Make Breeding Ball Pythons Great Again | Trap Talk With MJ Live

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T-minus 30 seconds. TUS 20 seconds. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, zero. Trap Talk Reptile Network, the coolest reptile network in the world. Episode 685. This is Trap Talk with Bob Buu and Big E. Top G, Billino Reptiles in the building tonight. We're talking everything ball pythons, family. Yes. About time, too. So many positive and beautiful things happening in the ball python world. And we're going to talk about it, dude, because why not, man? Ball ball pythons make the reptile world go round. We all know that. But anyways, I'm very excited. Uh, I'm your boy MJ. If this is your first time hanging out, first time listening, if you're into the reptile hobby or just getting in and ball pythons is your your your jam, well, dude, you're in for a treat. Like I said, big things popping on tonight's episode. But, uh, yeah, man. If you're enjoying tonight's um information or interviews or whatever, man, hit that like button and please hit that subscribe button and that hit that notification bell, do all those things um and select all when doing that and you'll be reminded of every podcast release out of the network seven days a week, okay? Monday through Sunday, you can get a brand new Reptile episode straight to your phone, to your television, all audio platforms. So, wherever you listen to any of these episodes, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. Major salute to all the other hosts of the episodes that go down um every day of the week.

So, man, yeah, like listen, a lot of great things to talk about tonight. Um I just want to let you guys know if you're looking for exclusive content, if you want to get more behind the scenes, early releases to stuff that I have going on here, uh come join the Trap Talk Patreon family, click the very first link in description below. Soon as you do that, you get connected to a Discord. There's an amazing Instagram group chat. Some of the best reptile keepers in the game are part of the trap family. So, trappers, you guys are my heart. I really appreciate all you guys. Um, shout out to people in the chats tonight, man. I see live chats are cracking and I love to see it, dude, because I know, like I said, the ball python game is an exciting place right now. Um, and the ones that are in it know that, right? And so, so many people in the chats, I just see who are in it. Um, I've been following a lot of you guys. I see they're in the chats. We may not speak, but I know your names. And I'm so happy you guys are here. uh because there's a lot of information that we're going to be speaking on tonight's episode with two of I feel like some of the most current relevant um ball python breeders we have in the game. You know, not not only as far as breeding side goes, but you know, overall customer service, the brand side of things, right? Because I feel like in 2025, and I said this already on a few episodes, the breeding is such the easy part. Like anyone can make a cool snake nowadays, right? And that's awesome. How do you sell it, right? How do you sell without not damaging your your projects or anything else around you? Because that's the hardest part, right? These two guys got that [ __ ] down. All right. So, and I and I want to pick their brains because at the end of the day, ball pythons changed my life. Um, not only just connecting with ball python breeders because of the podcast, but I breed ball pythons myself and I will always breed ball pythons. I feel like I feel like they will always be a part of what I do. Um, I would not be here if it wasn't for ball pythons. So, and I know that again I'm going to keep saying that the ball pythons's more of an exciting place than ever right now. So, uh, but listen again, shout out to people in the chats. Please, if you think tonight's episode's worthy of any super chat, more importantly, because if you have a question or something that you don't want me to miss, something you want to ask Bob or Big E, then drop a super chat. I don't care how much, just drop a super chat. We'll cover whatever topic, whatever questions. And don't be don't be scared, dude. Like, if you if you have something challenging you want to ask in the chats, please do. I welcome all questions tonight because I kind of want to get everything out there, right? Um, and I will kind of play devil's advocate because I know in in the real world of what we do, not everyone has the same experience. Um, it's unfortunate, you know, some people didn't meet the right people in the beginning or just didn't make the right decisions. And it's okay because failures is a part of what we do. But it's all good, man. If you have a question, if you got something that you need to get off your chest and you're in the chats, please do not hold back. Give us that question because again, you have two guys who I feel like could really give you the answer to whatever it is that you might have. All right, so again, appreciate everyone who's tapped in. I'm looking forward to tonight. I want to get to tonight's sponsors. One of them being Prague Morphs out there in Europe. Devon and Terza killing it, man. If you are looking for top end, top tier projects in the Ball Python game, please check out Prague Morphs on on Instagram and if you please head over to their website as well, find all links in description below. um doing great great things over there in Prague and just killing it in the Europe game. So, thank you so much Devin and Terza over at Prague Morris. Also, tonight's episode is brought to you by Clutch, number one ball python organization app in the game. If especially if you're just coming into this and you plan on building a collection, do it organized and do it the right way. Do it cutting edge with Clutch because it just makes you look like you know what you're doing out there when you are organized. I can tell you that right now. And it separates you from a lot of others who aren't so organized. So, shout out to Clutch. Shout out to Sebastian. Um, shout out to uh Justin, the entire Clutch team. You guys are just doing big things and more releases, more announcements coming from Clutch, so be ready. So again, thank you. So check them out on um Instagram. You can find the link in the description below. Um and yeah, listen, I don't really want to waste too much time. Um you know, got got to take care of my business. Got to keep the lights on and uh but I'm ready to go, dude. Like I am so excited for tonight's episode and I'm tired of telling you how excited I am because it's it's Dude, what you going to do? Okay, when Bob Doo and Big E goes wild on you if you are semi excited about the ball python game, don't know if you want to be excited. This episode's going to make you excited. Big things popping. Episode 685 coming at you. Do what you got to do to get your mind right. Do what you got to do to stay hydrated. This is Big E Bob Vu. Trap Talking with MJ. Let's go. Good.

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>> Yes.

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>> Exclusively.

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>> Spot the love it or not. I'm hot from the spot. Get the pop when I come up the spot. Get the club when I come up the spot. Get the club when I come up the spot. Get the club. When I come up, everybody, we do it. Everybody, we do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Get the club when I come up. Spot. Get the club when I come up with the club spot. Get the club when I come up. Get the

>> And we're live episode 685. Welcome back, Bob Vu. And we already know Big E, Top G. But first time having you two on a show together.

>> What's up?

>> What's up? What's up? I have to be on with you, bro.

>> Hey, you're lagging, dude. Hey, you got to get out. Jump out. Come right back in. You're lagging.

>> Okay.

>> Video quality looks like [ __ ]

>> He's not a rookie, dude. I swear he has his own episode on Mondays. That's normally not an issue. I think he's just he maybe has the jitters you being on the show with him tonight. Who knows?

>> Yeah, he's he's like same video quality as Dave Levenson.

>> Oh my god. By the way, uh here, let's see how this quality looks now. There he is. That's better. All right.

>> There we go.

>> There we go. Okay. Biggie. Bob. Bob. Biggie. You guys have you guys met in person before?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I met him um we did a show together in um West Palm Beach last year.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um we haven't spoken much, but I have to say you're a massive inspiration, bro. Everything you've done and uh I'm gonna say it out loud and proud.

>> I appreciate you.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And Bob, I was gonna I guess we could start off with that because, you know, I don't know, man. You can't really teach people to be in inspired by others. Like, you're either inspired by other people's work or you're not. I came in and one of the first people that I was looking up at was definitely you. Um, just mainly your brand, right? I feel like you've always branded yourself to where, you know, regardless of what you know about the reptile game, you're going to know who Babu is because the way you put yourself in the game. But then also as good as you branded yourself, your projects were right there with it. Like you had the you had the amazing front four projects, but then you had the branding to go with it. And that always inspired me because I don't know like I know I've um, you know having this EP having my own network and stuff gets me closer to a lot people like what what you're doing. But you've been an inspiration to me since day one like since I've even looked into like what these bigger guys are doing. You were one of those first group of bigger guys and you've lived up to that name, dude. just and and you're only continuing to grow which again super inspiring. So I

>> appreciate that. I feel like um a lot of the people that started out with me or like alongside me and it sucks sometimes to like look back and

>> you know look back through either your Facebook memories or whatever or pictures and then half those vendors aren't aren't around anymore you know but that's the natural progression of um the industry because if everybody made it and everybody stayed in there wouldn't really be much room for the new guys to come in would there I mean if Ralph Davis is still out here vending shows or um you know whatever there wouldn't be room for any of the new guys to vend any of these shows. So the the natural progression of it. Guys do have to get out. Um guys retire or quit for their own reasons. And anytime that that happens it seems like it stirs up the um the ball python or reptile haters a lot. right? They're like, "Oh, people are quitting the industry." And we're like, "That just naturally happens to, you know, um in any industry really because if you uh" and that's what I wanted to kind of address a little bit tonight, you know, with the as much again, we talked about how much positivity we wanted to talk about today, but it's hard to talk about the positivity of the industry without a little bit addressing all the negativity that's going on, too. You know,

>> right?

>> There's a lot of positive stuff. I feel like this year's market has been way u um I don't know um how's it been for for you guys? How do you feel the market's been this year?

>> Well well hold on before we get into that market talk let's kind of look about where the negativity is coming from.

>> Um is it coming from people who are actually in the markets? Like is it coming from people who are actually currently breeding selling animals successfully in the markets? It's not. That's not coming from those people because they're too busy working. You know what I mean? Um, and Bob and and Milo Milo has been in this 20 plus years. How many relationships that unfortunately didn't work out because of your growth. It's not personal. I'm just I can't stop growing and for whatever reason, life circumstances happen, right? And I get it. Like, it's unfortunate. You got to get out and that's part of life, dude. But I feel like with right now the way social media was, it kept it got a bunch of people in here. it's not working out for them, but they're still hanging around and they got they got a voice in the comment section. They want to speak up because they're salty, dude. They're not happy that there are people still doing good and they're over there just checking out or mentally checked out or just not having fun. I'm just saying like Bob, there's a time and a place where you got to realize this person is just not good to be around because of the the energy, the whole you're sucking me dry of like I don't feel good about myself. And what's crazy is this whole demographic of negativity comes from people don't feel good about themselves and they're not happy about anything. So it's like dude why is it our why is that our fault who and and people who are excited to be a part of this. So

>> yeah the negativity it comes from either people who didn't make it in the industry or the industry failed them or they feel like they got scammed or something. But here let me let me throw out these numbers real quick. Okay.

>> Sure. Sure. So let's say 20 to 25% of businesses uh or wouldn't have survived the first year. 50% of businesses don't survive the first five years and 70% of businesses don't survive the first 10 years. That's not reptile businesses. That's all businesses in the US in general. So, you're talking about a pretty um in my opinion 25% closing the first year is pretty high rate considering someone opening a new business, let's say a restaurant or or something like that, and then shutting down within the first year. It's a really high percent, one out of four. Um, in the reptile industry, we have to expect about the same thing, you know, and if you look up the key factors that cause businesses to fail, right, there's four main factors. Cash flow, which is you're spending more money than you're making, which a lot of reptile guys tend to do because you go in, everything's shiny. It's your first year, man. Everything's shiny. Everyone's trying to sell you stuff.

>> Um, poor management, which is on you. Once again, it's on you. Cash flow, poor management is on you. Poor management of your time, poor management of your resources.

>> Um, lack of demand. So, we know one thing, there is a demand for ball pythons because if there wasn't, all of us wouldn't be breeding them. um guys like Justin or myself or whoever wouldn't be, you know, making really good money doing this. And uh the last reason is competition. There is a lot of competition in our industry. And that what that does is it kind of uh forces you to up your game. Obviously, the guys that don't won't survive. The guys that don't keep upgrading their inventory. The guys that don't upgrade their displays, you've been using the same displays for 15 freaking years. Yeah, you're not going to outsell me. It's just not going to happen. You know, you're still using the same raggedy lights you used from 15 years ago is yellow. Um, you're still you, you know, it's stuff like that, man. I've seen displays that literally uh should belongs to a swap meet. You don't need to be at any type of expo selling animals. You know, it's a swap meat type display. And again, those are um I mean, with those numbers alone, you you see why people are failing.

>> Yeah. You know, and what's crazy is I don't know, one thing that I paid attention to, Bob and Alio, when I first got in is I noticed like, man, there's so some people who do it like I was talking about how you do it, Bob, the way you put yourself out. And in 2017, there was a lot of laziness, dude. And there still is a lot of laziness, but I feel like some people have no choice but to upgrade their [ __ ] because you're going to look really bad at these shows if you let this [ __ ] come with all this brand new stuff and you're just with deli cups. people are almost forced to have to like up their [ __ ] up, which is good. I feel like that's kind of what this hobby needed. But if we take things back to 2017, laziness was like almost like that's was almost the realm of the reptile hobby. There was I hate to say a lot of slobs, dude, but if we go back years and years and years, the demographic of human working with reptiles is kind of like lower and lower if we really think about it. So, it's only got it's only gotten better and better and better as the year's gone along because you know you know evolution and better people wanting to come in and you know do better by the animals.

>> But also 20 years ago, you don't have to market uh you're the only guy selling pinstripes. You don't have to have you don't have to market anything.

