’s what the doctors were saying, you know! Because I was a SEAL!

So when I went in and the doctor that found the hole was like, “So they gave me EKGs, all this stuff.”

Once again, Mike, you made—you're in great shape, I’m like, “Man, I just don’t feel good like walking up the stairs, this is making me jacked up.”

So the doctor, Doc Shrek, he was like, “You know, gave me an ECG, go to the doctor, get an echocardiogram.”

I was like, “Okay?” ‘Cause when it comes to your heart, that was a big deal.

So they come back in and they say, “Hey, we can stop the echocardiogram.” I mean, he talked you out in the hallway.

You have a hole in your heart!

And the guy didn’t know that I was—he knew I was Navy; God, I don’t think he was a SEAL because not many black guys are SEALs!

And he had a conversation about, “You know, we gotta fix this real quick.” I said, “Yeah, I mean.”

Then I came up that I was the SEAL. He said, “Man, you could have died jumping. You could have died diving. You could have died in all this stuff because basically the hole in your heart if it’s plugged with something, like anything, like you know, let’s say you get a bubble from diving or something like that, you’re dead!”

Right?

Yeah, and the doctor was like, “I don’t think you understand what was going on.”

Yeah, so anyway, I ended up having this procedure done, and I did great.

And, uh, I didn’t have this hole in my heart anymore. So, uh, pretty much I went through the recovery process.

I went to therapy for quite some time, got back to training, and I lost down to about 195—got down to my ideal weight of where I want to be.

I have some really cool stories to share about that, it was just after all this heart stuff, getting diagnosed, but during that recovery process, I realized, I spent a lot of time with my family.

I dove into my work ethic. I held onto my goals tightly because I always knew I needed an outlet—something to grip hold of.

So what’s really cool is that I spent a lot of time exploring the limits of my abilities.

Getting out there and running around, and doing the things that I love to do! I have a good time!

So I don’t take any of that for granted.

You know, my family, my friends—everything around me is a big deal!

It’s not that I’m ungrateful or anything, but I knew what it was like to be at the bottom, you know?

Yeah!

And you had to fight through some crazy shit and sticking things...and so now I got crazy outlook on life, man.

Totally!

What’s next for me?

Well, there’s always a new journey, you know?

I have something wild planned for the future!

Wow, that’s inspiring!

Totally!

You’re always going to be a badass!

I’ll see you out there!

Call it luck. So, I got through two surgeries. They put me back on— they give you the first one, yeah? And when do they realize that it's not done? Not good enough. So, they take you back and you get a bubble study, a bubble test.

So, they like literally send bubbles that way, safe bubbles that way, to see if the bubble goes through your heart. So, they have this echocardiogram again, and they hook you up, I think to ID or something like that, and they throw these bubbles through your heart and they see if it goes through. After six months, when I should've been healed up, the bubble went through.

So, had to tell me then, “Hey, we got to... you know, you're not good to go.” So, I had to take a year before I had another surgery because that patch had to be completely healed so they could go back in.

You knew you had a hole, right? So then you add a hole because of the heart surgery probably all this time when you're waiting for it. Details, you know? You have an extra hole? Yes, I don't have a hole. Yes. What were you allowed to do with your body then?

Well, at that time, they go, “You know, do how you feel comfortable.” And so, you know, the hole is not going to kill you right now, but you can't die if you can’t jump. You pretty much wouldn't steal anymore. So, I was a recruiter for a period of time.

So, basically, I was crazy about that. Before my second surgery, I was actually training for Delta Force. I wanted to go to Delta, and I was rucking—ruck running a lot.

And before my second run—truck running—I mean, you're running with a pack on your back with some weight on. How heavy is the pack? 50, 60 pounds. And you run with that on? Well, you're supposed to hike or hump—like ruck hopping.

Right? I ran with it because that's what I did. So, the day of heart surgery, I did a ruck run. Jesus, because I knew I was going to be out of commission for a while. So, [ __ ] it, matter, get my last one in, dude.

Jesus Christ, all I could do—I had my training launch after my second heart surgery. All I could do was walk. So, I became an ultra walker. I walked my [ __ ] ass off, and it took a year for that thing to heal up.

And you know, my first bubble study after my second heart surgery came back negative or positive? The bubble went through again. Oh no. And they’re going to crack me open.

Oh man! Over that period of time, my heart healed around that thing nicely and I passed the second bubble test. So, the first bubble test was how long after a year? It was so the first bubble test after the first surgery was six months.

And then you had to go through a full six months after that to really heal. Then you had the second heart surgery. And when does the bubble test fail after the second heart surgery? It was about six months.

Jesus Christ! And then the doctor looked at me and said, “You know, I'm sorry to inform you. Maybe we have to crack your chest open the next time.” They’re really getting there.

