Femininity. Femininity is almost an excuse for women to avoid accountability. Women control access to sex. Sex is the ultimate power, and women know this, and women abuse this cuz right now it's men competing for the women. All the dating advice online is all about what men need to do to get women. There are feminists exploiting those lonely men to try to sell them OnlyFans. And there are tradcons exploiting those lonely men to try to sell them marriage, which is an unfair deal. And there are dating coaches trying to exploit those lonely men to sell them courses and self-improvement. We all talk about the female entitlement problem. Women are entitled. Well, how do you address women's sense of entitlement without first addressing men's sense of obligation?

People will say that, you know, well, it's all natural and, you know, masculinity is a natural process. Well, then why are men shamed to be sculpted that way? Do we have to shame birds on how to fly? Female empowerment is all about liberation and choice, while men's empowerment is all about masculinity, duty, and sacrifice, which is actually the opposite of liberation and choice. How can what empowers one gender be the opposite of what empowers the other? So for women, it's more freedom, and for men, it's more duty and responsibility, and so what's going on here? You know, during the Vietnam War, you had women actually marching for, you know, men being sent off to die in war. I see. And now today it's like you're not a real man if you don't fight in war. Okay. Not only not only that, but I mean, look at the the male um deletion rate, right? And it's like, okay, so um why aren't women marching for those for those lives today?

What up, guys? Welcome to the Just Pearly Things YouTube channel, and welcome to the sitdown. Today I have John on the channel with me, the man, the myth, the legend behind the best questions on YouTube. Um, welcome to the show. Um, he is the guy behind the It's Complicated channel.

Hello, Pearl. How are you?

I'm good. How are you?

I'm great. Thank you for having me.

Thanks for coming on. So, I'm so curious, how do you come up with the questions?

Well, um, I guess you start to, you know, after a while you start to um notice that women will say one thing, and then what they do kind of doesn't always line up with that. And so, you start to see patterns, and then you start to see double standards in in behavior. And so, I would just look at what women would would say and then what they would do. Or, you know, when you look at a double standard, you know, you kind of like flip the genders and you say, well, wait a second, would this be okay if a man did it? And that's kind of the inception of how I guess a lot of it starts.

Did you notice this from a young age or like how like everyone always wonders like what's your origin story, you know, how did you find the red pill?

Um, well, I mean, I think that um a lot of especially, you know, men realize that once they get into the whole dating scene, they realize that it's not quite fight in their favor. You know, there's just different struggles that they go through. I'm sure women go through struggles as well, but um, you know, men are kind of expected to be the pursuers and the initiators, and then, you know, I mean, I some of the earliest questions that I I thought of was it's like, well, women would say that they want a nice guy, but then they continually go for these bad boys who would kind of, you know, f them over and stuff. So, it's like, you know, do women even know what they want? And you know, I would start to hear other, you know, people say things like, you know, women are emotional, and um and then I just started to dive a little bit deeper and say, well, you know, what's really going on here? And I just figured, okay, let me just see, you know, what women say when I try to challenge them on on why they kind of believe what they believe.

And so when you started doing the interviews, like what were some of the biggest um I guess what were the most common answers that you got where women's actions didn't match what they were doing.

Um, I think it really came down to the fact that uh, you know, they would I mean, obviously when they would say they want a guy, you know, who's who's a gentleman and a nice guy, and then you would just kind of see how they would go for these guys who don't really care about them. Um, and it's like, well, you know, you want you want this attention from guys, but then it's like, but then it's not quite it's like you want a certain outcome. Uh, I don't know. Like, I just noticed that most of like the dating advice that men would get was always about like, you know, this is what you're supposed to do, but it was never about like what are women supposed to do? You know what I mean? So, it was just like there was a burden of performance for men, but not for women.

Yeah. And so at some point, you know, you you just you just wonder like what are women complaining about? Like why why is the burden always on men? Why are men always expected to change? And then at one point I was almost just trying to figure out like is dating harder for men or for women? And you know, after all of this red pill content, I think we can pretty much all, you know, mutually agree and come to a consensus on the fact that dating is just much much harder for men based on just the male loneliness epidemic, based on, you know, the the fact that uh 80% of men are viewed as unattractive according to, you know, the the majority of women. So, it's like, well, why why is that? What's going on in our in our society right now?

And have you had women because I've been attacked a few times. Not often. I mean, to be I'm probably over-exaggerating, but it was like this fat chick one time, and she just was trying to go, you know, the whale attack.

Yeah, the whale attack. But I was just curious, has that ever happened to you where like people get angry and they try to cuz I mean it can be dangerous sometimes doing street interviews, especially you're going out at night, there's drunk people.

Oh yeah. I know. I've seen uh episodes of you, and I was actually concerned for your safety where I've seen, you know, some people get triggered. I think uh um I don't know it was just something about like a girl like stole your sign or something like that or I forget exactly what what clip it was. It was a while back. But um see for me, I don't just question feminists. I will question uh tradcons. I will question I'll question dating coaches and stuff, right? And some people, I mean, if you believe in something that's fine. I just would like to understand why. But some people can't even defend why they believe what they believe. And the minute that their ideology is is challenged, they sometimes they go kooey. They go, you know, they get triggered.

Um, I mean, I I was at a uh a convention where I had a cowboy who basically said, "Look, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. You know, you want to know my my opinions." And I said, "Whoa, whoa, you know, let's lower the temperature here. I'm just trying to understand." And so, um, I think anybody can get can get triggered, you know, but I don't think there's any uh thing in this world that's not subject to question. So, that's

Yeah, cuz you do a really good job like you don't raise your voice really. You don't like you do a very good job of being like even keel when you and I don't always do that because they start to like if they say something dumb, I want to tell them, right? But you you do such a good job of not directly telling them, but like you just like trap them with another question.

I noticed that once once people start to get emotional, uh then you know then logic kind of goes out the window. And so I think that as long as you can kind of just keep it where you know everybody is calm uh and you're just trying to understand what's going on, I think that you can it's almost like in some cases, you know, if you're trying to talk to like a mob mentality um, you know what I mean? It's just people are trying to antagonize people; you're not going to come up with anything productive, but if you kind of have like a one-on-one conversation, you say, well, let's let's dive into this a little bit deeper, what what is actually going on, what is the thought process behind why you believe what you believe. Is it something you've learned from your experience or something you were told? And so you start to and a lot of times people start to think about this stuff and they say that's a really good question.

I bet you get that a lot.

Yes. Like that's got to be You could do like a compilation of that's a really good question.

I actually did do that.

Oh, did you?

Yeah. Early on. But yes. Yes. So um like did you go to law school or something? What was your background before? Cuz you sound almost like a lawyer when you do it.

I mean much more like even keel obviously, but the way you ask questions, it people have uh multiple times said in my comment section that I should have been a lawyer. Um, but I think what happens is you start to notice patterns, and when I interview people um after a while you start to hear you know the same things, and you can almost predict what they're going to say. If I ask them this question and we agree on this premise, then it's almost like a game of chess. Sometimes, you know, you can make the argument like I'm playing chess or playing checkers because I'm a couple moves ahead of them because I know what most people are going to say. They might, you know, I'll ask them one question; it's either going to be this answer or this answer. So then if we go to, you know, this answer then then, you know, and it goes goes down a chain of uh a logic chain of questions.

So, you've recently had um a video on the TradCons that I really liked. Um, I can't remember the title off the top of my head, but it was like the last month.

Okay. Um do you know which one I'm talking about?

It's not I mean I've done a video literally with the title TradCons.

Oh, that might have been the title. But I but I've done several episodes on the TradCons. And and one thing just real quick that I just wanted to just um uh uh I think one criticism I have of the manosphere just as a whole is that I think that most people tend to focus on feminism as the only problem, and that's one thing I really appreciate about your channel is the fact that you are willing to call out and challenge tradcons. Um, there have been uh recently in the space uh some other people who have called out you know tradcons as covert feminists, and so I think that there needs to be a lot more um uh focus on that, but but just going back to what you were saying uh uh as far as the episode was there anything in particular?

Well, I just was curious on your thoughts on the Daily Wire like there, you know, there the TRC con idea that men need to get married to man up and you know

Well, well, okay. Um, definitely when I've seen you call out the TradCons, usually uh you'll call it like I I love the uh the interview that you did with with Michael Nolles, uh where you talked about, you know, marriage and it not being, you know, a good deal for men. And um in my last episode about the dowy, I actually used a clip of that um where he basically said, you know, that if you get a prenup, it invalidates the sacrament and all that other stuff. But um not only do we talk about um how the tradons view marriage and you know they're not really doing enough as we would all like to see them kind of you know reform the laws and the family courts and remove the liabilities when it comes to uh marriage but also just how they view masculinity. How you know being a man is all about s uh protect provide sacrifice serve don't complain. Um, and so the way that masculinity is being defined, I think is a big problem. And you know, one of the questions that I want to ask at some point, uh, coming up is, do you think men are smart enough to realize that masculinity is the first thing that anyone will attack when they want to control men?

That's a real I just did it. That's a really good question.

It's complicated.

Yeah. What do you think the answer is? Do you think men do you think men because when I'm when I hear that question my mind goes two ways. One way is I've seen men take some really really bad deals in my lifetime. But I don't I think social media also has opened the floodgates where women used to be a lot more deceptive and they can't be.

Mhm. Um like you know I see like on Tik Tok and stuff women getting like ratioed when they tell like a abuse story or do you know what I mean? Like and that just never used to happen like 10 years ago. So So or um men you know realizing that they're the bailout guy where I don't like 10 years ago they just kind of fell for it because we didn't have all this media. Um that's my initial thought but I don't have an answer. So I'm curious what you think.

Well, like okay, if I had to answer my own question, I would say that um you know, so so masculinity is almost like this this presscripted idea, this identity that men have to follow um where um I guess you um like okay, you know, man up and get married or you know, okay, if you're uh if you don't do A, B, and C, you're not a real man. So masculinity is also the first thing that's promoted when they want to control men. And I think that um you know you see trons doing this. You even see some red pillars doing this. They will say things like uh you know you know oh you're you've got really feminine energy right now or you're a beta male or you're a s or you're a weak man or you're gay. First thing a and I think that the strongest men are the ones who don't fall fall prey to that.

Um, even following up in that in that logic train, I was going to say, um, do you think it's true that, uh, our society is more willing to accept gay men than it will accept straight men who don't meet masculinity standards?

Oh my gosh, that's such I Yeah, I think you're right. Like, they're more willing to accept gay men than Yeah. So then why do we see gay men as more oppressed than straight men when straight men can't even be themselves without following this masculine script?

Have you done a video with that one yet?

That's coming up.

Okay. That was like that that is a great line of questioning. Wow. Um no cuz you're totally right. Like people will shame I mean I even use the simp one. I can't help it. Uh yeah, but I mean I I think that uh it's it's all about, about, you know, that's just you see it everywhere on social media. Women do it. Uh tradons do it. Some red pillars do it. It's like it's like this is what a real man is supposed to be. And I'm saying, well, why? why?

Another line of questioning that I've used in in a in a past episode was when we talk about what empowers men and what empowers women. Why is female empowerment all about liberation and choice while men's empowerment is all about masculinity, duty, and sacrifice, which is actually the opposite of liberation and choice? How can what empowers one gender be the opposite of what empowers the other? So for women, it's more freedom, and for men, it's more duty and responsibility. And so what's going on here, you know?

So what is your goal with your content? Do you have like um an end goal that you're hoping to achieve or uh I'm just kind of curious what uh like in five years you're hoping to get?

