Transcription
Welcome to Tuesday Live. We are here talking all things sardines and what happens when they don't go as planned. In fact, what happens if you have a disaster while eating sardines? And unfortunately, we have Bella, the steak and butter gal, as our example of what happens when sardines do not go like they should have.
Welcome to the Dr. Bos show. It is Tuesday night, and we are happy to see some of our regulars uh uh joining in, telling us where you're from. But most important is we're leaning in to one of the other major stars in the space of carnivore and low carb and getting people healthy. It is Bella, uh, the steak and butter gal. Welcome to the channel. Welcome back to the channel, actually.
Yes, happy to be back, and I would love to learn a lot from you today because I have a lot of questions about maybe how I could have had a better experience. But thank you for having me.
Yeah, honestly, uh, it is a great teachable moment. When your video went live about a month ago, I, I'll be honest, I don't watch every one of your videos. Probably like you don't have time to watch every one of my videos, but boy, did my company know that you had gone live with sardines. Uh, because the questions just came flooding in. So, I'll bet that some of those are going to be the overlap of what you have. Uh, and I, I think uh, that there are plenty of teachable cases when things go right, but also when things don't go right. So, uh, let me have you do a little bit of introduction. I know you have some really impressive, uh, pedigree of where you've ended up in life. Uh, Juilliard trained, uh, both piano and violin, right? Uh, so smarty pants, big brain, uh, fueled by carnivore, but there was a season where you weren't that healthy, which is probably how you ended up on carnivore. Why don't you give a just a brief introduction of >> where you were and how, how many steps did it take for you to land at carnivore butter beef?
Yeah, happy to. So, landed in carnivore thanks to ruining my health with a vegan diet. So, I was vegan for 6 years. Now, before I was vegan for 6 years, I was always on this constant search to heal my skin issues. So, I would struggle ever since I can remember as a kid with my eczema. And so I still remember my mom taking me to the doctor every single month to renew prescriptions and to try to fix this eczema problem. Uh, besides the eczema, I hit around 14, 15, and I started having cystic acne. So, my skin was tomato red, cystic acne, puss pimples. It was painful, and it was embarrassing for me. And, um, I guess growing up being in the arts, my mom really wanted her daughters, and I'm a family of three girls and a little boy. And my mom, because she used to be a basketball player, she did not want her girls to do any sports. And so she had us purposely go into the arts because of that.
And so I did piano, my big sister uh violin, I then did violin as well. My little sister did cello. And so being in the arts, it's very much about being presentable on stage and being very aware of like how you look. And so as a kid, I was very hyper-aware of that. And so my self-esteem took a big, big hit when I started getting cystic acne. It was like the thing that I kept searching for answers. So that's kind of why I went into a vegan diet to hopefully heal and also to lose the freshman 15 I was gaining in high school. So, it was just constant searching for health, uh, healing. Didn't get it from a vegan diet. In fact, I lost my period after uh, five years of veganism.
And sixth year, took a blood test. My doctor said, "You got to start supplementing heavy if you insist on staying vegan, or just start eating some meat." That was the wakeup call that I needed to hear. And I started searching online, vegan women eating meat. I had to know if there even were any. And there were actually a lot. In fact, that's how I ended up in the carnivore rabbit hole because people like Azra Kombloo at the time and another one, Kasumi Chris, they were ex-vegan turned carnivores. I felt like it was meant to be that I stumbled across their videos. Dive deep into carnivore rabbit hole. Watched all the interviews back then, and I decided to start. And I'm very, very, very happy with my experience on a carnivore diet. Uh, seven years now, and I don't plan on changing the diet or reintroducing foods just yet. Very happy with my results.
