Transcription
So what? Okay. So wait, so hold on. When the Bereans examined the scriptures, how did they know that those things were true? Who did they go to, or what authority, or what person interpreted the scriptures to tell them that, "Hey, this is true?"
I I want to address what I want to address what what Random got on the screen. He says, "Each tradition draws forth different truths from scripture." Now, according to Random and Magdan, the way that we view things and the way that, you know, like Sola Scriptura, basically, it's incoherent. So, since our position is incoherent, what is the coherent position that we should be following? You should have the same theological claims about the nature of baptism in the Eucharist.
From where?
From scripture.
The...
No, no, no, no, no. Listen. No. No. No. No, Random. Our position is, you you already established that our position isn't coherent.
Uh-uh.
You can draw forth the same truths from scripture.
Okay.
Scripture is true.
All right.
Right.
And okay. So, if scripture, if scripture is true and you find different truths in scripture, that makes your positions incoherent with one another.
Okay. Well, show me the tradition that we need to be looking to do that because you guys, go ahead. I think we need to have you listen. I I want to just say one thing. I want to say one thing. They are binding but fallible. Okay? That infallible doesn't mean non-binding. They are binding. They're just fallible in the sense that they could come together and alter it in the future.
So, it's unfallable. Why would I ever care what it says? Seriously, why, why would I ever care what it has to say?
I'm going to explain. I'm going to explain. Um, I hope Macdan, you're not an atheist. You're about to shoot yourself in the foot.
Okay.
What? What?
You guys clearly told new operating... Are you operating as a Catholic right now?
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah. What I said, what I said, because you guys want to keep going to argue against the Catholicism, I said, "Fine, forget it. Pretend I'm an challenging us and we're going to push back. We need to push back."
I'll let you push back. Listen, listen. Your priest, your priest, your bishop are men who are fallible. For us, the same thing. Hierarchies are fallible. They can state incorrect things, right? That doesn't mean that they're non-binding or that they don't matter. Okay. In fact, this was, this is, I keep repeating this. You should care about this. You should care about this because this was the view of the church from the death of the apostle John all the way to Nicaea 1. I keep repeating this not as a against Catholics, as a true statement.
Here's the thing that you're not dealing with, Zanti. I could set up a formal debate between you and Alton on the salvific nature and the grace conferred through baptism of infants and the Eucharist, and you would both in your opening statement bring scripture to come to very different conclusions. Okay, that's all I'm saying.
You guys disagree about what scripture teaches. You fundamentally disagree about what you fundamentally disagree about what scripture teaches.
Okay. Okay. So, so what's the solution? What? So, so what should we do?
Say...
That's for you to decide. I don't care.
Oh my goodness. Um...
Okay. That's decide to say coherent.
Alvin, I from the very...
Coherent.
Okay. So, show us the coherent, the coherent position.
All right. What is coherent now? Let's go into what is coherent. Hi. Acts, Acts 8:30-31.
Oh, so, so we going to the scripture.
So we're going to the scripture, right?
Well, wait, wait. What if we all disagree about that? All right, let's go to it. But you know, I'm going to just example this for you guys.
Seriously, this is the most clown behavior I've ever seen in my life.
Well, your interpretation's fallible.
No, no, no. Don't, don't cope, brother. Don't cope.
Why do you keep taking my question off the screen? I'd like to limit...
...about screen.
They can't answer it, Random.
We already answer on the screen like eight times.
No, you haven't.
We could come together in a council, in a general assembly, and bind our specific denominations. We don't do it right now. We could if we wanted to. We just don't do it right now.
Yeah. Which, okay. And that's where I said, "Yeah. That part is really what..."
Acts 8:30 and 31. All right, this right here. So, Philip ran to him and he heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?" And he said, "How can I unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
So, he was reading scripture like you guys read scripture. And the guy says, "Do you even know what you're reading? Do you understand it?" And he says, "How can I unless someone guides me?" So, he has that in his hand. Now, if he's a Protestant, there's two options. That dude's walking away thinking that the that he's that the Isaiah prophet is talking about himself or he's talking about somebody else to come. Now, what Random is pointing out is that Alton, you would be one of the, you would take the option of, "Hey, he's talking about himself." Walk away. Zanzi takes the vision, "Oh, he's talking about somebody else later to come."
