Military Psyops Operative: Inside the Mind of a Master Manipulator | Chase Hughes

[Music]

So why don't you just give yourself a brief introduction to your background so people know who you are if they don't already?

Yeah, I'm uh, my name is Chase Huse. I did 20 years in the US military and retired in 2019. Then, I did some behavioral stuff, wrote a few books that became best sellers, and I have a YouTube channel where we break down people's behaviors and stuff.

But most of my life, I've been obsessed with how people are made to do things that are not in their best interest. Whether that is confessing to a crime in interrogation, providing some kind of intelligence, or maybe getting talked into a cult or something like that.

So that's always fascinated me from the standpoint of interrogations: what can a person be made to do, and how long does it take to get to the desired result?

And you are an expert in psychological warfare and psychological operations.

Yeah, and in what capacity have you worked for the government in this kind of realm?

So the first job that I ever had was literally just scraping rust off of a ship. So if anybody's out there right now and you're thinking about joining the Navy, don't let your recruiter tell you to go undesignated because it sounds good. They're like, "Oh, you can go in there and then you can pick whatever job you want; you're not designated."

So I did that for like two and a half years. Then, in 2001, a friend of mine got killed on the USS Cole. This was the bombing that took place in the Gulf of Yemen in September 11th. His name is Craig Weberly, and I read all these intelligence reports that said the agents didn't develop contacts well enough. We had all these failures that took place on the ground.

I had already been studying body language, and I just got into body language because I was rejected by a girl when I was like 19 and I was stationed in Pearl Harbor. So we were down in W, and basically, she just says, "No, thank you," like really mean, right to my face.

And it hurt; it was like a heart impact to me. I went home that night and typed into Google, "How to tell when girls like you," and I printed out this big stack of paper. The more I learned about reading human behavior, the more I could see that everybody is suffering. Everybody that you meet is insecure, and you start being able to see all these hidden insecurities.

Just coming to that realization that everybody that you meet is hiding some kind of insecurity in some way didn't make me feel better than anybody else; it just made me feel like, "Oh, they're screwed up like I am."

So at that point, you decided to get into actually studying neuroscience, and I think you did some sort of classes at Harvard and Duke, right?

I did a bunch of psychology classes when I was in the military and went to a university that was kind of like, "If you pay your military money, they pass you," kind of a thing. But after I retired from the military, that's when I started. The education was free, essentially.

So I did a postgraduate program for neuroscience at Harvard, and then I did the standard neuroscience and medical neuroscience program at Duke University.

Oh wow! And at what point did you start to get these jobs working with the military intelligence agencies and stuff like this? Is there like an official organization or a compartmented area of the government that only does psychological operations?

There are. That's the US Army. The US Army is kind of subdivided. You have the Special Operations Command, and then you have a bunch of stuff under there, and SCOPS falls under the Special Operations Command. So it's mostly Army. When you think about any SCOPS, you're going to think Army. That's when the Army is involved 100%.

So that branch I didn't start until I was a civilian. I got out, and I've been developing all these programs my whole life to try to improve all of our intelligence training. I realized maybe halfway through my career, and you can imagine when somebody says, "Oh, this is military grade," if you talk to somebody in the military, that's the opposite. We're thinking, "Oh, that thing is a piece of [ __ ]!"

But because I thought all of this intelligence training had to be cool, it's got to be like Jason Bourne level persuasion and influence training and stuff. Come to find out, taking the class, even going to like recruiting school to recruit people, the training was like, "Give people a firm handshake, look them in the eye, use their name when you're talking to them, maybe touch them on the shoulder every once in a while."

It was like Dale Carnegie, right? That's all it was!

And I was stunned, stunned that that was the best we had to offer. That was the best that we could give an intelligence operative, and that was the reason that we had some of those terror attacks.

So I started training SCOPS in 2019; that was the first time. And just training SCOPS, they soaked it up so much because they were starving for some kind of training like that for so long. They'd been going off of these PowerPoints that say, "Get to know the person you're talking to," and that's it. It doesn't say how. How do you do that? How do you get them to connect to you?

It just says, "Well, get to know them, ask open-ended questions," like the most basic stuff. It was like all their training would be something ChatGPT would just spit out if you say, "Give me training on how to connect to somebody." It would just be the most generic thing you could imagine.

Yeah, so I wanted to make that better. And there's so much out there.

And I just looked at—if I could go on a tangent here for a second—MH, so you've heard of the Milgram experiment?

No.

Let me walk you through it.

Okay, this is 1962 at Yale University, and they do a study. They put an ad in the paper and they say, "We're doing a study on learning and psychology, and if you come in and volunteer for the study, we're going to give you like a lunch voucher or something like that."

So all these people volunteered. So let's say you're doing the study, and you take it, and you go up in this hallway, you meet this guy in the lab coat, and there's another volunteer there. You draw straws; the other guy draws the learner straw, and you draw a straw that says teacher on it.

They say, "All right, you're going to sit down here." And I'll summarize it, but the guy's in the room next to you with the door shut, and you're going to sit down at this machine, and you're going to read this quiz. For every question he gets wrong, you're going to shock his ass. You're going to deliver an electric shock.

So you walk in there with him to begin the experiment. You watch him getting strapped down into this machine, and they even let you test the shock around yourself.

I have heard of this; I read about this somewhere.

So you're—and every time they get a question wrong, you shock them. But not only that, you're going to grab that little knob and move the voltage up. So if you move the knob all the way to the far right, it says, "XXX danger severe shock."

So you start the experiment; the guy says he's got a heart condition, and you can hear him screaming when you hit this little shock button through the wall. You can hear him go, "Ah, ah!" You can hear these little screams, and every time you're moving it up.

Sooner or later, he says, "I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to continue. I'm out of here. I have a heart condition. I told you I had a heart condition. I want to leave. I want to stop right now."

And all these people would kind of like turn back to the guy in the lab coat like, "You know, what do I do?" And the guy in the lab coat is almost every time would say something as simple as, "It's important that you continue," or "The experiment requires that you continue."

So they keep going and keep going and keep going. They're up to like 300 volts now, and at around 350 volts, every sound in the room across the wall stops. No more sound, and they shock, and then he stops answering questions altogether.

There's no response to these questions because he's pushing this little button that indicates like A, B, C, D, and you turn around to the guy in the lab coat again. The guy in the lab coat says, "Any non-answer must be treated as an incorrect answer. Please continue."

And they kept going, and they kept going, shocking what they assumed, which was an actor. The guy in the other room is an actor, but they assume that this is a real person. They're suffering and maybe unconscious at this point. They wanted to stop; they asked to stop.

So before this experiment started, all these psychologists got together and they said, "You know what? How many people are going to go through with this?" And they said 0.07% I think was the answer. They said, "Anybody that would go through with this is a psychopath and wants to hurt other human beings."

So the experiment concluded 67% of people went all the way, all the way. And 250 volts is enough to kill you based on amps, but 100% of people went up to 250 volts.

Wow!

And it's been replicated so many times. It's been over and over. People have replicated it in different environments and different changes. Some of the experiments, they physically made the participant hold the person's hand down on a metal plate that was shocking them.

And they went back and they said, "This is a study of obedience to authority," because this was during the Nuremberg trials going on with all of the former Nazis saying, "I was just following orders. I was just doing what I was told to do."

Right?

So Dr. Milgram, his parents were Jewish. He does this experiment: will people just do what they're told to do? And they thought that this was all about authority.

So people are struggling right now. All over the Internet, you can see stuff like sales training, like sales training mastery. Here's the influence mastery. If I can, in 40 minutes, I can talk a total stranger into committing murder, wouldn't you think that that's harder than selling him a car?

And those people in the Milgram experiment, there was no secret hypnotic technique. They didn't inject them with some LSD or something before the thing happened. They didn't have some secret handshake or they touch them a certain way or hypnotize them. No techniques, no methods.

It was just how responsive our mammalian part of our brain is to authority. But they missed one element of that, which we can talk about later. But that's how incredible authority really is when it comes to influence and persuasion in human behavior.

It's everything.

That leads me to a little bit of what we were talking about before we started recording this podcast, talking about certain folks that see things going on in the world and automatically assume that this thing is some sort of SCOP, right? Or some sort of psychological—like, for example, the guy Crooks, I think his name was, that tried to shoot Trump and got killed immediately afterward and then gets his identity scrubbed from the internet.

Like, and you even have the guy who just murdered the healthcare CEO two weeks ago or a week ago, whatever it was. So many people love to jump online to immediately like, "This guy was a Manchurian candidate," or "This guy was somehow co-opted by somebody in intelligence or the FBI or whatever and manipulated to do this."

And it makes a lot of sense, and it's easy to draw connections to that kind of thing. But how much of that do you think is real that goes on today in this day and age?

I think it probably still goes on, but I want you—here's what a lot of the mistake a lot of those people will make, and I hope I don't piss them off by saying this—but it's not about the technique. A lot of people think, "Oh, you need all this training. I'm going to inject this person. I'm going to do secret messages into their brain using some machine or something like that."

If I'm an authority in a person's life and I say, "Hey man, you know what you need to do? You need to go do that thing to that person," that's all it takes. Because it's not about the right skills; it's about the ability to select the right target or to select the right candidate to perform the action.

This goes all the way back to Bobby Kennedy, RFK's dad, who was killed by a guy named Sirhan Sirhan in San Francisco. And I believe that that was on purpose, and I think that that was very heavily influenced. I think he was influenced; he has no memory of the entire event.

I went to the prison to sit down with Sirhan a few years ago.

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Now, back to the show.

I booked a flight, got a hotel, had all these forms filled out, walked in the front door, handed over my driver's license to sign in and all that stuff, and they said, "He's sick. He's not feeling well. He's sick."

So I never got a chance to talk to him. But if you just look at it in terms of, "Am I selecting the right person to do this?" it's a thousand times easier. And you don't need some giant agency who's doing this.

It's often not some agency; it's usually a group of people with a special interest.

Interesting.

So you don't need 50 years of hypnosis experience, even though there was most likely a hypnotist involved with Sirhan Sirhan. His name was Dr. Jolly West.

Oh yeah, I'm familiar with him.

I don't know if you're familiar with Tom O'Neil's book "Chaos." Riveting! He dives through all the background of the Manson murders and he even interviews his probation officer and learns all about how Jolly West was tied to that free clinic in San Francisco.

And there was this free clinic in—was called the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic in San Francisco that he did his research on. It was fully funded by the CIA, and they were doing experiments with people with LSD and amphetamines to see how that would affect people's brains and how you could control them.

And you know, that's interesting too. This ties right into Charles Manson because of "Midnight Climax."

Yes, yeah, that's right!

There was Operation Chaos and Midnight Climax that was going on at the same exact time, and that was all under Sidney Gottlieb, who was the OSS director, I think, at that time.

Is that was that his position?

I think he was the head of MK Ultra. I know that.

Yeah, but I think he ran that with Hoover, who was kind of sideways involved in that. And I have the only existing—well, I have the digital copies of all those letters between him and this guy named Dr. George Eser Brooks at Colgate University, who were involved and had developed a plan, which I don't think has ever been released by the government, but I found it in Dr. Eserbrook's personal effects and his files.

And I'll send you a copy; you can like put it in the show notes if you want to. But they had a plan to hypnotize—and Dr. Eserbrook was a classic hypnotist—but he says, "I could split someone's personality in such and such amount of time and make them do anything. I could make them forget who they know."

And he says, "I can do it to an army officer. Here's the step-by-step guide."

I'll send you all of this.

I'll even send you the step-by-step guide that he—what was—do you remember any of it, the steps?

Yeah, oh easy!

What was it?

Wait, let me finish this quick.

So the guy has this plan sent off to J. Edgar Hoover involving this other guy named Dr. Milton Erickson, who's like the grandfather of hypnotherapy. He's the guy—he's the reason that hypnotherapy is accepted by the American Medical Association.

So, and this other person, Margaret Meade, who is involved right now, and they have a plan to capture and hypnotize a German submarine captain, give him a split personality, send him back into his own harbor where he'll torpedo all of their own ships.

And this was a legit plan that they were working on. They had all these steps laid out. So they've been doing this for a long time—a very long time.

Wow!

So what you are—the steps of splitting somebody's personality?

The steps are easy. So I'll give you the more advanced version because that was kind of rudimentary what they had back then. But I'll put the—I'll give you the documents to put in the PDF or whatever in the link down below.

So if our personalities are very fragile, and most people don't realize it, and if you have an authority figure, you can split a personality.

So let's imagine that I'm a psychiatrist or psychologist, and you come to me and you say, "Hey, I've been having this anxiety," or "I've been having a little feeling of depression or loneliness or something."

I say, "Well, is there—have you ever had an instance where one part of you wants to do one thing, the other part doesn't really do that?"

And 100% of people are going to say yes to that.

100%.

But you'll say, "Yeah, actually, yeah, when it comes to like cheesecake or something, I don't want to eat the cheesecake because I know it's going to make me fat, but I'll go eat the cheesecake."

We'll take it as a simple thing, and I'll say, "All right, so what if that part of you had a name? What would the name of that part be?"

And you're like, "Oh, I don't know, uh, Michael." You made up a name.

I like, "All right, so what—let's say—let's go back and forth. What does Michael want?"

"Okay, Michael wants this."

"But what does Danny want?"

And then so I get you to have this dialogue about yourself in the third person, but you're not sure what camera angle you're looking at yourself from, right?

And if I ask you just a simple question like, "Let me just ask you, and answer this honestly: did you shower this morning or last night?"

"Last night."

So you just look up and to your left. So you picture yourself in the third person.

Yeah.

Why did you picture yourself in the third person? Who was observing you? Do you think that was Michael?

So I start going down this path of doing this, and then I say, "You know what? I think the best way to clear this up is to give you the standard exam."

This is the standard psychological exam for multiple personality disorder.

And hold on, whoa!

So the exam I give you, you might think I'm lying to you because my hair's wet, but I jumped in the pool before I came here, so that's why my hair looks wet. I'm not lying; I don't care. I'm sure you can tell if I'm lying.

So I give you this example, and it's totally made up. It doesn't even have to be an official document. And let's say it's got 10 or 12 questions on there: "Do you feel like this sometimes? Do you feel like that sometimes? Do you feel like that sometimes?"

No matter what you score, I say, "Wow, you're in the 99th percentile for having a multiple personality disorder, and the best way that we can deal with this is to allow those parts of yourself to have a conversation with each other."

So just a doctor misdiagnosing you creates a split.

Wow!

That's just 30 minutes; that's not even the hypnosis yet.

And then we get into hypnosis, and hypnosis is proven to work. Dr. David Spiegel at Stanford University is probably the premier researcher for hypnosis.

And if I just get into the hypnosis part, I'm going to essentially—like I'm hammering a wedge down into a log to split that log apart. That hypnosis is just going to go in there and kind of push this wedge and allow those two beings to get further and further and further apart.

Let's identify this person's personalities, their traits, and their desires in life and what they want. Let's go to this one; let's see what Danny wants.

So why don't we have Danny and Michael have a conversation really quick, or would you like them not to talk to each other?

So we just start getting—the moment you step down this road, you're creating that part.

Wow!

So they actually use this for therapy, and a friend of mine, Dr. Richard Nongard, wrote a book. I think I wrote the foreword to that book maybe, but it's called "Excellence in Parts Work" and parts therapy.

And Dr. Fritz Perls did this; Virginia Satir did a lot of this stuff with Gestalt therapy. But it's just identifying these parts of yourself and getting familiar with what they want and what each is, which is good.

But the moment you start getting into it—and when I tell you it's pathological, or when I tell you I'm going to—let's say if I was a hypnotist and I didn't have the psychiatric authority and stuff, I could say, "You know what? What if you had a helper in your life who could do things for you?"

And I could install a helper inside your brain that I could do a very good thing for you, or I could make that helper do really bad stuff.

So once we're designing that helper, we decide the morals and ethics and what that helper is willing to do under hypnosis. And this has been proven since the '40s and '50s.

Oh wow!

It's pretty cool. It seems a lot easier than giving people drugs.

It is!

It is! But again, you either have to have—you have to have the right person, though. It's either a shitload of skill and authority or a lot of skill in finding the right person.

Yeah, so finding suggestible people is number one. And I wrote about this in a fiction book I wrote called "Phase Seven," which is going to be a TV show pretty soon.

And in this book, I use something that's actually real. If you look at somebody who's been happy their whole life, you know, you can start seeing these little crow's feet because they smile a lot.

You look at somebody who's socially driven, they raise their eyebrows a lot during conversations; you can see these little lines right here.

I always avoid those people!

Yeah! And like somebody who's angry or mad, you know, you'll have these two little lines that start to—and this is in the teenage years; you'll start seeing this.

And we call it expression etching because it etches onto the face after a pattern of behavior. But what would you do if I told you to make a skeptical facial expression?

There it is!

So the lower eyelid tightens up right here. Do it one more time so you can get a good zoom in.

There we go!

So all these wrinkles form down right here.

MH, so if you see somebody with a wrinkled lower eyelid—and this is my opinion; I've not tested this scientifically at all—but I have confirmed with like five hypnotists who have confirmed it with thousands and thousands of subjects, and these are sounds scientific enough to me.

I like it!