>> You were the first one to sell uh you know, banana clowns or bananas even tell uh you you you know, know Brock Wagner, you know well enough. Yeah. He didn't have to market bananas. He's the only person with bananas at the time and they're 25 $30,000 a piece and people are beating the door down to buy them because he was the only one with bananas. But Brock, I have to give him credit too because over the last 20 years he's had to evolve. He's got to do new displays, new banners, become a salesman. He don't just expect people to call him to buy stuff,

>> you know. And um all the guys that do survive the industry over 10, 20, 30 years. Um, again, Justin, I I I know we look at him, he's young or whatever, but he's been in this industry a long time. He he's had to evolve over the years of of um his show, vending shows or his his online presence and all of that. So, you know, a lot of times people are just like, "Oh, these guys got real lucky or they're, you know, whatever reason they have to give for these guys being successful other than, oh, these guys just outworked us." You know, end of the day, a lot of these guys, you're getting outworked.

>> Yeah. But but what's crazy is the stigma of like you can't be as successful as Bob Vu. You can't be as successful as Alio or Justin because all they're going to do is make triple quadruple off of you. And that's the whole point is them to make money off of you to the point where you can't make nothing back. You know, like that's almost like the stigma that the bigger breeders have right now because of the narrative that's being pushed by people who again who aren't even breeding or it just didn't work out for them, you know? And if you spent a ton of money um during COVID, which I did, um without a plan, then yes, it definitely feels that way, right? If you came in and dropped $30,000 or $20,000 on a DG clown and then this year you're sell watching people sell them for a,000 bucks. It sucks. Of course, it sucks. And uh was I a part of that? Yeah, I sold I when I was selling DG clowns, they're about 12,000. They were 125. And um so watching these guys again, my fir the my first customer that bought a DG clown for me at 125 made money. I a lot of people know I was at I was in Tinley when I bought the DGA and the clown. I paid $50,000 for that snake and I made money off of that snake the first year, but that's going into an investment with a plan. When I bought that male, I already had a fleet of females lined up to breed, you know, and so it's not like I'm like, "Oh man, I hope he breeds this one female and I make all my money back." No, I had 10 girls that were basically slotted for him. Whichever female develops first, that's the first female he breeds and I was going to make my money back in the first clutch. And I already knew that. But a lot of these guys that feel like the industry duped them or whatever, realistically, I I'll be honest right now, blame your mentor. Whoever is that person that you lean on the most, that first person that got you in, and if you don't have one, find one. um that person pretty much determines a lot of your trajectory on on on how you're going to do because all of your advice, sure, whatever you can get online, but when you know when [ __ ] hits the fan and you're having a really [ __ ] day and you go out there and your rat room overheated and half of it died and you want to quit and sell off and, you know, make bad financial decisions and go buy a pair of scaleless heads for $30,000 or stuff like that, It's it's that guy, the guy that you call and ask for advice. Um, if that guy sucks, um, it could ruin you. And I've been lucky that I've had really great mentors through most of the time I've I've been breeding snakes. Uh, Albby Schaw being one of them. Uh, you know, when I first that was the first guy that sold me a mutation of a reptile. It was a Max No leopard gecko. U, you know, Frank, uh, everyone knows him as Frank Monroe here in Georgia. Uh, I asked him a lot of genetics questions when I first started out, you know, and I have a very good group of friends that I I lean on for advice. And if you don't have that, you should try to find that. That's a great thing about this industry, too. It's very easy to find people to help you and give you advice. Uh, people give you advice. It's it's hard to find people to give you honest and good advice.

>> But can we flip this thing real quick? Because let's think about the people who do what like let's think about the norm. I you go to all big breeders and you ask for advice and you get good straightforward advice. You could still [ __ ] that up. Like and and that's what that's the thing like I I'm sure Bob and Aio there's been plenty of people you've spent people on time on the phone with either customers or whatever and it just didn't work out for them. You know what I mean? Like and so not even getting the best advice you can get even guarantees your [ __ ] longevity in this game. Like it it has to come with your heart. Like, and I hate to sound corny with it, but if you really don't want to really keep ball pythons, dude, anything could almost rock you out of this game because where's your where's your real where's your real connection?

>> There's not enough advice that will help you on a Saturday go clean rat tubs, man.

>> The advice, it's just Thursday nights. Oh, Milo, you had a Today was a mice day, wasn't it? It was

>> It was It was But knowing that I was gonna come on the podcast and the day I had yesterday,

>> uh, I decided to get help, you know, have

>> Yeah, shout out to Posa.

>> It was easy.

>> But yeah, you need a combination of things.

>> Uh, you need uh the right approach.

>> You need some luck. Hell of passion and love for this [ __ ]

>> Yeah. Big time. you know, and and some type of, you know, you you need a little bit of a business acumen as well. And if you don't have it, you should go try and and get someone to help you with that or I don't know, just uh sometimes I'd say even read a book, take a course.

>> Oh man. But isn't that like all available at your fingertips? You know, when people are like, "Oh, because you have all this business experience." Like I don't I don't know anything about it's not like I ran businesses before

>> but it's all on YouTube.

>> Yeah.

>> Watching a lot of you videos about investments and and all this other things and taxes and all this stuff. It's all on YouTube.

>> I don't just naturally know this stuff. And now like at the end of the day, you don't look at um this industry and go, "Wow, man, Justin really made it far in this industry because he's so special or because he's nothing separates us, me, Justin, from anyone starting out that makes us any more special because we we breed ball pythons, dude. We throw two snakes together that we think are going to look good. Sometimes it the results suck and then one out of 10 we get really good results and we lean on that and we build up on that project but nothing really makes us truly more special than anybody else in this, right? Uh we just throw two snakes together, man. And and we have some of it luck, a lot of hard work and um and and honestly just a passion to keep going because man, there's been some [ __ ] days. I hatched a desert ghost aanthic pi the other day and his tail was flipped backwards like this and kind of like in a pretzel shape and uh man stuff like that when you're working on a project for five years um and and hatch a really crappy animal like that it sucks. Um somehow the animal's thriving it's already had three meals um but then this week I hatched a perfectly good-looking one, you know, um out of a different clutch. So yeah, and to get past some of these like really shitty situations, and we've all had it. You breed animals long enough, you're going to had you're going to have slugs, you're going to have um girls die from, you know, any reason, man. You can have a perfectly healthy animal. You open that tub the very next day, it just ate last week and it just rolled. You know, we we deal with live animals. It happens, man. and and you have enough of the passion to do it, you'll stick around. Um, even when the money's bad. You know, there's been years where the money's bad. This industry has roller coaster. You know, Ailio, you've been in this long enough. You've seen

>> five different waves of people saying the market has crashed. This market has crashed so many freaking times since I've uh since I've gotten in in 2007. So,

>> let me let me say this. And yes, there's been like five iterations of the market, right? or if that's the right word. The people that lead the charge against the market haven't been in. They they were in the first one.

>> They have no [ __ ] idea of what any of this is anymore. That is the main frustration I have. Mhm.

>> And the other is that a lot of people out there forget that Justin, yourself, myself, MJ, we all started exactly like them. Exactly like them. 100%. So, I feel like that's important to remind people that you can do whatever you want. You just have to put the work in, you know, and [ __ ] has to fall into place for you.

>> It's hard to, Ameilio. It's hard to look back like into a mirror and be like, I didn't make it because of me.

>> Yeah.

>> It's so hard to It's so hard to like blame yourself, right? Like when I have to look in myself in the mirror and go, "Man, I don't have a six-pack this year because I didn't put in any work, you know?" Um, you know, pounding tortillas all all summer might not be a good idea, you know,

>> and it's hard to look into the mirror and admit that. Sometimes it's easier to look into the mirror and go, man, maybe my test is low. I just need to get on some tests or maybe my, you know, Mary so [ __ ] much. You know, you can blame anything, you know, and and for them, for these people who absolutely hate our industry or hate ball pythons overall, it's easy to just be like, "These breeders scammed me by selling me this snake. These bre, you know, or or whatever the reason is." Uh, whatever their excuse is for their failures, um, it's easier to just blame someone else. It's definitely not as much fun to blame yourself.

>> Yeah. I mean,

>> personal personal responsibility is across the board the probably the biggest problem we have as people

>> and and and and it's difficult for people like yourself, uh, Bob and Alio, and even me, like when we hit [ __ ] that we're shooting for, right? Like we think about the ups and downs when we're at our peak and we're at our high hitting what we're getting, like we can't relate to like what these people are talking about, the negativity. It's hard to it's like, dude, like like yeah, it doesn't come easy, right? And and maybe we don't always celebrate the losses because some of the losses are hard to deal with and we [ __ ] want to keep it to ourselves, but godamn we shoot for that [ __ ] high every time when we open up the [ __ ] egg box and we see what the And I'm sorry, dude, but that's

>> Dude, it's hard to explain that feeling. Am I right, guys? Especially you, Bob. Like the [ __ ] that you've hitten before, like that's like hello. Like it and and I don't know what to say about people who haven't had that feeling. Like, you know, I I don't

>> a lot of times they quit before they even get a chance to get that feeling. A lot of these guys quit on the second year, third year. I always tell people second, third, and maybe fourth year, the the probably the most dangerous years for a new breeder because year one is exciting,

>> right? Everything's exciting. Oh, I can't wait until I can't wait until these girls get up to size. I'm going to breed them. Blah blah blah blah. Year two, some of the excitement is fading a little bit, right? Year three is probably the absolute worst. you're hatching babies, but um it's sales are tough, right? Sales are tough for everybody. I'll just throw that out there. It's not like it's not like an easy walk in the park for me, for me, you know, it's not like I'm just like posting, boom, instantly sold. We still have to put in work. I still got to go call guys from Japan. I still got to call guys here and there to to get animals moved. Especially if you're hatching a 10K animal, it doesn't sell itself. Um you know, you have a list of clients that are interested in specific projects. So I called them and I was like, "Hey, this hatched or whatever." But that year three and year four for for people, those are the toughest years, man. Year three and year four for the for those of you breeding year three and year four, um those are going to be your toughest years because you're finally starting to see some of these animals you raised up pairing together. Um there might be a you know, failures of of course along the way and then you're watching the price drop on an animal you're really trying to hatch, right? you you bought double heads, you're finally putting them together and you're seeing the price drop a little bit and it kind of discourages you, but uh you have to remember that when you pair um you're going to produce enough animals, you're going to make money. Um it's not it might not be as much money as you want to make. You're also remember why you started doing this. 90 I want to say 90% of us that came into this industry didn't think we're going to do this for a living. I don't think

>> I'm not

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> or whatever and you're going I'm gonna do this for a living. None of us really thought that. Um, so remember why you bought your first snakes in the first place. You just want to have fun with your kids and and breed snakes or you want to have a little side gig or or whatever. Uh, so stick to that, man. And and raise the animals and enjoy the process and learn to enjoy more than just ball pythons part of the industry, honestly.

>> Yeah. Big time.

>> And I just hold on real quick. I just want to say Mio and Bob that like respect also the like like the how deep it really takes to hit some of the stuff that you guys are trying to hit man like you really need to have the amount of space and hold back uh type of position in your life where you could invest for the future otherwise like you can't really expect to hit anything that you're really shooting for go ahead I didn't mean to cut you off

>> I I didn't want to lose this point um there is a sector of the people that have got in, especially in the past in the old days, that they didn't give a [ __ ] about the animals. It was all about the money. They do not connect.

>> They never they do not connect and they never connected

>> to the excitement that we feel and hitting a [ __ ] animal like the desert uh desert ghost exantic clown with beautiful pattern that [ __ ] bob hit. You know what I mean? So there's people aside from the value of the animal, okay? They never connected with that. They don't understand that. That's why it's so easy to attack it. Aside from the fact that they [ __ ] failed. That's that's how I feel about it. They never connected to the beauty of what we do. That's how I feel. So, the new narrative now is that like ball python guys are jumping ship and um going to different species, right? Is that the new narrative uh that you guys are getting? They're all jumping to condos and

>> maybe

>> Yeah.

>> Uh that's the natural progression of things. Okay. It's not um it's not that ball python guys are jumping ship. It's that so many new ball python breeders came into the industry in 2020 2122 that they're finally growing out of just ball pythons. I did the same thing. I got I kept ball pythons forever. I really love ball pythons. Then I got geckos. Then I got blackheaded pythons. Then I got boas. Then naturally when you go to a reptile show, something else is going to catch your eye. You go on Morph Market or you go on, you know, whatever, something's going to catch your eye. And as reptile people, we're going to be naturally a little bit interested or curious on these new species, right? Uh Will Maro is moving down to Georgia might be one of the worst things that can happen to me as a keeper because he has so many freaking species that are cool or things that he's interested in that I'm going to want. So now I'm naturally going to expand my collection and get one of these, one of these, one of these. Uh I'm I'm breeding my blackheaded pythons now. I'm I'm I'm working all kind of random projects, but because naturally I'm a reptile person. And there's a there's a huge difference between a ball python breeder and a reptile breeder at the end of the day. There are people that got into this industry only because of ball pythons. They want came in and they only want to do ball pythons, which is perfectly fine. Obviously, it's better for us. Um better for me anyways, moneywise. Um but there are reptile guys. They come in and everything interests them and now they're starting to get outside of that ball python realm and go collect the other species. And again, Conro's been very hot. I definitely think uh or I don't think I'm not making any money off of this, but uh Bill has been the champion of the green tree world, right? I think he blew it up when uh during COVID especially. And um and MJ, you've been a huge push for the condro market. Um, yeah. So, condundros are hot. So, obviously people are gonna want them. You know, you guys don't you guys remember the year where crested geckos were selling for 20 grand a piece.