Okay, brother.
Right. Who is the...
You don't have a way of determining what the truth of the scripture truly mean.
So, so, so in Acts 17:11, what authority did the Bereans appeal to when they examine the scriptures to see if the things that they that Paul was telling them was true?
Paul told pulled them first.
No, they, they exam... Okay.
It literally says they received the word with all eagerness. Paul told the word first and then they went and checked if how it unified.
Okay.
It says they were examining...
...right?
...daily to see if these things were true.
Things are happening.
Yep. Both things are happening.
So, so what authority did they appeal to?
Both.
What do you mean both? I'm asking who.
The scripture. The scripture to prove it. The scripture to prove it.
Look at that. So, thank you, sir. Examining the scriptures daily. Are you saying, Alton, that Paul's preaching of the good news of Christ's finished work on the cross wasn't authoritative?
...known about it?
No, no, no. Here's, I'm asking you, I'm asking you guys a simple question.
No, I'm asking you. I want you to answer my question.
Philosophy 4.99 saying, "Debating hell babies again, but all does go to heaven."
Welcome to Groundhog's Day. Rolling on the floor laughing. I want people...
Okay. Now, now...
I want y'all to see that he's not answering the... He's not answering the question.
You're not answering any questions so far, so I'm good. I don't have to answer questions when you don't answer questions.
All right. So, here we go. Let's start at verse 10. "The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away uh by night to Berea. And when they arrived, they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica. They received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so."
Mhm.
So what, so the comparison...
So comparison of nobility, hold on. The comparison of nobility is again, is about those in Thessalonica who when Paul went to them, to them. When Paul went to them and did the same thing, they ran him out of town with pitchforks.
He didn't bring anything about nobility.
...and actually chased them. They, they actually chased Paul to Macedonia.
He didn't say anything about nobility. He said about examining the scriptures, right?
Dude, he just read verse 11. What are you talking about, Zant?
He literally said, "Point was..."
...examining the scriptures. Like, who did they appeal to to examine these scriptures that was being brought by Paul and Silas?
A what? When did they go to the scriptures? After they received the word with all eagerness. And if you want more...
...examining the scriptures, okay?
...what authority did they have to examine the scriptures besides Paul and Silas?
Hold on. You're saying this happened in Thessalonica, right?
No, man. They're in Berea right now.
But it happens with...
No. No. Okay. So, Paul and Silas, right? So, they're in Berea and it's right here in in um in verse 11. This is after Thessalonica.
Correct. So it's saying that these Jews, the ones that are in Berea, were more noble than those of Thessalonica. They received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
So, so I'm asking...
I agree with you, Alton. The story goes like this. Paul went to Thessalonica. They also examined the scriptures and called Paul a liar and ran him out of town on a rail. Mhm.
The Macedonians, the Bereans, the Bereans examined the scriptures and agreed with everything Paul was saying. They, the Thessalonians, and they, the Bereans, went to the same scriptures and came to different truths.
Okay, great. Great in action.
Right. But it says that the B... that they both examine the scriptures, right?
Yeah.
Okay. So, when the Bereans examine the scriptures, who was the authority that they appealed to daily to see if these things were so?
They did both.
Where does it say?
What do you mean both? I'm asking who. I didn't say what they did. I said who.
Oral tradition is down the drain. There you go.
That's what I'm saying. Like, like who did they appeal to to see if these things were true? Say, "Where does it say authority?"
That's what I'm asking you. You guys keep talking about...
I'm asking you.
No, you guys are talking about that there's an authority that we need an interpreter and all of that. So I'm asking...
Alton, Alton, in the story in Acts 17, in the story, in this very story. Okay? And I've said this once and I'm going to say it one last time.
Say it a little last time, but I'm going to ask the same old question.
Paul went to Thessalonica and did the same thing.
Okay. Now he's in Berea on a rail.