So, I sat back thinking this could be a third heart surgery. And then that one they said, “We have to wait for six months to see if this thing's going to close up, right?”

Yeah, I came back thinking, “Man, I'm about to get cracked the [ __ ] open.” And that bubble got pinned up, man! Wow! When they go through, maybe they forced it through with your mind? It may add something to visualize.

Holy [ __ ] man, that is crazy.

Yeah, it's crazy. I went on a ruck run with a hole in your heart. Well, I did it for several years. I said, “[ __ ] it, keep on going.”

Man, that's amazing. Now, after all said and done, everything's good now?

Yeah, everything's—I mean, I’m sure it’s supposed to pop up in my [ __ ] ass not to do that, you know? Everything’s good right now. I’m always waiting for the next thing to pop up and I hang on the same way. I was attack it, but yeah, I said right now I'm in the best shape of my life. I’m 43 years old. Just turned 43 on February 17th.

I am in the best shape of my life. I'm not knocking on wood because life [ __ ] it, life comes at you, dude. So, right [ __ ] knocking on wood, come at me! I mean, I would think that you would be a go-to guy for injuries.

Yeah, I give anybody— I've had ‘em all. I found when you broke the world record for chin-ups, didn't you rip your arm apart? Pull-ups. Yeah.

So, if you pull up the picture, man, there's a picture of my hand—you'll see. I don't know what it is. Pull-ups are hands out. Hands out. And chin-ups are hands right—hands forward.

So, I failed three times before I finally got it the third time. The first time I ripped the [ __ ] on my forearm and then the second time— you’ll see there's a picture of my hand and it's a third-degree burn.

So, that's my hand! Oh Jesus, man. What in the [ __ ] is going on? You look like you got bit by a wolf!

So what's funny about that is, you see that? That doesn’t create after one pull-up. So, if you can imagine the pain of—because you know, you have one contact point, that’s it.

Mmm, you like running; you can overcome it because you have these big giant legs. Right, it’s different when you have these little fragile punk-ass hands touching the bar.

Now, imagine four thousand thirty pull-ups. How many times you’re coming off that bar? Right! Now weigh 207 pounds at the time. So, I was a bigger guy. I'm like 195 or 185 now. So, I was almost 22 pounds heavier.

So, I was a lot bigger than I am right there. Man, you look pretty [ __ ] good then! So, you were doing it in sets of five? Sets of five.

So, as you see, I have these different people who are witnessing. You have to have your number there to make sure that you're, you know, qualified for the Guinness Book of World Records. That's 1450.

I have a long way to govern— another four thousand and fifteen pull-ups to go!

Hurt! Jesus Christ! So, yeah. And how long did you do this? Over 24 hours.

It was seven, so I brought it at seventeen.

Wow! And I was [ __ ] over it! What did it feel like in the last chin up? You know what? Actually, here's a video that we have and I was chasing this guy named Steven Highland.

So, this guy named Steven Highland had the record and the video is my last three pulls for broke the record. I'm talking so much [ __ ] there’s another [ __ ] I’m like, “Hey [ __ ] you thought I was good? Get it? Huh? I told you [ __ ] ass [ __ ] I’m coming after you. I’m here now.”

Is this me talking [ __ ]? It's a cool video, but I felt— um, I felt nothing. I was just happy I didn’t have to do anymore.

I just did 67,000 pull-ups in nine months of training.

First record was for 4000 and the failures. So, I did the first time in September, failed miserably on the second try, shot at twenty-five hundred and eighty-eight or something like that.

Filmed me for millions of people! Two months later, November tried again— failed again. Two months later, on January 19th, I finally [ __ ] got it!

So, after I got it, it wasn’t like, “I’m happy!” It was like, “I gotta do more [ __ ] pull-ups!”

Roger that. So, it was— I had a [ __ ] check that [ __ ]!

But you were doing them when I got here today! You know why? Because now it’s a party, dude! I don’t like doing this!

We could get somebody knocks them out? You don't like doing them?

So, you got to do them? That’s my whole life, isn’t it? Like, someone gets drunk on a certain whiskey, like if they smell it, they’ll get disgusted, like, like Jagermeister or something like that. They smell it, they go, “Ugh!”

Right? Is that what it's like with you with chin-ups?

Along with a lot of things? Yeah, right now I’m like running out— like, and people don’t believe it. But, you know, I was a big guy twice in my life.

So, hence the reason why I just don’t like running, man. It hurts, it’s brutal. It sucks going out and I’m gonna be gone for two hours or I’m gonna be going for 49 hours, right?

Running on a one-mile track? [ __ ] I'm not crazy, man. It sucks!

I mean, you know, people put me in this category of “You must be some crazy guy who loves it.” No man! No! That’s why I do it, though!

