Transcription
[music] This is Democracy Now! Democracynow.org. I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez. We're breaking in with this news. The United States has seized Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro after US forces launched what President Trump called a large-scale attack. Maduro and his wife were flown out of Venezuela, expected to be brought to New York. They've been criminally charged.
Just before we recorded this, President Trump spoke, saying, "We're going to run the country until such time we can do a safe, proper, and judicious transition." In an interview with Fox, Trump said the US will be very strongly involved in the Venezuelan oil industry. Venezuela has the world's largest oil reserves. It's unclear how many Venezuelans were killed in the operation, which was carried out with the help of the CIA and US Delta Force soldiers.
The US attack has been widely criticized around the world. Uh, the Brazilian president, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, wrote on X, "The bombings on Venezuelan territory and the capture of its president cross an unacceptable line. They cross an unacceptable line. These acts represent a grave affront to Venezuela's sovereignty and yet another extremely dangerous precedent for the entire international community." Mexico's Ministry of Foreign Affairs condemned the attack as a clear violation of Article Two of the Charter of the United Nations.
Congress member Greg Casar, chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, wrote, "Trump has no right to take us to war with Venezuela. This is reckless and illegal. Congress should vote immediately on a War Powers Resolution to stop him." Congress member Casar said.
We're joined right now by Miguel Tinker Solis, emeritus professor of history at Pomona College in Claremont. He is the author of *The Enduring Legacy: Oil, Culture, and Society in Venezuela*, as well as *Venezuela: What Everyone Needs to Know*. We're also joined on the ground in Caracas by Andreena Chavez, reporter there. Her piece earlier this week for Drop Site News was "War of the Entire People."
But before we go to our guests, Juan Gonzalez, you were there in Panama. It was 35 years ago today, uh, that, uh, Manuel Noriega was seized by US forces and brought to the United States. And it's a month after President Trump pardoned a man who was convicted in this country of narcotics trafficking, the former president of Honduras, Juan Orlando Hernández. Your thoughts?
>> Yes, Amy. Well, this is an extraordinary moment in what is clearly, uh, and by international law, a completely, uh, illegal, uh, military action by the United States. But in listening to the press conference that, uh, President Trump and his top aides, uh, uh, held just a little while ago, a few things, uh, stand out to me. Uh, one is the size of this attack, and we, we didn't really get a sense of that until General Dan Kaine, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has had an opportunity to talk. Uh, and he mentioned over 150 of the most advanced military aircraft of the United States participated in this, uh, in this, uh, basically, an Air Force invasion of, uh, uh, of, uh, of Venezuela. Uh, and in addition to the Delta Force and CIA operatives that were on the ground, a blackout of Caracas that the United States triggered in order to be able to operate in complete darkness, uh, and the admission by both the general and President Trump that there was a lot of opposition, uh, of Venezuelan forces, uh, on the ground, uh, to the, to the US attack. That, that's one thing, the size of this attack.
The second, as you mentioned, is Trump's claim that the United States is going to run Venezuela from now on, and that this, this was not just a question of extracting Maduro for, uh, uh, for supposed alleged drug, uh, crimes, but also a regime change operation that the United States is going to directly run Venezuela. And I thought the most interesting thing of all was, uh, Trump's claim late in the press conference that, uh, Marco Rubio has been in conversations with the current vice president, uh, Delcy Rodríguez, and that, according to Trump, uh, she told, uh, she told Rubio, quote, "We'll do whatever you need," as if implying that Delcy Rodríguez, the vice, the vice president, and, uh, clearly the successor to Maduro, was in some way or other, uh, agreeing, uh, to this, uh, US intervention or at least, uh, acknowledging it. Uh, so I think that those are the three things that stuck out to me. We'll have to see in the next few hours and days to what degree, uh, some of these claims of Trump are, uh, actually factual.
>> Well, these developments of the last hours have been stunning. We want to go first to Caracas to Andreena Chavez. If you can, uh, talk about how people are responding, what we have seen, the images of different cities of Venezuela being bombed, attacked, a large-scale attack, as President Trump put it, uh, by the United States.
>> Yes. So, first of all, I just want to say that President Nicolás Maduro, he wasn't captured, he wasn't seized, he wasn't arrested. He was kidnapped. This is a kidnapping. The United States has just kidnapped a constitutionally elected president. So, this is something that, it goes beyond our wildest imagination. This is something terribly against international law, against all principles of sovereignty, of self-determination of the people. So, this is something that we need to clarify.