I mean, yeah, we've only known each other for a few years, and so I've only seen the porcelain skin, uh, very elegant shape, presence on stage as a, as just a beacon of health. So to imagine the scene before that, um, uh, it does ring true though. If I look at, um, you know, I have young boys, 20, 22, and 25, just now exiting the teenage years where you get lots of parents where you can see it in their skin. The skin is the first thing to say when you have that kind of acne, when you have recurring uh, eczema, it is a high insulin, high insulin, high insulin, high insulin. They don't, their their blood sugars are going to be normal, but their skin is a really big tell on what's going on. So, it, that tracks.
Um, when I was, you know, watching your after I got all the emails, I went back and carefully watched the video of sardines. We're going to talk about that. Uh, but there was a couple of spots that I want to just cross-check, uh, a better understanding. And one of them was that you said, "I've healed my gut." Uh, which leads me leads me to believe there was a gut part that wasn't so healthy. Um, tell me what that means in your story.
Yeah. So, I think the skin issues and my cystic acne was rooted from gut issues.
And so I, I was lactose intolerant, uh, my whole life, and I could not have milk or cheese growing up. I would always have extreme bloat, and then I noticed my skin would flare up as well. But somehow with a carnivore diet, I'm able to have cheese, butter, yogurt, kefir, cottage cheese, every single day.
Okay.
I wonder if it's because I choose to eat raw and unpasteurized versus pasteurized grocery store.
Or if my gut truly did heal and now I'm no longer lactose intolerant. Um, but I also think when I was vegan, my gut took a huge hit. It probably got even worse. Um, I still remember I would have a Buddha belly, basically 24/7, and just constant gas, bloating, indigestion, despite going number two, two times a day, still was bloated.
So now I, I like to just see how I feel, and of course, symptoms and everyday biomarkers like, how are my bowels, my energy, sleep, mood, how's the bloat now? No bloat. I could eat three pounds of meat a day these days. No bloat.
I mean, that's that's awesome. And, and again, a great tell was not a whole bunch of blood tests. It is, well, look at them. I was at a wedding over the weekend, and you know, you, I, I hide incognito. Uh, but then somebody says, "Oh my gosh, that's Dr. Vos." And so here comes a couple of questions, and they want to show me that they're bloated. And I'm like, you don't, I believe you. Who's going to know when they're bloated? The patient. They will know. It's this uncomfortable feeling that is not normal. And you don't need a blood test to tell you something's wrong. Something's not right there.
Uh, so how far into carnivore did the bloat go away?
I would say, uh, well, look, I had a lot of diarrhea when I first went carnivore.
Um, so I would say my first six months, I had loose stools. My body was still trying to figure out how to digest all the fat that I was eating. And so it was one side of me that couldn't stop eating the animal fats. I craved butter. I couldn't stop. I was eating like two sticks of butter a day when I first started. I was starving.
And the other side was me not knowing. My body was like, "What is going on? You were high carb, low fat vegan for 6 years, and now you're pounding in two, two sticks of butter a day." So despite all of that, though, I felt like my bloat was already going away, but it was crowded out by the fact that I had loose stools for so long. And obviously, I should have done a slow transition. I shouldn't have done vegan to carnivore overnight. I feel like that would have helped a ton. But because I'm very type A, and I'm so impatient, and I want the results, and I'm ready to go, I jumped right in.
Um, but after 6 months, I would say the digestion was great. Everything just kept going better and better.
And that's when I noticed the bloat was just non-existent. I would say half a year of consistent carnivore.
Yeah.
Right. Well, and I will tell you that I'm really impressed your doctor was was brave enough to say to a vegan, "Eat meat."
Yeah.
Like, they exist. There are people out there that say that brave stuff, like, no, you should eat meat. That was great. So, you, you save some people who do step into it. I think that they kind of suffer in the transition. I would have told you just keep going. You're going to get better. Your body will adapt. I mean, one of, uh, the parts that I think, uh, as I look at your story and several other people, uh, in this space is that you are beef and butter gal, so butter is on your menu. But is olive oil not an option, or just something you don't prefer?