That’s the only way to couch your [ __ ] brain, man. I want me to get hard. A lot of people take these classes on mental toughness.

I even teach classes about visualization, self-talk, eat an elephant one bite at a time, breathing control.

Roger that. You gotta put yourself in hellacious situations.

It's a lifestyle. How are you going to react? How are you gonna react?

All that training goes out the [ __ ] door when you’re in the [ __ ] cold water and you’re [ __ ] miserable.

It’s the first hour of a hundred thirty hours of Hell Week and that first wave goes over your head, and you’re the coldest you’ve been in your life.

And your mind goes from hour one to hour one [ __ ] thirty. All that [ __ ] self-talking [ __ ] dude, you ain't think about anything but getting the [ __ ] out of here.

But if you live this [ __ ] on a daily basis and you know how to calm your mind down, this self-talk will help.

All that stuff will help. But usually, we react. We have pain, we have suffering.

We react, and we react about getting the [ __ ] out of here. We gotta go! It’s those people who are able to control that [ __ ] feeling and [ __ ] fight and say, “No! I'm a [ __ ] There's a way through this! It's not going to be your forever!”

I’m not cold right now. I let the three of them. I'm not cold now! I'm in a nice warm studio with you!

You gotta think about that [ __ ]. It’s just going to end. It’s going to end! But we don’t know that; we don’t think that at that time it’s going to last forever.

And then you get to sit back on Friday, there by walking across the, you know, back on the grinder, all the 16, 17 guys that graduated Hell Week.

And you have a chance to watch these guys victorious, and then you get the chance to think about that.

You take that hot warm shower— first thing that comes to your [ __ ] mind is, “Why the [ __ ] did I quit?”

So, what keeps me going? I’ve quit several things. I know what’s on the back end of the [ __ ] quitting.

It’s a lifetime of thinking about “Why the [ __ ] did I do that?” And I ain't [ __ ] doing that.

There’s something about talking to a guy like you that a lot of people hope that you're gonna say some magic thing that’s gonna click in their brain.

Everybody gets change who they are. Like, “What is it? What is the thing?” That’s why people go to these self-help conferences and they take these classes and they hope that someone’s gonna say something that changes the way their mind works.

It’s hilarious to me. It is; it’s kind of hilarious to me too.

But what is also hilarious is that what you’re saying is that you have to do those things. You have to suffer. You have to live in it. You have to be comfortable in it, and then maybe some of that [ __ ] will help you a little bit along the way. Period.

And I went to— when I was still a recruiter, I got invited to MIT. Smart ass [ __ ] there, man. I'm not that! I’m just a garanimal! Dumber knuckle-dragger.

And there was this guy, I forget his name, but he was like the top head guy— old white guy, you know, all genius doubt.

And we were on this panel and they were asking us all these questions about the mind, mental toughness and [ __ ] and he was answering them. I wasn’t answering any questions.

Now, I’ll never forget, he was just answering off of theory. He never put his [ __ ] ass in [ __ ]—you read a bunch of [ __ ] books and you think that you know how the [ __ ] mind works.

I’ve gone through hell just as a kid and then all the way up until now. Right? So I know, so that theory is [ __ ]!

Yeah, there’s a lot of good stuff out there. You can read from people, but I have lived hell.

And when you put yourself in hell, that's the only time you can figure out how to get through that [ __ ].

You can't read somebody else's book about some theory on how to do [ __ ]— some guy who was set up in his nice warm office and read and wrote some book with a nice cup of coffee in the [ __ ] hand!

No! I want to see that guy who immersed himself in [ __ ] hell and he thought about quitting and leaving him and his wife and his kids.

And why am I here? Is it worth it? All this crazy [ __ ]!

It still said, if I found a way to get through it, so basically that's the bottom line of it all.

We all want to read about how we can quickly get somewhere. That’s why that six-minute abs and [ __ ] is so powerful. Did you make some results from it?

They’re not permanent! The permanent result comes from you [ __ ]!

I say it all the time. You have to suffer. You have to make that a tattoo on your [ __ ] brain, so when that hard time comes again, you don’t forget it!

You may forget it for a second, but you can go back in the cookie jar. Call it! It's something that we've all endured.

I call it the cookie jar and we often forget how hard we are, but you gotta reflect back, take a cup of sighs, reflect.

I've been through this; I've been through that. And then remind yourself, “I’m a bad [ __ ]!”

And then you can get to do that [ __ ]! But if you don't believe it—you've never endured [ __ ]—you're just blowing smoke, man, and you're not gonna get to anything.

What was this guy saying? Look, what was his theories that he was throwing out there?

His theories was about—I forget exactly what it was—was there some about what the mind does under stress and how we can't—he said how we can't do something.

