Transcription
Thank you for being here. I was really nervous about talking with you because, um, you know, the whole, like, don't want to disappoint.
Well, I actually appreciate you being here, cuz you know, you said you're anxious. It's, it's anxiety-provoking for anyone to be sitting here with all these cameras, and you're talking about something really intimate. So, I really appreciate it. So, what would be the most helpful thing that you might want to get out of our conversation? I have some thoughts myself, but I really would love to know, like, first from you.
I, one of the things that I would like to get out of our session is just, like, I know that I have automatic thought processes, and it's like I work so hard to try to be better, but that was what, like, like I just, I would just like to be challenged in that regard because I, because I think that when you, you have the automatic thoughts, it's like, even if you try to educate yourself, it's like, for some reason, different from hearing it from another human versus reading it in a book or, you know. So, just like, maybe just challenge me a little bit, like.
So, this is one proposition. Tell me about this. What would help us to really understand some of your history?
Okay. It sounds like the last about 2 years ago, there was more of a formal diagnosis for, um, BPD, right? Sort of what led to that diagnosis, and then, you know, perhaps I could think about some ways in which I might be hearing what you're saying as it pertains to what might be helpful as next steps.
Gotcha. How does that sound?
Yeah.
Because one of the things that I always am wary about, while I totally agree with you that all of us have these automatic ways of thinking, we all do. That's like not an, you know, disorder. It's actually part of our humanhood. Um, what you may be saying is the way in which you process things, um, may affect your feelings, may affect how you think about yourself, may affect your relationships.
Yes. Yes. And that may have to do a little more about you're going to like your psychology. So I wish some formal like CBT, I could just say, "Hey, try this challenging, you know, diffuse this cognition, right?" Um, we might want to see whether there's something else going on there that's more about how you're, you know, thinking about things and, um, and that pertains more to psychology rather than the typical, you know, challenging a cognitive process for you.
I got you. Which are sort of different things.
No, that makes total sense. I mean, like, not to be like, yeah, but, um, would you like for me to kind of tell you a little bit about myself?
I would love, and especially the last two years, whatever led up to your diagnosis.
I, I think that, um, if I, like, derail, just like, get me on track because I don't mean to, you know.
You are, don't worry about it. Okay.
I, I am, I'm following your lead.
Okay. Um, so, like, just growing up, um, I always felt like I didn't, like, fit in entirely. And just being in, like, a really conservative state and just kind of feeling like, you know, something was inherently wrong with me because, like, I just didn't fit in with certain aspects of the culture. And then, um, when I was in high school, um, my dad got in an accident and is paralyzed. And so it was like one of those things. Oh, and I said, "Oh." Um, and also I was in a relationship when I was 15 until I was 22, um, that was abusive. And a part of kind of being in that relationship, like, retrospectively, is like when he would hit me, I ended up hitting back. And so then there became kind of this, like, "Oh, well, we're both bad, but at least, like, we were bad together" kind of thing.
Um, and then, um, just being in that relationship, I didn't have, like, a lot of, like, friends in, like, high school and stuff, so there was, like, this toxicity, but there wasn't, like, I don't know. And then, um, and then in college, I was just so, like, fixated on going to med school that once again, there was so much emphasis on, like, academics that I didn't really explore, like, interpersonal relationships, you know? And I was still just in such a codependent, toxic relationship. And then I got to med school, and it was like, I couldn't stand this person, but I couldn't, um, just be single. So, it was like, there was a guy that was in my class and, like, it just kind of was like, "Oh, by the way," like, just trauma dumping. "Oh, by the way, I'm in an abusive relationship." And then, um, and then it just turned so that, like, we started hanging out, being friends. I broke up with this guy, and then I ended up, like, dating the other guy. So, just leapfrogging.
Um, so then, like, all of this, like, information to tell you that, like, I had all of these, like, really toxic, like, relationships and no real sense of, like, who I was, even to a point where I remember being stressed out if people would ask me, like, what my favorite music was because I didn't know if my answer would be good enough or acceptable, you know? And just, like, what, who, like, that it's okay to have your own opinion, kind of thing. It's okay to be you. What? And then, um, people would, like, me, but I felt like a lot of times they liked me for how much I cared about them, um, versus, like, actually, like, liking me for me because it would just, other people's happiness and feelings and them being okay and feeling heard was so important, but then it's like, it would, I would never really, like, advocate for, like, myself and my voice. And all this time, I just thought that I had anxiety and depression.