>> Yeah.

>> You know,

>> what a time.

>> Yeah. So, uh, no one was saying everyone's jumping ship and buying crested geckos, but it was during COVID people were just dumping money in, you know. So,

>> yeah. Yeah. You know, but I will say though, you know, being the somebody who has been selling to ball python breeders, um it's not all of them, but some of them do have that attitude where they're pissed off that the ball python market didn't do what they thought they were going to do for them. Um it's not all of them, Bob, but there is a couple out there who think, well, ball pythons didn't work. I'm going to try condro. Um and again, if you're part of that small percentage of mentally thinking, you know, condros is going to be easier than ball pythons, dude. [ __ ] God bless, dude. Holy [ __ ]

>> A rude awakening.

>> You got another thing coming. Uh but again, dude, you're right. Majority of it, if not almost all of it, is just people progressing um into other species because they love what they keep. And and you can only get so excited keeping ball pythons. No offense. Like especially when you especially when you start off with 10 and you're like, "Okay, well that's all I could really afford on that project." You know, maybe get another species if you want to add another reptile. But getting your mind off ball pythons every now and again makes you love of the ball python even more sometimes. And so um it just also kind of gives you a break too, you know. Um but but also there's really no timeline to it either, right, Bob? Like it should happen when the right the time is right and when you feel like you actually want to keep something else.

>> I'll be honest right now like as Will is saying if ball pythons are too hard for you to breed,

>> man. There ain't much out there for you,

>> dude. for somebody who's been following. Me and Will have been friends for [ __ ] years and he he's knows all the heartaches. I've sent him pictures of [ __ ] babies fully just full term dead in the egg and he's seen a lot of my goddamn beginning years with the condos, man. And uh yeah, you know, but and just like anything else, right, ball pythons were something not everyone could breed at one point. Um it was something very difficult to lock in. Do you remember what year that was, guys? And I'm I'm sure you guys remember better than I do. Was it the 90s or early n early 90s when that was happening or late 80s

>> for what now for the condras?

>> Uh no the ball pythons remember they're not as easy to breed at one point like remember

>> yeah because also they were they didn't know to heat them. They didn't know to cycle. They were uh hell they didn't even know to sex them.

>> A lot of wild

>> Yeah. They just threw two ball pythons together and if they're fighting they know they're males, you know. They they didn't know a lot of this stuff. They didn't know how to incubate them. Um

>> Yeah. You know, and again, ball python is not like a science, you know, it's not that difficult incubate them because we know how now, but back in the day, they just kept them like corn snake eggs. They assume, oh, well, it's eggs, you know, keep like a corn snake's 80 degrees, it should hatch, and it doesn't, you know, keep it dry, it doesn't hatch, you know, stuff like that. But, um, yeah, man. If if you can't market yourself to sell ball pythons, good luck with condro. I'll tell you why is because you're going to go high buy some high-end condos. You're going to go buy, let's say, especially during COVID, you're going to go buy $5,000 condos, $3,000 condos. Finally, it's been three years, four years, you're going to breed them. And then you're going to go to a repon or some type of show and there's a guy with $400 condro on the table that he just they're wilds. Who cares? And you're going to get be like, "Wait, this mofo is selling condos next to me at $300. I bought mine for three grand and I can't sell any." Well, also marketing, lineage, paperwork, all that stuff, man. And if you can't do that in ball pythons, good luck doing it in the condro market.

>> That's why you don't see that's why you don't see like real condro breeders ever at shows because there are people who will post almost the exact same color neonates that is $400 versus 4K. So to the to the um outside person looking in just at the show, the hell are they going to spend that kind of money for, you know? Um go ahead, Amelio.

>> Bob, I had a question for you. um this new narrative that um selling 50 snakes on the low end is easier than selling a few high-end animals.

>> That [ __ ] blows my mind. There is no silver [ __ ] bullet, bro.

>> I tell my people this all the time. You have to build for everything.

>> Can you talk about that more? Like can you what do you what do you really like break that down a bit more for us, Alio? There's a new narrative being pushed out there that you should have 50 low-end animals for sale instead of having some high-end.

>> So push more lower stuff than higher.

>> That's Listen, I understand what they're trying to do, but you're that's to me that's not the right information. It's very difficult to sell 50 animals.

>> Yeah. First of all, now you got to deal with 50 customers. And we all know this based on data that the cheaper the animal, the more questions you're going to have, the more messages you're going to have. Why is it not eating because you put in 100 gallon fish tank? Um I think that narrative is trying to force or not force people, it's trying to persuade people into um breeding more low-end animals. Oh yeah, breed your pastel to your spider, breed your banana to your enti. And you know, don't go for these projects, fancymancy projects, because uh those animals are going to sit. Dude, I'd rather have a 5k animal sit in my rack for a full year before I sell it next year than 50 freaking animals sit there for six months, five months, and be competitive at a repticon and not make any money. the the I remember I think it was Miguel that posted a video that broke down how much money it cost to raise a ball python from the day it's born till the day it lays eggs. It cost the exact same amount of money to raise a $5,000 animal and a $50 animal.

>> Don't matter.

>> Still got to feed it, clean it, water it. So, why the heck would I breed two $50 animals together to make a $200 clutch when I can just

>> breed the best animal I can get I can afford reasonably or get my hands on and go for go for

The maximum value. Go for the maximum project possible. You're going to make byproduct. You breed a DG clown hetazanthic to a triple head. Whatever you're doing, you're gonna. And you again, that's what I did. I did a DG clownanthic to triple head. Of course, yes, I made a DJ as anticlown in the clutch. $30,000 snake. There was also byproduct. There was still a $1,000 snake in this clutch. There was still a, you know, a $50 snake. It was a normal in the clutch, you know, there. So, there's going to be byproduct. But if you pigeonhole yourself to breeding two $50 animals together to make a $200 animal, it makes absolutely no sense when we all know how much it costs, you know, for your personal collection, how much it costs to keep an animal on the street. You got to feed it 50 times a year, 52 times a year, whatever, you know. So, yeah, it's um it doesn't make any sense.

Um, I'm going to tell you what I think is changing the narrative. Okay? I think the white glove service thing is gone, right? So, we are now starting to advocate for the opposite. We are starting to advocate to sell $20 snakes on Palm Street.

That's what's happening. And the writing's on the wall, guys. I mean,

Well, yeah. I mean, to hold on. Exactly what Amigo just said. It's they're not happy about people like you, Bob, not supporting Palm Street. Take we're not taking your higher-end projects only because it makes sense why you said what you said. But it it's crazy how the if we really look at the whole demographic of who's kind of making ball python baiting look bad. It's the ones who are upset that they're not supporting Palm Street. Why? I don't know why they're so hellbent on everyone having should use Palm Street. I mean, I've been they've asked me to sign up for Palm Street. I did. I'm not like anti-Palm Street. I'm not, you know, I'm not on here to be like, "Oh, Palm Street's the devil and it's, you know, ruin our industry." It's not good in my opinion for, uh, ball python sales overall because of, um, you have 30 seconds to pitch to 50 or 70 people, whatever you're whoever you're talking to. That person has to make a split-second decision to buy a live animal. You know, dude, I've been to shows where I've seen the same customer at my my table for five freaking hours and they haven't made a decision on which animal they're buying. They wait till 4:00 on a Sunday to be like, "Okay, today's the day. I talked to my wife, blah, blah, blah. We're going to buy this snake." And it's could be over $300 snake. And but they again, you were buying live animals. We're not selling freaking plants that if it dies, oh well, right? You buy another plant or Pokemon cards. I buy Pokemon cards on these, um, apps all the time on these, uh, bidding apps. I buy shoes, things that I can just buy and throw on a shelf and I forget about. I forget about it. We're selling live animals. So, in my opinion, it's not a good platform. However, I'm not going to condemn anyone for using it just to get rid of animals, but I definitely do not suggest you go on there and try to auction off thousand $500 animals and sell them for pennies to the dollar. It doesn't make any sense. Um, we work too damn hard to produce these animals. Uh, hell, we work too damn hard to produce rats, you know, to, uh, to produce these animals to go on there and sell them for pennies to the dollar. It doesn't make any sense.

Let me, let me jump in here real quick. I have friends that do very well on Palm Street. I'm not a Palm Street hater, but what what these people that are hating on the market now are not telling you is that the people doing well on Palm Street have 30 species and do not sell ball pythons. Ball pythons do not do well on Palm Street.

Yeah.

That is a fact. That is I've been told that by people that [ __ ] kill it on there. Feelings aside are not a Palm Street item.

Yep.

Period. And these guys are trying their best to get it that way. It's not happening. Good luck.

Yep. Yeah. And again, I've known guys where they're like, "Oh, I go on there and I did like 3K the other day." And I'm like, "Well, how much inventory did you sell? 10K's worth of inventory." And you made 3K. You know, uh, you sold like a gajillion Blue Lucy's or whatever at $125 a piece wholesale. I guess.

And who's making all the money at this at this point? Palm Street and your ship, whatever shipping company, right? Shipping's probably making more money than the than the, uh, rep the breakers.

There you go.

It's funny how that works.

These are facts. These are facts, guys. Know the business. If you don't know the business, don't speak on it. Period. I'm just saying at the end of the day, there are people, there's certain couple companies that are unhappy with certain ball python breeders and that and they're trying to think of what can we do? We they won't ship with us. So, what can we [ __ ] do? We have to make them look bad.

I try to stay neutral, right, as as a breeder and as a show promoter and all this stuff. I'm trying to I try to stay neutral.

You do good about that, Bob, by the way. I see it. Everyone sees how you don't play parts like you're trying to

But also I've been with Morph Market since 2017.

I've been friends with Darien for coming up on five years now. We've, you know, we've become close friends and to watch Morph Market get dragged through the mud and be blamed for what's going on in the industry when realistically, first of all, it's an economic problem. It's a US economic problem. People don't have money. They don't spend nearly as much. We printed, we gave away too much money during COVID. It's just a problem. But to blame, uh, Morph Market auctions, uh, and then to say that Morph Market shipping is going to ruin the industry like how you're giving me shipping at $35. Oh yeah, that's terrible. It's going to kill my business when realistically you're saving me five grand a year in in shipping, you know, and that five grand means I can give my guys bonuses for Christmas or I can buy, you know, things for infrastructure. And for a new breeder, for a new breeder, a $35 shipping versus an $80 shipping is make or break.

Game changer.

On a sale. It's game changer on a sale,

You know. And when I the day I found out that, um, my maximum discount from another shipper was actually not the max, like not even close. And I was like, bro, what?

Dude, how how are we supposed to feel when that happens? It's kind of a slap in the face. I've been given this speech so long of like, oh, you're one of our highest volume shipper. We're giving you the maximum discount. We're making absolutely no dollars off of you.

And then to find out find out like I can get another 20% savings on top of that and then the company is still making money.

Like trust me guys, Darien ain't he's not hurting.

Okay. Ain't hurting. What you just said just happened to you with that ex company L that was supposedly Bor Market is supposed to do that right? Wasn't that the whole narrative like, oh, this is going to change, guys, this is all just a big scam for you know them to switch it up as soon as they get everyone to start shipping with them? That's false. I'm telling you, Darien's not doing this for money, dude. He's not doing this so he could [ __ ] make millions off the shipping company because other people are already doing that and he was trying to change all that. All it was and that that could make some people feel some type of way, but you know, other companies took professionally, some others not so much. So, it's unfortunate.

The the Morph Market auction thing is interesting, right? When people bring it up on why it's like, "Oh, I see ball pythons on there, uh, not getting any bids on." And I'm like, "Stop auctioning off entire clown males, maybe."

Take them to your local show and sell them for $25.

Right?

Because it's a $25, $30 snake and you want $50 shipping and you expect anyone to bid on that? Of course, you're not going to get a bid. There's an NG head clown male, dude. Like, it goes in a wholesale box, goes to a pet store, and then some kid's going to get his first ball python. It's fine to have for that to happen. You know, at the end of the day, we all know what we're doing. We're producing ball pythons, and I am very okay with me selling a snake being someone's first, uh, uh, experience with reptiles. So, you want to sell them a good animal, obviously, and them evolving into another species is okay. They don't have to become ball python breeders. Not everyone needs to become a ball python breeder, but it's like acknowledge what we do. We throw two snakes together. Um, we breed snakes, but at at the end of the day, we also have to have some business, um, make some business decisions and make, you know, smart decisions. Don't have your auction end at 3:00 a.m. Uh, I've seen that happen a hundred times. I have to set an alarm one time because it was a really good animal that I was following and it ended at 3:00 a.m. and some dude in California decides to throw on the auction at, you know, 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock their time and realize it's 3:00 a.m. on my time. And I'm like, nobody's going to bid on this [ __ ] dude. And again, that's just small conscious decisions you can make to help your business out.

That that, uh, another thing I wanted to hit on, um, that whole thing where we are all promising a [ __ ] dream. Okay, that's [ __ ].

Yeah.

That's [ __ ]. We are promising people, you know, first we're getting them, first we're getting them a pet, right? Second, if they want to go that that next route to make crazy nice animals, that's, you know, nice combos, that's where we take them. And then if they want to make cutting-edge [ __ ], this is all the customer. We help them get there.

