Where's Max? Congratulations.

Thank you so much.

The big Dobs. I'm just gonna put you down so that I can use the board. So, we're going to put this here. There we go. Max still lives. Max lives on. All right, Daniel. We're going to put it right. We're right here. All right. We're gonna here. I'll let you here. Can you just hold this the whole time? There we go. Um, and then, uh, I hope you hold that the whole time. Um, okay. So, uh, there's usually a process that's again very detailed that we we begin with, which Sophie, you can start. Um, but basically just say what you want to get out of today and then I will write that topic and we'll kind of group them and go from there and we'll probably toss out half of them. Cool. All right, rock and roll.

Amazing. Um, I'm curious if you think that there's space for people that offer pure entertainment and no education on school. Um, kind of after what we saw happen with the Jason Derulo community and if so, how would that look?

Yeah, really good question.

Sweet. My name's Ryan. Uh, we did affiliates for the October month. Um, and I'd love to know what the plan is or what we could expect to potentially see for 2025 for school if that's something that we can go into. Um, as this is the last event of this year. So, something maybe to look forward to. Um, and then also what was more of a personal question for you, but something around what's one belief about making money you had early on that hurt your progress the most? Go for it.

Yes, my name is Max. I have some questions about like free trials and free groups. What do you think should reduce both or what do you think about that?

Yeah, I have lots of thoughts on it.

And then also how can we prepare for affiliates would be interesting. Um

what do you mean by that? Like can we create like courses and like train free trials potent or affiliates potentially or how should we think about that and then another more custom questions for us maybe but for the communities who are in line with school how can we kind of tread that the right way would also be interesting.

You mean like brandwise?

Yeah exactly. So we do it the right way and Yeah.

Hi. Uh, my name is Mason. Um I'd like to learn more today about um annual how we can like uh better improve the process to maximize annual and also about um how we can improve our coaching calls so they are more productive not too repetitive and people get max value out of them.

Really good question and I know this one's going to affect a lot of you. So, who here does some sort of call inside of their community? Yeah, I I have some like evolving thoughts on coaching calls. Obviously, we've changed the nature of the calls that we've been hosting. Is Kirby here? There you are. Yeah. Um, we've changed a lot of things, I think, and I think it's getting better. I think it continues to get better. And so, yeah, I'll share some of the stuff that that that we found.

I'm Thomas. I work with Mason and uh I wanted to know like how we can reduce the churn and increase customer happiness and and keeps them longer.

Cool.

I'm F. I'm from Taiwan and we are the Chinese market and I have a question about like um because schools is English and now it's like create a lot of friction, right? Is the word friction. So people kind of like stop there when it's so it's all English and we tried to use like uh picture graphics or the videos to like teach people how to learn to use this platform but still like create a lot of turn it like people kind of just lost. Yeah. And maybe like, is that possible have some automatically like platform training kind of thing. And the other question is like um like for the high ticket community h how should we like design a 7day free trial the customer journey to make them like oh onto that stay in there and um yeah, I think that's it. Thank you.

That's great. This is really nice. A lot of these questions we haven't had before. I'm thrilled. Sometimes they're very repetitive, so it's nice to have some some different ones.

Adamio reverse lip. Um, we for us uh we'd like to learn a few things. Um, we're really new to this, but uh the to us school is a gateway drug for entrepreneurs and uh we're building a billion dollar company behind it. Um in the first uh five weeks, we've acquired over $50 million in real estate assets through it. So I am looking more for you know what's the the bigger overall play that school could possibly you know segue into to build like a a company that could potentially exit maybe through acquisition that can arr

All right. I should have given that to Daniel. Um, all right. So, basically Cable Enterprise with him as well. Reverse flip. Um I have more tech questions. So like API type stuff um would be pretty cool like more like what is the road map for that? Um so we can do more stuff with data because I'd love to see more KPIs tying into like Facebook ads, Google that.

So specifically you're looking at you would like to have more data.

Yeah, like being able to connect to more things and do more stuff at school. Um, and more on the high ticket, low ticket as well. I'll double down on that one.

Yeah, cool.

Uh, my name is Ethan. I'm curious your thoughts and around personal finance for entrepreneurs and sort of money management and like sort of investment wise, credit card wise, account accounting, that kind of stuff on the personal side.

Mhm.

This is so wild. Like half of these are like first time questions which is really nice.

My name is Joe. I'm with Petra and the lady change and we'd like to learn about the best way to sell to upsell from a low ticket to a high ticket community.

Hi, I'm Petra with my son Joe. Um, I mean, I wanted to ask about the churn. A lot of the questions have been asked already so um everything's great.

Sure. So I'll I'll put a second strike on churn. How about that?

Hi, my name is Kevin. Um, I just want to learn how to make more money.

I think we'll hit that today.

Hi, my name is Louis. I wanted to ask about breaking out of a

So, you're looking in the mirror. My bad.

I wanted to ask about uh breaking out of a smaller niche uh but without attracting the wrong people.

You mean broader like going broader?

Yeah. So, if you're in a small niche, how to break out of that niche but without attracting a door.

When we get to that, I'll probably ask you why and then we can go from there. But narrow it to broad.

Hi, I'm Suit. Um, I'm very keen to learn a bit more about your sort of like hiring process, like how you hire like a players, retain them. Um, I've had a few issues recently where it looked really good in the interview and on paper and then it was uh was not quite what I was expecting. So,

yeah, well, you figure out how to predict someone with every single human's behavior. You have cracked a bigger code than Yeah. Everyone just picks their wife and husband on the first shot. You know, it's like, I swear this person was different the first on our first date. Yeah, that's I think it's a human issue, but we'll I can talk about some stuff.

Um, hi Chris. uh sixfigure barber mentorship. Um, so I think our one of my our biggest challenges right now is we're so broad in the barbering niche. Like we're bringing on barbers who are trying to get to six figures and then we call it the fork. Once you hit six figures, they're trying to figure out how to make it a career and invest their money all stuff. Our biggest challenge right now is we got young guys who are feeling overwhelmed by the program. It's too much information. But then we got guys who are already at the fork and they're like, "Bro, we're we're listening to the same thing over and over again on on these calls where we're trying to learn how to open more barber shops." So, I guess my biggest thing is how should should we split the program and how should we go about structuring splitting that program?

Yeah. Also, side note, it's kind of uh interesting how education works with that in that like if you think about like four-year colleges degrees, it's like you go through a thing and then you graduate. And so it seems sometimes conflating to have education and long like super long-term continuity. And so it's like how do we weave in consumable components that have to be renewed on a regular basis whereas we're trying to get someone to learn a scale or a series of scales. Um, and that's where like you know 2011 math, 301 math, 401 math, I think the same thing kind of applies for some of these opportunities. But what becomes complicated is the operational drag of basically starting yet another business for each new kind of tier and being really thoughtful about which ones are worth it and which ones aren't.

Yeah.

Dude. I got my haircut yesterday by a guy who went through your program.

Oh yeah. Yeah. It's crazy how many people So he told me the same something similar like people have been telling me left and right their barbers are checking out the program and appreciate everybody who's been uh referring the program to their barbers. Yeah. I got a guy who cut my hair four years ago who was one of your

Alec. Yeah.

Yeah. Alec Farbor, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. He's a nice guy.

All right. Cool. So, my name is Dre also with Six Figure Barters. Uh uh leading off with that question is should when we uh separate if we separate the programs, do we go a high ticket route like offer it for more expensive or just offer licensing to barber shop owners?

Yeah, very interesting question. I'm just going to put it under the same but like I we'll we'll hit it. I have a huge amount of experience with this, so I can I can talk to it. Josh, what's up? Right on. My name is Joshua. I'm two-time school games winner, youngest ever, age 16. I'm here to ask Colonz to ask

breaker of chains first of his name. Yeah. Yeah.

I need to get my 14-year-old in.

All right. So, I'm here to learn about minimizing churn for low ticket communities because we've got it set up. Our high ticket community is churning less than our low ticket and we're trying to minimize that as well to keep it growing as big as possible. Then conversion as well without any calls. So, most of our clients for high ticket, we only really convert them well going onto sales calls and value calls. And I'm here to try learning how we can do that without going on to too many calls and using as much time and effort to convert them. And then also producing evergreen content for inside school communities because quite often we've noticed our communities just die out and become inactive if we don't like go on five calls a week and post a bunch in the communities.

Got it. So churn and then high ticket automation is the primary one.

Yeah. So churn retention on producing evergreen content on school. Evergreen. All right. I'm Prince and um we did affiliates with Christian representing Christian and this month we're top three for this month on the main games and I had questions about how to get last bet sales and like spike so we can you know win the cybert truck as well as well as um the journey as an operator um like relying on a client and then you know some stuff happens and it you know I rely on them. So like is there any advice on like how I can you know

rely on an operator versus not relying is that

no relying on how I can not rely on a client but also take your advice that you mentioned before and go all in on one client if that makes sense.

Oh, you mean a partner?

A partner. Yeah.

Oh, okay. Got it. I was you said client. I was getting it. Okay. Um, okay. This is really about partnerships in general. Also, have we been public about what the next year's games is going to look like?

No. I mean, I told maybe like five people.

Yeah, well, and I was thinking about the spike thing. Basically, I don't think spikes are going to be the way to win. like SP like

like last minute.

Yeah, I don't think that's how you're going to win with the new way.

I call them pump and dump.

Yeah, that was my that was my more kosher way of saying it.

You just have to do too much pumping uh to win. There's a longer term pump uh is really really we want the longest term pumping without dumping is really the idea.

You could call it a you could call it a perma pump. Um,

go ahead.

Yeah, I'm Dak. I run ads for Logan and uh I was just wondering about sales followup. Like who's important to follow up with? How do you follow up? I didn't really see much about that before. These fresh markers are so nice. Kind of like fresh socks. It's like the little things.

I don't wear socks. I thought you didn't wear socks.

Yeah.

I don't wear socks, but I from what I understand.

I heard about it.

Yeah, it's like a newborn child. I don't have any, but I'm sure it's nice.

I hear they smell great. Go ahead.

I'm interested in uh how you think school could be used for like other businesses that aren't using it right now. like um possibly like a product supplement business and stacking on like how bodybuilding.com used to kind of do that.

Yeah.

Oh yeah. I want to hit on this actually pretty hard because I think it's really interesting.

Yeah. Like with the barber like you guys like every barber shop should have a school community for all of their customers. Like there's no reason why they wouldn't shouldn't have that. They just get more repeat users like it develops their own kind of

Yeah. And then you get an affiliate from everyone.

Yeah. That's cool.

Can I add something as well?

Um just based on like with free trials and free groups since we do like sales calls. I just want to know like your opinion on where to kind of like weave that in the process.

Where? Sorry.

Okay, I got you. No worries. Yeah.

Where we've sales follow up into the process.

Yeah. Just like cuz right now it's like free group sales call into the paid group. But we might be thinking of doing like free group to free trial and then having the onboarding call in the free trial instead. Just want to know your thoughts on if that was a good idea or not.

Yeah, where was that? That was that we had this little customer journey with the trial thing. I'll just put a second line there. Michael sends up a baby finish up that

Do you guys mind if we just finish the circle real quick or actually are you the last one T you want to go or any

because I'll just work I'll just I'll just work our way through the

whole

these guys.

Yeah, she go for it.

I'll get you though.

We'll speak louder into this one. Uh yeah, you can put another line for that.

Okay, my journal there. Um, another one is like how to best structure or transition from like one-on-one to group uh

or delivery.

Yeah, great.

Um, and then higher ticket offers through school uh with like the limitations of price points. I was curious uh yeah how to do that or what might be changed. Uh and leanest or team structure going from like 100 to uh half mil a month like what's the leanest or

Yeah.

Just you, man. That's definitely the optimized team.

Is it just you? That's definitely

Yeah.

Yeah. Uh my name is Alexander. I'm here with Dan Zay Dan. Uh yeah, Quantum Collective is our company and this round we won with Backpack which is our uh software that goes with school. Uh so my question is around um the scalability of uh delivery of transformation on the coaching front. So, we've seen with sales, you have a DM setter, DM closer. Seeing if anyone has good strategies for DM coaching, DM delivery beat,

DM delivery, takes sliding into the DMs to another level.

Uh, I guess I'm the poster boy today. and uh

poster child.

poster child. [Laughter]

And uh it's great to be here. I'm happy that

for the eighth time,

seventh and it's it's really revolutionized my business. The stuff that uh you've talked about in the last games and No, I'm serious. like, well, I can bring up some numbers to prove it, but I now I just have some strength that maybe I'd like to go a little bit deeper into and then you can tell me if I would be in the right place or not. And then

what do you think the question is?

I would say I think the constraint is is like lead choose where you comfortable with those leads.

Sam and I were literally talking. We're like, I wonder if D's going to be able to ask a question today. Like yesterday, I was like, I wonder if he's going to ask a question. So, I'm excited that you're asking.

Oh, question.

Yeah.

I'm sure I'll I'll be there soon.

Yeah, I'm sure you'll think something.

Yeah. Yeah.

Go for it.

My make I should say is our delivery on the mastermind that we're running right now. Uh so if we mastermind group cap 100 I would like to know how we can deliver the best results for them and also all the metrics that we need to track um to optimize our delivery for the mastermind and the master class both our purpose.

So delivering a mastermind.

Yes, exactly and the metrics that we need to track with that basically for both our communities. So also our low community.

Yeah, the metrics will be the same.

Okay, perfect. So, I'll save that one.

Okay, that's awesome. And then also the last time I came here, I asked personal question.

Yeah.

And but we didn't get to answer that.

Okay. I'm

curious if I I'm allowed ask the question again.

Sure.

Also, you're the man that uh well wants to live and had nothing left to give.

Sure.

And my question is, do you think having children

Yeah.

um adds to that or takes away from it? Now you remember it having

No, I didn't. I didn't. But uh that funny children question mark. There we go.

Yeah. Is that what I did last time?

Yeah. Same. Feel the same way.

Yeah. My name is Marles with Puna and I want to learn about building a sales team. uh scaling with the sales team and any tips by hiring how you should be training etc. It's your tips on

Yeah, they start a big sales team.

Yeah, cool. A lot of sales stuff. It's like our sales corner over here.

I'm also with school masterass and my question is how do we align key incentives across our different departments so to say in like per one wall central Even though we're all doing different stuff.

Yes. Um, I'm rich with Kron Safio. Um, billiond dollarar suro community. Um tends to have a backs over here. We're we're number one and two like all day. Oh.

So who's the goat today?

Oh, we are definitely number one. Oh, there you go. Our requirement. The guys are like, "Yeah, you're not doing it. You're a thick." Oh, man. Because I have to wear a goat shirt, right? Um, but yeah, shout outs to you guys. Great pressure. Shout outs to Kevin as well. Great games in September. Um, my question and it's it's all about the sales process. The main thing that I focus on is ramping up the sales process and iterating on it. There so my real question is about school and how we can best use school and how we can change our campaign. what I call the campaign cycle like hey now it's 10k now it's only 9k now it's free like how we can iterate through that throughout a month and how you might do it

like a promotional schedule.

A promotional schedule.

Okay.

And how we can align our sales process with that because right now our enrollment calls is what I call when they're not sell it's like a 4-minute signup call and that's really really cool but Sam is like just send them to the adult page and our ads guy only wants to run ads straight to the adult page and I'm like send them to the funnel because our sales reps can eat.

Yeah.

And how would you balance out those two with the right promotion cycles so that you always have these big

uh perma pumps?

Herbop pumps.

It's the best kind of pump.

All right. So the question is

scheduled perma pumping sales process development.

Yeah. So, it's how are you going to like how are you going to let people know about your stuff on a consistent basis with changing pricing

with changing in topper?

We'll probably have to go deeper on it when we get there, but okay. Promo cycle.

Yeah, you probably should start another business.

Okay. Should we start with children? Um,

no. We already got Daniel here. We're good. time.

You hit the last time this exact same joke.

Very consistent.

Still worse and I forgot.

More better than you.

You know, I want to actually of of these ones I I want to briefly hit on this other business use case um the thing you were talking about and I think it also affects you a lot too um but I've been seeing um a bunch of um B2B creators especially uh coming in and I think there's like I think there's a big opportunity here, especially on the affiliate side. We're going to be pushing the affiliate side harder. Um, so there'll be more opportunities there in the future. But like like every gym owner should have a school community for their gym. Every barber should have a community for their barber shop. Every realtor should have a place for all of their existing people who bought houses. Every general contractor who did kitchen remodels. Like I basically think that every business fundamentally like every business has a community. It's just whether it's happening on accident or on purpose. And so I think that you'll increase the likelihood that good things happen if you do it on purpose rather than allowing it to occur by chance. And so I think like anybody who's a B2B creator would benefit from explaining how to put everyone into school and then have a regular communication cadence with them because the deliverability of of messaging of making a post like 100% of people will see it. They can also interact because they all have the same, you know, needs. people who are, you know, getting their haircut and stuff probably, I would imagine if they're going to a similar barber, probably have similar styles. Uh, and so there's probably like other things that people, you know, would connect within within within those communities, right? And same thing with, you know, e-commerce. Like if you have an e-commerce store, like you could do email follow-up, and you should, but you it probably would also benefit to have a community for for your customers where you can like thank you page, like ask them to join, ask them to leave reviews, ask them to buy more stuff, find out feedback on the product. And I think all of that stuff is so much more valuable is so valuable. Um, and really I mean like fundamentally I think that's how you can build a brand like in a microwave like way faster. Even like a like a tiny micro community of just rabid fans and from every every wealthy person that I know that's built a very big business they talk about have it's better to have a hundred fans who absolutely adore you than have a thousand who like kind of like you. And I think that building a school community around this that's why I think every business should have one. Um, and so yeah, there's my TLDDR answer for that one. But um, was that was when you said other business use cases, did you have any other particular questions around that?

Uh like maybe how you would build it specifically for like a gym or a supplement company like what would be the value like if you have let's say like uh like influencers or like partners, right? Like would a Q&A be valuable like with professional athletes that are backing like a supplement brand?

Yeah, I think well uh it depend. So, I would chunk up this. So, it's like if you if you chunk up from a niche to like an overall like if if you're doing haircut, it's like you could talk about hair stuff all day, but it's probably because people want to look good, right? So, that's where like style like and other other things probably like would blend into that. Um, if I'm a gym owner or I'm a supplement owner, it's like my groups would probably be relatively similar because I'm not just going to talk about like the gym. I'm going to talk about all the other ancillary interests the people who buy my product also share.

to complete that.

Yeah, exactly. So, it's like if I had a gym, I would probably talk about the supplement stuff, too, but I'd also talk about workouts and probably talk about like, hey, who's meeting up to do hiking on the weekend? Who's Yeah. And so, I think that's it's facilitating community, which I know we're putting a lot of time and effort into. Ted's going to be helping us out next year, like trying to facilitate more inter intercom community stuff. I'm actually going to hit on this if you guys agree with it. So um I have so like we I I kind of see think like two big bets that we're willing to go all in on which are on polar opposites which is like AI and IRL and so it's like how do we basically is it there's all the AI stuff and then I also think there's this massive demand for inerson experiences real life things and so um I had a really good conversation with Ben Francis who's the uh CEO of Gym Shark if you guys have heard I know the UK guys probably have. But um I'll compress a whole day into like a sound bite, but basically he felt that their most competitive strategy was that they had built an online business offline. And so when they looked at a map of where their pockets of high frequency purchases were, they were all in the areas that he had started attending like fitness expos. But the the dollar sales far exceeded what he would sell at those conferences. And so there's an order of magnitude multiplication of people who saw him in person and then total 20 people and those people bought. And so I I think that like who here has met with their community in person? Anyone? Okay, cool. So you've met with your people, the ones who who came in person, do you feel like those people will ever leave?

Right. And so it's like, okay, if we know there's a way to create a permanent customer, how do we facilitate that happening with as many of them as fast as possible? And so obviously there's like kind of two types of events that you could run. One would be like a sponsored event, one that's like this is an official group event that we're hosting, but then there's obviously the between them. And I think that both are valuable. Like there's been tons of school meetups across that like we haven't really like funded or been a part of, but it's been good for school overall. And so I think facilitating that kind of stuff um and try rather than again have like we should do this. It's like do it more regularly and do it on purpose. Um, and that's why I think that like it's the it's the back and forth between IRL and online. So it's like you guys at the barber shop like they're they're in in real life and then they'll also be far more likely to want to reconnect online and then the people online want to connect in person. But people just want connection in in the diff the different and various mediums that are available. Yeah. I I know we got a lot of topics to cover. Um, but I'd really like to unpack that even more maybe later on because we we're actually going to an expo tomorrow.

Yeah.

So to be able to kind of test that, you know, how I would how

Honestly, I think you just give them something really amazing for joining the free community or joining your community. So I just basically do like doing inerson like a lot of you guys do phone sales and so the only thing section than phone sales is in person sales. Has anybody ever sold in person? Okay, a couple. Okay, good. Nice. Great. The real world. Uh, like yeah, it's way better. More tiring, but way better. Uh, and so like the sales are so much more genuine. They saw you in person. They know you're like they see your avatar and all of their memories and experiences about you in the real life kind of transfers your to your inerson avatar.

How would you do that? Like cuz we have a I'm speaking on stage to like there's going to be a thousand people there.

Yeah. Call to action and then you can meet everybody in the back. Yeah. And I think if you offer to like take a picture, have a conversation with anybody who like joins the community, you probably have a line for a [ __ ] two hours. I say that not having known that.

Do you know you can do it? You know, you can do a QR code to your community.

Oh, yeah. You go to a QR just Google QR code generator and put your school link in there and it will give you a QR code. Then everyone can just scan it and it will just open up your about page.

Yeah.

Yeah. That will work.

So, let's say you had a plumbing company uh or electrician company. How would you have a school community around that?

It'd probably be around things that people do to improve their homes.

Oh, nice.

What did you say?

Things that people would do to improve their homes. I'm trying like chunking up like what would like what would somebody who cuz you like you got Dan the plumber who comes in, he fixes your sink. Now, will everybody join? No. But if you don't have something then like it's better than nothing.

I don't know if that one fits.

I have an electrician client. Eve runs a sevenf figureure business and he has a community on school for other electricians that want to

Yeah. That that I see. Yeah. The B2B, but I don't want to connect with other dudes who hired a plumber.

No. You know, it's interesting about yesterday who's got um easy pest solutions. Well, I'll share it this way, which is that when I was uh when we lived in this uh HOA with all of these house moms, uh when there was a vendor who would come, people would want to know vendor stuff. So, it could be more communitydriven around home services. Again, it's like if you chunk up high enough, there's something that people can have in common. Um I agree that that particular use case is harder, but again, I I would rather try and think how can I solve this?

So, home home maintenance. Yeah. So like thinking about the broader picture instead of just plumbing that makes more sense.

A school a school version of Next Door Next Door app.

And if you were the one who owns that community, how valuable is that?

We have like a like in my home service business real business and life like we have like refer or like referral partners. So like we could offer like value to the customers like 20% off Alex's plumbing and I'm a landscaper. And then you're providing value for that customer. And then you vet the contractor cuz there's so many bad ones. I feel like it could work in that way.

And they refer you back business cuz you sent them business. Yeah.

And price guides would be helpful.

Yeah.

Cuz you know, you don't know what the hell something costs when you go on Yelp.

I had a call yesterday with his the exact thing. He's a runs a pest easy pest solutions. He's not even licensed. And he was like,

No, it's like it's like home like it's like it's it's DIY. And he has a school community and it's not for the business owner. It's for the general public. And I'm like, you don't ever want to connect with people. It's like, how do I get rid of my ants? You just Google it. So, the situation we've got with him now is he'll have his group as public and he'll focus on SEO and he'll try and rank for all the top performing, how do I get rid of a bat in my house or how do I get rid of an ant that's going on in my house and then bake affiliate links into each of the posts that come through to make money that way. So, instead of being a private community, it's public. So people can scan and look through and if they want to contribute then they can join the community which then has the um membership approval. So he's got the questions and stuff there to do that and then if he wants to eventually look at doing like the affiliate with actual businesses in those areas or just call people for and say I'll find someone for you kind of thing.

One of the most engaged communities on the platform is a community called Real Men Real Style and the owner he owns a ecom business and he sells clothes and washes to the people in the community. It works really well. But it's free communities around something that people

See the exact same thing with the barbers like that. If if you looked at that uh group as like a model for what what like engagement for a barber would be, not for you guys, but for like what a barber would look like BTO to direct to consumer. I think that would probably be a great like place to start. We have a we have a Facebook group community, a free one that has 30,000 members, but it's terrible. Like I have no reach to the community that I built. How could I go about getting them from there to our free school community?

Kirby has like a how to take your Facebook group into school group like SOP.

Okay, cool. Send you a link for school.

Yeah. Yeah.

Real quick, what do you think about like maybe a city page for the home services cuz I do floor codings like Bloomington events or something as opposed to the

I didn't have Huntington Beach moms. Like come on. That was my first gym was Huntington Beach. You know what I mean? Like you like Yeah. If you can seem like an impartial impartial third party and then just nudge your product

like a news.

Look, this one wins again. The five star review like these guys cleaning up. Yeah.

Business of the week.

Yeah. Yeah. Business of the week. 52 weeks in a row. You guys are just crushing it.

No.

That's a killer idea.

All right.

Yeah.

We feel good on the other business use case. Like basically if you're e-commerce thank you page and then asking your customers. That makes that makes sense. If you're brick and mortar around a specific service, that's usually straightforward. If it's one-off home services, probably have to chunk up to home improvement in general, and then you can create a community around that. And the thing is is that with the the plumbing example that we that Ted had, if you created a home improvement community, that plumber did, right? And he talks about all sorts of home improvement stuff, then other people will join that community and they'll get invited to that community and then those become leads so that when they do have plumbing problems, they call the plumber, right? So, I think that that's how I think about that. Cool. On this one? Yeah. Shoot.

Um, what about like an entertainer, like a DJ?

Do you think

for like a local area?

No, like a like a music producer, DJ.

I mean, I think having a community for I mean, this gets into the entertainer uh question we had earlier. I'll um Oh, shoot. That's a good transition. Let's just do that. So, um check. Yay. All right. One down. Uh so uh I think I mean Sam and I have talked about this at a lot of length of like how the best way for entertainers and I think a lot of it is is building free communities knowing that you can sell stuff in those communities that are like that's where you can drop tickets. That's it's just like think of it as like a far more engaged it's like if stories became a community you know like far more direct access. I think that because we haven't I don't think we've seen a really anyone like really crush uh entertainment directly. Uh but I think having the communities that are free that can bring lots of people in um I then creates this captive audience that you can then do whatever you want with. I think that's the that's how I would use that's how I would use it if I were an entertainer. I think the sticking point there might be like what content like you know would you put in there like what you know to keep it alive and to keep it going and stuff.

No, it's a it's a super good question. Um and I think a lot of entertainers have this issue like comedians is straightforward. They can just like talk about the news and make fun of it, right? But like musicians, it's like they can, you know, show what they're working on that's like work in progress. Cuz there's there's a bunch of musicians that have done really well with this, like documenting like versions of songs, tiny clips, like how they're work like working on a beat like kind of like a lot of the behind the scenes stuff. The thing is is that I don't think people have huge have like tremendous value for that. I think people will watch it. I don't think a lot of people would pay for it, which is why I lean more towards like make it free, get all your people into it, and then use it from there as this captive audience you can do other stuff with rather than like do I charge $6 a month for that? Like I'd rather just I'd rather just have the pool of all my people and then when I drop my tickets or whatever it is, I'll I'll have a higher ticket take rate. There's a there's a band I don't know if anyone knows of tulle but they have this thing called tool army and so you can essentially join their membership with the way that they would lock it in to pay more at the beginning if you get some like merch stuff.

And then it's just everything behind the scenes like these guys play rock music they also make wine and so it's like they don't show anyone else this except for the two army exclusive content but they they up the price by posters.

I think the merch stuff makes a lot of sense because a lot of people like they want to feel like inroup and like you know, it's just like you voting it's a it's an identity thing. It's like yeah, I'm a fan of these people because I think they're music rocks or whatever. Um that makes sense. So yeah, I mean, it's the same idea. It's like can I sell other stuff to that community? Obviously t-shirts, merch, all that stuff kind of work outside of tickets. I do a lot of this in the UK with like gaming content creators like the Simmen and a lot of these guys because I manage influencers and they do like basically like Netflix style platforms that they make separately with like you screen is the platform that they mainly use and the whole point of it is just like bringing that much bigger audience into smaller space that you know they can charge $6, $6.99 just get that commitment and then they incentivize via like the discounts with merch via like behind the scenes content that you can't publish on YouTube because obviously we get restrict ricted and banned and people tend to want to see that process a lot more. So, a lot of people do that in the kind of gaming or entertainment space like UK YouTubers.

I think having an angle of like I'm not allowed to publish this on the main platforms is a really good one. I don't know how true it is, but like if you

So, the side men definitely can't publish this stuff.

I know. I'm sure. I'm sure. But I'm saying like if like a normal musician's like I can't post this beat that I'm making on in will cut me.

Yeah. Yeah. I will.

It depends. I guess it depends on the contents though.