And if you look at—it's even in this book; there's photos of it. And if you look at a person's face and they have super smooth lower eyelids down here, they're, in my mind, exponentially more likely to be a suggestible candidate for that thing.

And so the bad guy in this fictional book goes to these comedy hypnosis shows where people get called up on stage, and it's like, "Oh, the person next to you farted, and it smells really bad," that kind of thing.

But he will take the number one subject from the hypnosis show, and then he doesn't know how to select the right person, so he just goes to the hypnosis show and he picks the most suggestible person and then just follows him out to the parking lot.

So I'm sure you can figure out a bunch of other characteristics or personality traits from somebody based on like different wrinkles that are to their face too, right?

Like people that are always stressed or depressed have different—

Yeah, and I wouldn't say it's a hard science. I wouldn't say most things dealing with behavior and psychology are not a hard science, no matter how much people want it to be.

It's just—it's like asking Roger Federer where he went to college for tennis, and like, "Well, where are your credentials? Where are the studies that you did to win all the tournaments?"

Yeah!

When you see people in the news, like this guy who just whacked that CEO, do you do deep dives on them and like their back, try to figure out what their motivations were and try to do like a psychoanalysis of them?

I want to, and I have to stop myself from doing it because I'll go hard.

Yeah!

And I'm a very suggestible person, and I will go hard into that, and then I'll get into like the Twitter confirmation bias rabbit hole, which I'm sure you've fallen into many times.

And it's hard to escape!

It is so hard! And I mean, not just exiting the app, but like the modifications I'm making to the way that I see the world.

That's great that you notice it!

Well, just like I'll be in my office; I wake up at like 4:30 in the morning, so it'll be like before sunrise, and I'm like hunched over my desk, like just doing this.

And I can feel like, "Oh my God, my brain's changing!"

Like something—and I just get out! So I have like app timers on all those things now.

Yeah!

There's like threads on Twitter and comments on YouTube of people that believe that I'm a CIA-funded plant, right, that runs a podcast to run CIA propaganda.

Yeah!

But at the same time, I believe [ __ ] like that about other things in the world, so that gives me a unique perspective on like I'm like on both sides of the mirror.

Yeah!

And I just published a video the day before yesterday on these drones that are happening right now.

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Now, back to the show.

The way you laid it out—and I think the consensus is online now. I sent you that video that was from Twitter where the guy was from a private aerospace company saying that these are like—he said that they were aerospace contractor drones that were searching for a rogue nuke, I think he said, that went missing in Ukraine or something and somehow made its way, got smuggled into the US.

So there's like a warhead somewhere they think in New Jersey, and they have these drones that—the reason they're flying at night is because they can detect this nuclear energy or gas or something that would be coming from this material.

Oh, because there's not a lot of gamma out in the air, I guess?

Right, right, right!

Yeah, anybody at home right now, we are two idiots talking about—

Of course!

Well, it does make sense that nobody would know about it, right? Like if you really think about it, like there's—I'm sure there's a lot of senators and congressmen and, you know, off-the-cuff FBI agents who won't know what this is because I'm sure if this is something serious, it's got to be super compartmented.

And if it is something like that, that they're looking for some sort of weapon that got on the loose that's in, you know, New Jersey, and they're trying to find out what the hell it is, and it's private aerospace that's figuring it out, there's going to be tons of people that are in the government that have no [ __ ] clue what it is.

So—and I think there's an element of SCOP to a lot of stuff that's going on. If you look, I mean, it depends on how you define SCOP. Like is it a government-funded thing? Because every commercial, if you watch an infomercial, that's a SCOP. They're all just—

Yeah!

Let me find the target; let me get them to do what I want them to do.

But I think you had a guy on here—I can't remember his name—super smart guy talking about Havana syndrome.

Yeah, everybody loves that podcast!

Yeah, is H—there were two guys, right? It was Robert Duncan and then the Russian guy, Len Bear?

Yeah, and Len was a victim of some of this stuff, and I published a paper from a SCOP perspective a year or two ago on Havana syndrome, and I'll give you the PDF to throw in the show notes.

M, what I suggested in that paper was if I wanted to affect mass control, I only need to use a real weapon on 10 to 55, maybe 100 people.

And then the sound of that weapon gets replayed on the news, the cricket sound over and over and over. Then it's so scary to a population, and everyone's so familiar with the sound that I no longer need the weapon; I just need a speaker.

Huh!

So I can create what's called a psychogenic illness, and this is very common. So you can create—if you've been trained for months and months and months, you've been seeing all these people get injured by these weapons with brain damage and confusion, migraine headaches, you're trained to associate that sound with all those symptoms because it's so much in the news cycle.

So then at the final stage, you don't need the weapon anymore; you don't need to smuggle in some crazy weapon. You just need—you can play the sound and get the symptoms, get the effects by just—

Wow!

Yeah, and you make it dissociating enough, like where the sound's pretty loud. You can use a device like an LRAD, which you can buy—a civilian can buy an LRAD, a long-range acoustic device. You can buy it online for like $3,500.

Yeah, I heard—I read that they used to test these weapons on sailors, on Navy sailors that were based in Maryland, I think it was, when they were first developing these targeted weapons.

I've used LRAD many times—not for any weird SCOPs, but we have them on the bridge.

Wait, so that top left photo right there, MH, that is called the bridge.

Yeah, so that's on the—like where you control a ship. So you have like the bridge, or the pilot house, where the wheel is, and it's got little two little outdoor sections right there.

So on Navy ships, those will be on the bridge wing, and that's kind of a—we don't want to shoot somebody warning system, right?

So you—and it's got a little aiming, like a little red dot sight, and you rotate that thing down. You can use it as kind of an early warning system to tell a boat that they need to turn around.

Oh wow!

There's one being used by the Navy right there.

Holy [ __ ]!

But it is a long-range weapon, and you can almost not even hear it from behind it. It's so quiet, and the cone is so small.

And this is probably 20—this photo is probably from 20, maybe 15 years ago. I can tell just by looking at the system and that he's wearing a flak jacket instead of steel plates.

Yeah!

Yeah, they use it for crowd control too, I'm sure.

Yeah, but that's an older system.

Yeah!

Now they have something called a sound laser that they use for the exact same thing.

But this is—I mean, it's not some crazy technology; it's just I'm sending sound through a little laser aperture and down.

Is that what that is right there?

New laser at McNary Dam is the latest technology for deterring—what?

Click on it—for deterring birds?

No, we did have laser guns that looked like an M4 that had a giant battery pack on them, and they were just kind of blinding lasers.

Show it!

It would shoot out a bazillion little lights. I don't know how they work.

Huh!

I know how to use it, right?

But they called it a dazzler, but it wasn't very dazzling.

I'm sure it did some permanent damage to people.

Yeah!

Len, the guy was in here, he was very, very upset. I mean, he was not in a good place when I met him, and we had dinner and stuff like that. He was going through this stuff constantly all day long with these migraines, and he had one like right before we started the show.

And he also said that when he went to that observatory— I think it's an observatory—there's a satellite or there—no, there's some sort of thing in West Virginia. Are you familiar with what I'm talking about?

It's a West Virginia radio—it's a dead zone; it's a quiet zone, right?

Where there's zero frequencies, zero EMFs, zero radio frequencies or anything like that because of the—

Is it—what is it? Is it some sort of like a telescope that's there?

Radio telescopes?

Yeah!

Can you find out what that thing is?

The Quiet Zone.

The Quiet Zone?

Yeah!

So I'm—it's only a couple hours from my house.

Oh really?

Yeah!

So allegedly, he said he can go there and all of his symptoms disappear.

Wow!

I'd be curious—and Len, if you're watching this, I mean no offense at all, but I'd be curious to have somebody who's suffering those attacks if we took them to a place that they 100% believed was a quiet zone if the attacks would stop.

If any element of that is somehow psychogenic, which doesn't discredit them at all; they're still experiencing the symptoms, right?

But is it—did it start with a weapon, and is it continuing because of a psychogenic or some kind of issue like that?

But I'd be curious to know.

But that's another thing about him too, which I think lends a lot of credibility, is he didn't have some sort of military background or like he didn't work on—he didn't have like an excuse of why he would have been targeted.

He's like, "I don't know; I'm just a freaking civilian. I'm a—he was an endocrinologist in the USSR. He came here and all of a sudden started experiencing these symptoms."

You know what I mean? Like there's no—he's not trying—he wasn't trying to build some sort of credible backstory.

I have no explanation for any of that stuff.

I'm so—uh, so for anybody that's going through that, I'm so uneducated, so take what I just said and I'm just throwing it out there.

Voice of God, V2K is what Robert Duncan was saying.

That was voice to skull.

Voice to skull, right?

Steve, look that up. That's going to be—you’re going to find a rabbit hole there.

And that was originally—they started that in the 1950s with Dr. Jorge Delgado, I think, at Harvard University. He put it inside of a bull's head, if I remember.

It's been a long—

This is what Jack was talking about on the podcast where they were trying to—he did it to a little girl too, which doesn't get a lot of media.

And it was—she thought he was her dad, and they did some interesting stuff that's probably unethical.

How it works, the simplified diagram shows a speech prosthetic in action.

What is this? Is this the voice to skull?

This is voice to skull.

There's not a lot of info on it.

Yeah, I wouldn't imagine you get is a bunch of crazy books.

So with this stuff, I don't think I'm in any danger, but do you ever start looking at some of this and feel like I might fall off of like a schizophrenia cliff looking at some of this stuff?

No, I'm not—I don't think I'm too disposed to that, but it's definitely like fun, you know what I mean?

Because the thing about this kind of stuff is it seems—it's a double-edged sword where it just seems so [ __ ] crazy that like you can't talk about this at dinner with anybody in your family, right?

Anybody that won't—that doesn't listen to podcasts 24/7, you can't just have a casual conversation because they're going to look at you like you have two heads.

But at the same time, like how much of that is real? You know, like how much of that is like—is it packaged in this wild woo-woo wrapping intentionally so people don't take it seriously?

Yeah!

So I had a mentor who was an intelligence guy, a psychiatrist, but when I was like 20-something years old, he was in his mid-70s.

But he one time told me something that scared the hell out of me.

And he said this hypothetically to me, but he said, "If we ever captured somebody and we want to completely discredit them during the interview, interrogation, during the—you know, whatever's happening, I'm going to have someone in a clown suit walk by and squirt water on them with a flower.

I'm going to have a person dressed as a giraffe come in there and touch him on the head. I'm going to have the craziest stuff known to man mixing in with this sleep deprivation so that all of his testimony sounds schizophrenic."

And that was—that's what I think of when I see some of this stuff, like all of these websites, and I'm like, "How much is just added on to make it over-dramatized to where it's just too much?"

That all the time!

I do too!

Are you familiar with Paul Benowitz, the case of Paul Benowitz?

This is one of my favorite examples of this.

No!

So Paul Benowitz was the—sorry to everyone who's listening that have heard me regurgitate this a thousand times, but—uh, Steven, your ears are bleeding; he just takes his headphones off when I tell the story.

He was a—I believe it was in the '60s or '70s. He was like a big-time UFO guy, right? He was like the top guy in the UFO community who lived in, I think it was New Mexico, over the mountain from a big Air Force base.

And he was seeing these UFOs flying over this mountain almost every night, right before someone down—and the Air Force caught wind of it, right?

And they sent over the head of counterintelligence at that Air Force base, his name was Richard Doty, to pay a visit to see what he knew, see what kind of footage he had or whatever it was because they knew, you know, this wasn't aliens.

They knew that they were testing, you know, crazy—this was right before the stealth bomber came out.

So he went over to visit Paul Benowitz, and he was like, "Show me what you got. Let's see what you have here."

Show it!

And so we started showing this counterintelligence guy from the Air Force base all the footage he had, asking him questions about it.

Then Richard Doty, the Air Force guy, was like, "Oh man, this is kind of spooky. I think this might be [ __ ] aliens. I don't know what this is."

Because he knew that it wasn't aliens, but he also knew that the UFO community was infiltrated by Russian spies, and these Russian spies were in this UFO community specifically to get information on what the US had or what was going on over here.

Yeah!

So he used Paul Benowitz as a conduit to sow disinformation into the UFO community and to sort of poison the well.

Yeah!

So that the spies that were in—any sort of spies that they thought could have been in that UFO community in the US would be diverted.

Yeah!

And that's a great example!

Another one—one of my other favorite examples was when they were first testing the first jet planes at Area 51. When the CIA pilots were testing the first jet-propelled airplanes, they would send them up in the [ __ ]—they would send a gorilla mask in the cockpit with them so in case they got in within visual distance of a civilian airplane, they'd put the gorilla mask on.

Yeah!

That [ __ ] is genius!

I remember reading that!

They've been doing that forever!

Yeah!

Let's just overdo it!

M, let's just make the story 10 times crazier than it should be.

So if they were doing that in the '60s, imagine what they're doing today, especially with Google and YouTube and this just monopoly of information.

Yeah!

And one of the things, man, like if I could slightly change this track that we're on, one of the fastest ways I've ever discovered is to get somebody off of one track of thinking and start getting them to start believing something else is—you've heard of the Kübler-Ross grief model before, where it's like denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance?

And those are like the five stages of grief that we all go through. It's debated, maybe on Wikipedia or something, but I subscribe to it, and I've witnessed it a bunch of times.

Conversationally, you can walk someone through those five stages of grief without them even knowing that they're going through that process and get them to relinquish control over like a previously held belief or a previously held, you know, whatever you want them to get rid of.

And it is so fast! I've used it in interrogations before, and I've used it in just situations where I want to get somebody's mind to change on anything.

So if I think of something like you have a belief of X, and I want to change it, like you're holding on to this belief—let's say I'm a door-to-door sales guy, and I'm selling you solar.

And I want to get you out of the mindset that like solar is for X number of people or this type of person. All I have to do is get you to denial.

I say one or two things to get you angry, then I start talking about like the different options that you have and get you into a bargaining mindset, and then talk about how all of your options are limited and like everything is so far out of our control and like push you into depression.

And then I get you into acceptance.

A thousand times easier, a thousand times faster!

So one of my clients owns a solar roofing company out on the West Coast, and he goes door-to-door. Or he owns a company that goes kind of door-to-door, and I've given this to them.

I don't know if it would work in this situation, but they use this in door-to-door sales now, and they can just wipe somebody's—not wipe it, but get someone over their emotional ties to something that they held previously.

Wow!

It's a fascinating thing, just identifying that grief cycle.

And then I'm not just looking at it as a psychologist or a psychiatrist and like, "Oh, this is what humans go through." I'm looking at it as like, "Oh, that's what humans go through. Why don't I just make you go through it and get you out of something that you used to be in?"

Interesting!

Are there certain types of neighborhoods he targets? Do you target neighborhoods of people that are suggestible?

Not necessarily rich neighborhoods because these people are going to be like, "Not going to take any [ __ ]!"

I don't know; I think they do target high-net-worth people, really.

I think they do those neighborhoods for sure because I know he's got a lot of those clients, man. He's the most interesting dude ever! You should have him on the show.

I don't know if he would talk about aliens and stuff, but he's a cool dude.

But that just—that grief model was so powerful in understanding, you know, what shapes our behavior and what can change our behavior.

Because all the evidence, everything that you need to know is out there. There's all these studies of like, "This is how humans process this; this is how humans respond to authority," like we talked about.

But even more important than that is if we could kind of get on this influence train for a second is—and this goes back to all this conspiracy stuff and how people get wrapped up in it—is everything that you look at, like if you search YouTube right now for influence training or persuasion or how to have confidence or charisma, you know, fill in the blank, whatever you want, they're going to teach you how to change someone's thoughts and ideas.

But if you can get down to the mammalian brain, now you're changing identity.

So identity is what you truly want to change. You want someone to finish a conversation by in their head saying, "I am the type of person who blank," not "I think blank," but "I am."

You want them to make an "I am" statement.

Robert Cialdini has done studies on this and written books about it. He wrote "Persuasion," which was a great book about it.

But so much of what people think influences us is what influences a human brain, not what influences the mammalian part of our brain, the limbic system, this lower part of our brain.

If someone can influence that in any of us—and myself included, I don't have some influence vaccine; like I'm as suggestible as the next person—if I can get to how I influence a mammal, which we were talking about this before we hit record, if I can influence the mammalian part of the brain, I can get somebody to do just about anything.

And that's in that model that we talked about or that brought up on screen.

Yeah!

So how is this practical in the things that you were doing in the military or in—did you work with like actual intelligence agencies in the military?

Not while I was on active duty.

After the military?

Yeah!

How did that come about?

It was initially I made an offer to train SCOPS for free, and then the only way that I developed my name for myself is as a trial consultant.

And I had no experience, no credentials, nothing coming out of the military. So I offered a 200% money-back guarantee on my fee, which I couldn't have paid.

I could not have paid it! I was terrified the first case that I took, and I was up like three days in a row trying to prepare for just profiling one person.

And that's kind of what put me on the radar for some of those people.

And once I developed this chart, it looks like the periodic table of elements. It's called the behavioral table of elements, and we can bring it up there.

It's fascinating!

Let me just walk you through this thing really quick.

Yeah!

It's a map of this thing right here.

No, no, no!

