Transcription
Foreign okay uh okay yeah so yeah um good evening um oh whatever it is wherever you might be um yeah okay well what's being suggested here then um is totally energetic one could say.
So of course there is no message, um there is no theory, there is no teaching, um no path, no methods, none of these things. Um there is nothing that could be said, so to speak, and no one that could say it.
So yeah, what appears to be happening one could say is boundless energy. So in a sense, one could say the suggestion is that all there is is boundless energy. So, I mean really, as I say, there is nothing to say.
So these meetings, um this so-called message just seems to come as a response, one could say, um to this so-called separate experience, uh which seems to feel very real at the time, so to speak. It feels as if I am and I am a contracted energy. Really, this is how it seems, and so I am in the body.
I am the body, um I am sitting on this Zoom call listening to Izzy. This is me, and this would be, yeah, the dream, so to speak.
So yeah, as I say, all there is is boundless energy. So the suggestion, so to speak, is just that this so-called contraction just doesn't even happen. So of course it's not even that there is a contraction and that that then explodes into boundless energy.
No, the suggestion, so to speak, is that there already just is boundless energy. And actually, this so-called lived sense of me is just totally not happening. It's just not even a thing.
So in that sense, there's not even an actual illusion. There's not even an illusion of me that could then collapse with this so-called death, this so-called collapse.
Um it's just revealed, one could say, that actually there never was anyone, hmm, and that then just never has been this contraction, this me, this person.
So yeah, um anyone is welcome to, uh comment, um to say hello, or just ask a question. Um yeah, it's very relaxed. There's no right or wrong, of course. I should be able to be able to unmute yourselves, I think. Yep, if that's a problem, we'll change it.
Hi Izzy.
Hello.
Hi, um yeah, I'd like to ask a question if that's okay.
Yeah, of course.
Um foreign. Yeah, I just feel so much that yeah like it just feels like there is something like it feels like there is a contraction in the head, like that's what it feels like.
That's my experience in this moment, like there's been a lot of emotional stuff happening for me this week, and I noticed when that's happening I need to do the like hold myself in that instead of doing the inquiry.
That's what works for me, but when I remember how I felt a couple of weeks ago and I was really stable and um really in this, it still felt like in meditation.
I don't know, it feels like in my experience in meditation sometimes at the moment, even though I know you can't practice this, is that it's almost like there's this openness that comes, or um it's like I'm letting go, letting go of everything until it feels like a spaciousness is there.
But then it doesn't stay, like something will then—something will, like, you know what I mean? And then it feels like I am in this head again and that's where I'm perceiving things from here, like looking, experiencing thoughts.
And I just want to experience less of that. So how—what to do? [Laughter]
Well, I mean, yeah of course the suggestion is just that there is already no experience.
So however, of course, like you say, when there seems to be this lived sense that this is me, then this just feels totally real.
And really, what the person seems to always be doing is looking for the escape. So yeah, I mean meditation is a common one—trying to calm the thoughts or um become awareness, this become this spaciousness or abide as this spaciousness or whatever.
Um but yeah, I mean, like you say, that just can't be kept up. This is the constant effort of the person, would be, I don't know, it could be that or it could be to stay present or whatever.
Or to—I mean really, the person is just always trying to, um escape but also survive by doing this. So it's this funny loop, it seems, of uh desperately wanting to escape but also that seems to be what it most fears.
Yeah, so if I maybe—if I—I mean it's always looking for an approach. So what if I just watch the thoughts or what if I um become present with the emotions or whatever?
Um yes, it's just this constant game of trying to stay on top. Um and the suggestion, so to speak, is just that, I mean, there just is no one already.
So staying on top or not is just already impossible. Uh there just seems to be a body that has emotions apparently or thoughts or whatever seem to be what appear to be happening, but not to anyone.
Hey Izzy.
Hya.
Hey, if I might ask a question. Um you, you say that this contracted sense itself has never—it's never happened, and I guess if there isn't the person then how could it happen? Is that?
Yeah, okay, yeah exactly. Yeah, I mean this—I mean these, well one can't even say they're not two; they're the same thing because neither happen, but there isn't—so there doesn't seem to be this person and then this contraction.
This sense of being me seems to be this energetic contraction which, as you say, there are neither.