And I did it! I did what he said we couldn’t do!

Like, what was he saying he couldn't do? It was somebody—if you're born a certain way, you can't become this way.

He was totally saying that with Who I am now. Like I had to be born with some—not genetic power or some gift from God. But I had to have some kind of special gift—had to have some kind of special gift.

I forget what set me off, but was that we had to be— to be somewhere you had to be born with it? What was the concept?

And I know what I was born with, and I know the battle that I had in my mind. So when he said it—he sat there, looked at my face, and someone in the crowd asked me a question.

Yeah, I totally contradicted everything he said! And I was like, “Nah, man!” I mean, I [ __ ] know for a fact that you can be this [ __ ] up dude—like really [ __ ] up dude.

And with the right mindset, it sounds so easy!

With the right mindset! Doesn’t sound easy!

It's not what you're saying; it sounds very simplistic. The answer is, “Right, you can!” But you have to go into the dark chambers that we often shut off, and you gotta open them up.

You can open up and fight that [ __ ] demon! Get in there, talk to that [ __ ] and say, “What’s up?”

And we often take that—we all like to take this four-lane highway, the easy highway. It has [ __ ] signs; it has restaurants.

We all love that four-lane highway! We always step over the shovel, and all I did was I picked up that [ __ ] shovel and that shovel, I made my own path!

And you may have big boulders and [ __ ] you may be getting towards a mile up the road faster than you, but going through this path of life, this journey over here that you make yourself—that's incredibly difficult.

But it comes out to the other end of that [ __ ] is some glorious [ __ ] that you can’t even explain to people.

And we’re afraid! Bottom line, most of us—even the people have all these theories and [ __ ]— it's easier to accept the fact that “I’m just not good enough.”

I wasn’t made to do that! And yeah, some of us can’t be LeBron [ __ ] James.

But I'll tell you right now, man, we can do a lot more when it comes to this pure long guts and willpower!

And getting through [ __ ]—we have a lot more with a lot more than we think we have!

Yeah, the problem with a guy like that with his theory is his theories are based on results, and those results are based on human beings.

And most human beings—there are certain people that are born with certain gifts—like a guy like LeBron James is a physical talent, you know, Jon Jones in MMA— obviously physical talent.

But there’s when you look at someone who’s super successful, you always assume that it has to be because of some sort of physical gifts. Because people look at themselves, and I’m sure this doctor, this old dude probably had a little gut and probably looked a little tiny and weak shoulders.

And probably thought, “Well, there are certain people that are just mesomorphic.” And probably broke it down with all these scientific terms, right? You know, they just have fast-twitch muscle fibers, and they say all this crazy [ __ ] that’s true at the very highest levels of the winners!

Right? But it doesn’t mean that you can't become that!

No, it just means that it's too painful for most people to go through, so very few people ever get there.

So if you look at the actual results, he would be correct, but he's not correct because he doesn't take the shovel.

Exactly! That’s not the moral! The story does not some easy lit up streetlights—right? Half with nice smooth roads—right?

It's a difficult [ __ ] where you're gonna fail and you’re gonna be in your head.

You could be saying, “I’m not good enough,” and it’s how you get through that! It’s how you get through that on a daily basis.

When that thing is saying, “Man, I’m 43, I’ve done so much…” You start to become civilized.

The refrigerator gets full. You start getting—making money, and you start, “I’m not getting cold anymore! I’m retired.”

What’s in at forty? People shouldn’t be playing basketball or football or beating them up.

You start to believe this [ __ ] and it becomes in your [ __ ] mind. Like there are people who are retiring, you know, at 40-something years or 37 years old. At 43, I'm still putting in a hundred-mile weeks, still doing thousands of pull-ups, thousands of push-ups because I'm not allowing myself to become civilized.

The worst thing that can happen to a man is to become civilized. You lose that [ __ ] fight. You lose that “Why the [ __ ] am I doing this?”

[ __ ] I'm good! You ain't good, man! You ain't never [ __ ] arrived!

And that’s just my mentality. You may have more, but you never [ __ ] arrive.

You want to be uncommon—a most uncommon people! Period!

Uncommon amongst uncommon people is one of the greatest ways to put it! That's it! Like if you’re—like for me, what got me in trouble with the Navy SEALs, is I want to be one so bad! So bad!

I fought my ass off! Yeah! I saw them as uncommon people—very uncommon!

But once you become a Navy SEAL, you’re all Navy SEALs. So guess what happens? You’re [ __ ] common again!

I wanted to be uncommon amongst uncommon people. I wanted to be the guy! I don’t care if you [ __ ] like me or not!

And when you're an alpha male and you're against other alpha males, we eat our own!

Alpha males eat their own!