Oh no, just Google behavioral table of elements, and you'll see it.

You'll see it up there.

But essentially, it's every behavior that a human being can do rated from least deceptive to most deceptive, and it's free online.

I don't even charge money for it or anything.

That's it!

So each one of those is a little human behavior, and they're rated from least deceptive to most deceptive.

Okay!

And each one of those cells is some kind of thing like, um, like SHG right there is shrug.

And if it's in blue letters, that means you're more likely to see that behavior during cold temperatures, which takes away from the meaning of it.

So this is like the ultimate one-page guide to reading a human being. This is all of our behavior.

So all on here, you can see how likely it is to be deceptive, whether or not you're going to see it before, during, or after someone's statement, or the score of deception, the behaviors that are going to confirm your findings, the behaviors that are going to amplify it and give you more information.

So everything on the right is the most deceptive or most stressed, where there's no behavior for deception, and everything on the left is the least—they're the most comfortable.

Everything in like that turquoise is facial expressions, and everything on the very bottom is what happens outside of our body, just like how we interact with like objects on the table and the stuff that we actually say, like rising vocal pitch, increasing speed, a non-answer statement.

So those are all the different ways that we can be deceptive in our speech.

So I try to get all behavior for deception detection on one sheet, so each one of these is backed by a minimum of four pieces of research to make it onto this table.

Wow!

So what are the most effective ways or the quickest, most effective way to cut down to that primal mammalian brain?

So the biggest two things are going to be authority and novelty.

So if we go back, like, I don't know, 20,000 years, the average group of human beings was 120, 150 people in these tribal societies.

Let's say you went out and fished every day, came home every day, and brought the fish back to your tribe.

And let's say every day you pass by almost the same pathway, and you walk by this one bush.

And one day you're walking by this bush, and the sun's about to set, and a stick snaps behind that bush.

That has all of your attention. You're not thinking about your kids; you're not worried about the food that you're holding; you're not worried about whether or not you have to go to the bathroom.

Every piece of your focus—you're not even caring about your family right now for that one or two seconds that that stick is snapping behind that bush.

MH!

So when our brain is running a program of prediction, which is what we're doing now, we have conversations. I'm going to predict that in a few seconds you're going to say something, and then you know that I'm going to say something.

And if I'm driving, I have a script for that and everything. If you can just get good at scripts, it will change your life and understanding behavioral scripts.

So what does a person's script really say?

So if I'm running a script that says I'm walking back to my tribe with fish right now, and that script is interrupted, that's when we generate mammalian brain focus.

So we interrupt something that was expected. So I expected nothing to happen, and then something was back there.

So our brain generates focus to respond to two different things, which is a potential threat or potential value.

So if you're in the car, any kind of wild movement out of the corner of your eye, even if you're like texting and driving, anything that looks different than my brain's scripted responses, it says there's a potential threat.

Does that make sense?

Yeah!

So anything that's novelty that breaks away helps so much.

And if you watch an episode of "Dog Whisperer" with Cesar Millan, the way that he trains dogs is step one: let's break the script.

I'm going to break the behavioral script, and we're going to do something that you aren't able to predict, and you can't really figure out what's going to happen next yet.

H!

So that's the number one way to generate that focus, and focus is the gateway to the mammalian brain.

And authority is number two.

So if we bring up that crazy circle diagram that I airdropped you, that center ring is everything that influences a mammal.

So you think of training a dolphin; you think of training a dog; you think of like teaching a cow to do a trick or something for a show.

It's all these four things, no matter what mammal it is.

And this is focus, and then we have authority.

So authority is next, and authority is comprised of five traits when it comes to human beings, and that's confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment.

Those are the five things that just kind of tripwire other people's brains to say, "I need to follow this person."

And then we have tribe. This is our association to what are other people doing. I'm going to go along with the crowd, what the crowd is doing, and I need to think about the people around me.

And then we have emotion, and these are the repetitive behaviors and scripts and things that we follow along through our life.

So like tying your shoes is easy because your brain develops scripts for things to save you energy and time, right?

So if I can hack my way—if you look at—so let's look at this from an infomercial standpoint.

So infomercial starts, they like loud voice, flashes on screen that, you know, the black and white video of someone like struggling to like open a lid or something.

You're getting all this like focus that's coming up, novelty that you're not expecting.

Then it gets into authority: how many that they've sold, how many people that they've helped, all the reasons that they're doing this big comp.

They say, "This is blah blah incorporated," or "We've sold 10 million of these," or whatever, right?

Then we get into a tribe. I'm going to show you lots and lots of clips of all your friends, people that look similar to you using this thing with a happy face on.

I want to show people using it when they've got friends over for the Super Bowl party.

So now I'm triggering tribe upon tribe.

So now you're using the ShamWow to clean up at your big barbecue that you're going to have in your backyard.

So I'm triggering all these tribal emotions, and then finally at the end, I'm triggering all the scripts.

So behavioral scripts of mammals—mammals respond to several behavioral scripts, but the biggest one is scarcity.

So scarcity is not a human script; it's a mammalian script.

And that scarcity might be, you know, the sale in Sunday, or let's say a pack of dogs and the water is running out, or the food supply is going to run out.

So that primes any mammal for action.

Any kind of scarcity.

So you get to the end of the infomercial, and there's a countdown timer: "We've only got 10 of these left for the next 20 people that call. We're going to only give these—we only have 12 minutes left on the clock right now!"

Yeah!

So everything that truly persuades another person at a deep level—because you can change someone's mind about an idea or win a debate, but you do that on a human level, not a mammalian level.

So once you get good at understanding what influences human beings, you can do anything.

So even just looking at the Milgram experiment, they only needed three of those things on the human influence.

So this outer ring right here, we have focus, compliance, suggestibility, connection, openness, and expectancy.

We only had three of those for the Milgram experiment.

Did they have focus? Hell yeah! There's tons of novelty.

I'm in a room I've never been in at a university I've never been to with two people I've never met before sitting in front of this shocking machine that I've never seen before, reading this quiz out loud into a mic.

I've never seen the quiz; I've never SE—everything's novelty there.

So there are tons of focus. Authority was there; the guy in the lab coat. Tribe was there; there's definitely emotion, behavioral scripts of responding to authority, keeping continuing to go on.

So they had all of those four things, and the emotion was, "I need to be compliant because what is the authority figure telling him?"

Yeah!

"Keep going; it's not a big deal," right?

So that automatically triggers tribe and emotion because if I'm the authority figure and I say, "Yeah, go ahead, Denny, it's not a big deal," you're going to assume everyone else does the same thing you do.

So my authority, even though it's just me, you're going to assume everyone else responds to me with compliance.

Does that make sense?

Yeah!

So I have all of the mammalian brain involved right there in the Milgram experiment, but in the Milgram experiment, human brain on the second outer circle here, focus, I have compliance, and I have suggestibility.

There is zero connection to the guy in the lab coat or the guy on the other side of the wall.

There's zero openness; that person is not opening up their heart or anything like that or becoming vulnerable in that situation.

And there's zero expectancy; they have no idea to predict really what's coming next, right?

So the mammalian brain wins the show if you get focus, and that novelty is what they missed when they did the dissection of the Milgram experiment.

They said it was obedience to authority.

It's a triggering of novelty and how that makes you vulnerable to authority.

If there was no novelty—let's pretend that you were doing the Milgram experiment, but it's at your house.

It wouldn't work as much because you're used to that environment.

You have script familiarity.

So if I haven't broken you out of a script yet—

Oh wow!

So that's the biggest thing that they forgot about in the Milgram experiment is novelty, novelty, novelty.

If you break somebody out of scripts, behavioral scripts.

Mhm!

And just as a simple way to understand this, think about the difference between, let's say you're checking out at Starbucks, and you're paying them money.

What is her—let's say that barista—let's say it's a woman. What does her behavioral script say is going to happen?

Let's say you go, "Oh yeah, how about the weather? It's beautiful weather this week."

Is that triggering us, or is that in her script for you to say random [ __ ] like that?

Yeah!

Everybody who comes—she's used to that kind of [ __ ]!

Yeah!

But you say something off the wall. You say something bizarre like, "Did you see the fight that happened outside?" or something like that.

That breaks a behavioral script and automatically generates focus because the brain does not know, "I can predict what's coming up next."

So the moment we get a human brain to think, "I cannot predict what's going to happen next," we generate focus instantaneously.

And during that slight window of focus—even if it's a tiny window of focus—your level of authority comes through like, "Hey!"

And then you start doing something with that confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment—those five traits.

You start exhibiting those five traits during that, then you have authority, and then tribe and emotion are really easy.

Those are just behavioral scripts that you can hack into.

Do you ever just find yourself in everyday life [ __ ] around with people?

Every day!

Yeah!

Just toying with them at the drive-thru?

Yeah!

I did—I have a thank you email from Delta Airlines for this, but there was a guy on a flight that I was on who was jacked—jacked!

Like he was probably 285, less body fat than me, and just a gigantic, scary, scary out of his gills.

Yeah!

Big time!

And this guy's walking up the aisle, up and down the aisle. Things are bulging down; he's holding his fist. I'm like, "This guy's going to hurt somebody!"

So I told the flight—he looked mad.

Yeah!

He looked upset—not mad; he looked really upset.

And I told the flight attendant, I was like, "Hey, did you talk to this guy? He might talk to him; he looks like he's violent."

And she said, "Oh, I've already asked him if he's okay. He said he's really depressed, and he's thinking about killing himself."

I'm like, "Can you tell somebody on the plane?"

Like I said, "Do you mind if I can I go talk to him? Are you all going to tackle me or anything if I try to go talk to them?"

They're like, "No, no."

So I went over there, and I used a stage hypnosis trick to put him into hypnosis on a plane.

And we're up in the front of the plane, like where the galley is.

And you know those little fold-down chairs that the flight attendants sit in?

That's the last place you want a guy like that sitting!

We did—we sat right there!

Oh my God!

Because there was no—I mean, all the seats were full.

So I was like, "All right, you go to sleep now, blah blah blah."

Put him in—put him into a trance, sat him down in the seat, and just kind of reframed all of his beliefs.

But I did it through this system. I was like, "All of your focus is at the wrong place. Your authority is getting the wrong place. So you're hanging—I don't know who you are, who your friends are, but you're hanging out with the wrong people," which is your tribe.

And you're following the wrong behavioral scripts.

Whatever scripts you're following right now, when you take a pair of scissors, imagine those as a bunch of strings and cut them off.

Cut them in half!

Like the guy's a new person!

Went back to his seat, and I'm talking—I'm paraphrasing 10 minutes of talking that I did with him.

And he went back to his seat, and then he found me on Instagram, I don't know, a month or two later and wrote me a really, really nice thank you letter.

He's a really sweet guy!

Wow!

Super cool guy!

But I don't know why I went off on that tangent.

Well, I was asking you just like just going around everyday life and having this information, like you must be just so observant of just random interactions with people.

Yeah!

And you'd be surprised, like if you break someone's script, even if you do it in a fun way and make somebody's day better, but you start kind of experimenting with the stuff, and you see how fragile and how easily hacked into our brains are.

We could be made—if you look at the Milgram experiment, that means 67% of people can be talked into murder within 48 minutes, I think is what they did the experiment in.

Wow!

So we can get hacked into pretty easily, and I think the way that you get out of that, the way that you avoid that is learning how vulnerable you are.

Because the more you think you're like, "Oh, I'm immune to that stuff," if that's like me buying a Windows computer and saying, "Oh, I don't believe in viruses. I'm not going to download that mappy thing."

But if I believe that I'm vulnerable, then I get the antivirus.

Then I'm aware of it, and I'm looking out.

You have to know that you're vulnerable.

How does somebody determine how vulnerable they are?

I don't know if a number system would help or if that would really help that much.

Maybe smooth lower eyelids is the key, huh?

I don't know!

How do you know? You know that you're suggestible, right? Like you said that multiple times already.

How does somebody know? Like that would be vulnerability, right? If you're suggestible.

Yeah!

If you—I would say if you find yourself clicking on ads on a regular basis, if you find yourself maybe buying stuff on Instagram or Facebook or whatever on a regular basis, which I do to this day.

I got this watch because of an Instagram ad!

So I buy [ __ ] on Instagram too—a lot!

Quite a bit!

Their algorithm is so good!

Yeah!

Because I'll buy stuff, and I'll be like, "Man, that ad was made for me! They made that ad for me!"

But if you find yourself doing that stuff, or if you find yourself going down rabbit holes that don't make logical sense once you back away from it, it doesn't make sense.

That's—that's the way that you—like if I'm doing those things, I need to put some stuff in place, put some hurdles for me so I don't make impulsive decisions.

And if you are good at influence, that's what you're really good at: weaponizing cognitive dissonance, number one.

So if you're good at influence, you're using cognitive dissonance as a weapon.

Number two, you're good at identity and crafting and shaping who a person—not who they think they are, who they publicly say they are.

Those are two different things.

So if I can get you to publicly agree that you are one type of person, even if it's a very small commitment, then I'm starting to shape identity and who you publicly agreed that you are, who you are as a person.

And I think at the end of the day, that's what truly matters.

I'm just shaping those two things: identity. I'm using identity as the hallway and cognitive dissonance as the wall.

It's fascinating!

So when you were a—you said you were a trial consultant in the beginning.

Mhm!

What sort of cases were you taking, and how were you—were they like murder cases or—

Or um, we've worked—I’ve worked a couple of big high-profile ones.

And did you do the Amber Heard/Johnny Depp?

No!

Damn it!

I think the whole world did that one!

Yeah!

Yeah, but most of the ones that I did were just—to be honest, it was wealthy people that were being sued because they owned a business, and then people were suing them.

Mhm!

So that was—that's usually what it is, and it's there—most of them were jury trials.

Interesting!

And some of them were wealthy person with tax evasion or wealthy person with—most of those like complaints, it was people you've never heard of that maybe own a small country club or own a little medical practice or something like that or a plastic surgery clinic.

Mhm!

And they get a lawsuit, and they go to a jury trial for a lot of these, and we'll go in and pick the jury and/or help them pick the jury.

Really?

Yeah!

How do you help them pick the jury?

We talk to them about what questions to ask, number one, and then what behavioral profile you're going to look for, what kind of person.

So like, oh wow!

If I—let's say I did a case pro bono one time.

Yeah!

I can talk about it. A lady was suing a grocery store chain because she slipped on a green bean or piece of watermelon or something on the floor.

And so we needed a jury, you know what locus of control is?

Like an external locus or an internal locus?

So it's either like I believe the world happens to me, like maybe a victim, or I believe I happen to the world; I choose my fate.

So we wanted a jury with an external locus of control who would be more likely to decide on a victim's side.

Does that make sense so far?

So we would ask these jury members the only question—it's just one question because the attorneys are allowed to ask several questions.

I don't—I don't know the law very well, but I think it differs by state.

But the question we passed around to each jury member to determine locus of control was, "How does a person catch a cold?"

That's it!

So let's—and I'll let you be the trial consultant here.

So you hear one juror say, "Well, I didn't take my vitamins enough. I didn't take care of myself. I didn't really wash my hands. I didn't sanitize when I should have sanitized. I have vitamin C at home, but I always forget to take it, and that's my fault."

And I mean, there's probably a million reasons.

You hear another juror say, "Well, there's a million reasons you can catch a cold. These little kids picking their nose, wiping boogers on the stair rails. There's people coughing and not covering up their mouth. There's people that are going outside their house, and they're sick that you became a trial consultant just then."

Like, you know exactly the type of person that you're dealing with in both of those cases, right?

Because one's external and one's an internal locus.

So there we come up with a bunch of questions like that that determine who—what is the psychological profile that I'm looking for in a jury?

Let me ask you this: what is the psychological profile of the jury you want to pick for this guy that just whacked the CEO of the United Health?

I definitely want to pick people who have an external locus of control and feel like the world happens to them.

Wouldn't one of the questions be, "What is your feeling towards insurance companies?"

Like, how do you feel? What is your disposition towards insurance companies?

If that is one of the questions, how the [ __ ] do you find somebody who doesn't have a negative feeling towards insurance companies?

Right?

And I feel like you have to either be a CEO of an insurance company or not.

It's black and white!

If you're a CEO, you like insurance companies. If you're not a CEO, you probably don't like them.

So I feel like it's going to be a difficult jury.

Yes, but when the thing is, when you ask a jury pointed questions like that, they can do what's called a manipulative answer or a—I forget the word that we use—countermeasure.

So we call it a countermeasure answer.

So let's say I ask you, "Do you like insurance companies?" or whatever, and you can know that that's about the case, and you really want to be on this case.

Got it!

So you can make stuff up.

So the question for this trial would—it usually takes me a while to get them ready to go, right?

But the question for this trial would be, "Do you think large companies have our best interest at heart?"

And I wouldn't say yours; I would say our best interest at heart.

So now they're answering for a collective instead of themselves.

It's harder to dodge, and it's not straight on the nose where a person knows what the right answer is and what the wrong answer is.

You want to ask them the question that's ambiguous that gets them to reveal the most data without knowing it.

Mhm!

Yeah, it still seems like it's going to be hard because even with that question, I feel like you're going to get a pretty much flatline answer for most of the people that are on that jury.