I'll get Shadow Banned if I told you what I'm really doing, you know? I mean, I'd be like, I'll buy Stay $6 to find that out. Yeah. I I mean, um I'm I've I've been I mean, we've I've been looking for somebody who's done entertainment really well uh on the community. I've seen the obviously we've seen the free free audiences and then selling other products through the community like the fragrance one like he sells those things to that audience. Um, and I think it's a dollar and cents trade-off. You just look, okay, well, I make more money if I have a smaller, you know, smaller amount of people paying me $6 a month versus having way more people and then one out of 10 of those or one out of 20 of that larger group buys merch two times a year when I drop it. It's just like what's the average revenue per group member over a year and looking at the difference.

Sophie, we get yours. Do you feel okay with that or do you want to ask anything else?

Um, yeah, I feel pretty good. The kind of specific person I'm thinking of working with is a professional FNX writer.

Oh. So, it's very hard. Like, you could obviously not teach what he does.

Yeah.

He can't

um not through school.

No, like videos and like things like that. Like behind the scenes like how to do this type of trick and things like that.

I don't think. So.

Like a triple back flip through.

It's very

Well, you teach like a like a a single one, right? Like just the the handle spin and then you like this is like like motorbike.

Oh, motorbike. Do they have a lot of tricks?

I actually, I'm super unaware.

Small bat flips. Well, is this Harry [ __ ] or him?

Yeah, we had a chat, but he had a really bad accident last time.

He had a what?

He had a bad accident cuz we were talking about last time we were young.

Nick.

Didn't get back to me for a while.

I did it.

So, as as as a writer who's just been injured, it's like the income stops.

He's coming pretty late into his career now and I can see he's,

you know, needs to figure out what's what's the next step. But he's very big into mindset. He does all sorts of crazy bass jumping and stuff like that. So, I think um

he could just do a free one and then there's probably opportunities for sponsorships and other things.

Discounts of tickets and stuff or or like affiliates for tickets or something if he drives himself.

Yeah, but motocross is a super tight community. They're like a cult like because it's a weird thing. Not many people are that crazy.

For him, I think he has such a big audience but the stuff he does is so insane. Um, I think a lot of people are interested in the mindset that he

has and how he got there. So, I think that could be a potential angle to take.

Yeah. Yeah, I've always I've been I've been super torn on this cuz it's like on one hand, you know, we had the the the Derulo thing, right, where it's like how big's the audience versus how much they want the thing inside of the community, which is why I think I've leaned more towards the free like just build as get as many people in there and then have alternative ways to monetize.

The one benefit with educators is like education will always have a smaller audience than entertainment because there's no effort in entertainment. you just have to be there and consume it and you don't have to do anything. Whereas education you have to change your behavior and so there's always fewer people willing to do the next step. Um but the benefit of education is there's so many ways to monetize it. So many different mediums like you can do inperson workshops, you can do webinars, you can do groups, you have a you can sell a course, you can sell like there's so many different like there's so many different things you can sell whereas entertainers it's much more difficult and typically it's like it's typically physical products that are sold through the through the eyeballs of the people that they have the captive attention of. And so if you think about television, all of that's entertainment and then the advertisers pay for that entertainment by just saying, "Oh, buy my soap, buy my like it's it's usually products that are very easy for people to understand and immediately purchase." Like if you look at the the Mr. Beast and the Logans, it's like it's drinks and food and things that people can immediately, you know, alcohol is one that, you know, the comedians, a lot of them have their own alcohol now. Fragrances, like those are all things that entertainers get into as their way of monetizing. Rihanna has Fenty. Like it's a common theme that they'll go physical products to their large distribution base rather than like how to sing by Taylor Swift.

Yeah. How many people are in this tool army thing? This made me interested because I've been looking for a musician example. How many people do you know?

I'm not sure but it's um it's kind of like a Grateful Dead vibe where they're like they're very

How much does it cost?

I can't remember. Maybe 200 300 a year. Something like that. I'm sure it's

55 bucks a year.

Okay. Yeah. How many does it say? How many people? What's this up the top?

Just don't care. No,

there was a number up then. Oh,

that was 563,000 community members apparently

paying 50 bucks a year.

Do that, man.

I don't know if that's right.

So 500,000.

It's like 30 million.

If that's real,

we found it.

Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that feels not true.

But if that's true

Oh, yeah. If it's true, it'd be great.

Then we just discovered some [ __ ]

And like if that is Yeah.

Yeah. The thing with that if someone identifies it like they're not leaving ever

like they're Yeah. There's like people wearing Grateful Dead. Yeah. Same. Well,

are they not kind of just buying merch though and getting that as an additional at that point? they're getting uh like exclusive access to like events and messages from the band, like custom messages just for those people, things like that.

So, $55 a year gets you merch and access to the group and some others as well.

So, this is actually a trend in music right now, which is being independent. Yeah.

Like the new artists that are up and coming, they don't have labels.

Mhm.

It's like self-publishing for books.

They fund themselves with their communities. So they're very good at building community.

Yeah.

And yeah, they fund it through merch events, but it is a community that's tying all of it together, but I haven't seen someone just explicitly charge a membership for it, which is why this is really interesting.

Buying it.

Yeah, we're buying it right now. Let's

There we go. Yeah.

Yeah. Gear fill like No, I think again it's the like does Taylor Let me put it this way. Taylor Swift makes more money not teaching how to sing. If you're an educator, you'll make more money teaching how to educate. And within the context of school, we found that people in terms of by headcount, education is more efficient at monetizing, but you monetize a smaller base per person. Educators will make more. Entertainers have more people,

right?

I make more money per person in my audience than Mr. Beast does by a [ __ ] mile. Mr. Beast has more people and he sells lower ticket products to them. Let's talk about coaching calls because I think this is going to hit a lot of you guys. So Curb Diggity Dog and I have have gone through many iterations of the coaching call stuff. And so it's like in the beginning we did like we just made it very like opening and closing ceremony focused and then we transitioned to Q&A and then I think that Q&A is really valuable if you get your question answered and is very not valuable if you don't get your question answered which can happen one of two ways. either you go in with the question, someone else has your question and then it's valuable or you get your question directly answered. But if neither of those things happen, basically the call has to function as entertainment.

Um, and so we have transitioned to basically a more one to many style of Q&A because basically after like call it 50 or 100 people on a call, it's really difficult to answer kind of everyone's questions. like with 50 people, maybe only 15 of them or 20 of them have have questions they come with. The other ones they can like at least in the chat you can address them and it's like you can kind of cover everyone but uh like I think our calls now are like 300ish.

Yep. 300.

Yeah. And so at that point it's it's it's it's kind of even at that level there basically there's like no difference between 300 and 3,000. It's it's too many uh to be like independently valuable for the individual people on it. And so I do think it's a that the nature of the calls changes as the number of the people who attend the calls increases. So it's not like what is the perfect call, it's what's the perfect call based on the ratio that's that is present. And so they look at this in like teaching institutions. One of the things that like parents will look at is like what's the ratio of students to uh to teacher, right? And if you have one-on-one, it's a different teaching style than you know oneon-one six. And then after like 20 teachers in a live setting, basically it's the same as an auditorium because they don't really have enough time to do any individual. It's more like lecture and problem sets. And so if we're to take the same like thought process for how we do um calls, I basically have call 30ish minutes that I prepare um for the calls of like this is the top of mind thing that I want to talk about this week. relevant examples, stories that make it entertaining.

Um, and then I will take the like two or three most important questions that I think that may be relevant to that topic for the week and then answer those in depth. And that's more or less what I've uh what we've shifted the calls towards. And I think the feedback's been like pretty pretty strongly positive in that direction.

So based on the topic that you're talking about, you kind of assume what the questions by D and then answer those. They they actually ask questions and then Kirby goes through and just like picks the ones that are like pretty good and typically related to that. Yeah. I also think it's helpful because to your point of like hey I feel like these calls can get repetitive. It's like well if we're if we're if we have a little bit more of a topic now a topic can still be like it'll still affect everyone but I'm talking about what like marketing will still affect everyone who has a business. Sales will affect everyone who has a business but it's like if I talk about that one specific thing rather than having like seven topics on the call. It allows us to theme the videos better too. And so also I think the videos become more valuable in post because like right now we have like 10 times the amount of people who watch after the call versus who watch who are attending live which to me is an indication the call itself is valuable rather than just getting your question answer being valuable. Does that make sense? Like difference

I think people treat it like a podcast.

Yeah. Well, I'm that's where I basically

are the are the people that show up and the recording is that and it changes a bit, but it's got a consistent frequency and you feel like you're up to date with the community.

Yeah. Um, I also think a good tip would be to never do a call alone cuz if you think about a community vibe, I think it was really good that you see Horoszi and Kirby and then at the end of the games event, it was Kirby and Matthew and even Daniel was on there. And when that means that you don't need people to ask questions or do stuff to have the energy going or like it can just kind of go on its own and then and it feels more like a community because a lot of people don't know each other yet. But when they see the chemistry between the people on the call, it immediately feels like they're a part of something. You know what I mean? It's it's so funny that you said that because I have uh like my content team has just started using the beginning of the school games parts as podcast episodes. And so they're like these are like podcasts and I was like yeah dude use them. And so if you think about it as a live podcast with a live audience um I think that's also but I think I think this is where everyone here is is going to is falling short is that no one here preps. like people just turn on live and just expect that their presence is valuable and that is well look at your churn maybe not true and so I think I think actually coming in with some bullets and some narratives um and the way that I do this because I've been doing podcast has been my longest platform that I've been able to maintain since July of 17 and the way that I've I've been able to consistently create content is that whenever an interesting thing happens throughout the week I just slack it to myself or I email it to myself and then when I get into the um when I get into the podcast mode or whatever, I I open up my doc that has like the weird things that happened that week and I'm like, "Oh, this is a really good one." And then I I kind of know what I was going to talk about because I have the the the quick line of story and then like three or four bullets that I think are relevant. And just with like just the narrative and the three to four takeaways, that's usually enough for me to kind of make a podcast. Now, if you're not as experienced with that, then you'll probably have to push, you know, do a little bit more prep, but that's just something that you learn with skill. Does that make sense? So, I think a lot of you could make your calls significantly more valuable if you thought of them as like YouTube videos or podcasts rather than just these random things. And think that people will watch these. You want people to be like, "Oh, you have to watch the video he did on the 11th because he's got a great thing on this." Rather than like, "Oh, all the Q&A calls are the same."

Yeah. Shoot. How how do you deal with say for example you've had someone in your community say for like three months right and they're way more advanced now than someone just joining and then a call for that person is super basic right comparative to someone new how do you balance those sort of things I guess I get it obviously the marketing topic right but does the fundamentals vs someone who's now been doing it for three four five months

it's a good question I do think it kind of teases at the the question that you guys are dealing with which is like at some point people kind of graduate and in the beginning you only have a couple people who graduated But if you wait long enough, you'll have a good amount of pressure at that next level. And then it can make sense to open up the the you know, basically you create another barrier that more people have to hop over and then you get to elevate the level of conversation. Like I talk about almost nothing that's like higher level business on the school calls.

We do uh we do uh one day a week. It's purely for the new members and they have to attend it one time. And then what we do is gamify the ability to get one-on-one time with us. based on actions we want them to take to grow the group.

You can also interview that person.

Yeah, that's what Dan is doing. Like hot seat calls. People love that

cuz that's what we do. They go on the school stories podcast and then everyone gets to hear from them. So they they're still useful. The fact that they're successful is they can just instead of asking questions, they might be able to share their story.

Yeah. Yeah, I've been doing a lot more interviews recently with the guys who are further on and then that's been quite valuable because it's not coming from me. It's coming from someone in their situation.

Yeah, it gives them status too. People are less likely to leave a community of status in

cuz like you're only cool in this community.

I don't know like live coaching um with one person. So I take one person on the hot seat basically coach that person while others are watching. So it's like improved coaching but I basically onetoone coach that person and then I allow other people also to within their inputs about that sort of topic to help up and then I break them out in breakout rooms so they can take all the discussion further with themselves really people are really love

one little add-on to that which is like a mental thing that we invite people into is this idea like the law of one right so if I'm coaching you okay everyone imagine you're in you're in his business.

Yeah, I just shared.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's effectively how I started as well. Yeah, perfect.

Love that for us.

Um, well, does that help with the coaching call iterations question around that? I do think that if you have too many basically if the if the number of a of different customers that you're serving starts to become too diverse that might not be a how do I how do I change my coaching call question and more like how do I attract more of the same person so I can provide the same solution issue and I think that they that might be more of a messaging problem uh unless every one of those people is like gradu graduatees or whatever alumni and then at that point then it makes sense to have the the next level but making sure that we're solving the problem. So, it's like if I have a gym owner community, I've got a bunch of trainers that are hopping on and then a bunch of like multilocation owners, then I'm probably not doing a good enough job screening on the front end for whatever the product is that I'm selling. All right. Coaching call iteration. Yeah, shoot.

Um, we do two different type of calls. one with community owner where like there is 300 plus sometimes people attending but uh others all throughout the weeks uh with different topics with specific coach covering different topics do you think it's uh um relevant at all to do Q&As's because questions are all the same even if there is not many people and they get their question answered like every time the same so it's difficult to keep the coach uh like to do it over time because like they get bored

yeah it's crazy because We've never had anyone ask about term before. That was a that was the first time that we've had that one.

Um, and so I'm I'm playing around. Um, I think I think a way to reframe it for the for the coach is that every situation is unique. And so it's like how can I apply this model to a situation? It'll just help them kind of break the the the monotony of it. But in terms of should they have Q&A? Um, I would be making up uh an answer. I do think that Q&A at scale is not that valuable. I think that this that the permutation that um Dylan was talking about uh of doing one to oneonone in front of people I think can be valuable as long as the people are attending are similar to that person. And so that's where um like if there was a version of this, it'd be like, okay, we'll do I'll go deep on this guy who's a six-f figureure guy. And so only six figure guys come on. If you're smaller, you will you can attend if you want, but like it's probably not going to be relevant for you. And if you're a smaller, you can go deep on somebody who's who's smaller. Like that could be a different version of that. Sweet. I already checked that one off. Um, so who had the annual annual piece annual maximum date? Like who's like okay so um what was the Yeah. What's the what's the question about it? Um before uh launching school we were selling like 700 one-time courses and we had like great conversion rate on our webinars through this. Now we launched the school uh we get way more people joining but trend is very high and lifetime value is about like $300.

Okay. Do you get more than twice as many people to buy the community than bought the course?

Uh in the short term yes. I don't know how it's going to go in the long term since

300. So, it's like we need to have whatever uh 2.2 or whatever the math is, you know, more people and then you still make more money even if it's at a lower price. Does that make sense?

Yes.

But you had the question about annual maximization. So, what was what was that? Um, should we um maximize uh and only getting like we are thinking about removing the monthly and only doing annual through the community.

I would absolutely test it. I mean annual for sure will have lower churn. So it's just it's so the nice thing is so this is probably a common thing that's worth like everybody like taking note of is that um a lot of these questions are solvable with testing and math which is like how much how many more people do I need to sell or how many fewer people will I have to sell in order to make this amount of money that equates to what I was doing you know doing before and then you're like does this bet seem reasonable like there was a decision that we were looking at uh in gym launch last quarter they're like hey we're thinking about making this pricing change and I was like okay Well, hold on. Like, how many more units do we need to sell at this churn rate for this to make sense? And so, it ended up being like two and a half times the front-end sales. I was like, do you think this change of offer is going to generate two and a half times the lead flow and keep the same conversion rate? And the executing was like, I don't know. And I was like, then it's probably not make worth making the bet. But being able to quantify it and say like, we'd have to close at least three times as many at least it gives you some reasonable guess that you can guess something more specific. And if you make the guess, you'll find out. But at least he gives you one step of kind of like in between. But I think one of the cool I think I still think annual is being wildly underutilized right now. I think by like like school people in general. Um, because I think one of the cool things that um Sam and Daniel and the whole team built in is that basically annual allows you to function as a second entire tier of membership. And so with annual, you can unlock different things that people at the monthly level don't get. And so you can have a comp like it doesn't like let's say it's $10 a month for your thing. Annual doesn't need to be less. Annual could be a,000 and it could come with a whole bunch of other stuff. And so like it doesn't have to always relate to what your what your monthly rate is. Does that make sense?

I have that I have 5K annual and 99 running through the same group. um works like a charm. I speak to all my high ticket clients on WhatsApp and my uh monthly members um are just in the community. um the paid members just get those low ticket just get access to calls and a miniourse of like what the high ticket clients get. So I take all the information I learn with all my high ticket clients then give the low ticket members that and then I just launched for like a two-day thing uh the end.

Was it Black Friday?

It was Black Friday. Yeah. I launched a Black Friday deal and then realized it wasn't Black Friday. Um, still worked though. But yeah, I just I put annual in for the low ticket members to upgrade. The only thing right now is if your members join at your monthly amount and the annual on like that specific one and you change your annual price, say to do like I did $800 I think for the low ticket people, they have to currently leave the community then rejoin. You can't change the price. So that's something that I'd love to get fixed on school. Um, but it works really good. I had a community of like 10 high ticket clients and now there's like 55 low ticket plus high ticket

to upgrade to annually saying they have to quit and then come back.

Yeah, the guy the upgrade thing he had was 5k but the price was 800 so it's like kind of stuck. So the current workaround is he had to leave and then rejoin. But yeah,

is uh is there any plans on the annual crisis expending beyond 499 or or is that like a limitation?

How much would you pay?

We 10k.

Why not give it away for

Kevin Wong 10k?

He's got 10ks. 5k. So, if you could So, I'll I'll restate Sam's question differently. Uh, if you could charge $10,000 or $20,000 a year as your billing rate, what would you change about what would you be willing to pay in your subscription price change from $99 a month? We incur a ton of risk.

Double.

Yeah. He would incur

a whole 99 extra. Good to know.

What about just winners

raised by zero, right? It's like I see your 99 and I raise you nothing. Yeah.

How many more people would you get on the platform if you raised the

Not many because it's high ticket,

right? No, but like No, this is a real question. This

already and they're already on the platform.

Yeah.

If the issue risk, then couldn't you just have a cash reserve thing?

Okay, but it's a pain.

Uh 50 bucks.

It's already 198 cuz we like we have the 10K and we're just passing it through two rooms. So I guess the added benefit is we get an extra domain that we get to have.

But and it's just a little bit more work.

Sometimes the card gets declined because it's a duplicate transaction.

Yeah.

Yeah. But most of the time actually it's run really smoothly. The only thing I would if if I had to pick one, I would want the monthly to go up because that seems to be more of a pain for us to split the monthly into two.

But yeah.

Yeah. What's really interesting about this high ticket is that if you do the math, right, like most people are processing high ticket and they're not processing at the rates that school's processing at. And so it's like you sell a $10,000 thing and you're paying 3.9. It's like it's a $100 per time, right? And so all of a sudden it's like, oh, if I was if I sell five people this month or 10 people this month, it's like you're already paying an extra thousand in processing today. But people don't see that, right? Just food for thought. If you figure out how much we need to pay to have upgraded subscription so we can charge more, what will be the ceiling

Well, credit cards kind of

Yeah, it's going to be the credit carding.

Like there's not many cards out there that'll pay more than 10k.

Okay.

Yeah. Like if you actually try to run a $50,000 charge on a card, it's got to be somebody who knows who's like who has a history of spending that kind of money. So you're dealing with somebody who already has a a larger business that does that.

Yeah. for in our case we want to charge 24,000 for the world smart

right

but does anyone ever do that on one payment

well that's also that's a good question I would love to know more about how you have done that with your master in the past

with my what

your master quantum

oh I see um

my payment was split up three for the mastermind

three pay yeah but like at the same time 12.

Yeah. So, it's all up front, right? Basically, we're adding three different payments.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Up up up up front. I think Sam started a monthly and then changed to annual only.

Yeah.

Also built up a lot of demand.

Yeah. And it's normal in the beginning. It's like first you build up demand, then you can charge it as a monthly rate, but you build it, you know, but you sell it annually. It's like 36,000 years, $3,000 a month, and then you get a little bit more demand and you want to increase the quality and then you're like, you know what, it's going to be 36k up front or it's half up front and then X a month, whatever.

Right.

So, for now, just have three communities.

I I will no comment.

Daniel does.

We We have four, but we're like running Yeah, we have like

this one that one try to do it on the score platform. Okay. The only thing it hurts is your alltime leaderboard stats, but other than that, there's like

why the backpack's on there. That's that's not even our I mean,

a lot of people that pay the 10k, at least for us, they need to split it up two cards. So, it will actually fine. It's

Yeah. So, they would have to do it anyway.

So,

monthly higher would be so nice.

Monthly higher where I think we encounter more challenges. Um, but that's just because we're selling it. But overall splitting it has

I'm curious. Do you know if the fraud has gone up since introducing annual?

No, but we have gotten way better at it. So like I don't know if you I don't know if we the fact that fraud hasn't gone up. I don't think well, we haven't seen any increase in fraud.

Yeah. question. Okay, so I know we are trying to figure out a ZA we have 150 and our Android is 1200 and we also have our master line

and I'm wondering if we would do the arrow for example towards 3k or 5k is that considered a second uh third offer then because you always say 1 to million is one offer one channel one other one one uh 1 to 10 million is two offers first one after watch.

So you have the backend offer like that's the the 24K thing. I think that you having a different billing structure for the 150 a month is not a different offer. It's the same deliverable. It's just it's just payment terms. So that I don't see as like feeling oh wait am I doing three things? I wouldn't see it that way.

Exactly. And if you would add that offer for 5k a year for chapel and then we add that account manage whatever it is. I'd rather you just raise the price on the main thing and then keep the back end

rather than like create another like in betweenish product. It's the same buyer.

Okay.

Because typically like 1K, 2K, 3K like it's the same. It's kind of the same thing. It's crazy. I mean, it's wildly different from revenue perspectives, but from a buying perspective it's if you if it makes sense basically the the number of the conversion rate doesn't drop proportionally to the price increase. You don't sell half as many at 2K as you do at 1K.

You sell more than half.

Awesome. Perfect. Thank you.

It's like a general question for anyone doing high ticket. Is are you guys seeing I guess economywise or whatever people going for the lower ticket more than higher ticket um like in general or are you having struggles selling higher tickets versus they all said no. They said easier.

Easier selling higher ticket.

Yeah, either.

Do you guys use ads though?

Yes.

How you doing?

I've heard mixed things. Um I tend to not pay much attention to like people are like, "Oh, high ticket's dead." I'm like, like I think just markets change. People who are new typically have a nice newness to them when they enter a marketplace with something exciting. And if they don't evolve, they die. And then they're like,

"Some people are always crushing and some people are always failing

and that is the reason why they're crushing

cuz they figured something out and the rules changed somehow." Yeah.

I think it's a belief thing. We sell no matter what. Yeah.

I mean, we did 31 million in sales when 100% of our customers weren't legally allowed to do business. So, like, hey, tell me about your gym. I can't do business. Hey, you want to buy a gym watch? So, like I that was that that was a big like uh that was my endall. Like I stopped caring at all about anyone else at that point. It's like, "Oh, credit rates up 2%." Like I is everyone allowed to do business? Okay, great. You know, like who cares? Okay, so that was uh so I do I still think like I said, I think a lot of people are under underutilizing annual. think it might be worth trying what annual only looks like just map out what um how what conversion would need to look like.

We also think um we have a webinar tomorrow we do every week. Um you think it's a good idea to try selling annual first and then at the end like opening the um monthly but higher price.

Yeah, you can I mean, it's a payment plan functionally. Yeah, you want to anchor high present the highest price first. Okay. Uh oh. Free trials and free groups. This was interesting. Who had this one? So you Okay. So um and I feel like this also may feed into your uh 7-day trial stuff. So these feel like somewhat related. Um, but yeah, let's talk about it. So what was your

Yeah, we have the free group and we've been using mainly the free group to do calls. Um, but now we want to go into free trials.

Okay.

Um, and I guess I'm just curious what you think about that. like should we have a free group and do free trials as well or do we mainly promote the free trials and yeah, kind of what you predict? Yeah,

totally. So, um based on do you have do we have any other math besides the the because I think you sent me trial conversion numbers.

Yeah, between like 25 and 45%.

Yeah. And so I I'll this is me shooting from the hip. So this is broad numbers but that's okay because everyone's going to be a little bit different anyways. But basically like if you look at like an industry average change, it's like if you go from a price point to a free trial, you're going to have usually like a 2 or 3x increase in conversion rates on the page. Now everyone's like, "Oh, then we should do free trials." The downside is that you then lose two to 3x. You bit, you know, you convert oneird of those people or a quarter of those people. You know, 25% it's a quarter. If it's 25% it's, you know, a little bit more little less than one out of two on the back end. So it's like you double or triple the front end, but then you convert one/ird as many. And so it's like, well, then what's the point of having a free trial? In my opinion, the piece where free trials matter is that you might get five times the clicks on the thing that's driving towards whatever the basically your call to action will convert to higher percentage. So your earnings per click will remain the same. So if I get 100 clicks to the page and I have paid group, then I will have, you know, 2% of people who buy my thing and then that's it. They bought, it's done. But if I have 6% who take a free trial and then one out of three stays, then I have 2% who stay. So I net out the same exact thing. Now my cash is a little delayed. So there's a cost there. But if I say, "Hey, come join my group for $99," it would probably not get nearly as many clicks as, "Hey, why don't you try my group for free for 14 days?" And so that's the reason schools has a free trial is because we get more clicks from the ads than if we were just say straight 99.

The other thing you have to factor in is churn. I think the churn's down for people that came in on a trial.

Well, imagine it when you buy that is your trial.

Yeah.

First,

your first month is

your trial cancel is your churn,

right? But with the churn, you never I mean, with the trial, you never pay. Um, I don't think that should be the reason to do a trial, by the way. There's people with 5% churn that don't do free trials. Um, but you've got to factor in the amount of the attractiveness of the offer that will increase the volume of traffic to the page. But from just looking at the two mechanisms though, I've seen about page traffic tends to go up by like three times. I mean, the about page conversion rate goes up three times, but the trial conversion rate seems to be on average around 33ish%. So, it's the same, but if you could get more people there and if they stayed longer, it might be worth it. But the other variable is does it ruin your community having so many people just flow through like that?

Heroot had the exact numbers that you I think did on the Q&A calls like out of 104 people convert they had to it was exactly the same. Did a video on it. I did free trial tried it. The first guy that joined was a competitor and I was like I turned it off straight away. I was like that's in I'm in and out cuz it was

Yeah.

I was like I'll try it. That's scientific method right there.

Yeah.

Yeah. It literally it literally said like reduce churn on school. I was like far out. He's like why'd you kick me out of the group? I'm like you're literally running the same offer.

Run a free trial. Would you still run traffic to free community first and then the free trial? Do you think that would convert more?

Again, these are these are Excel sheet problems. What percentage of free group go to the paid? What percentage of people start a free trial and like these are just straight dollars and cents. So you can just look at the difference.

What would you do to to convert more people from a free trial?

From free trial.

Yeah.

Well, uh activation sequences um are are helpful. Uh, so that would be pro when I say activation, it's really just any communication you have with the person uh on a consistent basis. So that can be via DM, it can be via um, it's basically via reachout. Um, and the way that I have because we we'll probably roll out one for school soon as well. Um, the way that I designed the one that that that I think we'll be rolling out, uh, is looking at all the FAQs for reasons people will cancel and basically making that the sequence. So, it's like, hey, if you're worried about this, we've got a whole article and piece on that. This is obviously one to many at scale. I don't know if you have smaller numbers, you can do it more individualized, but um I just thought about it like what is every reason someone cancels or chooses not to continue? Let's just make that every one of the pieces communication that we have prior to them having their conversion point.

Either having a call like around like day four, five, six.

I would just find someone that's got a high conversion rate at a decent scale and see what they're doing. I think AI Jack's dialed in a lot of his metrics. His ch

is he trial now? Is he doing free trial?

He tried trial. He tried it. Um, the trial.

No. No. He he he tried it for a while and then he turned it off and he's waiting for the metrics to come through. But so far the trial conversion rate keeps going up because those declines that sit there. There's they'll eventually like 20% of them will probably convert. So, the conversion rate keeps going up and he should last time he looked at it was 33% but I think it's going up more and then he's going to look at whether it made sense or not overall and then decide what he should do. But for a good 2 3 weeks he was running the trial. Evelyn did the same thing. Um, I know some groups swear by it because if they were having problems converting people in the first place, it's a it's perfect for them and they will always use it. But for some people like AI, Jack, and Evelyn, they didn't have a problem getting people in. So now they're just trying to figure out is it a does it make things better or worse? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But I think they're the two to look at. I think like cuz they're at a decent volume and they've they've tried both and they run ads. So they're like, "Oh, I don't know if AI Jack runs ads." But I would I would talk to them.

So my conversion rate is terrible. Um, what is it? 4% or something. Point4.

Yeah. Okay.

So is that screaming try?

Wait, what's the price?

$99. $120 now. $120. Um,

do you drive from organic?

Both organic and and ads. I just started doing mostly organic. I just started doing ads 30 days ago.

