Transcription
Right now, as you and I sit here, we're living in the Ezekiel chapters. Ezekiel is happening right now. The dry bones are coming together right now. The breath might be coming in right now.
In horrible circumstances, Russia's got a mutual military agreement with the nation of Iran. Russia must defend Iran against Israel. Keep your eye on Russia right now like never before. Israel is God's prophetic time clock. But here's the question that everyone's asking: Is that time just about up?
Well, to find the truth, we need two things: one, The Book of Ezekiel; and two, the one and only Pastor Jack Hibbs. Welcome to "Can I Trust the Bible?"
My brother Raj, thanks for the invite! I'm so thrilled; this is going to be awesome! Anytime Israel's on the menu to discuss is over the top. You know, Pastor, I think Ezekiel 33-39 has to be one of the most interesting, fascinating parts of scripture, right up there with parts of Daniel and Romans. There's just so much happening, and I want, if it's cool with you, to unpack it.
For us Bible geeks, there are a few parts of scripture that we just want to talk about, like, I don't know, the Nephilim in chapter 6, or what's the mark of the beast? But one of the things that we really love to discuss is Ezekiel 38 and 39: the war of Gog and Magog.
Let me read something really fast. Ezekiel 38 says this: "Son of man, set your face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. Prophesy against him and say, 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws, and bring you out with your whole army.'"
I think the goal of this whole discussion is to give people kind of a comprehensive look at these crucial chapters in Ezekiel. From your perspective, what is happening with Gog and Magog?
I think this is what's happening. When you look through the chronology of what is called the eschatological review—this is God speaking, by the way—this is a great argument for the existence of God and the authority of the Bible. When God is speaking, He speaks prophetically. He tells you about future events that you might know that He is God.
He's revealing to us that in the last days, Israel will not only be a key player; it will be the epicenter. So right now, as you and I sit here, we're living in the Ezekiel chapters. Because when you look at this beckoning, this call, where God will bring out of the uttermost parts of the north a warrior nation that has a coalition of nations that are mentioned in Ezekiel by name, they are going to someday come against Israel, the land it will say if we keep reading of peace, a land that has been brought back by the edge of the sword and now lives in their own land once again.
Okay, so we're talking about God fulfilling His Word. You and I, Raj, are living in it right now. God's assembling His people. What are we looking for to know that we're getting close to this war of Gog and Magog?
This is one reporter's opinion. Right now, as you and I sit here, anyway, Israel is very strong. Israel is showing the world right now by its response and by its defense systems, Iron Dome. There is also, I'm not sure if this is well-known or not—it's not a secret, you can find it if you'd like—but there's the Iron Beam. Israel's been using it now.
The Iron Beam? Crazy. It is technology that impressed even DARPA here in the United States. It's like, what was that? Literally, Star Wars laser tag stuff—completely, absolutely true.
So Israel's defending itself fine. And so, I'm not sure when this program is going to drop, but some big things could have happened by the time it drops. Be that as it may, Israel is strong. This is one reporter's opinion.
As I say, the Bible tells us that the Ezekiel war will take place when Israel believes that it's living in peace. The word in Hebrew means an assumed peace. Right now, Israel is not in peace; it's strong, it's defending itself. The world is turning its back on Israel, and America better be careful in how she votes. I'm very concerned about this vote coming up because I want to be for Israel.
Be that as it may, it is possible, Raj, that we could be looking at where we see Iran dealt with in such a way where the Islamic nations back off. Israel is kind of bold in her peace, feels good about it, right? And then we see this radical attack that is led by this player Gog. The title of this individual is Gog, G-O-G.
Right, and I get it—people are saying this is the Ezekiel battle. I think we're super close to the setting up of the Ezekiel battle. I think we're in the opening throes of it. The tee is placed in the grass, the ball is being put on the tee, and I see the club about ready to hit it. That's where I think we're at.
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob not only is worthy of our trust because He keeps His covenants, but the specifics that He mentions in here are all coming to pass, and it's like we're just looking at it and blown away totally by what He is accomplishing.