But you know, you could—I mean, there's a bunch of ways you could do it.

Like, yeah, on a scale of 1 to 5, how much do you agree with the phrase, "We reap what we sow?"

And then have the jury answer that way as well.

Yeah!

They'd have to be pretty big.

What was that model you just telling me about?

FATE!

F-A-T-E!

The FATE model!

Yeah!

Focus, Authority, Tribe, and Emotion!

Okay!

And that will dictate whether or not you're successful.

And I mean, we have AI coming up; we've got economic stuff that's going on.

But if you go back to BC years, this is what determined your ability to leverage this stuff was what determined whether or not your business succeeded, whether or not you got elected in political offices.

MH!

And I don't think this AI will ever replace having human skills.

And there's a lot of people that want that.

I think there's an obsession with scripts nowadays, like where they're like, "What do you say exactly?"

Because there's even books—you go on Amazon, it's like, "Exactly what to say."

There's books that are titled this, like "What to say when blah blah blah," just for like normal everyday social encounters.

Yeah!

So I had so many clients that come to me because I'm anti-script, and then they get into my inner circle.

I have this like kind of an elite coaching group that meets—we meet every week on Sunday.

And they all secretly are like, "Hey man, so what's the script?"

So they still get it; they still have that like obsession with scripts, which I did for a decade or two working with influence and trying to figure out how people are convinced to do things.

And it—everybody focuses on what do you say, what do you say?

So here's the question that I would pose for any of those people that are wondering if I need some script for something.

If I have a—let's say this is a flight checklist for a Boeing 737.

Me pushing this over to you and you taking possession of it does not make you a pilot.

Let's say I have a perfect sales script that—let's say I spent 10 million developing the most amazing sales script

Operative or salesperson, I think it's people that own businesses that want to be better leaders. Learning all of these techniques makes you a better leader in general, especially if you have empathy and you're a decent human being. Is that a foundational trait of human beings? To want to be leaders? Is that like a primal instinct? If you go deep into the brain, is that one of the foundational drives of human beings?

I think it is one of them—to be followed and revered. For some people, I think we have a few different needs that we strive for in life. We have significance, which is for people that strive to be significant. We have approval, where people spend their whole lives striving for some kind of recognition or approval. Then we have acceptance; these are people that thrive on belonging and being part of something.

Next, we have intelligence; people want to be seen as smart. Then there are the power people; they need to be seen as strong or powerful. You'll see a lot of posturing behavior like that. So, you'll see power people and significance people both rise up into leadership positions for very different reasons—one for legacy and one for self-gratification. Finally, we have pity.

So, those are the six basic needs we have from other people. I can't feel significant unless other people confirm it. I can't feel intelligent unless other people confirm it. When it comes to significance-driven people, that's mostly what's in my Mastermind. I've got politicians in there, psychotherapists, and psychiatrists. There are people coming to learn these skills to talk others out of suicide or self-harm or to help someone walk their way out of an eating disorder.

There's a lot of different people in there. Then again, there are some people in there that are just... I've got a guy in there who is a stage performer. He does some kind of magic or something like that on stage and wants to know how to manipulate the crowd better to make the show better.

When people say manipulation, it's like saying a scalpel is bad. It's only bad if I stab you with it. I can also save your life with a scalpel, right? So, what we do with it—the same techniques that a cult recruiter uses to talk somebody into joining a cult are the same techniques that a hostage negotiator uses to talk somebody off of a ledge or that a suicide crisis hotline operator uses.

Interesting. So, I need to capture this focus, get the authority in there, and just walk this person back into reality. Yes, that's why I've had a lot of former Scientologists on this podcast. We live in the literal world capital of Scientology; the flag building of Scientology is less than five miles away from here in Clearwater.

One of the main hooks to get people into Scientology, which I think is a super beneficial learning lesson and has value for people, is that Dianetics book. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but there's this book that L. Ron Hubbard wrote. It's great; it seems like a great way to get rid of all the negative influences in your life and become a better version of yourself, right?

But then, once you get beyond that, that's usually when the sinister, manipulative things come into play. That's how you hook them into the cult—by dangling that carrot or that shiny fruit up front and then figuring out how to capitalize on somebody after that, once you get them in the door, so to speak.

I think a lot of cults work that way, where they present beneficial stuff that can change your life. You get into that, and you're like, "Well, I'm starting to see some benefits." That's why there are so many successful people in Scientology. I mean, that's a super way to optimize your life.

If you have a business, they published a series of books back in the '70s called "Success Through Communication." They're little blue books you can find on eBay, but they're fabulous. They have great techniques in there. But I guess there's... I don't know much about Scientology, just to put that out there, but I guess there's some point where you get all this confidence. You get more confident in your life, and you're starting to feel like you're more in charge of the world around you.

You can get that feeling, right? And then they're like, "Okay, we're going to walk through this door, and now it's time to talk about aliens," like Xenu, the Galactic Overlord. Right? So, I never got that. I think so much of the techniques in Scientology were copied by the CIA.

On paper, L. Ron Hubbard invented this thing called the Alice in Wonderland Technique. We need to bring this up on the screen. Find it, Steve. I haven't heard of this one. Did you know about the story of how David Miscavige, the new leader of Scientology, literally had thousands of his members file civil lawsuits against the IRS? That's how they achieved their status as an actual religion to get tax exemption. The IRS just couldn't handle all the lawsuits; they overwhelmed them.

All right, what do we got here? Okay, which one of these are we looking at? TR4, the coach? Okay, TR4. Dear Alice, the student reads several lines from "Alice in Wonderland" to the coach as if they are saying them themselves. The coach then acknowledges or flunks the student based on how clearly they communicated the line.

Other training routines in Scientology include independent book study and cooperative activities. Hird's writings emphasized that auditing subjects are machines to be manipulated rather than autonomous people.

So, the line goes right down to that Reddit thing. Why Alice? Okay, you don't have to read the article, but essentially what L. Ron Hubbard does is have people read out of this book, "Alice in Wonderland." The verbiage is very confusing, and L. Ron Hubbard openly wrote about this in his work.

The CIA, without even attributing anything to him, copied it almost word for word in an interrogation manual, and I have that PDF too. Really? Oh yeah. And then the grandfather of hypnotherapy, Milton Erickson, started writing about it.

Being able to speak confusing phrases helps you to be more persuasive. They discovered this in the '50s and '60s. If I can confuse your brain, your brain acts as though it's falling. If you imagine when you're falling, your limbs are flailing all over the place, and the first solid object they come into contact with, it's going to grab around it no matter what, even if it's a thorn bush or something.

Right? So, anything solid in that moment of confusion is going to get grabbed onto. The corollary to this is if a person's confused, the first logical piece of information they hear after being confused will be automatically accepted or more automatically accepted without being screened or scrutinized by the brain.

Does this make sense? Yeah. So, practically, how would this be used? If you spoke a confusing phrase very confidently and then told somebody to just completely open up right afterward, you're going to lower a whole lot of defenses for any technique you want to use afterward.

So, that's a basic way to say that. An example would be... and you know that this is a confusing statement, but if we're in a conversation and I'm speaking in a really confident way, and I said something like, "How different would it be if the same thing started looking now like it wouldn't change if nothing else really did, and you could just get completely open?"

So, getting good at those statements... the one that I just said out loud is very effective. You can try this out. I've had people in my coaching group use this on stage in large groups of people. I think some of them have used it to do an upsell before.

You can tie a logical thought at the end of a confusion statement. Getting people good at being confusing is good to make them more powerful communicators. But the auditor, I think, is what they call the person that reads things to the subject across the table. They are using those confusing statements and inserting those things afterward.

It's in the textbook of "Success Through Communication." I wish I could bring that up. Man, the auditing thing is a bizarre aspect of Scientology because they have these E-meter machines. I don't know if you're familiar with them, but GSR...

A GSR? Yeah, where they hold these two rods, and then they ask them personal questions and get these people just to open up about their deepest, darkest secrets. It's a galvanic skin response they're measuring. It's the same thing you would have in a polygraph.

Oh really? Yeah. And it's just wild because it's super effective in basically blackmailing people. I've loved the E-meter concept for a while. I don't think it's extremely reliable for reading human emotion.

Well, neither is the polygraph, right? No, but I mean, there are new neural networks that are 98.4% effective at detecting human risk. They can call you on your cell phone and ask you a yes or no question, and it's 98.4% effective, proven by Carnegie Mellon and the Department of Defense.

As a disclaimer, I am on the board of that company, but it is scary accurate. What kind of questions do they ask you? You can ask anything. We can use it to find bad guys overseas. We can use it to screen people for job interviews, insurance fraud.

We're going to be using it in boxing soon just to ask people if they are doping or blood doping or whatever. Can you pass the test? The system is called Asterisk, but it can just ask you for... it's an AI that calls your phone and says, "Here are the questions you're going to be asked." It tells you the questions beforehand, and they're all yes or no.

It asks you four or five yes or no questions, and it's 98.4% plus accurate. Wow, in detecting risk. But it's more like a metal detector at an airport because calling something a lie detector is just not... I don't think it's accurate.

You could... I don't think anything should be called a lie detector. It's just like when you go to the airport. If the machine goes off, it's almost 100% sure that there's something big and metal on your body, whether or not it's a belt buckle or an AK-47 is going to be up to a human.

Right? So, this AI that we're using is directing human attention. It's the fastest pathway to identify risk, but it's also the fastest pathway for me to find out if I have a group of a hundred people here, who can I trust? Where can I invest trust the fastest way?

So, that's what it really is. It's the fastest pathway to get to trust. I don't know how the hell we got... oh, the E-meter! Yeah, yeah. So, I've been obsessed with the E-meter. Dude, I went on eBay so many times and tried to find them. You can't find them.

Really? I think maybe Scientology buys them up. They probably do. But I do think L. Ron Hubbard was a genius, hands down. He was something, man. I think he was the most prolific science fiction writer of all time. I think, objectively, he wrote more science fiction than anyone we're aware of.

Yeah, so there's a lot of research out there that suggests he had a condition in his temporal lobe called hypergraphia. Whoa, bless you! Damn, that was aggressive.

So, there's some research that says he most likely suffered from a condition called temporal lobe epilepsy, which produces a byproduct called hypergraphia, where it's this incessant, almost unsatisfiable need to write and continue writing.

Steve, you can probably bring that up. Just type in "L. Ron Hubbard temporal lobe epilepsy." It is a very compelling case. People with temporal lobe epilepsy... I am one of them. I have temporal lobe epilepsy.

What is the function of the temporal lobe? Time and memory. Okay, so there's temporal lobe epilepsy, a common type of epilepsy that affects the memory-regulating temporal lobe of the brain.

Wow, so that's where your hippocampus is. There's a lot of crap going on down there. But, oh wow, I was at a point in my life where I was having nine seizures a day, which I know you wanted to even open this episode with that talk, and I forgot. We were talking about this before we started.

Yeah, yeah. But I was having temporal lobe seizures nine times a day, and it is very, very adjacent to what you might experience on DMT, except it's scary, terrifying, and horror movie-esque. They last about a minute, and your body just is like a ragdoll. You're not shaking on the ground and doing crazy stuff, but it's like you have this weird access to another dimension for a time being.

I know there's people out there that are suffering with temporal lobe epilepsy right now, and I was able to stop mine—like 100% stop, zero seizures. Did it come out of nowhere?

No, they think it's probably a result of a genetic predisposition mixed with a bunch of deployments, being around explosions and stuff like that. So, getting a little tiny bit of a brain injury.

During temporal lobe epilepsy, those seizures you're experiencing, what I would call maybe between 90 days and a year of memories in 60 seconds. So, you're getting access to so much information and so much weird stuff, almost like you're living a year of someone else's life.

The moment the seizure is over, it took for one seizure, it took me like two weeks to reconcile what was real and what was fake. Then you have derealization in temporal lobe epilepsy, which is where you wonder, "Am I real? Is this room real? Am I actually sitting here right now?"

I had a point before our daughter was born where I thought my dog was fake. I thought my dog was artificial and not real—not like I'm imagining it; I just thought, "That is not a real dog."

It is so weird, man. It messes with your head. So, projection or something? I didn't put any logic to it; it just felt that it was not real.

As the seizure is starting, they call this an aura. You have this weird thing that goes on, like something's going on around me where you know it's going to happen. As it starts, the déjà vu is so powerful and so strong that in your brain, there is no possibility that everyone around me didn't set this up.

So, it's a weird feeling of like everything around me is so weirdly familiar that I know that everyone here had to set this up. So, it's almost like a weird paranoia. Then you think, "All of this can't be real."

The moment that happens, it's like you're going—like you jump off a building. It's like a falling feeling in your stomach, and then it's just lights out. So, it's terrifying, but you get... it's almost like there's some weird access to something that other people don't have access to.

They call this the sacred disease—temporal epilepsy and hypergraphia. I mean, look, I wrote that while I was suffering all that. So, I definitely had hypergraphia. It took me five years to write, but I wrote this book because I thought I was going to lose my whole brain, and I had to dump everything—even the super, super confidential stuff.

I put everything in the book—everything. I wanted all of my training to be in one location just so my wife could keep selling the book. That was the motivation to write. The motivation to write the book was my brain was dying, and I thought, "I'm not going to be a good provider. I can't provide for my family anymore."

So, I thought if I could just write this book that has everything in it, then we'll be okay. The kids can survive and feed, put food on the table and all that, even if I'm in a wheelchair or something, right? So, that's the only reason that book exists.

Wow. But coming back to L. Ron, I know how that feels. If he had temporal lobe epilepsy, I know how that feels, and that may explain a lot of those little internal components of what makes up Scientology.

Interesting. You said you had nine seizures a day? Yeah. And then you said these memories were coming back like a flood of memories, which felt like déjà vu. Were they your own memories all coming into one moment?

At the beginning, like the aura moment at the start? What do you mean specifically by aura? It's just a feeling when the seizure is about to start—not like a visual thing.

No, okay. But it wasn't memories. The déjà vu was... you know how it's uncanny? Everything around is so alien but familiar, like I've been here before, but times 5,000. It's off the charts.

Then after that, that's when the memories come in. It's not your own memories; it's something else. It's like months to maybe years of memories that happen in like 60 seconds.

I've had times right before I got married—I'm going to get emotional talking about it—right before I got married, I had maybe one of the worst. It was maybe two and a half minutes, three minutes long, and you lose about a million neurons a second in a seizure. It's bad.

So, I was thinking, "I'm [expletive]." I was in my office, hunched over the desk, and I had been in a seizure so long there was just a pool of saliva beside my desk. I was trying to scream.

Inside the seizure, it's like all those memories flooding and having sleep paralysis at the same time. Man, it's terrifying. It's not like DMT at all, but what I'm saying, the corollary is like you go somewhere else completely. You're gone.

It's so terrifying. Jesus Christ. How did you overcome this? How did you get over it?

So, I saw a neurologist, and they gave me a prescription that I won't say the name of the drug, but one of the most common side effects of the drug was seizures. It's like, "This cannot be real. This can't be real."

I've studied neuroscience for five years at this time, six years. So, I was scrolling through Instagram one day, taxiing on a runway in LA, and I see this dude on Instagram. He sounds like some California surfer dude, and he's talking about methylene blue.

Because of his accent, I judged him like an idiot, but I just kind of flipped past it. Then I realized what he was talking about, and I tried to go back to the post, but I hit the swipe right on accident. You know when you reset your scroll and you can't go back? I did that, and it took me like four days to find him.

His name is Dr. John Lance, and I'm going to introduce you to him tomorrow, which is going to be cool. Oh, that's the guy in Sarasota?

Yeah, so he's talking about methylene blue, which I know Jack Cruz has talked about here. I got some methylene blue. I started taking it after I had this lady, Alexis, PhD. It's called Troscriptions. They have a website; it's pretty cheap.

Is it hard? Inexpensive? No, they come in these little... they're called troches. If you see, it comes in these, and they're like... that's pretty much what I take. You just stick them right in the back of your... you can either keep them like in between your gum and your lip, and it stains your whole mouth blue, or you can just swallow it.

Yeah, want one? I took them this morning. Did you? I take them every day. I'm going to throw one in right now.

So, for methylene blue, I think it's the one thing that truly reversed everything that was going on with my brain. Every single symptom that I was having was just gone, and I credit everything to methylene blue and finding Dr. John. I buy my methylene blue from Dr. John's website just because I'm so passionate about it.

Wow. And methylene blue acts as, just to give you like a 60-second brochure of what it does, it's a light MAOI, a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. So, it helps our cells to get rid of the two things that we don't really want in our cells a lot of: reactive oxygen species and reactive nitrogen species.

It donates an electron; it donates a lot of electrons to mitochondria. The second thing that it does—well, it does a lot more than that—and it helps your body's main job is to take an oxygen molecule and stick some hydrogen on there and turn it into water. That's your body's job.

But sometimes it doesn't do that, and an oxygen molecule gets screwed up and turns into a reactive oxygen species. So, the second thing that it does is it has an affinity to neuronal tissue.

So, if you take that methylene blue right now, and then two hours from now we did an autopsy on you and let's say you died, your brain is blue—bright blue. Really? It gets into the brain, the spinal cord, all your nerves, brain stem, whole brain is all blue.