Second, uh, these comments that President Trump and his government are saying that they are negotiating with the government of Venezuela. We should not believe those claims. None of that has been confirmed. Vice President Delcy Rodríguez, she has very clearly stated that the message right now is to resist. The message right now is to go to the streets, is to fight against this imperialist aggression, is to denounce this imperialist aggression. And there is no such thing, such transition or vacuum of power happening right now. Right now, we are fighting against this aggression. So, we need to treat these claims by the Trump administration mostly as psychological operations to try to debilitate, uh, even more, the Venezuelan government that is still standing, that is still here. We need to remember that we still have a Venezuelan government, even though President Maduro has just been kidnapped.
Uh, second, as you said, we just experienced a quite horrifying night. Uh, we woke up around 2:00 a.m. to the sound of extremely loud explosions. Uh, of course, at the moment, we didn't know what was happening. Everybody knew it was something terrible because it's something like an earthquake, like the sky was falling down. I could hear the planes. I couldn't see them, but I could hear the planes. I live very close to Miraflores, so I imagine that is why I could actually hear all this oper, military operation happening around me. And we immediately got confirmation from the Venezuelan government that at least seven points of Caracas had been attacked, at least seven places between civilian places and military complexes there. There were also attacks in places like Estado La Guaira, Miranda. All these places were attacked. After that, we got even more confirmation from the defense minister, Vladimir Padrino López, who said that indeed, we were under an imperialist military aggression from the United States, and that the, the call right now for the Venezuelan people was to just remain calm, but also to remember that we need to fight back against this regime change, because at the end of the day, we need to remember that this is regime change.
Uh, we have to remember that the US has been peddling a lie about Venezuela, about the Venezuelan government being a drug cartel, about the Venezuelan government being involved in drug trafficking, using evidence that is not credible at all. Using not even using evidence at, at the most, they're just using a court in New York to say that President Maduro is involved in narcotics trafficking without actually presenting evidence that he is doing that. There is absolutely no credible evidence that there is a Venezuelan state that is involved in a high-structured drug trafficking corporation. That is not true. They have been using that lie, forced to kill people in small vessels in the Caribbean, and now to bomb Venezuela and to kidnap the Venezuelan president. So, right now, we're facing a regime change. And I think that is something that is the first thing that people need to have in mind, that Venezuela is being bought. We are facing a regime change. President Trump just said it. He said that right now, who's going to run Venezuela? The United States has decided that they're going to control Venezuela from now on. They're going to, uh, control Venezuela's oil business from now on. So, if this was actually something about, uh, capturing a supposed narco-trafficking person, then why wouldn't that just mean that the Venezuelan government continues? We have a vice president who constitutionally is mandated to now take power. But no, he's not saying that. He's saying that anybody who remains loyal to the Chavista process is going to go down. He's saying that there, there might be more military operations. And he's saying that now the United States is going to assign people to control the Venezuelan government. And the first thing that he's going to do is take power over the Venezuelan oil industry. And remember that he says the Venezuelan oil industry wasn't working right, that he, he was going to make it finally work right. But you need to remember that the Venezuelan oil industry has been under US sanctions for almost a decade.
