Transcription
[Music] This is a milk a couple session words Bill and Leslie. Before I go into a session, I'd like to say a little bit about what to look for. As you may know, the solution-focused approach is very much into building solutions. We make a distinction between building solutions and problem-solving because we have found over the years that problem-solving activities are very different than problem-solving. Then our solution-building activities that what one engages in in solution building is very much about the future focus, that what they new need to do differently in order to find the solutions. Also, that the second point I'd like to make is that there seems to be no connection between the presenting complaint and presenting problem and the solutions to them. I believe that you will watch how this will manifest clinically. The third point is the therapist's posture is there of not knowing. Harry Coalition and Harlan Anderson's term, that is that therapist not knowing posture that takes and that is that there is not an expert, but the client is the expert to their problems and to their solutions. And so the therapist's therapeutic task then is through the conversation, how to figure out what to what they need to do in order to generate the solutions there. There is consistent with their vision of their ideas about what will be satisfactory life for them.
Let me come back a little bit about the couple. Leslie and Bill had been married about seven years and they have two children, ages five and three. Bill also has another child from a previous marriage, but he rarely sees this child, even though he makes child support payments. Bill is an attorney looking for modular homes, and Leslie is a consumer service director of a consumer services for a large telephone company. And as you watch, I would like you to pay attention to how closely they are as follows the clients' ideas of what their solutions are.
I understand Bill, you are working where? What kind of job do you understand the big money is? We don't see any in the next few years. Yeah, I'll be up to a fairly decent income. Right now, I'm trying to to build up. He tries very hard. He sees so many people in terms of building up that client down. Yeah, he's trying very hard. Hmm. Is he good? Is he good interest and - after what it's doing well? You probably should ask some of the ladies that he sees so much, you know what I mean? Those clients. Excuse me, those are his clients. Yeah, but he's out every evening, so I guess he must be good. Um, I'm in the stages of trying to develop a partnership, but I'd love to be a partner in this firm, so I spend a lot of hours, a lot of clients, and a lot of them are women. A lot of women are in corporate America today, which is really our problem, as part of our problem because I know that you have to spend time at work. He spends an awful lot of time out of the house, so that I have the primary responsibility for our children. My question and my concern is, and that's one reason that I wanted us to come here, so that maybe you're talking, he could come to understand that he has some responsibilities too, and they don't include spending evenings out talking to women who are not always your clients. This just let me come back to this. I'm gonna come back to that.
What about you? I work too, and I haven't worked, and I have to be out of the house a lot. I work for Central Telephone Communications, and I'm the director of customer service. They, that needless to say, requires a lot of time and effort, and plus with our little children, and we're not doing it. That's exactly what's that. At least I'm doing the best that I can. I work on the average of 70 hours a week, and I went close to that out of the house, and then it doesn't include the time in the house. I have a primary responsibility of doing the housework, to shopping, and you shop very small. They're very right. Yes, and I actually take responsibility for Bill's son by his first marriage, Bill Jr. Occasion. I mean, when is the last time that you went to pick up Bill Jr. and took him back home? How long have you been together? So, sounds like you're both not feeling very frustrated. You know, I mean, she has zero understanding about what's going on. It makes that very difficult. That's right. That's always me. I have the zero understanding. He understands it all. She understands it all. That's that's the problem, right? You know, he, I don't think he is frustrated. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for me making an appointment. I think he's happy that it just goes on and on, and I just worked myself. You know, I mean, we should be able as two adults to just sit down and talk about our prime. Well, let's do it. It just goes on and on and on, and I don't come up with some kind of understanding of what his responsibilities are. And in these sessions, sessions, he could really hear what I am saying because at home, he really doesn't listen. And therefore, he could change his behavior so that we could be as we were earlier in the marriage, you know, listening to one another and communicating. If we can come out of this with some ground-level communication, I don't think that it has been successful. But I mean, you know, we just have a problem being able to talk.