So, if I take one of those and I take a leak later, my pee is blue. Yeah, so... oh wow, look at that! The brain and the heart.

Oh yeah, man. So, how are they getting this into a dead person? They don't. That was probably a living person who was on methylene blue. Some of these may be used to stain.

Methylene blue is obviously a blue dye, right? Yeah, they use it for fish tank cleaner. So, this may be used to stain, but if you do an autopsy on a person who's on a dose of methylene blue higher than probably... scroll up... 2 milligrams per kilogram?

No, up farther. It shows the abstract. Yeah, go down. Down. Sorry, go ahead.

This says greenish-blue discoloration of the brain and heart were observed during the autopsy of a 63-year-old woman who had been treated with methylene blue for septic shock following... oh wow, following a traffic accident.

This placebo or avatar discoloration occurs when the colorless metabolite leucomethylene blue is oxidized to methylene blue upon exposure to atmospheric oxygen. Huh.

So, she was suffering from septic shock, and they gave her the methylene blue. Yeah, so it has an affinity for neuronal tissue.

So, this guy who discovered it in 1894, the Industrial Revolution was kicking off, and they're like, "Hey, we need to dye a bunch of stuff blue. We got a huge need for that."

So, this scientist invents, essentially invents or discovers this methylene blue, and he's [expletive] around with it. He shoots it into a rat and then does an autopsy on the rat, and the rat has a blue nervous system—the whole thing.

So, he's like, "There's something special about this. It's not just for dyeing stuff," because he was using it on slides to microscope slides.

Yeah, so it has an affinity to go into just the neuronal tissue and fix that first. It'll fix the rest of your body too because it goes everywhere, especially when you take intravenous methylene blue, which I'm going to be doing tomorrow.

But it is so incredible, and with the MAOI and it turning your body blue, you know it's blue because it reflects blue light, right? Which means that it absorbs red.

So, if I do red light therapy with methylene blue, I'm exponentially increasing... really? Oh yeah, you can fact-check me. Like Uncle Jack, type in methylene blue and red light therapy.

So, this combination is called photobiomodulation. Okay, so I'm using a red light machine and that methylene blue soaks up that red light.

What does this... this is PubMed. Find the abstract. Scroll down; it'll give you like a summary of what it is. There it is.

Protection against neurodegeneration: neurons are metabolically protected against degeneration using low-level methylene blue and infrared light and near-infrared light interventions. Both of these novel interventions act by a cellular mechanism involving enhancement of the electron transport chain in mitochondria.

This promotes energy metabolism and neuronal survival. Methylene blue preferentially enters neuronal mitochondria after systemic administration and at low doses forms an electron-cycling redox complex that donates electrons to the mitochondrial electron transport chain.

Interesting. Low-level near-infrared light applied transcranially delivers photons to cortical neurons that are accepted at cytochrome oxidase, cytochrome C.

Specifically, it would be cytochrome C oxidase. Oh wow!

Which increases cell respiration and cerebral blood flow. Breakthrough in vivo studies with these interventions suggest that targeting mitochondrial respiration may be beneficial for protection against different types of neurodegenerative disorders.

Oh my God, I had no idea that you could use them together. That makes sense how it would reflect the blue light and help you absorb more red light.

Yeah, so... and that cytochrome... just thinking of the word cytochrome. CYO means cell; chrome means color. So, always think like that's the color of light. Jack talked about this a lot, how we generate a little bit of near-infrared light in our cells.

So, cytochrome is the important chemical there, and he talked about magnetism with sulfur and iron and stuff that's in the mouth of cytochrome C oxidase.

So, doing that lets it absorb that. Your cells are kind of running on those photons instead of just the electrons. Wow, man.

Yeah, he was also explaining to me how one of his family members was going blind and needed cataract surgery. He told them to start doing this red light therapy every day for like months, and he was doing it, I think, for a couple of months.

He wasn't wearing the eye cover or whatever; he was just like fully exposed to this near-infrared light panel. I never knew he went in a couple of months before he had to get his operation done for his cataracts, and his vision was like... he didn't need the cataract surgery anymore.

It somehow reproduces visual neurons or like rebuilds these visual neurons. Yeah, I think what it probably does is make more ATP, which is adenosine triphosphate, which is our cell's energy.

So, those cells—cataracts is a degenerative disease, so we're getting less ATP. More ATP probably means that there is more connectivity; those cells had more energy to perform repairs on themselves.

Right? And the cool thing about mitochondria, which I was hoping that Jack would mention, is mitochondria is not human. It has different DNA than us. It's alien.

What do you mean by that? All right, Stephen, look it up. You got a skeptical face on again. I'm just trying to understand it. How does it have different DNA than us?

So, I'm just not... I don't know enough about this stuff. The theory—there's a theory now that mitochondria is the result of... DNA after that.

Oh wait, there you go. Mitochondria are considered unique because they have their own DNA called mitochondrial DNA, a double membrane structure, unlike most other organelles, and the ability to replicate independently within a cell.

Huh, okay. So, there's a theory that the mitochondria was its own little organism and formed a relationship with little single-cell organisms and said, "Hey, bro, I'm going to give you a bunch of energy. I'm going to help you absorb sunlight and live outside the water."

So, let's form this little relationship together. So, that's just a theory that somebody has. And how these things started working together because it's not human.

That's fascinating. That is pretty badass. Yeah, the water inside of the mitochondria is like the most important thing.

What Jack was explaining to me is that if you expose yourself to really cold temperatures, I think he calls it thermogenesis—cold water thermogenesis—your cells create, and your mitochondria actually create endogenous UV light inside the body.

Like UV, like blue light? Yeah, which is wild. You get better results if you're drinking water that has lower deuterium levels.

Yeah, that's why he drinks all that deuterium-depleted water. Oh, did he talk about that? I might have missed that part.

Yeah, he talked a little bit. Oh, Alexis talked about the deuterium-depleted water. Yeah, I drink it almost exclusively at home.

It's expensive, isn't it? It is very expensive. I order from this company called Lightwater. I have no affiliation with the company, but I... Light... no, Lit... okay, Lightwater Scientific, I think is the name of the company.

You can order it on Amazon, I think, even. Interesting. These little blue bottles, plastic bottles, and even the company recommends deuterium depletion is very important.

So, you don't have to just drink this water straight; you can pour it into your daily water intake, so you're getting less deuterium than normal. So, you're diluting the water with it, so you can still drink normal water out of a Berkey filter or something and then pour that stuff in there.

Yeah, and I think the idea is that, at least from the way Alexis explained this to me, is that closer latitudes that are closer to the equator have higher levels of deuterium in the water, and the higher up you get on the planet, the higher latitudes have less deuterium in them.

This has something to do with organisms that live and survive at upper latitudes where there's less sunlight. They get somehow... because there's less UV light, the colder temperatures compensate for the less UV light.

That's why their eyes are light; their eyes aren't dark like most people that live at equatorial latitudes. They have dark brown eyes because they don't need as much UV light because they're exposed to it all the time.

Have you heard the theory that you can't get a sunburn if you're not wearing sunglasses? Alexis explained that to me.

Yeah, really? Yeah, she was... well, she was explaining to me how there's an important mechanism where you have to be... if you're exposed to UV light, you can't... it's not good to block the UV light in the eyes and only get it on the skin.

That's how your skin develops those basal cell anomalies where you get skin cancer and stuff like that. Melanopsin, yes, the light. Yes, exactly.

So, it's not good if you're outside all day to be wearing sunglasses because you're blocking your light—your eyes—from creating that melanopsin from the UV light. You need to have that balance, and that's why Jack tells everybody to take off their sunglasses because he thinks that's like one of the biggest problems with people getting skin cancer and general health problems.

I mean, his whole idea about health is that exposure to UV light and getting out of artificial light is like the top thing for human health. He was explaining how food and hyper-processed foods and diet is like three or four down the ladder, down the rung, as far as low-hanging fruit to improve our health.

He was explaining that, like, essentially—which I think you made a good point about in the podcast I listened to you with—was that, you know, we exist today like human beings with the development of technology and us being inside all the time under these artificial lights.

It's almost the equivalent of orcas at SeaWorld being inside these big tanks all the time. It's just not good. Their life expectancy just goes down. They're killing their trainers. I mean, it's literally breaking them down in every way, shape, and form.

Yeah, and I think the closer we get to nature—what kept our ancestors alive—technology is outpacing our ability to adapt. Technology is outpacing our ability to adapt to it, yes, genetically.

We need to go back to what kept our ancestors alive, and that seems to... all these studies are discovering the stuff that our ancestors didn't even need research for because they just lived life in nature.

But I published a paper for, I don't know, a month or two ago called "Ancestor Confusion Theory." If you are spending time in a place that would confuse the [expletive] out of your ancestor that lived 10,000 years ago, the more time you spend in one of those places that would confuse your ancestor, the more you have depression, anxiety, loneliness, heart disease.

You look at cities, and these are like... I just did a podcast with Steven Bartle, the Diary of a CEO, and I was staying in Brooklyn. Looking out my hotel window, I can't find a piece of nature no matter where I looked. Every direction, there's nothing.

Right? So, I'm not claiming to have some solution to solve the Earth's problems, but I'm just making that correlation of when people are in environments that our bodies are not designed to be in, we have things that go wrong.

This applies to fish and dolphins. You take an octopus out of the ocean, put it in a tank—no matter how perfect the salinity of the water is and everything that you do in that tank to replicate nature perfectly, it shortens the lifespan of the octopus by years.

Yeah, so I think one of our modern world's biggest problems... I think the biggest problems in science are when we think we are special. Humans are more special than nature, and we can outsmart nature.

The thing that created us or whatever created us is like, "We are special." This is one of the biggest things. This goes back to the Earth being the center of the universe, and now aliens have to look like us.

All of these little things that we hear are especially with science; it's the root of the problems. It comes back to humans having to be special for this thing to be true.

One of the other things about this, like being exposed to more UV light, is the timing of it too. Like how this all connects to circadian biology and how the light—how the eyes play such an important role in this.

When you are up in the morning watching the sunrise, depending on where you are on the Earth, whenever the sun rises for like that first hour, and you're outside and your eyes are exposed to that sunlight—whether it be direct or ambient sunlight—as long as you're outside with no windows between you and the outdoors, that's when your brain creates melatonin.

Yeah, which makes you fall asleep when the sun goes down. So, if you're waking up... you could even be waking up when the sun rises. If you're not going outside, you're going to have trouble going to sleep at night.

Yeah, and that's why there's so many people on shift work that suffer all kinds of problems. You have more obesity on shift work—people that work nights and stuff like that.

I think triple the rate of obesity. I can't remember the study. Yeah, but I completely agree with that. If you... I've read some paper or maybe heard in a podcast.

Have you heard people talking about getting sunlight on your butthole in the morning? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They talk about... they talk about sunning their balls.

I've heard... I haven't heard the butthole one. I got to read this. Is there a paper on this? Probably.

Yeah, I know there's... I know there's people on Instagram, at least, that I've seen that talk about sunning their balls. I know that Jack talks about this too all the time on Twitter, how if you're covering up certain parts of your body when you're getting sun, it's not good.

You have to expose your full body to it. All right, but that's something we've been doing since antiquity. I mean, we haven't been walking around naked forever. We've been covering up our bodies forever.

Oh, okay. AI says there's no evidence exposing your testicles to sun or tanning them can increase testosterone levels or have any other benefits.

In fact, doing so can be harmful. Can you hear Jack's voice right now? Yeah, you know what?

Well, apparently, there's a lot of the stuff you learn in medical school—all of the textbooks that you get and you study in medical school, depending on whatever category you're in—is like 90% of it is wrong or outdated, according to Jack and according to some of the most world-renowned neurosurgeons and neuroscientists from Stanford.

They've even come out and said this—that all the textbooks and stuff that you read are really outdated or have completely false information in them.

Can we ask Grok instead of the Go? I've never used Grok. That's the XAI?

Yeah, it's good. Really? Yeah, and you can put it in fun mode.

Oh, I've heard about this. Yeah, yeah. How do you spell it? G... no, just go to x.com. G-R-O-K.

Type in scientific research on exposing testicles to sunlight. What about current ideas now? Does this... the search Twitter?

Early research from 1939 suggested exposure of the male body to ultraviolet light could significantly increase testosterone levels, specifically when the chest and back are exposed to UV.

Oh, when the chest and back are exposed to UV light. I lost where I was at.

Okay, okay, here we go. Testosterone levels reportedly increased by 120% while exposure of the genital area led to a 200% increase.

However, these studies are quite dated and have not been widely replicated under modern scientific standards.

Recent commentary and analysis—more recent discussions and analysis on the topic, particularly those found on platforms like X—often reference these historical studies but also acknowledge the lack of contemporary peer-reviewed research specifically targeting testicular exposure to sunlight.

Go to number four. Alternate explanations: some research suggests that if there is any effect from light exposure, it might be due to the stimulation of vitamin D synthesis, which can indirectly influence testosterone levels.

However... okay, yeah, see? Because number five, the interest in testicle tanning... I haven't heard of the butthole tanning one, though.

I just heard it was good to get your whole everything spread all out so everything can get some sun back there. Well, UV light doesn't really penetrate the tissue that much.

It doesn't go very deep, like red light. Red light and infrared light penetrate your body and your tissue by like four to five inches. I've heard.

Yeah, that's fascinating. Okay, so in summary, it says while there's historical basis for suggesting that UV light exposure might increase testosterone, the direct exposure of testicles to sunlight for this purpose lacks support of contemporary scientific rigorous studies.

The potential health risks, including cancer, are well documented, leading health professionals to generally advise against this practice.

Yeah, you can't go to any dermatologist and tell them that sunglasses theory that Alexis was talking about—how not wearing sunglasses in the sun can stop you from skin cancer or how... because they'll all tell you to wear sunscreen and sunglasses.

Like, that's the consensus among all dermatologists. I studied medical neuroscience, and this includes radiology, reading MRIs and brain scans, and studying Parkinson's, myasthenia gravis, you name it, Alzheimer's, dementia.

The more I learn about what truly helps the brain, I get so jaded, and I get upset that I didn't... why don't they teach that in college? Why didn't they talk about any of this?

I've heard many people say that a lot of these universities, the curriculum is developed by big pharma or some right company with a vested interest.

Especially Stanford. Stanford's a big one. It's public record. Yeah, there's an article. I'm actually going to pull it up. I have it right here on my Daylight computer.

Shout out to Daylight, man. That's the coolest invention ever. Hold on, let me find it. I want to give this guy credit because I just got done reading his article. His name is Nafiz Ahmed, and he wrote this whole huge two-part piece on how Google was incubated and funded by the CIA and NSA and DARPA.

How the PageRank algorithm and all of the proprietary IP that's used in Google was developed first in DARPA, and then there were these two people that are listed in that article from the CIA and NSA who were visiting Sergey Brin many times when he was developing it and testing it, and they were funding it quite literally.

So, the implications of the whole thing... basically read the article. I highly recommend it. It's on Medium. It's on his Medium page.

So, you're saying the alphabet agencies... Google became the alphabet company called the Alphabet Company?

Yeah, Alphabet. So, Google was incubated, curated, and funded by the CIA and NSA, and it was technology from DARPA that they used.

So, when you think of the Twitter files and how Twitter was co-opted by—or not co-opted, but infiltrated by the FBI and CIA trying to manage the disinformation going on, well, Google is a whole other animal because Google was literally a product of those agencies, and this is proven.

Yeah, this is his article right here: "How the CIA Made Google: Inside the Secret Network." Good God, fascinating.

Fascinating deep dive this guy did. And you know, there are all these think tanks that you've never heard of that are these consensus think tanks where all these people in these agencies just try to figure out how to weaponize the internet for manipulation on a global scale.

Yeah, for the most part. I've been involved with many different operations and stuff going on back in the day. Most people that are involved in those things, like putting the Google algorithm together and all that, most of those people genuinely in their heart of hearts believe that they're doing something good for the country.

I really believe that. I've met these people when they first started, were naive enough, which I would be—most of us would be. We don't know what's going to happen way down at the end of this pipeline, right?

So, we're putting this stuff together, and you genuinely feel like a patriot at the time. Then it's embarrassing, so nobody really speaks up at the end like, "I was a big part of that. I put that together."

So, I think that we're assigning... I think a lot of people assign malice to people that had none. And I think, sure, there was malice maybe in some of it, but I think the overall thing was like information is going to be crazy, and we need... this is going to be a war of information.

This is going to be a war of ideas, and we need to make sure we get the right ones into the hands of the American people so that they're well-informed and they know the right things that are going on.

So, the American people won't be manipulated. I think that was probably... so many programs start out that way of like, "We need to protect people first."

Like the Patriot Act, it was like, "Oh yeah, we need to protect you," right? But let's label it this thing that sounds innocent.

Yeah, the Patriot Act, right? Just mass surveillance on humans. Yeah, no, I think you're right about that.

I mean, these are huge organizations with lots of people working in them, and they're not all... like it's the banality of evil, right? Like the people that are working—like exactly what you said.

There are bad people with bad intentions in those organizations, yeah. Are there bad people with bad intentions in those organizations? Yeah.

But, like, at the end of the day, it's just humans with animalistic intentions and the same sort of values and fears that drive all of us. When you get that level of power and that much money, it's the same thing that would happen to you or me probably.