I think that we need to have more honest conversations about what masculinity truly means, what what it means to be a man, what the expectations are of women, what the expectations are of society. Um, I think that what's happening right now is, um, you know, are we going to accept a world of double standards or are we going to try to, you know, level the playing field and actually have equality? Now, what's happening is a lot of times people say, well, men and women can't be equal because we're not the same. But I don't think that's necessarily true because nobody in our society is truly the same, but we, you know, different races aren't the same, but we should all have equal rights under the law. We have equal justice. So, I think that, you know, just to say that men and women, you know, should there be double standards just because we're not the same? I mean, I understand that, you know, we have different strengths and we have different weaknesses, but I think that um you know, to have these these very strict roles is a very uh is a very kind of a strange idea in a society where the laws aren't the same, the technology is different, we're just it's a completely different culture. And you know, uh, I think that another a question I wanted to ask you, actually, I'll I'll I'll throw it back at you. Um, if you had to choose, what would you rather see? Would you rather see women go back to the way they were before feminism, or would you rather see men liberated from their masculine role?

I I would rather um I think the only solution to feminism is more feminism. So, I So, so I only think like when women start getting the same sentences as men that they might stop like hitting them for example, right? When they actually start being put in jail or, you know, women with the right to vote when they start actually having consequences for what we vote for instead of being bailed out. Um, that's more what I would like to see. I'd like to see more fair laws where we're actually equal under the law.

Okay. Well, for example, um when we talk about uh false uh accusations, right? I've heard a lot of people um you know, suggest the idea that there should be an equal punishment for a false accusation as if you know, you were convicted of that accusation. But obviously, yeah, we need to have more accountability um or, you know, equal accountability, I guess, for these things because you know, if if if women don't have skin in the game, there's no incentive.

Correct.

Yeah. So, I think that um it it comes down to the fact that uh I think, you know, I don't know if it's necessarily, you know, it's going to be a combination of asking more of women and maybe slightly less of men. And also, women are having like I'm one of 10 kids. We're having like one and a half. Like, I don't know if that's enough to be a housewife.

Well, like one kid, you could go like be a teacher or something.

Well, I mean, is it is it I read a comment this morning where someone said, "Is it is it surprising for women to expect women to want to have children when women are now expected to be in the workforce and providing for even for themselves?"

Well, yeah, but the average is 1.5.

Yeah. So, to me, I don't I mean, men still want to have kids even though they have to work, right?

It's true. You know, Yeah. So I don't I just don't think women want to be mothers as much as we originally thought cuz if we wanted to we would have.

So So how do you respond then when people say that you know women naturally want to be that way? Like in other words, if it was natural, why did it change?

I don't think it was, and the reason you know what made me come to this conclusion. So, it was um I couldn't believe how mad women got over abortion when I like it was like that was the most visceral when I would debate women where they would just get so angry, and I'm like, why are you so angry over just a difference in opinion? Um, and I used to fight really hard cuz um my parents like adopted kid and so pro-life was just something I kind

Of grew up with. Mhm. Um, but then I just realized that the infant mortality rate is very similar to the abortion rate today. Wow. So that leads—I don't have proof or evidence of this, but just anecdotally, anecdotally arguing with women and seeing how much they just fight to what I would view as abort their children, kill their children—I think it's always been like this. I think it's like now that social media is here, we have like we can see what women actually are. It's well, it's—You disagree or agree?

Well, I—I think that uh, yeah, I mean, I can see that, but I also think that um, as as far as women wanting to be able to um, it just comes down to the fact that women want to be able to have the choice to do that. I mean, obviously, I think that uh uh, like I used to always kind of wonder about this. It's like, okay, well, the women who are having abortions, do we really want those women reproducing anyway and stuff? Because they're probably just going to raise more, you know, male feminist children and stuff, I guess. So, I mean, I just—I just think it's useless to fight over it. Like, they'll just—they'll die. Like, I think the pro-life movement, like, yeah, they got Roe versus Wade, but if you think Plan B is an abortion, which they do, I mean, those are like through the roof. Yeah. So, I—I just don't see it going anywhere in—in my lifetime. But it would be interesting to—like I think men—we've talked about this—but how men should be able to opt out of child support if women can opt out of motherhood. Like, and that's what I mean, the financial abortion.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I mean. I think the solution to feminism is more feminism. Like, we asked to be free. Here you go.

Well, one of the things that I was uh, looking into was the idea of uh, back in the 70s, and I mean I'm sure you've heard of Warren Farrell for example, right? He was uh, kind of like the father—

Yeah, I met him.

Yeah. The father of—of uh, this men's liberation movement um, where basically, you know, in the 70s they were trying to, you know, liberate women, but then they were also trying to liberate men. There's actually a famous black and white photo on the internet um, of a protest where it said, you know, "Let's share custody," and they wanted mandatory 50-50 physical custody and they also wanted uh, men to be viewed as more than just success objects. Meanwhile, today we're promoting the very opposite of that. We're saying that uh, men should be success objects. And so I think that um, maybe revisiting that idea of maybe gender roles can be more fluid or more of a choice as opposed—as opposed to more of an expectation.

Um, so what would that look like to you? So like, you know, relationship beginning to end, how would it go?

Well, I mean, I think that uh um, you know, there are plenty of things that women are capable of that they're not doing just because they believe that that's a man's job. You know, like anything women don't want to do is automatically labeled masculinity, right?

That's such a good point. I mean, women—women are—are perfectly capable of approaching men for business, but they won't approach men for relationships.

For relationships. No, that's so true. And it's crazy because if women approach men, they're far more likely to have success than if men approach women. Plus, women don't like being approached by the men that they're—that they don't like. So, it would kind of—

So, you'd like to see women approach men.

Oh, absolutely. I think that that would—that would definitely—but you know, a lot of people will say, "Oh, but that, you know, the man is supposed to lead," and it's like, well, you know, the women control the dating market, but the men are somehow the leaders. And it's kind of a weird, you know, they kind of did that in Bumble. Like, now that everything's digital, do you think that works?

Of course not. Because what does—when a woman messages you on Bumble, what's—what's her message?

Hey.

Yeah. That's all they say. They say, "Hey," and nothing else. And then they still expect the man to kind of take over. In fact, I even asked a question about this similar. I said, "Okay, if men are expected to protect women because they're physically stronger, why can't women pay all the bills? Why are both duties assigned to the men?" So, there are plenty of, you know, I mean, because we still have this—this idea, you know, his money is—is our money and, you know, her money is her money. And I'm saying, okay, well then what are women working for? You know what I mean? So there's plenty of things that women are capable of and it's like, okay, well then step—step up and prove it. But we're always expecting the men to step up to delusional standards. Men have more—we're asking more of men than has ever been asked in history.

And the other thing too is women's money is way easier to get. It is far easier to make money as a woman because like at 22 you could go be like a pharmacy. Like there are girls from my school that went and made six figures right out of college as a pharmaceutical sales rep. How long would that take a guy to do? Well, women are getting, you know, they have female-only scholarships. Uh, women are getting uh, obviously there was all the DEI stuff. I don't know how that's changing now uh, with the new uh, administration. Uh, you also have the, you know, I mean women can—they always have a bailout. They could do OnlyFans if they want to. Um, they uh—I mean women, you know, female bartenders, female hostesses, uh um, you know, cocktail waitresses in Vegas. I mean, they make a lot of money just because they can use their looks to open a lot of doors.

Is that a thing here? I've heard that they—there's like in Vegas really hot like broke guys that they're—that they just live off of these bottle girls. Is that a thing?

Uh, I—I don't know. It's—it's—it's possible. I mean, I'm sure that—

But you do interviews all the time. You never run into anything like that.

Uh, not so much, but that would be a good question. Like maybe just kind of find out like, yeah, do you got some uh, you know, some Chad living with you who uh—I mean—I mean look, I've heard some women saying, you know, oh, you know, I've—I've taken care of men before, but I mean, are women going to take those men seriously for a relationship or are they just looking for an F-boy? You know what I mean? So yeah, there was a guy I knew in London and that was his play is he went and got really jacked and he would just hit on like 32-year-old lawyers and live for free.

Yeah.

In London. Well, that's the thing also. It's—it's kind of like, you know,

Yeah.

He—he kind of reversed the system where he's like, I'm just going to go to the gym. It's easier than getting a job.

Yeah. Well, well, well, well, it's funny, too, because uh, it was kind of like I remember when I was at the uh, the uh, the AV Awards and I was interviewing the sex workers, um, I asked a question about uh, if a uh, unwanted pregnancy happened during the shooting of—of a professional scene because obviously sex work is filmed without condoms, um, then, you know, is there anything that the man can do to avoid being held responsible for child support? And um, this uh, woman said to me, "Well, you know, if—if I get pregnant, then I'm definitely going after that man for child support." And I said, "Well, actually, since sex worker, female sex workers are getting paid more than male sex workers, wouldn't you be the one responsible to pay child support?"

What'd she say?

Um, actually, well, it's unfortunate because I didn't think of that at—at the time. I thought of that after the fact. So, that's the thing. Sometimes, um, you know, follow-up questions will come a little bit late, like, you know, I said, "Oh, I should have said this or should have said that." But um, but I did kind of uh—I don't know. It's just I think that um, even when I'm doing like street interviews sometimes it's like so noisy. I mean just like this is one of the noisiest cities. I mean, I'm out on the Strip, you know, on, you know, a Friday or Saturday night and you've got motorcycles and helicopters and sometimes people are like right in front of your face and I can't hear what they're saying. And so there's times where I want to follow up or sometimes I think of, you know, a good follow-up that I could say later. And so, you know, it's just uh, you know, I'm an evolving creator just like you are and stuff. I'm learning new things, you know, as I grow. If you look at my earliest stuff, I'm thinking, "Oh, I could have said this." And, you know, so we're all learning.

So, okay. So, you'd like to see women approach men—like what other masculine like duties would you say? What would you like men to be like? The idea that—the idea that men are expected to be the sole providers or that, you know, or just this—this notion that, you know, I mean, you know, that men have to have all this money. I mean, who's advocating for the average man? Do we want to live in a society where only the top 10, 20% of men get all the women and then the bottom 80% of men are all just celibate? And then what's going to be the incentive for them to want to do—do anything? And then we're sitting here and we're saying, you know, oh well, men are weak because they want to stay home and play video games? And it's like, well, what should they do? Go out and be in the social scene and—and get, you know, abused and get ripped off? So, I think that what's happening is I almost believe that the male loneliness epidemic might be by design because I think that, you know, the whole idea that sex sells and um, I think kind of like everyone's exploiting men now. Everyone's exploiting that problem. I think that um, I think that there are feminists exploiting those lonely men to try to sell them OnlyFans and there are tradcons exploiting those lonely men to try to sell them marriage which is an unfair deal and there are dating coaches trying to exploit those lonely men to sell them courses and self-improvement.

So, I guess how would that—I'm just trying to think of a world like—do you think that's even possible where—where um, men—like women are really going to approach men—like you know, I'm not—I'm not saying it—it wouldn't be nice. I'm just wondering if you think—or that like—

Yeah. Go ahead.