I'm only going to throw this out there because you're in like the men's men's grooming is so I think it'll really depend on what your um what your content is. So like if your content has a lot of like barbery, you know, fades and you know, you know that stuff better than I do, but like cool haircuts, things like that. I'll bet you'll have a lot of people who aren't barbers who just like that stuff and then when they click over they're like, "Oh, this is not what I thought it was going to be." So, it might be like a the traffic that's getting sent there. It might be mismatched. It might be fine if you look if you're able to dial in like what's the conversion of people who are barbers who convert. You might have really good conversion.

You're at 129 max. What's yours?

150. We just increased it to 150. What was the conversion?

Conversion.

It's pretty low. I think it's 1.5 maybe.

Yeah. something like that.

Okay.

It's low.

Um, I would What's the harm in trying it?

I think it's just like a reducing the friction thing. That's why we have the free group. So just trying to give some value for free first.

Yeah,

you don't have much to lose when it's like that. Yeah,

I just started a free group. So maybe I can try leading with free group and then trying the free.

This one's so much easier. I would try it first

cuz you just changed the button. Yeah, you

Yeah,

if it it's you could just click once.

Yeah.

So much more chill.

There's an unspeakable amount of clicks on the other one.

Yeah.

At least three times.

Endless. We have about 3% from for for same price point. And what increased a lot is just the webinars because if we drive organic traffic directly to this is like 0.89 but just after the webinars it's all time stabiliz around 3%.

Okay. So this will be the interesting question though. So when you do a webinar what's walk me through the process of someone going to the webinar

uh Tik Tok. So you so Tik Tok ads

uh no organic Tik Tok or Tik Tok live

webinar registration page just with field which actually we AB test having a full page with all information or just the form just the form perform better and directly after email webinar and at the end call to action. So you so the the way to I mean the way to look at it would be all the clicks that you're driving to the webinar you have a drop off to conversion there then you have a drop off at show up rate then you have a drop off to offer seeing and then you're equating this traffic to the conversion of the page when it should be apples to apples if I spent this if I put all these clicks straight to and I was getting 08 are are you losing like you would have to keep 30% of all traffic from click to opt in, to show, to offer, you'd have to only lose 70% of traffic with like four different points there. Uh, and I would find that unlikely. I would I would just like I would just do the math. I'm just say like look at the math first and then you might find out you might have a hidden nugget that's just sitting there.

Sorry. Uh, go ahead. and also say what you could do because we do the same to a webinar, but what we what we did was we opt into a free Facebook group to nurture them and then we allow the people in our community to go ahead and refer those members in that free Facebook group and oftent times by the time you won the webinar they're actually already in school. So, I I tested that like I had like a 7-day window where I just did webinars every single day and my yeah, my my um, my conversion rate was like 3% 4%. It jumped up immensely, but the volume obviously was super way lower. Um, my concern with turning on the free trial as an alternative to that is that am I going to bring in a whole bunch of people?

How many people are signed up a day right now?

How many what

how many signups a day you getting now?

Now, three or five. three to five around.

Oh, then I wouldn't worry about it.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think we get it we get at least three to five signups a day.

When we were doing the when we were doing the webinars, we did like 650 in the in 30 days and it got overwhelming with so many new people.

Well, you did the webinar. So, I'm like because that's also a shot all at once. It's like if you had a free trial and maybe let's say it jumps to 15 a day, I think that's going to be way more manageable than 600 all at once. You know what I mean? So, I think I still

I think it's probably like one-click test. It's probably worth testing because you can literally turn it off after you do the scientific method of one person joining, too, right? Okay, cool. Um, that was free trial versus free groups. Does that help, Max, on this one?

>> Yes.

>> Thank you.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, all right. Uh,

>> Is that Daniel just waving around making noise?

Uh, let's see. I think it's very important. Um, let's do, let's do sales stuff. You guys want to do sales stuff? Okay. So, okay. What are the sales issues? Who, who's with, was, who's with sales things over here?

>> Yeah.

>> Uh, so it's just basically like follow up with people. Uh, it's pretty easy to sell on a sales call, but then afterwards is like, does that person really want it, or am I influencing them through the follow-up to then make somebody that wasn't naturally going to do it or be about that life to do something?

>> What problem are you solving?

>> Sorry.

>> What problem are you trying to solve?

Uh, is it worth it to sell people? Because obviously

>> Is it worth it to sell people?

>> Yeah. So, so I'll take Kevin's objective for the day, which was if if the goal is to make more money,

>> then selling people will make you more money than not selling people.

>> Thank you.

>> But but the thing is like

>> I'll be here all day.

>> I do ads for people, but then they have to call their leads, but then they don't call their leads.

I think he's asking, is there money after the webinar? Is it worth following up with people? Are they going to buy? That's what he's really asking. So, those are the ones with the more objections. Those are the ones that you might need to, they're not maybe able to take, uh, you know, advantage of your current offer. All right? I don't know what your price point is, but we, we, you know, there's, there's a completely different caliber of client there. And so, yes, they do need a follow-up.

>> Um and

>> Daniel's mom, I'm a fan. Yes. Yes, when

>> I'm a fan of yours.

>> Oh, I am.

Um, so yes. Okay. So, if that's the question, uh, yes, follow up with your leads. So, I've, I've actually updated my whole, my whole thesis around, um, conversion a lot. So, it's probably been a big change for me. Like, if you look at my stuff, you know, 13 years ago compared to 5 years ago towards this year, like this year, I've, I've probably updated it, um, in kind of two material ways.

So, number one is I used to think about things as like logical and emotional buyers. Have you guys heard of that? Like people talking about this? I don't think that's true. I think that there is a certain amount of information that is required for someone to make a decision, and some people require less information, and some people require more. And the reason that brands convert a way bigger percentage of the audience is because the vast majority of people don't make decisions that way. Now, we poo-poo them because everyone here is disproportionately, we're entrepreneurs. We take more risk, and so we're willing to basically make decisions with less information. But the vast majority of the world doesn't work that way. And so most people, and the reason the info space continues to resell these same people over and over and over again is because they can't, they don't know how to sell higher information threshold buyers. And so in thinking about that, I have shifted a lot. Obviously, the reason that we put all the content out and things like that is that there are, there are many very rational people that rationally are like, "I, I just watched a 45-minute video from you. Why am I going to immediately spend $10,000? This is ridiculous." People do, but more people don't. And there's way more money in the don't. And my belief, this is my belief, um, I think that they're better buyers.

>> Really? So, it's not a turn issue because that's the backend problem?

>> No, it's just a history of decision-making. They've been punished in the past for making fast decisions, and so then they, they use that algorithm for making decisions in the future. I think that your experience with the first few things that you consumed information-wise probably has such a massive difference. Uh, like it's, this is actually kind of freaky the amount of guys that I know who like ended up, you know, staying in real estate forever or like this, like their first deal, the first thing, like they actually got a little lucky. The first guy they consumed information from was actually a pretty good guy, and then they're like, "Oh, learning is good. Paying money for stuff is good, like, and for education." But if you don't do that, and this is why I put all the stuff that I do out there is like, hopefully, I can get people better first experiences so they're like, "Oh, maybe learning stuff on how to make money is a good idea."

Um, and so, yes, I think that following up with leads makes sense. The question is going to be, is it worth the return, which is a math question, not an emotional question. How much does it cost me to follow up? What's my return on that? Is it worth doing that versus any other use of the same resources?

>> So essentially, they could have had bad experiences.

>> So much better. Go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead.

>> That's just what I was saying. They may have had bad experiences in the past, so they aren't so quick to automatically jump into it. So then you want to continue to talk to them if you find value within the success that you believe they could have.

>> Yeah. And I think a lot more of the follow-up is actually the, the pre, is the, is the, whatever the opposite of follow-up is, the, the nurture, the warm-up.

>> Yeah. Like YouTube.

>> Yeah. It's way. So I think people spend too much, like, not too much time, but it's 80/20 the other way. People want to keep optimizing on the back, but I think there's way more value in optimizing on the front.

>> Foreplay.

>> Yeah. Fore, foreplay. There you go.

>> Your, uh, your like arc of like, uh

>> For the perma-pump.

>> Let's go.

>> You got to do foreplay for the perma-pump.

>> Don't fall off with much.

>> Your arc of, uh, like how to get client testimonials from one of the other ones. We've implemented that into like sales processes for like service-based business owners, and it's literally insane. Like, all, all of their follow-ups for like $80,000 patios that completely just goes to them. They'll just drop like two clients like of that arc, same situation. And like I have a guy in Florida who the three people he sent it to that were completely cold leads, like 200 grand just like that, like over time.

>> You think you should have done that though?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So now we're putting it like into the front end. So like two hours before they go sign the check. So I think that's something that could probably help, like me. I should probably be doing that and I'm not doing that.

>> Yeah. Take from the back, put it in the front because it took, it required the same information for them to make the decision. We just missed it. And so if you think of it like, so I, I actually really hate the difference between marketing and sales. Like we segment them because the actual activities are different, but the act, like the function of those activities remains the same, which is you need to give someone enough information to make a decision. And so the marketing, when done, I would say, like, quickly and on very short time horizons, it's like, it's very direct response, get someone to take action. And then basically, you get on the call and you're like, "I have to plug all these information holes to get you to to decide." But if you can cover more of that before the call, that's when you get your little tip-ins. And that's why organic traffic converts higher. But it's not that those people are different. They've just already received more information prior to the call. And it's just way easier to give way more people information here than it is here.

>> Wasn't that great on whole pieces of just put a ton of marketing over this point?

>> Yeah, I mean, that's 10x, bro. But no, but that's, yeah, I mean, he's, uh, um, Grant has this thing that I, I heard him say that I really liked, which was, um, I like the spirit behind it, not the actuality of it, which was he said CRO is a scam. He said conversion rate optimization is a scam. Obviously, it's not a scam. Please split test your [ __ ]. But the point of what he was saying is that like, you can only get to 100%, but you can 100x your traffic. And so it's like, it's an incremental return. Whereas the other, like, if you look at, okay, how, like, if you're not going to zero your way to 100xing the business, but you can increase traffic by 100% if you made the right call. So, it's like, well, then put more of the effort into the big order of magnitude things. That was, I think, the spirit behind what he was saying. Um, but then some people hear that, they're like, "Oh, we should never split test." It's like, "No, you should split test, like, for sure."

Um, but yeah, that was, oh, that was, so that was just sales follow-up. Okay. So, let's talk about sales training. Good with that?

>> Yeah, sure. Kevin,

>> I have a question, Alex. Um, the other day I do a podcast and I do the, I give the information about my course, about my courses, and I make, I do a, a webinar, and I, I for those people, I sold like $45,000 in one call. But then I get exciting. I, and I do ads in, in, in,

>> You do what?

>> Ads.

>> Ads. Okay, got it.

>> And in the first webinar, there's been like 125 people. In the other one, there is like, uh, 350 people.

>> Okay.

>> But I just sold 10.

>> Uh-huh.

>> So, what do you think happened there? Why? So the first one you did was, you did your webinar on someone else's podcast?

>> No, I went to a podcast and I talked about my life, about everything. You know what I'm saying? And then I, I

>> Sent them to

>> The to the phone.

>> Okay.

>> And I do great with them, but in the other side, I have more people, but I do less sell. So what, what do you think is

>> This is good. So think about what we, what I just went over in terms of the information to make a decision. So these people spent an hour, however long you had on the podcast with you. They learned all about you and all these other things, and then you sent them to a webinar, and then you went to webinar and then sold them. The other people skipped all of this and then went straight to the webinar to sell. And so the question is, or rather, that would give me the conclusion that there are some variables that you cover in that podcast that are relevant to people who want to buy. It's if you think about conversion, like I just think of it as like a cheese grater. Like there's these little holes that I just have to fill to get the the highest percentage of people to buy. Like my hypothetical extreme is that there is a sales process that could get 100% of people to buy. The question is whether it's worth it, like, like whether, whether the cost investment of getting every single person to buy is worth it. Probably not for a business. So, can you convert 100% of the audience? Yes. Is it worth it? No.

>> But do you actually want to convert everyone, or are you looking for people right now? If we had 100% of qualified people who got on the call. So, if we segmented the traffic for that, then within that qualified pool,

>> Daniel can do that. That would be great.

>> Yeah, Daniel, what are you doing?

>> That was a questionable.

>> And so, uh, you get what I'm, what I'm, what I'm pointing at here is that you said things on the podcast that actually influence people's buying decision, which you actually now have data to support that. Similar situation. Now, the other part of that is that if you were on someone else's podcast, right? Well, then their history reinforcement with that person, if someone comes on my podcast, my audience is going to trust them because I don't do it often. And so you, like, that alone might have been the reason.

>> Yeah, I swear that's it.

>> Right? So, like

>> And that is also information that people use to make a decision. If Alex says this is a good idea, I don't need to listen to anything else. I'll buy. That's enough information for some people because of the history of all the information I've given them. So you piggyback on their reputation. So if you wanted to replicate it, it would be like, how do you go on a hundred more podcasts and run the same play?

>> And retarget the people who visit that page with ads

>> Cuz they came from that podcast.

>> That's nice.

>> I think it was my fa That was my favorite response of the day.

>> That's nice. I would just book up podcasts and retarget the people who hit the about the, whatever page it was that they registered for the webinar on. Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's what very, and this is the second time that the same happened with me, you know.

>> Yeah. So it works on the podcast, you run ads. It doesn't work

>> Immediately. Then just do more, do more of the thing that worked. See how you can get on five podcasts a week. Such an app. Like people spent so much time and money to gather that attention, and they will present you as an expert for free, and you get to do a call to action at the end. And if you want to be clever about it, which I would recommend, which is like not insulting the people whose audiences you're hopping on there, um, I would be tra like, I either you have to make a very soft webinar, right? Or, uh, you include them in on it. So, it's bas, you basically do a, you do a rev share with them. So, it's like, "Hey, I get your podcast. By the way, if anyone buys any of my stuff from your podcast, I'm happy to give you half or whatever you want." Because all of a sudden, guess what happens if you do that podcast and that guy, if you sent that guy a check for $10,000 after the podcast, I'll bet you he would have you back. And so, so then you create a podcast circuit that you go on two times a year, three times a year. This is our real estate expert, Kevin, who's going to talk about, you know, real estate stuff. And then you have like 20 of those that you get on three times a year. You do 60 podcasts. Each podcast does $40,000. It's like, great, there's $2.4 million. And it's very high margin. That's what Mr. Beast did. As soon as he saw what happened with like Andrew Tate's rise with all the clips, he was like, "I, I'll just book as many podcasts as possible." And then he went on a complete circuit. And then he was like, "On the podcast, I'm doing this because people will go and clip all of my stuff and share me 10 times further than what I could even pay for because people want to make money from it or build a brand or build an audience." So, if you get people to do that, you can do it in the, um, you can actually just hire people to clip for you, or if you have a big enough audience, people will just do it for you. Anyway, that's how a lot of people are going to make a lot of money with affiliates when it comes to school. We did what you said, like we made our, uh, one of our podcast guys an affiliate link, and he made so much money from it that we sent him a text. He's like, we're like, "We're sending you four grand." He's like, "What? That's amazing. That's awesome." So now he wants us to do demo and exactly what he said.

>> Yeah. You become a regular, you like you become a regular, uh, guest. Just don't overdo it. Just do like, you know, do a couple times a year. I wouldn't, I wouldn't like beat the hell out of it. What are your thoughts? Because it's converting so well about funding traffic to his basically like funding traffic to his. It was a YouTube podcast.

>> Yeah.

>> So, it's like, "Hey, man, we'll give you, you know, marketing dollars."

>> I think it's a great idea. I mean, I would run it and then I would see what happens. I knew there was a, there was a, um, there was a gym mastermind years and years and years ago, like right at the beginning of podcasts, and they sold exclusively through their podcast, and they ran ads to the podcast where they did the sales. So, they just basically did a podcast webinar funnel because, you know, it's always like, "How can I make this new and different?" uh, rather than a webinar, but you still have captivated attention. And I do think that the, the stick rate on an audio podcast is probably significantly higher than a video webinar because, like, if you just look at podcast consumption overall, I've actually just been looking at my podcast metrics recently, so, but like, it's, it's an absurd amount. It's like 80, 90% of people who start the podcast make it all the way through. If you were to have those types of metrics on a YouTube video, it'd be the most popular YouTube video of all time.

>> Kind of like those old school teleseminars, right?

>> It's exactly like teleseminars. Yeah. Just literally the tech changed. That it's still you hearing someone talk. People haven't changed. Yeah. Just the tech.

Okay. So, that was none of the things we just talked about. Okay. So, sales team. Uh, okay. So, who, who had the sales team on?

>> Shoot.

>> Yeah. We um we make a lot of sales in Salesforce, like 56%. And obviously we want to do

>> Sales from sales calls. I like it.

>> Yeah. Right. So we want to do more of that. Um, there's only really like me and D not going to do them anymore. So we want to sell the account.

>> Um, so just honestly, just tips on how to find people because all of us came from within the community.

>> Yeah.

>> Do we keep doing that because that works, or do we like look elsewhere? And then also how to like train those people and kind of just some tips basically on how to train these skills.

>> I think you can start with the community since that is already proven effective. They already believe in everything. I think that's probably a good first step, and then I would exhaust that. You have a pretty big community though, so you probably can find a good amount of people, and they're all like business interested. It's harder if you're like selling DIY moms, uh, to find. So, but then again, there's plenty of them too who will just become savages. So, um, that's probably where I would start. Not say that's the eventuality, but it's a good place to start.

Um, in terms of, uh, onboarding, I, we typically do two weeks of game tape, which is basically like twice a day. They, we, they meet with the sales manager in the beginning, meet with them at the end. They review sales calls, and we role-play with them, and that's, that's the majority of the onboarding. Then they get a half calendar because we don't want to waste leads. They get a half calendar. Um, and they take those calls. As long as they meet KPIs, then we give them the full calendar. Um, and anybody who goes below KPI drops the half calendar, basically goes back into re-onboarding, essentially. And if they can't cut it again, then they're out. And so the same thing with the guys who are at half. If they can't make it in two weeks of that, then that basically has given them 30 days, and like, we usually just call it.

For, for a pay structure, we're probably thinking obviously the main thing we're going to do going forward is strictly annual. We're going to have the monthly as a down-sell. Obviously, we're thinking like 15% for a rep. Would you give them the same for the monthly because then it's just like, "Hey, if you want to make 20 more money, then sell the annual," or would you give them a little more for the monthly, or

>> I, I, I work all of my OT, so on target earnings for any commission-based role based on what I think the type, basically what I think the skill level required to do this job well would need to make in order to take the job. And so, like, because I don't like the percentages because let's say, let's say someone's selling, uh, $200,000 patios, right? It's like, am I not going to give him $30,000 on every patio? Like, of course not. So, there's this issue in the info world where we assume that like, "Oh, high ticket is only due for 15% or 20%," but it doesn't take into account lead flow, lead quality, brand, product. It doesn't take anything into account. So, it's just how hard is this particular sale, and then what level of person is needed, and what does that person need to make, and how many opportunities they're going to make, and what should I, you know, what would I, what would their conversion rate expectation be? So, if they're, if they're taking 10 calls a day, and I expect them to close five in order to be like a good rep or a proficient rep, and that'll depend on y'all's businesses, but let's say it's five out of 10. Well, if for me to get somebody to quit whatever they're doing and do this full-time and be remote and make whatever, let's say it's $100,000 a year, and I'm like, "Okay, they'll work five days a week, they'll do five sales a day, that's 25 sales a week, times 50, two weeks, or maybe they take two weeks off, so times, you know, times 50." And so that's what, $1250. That's 1,250 sales a year. Okay. So, if they make $100 a sale, then they're at one, you know, $125,000 a year. Okay. So, uh, $100 a sale. What does that work out into? I don't even need to do percentages because they'll just say, "Okay, well, you get a hundred bucks on this sale, and you get 20 on this sale." You can make it a percentage if you want to, but like, you just do it, expect, like, what do you expect them to do if they do a good job? And what is that? Yeah, you, I back into it. I don't, I don't do it front-forward.

>> We're talking about sales growing. Maybe you can just help me think through this. So, like, uh, the way that we've set it up is I do sell by chat, and I'm also

>> The dude, uh, and I don't want to, I want to grow and ask

>> You do want to grow.

>> Do you want to? Some people don't. That was, that was a genuine question.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, so you do want to grow.

>> Yeah.

>> And version one of giving somebody access to your chat and messaging that way. You don't want to do

>> Um, like where they just do what I was doing and and sell in the chat.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, yeah, I ran into, I guess a pro, I try, I've just done them for the last 30 days and have somebody in the role, and then, yeah, it's not

>> They weren't as good as you.

>> But they weren't using your account, were they?

>> They were in their own account. Um, and yeah, but just wondering if that actually is the model that makes sense for scaling or like growing a team, or, you know, like the model that we have right now is a sell by chat, free community.

>> So you go free DM paid.

>> Yeah. What?

>> Okay. And are you DMing via school chat?

>> Uh, cool, free thing is, I, all of our sales from the, this last campaign were just from free school community. No ads, like, well, the regular ads to the free also, but no calls and no outside leads, just free sport and indeed backpack, just just got there, just got there.

Um, I mean, I'm a big fan of not breaking what's working and seeing if like the lowest, the lowest risk move you can make is do more of what's working. And so it's like, what is the, what is the bottleneck of doing more of what's working? And is the risk of fixing that bottleneck greater than the risk of the unknown of changing the process and changing the person?

>> Yeah.

>> Because you'd be doing multiple changes there. You'd be changing the sales process, and you'd have another variable of basically a phone script, which is a different selling method, and a different person if somebody else was taking those calls.

>> I would say like me, lowest risk. Um, I have seen guys who have scaled chat like crazy. And so I don't think it's like you can't scale it. Um, like a friend of mine has like 60 chat reps that just work as Instagram like DMs. So like you can scale it, but I'd say that sales teams on the phone are far more common than DM setters. Also, how many creators wanted you? I mean, there's maybe there's reasons for that, but, um, yeah, I bet I'd make that bet first.

Um, in terms of training, the big thing that, um, I, I, I genuinely feel this because we're, we're very good at building sales teams. Um, I think the largest sales team we have right now is almost a hundred guys just on one company. So, like, pretty decent at it. Um, the, the big thing is understanding how training works, which is you need very low latency. So, very fast feedback loops for when you're correcting someone's talking. So, they'll have the script, and the first and most important objective of sales training is script adherence. Because if you can get everyone to say the script, then you know if the script works. If no one says the script, there's no point in having a script. Now, that goes all the way to basically there's nothing that happens on the sales call that they shouldn't already know how to answer. The order of the script will change post basically ask, because at that point, they'll have to jump to the portions that they should have memorized in terms of, you know, "I need to think about, I need to talk to my spouse, I don't have the money right now," whatever it is, um, that part. But everything up to there should be almost the same, uh, by person. And when we train people, like we'll interrupt somebody the first time they do a script like 40 times, and we'll tell them that like, "Hey, before you get going, we're going to interrupt you like crazy. That means it's, it's going well." And so they'll start the first line, it'll be like, "Stop. Say it like this. Try it again." All right, say it again. All right, you nailed it. Do it another time. Great. Do it another time. Pause the reinforcement again. Okay, great. Now, keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Stop. Try like this. Tweak your your tone here. Like, and so when we make a script, we also include it with a tone guide, which is basically how you bold, underline, italicize, caps the fonts so that they can know what each font means. And so it's like, you hear one of your reps say something and you're like, "He said that wrong." Like that, they like, "You hit it right." That's because they weren't pausing at the right parts, or they sped up, or they made a question out of a statement because they get kind of like, I don't know, like they raised their voice, and then they sound soft on the call. And so we just drill that. Not only they saying the words, they're saying them the right way.

>> Are you developing that or is the silk corrector guy or first step? Oh wow. I mean, when it's you, yeah, you're doing it in the beginning. And so, you codify, like the best way to do this is you just look at the sales calls that you did that were really good, where you're like, "Man, I was on fire." Which number one recommendation I can give to anybody who's selling still is record all your calls. And whenever you get on a hot streak, because everyone gets on one, right? You're like, "Dude, I'm on [ __ ] fire today." Those are the best calls because the tiny changes in your intonations, where you pause, where you ask for money, that's like, that's the best script. And so then take that as V1, and then that way you can always compare it back. And if you ever get in a cold streak, go back to listening to your all-time greatest hits. And I have all of our guys do this. It's like they should always have a library of like when they're on fire, what they should, like what they sound like. And that, that gets a lot of people out of slumps when they sometimes get into them.

>> Um, I found in our team like Kio is completely different. He's never been trained on so be close to the more laid-back operative, you know, he's not trying to convin

>> Um, yeah, Kio, everyone here now knows him as Kron. Yes.

>> So, Kio. Okay, sorry. So, Kio. Okay, got it. Okay.

>> Um, but the guys that we've recruited, they're more in the, this, the where I'm from, like they actually know about all types of stuff. So,

>> If we were just to hire out for, develop our scripts, or help us to help our team grow as daily.

>> Just look at the, you already have sales guys, right? I would look at those guys, Kio, and everyone here. If you're the, like, if you're the, the inspirational dude, I actually don't. So, hear me out on this. I don't think he sells better than them. They already have more trust with him, and so he can be lazier with it. And so, it's like, if I have a warm audience and I say, "Hey, go buy this." Is that really effective persuasion? No, I just have already a huge history of reinforcement, the person, and so they're very likely to comply with the next request. If you're starting without that position, then you have to do the things that increase the likelihood that someone complies, which he's probably not doing because he hasn't had to. And so it is way faster if you already know the person's going to buy. So, you buying or not? Are you buying or what? And they're like, "Sure. First question on the call. Cool. Let's, let's end the call now. Here's the link. See you later." Right? Like that's not a sales script. That, that will work only if you're Kio. And so we need to make it work for anyone, especially people who aren't Kio.

>> So, this tonality thing and knowing how to open a thing, how to dig deep. So, is this like straight-line stuff? Are you are you modeling something specific?

>> So, I made the closer framework as the easiest framework that I've taught, which is what fundamentally you're just, you're establishing a gap, right? You're just like, "Where are you now? Clarify, like, clarify where they're, see, okay, why did you hop on the call? Why did you attend the webinar? Why did you click on my thing? Why did you write, respond, comment, whatever. Okay, cool. Label. So, what I'm hearing is you're here, and you want to go here. Got it. Oh, what's been the thing that's been getting in the way? Obstacle, right? So, you, oh, you overview their past pain. So, what have you tried so far? Why didn't that work? What else have you tried? Why didn't that work? And when we're doing that pain cycle, it's elevating their, it's extending the gap between where they are and where they want to go. And so the equal opposite of of motivation is deprivation. So, if I want somebody to be more motivated, I need to make them feel deprived. So, it's like, if I show lots of burgers and steaks or, you know, behind me, and you guys haven't eaten, me showing it will increase your deprivation around that thing. And so then you get hungrier, right? If you haven't slept in a while, you're very motivated to sleep. But since money and goals aren't physiological, we have to do that mentally or psychologically by describing the pain that they're going through right now by not having the goal, as much as what life might be like once they do, which is then S, which is sell the vacation, which is, "What would it look like when you do have this?" I think you might be a good fit for it. Can I tell you about it? Three-pillar pitch. There's thing one, thing, two, thing three that you need to succeed. Each one of those has a metaphor that they can understand immediately without getting into any of the specifics. Does that make sense? Great. Let's get you rocking and rolling. No. E. Explain away the concerns. What's your main concern? What are you most afraid of having happen? What would make this a yes? Huh? What would make this a no? Right. And you start walking through basically closing.

>> Based on what you just basically know about us so far, would you say we should get into standardizing that?

>> No, you can go outbound because you have so much volume and you're doing four, four-minute calls. It can be a very, like, your call is already probably very transactional. Like, you know, if it's four-minute average calls, like you're asking like four questions. I mean, I, I felt like you probably aren't asking very much. And so that should be extremely easy to standardize.

>> Standardize that, make sense?

>> Yeah. Sweet. But do we have the same number children? We'll get

>> There, there's like the level of scripts which use for stills. Is it, do you have a similar level of sophistication of that for like delivery?

>> 100%.

>> Okay. Okay. Cool. If it's client-facing issues.

>> Okay. Okay. Thank you.

>> You're having a repeated, like you're having the same conversation. What makes one rep good? What makes one rep bad? They have a framework if they follow. They ask the same questions. They answer the same way.

>> Okay.

>> In terms of managing bad, like what does that look like?

>> Say it again.

>> In terms of managing bad day to day.

>> Yeah. What's that look like? Like the standard calls, wallpapers in the morning.

>> Yeah. So, uh, we do a daily, uh, daily huddle. So, there's, there's three components that we do on a regular basis for sales teams. One is a weekly huddle, which is basically kudos, who did the best job this week, who did a great job on show-up rates because that's a huge thing that I think people wildly undertalk about is like who actually worked their leads really well. Um, so, we give kudos both on close rate and show rate. Uh, then we, the, the sales manager will bring up any specific problem that he's seeing everyone dealing with, and then role-play around that specific thing for everyone. And we'll watch game tape, right? So, so I said that out of order, but it's like kudos, show-up rate, close rate, um, game tape around the specific thing that we want them to, that we want them to improve on, and then we role-play back and forth. That's the weekly. Uh, on a daily basis, it's like that, but shorter, and it's just a quick huddle. It's, it's like getting everyone oriented, and then

>> Yeah, 30 minutes is fine. And then we like to read testimonials, like one or two a day from the week before. So, it's like, "Hey, John, remember that lady who, you know, you had to arm wrestle for an hour to get to buy? Well, she just, you know, she just bought her first house," or she just, whatever the thing is, because then it reminds the sales guys why they do this, because sales is a tough job. It's very repetitive, and you have to like keep your motivation high. And so reminding them why they do it is important.