I mean yeah, or there isn't that, whatever that experience seems to be. I mean call it what you like: contraction, person, me, whatever.
But energetically it seems to be this "I am in the body, this is me," right?
Okay, I just—I wasn't there, but what kind of—I was—I love your math by the way.
Thank you.
Thank you, nice to meet you. Uh okay in the chat, um oh Karen and Jude at two different bodies? Or my mind is not working well? Uh I don't know what that means.
Hey Izzy, me again. Um I did listen to your chat with—actually earlier today I’d listened to it probably a number of months back, and it completely went over my head to the point, what are these two all about?
Oh um today and yeah, it was—it was nice to listen to.
Um but I just took out, um what the character said, that uh when you were—you there was a, you know, period, I don’t know whether it’s going from the awakening to the—I don’t know—luther, you know, there was a lot of pain, um it was you know, it wasn’t straightforward.
And then it was just this, yeah, it was assurance. Um I don’t know if that’s the word you used.
Well, it’s probably—I mean yeah, it’s just totally indescribable, but I quite like that one.
I was actually curious as to what—there’s stuff going on with this character, right? Or whatever, a short story.
But what the scariest part was—you probably get asked the silly question all the time—what was the wish? The wish moment?
Um well, yeah, I mean, yeah of course this is totally indescribable.
Um so there is no answer to that because it didn’t actually happen, and I mean, I mean sort of, I mean to the person this would probably be being said, so to speak, to come across.
Yeah, it’s because of course the person—the so-called person, um just lives in moments and happenings, so to speak.
Yeah, and so this so-called death just has to be another moment or a thing or a happening, um and that it actually isn’t, of course, is totally inconceivable, which it is totally inconceivable.
Um but actually, of course, there’s also no one who’s trying to conceive it.
This sense of what is he talking about? I must work that out—is this sense of being someone?
Um yeah, energetically one could, like you say, the whoosh one could—could I mean it's indescribable but to use words such as explosion or death or just collapse.
I mean don't even—I mean yeah, as I say, it can't be described.
Um yeah, something that was never there—that exactly, exactly.
It is no longer, exactly.
I mean seen from the person one could say the person would imagine this to be this contraction exploding into boundlessness.
But this apparent death is just that there were ideas boundlessness.
So yeah, like you say it just can't happen, yeah.
I mean the most underwhelming non-happening and that just can't even be conceived of, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh here's the thing that I'm kind of grappling with: How would—how would I—no one know that there were no ones?
Oh well exactly, no one does. [Laughter]
I mean this would be the next thing for the person would be, I mean for example, sort of after these so-called awakenings I would perhaps feel less like me and I would perhaps be questioning, oh am I no one now?
Does this mean there's no one or whatever?
Um but really this apparent death is the death of the questioner. So this just doesn't even come up, is there anyone, is there no one?
I mean it's just not even a thing.
Okay, all right, what's this film?
Um just last question, even when there’s apparent non-happening happens, whatever, was there still a draw to looking at characters’ YouTubes, or did that just go away or is that a gradual going away?
I mean I don't know how this whole interest in such things just totally collapsed.
Yeah interesting, okay.
They may occasionally be, um well I can't even say this to be honest.
I mean if for example I wanted to see how someone was, I’d just message them or something; there’s not this—I mean this obsession with the videos is just totally gone.
Yeah, I mean yeah just yeah, pretty boring.
I'd rather watch some drama on Netflix or something, Korean drama, yeah.
Oh, interesting, yeah.
Okay, all right, so that kind of pretty much got chopped.
Okay cool, thanks Izzy.
Thank you, yeah in the chat.
Is the person's love similar to the love of this boundless or one is conditioned and the other is free but empty?
Well, I mean what appears to be happening is unconditional love.
Um so one can't distinguish that of course or or separate it up. It's just boundlessly everything.
So one can't even say, oh no that so-called personal love is not this.
I mean there's nothing that's not this, so to speak. So what appears to be happening is everything.
So the so-called personal love between a relationship, um that is conditioned, let's say, is just what appears to be happening and that is boundless unconditional love.
I mean this would perhaps assume one could say that there is even a personal love in the first place and then another thing that is the boundless love or the ultimate love or whatever.
But no, this so-called love or relationship between two people or whatever is just what appears to be happening and that is boundless unconditional love.