You know, I feel like because I feel so good on animal foods only, I've been unwilling to introduce any food right now that isn't coming from an animal, that isn't pure carnivore. And so, it's just me wanting to maintain this amazing feeling that I'm experiencing. Um, fully healed, skin issues completely in remission, and just super energetic, sleep like a baby. Energy truly like I've never felt this much energy. So, I'm almost like, I don't want to dampen the results I have right now. I'm not too, too ready just yet.
Yeah. Well, so, yeah, in that sardine video, you are buying the ones that are in water and instead of putting olive oil on, which is easy, but butter is not hard. So, it's like your preference. I, I, plenty of people do that. That's not like against the rules or anything. Uh, and especially that if you had such a negative reaction, I'm actually kind of glad you kept the butter part safe. So, I didn't, we don't have to worry that it was caused by olive oil.
Uh, but in your experience, have you, haven't you really introduced olive oil to know that that's been a problem in the past or?
When's the last time you?
Never introduced olive oil yet.
Yeah. Not at all. The other part that's very interesting to me, and part of what I think will be a great discussion in what happens next in your story, is I didn't know there was such a thing as no-salt carnivore. Uh, tell me about that.
What is that? Tell me that.
Yeah. So, when I first, like, jumped into the carnivore rabbit hole, there was a small group of people. Uh, they were mostly on Facebook. In fact, they're the original carnivores. And they were talking about how salt on a carnivore diet is actually, uh, like a processed food. It's unnecessary. It should not be added in the diet. And so there were a couple of no-salt carnivore people, like Charles Washington, Dana Spencer, and Amber O'Harn is her last name.
Yeah. And they were saying how they feel amazing on no-salt carnivore. So I decided to just try it out as the way that I started, and I felt really good. So I kept it up. I even did experiments of adding in salt slowly, carefully, and I would always feel not as good.
And so the symptoms that I would feel when I added in salt when I first started carnivore was more lethargic. I would feel sleepy, heavy, lower energy, um, and also extremely puffy as well. And so because of those symptoms, I was like, "Yeah, I'll just go back to no-salt carnivore."
Hm.
And so I kept that up for a good five and a half years. It's when I started working out regularly that's when my body, I noticed, started craving salt.
So I listened, fed myself salt, and now I eat salt every day.
Okay.
Yeah. So, the night before, we're going to get to the story, folks, of what happens, but the night before this, uh, this to me infamous sardine challenge, you had a pretty hearty meal. And, um, it, I think it was a Brazilian steakhouse or something. So, plenty of food.
Does, I, I asked you somewhere in the notes, was that a pregame? Were you, is that pregaming, or is that a normal way that you usually eat? Like, the volume of food that you eat on a carnivore. Is that typical of what you did the night before?
I, I definitely eat a lot. Um, I think any, any, uh, table that I sit at, I'm usually the one that eats the most. I've always had a really healthy appetite. And I remember sitting next to Sean Baker at one of the meetups, and I was eating the same amount as him. So, I'm 5'10". I think he's 6'5". And so he's got like a hundred pounds of mass on you.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I, I think that was, so it wasn't like a special pre-game where I was trying to prepare myself for the fast. That's truly how much I typically eat.
Um.
Any, the, the thing that was different in that meal was I ate a lot more salt than usual.
I usually don't eat that much salt. In fact, I just salt to taste. I don't intentionally eat a ton of salt still to this day, but in that steakhouse meal, everything was salted a bit too heavily. And besides that, though, the, the quantity is about the same.
Oh, I think so. So, that, that tracks actually in the people who have no salt. I would be thinking,
Oh, how do you do it? It's found everywhere, especially at a Brazilian steakhouse. Uh, it'd be really hard to get a piece of their, you know, sliced off meat without salt on it.
Um.
Exactly.
Yeah. Right.
So, so let's get to the punchline. Uh, there is the, there was a sardine challenge. What made you lean in and say, "I'm going to do this thing?"