Now, I love that [ __ ]! Let’s [ __ ] go, man! I want to eat a man!

I’m all about that kind of mentality! But I was sometimes—take it to another level.

Now, I went part of a good old boy network? I don't wanna be part of that!

I want to be David [ __ ] Goggins for too long in my life and it got me in trouble!

For a time I left, I wanted to be accepted. Growing up, I lied! I [ __ ] did what I could for if you [ __ ] liked UFC, and I didn’t!

I love it! I love it, man! Let’s go [ __ ] watch! Be my friend, be my buddy!

That [ __ ] weak-ass [ __ ]! I found out through this path of life who is David Goggins. Who am I? So going through it all, I did it alone.

There was no [ __ ] trophy on the [ __ ] wall, on the mantel! That trophy is my [ __ ] brain!

No one helped me get—you know? I pay my [ __ ] bills! No one did [ __ ] for me!

No one ran those [ __ ] miles, lost that [ __ ] weight with the hood! I suffered on my own and developed this man who said Who I am—a very competitive, ultra-competitive dude!

That’s what I call that personal sovereignty! Exactly!

There’s not a lot of people that have that! That's me! And there’s a lot of people that change who they are depending upon what people want from them.

And that’s—that’s me!

Yeah, that’s important, man! Most people struggle their whole life to find out who they are. Struggle their whole— their whole life to find out what defines them, what they actually enjoy and what they don’t.

You start putting yourself in situations that suck—you’ll find yourself!

Yeah! You’ll find it real quick!

That is the thing, right? And that’s one of the things that I have gotten from paying attention to you.

What you’re preaching, what you’re talking about is finding yourself through struggle.

It’s the only way to find yourself! You don’t find yourself if you like best present and you [ __ ] press all the [ __ ] time!

What are you finding out if you like to swim?

That’s all you want to do is swim—what are you finding out?

People always—I say people talk about triple down on your [ __ ] strengths, right? That’s the [ __ ] weakest [ __ ] in the world!

No! Triple down on your [ __ ] weaknesses! Yeah!

Find out something about yourself! You right know that you’re good [ __ ]—you know the happy [ __ ]!

Right? That’s why I’m on my Facebook page. Because why don’t you talk about good times?

You don’t need a [ __ ]—you don’t need to! I’ll tell you how to get through the times that suck!

Real life! This is real life!

Ninety percent of your life will suck! Ten percent will be [ __ ] happy!

You may be lucky! God, you have a lot of [ __ ] money, have a great ass woman—all this [ __ ]!

Trust me, one-on-one with that [ __ ] guy! He’s missing something! His life still sucks!

That he hasn’t faced something that bothered him his whole [ __ ] life! Something is still eating that [ __ ] up! Almost everybody!

Everybody’s eating you the [ __ ] up!

But maybe you found a good way—how I did growing up on how to ignore that voice that’s saying, “You ain’t facing some [ __ ]!”

Period, man! I’m not special! I just stopped listening!

I listened to that voice! It was why I talk so [ __ ] aggressively!

People said, “Man, do you believe in God? You cuss so much!”

When I say [ __ ], it’s letting you know what I’m thinking!

If I try to make it all pretty and [ __ ]—that’s not what my life was!

It was a violent, violent struggle daily to get where I’m at today. I’m not gonna water it down like a watered-down [ __ ]!

Wasn’t fun! Ain’t fun today! I'm happy!

Don’t you think that your happiness is probably elevated by the amount of pain that you’ve gone through?

A hundred percent! So the amount of suffering that you understand, the amount of pain that you’ve gone through makes you appreciate the happiness and the beautiful moments with much more intensity!

That’s what weak people miss about my story! Weak people hear this soft kid, “I’m a guy; he must be miserable!”

“Oh my God! What the hell is wrong with him?”

You're missing the [ __ ] story! You're not listening to the story, man!

Look what I overcame! If that doesn’t put some badge of honor tattooed in your [ __ ] brain for the rest of your life, you can die today talking to Joe Rogan!

You’re missing the story, man! Am I happy? What the [ __ ] do you think?

Don’t miss the—don't misunderstand the past and wish!

I speak for not being intensely happy! I’m the happiest person in the world, but I'm not done.

So, I’m not gonna speak to you like, “Oh man, everything is great!”

No! I have a lot more [ __ ] to do— a lot more [ __ ] to do!

Well, this is in the same use of the word that you used—the Warrior’s mentality, the Warrior’s life, right?

This is the way that you can keep balanced and sane, right? And keep a good grip on who you are!

Period! And like there’s a quote that was said—I don’t know who said it, but it was a great quote.

This guy said, “Going into combat, going into war, out of the hundred men that go into war, ten of you [ __ ]—be there! Eighty of them are just targets; ten do most of the fighting; one is a warrior.”