Yeah.

That that is what I think pissed most of us off.

That we're Have you ever used these words before? Ever in a sales pitch is, "Oh, bro, it's gonna be so easy."

No, we none of us have ever, I don't think, ever uttered those words to a customer going, "Bro, it's going to be so easy. You're gonna make so much money."

Yeah.

Like literally never.

Yeah.

Right. I have to tell people all the time, this collection was built over 15 freaking years. I didn't, um, one day decide, hey, I'm just going to become a big ball python breeder and just hoard a thousand ball pythons and, you know, whatever. Do do hundreds of clutches. It's going to be taking a lot of time. It's going to take you a lot of time, a lot of effort. Um, and we don't promise like when people are like, "Oh, you're these big breeders are promising these people, you know, bunch of return." Promise. We charge them a lot of money. So, they knew it's going to be a lot of work and money to to be to get involved. You know, it's not like we're like, "Oh, man. All you got to do is give me a hundred and I'll get I'll make you a thousand." No, we we we, you know, that's just not the reality of what they're whatever they're trying to paint. This picture of this pyramid scheme we're trying to sell is, you know, and we have to they have to also acknowledge, um, let's say 80% of all ball pythons, 90% of all ball pythons sold, um, are pets or, uh, you know, they're not high-end project animals. They're like they think I sell like these $10,000, $20,000 animals every day. I don't.

No.

I sell a lot of sub $1,000 animals as really pretty pets or building blocks for other breeders. But it's never like, "Oh yeah, let me sell you this 30k animal so you can make a million bucks." It's not, uh, that's not a thing.

And can we really talk about Bob where you know, listen, depending on how [ __ ] deep you want to take your pockets into coming into this, you can hit some crazy [ __ ] in three years. You could hit the same [ __ ] Bob or Amelio's hitting in three years. But what people are doing when that happens and they try to sell it, that's where they run into a big issue, dude. Is because like, do you feel like it's too soon to put yourself in a market that you didn't grow in? Like, and what I mean by that is like, okay, in three years you hit some crazy [ __ ] but who are you? And and like, how do you expect to sell a $5,000 animal, um, on Morph Market or whatever? Or or do you feel like it doesn't matter? Will that animal still sell itself, Bob? Like, what do you think?

The animals, animals will speak for themselves. Um, I've I've bought from new, I bought a $50,000 snake from a guy I've never met. I don't even know who the hell he was at the time. I didn't know Matt for, I didn't know Windendy. Oh, Jesus Christ. I'm gonna butcher his business.

Steel City.

Steel City. Damn it. Windy City. Woody Windy City. Swan. Uh, Steel City. All these Chicago guys. Um, 50K. I don't even know the guy. Guy sent me the picture of this snake and I said, "I'll take it. Eats good. Ready to breed. Cool. I'll take it." Um, animals will speak for themselves, man. Um, building your name, yes, is very important so you can sell volume. But if you produce good animals, people will find you. People will find you and the animals will speak for themselves. The projects will speak for themselves. Um, but don't get so bogged down. I think too many people that especially came in in 2021 get so bogged down on the price tags, they forget that we're deal we're dealing with live animals and that we have to care for them daily and then it's going to become a part-time job for you. On a Friday afternoon after work and you want to go drinking with your buddies, you can't because you haven't cleaned rats yet and someone has to clean those rats and then they get neglected until Saturday, Sunday because you're hung over and then no one cleaned those rats, you know? And this this happens a lot. That's, uh, when someone asked earlier before we even started, they said, "How do you how do you get past that burnout?" Um, the burnout happens because you didn't mentally prepare yourself for this part-time job. You went from three ball pythons because it was cool and now you have 50, then you have, uh, four racks of rats, then you have to do a show next weekend and you didn't mentally prepare yourself for this, uh, slowly, gradually over time. So sometimes I'll tell people, hey, can you, um, slow it down a little bit? Like, um, I will lose a sale over this. I'll tell my my my customer, hey, you went from 0 to 60 pretty quick there, bud. Uh, maybe slow it down so you can still enjoy the process because dude, some of these breeders can't even ID pastel in their pairings because they've never hatched one.

Or or

They've never hatched a pastel, but the first animal they're going to hatch is a hypo clown, you know, so because we're so advanced now, but like, hey, the basics is important too, you know, enjoy that process. Don't go and pair 35 animals your first year and get overwhelmed and then you get burnt out, obviously, and, um, you're out. And that's one of the biggest reasons people quit because they they're not having fun anymore on a on a freaking Thursday night. They have to watch one to three random guys talk on a podcast. They think they're going to gain anything out of this. But no, all we're going to do is just [ __ ] on other people. So, you know, I'm gonna gain so many business ideas from Bob. You're you're not.

Join join the Patreon. It will pay for itself tfold. Hey, the Patreon will pay for itself tfold.

You make so much money.

Join that $5 Patreon where people are just going to talk [ __ ] and be angry and, you know, rejoice in the end. The end is coming.

You guys got Brian Gundy in here.

Uh, we have to also mention.

We also have to mention too, man, like, you know, first and foremost, not everyone starts off as serious as others. Like some people don't even know this is a whole thing at first. Like I mean I remember remember keeping ball pythons in my my early 30s in my closet before I even knew there was an actual like whole [ __ ] ball python world out there. Um, but like that seriousness grows the same way you said Bob, that it's okay to mature into other species to work with. It's the same way when you grow your ball python collection. Um, you know, you start off just having it in a tank and then you start learning a thing or two or start meeting people and then the seriousness of keeping a ball python just elevates with time. But I don't know, man. Like I think everyone is just in a different level of their own when it comes to how serious they want to take this. And maybe people don't realize how serious ball python success could change your life for the good. You know what I mean? Um, but that's also like again, not to throw a pipe dream out there, but that's not something that happens overnight and you can't predict it's going to happen. It just happens. That's what that's another thing too, right? Like we got to remember how when Bob bought his first ball python, he did not think he was going to be doing this full-time. Um, that wasn't even a thought of his mind. Neither was Aio.

I bought my first ball python at a at the a Tallahassee mall pet shop for $100. It was a normal and end up being a female. So I end up breeding it three years later. But yeah, no one I like never in the wildest dreams I'm like, "Oh, I'm gonna breed snakes for a living." It's not that wasn't even an option. You know, my parents are like, "Cool. If you go to college, you know, if if you decide to go to college, we'll give you an extra, you know, few hundred dollars here and there, and if you work this extra job, I do I worked a lot of random ass jobs back in the day so I can buy new ball pythons." That's why I hated seeing king snake for sale because I actually, uh, I bought my first lesser on there off a kingnake. I bought a spider female off a king snake. I bought a lot of ball pythons off king snake back in the day.

Let me, let me say this. In 2005, I got my first ball python at air, one of air shops down here. And, uh, I have to say something I had written down here is simple. We went from getting that first ball python to learning, right, to to trading and selling on Craigslist, right, to getting and selling online to vending whole states, right? To vending the whole nation to selling snakes around the world. Okay. Tell me that that's not inspiring. Every person in this in on this podcast right now has done that.

Okay. To say that others can't do what they set their set their minds to to me is unacceptable. It's unamerican to me. That's how I feel. I don't know.

Can't do that. It's kind of like being at mad at someone for being in shape, you know, like or like taking care of themselves. And it's like, dude, like

That's a good analogy. That's a good analogy, MJ. That's like going online and you watch YouTube, you watch, uh, Facebook reels and anytime there's a guy that's super jacked, go to the comments.

All the comments are like, "Yeah, how much steroids? What's your cycle?" You know, all this stuff. But they never account that this mofo is in the gym six days a week for two hours a day working his ass off and eating clean and doing all the work, putting all the work. Yes, he's on steroids. I get it, you know, but

Doesn't mean it happens for free. You still got to have a discipline. Like, bro, steroids don't work out. You have tits. You'll become a woman. Like, that's that's a fact.

You have to work. But that's the thing. Like, you don't take that's why also Bob and Alio, like I hate to be not so judgy judgy, but like, man, if again, if we kind of look closely at the people who are very upset, they don't take care of themselves. Like they're they're unhealthy [ __ ] people, dude. And that

Go to the gym and be like that.

That has to be a miserable feeling, dude.

In too good of shape, screw him. That's a pyramid scheme. He's just trying to sell protein.

They're just saying.

You don't even have to Go to the gym, go walk, go burn some calories, [ __ ] address issues, uh, figure your things out, see where you're at.

Yeah. Back back to my question, guys. How's the market been for you guys 2025? What's the market like?

I'm up. I'm up 10% from last year.

Yeah.

I'm doing just great. I'm fine. And not that's condos aside, just ball pythons. I'm doing just everything I everything I wanted is working out for me this year with ball pythons. Happy.

Yeah, we're seeing that turn, right? The the people that got out last year and the year before that as the market got really tight, right? It started to squeeze. Um, your margins are low. Uh, betting price, rodent price all went up. And as those people got out, left kind of a little space and I've gone to shows. I again, I did Southeast and I did at back, uh, Atlanta and Daytona back to back. We crushed both of those. We go to Dallas. We had a pretty go good show overall. It wasn't like, uh, you know, home run or anything, but it's Dallas is growing. That show still needs a lot of work to grow, because again, you moving cities, it takes time, but again, we had three successful shows where we made money. Um, so compared to last year, both all three of the shows made more money than the last year's shows, you know, uh, I'm seeing an upward trend. I'm I'm watching pet animals sell a lot faster, a lot more of them. Um, the international market's better. The only international market right now that's struggling in my opinion is Thailand. Um, Thailand and Indonesia hasn't been buying a lot, but Japan and Korea has picked up the slack. So, I'm shipping a ton over there. And, uh, I was, you know, fortunate enough, lucky enough to go with my wife, uh, in, um, April, and we went to visit the Japanese, the Tokyo big show, the reptile show there. And the market there is so freaking hot, man. It's it's amazing because they're they're basically the US market 10 years ago. Everything is new to them. They haven't seen this [ __ ] before. Japanese people are like, "Whoa, you can keep tortoises in a, you know, at your house and they're buying this [ __ ] up." Um, banana ball pythons for $500 over there, you know, stuff like that. And again, as a person selling in the US, I'm looking at those prices. Damn, I'd be rich over here. But you have to understand how to get those animals over there, what it costs to ship an animal over there. That's why the markup is higher. Um, and then again over there, every breeder, like a big breeder would have like a collection of like a hundred ball pythons because there's no room. So, because they're they're stuck on an island, you know, the the size of like Georgia and Alabama basically. Um, it there's less breeders to compete with, there's less space, so there's no one building ball python farms over there. Um, they're getting a lot of their inventory from us. Um, and the market's hot. They got 40, they have 40 million people living in one city, right? Metro, uh, Metro Tokyo is like 30 something million people. Almost 40 million people. So there's a ball python shop like every few miles. Like I was visiting a guy's ball, that's all he sells in his shop is ball pythons. And this guy's balling. Like this guy took me out to a $1,000 dinner and I was looking at the check. I'm like, "Oh, shoot." And he was like, "No, no, no, no." He's like, "We asked you to come out, you know." I was like, "Okay, cool." I was like, "Oh, God." Uh, yeah. No, these guys are balling over there with these ball python shops, man. They're selling freaking bananas for $500 a piece, you know, and, uh, just while I was visiting his shop, he sold 10 ball pythons, you know? I was there for two hours, uh, checking out the shop and they're just ringing customers up. They just walk in and buy ball pythons, man.

And then and then like coming home from seeing something like that, like that's so refreshing, I'm assuming, right? Like like how good is that?

Oh, I come home like refreshed. I come home like new ideas. I want to be pairing everything. I want I need more hatchlings. I need to be sending these guys stuff and, uh, the ability to do that, um, and make connections and get these guys to obviously take them to dinner or they took me to dinner and, you know, build that type of relationship where I can ship off 50 animals to them and have them make even more money, introduce more people into the industry. I was able to meet a lot of our customers that I've sold to before and, you know, take pictures and and hang out. Uh, it was a really cool experience. I I would suggest if you're in the position to do it and if you're able, go visit some of these other markets. Um, and if go to Puerto Rico, man, Puerto Rico, you don't even need a passport. Go to Puerto Rico. You'll see the market over there. We have very good breeders in Puerto Rico. Um, Kenny Aante, one of my guys, Ron, Kenny. Hi, Kenny.

Yeah, those guys are great breeders over there. Um, and, uh, just go visit some of these other countries. They're so much more excited than us. Um, I'm so glad they they don't have the, um, they they don't have like, um, some of these podcasts in Japanese or Korean, whatever. So, they don't watch the negativity.

Yeah, they just watch Justin's videos and that's it. They they don't watch the negativity. That's It's great.

Wait, wait. I just applied for this to be in translated in Japanese. Not too loud. Just kidding. Yeah, you should apply this one so that they can be excited and know the market's still good. Yeah.