Let me read a couple verses out of Ezekiel. Ezekiel 34:13-14 says this: "I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements of the land. I will tend them in good pasture, and the mountain heights of Israel will be their grazing land. There they will lie down in good grazing land, and there they will feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel."
One more verse from chapter 36: "But you, mountains of Israel, will produce branches and fruit for my people Israel, for they will come home. I am concerned for you and will look on you with favor; you will be plowed and sown. I will cause many people to live on you; yes, all of Israel; the towns will be inhabited, and the ruins rebuilt."
So obviously, when God says Israel, He means Israel, not the church. Right? Not only does He make it clear that it's Israel and not the church. Now, here's where we might lose some viewers—He says Israel. He says Israel; He doesn't say Palestine. He doesn't say Canada; He doesn't say New York; He doesn't say the church; it is Israel.
In fact, Raj, I'll go this far: If God doesn't keep His promises, covenant promises to Israel, then there's no guarantee that He'll keep His promise of salvation to me. Amen. What is my foundation of my hope in Jesus Christ? He's the prophesied Messiah. I know He's my Lord and Savior because He was born in Bethlehem exactly as the prophet said He would. It's Isaiah 35 that tells me that He would raise the dead, open the eyes of the blind, and that He would loose the tongues of those that are mute—Isaiah 35, written 743 years before Jesus was born. That’s how I know He's the Messiah.
So when it says Israel, if you remove Israel, you have robbed God of His glory. You're calling God a liar—that He didn't really know how to be specific. And then the bottom line is this: If you hold to Israel being the church in what is known as replacement theology, which you pointed out, it's no wonder why you see the church in the tribulation period. That's how you see it, because you take out Israel, you put in the church. Well, then you've got to see this church going through the tribulation period versus the seven years you know is owed to Israel.
Daniel 9:24-27 is the last seven years of the prophesied 490 years given to Daniel. It cannot, in fact, it excludes the existence of the church, which is why in the Book of Revelation 4 you don't see the church again ever again until she appears in Revelation 19 in heaven. All suited up, she's quite amazing by the way—she's got a wedding gown on! But the Bible calls her His army.
We are going to be, somehow, the bride of Christ with, I don't know, a sword with a hand grenade on our hip—I don't know how that's going to look. But the Book of Revelation 19 says that we will come in the Second Coming with Christ.
You know, this show is an apologetic show. We've had brilliant apologists like Mike Lona, Sean McDow, Frank Turek, Lee Strobel, and I love it. I love discussing archaeology; I love discussing the science behind it. To me, my favorite apologetic is this: This is impossible. What God has done is literally impossible. But again, going back to the verses we keep reading about in Ezekiel, He keeps promising over and over and over that He was going to do this.
You know, one of the more famous verses in this section is the valley of dry bones. Obviously, you can make it allegorical if you want, and I'm sure there are plenty of practical ways that you can read the valley of dry bones and think, "Okay, I see what God has done in restoring me," blah blah blah. But in verse 11, He says this: "Then He said to me, 'Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel.'" Boom! How do we make that metaphorical?
I don't know exactly. You know, I think what's really interesting is that they say, "Our bones are dried up, and our hope is gone; we are cut off." But what's really interesting is if you look at this valley of dry bones—and I had this Messianic friend; he pointed this out to me when I was in Israel one day, and it just gave me chills—he said if you look at the valley of dry bones, what happens? Bone comes to bone, tendon comes to tendon, muscle comes to muscle. He's like, "Look at me, bone come to bone!" That's like the first wave of immigration coming back to Israel. This is true. Tendons coming back? You know, that's waves from Libya, Iran, and Turkey.
And then muscle comes to muscle? That's people from the United States and Russia. But what is missing? The breath—the ruach—which is also spirit. But what's really interesting is if you read it, it says—oh my gosh, I'm getting chills. I just, I love geeking out with scripture; I know you do too! We are kindred spirits!