I—I think what happens is—is uh, necessity is the mother of invention. People do what they have to do. Obviously, I think that that the—you know, the reason a lot of men simp is because they kind of have to because men, you know, you ever hear the expression all men pay. It's like—it's like even if you're not paying with your money, you pay with your money, energy, attention, and time. You—men have to earn it. So, it's kind of like men just have to play the game, and women are the ones who make the rules. And so what ends up happening is um, I think that it just comes down to a question of who has the leverage. Right now women control access to sex. Sex is the ultimate power and women know this and women abuse this and so men are basically stuck—you know—I mean men have a higher biological need for sex than women. I think men actually—like sex is a need for—for most men. And so, um, I think that in order to kind of like level the playing field, I mean, I'm not ne—necessarily saying like, you know, women have to approach men, but in other words, I believe that women are coming from an abundance mindset. Men are coming from a scarcity mindset. Of course, unless you're like that top, you know, 10% man who has women approaching you. And, and the whole idea of women approaching is kind of not that far-fetched because a lot of these dating coaches want to sculpt men to become that super high-value men that women chase. So women will chase the minority of men but men are chasing the majority of women. So I think what has to happen is there has to be some kind of shift in—in leverage. And I think a big thing that would help that is men being given more access to—more sexual access. In other words, I think what's happening right now is everyone's telling men step up and pay a higher price to the point where they're overpaying. I think what we need to focus on is—I think we need to figure out ways to lower the price. Um, I've done several episodes on—I think that—that legalization of prostitution. I know it's a very uh, controversial topic. Not a lot of people talk about it, but I think if prostitution was safe and regulated—prostitution, I'm not talking about street walkers. I'm talking about if we had brothels and men could go get sex anytime they wanted. I think that women would have to be forced to bring more to the table because sex wouldn't be enough.

Do you see that in Vegas? Because isn't it semi-legal here?

Um, not necessarily. It's legal in Pahrump, I believe, or in Nye County. Uh, it's like a—I think it's like a 2-hour drive away, but it's not—it's not convenient. It's not affordable. Most people can't afford, you know, a $300 to $500, you know what I mean? um, what we have right now is almost worse than prostitution because I think men are paying for the opportunity to maybe get it but they're not actually getting it. Um, and so I think, you know—I mean, I've even asked the question, you know, if men could get sex anytime they want—almost like go to a massage parlor or almost like we have dispensaries for—

Yeah.

You know—um, I think that—that if that was available to men, I think they wouldn't—they wouldn't feel the need to uh, to overpay. They would be more selective because they would, you know, and I think there would be no reason to be with a woman other than love. And I—I could actually see that potentially happening.

Could you?

Well, I mean, prostitution getting—Why not in Vegas? I mean, makes the most sense here to start with, but um, I don't know. I mean, it's—it's—it might be an unfortunate reality that we're headed towards, but I know that tradcons definitely wouldn't like that because it promotes degeneracy according to their—

Yeah.

But if they cared about degeneracy, they would promote young marriage and they don't.

Well, yeah. Like if they—if cuz like sex is a need and people are going to have sex with somebody. So if you're not promoting people to get married at—like when does the sex drive start? Like I don't even want to say it because we're not—like it's kind of uncomfortable and we're on YouTube, but it's like—it's pretty young. So, like if we're having sex like urges from the time you're 14, 15, 16 years old, like, you know, even at 22, most people aren't going to be virgins if they have the choice. Yeah. So, I'm like, unless you're promoting a young marriage, like young marriage, what are people going to do about their sex drives? I was just on a Christian show like 5 days ago and I was—it just premiered today actually and I was arguing with the guys and saying that sex was a need for men and that if Christians like cared about degeneracy they would push young marriage like 18. Someone told me also that uh—I think um, you know, could—could that possibly even keep marriages—keep marriages together? I mean, is it—it's someone said something about like—I think it was in Japan where—where married men will go off and go see, you know, concubines or whatever it is, you know, kind of on the side and the wives just don't want to hear about it. Um, but I'm not sure. I mean, it's, you know, should men be stuck in a—a dead bedroom marriage? You know what I mean? Because I mean obviously when we talk about marriages a lot of times men are hostages within their own marriage and you know women are paid to leave and men, you know, it's cheaper to keep her and stuff.

Well, I'm not saying that like guys, especially in this climate, should get married at 18. But I'm saying if the conservatives cared about degeneracy, they'd push it, right? Because then that problem's solved.

Yeah. I—I—I kind of uh, had this question about that. I said, why is it that anything feminists don't like, they label misogyny, and anything that uh, tradcons don't like, they label degeneracy?

Oh, wow. That's a good question. That's a good question. So, it's just two competing ideologies, you—

So, how would you like to see the dating process go—like in your—I mean this is just a dream world, right?—or um—

Well, uh, I would say that—that um, you know, ideally, you know, if you could go and, you know, just approach the woman that you want and she's, you know, receptive and she's, you know, like, you know, not like, "Oh, why are you talking to me?"

Sorry. Sorry. I meant like in—like the women approach the men and then what?

Sorry. In this—like continuing that thought process.

Well, uh, just uh, women approach men and just uh—I think that um, it uh—like women pay for dates.

Why not?

Yeah. Okay. Why not? Yeah. I've said that before. Yeah. I—I don't see any reason why not. What—What is the point of women having money? Um, but I think in my experience, relationships usually work the best when the woman likes the man more than he likes her because then she's willing to lower some of her standards and—and actually have some skin in the game and invest and be willing to take some risks. But right now, I think that women just have, you know, I mean, if we're talking about, you know, average men, women have all the choice, all the options, all the leverage. So, it's almost like you need to give men more options and then women have to—because right now it's men competing for the women. All the dating advice online is all about what men need to do to get women. Women are the prize and—and then when you look at like same-sex relationships, it's like, you know, do women need to have confidence and game to approach other women? It's—it's so much more balanced. But, you know, it's like uh—or I think—when you start to look at same-sex couples and how that dynamic works, it's like when women date women, who's responsible for paying all the bills? But as soon as a man is involved, now he's got to do all the work. Why? Because he's got to follow the masculine script. That's—anything women don't want to do is labeled masculinity. So, it's a way for—femininity—femininity is almost an excuse for women to avoid accountability.

Accountability.

Okay. Can—can you give me an example?

Um, when you have uh, women say, "I want a strong masculine man to put me in my feminine," it basically just uh—does a—does a man need a soft feminine woman to put a—put her in—put him in his masculine. You know what I mean? It's like for—for women, femininity is conditional. For men, masculine—like it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind, but it's a man's duty to be consistent. So, it's just all about, you know, men are held to a standard. We all talk about the female entitlement problem. Women are entitled. Well, how do you address women's sense of entitlement without first addressing men's sense of obligation? People will say that, you know, well, it's all natural and you know, masculinity is a natural process. Well, then why are men shamed to be sculpted that way? Do we have to shame birds on how to fly? They, you know, there's—there might be a degree of that that's natural, but I think that the way that—I think that masculinity is almost being hijacked and it's kind of being defined as, you know, you've got to check all these boxes. And I think that, you know, it wasn't always this way throughout history. And so, you know, we have to kind of compare how we got—how we got to, you know, where we are currently in the uh—in the dating market.

So what do you think is different today than—like—sorry, what part do you mean it wasn't this way for all of history because wouldn't you say for most of history men like were the head of their household—like they did provide to some extent—I know there was—

The dowry that women brought, but it came from her dad, not her right. Um, well, like, uh, okay, let's let's go back to like maybe the 1970s. I wasn't necessarily alive then, but I'm saying if you talk about, you know, back then, it was, you know, "make love not war," or um, I think that we were kind of like a little bit more um uh headed towards equality uh uh back then. I think that uh okay, look at it this way. You had during the Vietnam War, you had women actually marching for, you know, men being sent off to die in war.

Oh, I see. And now today, it's like you're not a real man if you don't fight in war. Okay, not only not only that, but I mean look at the the male um deletion rate, right? And it's like, okay, so um why aren't women marching for those for those lives today?

Yeah. You could, you didn't they do like a million man march a while ago?

You're talking about like in the 90s?

I think that Yeah, I know. I know. That's I was thinking like it was in the n like no time recently.

Yeah. I don't think that I think that was more uh uh due to um uh police brutality and you know and racism and stuff like that. I think it had more to do with that than it had to do with just kind of like, you know

Oh, really? As far as I remember, I think it had something to do with like the Rodney King.

Oh, I I totally thought it was for me. I don't know. I wasn't alive or if I was I was like five.

So, well, we're trying to, like I said, we're trying to um do forensic investigations on, you know, what happened in the past and, you know, how it correlates in a modern context. Yeah. And that's a tough thing. Women are so good at rewriting history, too. So you have to like sift through so many historical documents to even find like the like um I just had this is Shaw on the channel and he was um talking about the dowry in depth and I couldn't believe like why don't conservatives talk about that.

Yeah. I mean exactly and uh so just just more people should ask like what is a dowry? And uh I just did an episode on this um inspired kind of like by what he was talking about. He actually did a a fantastic conversation with Paul Elum about this, bringing this up. And so it's like, okay, when you think about it, you know, some of the most masculine men throughout history, like, you know, Julius Caesar and uh King Henry VIII, they took dowries. And yet today, we're being told that you're not a real man unless you pay 100% of the bills to put the woman in her feminine. So when you talk about rewriting history, this idea that, you know, men just have to this is the way it's supposed to be and it couldn't possibly be any other way, even though when you look back in history, it wasn't always that way. So why are we conveniently ignoring those those arguments?

So, I I want to see more kind of people being challenged on what they're saying. And not just the feminists, but I want to see, you know, a lot of these influencers and masculinity coaches and pickup artists and stuff like that. I want to see them all get challenged because at the end of the day, we're all just searching for truth. But I don't like like when I ask questions, I'm not necessarily trying to tell people what to think. I just want them to think for themselves. And I'm trying to extract the truth. And sometimes I have a perception of what I think the truth is. But by no means am I saying I have all the answers. I'm just, you know, go ahead and change my mind. Let's let's try to figure this out. But, you know, these are real issues and these are real problems and we want to have real solutions and not just sit here and, you know, try to sell people a fantasy that is unattainable.

So, how would you how do you think child care should go? So like you get past you go 50/50 on the relationship now you're both working the kids under three you need someone to watch them who does it?

Well, I mean, I know there's the with the tender years doctrine and, you know, people typically go to the idea that women are better. Um, I don't think that.

So, well, I mean, obviously, if women are having abortions and stuff, I mean, you know, do they really um I'm just curious because you were saying you'd like to see um you'd like to see some of the masculine duties be challenged. And so, I was just curious how you would see the like young years of a kid going.

I think uh well I think that that men can be good fathers if uh you know it really just comes down to who has the opportunity to be um to to who has the opportunity to be present who wants to be present and who wants to you know have uh um a strong connection with their children. I I haven't really thought that much about it to be honest. I think that that it's something that uh like someone said to me, "Okay, who would you trust uh running a daycare center? Bunch of women or a bunch of men, right?" And automatically most people assume that, you know, I would leave my child with a bunch of women instead of a bunch of men, you know?

Yeah. I'd trust the men more really.

Okay. Look, just because I've looked at like child abuse stats, like women are more violent towards kids.

Okay. Well, like I said, that uh that's something that obviously, you know, should be looked at more. So, yeah. Okay. I was just curious because it's like under five who like I mean once they're in preschool and up it's like a different story where both parents can work but I think one parent has to you know I'm not saying it should be the man or the woman but I was just kind of curious.

Well, I've had a lot of women say things like, you know, now that women are expected to uh be breadwinners along with the men, um you know, women almost feel like, oh, well, you know, we have to, you know, uh um uh be the homemaker, the caretaker, and uh and also make money, and the men are just, you know, the breadwinners. So, the men need to step up more and help us more around the house. I think kind of where we're headed is kind of everyone's kind of going to be expected to do everything. Um, but it just depends on what's more convenient. Obviously, if a woman is pregnant, then it makes sense for the man to definitely step up and, you know, help her. But at some point, my mom ran a marathon 6 months pregnant.

I think they overexaggerated.

Well, I mean to to a degree, but I'm saying that obviously um you know uh someone wrote a really excellent comment that I you know I mean I learned more things from my comments as well, but someone wrote that um a uh an employer is going to basically expect a woman to get back to work after 12 weeks. So at some point, you know, why can't a husband do that? Because women, what's the uh the question I had is like why are women more willing to submit to their employer than they're going to submit to their husband and children?