Right. Yo, but I will say this though. Um, kind of going back like dude, everything that like for instance, okay, people ask like whatever, how the [ __ ] did I connect myself with everyone that I know? Dude, I [ __ ] went to these big shows. And still to this day, if you haven't been to an NBC, go to a [ __ ] NBC. And just one or two more, just those one or two connections that you can meet at this show will like maybe not be your next step to success, but it's going to make you excited that you're part of this. And the more you put yourself out there and the more people you meet, the excitement does not stop. The fire continues. That's why, you know, regardless, I I will always go to one of your shows, of course, Bob, but you know, NBC, because like I'm gonna see people that I want to see and speak about because as much as we love the animals, dude, the relationships that you meet in this hobby will change your [ __ ] life. But you got to put yourself out there.

The relationships in this industry is kind of a make and break point. Um,

Yeah, big time.

A lot of my higher-end animals or higher-end package deals are two guys I have a good relationship with, you know. Um, and when people tell you you are the accumulation of the people around you, it's 100% true fact, you know,

And you get to decide that. That's the best part. You get to decide who you spend your time with. You know, you become the people you spend your time with. And, um, you know, going to these shows. Uh, I went to Arlington 2000. God, what was the year where I went bull riding and then almost broke my butt.

Oh, yeah.

I went to Arlington. I didn't vend that show. I just flew out there and hung out. I think it was like 18, I think on 18 or something like that.

I went to Tinley for three years before I even, um, considered vending. You know, I I attended Repcon for years before I vended my first RepCon. So when people are like, oh, I can't go to Tinley because they don't have any tables. I'm like, well, go and hang out, loser. Go and meet breeders and if you can't make it to Tinley, at least you can make it to the Southeast Reptile Expo in Duth, Georgia, January 31st. You know,

At least get your ass out there and meet some vendors. Uh, it's your only other chance to meet Justin Kabiloka. He only vends Tinley and Southeast Reptile Expo. So, um, you know, and and and go out there and shake some hands, tell people about your projects at least and and get excited. Sometimes when you sit at home and watch these, uh, YouTubers complain about the market all the time. Get yourself out there and meet the people that are actually selling snakes.

Yeah. Go be likable. Like go put yourself out there like, you know,

That are actually making money. Stop talking to Stop talking to people that aren't doing it, you know? Yeah, dude. And also, Bob, let's kind of think of this. Like, you throw your own show now, man. Like, it it's deeper than you being a ball python breeder at this point. And and it was even before the show because the community you've built over the years. You got a [ __ ] ton of people who support you. You have two people on the screen here that support you. But, dude, you throw your own [ __ ] show now. That's probably the most talked about show throughout the year now. Um, did you ever saw that coming? Like, you know what I mean?

We weren't even supposed to have a show. We were, you know, I was vending in Atlanta. I was fine with that. But because Atlanta had this void of shows, the only reason we threw it together, I didn't want to become a show promoter. It sounds terrible. I watch what these guys go through dealing with vendors. Dude, we have 140 vendors on the list. And anytime you have a group of 140 people, uh, there's going to be a few people that are hard to deal with. Um, people who complain. And then you're talking about, um, so I I didn't give you the numbers MJ, but we had about 9,000 people through the door in, um, in in August. Um, so when you got 9,000 people through the door, some of them are going to complain. You got whiners and you got people mad that their kid didn't get to meet Snake Discovery and stuff like that. But none of this was planned. We, um, we just threw it together and, um, and hope and hope for the best. And I'll be honest, that first show was so freaking stressful having a show 30 miles away. Um, you know, and now with so many shows now, that's inevitable. How many shows, Amelio, um, do you do, especially since you're in Florida, that's like the mecca of ball python shows? Um, how many shows do you do where there's another show within a 100 miles of you the very next week or the week before, you know?

Bro, I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to tell you. did so many of

Because I mean like if you did Orlando Repticon and then they have Lakeland Repticon or Lakeland Show or Show Me Show in Tampa, which is like not that far away or Lakeland or, um, CMI, um, the land Daytona.

The I4 right there. Yeah, the I4.

The I4 corridor is the the most saturated show market.

Yeah, it's not even

Want to keep cramming shows in there. And I did have a little pushback when we did the show. They're like, "Aren't there already enough shows where you're going to try to do another show?" And I was like, "There are a lot of shows, but how many on I can count on one I guess both hands. Um, the amount of quality shows where I would want to vend my personally, um, at, you know, like you're talking about obviously, I get give props to NBC, been around for freaking 30 years and just putting on Tinley is Tinley alone, like you take you take Tinley alone. Okay, take out all their other shows and they're still one of the best shows in the country. Super show. California Super Show. You got to give all the credit to Ramy. That dude, I heard 40,000 people through the door in June. That's ridiculous.

Crazy.

Yeah. Three Three buildings, bro. Three buildings all at once. [ __ ] just rolling out back. Like it's

Yeah, but these are shows that you go to and you're like, "Dude, I'm going to make some freaking money. I'm not rolling up to a show that has 500 people through the door excited, you know. So, like, yes, there's a lot of shows out there and obviously, um, I'm in Georgia, so I know about saturation, you know. Um, Georgia's as saturated. Tennessee is more saturated than I've ever seen a state with not a lot of people. Uh, in Tennessee alone, Johnson City, Chattanooga, Knoxville, Nashville, all these little hobbunk towns. I mean, I mean, like Chattanooga's population is like 100,000 people. What are you expecting to get 10% of the general population to come out? It's not going to happen, you know, and, um, you know, for all these little shows, imagine if we, I hate to say it this way, like to eliminate a few of them and just have really good solid big shows where vendors can really be excited about it. Attendees can save some freaking money and come to the show instead of just, oh, I I won't buy it here because I'll just go to another show. I'll see you next week at, you know, and, uh, I won't buy it in Orlando because I'll see you in Tampa in a month, you know, and, uh, that takes the urgency away. Um, on the the flip side, I do understand the need of shows because we have so many breeders, um, that can't get into the big shows. They have to vend somewhere. So, yeah, there that's kind of a double-edged sword there. I I feel like, um, I I I I benefit big time from the amount of shows, I'll tell you that. But there are some on the chopping block going forward, and I'm going to start doing more national shows. But what I can say is is that there's spots where we as an industry, maybe there's holes in the map where we might be able to go where we've never gone. Maybe that's something we should look at as as as an industry, you know, big city, bigger, you know, cities that haven't been hit. That that might work, you know.

I got a question for you, Bob, and I'm sure you're going to get this more and more because you again, your show is one of the more popular ones people are talking about, but not everyone could get into your show. So, I'm wondering like because I don't know, like I I will say when it came to going to your show, Bob, I didn't I didn't get the cringed out vendor vibe from one person. Like I felt like every vendor there was like clean and it was cool, but like how are you managing not overdoing it and getting going to a bigger bigger bigger point where more vendors are going to be coming because a lot people I'm sure are on your bumper about wanting to be in your show now. Right.

Right. Um, so yeah, I do apologize to, uh, the Chattanooga population. Um, uh, they they are well over 100,000 people. I do apologize, but, uh, yeah. So, why don't we just open the doors, get more space, and add more vendors, right? Because, and the reason for that is, um, again, we've only had three shows. The last show with 9,000 people is our third show ever. And opening it to larger and adding another 100 vendors, let's say, or 50 vendors. Now, if we're the the crowd only goes from 6,000 to 7,000, we added 50 vendors, each vendor makes significantly less money. So, we have to make sure that the turnout, uh, reflects on what we're going to bring in. We can't add 400 vendors and have a 5K turnout because every vendor is going to be pissed. And who are they going to be pissed at? It's going to be me. Um, so I I have to make sure that the show grows accordingly. Um, I have to make sure that if you paid me good money for tables that I have to at least do my job and let you see enough customers where you have a chance to make money. Again, I can't sell the snakes for you, but I can at least give you 10,000 opportunities to sell snakes. That's my goal, right? I want 10,000 people through the door. You get to see 10,000 people. It's your job to sell the snakes. But, um, I would I would love for the show to grow next year. We are growing next August. So, for those of you that are on the wait list and, you know, blah blah, you know, all that and looking for to get tables and I understand a lot of people on the wait list are really good breeders. Um, we just don't have the space or the, uh, or right now the customer base. But by next August, I am very confident in in our team, our marketing team and all that to get 10,000 people plus through the door. Um, and so that we can expand and add vendors and make sure everyone, you know, has a good opportunity to make money. Um, I would love to fill out the entire venue eventually. We'd like to fill the halls, too, and book the the, um, the ballroom that we can run an auction in and all this stuff. I would love to do that, but until we have that customer base through the door, I don't feel right expanding it because I don't want our current vendors to make less money just because few more vendors want to get in or I want to get greedy on table money or anything like that.

Yeah. And then I don't know one thing I wanted to ask both of you guys, um, because I know people put themselves in the shows as soon as they can, I feel like, and that's okay. Like, man, if you got stuff to sell and you and you're confident with your display and you can get it going, God bless, dude. Go for it. But what would you say to someone out there who's just struggling selling at a show? Like, what what would you guys say the first thing they need to step back and look at if they just feel like they can't [ __ ] sell a snake at a show no matter what?

Man, you can't sell a snake at a show. Um, and if your displays are good, your animals, again, at the end of the day, man, your blue-eyed Lucy versus my blue eyes Lucy is a freaking white snake with blue eyes. Um, it's just salesmanship. You got to get off your phone. You got to talk to people and you got to force yourself for those two days to not be an introvert. It sucks. Um,

Um, Daniel's in the chats right now, so he talks to me all the time about wanting to sometimes wanting to vent shows and I tell him straight up, "No, you're not. You're not ever going to sit there for two days and actually talk to people and vend the show." And he's actually an extrovert. He actually likes talking to people, but he's not going to sit there for two days and vend the show. It's just not he's just not a show vendor. He will he will sit there with me all Saturday, you know, and actually vend the show and sell some animals. But some people just won't. And, uh, you vend a few shows and you'll figure out if you're the show life is for you. I'll be honest, it's not for everybody. Talking to people in person is not for everybody. Sometimes online a lot of people are more pleasant online.

Yeah.

Just like keyboard warriors.

They're a lot scarier online, you know, but maybe salesmanship is online, you know. You're not an in-person person. It's fine, you know.

Yeah. What I would say is, uh, at Publix, we had an old saying, uh, you need to treat your customer like a king and queen. At the end of the day, um, there's a million people they could buy a snake from. You have to genuinely care.

Yeah.

Right. You have to genuinely care. Care about the whole process. Give them your all, you know. Um, represent the hobby to the to the top tier, you know. Um, and on top of that, you got to have the right stuff. But but again, that's not easy either because dealing with people is draining. It will [ __ ] drain you if you aren't mentally like in the game, you know? And that's in or out of show. Like when it comes to responding to inquiries and stuff like that, like going the extra mile, like, you know, go get those [ __ ] grandparent pics. Who give a [ __ ] Like, they want it. They go get it. It's a $1,200 snake. Like, like, think about the sale that you're making here. You know what I mean? I feel like a lot of people [ __ ] and complain about like having to put an effort to make even a $300 sale. It's $300. That's a lot of money. Like, I I feel like are we were not remembering how much we're making off a snake here? Like, do it. That's a that's a positive part of the industry, right? Like you're someone's handing you a literal paycheck, their their entire paycheck.

And you can't go get him another picture, like one more picture.

I I feel I feel like you have to have diversity on the table, uh, as well. Um, but let me let me say this. I almost forgot. Um,

Sorry.

Uh, be right back.

Don't don't forget.

Yeah. Um, simply, [ __ ] man. I forgot, Bob. I forgot what I was going to say, but I'll remember you. You talk, say something. I'll remember in like five minutes.

Okay. So, when you're talking about diversity on the table, it's not so much even about species, right? Because all I do is ball pythons, but because I have enough variety on the table between a $100 animal, $200 animal, all

That's what I meant though.

5k animal, right? You're talking about diversity.

Yeah.

And so, you have the market for all of them. So, I do feel bad for some of the the guys trying to vend their first few shows and they only have two clutches, you know, and and they're all hats on the table. It's a bunch of, you know, combo head clowns. Well, the the mom and dad that's bringing to your tables don't care what the word hat means. It doesn't look like anything. Well, it's a brown snake, but it can produce a really cool animal. Yeah, I don't care.

I remember the first snake.

Go ahead with your point. Now, do you remember it?

All right. So, simply put, right, if you do a show like Pomona, if you do a show like Siri where there's actual people, there's 9,000 people.

Yeah.

I'm going to tell you guys this. If you could talk at the

End of Saturday and you ain't [ __ ] tired, you didn't work [ __ ] hard. The busiest show I've ever done was Pomona, right? Guess what? I went to bed super early Saturday and I couldn't [ __ ] talk. That's what it takes to make money in this game. Yeah.

And you know, okay, and I'm going to say somebody who's been a spectator of the show game majority and I've vetted a couple reptile super shows, but holy [ __ ] And I've told you before, Bob, I have a strong cell background in sales. Okay? Before all this, I was heavily in sales and I was good at sales. Nothing gets me more excited being a fellow like salesman lover. Seeing you in action, Alio in action, Dave Leon in action, Mark Bailey in action. I've seen you [ __ ] sell in person and I [ __ ] just love, I just love it, dude. I love. And that right there. You, you got to have that instilled in you. Like when, when, and you know what I'm talking about, Bob and Amelia. When you are talking to a customer and you're almost zoned out, like you're just so [ __ ] just in the [ __ ] goddamn moment with the customer, dude. I'm telling you. Like that's, that's what elevates. Give Bob, I want to give Bob another compliment. So when I'm working the table hard, right? Pause. I never use that term, but whatever.