Let me come back to this. You mentioned Bill, I appreciate him as a provider, right? You know, I appreciate him as a husband. I do love him. I know he does work hard. You do? Yes, I do. Okay. When he is more responsible, what would he be doing? He's not. He will take responsibility more for our children. He will take more responsibility for his own son, whom I love very much. He will take responsibility to include me and have respect for me. Keep me as activities and have respect for me. It hurts me to be out and hear my friends talk about his his girlfriends that they see. Okay. And you come back to this. In 70 hours a week, you know, it's really difficult. Okay. All right. Hold on. I'm gonna come back to you. In that, what should Bill be doing exactly? They will let you know around the house, what's the children, with his son, and what would be doing? He's not doing right now. It would let you know right now. I'm always reading the bedtime stories because he's out doing whatever. Yes, especially on the weekends when you don't have to carry the load that you carry during the week. I would like some help around the house. You think said I don't know. Still, 10 made it feels like I don't be when all the cleaning, I'm doing all the washing and ironing, and I'm doing all the cooking. He doesn't. The children. He's never home. He would need help him. He would be planning. We could hire somebody. Some reason the money around the kids. We don't have the money. I'm gonna come back to you in there. So he will be reading bedtime stories. Yes. He will be doing what else? He would be helping with the shopping. He will be helping with household. What dishes? Yes. You could help once in a while. Once in a while. I'm gonna be frank. If I work 70 hours a week, I do not have time to wash dishes. Okay. Slow down a little bit because I need to know how helpful to you. Okay. I need to know from both of you what needs to happen. So let me come back to this. What would it be doing different? Let's say three months from now, six months down the road. I think even though it's important that he is building the partnership, and I realize it takes time, and I tried my supporter, he also has to build a relationship at home. We have little ones that don't even know you. So what would he be doing? He would be communicating more with me. He would be taking an active, making taking an active role with our children. Our children, he is just someone who comes in the morning and leaves. I mean, they don't even have a concept of who you are, and I think that's a shame. I'm assuming you want to. Yes, you do. Does she know how much you're nothing? She should. She should. I mean, you know, yeah. What do you think? You know, we've been together for seven years. I love them. I haven't left her. I wouldn't leave. This is my wife. I love her. I love my children as well. You know, the thing is, she has when I wear mine. In a way, here's the thing. I figured that my children are three and five years old. Please. I figured that they're three and five years old that if I put in these hours now, when they are older, and they'll be able to appreciate me more, that I will then have more time to spend. That's that's the principle that I'm operating on. I just, I mean, I have an option here. Either I can stay at home and wash dishes, or I can spend 70 hours a week trying to build up this practice so that as an eventuality, you don't even have to work. And you don't seem to have any. I'm trying to secure a future, not just for myself, but for all. If his unbalanced right now, if she needs to do more at home, and I need to do more away from home, she needs to be able to understand it. You need to be able to work with me on this, okay? I mean, we have a seven-year investment. As an eventuality, I, you know, I mean, we're going to be together. So all I'm saying is she should be able to do most of the stuff at home. Okay. Let me work these. It's like I'm working two jobs right now. Let me work these two jobs and within a year, okay?
Let me ask, I'm going to ask you some very strange questions. It will take some imagination. Do you boys have a good imagination? Yeah. You try. Okay. She does. All right. Here comes. Let's say as a result of the miracle, you believe in miracles? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So as a result of that, the problem they brought you here today, but this miracle happens to happen tonight. So you don't know that this has happened. So when you wake up tomorrow morning, what would be the first small clue to you? Wow, something must have happened. The problem is gone. How will you discover this? Smile. First thing in the morning. Avoidance. You smiled at Leslie. He would put his arm around you. Put you on. Okay. Final America. All right. So suppose he does. What would you do in response to? Okay. Is that right? Is that what she would do? Would that be a miracle? Fear. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So when she turns her back towards you instead, I mean, so she's facing you. When you smile at her, she'll face you instead of turning her back toward you. What will you do when you see her do that? So you'll give her a hug. Yeah. What about you, nicely? What will you do when it gives you a hug? Well, he asked me. I put him back. Uh-huh. Okay. Okay. What will come after that? A morning like a lot. I take care of the kids. I bury myself in my job. I'm not married to my job. Well, I married to him, and my job is important. My children are precious to me, but I want the whole thing. Right. You want this relationship, right? I know won't always be, you know, pizzas and cream, but it's not supposed to be, you know. Okay. So let me come back to this. Tomorrow morning, what, when the children though? I'm gonna see the two of you tomorrow morning. What would they see different about the two of you that would tell them, "Wow, something happened to mine and dad"? I mean, you think at all. I realize they were young, and they may not be able to have the right words for it. Well, if they could talk, I don't know. Something is going on because he always asks me, "Why you and daddy?" I was yelling at each other. You know, I tell him not to yell at his little sister, and he, and I said, "Everything told you this," and then he says, he says to me, "Well, you know, you and daddy are always yelling. Why do you always tell me not to?" Yeah. See. What do I say? So what would you notice different about the two of you tomorrow morning? [Music] Kids seeing us embrace. They finally remembered. So he may see the two of you embracing. What else would go somewhere? You need the family of four, all four of you will go somewhere, right? Someplace. I'm not. Yeah. Someplace where we're not just dropping them off on the way to work, you know, just all of us being in the same space. Okay. Not getting ready to go to the babysitter's or daycare, and not getting ready to go to bed. I mean, we don't. Well, I'm not sure this is realistic or not, but suppose you do. How would Leslie be different with you? What would she do? You know, she'd be shielded, warm up with you. We'd get along better. About this getting along well. What we know is that that that if we have to sacrifice one, yeah, you know, I mean, we could, we could, you know, I mean, if we don't, if we just try to get along, we could get along. But if we have to get along at the cost of me suddenly, you know, not giving the time that I need to give to my job as a virtuality, it's gonna affect us financially, and I'm trying to look out for our future, and I think that we have to invest some time in back in order to, you know, to make the whole thing. I love our children, and I love you, you know, but I'm trying to build some money and doing better financially. That doesn't require you to be out of the house 70 hours a week and meeting with these female clients, clients in quotes. Okay. You have to do so because if you were home every night, you were in hours a week, if you're out, utilities reliance all the time, we would still have a problem. It's not what has the come first in order to do whatever you would like to see happen with you know, two of you. What might be the first four small step there help you move toward that? What you like to see happen? Sounds like we're honest. What would it take? Knowing Leslie as well as you do, what would it take for her to believe you that you are being honest? I don't know. What would it take? I mean, I'm willing to try. Oh, you are. What would it take? We would help you. A call if you would let me know about what time you're gonna come home. Uh-huh. It would let. I don't need to know every client if you're gonna meet, but I would like to be included in your life in a way that I think is respectful. That's what you really want, isn't it? Okay. I'll call. I can do that. That's not unreasonable. Okay. And sometimes I get caught up in two rows of business. Well, I just said I would call. What, what was she do? Not what could I do? What could she do? Isn't that the question? Okay. I'm already doing as much and more than my share. I just said I can't eat. Leslie, I haven't been calling. Okay. I admit to that. I talk to that. I don't call regularly. When I'm late, I just assume, you know, I'll stop. I'll take the effort to call. Okay. Would that help? Do you think I did help? You gonna do it because you think it's gonna help? Was it's just just appeasement? Because then I'm gonna hear it later in an argument. You got your card in it. It hasn't even happened. Okay. Please don't do that. No. Let me come back to you. What can, what can, what do you need so that you feel the fiat Bill understand how hard you were working to make this marriage work? Let's make this family go. What, what do you need from them? I need some support from Bill. I mean, I, I worked, I worked more than eight hours a day also, and then I come home. I, I mentioned that I needed him to take more responsibility with childcare arrangements, everything, doctor's appointments, you know, visits, you know, shoes, clothes. Oh, he doesn't even ask me any questions about how you asked. You come in and say, "I to kids." If you know, sometimes you're not even listening. You walk asking, "Been in a train wreck?" You wouldn't even hear it. So he's asking and being concerned. Some, hey, that's what you want, man. Is function? That I don't hear. I mean, if I did more than know, I wouldn't ask kids are. But I, one day I think I'll try that. That's not common courtesy. These are my children. I wouldn't come in the house. See, I'm a female. I wouldn't come in the house without asking how the kids. I mean, I, perlier in the marriage. Well, right about now. Well, if you absolutely honest out, I don't think he particularly finds me attractive. This and I feel. I don't think. I think that what's that saying is sometimes I feel it's just he thinks it's cheaper to keep keep her, you know, that's the same. Yeah. I'm sorry. I do feel that way sometimes because you're not home. I have felt that you had other romantic sexual interests. Nothing's happening in our bed, you know, so you're very concerned about this. Something you're very concerned about. It's not a marriage. Yeah. We saw it sort of like a roommate that we argue when we argue, and we have to have some children together. Well, I know, and it's too inconvenient to move. You really want to change them? It's going to have to change, or else I am going to be someplace else. So you know what you don't want that. Okay.