>> Let us bring Professor Tinker Solis into this conversation. You were born in Venezuela. Your books are about Venezuela. Um, you woke up to this news as well. Uh, you're based right now in California. If you can, uh, respond to these points and especially what, uh, uh, Andreena is talking about, the US will now run Venezuela, uh, until such time as there is a just, just transition. Uh, Marco, [clears throat] Rubio, the Secretary of State, calling, um, uh, saying that Maduro was given plenty of chances to step down, but in fact, he's a wild man. He said,
>> "Yeah, the, the spectacle of that press conference is amazing. Um, it looked like something out of a Hollywood movie set, a B-movie set. Um, this is the Pirates of the Caribbean. This is Marco Rubio now the viceroy of Venezuela. Um, this is an effort to run Venezuela with 15,000 troops. Um, that, that's utterly impossible. There is a government in Venezuela. There's a people in Venezuela. This was, this was a kidnapping, uh, of a government in, in Venezuela. The reality is that we've seen this before. Uh, we've seen this in, in, in Panama. We've seen this throughout the history of Latin America, whether Nicaragua, whether Haiti, whether Mexico. Um, the reality here is very clearly Trump made this about oil. He says that what they do want to run is not the country. What they do want to run is the oil fields. Um, and that's the central part of this discussion. I think we need to keep an eye on that ball. And I think that the other part of this is it's clearly a message internally for US politics with a view towards midterm elections. The US can impose its will. We saw that clearly in the national security strategy documents that were revealed, uh, a couple of weeks ago, where the US will control the Western Hemisphere, the US will impose its will. The message is clear for Mexico. The message is clear for Brazil. The message is clear for everywhere in Latin America. What we've seen here is an effort at regime change. And we heard this, this before. We heard this in, in Iraq when Bush said that the oil production in Iraq will pay for the intervention. Uh, well, that didn't happen in Iraq, and it won't happen in Venezuela. This is about regime change. This is about establishing US dominance. This is about the US regaining control, um, and excluding China and Russia. Um, and imagine what, what Putin must be thinking or Xi Jinping about zones of influence. Well, if the US can exert its role in the Caribbean, well, why shouldn't Russia exert its role in Ukraine? Why shouldn't China exert its role in Taiwan? Um, the, the, the dimensions of this are incredible, and I think this is, this is not, this is, uh, an unreal act, uh, at a time, uh, where the countries of Latin America now will be threatened.
And Miguel, I wanted to ask you, repeatedly during the press conference, President Trump talked about, and he has said so now for weeks, that Venezuela, Venezuela stole our oil, stole the US oil, and that the United States is getting it back. Could you talk about some of this history that, because this is a complete fabrication of what the historical record is? The, the main nationalization of Venezuelan oil occurred not under Maduro, not under Chávez or any other Bolivarian revolution, socialist revolution, but occurred in 1976 under Carlos Andrés Pérez. Uh, and, uh, it was, it was only Chávez that then further, uh, uh, moved forward on the nationalization. Could you talk about that history and how this is a complete, uh, misrepresentation of what has happened with Venezuela?
>> Venezuela knew the existence of oil before the Europeans or the Americans arrived. Uh, the very first oil industry was in the 1870s in Alquitrana, in the state of Táchira, where Venezuelans ran their own oil operation. They exploited it, they developed it. Having no infrastructure, they really couldn't promote it. And the lack of internal combustion engines meant that they couldn't really develop it. Um, oil was discovered in, in profusely in 1922, in Cabimas, in La Rosa. Um, it was run by, at that time, British and, and Dutch companies. U. Venezuela eventually nationalized its oil industry in 1975, taking effect in 1976. Um, it was controlled by Venezuelans. It was run by Venezuelans. Um, and it was fully compensated. Um, the American companies and the Dutch companies and the American companies and the British were fully compensated, much above and beyond what they had already extracted out of the ground, uh, in huge amounts of profits. Uh, for ExxonMobil, for example, Standard Oil Company of New Jersey, Creole Petroleum was its most profitable subsidiary. It maintained that entire operation of Standard Oil, which is today ExxonMobil. Uh, what Chávez did in 19, in 2006 and '07 was to close the back door that was left open in Article Five of the reform nationalization in 1976, which had allowed other existing oil companies to proceed in Venezuela as partners operating with PDVSA. He imposed on, on those companies the joint ventures, but that they had to include PDVSA, which is the Venezuelan Petroleum Corporation. So, Trump is utterly wrong, utterly lying when he says that the oil companies were stolen from the Americans. They were fully compensated. They had received compensation over and over and over, in addition to what they had extracted in profits out of Venezuela previously. Um, but we go back to the old Juan Pablo Pérez Alfonzo, the minister of Petroleum in Venezuela in the 1960s, that said, "Oil is the excrement of the devil." And once again, Trump has proven that.
>> Andrena, I can see that you've been nodding your head, um, from Caracas. If you can talk about what President Trump said, that the oil companies will be funding this, and also the Nobel Peace Laureate Machado, who is outside the country right now, um, what this means, uh, where she is. They said she, they are not bringing her back right now, and that Marco Rubio, Andreena, has been talking with Delcy Rodríguez, as you pointed out.