Yes. So, my best friend who lives like 10 minutes away from me, uh, was the inspiration. And of course, for years, Dr. Bos, I've had members of the Steak and Butter Gang request for me to try it so I could share my results, my experience, and also be able to support those who do sardine fast. And a lot of the members in my community love sardine fasting. And so, I was like, "Okay, this is the right time. I want to do it with my friend. We could keep each other accountable and share the progress." And I made a video. And the reason for my best friend to want to do it was she wanted to lose weight. And so she felt extra heavy, inflamed, and she went off track for a couple weeks. So she just wanted like a quick reset.
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. And for me, I don't need to lose weight. I don't want to lose weight. So I said, you know, I, I see a lot of videos and great reviews of the mental clarity from starting fast. So that was the motivating factor for me.
Um, and so, yeah, that's how it started. Yeah.
With, uh, the partnership in, in tow. And I think at the beginning, it, we'll link the video in the show notes to make sure everybody gets a chance to go watch this video, 'cause I'll be honest, I had to pause it at one point because it was, I was, I felt so sorry for you, like, "Oh, oh no. Oh no." So, you begin the sardine challenge. I think you weighed yourself at the beginning. Your friend weighed yourself, uh, herself, um, at the beginning, and you enter into the, uh, the vast world of eating sardines. Had you ever eaten one before?
I have always loved sardines.
Oh, good. Okay.
This, this was not my first time having it, and so I knew that it potentially could go really well.
Right.
Um, so the first meal, which I do see a lot of the comments telling me, Bella, you should not have eaten four cans of sardines in one sitting. I think what happened was it was so nutrient-dense, and probably the histamines as well, that my body couldn't handle four at once. But I think the logic behind why I ate four was I truly thought I could eat as much as I wanted and just stop when I was full. And so because I typically eat a lot of food in one sitting, I wasn't prepared for what I was going to feel eating four cans of sardines in one sitting. And I've never done that in my life. Four cans in one sitting. So I truly didn't prepare.
Yeah. One of, one of my questions in the background was, I've seen lots of people do experiments. I had a gal who was on sardines for a hundred days, and she also was just like, "I don't want to lose weight. I want to match the calories. I want to." So she was chasing calories as she added cans and then, uh, increased the fat to keep the calories high. So it wasn't really a calorie chase with you. It was status quo is a higher volume of food. So you were trying to match that based on your last seven years of experience eating.
Right.
Right. Yeah.
Correct. Yes.
And my last experience with, with a single food fast was an egg fast. And I actually loved my experience doing an egg, egg fast. This was around year three of my carnivore journey.
Um, and I, in one of the days, I ate 48 eggs in a day. So I thought I could do that with sardines.
Well, the logic I did it.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, there's there should be nothing wrong with that. I mean, the other part that I'm, is interesting in your history is in the past, you've not had a big histamine response from sardines. If you've eaten them before, if it was your first time ever eating sardines, that was, I will have my official recommendations at the end, but we'll answer questions along the way from you because I think there's lots of teachable moments here.
Um, you know, when we do, you know, I, the first time I did a sardine challenge was actually inside one of my classes, and nobody knew what was coming. And I, I did not want to put that in the advertising because I'm like, they'll run away if I tell them they have to eat sardines for 72 hours.
Uh, and so we do this, um, this, it is incredible in what it does for improving metabolism. We're going to get to what I think it did to you, and you've got some numbers to help me. We'll get to that in a minute. But as you, uh, watch the consumption of sardines, um, I did not have all these rules the first time I did a sardine challenge. And you cannot believe how many people broke the rules. They did things like, um, "Okay, my sardine fast is starting right now," and they would just water fast because they would had such an aversion to trying a sardine. So I'm like, "No, no, no. Your sardine challenge doesn't start until you eat the first sardine." Uh, preferably the whole can. I mean, like, you got to start. And then I capped it at the end because people would just, they would have less and less and less food, and they would get to the end of the, the time of the sardine challenge, and then they would gorge on anything but sardines.