Um, the third element is the individual coaching, which is the individual feedback. Uh, that's done basically in an inverse frequency to the skill of the rep. So, basically, the better the rep gets, the higher their, you know, their close rates, how much above KPI they are, the more of a leash they get, you know, the more slack they get. If they're newer or they're not doing as well, then they get into more frequent cadences of communication with the manager. And then the manager has the salesperson send them, uh, the calls they're struggling with, like, "Hey, I should have closed this one." And I, I personally prefer to have them not send their train wrecks, um, unless they're curious about it and have like, "Let's talk about the ones on the fence and what we could have done to improve that." And when you're giving the feedback to the reps, it's like, you'll see 20 things, and you'll want to throw up at how bad the, the call is. But you just have to pick one thing, the biggest thing that'll make the biggest difference in their sales. And you have to just drill that until they get it. And so if it takes a week or two weeks for them to like, "You need to establish, uh, rapport faster, you need to maintain the frame. You lost the frame right here. You see where you lost it? Okay, let's, let's, let's role-play that." And it's like, "Here we go." And then you go into it. And so role-playing is basically the only way that I've effectively seen people, uh, change behavior besides modeling, which is when you watch someone else do something well. So, it's like, you watch someone do it well, and then you do it well yourself. And so we, we, we follow the 3Ds of document, demonstrate, duplicate, which is like, first, we have the process, we've documented it, and that can either be a recording or a script or both. Demonstrate, I show you how it, how it sounds, which also is done via recording and live. And then duplicate, now you do it in front of me. And that's basically the process that we try and use to transfer, like, a basic skill from one person to the other.

>> This might be a dumb question, but like, when do you know it's time for them to just go?

>> Yeah. For us, if someone's below KPI for 14 days,

>> 14 days.

>> Do you do project? Do you do projections for state?

>> Uh, what do you mean?

>> So, for example, like at the start of the week, sales person says, like, "I project for this week five deals."

>> No.

>> I don't. I think the only reason that that is the projection stuff is helpful is if you're like in very long enterprise sales where it's like, "What's your pipeline volume?" It's like, "I've got three more calls here. I think maybe a couple of these guys will fall through." But fundamentally, like, what value does it serve for them to guess?

>> Yeah. Well, it's helpful for marketing if they need more of those leads.

>> So, sales utilization, we track, but that's, that's not a, basically, I don't, I don't care what they think they're going to close. I care about schedule availability, how many slots do we have, and then how does that relate to ad spend so that we can fill the slots up. And so for us, um, I'm actually pulling this data right now, um, to have like a really master metric I'm going to share on this, but, um, my preference is not that sales teams are fully utilized. So, full utilization would be that you have a call every call slot of the day that's booked in. That'd be like 100% utilization. I prefer like 80-ish percent because then you've got that little bit of extra time to squeeze the pipeline, make sure you get that follow-up in. And I've seen that the overall lead conversion is higher if the sales guys' calendars are a little bit empty. Now, two empty, and then they lose momentum. They get too like commission breath because they're too desperate to close deals, and that's not good. But like 80%, they stay momentum, they take calls, they get hot, and they have enough time to do some of the follow-up they know they should be doing.

>> Absolutely. And the framework is just for managing the sales trap. Do you use a similar framework for managing the delivery?

>> Same. I would use the same exact setup. It's training people. It just, sales just happens to be one that I think a lot of, if you have a department where many people do the same function, sales, in my opinion, is one of the most researched departments for performance management out of everything in an organization because the feedback loop is so tight. So, we know what works in sales. And so I still think you can take the exact same processes there and apply them to any department. It's just you have to be more creative in terms of how you apply. But the fundamentals are there. Great. Just real quick to just revert back to the, the 14-day. How do you know? Like, so you have like an A-player who's just hot, hot, hot, and he goes under KPIs for 14 days. I mean, do you still kind of like

>> Give them some slack because you're like, "I know what you're capable of," but

>> Yeah.

>> No, it's a good question. If someone has, like, if someone you sold for five years and was a top closer for five years, and then has 14 days,

>> Think about it like a long-term relationship. If you're on your, if you're on your first or second date, and this girl just is a [ __ ] train wreck, you're like, "My god, like, I'm good, right?" But if you, if you were in a relationship with them for three years, and they had a bad week, you're like, "All right, like, I have a long history of like you not being this way, so I'm willing to extend my normal grace period."

>> Because

>> Yeah.

>> No, if I'm being real, like that, like fundamentally that's what it is. Like they have a shorter leash because they haven't proven anything. That guy, and I would have this discussion straight up because the nice thing is that when you have a guy who has closed, then all we have to do is see what changed. And so that's why having the hot, your hottest, your hottest, uh, your hot streaks, we're like, "Dude, let's play this side by side." You have their best closes, and what's happening right now, and you're like, "Play." And then it's like, "Oh, uh, hey, Mrs." And then you're like, "Pause. Play the hitter." It's like, "Hey, welcome to the call. Let's get you going." You blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And so you're like, "Dude, your energy is totally different here, right? You notice the difference." So, like, they'll notice it. And so when we do game tape on the weekly, if you pull someone's up, what you don't want to do is have everyone tell the person what they did wrong because they will hate it. This is the first, this is how I started, and it was like, no one wanted their calls to get taken up because they would just get destroyed. And so what we did, and what we flipped it to, and we've stuck with this, is the guy whose call it is will tell, will point out all the things they could have done better.

>> That person, it's my call, I'm like, "I missed that there. I should have done this right."

>> You bring up something if they don't notice it.

>> Not even usually. There's enough, like, more times than not, people need it. And in a one-to-many setting, I wouldn't do it one-on-one. That's where the one-on-one comes in. But then this is the good part is that you have the rest of the team say what they did well. And that way they still get, they get some praise from it, otherwise they'll just hate those calls.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Can we touch some KPIs just on

>> So, it's going to be, it's, it's going to be basically click to close everything that they control. So, it's going to be speed to contact, depending on like, this depends on how y'all do sales, but you have speed to contact, you have contact rate, then you have, if you have people who are showing up, then you have a schedule rate, then you have a show rate, then, uh, of show rate, you have offer percentage. So, that's qualified leads if you have different levels or tiers of leads. From offers percentage, you have closing percentage and cash collected. And so

That'll give you, uh, and like if you want to go downstream, you can also have refund rate, chargeback rate by rep. And then that, like, this is actually a 2011 advanced tack, but a lot of times, especially in the high ticket world, some of you guys have like chargeback issues and things like that. If you trace it back to the rep, almost always, like, if your chargeback rate goes crazy, it's one guy changed how he was selling it. It's, it's, it's been unusual in my experience.

"Overpromising."

"Yeah. They sell hot."

"Yeah, they overpromise."

"Okay."

"You ever eat such taste?"

"You're going to make so much like."

"No, no, no. But they do it because people want to hear it."

"Yeah."

"Weird like six bucks."

"Yeah, it's warm."

"Yeah, it's warm and the ticket price is low. Typically at that rate, we raise it. You close two out of three, you can probably raise the price by like double."

"Well, then we did our group on board as well. Instead of doing one, we did like one to five and the close obviously dropped, but then it's going to like five."

"Mhm. So just looking back on that."

"I'm fine with leverage selling."

"Just a numbers game at that point there."

"When you're doing one to many, you can also create a little bit of like a mini live VSSL, like a little like a, a small person webinar kind of."

"You have."

"Yeah, and that can create that can create a little more consistency."

"And I mean, when you have a deck like that, then the variations between rep gets smaller and smaller because the words are literally the same and so then it's actually just the delivery of the slides."

"Okay. I think an interesting way to think about it too with, um, what we were talking about before with historic high performers in sales or delivery that have a drop off. I like the professional athlete model where he has like a goal scorer that they're amazing. They've been the top scorer MC forever. You can drill skill and stuff like that, which is great, but what's they always bring in a mindset person. So it's usually a belief shift or identity shift that gets them back into that group. When you're hiring, uh, when you're hiring sales people, do you, and you need, for example, like closers? Do you start most of them as lower level positions, like just phoneers, and you build them up, or you hire directly for closers, or you starting them as BDRs?"

"It honestly depends. I'd love to give you like a, a, this is the only way to do it every time. It's like, if I, if I recruit the top rep at a cloned competitor who's selling a very similar product, that guy's not is typically not going to start on the cold call floor. If I have a reputation of attracting the best salespeople and I say all salespeople, no matter what, because that's the culture that I want to have, then all sales people start setting. And so like for acquisition.com, for example, like we start people setting. Doesn't matter where you come from. Like that's because I want a culture of like, no one is above the system. And that's because that's how I like to run things."

"Yeah. And when you're when you're starting."

"But they can, if they crush it, which they should, then in a week I'm like, dude, you're outperforming the top setters by 3x. Like, yeah, let's get you in. And then, but that also gets them also a little bit of, I mean, you don't really have setting per se, but it also gives you, they get to meet the prospect in a lower stress setting. And so they get a little bit like, it kind of like gets their feet wet before they dive in and that's worked very well."

"Are you guys, you are you guys like closing live on Zoom or are you using like they got PowerPoint or?"

"Depends. It depends on the company. I mean, we've got, yeah. I mean, literally we sell everything from insurance to software to, I mean, literally everything. Yeah. Cuz like years ago we had, uh, we were selling very complex life insurance."

"Yeah. You sell via Excel sheet. What we, what we did was is we, we saw the rep, you know, speaking live and they saw them. And then what we realized was we could actually create scripts and then adjust PowerPoints. So where the literally a newbie could come in, read a script because they're not seeing them and use the ums, pauses, and then hit buttons and then basically move the arrows on there and the closing rates for like new people skyrocketed. Yeah. Via Medium. I'm not, I'm not really. I've sold everything. Like I've sold via phone call, I've sold via Zoom, I've sold in person. Like I just do what everyone's more efficient for whatever, you know, acquisition system we have. Alex, how are you thinking through, um, deciding between you're hiring, you're incentivizing the sales director partner person who may or may not bring their own reps who keeps and comes?"

"Sales director part where's the partner partner?"

"Well, because we incentivize they get each partner."

"Like an override. They bring."

"An override."

"Well, like a rev share."

"Yeah, like a rev share."

"Share the sales manager, right? And they."

"If I choose to give them a rev share."

"If you choose, if that's the way you incentivize and say they may or may not bring their own reps because they had like a closer interactive thing, right?"

"Versus you just hire a sales manager who has, you know, old guy experience."

"I mean, if those were the two people I was choosing between, I'd for sure take the other guy, not the old guy. You're like, here's this old guy who's like out of the game, like doesn't know any other salespeople versus like this guy who actively trains sales people every day and has a huge rolodex. Like, I would probably take this guy. Doesn't that you don't figure you're not about to break really leverage that they get kind of owning your sales process almost all the rest. That's a culture thing. I like that. That's it's never happened in any company I've ever had. So I just, I don't know. I've also never had sales reps have huge leverage over me because I'm like, are you going to tell me that I don't know how to build a sales team?"

"Right."

"What are you saying? You know what I mean? Like, if someone were like threatening it's like Elon with threatening me with money, threatening me with sales. Like, like I'll go get more. Like, what are we talking about? So no, I think I think where I think where those guys get leverage is when they have a founder who has no idea how sales work and then they would just be lost without them. But I mean, that's just like entrepreneurship in general. Like, if you, if you have a developer who, you know, knows everything about software and you don't know anything, they're like, I could, I will stop developing. I'll take the whole team. It's like, but if the whole team is loyal to that person, not you. It's like, what, what other issues are are happening, you know? So."

"If you symbols performing sales matter?"

"It, it honestly depends on the portfolio company and what they sell. So, like we sell things from insurance to software to like weight loss."

"Review."

"Okay. How do, how do we incentivize the sales reps?"

"The managers."

"Oh, the managers. I think they get, um, they typically get an override and a base."

"And the thing is, is like overrides don't have to be percentages. Like you can just say like, if we hit over this amount of sales, you get this bonus. If you get over this amount of sales, you can get this bonus. So it doesn't have to be percent. I, I prefer to go get away from percentages because people think in pies and I don't like that. I'd rather just be like, hey, if the, the reps close above 30%, you get an extra five grand a month. If they close over 35, you get 10 grand a month extra. If you get, you know, like I like to stair step it so that jackpots get increasingly higher at incremental returns. It's like second place gets a pair of steak knives, third place you're fired or whatever."

"For the manager be overall. Yeah. For the whole team because because the, the sales director has to look at revenue per lead, right? Because that's really what they're responsible for. Like marketing is generating the, you know, generating the leads and then their responsibility is to maximize dollars per lead."

"And do they get into the conversation of the feedback on how that should be changed? Like these leads from aren't as good as?"

"Yeah. So this is one thing that I've done. I think that's a little bit different than the majority of people in the space, but marketing and sales have been very closely tied together in every business I have and I just really just call it acquisition. And so that's be and I walk through the same thing, which is like people just need a certain amount of information to buy. And so this way it's not like these two sides are against each other. It's just they're working together to try and figure out how we close the most deals."

"How do you know if it's a margin or a sales problem, right?"

"What metrics we look at?"

"Uh, so, so the reason we have offer percentage, uh, is that we'll know that if offer percentage drops, then it's a lead quality issue. That's like an an early indicator for that. And typically it's like, if you have an explosion in lead volume, sometimes it's like we've removed a step in the funnel or we made a new offer on the front end. And those things typically will wildly change what the quality per lead is. And then you have to let things shake out though, because let's say lead cost drops by, you know, 80%. If the lead quality goes down, okay, by how much? Like instead of closing one out of two, we close one out of three, but we cut our our lead cost by 80%. Let's do it. The sales guys will be less happy. And so then we say, okay, how can we increase friction? So that we can still increase our sales utilization so that they're so that they're happy as well. And that's just like the, that's the back and forth."

"Do you leave that up to the rep the offer? Like if they decide to make the offer or not?"

"It's objective."

"Yeah. So it's objective. So basically every, so for someone to be a customer, you have to, it's like, you need to be as object like they, it has to be yes, no. Do they have a credit score above this? Do they have a credit problem or what, you know, like, do they have a gym? Do they have a lease? Do they have at least one employee? Yes, they're qualified."

"Offer."

"Right. Exactly. It also works the same way with downells. So, I think a lot of you guys have, you know, like a core offer and sometimes you guys have a downell of some sort. My biggest way because like, if you've ever done this and you introduce a downell because you're like, 'Ah, let's just sell that to the people unqualified.' Then all of a sudden, everybody's getting down and no one's buying the main thing because sales guys prefer to get said yes to than make money for real because it's faster feedback loop. You hear yes immediately, money comes later. Um, and so what we do to prevent that is if the lead is qualified, you cannot sell them the downell. If someone is unqualified and you're on the phone with them, then you're like, 'Well, [ __ ] I just, I've got this 30 minute slot.' Then you are they are qualified for the downell. And that way it's like the guys have to go for the sale and not [ __ ] out."

"Is it also the ref's fault or the setter's fault if the show up is, um?"

"Show up rates on the sales. Sales rep."

"I prefer to do it that way."

"Yeah."

"I like it on the rep. Again, it depends on the process, but if I, I like the sales reps, um, owning that because the thing is, a lot of sales h like sales happens the whole time. And so being able to control as much of that conversation as possible, I think is helpful. In a perfect world, a sales person would just stay on the phone and then just like literally close non-stop. Um, but the world isn't perfect and that's often not reality. Could you elaborate on that about the show up here?"

"So, if I'm working a brick-and-mortar business, I probably won't have the salesman working leads. I would probably have somebody who's specifically a lead nurturer who all they do is work work brick-and-mortar leads. If the person's already been qualified and saw a webinar and they're getting handed off like they got self-scheduled, the rep's going to work his own schedule."

"So, the rep could be like follow-ups before the call, get in the show."

"Yeah. And that's what like, that's why we do kudos on show up, right? Because what's really interesting is the, you can increase some, it's so much easier to increase show up rate for a team by like 20 or 30% than it is to increase close rate for a team by 20 and 30%. Like, I could like, you can take a show up rate that's 50% and make it 80. You can for sure do it. Taking a close rate from 50 to 80 really [ __ ] hard. But the thing is, is that they mean the same thing to revenue. And so I think it's one of the most underappreciated, underutilized parts of making money is the like, because lead nurture is not sexy, but it's super valuable because if you do follow up with people more, they tend to tend to buy more."

"How do you know they transition from the books call versus the just the guy who call you and get you something?"

"Well, for you guys, you don't even have lead nurture. Like, lead nurtures really just be the marketing, whatever automated information you're sending them to increase the likely they buy and then your guys are just calling outbound. So yours is very simple. You just want honestly, you just need a really good dialer so that you maximize talk time. We talked about sales. Anyone ever questions? I could talk about sales literally for like two more days. So like, um, we good on sales? We can do more. I don't care. It's up to you guys. Okay."

"Team who's not covered well. Right."

"Yeah."

"I think we have war sales."

"Okay. It's for the seven day free trial, right?"

"Yeah."

"So, we were considering if we should do on boardings after they started a free trial."

"Mhm."

"We're curious about your thoughts."

"Versus before."

"Yeah. Because like the conversion number just getting them to start a free trial, which is really how that kind of."

"Well, I mean, I think it could be a really, really powerful thing if you get three times as many people to take trials and then you just basically make the onboarding the call to action to start. That's probably going to make you more money."

"You got one on the inside. So like six."

"The second onboarding or something."

"Yeah."

"So fundamentally, like the more you, you talk to them in theory, the or the."

"Yes, there's just cost associated like there's, you know, there's headcount and resource allocation. So this, that's the trade-off is like, you could all, there's a hundred things we could do to grow the business. It's just, is it the best thing to do? Is there a way to move them out of the trial? Like, is there a way to say just pay now after they've done the trial. That's how I want affiliates. I just got everyone to claim their URL and move them out of the 14-day school trial and."

"Like you could start free. But I mean, we can add one. Yeah, because if they could do the free trial, then jump on a call and then you just go, 'Well, let's get that commitment from you like right now. Why wait for the trial?' They have this photos."

"Yeah."

"They're like, 'Upg upgrade from the trial at B4.'"

"Pardon?"

"Huh?"

"You did the test. I thought you didn't want to do free trial."

"No, this was for affiliate. So, everyone started their community and then I just got them to claim the URL. So, you, you'd be on the trial for like, what, a day, 2 days, and then they'd get the URL. You can move out of the 14-day trial. It's a great incentive to to do that and it works really well with school communities cuz everyone wants a nice URL because they're all available."

"Yeah. If they could upgrade on like day four or seven and start paying, that'd be sick."

"Exactly. Which is an incentive and you guys just back it with like, I don't know, some extra magnet or something. Yeah."

"It's not a feature."

"But if you get off the call, they still have three days left to make a decision. And I don't like that. It's like."

"One 120 129. There you go. 129 a month."

"150."

"Well, yeah, sure. I'll take."

"Oh, 150. All right. 150."

"He's like, I see it. 200."

"If you're going to pay that extra difference, he spends on memes."

"Each trial of feature. What's that?"

"Oh, that would get abused."

"Yeah."

"Yeah. Like the customer has to the customer has to choose to buy voluntarily."

"Dude, there was a button in there where like you an admin could uncanc someone's cancel. We, we thought it might be useful for support or something and it got abused heart."

"So we quickly removed it."

"You didn't even have a warning. I did it. I tested it in GIF and I was like, uncanc, you're cancelling and it just went straight through. I was like, what? I didn't even get to choose. Are you sure you want to do this? It just went, he just went back to a paying member straight away."

"That's no, because because if you think about it, when you're in the cancelling state, you're still paying. You just haven't reached the end of your cycle yet. So it scheduled it. So cancelling a schedule of a action is not as extreme as as actually cancelelling it. You know what I mean?"

"Yeah. It just means they'll just renew. So you just wait till the last day then just."

"And plus it's better for you guys. There should be more friction to cancel than uncances. Just a question helping me see what I can't see. Uh, going from like 100k to doing those most uh and uh structuring a sales team. What are some things I might look out for or be aware of?"

"Yeah, if you're going from 100 to 500, you'll probably need reps that are taking calls."

"Just being honest. I mean, there's some guys I know who do, but like, there's so few compared to how many guys have phone teams. Um, but what should you be aware of?"

"With a 20 or 30k offer that can go up? Uh, but yeah."

"A three group offer like a bundle of three groups at once. They."

"How I could see it. Uh, but yeah, just like in terms of team structure, anything that I, I just can't see. It's something that you might, you might want to be aware of this is you. I, I think I am going to go to a call. Uh, don't promote your best sales guy to manager."

"That's a common one."

"Yeah."

"Um, you just like getting good at building a big sales team comes down to recruiting and training. That's everything is like knowing where to find good reps and knowing how to make mediocre reps into great reps. And a lot of guys have the desire. They just don't have the skill. And what's what's tough is like, this is just like a human thing, which is, um, people aren't very good at teaching stuff and so they just, they say like, they say amorphous, they'll just be like, 'Just be more charismatic.' It's like, that means nothing to anyone. And so it's like, you have to break it down into things that they can control. So it's like, I need you to smile when you start the call. Like, when you start, like, I need you to raise your voice here. Like, you have to tell them what to do that then people describe as charismatic, not just because they want to be charismatic and they don't know how. So we have to break things down further. So basically, the, the less skilled someone is in any domain, the more broken down the actions have to be. That's just across anything."

"Or get them to think about the difference between the highest paid actors and the ones that are never making it. It's the way they utilizing the script."

"One call, two call."

"I mean, I, everything's a, how much information they need to make a decision. Yeah. One of my favorite sales processes that I've used for a very long time is just set VSSL close. Um, I like it a lot, a lot."

"VSSL video sales letter."

"Do you put application in front of the?"

"VSSL application?"

"Yeah. Well, usually schedulers, you can add, you know, qualifications inside the scheduler and then the sales guys can look at their own calendar because I like sales guys managing their own calendar so they can clear clear people who are disqualified right off the bat. And then opens up more availability, more people can book in and then that way they talk to the most amount of qualified people and then they still set to double check and then they VSSL close. I just like that process because no no VSSL up front. You get significantly more traffic. It's just, it's probably been the highest throughput method. Like, you could just go VSSL straight to a one call. I just like call VSSL because then it's like, it is the second call. They feel like it's the second call. The first call is low pressure. We actually can screen. We can have a hard takeaway angle cuz we're not asking for money. There's a lot of things that I like about two call closes."

"In terms of top closes."

"And one call closes into becoming two call closes half the [ __ ] time it is."

"In terms of top closer, in terms of sales manager, that's basically."

"Say it again."

"In terms of top closer to sales manager, that's what we're trying to do."

"Do you have any tips on what I do that still? It's just that traditionally the absolute best salespeople tend to be like psychopaths and."

"Don't. Yeah. Just don't care about anyone besides getting credit cards. And so they tend to not, they tend to not always, they tend to not be as good. I mean, one of the, the, the top rep that I have from Gym Launch, I pulled into acquisition.com and he's the sales director for all of our stuff. So, but he's also like my child and I have raised him like my own kid. And so, um, right, uh, and so I drilled, I was like, you need to become a different person now. You need to change all of your behaviors. What winning looks like is completely different now. And so, like, you need to train these guys. Like, that is how you win. But many closer closers, especially like career closers, like they just want to close. And so they think is they think that the promotion is a career advancement, but it's like, you just have to understand that you're going to make less as a sales manager than you do as a closer. Like, top closers almost always make more than the manager because being real, closing at that percentage is a harder and rarer skill. So when they set and they were asking question, those questions end up on their calendar, but that rep opens and need to see what the responses were. You're saying there's someone else who will confirm the call or the closers produce?"

"Again, it depends. Like, we're, you're talking about amorphous. It just depends on the process."

"Would you have you seen an AI fail call and it?"

"I haven't. I haven't seen AI calls be good yet. I am, I have my still. I've been on my, I've been waiting for this. I think it'll probably be into Q1 because I think voice to voice is coming out. You might know this better than me, but like voice to voice for AI. So right now, like AI calls is human says something, satellite goes, transcribes it, and then transcribe and then it responds in text, turns into voice, goes to satellite, comes back. And so the problem is latency. Not that the AI doesn't know what to say, it's just that it just, it's too long."

"The best thing I've seen so far, it's not for sales, it's for for scamming scammers. Um, no. It's genius. It's by this telecommunications company called O2. If you Google O2, like scam AI, like they have a video of this, they've got this old woman. It's, it's so genius. What they do is if you, once they identify the scammers phone numbers, they no matter who they dial, they just connect them to these elderly women that are AIS that just waste their time. They they're like, 'Oh, yeah, tell me more about that.' Like, it's, it's honestly genius. And they waste so much time cuz they realize that all you need to do is just keep them occupied. And with these people, and you can see how good it can get because it's, it's very, it's almost funny. Um, cuz in one of the videos, the old lady keeps saying, 'Okay, dear.' And then the guy's like, 'Don't call me dear.' And and then she goes, 'Got it, dear.' It's actually pretty good. Like, you got to watch it. But that's what you could do with that's at the forefront of that technology. So soon enough, that will be in sales."

"Yeah. I think it's like 6 months cuz I, I have a couple. I spend, I probably every month get models sent to me that are like, this is our current model. Call it. And so I talk to them on a regular basis. The issues where they have is the lag number one, and then also interrupting. So it's like, if you say something, they begin to answer and then you say like, 'Actually, it,' like they're like, and they just like, it freaks out. Uh, so that's that, that's that's the issue right now. But it will, like, it will get solved and then at that point, I think setting, setting will get taken care of first, and then shortly thereafter, sales will disappear."

"Yeah."

"I think it also depends on the price tag. You know, if you're try, if you're selling more expensive stuff, it'll be longer before, but like, I think eventually it won't be needed."

"What time parfait are?"

"I don't, I'm just saying, I, I think voice to voice is the next big thing that will come out in AI and I think it's slated to come out in the next quarter."

"I also think people will become more skeptical as it becomes more public knowledge and you know, then even when a real person talks to them, 'Oh, you're AI,' you know, people still think I'm AI and my, it's like."

"You're not."

"But it's like now, now the skepticism of everything. I mean, it, it always goes both ways."

"And then your AI talks to their AI and then it makes the decision and then, you know, whatever. Yeah. Yeah."

"But there's going to be a period of time there for a while where like, we're just going to make an absolute murdering to be right."

"Yeah."

"Both there's, I mean, there's like, we're about to go into like just such a crazy opportunity period. This is going to be like a wealth warp. It'll be fun."

"Do you think they'll have to disclose that it's AI? Because, um, I don't know if you saw there was the lawsuit against very different industry, OnlyFans, not quite different, actually, just slightly different thing you're selling, but there's a lawsuit with them where a lot of dudes, um, sued OnlyFans because obviously it's not actually the girl that's talking to them and there was no disclosure about that. Do you think that will have to be some sort of like disclosure?"

"I don't know how the how."

"Do they have to disclose it now?"

"They basically, OnlyFans have when you sign up, um, like you may or may not be talking to the real person, essentially. Just like, so they, they verify, they know this because they, they had to implement that. I think they settled the suit and then implemented that."

"I think, I think that'll be the case."

"Yeah. Because obviously, like, you're, it's like almost like misselling, right? Like that you're thinking you're talking to a human."

"Well, that's different. That's the product."

"Yeah. True."

"You just got this like fat sweaty guy in his mom's basement. He's like, 'Yeah, tell me more about that.' And the other guy's like, 'I think she likes me.'"

"It's like tid me. I'll tell you more."

"Tends to be a lot of Filipino VAS on it. Yeah, I'm sure. I didn't want to, I didn't want to create discrimination though."

"Except for the wealth war."

"No, just that like AI is going to create a lot of leverage and so where there was huge cost basis before and drops and basically delays an operational drag. It's like tomorrow you could spin up a thousand sales reps and run lead gen and have a thousand sales reps call every single person who opted in and then sell them something that's digital, which would then also cost nothing. And one guy can do that before people realize it's AI. Yeah, there's going to be a window, just like everything."

"You can just disclose at the beginning of the call too."

"Yeah, I don't think it's actually me as big of a deal."

"Like, I think if, if you, if, if Hermosi AI called somebody who bought a book and was like, 'Hey, it's me. This is my AI though, so it's not actually me.' Um, but I did train this thing on like a gazillion hours and just want to make sure that you get the most out of this book. I think people be like, 'This is [ __ ] cool.' Until it's not cool and then we'll move, you know, we'll change it. Okay, sales."

"Good. Okay, it's y'all's day. Um, you guys want to do, we can talk about sales and children, selling children. Sometimes it's like some, there's crossover. Um,"

"I'm accepting offers."

"Yeah."

"Oh, no. $5,000."

"Daniel's heartbroken right now. Uh, does does everyone here get more value from sitting and and listening here or or more from like the behind the scenes conversations? Like, what are your guys' thoughts? So maybe we have a quick conversation about that cuz I get a lot of value from speaking to sitting down with someone and learning more about their business or what's working for them rather than this."

