Sales Roleplay - Executive Job Coaching Offer With $1M/mo Trainer [LIVE]

What is going on? We are back with another high-ticket sales roleplay. We are going to do executive coaching today. So, if you are selling an offer where you're helping people do some type of ascension in their professional life, this will be for you. We'll go through the discovery. We'll go through all the different subtle nuances that you need to be mastering and you need to be implementing so that you can close more deals and make more money as a high-ticket closer. We have Valentina who's going to play the closer for this offer. And then we have Faith who's going to be the prospect.

So without any further ado, Valentina, kick us off with your opening question.

So Faith, in your own opinion, what would you say is the biggest challenge that you are facing currently in your job search right now?

I would say the biggest challenge that I'm having is just even finding like a job that's comparable to what I'm doing. And even harder than that, even finding a job that's like a next step up. Everything I'm seeing is is kind of lower than I even was previously, and I'm I'm not wanting to take a step back in my career at this point.

Got it. So, you're looking to find a job that's comparable and take that next step up, but everything that you are seeing right now is lower than where you were at previously. Is that correct?

Yeah. Like I I would at least love to find something comparable just to get some some income, but it's that's not even ideal, but I I would take it for now. But I am really wanting that next step up.

Got it. Now, when you say comparable, would you mind giving me some more clarity on what exactly you mean by comparable?

Yeah, like I was a manager before of a team of about 20 people, and so something comparable would be in that range.

Okay. So, you were a manager of a 20-person team, and you also mentioned that you want to take the next step up. So, what exactly does that mean for you in terms of title?

Yeah, I would love uh good stuff, Valentina. Good energy, good pace.

Anything that you think you may have missed before moving on to that next question because you're going in a different direction now, which is the step up is the data collection for really what's happening right now that's not allowing her to find that comparable role.

Correct. And so what are you missing as far as data?

Well, the whole her whole strategy, you know, what she's been doing, um, how long she's been looking, how many applications she sent out. So, that's that's another category, and you do need that. That's what she's currently doing. My opinion is when she said, and it was a great clarified question. You know, what what do you mean comparable? Comparable in what way? She said management and a team of 20 people. Do you think that's the only thing that she's got as her list of comparability? As in, oh, so long as it's to manage a role with 20 people, that that will do.

No. Why not?

Because well, I I I guess I don't know that yet.

Don't know what.

I just I don't know why. I don't know why not of or or in my own opinion, why not? So, what I'm saying is, you know, you had a great question which was she wants something comparable. We don't know what she means by comparable. She gave you one answer which was well my old role was managing and it was a team and there was about 20 people, and then you moved on. In my opinion, there's going to be more things under that list of comparability. And so I would have gone okay cool what else? And that's just having the intuition as a closer of like she answered the question, but I think there's more going on there. So, I would dig further further further into comparable cuz what we really want to know is why is she struggling? Why is she in pain? It's probably not because she just can't find a manager role or she just can't find a role with a team of 20 people. It's probably the fact that she's got a list of criteria and she's getting one but not the other or two out of three or three out of five, but she's not getting everything she wants. So, you need to stay on that and dig in a little bit more. Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense. And then that's part of the data collection, right?

100%. Yeah. What is she not currently finding with the roles? Then you know, how's that process going for her? How much time she putting in? How much effort? What are the results? We know they're not uh good results as far as the end goal, but where is it? Where's the ball being dropped in her application process? So, the main thing is you you just moved on too quick from comparable. There's going to be more in there.

Okay. So, carry on from there.

Okay. So managing a a 20-person team. What else?

I also would like to make more money. I was making like 150,000 a year there, and so I would also like to take a step up there.

Okay. So you're looking to take a step up when it comes to your salary. Is there a specific reason why?

I am 30 years old and I've been making that like, you know, 100 to 150 um for the past few years, and now that I'm feel like I'm at a age and a spot where I'm wanting that next step up in income so that I could really start just like, you know, making those changes not only in in career but also just in my personal life as well.

Got it. So, you're really looking to make those shifts not only in your career, but also in your personal life. And what would that higher salary do for you in your personal life?

Well, I'm in a good spot where I'm totally debt-free now. The money I've been making, I've been able to put myself in a good spot there. But I feel like, you know, just with um the economy and how things are going, 150 just doesn't get me that much farther anymore. And so I'd really like to be in a spot where I could, you know, save up money to be able to invest to really eventually get to a point where I'm I'm financially free.

Notice how notice how she said eventually get to a point, which means you're talking about the future. Hard to sell someone if they're talking about eventually one day when pigs fly, I'd love to be able to do this. Difficult to sell someone. So be careful, Valentina. you you'll get stuck on trying to close someone if you go too much into the future.

Could I would it be appropriate to move back even if for example I question they're going into the future and then I just kind of bring it back when it you can there's no issue with that. It's just remember that what you're supposed to be doing with the prospect is heating up the temperature and heating it up and heating it up and heating it up. Every time you go into a different direction, the boiling water loses the boil and you have to boil it again. So, it it kind of gives the prospect a bit of whiplash. Plus, it wastes a lot of time, and you just ultimately don't get to the highest temperature that you need the prospect to be at cuz it should be accumulating and accumulating and accumulating or compounding that she's feeling more and more and more and more pressure about her current situation.

Got it?

Okay. So one of the things that I would have done to start to build that temperature is we're getting into comparables. Okay, so managing team of 20 people salary is $1 to $150,000 or more. What else are you looking for that's comparable to what you had before, and she'll give you more and more things, and you you you fill up the bucket on that side. Okay, so she knows what she wants and she's not getting it. Then to really bury her in the pain, you then say, "So those are the things you do want. What are you getting as far as available opportunities?" And then now she's having to tell herself, "Well, you know what? I'm getting jobs that are $80,000 salary or jobs where I'm not running a team." And when she's telling you the experience of what she's currently seeing as available applications, she's feeling the pain of how [ __ ] her current options are. So, one thing is these are the things that she wants, and and that's good because you need that data, but more importantly to make her feel the pain is what are you currently getting as far as opportunities? And she'll just give you a list of everything that sucks. And when she tells you that, she feels that frustration.

Okay. So, you you are the best place to start would be go back to comparable. Okay. And summarize from there. We've got managing teams of 20 people and the salary. And I I personally think there's still more in there as far as comparable. And then you want to get into what she's currently, you know, how's it currently going?

Got it.

Okay. So, Faith, managing a team of 20 people, you know, a salary of 150K. What else when you say comparable do you mean?

Also the the environment like the place I was last at. I really liked the environment, you know, I had the the trust to be able to, you know, call call shots or things like that. I was really able to, you know, choose who I was hiring and I had the final say. So, I really was able to build up a good team. And I'm I'm kind of worried that um you know taking a role somewhere else even if the pay is good that it's going to be an environment that I that I don't enjoy.

I hear you. So you're also looking for that proper work environment where you are trusted to call the shots, choose who you're hiring, but right now you're a little bit worried that you're not going to find that. So when it comes to your current search, what are you getting as far as available opportunities?

before you go there. Why is she worried?

I don't know. And you want to choose who you're hiring, but you're worried. So, why exactly are you worried?

Well, I just feel like, you know, I there's whether it's been past experiences I have where I didn't didn't love the environment or, you know, I just know some some people that are in similar positions than me, but seems like they're always complaining about their job and even if they make good money, it seems like at a point you're not enjoying the environment that you're in, the money is almost not even worth it.

I see. So, this is just based off of past experiences and what you're hearing is going on with other people. When you say past experiences, is this the time that you looked for a role before this or what exactly do you mean by past experiences?

Yeah, in my very first management role, I was in a company that I really didn't enjoy the environment of the workplace. And, you know, at the time when I was looking to leave that job, the job market was great. I really felt like I had the opportunity to really consider that when I was interviewing and really even make sure that I I could ask, you know, companies that I was interviewing with what their work environment was like and had the flexibility to to say no to certain companies and yes to the companies that I did want to work with. And I don't know if I have that same flexibility now with how the the job market is right now to be able to to pick and choose what I want.

Yeah, I I understand that just in terms of how much the the market has changed in the last few years. So just compared to the last time that you did look for a role, what are you noticing now just in terms of

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, cuz we can bury her in this. So ba, let me run you through what she's saying, and I'll translate it for you to sales speak. So in the past she went to apply for some jobs, and she felt like she had more flexibility, but despite that she ended up in some roles where the environment she really didn't enjoy it. So let's think about what we're selling her. We're selling her the fact that in the past with more flexibility she still ended up in a job that she really didn't like the environment. Now she's in a situation with less flexibility. In other words, what's the likelihood that she ends up back in that situation in a bad work environment or worse? Pretty high. She doesn't want to go through that experience. So, what we're going to be selling her, at least what we've got so far, is by having a a higher level of of executive coaching help, she'll have more flexibility, which prevents her having to go through that experience of having a bad work environment. Now, we have to get her to relive a bit of that experience to make her really bought in to [ __ ] no, I don't want to have that experience again. So, I would dig into that one or two extra questions. So, I'd say something like, "Okay, so in the past, you had more flexibility, but you actually still ended up in an environment which you you really didn't enjoy despite the money. being in an environment where you really didn't enjoy it regardless of the money. How did that make you feel having to work in that environment?