Okay, he's in Berea.
Berea. They did the same thing and they said, "I accept this with all eagerness."
Two different Greek cities, okay?
...synagogues in Greek cities?
Coming to different conclusions about the truth of scripture.
So, okay. So, wait. So, hold on. When the Bereans examined the scriptures, how did they know that those things were true? Who did they go to or what authority or what person interpreted the scriptures to tell them that, hey, this is true? Who did they appeal to?
Themselves.
They examined what was revealed to them before to see if they could form, to see if they could conform what was before with the good news of Christ's finished work on the cross coming out of Paul's mouth. That's a true statement.
Okay. So, so who would they would have been going to to say, "Hey, look, we got Paul and we got Silas coming us, coming to us telling us something. We want to know if this is true."
None of this answers my question that...
...because you're not answering my question.
What is the question? What is pointing out what the question is?
Hold on. What Ray is pointing out, you want you want to focus on the second part where it says scripture because it works for them. Ram's pointing out that in verse one they read from scripture but they came to a completely different conclusion.
Okay, brother. You, you guys are saying...
...so scriptures used in both scenarios.
You guys are, okay. Do you believe that scripture is univocal, that it presents a singular message? Do you believe that?
Okay. Now you said conform their mind to what Paul was preaching in in um Thessalonica. Paul went and reasoned with them on the scripture. They didn't quote unquote confirm their mind. These guys quote unquote confirmed their mind.
Yeah.
All right. What is the difference?
Was it authority of Paul? Was it on...
...and drew the correct truth from the others did not?
Wait, wait, listen to me. Was it on Paul's infallible authority? That's, that's how they decided.
Hey, when you guys done, can I get in here?
No. Hold on. We going to cook you in a minute. But, but go ahead. We, we, we, we got to focus on Paul. Was it on the basis of Paul's infallible authority that he was trying to claim or was it on something else?
Because in this moment, in this moment, and because I can't get an answer to my original question, and because Zazi won't stop speaking over me, I am going to leave the panel and let Matt Dan and Monk handle it. I'm done.
Listen. No. No. No. Here's the thing. Random. Zazi was just speaking and he was asking a question and you started speaking over him.
I quit. Running.
All right, we're good. Well, all right, Random, you, you know that you always welcome here, brother.
Wait, why did they random leave? Why did Random leave?
But because, because we was cooking him, you know what I'm saying? No, no, the thing is that he was getting cooked. He was getting hot in the kitchen and so, so, you know, pants on fire. You know what I'm saying? He, he had to pass on fire.
No, no, no. He just got, he just got annoyed with you guys not answering the question.
But I, I just got a question here. So, so I got this because I, I hear, I hear the pros here saying that uh...
...well because of this story here, this passage here in the Bible, it means uh, you know, scripture alone, are we going to...
No, nobody said that. Nobody said that, brother.
Okay. Well, well, my, my, my issue is like we know and we, we know there was multiple stories of conversions. Okay. The Bereans went and studied scripture. They figured it out because they went to the Old Testament and they studied Old Testament.
Okay. Under what authority did they go and study the scripture?
Well, I mean whatever authority they went to.
Okay. Can you bring up first 2:1?
Yeah. While y'all bring it up, Magda, let me finish. While y'all bring it up.
No, I, I need an answer to this question before we go to another text.
Uh, what? Just tell me what I don't... It doesn't matter to me. Well, the point I'm going to make doesn't matter whose authority they went under. What authority? Just tell me what, what are you getting at?
Okay. So, all right. So, so, so to kind of catch you up to speed now, yeah, the, the, Now, Dan Macdan, correct me if I'm wrong, you guys are basically saying that there needs to be an interpreter of the scriptures and there needs to be an authority, right? And you believe that, right? So, there needs to be an authority and there needs to be somebody to properly interpret the scriptures, right?
Yeah. Yeah, we know that.
Okay. We know that. So, so that's why I'm asking right here in Acts 17 was talking about the Bereans. Y... who did the Bereans go to to make sure that they had the correct interpretation to make sure that what Paul and Silas was telling them uh uh was correct?