"Yeah, less fine with me."

"Cuz it seemed like the the the vibes were really cool for that last. I know we were all off for like an hour and a half almost two hours just now with lunch and talking and some people wasting time playing video games. Other people are working on their business. But you know what's everyone's thoughts on that? It would be cool."

"It's like half an hour. Yeah."

"I think it's both because it sets the platform for the ability to have the conversation even in more depth."

"Thing is like, we had like three days to do that behind the scenes conversation though. We don't always get like, I was I was saying actually like, if this would have been the first day, yesterday would have been so much more impactful because this sets it up to inspire those questions and those conversations and go deeper on these things. So."

"Yeah, I think it's both because the stuff from here, I was talking to other people about the stuff and learning more about that. So it was like, it was good to kind of see this first then talk with people and their peer other peers in here and talk and see what they were doing."

"Yeah. So, so a both situation and and not an or."

"Cool. Talk about like affiliates and how you would utilize it if you had them well exposed to."

"All right. Sweet. So let's, uh, we can do it. Let's do ascension. That sounds fun. Who's got a good ascension process? Go for it. What percentage of people do you ascend?"

"Um, a good majority of them. Um,"

"Do you know what the percentage is?"

"Not specifically. I'm not, not very good with my numbers. Um, it works. Um, I've had people ascending literally from my meme community going through all the ranks through all different processes. Um, so the majority of people who enter your meme community send everything?"

"Um, not everything. I've had one person go right from $1 joining monthly, bought every single upsell and offer right through to the $5K, um, from start to finish, which was cool. But what I found with like ascending like ascending people into like the annual offers, um, I found that just offering like a 30 minute or like 1 hour call with whatever else it is, they really value just jumping on a call and getting that once they upgrade to the annual offer and ascend through."

"You mean as a bonus for upgrading?"

"Yeah."

"Not as the sales process to upgrade."

"No, just the bonus."

"Does anyone else have an ascension thing that's working well for them? So, we've got add a call. We, uh, we, we run a, uh, basically for anyone upgrades to annual. We run a live event. We put it on Eventbrite. It's like $2,000 bucks, but if you're part of the annual, we get discount code. Within a week, maybe se actually nine days notice, we hadund 108 people show up."

"Out of how many?"

"Uh, at that time it maybe like, we had, yeah, we had like 300 students, I think, at that point."

"Dude, like a third of the people in your audience upgrade to annual to attend the in-person thing which had some ticket price. No, actually, we we let our students come for free to the event, the live event. And at the live event, we upsold the annual."

"So you held a free event for your existing community and then upsold them annual at the event. What did you give them at the event to buy annual?"

"So we actually just had them write down on a piece of paper whether they were interested, yes or no. And then somebody called them after and sold them."

"When you called them and sold them, what did you give them to incentivize them to buy?"

"The basically the 10-month price instead of."

"Just the discount."

"Yep."

"Got it."

"And like one more meeting in person type thing."

"And so, so an additional meeting like meet up and so you gave your base membership an in-person event. A third of the people came to the inerson event. Is that correct? And then so 108 people showed up to that and then what percentage of those ended up ascending? We sold 12 high tickets at $5K, I think it was a price."

"12 out of the 108 took the next thing. And then how many of them also took the annual of the 108?"

"Well, that was all."

"Oh, that was."

"Yeah, the 12."

"And be truth be told, we weren't like scientifically trying to do this. We were just like, let's slap this together. Um, we asked them what would be the biggest, you know, value we could give. And actually, it was a day in the office kind of like this."

"That's what we did. Those 12 people, we just invited them last Wednesday. Yeah. And then filmed content with them to push out to recruit more members in the school."

"No way, man."

"So now they're, yeah, we're going to have the team edit the videos and then give it to them so they can go promote reverse filter."

"Yeah, I would encourage. We were talking about this at lunch. Um, but I think I, I would encourage a lot of you who are considering having either adding a high ticket component in or just selling the annualized version of whatever you have. It's just including some inerson event for the people you have as a part of it because one, it'll make that's that alone is already a good enough reason to do annual, but on top of that, you can always sell something else at the annual event that you're having. So it's like, it's a double, it's a double win and you get more content and more ads and everything else that you'd use and a lot of them, they're sticking, you know, they're staying."

"Much stickier."

"Yeah, you definitely shouldn't do it for all those reasons. Um, we have a pretty sick ascension process as well. It's exactly how games."

"Yeah."

"Alaska. Um, so 100% of the people that opt in for the higher ticket thing convert. Um, the average person that converts brings one to five people, usually a spouse. Um, and they become like best testimonials. They met."

"So, walk me through the ascension process."

"Yeah. So, they already have to be a member in the group."

"So, these are all. Okay. So, you've got a member. Okay. We, we made a post in the group that we refer back to when we do a cold class. So we refer people back to that post and we do let them know about the VIP after effect. Right."

"Okay."

"So the post details what they get, which is a long list of cool things."

"For VIP."

"Okay."

"Or to get it, you have to DM this other account, which is a school admin and our group. Um, you have to DM them, um, like the instructions and they already know that they already know the price and they know."

"From here."

"Right. They DM that admin. The admin responds back. You have to DM the admin your phone number. That's the first thing."

"Okay."

"That right away, you can call deleted. Um, but then we send them back a script that says, uh, send me a screenshot of you having Cash App, right?"

"Okay."

"The reason Cash App, by the way, it's easy refund without being a refund on the transaction save. You stick the button to Cash App and say that."

"They send you $50 on Cash App."

"Right."

"You hit refund when it's ready to refund."

"I'm missing this whole refund thing."

"Yeah, deposit, right? So, the, the, the issue because we're the high volume of processing, we're constantly getting shut down. So, we don't want a high refund rate on our payment processor. Right. But within Cash App, the app, you can easily send someone back when they get sent."

"I understand how the Cash App part work. I'm just trying to understand where it is in the sales process. So member sees the post, post says DM, they DM the person's cell phone number."

"They get instructions to send us a screenshot of them having $50."

"So they send that and this is for the deposit's for what?"

"To join VIP. You can't join right away. You have to let us."

"Okay."

"They're making a deposit to join."

"They make positive. That's for fun, right? Okay. So, they send the deposit. That's a screenshot. Okay."

"Right. Once we have the screenshot, we send them back the information of the Zoom call, which is a group call where they can ask questions, um, where they all get signed up at once."

"Sounds like a little mini webinar."

"Uh, it's, it's not a presentation at all. They initially join. We, we say everyone on the Zoom raises their hand and then as we make sure they."

"Okay."

"Yeah. So we tried it with two different offers. One, we tried $999, we got three people. Then we tried $750, we got about 30 people. And then we tried $500 a month. And now $500."

"I'm guessing a lot of this is still warm audience."

"It's only members of any group that can even see the offer, right?"

"What gets someone to see this VIP post? Because you said it's like you just keep referring people to it, but what's the what's the action that gets people to see that? Because obviously if it's posted a while ago, it's not."

"It's not right. So this was my question about how do we do the promo cycle to make it a reoccurring thing at a good time frame amongst other things cuz we haven't figured that out. But we still have people that want VIP on a regular basis and reps just kind of change the link, you know, as they get them because people always want VIP because they hear about it once they join the group. They scroll around a bit and, um, I think we're messaging maybe every week, every 10 days about the VIP. incentive maximless and you say, 'Hey, now that you got the first thing, which is an incentive when you first join as a member, you can get the other things which would normally cost you $1,500 bucks each thing because we do have services that we sell in the group.' And we say, 'Hey, we'll give you all the services for free. Just join this membership.' And after 6 months of being in this higher ticket membership, they get another big thing. So they're way more sticky because they have to stay to get the full VIP experience. They have to stay for six months at least to get the full thing. And this is where our our game plan. So we were able to double down on this once we have this automated PDF that we generate for everyone that joins that lets them know right, every member gets a game plan, which is them filling out a short survey and autogenerates PDF with their name on it, which they bring to their onboarding call to show the coach, hey, this is what you guys said I need to do to like have a great result and it feels customized, but it's the same stuff, right? Um, that game plan is shortened by VIP. So once they have full frame of, okay, this is going to take like a year to get everything I need. We say, well, yeah, you got VIP, though, and now you can get it much sooner, like in 30 days. You still have to wait 6 months to get everything, but it's still short in a year. So, the game."

"Happens in 30 days except for the other thing you really want, which takes half a year."

"Yeah."

"And they all say and they referred people to and they got couples saying."

"But I'm still, I'm still lost in this member thing. Like they, they see some Instagram story, you offer them the game plan, that's what they buy for one."

"The game plan they get once they join."

"Yeah. Yeah. Heard. So like that's the reason they become a member."

"They become a member for the one free service they're going to get."

"Which is."

"Which is a free sweep."

"Like a credit sweep. It's $97 credit sweep, right? That's what you guys pushed heaps. $97 and then they join the group and then they, you're saying they are seeing this post because they're in the group but."

"To be compliant, the sweep is a is a complimentary thing. It's, it's not like it's, we don't do services for to be compliant, right?"

"Yeah. You have a membership that they get a free sweep and the membership is $99. Yeah. It's like $30 coffees where you get a free gram of weed. Um, yeah, we're just getting just giving away coffee here, man. Um, might be worth doing that, right? It's like just buy our coffee membership and, uh, you get credit sweeps. Um, okay. That has a lot of pieces to it. Um, but noted. Does anyone else have a ascension process?"

"Yeah, shoot."

"We used this for the to win the school, guys. That's all. So, basically."

"Wait, who won though? And that's the zero."

"Um, so we have just master class."

"So the main group?"

"Yeah, the main group."

"Is this free group or?"

"Paid."

"So this is paid group one. Okay."

"And then we also use both the apps mostly."

"DMs."

"Yes. Both DMs."

"Oh, bulk DMs."

"Yeah, bulk DMs. Me to effort in the face. Um, towards either it was like a mini s basically."

"This is."

"Yes, towards the calendar link calendar."

"Okay. Uh, for Cisco and then they converted like 80% explained."

"Offer."

It's almost like the VIP post, but VIP. And there, and this is what you sold, uh, what price point at? $9.99 for 12 months. For 12 months, how did you process it? Did you go 99? Just like that? Was it just like an honor system? Yes. But they were contract. And so that's how you won the first time. Uh, this last, well, that's simple. That is definitely simpler. We messaged everyone and then sent them a link and then closed them. I like it. No Cash App. Cash out. There's cash out. No cash out. No deposit. Cool.

And then we also, for example, like a post the ber to the uh, and on the about page of the mastermind group as a calendar. Yeah. Got it. Just everything to that wall calendar to show you. Yeah. And that's from in the page. So that you specifically go to the 999. Okay. Take it. I got a lot of, dude, we got a lot of 99 sales on our live stream at 20 or something. Yeah. I'll say that we've seen this as a common theme over and over and over again is that the people who go live the most often just tend to sell more.

I've never done it before, but did it on these four games. The best thing or going live and they, when you go, sir, when you go live, people actually see like who you are. They get to see like the inside of like, Yeah. There's no editing. Yeah. So there's a question going live and pitching. How often do you do the CTA? Like every 5 minutes or something? I, it was what was cool was like I just waited, whatever shared a concept or idea and then just Q&A and it was all in the Q&A and to the Q&A, like just by saying, was that was it you who was telling me this? It was like, um, I was talking to somebody about this, but it was like the they would have to say their pitch and like every time they answered a question, it was just like, it was him. Was it you from like another time of like the last, last time he told? Yeah, cuz I remember. Made more people buy. Right. He did that on the Zoom. Uh, not like this time we did YouTube, but the zoo, uh, the sound was on. So that and I didn't realize that everybody could hear every time. We did that on our webinars as well. So we're like, yeah, there's like this many spots. If you draw the next ding ding ding. Oh, it works so well. Cuz I was trying to do a demo of annual and then one person saw the URL in my screen and purchased. But then once everyone on the webinar saw that someone did it, it just started coming so fast. I couldn't concentrate. So it like it does something. Like people want to join them. And the sound and the thing popping up. Yeah. I didn't mean for that to happen. It was perfect. Honestly, it was like a live demonstration. Like, yeah, that's what we did on the webinars or the not the webar, the live stream. We had like a prompt in the corner. We was like, what was it? Every sale was five push-ups or something. And then, what was it? Every what was the one for every 10 sales or something? You did give away. Oh, yeah. We did like a giveaway for like every 10 sales. So like, and then we like ref.

Didn't you guys have some kind of AI Sam Ovens on that thing? Some random guy like found our link to join the call and he was just like, I'm Sam Ovens. And then he just kept talking. Like, we have no idea to this day who, we don't know who it was. We thought it was like a. No, it was a real person. Yeah, he requested to join. It said Sam Alvin. I was like, "All right." Yeah, because we shared. The screen was black and he was just talking to us for like the last five minutes and we won. Yeah, we shared the link for like two seconds to the room and he saw that and then, yeah.

All right. So, the lives was uh good. Obviously, we call the Cash App method, which is if you want to do that for the ascension, you can. Um, I like this. This feels simple. Uh, I, I'll bring up this little added nuance. Um, in terms of timing for ascensions. So, I have found that if we imagine this is a, uh, a timeline, that immediate ascension, so like 24 hours works really, really well. The next big point is kind of like milestone, which is like, uh, some, some big win, like you clear your credit, or you get, you know, you make your first sale, you get leads from your lead genen thing, your first referral, you, whatever, like whatever that like that first thing. It doesn't have to be the ultimate goal, just like some leading indicator. The next one is the halfway point. And for whatever reason, uh, it works. So, I'll just say that like, why halfway? I don't know. We say it's like, just a reason why. So, it's like, hey, we're checked in. You're halfway through. And so we, we position this as a feedback meeting, which is like, what can we do to help you get better? And the nice thing there is that you win either way. So let's say somebody's had a great experience, then you're like, oh, if you like this, you're going to love that. And if someone hated it, then you're like, oh, you know what? This is on me. You need more help. That's why you're best fit for this. Doesn't matter. Like either way, you, you can present the bigger thing. Uh, and then over here at the very end, you've got last chance. So, these are the kind of like the four, four places that I've seen as work really, really well on a timeline. Um, and most people wait until here and you're missing like 80% of the sales are here. By the time people at the end, they have to like make another decision to buy and it feels, it's a different sale.

And this is depending on like how long the membership is, basically. So, if it's 30 days, this is all happening in 30 days. Okay. And if it's annual? If it's what? Uh, annual, 12 months. Yeah. Yeah, I would still probably frontload most of that. Oh, yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So, basically just person. Yeah. So, like if this were a 12-week thing, for example, it would be like immediately we would sort people off onboarding into who we think is a good person who can ascend. Milestone would be like you got your first high ticket sale, your first some sort of positive event. Feedback would the the that meeting would probably be somewhere in the like four to six week part point and then and then the end would be, you know, week 10, week 11. This is really big. We've done this a lot of companies. It works really well. Okay. Any other, any other notes on ascension? Any questions on ascension?

I would just say like a note would be, um, like at at mastermind.com, we would, um, once they like bought VIP, we would send them like basically a Zoom background so people are able to identify that that person had ascended as sort of like a badge of honor and then you start to see like in Zoom all the background showing up and then you're like, oh, I really want that. Like, and so I think like the badge of honor is a big thing. Yeah. No, I think it's right. Uh, like within Neotokyo, they have like different like you can become an elite meter, uh, elite member and then you basically your username changes color to identify like what level you are. And so like I think that that's really a powerful thing that could be implemented in school in some way or like you guys could use in your school groups of like having that like badge of honor sort of like you guys do leveling up people through the different points. Emojis. Yeah. But then like, yeah. Yeah. So if it's like their their username changes to show their status or something of like just something, you know.

Something I could add to that that if you, I don't know if you guys have thought about this, but when someone joins, if we could force them to post the social, so it's like connects the Facebook, Instagram, whatever it is, like, hey, I became a member of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you should check it out too with their link. That would be huge. Um, bringless voicemail, um, that's that would actually make it customized. There's something called Drop Cowboy Subway, you can use now. You have to use it outside obviously. That's huge. Kind of like a school check-in. Yeah. Like you remember the old Facebook check-ins when you'd like check in at the grocery store or whatever or the gym. Yeah. So in in prior, it was like Foursquare. Yeah. So it's basically gamifying a lot. Gamifying your onboarding. I used the hell out of that for gyms. Yeah. So for our weight loss challenges, people had to like their workouts didn't count unless they checked in on Facebook. And so I'd have like a hundred people every day checking in in a local area and like three times a week to just have like this just onslaught of people being like, you know, four workouts in and they were like, of what? And then I like look at all the people who commented and I'd be like, hey, want to buy some. What he said is our most significant rollout this month. It took us about a week, but we use this app. It's bannerver.com. They have this API thing and you can upload a picture and then it puts it in a template. So, we gave all the VIP members a gold circle. So, inside of school, you can see clearly when you scroll through and like the the community cooks who's VIP and who's not. Um, when we made an announcement about, hey, everyone's going to get a dedicated circle depending on the team you're in or the VIP status. That boosted engagement makaton like that was the biggest adoption we had. And then we set up onboarding process to make sure that everyone who joins gets their updated profile pick and that is helped with stickiness and churn and adoption.

What's churn? Dropped 10%. Um, but it's in still in the 20s, 18, 19, 20s, 21 year. I think the teams thing you had was good. Yep. That's everyone on individual teams. But now we're like, "Okay, we sent everyone to the breakout rooms, but the breakout rooms didn't have the same level of engagement." Um, so last session we had on whatever last Thursday, um, we tried just putting everyone in one big thing, but I think what he said about having the Zoom profile pictures be the identifier would help us get that back up because now people are joining the Zooms and they're like, "Wait, what team money they get?" It was legit. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Sweet. Um, narrowed abroad. Who had that one? All right. So, uh, what's the niche right now?

Uh, so specifically in Sou's case, it's influencer marketing, which doesn't have much search volume at all. Search volume. Yeah. Like on YouTube organically. Start an influencer marketing agency. So like if you're searching on YouTube, SMMA, you get fed with everyone. eman's left right center, but influence or drop shipping, whatever, but influencer marketing is still one that the search volume's not massive and if you do search it up, it's me and Gary Vee, pretty much. Um, and I think the kind of point is like, I guess we kind of want to try and hit that SMA like audiences as well in a sense, but like not go too broad to the sense where it's like we just become another SMA kind of branded program, if that makes sense, but we're still like very much that leader in the influencer marketing space and like we're knowing. And we're kind of like as it grows, like that is that is us. What's revenue right now? What? What's revenue? On the, uh, on the school? Well, yeah. In in the main business. Well, the main business is 4 million a year. Okay. And what's, what's the problem are you're solving for? You said you want to consider going broader. Um, so pro, basically right now, the main thing is that we help people who are interested in, I think the majority of the people who have tried another business model and then discover influence marketing as like, this is this cool new way. And the the kind of program that helps people go from start and scale influence marketing agency from zero to six figures, essentially. Uh-huh. But why do you want to go broader? I didn't needed to be fair. I, I'll rephrase it. How like, uh, getting people to care like about something they don't know about, if you get what I mean. That's just biz, right? Like every bizop is some like unaware audience and then you introduce the problem and you walk them through. It's like every time we try and break out, um, it's about like, I don't, it's all good getting views, but if it's if they don't convert into any money, then it's like almost a bit of like false dopamine. Are you running ads or organic? Organic. It's all organic. Yeah. Content or SEO? Uh, usual content, LinkedIn content. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, that that business model is ripe for ads. I mean, like every every large business opportunity, which is what this is, starts with kind of like a blind open. So, it's like you don't know what the opportunity is about. And if anything, saying the opportunity in the beginning usually kills conversions because people think they understand it already and they've already made some sort of decision about it. And so it's like you have to kind of like slow boil, you know, the frog, uh, on your way in. But I don't think trying to call yourself something that you're not is is the right. I think it might just be like, how do we, how do you get more, how do you get more people interested in in the thing? Yeah. Do you do like the difference between SMMA and influence? Yeah. And those are the videos that tend to do pretty pretty well. We've done a lot of those like comparison ones of like, don't start an SMA, do this, or why, don't wholesale, do this, don't, yeah. It's about like, like what we try and do is relate like a broad top, well, do a broad topic and then relate it back to what Su's doing. Yeah. So that's fine as long as you're not like, to me, that's that's just creating a wider hook. You're not changing your business model. You're just trying to capture a larger percentage of the audience. Yeah. That's fine. That's so basically you've heard of, I think I talked about this at length, I think last time, like Eugene Schwartz's level of awareness. So you've got unaware, problem aware, solution aware, product aware, most aware as kind of the levels. And so each of those, you know, if you've heard like, uh, do you wake up to pee more than three times a night? That would be problem aware. They're not, you don't know that they're whether they're going to sell you dandelion supplement or whether they're going to sell you some pelvic floor exercise. Like the the hook's so open that it can bring a huge amount of people in. Um, and then, you know, solution aware would be like, basically, uh, on the other potential, uh, solutions, that's like SS SMMA versus that, like, you know, what I'm saying? So like the, the more pain driven it is, then the wider the wider the audience that it'll get to. And then the, the big, the tip, the, the biggest one at the top, uh, unaware, you get through through curiosity. So, if you ever see those crazy like ads that are like, uh, five reasons banana, like just like these crazy, like they're just super cur, it's pure curiosity and that's what gets people to go. And that's when you're just like scaling crazy amounts of ads. Does that make sense though? So, I don't think you need to change your business. I think it's really we're literally just talking about changing the hooks. Making them more broad. Yeah. The content that you're using to attract people can be broader, especially because you're bizop. If you were like in the hook, don't do this, you guys can do this. So he's like in home services and stuff like that. Like that'll just, you don't want everyone. Yeah. You want guys who have home services businesses. Yeah. So just to be clear, like who that applies to, that doesn't apply to. Are you guys sending them straight from like YouTube to school? No. Or like a webinar? YouTube, YouTube to like newsletter, usually. And then newsletter goes to like a, has been going to like a landing page before with like a VSSL for call, and that's been the way. Yeah. Cuz the only thing to keep in mind is if you go broader and like further up the funnel, is you have to change your sales process. Yeah. Because there's a lot more psychological steps that you have to take them through. So you have to convince them like that first, they should start a business. Then you have to convince them your business is the right kind of business to start. So you have to go up like a few levels to be able to convert them. So kind of just more like nurture during that process. Colder, there's more information to make the decision. So like the reason direct response scales quickly and then stops is because you hit the tiny most aware audience and so then they don't need much information to make a decision because they already have so much background information. They already know the products, they know the problems, they know the other solutions that are there. So you're just like most of the time just making offers and that's what the vast majority of people do when they start out. They just make an offer, which is fine. But when you start expanding past that, it's like you can't just have an offer driven, uh, hook. It has to be, has to, has to be bigger than that.

To help with the narrow broad thing. Yeah. So, but you know, okay, affiliates is coming for instance. Maybe that's a good place to start and then like maybe anything else that you can give us if you can. I know you don't like to say much about what's coming, but, affiliates video. Video. What about school games changing? School. Yeah. Changes like what your guys' plan. Yeah. Some updates to school games. Probably some new playlists on the cat and memes. Do you want to expand on school games changes or not? Um, well, it's not 100% yet, is it? I mean, I think it is, but sometimes I change my mind. Um, but I'm pretty sure. I'm curious. No, we're thinking about doing it over 90 days instead of one month to stop the pump and dump. Well, you could still pump and dump, but you wouldn't win. You'd have to have a massive pump. Well, yeah, you would have to pump continuously for third for 90 days. Um, need a good spine for that. What's up? Check it out. Does that, does that mean that Chan comes into play now? That's the other reason is churn factors in then. So if you have good retention, you shine. Um, what else? And we, we're thinking of introduc, Yeah. So doing it over 90 days and then even doing different categories so that non-business has more of a chance to to win. Um, and then having pri, like good prizes. I mean, we've got these awards. Yeah. Does that change the frequency of, I guess, in-person events? Yeah. There'd be four year instead of, uh, 12 or 10, I mean, 11. Yeah. Maybe a little bigger. Yeah. But I don't know if that's a bad thing cuz there's almost overwhelm with the recordings anyway, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, what do you guys think of that? I mean, would it always be 90-day terms? Unless it sucks and we're like, "Well, we need to change this." Could you do maybe 60? Like, I'm not, I'm not even joking. Like, if you really think about it, we could do 24, like, 76 years. Like, cuz, two at least gives two, five years. You have to dedicate your life to the platform. I know. I'm cool with it. I just like, I don't know if that's the thing we should be innovating on, you know?

All the duration of the. So, think of it like this. So, the benefit of this is that for who you guys, well, half of you guys have won before and so the only way that we could be like, even get you guys to compete again was to like open it up so that everyone could compete for the season of madness. But on a 90-day cycle, if you have a start starting point and it's all based on growth, then there's there's no real advantage to being goat when you start. If you start at $200,000 a month, you're still to win the games. You got to get to $300,000 a month or 400. But I think this also, if it is every quarter, which is the plan, it solves the problem that you dealt with, which is like, you're like, I made $40,000. What's the meaning of life? And and so and so he's like, I just wish there was a game beyond the game. But this then forces you every every quarter, you you're baselined. And so now it's like, okay, you're at 100 grand a month. If you want to win over the next 90 days, you got to grow there. Which means that's how that's how churn gets factored and how being a bigger player is nullified. So you might have a better starting revenue, bigger infrastructure, but you have to, you have to, you have to deal with churn. If you're at zero, you don't have any infrastructure, you have any of that stuff, but you don't have any anyone who's turning away. But again, in 30 days, anyone can pump it up. Over 90, it's like it's more of kind of how business works, which is you're not just like running a promo and then just spiking sales. It's like you're playing to win.

Yeah. Would it still be 10, 10 winners? No. Six categories. Top five from each category win the one day. First place from each category, 100 grand. Each category. Yeah. So then you know, fitness, fitness will have their own piece. Where's Petra? And get this, affiliates is a category. Yeah. Right now, like the number, the number of like five person on the affiliate list is like a thousand a month. I'm curious. So I'm curious what you're experiencing right now after after being like, affiliates get 100 grand. Yeah. Cuz do they need to be affiliates to school itself or? Oh, this is for school affiliates. Yeah. Who's more likely to refer school with them? Yeah. I hope that's what happens. There's the. That is the point behind the incentive. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see. Everybody in real life gets a group. Anybody I meet, dude, you need a group. You could do a quarter over quarter, quarter over quarter Drake, and then whoever hits all four quarters through the, there's a. Even if someone wins all four quarters. Well, like, um, so in the past we used to do like, hey, 20% growth quarter over quarter. And then so some quarters, you know, if someone that really do well planning the business correctly would win all four quarters. When some quarter, you know, people that don't do well, they might hit two out of four. So four out of four, we called it fame. But long story short, you can call whatever you want. But someone who hits all four quarters, then there's like an annual prize, trip, whatever you want to call it, because it's kind of putting in the cycle of like what a real business would do, quarterly earnings, you know, and then how how you just keep advertising and keep selling and keep delivering. It's crazy. Yeah. You would win $400,000. Yes. There's that. And yeah, your business would grow too. And you would also have a badass business. And you could do inside those quarters, you could do percentage of increase and then you could do percentage of new affiliate increase. And then you could do like divide even into that. And then I think we're just doing whatever you started at. Personally grew the most 90 days. If you win four times in a row, you get an extra $400,000 or likes the 100. No, no, no. We measured MRR gain or loss. So because once you get to say like 100 or 200, it's quite hard just to even maintain it, right? So that person is, it's harder for them to win the bigger they get in, in a way, because they have to not only maintain it, but it's what they can grow on top of that. So it kind of naturally gives new people a bit of an advantage. But a big group could still grow from two to three million a month. Yeah. So it's, they've still got a chance, but it is harder. I think it's a nice way to do it and everyone thinks about churn once you make the period 90 days. Well, you can make one of the categories new affiliate, but then you could do new affiliate with three month stick, new affiliate with six month stick as a as like a subcategory within it. We could, we could do all kinds of things. I like. And yeah, to Daniel's point, this also makes annual make a ton of sense for a lot of people who want to win the games. This way it's like you guarantee you lock in that you're going to get three months of, uh, and also it really, because if you're thinking about multiple games, if you want to win multiple times, then it's like, okay, well, if we sell everybody in annual, then we know that that's locked in for this quarter and next quarter. So it's not going to turn next quarter either. Almost like real life where you care about making money.