Yeah. Right. And then she's going to have to tell the story. And when she tells the story, then as we get later on in the sales call, what we're selling her is not having to relive that bad experience again by choosing a a job role from limited flexibility. but she's not going to feel the call it consequence of that if we haven't dug into how bad that experience was. So every time you're listening, you you got to be listening for what is going to help me sell the prospect. Where is her pain? Whether it's in the present or recent past, dig into those things because those things help you sell her at the end of the call. Does that make sense?

Yes, that that makes sense. And I think often times I'll I'll ask one question, but then there's just so much deeper that that I could go many more.

Yep. 100%.

Okay. So, in the past you had more flexibility, but then still ended up in an environment that you did not enjoy regardless of the money that you were making. How did that make you feel?

Yeah. Well, when I was in that kind of environment, that was the first the first management role I had ever taken. So, at that point, I didn't really know what to look for. I just was excited to be in a management role and excited to you know obviously make more money. And so at first I was really excited to just get into it. But you know as days or weeks or months went by just how like toxic it felt in that environment really started to like wear me out. Not only at the job but I would go home and kind of take that that with me. And I I just got to a point where I I didn't feel great. I thought I would stay at my first role for a lot longer than than I did. and I only ended up staying at that first role for a year before I left because I just like felt like I couldn't take it anymore.

What was an what was an example of something toxic in that work environment?

Am I answering that?

Yes.

One example was I like I said I was the you know manager and at that point I had the ability to hire and fire and there was one employee that was just really making the team work dynamic not great. I did not feel like they were holding up their end of things and I I made the choice to get rid of them and I made that choice. I notified them and they actually went um above me to my director and the director didn't trust what I was saying and they ended up putting them back on my team and that environment where I don't have the trust from my director and then therefore didn't have the trust from my employees after that decision. It just felt like it was like a losing battle.

Got it. That makes total sense. And so now with less kind of flexibility in the job market, you you want to make sure that when you do go into this next role that you absolutely have an environment where you you are trusted and you know your decisions aren't basically you know gone back on. Is that accurate?

Yeah. I I feel like if if I'm going to be in a management role, I you know want the responsibility to manage how I see fit and I don't want my question my choices to be uh questioned or almost like re written over.

Makes total sense.

All right. So just one extra question we get to pull out what that actual experience was. What what was a toxic example? Otherwise, you're you're like going across the ground looking for where to dig and then you find the spot to dig and you just dig like a few feet and then you stop digging. There's no point. You got to dig until you're like, "Oh, okay. There's something there and then I'll move on."

Yeah. Got it. Yes, that was Yeah, that was amazing to to see. All right, keep going. You can jump in wherever you want to go back to or start from. It's up to you.

Okay. So now moving forward, you want to make sure that your choices aren't questioned and you're no longer in that toxic work environment. Is that correct?

Yeah, absolutely.

And now with the lack of flexibility that you're seeing in the market, what exactly do you mean by that? You know, what have you been seeing as far as opportunities that are out there?

Sorry, before you answer that, Faith, one thing to be aware of, guys, as far as what we're doing with data gathering is as we go from our opening question through our other questions, we pick up something that's going on in the prospect's life. But when we first pick it up, it's very vague. Toxic environment. Well, the [ __ ] does that mean, toxic environment? As we then ask our further questions, we are translating that low-resolution vague term into something more specific. And as we go from low resolution to high res resolution or low clarity to high clarity, we want to finish every time we summarize with the highest level of clarity that we've actually got. So, let me give you two examples. After Faith said the thing about toxic environment, not being trusted, blah blah blah. If you summarize that as saying, "Okay, so next time when you get in a role, you don't want to be in a toxic environment." How does Faith feel when you give that summary? It doesn't really make her feel anything cuz it's very low resolution. Instead, you take the higher level of clarity information that you've gathered and you always use that in your conversation. So, I would have said, "Got it." So, in your next role, you don't want to be in a toxic environment where your decisions are not trusted and you make a decision and then someone just goes back on it. Now, when I'm using the more detailed response, she's actually having to refill that feeling of that experience. It's like if at the end of the call when we do our big summary, we used phrases like, "Okay, got it. So, you know, the big reason you want executive coaching is you don't want to be in a toxic work environment." it doesn't really mean anything to her because it's so vague. It's so unspecific. You want to take all of the detail you've got and put it into the summary. So, I would say so you don't want to be in a toxic environment where you're not trusted. It's the not being trusted and making a decision and having someone revoke it that bothers her. But, so what you got to understand as you're going through the discovery is you gather the extra details of questions that gets more clarity and more clarity and more clarity. Don't waste your time gathering that detail and then go back up to a low-resolution response and just summarize it as low resolution. Does that make sense, Valentina?

Yes, that does make sense because then it's just repeating the the lack and the pain back versus just the surface level of the pain.

100% 100%. All right, keep going.

So, you don't want to be back in an environment where you're not trusted, where your choices are being questioned, and it's Hold on, let me take that back. Let me take that back. So, you don't want to be in an environment moving forward where you're not trusted and where your choices aren't being questioned. Is that correct?

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay. And as far as what you are seeing in terms of the flexibility of the market, what has your strategy looked like up until this point?

Yeah, I've just been, you know, going through Indeed and LinkedIn and the job postings that I am seeing, a lot of them seem like they're maybe a management role, but they're paying less than what I was making before. or if it is a job that's a step up, you know, I could see how many people have already applied to the job and, you know, I'm seeing 100 200 people applying to that position and um, you know, if I do get a chance to interview with them, like I know I'm going to have to take it regardless of what the work environment is. like I don't think I'm going to have the choice to sit here and and interview with multiple different people and then get my my choice because it's so hard to even get an interview in the first place.

Got it. So, right now you're mainly looking on Indeed, LinkedIn. You're seeing management roles paying less, but you're seeing that there's over 200 people that have applied for the roles that are paying more. You did say something. You you did just say that you would have to take it if a role came your way that didn't line up to what you're looking to get. Why do you feel like I'm getting stuck?

I'm getting stuck. That's all right. I think we know why she feels that she'd have to cuz she feels that her competitiveness is a lot less than it was in the past because the number of people that are applying for these roles that are even lower pay. Before we get into that, what I want to do with Faith, if I was to close her, is really compare what she doesn't want as far as the the uh whatever she calls it, comparabilities, and then what she's currently seeing as far as availabilities. So, how I've drawn it on my sheet of paper is kind of like this.

Do a whiteboard.

Whiteboard. All right. So, on my notes, I kind of drew like this, like a line on one side and a line on the other side. And so what does she not want? She doesn't want to be being questioned. In other words, the environment, specifically what she doesn't want is to be an environment where she's being questioned. She doesn't want an environment with lower pay. She wants an environment with the same pay or higher pay. The other thing is she doesn't want to be, and we haven't really specified this, but something about less than managing a team of 20. Something like that. So she it seems like she does want to be managing a team of 20 or more. I I'm not 100% clear on that. So I need to dive into that. And then she she wants to be I believe at manager level or above. So what I'm saying is I want to really divide on the left side and the right side. What are the things that she doesn't want versus what are the things she does want and then I'm going to dig into her current process. It just makes it much clearer for the prospect.

Okay. So, if I was to do that using questions, if I pull this whiteboard away, I'd say, "Okay, got it, Faith. So, you you want to be in a role where you're not being questioned. You mentioned uh in your previous role, it was a team of 20 people that you're managing. What do you want now as far as your ideal role regarding team or size of team things like that?"

I think ideal role would be, you know, between 20 and and 40.

It's okay. Less about the same. Yeah. It's less about the number of people, more so about, you know, in managing them, like one, am I going to make more money? I feel like I'm going to need a bigger team to make more money. And I also I also do want to have new experiences and be challenged in a way um so that it doesn't get, you know, boring either and I can continue progressing forward. And so I

Feel like managing a bigger team would maybe bring some some challenges that I haven't faced up to this point. Makes total sense.

Now, for anyone in the chat thinking, "Hang on, Josh just asked a future question." Yes, I need to ask a future question to go back into the present. So, watch this guys. Got it?

So, you want to find a role where whether it's 20 people all the way up to 40, ultimately you're going to be progressing, having new experiences, being challenged, and because you've got a same size or bigger team, you're going to be making more money. Is that correct? Correct.

What are you currently seeing as far as the roles that you think you could secure with the level of flexibility you have right now in terms of your current job search? Before you answer that, Faith, I had to get the future thing to go back into the present. Otherwise, I can't ask that question. So, I'm not digging into future pacing, guys, because I don't think that sells people very well. I just need to know, you know, what does she ideally want? So, I can then ask that relative to how her current job search is going. And then she's going to have to say something like, "Well, you know, the roles that I'm seeing, they they don't really seem very challenging. You know, they're smaller teams or, you know, I don't feel like they're going to be new experiences. When I read the job description, it's basically everything I've already done before." Okay, cool.

Now, when she's answering those things, that's putting her into pain. The the previous question doesn't put her into pain, but I need that data to go back into the present. Does that make sense, guys? Okay, cool. So, I would go from there, Valentina.

So, you want a bigger team so that you can make more money, and you also want to be in a role where you're challenged so that you don't get bored and you're progressing forward. Is that correct? Correct. Yeah. Now, what are you seeing in terms of your current job search with the opportunities out there?

Yeah, the the jobs that do have look like a similar job description, a similar size team around that 20 mark, they're they're offering less than I was making before. Anything that is looking like it might be a step up in terms of size or pay, those are the applications with a couple a couple hundred applicants and I have not been able to get a job interview with those listings.