Um, my boy Paul, which you know Bob, my boy Paul 3D, he always likes to say, "Oh, he's doing his Bob thing. He's doing his Bob, you know, stripper pole thing right now. Look at him."

"Working it. He's working it."

"Working that shit." That's what my boy says, bro.

He's working it. And it takes showmanship and salesmanship really to make it in this industry now. And the reason we don't see as much of it, um, be on display, you know, when we go to shows and a lot of these guys are complaining is because of COVID. During COVID, I can take a snake card out of the egg, post a picture, and literally we'll have 20 people message me, "How much? How much? How much? How much?"

And because of that, um, they, these guys never developed salesmanship. Never had to. And they didn't have to develop customer service. They didn't have to do any of this. During COVID, I ran out of animals so many times of inventory. I had to cancel so many shows. I would call, again, people can [ __ ] and moan about resells or whatever. I'd call people and say, "I have zero inventory. What do you guys have? Let me sell something for you because I, I'm bored. I have no snakes." You know, and during COVID, so let's say, um, 2020, I would have done 160, 170 clutches or something. 2020 and I ran out of snakes to sell, you know, but during COVID, you didn't have to do anything. All you got to do is have inventory and you're going to make money. But because of that, they got so spoiled, they didn't have to go through that salesmanship part with that I had to go through from '16 to '20. Um, and then after 2022, '23, these guys don't even know how to do a setup at a show. They don't even know how to talk to customers at a show. Uh, you know, I, I, I don't say I don't, I'm not going to say I have a script. But pretty much, if you walk up to my table, I'm going to ask you, "Do you have any reptiles at home?" "Oh, you have four ball pythons? Great. What are you looking for today? What type of colors, mutations do you like?" Blah blah blah blah blah. Those guys would just basically look down at their phone, look up, see a customer, and say, "You want to buy anything?" No. You know, um, "You looking to buy anything today?" No. Okay. Oh, sorry.

No, they're. And listen, at the end of the day, let's say it, bro, they're [ __ ] angry.

Yeah, dude. Dude, they're in a bad mood before the doors open.

Hey, nobody wants to talk. Nobody wants to talk to an angry person.

You can't sell angry. I'll tell you that much.

No, no, nobody.

Why would I want to give you money, [ __ ]?

Yeah. Like, you're always in a bad mood. I won't even, if you, I'll throw this one out there, too. There's a vendor in in Tinley that I don't buy from and he produces good stuff. Every time I walk by his table, he's always sitting down and won't even like acknowledge me or stand up. He would just look up, "Oh, hey Bob." I've never gotten a handshake from this breeder in the 10 years I've been in Tinley. And that's, I just refuse to spend money with someone that can't even, you know, talk to me about snakes or at least act excited that they have customers at their table. And then he always has a bad show and it's always, "This market's this, this market's that," right? But during COVID, it was great for him, you know, and COVID definitely, um, helped the longevity of some of these guys' careers because they definitely would have quit in 2020 if COVID didn't happen.

Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Can we cut to commercial break real quick? And I got a couple more topics that are, uh, in the, in the chamber here, loaded to go. So guys, we're going to cut to commercial break. Sit tight. Be right back.

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All right, we're back. Guys, do me a favor. Over 100 people tapped in. I'm so happy. Great crowd. But can we get the likes up? The ratio just doesn't, you know, it doesn't compute. All right, we got to get the likes up. All right, because Bob and Big E, even myself, we're spitting fire right now. And, uh, we're going to get back to this next topic here. Uh, boys. Um, now, you know, obviously Bob and Amelio, I feel like one of the things to be wise or considerable about is like, at a certain point, when you are breeding stuff, like, like, I don't know, like you should always be considering like what your overhead is looking like. But like, how does somebody make sure they're not keeping something they shouldn't have in their collection? Like, should it be like a monthly check thing or a quarterly check thing? Like, how are you guys making sure that you're not sitting on animals you know you don't need in your collection and you're not feeding for no reason?

Um, this happens, this [ __ ] happens to me all the time, I'll be honest. Um, I'll go through an ultrasound session and I'm like, "Is this female still here?" And one of my guys will be like, "Yeah, you meant to sell her like two months ago and she's still sitting in the collection. We just keep feeding and breeding." Um, and I, I get into the worst trap. Mine is that I'll look at a female and go, "Well, she gave me nine eggs last year. You know, she's a yada yada head clown. I know I have visuals, but she gave me nine eggs." But, uh, trimming the fats of your collection is so important. Um, you have to be able to trim the fats of your collection so that your collection can grow. You can't, uh, because if you look at your racks and they're all full, you don't want to hold back new animals. You don't want to buy new animals. Trimming the fats. Uh, let's say this animal is going to be worth $500. Selling off of $500 to go buy a $1,000 animal so that you can produce a two times more valuable clutch. You got to do it. Um, so about monthly, I go through on my ultrasound sessions about first of the month and I'll start marking adult females, adult males, uh, stuff. And then even my holdbacks, I'll go through the holdback rack and I go, "Why did I hold that back? It's a year old and I'm like, that gene's not even relevant. I don't even like that." Like, that's, or I might look at the animal and say, "I don't like the look. I don't want to breed it," you know, whatever. Um, so about monthly, I, I do like an assessment of the collection and try to, um, make sure that we have room to grow.

For me, um, my collection is still, I would say, relatively small in comparison to some. Um, for me, I assess the female's performance. Um, the saturation level of what she offers in the market. Uh, what do I have coming behind her? Can I trust a female that's coming behind her? Um, because, you know, sometimes it takes time to get these girls up, you know, to size where you could trust them. Maturity. Um, I'm one of those guys that doesn't sell much breeder females. I should, I should start. Um, but, you know, it's coming. I have to. Um, but I'm also in, starting to expand a bit. So, I have to see, I have to make decisions, uh, based on that. I, I run out of animals every year, much like you said, Bob. Um, there are points during the year where I'll admit I have to get animals from really good sources. And, uh, honestly, I have to work on trying not to have to do that myself. So, but yeah, I'm with you. You have to upgrade your collection. Uh, that's, that's what I'm doing now. Uh, but, um, it's, it's not as fast when you don't have a really big collection. I'm holding back about 40, 50 animals a year. Uh, you know, these animals take a while to grow up and and trust. Uh, so it depends, depends on your size and collection. You, if you look at like, like this Amelio, if you're, let's say you raise 50 animals a year, like as holdbacks or whatever, um, and if you, depending on your current state of your collection. So for you, you're expanding, so it's a little bit different. For us, we're trying to stay pretty much at the same size. I really like the size of my collection right now. It's exactly as much work as I want my guys doing. I only want my guys working here Monday through Thursday. I don't want to see anybody in the building on Friday. I'll be honest. Friday is our day, like where I go down there and work and I don't want to see my guys. Um, and again, I want to give them time off so when we go do shows that they have to be there all weekend. But, um, if you are trying to maintain your collection size and if you're raising 50 animals a year, that means you have to sell one animal a week. You have to sell one breeder animal a week to make room for one new breeder a week. 50 animals, basically one every week. You have to sell one breeder a week. And then if not, all of a sudden by the end of the year, you're like, "Oh [ __ ] I got 50 females growing out. That means 50 females have to leave." And it puts you in a kind of not a desperate situation, but now you have to kind of like do a mass, um, sell off and then you're not going to get your good value out of it. So if you sell off, you know, an animal here or there, like one every other week or whatever to make, make yourself some room ahead, if you're, this is only for maintenance. That's like if you're maintaining the collection size. Um, you know, prepare to sell breeders as your animals growing out so that you don't become desperate and be like, "Crap, I got to move 50 females next week," and then auction them off or, you know, wholesale them that way, get your value out of them.

For sure. Yeah.

Let me say, if like, let's say you had a customer where you saw where things were headed for them and you knew that they were going to be in this position. How would you set them up for success as far as like making sure they are in a position where they could sell these animals once it comes time? Uh, because again, an adult's not as easy to sell as a baby. Uh, sometimes it depends on the snake, right? But if you have like a starter off snake that couple incomplete dominance, like how do you know what to do with a group of those snakes, um, when you've only been around for so long?

So especially in Kodoms and adults, um, it's not even worth, I'll be honest, a lot of them are not even worth posting on Morph Market because the shipping is so high on an adult, right? You're talking about shipping is going to be average $50 to $75 for an adult, especially if I have to ship market on market.

On Morph Market. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something elsewhere. Yeah. It could be $100, $125. I know breeders that charge $80 flat rate shipping because they can't get cheaper rates for some reason.

Um, even though it's at their fingertips, but, uh, that's a topic for another day. But, uh, I would suggest you go to your local show or local pet store and sell them. And again, if it's not worth, if you can't get good money for them, it's probably not even worth breeding at that point for you. Uh, if you're growing a collection and even if you get $300 out of it, let's say you get two $300, it's a, you know, enti, mojave, yellow belly, whatever, you get two $300 out of it, is making room for you to raise a way better animal instead of sitting on this animal for the next eight months or whatever trying to get retail. Um, and make yourself some room. Um, and, and clear off that space. And the earlier you do it, the better so you don't get to this desperate situation where you go to a pet store and be like, "Hey, $50 a piece and get rid of them." Uh, which I've seen breeders do. People message me all the time with lists of adults that they want to sell and for some reason they think I would like to buy their enti hatet pi female and I'm like, "I, what am I going to do with that?" Um, but they, yeah, get into the practice of moving out animals as you're growing. So in your head, you're like, "Okay, I'm going to hold back this female, um, today. Okay, this female is only 100 grams." Yes, go ahead and sell the her replacement soon because, uh, if you, because if you're every week, you're you're thinking about another holdback because you're holding 50 a year. That means every week you got to sell an animal pretty much at that point.

And let me tell you, the the the adults.

People, people buy them at the shows, man. They'll, they want opportunities at that first clutch.

At shows, they're more willing to spend more money on an adult because you can feel the animal. You can see the animal. You can see the opportunities in it, right? It's plump. They're like, "Oh, cool." You know, you can ask more questions in person. Obviously, some people don't want to inquire on a on a $300 adult online. When in person, they can just ask you, "When did it lay last? Is it ready to breed now?" yada yada yada. And you can get way better money bringing a stack of adults to a show than you, you can online. Yeah, for sure.

Are you taking a lot less animals now, Bob, to a show or has it been about the same for throughout the last five years?

Um, I, I, I do less shows, but I do bring a lot of inventory. Uh, there, there hasn't been a show. I won't do a show if I can't bring at least a hundred animals to it.

What's the best inventory that sells for you at a show overall, like across the board?

$700. Around $500 to $700 is is a good sale to me. And that's like the, the right around the average of what we do. Um, Tinley is different. Tinley, my my price, you know, average, you know, per snake is probably closer to $12 to $1,300. Um, I don't do RepCons anymore, but back when I was doing RepCons, it was probably closer to $200 to $300 because you sell a ton of blue-eyed lucys and pides. Um, but now because I only do like national shows, I do the NBC's, our show, Daytona, and stuff like that. Um, it's probably close to five to $700 is what I sell the most of.

And what about you, Amelio?

100%. What, what, uh, Bob just said is, is the, the way it goes. Um, RepCons, you're talking about 150 to 300. You get lucky here and there with a $500, $600 sale. Uh, but other than that, you know, everything else for me is pretty much online. Every, anything over $700 for me, unless you get lucky, has been online. So, yeah.

I can only imagine each show being different, like you're breaking down right now, Bob. So, you know, should vendors consider doing the homework on the show that you're about to go vend and like figure out what previous sales were doing good for others and like kind of canvassing what the hell you're about to experience, you would say?

Yeah, you can do that or you can join a Patreon of like another breeder that vends a lot of shows or had history of vending a lot of shows like, uh, you know, Bob's Ball Shed. Um, we do a breakdown of all the shows we vend between us and even some of the other Patreon members. We'll break down their shows and the show experience and give you a snapshot of what's selling. Um, again, my inventory ranges from $100 all the way up to $10,000 animals every show. Um, and I bring a lot of animals. I've gone to shows with 400 animals before on the table. You know, I've gone with 20 full, 20 displays full of animals before. So, I have a very good grasp on what sells where. So, I can go to Dallas and, and, you know, expect to make this type of money. I'll go to this type of show and not even bring a $10K animal because I know no one's going to be interested in it and not no reason to stress out that animal. So, um, you can ask breeders. You, I do it all the time after a chain of shows. I'll message breeders, "Hey, how'd you guys do in Kansas? How'd you guys do in, you know, Daytona, Tinley, wherever?" And if I'm interested in a market, Nashville or whatever, I will message a few breeders that've been at the show before, see how it is. If a good breeder that went to that show and didn't make money, I might not go. You know, uh, if a bad breeder told me it was bad, I'm, I'm not going to take their word for it, so I'm never going to ask them. But like right after, uh, I vended Dallas two weeks ago, and we did well. I did $14,000 there in Dallas. And, uh, I, I messaged Dave Levenson. I messaged my my boy Travis from TNS. I messaged Jacob Folks. Quite a few people because the same weekend there was like eight other shows as Dallas and ARBC. Troy and Nick had their show in Virginia. That's right. They had an AP in Virginia. There was a Nashville Show Me Show. That's like their big show. And there's all these RepCons. But I messaged everybody to try to get a snapshot of how the shows were doing, what their turnout was, so that I can tell my Patreon members about it. Um, and I want to give my Patreon members or even my friends that ask, you know, my honest opinions and, and, uh, and data. I want to be like, "Hey, there was about 3,000 people through the door and one of my vendors that went there with 200 animals did really well," or "There was only a thousand people through the door and, you know, yada yada." So, yeah, it's good. Just ask vendors, man. A lot of vendors will give you their their honest numbers.