>> Yes. So, there's this claim that María Corina has been talking with Rodríguez, and as I said before, we don't have actual confirmation that that is happening. They have also claimed that they were negotiating with President Maduro. They have made a lot of claims, and we know now those are not true. If there was any kind of negotiation with President Maduro, then they wouldn't have kidnapped him in the middle of the night while bombing the entire country. So, we know that the United States government lies, uh, either because they want to create this psychological operation against the people, or because it is convenient for them to lie so people don't actually figure out what it is that they're doing. So, there's no confirmation that there's any kind of negotiation happening either with Delcy Rodríguez, who's the vice president, or other key figures in the government. All we know right now is that the government figures that are still standing, they are calling the people to resist and to go to the streets and to fight back against this regime change operation. And of course, there are also, I just came from near Miraflores. I was in a protest. Uh, people were there taking turns to speak on the microphone, and every single person were saying, "We don't, we are not giving up. We are not giving up. We are going to demand that President Maduro is brought back. We're going to demand that we have proof of life of President Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores." So, people are not just, uh, waiting to see what plans the United States has for Venezuela. People are actually, uh, fighting against it and denouncing very publicly in the streets, saying, "This is not acceptable. We do not accept this because we elected a president, and the United States doesn't have any kind of authority to decide that Maduro has to be kidnapped and that now they're going to appoint some kind of, uh, like the dictatorships from the past, to now run Venezuela."
When it comes to María Corina Machado, we don't really, uh, they have been very careful not to mention her, and I think that, uh, that proves that in a lot of ways, they were actually sort of inflating her figure, trying to, trying to pose her as this kind of, um, natural opposition figure who needed to take power in Venezuela eventually. But I don't think they were actually that committed to María Corina Machado because ultimately, they don't care. They just care about whoever, even if it's just a bunch of Venezuelans living in the United States, learning the country, they don't care if it's María Corina. They just care that it is someone that is, uh, friendly to US interests. So, María Corina might as well not be that involved in the whole equation, or she might be in the future. As we all, we all know, María Corina has been very vocal about, uh, wanting the United States to invade Venezuela, to attack Venezuela. Uh, she has been very vocal about being available to run Venezuela herself and treat Venezuela as some kind of, and she said it herself. She has this, this is her actual word. She said that Venezuela is a "sexy woman," and she's ready to just give this "sexy woman" to the world. Meaning that she's willing to open up Venezuela's oil industry, oil resources, all our natural resources to US corporations. And as Miguel was saying, it is indeed completely false that the Venezuelan government, the Ugos, the Chávez government back then, ever took away these, um, these rights from US corporations. That's not true. They were compensated. There were some corporations like ExxonMobil and ConocoPhillips who simply decided that they didn't want to respect Venezuelan sovereignty. They didn't want to respect the fact that the Venezuelan state wanted to have majority control in our own oil resources, in our oil joint ventures. So, they decided to leave Venezuela. They abandoned their oil projects, and now they are trying to, uh, fabricate this narrative that somehow that means that they were stolen, and they were not. These are just corporations that are greedy, that they were used to, uh, exploiting Venezuela however they wanted without actually giving anything back to the Venezuelan people, and now they want to do the same, and that's what Trump just said.
>> Andrena, I, I wanted to ask you in terms of what you have heard there in, uh, uh, in Venezuela from the other key leaders of the country, uh, around Maduro, specifically, of Vladimir Padrino López, the defense minister, Jorge Rodríguez, the president of the National Assembly and the brother of the vice president, Delcy Rodríguez, and also Diosdado Cabello, the interior minister. These are considered the, the key figures around Maduro. Have any of them made, uh, announcements other than Delcy Rodríguez, the interview she did on a radio, a program where, uh, by phone, where she called for people to resist?
>> Yes. So, Defense Minister Vladimir Padrino López, he was the first one to actually give a live statement, a video statement, in which he, he told the people that indeed, we will be attacked by the US. Uh, he said that not only military sites were being struck, but also civilian population. Uh, he said that the army was ready to fight back, that they were mobilized, that they were outside, that they were taking charge, that they were monitoring the entire country. He called people to remain calm, to, uh, not believe any of these wild claims and psychological operations that are going around. And of course, he advised that we need to stick to the truth. We need to stick to the source, which is the Venezuelan government. Right now, there are a lot of, um, mainstream media outlets and just people on social media claiming a lot of things, publishing photos that are edited, that are AI. So, we need to try to focus on who are the people who actually can give us information, and that those are the Venezuelan government. Besides Padrino López, we also had, uh, Cabello. He was on the streets from the moment this began, this started happening. Just Cabello and his group of people, they went to the streets, and he gave a declaration from the streets telling to people that indeed, we just were victims of this horrifying attack, and he asked people to trust the Venezuelan government. He said, "Trust your authorities. Trust your leaders. We are, we're weighing this. We're handling the situation. We know this is terrible. We know this is bad, but we're going to fight back." So, these key figures in the Venezuelan government, they have stated very clearly that they are not giving up. There is no chance that they are actually negotiating anything with the US government. They're on the streets. They are fighting back, and they're advising people to do the same.