So, with the listings where you do see that it lines up, but there's just an oversaturation of applicants, are you receiving any feedback as to why the interviews do not come in, or is it primarily generic responses?

Yeah, it's just been generic responses, I'm assuming, because there's so many applications to go through. I'm just getting kind of that generic email. Got it. Now, how long have you been looking?

I've been looking for the past six months. Wow. Okay. So, you've been looking for six months and in those six months, just to clarify, you have not had one interview.

I've had an interview for roles that are offering less than what I was making before. Nothing that I was wanting to accept because nothing was equal or a step above what I was doing before. Got it. So, what I'm understanding is it's been six months in terms of the interviews that you've gotten. It's for roles that are offering less and you've gotten no interviews for roles where you would be progressing forward now. How is that making you feel?

Yeah, I'm starting to get really nervous and, you know, anxious. I had enough, you know, savings to be able to take a couple months and really look for what I wanted in my head. I I would gave myself three months. I thought that would be plenty of time. And now that it's been six months, I'm, you know, dipping into money that I wasn't planning on dipping into. And now I'm starting to, you know, wonder if what I'm wanting is is even possible at this point or if I just need to take a take a step back just so I can start to make ends meet.

Appreciate you sharing that with me now that you're diving into your savings. I mean, how long do we really have here before you need to be in your new role?

I have about 50,000 left in, you know, liquid savings. Now, I do have investments and things like that, but to me, those are non-negotiables that I absolutely, you know, wouldn't dip into. So, you know, 50,000 left in savings, it's going to be enough where I do have some some more time, but it's not enough time where I'm feeling comfortable like I could go another six months like this.

So, you definitely cannot go another six months like this. You've got 50k left in liquid savings and you're not seeing the opportunity, you're not seeing the proper responses for the opportunity that you're looking to gain. I mean, how much longer are you willing to remain in that position?

So the question you're missing is so you're seeing all of these applications where there's hundreds of applications and it sounds like you don't feel that getting one of those jobs where you're not questioned, you make more money, you've got new experiences, challenge progressing. Sounds like you don't think those jobs as far as securing one of those is a possibility for you right now. Is that accurate, Faith?

Yeah, it's not seeming like a possibility. I mean if I think it was I think I wouldn't have gone six months. I think I would have found something already. Okay. Why do you think those roles are not possible for you right now?

The job market just seems so so saturated. Okay. Why does that matter? Why does that matter for you not being able to get the role?

Well, there's so many people applying and you know a a manager director role like I'm only 30 years old. I've I've only been in management for a couple years. I'm sure there's people that have a lot more experience than me that are applying to these roles.

Okay. So, you feel that the current level of experience that you're demonstrating in your application is less than a lot of the other competitors.

Yeah. Based on, you know, the my resume and how many years I've been at my past companies, I'm sure it doesn't compare. Okay. So, do you think there's a possibility for you to be able to secure one of these roles with a better resume?

Yeah, I'm just not sure how to like, you know, without being able to put a higher number of years on my resume and, you know, tell the truth about how many years I've been in my past roles, I don't know how to make my resume look like it would be better than maybe someone that's been in that role for 10 years already.

Well, one option is someone that's been in the role for 10 years. Another option is someone that's a professional curating a resume to make it look like your youthfulness is actually an advantage rather than a disadvantage. Does that make sense?

Yeah. I I mean I didn't really think of it that way, but it might be what I need at this point to fix that.

So o over the six months that you've been applying and you thought it was going to be three months, have you worked with any professional to curate your resume in a way where the level of experience you have and the other variables actually puts you at a competitive advantage?

No, I've just tried it on my own. I started with a similar, you know, template as what I was using before a couple years back and that was working totally fine at the time. and um I I talked to some you know acquaintances to see what they're doing and so I've made some of those adjustments on my own. So I have adjusted it but I haven't really worked with anyone. Okay. And where are you at now as far as wanting to continue trying things on your own?

I I don't want to continue to try anything on my own. I mean, at this point, I don't think what I'm doing on my own is is working. And so, I think I would just honestly stop just stop trying and and take a job rather than to continue to to try what I've been doing with no results. Okay.

So, you have kind of two options then in order to kind of move forward. One would be well move forward or or make a change. One would be go and get a job, just any job. Or option two would be to work with a professional that actually all day long all they do is work with people that feel like they're in a weak position as far as application for a job and put them in a place where they actually have the strongest or one of the strongest applications given that those are kind of your two options now which one of those are you leaning more towards?

Yeah, I think my last option before I just took a job would be to work with a professional and I think I would want to try that that option. It's definitely my last resort before I just gave up and took a job. Okay. And if you did, watch this, Valentina. If you did take a job and it was just one of the normal jobs, what level of salary do you feel confident you could get if you just went and took a normal job?

I think probably at most six figures, which would be a a significant pay cut at best. Six figures. Okay. How much of a pay cut would that be compared to if you did land one of these ideal roles?

I landed an ideal role. I if I landed somewhere around 150 to a $200,000 role, I mean, we're talking about a a50 to $100,000 difference. Okay. And just out of curiosity, let's say you went back into just a normal role. How would you get out of just that normal role and get into your ideal role?

I'd probably have to wait until things were in a better spot, the job market was less saturated or Okay. or things were were more settled. How long ago was it when you were applying for your jobs previously when you think things were less competitive?

Four years ago. Okay. So, four years ago. So the difference in salary would be somewhere between 50 and $100,000. And it would potentially be four years of you just staying in a normal role until maybe things become easier for you to get out of that role and get into a a role that you really want. So 50,000 100,000 will round it in the middle at 75,000. So, it sounds like, and correct me if you disagree with the maths here, that not giving this a true shot at getting one of these good roles, working with a professional, could basically cost you $300,000 over the next four years.

Yeah, I agree. I think it would take probably somewhere between Yeah. three to four years. Okay. So, 200,000 300,000 somewhere ballpark in that number. Yeah.

All right. Who here would have known how to do that? Because whatever Valentine's offer is, let's say it's 10K, we've now said it's a 10K investment for a shot, not a guarantee, but a shot at you being able to make $300,000 more. And I just took her own data. What is the job that you think you could get? 100,000. What is the job you'd like? 150 to 200. And then I said, okay, well, how would you get out of that job? And I just took her response. Well, I would just have to wait. Okay, how long? And she probably would have said, I don't know. So, I just jumped the gun and said, how long ago was it when you think the job market was easier? In other words, how long does she think the cycles are? 4 years. Okay. Well, 75,000* 4, 300,000. So now you've price anchored your offer as very very very small compared to what it would cost her to not give this a go and to just make the decision to go back to a normal job. Does that make sense Valentina?

Yes, that is the the best thing that I have ever seen. That was so so awesome. Um because because then there's no it just makes the investment seem like a no-brainer. like it's it's absolutely nothing compared to objection handling or or saying something like well the co what is the cost of not doing this like it just prevents that completely. So, wow. 100%.

And let's just say at the end of the call she says, "Oh, 10,000, you know, it's a lot of money." You say, "Yeah, it's a significant investment. If you don't want to do it, are you telling me that you're perfectly fine guaranteeing that you lose an extra $300,000 over the next four years?" I'm not guaranteeing her that she will get the $300,000, but what we are guaranteeing is that if she doesn't do this, she knows she's going to have to go back to a normal job. And the cost of that is an opportunity cost of 300,000. So even if they give you an objection at the end of the call, it's so easy to handle it because it's just like, okay, well, it is a significant investment. If you're telling me that you're perfectly fine going back to a normal job and losing that 300,000, then that's that's your choice, right?

And then and now once she's acknowledged how much money she's losing would I guess where I struggle is kind of what would be the next part of the discovery now would would it be time to move into kind of you know what stood out about us or like why us do that as well the the main the main thing that I want to dig more into which you were diving into when I jumped in was why now you know she's spending this money she's spending this savings how much of it has she spent

For someone that's got 50,000 in savings, unless her expenses are like 10 grand, 10 grand a month, which means she's only got 5 months, I don't think the main pain is going to be the fact that she's burning through the money. She's got 50 grand, she's probably spending three grand a month. It it sounds like, wow, that's, you know, it's still only 15 months, but it's not a burning problem. It's not a today problem. So, why does she want to actually get executive coaching help right now? What is actually bothering her? We haven't really got into that that pain. That will get you to the why now. So, I would get into that.

Why are you laughing? You could tell Josh you could tell Josh doesn't live in the US thinking expenses are only $3,000 a month. Why? What is that off?

I don't know, guys. My expenses are a bit more than that. Yeah, that's really off. But it's okay. That's too low. That's too low. Oh, way too low. Oh, sorry. Why she low? Oh, okay. Are you in the US now, Faith? Are you?

I've always I've always been in the US. Oh, I thought you were in the UK. No. Do I have an accent? I didn't really hear you had an American accent. No, I thought Oh, okay. No, but just for background info, I picked 50,000 because I was figuring like someone that makes probably like 150 in the US. Like if they had a a nice apartment, let's say like in a city like Philly or New York City or like Miami, like you're probably spending like 3K to 5K just on rent. So that's why I picked 50,000 because my expenses would probably be like around 7K, I would assume. So that would give me like six months left like I kind of had mentioned earlier.