They went to the Bereans themselves. Only the Bereans in the whole Bible were the only ones that went to scripture.
Okay. It's a question.
So...
...no, that's not true. And that's the point.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on.
No, no. Back there. Who else? Just tell me. I don't...
...literally if you go to the first, the very first verse, the Thessalonians also, 'cause Paul used scripture there too. And that's the point. This is literally showing of how scripture false exactly come up if you want to. Pedro, come up.
But my issue with this argument from the protest...
...because both use scripture and both came to two completely different conclusions. Issue. The issue that I have and I'm and I and I caught a whole bunch of people on this is so are we going to say that the only conversion story in the Bible that matters is the one about the Bereans when we know there's thousands and hundreds of conversions that didn't use scripture. So because the Bereans were the exact... So we're not going to, we're going to ignore the other one.
Hold on, brother. Hold on.
Because here's my point. Let me just cut to the chase. Paul and Silas, Paul, let's just go with Paul. Christ came to Paul himself. So how can you be a who's a a higher authority than Paul himself? But we're seeing that even the Bereans went to the scriptures.
So I'm sorry. What was that?
Peter was a higher authority than Paul.
Oh.
Oh yeah. Keep going.
Okay. So in this context, all right. So, so in this context, yeah, Paul come, Paul and Silas, they come and they're preaching the gospel to the Bereans. The Bereans are going to the to the scriptures despite what Paul is saying and they're examining these things to make sure that what Paul is telling them is aligning with the scripture.
Yeah. But this is just a special case. This ain't the end all be all. We have we have instances where the people that were being preached to, they didn't go.
So, so we can't do that. So wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. So we can't do that today as Protestants. We can't go to the scriptures and examine what people tell us to see if it's true.
You can, but you guys are overstating the this this exception. Like this is an exception was put in... Come on, brother. I, I didn't prove that. I'm walking. Listen. Let's walk. Let's walk.
Okay. So, the Bereans went to the scriptures to examine these things were so, the things that that was being told to them by Paul and Silas. Okay. So, that was good.
And when Protestants, all right. So, so first group.
Okay. So, when Protestants are doing that, it's bad.
Can't do it. Could I've been quiet this whole time. Could I bring up uh, go to verse one?
Could I bring up a scripture? Could we go to uh, King Agrippa in Acts 26, please?
All right. All right. We, we gonna go to Acts 26 in a minute. So, let, let's, let's read this first, this first uh uh uh verse right here.
Now, when they had passed through uh Amphipolis and Am I am I...
...sorry, I meant verse two. I said verse one. I meant verse two. I apologize.
Okay. And Paul went in as he was custom on the three Sabbath days. All right. What? So, rap talking about them Sabbath days. He, he reasoned with them from the scriptures.
Yep. So, scriptures were used, right? We both agree scriptures used, right?
Okay. What conclusion did they come to?
They examined the scriptures, right? Well, where, where we at?
They went back to the scriptures, right?
How about the, how about the thief on the ground?
They examine the scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
No, that's Bereans. They're talking about the first group in Thessalonica.
Yeah.
Okay.
In the church, right? But, but now we're back to the Bereans.
No, no. I'm asking you before we go to these guys. What was the conclusion that they got from using the scripture?
Okay, let's go on back up here, bro.
Yeah.
They...
...Yeah, show us the show... Wait, wait, hold up. Show us the part where the Thessalonians actually went to the scriptures to check and see whether what Paul and Silas was saying was so. Show us that part. So in verse two, as we both agreed, it says they're using scriptures, right? We both agree that they're using scripture, right?
No. Paul was using the scripture. The...
...Paul was using them.
Yeah. From, from scripture.
Yeah.
Unless, unless these people are dead, they're hearing scripture.
No, but the critical mass here is this. Paul, what conclusions did they come to, Alton?
No. No. The critical mass here is Paul and Silas are using the scriptures in this verse. Whereas in the Berean passages, the Bereans along with Paul and Silas are using the scriptures.
Thessalonians just made a mob to chase him out.
