Transcription
Small talk can be a drag, but it's possible to turn those boring everyday conversations into meaningful ones where you learn about someone and really connect with them. That's why in this video, we're going to explore what you can learn from some of the best conversationalists of our time about moving from small talk to deep connections, so you never have to worry about being boring.
Our first point is to open people up by letting them know that you're really happy to be speaking with them. You can see Joe Rogan do this in his recent interview with Lex Fridman. "I love being able to talk to you and pick your mind about like you're out there coding these [ __ ] vehicles that are driving themselves, artificial life on wheels."
Letting people know that you're happy to be with them can take other forms as well. You can also effusively compliment their work and indicate that you'd like to see or hear more of it. "You want to keep going, dude? [ __ ] you go ahead, you just get—you've got to do the whole song." Or you can just straight up tell people that you love them. "Before we talk about anything, uh, beside my book, yeah, serious XM, I wanted to tell you how much I love you."
Regardless of the exact form, when you let people know that you appreciate and want more of them, it makes them invest more of themselves in the interaction. Now, saying that you're happy to be interacting with someone may seem obvious, but some of us do what Howard Stern admits that he did early in his career—in an attempt to garner respect. We act disinterested or unimpressed when talking to people. We restrain our excitement to not come across as beneath the other person.
Howard Stern, for instance, purposely didn't read up on his guests to assert his superiority when he didn't know who they were. "There's Sophia Vergara. Is she here? I believe she is. Hey now. And why is she here? Do you know? Because she's hot. Yeah, she's hot, that's why. Because Gary came in and showed me a picture of her and I went, 'Well [ __ ], I want to take a look. Why did she want to come? I have no idea. She must have a website or something. What else? What else do hot chicks have?'"
Being super cool and aloof can sometimes inspire people to work for your approval, but it won't help you move from small talk into something deeper. That's because people need to know that you'll give them the benefit of the doubt if they share something embarrassing or vulnerable, and the cool aloof guy can't be expected to do that. More on that later.
But keeping with the initial part of this conversation, if you want to shift from small talk to connection, you need to purposely steer towards the deeper conversational contexts. We all know that small talk tends to be on content like the weather, news, work, sports, or politics. What's very cool is that just about any of these content topics can be moved to a deeper context with one simple question: "What did it make you feel like?"
"I knew nothing. That was the most profound aspect. Like all of this stuff that you concentrate on every day is nonsense." Moving from the specifics of what happened to how that thing made someone feel immediately creates more opportunity for you to connect over the real stuff.
Of course, you don't have to say this phrase verbatim. Instead, anything that moves conversation towards feelings, motivations, or values can work. Here's just one example: "Talking about like physical stuff, like you get angry and get anxiety because like you don't—you let yourself get overweight. Like how much does that [ __ ] with you, and how much would you give to not have that anymore?"
Now, to be fair, people still won't always be forthcoming with their feelings, motivations, or values, which is why this third tool is very useful, and it's called parroting. It's simply repeating back the last few words of what someone has just said.
"Of the bottom, and what I was so fascinated by, yeah, is they didn't think consequence. They just thought, 'Hey, I'm doing this,' and then they would do it, and then they just dealt with it. Where I—I was too much conscience. Too conservative."
"Yeah, yeah, you thought things through and said, 'Hey, this could end up being real trouble for me.' These guys just dove in."
You can use this in your own life early on in conversations when people are sharing what they're studying or doing for work. Repeating their title back to them or their major with curious interest can get them to elaborate on how they like what they're doing or why they chose it in the first place. And now you successfully move towards feelings and motivations with just one little trick.
Now, this takes us to the fourth point, and this one is a bit more challenging for most people. You have to realize that when you do get people to open up, they may share something they're not totally proud of. In these instances, you need to avoid judging them. Instead, you can watch Howard actually be an advocate for the things that his guests are ashamed to have felt or done.
For instance, Charlize Theron revealed that when she was young, a Hollywood producer came on to her in an uncomfortable way at a casting at his house. Though she would have loved to have told him off, she shut down emotionally and escaped quietly. Howard proactively helps her make sense of her reaction in this next clip.