Like, you want to protect yourself, protect your tribe, you want to take care of your kids, make more and more... another billion, right?

Let me just get one more billion in there. Yeah, I'm going to unplug as soon as I get this next billion out.

Yeah, and you're going to die eventually, right? And you don't have to deal with any of this anymore. You're just going to protect your family and protect your tribe, and then whatever happens after that...

These people aren't necessarily philosophical thought leaders in human history, or they may not understand all of human history and how this stuff can affect people a hundred years down the road.

Yeah, it's like capitalism gone off the rails. There's an old quote of... I'm paraphrasing this, but the only way for a society to thrive is when men plant trees whose shade they will never enjoy.

So, that's good. All just future-focused on the life of the next generation instead of our own.

And that's the same when I teach people how to have discipline in their life. It's the exact same thing as a country. My present tense self places more priority over what me in the future than me right now.

If I only prioritize right now, I'm going to stay up late, I'm going to drink too much, I'm going to miss that exam in the morning, I'm going to do all... I'm going to eat too much cheesecake, fill in the blank, I'm going to do drugs.

If my priority is my future self ahead of my present self, I will always be looking backwards with gratitude instead of regret.

So, my past tense self will always be someone I'm grateful for, not regretful of. And I think that's the goal in our life. That's the goal for a nation.

There's no difference. Do I have the ability to forego enjoying something now so that future me or maybe future generations will be able to enjoy it? I think that’s it.

Yeah, I think you're right about that. I think that definitely gets lost. That gets lost. You know, there's this saying that money is like a magnifying glass; it makes you more of who you really are.

Yeah, like the more money you have, it just magnifies your deepest motivations, your deepest drives that make you into who you are. And I think that's what's happening.

I think that's what's happening with the people that are in charge, whether it be politicians or CEOs of huge companies. And it doesn't necessarily... being a good person doesn't make you the head of one of these big companies or the head or climb to be able to climb the ladder of one of these big agencies inside the United States.

Like, I've had people in here that explain some of the folks—some of like the... Andy, yeah, Andy's explained.

Yeah, I just had him in here with this guy, John Kyaku, and they were talking about some of the people that have made it to the highest ranks inside the CIA.

He's saying these people aren't... these people are like yes men. What they do is they'll do whatever it takes to please the person above them so they can essentially climb the ladder.

Yeah, it's a chameleon effect. And I think there's... I've studied psychopathy for a very long time, and I think a lot of those positions to get to the top, there's a degree of psychopathy that you need to get up there.

In today's world, you've got to be... and I think maybe that's the reason we're looking at what we're looking at. Like all psychopathy starts with separation—all of it. Everything.

So, if you just think of ego, me having an ego means I'm separate from Danny, right? Me having less of that is like we're similar. Me having way less of that is like we're one; we're like the same thing.

But if you take ego way to the top, that's where you get psychopathy. You have psychopath behavior there. It's just centralized; everything is different from me.

Those people will memorize like a library card catalog human emotions and facial expressions and words and phrases and everything that they will ever need to survive in the world and to rise up to the top of leadership.

Everybody talks about psychopaths as if they're bad people. I don't think they are, and none of them chose to be that way. Most psychopaths don't even know that they're psychopaths; they just think we're all the same.

They think we do what they do, right? I think they just recruit a lot of this. One of the best illustrations of this is Dr. Robert Hare, who's the number one researcher on psychopathy.

He's the guy who developed the checklist—the famous psychopath checklist—to diagnose a psychopath. He said if you could just imagine yourself in your apartment, you're wanting to go get something to eat.

You say, "I'm going to walk down there to the fried chicken place." I'm going to go get some fried chicken. So, you exit your apartment, you walk down the sidewalk, and within 100 yards, you see some police lights, and there's a crash scene.

There's a horrible, horrible scene there. Let's say you see a mom holding her little daughter who's passed away and bleeding, and the mom is crying and screaming and all of this.

The first thought in your head while you're looking at the scene is fried chicken. I'm going to get that fried chicken. Then turning right to the restaurant and go pick up your food, getting back to the apartment, eating your chicken, and then after you brush your teeth that night, you're looking at yourself in the mirror, trying to mimic all of those faces that you saw on the street from all the grief and sadness and despair.

You're just staring at yourself doing that in the mirror to practice those facial expressions. That's a psychopath.

What are the conditions of... does that develop in early childhood? Does that go back to... is that all about those first years and when you're a toddler and how you're raised and what you're exposed to? Does that start then, or can that start later?

It can start later. There's a genetic and an environmental predisposition that you can have for it. So, you can have a genetic predisposition, which means your amygdala is a little bit bigger than it should be, a few other things going on in your brain.

But then you have all of those genetic factors, and you have a great childhood, and you don't grow up to be a psychopath. Those genes decide not to express themselves.

So, then you have somebody else who gets to a traumatic event. Maybe they have... this can even go back to some cases they've shown the mother getting sick during the third trimester expressed those genes.

So, I think it's a bunch of theories right now, as far as I know. I'm no expert, right? But having those genes expressed means that you're born, and the next thing you know, like my kid is shoving needles into our cat or our dog just to see the dog's reaction and stuff like that.

Jesus. So, you see that at a pretty young age, and there's no way out. There's no counseling, there's no therapy, there's no psychedelic journey that you can go on and reverse some of that stuff.

Interesting. And it's pretty similar. Narcissism is maybe... I don't think it's on that spectrum, but narcissism is like high ego, right? It's a high ego problem, but it's rooted in more insecurity.

I have seen narcissism... if you go to therapy, if you have narcissistic personality disorder, a diagnostic disorder, and you go to therapy, they're essentially teaching you how to fake stuff.

Here's how to ask people questions about themselves: "Danny, how are you doing? How's your wife? How's the family going?" And here's how to be open and vulnerable. Here's how to be a good person.

That's just masking. They're not helping themselves; they're not really changing. I have seen psychedelics do some amazing stuff with narcissism, with people kind of stepping out of their ego.

It was a huge deal for me the first time I did it. I felt like I lost 40 pounds of ego the first time that I did psychedelics. I think maybe a bunch of deployment stuff kind of fell off with that, but it's a great thing to see.

I don't remember where I was going with that—psychopathy and you're saying psychedelics can't fix it.

Yeah, at the end of the day, there's not a whole lot you can do. Have people tried to experiment with psychedelics on people that have severe psychopathy or psychopaths?

I can't cite any research or anything like that. I guess that would be interesting to see, to get what their reaction would be and to hear them talk about it or put them on like a crazy DMT trip.

You know, IA or I... right, right, right, right? Yeah, because IA has more of an effect because it takes forever.

Yeah, like 12 hours. Yeah, I've never done ayahuasca. The first time I did DMT was with Danny Goler when he was on the show. Shout out to Danny for hooking us up.

Yeah, I was terrified. I was terrified because I've heard so many stories. Did he have to kind of like hold your hand and say, "It's okay, it's okay, you're..."?

Oh yeah, he was great. He walked me through it, like held my hand and walked me through it like I was a child, explaining to me what to expect.

We did this Wim Hof breathing thing before it. I don't know what that did. Did you do it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We did the... I love that. I love doing that. I think, man, there's something... I think the more certain somebody is that they've got life figured out and what we're doing here on this planet, the more skeptical I am of their opinions.

I don't think we have jack [expletive] figured out, man. I don't think we know what this is.

This lady was talking to Stephen Hawking one time, and this is on recording, but he said, "Well, what happens if you get to the end of the universe?" She said, "Well, that's their end."

He said, "Okay, so you reached the end. What's on the other side of that? What's outside of that wall?" They're like, "We have no clue what any of this stuff is."

I think that's okay just for us to say we don't know yet. I think that we need more scientists that can utter the phrase, "As far as we know now."

Just that one phrase. You don't have to call yourself a dummy; you just have to say we don't have everything figured out. Every generation thinks they've got it all figured out and laughs at the generation before them, and every generation will get laughed at.

Yeah, so we're going to have stuff that we believe in right now that in a couple of hundred years will be the equivalent of the Earth is flat or we're at the center of the entire universe and everything revolves around us.

Yeah, we'll be laughed at, and we just got to be okay with that. Just as far as we know right now, just that one phrase. I wish we would hear more often.

Yeah, I think that's why I thought that when I first saw Danny's video that he made for his documentary about that DMT laser thing, I was just [expletive] blown away.

Me too! Yeah, so I saw it on... someone ripped it off of TikTok and then stuck it on X, and I saw it on X.

I'm a behavior profiler, so I'm watching the video reactions of the people that are seeing the stuff. Then I'm watching Danny's behavior. I was so intrigued about what was going on.

I tracked Danny's ass down within five minutes, ten minutes, called him and said, "Hey dude, I'm going to fly you to my house. I need you to tell me all about this. I want to know everything that you know."

It's just fascinating to me. What were you looking for? Like when you were watching the videos of him talking about it, because you're obviously trying to sniff out [expletive], right?

So, what specifically are you paying attention to when you watch those videos and listen to people talking? The first thing would be performance. Am I seeing performative behavior?

Someone over-exaggerating a reaction to what they're seeing on the wall? Someone zooming in the camera a little bit too much and not trying to get an authentic shot of what's going on?

Any kind of over-exaggeration and them trying to over-explain it to the camera what they're seeing? No one tried to explain it; they were just awestruck.

They didn't try to say, "Oh, here's exactly what I'm seeing" right away. They had that pause of awe, just being in awe for a few seconds.

That’s what did it for me. And then the humility of Danny's just a super humble good dude.

Yeah, but that comes through. That's why a lot of you don't have to be a profiler for that. You get a gut feeling.

When we get those gut feelings about people, those gut feelings are produced by who that person is when we're not looking. Gut feelings are not produced by behavior in the moment; it's produced by their behavior in the moment being incongruent with who they are off-camera or when nobody's looking.

Right? That's what they call the gut, like a brain, right? Yeah, yeah.

What do you think's going on there in that laser? You think it's ripping a hole in the Matrix? You got any ideas? You got any theories?

No idea what your gut tells you. Well, the gut says that we're seeing something that our bodies were not meant to or not designed to.

Like, we didn't evolve to see it. Would it just be like if you did DMT and then found out that you could squeeze your ear really hard and you could see the infrared light spectrum?

You know, it would be a weird... you'd be like, "Oh [expletive], I can see heat now. I can see like a snake."

Maybe we're seeing something that maybe an animal or somebody else has access to already. Maybe it's just another thing that we just don't know about yet.

And it's always been there. Yeah, so what I saw when I looked into it was I saw like... you know how you could see like the speckles?

If you look really close to that laser, you could see all the little speckles because it was projected on a white door when I was looking at it.

I could see like... and he was kind of like guiding me, showing me, telling me how to see it, and I was looking at it and relaxing my focus, and I was seeing like a pocket of space behind the door.

Yeah, and it was a very palpable pocket of space that was behind the door, like I could almost reach through it and feel it, like I was seeing through the door.

Yeah, and then I was looking at all the little moving speckles of light, and then I focused in on those more and tried to look through those more, and then they turned into like gears—all connected to each other.

I saw the gears too, like millions of gears just connected and turning. I didn't see any of the code stuff, but then again, I was kind of like... this was kind of like three or four minutes after I did the DMT, so I wasn't like in the peak of the experience.

It was kind of more of like the downward, the downslope of the come down of it or whatever you call it. So, I don't know if that had anything to do with it or whatever or if it just takes different people to see different things.

But I would love to see some sort of wide-ranging study, like a placebo-controlled experiment on this, if there could be some money that could get behind it somehow.

Yeah, I'd rather see 10,000 people experience it than some study at a university. I'd rather have a huge movement.

Is that what would fund the study by itself? Just so many people. And there's... I think there's like a subreddit on it as well.

But what I'd like to see is what would happen if I have like ski goggles, all right? Just humor me for a second.

This is what I was thinking like after I did it the first time. So, what if I had ski goggles that had like white, like almost like a wax paper surface to them?

So, like a translucent but not transparent, you know? So, the outside of the ski goggles would look like the back of my iPhone, right?

And somehow project a laser onto that entire surface from outside. So, you're looking at this... so it's like diffusing it?

Yeah, so it's diffusing laser light, but you can kind of move your head and look. So, now you're physically able to move where you're looking, right?

So, you'd need some kind of little head apparatus to like shine it down, right, and diffuse it onto your face.

Danny said that green and blue lasers have different code. Really?

Yeah, you see different types of code, and everybody sees the same different type of code, huh? Which I thought was fascinating.

Yeah, that's bizarre, man. It's just like I can't get through... I can't figure out with this DMT stuff if it's like... is this just like the inner parts of the brain just opening up and showing you things that you don't normally see?

You know that whole brain filter hypothesis? How like there's so much more in this space that we're in that we can't perceive because our brain just filters everything down for us to be able to survive and get through the day and eat and stuff like that?

But if you take this DMT or psychedelic or whatever it is, it strips away this barrier, and now you're exposed to more of what's already really there.

Yeah, so, all right, I'll go deep really quick on this one. If observing something collapses wave function, and our ability to see and interpret things is expanded by DMT, then are we seeing something that is there but is also...

I'm a huge... I'm obsessed with Carl Jung, all of his work. Are we seeing some kind of collective code that we are all kind of co-creating?

Are we all collapsing that? So then the one time that I have done DMT, I somehow was shown this map of the world of gravity.

Like if you could map... like you know how Verizon has that coverage map, right? But what if you could map where the gravity centers are in the inside of... like I could see all the Smoky Mountains up in the Northeast.

I could see all the Rocky Mountains down in the southwestern area, and they were empty because no one was observing the inside of the mountains, and the gravity was concentrated in the cities where people were collapsing wave function.

I saw that on DMT. Not saying that there's some science behind it, but I just thought that was unbelievable.

And you were looking at some sort of map? Like a map of this country where you could see like New York, LA, Houston, Chicago, where all this gravity was centered right around those areas?

Yeah, wow. So, ever since that day, I always thought in terms of like maybe this is some kind of wave function form of collapsing of a wave function, right?

Yeah, like is that parking lot really out there right now? Well, that is for the Uber drivers.

And that, yeah, but if no one was observing it, would it be there? Right? That's wild to think about, man.

So, how long did it take you to write this book? It's been... it's probably five years.

Five years? Yeah, and you were saying that the epileptic episodes were what inspired it?

Yeah, it started on setting, and I'm just worried that I'm going to go downhill, and I need to dump everything that's inside of my brain that I teach to Intel people, to companies, everything all in one book.

And was the act of writing therapeutic for it at all? Did that help you, or was that just sort of a drive from this health scare that you were having?

I think it was a drive from the health scare. It was therapeutic knowing that if I can get this done, then I have a parachute for my kids.

And the third part, I think, is also hypergraphia—just that side effect of temporal lobe epilepsy, just an impulsive need to write and continue writing.

I would fill like one of these up every two months, just nonstop.

So, I wrote my first... so you were writing with like a pen and paper, not typing?

Yeah, interesting. So, I wrote this on paper first with like a pencil—not word for word, but yeah, most of the book.

It took three or four of those things. What do you call them?

And was there anything... so going back to the epilepsy stuff, was there anything other than the methylene blue that helped you?

Yeah, just going on one journey, like a mushroom journey, like a 4.5, 5G journey that was significant to kind of start kicking everything off.

Then taking a daily turkey tail, then I mix in beetroot, and then very high-dose melatonin—super high-dose melatonin.

Yeah, high-dose melatonin is one of the most powerful antioxidants in the world, and it's made in your brain. Most people are like, "Well, if I take a lot of it, my body's not going to produce it."

Your body... there's no rebound effect whatsoever. But the thing is that your liver will destroy 80 to 90% of melatonin when you take it orally.

So, what you usually take from like Walgreens or CVS is like a 2 milligram, maybe a 4 milligram. I take 200.

At sunset? Suppository?

Suppository, yeah. I'll show you how to put it in there.

Wow, that's dedication. Yeah, so it bypasses the liver.

So, that's called the first-pass effect. So, when our liver... all the processes in our liver just destroy that melatonin.

So, when you take melatonin through a suppository, you're absorbing like 90% instead of destroying 90%.

And it's also radioprotective. It can protect your body from radiation damage.

Really? Yeah, so like going on an airplane, you'll take it before an airplane ride?

Yeah, take it before an airplane ride. I won't say that this is some... maybe it's proven in some study, but I went to Jamaica, and we go to Jamaica two or three times a year.

Really? Yeah, so I will take melatonin, and I never... and I burn easily. I'm just like a basic white dude.

I will burn pretty easily in the sun. I'll take melatonin, and I will not need sunscreen. It's unbelievable.

Wow. Yeah, I heard that they have a lot of big psychedelic mushroom farms down there.

Yeah, they're totally legal. A lot of the folks that are farming it and processing it down there are companies here that are getting it all done down there to get through the legal loopholes, from what I understand.

Yeah, and there's a pretty booming market down there, but there's also a ton of... I heard there's like a ton of crime down there as well.

And that's only if you're in the Kingston area, right? Like if you're in Kingston or any of the big cities, there's some, but it's not that bad.

Right? I stay up in the very top of the island in the middle part, which is called Ocho Rios.