Yeah. Um, yeah. And so with that being said, I don't know, are you looking at like something where because I don't know, do you feel like you have to vend to have successful sales in this hobby? Um, like, or are there ways around that you would say?

No. Uh, Dustin vends two shows a year and I'll be honest, he don't make no money at the shows. Uh, he did at SE the first two shows, but he's there to show off, man. He brings two displays of animals. Just shows off animals. Um, my online sales are really good. I honestly could just drop all the shows. I, I vend shows because I like being there. I'll be honest. I love being in Tinley. I love being in Daytona. I love being at Southeast. Um, these shows are just fun for me. I like to see my friends. Uh, if I made no money there, yeah, sure it sucks. I'd like to at least recoup my my cost, but, um, I don't need the shows. The, the online sales alone would be fine. Um, I know breeders that don't vend any shows. Will Morose. I don't, Will, I don't even know if you've ever been to a show and that dude crushes it and he never, I don't, never seen him set up before.

I want to say I've seen him maybe do one show in Canada. I could be tripping, but you, or I don't know. I don't, yeah. He was never vended a show.

Yeah. Oh, his brother did. He put his brother there.

Yeah.

He put breeders that don't vend shows. Uh, Barry Swoke didn't his first show until last year. Yeah, you know, I know great breeders that don't vend and it can still work. You don't have to vend shows to make it work. Uh, it's way cooler if you did, um, because it's so much fun. I enjoy the.

Yeah. And again, it's, it's like almost, it's different, you know, like because you, the, the vending community is its own thing, you know, like you, you meet other vendors who don't even really work with ball pythons. They have other stuff and it's just a, it's a cool thing. And then not only that, like you have people who like attending the shows and you have regulars and you have people who just do the show but aren't really attached to social media. They just like the shows and I'm sure.

So many aspects of this. There's so many ways to do it, man. And, and just find out what works for you. I just like the shows because I like cash a lot and, uh, I like the smell of it and I like, you know, I just enjoy getting cash, you know. I like someone. Hey man.

During COVID, I had to bring a money counter machine to the shows because we had so many, um, what do they call them now? Exotic entertainers that would come out and buy snakes in singles. And I, I was so tired of counting ones. Um, I actually brought a money counter to these shows and that's how much cash we were burning through, um, during COVID. It was great, man. I, I love being at the shows. The, the energy, the, you know, like Tinley's energy is so crazy. It's so different, right? Yeah, it's a different vibe in Daytona because Tinley, it's freaking 18 degrees outside. Everyone's huddled up in the bar and, um, you know, talk about the season. It's a great, it's a great time.

All right. Well, listen, why don't we go around the board here? Let's go around the see if there's any, anything that you want to talk about, Bob. Uh, if there's anything that we didn't touch on, uh, any, any kind of wrap-up topics, I want to give you the floor if there's anything you want to speak about.

Uh, Amelio, I'm going to let you go first while I brainstorm. Um, for me, it's simple. Uh, get that pessimism out of your life, guys. Um, if you're angry at me and MJ, message me. Message me and talk to me. Get to know me. If I tell, if I'm critical of something, it's a two-minute breeder, a five-minute breeder misrepresenting themselves. Um, I'm here to help everyone. I really want to grow this industry. For people out there to say that we are gatekeeping and we are not genuinely wanting to build the industry and we only care about our business is the biggest [ __ ] I've ever heard. Okay, it makes me angry. People like that want you angry. So, I'm going to let it go. And I actually saw my name in a comment and I've never been called a doofus in my life. Okay, I'm going to say this. I've been called the nicest [ __ ] you ever meet. Okay, meaning that I have good intentions and I will help people. So again, I have to say, get that negativity out of your life.

Yes.

That [ __ ] will take you down, okay? It will drown you.

It will drown you. You will get nowhere. Get out of that energy, guys.

Yeah. Trust. It's no good.

Serves no purpose.

The guys on this panel here have done big things in life. That negativity is no good. Run from it, guys. That's all I have to say.

Yeah, man. I like that because.

Man, I've never seen anyone actually make any money being negative.

Yeah. They're not.

Negative people. They're not making money. They're not successful. They're not happy. They're just online ranting about things that didn't work out for them. Again, I'm not talking about anyone specific. I'm just talking about the negativity overall, right? Even though you all know who I'm talking about. Um, but, you know, overall, look at the industry as a whole. Don't look at the few [ __ ] you meet in the industry. I had a, I just went back from dinner, um, with my buddy Jay and we're talking about how many shitty people he's met in the industry, blah blah blah. And I was like, "Jay, for every crappy person you meet in this industry, you're going to meet 10 people that are way cooler." You know, uh, for like, I've been in this industry, I've been going full-time coming up on my 10th year breeding, uh, selling snakes full-time. You know, I've been breeding way longer. Um, I'll be coming up on my 20th year hatching reptiles, um, soon. And I have maybe three reptile beefs with three, three, three breeders in 20 years, you know, and I have thousands of friends, uh, you know, and it's the positivity is amazing because I go to Japan, there's breeders there I meet up with. I go to Vietnam, there's breeders there I go meet up with. Like literally, well, I was riding in Vietnam off of an Uber, which is like a like a little scooter. My wife was ahead of me and she stops at the restaurant before me and someone says, "Hey, are you Mary? Are you Bob's wife?" And Mary's like, "Who the hell are you?" The guy pulls his shirt aside and he has a tattoo of a ball python on his chest and he goes, "Uh, oh, I follow your husband on Instagram." And this community is so wide and there's so many good people in it. You're going to meet so many more good people than bad people and you're going to make lifelong friends. So, don't fret and don't think about the the negative people so much. And don't give them your time and, and energy because that's all, that's all they're feeding off of is is is your attention. And if we just, uh, ignore them, hopefully they'll go away. Uh, I doubt it. Um, because it's been this long and they're still here. Um, but yeah, man. I just, uh, just do you and, uh, put in the hard work and, uh, everything will work out. You know, I'm never going to tell you it's easy, but if you do put in the work, it's, it, it will work out.

Go ahead. Say something.

I want, you know, I have to bring this up like.

Go ahead.

It's very hard, but it can be done. Okay. I have to say, Bob, you, you inspire me also because you are that Asian guy that got into the top 10 in this [ __ ] game.

I appreciate that.

That [ __ ] ain't easy, dude. Okay. A lot of people, they don't like bringing [ __ ] up like that. Okay.

But that, that shit's real.

All right. That, I, I truly believe that.

That's [ __ ] amazing to me. So.

The, the industry has grown so much since then, right? Because, uh, about 10 years ago, Amelio, you remember there was a lot of race type, racist type mentality in the industry still, you know, we were battling it. I was battling it. Uh, and I was championing it, dude. I was online every day waiting for these people. I was just hoping someone drops, you know, a racial slur, which they did every day. And I would battle these guys. And because of Facebook, you can out these guys. And he, um, you, uh, it happened to Miguel. Someone went on there and was like, "We're tired of this Spanish [ __ ] Blah blah blah blah blah. This America blah blah blah." Right. When he started his Spanish ball python channel.

Yeah.

And, uh, you know, and the industry's grown a long way. It's no longer an industry of ponytail, uh, white dudes, which again, there's nothing wrong with that. Obviously, half and [ __ ] all my employees are white. Uh, but it's grown and then there's room for everybody, you know, and there's no room for, uh, this, this type of like mentality of like, it's only for us or, you know, it can only work for these type of guys or gatekeeping. They're gatekeeping from us and, and, you know, the guys at the top won't let us be successful or anything like that because when I got in the industry, it would definitely felt like that for me, you know, but it's not like that. You just work hard and overcome it. If I can do it, I'll be honest, there ain't nothing special about me except for I'm better looking than half of you. Um, but, you know, it will, it can work out. You know, it's, it's like, it, it doesn't take much, uh, of anybody special. It just takes a lot of hard work and, uh, being able to clean rats on a weekly basis. Um, yeah, and just, uh, put in the hours, man, and, and really enjoy it. Get, get out there. And I encourage everyone to do this. Even if you are not a real herper, just get out there. No matter where you are in the United States, there are good months. You can get out there, flip a rock, flip a log, see animals in person, outside of a fish tank, and enjoy it. Really, I think you're going to have a good time. Um, just experience it. I have so many people that message me every year and say, "Man, I wish I can go herping, too." I'm like, "But you can. It's free. It doesn't cost you anything to go outside and flip a rock over." Um, and just do it. Um, there's an app called iNaturalist. Just look up in your area what species are there. Study it and get your ass out there and enjoy nature.

And I'm just going to say, I challenge anyone out there who can't find a way to be happy. If going outside flipping over [ __ ] doesn't make you happy, go [ __ ] find something that makes you happy, dude. Living your life unhappy, miserable, is just not the way to be on Earth, dude. It's not a way to [ __ ] be here present when you're just miserable and unhappy, man. There's, there's things out there that can make you happy, but you got to go [ __ ] find out what it is. And if it's not reptiles, the [ __ ] you doing here? I don't get it. What's? You got such an issue with everything happening in the reptile world. Why are you here?

What's the? If you're not happy doing this, man. Um, dude.

Doesn't matter what you hatch next week or month or year. Doesn't matter if you hit the one out of 32 odds, you're not going to be a happy person. Um.

Yeah. Figure it out. Where you go?

Thinking, guys.

Yeah, I don't know where Bob went.

Did I? Did I freeze? Did I?

No, you're good. No, go ahead. You're good. Finish what you're saying. Go ahead, Bob.

Yeah. I was like, uh, it doesn't matter. Like, you're not unhappy because of the odds or anything. If you're unhappy doing reptiles, honestly, just leave and, and do something else. It's unfair to the animals. It's unfair to you. It's unfair to your family that you're taking hours away from. Um, and if you're just not happy doing this, um, it honestly is better off that you leave. Now, I always tell people this is the exact same as being in a in a relationship. Two people telling themselves they need to stay together because they've already wasted too much time of their their life, so they feel like they have to be together or, uh, forcing themselves to be together because they have a kid. Um, that's probably one of the worst things you can do. Um, because that kid knows, um, that their parents are not happy. Um, so if you're not happy, man, um, find something else. Um, because reptiles make me very happy, but it, uh, it, you know, I, if I can bottle up the excitement of flipping over a board or a log or whatever and finding that life or species you've never seen before in in person, if I can bottle that up and sell it, I, I would be a gajillionaire. But, uh, reptiles make me so happy that I actually get unhapp, not happy when I see people not enjoy it. So, if you're, if you're not happy, man, leave. Honestly, and, um, and find something else.

And I feel like the biggest point of tonight's episode is to protect our happiness, man. Like I want all of us on this [ __ ] show tonight to express how happy we are to be a part of something that has been such a blessing to our lives. And again, not just the reptiles, the people, the friends, the, I mean, the, the team that Bob has. Like, I mean, again, we give so much props to Bob, but man, I feel like Bob [ __ ] balls is because of the goddamn whole operation. Like the whole team, like he, it's a lot more than just Bob, you know what I mean? Like it's crazy.

You get to choose. You get to choose who you, you're around all year. I get to choose the guys that, you know, that are around me. I get to choose my team. I get to choose. If you don't like them, man, just tell them to leave. That's it.

Be honest.

Be honest with them. Like, "Hey, it's not going to work out. You know, maybe we just can't be partners, friends, family, business, whatever." And, uh, I have family that I don't associate with because they're such negative people. I'm going to be honest. I have friends that I'm way closer to than any of my family because they're just fun to be around. Find people that you have fun with. Find people that you know jive with you and, um, you know, do that.

That will make you better.

Yeah.

Yeah, man. Well, listen, I hope this episode brought some light and I think it did. Obviously, I mean, the chats were on fire all night. And I think we covered a lot of great topics and, and overall, at the end of the day, I'm so happy to be a part of the ball python game. I'm, I'm so happy to be a part of the reptile hobby, the, the, the industry as a whole, you know, kind of getting to link up with all you guys whenever I can. It, it's a [ __ ] awesome feeling, man. And, and again, maybe it's not the same for everybody out there, but we don't speak for everybody else. All I can tell you is that we're having a good time and, and, and it's just the beginning for all of us. We're all not that old, thank God. Uh, but I'm just saying we're, we're going to be around for a while and that's another reason.

Yeah. Anytime someone calls me an OG and I'm like, "I'm not OG."

I mean, in our game, we are OG's, bro.

I was like, "God, I had been in that long." But thinking about like.

You got 20 plus, right?

Yeah, it's been 20 years. I'm like, "Oh god."