So, Mhm. So, what do you think? Um, you mentioned that you'd like to see some things change in the space. Um, what are they?

There's too much blame on men. And I think there's too much focus on masculinity and not enough focus on the misandry. And whenever we do talk about misandry, we only talk about the misandry that comes from women. We don't talk about the misandry that comes from other men. We look at shaming women as hate, but when we shame men, it's motivation. And I think, why aren't they both hate? Why why why have we come to assess the average man as unacceptable and he has to change and improve? What's what's wrong? I mean, you know, I I get it. Like, I'm not against the idea of self-improvement. I'm not telling men like be a loser and don't ever, you know, achieve anything. But, you know, sometimes like men have a right to enjoy life.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and sometimes, I mean, I see rants online from guys who are good-looking guys and shouldn't even have a problem and they're exhausted. They they run into burnout because they feel like, you know, it's it's never going to be enough. And so, um, and and the other thing is it's like there's this idea that just because, you know, men are appreciated, somehow that validates a lot of the sacrifices that men are expected to make. And I think that, you know, we can't just um like like why would women appreciate the sacrifices that men make if they're just going to continue making those sacrifices. So I think that either women have to have a duty or neither one of them have to have a duty or something like that. But it's the double standards in our society that persist that you know have to change. Um and what's interesting is it's like well why why does the manosphere complain about double standards but then just say well men and women are different. Well, then so are you saying double standards are okay? So there's there's a lot of contradictions I see in the manosphere that I'd like to challenge them on, but then if I call out the manosphere for some inconsistencies, then they're going to label me a feminist and say I'm clearly not a feminist.

Have you done a back and forth with Myin ever? Have you ever like done a debate?

I would love to. I think he would I think he'd maybe do it. It would I would love to watch it just as a viewer cuz I know he does a lot with his call-in shows where he tells them to like like I watched this one one and I like this is not me throwing shot at him. I like Myin. He's a good guy. But I saw him like do a call-in show where where um what was it? He had a couple on the show and they both made money and he basically told like the girl was a little bit ahead in her career because she was like military or something.

Okay. Um and he was telling the guy that he wasn't doing enough. But I was looking at her I'm like she's fat.

Yeah. Like Like you was you was like I'm like she's got to get on the tread, you know what I mean? Before we're going to say she deserves a a pro like you know what I mean? I'm like, she's got to be in shape to at least like

Well, well, that that's the thing when you when you're talking about all the expectations placed on men, you know, you got to you got to be jacked and you got to be six feet tall and six figures and and it's like women can't even do the bare minimum and just be, you know, like eat less. We don't even have to work out. We just have to eat less, right? Is it harder to grow muscles or just not overeat? Or is it harder to lose lose weight or gain height? You know what I mean? So, so there are things that men are shamed for that we can't even control. Women have more control over the things that, you know, that we shame them for. I mean, obviously, when it comes to like men being shamed for being incels and women being shamed for being [ __ ] women control their body count way more than most men do because women are the control axis. Yeah. The gatekeepers and stuff. So, so um but as far as um the other thing also I think that that there's this concept going around the manosphere called hofflation, right? Men have to work men today have to work five times harder than their grandfathers did. for women 20 times worse than their grandmother what their grandmothers were. And yet, if we're telling men that women have these delusional expectations, now go out and fulfill those delusional expectations, are we not feeding the very hopeflation problem that we're complaining about?

Yeah. I just think there's always going to be guys that are like, "That's my only choice." Do you know what I mean? I'm not I'm not saying they should or they shouldn't. I'm really not here to tell guys how to date. I don't I've never dated women, so I just don't have an opinion on like that. Uh but I just, you know, like I've interviewed guys where they're just like like I had a friend in London. I had never met him. I'd never he had never had a girlfriend that like expected him to not cheat. Like it was always a one-sided open thing. And talking him out of like because he kind of did all the stuff like he got the muscles. He was a really success. I'm not I'm not going to say the industry, but he was very like good in his field. And I'm like, if if you would tell him, well, you're feeding women's delusional expect. He would say, I don't care. Like, I have my five women. I don't like I do not care. And like the way he would I just I know him. So, he what he would say is he'd say something like, "Well, then why don't like I did all this work. Why didn't you do all this work?" Right? Um, I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but I'm just curious how you would respond to something like that.

I mean, typically, you know, when the man does the work, it's it's the, you know, the mindset where why does a society that tells a man he doesn't deserve a woman when he's broke have any right to tell that man he only deserves one woman when he's rich. So, the man is going to say, "Well, I've done the work. Now, I'm a high status, high value man. Now, I'm going to exercise my options." And so are women willing to, you know, share those men or are they willing to settle for more average men if they want the loyalty? So it's kind of, you know, I saw this guy, dude be like I like he would bring like two like two girls that he was like hooking up with to a party. He just did not care. He's like, "Leave me alone."

Well, that's what I'm saying. What I think that that modern women today are are almost like concert groupies. They just want to be with a rock star or they want to, you know what I mean? They want to be that trophy, that arm candy and stuff, you know?

I will say though, I used to think the money mattered more to women than it does. does. I've seen a lot of women from the show just sleep with like bar like guys in certain positions. Like they really like bartenders. Like, aren't club promoters broke? And they're always

Yeah. Well, I mean, so they'll go for a broke Chad basically. Someone who's just a good

Yeah. Or just in the right like comedians. They're kind like a lot of them aren't like super good-looking, but they're funny.

Yeah. You know, I was wondering about that also. It's kind of like when you look at like, you know, the sexiest men alive, you know, were were, you know, you know, famous comedians on there and stuff or, you know, I don't know. But, you know, obviously they've they've always said that, you know, women love, you know, men who make them laugh. So, I just this reminds me of something I saw where it was like this guy was at a party and he was getting no attention from women and he was like, screw this. So he went and got his guitar and came back.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, yeah. And I'm not saying it's right, but I'm like the guys that like figure out a cheat code. I'm like, you're not going to talk them out of like five women. Good luck.

Yeah. But I mean, but but you know, then you talk to these guys who are like passport bros and you know, they go overseas and then what I call passport bros is almost like it's a shortcut to becoming a high-value man because you know your average man is already kind of considered a high value man in the eyes of foreign women. He's already good enough. Yeah. And so, um, I think that, uh, you know, that's why you you hear these stories about guys going to Thailand and then, you know, they'll get all these matches on a dating app and then women will drive, you know, two, three, four hours to come see you and and and drive you around and take you around and stuff. So, it's it's kind of like that that role reversal. Um, going back to what I was saying about the uh, you know, some of the issues I have with the the manosphere, um, I kind of believe that a lot of the advice or the prescriptions, even though we're told that Red Pill doesn't give prescriptions, but I think it does, um, we're kind of just told move or improve. Um, you know, be a passport bro or, you know, work on yourself. Um, but work on yourself for you, but you know, don't do it for women. Do it for you. even though we're not shaming the MGTows who aren't even playing the game, you know, it's like why aren't we shaming MGTows to improve for themselves anyway?

Um I think a lot of it's just coping. It's not, you know, it's basically just saying this is what we're kind of stuck dealing with. Now, you made a great point once where you said, um, you know, I if men had 20, 30 beautiful women in their inbox DMing them saying, "Let me come over and let me cook for you and massage you and don't you think it would be hard to get a man to commit?"

Oh, yeah. So, impossible. That guy is the guy I I know he's cheating for life. He's like, it's just never going to happen. So, so once again it comes down to the fact that now that's exactly the position women are in. They have all these thirsty simps after them. So women are basically have the privilege of being more picky because they have more options. So you know men would probably do a lot of the same things if they had the options as well. I think the problem is the game is so rigged to one side that we just don't have the ability to have any bargaining power. I think that our bargaining chips have taken away have been taken away from us. Our bargaining chip used to be the idea that you know we were the ones who who made the money but then ever since you know women got equal employment opportunities in the workforce and they're taking half the jobs now I I mean I you ask this question um if we want men to be providers are we going to remove equal employment opportunities which are preventing men from fulfilling the provider roles that we're advocating for. So, so you know, women want to have their cake and eat it too, while men can't even have a cake, can't have a cake or even eat one. So, we have to look at what's going on culturally and within the laws. And I think, you know, we're we're identifying the symptoms, but we're not looking at the root cause. What's causing these things?

Yeah. Because Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking of that. I just saw I witnessed I've seen too much now. I feel like I when I went into the space I was so like I just I did not know and then you go into it and you're like do do you do you learn does is there anything at this point that you know comes as a surprise to you or are you still you're still learning new things or

No, nothing's a surprise anymore. Um I'd say the biggest surprise to me was how much women lie about abuse. I did not realize that. Um cuz that I figured out when I was doing interviews and it was like every other show I was abused. I was abused and then guys like you were saying like people put in the chat like questions to ask that I never would have thought you know because when a girl's crying or like telling a really sobb story like about her abuse your first instinct is not to say well did you file a police report? Did you do this? Did you do that? That's not your, you know, as like a a human, you don't really want to do that. And and how dare you because you're supposed to automatically believe all women. You can't if you ask any questions now all of a sudden you're victim blaming, right?

Yeah. But it I would just say in general even if it's a guy like if he's telling me an abuse story my my just as a person I'm not now I do but back then that was not my like initial reaction to just not believe like you know but and it's kind of awkward right to well it's kind of like like you know you got to ask women what what's so

Attractive about a narcissist? Because every woman has seemed to have dated a narcissist. But so I started asking them, like, "Hey, what happened, right?" And there was this turning point in one of the shows where this girl said she was abused. And I said, "Okay, like did you file a police report?" "No." "Okay, well, tell me about like the fight that led up to the abuse." And cuz her story was that she was thrown down a flight of stairs. And I was like, "Well, that's terrible. I don't want anyone to be thrown down a flight of stairs." But she then she tells the story, "Well, I went over there and I wasn't supposed to go over there and I was fighting with him and in front of his kid and he wanted me to leave and I wouldn't leave and so he was pushing me out of the house." So, so I looked at her and I said, "So, you were trespassing; like it wasn't your…" And so, as soon as I found that out, I just couldn't believe, like, I can't think of a single abuse story on the show I believed or… great.

Well, also like, you know, when you look at the uh the Duluth model, uh what is that? That's the um the idea that the men are automatically perceived as the primary aggressors in um domestic violence cases. Um but then also isn't there statistics that um women are the biggest initiators of domestic violence, especially I guess in if you look at the domestic violence rates in lesbian relationships—much higher than domestic violence in homo-gay homosexual relationships—and and also why would we not attribute women to being more violent when you know being more emotional leads to violence? I know. I think I have always said that women are not nurturing because I went down this rabbit hole where I was trying to think of anything we were better at. Like anything I could back up with, like a… the best chefs are men. No, that's kept happening. And then I looked up, I was like, "Well, we're better with infants, right?" Wrong. Did you know if there's an infanticide? Do you know what that is? Uh, infanticides. So after the kid's born in the first year, if a kid's murdered, it's called—I think it's called an infanticide. Okay. That it's like 95% women are the perpetrators.

Wow. So if a baby dies within the first year of life, it's almost like the police don't even look for male victims or per—sorry, male perpetrators. Yeah. Because it's almost always a female or the mother. And women are more likely to kill the elderly, too. What I don't understand about that though is like, you know, you've heard these horror stories about women or or just babies, infants being left in a dumpster, always women. But but the thing I don't understand is that isn't it, what about the story about women can leave their child, you know, for adoption with a fire department or something? Why wouldn't they put up their child for adoption sooner than they would just abandon their baby? They're mad they reproduced with a guy they didn't want to. That's what that's what I think is behind it is they repre—like I think that after women have kids it's like post-nut clarity, you know, and like guys like they think they like a woman and then they sleep with her and they realize, "Oh, I just wanted the sex." I think women have that with like kids and so, you know, some women are just like, you know, they go crazy, they kill their kid, you know, you know… um but I had a back and forth with Sneako on a show and he just kept saying like, "Why do you hate women? Like women are like meant to be mothers," and… and I was like, "I I don't think so." Because if women really wanted to be mothers, we would have all… it's kind of like I think we're like… it's like revealed preferences versus stated preferences. It's like we would have all had kids at 20, but none of us wanted to. So, so do you think that women still today want to be married? Do they want families? Did they? No, I don't. I think it's like as simple as no, they don't.