And it’s a true quote to life! I saw it going through training! I saw it everywhere I went!

There are so many people who just show up to life that shouldn’t even [ __ ] be around!

And there are a few people who do all the work!

I wanted to be part of that nine, and I’m working towards being that one! And that’s how I live my life!

Now, what are you doing with your life these days?

Right now, I keep the same. I'm very routine. I get up every morning, I run, I go to the gym, and then at nighttime, I stretch out.

I am just trying to develop a business; it’s costing me a lot of money trying to do that.

I’m just getting out—I’m an introvert, so I never want to get on social media—I’m not big on that!

I’m big on being with yourself! I believe all these [ __ ] cameras and phones and [ __ ]— it takes you away from the most powerful thing in the world, which is your [ __ ] mind!

So I try hard to continue to grow that! I’m trying to break a record again.

I’m trying to cross Death Valley as fast as possible, top of Mount Whitney.

And I'm constantly trying to put goals in for me. But the biggest thing is, I’m trying to find more of myself.

And the only way I can find more is to silence the world out as much as I can because it's getting busier every day!

It's getting faster! And the faster it gets, the more you are missing who the [ __ ] you are!

So I trapped my own mind a lot and said, “Look, man! I put my phone away! I’ll put [ __ ] away!”

And I go dark! I go dark a lot! And it’s because I have to find out!

I’m on a journey of life, and we all have a different journey.

I want to be in my [ __ ] pine box, and I believe your spirit lives forever—it’s too [ __ ] powerful!

No way in hell that thing dies when you die!

I want to be able to look back on my life and I’m all dead and be so [ __ ] proud of myself! Forever!

This is all temporary [ __ ] to me! I want to be forever proud of who I was as a man, and change who I used to be—the liar, the insecure guy, the guy who can... whatever!

I want to be proud! But if I died now— if I die at 84, die at 9800—I want to look at myself as proud of myself.

Don’t you think that also, like we were saying—that because you’ve gone through so much struggle, you appreciate happiness?

True happiness!

Do you think that you appreciate discipline because you weren’t disciplined? Do you think you appreciate the hard work you put in because you used to be weak?

Yes, I appreciate self-discipline! Yes! I never had a crazy thing about—what you know, you say that I have a [ __ ] who can wake me up at 3 o’clock in the [ __ ] morning and say, “Hey, you gotta get your [ __ ] in.”

I had no trainer! I had a nutritionist! It was the self-discipline that I had to survive!

Not survive! I was weak to thrive!

No one said, “Man, you’re 297 pounds! Man, I wanna help you out!”

I mean, you’re [ __ ]—you’re not smart! I’m going to help you out!

I had to work at all this [ __ ]! I had to overcome!

And self-discipline is everything! If you don’t have it, I don’t look at you!

Right now, I know you’re capable of more! It’s not discipline so much for me!

It’s all on you! It’s all on you!

The self-part—it was big! We need someone to hold people accountable?

[ __ ] that [ __ ] man! [ __ ] that [ __ ]!

We count on people too much to get us through [ __ ]! And we look to our right, we look to our left, we’re looking for help.

And if you can build that self—you can build that total accountability in oneself, and it’s not about being selfish!

I’m trying to create a better me! So hopefully people who are hearing this are taking it the right way can say, “I can run a mile! Anybody can run a 205 [ __ ] mile!”

Doing for Venice—it ain’t about all that [ __ ]!

She doesn’t matter! I want you to see how [ __ ] far you can go, and that’s all it's about—yourself!

And that’s where it all comes from, Willis!

And I guarantee you’ve already done that! What you experienced from watching that television show and with what got you out the door, what got you to sort of take the first steps to change your life—will you experience by watching Rocky?

What you experienced of inspiration—those are critical for people!

They need to know that someone’s done something that’s greater than they could imagine themselves doing!

And they want to take a step towards trying to be better! That inspiration is gigantic!

And sometimes it comes across as corny! You know, people read it too much online and it becomes—it drowns out; you lose that—the meaning gets lost!

I mean, there’s a lot of posers because a lot of people are out there that are pretending that they’re trying to offer up inspiration or a true, honest account of their experiences.

But really what they’re trying to do is say something that’s gonna get likes! Right?

You know, they’re trying to say things that they think people are gonna go, “Yeah! Double high five!”

Right?

You know, there’s a thing that people are doing when they’re just trying to just get social cred!

I said—yes, social media is, “Man, I’m gonna paint you the picture of my fake life!”

Right?

Right? Right?

I paint you a picture of my [ __ ] real life!

Yeah! Period! Like it or not, man! But that real life is fuel for people, right?

It’s fuel for me! I mean, I die!

I love that [ __ ]! I live off of it!