Okay. So all the Bereans went to the scriptures.
Not engaging with him. I already told you that for...
...I know. I know. And that's... Go ahead. Go ahead.
But, but this thing doesn't... Well, don't engage. Don't engage with the result.
I have a question. This doesn't, this doesn't prove anything. Paul goes to one.
Yeah. That's what we're saying. That's what I'm saying. It doesn't... No. Listen, you guys are almost proving that the scriptures don't say that Jesus is the Messiah unless Paul by some sort of infallible authority is claiming that. That's what you guys are implying, which is not what's happening in these stories.
Paul is claiming no infallible authority. Can we agree here? He's not saying anything about infallibility or on my authority or anything like that. He's going to the scriptures to reason. One group accepts, one group doesn't accept. That doesn't mean the scriptures are wrong. It means the groups are wrong.
Okay. Yeah. But again, you guys are using this to prove...
...and and to add to that, and to add that one group over the other uses scriptures in order to confirm what Paul and Silas are saying and the other does not.
Yeah, but the issue you guys have is that we have plenty of other stories in the Bible where they didn't go to scripture.
So what that doesn't mean, right? That, that means Jack.
So wait, wait, hold on.
I can go on the street corner and preach the gospel without using a Bible verse. That doesn't mean anything.
Wait, wait. Actually, I can disprove that right now. Can you scroll up back to the verse two? Can you scroll?
You guys have ran so far from my original question. I'm pointing that out. You guys still refuse to answer that original one.
That's okay, Mac. Dad, cuz, cuz we cooking right now. It's getting a little hot in the kitchen.
No, I get it because you couldn't tell your own.
That's all right. It's going to heat up for you, too, Mo.
No, I just don't see how y'all can make an exception the rule. The same thing with with with baptism. Like...
...we're not trying to sit. We're not, we're not trying to.
All right. Let me...
All right. All, all right. So, so, so we at verse two. So, so, so what's going on with verse two?
Yeah. Go to look, look at verse two. Look at verse two right here. It says, "Paul went into the Senate." Well, this is what I'm trying to say. You said...
...the story of this is a way for me to like manually mute so I don't have to listen to an individual.
Well, this is what I'm trying to say.
In verse two, I don't even want to hear his voice.
Yeah. "Paul went in as he did as custom and on three days was in uh reasoned with them from the scriptures." I'm saying every single time according to verse two and chapter 17 here it says that the standard practice of Paul whatever church he went to whatever society he went to was actually to use scripture. You just said to the whole crowd, us and the audience, that there's plenty of passages where Paul didn't do this where he where it says it's custom for him. Can you show us that?
1 Thessalonians 2:11-13, which I've been asking for this whole damn time.
All right. Wait, wait, hold on. Which one?
First Thessalonians 2:11-13.
Yep.
Okay. Let's see if that answers the question I just asked.
1 Thessalonians chapter 2, verses 11-13. All right. "For you know how like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you, encouraged you, and charge you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory. And we also thank God constantly for this that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but at but as what is re what it is really the word of God which which is at work in you and believers."
Wow, that's weird. It sounds like they heard words coming out of fallible men's mouths and realized, hey, that's infallible speech of God, just like the infallible words written in the scriptures.
Can I interact with that? Well, let me... Well, hold on. I can go back.
...Almost like that solves the problem.
I can interact with this. So, Macdan, I've already given given you this answer before and you didn't accept it last time. Miss G brought it up on another stream. I'm going to bring it to you now.
...at random_atholic_315 tithed five talents saying, "Did Zed just say that Paul was not exercising the infallible authority apostle ordained by our lord and savior Jesus Christ?"
...was being spoken which is the gospel right here from the scriptures.
Say it again, Pedro, say it again, cuz I didn't get it.
Okay, okay, so, so, so understand this. Acts chapter 17 combined with 1 Thessalonians are both talking about the Thessalonians. In verse two of Acts 17:2, it says it was custom for Paul to reason from the to pre to reason from the scriptures wherever he went.
Now, now, now we're now, now we're looking... Now we're looking direct... Now we're looking...