So, so my my question also is like, you know, when I think about, you know, men kind of exercising their leverage and maybe going MIGTOW and taking—because all men can really do at this point is maybe like take themselves off the market—but how much impact is that going to have when most of those men are already deemed invisible to women to begin with? So, it's kind of like, you know, if women only have eyes for the top men, those are the men engaging with the women and the other… So I I think that that um you know, but women still kind of even though they're independent they still rely on a lot of those 80% of men—like they don't need those men but they still need their money because they want to sell them OnlyFans and they want to, you know, they still need attention from those men. So I think that if you can kind of like uh you know create a middleman or something, you know, something else that those men can focus on instead of chasing those women who don't want to reproduce with them or don't want to engage with them. Then all of a sudden now those women have, you know, they have to step up and, you know, kind of conform to what those men want. Right now they don't have to care because they already have all their needs met.

No, that's so true. But the I just think it's like it's something I even thought was true, like we all wanted to be married and be mothers, but actually my actually my um my boyfriend now said something to me me once. He's like, "If women wanted to be in relationships, they would be." Mhm. And he's like, "I as a man, he's like, I cannot fathom having as much choice as you guys have and not being in a relationship." He's like, "If we had a thousand matches on a dating app, we would be on dates." He's like, "If they wanted to be in relationships, you would go on a date every day of the week until you found a guy you wanted to be in a relationship with." But women aren't doing that, right? No. I mean, that's the thing. It's like a lot of women are hanging out with their girlfriends or they'd rather, you know, I think I think uh I did an episode called "Single by Choice." I think women are single by choice and men are single by circumstance. I think that um you know what what needs going back to what I was saying before, what needs are women currently deprived that they're forced to be with men? Currently, I don't think they're deprived anything; they can get all their needs met, but men are still deprived needs that they're forced to be with women, which is, you know, companionship, intimacy, you know, sexual access, all that other stuff. It's also, if you look at the top like TV shows that women watch, it's all side chicks. Chicks. No, like *The Handmaid's Tale*, *Scandal*. I'm like, I don't know. I think we just love being side chicks. Like, I think it's that simple. I think women, we just want to be side chicks.

Well, I mean, but but don't you think that even the side chicks want to be the main chick? Yeah. But then they become the main chick and they get bored. Yeah. So, you know, or like or it's like um they like tame the super like you know I have a friend um we're like the most unlikely of pals. He's um a open relationship super liberal; he's done like vegan protest guy and I was like, "Why would you do open relationships?" And he said, "Whenever I would go monogamous they would start treating me bad—bad," and he's like, "I just said no," and and so I it was almost like pragmatic for him is he tried be like being like he said they only treat me well when they think there's other women. Yeah. And and so even the open… like who's more of a cuck—Crowder or Destiny? You know what I mean? Because Destiny it's like you look at all the women he was banging it's like Lauren Southern…ther like it's it's attractive and you could maybe argue they're crazy and now he paid for it later. But he ran through like all of… Well, it's still I mean whether you're he's hooking up with the whether you're conservative or whether you're liberal. Yeah. It's still gyno-centrism. are still basically, you know, you ever hear the expression, what is it? Chivalry and feminism are—and by the way, I'm a fan of Crowder. I didn't mean to throw a shot. Shout out um uh uh—you ever hear the expression chivalry and feminism are two sides of the same gyno-centric coin? Yeah. It's it's basically both pedestal both place women at a status above men. Both place women on a pedestal. So we have to kind of like you know realize that that feminism chivalry is the very premise that feminism is based on. Feminism would have never gained traction without the help of men. Um so I think that that we have to look at uh you know this idea that that you know women are prioritized um you know they are the prize you know whether you're a liberal like Destiny or whether you're conservative like Crowder and it's all about you know keeping the happy wife happy life—got to keep her happy and stuff right—and uh when women have options and when women have power they tend to you know abuse that power and stuff—now now maybe men would do that too—but all I'm saying is there has to be some type of, you know, checks and balances. And there used to be checks on hypergamy. That's what Shaver talks about, you know, with the dowry. And now there aren't. And, you know, I think there's a male version of hypergamy. I think that that women wanting the bigger, better deal is the equivalent of men wanting the younger, hotter chick or maybe even multiple women. But the family court only punishes men pursuing their hypergamy.

Right. Yeah. And I actually don't think men are as bad with leverage. I do think they would cheat, right? I I do think… Yeah. I and I had like a turning point for me where I had a guy on my show who was like a conservative—like he had a very big Christian like conservative brand—and then he was like… and he would say like cheating is bad and then he was like dating like four girls from the show and he probably wasn't like exclusive or whatever but I don't think any of them… you know… and different girls are telling me they're dating like… people talk, you know… and I was like, "Oh [ __ ] most guys will cheat when they give are given the option." Well, even like when we talk about the whole body count issue and stuff, right? Um, if we're coaching men to be the high-value man that plows through women, aren't we kind of sculpting men to be the very thing that we condemn in women? Yeah. So, is that kind of, you know, and and even when we complain about body count, can does it make sense to complain about women having high body counts at the com—at the same time we're complaining about men being incels? Yeah. Well, the the thing is I just kind of see it like that's kind of how it is unfortunately. Like I don't I don't know if you see it changing in our lifetime. I I don't—but people call me black pill. So I I mean it's it's almost like all roads lead to MGTOW. Yeah. And I think that but but at the same time I think the people who really have it correct—the most correct—are the MGTOWs and the MRA's because I think that the other stuff just doesn't necessarily… most men are not going to be high-value men. And even if all men did become high-value men, high-value would just become the new average, right? You know, because like I said, average men are already high-value in the eyes of foreign women. I mean, women are just going to keep raising their standards and say, "Oh, well, every man's a millionaire now. I want a billionaire." And stuff, you know, so um I I think that uh you know, this is you know, this is going to take you know, a long long time. But the question, you know, must be asked, do the laws have to change first? Does the culture have to change? I think it's a combination of things because obviously, you know, if you change laws and the culture isn't supporting it, then it sounds like a dictatorship. And if the culture culture changes, it's just a it's just all about… at least at least we have to have these conversations and then kind of see where it goes because it's a roulette wheel of just, you know, voices in the space and they're all competing with each other. So, and so do you think that the content's been effective? Like, do you think that men are more men are waking up to a degree? I mean, I I'll ask you this because I've noticed this myself. Do you feel like, you know, you're hearing things in your interviews now that you weren't hearing 5 years ago?

Yeah, I I've noticed that as well. I mean, mean, um, you know, there there's there's more, uh, awareness, I think, um, about, you know, the entitlement of women, things like that. Um, but, you know, you still have a lot of guys just kind of on this self-improvement hamster wheel. And like I said, nothing wrong with self-improvement, but you know, I don't think self-improvement is going to fix all of men's collective issues. Yeah. Well, I don't think those guys care about men's collective issues. They're in it for themselves. You know, like I don't want to speak for all of them, right? But just the ones the guys I've known um like that came on the show and I just knew were very like successful with women. Yeah. They don't care. They don't care about men's rights. They're they're having a great time. They're not gonna stop. Not not only that, but I mean, let's just acknowledge how many high high-level men have been destroyed by the legal system. Yeah. So, it's like, you know, being being high-value isn't the end all be all. You're still subject to many laws. I mean, this is why, you know, a lot of people, you know, when they become a passport bro, they have to stay in that country because if you bring her back here, you're subject to the laws and you're subject to, you know, they just become kind of pragmatic, though. So, they'll get ring cameras if you know if we're talking like #MeToo type stuff. They'll they'll get like I know some of them get the girls to text them the next day and say they had a good time or whatever. I'm not saying they're in like I'm not saying it can't happen to them, but so the way they're going to do I'm just telling you that's what they do. So, so basically we've gone from friends with benefits to now sleeping with the enemy. You can't even you can't even trust your partner. Oh, they don't. You have to maintain frame at all times. If if if anything happens, it's your fault because you're supposed to lead. I mean, this is, you know, it it just always will center circle back to um shaming men. Yeah.

Well, I think the way they would kind of see it isn't really put it. It's not like they just don't care. They're they're trying to get sex. Like they just they're not really thinking about all this stuff. They're just like, "I want I want to bang three hot women a week right now." Now imagine and not care about what happens after. Right? Now imagine if we had a safe and regulated outlet for men to fulfill that need of theirs. Now all of a sudden they can take care of that and now they can make smarter decisions. I mean everyone's everyone's always telling men men need to be strong. And I'm saying it's not that men need to be strong. Men need to be smart. Yeah. Because… Oh my gosh. Have you ever tried to talk a guy out of like marrying someone he shouldn't mar? You can't. No. They're gonna shoot the messenger. Yeah. Yeah. No. And and that's the thing. It's like, "Oh, another one bites the dust," you know. And and and that's the thing is is, you know, but you have to sit there and be congratul—congratulatory and everything. And you know, have you did you see the Shannon Sharpe case? I grazed the the… Yeah. I I was just curious because basically he was banging um some eight—18 to I think she when they stopped hooking up she was 22 year old like of model. Okay. And she was really into the BDSM stuff and basically she set him up and now he's he just got offered like a $50 million contract. Yeah. And I knew he was going to get a false accusation because I can just I can just tell the difference between a guy that's really like if he's gonna be a player like the guy I knew in London was very intelligent about it. He had systems—process—like thought, "If she does this I'll do that." And I could just tell over the years that he was like you know when you could just tell a guy is just getting very cocky. He thinks it can't ever happen to them. He thinks he's like the ultimate alpha, you know, and I'm like, "He is going to catch a case." And he did. Um she… Yeah. She said he like she didn't consent, blah blah blah. Right.

Well, it's funny cuz um I'm actually doing a uh an episode right now uh on #MeToo and consent and the idea that it's like I mean, you know, are we headed towards needing consent contracts? I knew a guy that did that. But but even then, I mean, I don't think that's going to solve anything because uh you know, it's like okay, look at prenups. A woman can a woman a woman can withdraw consent to a prenup. So, you know what I mean? Like like like you know women have it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind, but a man is man is held expected to be consistent basically. You know, this guy had like lines for each um act that he consented to. Yeah. like how far can we… Well, not only that, but also I mean, you know, you talk about like the whole like *50 Shades of Grey* and everything and you know, I mean, God, when you're dealing with women in BDSM, I mean, you're really pushing the line and stuff. I mean, uh, one of my questions was, um, if consent is something that should be read through body language, why are there sexual encounters that require a safe word? You know, you need to sometimes you need to have that verbal consent, but I mean, are you once again, you know, there's there's what women say or you know, what we're expected to do and then you're going to kill the attraction. So, it's kind of kind of like you're just playing with fire at that point.