There are a lot of people that I follow online, and you're one of them that I can get something out of!

I could watch a short clip of you talking—I’m sure clips of this podcast—people gonna play these clips and go for [ __ ] crazy runs afterward!

Right?

Well, hope so! [ __ ] Yeah!

Uh-huh!

You don't even have to hope; it's gonna happen!

That’s good! That’s good!

What is this business you're doing?

Well, it’s my own Goggins LLC. Basically, I’m investing in myself! I’m invested in myself!

And I hope that this story can change somebody’s life—not to be me, ‘cause it ain’t about me!

And I try to be as real as I can because we’re all [ __ ] in this world; we’re all hurting!

And I try to take away all titles you want to give me— that, you know, I did not come from that [ __ ]—that’s right!

To be so authentic and so real about my own insecurities, my own faults, my—this being a [ __ ] up person.

I'm not the best at anything. I'm not! I’m not gifted! I’m just driven!

And it's all about trying to share that message with people. This is all about, you know, I speak to a lot of people and that’s what I do now.

And how are you doing it as a business?

I do something more of motivational speaking, but you know, right now I’m not really trying to make a lot of [ __ ] money.

I’m just trying to build the brand! I want to be authentic as possible because I don’t want to build it too fast!

Because my biggest fear in life is people can rewrite through a [ __ ] that’s not real!

I do it all the time! Like a lot of people have these great quotes and they mass produce!

I can’t mass-produce something man! I mean, they had these great quotes and [ __ ]— but are you living that [ __ ] which you just quoted?

And how powerful it may sound, are you getting up every [ __ ] morning and you’re not working out?

Whatever! Are you really getting the [ __ ] after it?

Are you just talking to motivate people?

Right? And I don’t want to be that guy who talks to pretend that you’re getting after it!

And people make this big money over here on the side, which I’ve made a lot.

And they talk this [ __ ] and they're off until it's gone, right?

And all flimsy and tall, man! You know, it's all this [ __ ]!

Right, man! [ __ ] wake up, get after it! Live what you're saying!

And then it comes—people can see! When I talk, the reason I talk so [ __ ] passionately is ‘cause I’m reliving my [ __ ] life!

I’m reliving this morning when I got up and I wanted to do that [ __]—I’m reliving everything I did!

And I can't speak to you like, “Oh, calm.”

Right? [ __ ] sucks! It sucks, man!

So whenever I start talking about, like, after this podcast, you’ll see, man! God, you’re so calm right now!

What the [ __ ] is wrong with you?

I’m not going back through that [ __ ] man! I’m not!

I’m not going back through the suffering—and [ __ ] that it took to become Who I am today!

Some story!

So I built this brand to the point where I can slowly hopefully make people from motivated to driven!

Because motivation is crap!

[ __ ] people right now, maybe listen to this [ __ ]—they’ll be motivated to go run—if it’s closed somewhere where they’re at, a lot of my firsts will shut that door and go back inside!

That’s motivation! It comes and goes as how you feel!

If you and your wife are good, if you and your kids are good, if you’re good at work—you’re motivated!

I like the [ __ ] whose life is imploded and ain’t got [ __ ] in life and says, “I still got [ __ ] to get after today, man!”

It’s what it’s about!

So that’s when you move from motivation to driven to obsessed!

And I want people to realize once you get to this portion of over here, the driven and obsessed part, you're unstoppable!

This commitment that you have to authenticity is one of the reasons why people are connected to your messages.

That’s one of the reasons why what you’re saying—you don’t want to grow it too fast.

You don’t want it to be [ __ ]—you’re terrified of that thing! Just like we were talking about with weak people. You’re terrified of seeing that weakness in yourself!

Right? You know, we all see that! We've all seen motivational things that are [ __ ]!

We've all talked to people that are talking and you realize there's nothing really that they’re connected to!

They’re not really connected to their words! Their words are just a bunch of words they’ve pieced together because they sound like something that someone who’s, you know, enlightened on the subject would say!

Right?

Yeah, it doesn’t connect at all!

So your struggle now is to figure out how to stay you and get the message out, but still be fully connected to that message, right?

That's... you know, it's not so much a struggle!

Because I'm not really about—I'm not driven by the business! I'm not!

I'm not doing by trying to be! I make a very small salary from being retired from the military. That's all I need!

So I’m not fast— I'm a minimalist!

[ __ ] give me a backpack of [ __ ] ground and sleep on and a pull-up bar and a [ __ ] some running shoes and a Subway sandwich with some [ __ ] and I'm [ __ ] straight!

So it’s— um, I believe in patience! I’m a patient dude!

I can watch the piece of grass grow for 20 years because I know that this is how you get somewhere in life! By being that monk-like mentality!