...Yeah. Well, hold on. Let me finish the answer first. Now we're looking directly and then uh... Hold on one second. Picture. I'm going to let you finish and then um once you get finished, I'm going to let Zans get in, but, but Random also he sent in a super chat which is a question for Zans.
He want, he wants Z to clear something up. But go ahead.
Gotcha. So we have the book of Thessalonians and we have Acts 17:2 talking about what happens usually in Thessalonians. I'm, I'm making the accusation that Macdan is saying that something different is being preached from what's already in the scriptures.
All right. So question, um, Zans, um, before you uh say, say what you got to say...
...at which philosophy tithe saying, "Nothing like the good old fashioned three sacrednesses versus..."
...he says, "Son, just say that St. Paul was not exercising the infallible authority and inspire apostle ordained by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
Yeah, I'm responding to him. Um, go ahead.
So, uh, the, um, the infallibility of a person only applies as far as that person is inside the church to bind the church. When um Paul is reasoning with outsiders, um, there's nothing that Paul can declare infallibly that that other person can come to a knowledge of and say, "You know what, yes, this man is infallible. I'm going to listen to him." That's why Paul goes and inherently reasons from the scriptures, the common ground between you and the Jew was the scripture, hold not any sort of personality. Paul's personal infallibility would only bind the believers. It couldn't bind unbelievers. That would not make any sense. Even in your context, the pope can't bind an unbeliever to anything. So Paul, if he's speaking infallibly, it would only bind Christians to unc to non-Christians like the Jews, you would have to reason from their common ground, which was the scriptures, which is exactly what we see here. Um, so um for, could you go to verse uh 22 if you if you don't mind? So Paul here is trying to talk to Agrippa. He does the same thing, right? He gives a vision, a testimony of what is happening here. But if you don't mind, verse 22 and 23, could you read that? Um,
Yeah. He says, "To this day, I have the help that comes from God. And so I stand here testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would come to pass that the Christ must suffer and that uh by being the first to rise from the dead, he will proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles."
Yeah. So my point here is that when Paul is talking to uh King Agrippa and then obviously Festus immediately says what? "You've gone mad." He literally says, "You're out of your mind and you're learning great learning is driving you insane." Right? He doesn't refute what Paul is saying from the scriptures. He doesn't refute any of that. But when Paul talks to an unbeliever, he talks as if, and just quote me, "the scriptures are clear." He says nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen, the Messiah would suffer first and rise from the dead. This in Paul's mind was clear in the Old Testament. Whether whether we like it or not, he assumes it's clear enough that King Agrippa would understand it. Right?
What, what's clear that...
...that the Messiah, go read verse 22? I am saying nothing beyond what is written in the prophets and Moses that the Messiah would suffer and be the first one to rise from the dead and would message and bring bring the message of light to his own people and the Gentiles. Paul thought this was clear from the scriptures. That's why you reason from there. That's my point.
Okay. But...
...now you guys don't think it's clear, which is not, I don't know why.
No, no. What I, well, why I did that was Acts, Acts, Acts 8:30-31.
Yeah. And Peter, Peter himself even says about Paul's writings is that it's hard to understand and people twist it to their own destruction.
Now can you read verse 27? Can you read verse 27, please?
What is Paul appealing to in verse 27? I just want uh, I'm sorry, not chapter 27, verse 27. Could you just please read that?
Okay, let's, let's go.
King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know that you believe. And Agrippa says to Paul, "In a short time, you would persuade, persuade me to be a Christian." Alton, what is Paul appealing to to kick Agrippa with?
Not his personal testimony. He says...
...the oral, the oral tradition of the prophets that was written down.
Yep.
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. So, so let's clarify that.
That's truth.
Okay. So, wait.
It was oral tradition that was written down.
What? What?
If it's written down, that doesn't mean it's not an oral tradition. Well, when he's appealing to Agrippa, what does he say that Agrippa must believe? The prophets.
The prophets spoke first and then was written down.
Either way, he's appealing to what? The prophets.
What was spoken and then written?