Have you noticed different archetypes of people in your interviews? Absolutely. Like what are some of the archetypes that you tend to see? Uh, well, there are the, you know, liberal fe—if a woman has a nose ring, you know, she's going to be a feminist and she's gonna say some liberal stuff. I mean, every once in a while there's exceptions, but but if I had to generalize, um, you know, obviously when I'm at the rodeo and I'm talking to people with cowboy hats on, I know I'm talking to TradCons. Um, you know, I think that think that, uh, uh, there that's a big part of it. um you know there are you know the guys who are you know the alpha the alpha males the beta males and like that—I mean I don't really like to subscribe to that whole thing and stuff—but you know it tends to be like the guys who go to the gym they're all you know about like the man is supposed to be the leader and you got to be the you know and they're just big on that masculinity uh um uh train or train or whatever. I think that um a lot of people are just kind of it's just almost it's almost like they're cosplaying—like they're almost wearing a costume and they don't even know necessarily—because once you start to like peel back the layers and really just ask them why they believe what they believe—like like like one of the the funny questions I I asked like like okay I okay I know when I can kind of size somebody up—okay these are the type of questions I want to ask them—like when I knew I was interviewing TradCons I want to throw a question at them like this: "What does masculinity look like if you're not religious, traditional or conservative?" Because that's literally how they define masculinity. But does that mean you can't be ma—like you have to be those things to be a man? You know what I mean? So according to their narrative…

And so and so, um, I don't know. I just, I, I, I want to at least, you know, know kind of what I'm dealing with so I can kind of challenge because, oh, you know, if you look like this, you probably believe this.

Um, but sometimes I just run into people randomly and I don't know what to expect. But if I go to a convention, I know like, okay, if I if I go to like a comic book convention, I'm probably going to interview a bunch of nerds and they're probably not, you know, subscribing to all the the alpha stuff. They're a little bit more like, you know, okay, I'm just, you know, myself and, you know, I embrace being, you know, a nerd in video games and stuff like that. So, I don't know. It's just, uh, what's your experience on that?

So, you have the—I'll tell you, but—so you have like the tradcons, the feminist women, the nerds at convention. I'm just curious what else you've seen.

Well, well, okay. You know, we live in Las Vegas, and so—or I'm sorry, I live in Las Vegas, and every culture is represented out here and stuff, right? So, you know, there might be, um, you know, uh, um, bikers there, you know, there's there's—Oh, that's interesting. There's bikers, there's gay people, conservative—the bikers. I haven't really dived that deep into it and stuff, but I think that um, I I would say that there's a a degree of like kind of, you know, machoism or masculine that comes with that and stuff. I mean, I think that uh a lot of guys who ride bikes, you know, they get off on the uh, you know, the adrenaline of that and stuff and the freedom of that. But I I don't know. I mean, you know, some people I have more experience with than others.

Um, you know, some guys that are kind of a little more like ghetto, a little more thug kind of, you know, mentality and everything. Um, and so, you know, it's like, uh, every everything is like, you know, constantly testing you out here. You know what I mean? There's just there's, if I talk to like show girls, uh, the show girls, you know, tend to be very, you know, boss babes and like that, you know, they're they know that uh they can go out and um, you know, just just show their stuff and and get whatever they want and make money and everything, but you know, there's there's exceptions to everything. I don't know. It's just a it's an interesting question.

When I interview people, I found that there's not that many exceptions. Like most people kind of believe what they look like. There's the occasional one that makes a very good interview that'll like, you know, like the conservative—like I think you had a conservative lesbian once that was like very interest—like I think it was one of—

Yeah.

Yeah. She was—that that's a perfect example because she looked like she was going to be the biggest man-hating lesbian and she was actually like a big defender of men and and also you would expect a a lesbian to be more liberal and not conservative. So yeah.

But I I don't know, when I've interviewed people I found it's like pretty easy to kind of profile people and figure out based on—there is a generational difference where—um, for example, one thing in dating I've noticed is men over 40-ish, give or depending on where the guy grew up, if it's a more liberal or conservative area, are offended by women asking to split the bill—like they would kind of look at it as an insult over 40, where like men under 40, it's it may have happened to them a few times. It's not the most abnormal thing in the world.

Um, another thing I've noticed is women, I can kind of tell their relationship problems by how they describe their ex. So, like if they say, um, "he just didn't appreciate me," I know that means that she's always going to—or like, "I did so much for him" equals "I'm going to keep score in a relationship and count all of that."

Yeah, there's little things like that where I could like translate what they're actually me—like what they're actually saying because I understand like you don't want to be in a completely one-sided relationship. But like like people that like are actually doing things out of their goodwill, they're not really keeping score. And if they really feel like they're being taken advantage of, they're just going to like, you know, they're not they're not doing it to get something. They'll just go, you know.

Well, yeah.

Yeah, if you're if you're if you're going tit for tat, I think that, you know, it's already the relationship is probably already, you know, and it's usually she did like two things. I also noticed women when they give like um gifts, it's always gifts that women would want and never gifts that men want. So, they'll always say like—I had so many women, I asked them about gifts they gave to men and it was like a romantic hotel room. I mean, it's stuff that's nice, but it's just not something that I think of like a guy would really—

Well, what's the uh the the joke that um women will give gifts to men like, "Okay, I'm going to give you a tool kit so you can go fix stuff around the house, you know, so I'll just like, you know, make you more of a utility, you know, so you can kind of do, you know, that kind of—but I don't know. I mean, uh, sometimes women will, you know, maybe buy a guy a watch or something like that, I guess. But who do the who are the watches for, though? though? I mean, like when do women buy a guy a video game? That's for him. You know what I mean? Like women I feel like men buy watches that are expensive more for women than for men perhaps.

Yeah.

I could be wrong. I don't I'm not like a Rolex expert, but—

Well, you know, I mean, we might be just talking about the exceptions here, I guess. But yeah, I was just curious if you had any like observations kind of similar in your interviews like that. I mean, one of my uh like earliest interviews, I mean, obviously, you know, when you look at the whole like romantic model and stuff, you know, it's, you know, flowers and candy and all that stuff, that's all for women, you know what I mean? So, it's all about, you know, just uh uh celebrating the woman and making her, you know, feel like a, you know, rose petals. I mean, you don't you don't see women doing all that stuff for men, you know what I mean? So, and and nowadays there's this, you know, and if they do do it, they got to put it on social media to show everyone they did it.

Well, well, Well, well, nowadays nowadays men are shamed for for that because it's like it's like, oh, he wants princess treatment and stuff, right? And the thing is that there's this like really weird black and white bubblegum dichotomy where it's like, you know, if you're not like this super alpha macho masculine man, that means you want to put on a dress and wear makeup. You know what I mean? Or, you know, if if you don't want to, you know, pedestalize this woman or, you know, or whatever, if you want to feel um like, you know, what's the expression? and it says uh uh women want love, men want respect. Well, I think they both want love and respect. But it's like, you know, if if if a man wants to feel, you know, like a woman wants to do something kind for him, it's like all of a sudden now he's going to be masculinity shamed for that. You know what I mean? Because now you want princess treatment and he'll be shamed by women or other men or whatever. And it's just like, you know, I I just get so tired of like, you know, as a man, this is how you're supposed to sit and this is the type of drink you can't you can only drink these type of drinks and you can only drive this type of car and you know what I mean? It's like nagging.

Well—Well, it's just everyone is trying to, you know, define what a man is and and try to, you know, just everyone's trying to to like—like men are shamed for being toxically masculine, but then they're also shamed for not being masculine enough. So they're being shamed from from both sides. So I just say to men, just stop caring what anybody thinks and just be who you want to be.

Have you done interviews in different cities or have you just stuck to Vegas?

I I would like to travel more. Um, I think that uh, you know, maybe as I have the opportunity, you know, to grow my following and uh, you know, and have more revenue streams. I think that uh that'll, you know, open up new uh new opportunities for me. But um, you know, I was in uh Europe this summer and I went to uh Italy and Croatia and Greece and I it's just beautiful there. But I would love to uh have the do interviews or—No, I I I probably should have, but I'll tell you this, okay? Like like certain cultures—I mean, I wonder how it was in London, but like, you know, if in certain cultures people are a little more timid, you know, I don't typically get Asian people on my show, even though—me either. They're the hardest to interview. They're very shy. The same thing in London. Yeah, even though there is kind of like a Chinatown area. So maybe I'll try a little bit of that.

Um, but uh, you know, and and you know the nice thing about Vegas is that everyone comes here. So I have the opportunity to get, you know, like if I was in, you know, whatever—just uh uh Texas—not Texas, but uh if I was in just a city where everyone is basically kind of like the same, the show would kind of get stale. I think that's one of the things I really enjoy about the fact that I can get just every culture represented and challenge them and see how different but also how similar people are because, you know, if you want to have this idea that, you know, female nature and all women are the same, then wouldn't the answers all be the same?

That was what I thought about in my divorce documentary when I um was working on it. Like the stories were the same. It'd be like a guy from Africa, same story. Eastern European wife, same. So, I do wish the Passport Bros. Well, but some of the worst stories actually were from Passport Bros. because they—there's like not extradition laws. So, like if she steals your kid and brings it to her home country, like you don't have the same—a lot of them didn't have the same rights. But then at the same time, if if this is all, you know, natural or female nature, why why hasn't these things—why hasn't the incel problem or the divorce, why hasn't that always been an issue? Why is it all of a sudden become an issue if it's nature, you know? As opposed to culture.

Well, I think it's just women have the freedom to do it now. Like women didn't have the freedom to like—I I don't think in history women could have like taken care of herself and had society take care—you know, cuz women—like we get all these benefits—we get free school—like life doesn't even hit us till what—we're 40 or like we actually have to start paying like paying back stuff.

Yeah.

Even now um I met a a bankruptcy lawyer once and he said like you can literally like you could spend 60k, never pay it back, you get an like a mark on your record, but—so yeah, you just got to spend $60,000 and they still get credit cards after and he would help them rebuild their credit. Like so, you know, I just think women have like the opportunity now and we didn't before. like we didn't have as much opportunity to—this is kind of like uh I did an episode about this called obsolete, but uh um one of my line of questionings was um uh you know, why are there so many women who say they don't need a man and uh the women were saying things like, well, now men want to act like women or they want to go 50/50 and if you want to go 50/50 then I just don't need you and so I'll say, okay, well, does the fact that women no longer need men—that the main reason women were with men was because they had to be—and if that's true, then wouldn't that prove that men were often seen as a utility to be used? And wouldn't men now be better off without women if that's the main reason women would want to be with men?

Yeah.

And I think that's true. I think that's what we're finding out is women don't like men as much as we previously thought. I think men—

Yeah.

Yeah. men are in love. Women are in business.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, although a lot of times I don't think um I think men sometimes I don't know if they know or they don't know, but—know, but I think a lot of men lie to themselves about how much they like women. Like I don't think men really like hanging out with women as—

Yeah.

Men men like men like sex more than they like women. I think—

Yeah, that's what I'm—like I don't really think the sexes like each other as much as we thought. I I that's that's what I've realized as well. And that's the thing is like, you know, when I first started doing this, there were a lot of things that I believed and then I kind of debunked my own misconceptions. Like I I I thought when I first started doing this, well, you know, men and women really want to be together and they really like each other and women just are confused about what men actually want and if we just kind of, you know, get on the same page again. But I I I don't know. This is why I think it just comes down to, you know, okay, I've asked women, are are you more are women today more interested in love or power? or power?

Control.

Power.

Yeah.

Yeah. And and you know, how do women get power? You know, they're interested in controlling the top 10% of men. Like that's the female dream. Yeah. Like that—you watch Scandal, you know, it's like she wants the president, she wants to use her sexual power to control the president. So that's that's what I would say. But but once again, it's like, you know, by trying to, you know, you know, put uh some type of restrictions on that is misogyny.

Misogyny.

So it's kind of like, okay, well, you know, our our culture only seems to know about misogyny, but not misandry. And it's like why aren't they given equal, you know, platforms? Because at the end of the day, I mean, I think we almost really live in a culture of misandry. I mean, we've got, you know, misandry coming from everybody, you know. We've got it coming from the feminists. We've got it coming from the women feminists, the male feminists. We've got it coming from the tradcons. You know, I mean, I think that that gyocentrism and this romantic model, it's all about female worship. and and you know, you're you know, in order to be seen as a man, in order to qualify as a man, it's all about serving women.