So we said, "No, no, the sardine challenge begins with a can of sardines, and you end it on the 72nd hour by eating at least a half a can of sardines, and you got to finish it with sardines." Uh, and again, you can be in the wild to do this, but what's the motivation? Is this a very strong workout for your mitochondria? This is a very strong appetite satiety enhancement. And, you know, Nick Norowitz, right? Uh, he nerds out about plenty of things, and his, he's got a couple of blog posts over the last couple of few months saying, "I know the exact enzyme that rises when you eat sardines because it turns off your, your want for food in a way that," well, I mean, it's, it's very easy to see people just say, "No, no, no. I do not want food. I do not want food at all." And so as you're eating those four cans, um, when you look at, um, that desire for food, you definitely did not want to eat that night after you'd eaten that. But can you recall if hunger was still driving you as you were eating those four cans?
Yeah. So, uh, during that first four-can meal, I filmed the whole thing. And when I was editing and watching it back, I was, every single bite that I was eating was driven by, "I'm still hungry. I'm still hungry. I'm still hungry."
I think so, because I usually don't force myself to eat more than I'm hungry for. I've never done, I, I don't think I ever done that. There's times where emotion drives our eating, that distraction drives our eating, that, you know, even just like doing a video while the cameras watching you saying, "No, I said I would eat four cans, so I'm going to do that."
Um, and who knows if that made a difference, but what, what I like to hear is you say, "I don't think,"
I mean, when people feel like they shouldn't eat, you did not notice that on the first session.
'Cause I think it was the second session we're going to get to in a second where I'm like, "Huh, I can't watch. There's something primal here where I'm like, 'No, no, no, stop.'"
Yeah. Yes. Exactly. It was the second day where I truly felt like I was forcing myself. But then at the same time, though, maybe I was eating too fast during the first sardine meal, and I should have, I should have paced it a little bit slower so that I could allow my body to say, "Oh, two cans is perfectly enough. You should stop now, right?"
But I think I was really quite hungry.
And so I scarfed it down.
Right. And my best friend was telling me from all of the videos that she was watching from you that I should definitely supplement with some butter as the fat since I wasn't eating it with extra, uh, the olive oil, right? And so I wonder if it was just the combination of eating a lot of my butter,
And eating too, too fast.
Mhm.
Yeah, I think that that tracks. And the next part of the video talked about that you guys were sharing a Keto Mojo meter. So, did you have? So Keto Mojo, this little fellow checks glucose and ketones at the same time. You know, different strips. Uh, and correct me if I'm wrong, it was one of the first times you'd been checking to say, "Well, what are your numbers?"
Is that true?
That's true.
Okay. And your friend, had she checked before either?
No, that was also her first time.
Okay. So, you wake up on day two. Uh, yesterday was the first day of four cans. And you wake up and first thing in the morning, what was your glucose?
So, I need to check my notes. Let's see.
I think it was, yeah, there you go. 54.
Yeah. 54. Yeah.
Right. And the ketones you showed to the camera are like 1.9.
1.9. Mhm.
Right. So, you know, in the world of how, you know, what do I see in 24 hours of sardines only? Damn. You are metabolically flexible. You can drop that. When glucose gets into the 50s, uh, we get to say the word gluconeogenesis, which means the glucose in your circulation is just as much coming from you breaking down triglycerides and forming glucose. Uh, and one of the biggest predictors of gluconeogenesis is the blood sugars in the 50s. So, you got there. I have so many patients that they could fast for a week and don't see a glucose of 54.
Um, but you wake up in the morning and you check these numbers. How are you feeling at when that blood sugar was 54?
Not great. Very weak. I was already starting to feel like, uh, you know, I feel like I'm already not nourishing the way that I usually have been nourishing for seven years now.
And so it already felt a little bit off. And so I, I remember waking up feeling tired.
Right. Good signal.
Um, and then do you, did, did there was there any craving for salt that morning?
Uh, I just remember it was, uh, intense nausea.