It says, "Then He said to me, 'Prophesy to the breath, the ruach, the spirit, and say to that, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain that they may live.'" And this Messianic friend of mine says, "What's the word for breath? Ruach! Why have you?" He pointed at us. "Why have you come from all over the world, right? And randomly, you find yourself in Israel."
He's like, "You are a fulfillment of Ezekiel 37 verse 9! You are the four winds! The winds went out from Israel!" I'm half Indian, I think the power of Scottish—we would bring people from all over the world! Japan, Africa, you name it! And now we're coming back filled with the Holy Spirit and breathing on these dry bones! And I'm just like, "Yo! Like, how are we not losing our minds by clapping?" And yes, exactly, this is incredible!
So the question, Pastor Jack, is do you think there will come a time soon when all Israel will be saved? The Bible's very clear about this. At the culmination of these prophetic events, the whole point again—I will reference what Dr. John Walvoord said. The holy of holies of Bible prophecy from Old to New Testament is Daniel chapter 9.
And the beautiful thing about that, if anybody knows Daniel, you'll never understand the Book of Revelation without reading the Old Testament. That's why a lot of Christians don't understand the Book of Revelation.
The Book of Revelation is speaking to predominantly a Jewish community in a world where God is reestablishing His people and then, of course, refocusing on His people—all for the advent of the Second Coming of Christ. We love reading Revelation 19 onward.
The point is this: today, what you're saying is, as you point to this mural that's behind us, the whole point about God doing what He's doing right now and what you just said about the spirit, there are so many well-meaning but I do believe mistaken pastors and Christians who say things. They tell this to me: "Pastor Jack, you're wrong because look how unbelieving Israel is!"
You go to Israel, and it's quite shocking. Many of them deny the existence of God, and I tell them, "I've been there; I've seen it. It's quite crazy, isn't it?" It's prophetic! "Oh, what do you mean? No, it's illegitimate. The nation of Israel is not legit because it's not spiritual." And I said, "Friend, you're failing to read that He will draw them back into the land, and then He's going to breathe life into them. He would bring them back in unbelief makes it even more of a miracle when He breathes on them."
And I love this—listen! John's gospel from chapter 20 on—Jesus is resurrected; the disciples are freaking out; they're hiding out. Jesus appears, and I personally believe, again this is one reporter's opinion, where can you point to where was the first event of believers being born again? It wasn't the day of Pentecost because the Spirit came upon them; I believe it was in that room when Jesus showed up, and it says He breathed on them, and they received the Holy Spirit inside.
The word in Greek is "en"—He dwelt inside. There's a day coming when Israel will receive the Holy Spirit, and from that moment on, eventually, all Israel shall be saved. It's going to be a remnant; the Bible calls them a remnant, but they shall be saved.
And here's the fun part, and then I'll be quiet. Ever since October 7th, 2023, we have seen at our church, which is not all that far from Los Angeles, the Sunday following October 7th, we saw Jews showing up at our church. They haven't stopped showing up! We have seen Jews come to me. Yesterday, at church, two Jews from Brentwood came, husband and wife. They said, "Two months ago, we were watching your program and we gave our hearts to Yeshua because we understand that He's the Messiah of the Old Testament."
We've come! They're crying! I'm crying! They're telling me this yesterday before service. They got me going! What's going on? The bones are assembled! The sinew, the flesh, the breath is starting to come upon them! We're living it!
Oh my gosh, you know, if you—I point this out quite often on the show—that when you're leaving Yad Vashem, which is the Jewish Holocaust Memorial, it's excruciating walking through it. But if you walk towards the end and you go back towards the parking lot, there's this massive concrete structure, and on it, what do you have? You have Ezekiel.
This is just—you can't make this stuff up. Ezekiel chapter, is it 37, right? Verse 14? Yes! And on the wall, it says—I mean, massive, huge concrete—it's a huge font to it! It's like 2 feet high, and it says on this wall leaving the Holocaust Museum, "I will put my breath in you, and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land."