There's this um thing I kind of came up with just from my own uh uh you know, knowledge, but I call it the holy trinity. Uh it's basically the idea that women have these three powers. They have sexual power, they have victimhood power, and they have chivalry power. And those three powers together, that's great.

Yeah.

Those three powers together are just make them invincible.

Yeah.

Have you—I was curious. Have you had any groupies?

You know, um, a couple. And it's actually surp—It's—It's funny because I mean, even though I have, you know, a pretty decent following now. Um, you know, whenever I'm on the street, I'll I'll go up to just random people and I'll still say, "Hey, will you subscribe to my channel?" Not because I necessarily need to, but I feel like, you know, Vegas is a very small town. I want everyone here to know kind of what I'm about, who I am. Um, and I want uh to just share this this this knowledge, this information with people. Um, and every once in a while, like I'll meet a girl and, you know, she might be really cute and she'll be like, "Oh my god, I follow you." And I'm thinking to myself, "Wow, like that's pretty cool when I have a girl who follows me and actually appreciates what I do." Because I'll be honest with you, like one of the reasons why I was very reluctant initially to show my face was because I was afraid of the backlash.

Mhm.

I was I was thinking like, "Oh my god, I'm going to be, you know, labeled and cancelled or, you know, I mean, I've I've—before I've kind of like tempered myself and knew how to ask questions in a way, like you said, early on, like I know how to do it in a way where I'm kind of trying to not trigger people. But when I first started, I needed to kind of test the the line and see how far I could push things." And I think there's like one bar that I got 86ed from because I, you know, I mean, God forbid, you know, some girl feels unsafe or whatever it is, she tells somebody and you're automatically out. You're you're you're guilty.

Um, and so there's been like maybe one or two instances of that, but I think since then, you know, I I take it more from a much uh more inquisitive—like I'm just trying to understand what's going on. And but I mean, God, it's just sometimes you're just going to get attacked. We're just, you know, criticized just for asking questions.

What did you do before this? What was your like—do you still—I met you live off of this, right? You don't—

Uh, yeah, I live off this. Um, like no one could have a day job and do this. Like they'll find—they'll—

No, no, it it—I'll believe it. Like it takes me like two weeks to make an episode. Sometimes longer depending on the weather because I'm out in the elements.

Well, your stuff is very well edited like—and you f—you really you really like put like all the best interviews together.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean cuz that's the other thing too is the fact that um just to answer your your first question by the way um I used to work at a music venue out here. Um and I also like have done eBay and uh you know buying and selling of collectibles and things like that. Um so my my family we kind of like have that type of business. Um so it's always kind of been like you know I kind of had jobs where I just kind of work for myself. Um and that's kind of—but then I you know I went to film school and I kind of learned you know editing and shooting and things like that. So, I'm glad at least I'm using my film school education now.

Um, and so, uh, but but one of the thing people also think I have like a team of people. I pretty much do everything myself. I I write, edit, you know, uh, and it's it's a lot of work. And, uh, you know, I think that, you know, if, you know, I try to put shorts out every day. If I could, you know, put out a new episode every every day, I would. But like I said, just at the level that I'm at, you know, it's I want to put out quality, not quantity and stuff. You know what I mean? I don't want to be fast food. I want to, you know, really give people—and sometimes I interview people and they're like, "Wow, that's a really good question, but I don't want to put out an interview with people just going, uh, I don't know. I don't know. It's a good question. I don't know."

Yeah.

So, um, yeah, but that's kind of it—just kind of like—like if I had to give advice to anyone who was a creator, I would say just start doing it and tweak as you go because it's an evolving thing. I mean, you're not making the same content you were when you started. So, if you just, you know, find something you're passionate about and keep doing it, then, you know, eventually you'll you'll find yourself along the way. So, um, how do you, like, would you get married in this climate? this climate?

Well, I—

Well, I mean, not on paper. Um, I think that, uh, I don't think you need to be married. I think that, um, you know, you could just have a, uh, you could just have a a relationship with somebody. This is not a, um, common law state, I believe. But, um, I don't know. For some reason, I think that that in my

Weird mind, I think that relationships might actually work out better if either, I mean, assuming you don't have children. I'm assuming that if either one of you could leave at either, at any time and you stay together, that means more because you know, love is a choice. And you know, if you're, you know what I mean? There's nothing keeping you there. But you choose to stay there, that means more. You know, just like uh, it's funny because I I I post shorts every day and I mentioned to you that today's short was was about talking to you about love languages from our interview, you know, years ago. And I think that quality time is probably your most important uh uh choice because um time is your most precious resource and you make time for what's important. What's important.

And you know what's interesting? I had the same, I wrote like when I I took a break after I left London and I wrote down my conclusions and that was my conclusion was that the form of marriage we have today is the most superior, not the loveless sexless man, but the people that like, like in a way, the women, I don't want to say the men that stay, because men will stay like the the few people that make it actually do love each other because they actually they choose to be together, where before it, it might have been religion. It might have been culture. It might have been they had no other choice. Yeah. Where now it's they both want to.

So, um, this is one of my questions I asked in my at the end of my dowy episode. At what point in history do you think that marriage worked the best? At what point in history do I think marriage works the best? I don't know. Um, because I can't say today with the laws. I think you've said that marriage today isn't even marriage. Yeah. Um, I don't know, 1700s maybe. Okay. I don't know when gyocent, I was trying to remember. I can't off the top of my head remember when gyocentrism um, Well, it's interesting because it it was medieval times, wasn't it? The last time like before, when did gyno centrism be, when did the romantic model take over? Yeah. Wasn't it in like after medieval times? Am I wrong? I could be wrong. I mean chivalry, you know, and and medieval knights kind of, you know, I think that kind of goes hand in hand. So, no, but wasn't that where it started? They wanted to like bow to the women instead of the knights. Yeah. Yeah. I believe I believe I believe that would probably be, But I mean, you know, maybe if we, you know, I don't know. Get get some of our friends on the phone and we can uh, I wasn't alive at any of those time periods.

Well, that's the thing also and and you know, we have to question history and look at, you know, multiple sources because obviously things, you know, might have been rewritten or whatever it is. But, but I I don't know. I mean, uh, I was talking to a woman the other day about the dowy and she was saying, well, you know, the whole concept of a dowy, you know, was, you know, that was a rule invented by a man. Everyone's feminists always want to try to dismiss everything as, well, a man came up with that. Who came up with that system? You know, have you heard that argument all the time? And I'm saying, well, you know, men can be victims of other men. So, just because, you know, men came up with a system that might, you know, punish other men, does that mean that we don't care about men? You know what I mean? Like, if women if women are victims of a, that's a question because I don't want to screw this up. It's like um, you know, can do women oppress other women or do only men oppress women according to feminists and and and then at the same time um, you know, if men oppress other men because men sent other men to war or enslaved other men, do we not care about that? So why how are we living in a patriarchy if men have oppressed men more than they've ever oppressed women? Oppressed women? Yeah, I I've had a a point where I decided I need to stop romanticizing the past because we really don't know, you know, because I think at one point I would really romanticize marriage in the past and then I started reading some accounts. Yeah. And I was like, I don't know if it was what we thought it was.

Would you get married? Um, I really don't think if I loved the guy I'd want to put him in that position, to be honest. Um, if he wanted to, I would. Like that's, Yeah, if he wanted to. Would you sign a prenup? Yes. I want to sign a prenup for me. Well, that's the thing is is it really like whenever, you know, whoever's money is on the line, I guess you would say, you know, but um but yeah, I would, you would you, I mean, at the very least, but um I mean prenups don't even hold up apparently. So, you know, I guess what do they say? The best the best prenup is no marriage. No marriage. Yeah. Yeah. Do you believe that prenups invalidate the sacrament? The sacrament? No, I don't, because it's just smart. I don't, you know what? I'm too blackpilled. I barely like, it just doesn't mean anything anymore. So, when did you officially become blackpilled? Because I'm I'm assuming when you first started doing this you weren't. No, I wasn't. I was not. Um, and do you think that do you think that the divorce documentary Blackpills Me? Because I saw women that I would deem as better than me do worse things than I thought I would ever do. So like I would interview these women and by every account I'm like they're better. Like just I'm like um they're they're softer than me. They're like um they got married younger than I did. They like were more traditional. They were like by every account like on paper I'm like and I'm like but you did this awful thing like god awful and I'm like holy [ __ ] like that's when it kind of like clicked for me. I'm like I'm not seeing a difference between the behavior of like conservative women and porn stars. Like what I'm not seeing any difference. Yeah. And I'm like oh my, Yeah.

Well that's the other thing too. Even even when I did uh this episode when I was interviewing some of the the country girls of traditional women, I this viral clip about I said, you know, is a man less of a man if he can't change a flat, change a flat tire. Is a woman less of a woman if she can't cook a meal from scratch? And you're seeing the double standards right there. And it's like these these, you know, can literally be undercover feminists. They're just wearing a costume, you know. Can we talk about how and they love simps? They all love simps. And they just want to do this new tradife content. I'm like, ladies, can we just talk about how it's kind of a waste of time to make bread? You can go buy it for like $5 sourdough. Yeah. Yeah, of course. And you know what? I had this I made bread once, right? Cuz I wanted to see. Yeah. And I was like, this isn't as good as the stuff I buy in the store. Maybe I'm just not that good at making it, right?

Well, what's happening with the wife school and stuff? I went I went through, Oh, I did like the wife school. That was fun. Um, but the, Well, I liked it. It was a fun thing, but I just didn't have time to do it to be honest. Okay. And it was everyone was just roasting me for doing it. So, you're working on the divorce documentary and the wife school. You got a lot of stuff. I took on way too many projects. That was like, And then I got demonet. It was like after I got demonetized, I had to like cut it. But it was fun. I really enjoyed it. I really like cooking. So, I wouldn't even like I just like doing it. I remember asking you this. You're like, "You make really mean chicken, right?" I do. I like cooking. Like, I'm not the best, but I do like doing it. Um, but I do think making bread is a waste of time. I do do like and I tried to make a pizza from scratch once and I was like, why didn't I just buy it? And that's, So, some of the trades, they'll like talk and I'm like, just like go to Chipotle. Well, well, no, then not only that, but it's like, you know, with women, yes, it's like, you know, they can go to Chipotle or whatever it is. And for the men, oh, you're not a man if you can't change a flat tire. Well, why not just call AAA? We have modern conveniences now. We can, I mean, even when it talks to even when we talk about women being, you know, tried wives, men in have invented appliances to make women's lives so much easier. I know. And we don't have as many kids. Yeah. But what if what have women invented to make men's lives easier? Nothing. Easier? Nothing. But my point is like the trad wives, there's no really need for trades because women have two. Like if you again I come from 10 kids, okay, not two. Mhm. And the different like when there's 10 the like you're going to have a like the hard part growing up that I would say was the most time consuming was when the kids were and I'm not a mother so this is just what I remember but when the kids were under three, right? So it was like, so it's like for a 10 years, you always have a kid that's under three, but like you're done in five. Five. So I'm like, we need to make bread.