And it's unbelievable, man. Great, great spot. In Western society, we compete with each other just as a standard default.

Let's compete on status and wealth and popularity and all of that stuff, right? And it's almost like a national culture for the Jamaican people just to kind of compete on gratitude.

And it's not something like they teach in school; it's just how it is. And it is... I've never been to... I've been to a bunch of countries. I've been all over the world.

I have never been to a place where there's so little ego and so much enjoyment.

Yeah, wow. Just the most incredible human beings on Earth. What is it about Jamaica that makes it like that?

I don't know. I think it's the people and the culture, just how they are, how they grew up. The native Jamaicans were more like Mayan; they had more of a Mayan appearance.

Columbus and his crew murdered like 99% of them, right? Yeah, it's a sad story, but Jamaica is like epigenetic trauma.

Yeah, but man, it's those people. It's so hard to explain. The first time I got to Jamaica, here's an example.

We were walking out in the main part of the town, and there's a homeless guy walking past us. We're about to pass this guy that's very obviously either homeless or very close to being homeless.

As he's approaching us, I'm instantly... this Western brain of mine is like, "He's going to ask for money. I've got to say, 'Oh, you know, sorry, I don't have cash.'"

All he said was, "Is this your first time?" And we're like, "Yeah, it's our first time in Jamaica."

He's like, "I hope it's the best time ever," and he just kept on walking. Really?

Yeah, didn't wait. And like, as a Western person, I cannot process why would he stop? How does it benefit him?

That's what was in my head, like that's how we think in our society. Would someone do something that doesn't benefit themselves?

Yeah, and that culture is not wired that way. So, I'll give you the second time we went. We went to the same hotel, and the guy at the front of the hotel, his name's Kirk.

He grabbed our bags. He tells me and my wife, "Hey, Chase, hey, Michelle." Then the person at the front desk, "Hey, Chase, hey, Michelle."

The person upstairs, the maid walking down the hallway said, "Hey, Chase, hey, Michelle."

Put people that I don't remember even talking to. So, I asked later on. I asked one of the managers, "Whatever CRM you guys have to get the employees to memorize people's names is unbelievable."

And she said, "We don't do that. They actually remember your name."

It's because that's my Western brain thinking, "Why would it benefit them?" But they just genuinely care, and I can't... it's so hard for our culture to process that.

Man, it's a magical place.

Again, we don't depend on our tribe anymore. If we stop depending on the tribe, we lose empathy, and then you have things like the bystander effect. Yeah, people just step over a murder victim, which has happened before. It's a fusion of responsibility.

There's a great video about this where they did a study at Liverpool Street Station in London. A woman laid on the ground, and people were stepping over her. She was holding her stomach, begging for help—not just kind of laying there; she was openly calling out for help and crying out in pain. And people were just stepping over her.

Really? When was this done?

I don't know. Philip Zimbardo, the guy who ran the Stanford Prison Experiment, he has a new thing on YouTube.

Oh, it's not new—the Stanford Prison Experiment?

Yeah, I haven't heard of that.

Oh my gosh, let's not do that. Am I living under a rock?

Yeah, leave that door shut.

Don't tell me to leave it shut! Now I want to crack it open.

So, Dr. Zimbardo did this experiment where essentially he got 100 college students and made a fake prison inside of an academic building. He said, "50 are prisoners, 50 are guards." No rules—prisoners, go get in your cell. And then, like, boom, just let it go.

It talked about how fast authority—even if it's fake authority—can start corrupting and lead to abuse of power. So, everybody got pissed off that Dr. Zimbardo did that experiment. He started a YouTube channel called the Heroic Imagination Project, and man, is it good! It talks about all these experiments but then how you can avoid falling into those traps.

How can you get out of getting your head in the bystander effect?

But just looking at the bystander effect, it's a funny phenomenon. If I explain to you, let's say I walked in here this morning, and it was the first time we met each other. I said, "Dan, you wouldn't believe what was outside of my hotel. People were filming a woman getting stabbed. A guy was standing there filming a woman getting stabbed to death." You would think that person was a psychopath. That is the behavior of a psychopath, but it's the collective behavior of everyone in large cities.

Oh wow.

So, Dr. Robert Hare, who we talked about before, said psychopaths are attracted to large cities. I think large cities are factories for psychopathy.

Whoa.

All of the behaviors that we talk about with crowd psychology and how crowds behave and how they don't help each other—it's all psychopathic behavior. But it's universal because it's in a large city, and everybody does it. It's not a big deal; it's psychopathy, but it's temporary.

So, I lived in a semi-large city in Chesapeake, Virginia, and I moved to a town where the population is 2,000.

That's nice.

Yeah, the population of this town is like 2 million.

That's crazy.

But like, combine that with just all the information that we're bombarded with every day. You know what I mean? There's just so much—an overwhelming amount of information to the point where it's almost worse than having... it's almost better to have less information than it is to have more information.

And people are obsessed with just getting as much information as possible every single day.

Yeah, and you know, it's like—which is a huge thing that comes up in this podcast, as you are well aware—when we try to Google something, it's hard to find the truth about anything. You know, depending on where you're looking or who's giving you that information or what their sources are.

So, I wonder how that is going to affect people today and how it's going to affect people in the future. Or how it even affects the human brain when it's like... you know, and we know that for the most part, we're getting information that's tainted or skewed in one direction or another. We're well aware of it.

Yeah, and I'd say worrying about the future is just us right now making those choices. Maybe just a hundred of us right now listening, or 10,000 people that are listening right now, is that I'm going to prioritize my kids getting in nature, getting away from that blue light, and doing everything that Jack was talking about.

Just getting my kids to a place where I'm going to sacrifice for them. I'm going to move out of the city, or I'm going to get to a place where I don't need a lot of information.

You know what the front page of the newspaper of the town I live in was just a week ago? It showed a stolen bike. Front page news—a bicycle was stolen.

And that's... that's me seeing that as bad news was beautiful! I want to just wake up to that as the news that I get—what's going on around my community that I need.

Our brains were not designed to handle over maybe 300 or 400 people, right? It's just not. That's why empathy disappears. That's why psychopathy starts coming in. We can't have empathy for that many people. We just can't. It's not possible.

Yeah, speaking of overwhelming amounts of information coming in, I know you talked about it in that video you sent me, but what are your thoughts on those New Jersey drones? What are the possibilities for it? Do you think there is some sort of modern strategic deception, or do you think it could be some sort of limited hangout that's still happening across the media to get people to divert their attention somewhere else?

To distract them?

So, for any weird thing that happens, I ask myself three, maybe four questions.

Number one: Is it happening in proximity to a large political event, like an election or an inauguration?

Number two: Am I seeing it repeated on multiple news cycles where people are using similar phrases? It's like if I spot similar phrases, I'm seeing a setup. If I'm seeing copy-paste along seven different networks and they're all kind of saying the same thing, I'm seeing something that might be a setup.

The next would be if I'm not seeing the government intervene in what's going on and they're remaining semi-silent.

They put out a statement today. I don't know if you saw that.

Really?

Some kind of statement, and it was just the most meaningless blather. It was like just a couple of paragraphs.

Who put it out?

I don't remember.

Okay, you probably just type in "government statement drones," and it'll come up.

But if you're seeing it's close to a political event, it's being repeated, and then the final way to tell if something is a setup is that stories evolve over time. If you never hear anything about it, if something is a setup, it tends to go away after it has served its purpose.

So, you're not going to hear anything about the drone if it's a setup. You're not going to keep hearing about it if it's serving its purpose because when setups are in play, they're in play, and then they're out. Then they're done with the news cycle because someone's influencing the news cycle to serve a purpose, and it no longer serves the purpose.

So now I go back to talking about whatever—right? Something else.

So, you see something disappear from the news cycle? Just rewind and look at what the event was that was hiding underneath it.

This is ABC: "Having closely examined the technical data and tips from concerned citizens, we assess that the sightings of drones included a combination of lawful commercial drones, hobbyist drones, law enforcement drones, as well as manned fixed-wing aircraft, helicopters, and stars mistakenly reported as drones."

The joint statement said...

Whose joint statement is this?

Click on the joint statement link.

Like, [ __ ]! The Homeland Security, DHS, FBI, FAA, and do a joint statement December 16th—yesterday.

Wow, it's nothing.

Wow, it's the whole thing says nothing.

That's insane.

Well, to give them credit, if they are looking for what some people think to be some sort of rogue nuclear weapon, you don't want to let the people know that. It's going to sow complete chaos in society.

U.S. NRC.

Okay, what is this website?

U.S. NRC—Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

Okay, event notification report for December 13, 2024. Three days ago, four days ago.

U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Operation Center.

All right, what are we looking at here?

What is this?

So, a nuke or a piece of nuclear material went missing.

So, even if, like, a dentist's office gets robbed and they get an x-ray machine stolen, that machine most likely runs off of something called cobalt, which is a radioactive element.

Okay, and that has to get reported. It's a big deal.

Oh, really?

Yeah, so there are... even if you ordered, let's say you ordered 30 elevator counterweights.

Go up, Steve.

So, have you ever been in an elevator and you see the giant stack of lead weights that kind of go up and down to counterweight the elevator?

Right.

If you order a bunch of those, you'll be on an FBI watch list because you can shield these things and hide these things using big thick pieces of lead.

And the cheapest and most effective way to do that is using elevator counterweights.

So, you can buy them at a junkyard, and a lot of times if you go to a place that makes granite countertops or anything like that, granite can set off a large concentration of lots of granite.

Like a truck full of granite can also hide it because granite gives off radioactive isotopes all the time that are harmless, but it can give off the same kind of signature radioactive isotope.

So, I'm not an expert in any of those.

So, you're saying the lead of those elevator weights can shield radiation?

Can shield it from being detected?

Yeah.

Okay, okay.

So, this is saying that the NASA Cancer Center is the licensee of... okay, whatever that means.

Newfield, New Jersey license number. Emergency class is non-emergency. Organization GL Dental—Glenn Dental is this guy's name, I guess, or that's the organization maybe?

Was it... oh, that says Dentel.

Oh, Dentel.

Okay, okay.

Keep going.

Event text agreement state report source lost in transit. The following information was provided in the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection via email.

The licensee reported to NJDEP on December 3, 2024, that the G68 pin source that they sent for disposal has been lost in transit on December 2.

What is that?

The G68 pin source?

Let's Google that.

Yeah, copy and paste that into Google.

Maybe G-R-O-G68?

Maybe not Google.

Yeah, maybe not Google.

Yeah, copy that and put it in the...

It's a specialized radioactive calibration tool used in medical imaging, particularly...

Oh, that's what that was!

Okay, so this is the model right here.

Because whenever I Googled that...

Oh, it was sent for disposal.

Go back to the report.

That's okay.

It was sent for disposal and it has been lost in transit on December 2, 2024.

The source is EERT Ziggler model H132, which has a current approximate activity of 0.267 MCI.

The shipping container arrived at its destination damaged and empty.

The licensee has filed claims with the shipper.

If the source is not located within 30 days of the licensee, they will follow up with a full written report to include the root causes and corrective actions.

Interesting.

What does this say?

Event contains the material. Event contains a less than cat 3 level of radioactive material.

That one up cat 3 level is not safely managed or secured or protected.

Could cause permanent injury to a person who handled it or otherwise contains...

Huh.

So that was December 3rd. Is there a more recent...?

If you go to the top, it says incident numbers, and they're in blue or event numbers.

This is 57455. There's 57456 that happened afterward.

You want to go to this one?

The first one?

No, we're on 55 right now.

You want... how about 7? Most recent one?

I don't know.

Sure, you got the steering wheel all the way at the bottom.

Okay, so invalid actuation of containment isolation valves.

Probably not it.

Interesting.

So this is saying some sort of medical cat scanner device or something like that went missing off of a shipping container that was damaged?

They shot one down—NYPD did last night.

Really?

Yeah, if you go on Twitter right now and type in "drone shot down NYPD," this drone was shot down recently in New Jersey.

Apparently, now there's a picture of the NYPD holding it with the black beanies on and stuff.

Yeah, they're shooting them down.

Whoa!

Keep going. See if you can find a cool picture.

For like eight bucks, if you have a 12-gauge, I think for eight or nine, you can get a box of shells that have a net that's designed to shoot down drones.

Really?

And it captures them?

Yeah, captures them.

No way!

Super cheap.

Go to Media. Click on media.

No photos?

Wait, take off NJ just... drone shot down NYPD.

There it is!

Which on the left, far left, right there.

That one!

Whoa! Holy smokes!

Yeah, yo, can you interview James?

Me, man. Ask him what happened.

So did you get a contact with the C?

AKA is... Yo, Jam, how you...

So AM Incorporated is funded by BlackRock?

Really?

Stephen, will you look that up?

What is Energy Inc?

Oh yeah, introducing ammonia as energy.

Okay, so now go back to Grok and just type in...

Amo G BlackRock AM Inc and BlackRock's relationship investment partnership.

Oh, BlackRock has indeed invested in AMJ Inc.

This relationship was highlighted in various posts on X through the news article.

Okay, but what does that mean that BlackRock invested in AMOG?

It's just BlackRock's like in the middle of everything that's going on.

Yeah, I mean, they invest in so much [ __ ].

Even the kid who shot Trump, yeah, there was in a BlackRock commercial, right?

How crazy is that?

It's like... now is that like one of those things we're talking about? Is that like strategic deception? You know, is that like the monkey mask in the cockpit having him in a BlackRock commercial?

I don't know. It just seems like this was made for TV. Everything that's happened in the last five years is just straight out of...

What did Joe Rogan say? He said, "This season of America is the wildest."

It's the wildest one yet.

Too many... there's too many answers to this.

It's almost like they want us chasing our tails.

Overload.

Yes, it is overload.

I don't know. You pulled this one up. I don't even know who Benny Hinn is.

Oh my god!

Oh, he's the... wait, really quick.

So Benny Hinn is an evangelical pastor. He is world-renowned for healing and using the spirit of God to heal people and all that stuff.

And these people are all falling over.

Oh my God, this is hilarious!

Take a fresh breath of the spirit!

Let me start by saying this: there is a chance, and maybe a good possibility, he believes that what he's doing is the Lord's work—that he's not deliberately using hypnosis and all that kind of stuff.

There's a chance because you hear him say, "I don't know how this all works. I don't know what's going on."

Right?

So maybe that's true, and I'll just go off that assumption.

Mhm.

I'll just... we'll assume the best, okay, about him.

So when a stage hypnosis show starts—and we're talking like, have you ever been to one?

No.

Like a comedy hypnosis?

No.

They are... you need to go if you ever have a chance. They're worth it.

Okay, is this guy still in business?

I don't know. I have to go to one of his... if he still around.

One of his... no, I mean a hypnosis show. An actual hypnosis.

Oh, this is a comedy club?

Oh, oh no, no, no.

So in a comedy club or a mass group hypnosis show where you would demonstrate hypnosis, one of the first things you do is kind of get the crowd riled up.

But the second thing you do is demonize the people who are not going to go into trance.

Demonize those people.

And so I got a good friend of mine, Rich Guzzi. He's a stage hypnotist, comedian, hilarious dude.

He starts off his act by saying, "You might be one of these people, but there's always one [ __ ]—there's always one [ __ ] who won't go along with it."

There's always going to be one of those people.

You might be that person.

If you're looking around the table, you don't see one of them, you maybe you're that person.

So it's always... you want people to disidentify.

So remember, it's talking about identity—who am I?

So there's always going to be one of those people.

And so what we're going to be doing is something that's good for you. It's something that's fun.

No photography is going to be allowed.

So just automatically addressing all the concerns very covertly but without anybody asking any questions.

Yeah.

And then some people are worried about this.

So here, let me tell you what hypnosis is. It's not a coma. It's not sleep. You're not going to be deaf. You'll hear my voice the entire time.

You're going to remain in complete control.

You're going to be doing this voluntarily—absolutely voluntarily.

And it's going to feel absolutely fantastic.

And 15 minutes of hypnosis is like a three-hour nap.

It's equal to a three-hour nap.

I made all those statistics up, but it would sound something like that, right?

So, and this crowd is primed as tribal hypnosis.

And you'll see people do this to convince people of facts.

Like if you watch the John Oliver show, for example, it'll be a rapid fact that they want you to believe followed by immediate laughter.

So you're not really criticizing it. You're hearing a lot of other people laughing, so your brain focuses on tribe and says, "Okay, lots of people are laughing. It must be true."

Bam!

And they'll throw a joke in there before you can critically analyze any of the information.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

And that's every episode—many different shows, not just John.

So what's happening is... so hypnosis is a mixture of suggestibility, focus, and dissociation—just those three things.

So what creates the suggestibility is expectancy.

Remember we talked about that? That was one of the things on the six things that influence human beings.

Mhm.

So expectancy means I know what's going to happen when I walk up on the stage.

I know what's going to happen when he waves his coat.

If you do a blind placebo study, right, where he goes up to a bunch of strangers at a Yankees game and waves his coat, they're all going to be like, "What is this guy doing?"

Because there's no expectancy that happens there.

But these people know what's going to happen, right?

So if I'm going to... let's say one thing that people think is really cool that I can do—I can take somebody in a... like in the middle of a bar or restaurant and just drop them on the ground like that, and they'll just lay there 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes just like they're unconscious.