Um, I had a question. Sorry, you guys are still talking about. I know. Um, with the dashboard data, will we eventually be able to see historically? Because I think as it is now, we can see that for the last week, but will we eventually be able to go back in time to see how what we've done has impacted our metrics? Yeah, that's cool. Makes a lot of sense. We're screenshotting and databasing at the moment. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, that's a fair. If you guys are going to ball out on the affiliate side, it'd be really nice to have some more affiliate stats in the dashboard like clicks and. Yeah, we're going to give affiliates a lot more, a lot more love. Yeah, sub IDs would be freaking amazing. So, on our, on our 157, 131,000 of that came from the affiliates. So on, just round numbers, 157,000 in MR, 131,000 of that didn't come from advertising, came from our affiliates, from our students actually referring more students. Nice. Affiliate is pretty good. Like most of our growth comes from affiliates too. So we, yeah. And it's interesting because we kind of neglect it. Um, we like literally do not. That was the idea. It's like, what if we didn't? That was our brilliant idea. So, this thing gets us 55% of all of our, uh, are like, "What if we gave a shit?" Like, that was like, "What if we tried?" Like, that would be a good idea. It'll help the, uh, stick because in order for the affiliates to keep their override revenue, they have to maintain their member membership. Uh, do you plan to give us access to email of people who initiate checkout? Email of people who? You mean abandoned cart? Yes. Yeah. Oh, okay. We'll do the sequence like, Yeah. We're already working those. Okay. You run the sequence for us. Yeah, we'll do it. Yeah, cuz that way we can, if they click, like we can take them straight back to checkout instead of getting them to log in, which is like going to kill the conversion rate. We can auto log them in. And we can test it across every single community and have so much more data to know like, this is the best sequence, the best messaging, whatever.

Okay. What would be the best way to like prep your community to want to do internal affiliates when it first gets launched right away? For yourself, like for our group, when, just have a good product, good community, happy customers, good support, good stories, cuz that's what they're going to be promoting. Yeah. Good incentive. And a good culture. Like I think that people want to share something that that they want people to be a part of, you know. I would also not be stingy on affiliate commissions. Like, be set by you guys though. I don't know, actually. Pardon? Isn't the affiliate commission going to be set by you? No, you'll be able to see it. Do you know the percentages that we can set or is it zero to 100? Yeah, why not? Do you have like one set, uh, percentage or do you have multiple, like pricing? 100 doesn't make much sense. Maybe we won't do that. Um, because there's fees and I bet you people won't even think of that. So you'll, you'll be, you'll be like minus three. Yeah. On every transaction. So call it like, n, just call like 90% 80% whatever. But you can move it. But the big thing, my point was that being not greedy, I think is a, an a smart move, especially if you have a front-end backend setup like you've got one, 125. Like I would give like 90%. I would give as much as I possibly could for my front end. If people just feed that, that becomes their business and then I know I just get free leads that I can just to send to myself into the back end. It'd be monthly though, right? For their, for their commission. Yeah. I mean, I like people making money. Yeah. People like you more when you make them money. Would it be possible to give a link to people who aren't in the group to promote the paid group? So, for example, people who maybe couldn't afford our free paid community. We can, but that's dangerous cuz then people will start like sharing those around and and joining that way, right? When an affiliate, when someone can can get an affiliate link without being a customer, then it everyone will just share those around and everyone will be an affiliate referral. So, you're essentially offering a coupon code. I mean, is that what you want to do? Monthly? Well, modify your monthly, then I guess if you would assume it, right? Instead of like 150, it'd be like 225. And imagine if 50,000 people just shared a person don't like that. It just be free getting 50,000 free. Well, that's like a coupon code. Yeah. I mean, we'll probably start with only your members can do it and then we'll go from there. Like cuz that's the mo, that's what most people want and who knows what what happens from there. And basically every big referral-based business has a minimum requirement for qualifying to be an affiliate. But whether it's a supplement company or it's an insurance agency, like every single person has like some base fee that they have to pay. They have to be a customer. They have to have some, otherwise it's just chaos. If you think about it too, it'll help your churn because I still pay for Kajjabi cuz I got like 20 grand a month in affiliate commission. I still pay. I'm like, [ __ ] Someone someone said it would be really cool to have the same sequence we have when we create a new community, which is like, if you invite free friends, school becomes free. I can't remember who said that. I think it was, yeah, it was Miles. Yeah. Your group would be free. So you could like incentivize. You charge a h 100red bucks a month for your group and then you have that in the onboarding experience that says, get your community for free if you refer three people at say the 40%. Yeah. Like if we had the same, like that specific. Yeah. What graphic? The refer three friends on the side that we remember. Oh, the the pyramid scheme. No, I call it that because you know how people, some people think school is a pyramid scheme. I was like, what is it? Like, why do they think that? So Kirby started asking them and it's that thing on the leaderboards. Really? Yeah, little box. They come in and if you present them with like, get it for free, refer three friends. They're like, what? I thought I was building my thing. And it's it's subtle, but that's all it takes to make people think that way. Right. So, would you recommend not having that for us then? Well, probably. We can just say, I mean, I feel like that would kind of be the whole thing anyway, right? You would at least weed would say that you could get it for free if you invite. I'll figure it out and then you'll be able to call it whatever you want. Yeah. When school decides to add like a second tier of subscriptions, I don't think they will. Well, I think they will. Like you're, you will have made potentially a second tier, right? Maybe, maybe not. Potentially if you do decide to do that, like put it like that. Um, does the affiliate fee go, would it go with it if that makes sense? No, we'll give you everyone on 99 the affiliate thing. Yeah. How does it work for sales tax? Sales tax. Um, what kind of sales tax? EG in Europe. Oh, yeah. So, it, it does. It's like a merchant of record thing. Do you know what that is? M. Nope. Well, ask it's technical and like not that awesome. So, like I can tell you about it afterwards. Yeah. So you would, you would settle payouts from the upcoming payout that we get paid, or does our revenue still get the whole 100% and then kind of do a withdrawal? I think we will just give you like, let's say you set it at 30, and let's say your product's 100 bucks. We just give you 70 and we'd give the affiliate 30. Couldn't we experience the whole cash flow and then you kind of withdraw from our accounts too? No, he's saying not that. It would just be, it would be like you wouldn't, you wouldn't see a a deposit and then withdrawal. You would just see, a deposit. I guess I'm asking for the sake of cash. I'm the credit guy, right? So for the sake of cash flow, it looks good to me. Yeah. But it's also like, if we do it this way, then your accounting is a million times easier because you don't have to do KYC and 1099s for every affiliate. Your accountant's not going to ask you. Imagine how many payouts there are. You'd literally have to have an agreement with every single person. So, we can do that centrally and then automate the whole, like literally this, like is good. Your your accounting with school, you get four line items of income, a monthly payout, and that's all you need to do for your accounting. That's so easy, right? And if and if you saw what we're doing in the background, there's thousands of like, like millions even of of transactions and tax calculations and 1099s and account balances and like, it's, it's insane. Like Prestige Labs, which is a supplement company, it was all affiliates and so we have different taxes in 50 states on physical products, uh, different, different payouts, uh, like 1099s and K1s or whatever to each of the 1099s in every single state and they had to be manually done, just absolute nightmare. Same thing with Allen, the software company, had like everything was, it's not, you don't want to do it. The re, there's a reason that like almost like so few businesses actually pull it off. It's because it's very powerful but very complex if you want to do it legit. Good, but they suck to do. So like most people don't even do them. But if they were easy, Yeah. Yeah. Then it would probably work really well. Anyone who comes out, I would strongly recommend giving away a ton and just having a business model that factors in that so you can just sell other [ __ ] on the back end and get free leads. All right, we feel good about the affiliates in the future and the and the future games. I think that was somewhere. Here we go.

Who's paying a lot of money for bandwidth like video bandwidth? I think it's a lot, man. What do you pay? I'm paying, uh, I think like 3,000 a month right now. Yeah, dude. Uh, with Vimeo and they're emailing me like every week that my bandwidth is over and I got to upgrade. Yeah, we just moved from Vimeo cuz that happened or what was going to happen. Where'd you move to? Loom. Yes. When they catch on, they'll eventually start sending those emails too. Yeah. Um, have you guys ever considered because I know a lot of us have groups and we're like, man, if we could just do this in Spanish, we'd have a whole new market. Like when someone registers, they give their primary language and then everything they would see in that group would be in their primary language. I mean, that's pretty pretty hardcore. If you go on the discovery page, it's like half English, half not English. That's why we want to do languages. Like, but yeah, and we will, um, but that's not translating everything like in real time. Yeah, that, I mean, I bet you the internet will be able to do that eventually. I just noticed that YouTube started autodubbing every channel in every language automatically. Did you guys notice that? That's that's pretty cool. I reckon like, there's some sites you can even go to. It says like, either you just drop down your, I think it's on Google, right? You just drop down and it changes the language on the page. Yeah, but it's not very good, that one. Not yet. It's going to be there's going to be an overlay in the in the near future where the internet's going to become open to everyone where like you can type stuff in whatever your native language is, but you're seeing all the comments in whatever your native language is and you're just responding back and forth and neither person knows the other person isn't from doesn't speak that specific language because everything you read and everything you type, like both parties are just going to be looking through a native filter and like the real internet in between, no one's going to see. Like that's not that far off because the translation service, you know, like the LLMs right now are already so good at translation. It's just the text, you know, the text just has to catch up for like user, you know, interface. That's not that far. The future. And then maybe like in-person stuff, like does school have plans for that? Or Yeah. You mentioned something about like in-person location maps or calendars? Yeah, ma'am. Would you, could you expand on that a little bit? Yes. So it'd be a man that would, um, would shoot globally. Zooming. You can see people with pins on it with that are the members, um, that we pin automatically when they join. For radius 40 miles. Yeah, we add some noise so that we don't dox anyone. I think it's, I'm, it's probably like one of the things I'm most excited about. I just think about everyone, like you think about your community, it's such a different vibe to be like, "Oh, there's like six people who live in my like city. This is sick." We had somebody like a couple months ago, they found out they were all from like Miami. Yeah. Like met up for coffee. It was really cool. Yeah. You'll also be able to put events on the maps if they have an address. And then it'll help you plan where you want to do your events because you'll see where your hot pockets are. I think I'm, I'm really bullish on it. I really like it. And we plan to lead by example with it. So like, we're going to build the feature and then we're going to do it and then people, I'm sure people will follow. Oh, it's going to be, I'm, I'm like super excited about it. I think it's going to help so many people with churn. Like this is a community platform and so it's about building community and part of community is meeting people in person and I see like internet's both ways. It's like it, it like remixes the world because you don't know anyone in your your area who's into Pokemon, but then you find your Pokemon group for everyone in in the nation and then it redistributes back out and you're like, "Oh, there's seven people here into Pokemon." But you're never going to meet them unless you have to aggregate and then disagregate everything. For us being brick and mortar, like one of the biggest, um, adjustments to somebody's business to help a barber get to six figures is joining the right shop. Is is and so if there's a shop owner in our school that's been trained, they're going to look at that map and be like, I need to go work here. It'll be huge for you and probably tradesmen for you guys. Yeah, it'd be great. I bet people like ask multiple times. Yeah, it's going to open up all kinds of stuff. It's quite interesting. That's why engagement is really important within the community. You know, if that person makes a friend, even digitally, right? They're like, "Oh, if I leave, I've been talking to John for the past month or two. If I leave, I'm not gonna be able to talk to him." But if that happens in person, even if they don't meet the actual creator, just meeting, it's better when they don't even meet the actual creator, I think. Yeah. If they, if two people, the community is the people meeting each other, right? Yeah. And creators are already burnt out. So, you know, that that helps them out. Yeah. Yeah.

Is it possible? I'm like, all right. Is it possible to make the direct message like you can reply to just like specific message? What's that? Like, is it possible to make the function like you can only reply to like specific message that you want to reply to? Because now like some people they just bum bum bum bum and it's a lot and then oh, reply like specific one. Oh, you're talking about DMs. Yeah, DM. Direct message. Yeah, I don't know if that is really necessary cuz only some people do that machine gun thing like bam bam bam bam bam. Some people just, I mean, is does it really necessary that the reply to thing? I don't even use that in iMessage. Do you? Sometime. Yeah, I don't think it's that necessary for DMs. I mean, I think there's things that are higher priority honestly, like languages is. Yeah. I really want, really want that. That's like one our mission as well. And affiliates in the mat in the video. Yeah, with the reply to thing, just copy paste it. Would it be possible where they have notification messages and on notifications you can filter on just this group? Would it also be possible for messages? Yeah, it's interesting though, cuz messages can come from anywhere. I feel like it's going to be more of an admin thing cuz users aren't going to be getting like hundreds of messages. Yeah. Well, um, I was wondering if you know, like with Snapchat, if you try to take a screenshot of someone's photo that they've sent.

The screen automatically goes blank, and you can't actually take a photo of the content. If that's something that you would consider introducing, especially because, like, the free trials are coming out, and I think some people are skeptical about people coming in for free, screenshotting all the courses, and then dipping. That really...

But there's also the computer, you know, which you can't block screenshots on that, for sure. Um, so you can't, like, Snapchat's only an app, right? But still, you can get another phone, right? So it's still not perfect.

"You could just lock the course until day eight."

"Yeah. Or only release the first module or something."

"Your free trial of nothing."

"Yeah."

"Just a feature thing. Are you guys planning to do like a course progression type thing where it's like, again, unlocking courses based on them actually going through the process of school, like different modules and stuff? Is that something at all?"

"We could. It's, it's a lot of people don't even click the completed button. Um, so it might make things quite messy, I think, and complicated. Just our idea was to create like a certification program within our school and we wanted to have like an actual proof that they did the thing. So..."

"People missed that button too. Yeah."

"Uh, in, in the community, those, how do you call that? Those threads, like the, you, you post, you make posts, right? And those posts, is it possible to like, can lock for only the people who pay for certain courses inside the community?"

"It's not possible at the moment. We don't segment the community. We only segment courses and calendar events, but we keep the community open."

"Yeah, because now, like, you're thinking, um, if it'd be like, so great if like some people, they buy this specific course, but then only like, this specific course people, they can discuss inside their own course thing."

"Yeah, that's an, that's an easier way to do it. Just create another community. It's like a free group and a paid group. It's like my paid members hang out with the paid members and they speak there and see that paid content, then the free groups, the other stuff."

"Actually better to have it separate."

"Yeah."

"We've got to be careful, you know."

"There's something nice about how you just go there and it, it appears and you just scroll down and you click. It's simple, right? Once you start segmenting everything, you're like, 'Where is everyone?' And you come there, you go there and you don't see anything. So, you're like, 'Oh, it's dead.' You know what I mean?"

"It also helps with ascension, too. They're seeing this really cool chat with this thing that other people bought. I don't know what they're talking about, but oh, maybe I..."

"Yeah, we understand that. That's like exactly like how we tell our clients to do it. Like it actually attracts people to buy their course, but then they want like some even more private thing like inside that like you're just..."

"Yeah."

"I think that the big, the big picture with some of these features is, um, is understanding the trade-off. And so it's like, I think we can all see the benefit of it. It's just there's also a cost to it. And is the benefit worth the cost? And so you, like, arguing the benefits, it's like, I think everybody agrees on the benefits. It's just, I think that the one thing that matters most is that the community remains a community. If it's not, then it's no longer a community platform."

"I do know that people want an engaged community. So, I'm trying to make sure that that's there. And I also know when I ask people, I'm like, 'Do you want to be in another group chat?' Do you..."

"Depends on who's in it."

"That's true. I just treat the community feed like a group chat. But group chats kind of piss me off 'cause you get added to it and you're getting spammed and you're like, 'My options are to leave and look like an [ __ ] or like just mute it, but then why am I even in this thing?' It's kind of annoying."

"I go [ __ ]."

"Yeah, that's the best way. But, but it's such a psychological battle that most people won't. So they'll just deal with it and resent everyone. I don't know. Group chats are interesting like that. I personally don't like when I get added to one on Facebook. I'm like, 'Oh my god.' I feel like it's there's two separate types of people. Like we have a Discord from before we were on school that was super interactive, all that. And I can't get the guys in that Discord to go to school. And, and vice versa. There's some people that just love the whole thread, the community there, and they, they don't do anything in Discord. So, I almost feel like I, I don't know, like the, like the group chats would be great for like what she was saying, segmenting it for specific courses or whatever that you have in there."

"True. But then why not just use Discord? 'Cause they're the best at that."

"Because one place is awesome. Just one place for everything, not a bunch of different apps. There's a lot of people who joined our school that like, school is like the first, like community app that they've actually downloaded and are willing to, you know, they don't want Discord, they don't want a WhatsApp, they don't want extra stuff."

"I'll throw this out there just 'cause I think it's worth like observing like the amount of discipline that like Sam uses with product creation and like what is selected to be added. It's like adding something is so costly. Like if you, like we think about adding things to the product or the community and a lot of times, I would say like a common like beginner trait is to just, just keep just keep adding. But when you just keep adding things ad hoc, it's also called cancer. And so it's like, just adding more [ __ ] does not make the, the whole better."

"You have no idea how easy it is to ruin everything."

"You can get rid of the, uh, that post that keeps asking for schedule post, free school committed."

"There's another one that I think could ruin it real fast. Yeah, people want to know that it's you actually hitting submit. I also think this is me just so like our team for making content. Um, we act like we went away from like scheduling things out and being able to like, I want someone to have their thumb over it and hit submit because there's like a hundred things that run over between your head like right before you do it because you're like, 'Fuck, is this actually good?' And then I don't know if you've ever done like right before you do it, you're like, 'I'm going to rewrite this and make it better.' If you, when you, when you pre-play stuff, you're just like, 'Ah, I'll just write this and I'll, it'll go out in a week, like whatever,' and then it goes and you're like, 'Oh, it's not as good as I thought it was going to be.' Uh, but like, I feel like just the, the fact that you could immediately get feedback from it. You know what a good post is 'cause you immediately see comments, response, likes, whatever."

"Yeah. The, I think one of the best things about school is that it feels very human, right? Like you're actually talking to a person."

"Yeah. People have offered to like ghostwrite for me like on my profile 'cause I only do school. I have no outside stuff. And my response back to them is, 'I'd never send myself, uh, send someone on my behalf to like a barbecue or like a family event because like we're all real people. Like we're all friends here. Like I would hate if I was making posts and then Kirby was responding to it and being like, 'Well, that wasn't me.'"

"I would never talk to you again if you were faking me like a conversation. That's pretty messed up. That's my feeling about it. Like look what happened to the OnlyFans dudes. Like they were pretty upset about it too. Chatting to not chatting to who they thought they were chatting to. Yeah. It's just weird. It's wrong, I think, to do that. Like obviously it works 'cause if everyone, if Horozi's chatting to everyone, people'd be like, 'Holy [ __ ], I'm talking to Horozi.' But if it's not actually him, there's something wrong about that. Unless it's obviously an AI or something and it's very clear."

"You say it. Yeah. If you say, 'This is not me. This is my bot,' then it's fine. It's just the deception that's wrong. Yeah. A lot of people think that when I chat or when I comment that it's not me, like it's only and exclusively me."

"Yeah, that always happens to me. They ask me a question in DM and I reply and they say, 'Holy [ __ ], is this Sam?' And I'm like, 'Yeah.' They're like, 'It's not a VA.'"

"Yeah."

"And I'm like, 'I don't have a VA.' And then they're like, 'Who does all your admin?' And I say, 'What admin?' That happens a lot."

"I do a little voice memo and then they're like, 'Holy.'"

"So, recruiting A players. Someone put that up. The thing is is like your perspective on how good what you call an A player today, in 10 years, you probably wouldn't hire. It's very hard to like mentally grasp something that hasn't happened yet. Which is why it's tough to like translate like how if I, if I could just give the imprint of like, this is what talent looks like, at least for me, at this level, you probably look at a bunch of your teams and be like, 'Oh my god, I think no one who works for me should work for me.' And so the reason that you can't scale is because you have too many incompetent, unintelligent people making terrible decisions, learning slowly on a regular basis, and acting as the active reflection of your brand to every customer who walks in the door, which is frightening and also the truth. And so it's, it's shifting, um, from that to consistently raising the bar. And as the business grows, your bar will raise because it will have to raise in order to keep growing. And so you can't keep bringing in the level of talent that you are right now to get to where you want to go. Like, there are people who are actually smarter and harder working and better than you at everything. And it's like, wow, that's wild. And so it's just, they're harder to find. They're harder to incentivize. Zuckerberg had this really great clip the other day where he said, uh, his litmus test now for, uh, hiring someone is, would I work for them? And I thought it was a really powerful question. Like, would I work for them? I think there was a different one that Layla had, which is like, would I want my child to work for this person? And independent of whether or not they are, uh, you know, going to be the quote owner of the business, it's like, are they competent enough? Do they have the character that I would want to work for this person? And I think that having some like razors like that has been super helpful, um, in looking at talent that comes in. And, um, one of the mentors that I have, uh, he just, he said, 'I always promise you that the best talent is in your future.' And so just like making sure that you're making room for that talent. I think Sam was telling this yesterday, is like, there was a deal that we ended up not doing for school, and then that opened up another big opportunity. It's like, sometimes, like, not settling and holding the bar and being willing to wait two, three, four more months for like the right person is absolutely the best decision that you can make. Like, just not settling. And I think that like the job of the founder is holding the standard. Like, I think that's the job."

"Yeah. You could also not have faith and keep doing it."

"[Laughter]"

"Yeah. If you act as though you had faith, what's the difference?"

"At what stage did you and Leila put things like on paper when you were starting out? Relationship and business? 'Cause we're in the same situation now."

"Relationship."

"Uh, when you say 'on paper,' what do you mean? Like, your, with business? Like, with, I think Jim Launch or whatever."

"Oh, you mean like make a partnership agreement? Exactly. Yeah."

"Um, I think she got half my [ __ ] when you got married."

"No. Okay. So, you got married. Is that the only thing you guys? It's just you got married and that was the half a thing, or do you have it like actually?"

"No, everything now. You know, everything's 50/50. Yeah. With Leila and I."

"Everything's 50/50 on paper. Anyways, also because it's easier because she can sign [ __ ] and I hate signing. So..."

"Yeah."

"Yeah. But in terms of, in terms of relationship, um, yeah, I'll just leave it there. Yeah."

"I had a quick question to piggyback off what he said. Um, like she would say that people don't understand people. Like how would she like..."

"People don't know how to give feedback and they don't know how to train. And so what happens is somebody who's one, they'll be afraid of confrontation. And so you say, 'Hey, did you tell so-and-so to fix this? You know that they need to pick it up?' And the person will be like, 'Yeah.' And then if you watch the recording of that conversation, they will literally just not do it. They will think they did it only in their mind and no one else knows. And so, first off, they won't even say it. Second, if they do say it, they will try and sugarcoat it. Third, if they don't sugarcoat it, what they'll do is insult rather than criticize. And so, insulting someone is just calling them a name. It's like, 'You're lazy, you're a dick, you need to stop being whatever,' right? But the key to feedback is telling them what to do instead, which is that you have to describe the behaviors that you want them to follow. And that's what, like, and the thing is is that that actually takes work. It's like, 'Why do I think John's a dick?' And you have to then think about it because you're like, 'He's a dick.' It's like, 'No, but what is it about John that makes me think and describe him as a dick?' It's like, 'Well, he says he's going to be on time and then he's not.' Okay, that's one thing. So then when I tell John, 'Hey John, uh, instead of saying, 'Can you stop being a dick?' I say, 'It would mean a lot if when you said you'd be somewhere at 7:00, you'll be there at 7:00. I see it as disrespectful that you don't show up on time.' But then they're like, 'Oh, I didn't know that. I will do this thing.' Or, 'Is there a reason that you don't show up on time?' And then I can help bottleneck whatever the problem if it's an employee. But either way is that people aren't direct. And this happens especially with the first layer of management, especially like the first people that you guys are hiring, is that they're afraid to be clear because they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. And so Leila is very repetitive in her talks around being kind, not nice. And so in being nice, all you do is you just delay when that person is going to get slapped by reality, and the harder that reality is going to hit them. And so we would rather be direct and say, 'I think you are insufficient right now. This is the standard. This is where you're at. This is criticism. This is feedback. This is objective. It's not like you were late two times this week.' I'm not saying good or bad. I'm saying this is what happened. But the consequence of you not doing that is you can absolutely continue to not be on time. You just can't do it here. And so if you'd like to stay here, we just need to get this to be 100%.' And so if, like, there are four things that create someone who's a dick, then it's like, you talk to them and want to, you know, you tell them all four of those behaviors. But that's the thing is that people can't think in nuances and think like, 'What is it actually?' They're just like, 'She's just such a [ __ ].' It's like, 'No, but why is she a [ __ ]? Like, you actually, like, why is she a [ __ ]? Why do you describe her that way?' And then usually it's just a couple of things and it's like, 'Cool, just tell her.' But that's one of the big, like, that's why Leila is so able to like move the team around because they're like, a lot of people want, people want to do a good job. They just don't know any better. They don't know how to behave, like literally."

"Uh, you talked about obviously the role of the founder setting the standard, right? Obviously, no one's ever going to work as hard as you in your business because it's not their thing. So, are there any sort of key things that you do to try and like incentivize or or push that standard to be as close to to kind of your your expectation?"

"I think that I think a lot of it comes down to incentives in history. So, incentives is like, okay, what are they getting rewarded for working for now? But then also like, what type of people are there? Like, there are some savages that just like love sales and they work seven days a week and they sell all day long because they love selling and they just want a place where they're allowed to sell and just do and just like with reckless abandon. Like, there's a bunch of guys in the media team that work like seven days a week and just edit videos all day long because they just want a place where they can edit videos all day long. And so I just want to make sure I create an environment that's conducive and lubricates that process for them rather than is it creates friction or, and a lot of the friction is actually cultural, meaning like if there's three guys on the team that are working seven days a week and then somebody else works five, that person is going to start saying like, 'Hey guys, you, I think you have a toxic relationship with work and I think I don't know if this is healthy, like, is this sustainable?' And you just need to get that person off the team as fast as [ __ ] possible. Depending on the culture you want to have. Some people want to have a culture that's like, 'Hey, it's 9 to 5, it's whatever.' That's fine, and that's again, that's your prerogative as the founder. But if, like, this is the way you want to run your ship, then this is the way you run the ship. Like, you're captain, it's your rules."

"That all align to that same, you know, kind of mission."

"Yeah. But I think that the standards absolutely still come, like people learn through a couple different things. But one of the big ones is modeling. Like, cross-species, like you can make a face at a monkey and a baby monkey will make it back at you. Like, people learn through modeling, through what they observe. And so if you want people to work harder, work harder. I, I've always had the position that I never want to ask somebody to do something that they don't think I would do. That's just my position. I could be wrong."

"The last smart section."

"Yeah, sure. So, was this mastermind, uh, metrics?"

"Yeah. Yeah. Metrics were..."

"I, I answered this when he wrote it. Yeah, it's just, it's the same metrics as any community."

"Yeah, I don't know the metrics. If, how do you know the product is good? Like, what do you track?"

"They renew. I'm serious. That, like, they renew."

"That, that's your churn history."

"Well, if you prepay, then it's all, it's going to be about renewal. If they pay monthly, then it's going to be about churn. But fundamentally, it's just renewal on a shorter timeline."

"That's the main."

"Yeah. In most masterminds, I think it's usually two to three times a year is the sweet spot. I think Sam, you did what? Three for Quantum?"

"Uh, what for the billing cycle?"

"30."

"Well, the 36k was three times a year."

"Oh, it's full pay."

"Three times a year. No."

"Oh, the event."

"Yeah."

"It was four, right?"

"Was it four?"

"No, we did when it was in person only, it was three times a year. And then when we switched to a hybrid of one online, one in person, one online, one in person, we did four a year. It turned out people preferred that more."

"Really?"

"Usually."

"'Cause you have to fly less."

"Yeah, I heard. I just hate sitting on Zoom all day. It's brutal for me."

"But we found we could cover different stuff. So like, we could review people's YouTubes and 'cause you've got the screen and and and you can get more into the tech. Like, 'cause we got, we only switched from in person only to virtual only during co..."

"Yeah."

"'Cause we had to. And then we thought, 'Oh, so people aren't upset. Let's just add on an extra one.' And then when co ended, we were like, 'Should we go back to that one?' And people were like, 'Oh, I kind of like these. Maybe we get a balance.' And we went with that. And it was good for me 'cause the in-person events are a lot of logistics. So only having to do two was fine."

"Yeah."

"Okay. How did you get back?"

"Zoom webinar."

"That was a webinar."

"You don't want. Dude, you can't look. These events were three days. I'm not going to look at 60 [ __ ] faces for three days. I'll lose my mind."

"They, they just throw questions."

"Have you looked at a grid of 60 faces? It's like, it, it's not good for a person."

"They just throw their questions up and you just answer them."

"Yeah. They, they ask questions in the chat. We would unmute them, right? Like, we'll get people on and like, they'll talk and stuff, but having just one shared screen is so nice. We even heard from the people being like, 'This is so much better when you've got it's chaos when you've got all of these faces on the screen.' Like, at some point the Zoom meeting grid just breaks. Like, it just psychologically breaks you. Like, it, it breaks you psychologically before, before it technically breaks."

"Did you have a structure for each day or was it just a Q&A for three days in a row?"

"Um, no structure. Like, the structure would come from the conversation. Like, we would kind of think, go around the room, see what everyone wants help with. Um, it always ended up being roughly the same stuff. It's like, you know, you do a YouTube channel, run some ads, hire a salesperson, um, spend less money, figure out what you want with your life. Um, basically in different ways."

"Yeah."

"Churn, traffic, sales, right? And, um, aside from the events, would you add anything else in the past?"

"We did a weekly Q&A and a quarterly event."

"Which sounds like that's what we're about to do with the school games."

"Yeah."

"We revived."

"Yeah, we've come back. And other than that, they could like, uh, access you or ask questions in the community or..."

"Of course, they can ask questions in the community."

"Okay. You were responding to..."

"Maybe."