Um, I do wish that, like, the help that I got would have been, like, more helpful because in that time period, the only, um, like, provider that was given was, like, a therapist that was for, like, all the residents. So, and then you're on rotations, and there was no consistency. I think that I really identified, like, I said, with depression and anxiety, but I always felt like, I don't even know if I felt like something was missing, but I definitely knew I was unwell still.
And then, um, I, in a relationship, surprisingly, and we started dating when we were both in residency in Shreveport. And then he got into fellowship in New Orleans, and I got into fellowship in California. And so, I, I tell people that being in a long-distance relationship was, like, the best thing for both of us and for me because the only thing you have is communication. So, if your communication sucks, it, it, cuz because at that point, he and I had been together for, like, 8 months. And I think the way it could have, it lasted even eight months was because when you're with a person who cares so [ __ ] much about you and you can cuddle and hug and you can kind of sweep certain things under the rug. But when you're in a long-distance relationship and all you have is communication, and if the other person, aka me, is like, doesn't know how to handle, like, if he would hang out with people, I'd be like, "You like them more than me. You don't love me. Do you really love me? Does he love me?" And then, so it was like, he did love me, but he, he's so kind and smart and just like, Tiffany, like, every day is just like, it's so much. And so that is kind of what led me to be like, "No, you're absolutely right." Like, I was aware that I was being toxic, but it was just so hard not to be. Do you know what I mean? And so I, um, ended up getting a therapist, and just through talking to her, I still to this day kind of don't know, like, what I said, but she was just like, um, she brought up the book, "Loving Someone with Borderline," because we were talking kind of about my family dynamics, cuz she was just getting to know me.
And then I read the book, and I was like, "Uh oh, this is me, actually." So, then I, so I think that it prompted me to kind of, like, do my own research, and then I went back to her being like, "Did you ask me to read it because you knew it was me?" And then, so we started to have, like, these discussions. And it's like, what is that called, like, whenever, like, flight into health, kind of thing, like, to where I felt like because I knew something about myself that I didn't understand, it was like, "Great, I'm going to be better now." And then, but that's not how it goes. And so when Rebby filmed me for the channel before, I was like, "Yeah, girl." Like, I only think about suicide every couple of months. But then, obviously, it takes a while to edit and stuff. The hardest part, um, is like, in some ways, you get better, like, in the communication, and like, me and, um, my partner are actually living together now. So, that's huge. But it's like, I have to put so much energy into maintaining one relationship that, like, I don't have any friends. Like, I have, like, long-distance friends from, like, you know, but I don't have, like, an actual community in New Orleans. And I think that that has really brought back the suicidal ideation. And so, um, so, yeah, like, anyway, I told you a lot.
Really helpful. But this issue of friends is a big one.
Huh?
The issue with friends is a big one.
Correct. Like, cuz I just don't feel like I have a community. And the hardest part is that because my partner, he doesn't have a personality disorder, so he has, like, a lot of friends. And, like, for me, it's like, like, I still battle just, like, the worthiness and just, like, wanting to be worthy and, like, waiting for the other foot to drop and waiting. And it's not as bad, like, as it used to be. But I still struggle with it. And the biggest one that I have said, like, 5,000 times on this trip is the suicidal ideation. And the reason why I'm bringing it up so much is because people are so quick to label me as, like, high-functioning, but it's like, it's not [ __ ] normal to want to kill yourself all the time. All the time.
It's a real challenge because clearly you have a real skill to be able to navigate really big obstacles. You know, when you were talking earlier about what you've had to deal with in life, that must have been really hard seeing your dad paralyzed and the aftermath of that. You know, you, you talk about it as though it's sort of an "as if," but I can only imagine how that must have felt for you.
Yeah. I mean, I, like, it, and the, uh, in the, the other session, it was commented on how much I apologize, and I'm going to keep apologizing to you, but I'm sorry I'm talking so fast. It's just because, like, I'm anxious.
Yeah.