But that word again—"breath"—ruach! Oh my gosh! I don't mean to like get choked up, but this, to me, is—if you're watching this and this might be stepping on some toes—and you're a Jewish person, I understand why for centuries, millennium really, you and your people have not wanted to see Yeshua for who He is. The church hasn't been the greatest representative over the centuries to the Jewish people.
But if you look when I invite people that are Jewish to look at the New Testament, the first thing they will always say is, "My goodness, this is so Jewish!" It starts off with the Jewish genealogy! In the Book of Revelation at the end, what's Jesus called? "The lion of the tribe of Judah. The root of David." This is a thoroughly Jewish book.
And so, I truly understand why accepting Yeshua as the Messiah feels like you're dishonoring your ancestors. It's the opposite! Yes, it really is! And I think when you see that the whole world is coming against Israel, but who are the last, if you want to call it, defenders of the Jewish State? It's people that have been filled with the spirit of Yeshua!
And to me, it's like, guys, we can talk about biblical archaeology; we can talk about textual criticism, but like, do you see this? Am I the only one who's not losing? We should be freaking out that we live in a time where Ezekiel chapters 34, 35, to 39 are happening right now! The dry bones are coming together right now; the breath might be coming in right now.
In horrible circumstances, this is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—the God of Israel—exercising Himself on to the world. And guys, we were talking before we got started, the young church is scared to talk about prophecy.
Oh, The Book of Revelation? You know, God wins! Who cares? Controversial! This is my apologetics; this is my apologetics: the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is exercising His power on the global stage right now. Let's not miss it!
I don't even know my question, Pastor. I'm just excited! Do you remember, remember when you go to the Western Wall, over time, archaeologically, it was cleaned up, and all it is—and as they were looking at it, somebody recognized ancient, ancient Hebrew written on one of those great stones? Are you familiar with where I'm going with this?
I don't actually!
From where you stand, it's probably, I'm guessing, maybe at the 30-foot level; it's amazing! So this is what it says. In fact, you can probably go online and look at this—it's Isaiah 66, and this is what it says: "When you see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like grass. The hand of the Lord shall be known to His servants!"
That is inscribed in ancient Hebrew on the Western Wall, and archaeologists tell us that it was inscribed when the second temple period was obviously being built, when it was being done, because they've matched the font, they've matched the Hebrew to the ancient Hebrew of the time.
And you mention bones: God, it's on the Western Wall! When you see this, it's almost like the headline news on a page or something: "When you see this, you should rejoice, and your spirit shall flourish!"
When you see this, what does that mean? Look at this! What you pointed to! Isn't it amazing that you and I—we don't go on a tour to go see, for example, the Ark in Kentucky, a reenactment, right? Walt Disney did not build a reenactment of Jerusalem! Nobody has to!
You get on a flight out of L.A., you land in Tel Aviv, you drive 45 minutes, and you're standing right where this image is! It's real! It is absolutely a fact, and you honestly have to be foolish to deny that God is real and that His promises are somehow false. You've got to deny the absolute facts! And what I love about it is our faith is founded upon facts!
Okay, so we have Pastor Jack Hibbs here. Everyone comes to you, like Pastor, what's going to happen next? So Pastor—yeah, you know, this is a taped recording, so it might come out in a couple days or whatever, so we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. But what's going to happen next in the next couple weeks, next couple months?
Well, look, it's being talked about in every news outlet in the world, and pundits, and even Bible prophecy guys are talking about it, and that is Israel has announced—Israel's made it clear that they are going to respond in an overwhelming way regarding Iran. They've heightened that action, where just recently, an Iranian drone was targeting Benjamin Netanyahu's home.
And he's—there's— we're fine; the family's fine. But this only pushed this issue further. And when Israel acts, it is going to be overwhelming, and it will probably result in the nations of the world even cutting Israel off even more, which you and I know—that's even Bible prophecy being fulfilled!
Scripture says in the last days, all nations will turn against Israel. Even Ezekiel 38, as we're talking about, the nations of the earth appear to file a protest with the UN. They say, "Why have you come against Israel to take a spoil? Why are you doing this?" No nation seems to come to Israel's help in the Ezekiel battle. They seem to criticize or they ask Gog, "What's going on?"