>> Juan, [clears throat] I'm wondering if you can talk about this was not limited to a discussion about, uh, Venezuela. Trump's news conference, they also talked about Cuba. If you could summarize, as well as Miguel Tinker Solis, about what exactly President Trump is saying, what his designs are.
>> Well, I, I think it's very clear. We saw that in the national security document earlier on. We, we saw clearly in the Western Hemisphere approach that the US wants to reimpose itself. It talked about a new Monroe Doctrine. To me, it's more like the "big stick" diplomacy, which is the US will replace whatever government it wants to in the region whenever it wants to. The message is clear to any progressive forces in Latin America. The message is clear to Brazil. The message is clear to Mexico and Claudia Sheinbaum. The message is clear to Cuba that it will be in the crosshairs next. Um, this is about reimposing US military and economic dominance in Latin America, starting in the Caribbean, starting with Venezuela. But the message is very clearly sent to Cuba, to Mexico, to Nicaragua, to any progressive government. And it's also a message of support for the conservative right-wing governments of the region. It's a, it's a support for the, for the president of Chile. It's support for the president of Ecuador, for El Salvador, uh, for the president of Argentina. When Trump talked about the presidents that he has endorsed have won. So, what he's trying to create is a new coalition of the willing, or in the, in this case, of the right, the countries of the right in Latin America that have gone to the right, um, and impose the US will. But underscoring again, national hegemony, the international hegemony of the US, economic supremacy, um, being able to extract all its minerals for the region, talking about oil, um, so dominating oil is central to what Trump is talking about, um, and very clearly, as you pointed out, threw María Corina Machado under the bus, saying she doesn't have the support, she will not govern, they will govern. So, she was being manipulated, the same way that Venezuela is being manipulated, right? Yeah.
>> And Amy, I think, uh, one quote from the, uh, uh, Trump's press conference summed it up for, for me pretty concisely. He said at one point, and I'm quoting his words, "American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be doubted again." This reminds me of, uh, the infamous George Bush proclamation, "Mission Accomplished," in the invasion of Iraq. It's very easy for the US military to invade or intervene in a country. It is a lot harder to actually force people to do, masses of people, millions of people, to do what you want. And so, this is not a, uh, this is not the climax of the long-running struggle between oppression and resistance in Latin America. This is actually just another chapter in what will be a, a long-running, uh, saga that we're going to, that's going to unfold over the next months and possibly years.
>> And Juan, before we wrap up, you were in Panama as a reporter 35 years ago. It was 35 years ago today, January 3rd, that the US, uh, took Manuel Noriega forcibly, uh, from his country and brought him to the United States. If you can talk about those comparisons, and then again, uh, we cannot forget it's been a month since President, uh, Trump pardoned, uh, a man who is convicted of narcotics trafficking, the former president of Honduras, Juan Orlando Hernández, sentenced to 45 years in prison. His brother, Tony Hernández, is already serving a life sentence in the United States.
>> You know, I, I think it's, it's, it's clear. I remember spending, uh, both Christmas and New Year's of, of, uh, that period, 1990, in, uh, uh, in, uh, in, in Panama, and watching the US invasion. The, there was a difference there in that the US was already in Panama. It had military bases, uh, in the Panama Canal Zone. So, the invasion was really, uh, was a lot easier for the United States to accomplish then. Here, we've seen the buildup now for, uh, for months of military forces in the Caribbean, uh, and all of the attacks on boats and the, the blockades before, uh, and the, uh, the ordering of all aircraft not to fly into Venezuela. So, this was a much bigger buildup. Venezuela is a far larger country. The people of Venezuela are much more politically conscious and organized than were the people of Panama. And so, as I said earlier, it's, this is not going to be a repetition of the Panama invasion that it ends, it, it ends pretty quickly. We're going to see a long, drawn-out struggle in Venezuela, and the rest of Latin America, in one way or another, will have to become involved, uh, and take sides in this, uh, uh, in, in these actions, for or against the actions of the United States.