So that was that was like the driving main symptom that I was feeling ever since. So I remember in the video, I started, I, I did an update right after my four-can first meal, and I was in the car, and I was updating everyone. "Oh, I feel this wave of nausea. I wonder why. This is interesting. I'll keep you guys posted." That wave of nausea subsided slightly the first evening. Woke up, and the nausea came back. So, it was just constant waves of nausea.
Um, and just an aversion already built the second day to the sardines.
Any diarrhea?
No. No di, no stools were passed.
Oh, see that's actually a really good sign. So, this will get to our gut health question. I'm, I'm sure you're going to ask. So, you look at that low blood sugar. Uh, other questions I would have loved to have you lean into was, um, you haven't checked blood sugars other days. What's a normal morning fasting blood sugar for you? Um, and then what, what's your blood pressure at this point?
I wore a CGM like half a year ago, and my normal blood sugar in the morning would always range from 70 to 80.
Okay.
Every day when I was wearing it. And blood pressure. Oh, I actually check it.
I don't know my usual.
You're too young. Who, who checks their blood? Are you out of your 20s yet?
I'm 29.
29. Okay. Who checks their blood pressure in their 20s? No one. No. So, you're perfectly normal, but I would have been curious because by this point, I know at the end, you end up losing, uh, something like sevenish pounds. 7, 8 pounds.
Yeah. Seven or eight. Okay. So, how much had you lost by the first day?
I don't think I weighed myself after the first day. I, I definitely weighed myself before starting and after.
After. Okay. And did the fast?
Okay. All right. Well, uh, we'll get to that in just a second, too, because I think, um, the second day, those symptoms of of 54 blood sugar, feeling punk, feeling tired, like I've been sleeping and I want to just stay here, all give us a signal. And then, uh, you then say, "I'm going to try to get four more cans down." And you have a very creative way of getting sardines to be a little different than yesterday. So tell them what you did.
Yeah. So I air-fried the sardine. First, I mashed it into a nice flat pancake shape on some parchment. Threw it in my air fryer and did a little crisping up of this sardine. And I did it at the highest, yeah. Did it at the highest temp for, I think, like 15 minutes and took it out. It was nice and crispy, so at least I had the crunch factor instead of the mushy, wet sardine.
That's what I did.
Excellent. Well, as I look at four more cans for that day, this is when I had to pause the video where I'm like,
"Oh,
look at her face. Look at how much she hates what's like there is danger, danger. Stop."
Why don't you share how you felt because I'm, I'm guessing it's similar to what I was watching.
I think this is where my overachiever part of me kicked in.
Yeah.
Yeah. Dr. Bos, I didn't want to, didn't want to quit, and I didn't want to disappoint. So, and also my best friend was like motivating me. She was like, "Let's do it. Let's keep doing it." And so, we, we kind of pushed each other to keep going with day two. And what I felt was again, like, just this strong aversion. I, I, I can't stomach the sardine flavor, the smell, but because it was crispy, I wanted to give it one more shot and maybe it's going to taste a little bit better. Let's try. Let's do it.
And like my friend, she did the same thing on the side. She was eating it with me, and she added lots of hot sauce to help her improve the palatability. Yeah. Um, so,
She, no, she did not. Yeah. Her appetite's not on my level. So, I think her first day, she did one in the morning and then another one later in the day.
Okay.
And yet still, she also still had like the nausea and the aversion the next day. So, I was like, "Interesting. So, she's feeling the same thing as me, and she didn't eat as much as me." So, I wonder, could it be because we don't have a lot to heal, or we don't really need to bring down our insulin to too much?
That maybe it wasn't just the right, the right time for us. But yeah, I just had an insane aversion to sardines. The crunchiness did help a little bit.
Yeah. To eat it. It said afterwards, though, that the list of symptoms that you had that night, or you must have eaten it like mid-afternoon or something.
Yeah, it was.
Now it's the sec, the end of the second day, and you've got you got a list of symptoms like you're nauseous. You do not want to eat a thing, and there's some tummy pain happening, a little gas, or just not something uncomfortable in your stomach.