But then the Bible tells us when that happens in Ezekiel 38, the Lord will rise up in His power and defeat those invading armies. What do you think when people that are believers, I guess, kind of caricaturize the prophetic when they're like, "Oh, that's some Left Behind movie. That's some—you know, you're overblowing this thing. Let's stick with the gospel."
Which, here's the thing: I think one of the things that really has broken my heart leading all these scripts to Israel is you can say things that are true and it not be the truth. Like, I think what's really interesting is how does the devil tempt Jesus in the wilderness with truth? He quotes scripture.
And so why should we care about all this prophetic stuff in the Bible? So, look, with some sarcasm, I'll answer it this way: Does the news frame the way that you read the Bible, or do you read your Bible and then look at the news and then come to a Biblical conclusion? In other words, do you have a Biblical worldview? There's a lot of professing Christians today that will come to their biblical conclusion; they think because it's been framed by somebody's narrative or by CNN or by Fox or by anybody else—it doesn't matter.
Here's what's different about us having a Biblical worldview. What's happening in the world and people's opinions and what they say and how they view things and “God told me” doesn't affect you and I. It's not that we're arrogant; it's just that what we're doing, what Paul said to do, we're judging everything against the scriptures.
So people will say to us, "How terrible! You two guys are! You're talking about war, and you're smiling!" What, we do apologize for our joy—not in war. We explain to you that our joy is the word of the Lord shall never fail! Amen!
Look, my heart's broken over my nation, but you know what? America, as all nations, they come and they go. But blessed be the name of the Lord! I'm an American, you know? Second or third—I'm first a believer. I'm a husband, right? And I'm a father, and I'm an American.
But a lot of people will put their American identity ahead of even scripture, and they'll say things like, "Well, God's not going to allow this to happen to America!" Right? Well, wrong! You said a very wise thing. Very wise people will take some truth and they'll dial down on it, and they'll make a mistake with truth.
You say, "How can you make a mistake with truth?" That's very simple. The cults make a mistake with truth; they quote truth out of context. So when you look at a verse out of the chapter and you don't realize what is in the context, you can create any kind of scenario you want.
Yeah. And you'll feel good about it, but in reality, you've yanked it out of the context, and thus you've taken truth and you've made it a falsehood because it's not the full truth. It's got to be in context.
You know, I think what you just talked about is in Ezekiel chapter 33. I was reading this last night and I was like, "Wow, what I'm about to read is heavy!" What I'm about to read is very heavy, and I don't—it's not out of condemnation—I’m guilty of this too, so this isn't shame on anyone, because this is shame on me.
But I think it's important because what I'm about to read—thank God you do not do before you read this! Yes, I have to tell you I taught on this passage, this verse yesterday at Sunday service. I don't believe there's coincidence; there's no Hebrew word for coincidence. God is speaking: "My people come to you as they usually do, and sit before you to hear your words, but they do not put them into practice. Their mouths speak of love, but their hearts are greedy for unjust gain. Indeed, to them, you are nothing more than one who sings love songs with a beautiful voice and plays an instrument well, for they hear your words, but they do not put them into practice."
My goodness! Ezekiel chapter 33 through 39 is the most loaded part of scripture, I think, in the entire Bible!
But you don't do that, Pastor! You put yourself out there, and thank God that you do. And that's one of the reasons we had to have you on the show, because you speak truth without thinking about how other people are going to view you.
But for my friend here watching who reads this and like, "Yeah, that's my church!" Or "I never even read Ezekiel!" Or "You know, that's all allegorical!"—but you have them watching this show right now—what would be your encouragement for my friend here watching?
Well, I'm telling you right now that you should be going to a Bible-teaching church. And you mentioned something that is actually the answer. There are churches and Christians who will say, "We just preached the gospel." And my response to that is you should repent if that's just all you do.