>> Well, I want to thank everyone for, uh, spending this time. And a correction. It was 36 years ago today that Manuel Noriega was taken by, um, the United States from Panama to the United States. Um, I want to thank all our guests for being with us. Miguel Tinker Solis, emeritus professor of history at Pomona College in Claremont, California, author of *The Enduring Legacy: Oil, Culture, and Society in Venezuela* and *Venezuela: What Everyone Needs to Know*. And from the streets of, or in Caracas, just from the streets of Caracas, Venezuela, Andreena Chavez, uh, reporter, um, who, um, just came from the streets, uh, who just recently wrote a piece for Drop Site News. And right before we go, I believe we've just been joined by Alejandro Velasco, who is an associate professor at NYU, historian of modern Latin America, uh, former executive director of NACLA Report on the Americas, an author of *Barrio Rising: Urban Popular Politics and the Making of Modern Venezuela*. He was born and raised in Venezuela. Um, Juan and I would like to ask you, and welcome you, Alejandro Velasco, to this, um, conversation. Your response to this news that has, um, developed over these last hours, uh, through the night, uh, the US bombing of Venezuela, and then, uh, the dragging of the Venezuelan president, uh, Maduro, and his wife from their beds. And now, as we speak, apparently, according to President Trump and those around him, is being taken to New York, uh, to be brought up on narcotics trafficking charges. Your thoughts as we wrap up this discussion.
>> It's, um, there are so many strands to this that are shocking. And first, of course, it was just waking up at 2:30 in the morning with frantic messages from family and friends about what's going on. Then trying throughout the morning to piece together whether this was a, you know, boots on the ground, large-scale invasion or something else, and finally realizing that it was a snatch-and-go operation. And then asking the question, well, what are the larger intents of the, uh, of the Trump administration if it's not to actually effect regime change, leaving the entire apparatus of the Chavista-Maderista government in place? And then, of course, the Trump, the Trump press conference, which basically just highlighted the extent to which the primary interest here is oil and Venezuela's resources. But then also Marco Rubio coming in and saying, "No, no, no, it's not about that, it's about legality and, you know, indictments, right?" And so, you know, right now, my primary reaction is anxiety and stress and concern about the next few days and hours and what it's going to mean. I will say one quick thing, which is that, you know, if somebody is presumably, you know, very unhappy right now, at least after the Trump press conference, it's María Corina Machado, the Nobel Prize winner, who Trump seems to basically just thrown under the bus and said, like, "No, we're willing to work with the structure that's in power right now as long as they play ball," and my mate doesn't really have the respect of the Venezuelan, you know, I think he probably meant the Venezuelan state, um, and so, you know, that is a big question, what's going to happen to that hardline Venezuelan opposition.
>> Alejandro, what are you going to be looking for right now? Um, as people across the world, world leaders, we just read comments, for example, uh, from Brazil, from Mexico, are condemning this move. What is most important, do you feel right now?
>> Right. Two, two things. The, the first one is what's happening with the rest of the, um, the Venezuelan government and its high officials. Um, are they, in fact, in place? Are they speaking, negotiating back channels with the Trump administration to stay in place, to safeguard some kind of transition? Or is the, the next move on the part of the Trump administration to pressure them as well to, to leave the country and to, you know, seed path to something else? So, that's on the one thing, on the one hand. On the other hand, the big question is, what's the US government, the US Congress going to do? This was such an explicitly anti- you know, constitutional, illegal operation that they're masquerading as a legal, you know, um, you know, process, law enforcement, but it's clearly a military operation for which there was no authority. Um, and so, those are the two major things: Is Congress going to respond? And how is the Venezuelan, what remains of the Venezuelan government, going to respond?
>> Well, thank you so much for being with us at the end of this conversation. Alejandro Velasco, associate professor at NYU, historian of modern Latin America, and former executive editor of NACLA Report on the Americas, author of the book *Barrio Rising: Urban Popular Politics and the Making of Modern Venezuela*. This is Democracy Now. Tune in on Monday for a regular broadcast on internet, on TV, on radio, on social media. I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez with this breaking news.
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