Okay, perfect. Well, that changes context. But still, I still don't think that's going to be the burning problem because we did a role play yesterday and uh with Alex and the guy said that he he was playing a prospect said, "Oh, the reason it's a turning point for me now is I'm down to my last few thousand." That's different. Faith is not down to her last few thousand. She's still got 35 455 thou $50,000 left in the next few weeks. It's not a burning problem. So why now is she reaching out for executive coaching? I need to know that answer.

Could I ask in how long? Like in how long do you need to or when is your ideal timeline for being in your new role? And then when she tells me asking why I don't think the future pacing is a great way to sell her. No, it's still futuring. So jump in, see where we go. But the biggest thing missing right now is is the why now. the burning problem as to why now. Okay.

Right. So, you've been looking for six months and you're really only seeing roles where it's lower paying or the roles that you do want to be in, you're not receiving interviews for uh for those roles. How much longer are you looking to be in that position? And or let me take that back. How much longer are you looking to do this on your own?

Not any longer. I feel like I'm at this point where I'm would just give up doing it on my own. You you'll get you'll get that response from a nice prospect, but I don't think they mean it. They're just telling you what you want to hear. Okay, got it.

So, you've been you've been thinking this was going to take you 3 months. We're now or don't say we. You're now 6 month 6 months in and all of the roles that you're seeing available to you, you think are going to be roles where you make less money, you don't have new experiences, you don't get challenged, you're not progressing, potentially you're in a toxic environment where you're being questioned. And so what I'm curious about, Faith, is knowing that that's, you know, your current situation and and the reality is you would just have to go back and take a normal job, why now are you reaching out for executive coaching?

I'm just like tired of like I feel like I'm putting in so much work to do this and it's just not working and I'm just at a spot where, you know, if I keep doing the same thing that I'm doing, I don't think that the result is going to be any different at this point. Okay. When you say you're putting in so much work and it's not working, how much I guess we could say how many hours in the last week have you put into applying for roles?

I'm treating it like a full-time job. Like I I sit at my desk, you know, probably eight hours a day. Like I I'm treating it like a job. I sit down at 9:00 and I I look and I apply and I, you know, check out different things or try to make connections. then I I feel like I'm actively putting in the work.

Okay. So, you're spending like 40 hours a week doing this, but feeling like it's just not working because you're not seeing any of the any of the roles that you want. You just don't feel like you would be able to secure them.

Yeah. Are you applying for them? Yeah. Okay. What's the response?

I'm just getting like a generic email like you know we we've already chosen someone or you know we're not going with you like you know keep in touch in the future type of a thing. How many of those nos have you got from the roles that you want in the last 30 days?

Three or four. H how many have you applied for in the last 30 days? The I've applied for probably yeah like probably 10. Is that how many you're seeing that you like? What I'm trying to understand is you're only seeing 10 roles you like a month or or are you seeing 20 or 30, but 20 of them you just don't even bother applying for because you think you don't have a shot?

Yeah, there's like there's definitely roles out there like I'm seeing management roles or things like that that I feel like are are less than what I was making before. So, out of all the roles that I'm seeing, like I've only seen 10 in the past month that I would actually be interested in, um, because like I said, I feel like, you know, people are getting laid off and there's just not as much even available as there used to be. So, I'm I'm having a hard time even locating them in the first place.

Okay, let me just ask Valentina a question for the offer. If someone is seeing a very low volume of roles, is there anything that your team, the fulfillment team does to actually increase the amount of available options they're seeing?

Yes. So 70% of roles are not posted. That's what I thought. Okay. Yeah. So you're only seeing 30% of roles that are posted and then we facilitate we have like a datadriven approach in which now our clients are able to access those roles in the hidden market therefore increasing their opportunity.

Okay. The reason I ask is that when you start summarizing the problem for the prospect, we now have two problems. It sounds like you know the problem really faith for you getting a role where you aren't questioned, you make more money, you have experiences blah blah blah blah blah is is really twofold. Number one is you need more at bats. In other words, you need more role opportunities and on top of that you then need to have a higher what we would call conversion rate of those opportunities because you now have a a resume and an application that gives you a very high chance of being successful. So really to to put you in a position where it's highly likely that you do land your ideal role. It's not just increasing the performance of your resume. It's also increasing your inbound available opportunities and kind of doing both of those at the same time would give you the best shot. Does that make sense?

Yes. I just needed to know that you can help with both of those. Does that make sense, Valentina?

Yes. Yeah. Okay, cool. So, I would jump in from there for you because that that extra bit of information is very important as far as how many is she seeing, how many is she applying for, and then how many is she getting a response from? Plus, I would want to know what does she think is going on with all of the ones that she applied for that she didn't get a response from.

Oh, I think they've already decided no, but they just didn't tell me. Okay, cool. I need her to say that out loud because it's digging her more into the pain. Got it?

Sense. And then we're starting to get the data on, okay, you're working 40 hours. You're not seeing a very high number of opportunities. You're only seeing 10 in 30 days, which is two a week, basically, two and a half a week. You're applying for, you know, all the ones that you do see, but sorry, you're applying for some of the ones you do see, not getting a response or or getting a no. A lot of the ones that you do see, you're not applying for because you just know that your resume is not going to be successful. And now we can get into commitment which is so you've you've spent basically 40 hours per week times six months which is times 24. So 40 * 24 24 48 90. So you've spent 960 hours applying for roles and how much money have you spent? Okay, got it. So you spent 960 hours. You've dug in to $15,000 of your savings. There's an opportunity cost of $300,000 over the next four years. is if you don't figure this out, have you gotten to the point where you're done trying to figure this out on your own and you're just going to bury them in the data? Does that make sense, Valentina?

Whereas if you try and ask the why now before you've got like, as the as the underground mentor says, multiple legs to the chair, you'll just burn that question. That question just won't land for you.

Yes. And it's it's not asking it right. It's not asking it prematurely, but actually taking the time to just get deeper and deeper into because it's it's not only the time, but then you've got the opportunity cost. And I don't remember the last time that I got the opportunity cost, you know, it's it's um that makes total sense. Thank you.

You're very welcome. All right, jump back in from there and then let's wrap this up.

Well, yeah. So, so Faith, you're telling me that you spend, you know, 40 hours a week now for 6 months, which is 960 hours of applying. You've dug into 15K of your savings, leaving you with about 50k in liquid savings left, and there's an opportunity. Harold, be careful how you phrase things. You've spent 15k, so you have $35,000 left. doesn't doesn't sound doesn't sound very painful. And you you do need to keep a calculator on your desk, which is funny, but it would be better to say 15 out of 50. So, it'd be better to say you've you've spent $15,000 of your savings. So, you've already gone through 30% of your entire savings. Don't say you've got $35,000 left because then she's like, "Oh, things are fine. I've

Got I got 35k left. Not a big deal."

Yeah. Just be careful how you phrase things, because it it it just takes the pain away from the prospect if you phrase it upside down.

Absolutely. Well, and I thought it was 15K had left her now with 50K left, but still that's that's not a little amount.

So, okay, got it. Let me In my head it was going to be like 50k down, 50k left, but Josh just made up that my expenses were only 3K. So, in my head it was going to be like six months. I've already gone through 50k and I only have six months left before I run into the next 50k.

Oh, I'm okay. I missed the day. So, you had a 100k. Well, I don't think we never No one ever Yeah, I don't think we ever like I don't think that question was ever asked until you kind of just just made up that number. Then I tried to say like my expenses are more like 7k a month.

Okay, just to keep the numbers easy, let's say that you had $50,000 total in savings before and you've spent $15,000 over the last six months. So, you've got $35,000 left. But the point is, you would never say to the prospect, you've got 35 grand left. You would say, you've already gone through 30% of your entire savings, and how many interviews have you had?

Oh, zero. Right. Just just bury them in the truth of the the pain of their situation.

All right. Keep going back. I Okay. Yes. Let me take that back. So, you've been spending 40 hours a week applying now for 6 months. So, you have spent 960 hours applying. You've gone through 30% of your savings and how many interviews have you received for the roles that would make sense for you taking a step up?

It wouldn't it wouldn't sound right if you did that at I I I know I just did it, but I was just explaining that we would have needed to have had that piece of data. I should have been clear on that. It would sound really salesy if you tried to say that. It sounds like you're trying to intentionally bury them in the pain. we would have had to have got that data before and you would say so you spent 960 hours you've had not a single interview you've spent 30% of your savings blah blah blah blah blah you can't ask the question in the middle of the the summary but I I demonstrated that badly so just assume you have that data already okay okay so and and how many so then would I ask the question of how many interviews just to kind of let's just imagine you've already asked it before and we've you got that data and just imagine the answer is zero.

Now when you're summarizing, you're layering everything together. It's like if someone has spent 30% of their savings, could be bad, could be not that bad, depends how many interviews. If somebody has spent 30% of their savings and they've had some interviews, no interviews, could be bad. Depends how much time and effort they've put in. In other words, every time you have a piece of data and whether it's a good or a bad situation for the prospect, the answer could be it depends, you need to know what it depends on and get that data as well. So there's no more it depends. In other words, unequivocally the prospect situation is dog [ __ ] There can't be any room for interpretation. Like, well, to be honest, Faith, you spent 30% of your income, you know, and you haven't had any interviews, but you've only spent 10 minutes a week doing this. Then the prospect could kind of rationalize at the end of the call, it's not that bad because it's not that bad because I didn't put in time. It's not that bad because I haven't spent any of my money or it's not that bad because whatever the other one was, I can't remember. So you need to get all the data from every different direction so that there's just no questioning that she's in a bad situation.

Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense. And then would it be appropriate here to ask uh yeah like how much longer are you willing to be in a position where this is happening and kind of get into detail there again or are you willing to go six more months spending 960 hours? Would would it make sense to ask that question now that I've gathered that data?

I would just phrase it as a why now.

So, okay, so you've spent 960 hours, 30% of your income. You haven't had a single interview. You know, you're going to have to go back to a job which would lose you $300,000 over the next four months. I'm curious, you're you're reaching out now for executive coaching. Why now? What was the turning point on, you know, bang- on day, whatever it would be, you know, five five months, 3 weeks, and six days, what has changed? So, I would just phrase it as a why now.

Got it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And so, you've gone through 30% of your savings and there's an opportunity cost of $300,000. So, you're reaching out now for executive coaching. Out of curiosity, what's changed? You know, why are you reaching out today?

Yeah. It's just like I like you said, I have gone through through savings and I'm not getting the interviews that I want and I'm just at a point where like I don't even think it makes sense for me to keep trying the way I've been trying because I just don't think the results will be any different at this point.

Got it. Now, when did you get to a place where you realize that the results would no longer where the results would not be different from this point moving forward?

I would like I wouldn't It's a great question. I wouldn't say when, but you're asking the right question. Cuz the question that you're asking is, I still don't understand Faith. Why today all of a sudden you've now come to this epiphany that the results aren't going to change? So, you're asking the right question, but I wouldn't say when, cuz when is like, well, it was 2 and a half days ago or two weeks ago. I'd say, okay, why have you now realized, having been trying this for 6 months, that nothing's going to change unless you have outside help with your application?

Okay. Yeah. It's why have you now realized that? Why? Yeah. So, what has led to that realization is a is a slightly more calibrated way to ask the question.

Okay. So, you've been trying this for 6 months. You now realize if nothing changes, nothing changes. What led to that sudden realization or that moment of clarity?

Mhm. Oh, it was blank blank blank. Because remember, it's very rarely something inside of the process that led to a realization. It's something outside that led to the realization. Meaning, sorry to use a weird example here, Faith, but Faith just found out 2 days ago that she's pregnant. So now all of a sudden, the realization came. Nothing to do with the fact that she's been applying for 6 months and nothing changed 5 months ago or four months ago or 3 months ago. It's 90% of the time it's something outside that has changed something within the way they're dealing with their current process. So we need to know what what

Okay. Well, and and it's almost like a bit of confusion. It's like, well, you've been trying this for 6 months. You didn't have a single interview on month one, on month two, on month three, on month four, on month five. We're now on month six. What What shifted? You're almost I don't like you're almost saying I don't get it, but there's an element of your tonality that's like come on, I'm not that stupid. You're kind of saying that to the prospect in your vibe a little bit.

Okay, got it. Yeah. So, you've now realized that the results are not going to change. Why?

Oh, wait, no, no, no. I'm trying to decide which question. So you're basically saying why after six months of not having a single interview have you now come to the realization that nothing's going to change if nothing changes. It's a very direct question but you're asking why. Like you you you sell me Faith. You tell me why something's changed.

Yeah. So Faith, why now after six months on your own have you realized that nothing's going to change?

Yeah. I I know someone that they live in a different area than me, so it might be a little bit different, but um they were in a similar spot and you know, they were able to to find something after it did take them a little bit longer as well, but after four months they were able to find something. And so I'm just like, you know, okay, what am I doing wrong? if if someone else in the same situation as me was able to secure a new job and I'm not.

Okay. So, you've realized now that the actions that you've been taking for the last 6 months are not going to get you where you're looking to go.

Not quite. Think about what she just said. Someone else got the result that she wanted in 4 months. She has been taking 6 months and still not got the result. Therefore, she said she has now come to the conclusion I must be doing something wrong. That's what she said. She basically said, okay, so I would summarize it back to faith. So you really thought, if I'm understanding correctly, that you might be doing the right thing. It's just simply you need to spend more time. And then someone else got the result that you wanted basically in 30% less time than you and you've now realized maybe it's not time. I'm just simply doing something wrong because someone else got what I wanted in a lot less time.

Right. You notice slight difference in the way you're phrasing it. Yeah. What she's saying is that someone else got the result in less time and she's now like yeah, maybe I'm doing something wrong here. shouldn't be taking this long and someone else has actually got the result quicker which is yeah that's that's such a great way to I think it's freezing because she admitted that she was or she said I must be doing something wrong or I think that I'm doing something wrong so so then it would just be kind of summarizing her realization back to her and then and then what do you think you're doing wrong that meant that you still haven't figured this out and other people have figured it out and and notice a little thing that you can kind of nudge her with. In fact, I want to see if I can ask you guys this as a question. What is what is one of the objections that the prospect gave that we can now make the prospect face the mirror that that objection is [ __ ] based on what she just said? Anybody pick up on what it is? Why did Faith say that she's not being s well done, Jordan? And so what has what she just said told herself, the prospect? It's not the market, it's your process. Because someone else got a job in the same market in the same time as you applying for a job and you didn't get the job, the person you know got the job. And so if we really really really play like advanced advanced advanced level closing when I said that it was an outside thing that changed the prospect's why now it was that her own belief her own rationalization her own [ __ ] excuse got deleted when recently someone else in the same market got a job. Notice how as I've said guys it's inbound sales. the prospects already have all the [ __ ] answers going on in their life that you need to close them because it's inbound sales. You would be thinking, "Oh no, Faith has an objection. She thinks that it's the market. How the [ __ ] do I tell her it's not the market?" You don't tell her it's not the market. You keep digging and asking questions and she'll tell herself indirectly that it's not the market. Now, if if the prospect was being difficult or you felt that they weren't really taking ownership, you can just tell them straight, okay, so you've been applying for six months, you haven't had a single interview, and in 4 months, someone else not only must have had interviews, but they secured a role. So what is your current belief now around the market is too saturated? You could you could just put it straight back on the prospect if you feel that they need that level of directness. They might not. So it's not a hey write that question down and put that in my executive coaching sales script. It depends the prospect. It depends how the conversation's gone. But it's just an example of where I can either trust subtly that the prospect has handled their own objection or if I'm if I'm unsure if they've handled their own objection, I'll directly get them to handle it and I'll ask them the question directly.

Does that make sense, Valentina?

Yes. Because it's the it's the burning problem and then that it's their fault. 100%. And a lot of people that I'm on the call with blame the market. blame the market and then it could just simply be their actions like they're just completing the wrong actions which is exactly what Faith is doing right now but then that allows her to acknowledge that it's it's her not the job.

Okay. 100%. All right. Keep going from there.

Yeah. So, so you've realized that you are ask it as a question.

Mhm. So when So when you'd been applying for six months and you still haven't had a single interview and then someone else landed a role within four months, how did that make you feel or what did that make you think?

Mhm. Well, it made me think actually I guess it is possible.

Okay. So why hasn't it been possible for you? And we're just going to take it round full circle just asking it as a question.

Okay. Go from Yeah. So, when you've been applying for six months and you know someone that got a role in four months, why do you think that it hasn't worked for you?

I mean, obviously they they did something to stand out in, you know, among all the other people applying and I would assume that my resume is not standing out amongst the other 200 people that are applying for the role.

And now that you've realized that your resume isn't standing out and you've been in this position for six months, you know, how how has that made you feel?

Probably unnecessary. It's not going to kill the call, but it's probably unnecessary. Now, just tie it into why they want to work with you. See if you can do it using the language that Faith gave you.

Okay. So, now that you've realized that your resume hasn't been strong enough to generate these proper opportunities, you're you're using words that she didn't say. What was the word? Yeah, there you go, Jordan. Stand out. Okay, so just use that. Don't overthink. So, now that you've realized your resume isn't making you stand out, are you open to a new approach that will allow you to stand out in this market? It's not it's not a direct enough question, but you're on the right lines. Now that you've realized that the reason you haven't landed a role in six months and other people are landing roles in four months is because your resume just isn't standing out. I'm curious what attracted you to working with us to get you to stand out.

There you go. She's told you the problem. Her resume isn't standing out. Now notice the big shift, guys. What was the problem in the prospect's mind before the the oversaturation in the market? Correct. Through our questions, what has she now admitted is the problem? It's her it's her resume, her actions, the her strategy is wrong or what she's doing is wrong. Specifically, in what language from the prospect? What's wrong with that strategy? The resume. She's not standing out. Standing out. Okay. So through our questions, we've moved the prospect without objection handling, guys. Just, okay, so you've been doing this six months. You spent 960 hours. You thought you were doing it your way. What changed? Well, someone else did it in four months. Huh. Interesting. Why do you think they did it in four months and you haven't done it in six? Well, I guess they stand out. Oh, interesting. So, it's not the market, it's that you don't stand out. So, are you at the point now where you're no longer willing to keep spending 960 hours, 30% of your income every 6 months to not stand out?

How much longer are you willing to spend 30% of your savings, 960 hours every 6 months to not stand out? How much longer are you willing to not stand out knowing that it's going to cost you $300,000 over the next four years?