Um, so let's start with all those, and then we'll go to the next side effect to talk about that.
Yeah. So, um, I did have gas the first day after eating those four cans of sardines. Yes. Um, I kept passing gas, and I, I was, I was very taken aback by that because on a carnivore diet, I don't pass gas. I have really great digestion. I don't have bloat or indigestion ever.
So those four cans of sardine giving me sudden gas was interesting. And I do remember sharing that as like an observation in the video. And I think also I felt just extreme loss of appetite the, the rest of the first day. No appetite. I even told myself in the car when I was doing the update, "I might, I most likely will be hungry again for dinner. So I can't wait to do some more sardines. I'll keep you guys posted." By the time it was dinner, 9:00 p.m., 10:00 p.m., even still no appetite. Wasn't hungry at all.
Right? So, now you're at the end of the second day. You've got some almost like aversion to eating, and then you start to have some shivering or freezing feeling, just by living in the desert of Las Vegas.
Yeah. I was wrapped up in blankets. I was already starting to feel very cold. Um, low body temperature, probably because I just didn't eat enough. And it's so interesting because four cans of sardines, I think, is a couple hundred, maybe just under 1,000 calories with the butter, just under 1,000. And typically, as a 7-year carnivore, I am eating anywhere from 2,500 to 3,500 calories. I'm eating a lot, a lot, a lot.
But at the same time, I'm also moving my body. I never like really sitting down. I do meetings standing up if I can, and I'm working out, walking, doing steps, sunshine, all of it. So that's why I was so confused. I only ate four cans of sardines during day one, but I don't have appetite to eat more.
Well, I, I will tell you, I, I have a couple of very big theories of what was happening. And I do think it is, it is so fun to see this. I, I was sharing with you before we started that each Tuesday morning, I meet my folks over at the at the bowling alley called the Pinchasers. And so this is a little support group where I answer questions, and I had them watch your video last night and said, "Okay, ask me questions about what you think happened there." And of course, everyone in the room has gray hair and years of insulin resistance.
Uh, and to have a young, uh, you know, 20-something with, um, with some symptoms that I think, um, I'll, I'll, I'll lend my opinion here when I get, uh, to the next step and let you ask all the questions you want. Uh, because that comparison of, uh, what do I think is happening if I had all the money in the world and I was able to check your labs and and and ask you to do sardines again for 48 hours, uh, what do I think I could, I could spot, uh, and what do I think is happening at a mitochondria level?
Uh, yeah, that second evening being filled with the, the nausea, gas, freezing, and then melancholy. And I think that's something that I want to make sure to hear. Uh, like, just low energy, lack of joy, like that you said in one part of your video. And,
Uh, just a depressive kind of feeling. Is that, is that bedtime? Is that evening? Is that kind of following the symptoms of nausea? What do you think? Where did that hit?
I think it was the just the concept of, "Oh, I have another like 48 hours to go, and I want to finish this. I want to reach the finish line fully and not quit." And so it was me grasping the thought of, "I can't eat my usual steak and butter for another two full days." I think that's where it was stemming from. Feeling a bit depressed. I mean, it's not real depression. It's just feeling sad and like, "Ugh," you know?
No, not real. Exactly. But, and that's, but it, it's real, like,
Uh, you're going to, when I, when we do this, I'll explain this in a minute. I want to try to not give it away. Uh, one last, uh, comment before we, uh, let turn the microphone over to you and let you have all the questions you want to ask me. Uh, so that third morning, you wake up and you're like, "This is dangerous. I'm done. I'm breaking my fast." Talk about that moment.
Yes. That was the evening of the third day. I think it might have been, yeah. Late night. Not evening. Late night. And I had, um, like one, a couple more hours, like 8 more hours to go to reach the full 72 hours starting from the time that I ate my first sardine meal. That's how I counted it.