Let me ask you another strange question. I have lots of these strange questions. Okay. Let's say on sort of a scale of one to ten, ten stands for as things right now, and you know what you've been through, the two of you, know what you've been through, you know what the issues, and you know what these shoes are hard, better than I do right now. Let's say ten stands for there you will do just about anything humanly possible to make this marriage work. Yes, that's what happened. Okay. And one stands for you're ready to throw in the towel and you're ready to walk away from this. We would you each of you say you're at on a scale of 1 to 10? Answer honestly. Well, past year, so I think I've been out of town quite frankly. But the way I'm feeling now, I'm probably, let's put it this way. I've talked to a lawyer. I've got a lawyer, and I'm probably, I'm just inquire about what my rights would be. I'm probably about five. I'm in the middle somewhere. Yeah. I don't want it to go to the one, but yeah. What do you want? No, no. I'm good. I have another set of a numbers question here. Knowing how things are right now that you know to have you, let's say punch that's cool. You have every confidence that this marriage is gonna survive. Okay. Ten stands with that, but this marriage is every chance of making it. And one stands for, you know, it's just the opposite of that. There's no chance this measure is gonna make it. What would you say? Thanks for add right now, probably worked at it. I could say would be more than a five. Really, if you see a lot of potential in this. Well, we do love each other, and what doesn't sound like it, but I think we do. You do? I know I does. He knows this. Bill knows how much you love it. He ought to. Your - you think he does too? You're talking about the lawyer. That guy's man, oh man. I didn't see one of your coworkers. Uh-huh. How about for you? I'm just, don't just try that. You know, what would you say the chances of this marriage making it? I would really say hey, because, you know, I mean, I want this. Hmm. Try to make it, you know, I mean, we have to find some kind of way to compromise because I'm just not, you know, I mean, I didn't go through undergrad and and law school and, you know, carrying letters and all and working in the mail, all that [ __ ] just to now suddenly, you know, chuck it all the way. I mean, you can't just live off yourself. You know.
What would it take? Do you think for this chances from your point of view, Leslie? What would it, what would it take for you to go from five to six? So you can say it's just a little bit better. It's not perfect yet. It's not that all the way up to ten, but it's just a little bit better. What has to happen between the two of you so that you can say that to yourself and do it? No. Yeah. And if we could just make some effort, I would recognize it. What's trying to share some of the responsibilities? I know it has to work. Yeah. And, yeah, I could feel so calling would help you a little bit. I mean, I don't know. Maybe if he could help me sometimes. I don't know. She like she could hug me sometimes. Be your life away. Okay. That would help. Oh, sir. Mm-hmm. No. What would that mean? What does that mean? How would it help? He's hugging you and calling you, and I don't understand it. How would it be helpful for her? Because for me, first of all, he doesn't believe about to worry about him. It can be dangerous out of hearing. And - I, I could, we could talk just about what his day has been like. I would know what time he was gonna come home. Maybe I would sit up, and we could have a, you know, a late dinner together. No, I sometimes I sit up, and I don't know what time is. You know, I just fall asleep, and then he comes in, and I have the next thing I know, he's in the bed, but then he's asleep. So some more personal private time together, right? They can't still go to bed relatively early, and I'm just, you know, doing some paperwork, or I end up watching TV. You know, what time is coming about? It'll be helpful for you having those kind of private times. That those private time, and it was something I looked forward to, you know, I mean, we he was working, was you know, working then long hours, but that was our special time. And no, you know, we talked. I mean, I knew people at his office before, not always personally, but because we talked about those things, and I've talked about my problems at the job. I just talked to my mother now, you know, about anything. She knows more about what's happening at the company than you. I mean, you know, because you know, mask you doesn't like, but I said, what happens when you have this private time? They're talking about what it stays for like, what his work is like, and he also asks you about what your what your days been like. And having this time without the children. Mm-hmm. In that would, what, how would it be helpful? It was close. It was our time, you know, your your husband is your main confidant, and we would have that relationship. And then remember times we would even go to bed and make love. That's what you're looking for. Those some special moments. Was Bill, do you feel close to, and you feel like he's your confidante? Okay. Did you like those? I mean, I thought I look forward to it. I mean, no matter how bad the day was, I could look forward to at some point, you know, the salad or whatever. You've got a glass of wine.
Suppose Leslie believes you that you are working when you're not home, that you're working. How would that be helpful for you to know that she believes you? Well, you know, I mean, believe it or not, this stuff bothers me as well. I can't go off and work knowing, you know, and that's, you know, I mean, that's some of why I just don't call because if I call, we won't get on getting to get in an argument about where I'm coming, what am I doing, who am I with, and all that third degree. And I'm trying to be in the middle of taking care of business. I can't function, okay? You know, I can't take care of my business. So she believes you, put my mind at ease, make it easier for me to take care of what I need to take care of. And, and some things that might take two meetings that might be able to get done anymore. Okay. So you're saying you're willing to at least try them. I said, you know, is there something that Leslie can do to make it easy for that to happen? Yeah. What, what can she do to make it easier for that to happen? I wasn't here. All ears. What can I do? I'll do it. I'll do it. What everybody? Just just be understanding. What does that mean? Well, pressure. Don't pressure. And know that I'm trying. Okay. And, and, and, and know that I love you, and I love our children. You know, and that I'm really, really and truly trying, you know, and I mean, you know, it's difficult, and you know, a lot of times I just don't have the time. You know, I'm trying. I'm gonna try to make time. You know, I'm gonna try to make that, and we'll try the best I can, you know, but, but, but, but, but I have a vision, and you need to help me with this vision, you know, and if the vision calls for you maybe to do a little more now, then, you know, I guarantee you, you'll do a little less later.