So, the how much longer question when you asked me before Valentina, should I use it now? It's like, no, because I don't know what I'm asking her. How much longer are you not willing to do? I I didn't know what was the thing that we're going to attach to the how much longer question. What is the problem when she's admitted an actual problem and a problem that we can solve? How much longer are you willing to not stand out knowing that it's an opportunity cost of $300,000 over the next four years and that it's costing you 960 hours of your own time and knowing that it's burning you through $7,000 a month and you've already gone through 30% or $15,000 of your money. How much longer are you willing to keep doing things your way, not standing out when you know that standing out is what's going to solve this problem?

Okay, cool. Why are we the people that you want to help you stand out? Why now are you committed to standing out? I needed to know those that paraphrase from the prospect standing out. I didn't know that 3 minutes ago. So, you can't ask your how much longer question because you don't know what you're saying. How much longer do you want to lose $300,000? Well, that's how much longer does she want to pay the cost or or have the consequence of of uh the situation. But that's not her choice. We don't control the consequences. We control the inputs. You can only ask someone, "How much longer do you want to stop doing something that you're in control of?" Just saying, "How much longer do you want to keep paying $300,000 every four years?" She's like, "Well, not any longer, but I'm not really sure how it's my fault or what I do about it." Once we find that she's admitted it's her fault, then we can ask the how much longer question because it's a legitimate question.

Is that clear for everyone?

Yes. That's pretty much it. If you'd have done that last bit and then asked the how much longer question and tied it into all the data, she she would be very silly to say no at the end of the call. And that's as far as you can go in a call, guys. You can't you can't guarantee you close someone. All you can do is build up. It's like a legal case. All you can do is build up the case for her to not buy. That if she chose to not buy, it would be like, you're you're literally not hinged correctly in your brain. That's as well as you can do it on a sales call, guys. It's going to cost you $300,000 over the next four years. There's a very simple solution. It's not the market. You just need to stand out. You've gone through 30% of your savings. You're going to have to go and do a job where you're not challenged, having new experiences, progressing, probably just going to be being questioned, which was a toxic environment where you were worn out before. And by the way, we didn't get into she said she was taking it home. We could have buried her in the pain of taking home the the being worn out as well. And then there was another one as far as what it was called. Oh, the 960 hours of time and effort. It's like if she decides to say no at that point, she can, but it would be crazy for her to say no. You want to build up that point to where it is literal absurdity for them to say no. And that is stacking the chair legs together on the pain, the consequence, the severity of the situation. And you then need to combine that with the ownership and the responsibility that it's their fault. It's not market saturation. It's that she doesn't stand out. And then if we if it was a really difficult prospect, we can tie it down even more and say, "Okay, so you need to stand out. You obviously don't stand out." which is why you haven't solved this problem. What have you done over the last 6 months to actually stand out? And her answer has to be nothing cuz she's been trying to do it all on her own. Do you think the people that did stand out, do you think they did something to stand out that was above and beyond just trying things on their own?

Yes. And then you can summarize the problem to the prospect. So it sounds like the problem Faith really is twofold. Number one is, you know, maybe you haven't really been been clear on it's not the market saturation, it's the fact that you don't stand out and it seems like you've only recently come to that realization when you saw that someone else solved this in four months and it took you six months. The other part of the problem is you haven't actually done anything to try and stand out. You've been just kind of doing what everybody else is doing, wanting to have a different result to everybody else, standing out, but you're just doing the same thing as everyone else, writing your resume yourself, applying for jobs yourself. So, you know, when I kind of summarize those two things, is that clear to you as far as the reason you're in this situation and will continue to be in this situation? Is up until recently, you were kind of just excusing it as the market and you haven't done anything outstanding to stand out. Is that fair to say?

Yes. Are you at the point now when you're no longer going to blame the market and you're also at the point where you're going to actually do something extraordinary to be able to stand out from the crowd?

Yes. Okay, cool. If it's a difficult prospect, why now? Okay, cool. Yeah. So, you just tie all that together, guys, and you'll close the deal.

Does that make sense, Valentina?

Yes, that makes um that makes a lot of sense. Also, I my Zoom just shut down for the first time ever. It's never happened, but I'm back. Um, but that does make that makes a lot of sense and it allows it you it's just before the pitch. What's mind-blowing to me is that this is before you even pitch and it's just at such a deep level to where they're going to feel dumb saying no in my opinion.

Exactly. Because after the pitch, anything that you say, no matter how true it is, is through the lens of the prospect's eyes of you're trying to close me. Before the pitch, if you deliver it in the right way, it's just I'm just trying to show you the truth. You can do whatever you want with the truth, but I have a responsibility to show you the facts and then you do with it whatever you want. I haven't even pitched you yet, so I'm really not invested either way.

No. Yeah. Faith, what was your takeaways being a prospect?

Yeah, I I have a couple. I would say um to start like um I think Valentina asked me like a would you question which is then I answered in the future. It just like made me realize that if the prospect isn't giving you an answer that you want, it's probably because you didn't ask the right question. And I know we talk about all the time how like the prospect isn't trained on how to properly act in a discovery. like I'm properly trained how to act in a discovery, but because she asked me a future question, I answered the f future question. So, it's kind of funny is like yeah, they don't know what to act, but it's at the same time like, you know, they're going to answer what you're asking them. So, that was definitely like something that stood out to me. I know we talk about like the data a lot, but that was like another thing I know was like minor, but just the fact that like, you know, we didn't get how much my expenses were. um like you know at towards the end like it would have been a big deal to not have that because that was another like leg on the chair that we wouldn't have have had and maybe it didn't seem super relevant at the beginning but you know if I have 50k left in savings it would really help us realize is how many more months do I have left and really what's the issue that we go after do we go after

My dwindling savings, or do we go after kind of something else in terms of just like where the conversation would go? So that was something that stuck out. Pause you there, one Faith, let me just show uh on the whiteboard something.

So I've always said you need you need the consequence or the pain, and you need the reason, which is the, you know, the uh ownership or the responsibility. So this is the pain or the consequence. So we can just usually reference that as dollars. It's also time, you know, it's a little clock, guys. Uh and then this is basically them, or in the first person, we would call it you. Something like that. Okay.

And so with this one, what we needed to get was the two things coming together in the middle. Uh, which would look like this. So the $300,000 plus the 960 hours, etc., etc. And then as Faith just said there, another leg to the chair that we can—That's a terrible chair. It should have been more like that—the legs to the chair. Another one that we could have got is if Faith is spending $7,000 a month, divide that by 30, it costs her $2—$233 a day to not fix this. But to not fix what, we need to know what we connect this to. And so you have to have part one and you have to have part two at the end of the call connected so that you can show the prospect it costs you $233 to what? To not [Music] stand out.

If we do not have this bit as well as this bit, you don't connect the two things in the middle in the prospect's mind. You can't say it costs you $233 a day. They're like, "Okay, but how do I fix it?" You need to be able to show them it is costing you $233 a day to not stand out. How much longer do you want to not stand out? And the simpler that you can bring these two things down into something very crystal clear, the simpler your final question, how much longer can be. I can literally just say, how much longer are you willing to not stand out after I've summarized what it's costing her?

So, you spent 960 hours. This is an opportunity cost of $300,000 for you over the next four months. Initially, you were blaming the market. Someone else solved this problem in four months, and you haven't solved it in six months. You've burnt through 30% of your savings. It's cost you $7,000. Uh it's costing you $7,000 a month, which every single day that you don't fix this, it's costing you $233. And the reason that this is happening is simply not the market. It's because you don't stand out. Is that fair to say, Faith? She says yes. And then you just finish with that. So how much longer are you willing to not stand out? And then there'll be an extremely awkward and uncomfortable silence after such a very, very simple closing question. Okay?

So you you you capture all of this in your summary, and then once you say, "Is that accurate?" Yes. "Anything that you want to add?" She says no. And then you just summarize. Not because this is the key, guys. How much longer do you want to pay $233 a day? Don't say that because that is not including ownership or responsibility; that result is as an output is not her choice. What is her choice is the input which leads to the output. So how much longer are you willing to not stand out? Because when you phrase that to the prospect, they're like, "Oh, that's my fault. That's my choice." If you just say this, they're just like, "Okay, well, you're just trying to bury me in pain, Mr. Closer. Mrs. Closer." And they won't like you; they'll feel like you're trying to sell them. You have to get this and you have to get this, which going back to what I've always said, guys, find all the data on the pain and the consequences, and then get clear on why it's happening and make sure that they're clear and admit why it's happening. Find those two things, connect them in the middle, and then ask them how much longer are they willing to do this. Does that make sense to everyone?

Alex, you your head has exploded. I don't know which Alex it is as well because there's two Alex's with the same color and just first name. So, I'm not sure which Alex it is. Anyway, Faith, sorry I cut you off. Did you have anything else you wanted to add?

Yeah, I think like what you just added to it is like was going to be my next thing is just like the the cost of an action. I like had two calls yesterday where I thought like 100% like they were going to sign up, and like they both gave me an objection as to why they weren't going to sign up right now. And I think it would come down to the fact that like I did not get the the cost of them them not acting today. Um so just sometimes I think it's kind of like I don't know how to do it in like a non-salesy way. So like going through that like helped me to understand how to do it in like a, you know, a genuine way without being like, "What's the cost of you not," you know, um how to like naturally get there if that makes sense.