And being able to watch something grow very calmly, patiently—and that’s all I’m doing right now!

About money, it’s about people knowing me! I’ll keep you like me—whoever wants to hear this is out there!

So your goal is to grow this, right? Slowly! Very slowly!

And your goal is to grow this in order to impact people! Period!

That’s it! It’s not about me!

What do you get out of impacting people?

It's a good question! I don't—I don't get anything out of it!

I’m a tool!

But you must get something! There must be personal satisfaction, must be a connection to those people!

There must be—it must be enriching to you!

It's hard to connect with people because there’s quite a few now that are coming in, right?

It’s my duty! It’s my duty to share my—it’s kind of like it’s somebody who discovered a new earth, you know?

And discover the people on it, the water source and the food source!

I discovered a whole nother part of your [ __ ] brain that a lot of people don’t even know about!

It’s my job by being the [ __ ] on this journey and being a discovery person, being the person that maybe I discovered this part!

I discovered a very important part!

I haven’t met many people that have discovered this part!

I’m sure there are a lot out there, but it’s my job now to take these weak people in the category that I was in and say, “Uh-uh! Stop reading the [ __ ]! Stop listening to the [ __ ].”

And if my story of success can impact somebody, it is my job! It is my duty to share this too!

As much as I’m not really fond of it, I’m the kind of guy that wants to sit in the [ __ ] room and just be me!

Just be me alone by myself! That’s who I am!

I have to get uncomfortable and tell people all this [ __ ]! You think it feels good?

Tell me about it! I’m a fourth-grade reading level in high school!

I stuttered! I lied to people to be their [ __ ] friends! I didn’t feel good!

It doesn’t feel good at all!

But maybe someone’s doing the same [ __ ] and maybe they can realize, “Wow! That [ __ ] was a piece of [ __ ] and he [ __ ] now is a Navy SEAL, tired guy and runs miles and was 297 pounds and pathetic [ __ ]!

And Wow! If he would say, “Why are you talking so?”

It’s the [ __ ] truth! I was a [ __ ] pathetic [ __ ] man!

People cannot say that to themselves!

It's—we have to choose these great [ __ ] magical words that make people feel good!

Tell yourself the truth! If something— cause you’re [ __ ] fat!

They may be bullying you, but you might be [ __ ] fat!

It’s life, man! Take it for what it’s worth and change it!

And that terrible feeling when someone does tell you they’re fat, you can use that as fuel!

Period! And that’s all this is about!

And where it goes, if it goes somewhere and whatever—I don’t give a [ __ ]!

Well, you said something that I think of when I run, and it’s that most people quit at 40%.

I said—that’s not 40% rule, man! I love that about 40% rule, man!

And I really developed that through my heart surgeries!

And I developed that through that first hunch at my run is I thought I had given 100%!

The house on that chair at Mile 70, I was [ __ ] up! I thought I’d given 100%!

And to go that last... I go, “Man, there had—the—you know, there was—I wasn’t even near 100%!

So I came up with this thing called the 40% rule! It’s basically where you— it’s like a car! You put a governor on a car!

And they said the car can go 130; that governor stops the car at 91! And you’re driving thinking, “Man, I wanna [ __ ] Florida, but I can’t go! I can’t go any faster!”

We do it to our brain! We put a governor on our brain!

The second we feel pain, discomfort, suffering—all those words that we hate to say ‘cause we’re in this happy, peaceful world we live in now—we stop!

We slow down! And if you can get through these different barriers and gain five percent, two percent, three percent, that 40% becomes 60!

That 60% becomes 70 and 80 and 90 and then you’re hopefully one day near a hundred!

I don’t—I don’t know many people who probably add a hundred!

I mean, we think we’re there, but there's so much more!

It isn’t a hundred at death's door, though! I love that!

I think it’s true! I think that’s 100% true!

I think when you were laying in that tub—you knocked on a door!

That is—that is a hundred percent true!

No one has ever—if that is our position!

I didn’t give a hundred percent in that 101-mile run I did for the first time!

So that’s the scary thing! That’s the scariest thing in the world!

I didn’t die! You probably gave 99.99999!

Man, dude! I don’t know how to end this any better than that!

So let’s just wrap this up. If people want to find your stuff, what's the best place to go and look for it?

I’m just at David Goggins, man! Social media, Instagram, Facebook.

I don’t tweet that much stuff out because I write these—I write messages, and I always link that, you know, on Twitter to my Facebook and Instagram. But it’s just at David Goggins!

It was an honor and privilege! Thanks, like your lunch!

Man, I really, really, really appreciate it! Thank you, Dave!

David Goggins, ladies and gentlemen! Go after it, you [ __ ]!

Come on! If that doesn’t fire me up, [Applause] [Music] [Music]