Yeah, bro. Hey, that, that OG, that OG title is [ __ ] amazing, man.

Bob's not. Yeah, Bob's, he looks so young still, you know? I don't, I get it. I get it. But, you know.

Um, all right. Anything you want to say to the people, Bob? We had well over 120 people tapped in tonight. A lot of people here rocking with you. So, anything you want to say to the people before we let you go?

No, I appreciate everybody. I know if you're, uh, fans of mine, a lot of you guys are on the East Coast. I appreciate you guys staying up till 11 o'clock on a on a weekday. And, um.

You know, uh, I'll see you guys at the Southeast Reptile Expo in January. Um, January 31st, February 1st. Um, it's going to be a good show. Snake Discovery is going to be back out there. We'll pick a new theme and then August 1st and 2nd, uh, we're going to have that show is going to be our biggest show with the space-wise and it's going to be a banger. Um, man, I'm, we have so many marketing ideas and so much more, um, to offer for this, for this thing.

And Bob, I know you're always looking for quality vendors. So, if there is somebody out there who deserves to be at your show, what's the best way for them to kind of get on that list? What should they do?

For February, we're actually not adding vendors because of the space situation. We're not like adding more space. So, for February, I can't. But for August, if you are a quality vendor that breeds anything other than freaking ball pythons and crested geckos, even if you do ball pythons, just hit me up either way. Um, yeah, sign up on southeastreptileexpo.com. We are sold out for February, but we do, uh, we are going to open up more space in August. So, uh, if you would like to vend in August, please just go on the website and sign up. As soon as you sign up, it automatically puts you into our waiting list based on the order you sign up in. Um, Amelio, I'll hit you up later and we'll get you set up for August. And yeah, man, we're, uh, for August, we're trying to make it the biggest show we can do. Um, we're in over 100,000 square feet of space. Um, and we're, it's going to be a really nice show. Again, MJ, you've seen the, you've seen the facility, the seen the venue. It's a beautiful venue and it's, um, so conveniently located and parking and all that's really well, are really good. The restaurants are nice. Um, so yeah, in August, we are really excited. Get your name, um, get on the waitlist. Uh, get on the vendor list and we will get most of you. We'll try to get everybody, uh, added in for August, honestly. And if you do any other species, if you do green trees, if you do monitors, if you do anything cool, put it on there so I know because the more variety the better for the customer experience.

I'm going to pull Tinley. I'm going to pull Tinley on you and say, "Hey, man. I'm going to have KBOs, ball pythons."

And then you only come with ball pythons.

No, I'll have it.

No, bring the KBOs, man. Honestly, people, man. Yes, sir.

It's KBOs are creeping up on people. They, people didn't know they were that cool and then now they know.

Oh, yeah.

Creos.

Well, I'm going to spill a load of beans here. I don't know what show it is, but I'm going to make sure I'm on this guy's bumper about it. But think about Marshall Mendes setting a booth up at your show with all his albino [ __ ] all his bro [ __ ] you won't find anywhere else. Okay? Because how close you are to him. I think you're only a two and a half hour drive. So if he would ever do a show, he wants to be somewhere that close. So think of that [ __ ] goddamn that would be legendary. You know what I mean?

I can get Marshall out there. I'd love to get, um, Dun from, uh, from Garders. Dun, right? I'm trying to get him to come out there. He doesn't vend shows because he doesn't need to. But I'm trying to get him to come out there and display some of his Garders and, uh, stuff like that. Man, we're, and we already have a good variety. I just want, I want the ratio to be right. Right. I don't want the show to be 50% ball pythons or anything like that.

We have a ratio cap. We'd like to stick with, you know, X amount of ball pythons. I don't want every other table to be ball pythons. Maybe every five tables can be ball pythons and it's fine. But yeah, we want the frogs. We want the representation because I want people to come into the show and go, "Wow, there's reptiles, not just a ball python show," which a lot of shows become, you know. Um, and again, it's unfair to you ball python breeders a little bit, but, um, b your time. I will be able to get you guys in, uh, you know, as we go and grow this thing. Bob's Ball 2 on IG, uh, Southeast Reptile Expo. Go follow on Instagram. Be ready for any updates that come here on the network. But, uh, thank you so much, Bob, for your time and again, man, thank you for just being who you are in this hobby, bro, like a really good example on where success could [ __ ] take you in the ball python game and that's you, my man. So I appreciate it so much.

All right. Appreciate you guys. Thank you.

All right. Give it up. It's a wrap for Bob, ladies and gentlemen.

Later, Bob. Peace.

All right, man. Let's do some final thoughts here. Amelio. Just you and I, buddy. Um, I, I, I don't know. I don't know. I want you to go first. What do you have to say to.

Um, like I said, to the people that are angry out there and might have maybe, uh, been misled or made believe that we're like the worst guys out.

There on that side. Get to know the other side. Message me. My number's on my number's on face on uh on my Morph Market. Text me. We can set up a phone call. That's simple.

You know, when that happens, guess what happens? All the issues go away. Like whenever you speak to somebody, talk to people. Talk to people. Okay? There there will be a real conversation, not some [ __ ]. Uh, I don't know, like [ __ ] that doesn't make sense because how could anything make sense when you haven't done this for 20 years? Yeah. I mean, make make [ __ ] make sense, guys. Come on.

And you can only complain so much if you're not willing to talk it out or at least [ __ ] say, "You know what? I spoke to the person about this and I still don't see eye to eye to him." Hey, at least you said you can spoke at least you could say you spoke to him. But how many of you are actually how many of you who have the [ __ ] balls to talk all tough in the comments are actually calling any of us or speaking to any of us? No, there's people that don't bother calling me. I'm just saying because what's what there what's there to talk to you about? Yeah. You know what I mean? It's [ __ ] stupid. Yeah. Yeah.

But anyone that's willing to talk other than a certain amount certain set of people, go for it. I'm here to help. I'm here to help everyone. Yeah. And you know what I got to say, man? That's why I'm proud to have you a part of not only what we're doing here on the network, dude. But you're my friend, dude. Like you're I consider you as my brother. You help me get better in so many different areas in like not only like in the hobby, but just as a human, dude. And and I think we do that for each other. And I feel like you should [ __ ] find somebody out there who helps you want to become a better person. We all know I've been a work in progress for the last I don't know how many [ __ ] years. And I own that, dude. You know, we all are. We all are. People that think they're perfect, they need to look in the [ __ ] mirror. Like some of them can't some of them. I'm some of them can't look in the mirror. It's too hard. It's too diff bro. Some of these people, they cannot look at themselves in the mirror. It's too hard.

Yeah. Uh, again, assess your issues in in real time and and the only way you get better is if you fix them. So, yeah. Uh, again, thank you for everything you've done for me, you know, we're brothers. Uh, I tell people all the time, the people that really get to know you, they know the real you. Uh, I think you're one of the most loyal friends and family out there. Um, thanks, man. I I feel like more people should get to know you on on a personal level, you know.

So, and I and I will to say I will become a little I'll try to become easier to want to get to know because I know how I could get um I put a lot of energy into these podcasts, guys. So, I don't always have the same energy to conversate in social media like I do here because I put a lot into it and Alio is a close enough friend of mine who knows how much work I do day in day out and also being a dad and being a [ __ ] husband. So, I try to protect my energy. I try to reserve a lot of the [ __ ] that I have for the show so I can give you guys [ __ ] good entertainment sometimes. But that's sometimes all I have, but I will do a better job. I will, especially to my own Patreon members, I will do a better job being more open and trying to put myself out there. But at the end of the day, dude, [ __ ] There's some days you don't want to talk to MJ. And that's I I'm being [ __ ] 100% with I have day-to-day [ __ ] situations here, okay? Not every day is it [ __ ] "Wow, MJ's in a good." No, dude. Just some days, just don't [ __ ] with me. And that's okay.

I want everyone to know out there, we [ __ ] we [ __ ] love this game. Okay. I love it. Today, today I was at the barber shop and I'm messaging my wife telling her, "Holy [ __ ] like sometimes I can't believe this happened." you know, uh, everything where it's at. The fearlessness that it takes to address some of these issues live on camera in front of people to to uh rip apart and and dissect and analyze um the risk of or the fearlessness of flying to the West Coast to do a show, to do shows nationwide, to do shows throughout the whole state of Florida, to get people to get to know people all over the I patted myself on the back uh with what I've been able to do. And again, I repeat, anyone can do what they set out to do. Do not believe people that say that you can't do something. Um, I I could honestly tell you guys, I love this game so much and what I've been able to accomplish that I had to fight some tears in my eyes of how proud I felt today on the runup to a podcast like this. Um, that's that's [ __ ] genuine. That's genuine, Emilio.

Yeah. And you know what? Nobody would know that kind of feeling for you, Alio, because they don't know what you've gone through raising your kids, being a [ __ ] husband. Like, and that's different for everybody. We don't know Bob's story, you know? We don't know you. I mean, my story, like, we all have something that connects us to what we're doing today and what drives us. Not everybody in this world has a drive, unfortunately. But that's not my job, Emilio's job, anyone else's job to find what your drive is. That's your job. That's a personal thing to figure out. We have a drive and our drive, dude, full send. Like, you can't stop a [ __ ] freight train like what we have, dude. It's not. We love it so much. It's not the best thing. The best thing any man could do is be an amazing example of hard work and determination, discipline to their to their children, uh to their family, to their friends. Uh, that's it, man. I mean, that's that's that's what I'm I'm about. I mean, impressing myself. You need to impress yourself as an individual as well. You need to love yourself. You need to make yourself happy every day.

Yeah. That's what it comes down to, man. If if you don't love yourself, man, it's it's going to be really hard to love anything else in this world. And I don't have much else to say, man. I commend all the hard workers out there, dude. You know what? As much as whatever [ __ ] narratives are painted from the bottom feeders, there are some hardworking individuals in this hobby. I see them in the chat. Shout out to KG. Shout out to Nixon. Shout out to anyone out there who's [ __ ] grinding, dude. From what I know, dude, KG's been doing this [ __ ] [ __ ] grinding on the weekly. Has not let off the gas for [ __ ] for as long as I known him, dude. Same with Nixon. Same with other people. So, shout out to [ __ ] who are putting in the work, dude. Goddamn.

I have one more thing to say for both of us. Call us anything but broke and lazy, baby. Hey, Berino Reptiles on IG. Just drop the mic after that. Berino Reptiles on IG. Go subscribe and also go to his Patreon, dude. If you really want to know the right business moves, where not to step in [ __ ] in this hobby, Berino Reptiles Patreon. Find the link description below. Give it up. It's a rap for Big E Top G. Ladies and gentlemen, later, bro. Thank you. Have a good night. Hey, that Hey, that's my friend. Hey, that's my dog right there. That's my boy Big E Top G. Hey, what a night. What a [ __ ] podcast. What an episode. I wanted all this, okay? Mainly because we should be excited. Let's let's bring the excitement about what we're doing. We're keeping cool reptiles, guys. What better hobby, you know what I mean? Shout out to people in the chats. This was a great episode. Before you guys leave, if you enjoyed this episode and you're not already, hit that subscribe button for your boy, man. Help me help me grow this even more organically. All right. And of of course, if you're looking for exclusive content, come join the Trap Talk Patreon family. First link in description below. Shout out to all the love and support, man. The chats, you guys are [ __ ] awesome tonight. And that really speaks for everything. All the support in the chat tonight really speaks volumes. You guys are amazing. So again, anyone in the chat who hasn't already, hit that like button. Let's get the likes up for this episode, especially if you feel like it was very impactful. Please check out all the sponsors in the description below. Have a good night. We'll catch you here Monday night for a new Breed on the Block recap. And I'm out.

Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors. Hi, I'm Devin. I'm Pereza. And we are Prague Motors. We are based in Czech Republic, a small country in the middle of Europe. We really love animals that revolve around multi-recessive projects and one of our very favorites is hypo. We're really looking forward to clutches that are coming this season and some of those are Hypo Clown, DG Clown, Hypo DG Clown, and one of our all-time favorites, Hypo Puzzle.

Hope you enjoyed the next episode on Trap Talk, the greatest reptile network in the world. If you guys want to see next level, cutting edge ball python projects, please make sure you head over to their Instagram to follow all their amazing work and head over to their website to see what they could possibly have available by heading over to progorphs.com. Thank you again, Devin and Theresa, for bringing some of the biggest heat worldwide in the ball python game. If you want to be organized, if you want to be cutting edge in the ball python game, then you don't want to miss this. Shout out to today's sponsor and that's Clutch. Number one ball python organization app in the game. No better place to start off than by using this app. Clutch is an organization app that helps you organize all your ball python projects. It also helps your peers and your fellow community members look at what you possibly have coming for the upcoming ball python season, what you have currently available on Morph Market. It's so awesome to be ahead of the game by using organization app like Clutch. Thank you so much the entire Clutch team, amazing team over at Clutch. If I were you, I would head over to Clutch's Instagram account. And I would also head over to their website, try it out, see how it works for you, but especially if you're just now coming into this before you build your reptile collection. I would do it organized and I would do it with Clutch. Thank you, Clutch, for being so amazing. Excited to hear what Clutch has to bring in the near future. Rapping is a sport.