In the same way as a body sitting, breathing, and listening to Izzy apparently is also boundless unconditional love.
So yeah, I mean the person would want love to be labeled, is this personal love or friendship love, do they love me back?
But yeah, I mean all there is is love one could say.
Gosh, I'm has been a very loving mood tonight. Usually, it's just energy but tonight is love, so you're lucky.
What about Helen, heaven, what the religions mean by that?
Well, of course nothing. There is no meaning, um behind that or anything of course.
Um yeah, I mean one could say as a story these things of hell and heaven just emerge out of whatever fantasies, of course, dreams, so to speak.
But there is somewhere else that is better.
I mean usually people fantasize over heaven, not hell. Usually, hell is feared, of course.
But this would at the same time just seem to represent the loop the person feels itself to be in, desperately longing for heaven and desperately avoiding hell.
But of course there are neither, there is nowhere waiting afterwards or whatever, whether it's heaven or hell or a second life or…
Hi Izzy.
Hi Jason.
Hey, so I'm here like I feel like I'm me whatever, I'm real. But then I don't know like what or who this I thing is or even what real is or really what anything is.
But there is some kind of sense of things happening to me or me deciding things, making things happen, right?
That kind of doership experiencer thing is going on, and it seems again, it seems—I don't know if it's real or not, but it seems it's definitely going on, right?
So, and I hear it, it never happens—it's like well, it does happen, it might stop happening, but it's definitely happening.
Uh I don't know one could say this is this, this is the surprise in many ways, so to speak, or the funny thing it seems with this so-called death.
Um it's just surprising, yeah, one could say that actually what once felt so real, like you say, just never actually happened.
And it's just, yeah, the surprise I want to say.
I mean like you, yeah just—I mean I expected this too, there would be an end, so to speak.
And then okay, that seemed real and um, and then it stopped and then there was whatever.
Um but yeah, this was the surprise one can't even look back and draw the line, so to speak—this is not even a real stopping.
Oh totally not.
I mean there is no stopping.
No?
Oh okay, thank you.
Um okay in the chat, um silence is also nothing appearing as that, or talking has some kind of energy that silence doesn't have?
Uh, well yeah, of course in, yeah, the first one so-called silence is also just what appears to be happening.
I mean as a turn of phrase, one could say talking or different people or talking or different atmospheres have different energies or whatever, but no, it doesn't—there's no depth to that of course.
So I think I said in the last meeting this sort of holy silence laughs.
I mean the person would probably prefer silence over talking, so to speak—it perhaps in terms of this message being able to inquire to figure out that there is no one or whatever.
But no, I mean silence is what appears to be happening; talking is what appears to be happening.
There's no hierarchy to either.
Just on that point, uh thoughts that just pop into the mind um just appeared—just appeared to be happening; they're nothing. They're just—just appear to be happening.
Yeah totally, yeah, I mean yeah, so cool.
Thinking just seems to be a—an apparent function of the body one could say: thinking, feeling, watching, listening, whatever.
Yeah, there’s already no one doing that, and say dismissing—a thought comes in, it gets dismissed.
Whether that's after a slight recognition of the thought or whatever, it's all in the same category—they're nothing, so to speak.
Um I mean this would be the dream, so to speak.
The so-called dream would be that I could even acknowledge a certain thought and dismiss another thought as if I am listening or aware or somehow behind the thoughts or that the thoughts are happening too.
But there's just no one there; there is no one.
So thoughts just appear to be happening and that I will dismiss that, it just appears to be another thought.
There is no one behind that.
And I think when there is the shall we say quote unquote falling away, those thoughts don't happen or do happen.
How does that work?
Well, I mean neither in this sense of energetically, there is just no longer this sense of any of the thoughts happening to anyone or even happening at all.
There just is no experience.
Um so thoughts are just what appears to be happening, but it just—there's no one that could describe that.
I mean one can't sit here and say, oh it's like this, it's like that because there's just, there's just what appears to be happening.
So, um a thought of I wish I didn't have that thought, I mean they're just—just this chatter.
There's just no one that's controlling that or that they're—not that they're listening, so to speak.
So the talk may still pop, but it's not being listened to?
Well, I mean with this so-called death, all of these sort of neurotic types of thoughts just seem to just die or just, okay, or just relax.