But one of the ways I do it is building a lot of expectancy and compliance.

Expectancy and compliance.

So let's say I'm doing that.

Let me show you how this works in a bar, and then I want you to make the correlations yourself.

Okay, so let's say... have you ever been hypnotized before?

No.

Okay, well, it's actually a fun experience, and there's different ways that some people can go deeply into hypnosis. Some people can't.

If you have an IQ below 90, you can't be hypnotized.

It's been proven.

Explains why I haven't been hypnotized.

I made that up.

Okay, but do you see what I'm starting to do?

I'm starting to go down the... remember I told you one of the needs is intelligence?

Mhm.

And so we call the ability to be hypnotized unconscious power and some people have low power, some people have high power.

So now I'm addressing strength and power needs, right?

So some people have a better connection with their unconscious mind.

You see high-performing athletes, high-performing CEOs—they have that perfect connection with their unconscious mind.

They're the easiest people to hypnotize.

Now I just hit significance on that needs map.

So every way that you could view yourself as needing something from another person, I've just hit them all.

So actually, you know what? Stand right here.

And then, like, so I'll have somebody stand up.

Stand right here.

So I've just given them an order. I didn't ask, and they complied.

I'd say, "All right, come a little closer to me."

Next order—compliance.

"All right, now spread your feet just a little bit further apart."

"All right, great. A little bit closer together."

"Great, now put your hands out."

"All right, great. Now look at me."

"Great, now close your eyes just really quick. I just want to test one thing."

And I'm just going to do like five or six things.

All these things I'm doing are meaningless.

They've given in to your will, right?

So now we haven't even started the process.

I've got you just to comply with orders on command.

So now I'm going to start the hypnosis process.

I'm going to be like, "All right, so go ahead and start taking a deep breath into your abdomen."

And I follow my finger.

I'm going to do this kind of little finger thing like this.

I'm going to... what's called the upside-down T.

It's probably the best thing to knock somebody out in public where I'm just kind of... if you follow my finger, I'm not going to do it to you, but you're going to go this way, this way, back to the center, and then all the way up.

So anytime you get those eyes to roll to the center of the forehead, you can feel like if you try to look right here, like there's a reflex of almost kind of sending you back, making you kind of go into hypnosis a tiny bit.

So then I'm doing all this stuff, and I'm gaining all this compliance.

And I say, "All right, remember when you go into hypnosis, you're going to be able to stand and maintain perfect balance. You're going to be able to maintain perfect balance even when you go very, very deep."

So what I just set is expectancy for what's going to happen.

Now I'm saying, "Right when I say sleep, your head's going to droop forward, your body's going to get completely loose, but I don't want that to scare you."

So I'm pretending like this is a little safety briefing, but I'm telling you what to do.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, totally.

So your head might fall down and get really loose, and your eyes might close.

You're going to feel a need for those eyes to close, and that's totally normal.

You can just let them close because you'll get even more benefit out of this.

And now, if you wanted one thing out of hypnosis, I'm one of the top hypnotists in the world.

What would you pick?

Would you pick more discipline, more confidence, more gratitude?

What would you pick?

You're asking me personally?

Yeah, more discipline.

Okay, so now that you've said I want more discipline, and I'm holding the key to that, now I've got you excited.

Now I'm building your expectancy using your own desires, right?

So like... and I always ask the question, like, "If you could wave a magic wand, what would be the one thing that you could change about yourself or that you would add to your life?"

So you get people to get excited and kind of get invested in the process.

Okay, now remember, as soon as I say the word sleep, everything's going to be fine.

You're going to be able to stand and maintain perfect balance even if your head and the rest of your body just starts to droop and relax.

I'm going to be right here with you the entire time.

So all I've done has got you to comply a bazillion times, told you exactly what to do, and then told you what's going to happen the moment I say sleep.

Wow.

And the moment I say sleep, I'm going to do a tiny little thing.

Are we on camera?

Yes, this will be on camera.

So stand up really quick.

So like I'm going to feel the back of your head.

So right here is called the occipital protuberance.

Okay, so if you can imagine this feeling like just a tiny touch, like just like that.

And right when somebody says sleep and like that one little push—push right when their eyes are moving upward and that little push to sleep—that little jerk makes their psychology go, "Oh [ __ ], something's happening. Something's going on."

Interesting.

And then the moment their head goes down, I'm starting to count down from 10 to 1.

Why do I count down from 10 to 1?

Because that's a countdown, and people think, "Oh [ __ ], he's counting down. The hypnosis thing is happening."

Right?

So I'm triggering what their societal experiences of what hypnosis has been.

And then I do progressive muscle relaxation—all the muscles in your face completely letting go, those little muscles around your eyes just finally releasing, relaxing, unwinding completely, unraveling, just feeling absolutely perfect as you go even deeper as you take those deep breaths.

Just non-stop blather like this, right?

So you relax all those muscles, but what you're really doing is getting the body to relax to such a state and getting that person to trust you enough to where their brain goes into theta.

That's all it is.

Hypnosis is just theta.

I'm just getting the brain into a theta wave state.

So I'm getting the body to relax, they go into theta.

So that's what's happening here.

Everybody here has massive compliance—massive compliance.

They've been following him for a while.

They've seen thousands of people fall out on stage, so he never needs to tell anybody what's going to happen again because he has this long demonstrated history of like, "Bam! I knock my coat, and these people go down."

Right?

And now you come up on stage, there's 10,000 people watching you, and it's just you and me, and I've got my little coat.

Are you going to be the [ __ ]?

Right?

Or are you going down?

That's a tremendous amount of social pressure.

Yes, but at the same time, they're desiring positive benefit from this, which makes them want to fully let go and completely participate in the entire thing.

So there are many different psychological avenues that are happening at the same time.

So it's a good thing.

Like if they walk out of it and they say, "That's the best day of my life," whatever they spent in this church was worth it.

It was beneficial.

Yeah, yeah.

So there's people that say, "Oh, he's a con artist," or whatever.

A psychologist does tricks on you too, right?

You know, so maybe people get benefit from it.

He may be bilking people for lots of money.

I don't know the guy.

I don't know anything about this industry, right?

But I do know brains.

So that's what hypnosis really is.

So what I just gave to you, literally someone could take what I just did and go hypnotize a stranger exactly with what I just did.

All you got to do to wake them up is count and tell them, "I'm going to wake you up the moment I say five. You'll be awake. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5—wide awake."

So basically, whatever you tell them or suggest to them will happen?

Yeah, because you're compliance, compliance, compliance, compliance.

And at the beginning, I'll often say something like, "I've been doing this a long time. I can tell you're in the top, maybe top 5% of hypnotizability," which we call unconscious power or unconscious connection.

And I made those words up just to kind of go along with what a person needs to feel.

And I'll say, "The only thing that you have to do to go into hypnosis is do every single thing that I say. Are you good with that?"

And they'll be like, "Yeah."

So they're subconsciously...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that does two things.

Number one, it gets them to completely agree to let go.

When I say let go, they have to let go.

Number two, it gets them to say, "Yeah, I will do everything you say."

So if they say they're not going into hypnosis, then it's their fault because they're just not following instructions, right?

Yeah.

The first guy who discovered a lot of this stuff was named Franz Mesmer, and that's where the term "mesmerized" comes from.

Really?

Yeah, Franz Mesmer.

So he didn't call it hypnotism; he called it animal magnetism.

So he believed—and he wasn't a charlatan by any means—he believed that by waving these big water magnets and stuff all around people, that he would heal them.

But these people had an expectation of being healed, so he started producing results.

Right, right.

And the body's powerful.

They did a study up in, I think it was University of Montreal in Canada.

They took this busted-ass MRI machine with a Bluetooth speaker in it that makes MRI noises—that just makes big machine noises.

Yeah.

And they brought kids in there and told these kids up to the age of like 16 that this machine was specially built to cure migraines or dermatitis or eczema or allergies or sleep problems, and it cured them.

That's wild!

It fixed all those things—even allergies got fixed with this fake MRI with a Bluetooth speaker just because there's an expectation of healing.

The brain is such a freaking powerful thing, man.

It's a powerhouse.

And that's why the one thing that pisses me off is when people use the term "placebo effect" to talk about someone being tricked.

Like, that's not what that is, right?

The placebo effect is how powerful your brain is, not how gullible.

Right, it's a measure of power, not stupidity.

Interesting.

You know what I'm saying?

Is there... do you think there's any sort of measurement or any sort of correlation in people that are affected more by that, like the placebo effect versus people who aren't?

Like if you took one group of people and then told them about this MRI thing, how it was going to cure them, and you put them all in there, and the people that were cured—what is it specifically about their brains that is different?

Do you think...

We have to factor in two things.

What if the first group of people had a 22-year-old pimple-faced kid go in there and explain how powerful the MRI is, and the next group had a 6'4", 60-year-old gray-haired, perfectly well-manicured doctor in a lab coat?

Yeah, they're going to get different results.

Sure, but what if it was the same doctor?

Though, what if the conditions were similar?

Yeah, how would you distinguish the difference?

Like, what would you think it is about those people that gives them different results?

And so they're all in the same diet as well?

Yeah, perfectly... exactly the same.

Same humans.

Okay, so I would say it's their level of suggestibility.

Okay, natural suggestibility.

So people that had a pretty decent life that weren't mistrusting of adults—especially if we're dealing with kids.

You know, the most hypnotizable people I've ever seen are like giant NFL football players and NBA basketball player dudes—huge alpha male type guys.

Yeah.

Why?

I don't know.

I think, A, they have a superior ability to visualize, and that's what makes... I think that's what makes it.

I'm not even making this up.

That's what makes a good CEO a good leader—is can they visualize outcomes that they want?

So when I see my one-on-one clients, we spend seven hours teaching them to visualize.

And I'm saying, "I'm going to spend an hour with you as my client, with that pen right there, and you're going to spend two minutes memorizing every detail.

Then you're going to take 30 seconds to close your eyes and rebuild it in your head.

Then I'm going to give you two seconds to open your eyes, pick up a detail that you missed, close your eyes, rebuild it again."

Wow!

Again, again, again, again—hundreds of times.

And then I'll increase the complexity with something that has more reflections, more details.

Then it will train your brain to visualize better and better and better.

And that's a huge problem that most people can't visualize, or they're visualizing negative stuff by default just because that's what mammals do.

Is this similar to like people when they talk about having a photographic memory?

Something that you can kind of like train to do?

Yeah, sort of get better at it by practicing it.

This would not be a memory training tool.

This would be a visualizing-in-the-moment tool because...

Yeah, but it's kind of memory, right?

If I'm looking at this and I'm looking at all of it and trying to close my eyes and come and reconstruct it in my... it's kind of like memory.

And then like people that have photographic memories, they just have this incredible memory to be able to pick out certain details of things and things that happened on certain days and names of people.

It's like... I wonder if that's like an inherent thing or if that's something that can be supported or built up like a muscle.

Doing things like that?

I would lean towards that being a physiological connectivity issue.

Yeah, but so the reason I want them to be hyper-visualizers is because when I hypnotize them, they have a wildly different experience.

Because inside my client's head, I build a medical laboratory in their head where they can give themselves injections, do body scans.

I had a client just two years ago. We built this like an MRI machine scanner inside of her medical lab, which all my clients have these little doorways and stuff where they can do cool stuff with their head and their brain.

I do this with professional athletes and boxers.

We're doing F1 racers.

Wow!

The Formula One guys.

So in the med lab, this woman was scanning her body.

And so I have everybody like, "You build the scanner, lay on the bed, let's turn it on with your hand. There's a control down here."

And she scanned her body and said, "There's like this white glow."

She didn't tell me—she after she woke up, after out of trance, she said, "There's this white glowing ball down here—ovarian teratoma—big ass tumor."

Really?

Yeah, and she found it on her own body scan in her head.

So there's something to it, man.

I think that's wild!

I don't think we give our brains enough credit.

They're really powerful.

And Darren Brown, do you know who he is?

No.

He's a British guy. He... "Miracles for Sale," I think it was called.

He did a whole documentary about this where he pretended to be a religious person, and he healed people using the same techniques.

But he's a hypnotist.

So he pretended to be religious and did a kind of a tour of curing people and stuff and had similar exact same results pretty much.

Really?

That's wild, man!

Truly fascinating!

But that visualizing is so powerful.

And I hate to... have you ever seen the Blue Angels do a flight briefing?

No.

This is going to change your life.

Let's find it.

Type in "Blue Angels Flight."

There we go.

Turn that [ __ ] up!

Forecast weather: winds 250 at 6, 10 mil VI, few at 25,000, altimeter 30002 corrected to 2999.

Astronauts will do this too.

A little p... everyone's eyes are closed.

See that throttle hand?

Vertical 55, easing Diamond Stinger right, adding power.

The souls be in from the right for the tuck of a roll.

The diamond will be in from behind the crowd for the low break.

Craws is the pole rolling out the loop.

Break craws, roll jump, take it in.

Up we go!

It's [ __ ] insane!

Amazing!

Vertical 55, see him pulling his feet off the rudder.

Smoke!

G pull the smallest movements.

Up we go!

Vertical 4, five, horizon 75, adding power, idle, ready, roll, hat on, smoke up, push!

There's pink call!

All right, Diamond Souls, come Tabor, let's have a go!

About that, man!

That is intense!

Holy smokes!

And they're sitting there visualizing their whole entire flight path.

Yeah!

Every single muscle movement!

Oh my God!

I mean, like, yeah, the smallest little wrong move with the wrist could mean death in that situation when they're flying wing to wing at that speed.

Yeah!

And they fly with a 40 lb spring.

What's that mean?

So your main flight stick, right, is pulled back with a 40 lb spring.

So you're always at 40 lb of pressure when you're flying only that plane—the Blue Angel planes, right?

I think the F-18s are 12 lb spring.

When you have any tier one unit, like a SEAL team unit—yeah, like maybe Team Six, Delta dudes—you'll see rehearsals that look exactly like this.

Really?

Everybody's going through that same process, man.

And these are the best in the world, and they are visualizing success.

You know, people say to do this, and people are like, "Oh yeah, I like to visualize. I have a vision board that I keep on my Walmart digital picture frame on my desk."

That's [ __ ] visualizing right there!

I mean, it's real!

It's [ __ ] real, man!

Yeah, I was tempted to make like a huge video, a YouTube video on that, and just to talk about how important it is.

Yeah, and my kids—I think the first time we talked on the phone, I had Miss Rachel in the background.

You remember?

You did have Miss Rachel in the background.

And you were like, "Oh, I know Miss Rachel!"

Yeah!

Oh yeah, I know!

So, the sticky bubblegum song, which I'm sure... sticky, sticky, sticky bubblegum!

Yep!

So I wanted to make a video on YouTube about how important that visualization is.

And my kids, I made them a checklist one time, like, "Here's your perfect checklist of every day. I'm up at this time, I brush my teeth before this time, I feed the dogs, I take care of the stuff I'm supposed to do, my assignments returned in before 11, blah blah blah, here's all the stuff you need to do."

Yeah.

And they hate having a checklist.

They're like, "Oh, we want to be treated like adults."

And I was like, "Do you watch this video? Do you want to be treated like an adult?"

I was like, "You know who uses checklists and never goes away from a checklist? Surgeons, pilots, astronauts!"

Right?

Checklist!

Right?

So, and I think that helped to reframe what that was.

And I said, "I have a checklist every day. You look at my calendar, I have a checklist every single day of my life."

I work from 4:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. every day.

Do you really?

I do!

This last two days were the first two days I've taken off in six years.

And that's including Christmas, birthdays.

I haven't taken a day off, but my company's finally at a place where I'm making money—making very decent money—and I can just start letting go of that steering wheel a little bit more.

And I hired a CEO, which is the best decision I've ever made in my lifetime.

So I'm not a business person.

I'm a creator, you know?

I'm supposed to be an artist just making stuff, you know?

And being a business person kills me.

Like, it ruined me.

Yeah, yeah.

There's not much creativity in it, at least from my perspective.

From my point of view, it's boring.

Yeah, worrying about numbers as an entrepreneur, which you are, it's the biggest lesson I learned in my life was that I had a tendency to look out in the crowd and find other entrepreneur-minded people to hire, which was so dumb.

You got to hire a business person!

You cannot hire an entrepreneur.

You got to hire somebody that's Excel spreadsheet-oriented, data-oriented, earnings—all that.

But for anybody that's out there that's an entrepreneur, hire a business person.

Hire somebody just slightly autistic and obsessed with those spreadsheets and numbers and data.

Right?

That's it!

It's wild [ __ ] man!

Well, thanks again.

This was very fun.

I learned a lot.

A lot to process.

It is!

Thanks for doing this, man.

This was fun!

I enjoyed it.

Me too!

Tell people where they can buy your books, get in touch with you.

Yeah, we got to hold it up.

Do an... look at that!

The Behavioral Ops Manual!

Amazon.com!

Look at that!

Look how thick that [ __ ] is!

It's like a little phone book!

It really is like a little phone book!

It's the textbook now for NCI.

Frick the system!

NCI!

Thanks, man!

I appreciate it, man!

We'll link everything below.

All right, good night, world!