Brother, why are you keep going to spoken, right, or written? I'm, am I like miss, is my point even being made? Is anyone understanding that he's appealing to the prophet? I understand it, but I just it what, what blow, what, but what, but what, but what, but what, but what, but what doesn't convince me is that okay Paul went to these scriptures but at the same time we have tons of other conversions where they didn't use scripture.
Okay, one. But this is what we're trying...
...show us one.
Show us one.
Show us one.
Paul...
Okay.
...another one. You want another one? The, the, the... No, he wants the text.
The text. Paul's conversion. Let's go to Paul's verses.
Perfect. Please, let's do that.
Yeah, let's do that.
What is that? Acts uh...
...it's Acts chapter... It's Acts chapter 9.
Acts 9:8. I don't know.
Acts chapter nine.
Paul got converted by...
...to go to the deep on the cross, too. He didn't need scripture to convert.
Okay. So, you're saying Paul...
He was literally talking to Christ. What are you talking about?
What do you mean? Exactly. What are we talking about? So that means, so that means that it's a lesser conversion because no, but, but watch it, but watch it, but watch this, right, right, you got, you got to hear, you got to hear what's being said to you and Alton, they're telling you, they're telling you right now that a Pharisaic Jew did not use scripture to in order to confirm anything he believes.
Like did I convert because the infallibility of the pope? Like what's going on here, bro?
Arguing the infallibility of the pope. That's y'all bringing that in to try to change the topic. The topic.
No, we're not. We're not. We're not.
No, we're trying to figure out. No, we're trying. No, no, Muk. Muk, hold on one second.
Scripture is what we're, is what we're...
Hold on. Hold on one second, Muk. Okay, this is what we're asking. We're asking cuz you guys are saying that in order for us to to um to understand the scripture correctly, we need an infallible interpreter. Exactly.
Right. So, that's why we're asking you, if that's the case when it comes to the... Hold on. Stop, brother. When it comes to the Bereans, what infallible interpreter did they use to come to the to come to the point that what Paul and Silas told them was true?
Brother, nobody's denying that they that's the exception to the rule, brother. I get so scriptor only it's only exception sometime. Okay. So, we're saying...
...we think, we think it's an example of the Prancipium.
Oh, wait. Hold on. There's somebody in the back.
Well, well, well. Well, well, that's the difference between us right now with you.
No, no, no, no. I'm focus, I'm focusing on what you're saying.
No, no, but I got...
Monk. I'm focusing on what you're saying. You're saying that...
...what I'm saying, brother. You can't cut me up and...
Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Okay. Monk, go ahead and finish what you got to say. And Pedro is going to respond to that. Go ahead.
We have thousands and thousands of conversions that were cited that they didn't. Yeah, maybe they did, but most of them didn't. We have Cornelius. We have most of Acts where they didn't go to scripture. People converted because of what they were being told from their voice, oral tradition, from traditions that were being told. JESUS CONVERTED MANY. THE SCRIPTURES WEREN'T the New Testament wasn't WRITTEN YET. PAUL DIDN'T HAVE ANY SCRIPTURES except the old scriptures. And he got everything from Jesus. He didn't need to go through those scriptures. We don't need, we do need scripture. Don't get me wrong. Nobody's denying that. Scripture today. I was about to say, brother, you, you, you better watch out.
You better watch out.
Yeah. One question.
Make that claim up. Let me...
...dude. He's going to just keep going, bro. He's going to just keep going.
No, I'm not. You just want to talk cuz you...
All right. All right. All right. All right. Last sentence, smoke and then and then we got to let Pedro respond. And plus, we got other people on the panel, too.
All this is doing is doing the Baptist argument where because Cornelius's got the Holy Spirit first, that means, oh, we could get the Holy Spirit. THAT'S JUST ALL THIS ARGUMENT is using the Bereans. That's all y'all doing, brother.
Nah, but hey, thank you guys for watching the video. Go ahead and hit that like button and if you like this particular content, hit the subscribe button as well if you have not done so. Also, check out this most recent video that I've done right here or check out some of these other videos that I've done concerning the same topic. All right, you guys have a blessed day.