I mean as a habit, if someone was constantly practicing inquiry, so to speak, these sorts of thought mechanisms just seem to just run on themselves.
But with this so-called death, I mean that whole game just collapses, so the sort of the thoughts just seem to just perhaps keep running and just fall away.
I mean whatever—the person is almost this sense that the thoughts are constantly being reinforced, constantly staying on top of them, constantly thinking, I'm thinking—no, there's just thinking.
Okay, thank you, thanks.
Yeah, in the chat, um it's like we've been talked into believing we are living stories with beginnings, middles, and ends.
But when did the person begin?
Oh, one could say so in this sense, yeah, but of course, I mean yeah, exactly.
This is the so-called apparent illusion that there even could be a beginning, middle, and end.
And yeah, but yeah like you say, when did the person begin?
Well it didn't, and there just is no one.
So no one ever started and so of course no one can ever end.
And yeah, I remember when this was being starting to be heard more, one could say that it did feel a little like—I mean this is when I was still alive, so to speak, but it still felt like, yeah, I mean like like, well to the person, it felt as if I’d been sold a lie.
What do you mean I’m not me?
But of course then the person would then create a whole story around this—why does this lie come up?
Why, you know, who created this illusion?
But of course with this so-called death, then this whole game collapses; there isn’t even an illusion.
There's no one to complain about it.
It sounds like you're saying what's happening isn't happening.
Like something—how could something end? Something can't—how could something end if it never started?
Yeah, totally, exactly.
But then it's happening but it's not happening?
Um well, I mean as in what appears to be happening, this apparent Zoom meeting is neither happening for sure nor is it not happening for sure.
So hence it's just what appears to be happening; it's just what seems to be happening.
Um but this sense to be me, it just never happens.
I mean it's happening, I mean if there seems to be a body that that claims this is happening, and that's just what appears to be happening.
Um there is no actual contraction, of course.
No, I just don't know about this whole contraction thing because there's like energetic stuff that happens like even this laughing that happens.
I feel like it's just like some energetic expression or whatever and there's like kundalini energy stuff in the body, moves around, you know, does all his stuff, whatever.
And there was one time I was doing a Zoom with Andreas and this, the contraction, whatever, like drained out like the sense of tension—not even the muscular tension—like deeper than muscular tension, just like drained out.
Zoom, right, emptiness, blah blah blah for, you know, however long five minutes or something and then all this like, you came right back in again.
Yes, like oh my God!
I'm wondering—it's like yeah, I understand everything you're saying, but on the other hand, it's like this doesn't make any sense at all.
Yeah, yeah, and yeah exactly.
I mean what's being suggested is totally energetic so to speak—or what appears to be happening is totally energetic.
So well this has nothing to do with anything, but there's of course—there's nothing to do with, oh if I get this or understand the words or whatever.
I mean no, this—this apparently contracted sense can just, yeah, like you say, just seem to just totally die.
But then of course with these so-called glimpses, someone seems to survive that and come back.
Yeah, it's like dying and being resurrected or something?
Yeah, yeah, one can say so, yeah.
Well, yeah, I don't know.
Okay, well I like talking to you. Thanks Adam.
What else is there right now?
But thanks, thank you.
Okay, um hi, I see it's weird that the simple fact of having the feeling of being a person can seem so real and that in this position there seems to be all the possibility, possible jewels imaginable?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah totally, yeah.
So this sense to be someone is this apparent dualistic sense so to speak that there is me and there is this Zoom call.
So yeah, of course there is neither, but me will project itself onto, well, everything so to speak.
So yeah, just the sense of me is the sense of duality.
There's me and the thoughts, me and the feelings, me and the universe, me and the unconditional love.
Yeah, of course this is the dream, there is no me.
But yeah, this is the funny thing in many ways, this so-called collapse just of course all these things then collapse because of course there was never an actual Zoom meeting.
It was just this so-called sense to be me that seemed to be creating all this stuff, so to speak.
One could say—I mean this is, yeah, this just never happens.
So we're going off on a bit of a story there—it's too much for the me.
Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah.
I'm not quite sure what you're referring to, but um everything so to speak is too much for me. Um me, this so-called me is the sense that things are too much, life is tough so to speak, life is difficult or whatever.