Well, the other one thing I I uh heard the other day, it's like if child birth is the worst pain in the world, you know, why do women continue having babies? They stopped. And and and also, you know, if divorce is such a horrible thing, you know, why would a man ever get remarried? I think it's, do you know, the most the most um I'm taken now, but when I was dating, I found the most desperate guys were once divorced where like they were just like like I need a new wife right now. Like it would be like and I was like whoa, you know, like whoa, let me get to know you for, you know, and those would be the guys that would just put me on this like crazy pedestal where there, you know, and and it would just be like um how do I put this? They didn't want the dream to die. And so that's what I find why mine got married again is they're still in the tradcon like mindset, right? Mhm. And they like that ego belief like they cannot they they're like no no I just picked one wrong girl. This is not the nature of women. This is not my my Christian beliefs. I just I picked wrong. Yeah. And like you even heard Crowder say that when he like got one through. Oh, I just picked wrong. But it wasn't anything about, So So I haven't really followed much uh up on Crowder, but what like what's his current state or what's his uh current views on the state of marriage? Um, I think he's kind of avoided the topic after to be honest. Um, I I haven't I haven't like I really would love to do an in-depth interview with him. I've been working on it the last couple months. So, it could happen because you wonder like what would happen if, god forbid, you know, any of the other guys at the Daily Wire, you know, got hit with a divorce. Oh, one of them will. It's just like a numbers game. Yeah. No, it's it's it's crazy. And and uh you know just and it's weird because it's like you know I really enjoy a lot of their content when it comes to certain topics uh it makes a lot of sense but then as soon as I start talking about men's issues they just lose me because it's just they're just stuck in this 1950s model that just isn't isn't even practical in today's today's world.

Well and it's playing pretend because I was doing with this with the Christian guys because they all want to sell me that their like girl is different, right? Right? [Laughter] [Laughter] And I'm like, "Okay, what age did you meet her? What was she doing here? Did she go to a like?" And if you look at like, because I've done spreadsheets. I'm like autistic like this. I've done like a literal spreadsheet of all the TradCon women and the age they got married, how many children they had, what age, because there's like two types of marriages I found with Tradcon women. They either wait and push it off or um and then still claim traditional, but like they get like um like Charlie Kirk is always saying that he's was a virgin on his wedding day. I don't hear that from his wife. I don't know. Like I don't know if she was or she wasn't. I just don't hear that. Um but the or if they do get married young, it's like a Lauren Chen type marriage where they still wait and it's like like nobody wants to spend youth on their husbands. Like that's pretty much what it is. Yeah. So, Yeah. So, um, basically though it's like cosplay like it's not it's like everyone's modern but no one wants to admit it. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. And even um trying to think there was, Yeah. Age. Yeah. Yeah. Even like they all went to college all, Yeah. There's no difference. The state of marriage right now is like I said it's it's it's on life support. I don't know if if there's going to be uh any changes if you know is it going to take men to really just boycott marriage and say we're not going to do it under this under these conditions that's really going to make any difference. But I mean the tracks will will admit that you know it the divorce it's they just say just do it anyway. They'll say that's where I'm getting it. They'll say just do it anyway and stuff and I'm like I was on I was just on this show and I he asked me like how do men fall for this? And I said, "Well, earlier in the show you told me that you were not um you did you don't believe in prenups, but you've seen the nature of women. Like you've seen the n the market, right? So why?" Yeah. But but but I mean why are they not the ones fighting the hardest to get these laws changed? Why is it they're getting getting paid? Like they it's because they they have more like I don't know if you agree with this but it's like they have more control over like their money and everything if women are making their own. So if you get like so I always divide everything $8 $2. So if I can make $8 off of one market and $2 off of another, why wouldn't I want the women single, right? Why wouldn't I want the like they need them in their church? They need them. Like I bet you the biggest donors to them are either women or men trying to sell to women. So once again, follow the money. Yeah. Yeah. It's just same old story.

But um no, I I I I think that uh you know, you see a lot of people just kind of like speaking out of both sides of their mouth or like I said, you know, they'll they'll just say, "Oh, well, feminism is the only problem." And it's like, "No, we have to look at the whole picture here because this is not, you know, people say it took us what, hundred years to get here, and it's going to take us 100 years to get out of this." And it's like, well, what is the goal here? You know, is the goal to go back to the 1950s? I mean, then, okay, let's take away, you know, 70 years worth of laws and, you know what I mean? Like, we can't, we're not going back to traditionalism. I think you said that and stuff. So, it's like, okay, well then does it really make sense to keep men in a traditional role when women have been liberated? Correct. Yeah, I don't think it does. So, but I think that's kind of like what everyone's pushing for. And I think that, you know, it's like it's like, well, then we complain that, you know, men are sing and it's like, well, aren't kind of men kind of pushed into a simp dynamic where it's happy wife. I mean, happy wife, happy life is the only thing that's going to keep them, you know, in that, like I said, they're held hostage and stuff. So, yeah. Yeah. Legalize prostitution. I'm with you. I think that's part of it. I think it's a solution. I don't think it's the solution, but I think it probably would at least, you know, maybe, you know, create some uh some balance in in the leverage.

So, what would you three solutions, what would they be? So, legalized prostitution, legalized prostitution. Um, I would say definitely there's got to be what, like caps on spousal and uh uh child support. Um, we have to look at the uh the sex laws, the consent laws. Um, because obviously that has nothing to do with masculinity. That has everything to do with just, you know, just just bias in the system. Um, what else? Uh, I think we need some, you know, some real serious discussions about, you know, like like I mean the episode I'm doing on consent. We need to have some, you know, some serious conversations about what consent actually looks like. Um, what kind of, you know, masculinity means, maybe redefine masculinity. Um, and that doesn't necessarily mean that men want to become women. It just means that men want to be liberated from, you know, all these sexist expectations and burdens placed on them that don't really yield them any results that they want anyway. Um, and I think that uh, you know, maybe just understanding that men are human beings with feelings and we're not just a utility.

So, do you think AI sex bots are going to change anything? I've asked about that and I think it's interesting. Isn't that an advanced form of corn? Yeah. Because it's kind of like, you know, I mean, obviously there was a movie with Waqen Phoenix called Her, and it's like, okay, I've seen all these people say, wait until the AI girlfriends come out. We'll just, It's It's like men and women are trying to engineer each other out of the equation. We don't need women anymore because we can basically get an artificial womb, which is just an advanced form of a surrogate. I've read articles that maybe they're trying to develop uh artificial wombs to grow babies. Do I think that'll happen? We've already seen things that I never thought were possible. So, who knows at this point? Um, IVF kind of solved fertility. You know what's crazy? So, if you hook up with a 20-year-old that's ovulating, what do you think your chance of getting her pregnant is? 50%. 25. Okay. So, um if you do a round of IVF treatments, what is her chance of getting pregnant from it? Well, I know you have to have uh several uh multiple procedures and each procedure could be up to like $30,000, I think, or something. Correct. Correct. But remember, they're trying to make it free, right? That's that's or more affordable. They're trying to subsidize IVF. Okay. Um, I'm not saying there are not complications with it. I'm not saying it's good or bad, right? Um, but what do you think the percent chance of getting pregnant off of IVF is off of one round? Oh my god. That's got That's got to be like 5%. 50. What? 50%. And I had people call into my show talking about their experience and they did like on average two rounds. Okay. So, I think that the number of births from IVF is way higher than we think because they've essentially, if you have the money for it, re-engineered fertility where now to be fair, right, it's a lot easier to just have sex when she's ovulating for a year at 20. Yeah. But I still could not believe that it was that high. Like, I just to me it's insane that essentially if you have money, you've re-engineered fertility. Wow. That is crazy. Um, and I'm I know there's issues. I know everyone in the chat will say like, "Oh, well, the babies are autistic." Yeah, I'm not saying it's a perfect system. Well, I'm saying like obviously, but they get a kid. Like, I'm like, that's insane. And even at like 40, it's like way higher than I thought. I think it's like 10% or 5%, which I think is insane. Well, yeah, but at that age, you know, the the risk of geriatric pregnancies. Pregnancies. So, I mean, oh, I'm not saying it's like, but even I even thought like out of a hundred that 10 will get a kid at 40. That's crazy. Like, that's that's crazy. And they're going to keep selling it to us that it's going to be attainable. So,

There's, I think, there's going to be like more moms over 40 than ever in history. Yeah. Um, but obviously, for every winner, there's like 10 losers.

What about that statistic where they say, you know, by what is it, 2040, you know, 45% of women are going to be single and childless? So, does it account for that?

Well, I think they're just pushing it off. Like, women will keep having kids, but we're just going to push it older and older. So, like, you know, like Jazelle Budachan has convinced all these women that they're going to get pregnant at 42 by jiu-jitsu. It's kind of crazy though because it's like when women are young and fertile, they want to have abortions, and then when they start, you know, aging out, then they want to have IVFs. It's they we don't want to spend our youth because it's like okay if they it's it's like we like we women like like they're not going to get to go on a yacht in Miami pregnant. They'll never get the chance. They'll never get the chance to be on that yacht again. So they're they're trying to maximize, you know, take advantage of all their, you know, opportun--Yeah, the beauty opportunities, right? And then get a kid at 42.

Yeah. Well, I mean, but that's the thing is that's what technology, you know, technology is all about. Giving people options, correct? And that's why I'm saying, okay, so if we're going to subsidize IVF for women, why don't we have the government subsidize prostitution for men?

I'm with you. I think they should. But yeah, why do you think it's why do you think it's not talked about in the manosphere? I mean, I've I've asked certain people um if that would be a game-changer, and they've said yes, I think it would. So why is that never looked at as an option? Is it just because it's it's immoral? It's degenerate, or it's perceived that way even though it was legal in the past? I wonder if it's maybe seen as a shortcut and they think like you should do the work of like approaching 10,000 women, or why are we more focused on trying to sell men a dream that most will never achieve instead of actually, let's come up with a practical solution that actually makes sense and is something like, does anybody want to make things easier for men, or do we, you know what I mean, like like who who is actually who is actually an ally who's actually trying to help men versus just blame men and say you don't want to do the work and you know men need to step up. I mean, it just seems like like you know if it's if it's feminists or it's tradcons or some red pillers are all saying the same thing. What's the difference? It all sounds like feminism to me.

Yeah. You need to go on Fresh and Fit. I would love to hear this conversation between you two. I think it'd be really interesting.

Well, like I said, I mean, you know, there there's there's a lot of things that that we can agree on, but there's some things we don't agree on, and I can respectfully, you know, challenge people if they're open to it, you know.

Well, thanks so much for--We're coming on time, so thanks so much for coming on today. This was great. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Yeah, I really enjoyed having you on. You even--You're like one of the few content creators that really can make me think and like almost stop me in my tracks. So, I appreciate it. Thank you for that. Seriously.

Um, do you want to tell the people where they can find you?

Yes. Um, so I can be found on YouTube. Uh, it's complicated channel's name, and uh basically uh I'm also on Instagram. Uh I I'm on uh Facebook. Um, and yeah, just subscribe to the channel, leave comments, like, share. Uh, a lot of people use my clips and they don't really know who I am. So that's why I appreciate this opportunity to kind of show my face and at least get my face and my brand kind of linked up a little bit because people don't really know who I am, but they know my work and they know my voice. So I appreciate that.

Would you ever do street interviews like sitting down?

I'm I'm open to trying all different things now, I guess. You know, I mean, I think that maybe my format, you know, is is, you know, fine, you know, in in different uh scenarios. Oh, you did whatever, right? Yeah, I did that. Um, but, you know, I mean, I could go on podcasts. I think that that for me being on the street, there's certain limitations, and I have more opportunities to maybe like dive a little bit deeper into deeper conversations and follow-up questions when I'm on a a podcast or in a controlled setting. So, I'm I'm open to it, you know.

Well, guys, make sure you go subscribe. He is the--has the best questions on YouTube. Really, no one does it better. So, like the video on your way out, please subscribe to the channel. Ring that notification bell. And I'll see you guys next time. Bye-bye.

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Modern Masculinity, Feminism, and the Dating Crisis w/ @ItsComplicatedChannel

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