"Sometimes. Sometimes."

"When I feel like it."

"Okay."

"But I didn't even have to say that. It was kind of just understood, you know?"

"Yeah."

"Otherwise, you're just like, pro selling yourself. You're a customer service rep like responding."

"And people will test that."

"Yeah. Like we used to really want to have, uh, really fast response times at Gym Launch for like questions and so, uh, if you just slow down the response, people just look in other places 'cause like nine times out of 10, they're asking for you to be a librarian and just like go find something for you, not like actually answer a substantive question. And so if you just delay like 24 hours for your response, that pretty much like, other people either respond or they'll like have figured it out on their own. So, I, I think having a little bit of a delay just makes people think about, 'Is this worth asking?'"

"Yeah."

"Where..."

"And they ask better questions, and the answers are also better, too."

"Evelyn's just launched a mastermind, exactly the same format. It could be beneficial to you guys to chat to her. It's similar stuff and she's crushing it."

"Oh, is it? I'm dead. No [ __ ]."

"Yeah, it's kind of belated, but just transitioning. Right now, it's like a hybrid offer, uh, group and one-on-one, and I'd like, I'd love to move to This sounds great. For in-person events and one weekly call and..."

"Y."

"Uh."

"You just do it."

"It all starts with selling one person."

"What about existing clients? Like, we have to be clients are kind of like in a particular..."

"How much does that thing cost?"

"There's already basically a master. Change your 2K month offer to this, and then we don't have to build another product."

"Yeah. Like, what are people paying for?"

"Same things, like in two in-person events."

"No, this can't be right."

"So you were saying you want something you've got."

"Dude, you could, you could do like, you, I mean, you could just do it in one shot and say, 'We're switching to weekly calls. You can all be on there. I think it'll be more valuable for you because you'll be able to hear everyone else's stuff.' I found that a lot of the 101 ones that, like, we don't, you know, you're still kind of working on the same thing, so we're not getting the same updates. I, I talked to a bunch of you guys and you guys said you'd rather like meet each other and understand the other problems that's happening right now. And so we're going to switch. Also, one on 30 in that Zoom setting is fine."

"How many one-on-ones do they get?"

"So you can add more frequent. It's like we're going to go from once a month to four times a month. So basically, you have to cut two things off. You have to cut off the one-on-one..."

"And drop the one on."

"Yeah."

"And be like, 'Good trade.'"

"That's the only difference. Like, if you think you already have the week calls, you already have two meetups and then you have your support 24-hour thing. So it's like, drop the 24-hour, drop the one-on-one, add two more events, more."

"Yeah."

"Two more events."

"And tell them why that's going to be better."

"It's way better."

"Dude, it's so much better."

"Yeah."

"No, that's no good reason. Like..."

"I, I can, I can by having four and doing one-on-one in person. It's kind of like 90 days. Yeah, we're going to do quarterly sprints because I want you thinking longer term."

"Yeah."

"Put because, and then insert whatever narrative you feel like."

"And raising the price to 30k."

"Sure. And these guys get in at 20."

"I'll do that later if you hit them with too much at once."

"Yeah."

"You can also say that you're going to sell this for 30 and they're getting in it. They're, you're going to grandfather them in because that then gives like, 'Oh, this must be better 'cause he's going to charge more.'"

"Yeah. That's a good way to sell it and start with just one person. Just get on a call with them. Yeah."

"And then you'll see how they react and stuff and, yeah. And then I'm sure it'll be a lot easier. They just trust your judgment. That's why they're paying you. And if you believe this is better and you can convey that, they'll just be like, 'Cool.'"

"Yeah."

"Some show."

"And Ted already helped us by telling our whole group of 101s that they shouldn't do one-on-one sessions."

"Well, that's the beauty of this thing. Do these people kind of do what you do?"

"Yeah. Exactly."

"Yeah. So the best thing about this is you're like..."

"She did."

"Like, they will, they'll love it 'cause they'll be like, 'It is possible.'"

"He just did it to me."

"You owe it to them."

"No, that's kind of how it works. It sounds crazy, but it kind of how it goes."

"Someone has to believe first."

"Yeah."

"What's, what's been cool, and this is kind of still in the same conversation, but like, uh, now having team, I do, I'm like, 'Oh man, this is a huge unlock. We can do weird videos. I have so much more time.' Uh, but it is like a different cap that I'm like, 'Oh, okay.'"

"You're going to be making a lot of extra funny videos, totally."

"We give you no one-ons, no 24-hour chats, no email, no email stats."

"Yeah."

"And if I give you one group instead of four."

"Okay. Well, if you, if you..."

"Do you work like six hours a week?"

"Perfect. So this is, yes, this is Rodor. Uh, six hours a week."

"The rest of the time can go to mains. Yeah."

"The school cafe. Uh, uh, just, yeah, same thing team-wise. Uh, yeah, couple sales guys, couple delivery guys. That's it."

"Couple of memes. Yeah, that's it."

"Do you need delivery guys?"

"You don't."

"What do they do?"

"Yeah, what the hell do they do?"

"Deliver what?"

"Implementing the system and the system."

"That's the customer's job."

"They're supporting them in their..."

"No, that's their job."

"Really. The easiest way to get away with this is it's like, this is what I told my people. I was like, 'I will never follow up with you because, 'cause if you don't do it, you're [ __ ] anyway.'"

"I actually do the exact, we do the same exact line. I unsell accountability. I say if you're the type of person..."

"No, I say I unsell accountability. I say if you need accountability, you're never going to win. Doesn't matter."

"And then again, they love it because they're like, 'Yes, I can get away with this, too.'"

"No, but it's also true. What person who's actually won needs someone to hold them accountable?"

"That's forever."

"Everything. Right."

"I have to say in the women's days, women love the..."

"Oh, I think I'm sure they love talking about it. Don't get me wrong."

"Yeah. So..."

"People love it. People love it. I just..."

"Like, women typically do need all the love and support and it's like, yeah. And do you know how I started the events? I did no preparation for this."

"I showed, I, my, I wanted to show up empty."

"Yeah."

"Um, and so you're not going to receive a Sam Ovens lecture series."

"So it's up to you to tell me what you want and then we'll cover it."

"You guys already tripped."

"It frees you completely from any feeling that you need to prepare or do anything. We've been prepared for slag with a spare lex of it."

"Yeah, we got that from the first skins. We're like, 'Oh, we just show up with a whiteboard.'"

"No, I said I would say my main job is to actually get the result so that I know how to answer any question. So, that's what you need to be good at, right? So, for so long as I'm getting it, then I know you guys can get it. But, it's I'm not going to like think too hard about how I should communicate it. You just ask me for the parts you need and I'll know the answer. What's the aspirational part? Like the everyone like trying to be an authority on something that you don't actually do. It's like that's where it's really hard because you're just making [ __ ] up and then people are like, 'I tried the thing and it didn't work.' And you're like, 'Oh yeah, it's 'cause I, I made that up.' So here's another thing I made up. Like, yeah. And then people hate you."

"It works really well. Honestly, if it's very nice and simple, but you have to, the only thing it relies on is you have to know how to actually do the thing."

"You got to be good."

"Yeah. That's all your only job, actually."

"What, but yeah, like in, in this when we're helping them, there's like, uh, you know, skill is required. There's like the, there's a scope app, uh, or there's a, well, yeah, that's mainly the main thing, like the skill app and, and so then helping them, that's kind of the accountability co, the coaching is like cultivating, developing the skill, training, teaching. Yeah. Like, that's what we do, I guess, is helping them get better at content, get better at sales, get better at running ads, better at tech, not getting overwhelmed, throwing it all in the..."

"Yeah. I just wait for them to come to me with the problem and then I would solve it."

"On the weekly call."

"Or at the events. Yeah."

"Yeah. We'll have a..."

"That way they like come and bring the problem and I should know how to solve it."

"Yeah."

"Like..."

"No."

"But it might be worth mentioning that that's like the end state. Like that was after Sam had..."

"You have supply and demand economics where people already, you have a reputation, you already have proven success, and you're basically saying, 'I only want this many people, and if you don't want my way, [ __ ] off.' Like..."

"Well, the onboarding was basically the sales group would say, 'I, we recommend you watch the last event and get on the next Q&A.'"

"Yeah, this is specifically for how to sell to higher. This is specifically for higher-end business owners. You're wanting to select for somebody who's already going to take action. You're trying to minimize your work. A lot of it, the, the benefit is going to be the network that they get. Me personally, all of the gains that I've had from the learnings have been in-person stuff. Like, almost everything I learned was in rooms like this. Like, and most of the times it was like one tiny belief that I was like, 'Ah, I did not know that. That makes a lot of sense.' And that was it. I was like, 'I'm good. Like, I got what I need.' And, and winners will win, and honestly, they'll win because of who they are, not because of who you are."

"Yeah."

"How do you prepare for it? Well, to, or how did you go into events like this?"

"So, we, so we run things in different ways, obviously. For like, if you have a small event like this, you can keep things really flexible. The higher the headcount in the room typically, the more structured it needs to be. Um, like if you had a thousand-person room and you're like, 'We have no agenda,' that would be tough. Yeah. Uh, like, basically, like preparation and scheduling is typically going to be proportional to the, the headcount of the room. Um, I tend to be a pretty big preparer for things. Um, and yeah, I tend to be a pretty prepared for stuff. So, really again, it just depends on like, if we hold a workshop at Acquisition.com, like those things are dialed to the minute. What needs to, what needs to happen at every point. There's, there's a hundred small things that must occur to give someone an exceptional experience because the experience is the product. And so it's just a hundred small things. It's like, you know, do, do we, does every person who's there, is there somebody on the team who's assigned to them to touch base with them and just say like, 'Hey John,' and they're like, 'You knew my name.' It's like, 'Yeah, you have the tractor business.' And they're like, 'Oh, yeah.' They're like, 'How's that going?' And they're like, 'Holy [ __ ], they like knew my name and they like, they, they prepared some stuff.' And so it's like, 'Okay, we got to break that up.' When people walk in, we can recognize them, say their name, like, as they walk in the door before they've checked in. They're like, 'Whoa, this is great.'"

"Like everyone was kind of a place there, right?"

"That was, I'm, yeah, that's, yeah, that's not this one. That was just for our, like, for Acquisition.com. Yeah. So, we, we're, we're super, uh, we're super prepared for stuff. Just different. It just depends on the type of event. This is supposed to be like, literally, even by the way that the, the furniture is laid out, it's supposed to be like a relaxed, laid-back, like everyone talks about whatever they want to talk about and kind of half of it's networking to your point, um, earlier. So, I think it just depends on what the objective of the event is. If someone's buying a ticket to something for a specific outcome, then usually you're going to really want to engineer that thing to maximize the likelihood they get that outcome. Here, if everyone comes with a different objective, then it's kind of like letting people find their way. Create your own adventure."

"On data reporting, what's everybody using to track your metrics? Like your ad, like if your ad spend is correct on Facebook, you know, with school and stuff. Is anybody using any or just..."

"In the 100, we have doodle sheets. Oh."

"Stupid."

"Even at school, we use Google Sheets."

"Google Sheets."

"But I mean, you also have the ad tracking side of things, too. Like, you know, Hyros and..."

"Yeah."

"'Cause Hyros doesn't integrate with school yet. I talked to them, they don't yet. So..."

"Oh, it will soon actually. I'm working on it right now."

"Yeah, they said they will, you know, the roadmap."

"They probably will quite soon."

"I'm pretty sure complete registration is just them applying. Correct?"

"No, they have to actually get accepted."

"No, wait, I can't remember."

"I don't think it is."

"Yeah, because I, I think I thought about that and I was like, 'If someone doesn't accept them, 'cause that algorithm needs really fast feedback and so if it's waiting on you to like accept them, there's a lag.' So, I think I did it on application for a free group."

"Yeah."

"Gotcha."

"Is that all right?"

"No, I don't like that."

"You don't like it? Why not?"

"It's good for sub times, but we get a lot of, um, unqualified people. Yeah. That it's kind of optimizing the pixel for people who would then fill out that based upon just completing. And since it's so easy in some ways, cost per lead isn't really accurate as we would like, nor is it really optimizing for really what exactly we want."

"True. But it's a trade-off 'cause if you do it the other way, it gets slower feedback."

"We do it super fast and accept and decline."

"You do do it fast."

"Yeah."

"And what percent would you say declined?"

"High right now."

"Like 30, 40."

"Which is also probably a..."

"Bad kind of thing."

"Can you adjust the thing, kind of thing? But yeah."

"We're working on that. Yeah."

"Maybe two..."

"Completed registration and like accepted."

"Um."

"You have two pixel events, like one for one for replies, one for accepted, and then you could, you could just optimize off either, either and see which one gets you the higher quality leads."

"Or, I mean, Hyros might be able to do that as well. Hyros will do it when it's a member. But yeah, we can adjust that. I did it because I thought that would probably be better. I'm trying to figure out if it is or not."

"Yeah."

"It's pretty good. Like, it's super awesome accurate, you know?"

"We love it. But..."

"Except it would be really cool."

"There's, there's other. No, no, there's just interesting things because if you can get the, like, when you're sending a conversion event, there's two sides. There's like server side and client side. And it's really accurate when you do both. And if you do it off session, 'cause it's, that's actually why I made this decision. Now you've brought it back to memory. Um, so if you approve someone, they're not on session when it's approved. So the pixel never fires in their client. It only ever sends on the back end. So it's, it's a way less accurate metric. It's why we go for trial starts with school instead of conversions 'cause like, you need an early signal that that can fire in the client. Purchase works 'cause obviously a purchase happens at once. This is getting pretty technical, but, um, I'm more confident in my choice now. Yeah."

"Wait, so doesn't that mean then that if you do any sales like on a sales call, it's not great data because the latency is is not instant?"

"What, what data?"

"Like if you have, for example, and you're sending ad data, you're sending..."

"Well, yeah. First of all, Facebook's attribution algorithm only has a five-day window. So if it's after the five days, it doesn't even count. Um, yeah, so off-session stuff, especially time-delayed off-session stuff is near useless. Um, for algorithm reasons, maybe good for reporting reasons, but for like actual algorithm optimizations, it, it, it's barely a signal. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's true. You should ask Austin after."

"Yeah."

"Ask. Yeah, I think, I think there's tradeoffs. Sam, you're right. That would have to be a server side of it, but you could send both, right? We could have that one signal, complete registration, where fire in the browser, and then you could also set accepted as a server side action as well. But if I happen to pass that seven-day time window when Facebook accepts, uh, conversions."

"So..."

"Austin runs ads for school."

"Yeah."

"Yeah. 'Cause I could be a psycho about it."

"Huh?"

"I could be a psycho about it pretty quickly. Except client, except client, basically want questions."

"Yeah."

"Yeah. I'll think about it. I'll talk to Austin about it too. Um, maybe it is just adding another event 'cause then you get both. Yeah. But is it working?"

"Oh yeah, we are getting amazing. Yeah, it's like the craziest thing you could ever imagine. Yeah."

"Yeah. Like, it's so easy to set up."

"You're unselling your appointment."

"Yeah. We just put it all better. It needs to..."

"You had the position."

"Girl's at home. She's in the bed. She's like, 'Hey.' And you're like, 'I don't need consent.' And you're like, 'What are, what are we doing?' You know what I mean? Like..."

"This is better. You know, boys..."

"You had the sale. That is unclosing. That's what that looks like. Oh."

"I told you, you're always one decision away from ruining it."

"It might make it better, but it also might make it worse."

"Yeah."

"That was great."

"Oh, it's amazing. It's..."

"It's amazing, but I want to ruin it. I always, I think with product, it's an interesting way to think about it is the, your customers will cheer for their own demise. It's true. If you, 'cause everyone wants a million little things, kind of, um, but then they will all leave when it sucks. I think the hard thing though is that we're getting like non-USA though, right?"

"Well, that you can fix that with your, your targeting."

"We're all USA though on targeting LA."

"Then that's not coming from the ads."

"Is it going directly from school?"

"That's coming from, yeah, organic. Yeah. But so that won't be influencing your ads. Yeah. So maybe the low-quality things aren't coming from the ads. Maybe. I don't know. Hold on. Trap bad. I don't push to it, but and I never used to get it until I started running ads. But it also could be with school, like as I won again and got more popular, it could maybe be bots, like, or things coming from school."

"I mean, school is a legit traffic platform."

"Yeah. No. Yeah. I've gotten a couple sales like from being in Blue Collar specifically from school, which is cool, too."

"You're welcome."

"Yeah. Thank you."

"We have a poll that's like, 'Where did you come from?' And I forgot to put school as an option. And the comment thread, 'Bapts' there. But then the whole thread is like, 'Found you in school, found you in school, found you.' Yeah, more than half probably just from school."

"Yeah. Thanks."

"Yeah. Do you think it's worth the, the, the 99 bucks?"

"We're probably paying you actually if you're..."

an affiliate. I make 10 like like 6K from you for school. >> That's pretty good. >> But >> free customers for for positive 6,000 a month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But don't don't raise it. Just give the >> just give me [Laughter] the sale. >> See, it's always the silence is the best tool. They will sell themsel eventually.

>> Uh, one question on the mastermind. Curious if there's a sweet spot in the number. >> Is it 100? >> What mastermind? >> Oh, size of >> Oh, yeah. Well, I it that was easy for me cuz I was like, I want to do it in my office so I don't have to book a hotel cuz there's more headache and it's also cheaper. And then I was like, how many people can we fit in here? And it was about about 80. And then I was like, well, how many people show 80% max? 100 >> sound. >> Very very scientific. Then I even had a spreadsheet to calculate the load on two bathrooms. >> Wow. Yeah. No, because it's very complicated actually cuz there's there's peak usage time at lunch. So, like we I my model said that it wouldn't work. So, I asked next door for their key, so we got an extra two bathrooms. >> Damn, I've been doing my best cuz thing is wrong. Yeah,

>> also one more question from last time. How did the pricing s start? Like did you at what point did you start and how did you scale from there? Like with your pricing? >> I think my first price was maybe like 12 grand. a front trailer plans, >> whatever I could get. And then when more people started paying full, I was like, maybe we can make it more expensive. And then slowly started increasing it and letting the people that already paid have that year so they they were given some kind of, you know, benefit and then they would pay a bit more on the next one. And over time, I worked everyone up to paying 36 grand a year and all full pay. And then it was just very clean. I'll tell you another thing that you want to do. Don't allow business partners to come. It ruins everything unless they pay because you think about your numbers. It [ __ ] it completely. >> We do. Same thing. Yes. >> Same thing. >> One business owner, >> they can bring two if they pay twice >> because it's like you pay per se. If you want to bring three people, you pay for three seats. You Because the thing is is that the partner asks the same amount of questions as the main person, but then costs nothing. But it incurs cost on the event and it uses up uh sleep. Yeah. >> It literally like ruins like all the math because 100 is now only like 50. >> Yeah. And you got max brings five people and then you're like wait if everybody brings five people you're like this whole [ __ ] room is going to be fil. >> Once you go over 80 people in a room you can't do this free form thing at at beyond 80 people. You need like AV equipment. And once you've got that and you're now like up on a little stage, now you can no longer do this thing. So you have to prepare. So these are all of the like the things to keep in mind. Yeah. >> Yeah. Like we got to uh Jim got to 700 people um paying 42,000 a year uh for the the hire thing and uh they were they were like almost like conferences. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That is a full-on conference. >> Yeah. Seven. Seven. I mean it was a lot. And so uh yeah staged the whole thing. >> Three like one day. >> Hm. >> But they were one day events. >> There two. Uh I think it was either two or three. I can't remember. It's two or three. Probably two and a half. No, but like that like if do that first get to 100. Yeah. I mean and the pricing is the same way. Same like I sold 6K, 8K, 10K, 12K, 16K, and then bumped to 36K. Uh, and then yeah, it's like right now they sell 36 on the front now. They've been doing that for a while. Yeah, basically Gym Launch has almost had only two models. 36,000 a year period and uh 16 into 42. Those have literally been the two models since like the beginning. Yeah. Easy peasy.

So big picture, and I feel like this comes up like every other every third time. um like building a sellable business has nothing to do with the underlying tech that you're using in so far as it allows you to do business. And so what I mean by that is what matters is the economics of the business. Not like it's like oh like how will HubSpot will HubSpot make my business valuable? It's like no it's just it's a it's a CRM. It's a place you know it's just it's information technology. It's how you gather, store, display and analyze information. Like no it's a component of the business. And so to the same degree like will like is a school sellable is like is a business built on HubSpot sellable? Well, it depends on the business. And so everything else that you do to make a business valuable still applies. So it's like do we have, you know, consistent acquisition? Do we have a marketplace that we think is growing? Are there good margins in the business? How how how much revenue retention do we have on an annual basis? Because anyone who's buying a business wants to know that it's not only going to not go down, but also go up in the future. And so a buyer is typically more on the risk side. They want to make sure that they don't lose their money. And so you just get a discount on future revenue and that's basically how valuations work. And so I mean that's that's it. So like can school like >> well do YouTube channels sell? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's the same thing. Same with an Amazon store >> also. It's I don't even know if school would be like notified like you would just give someone the login and the bank account. No, you can actually transfer ownership. Yeah, it's great. >> Yeah, you can fully transfer it. >> Well, yeah, our school I mean our school is probably a little bit different, but our school is basically a funneling system for acquiring real estate. >> So, >> yeah, but yeah, it's the whole business. And so it's like if I had so you know rewinding the clock 10 years ago if it was like I have my gym business and I have a group for my gym when I sold my gyms the group went with the sale of the gyms but the group wasn't like it's just a component of the thing. Now whether you process or not is another another component of it but still nonetheless it's just you have customers you do delivery you use a platform to do delivery on it. If you're really bad and people turn all the time, people are not going to want to buy it or they're going to not be willing to pay very much for it. Or they'll pay a lot for it if you have super super low churn, which there's some guys who have like 1% 2% monthly churn and they just keep growing. And so if you have one of those businesses, people are far more likely to buy it. But that's really it. Like there's not it doesn't need like that's it. Like it's it's still the business that makes something valuable or not.

[Music] email data. Is that something that we might get? >> What do you mean? >> See on a dashboard. Open rates. >> Is that necessary though? >> I mean, we could have a look afterwards to see what your open rates and [ __ ] are. >> Cool. >> And then you can see if you needed to know that. >> Yeah. Because it is a lot of extra data. And I'm always school is simple. But it won't be if we add a lot of [ __ ] like that. Um, and so I'm always asking, is it really necessary? Cuz we monitor all of these rates, right? Like we monitor them like a hawk. Like the open rates, deliverability, clickthrough, all of this. Um, same with the payment stuff. We're tweaking all of that. But if it's if it's really good and we know it's really good and it's your community is working for you, do you really need to know? because it kind of makes your life eat better if you don't, right? Like it provided it's working. If your MR is good, your churn's good, your customers are smiling at you, there's people typing, you know, it's it's online, you're like, it's good. That's all you really need to know. I think you want to know more when it's not working. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I'll show you afterwards. We can see what you think. But the email, I can tell you the email like deliverability and open rate is insanely good. >> Yeah. >> Like open rates at over like 140 million emails a month. Still like over 50%. >> Yeah. And CTR is maybe in between 5 and 10%. But I don't I honestly don't think most people even know what that means. That's the real reason. Like if you're talking to some beekeeper or whatever, they're like open rate, clickthrough rate, like, oh, I'm churning. Like, I'm out of here, man. This is They're already battling. They're already like, I can't upload a video. If we show them an email open rate, it's too much. Cuz once you can make money, the key is to just make it fun. Because what's better than making money? Making money and having fun, right? Like >> Yeah. >> Not open rates. >> And I don't think email open rates are fun. Yeah.

>> Can we expect like more changes to the school community? Cuz that went through a complete like purge recently. So what are the changes? >> I think the map and the ambassadors and the meetups will be a part of it. I think this meme contest might become a regular thing, like a monthly meme contest. Um, merch is a cool part of the community. Like, people really like to use the thing and wear the hat and like cuz they feel like a part of it. That's something everyone should consider for their community, too. by the way, like merch is a awful business, but what it does for your business is really good. um it makes people feel a part of something and um so a bit more of that and then and maybe like a monthly call or something where we just kind of share the highlights like who won the meme contest. Um what meetups happened this month, some photos of them, what's happening next month. Oh, look at who's winning in the school games. Like oh there's these new features dropped. check out these cool groups, you know, just kind of building community. Yeah, we want to make school community fun side and school games money competition side. And I think that's what school is. It's this balance of money um competition and fun and community and culture. >> And you want you want them them like split cuz I I find it difficult as as someone that uses both communities. >> Yeah. We're going to make sure that people who join the school games don't get auto added to school community. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Cool. Yeah. Cuz it's like interesting cuz I'm like which which community should I post in? School games. Is this more relevant? And then also like where does everyone hang out? Cuz I've I know everyone on the platform that posts, but I meet people that I've never heard of before. They win the thing. I've never seen you ever do anything in those communities. >> Well, they're in their communities. like you know if you have you have your own community you have that but why don't you leverage the school game stuff or do you just consume the content that's in there or just the one days like for the people that aren't using the community it's interesting because we're a community- based platform but then you get to the community event you've never heard of the people >> well I've seen something I've seen something from a few people like I've seen I saw your funny video that you had a chance to make >> um and I've yeah I've seen some things from some evil. >> Yeah, I would say like for me like I don't interact a lot. Uh like I'm so busy because I don't have a team and I haven't scaled correctly that like that is my last like thought in the day is like go where I'm not making money cuz I'm like more of like a money person, not a fun person. Like that's what I enjoy doing. I lock myself in a closet with no windows and I work all day. >> It's true. Honestly, the money people do no fun [ __ ] most of the time. Yeah. >> Which is why you need to have a different kind of game for fun. Like memeing a whole new group of people come out of the woodwork. >> Yeah, that was really cool to see. >> Yeah. And you can do both. I think that's the key to have a balance. I think that's really important. >> Yeah, definitely. I mean, cuz I noticed that when when it was getting crazy, there was a lot of people just having fun that weren't doing anything. Their groups never changed. And I I was started to check like they'd post one week, they're doing fun post doing that. Then three weeks later, I'm like, "Your group, you haven't added any extra sales. Nothing's happened, but you've posted a lot." And I had to make sure I didn't end up in that boat where I was just posting and just doing fun stuff, but increased the money side. So, I was just just interested cuz it's it's good to connect with people and and speak about it and hear everyone's story and learn, but you only kind of get that today, which is okay. It was is fine but you know which group should I post in? Who should I speak to? How should that be put together? Like what those expectations are? Is school community now going to become more fun and not >> school community is going to become pretty like a lot of fun. Yeah. Product updates fun and school games is going to be more about money competition and also some fun. Yeah.

Have you guys considered like um uh like having almost like a blog, right? Where we would be able to post on it and then take advantage of everybody's b because it would rank high in SEO, right? Everybody's posting on the main school site. So like if I were to post something about real estate here, join my group, it's not going to do as good as it all the traffic's getting sent back to school from everybody else. >> I'm really confused to So basically if there was like a if school had a main site that we could post content on and you know a basically article you know here join my school group if you're interested in learning more but if that was everybody on the main URL then we would rank really high in our independent categories >> like your group anyone can post on that's a URL that's it depends if it's public or private but if it's public that's a page of content in >> Okay. >> You talking You're talking about ranking in Google. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. So, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. You're the tech guy. Yeah. >> No. Yeah. They're talking about like public group. You're talking about like a public group. If we make a group public, it ranks where I see it. >> Yeah. Really? Well, yeah. >> But then they can view everything inside the group. >> Yeah. >> Unless except for courses, calendar events. If you >> No, courses are still available. But if you make them like level >> level one >> one two. Yeah. Um >> to lock it. >> Which just means they have to just become a member then they get access to everything. >> Public groups are interesting. They do rank really well. Um, yeah, school community is a public group. >> The only other thing that ranks like that is like Corora, right? when Reddit. >> Reddit. >> Yeah, Reddit. >> Yeah, school works just like Reddit from an SEO perspective, except the difference is there's no Well, I guess you wouldn't know, but there's no real private Reddits. They're all public. So, that's why they're all getting indexed. But a lot of groups on school are private. So, even though they could be indexed, they're not. But the public ones are. And the public ones rank really well. like we get millions of unique view like clicks a month from Google search traffic and it ranks really well. I think school domain authority is really high if you look on um similar web I think I think people under underutilize the public groups from a traffic perspective. >> Yeah SEO is an interesting thing but I mean it does have very good SEO.