But, um, it, uh, yeah, of course. I mean, like, because I grew up, um, not feeling understood by my parents and just, like, you know, kind of being like the black sheep. And so, like, I was definitely, like, "Yeah, I'm going to get out of the house." And, like, I think that in my head, I always thought that there was, like, a future to, like, when I'm out of the house and I'm older and, like, then maybe we'll have a better relationship. But then having that happen and realizing. And then it just made me feel like really shameful and guilty for, like, having these, like, bad thoughts about my parents. And then, and then, like, the level of suffering to witness for both of my parents. Like, it was so emasculating for my dad. And for some reason, the priest came to our house, and like, I really don't know why. And, like, my dad had, like, a, um, like a, um, like a hospital bed. And I also don't know why. And, like, the priest was there, and he was like, "Well, thank God you're not dead." And I'm like, "Fuck you." Because it's so, just like, yes, obviously thank God that he's not dead, but, like, a part of him did die. A part of our family did die. A part of what was normal died. Okay. So, like, stop. Like, and I just feel like for me, it's like, just the, and it was like, always just feeling like invalidated and like not believed is a big one because, um, when I leapfrogged, like, I told you, when I was 22, from one relationship to the other, I told people, they were like, they were judging me for being with somebody so quickly soon after. And I was like, "Y'all, like, this dude was abusive. Like, I, I'm doing the right thing." And the response, response was, "We never thought that you'd be that person. We never thought that, like, you would allow that to happen." Like, and so, just, like, very much so, like, victim-blaming. And not to say that I'm a victim, but just to say that, like, you know, it's like not being believed. And then now, the people not believing me about my internal experience. It's like, that to me is just, like, a constant theme that I feel like, like, it makes me so angry.
Yeah. It's a real dilemma because on the one hand, I think that you, um, have looked at tragedy and been pretty resilient. You know, what you did was say, like, "Screw you," and as the, you, you said, black sheep of the family, but I almost feel like what you did in the face of tragedy was pursue medical school, right? Which is pretty, you know, a pretty motivating, difficult thing in the face of a lot of challenge. Um, yet inside, you were sort of dying. And it feels like there is that sort of disconnect. You know, on the one hand, you're pretty skillful and talented, and I think feel some pride around that, and on the other, you're struggling significantly with things like suicidal ideation every day. And what seems to frustrate you, and tell me if I'm hearing you correctly, what seems to frustrate you is that people aren't seeing the side of you that really struggles and rather celebrates the side of you that's successful.
That's the funny thing though, is I don't, like, when you said proud, like, I very much so, like, think I'm, like, disgusting. And that's a part of my, like, core beliefs is just, I mean, not as, like, not today, but for, like, you know, I would say, like, 85 or 90% of the time, you're fat, ugly, stupid, deformed, just like, annoying, weird. Like, what's wrong with you? They don't like you. Like, stop. Like, why are you so annoying? Just that. So, when you say that I'm proud, it's like, no, I just love mental health and psychiatry. I think, you know, I think that. But I do think it's interesting that you picked up on kind of pursuing that because I think that my sister pursued religion, and I pursued, um, mental health.
Yeah. So, it's like, but I agree with you is that I think that people can kind of understand a person using religion as comfort, and I think that I used, like, school as comfort. How do you feel about? It's hard not to call them accomplishments.
Well, I mean, like, yeah. Like, I mean, like, yeah. I'm, like, you know, like, I don't know because that's another thing that we talked about, like, is just that, like, um, even just, like, because it's like, it's like when I was in high school, I wasn't supposed to make it to med school because I was in, what I mean by that is, I went to Louisiana public school, which we're always racing with Mississippi for, like, the bottom. And I'm joking, but, but I can, cuz I'm from there, you know. And so, it's like, I remember, like, all, like, the private school kids and, like, the gifted and talented would just be like, "We're going to go to med school." And then, like, so the fact that I actually, like, made it. And then when you're there, I try to explain to people that it's a lot of people like myself, um, they didn't have a time period to learn how to be an adult. So, you're learning how to be a doctor while you're learning to be an adult. So, it's very much so a high school setting. It can be very clicky. And then also, it's just inherently competitive for people. So, they're more than happy to tell you about how they're better than you. So, when you're, like, you know, somebody who struggles with self-worth amongst people that are like, "I'm going to be a neurosurgeon," it's like, you know. And so, um, that's how it was. And then I, then I became a doctor. And then now I deal with people wanting to diminish me whenever they feel like they haven't reached their goals. So, then I feel like I don't want to tell people because they're probably going to try to find, because I've experienced it. Like, I've experienced, um, like, uh, well, first of all, the fact that I'm in psychiatry, you know, people who don't believe that's a real doctor, people who don't believe in mental health. And then there's the other half of, like, you know, female versus male physicians being treated differently. And then also, just a lot of time, like, even on this trip, I've really enjoyed the other people, but they were very open about being like, um, "Oh, well, now I don't feel like a real adult." And then, so because I care so much about, like, other people feeling okay, it's like, like, that's why I said, like, I don't want to tell people because, like, you know. So, it's like, when you, so, it's, it's way more.