That was a very difficult session, and I'm sure this is a pretty typical kind of cases that you run into. And also, in in a way, they both bring up some very important issues. That is, for Bill, that his way of a caring about his family is to be a good provider and to be successful. He kept saying, "I am working for my family. I am working for all of us." And his vision, he keeps also talking about this vision of his future is to be a good provider in such a way Leslie can even stay home and not have to go to work. And so, in some ways, I suppose one could say he's has a very traditional view of marriage. At the same time, he recognizes that there needs to be some balance. On the other hand, Leslie's issue has to do with more here now, the family relationship now, the more time was spent with the children, watching, helping her out, doing things together, more intimate moments that they used to share in an early period of their life. And so what she wants and he wants, they both are related to relationships, but comes from very different angles. So what they need to do is somehow not see this as an either/or situation, but think of this as a both end. And obviously, clients don't see that, and that's what gets them stuck is when they stick to seeing things from either all point of view rather than both end. So our job, or my job, is to help them somehow figure out how to see how they could see themselves working cooperatively together. And I said, I believe that they need both their visions of the future, as well as also what needs to happen right now. And so what I'm going to do next is I asked invite the couple back into this into the room, and there will be three components to what I would say. The first one is some sense of acknowledging, validating their point of view, and also the task, some sort of bridging statement that leads to the suggestion that we're going to offer. And since the couple are so other-focused, that is, Leslie is very concerned about what Bill is not doing, and also Bill is very concerned about what Leslie is not doing, and therefore the task will be designed to watch each other from different points of point of view than they have done in the past. That is, they have a very focused on what the other person is not doing. And so this time, we will have suggest to them about what the other person is doing to help the marriage.
I had to think long and hard, and I really have to tell you that I think that you're calling the service appointment was a really good time, really good timing because you don't want to make things worse. You don't want things to get any worse than it already has been, and there sounds like you both, you are very concerned about what's what's not happening between the two of you, and I think that you wanted to do something about that. And I really am very impressed, Baro, that you responded to Leslie is initiating this meeting and your willingness to take time from your very busy schedule, and obviously this relationship is very important to you. Yes, and that's why you are here to do something about this. And what occurred to me is that both of you weary care about this relationship about this marriage a great deal, but both in a very different way. Okay. Let me sort of explain to you about this. Bill, your way of hearing about this relationship is to have this vision of the future, how you want things to be. That is, I guess you sort of accustomed to sacrificing a lot for the future, and how you still see you, the in order to have a better future, even to the point maybe Leslie staying home one of these days. That's what you're talking about. Yeah. The financially thing, you could become comfortable enough, you could learn enough money so that she could stay home. And so you have this vision of the future, how you want things to be, and so that's how you care about this relationship. On the other hand, Leslie, your way be caring about this relationship is to pay attention to now. When the children are young, you want the two of you to do more things with the children. You want to share this experience of raising children together. You want to stay close and have more intimate moments. And somehow trying to make it, make it. I mean, so I'm gonna have it all, right? And that's how you are, you know, you care about about this relationship. So there's, you know, really, there's no question in my mind that both of you care about each other in a very different way, very different way, and often times that gets misunderstood. And I think that both of you need both ways. Okay. Any relationship needs both. That is, you have to pay attention to here now, as well as the future. Okay. You need to do both. And it's a like a Bill said, it's it's a matter of balance, how to balance here and now, and also worrying about the future. And so I think that you to have a very good start because you already are they're thinking about right now, as well as a future. So the next task for the two of you, next job for the two of you, is to figure out how to sort of fit two of your concerns together to make it fit better. I don't think it's either your way or your way. It's the blending of the two that somehow, how to make a balance in order to do that. Both of you have to work together to strike this balance. Okay. And I really like the way that you want to get started on this. You really, you know, what you have some ideas already. You have lots of ideas about how to get started on that. Okay. Like having this sort of stealing these few moments here, there, you know, without the children, and they certainly would help. So what I would like to suggest to you, gonna do it between now and next time we get together, is for each of you to keep track of what the other person is doing. For you to keep track about builders and food, to keep track of olicity to us to make things a little bit better, a little bit better for the marriage. And it's important for you to not to discuss it, but just keep track of them, just to observe. If you check out that, and when we come back together, we will discuss it more details. Yeah, but I want you to super observe it, file a little way, and then when we get together, we'll talk about it.