Just speaking of traffic, a topic maybe like you're like the master of social media pretty much like in my eyes or whatever and probably a lot of people here. Can we talk about like your your systems and stuff about like how you crank out so much content on social media? >> Um yeah. Yeah, happy to. Yeah. Um, I think that so making content at scale, so all right, I I've I just took over my um media department just this last month. So I'm like very close to everything right now. So I probably have more in-depth and nuance of understanding at this point than probably any time in the last 5 years. So I feel very very close to it. But basically, there's this accordion effect that happens where you go more volume and then you're like, man, if like we just made our content better, we would get more views. And so then you cut down volume and increase quality. And then you go there and you're like, man, if I can keep that quality and just do like five times as much of it, I would get even more. And then you do that and you're like, man, if I could do like the best ones that and so basically, you kind of accordion your way up volume and quality like over and over and over again. So I don't think there's like a a perfect algorithm for, you know, how much is is too much or whatever. Um, so that's just like thing number one. Thing number two is that it's because of how social media works, it's so highly leveraged on quality. Like one person with an iPhone can get 100 million views on one video. And so I think I've taken um the position with my team that we're ramping down post-production and consistently doing that which is tough if you have a team because they like post-production um and be like we're not doing that. We're going to put it on the thinking side which is not with a camera and not with Adobe or whatever you know editing platform. It's all about like how do we make sure that this hook crushes. How do we make sure that this content itself is good? And I'll speak to this as as an educator not as an entertainer. I think entertainers is a a completely different game honestly. Um, but what makes educational content good is the content. It's the content. A lot of people get really obsessed with like, oh, like, you know, hormone style subtitles. Like, the subtitles are never the reason the videos did well. Like, they're not. It's because the stuff was good. Um, so that's the second thing. The third thing is I think that people wildly um misunderstand the context in which a video is being consumed. What I mean by that is the messenger often times is a larger percentage of the message than the message itself. So Elon Musk can tweet something that's absolutely, you know, like whatever crazy and will get a gazillion views because he just so happens to be the richest man in the world and has like $6 billion companies um and like one trillion dollar company. And so the context of his message is consumed there. And so I think I feel like I see a lot of um new content creators trying to appear like authorities without proof. And so like the reason that my brand was able to grow is because we had an exit. If I didn't have an exit, no one would give a [ __ ] I could I could talk about the revenue of the businesses that I had, things like that, but the thing that really drove it home was the fact that they knew a third party who was not me gave me a bunch of money and they're like, "Oh, this was legit." And so that's like the third thing. The fourth piece and all of these are leveraging that you get more you put in right if you have that background that aspirational thing that it's occurred then you will get more views from your stuff because of the things you did not on camera period especially in the authority space which is what everybody here is if you're an educator the next piece of of this from a leverage perspective is I think you need to have some like a single sort like point of truth or maybe two points of truth that you you do your like kind of creation on. And so for me, it's X is really like my home base. That's where everything that I make in all my content actually comes from X. And yeah, and so people don't know that, but it doesn't have to be X for you. Some people are like like Leila is really good at podcast. She likes podcasting. It comes kind of natural to her. She's been a big podcast consumer. And so, and oftentimes, I would imagine the platform that you consume most often is probably the platform that you might make best because you are you're in it, right? Like, you understand the nuance, you understand the culture, you understand the unspoken rules of what's cool, what's cringe, whatever. And so, for me, I understand X pretty well. And so, that's where I make my stuff. Leila understands podcast really well. But from the podcast, we can take that and make a video script from it. And then, so when she shows up, it's like, great, we're going to make a video version of this podcast. Uh, but it's already going to be in your voice because we know it's it's you, right? And then we can chop that up into shorts. And then while she's talking, the team will be like, "That was a good tweet." And so they'll write some of those things down and then she'll tweet. But that's not her natural thing. For me, it actually is backwards. It's like I have 6,000 tweets or something on my on my ex profile. Those tweets become tweet reels. Series of tweets together become prompts and longer reels. Uh, like 20 tweets on one theme becomes a brutally honest video. That's advice and that's all from the tweets. Many tweets are going to either become LinkedIn posts as long as they add an image like everything comes from there uh from that one source. And so I think you just have to figure out what your like one source is and then you can um basically chunk up or chunk down accordingly. But I think the the thing that makes it like what makes it special is that it has to be you. And like I think people can tell like everyone here has seen like the chat GPT content, right? Like you've probably seen it, right? the con the comments that are auto chat GPT they just summarize what you say as a response it's like you know like Sam said it's like I just I immediately see that and I'm like I hate you just like immediately hate this person. Um >> it really does suck. I was even thinking about using AI to detect chat GBT content and delete it because it sucks that bad. >> Yeah, it's terrible. And so, um, it's like the nuance of personality, whatever, whatever is still there. Now, maybe AI in the future will be able to replace that. Who knows? But for right now, I think you can still tell the difference. And, um, I think as close to authentic as possible is what matters. And I think a lot of people try to do the advice side without doing the just like this is where I'm at side. And expecting to be taken as the number one authority in a space without the number one outcome in that space. And I think that's honestly the biggest misconception. It's like it's better to just go like just like do [ __ ] that's really epic and then talk about that thing than to try and make epic content. It's much easier to make epic content about something that's already epic that you did. And honestly, I think that's like the TLDDR. The biggest most important thing that's missed with most people who are trying to make educational content is they don't have any proof

>> on the pre-production side. You mentioned do you guys actually like write out books and stuff or you're just >> Yeah. You show You want to show them the >> Yeah. So we So it's actually birectional. So when we make content, if we have high converting content, we will take the hooks from that content and we'll experiment that as ads. So like later today we'll film some ads. Some of the hooks that we'll use will be actually content hooks that did well and we're like, "Oh, we'll just use them for ads." Uh, and so it goes back and forth. We try an ad hook that crushes. I'll try and use it for organic. Kind of works both ways, but it depends on what pre-production is. It's pre-production is really only going to be hooks for shorts. That's kind of it. And then for longs, it's going to be, you know, a road map of what who here wants I could talk about YouTube. I just don't want to like bore you guys to death. All right. So, so when I when I took the team back over, I was like, okay, what are the things that create an awesome video? And so it's like, okay, the thumbnail, the headline, the intro, uh, the sequencing, andor road map, like those are the big things that create a really good YouTube video. None of those require a camera and none of those are done in post. And so when I looked at what the team was spending time on, almost none of that was on the things that we know make the best content. And so I was like, okay, how do I how do we reorient the time allocation and resource allocation of the team so that more of that time is spent there on those things that matter most? And so with YouTube, we would have what we'll do is if we're looking at each of those categories, it's like, okay, for packaging, we're going to look at outliers within our industry and outside of the industry. Like what is a is there a personal development video? Is there a finance video? Is there a sales video? something that has some sort of unique package or even the dating space. Doesn't really matter. That has a a headline formula. We're like, "Ooh, that's kind of interesting. We could do that, but we could apply it to sales or we could apply it to marketing or whatever it is." And so, it's like, okay, that's that's our packaging concept that we already know is an outlier, but we're going to make it we're going to make that package work for what we're doing. That's the headline and thumbnail. the actual sequence of the video. Um, the first, you know, really like 10 seconds, we try and confirm the thumb as fast as possible so that people know that whatever they clicked on is exactly what they're going to get. You're looking for congruence and you want that both visually and like auditory whatever whatever you're saying, right? So, it's both sides like what do they visually see and what do they hear? Then, as quickly as possible, you get into road map. So, it's proof, promise, plan. That's what the intro is. So, what's the proof? Why should I listen to you? Promise. What are you going to get from this video? and plan how you're gonna get it. And so that's the road map. So once you have the road map, what we try to do is put the most interesting point or the most controversial point that might be unexpected as the first point in the video. And sometimes when we go through it, it's like actually 7's the most interesting. And so we'll put that right at the front and that's the first thing we're going to talk about. And then people are like, "Oo, this is actually a pretty interesting video." Because what a lot of people will do is they'll just take a chat GPT outline and then just say that into the camera. And if I were to just guess seven things that are important for making content, and I can guess what the seven are in your video, I'm going to hate your video. Realistically, I'm just going to listen to the first point and be like, "That's obvious. I'll bet you the rest of this video is obvious, too, and I'm just not going to watch it." And so, it's like how and that's where like the the nuance. It's like the one level underneath where if you actually do stuff on a regular basis, you'll have things that ChatGpt won't because Chappie GBT doesn't actually make YouTube videos. summarizes stuff from all over the internet and then regurgitates it. And so like for us, I know that like when I tweet, I try and tweet things that I think people would be angry at themselves for. And those tweets do better. Like there are some tweets that I do just as mental reminders because I think it'll be interesting for the team to pull from when they when they search a subject. And so I kind of like two types of tweets. Like one type of tweets is like kind of like just for me, like notes for later. And I'll try to be sure to make like make sure that I put words in it that when I search for a key term, it'll pull up. And so if we want to make a video on hard work, we make a video on focus, we want to make a video on friendship, we want to make a video on partnership, that that tweet is going to come up. And that's more like this is an idea bubble that I can make sure that I hit in a video or a short. If I have a uh I'll call like a hammer, which is just like a tweet that's meant to just like murder. Those ones are super packaged for like rhetoric of like it's going to have some sort of like if it doesn't work in a decade, it'll, you know, don't do it for a day. Like has some sort of repetition or iteration. It has some sort of swap in terms of how the language works, some sort of big and then small, some sort of contrast. And those are the those are the types of tweets like apparent apparent conflicts that in my for my audience make them think [ __ ] I should do that or like I like make them hate themselves. That's what I'm really trying to go for. U those are the ones that outperform. That's kind of like that's how I think about um my base creation. And so I think everyone has to just have a way to base create and then you just build out from there. So Leila goes podcast out. I go tweets up. So if you're lucky enough that you just love making videos, then like video is the easiest one because you can just transcribe it. You can cut it out. Like it's already there. But me natively, I like writing. And so I'm a writer first. That's why I write books. Like I like I like written word. But that's at least for me like the quote content system. And then beyond that, it's honestly just scaling output um for the team is finding people who are really obsessed with the platform. like act like this is a lesson that we've learned is like I don't want to take people who are editors and try and teach them Tik Tok. I want people who are obsessed with Tik Tok and like business content or like real estate or whatever you know whatever your niche is. If you're if the people who are going to help you out with this aren't already consuming your content, I don't think it's a good idea because they're already they're not going to know what's what's cool. They're not going to know what's like in right now. They're not going to know what trends are happening and you're just going to look like an old dude on TikTok. Does that help? >> The sequence part you said. So I got proof, promise, plan. Then you said sequence. It's like confirm in the first 10 seconds. Mhm. >> After that, do you do like >> No, the sequence is the rest of it. That's like these are the eight points. We won't show all eight points. I'll show that I have eight and I'll show the first one. And then it's like there's an open loop. And so the idea is hook, retain, reward is kind of the three steps of every video, which also applies to shorts, by the way. You just only do it once. In a YouTube video, you'll do it over and over and over again. And sometimes the hook retain rewards overlap. So you have multiple open loops of a large story loop, smaller loops that are continuing and kind of interwoven. Uh which is why if you've ever watched I'm sure you've watched a TV series at some point in your life. If you've realized the end of a series, it's like it's like halfway through the last episode they the climax and then it resolves, but then the last like half of the last episode they just open another loop, right? Right? And so it's like kind of think about the same way within the YouTube video except the YouTube video you would just end it like at the exact moment that it finishes because the moment you indicate that the video is about to be done, people leave and then it kills watch time. But yeah, in terms of the actual sequence of the video, it's like if you like you're either going to do lists, steps, or stories. Like there's that like the basis of every piece of content is a list, a step or a story. It's what it is. So it's you're just making some sort of statement. You're doing statements in a row. you're doing in a row that have to be in a specific order which is steps, right? Or you're telling some sort of narrative leads. >> This isn't leads. Yeah. I mean, it took me a while to figure out. I was like, what is content? I was like, usually people, you make lists, you make steps, you make stories. Like, you look at all pieces of content. That's usually what it is. Like, I did this thing or let me tell you about this thing that happened. Yeah. And so, that's that's the that's nature of it. And those can be interwoven. So, like if I have six lessons on sales or something, I'll I'll usually have a tweetish statement that has like nice it sounds nice. It's a little it's easy on the ears, but that's not that's not content. That just like opens the opens the conversation. Then it's like boom, let me tell you this story or example that makes this relevant. Then here's three steps to make that actionable. Great. Next list thing. So, it's I'll have list steps and stories that are all interwoven into into the piece of content overall.

Is there anything you've seen that you've done that has drastically helped like average view duration? Like obviously entertainment content for example, Mr. Beast great example like very heavy and aggressive at the start like watch till the end for this big bang explosion. Can't really do that as much I guess in education. >> Yeah, I think it's so the whole like wait for the end and also like asking people like hey please subscribe. Like I don't we've never asked for people to subscribe. I just don't think people people are like oh I'll wait for the end now since he said that. Like just like you just don't give a [ __ ] I think you'll wait for the end if you want to wait for the end because there's so like what Mr. Beast does really well is he has escalating stakes and so stakes are more difficult to make happen in educational videos than entertainment videos. Um, it's actually something that we're working on like how can we incorporate more stakes. I would say that's probably a weak point of our long form content. And so, um, like news for example, like almost a a lot of educators make edgreen stuff, they keep building and then they like don't know what to talk about anymore. So, they just basically start becoming a news reporter. Like, I'm sure you've seen this on a ton of channels. They just start reporting the news. And, uh, I think that actually destroys a channel long term, my uh, and so I would rather remix and contextualize the old the timeless lessons to a current state rather than just talking head about something that's happening. What horosi content do you guys consume the most? I'm curious. >> The long form YouTube. >> Yeah, I get a lot of frozi school games as on Instagram. >> So, so yeah, to piggyback on same thing actually out of curiosity, random question. Who here's read the my book or either of my books. Interesting. Yeah, I have this theory. Yeah, I'm going to be going I mean this is maybe this is Robin Freed, but I'm going to be pushing my book really hard next year. >> Me, Rexel? >> Well, that too. But my existing books. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like harder than ever. Just like >> Yeah. I'm gonna push the books. That's going to be the pretty There's new school on the books. >> What was your What was your in-person metric of like, oh, hey, have you got did you know I had a book? You had that thing about you met people and they're like, I didn't even know you had a book. >> Yeah. >> Can you try and increase that statistic? Is that the goal? >> Yeah. Basically, if you've read the book or one of the books, it's it's like a like you're in my world. And so that's like it's I mean to be fair it's it's the single best piece of content that I've ever made is each of the books because I've spent there's no YouTube video I spent 2,000 hours on. I spent 2,000 hours on each book. Like a long long long a ridiculous amount of time to do it and the next book's going to be even better the other two. Um more so it just adds to the other two that makes the other two more useful. Um, but yeah, it's I think I think what what the amount of work it takes to make good content, I think is the big mis misconception is that it it takes a tremendous amount of time to make really good content. And so there was a big lift that happened I want to say like two years ago. Like all my videos were doing like 10,000 20,000 you know views per video. And then Michael came in. I don't know if Michael's here but anyways Michael came in and we because the my old way of doing videos was I would turn on the camera and I would just like talk about whatever was on my mind. So I basically just I was basically podcasting on video which is how how I started making content to begin with was all podcast stuff. But when he came in, he was like, "Hey, what if we like looked at packaging that works really well and what if we like had an intro that was like clear about what this video is going to be about and we actually like had some order." And so all of a sudden it was like, "Oh, we're going to take like a few hours to prepare uh, you know, this video." And then all of a sudden, you know, the average view went from, you know, 10 or 20,000 to like 100,000. And then from there it was like, "Okay, how can we make sure that the stuff inside the videos also pretested?" And so that's where X became a super like a super platform for me because I'll take the most tested concepts from X which I can test on a regular basis five times a day and then at the end of the week if I've tweeted 35 times or 40 times I know the six you know highest performing concepts and I can lop those together so that they together make like everything is already like pre-ested in a way to be something that I know the audience will find valuable and interesting. potentially using X as an incubator for >> Yeah, 100%. X has been has been my like source of truth for how I how I do everything.

>> Um, in terms of content, have you u some segmenting the format like like if I'm a chef and I make how to cook videos? Yeah. >> The videos where I'm doing like the ASMR chop chop chop >> is a separate page than when I'm like talking to the camera. >> It's like on YouTube. Oh, well I guess this would be more Instagram page segment. >> Oh, I don't think so. Like on two different pages. >> Yeah. >> No, I would put everything on one page. >> I think that's a new trend. >> Oh, I I I don't I would definitely keep personally I wouldn't want to manage two two profiles, >> right? That algorithms would prefer if you segment your topic. >> I think it's I think they look at content pieces piece by piece independently. Honestly, that like the whole Tik Tokification of the algorithm like I think has divorced page from content like almost entirely. Instagram still has a little bit more of the and they I don't know if you saw Miss Aries recent post. He's the uh CEO of Instagram. He just posted this like this week. They're actually shifting Instagram a little bit swinging it back more to the old way. So reels are getting more of your existing audience to see it and less new audience. So they're trying to find like that sweet spot of how much should they push to explore versus the people who already know who you are. So I actually see that as a good thing.

>> I'm curious to do like a decision making pro process of view. In one of your vlogs you mentioned that you were choosing between two billion dollar opportunities. >> Yeah. >> Which one obviously was school >> and I'm not sure if you are able to disclose the other one but I'm more curious about why did you Yeah. How did that decision making process go for you? >> Well I mean you know which one I picked so I can talk about that. um which is that I thought I just went down to the product because like on the longest time horizon the best product wins. It's not about first mover like look at MySpace versus Facebook like it's just like this is the piece that's tough for everyone who's coming in to like really get and I think it's like it's it's easy to hear the words hard to like internalize is that in the beginning you don't know how to make money and so you have no idea what to do and so finally you learn how to advertise in some way. you start figuring out outreach, you figure out content, you figure out paid ads, you figure out affiliates, you figure out something and you start making money. And the difficult part is that that I think I was talking to somebody about lunch is that like if you if the actual business model itself is not like doesn't have any kind of compounding in in any way. It's like it's some it just becomes a media business. It's just like you just have to do more on the front end and every month you have to resell to make your nut, right? And so then all of a sudden you're like, man, I've been doing this for years, right? And I I don't have anything that's kind of I have nothing to show for it. It's just whatever I sold last month, that's how I eat. And so the thing that gives you the most leverage is that like how businesses get really big is that they sell customers over a long period of time and they don't lose them. Like you can only sell so many customers every year, but typically uh but every year if you keep them, it's like it just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And that's the leverage that a great product gives. Now, if a product's like exceptional, then it also brings more customers in and of itself because of word of mouth and because of viral loops and things like that. And so, um, it was a higher leverage decision. Like the the highest leverage decision I could make was find the best product that I thought fit the best with my audience and my skill set and my background. And so, school was about education and media. And that's something that I felt really, really good about.

I was like, "I feel pretty uniquely qualified," and it's about there's obviously there's the money-making component, which I feel very, you know, comfortable in. And so, it's very much a space that I understand. And so I felt like this was the right, the right thing.

On the same content about personal branding. So you've, I think you mentioned before, you didn't want to do personal brand for a long time, and then finally you were like, "I need to do a personal brand." So, what, you touch on that again real quick, like, what, why, why you did that?

I mean, there are, there are cons to it for sure, and I was aware of the cons getting into it, and it just felt like it was worth the trade. But it very much was like, I've been in the middle of the path. Like, I've never, like, I haven't been somebody who's like, "Man, I really love attention." Like, that's not really my thing. But I do, when I took the year off after the sale, I was like, "I really, I mean, I'll tell you how this basically got derived," which was I immediately was like, "Okay, I don't need to make more money again anymore. Okay, what do I want to do?" And then I was like, "I'm going to do a charity and make that be my whole thing." And then the more I read about charities, the more I was like, "These aren't really sustainable. They're not like all stakeholders don't benefit. You have to keep begging for money." I was like, "Well, that doesn't work."

And so I read John Mackey's Conscious Capitalism, which is basically a book that, um, states that like, in order for something to be a, a force of good, it has to benefit all stakeholders. So employees are a stakeholder, customers are a stakeholder, uh, the owner is a stakeholder, the environment is a stakeholder, the community, whatever. So these are all the stakeholders in the business or that that surround a business. And it was like, if you can have a, a net positive exchange with every stakeholder, then the wheel will continue to spin and then it can outlast. And so I was like, "Oh." So I ended up re-living just a for-profit business that does a good job. And so then I was like, "Okay, well, I do believe in like all the stuff that got me to where I am is all this alternative education stuff, like all the things I learned from the courses, the masterminds, the coaching programs, everything that I, you know, I went to." And I was like, "Well, if I just make my stuff better than everyone else's and I make it free, and I figure out a different way to monetize off of it, then I will be able to help a ton of people, and I'll also probably make a lot of money, too. And then I'll be able to pay good people to help me keep spinning that wheel." And so that was the, that was basically the, the thought process behind doing it.

And then in terms of giving up my personal freedom, um, it just, it was actually just a conversation I had with a friend of mine. He said, um, "If that's the price I have to pay to make the impact I want to have, I would do it seven days a week and twice on Sunday." And I was like, "Man, all right." So then I started making content.

Is there, is there anything that, uh, you find people often miss, uh, in your, in your books or in your content, where they're not quite reading between the lines, like maybe it relates to the money-making beliefs or some of these alternative, uh, sources of education that you've had?

Yeah, I, two, two things. So, one is, I think people believe in a lot of like hoodoo. Like there's so, there's so much stuff, um, that's like really woowoo, and I just like wholeheartedly reject, like, all of it. Um, and so I think people just ascribe all these narratives to like why they do what they do, why they are the way they are, and it's just like, "You have no idea, so why are you making it up?" And so if someone's like, "Hey, Alex, why are you so motivated?" Like, I could tell a story in response to that. There's no way that we would know that's true or not. And so it's just like, I just know that I do these things. And so then when people want to learn things, it's like, "Look at what they did, and then just do that," rather than like, "What mindset did you have to overcome?" So I think you said this earlier with the sales thing, you were like, "They have to have a mindset check." I just like, don't care at all. I would just be like, "What did you do differently?" Like, just look at the video. Like, you have a terrible mindset. I don't give a [ __ ]. Like, if you do the same stuff, then you will get the same outcome. And if you did the same stuff and you don't get the same outcome, either an outside variable changed or you didn't do the same stuff. There's some other variable that you're not seeing. That's fundamentally what it comes down to.

And that simplified a lot of education for me because there was a long period in the earlier part where I just like consumed a bunch of stuff and it felt conflicting, and I was like, "I don't understand any of this." And then I was able to translate into like, "What do I actually have to do?" And I think that's why a lot of people think that the content I have is like simple is because I only focus on what someone has to do. I don't focus on what someone has to believe. I don't focus on what someone has to become. I don't tell narratives around the the reasons. Like, if you'll notice, like as time has gone on, my explanation for why things work has gone down precipitously, and I just say, "I just know that this works." So I, I went through this, this thing here, and I was like, "These are the four things. These are the four places." Why? No idea. I just know that it works. And so it's like, I don't have some double-blind placebo test to know that. And so just literally focusing on what activities you have to do. And I think that that's, I think a lot of people just get spread all over the place because there's honestly just so much noise.

No law of attraction.

The law of attraction, you know, like.

No, I think that if you, if you think about something and then that changes your behavior, the change in behavior is what got the thing. If you need to do that, fine. But you could have just done the thing.

No, I know. I'm just saying that. Yeah. Because I see so many people online and that's all they're selling is how to think about things.

Think and Grow Rich. Yeah. I would change it to just "Do and Grow Rich," you know? But, you know, everyone's like, "I'm thinking here, man." Like, "The Secret," you know? I just, I just, that's that's that is my view of reality. That is how I see the world. And that is, I think that is it has helped me more than any, any other thing that I have done is that I just focus on what people did. What does this change about how I behave? So, so for example, I'll give you a totally different frame, but how it applies to everything. So it's like, if someone, if someone I know invites me out and I say, "I don't want to," then, uh, people were like, "I don't want to say that I don't want to go. Like, I should lie." I'm like, "Why would I lie?" Because if I say I don't want to go, then they're like, "Oh, no." But then they're not going to invite me out again. I'm like, "But I'm not going to want to go out then either." And so, so it increases the likelihood that what I want to have happen happens, which is they stop inviting me. Great. So, it's like this is a win-win. It's like I don't have to go now, and I don't have to go later. This is awesome. Like, and so it's just like, like rather than like all, like your your ego and there's all of it's like, "Dude, just think about what is going to happen and what you have to change." And like, so that's been probably a big one that I think confuses a lot of people who are starting out because they're sitting there, you know, like being like, "I'm just, I'm just [ __ ]." You know, it's like, "I'm saying my affirmations every day." It's like, like, "Well, just make a hundred calls, dude. Or like, make the content. Like, just do that."

Um, the second one is actually about offers. I think a lot of people. So I think a lot of people, there's a couple big errors that I see with people who make offers. So one is that they will make like a really weird offer. It's like it's got all these like pieces to it and these very strange guarantees, and it's just like hard to, they actually made it harder for someone to buy. They're like, "What is it?" They have to like read a paragraph to understand what the offer is. It's like, "That's that's not good." Um, it's more about like, "How elegantly can I just display this one thing that people would really want?" So it's not like, "Let me add 10 things." It's like, "Let me just say, I will drive to your house and pick you up and take you to the gym." It's like, "That's the craziest thing that I can do. Do that." Um, and I think that I think that's actually probably the core of it is people add more things to try and make the offer more valuable rather than what fewer better things matter. And they obsess way too much on scalability rather than value. And I think some of the best businesses are built on unscalable value that they just figure out how to scale. And things aren't unscalable or scalable. They're just harder to scale. It's like, if we can build cities in the middle of the ocean or in the middle of the desert, like, we can, we can add some more phone sales guys. Like, it's not like, you know, it's, you know, it's less less scalable to have like we have people. If there's a solar, solar company came out to our headquarters, has 400 door knockers. The 400 guys who are knocking doors every day to sell solar. It's like, "Well, it's not scalable." "What do you do?" "You think, you think knock on people's door?" "It's like, kind of like, kind of." And like, "Do you think you're just going to teach people off the street?" "Kind of." Uh, it's like, "Yeah, but every, every business has hair." Um, but I think people really obsess on like, "It has to be scalable before they've like, even made anything valuable." And I think that's those are probably like, from a, uh, like, "What are the, what are the mistakes that I feel people like that make a lot?" And Kirby and I are on those calls. And I feel like so many times they're like, "Man, people, people don't like my grand slam offer." Like, this is like not even a single, like, not like let alone a grand slam. This is like a bunt. Like, this is like a bunt with like a lot of things attached to it. It's like three strikes and then a whiffed bunt. This is not a grand slam offer. And so I think that's, um, that's probably the, that's probably the second really big thing that I think people misconstrue.

Super useful. Yeah.

Yeah. What might Leila say?

Uh, people don't understand people.

Yeah. And, and she'd probably have a big thing on, um, on feelings and action not needing to be correlated. I mean, her biggest, like, kind of ism right now is, you know, [ __ ] your feelings, follow the plan. And so, like, Leila's probably the most disciplined person I know. Uh, like Sam was like, "You're more militant," I think you said that yesterday. Um, Leila's like on another level. Leila had an unbroken My Fitness Pal streak for logging food for 11 years. Like, she's on a different level. Like, she's not like, she's not human. And a lot of the reason that we have what we have is because she's so good. Like, she doesn't forget things. Like, she doesn't forget them. She doesn't forget them. And like, when I say something like, "It'd be really cool if like whatever comes out of my mouth after that is like in a sauna and delegated by the time I finish talking." And so like, probably if, if I were to answer is Leila, she would say, "If you can do it in five minutes, do it now." And she's very vicious about that from an operator's perspective. Like, she just gets so, her work capacity in terms of her output is so high. So that's one.

I think the second thing is that she would say this herself, like, she comes from the anxiety side. Like, that's like her core drive is like wanting to be better and feeling like she's not good enough. Mine is just like rage. Uh, as like my core thing. Uh, and like, obviously we've like met, you know, come, come together or whatever. Uh, but for her, feeling anxiety around stuff and then thinking that because she feels anxious, it should change what she's going to do. And so it's more like, "I will feel really anxious, and I don't give a [ __ ]. I'm doing this." The same way I said, which is why [ __ ] your feelings, follow the plan, became it's so true to her because that's how she lives. And so whether she wants to go to the gym or not, whether she wants to take the calls or not, whether she wants to have hard conversations or not, she's going to have them. No matter if she throws up beforehand or not, she's going to do it. And she's just tough as [ __ ] like that. Um, and I think the, the third piece for Leila would be, um, managing the expectations and communications of a team. Like, a lot of entrepreneurs, um, get stuck because they actually don't know how to scale the internal functions of a business, uh, rather than kind of like the promotion and maybe product sales parts. Like, a lot of you guys already naturally are kind of inclined towards that stuff. But the parts that you'll struggle with is how do you orient a team in the same direction? How do you go from, you know, two sales guys to 20? How do you go from two customer service reps to 50? Like, how do you, like, how do you do those things? Um, and that skill set is not necessarily something that you have to have, but you have to find. And most entrepreneurs, and this is really tough, but as I've grown up entrepreneurially in terms of revenue and profit and all that stuff, the, the big, the single, the two single biggest change I say three, the three biggest changes I've had are my understanding of branding, uh, and how, how deeply I feel like I understand it now compared to, you know, years ago. The second is my understanding of focus, of just how incredibly important focus is, and it just like, it never ends. It's focused from the top all the way down. Every individual person has to be very focused on one thing. Otherwise, people have terrible jobs switching tasks between things. It's wildly inefficient. But that rolls up to departments, which rolls up to businesses. It's like, we have like, if there's only one big thing that we could accomplish this year, what would it be? And if we just did that one thing, could it change everything? If so, then let's put all of our resources towards hitting that.

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Alex Hormozi Mastermind October (1-Day Recordings)

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