When you say, you know, I, I think this is really important. What do you think I might understand in that?
[Music]
You said something along the lines of, "But the truth?"
Yeah. No, you're like, you're like, "I would love to hear you lie." Um, the truth is that a part of the reason also why I was like, really, like, just super honest, um, is to be real, like, and I'm like, I'm, I'm because it's like, because you, I feel like whether you're aware of it or not, experienced the trolls on YouTube because a lot of people compared me and Charlotte's video, and some people compared you and Lois as providers. And it's so stupid because y'all are different people. And it's like, I just kind of feel like connected to you in a way, which is like hilarious, cuz you're like, "Hey, girl, I'm just meeting you." But I feel connected to you in the way that it's like, people just judged you for no reason. And it's like,
So, I could understand you being judged too.
Just for no reason, just for existing, just for being you.
Well, I wonder how that makes you feel to see to feel that way with me. That's part of why, like, I told you I didn't want to talk about it because I didn't want to bring it up and be like, "Yeah, people are really mean to us online, like, on cameras." So, but then I also wanted to bring it up because, like, I don't want to make assumptions about you, but it seems like you possibly are able to handle things better than I am, possibly. I don't know. Maybe. But, you know, I think a, a great question that might be helpful, at least at this point, is to understand why you, why you feel so affected
By other people's judgments.
Yep. The, the, the million-dollar question, huh?
Yeah.
I don't know.
You know.
Normally, I would sort of step back, but I, there's something I've been wanting to say for a few minutes, and I feel like it's, um, relevant. I, I don't think it's going to be that sort of life-shattering or building, but an important, um, I think pattern. Um, you just mentioned, "I don't know why I care so much about people's judgments," but when we first sat down, and you said to me, "The big thing that's really bothered me is I don't really have friends, and I see my, um, partner with all, with this big group of friends, but it's been really a problem for me." And then you described your early childhood, and one of the things you described is trying to people-please, trying to be all that for other people, and then feeling really alone. Um, and I wonder what you make sense of in terms of that, because I have some ideas in my mind that may be worth sharing, but I'm just interested in your thoughts about that too, of, you know, how you feel about that.
Um, I'm going to answer that question. And I also wanted you to tell you something. Um, did you notice how whenever you're like, "I'm going to tell you something," and every time people say that, I automatically, like, my heart drops because I'm expecting for them to be like, "You're so [ __ ] annoying." And like, I know that you wouldn't intellectually because, like, that would, but, but it's just like, emotionally, I'm just so, like, literally Rebby was like, "Hey, Tiffany, like, I have to tell you something." And I was like, "She's going to tell me that she doesn't like me and like that I'm..."
What if she doesn't like you?
It would make me sad.
Because I, it would make me sad in that situation because I genuinely like Rebby. Um, so I am getting a little bit better, be in the sense that if somebody does not have the same values as me in regards to, like, kindness is like non-negotiable. If you're unkind to others, especially, um, I'm like, "That's disgusting." Like, being a bully, you know? And so, if a bully does, like, but okay, I understand the irony when people are being a bully towards me, like, I don't have that same response. But I don't, yeah. So, anyway, I dre, so.
But, just, you know, because on the one hand, I very much understand why people want to be liked. So, I don't want to minimize what you're saying. And at the same time, it sounds like it's a big, central issue.
Because not all of us are always going to be liked, right? That's just reality. But for you, it's been a really important, central part of your own development.
Yeah. Yeah. So, the challenge that, that seems to be one of the things you're dealing with is you want to be sort of known and maybe even loved for who you are, but yet, I'm not sure how many people really know you.
And that's the funny thing is, is that whenever I was sicker, I would tell people too much. But then, just like, typ, like, kind of the course for BPD is because I'm 32, and so the older that you are, the, now I don't open up as much as I used to, which is ironic 'cause I'm on film. But in terms of, like, personal relationships, I don't. And it's because it's just exhausting. All of this is exhausting, you know? And, like, I said, the few relationships I do have, like, my partner, my sister, who I do consider to be a friend, and, um, like, a really close friend from residency. Like, I, I do have friends. It's just I don't have a community.