And on, and then this so-called loop dancing, this seems to be this loop of on the one hand, I desperately long to be free of that, to have gotten to get rid of that, to be free.
But on the other hand, that is what I deeply fear.
I want to be free but not too free; I want to survive in the freedom.
I mean, and yeah, energetically of course, me fears this totally, so to speak.
I mean it longs for it but it fears it.
And really, energetically, with this so-called death and so-called glimpses, so to speak, this can be very confronting, and the person can suddenly realize, so to speak, actually it probably doesn't want this but it still does.
So this loop just, yeah, apparently!
Um so the fall will never happen to anybody whether you come across this message or not?
Yeah, totally, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no fall ever happens, so it has nothing to do with what—anything—there just is no collapse.
I mean the person would probably think if I listen to this message, my chances of dying or collapsing are higher.
Foreign, yeah.
I mean I can't even say that there is more chance, so to speak, on this call versus the everyday Joe that’s never heard of this message.
I mean neither is more or less likely because there just is nothing to happen.
It's just that coming to these meetings might stop happening and may just be, as I said earlier, just the everyday Joe or whatever.
This is so hopeless, totally, yeah, totally, yeah.
I mean yeah, it's not, it's not claiming to be otherwise; nothing will happen.
Are you for real?
Foreign, nothing will happen.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean if this is hard, so to speak again this can be, um well yeah, crying face, yeah.
This can be, well on the one hand, again, on the one hand this can be um great, so to speak, but on the other hand this can be the deepest fear, let's say, that actually nothing has to happen or could happen because the person will always be this sense of next and is always hoping in the future that something will happen.
And really that seems to be keeping the person safe, but it's not this.
Okay, um you just killed my personal hope that things will be good at both levels, spiritual and material.
Wow, I can apologize!
I mean yeah, this is the hope of the person, so to speak, that one day things will be good, and of course the biggest hope is that I will be there when they are.
Uh but of course one—I mean this is a total lose-lose for the person.
So the person hopes one day things will be good and I will be there when they are, but of course the suggestion is that things are already good.
But of course a good in this sense that things are naturally okay, but of course there is no one who will ever know or experience that.
[Music]
Yeah, total loses!
So Izzy, um so feelings obviously fall into the same category because no one experiences feelings.
Like I said, it's just a body?
Yeah, yeah, right.
Sorry, I was at Tony at the weekend. It was the first time I’ve been to one of his meetings, but a girl got up and asked a question.
She goes, "Tony I don't mean to be um, I'm not being smart, but I ask you this question: could you not say that it's energy?"
She asked the question but where do feelings come from?
What are feelings?
I told him, he goes blah blah blah blah—and it's energy.
Yeah, yeah, well she didn't get what she was looking for.
Oh yeah, well of course, yeah, I mean no so-called goes to meet ever get what it's looking for.
I don't know what she was like, but she wasn't looking for the answer to include it. [Laughter]
That was funny, okay.
Um do you find life funny?
If not, how do you receive this happenings?
Um well no, there is no one and there is no life.
I mean this is—this would be the total duality that there could even be someone that could find life anything painful, funny, joyous, whatever no.
So and yeah, no one receives what appears to be happening.
There is no other end, so to speak.
Or there is not even one, yeah that's just what appears to be happening with no receipt of that, no reaction, no experience, no awareness.
I mean the list could go on; there just is no one already, so to speak.
So yeah, I think that's probably quite a good place to leave it this evening.
Um so yeah, I mean this is wholeness, of course.
I'm sitting for an hour or so, an apparent body sitting for an hour with Izzy, listening, speaking, whatever is just naturally whole and complete already, so to speak.
Okay, uh yes, the next meeting is this Saturday at 11 A.M. British Summer Time, uh, and then next weeks will be posted on Facebook or the website or whatever.
Um I'm still taking places for Brighton in July at the end of July, uh Brighton in the UK.
So it's the last weekend of July, yeah, if you'd like to come, well there's still spaces so you can just email me.
Everyone's welcome, of course!
And then uh in August I'm doing another Zoom intensive, um and all the details are online but that'll be two days of Zoom, basically a bit longer, so four hours a day—the real deep dive.
Yeah, again, if you'd like to come to that just send me an email. Everyone is welcome.
Okay, but apart from that uh take care, enjoy the rest of your day, and see you soon.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
[Music]