And then which also ties into like when she was trying to ask me how much longer like the first couple times like I think like you had said the first time she wanted to ask it's like, "How much longer do you want to like not have a job?" Like obviously not—I don't want to have not have another job for any longer—like, but "How much longer do I want to not stand out because I'm not doing things right?" Definitely is a whole different question would actually like make you think and answer really cuz like obviously, you know, if you just—how much longer do you not want to be in pain for? Like it's just two totally different questions. And I could feel the difference when she was wanting to ask it prematurely. It was almost kind of like felt like a dumb question the first time versus at the end.

And then let me just add something to that as well because this is really important. I'm going to ask the same question with one very tiny shift. And I want you guys and girls to notice the importance of every single word that comes out of your mouth. Faith, "How much longer do you want to not stand out?" That's question one. Faith, "How much longer are you willing to not stand out?" How did—If you're playing the prospect, Faith, how do those two questions differ in how they make you feel?

I don't—the want, like of course I don't want to anymore, but willing makes it I have to take the action steps to not be willing to anymore. Like, you know, willing it's like it's going to be my choice. I I want—I don't want to, but willingness is going to come down to what I I choose to decide. If that makes sense.

Makes total sense. Now, if we actually watched Faith's response to how the different questions make her feel, when she said want, the immediate thing that comes up, which will come up for every prospect, is whether they're male or female, is like a sassiness. It's like, "Well, of course I don't want to." In other words, if you phrase the question in that way, it naturally brings up an objection. "Well, of course, I don't want to." It's almost like the prospect now starts to think of you as the closer as—are you stupid? And then it brings out this like not aggression per se but this kind of irrit—irritability of like, "Well, why are you asking me a stupid question?" And it's the same [ __ ] question, guys, with one difference in the question—willing versus want. So be very, very, very careful how you phrase questions. Okay, if you say, "How much longer do you want to keep not standing out?" they'll be like, "Well, I don't want to." And when they when they have that sassiness inside of them, you lose the sale because they're like, "Of course I don't want to." It's almost like they're now detached and they're disassociated from actually feeling the question and making a change in their choices because of the question.

So, when you ask that question, just to give you the the categoric way to phrase it, it's always willing or continue or ready. "Are you ready to stop not standing out?" Are you ready? Not "Do you want to not stand out?" Are you ready or you say willing? "How much longer are you willing to not stand out?" Or you say willing or continue or both of those words together. "How much longer are you willing to continue to not stand out?" Continue is not want or not want. It's a choice. Okay. So, it's always okay. "Are you ready to change that?" "Are you ready to change that?" That is a commitment question. That is not a desire question. A desire question is, "Do you want to stand out?" Yes, I want to stand out. Okay. Well, give me $10,000. No, I don't want to do that. It's not a commitment question. It's just a desire. Desire doesn't mean they're going to do anything. Ownership means someone's going to do something. Desire and ownership very, very, very different. I want to have a supercar. Okay? I'm no longer willing to be a broke [ __ ] that doesn't drive a supercar. Very, very different. Okay.

All right. Sorry, Faith. I cut you off again. Keep going.

Very good. I know I had a long list here. Last two. The the next one would be you making me recall a time when I felt the toxic environment. Like obviously I'm making up this story, and I had to like dig back into my brain for a story. And honestly, like my heart rate went up when I was like telling that story, even though it was like all fake, the feelings were real of like, you know, feeling like that. And I definitely could see the like how powerful that is specifically. Then just thinking back to like my calls over the the past week, you know, I had someone say like, "Oh, when I look at pictures, I don't I don't like the way I look." It's like, you know, "When's the last time you looked at a picture of yourself?" like that question would be so much more powerful because then I'd actually remember that. "Is is there any specific picture that you consciously avoid looking at? Where is that picture? How do you look in that picture? When was the last time you looked at it? How many times in the last week have you walked past it and consciously not looked at it? Knowing that you're walking past it consciously and not looking at it, you're obviously aware that that picture is on the mantle piece. How do you feel every time in the last week, 17 times when you've walked past that, not looking at it? Why do you feel that way?" I I could I could take one thing that a prospect says and bury them. And that is the ability to be able to ch—to manufacture questions, guys, versus the ability to read a script. You could throw me any piece of data, guys, and I could come up with a hundred questions, and therefore I can bury someone in anything at any point on a sales call. Script is—where am I in my script? [ __ ] What's the question? [ __ ] How should I phrase it? What's the little bracket on the question that tells me the tonality? You're cucked, guys. You're you're like this. You are literally in handcuffs with your ability to close people. If you learn to to be able to create questions, Faith can give me any example, and I'll be able to close someone. Okay? So, yeah, move away from this idea of which question, what time, when in my script, how do I phrase it, and just think, how do I develop curiosity and my ability to understand communication, and then you'll be able to have that ability. Okay, keep going, Faith.

And then the the last one was like I I said this a couple minutes ago before you had said it like for example two of the calls I had yesterday in my head like like you said you can't guarantee that someone's going to sign up, but in my head I'm like, okay, these people like I'm I'm 100% confident that they're going to they're going to move forward, and they they didn't. And like like you just said you can't guarantee that someone's going to sign up, but you said if they don't it's almost like there's something wrong with their brain; their brain is not functioning properly. And so like when you said that, it just made me think like, "Am I getting it to a point in the discovery where I'm like if this person doesn't sign up like they're the wiring in their brain is incorrect?" Like if I cannot say that then I'm I'm doing something wrong. If that makes sense.

Yep. 100%. Anything else?

No, that's it. All right. Valentina, did you have anything you wanted to add?

I mean, I think just what's really stuck out to me is the specificity in the questions that are asked that have everything to do with what the prospect said, which is why it can't be reading from a script. And then for me in specific and where I struggle is is the prospect taking ownership, right? And so this was just so so huge for me as well as of course other role plays that I've watched. But just compared to the last one that I did versus this one, it's like I'm now understanding really why that is extremely extremely important because then it allows for them to make a choice much quicker than if they are blaming outside factors and you're validating those those outside factors when it's really just their fault. So I'd say those are my biggest biggest takeaways from today.

Yeah. And that with this example, another way you could have done that as far as blaming the market is curiosity and detachment. So the prospect says, "I think it's the market." And you could have just been very curious and saturated and said, "Do you still think that?" And if she says yes, you say, "So if you think it's the market, how are you going to solve that?" And you're you're just you're like, "I'm not fixing this problem for you. You fix it." And that's the key. That's a key thing that differentiates master closers from sales script readers. Sales script readers are trying to close someone because they're like, "Well, I got my script, and if I ask the [ __ ] questions, it will close the deal." It's like, "No, it doesn't." And it doesn't also because your prospects can feel that you're trying to close them. If you're a master closer, you don't solve the problems for your prospect. If you want to believe it's the market, that's perfectly fine. Do you still believe that? Yes, I do. Okay. So, why are we on this call? Well, I thought you can fix the market. Unfortunately, I I can't actually do that. So, aside from thinking that we might be able to turn the tides of the market with some giant swing trade on [ __ ] Bitcoin, was there any other reason you turned up to this call? Well, I think maybe my CV could be improved. Oh, interesting. How much of it do you think is the market versus the fact that your CV is weak? Well, I think it's like 50/50. Okay. Is 50/50 enough for you to make an investment in outside help so that you can have the best shot possible at doing this? Yes. Why? Whatever the prospect says, I can make them sell themselves whatever they [ __ ] tell me because I'm just going to take them around in circles on my curiosity with complete detachment. Doesn't matter what they tell me. Oh, yeah. I think it's the market. Okay, cool. Why on the call? I'm just not trying to sell them. I'm just curious. Okay.

All right, guys and girls in the chat. Anybody have anything they want to come up and add? Put your hand up in the chat if you got something to add. The fact the market saturated is even more of a reason to need outside.

Yeah, exactly. The difference though, Alex, is you can't tell them that. If they're telling you the only issue is the market is saturated and there's nothing that's their own fault or responsibility, then they need to tell themselves and you that. Otherwise, you won't get anywhere in the call. Alex, the other Alex, Deario, Harrison, Ivan, and Jordan. Do any of you have anything you want to come up and add? If not, that's no worries. I will do a summary myself. I'll do all the work for you. I'm just kidding. And we'll bounce.

All right, Harrison. There we go. All right, brother. What have you got? How's it going?

Oh, new background. I like it.

Thank you. Thank you. So, great roleplay overall. It was really that last point that I was wrapping my head around when it comes to when Faith mentioned uh saturation early on the pro—early on the call. Immediately I thought to myself, it's probably the behavior of she's not standing out enough. What I was curious about at that point is why not go into that then rather than wait further. But in my eyes, I think you kind of explained it through just inputs plus outputs together. Ownership with the pain as well. Because even if you get into the behavior, even if you if you can't identify it—and let me know if I'm if I'm understanding this right—having them understand the output as well, it's not like you just skip the skip the outputs and go straight to the inputs. You still need both. Is that right?