That's what I'm trying to say. Like, I'm not, like, a total weirdo, but I just don't have that ability to have interactions with people that don't cause me intense amounts of stress and anxiety. And, um, like, always.
And stress and anxiety for what reason?
Um, because it's, it just seems to me, and I know, I know that this is, like, this is a flawed way of thinking, but it just, cuz going back to your original question, this is a good segue, is I just feel like something is inherently wrong with me that people can see and saw from an early age. Like, and at first, I didn't know if it was because, like, I grew up in a really conservative area and maybe, like, I didn't even realize that I had, like, really progressive ways of thinking, but maybe they sniffed it off of me and they were just like, "This, she's not one of us." I don't know. I'm joking with you. But it's like, I just, I don't know. I don't know. Like, I just, being in, like, middle school and, like, high school. And so, it's like, I think that that's a part of the reason why I entered that toxic relationship is, and that was, like, the first time of being like, "Okay, like, I choose you or you're, you're, like, you know?" And, um, and I think that's for different reasons. I think that I do buy into the hypersensitive person in an invalidating environment. And my parents worked so hard for us, but I think that by having kids so young, they didn't have a chance to become adults. And so there was a lot of, like, immature ways of, like, coping and handling their own emotions. And, yeah. And, and, and a part of the whole, like, high-functioning thing is that, like, I feel like I did certain things. Like, for instance, when I was in middle school and high school, I was a cheerleader, but, and people have this idea from, like, movies that that makes you cool, but, like, I wasn't. I wasn't. And so, it's just like, that's also the hard part. Like, all the other girls were on, like, the homecoming court except me. So, it's like, that's the point that I'm trying to make is that, like, just because you meet certain check marks doesn't mean you actually meet those check marks. You know, just because I'm a doctor doesn't mean that, like, I don't struggle.
Yeah. It's kind of like what a few minutes ago you said, "I feel like I'm inherently bad."
Yeah.
Right. And so, if anyone actually got to really know you, might they see the badness?
I think they would see, and I, I keep calling it pathology, but I think that they would see the pathology just because nobody wants to deal with a person that lacks confidence and is just like, and I, like, in the past, I would constantly be like, "Do you think I'm pretty? Do you think, do you love me? Do you love me?" And I don't do that anymore, but it's like, I do still kind of yearn for that verbal validation because I have no idea, like, where I stand. It's kind of like you are playing some part. You describe being a cheerleader, and you know, it looks all happy and, I don't know, enticing maybe on the outside, but on the inside, that doesn't really match. It sort of seems like that has been the theme of what you're describing, that you are this sort of successful physician, and people may look at you in a particular way as a result of your credentials, but that doesn't match internally how you feel.
Yeah.
Right. As a friend, um, while you might have friends, uh, you feel very alone in the midst of relationships.
Yeah.
Right. This outside not matching what's going on inside.
Yeah. Because, like, for instance, it's like, because people who may not, like, need as much verbal validation as I do, like, they may feel very, like, comforted and, like, understood because, like, I listen, and because I show care and, like, interest in all of these things, but I don't know if it's accurate to, like, use the term love language, but the way that I feel loved, a lot of people don't give that, which is understandable. Like, it's not their job to just dole out, you know, verbal validation, but it's like, because I don't kind of receive stuff that way, I'm always just left kind of like making up stories.
Well, how do you, how do you love yourself?
Um, I, I love certain things about me, like the fact that I genuinely try my best to be a good person and a good doctor. Um, but I still find myself to be, like, just like, I, I just like, like, I wish I could hit the reset button, you know? Like, reset, like, I wish, like, whether that means, like, just have a different life or try to be a different person or, like, start over because in some ways I feel like I don't know. I don't know. I just, like, I, I feel like I'm just, I'm just tired. I'm just tired of, like, I'm just tired of, like, having, like, these knee-jerk thoughts and reactions and, and, you know, and it's like, I just hope so desperately that through continued work and, you know, getting back into therapy and continuing to take medicine, continuing to try to engage with communities and, you know, and, and do certain things, like, I hope that one day, it's just, I'm tired of, like, always resorting to, "Oh, well, this was really awkward. I wish I could kill myself," you know? Like, I'm just so tired of that. I'm so tired of, like, that being.
So, we got here when I asked, "How do you love yourself?"
I know, right?
I don't know how to answer it.
So, I'm like.
It's a hard question.
Yeah.