The gospel is, yes, Jesus died on the cross for our sins and rose again from the dead. You must repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. What you and I are concerned about is after you're saved, and you quoted it today; I'm not even sure if you realized it: "Then we are to go into all the world and evangelize!"
It doesn't say that; it says go into all the world and make disciples! That means leading people, mentoring people, teaching like Jesus taught, day by day. There's a reason why there's a Genesis all the way through to Revelation, chapter by chapter, verse by verse.
A lot of people don't realize that in the gospels, we have the wrap-up; we have the bow of what Jesus was teaching. When you hear a parable, good scholars—really good rabbis—will tell you, well, what this really means was that Jesus was teaching for—we don't know how long—but it's a Jewish way of teaching that when you wrap up the message that you've given, you make it colorful.
Technicolor, we would say in America, and you put the bow on it! And you did that with a parable! So Jesus could have taught verse by verse, for example, Isaiah, what we would say, Isaiah maybe 7 to n—we don't know, right?
But He would have taught that, and then He would have ended with the parable, right? He made it colorful to them; it's the application. So what's important today is that we must get back to the Bible and stop apologizing for it!
What's wrong with us? It's God's Word! It's holy! It's pure! Not one word will fail! So that's what I'm saying: Go to a Bible-teaching church that goes verse by verse, chapter by chapter, and then you will be galvanized against deception in this day and age. You'll be galvanized against falsehood; you'll be galvanized against a world narrative that will say something like the Jews shouldn't be there or we shouldn't vote or we shouldn't pray or we shouldn't help.
Excuse me! I have to do that because the Word of God says so! And when the Word of God says so, I don't have to worry about what people's opinions are. That's my bedrock.
Well, thank God you're here in Southern California! We need you!
All right, last question, and again, you’re just an absolute legend. Thank you so much for coming on! You've been a wealth of information. But let's wrap back up with the war of Gog and Magog, because that’s probably why my friend here clicked on this thing.
What should people be looking for to know that—because I feel like a lot of times, like, "Oh, the world is ending in 2012!" No, it's not! "Oh, the world's Y2K!" And so there's this like fatigue, where it's like, "Guys, just chillax on this thing, the war of Gog and Magog!"
Even in the Book of Revelation, people are like, "Oh, well, it doesn't say in the Book of Revelation that's going to happen a thousand years from now!" Just—guys—calm down! What would you say people should be looking for that lines up with scripture to know that maybe, guys, maybe now is the time? Maybe the time is short? And don't just think that you have all this time to just lollygag and eat, drink, and be merry.
What would be your advice in closing to my friend here who's watching who wants to know, "Is the time now, or is the time soon?"
We're going to end with where we began. You said Israel is God's timepiece—number one, that's a fact. Number two is this: What’s the one number one trending nation in the news today? It's Israel!
If I were to say to anybody, what you should be watching for is an increased global rejection of the nation of Israel. And God help America if this election goes against Israel. Because there's one party for Israel and there's one party against Israel. America's in the balance and how that election goes.
I'm not talking politics; I'm talking worldview here. And Israel is the key. If America goes against Israel, thank God the Christian has the Lord, and that's always the case, right? That's the bottom line!
But watch for a stirring of Russia to become more and more involved in the defense of nations like Iran, Turkey, and even the regions at the tip of North Africa. We know Ethiopia, somehow the areas of Cush and Put, or Sudan—you're going to see those types of things intensify. Right now, they're kind of wavering.
You're going to see a greater presence of Russia bringing aid. And then I'll end with this—it's interesting, Raj—that the Bible tells us that God will put a hook in the jaw of Gog and turn him around. By the way, I'm not joking; it mentions him in the male pronoun!
"I will turn around this president and general of a nation, and I will pull him down," which implies he's not willing to come; he has to come! I find it fantastic that today, as you and I sit here, Russia's got a mutual military agreement with the nation of Iran! Russia must defend Iran against Israel! Keep your eye on Russia right now like never before!
Wow! And look up!
Pastor Jack, thank you so much. It's great to be with you!