Yeah. So the answer is yes. And meaning if when Faith had said it's the market, if I'd have just gone in on her at the market, I could have done it. I could have started with that and got her to tell me that it's not the market. It's this, it's that, blah blah blah blah blah. Or I can handle the pain and the consequences first. Because it's scriptless selling, I can go either way. However, however, usually it's better to get the pain and the consequence first because when people realize what it's costing them, their peripheral vision for seeing things in a new way all of a sudden is a little bit bigger. It's like, well, this is costing me $300,000. and and in their brain they start thinking, I wonder if there is anything that I could do to fix this because they're seeing the value of having to to look at things with a broader perspective. But I could have just gone in on her and been like, "Okay, so you think it's the market. Anything else?" No. 100% it's just the market. Is there anyone that's got a job in this market? Yes. Are they the jobs that you want? Yes. So how are they getting it, but you're not? I could have just gone that way, but in general, better to get the reason for them to look at things in a different way first because it makes it easier for you. It's like it's kind of like saying, "Can I go to the gym when I'm tired?" Yes, you can go, but it's going to be harder for you. But if it's scriptless selling, you can definitely go to the gym when you're tired, or you can go to the gym when you're not tired. You can do it either way. There's just an easier way to do it, which is get them to see the pain and the consequence first. If it's a script, if it was like a scripted personal trainer, he'd be like, "No, no, no. You have to get 12 hours of sleep and you have to eat your Cheerios or we can't train today." That's script. It's like there's a [ __ ] fixed way to do everything. It's like, if you want to live life like that, guys, you can, but it's a very boring way to live, and it's not going to make you as much money. It's better to have flexibility. If you wake up one, like if you're in the call and the prospect said it's it's the um the market and you just go into it, and then while you're asking questions, you're like, "Fuck, I should have done it the other way." If you've trained in scriptless selling, it doesn't matter. You just keep going the direction you're going, and you just come back around later. Whereas, if all you know is how to have a script, which is why scripted closers make less money, if the prospect goes off in a different direction, they're like, "Fuck, where do I go now?" because they don't know what to do. They're like, "Oh [ __ ] let me just try turning the script upside down," and they're like this, and they're like, "Fuck, I'm screwed." And they don't know what to do. Does that make sense?

Yeah. 100%. Just makes you makes you realize like when you're studying like don't just focus on if this is like the one path to go. Just know it's another avenue.

100%. Know the philosophy. I need enough pain, enough severity, enough consequence that the prospect is like, "Shit, this is a big deal," and I need enough ownership and responsibility that they're like, "It's my fault that I've chosen to be in this position, and it will continue to be my fault if I choose to do nothing about it." If you get both of those things through questions, through your energy, through your pre-call checklist, through the fact that you care enough about the prospect, therefore you need to have a goal that you're hoping to buy the Ferrari or whatever. Otherwise, you'll be on a call, prospect will be a little bit closed off, and you'll be like, "Oh, I can't really be bothered. It's not really that big a deal if I lose the call anyway." You need all of these things together so that then when it comes to game time, showtime, and you're on the call, you just do what you need to do. You just perform. You just ask your questions. You've got the right energy. You know that you need to be on the call because you've got goals. You got things that you're working towards. You've developed the right values. You've had your morning routine. You're doing all of that. And when it comes to game time, you're just almost unconsciously doing what you need to do. Make sense?

It's why we've been on so many role plays, and Ivan pointed out today where my facial expressions, they're just genuinely my facial expressions cuz I'm actually in the moment. I'm like, "Wow, that doesn't make sense. I'm confused." So, my facial expressions will just be natural. And another thing is we'll be on role plays, and people that are playing the prospects start crying. We're like, "Guys, it's not even a real call. Why are you crying?" Right? It's because it's that real for me. When it comes to showtime, I just perform because I'm doing all of the stuff before it's game time so that when it comes to performing, it's just unconscious. Okay.

Great stuff, Harrison. Do you have anything else you want to add?

No, that's it. Great role play though. This is awesome.

Thank you, guys. It's our pleasure, guys. Does anybody else want to come up? Does anybody else have anything they want to add? Alex, there we go. All righty. The question is, which Jimmy, car me.

Yeah, what's going on, brother?

Hey, doing very well, Josh. Uh, I got over here late. I had a call before, but I believe I got into, you know, right at the best part of the call. And that's something that I feel um you have you do different than other people. That's also empowering for the person, which is actually that ownership part. I'm trying to wrap my head around it. I don't know how to do it yet. That's fine. I'll I'll get it when it comes down to the training. But overall now I see how how it connects cuz sure connect, you know, connecting the dots gathering the data that's that's much more simpler also like internally now when you got to challenge the per—challenge the person and actually hold their feet to the fire that's when but but that's what where actual true change can happen and them actually realizing this is their own—it's within their control. So that's the biggest part for me and also just the difference between yeah that desire that I want or that ownership what I'm willing to do to get it.

Yeah, nice takeaways, brother. Excellent stuff. Anybody else want to come up? Anybody else got any takeaways you want to add? Jordan, Ivan, Deario, the other Alex. I think it's one Alex now, actually.

All right, guys. If nobody else, let me summarize this and then we'll head off.

All right, that is another high-ticket sales role play. As usual, we've gone pretty deep into what it takes to become a master closer and to make the money that will allow you to live the life that you truly want to live. Let's go through some of the takeaways. So, how you ask your questions determines the response. It's

Not just changing your script or having a better script. It's being able to take any question that needs to be asked to challenge the prospect to close the deal and know all of the different ways you can change the way you phrase the question to make it more powerful or to make it more appropriate. If you don't train on that, you are severely limited in the tools that you have in your tool belt.

Next one was data gathering. We talk about this on every single role play. If you are just following your scripted questions, you are never going to be digging deep enough into all of the variables of the data. And it is the data that builds the pain, builds the consequence. It's not consequence questions randomly at the end of the call. It's the actual facts and the figures and the brass tax that build that pain. So, you need to master data gathering if you want to get any prospect to a place where you could potentially close them.

Next one is pain and ownership. I've talked about the data gathering and how you need to gather the pain. You must combine that with gathering the ownership as well. Otherwise, you'll get a prospect that says, "I know it's bad. I know I need to do something about it." But they don't feel empowered like it's their choice at the end of the call to do something about it right now. Key thing for developing ownership is being the person that takes ownership over your own life. Otherwise, you'll feel too uncomfortable to challenge someone to take ownership. So, you just won't do it. Or you deliver that question and your prospects feel that something's off because you don't have true conviction or true congruence. If you want to always be able to challenge a prospect to take ownership and be able to land those questions in the right way that the prospect picks up what you're putting down, you have to take control and ownership over your own life, over the results that you truly want to be getting.

Next one is the cost of inaction. It's not a cost of action question. It always comes from the data. Cost of inaction very very commonly talked about in sales but very very misunderstood. Everything that you misunderstand in sales or in life has a consequence that you are paying the price of that you probably aren't even aware you're paying the price of. So if you don't truly understand how to nail the cost of inaction, then I guarantee that you're paying the price of that in your sales and in your commissions at the end of the month.

Next one was willing versus want. Again, different phrases for different questions. I'll leave that there. It's very simple. You can go back and watch the call if you want to dive deeper into that.

Premature questions. When you ask a question, even if it's the best question, the right question, but you ask it at the wrong time, you will lose the ability to land that question. You will lose the merit of you even asking the question. If you're following scripts, you will never understand the ability to have an intuitive feel on the timing of questions. I gave the example to Valentina where it was just too early to ask a certain question. I didn't have what I needed. If all you're using is scripts, you will never develop that ability to truly understand communication and when you ask certain things and when you shouldn't be asking certain things.

Next one was getting into people's real life examples. Same thing again. If you're using scripts and you're probing and you're clarifying, but you don't actually go into the examples, that is because you don't know when you need to do that because all you've been trained on and practicing is following a script. The moment you ditch the script and you start to tune into a prospect, you'll develop the ability to know when you haven't gone deep enough. That ability will never come. You'll never develop it until the day that you ditch the script.

Next one is, if I can read my writing. Oh yeah, creating questions versus training on a script. We had a very brief example at the end of the call there where Faith just threw out an example from one of her sales calls. And I can come up with an infinite number of questions because I never trained on how to memorize word tracks or memorize scripts. I trained on how to have curiosity, detachment, and mastery over communication, which a big part of communication is simply the ability to ask questions. If you want to have that ability, same thing again. I'll keep saying the same thing over and over until you finally get it. Ditch the script and focus on scriptless selling and you'll develop the ability to have mastery over communication. And if you master communication, you can truly help a lot of people and that will allow you to make the money that you want to make.

Final one was the prospects have all of the answers. All of the answers to their pain and all of the answers to their ownership. This is inbound sales, guys. You do not have to work as hard as you need to work. You're working overly hard because you're going against the grain of what truly closes people. Being authentic, having a real conversation, and being someone worth investing in. If you are not the type of person that is doing the inner work, doing the investing in yourself, pushing yourself to the next level, and you try and tell someone on a call that they need to do those things, doesn't matter how good your word tracks are or how good your scripts are, that incongruence, that lack of authenticity will be felt by the prospect and they'll give you any reason, whether it's a smoke screen or a normal objection, to not buy from you. Not because you didn't say the right things, but because you're not the right person.

If you don't want to have that result and you don't want to be not making the money that you want to make, then you have two options. Underneath this video will be the rest of my YouTube channel. You can continue watching free content if you want to keep watching free content. If you're still confused about scriptless selling, internal mastery, my story, going to the next level, and what it truly means to be a master closer, then just watch more free content. But for those of you that are actually ready to commit to going to the next level, or as we would say, not wanting to go to the next level, but how much longer are you willing to not be at the next level, then underneath this video is a link to join the unicorn closer mastermind. That is for those who are no longer willing to settle for being average, for being middle of the road and being stuck as someone that is not truly living the life of your dreams. If you are not willing to stay in that position any longer, then show up as the prospect that you want to find on your calls and take action right now and click the link and I'll see you on the side.