Right. And you started talking about the things that you feel like are the good parts of you, the things you value, your morals, trying to be a good doctor, trying to be a kind person. But I wonder about the parts of you that you judge.
Yeah. I mean, like, yeah, like, it's so, like, that, like, I've been, I've been, like, kinder to myself this past week, but I think it's because we've been so busy that it's kind of like, you don't. But, like, on my day-to-day, I'm just, like, I don't want to say I don't love myself, but I also don't want to say I do because neither feels right. I think this issue that you're, it's a complicated one of loving yourself. And, um, you watched Charlotte's video, there's a lot of judgments that you can see Charlotte makes about herself. In the same way, I think a lot of judgments that you make, not only about yourself, but about what you assume other people may make about you, and then you get really focused on it.
Yeah. Yes. And change, try and change who you are to suit others.
Yeah.
To be maybe loved.
Yep.
But certainly, for some reason.
The problem is that leaves who you are really unknown to you or anyone else, right?
Yes.
So, how can you really be loved for who you are, by for yourself or by others, if there's either slivers or large pieces of you that get left hidden?
Mhm.
That nobody's to see for fear of their judgment. And I can only imagine how much work this is for you to navigate life when living as a human is about who you are and how you relate. So, it's a lot of emotional energy that you're expending where your sort of true self, which I think you're sort of still figuring out, is left totally unknown. So, how could you feel connected to people?
Right.
Right. You know, John Gunderson, who is my mentor and who sort of put BPD on the map, one of the things he says to, um, he says is that suicidality gets higher for people who feel really both angry and alone. And you're sort of hitting both of those notes. It's not that I'm worried about you leaving today and doing something, um, but I think that you recognize the problem with that, right? And if you're somebody who says, "Anger's bad because then people won't like you," then you're sort of [ __ ] right? Cuz by the way, we all get angry. I appreciate you saying [ __ ] And I also agree. I think that, um, it's true. I mean, like, I, uh, like when I told you earlier about being like, "I don't, if people would ask me what type of music I liked, I'd be like, I don't know because it may not be good enough." And like, I look at other people who can like, just be themselves or seemingly be themselves, like, just like, it's, what I mean by be themselves is express opinions.
Because I feel like if I, like, express opinions, like, they won't be good enough.
And so, when you said that part about being like, the anger and the loneliness, that's a part of why I'm scared because I keep saying that I don't know how it's sustainable to have chronic suicidal ideation and, and not, not actually do it one day. You know what I mean? And not to be like, you know, fear-mongering, but just being realistic. That's what scares me because it's like, eventually, enough is enough. It's like,
I'm just tired of being like, because I do relate to, like, the anger thing. Just the anger of, um, yeah, just the anger and then both of them, you know.
Um, I think suicide, having suicidal ideation, is that a problem? Of course it is. It's actually really important to pay attention to. What's equally, if not more important, is what makes you feel suicidal. And I don't know how much you, you may not know enough about how that happens for you. Um, but it seems very tied into how you feel about yourself and your attachment to wanting others to see you in a certain way and to being good enough. And while I wish I could say to you, "Hey, cognitive restructuring and just let's challenge those, you know, black and white thoughts," could that help? Sure. But I think there's much more, um, about how you think about who you are as a human being, as a human, you know? And this idea of, "I was, you know, a bad kid or born bad." And why that badness continues to sort of, um, survive in your mind, and these active attempts to not have people see those parts of you that you fear they will judge you on? Is it going to be good enough? Are they going to like you enough? Um, so I hope this sort of helps a little bit with, I wish I could say, "Hey, let's do some CBT," but I think this is a journey that you've been on. Good for you to get the diagnosis. People, I've seen people do one of two things. Some people say, "I don't want that to be me." And some people say, "Thank goodness. Now I can understand myself a little bit better and begin a different journey." And it sounds like you're beginning that different journey, kind of unsurprisingly.
What do you mean by that?
Meaning, if you think about when you've been faced with tragedy in the past, I know very small bits of this, but it seems like you face tragedy and you try and sort of, um, grow from it. Perhaps that's why people see you in a particular way and miss the real struggles because I don't think it's been easy for you. But I give you a lot of credit. I really appreciate you being here. So, thank you. I hope you're not feeling as anxious as you were when we started.
No, it's like I'm, you have a very soothing voice, and I also just, like, I'm happy to have made it through.
Yeah, you did a great job.
Thank you. And I don't mean like, um, but I appreciate your honesty.