"I'm not that kind of girl. Like why did I not tell him to go [ __ ] himself? Like it made me so angry. You know why? Because in the moment, if you're a decent human being, even you can't believe what's happening to you. Yeah, and you feel like you should be polite. Yeah, it's weird. And then afterwards you go, 'Why am I so [ __ ] polite?'"
"Exactly. Why am I such a good boy or good girl?"
Similarly, Howard preempts the jealousy that he assumes Lindsay Lohan must have felt about other actresses getting roles that she could have. "When you see like Emma Stone, who's got like a similar look to you, or let's say Jessica Chastain, I can tell you've thought about this. Like when you see some of those movies, don't you sit there and go, 'I can [ __ ] do those?'"
"Yes, right. Yes."
"It's gotta be driving you nuts."
The point here is that we're all usually more insecure, jealous, selfish, or fearful than we let on in conversation. We hide these parts of ourselves because we think it's necessary to being liked. But in order to connect deeply with someone, we need to take off the masks that we use to fit in.
When this happens, you don't want to signal to the other person that they need to put the mask back on by saying things like, "How could you do that?" or "I would never." Instead, a better response is to pause and take a moment when someone becomes vulnerable to acknowledge their courage.
Joe Rogan does this with a combat vet who talks in painful detail about his wartime injuries and what they've cost him physically and emotionally. "Someone like you truly understands the consequences of war, like the physical consequences in a way that none of us will understand. You know, it's very—not just it's brave of you to talk about this, but it's also so, so valuable. So valuable for everybody that hasn't served to understand what it really is. So thank you for that."
So in your own life, before you jump to react or give advice in these kinds of situations, just acknowledge someone's bravery first. It goes a long way to fostering connection.
Now, until now, everything we've covered has been about encouraging others to open up and connect with you. But if you're committed to having deeper interactions, you can't wait on other people to be courageous enough to share. You need to go there first.
That means that you reveal vulnerabilities and unflattering truths, even when you're not sure how they'll be received. Now, Howard is pretty special here. Over the years, he's spoken about so many of his personal issues on the radio—from his insecurity to jealousy to body image, including his shame at his smaller than average private parts.
So when guests come on, they note that they're not the only ones opening themselves up to judgment from the audience since Howard will out of nowhere say something like this: "I was at war with the world. I was—I was a guy who was very angry, and I was angry if anybody had a listener or an audience that wasn't mine."
When guests see Howard still standing and smiling after having so much of the world know his deepest insecurities and current struggles, they realize that they can open up too, even if it's in front of a massive radio audience.
And it's something they haven't spoken about publicly, like when Paul McCartney nonchalantly admitted who broke up the Beatles. "Who broke? You know, everyone has a theory. I know who broke it up. John. John did. And he tried to pin it all on you."
In your own life, the advice is simple yet can be very difficult to implement. It's that when you're in small talk and you're reminded of something embarrassing, don't filter. Share it without seeking any specific reaction from the audience.
When it's obvious that you're being both honest and non-judgmental about your own failings, you'll be shocked how quickly people match your candor. Obviously, this is easier said than done, and Howard admits he can only implement many of these habits as a result of years of psychotherapy.
Those gave him both the ability to be honest about his flaws and his appreciation for others, like we spoke about in point three. "I'm able to tell people what I think of them and how important they are without feeling ashamed. You know, just for so many years, I was afraid to feel attachment."
Therapy can be great, but of course, it can take a long time and a lot of money. So if the ability to be more open is something you're intrigued by, this final question is something to contemplate: Are you personally in touch with your own shadow?
Those thoughts and feelings that are often rejected by society and our own egos. Have you truly confronted your anger, jealousy, judgmentalness, grief, and shame? Or have you stuffed them down to function as normally as possible?
If you aren't in touch with everything that you are—the good and the unsavory—you will not connect deeply with people because you will always be wearing a mask. Techniques won't be enough to break through the small talk, and it's likely to remain safe and boring.
Not only that, you'll probably live with a subtle background anxiety that some disowned part of you might be discovered and you'll be cast out because of it. So ponder that question because it is massively important.
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