And so at that time, I was really starting to feel, um, I couldn't fall asleep. That, I think, was the last straw. I distinctly remember in bed, 10:00 or 11:00 p.m., had zero feeling of being sleepy. I knew that if I kept going, I would not be able to sleep until possibly 3:00 or 4:00 a.m.
And the next morning, I had a lot of things on the schedule, and I needed to be alert for. So, I was like, "This is no longer worth it." I'm going to document this, film it, so it's part of the video experience. And I think I was also hangry. I was definitely hangry.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I like to use that word when I'm hungry and a little bit irritated.
So, I was starving. I was freezing as well. So, at that time, I was freezing. And it's, yeah, Vegas, you're right. Desert. It's hot. It's, it's about 80 degrees outside during that day. And I was freezing.
Yeah. And so the last straw was I couldn't fall asleep. I was feeling hangry and really quite grouchy. Yeah.
Well, I can't wait to answer your questions. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll bring her right back. I want, uh, you guys to know that there is a big announcement in our company. First of all, we are, uh, doing a lot of great things on our website to try and answer your questions better, smarter, faster. Uh, but one of the peak seasons that we are at is to open up our second, um, class for the six-week, uh, metabolic reset. Uh, again, many of you, uh, have been to the 21-day, have looked at the 21-day. Uh, I only do that twice a year because much like Bella, I'm intense. I want to do things hard, fast, and to the fullest extent. And when I teach people a ketogenic diet, uh, that 21-day metabolic experience is one of the best, uh, places to learn it, to journey through that experience with me, with my coaches, and we do it live and in person across Zoom, but live and in person with these support groups. We heard from you that most of you cannot be that intense. Uh, that many of you have jobs that you cannot give me 15 hours a week for those three weeks to do that. Uh, that many of you need a little slower upramp to get the, um, to get this information into your brains. And that, well, it turns out a few of you are not as intense as, as I am, and that the slower pace, a little more guidance and coaching, a little longer time to relate to the community that we have there, uh, in the six-week. We did the first one, it, uh, ended, um, yesterday, or excuse me, ended last week, and we, uh, these, um, uh, these comments. I think I'm going to read them out loud because I think they are so helpful.
Uh, these are all students who just graduated and said, "If you have heard of the expression, take an axe to the root, it applies to this class with understandable medical terms. The lessons offer, offer multiple options to attack a real metabolic problem rather than treating it as a manifesting symptom." Another woman wrote in and said, "Uh, I've been following Dr. Vos's keto continuum program on my own for about two months before the six-week program was offered. I had a conflict where I couldn't do the 21 days. So I feel I really feel that the six-week metabolic reset was better. I, being able to really get to know the people in the forum in the six-week program and easing into the sardine challenge and the two different water fasts really were beneficial for me. Uh, my plantar fasciitis and my osteoarthritis pain is completely gone after six weeks, and I've lost 15 pounds. Now, this is a real testimony that talks about what happens when you reverse inflammation, uh, and especially when you've had it long enough, inflammation long enough to cause plantar fasciitis. Uh, I didn't nearly do that well doing it on my own for two months, and in six weeks, she had all of those, uh, improvements. I found a support group to join, and I really look forward to that keeping me on track to stay keto for life. Thank you, Jillian, Dr. Bos, Tina, Judy, and all the people who help build this course." One more review because I think this is the best one. "This class is worth every penny. After doing a carnivore diet, watching YouTube videos, and following Dr. Bos's keto continuum for 4 months, I was quite full of myself. I thought that was funny, too, and not sure if I would learn very much. I learned so much with the teaching from Jillian and Dr. Bos and the team provided. I broke a weight loss stall, got my morning ketones to go up and stay up, completed two water fasts, and learned how to quiet my mind before bed with silly hand signs. Such a great experience with a truly amazing team."
Yeah, I want to say this, uh, the process of, you know, launching a course, and finding, uh, a delivery for people who want to get healthy, but do not need to come see a doctor. You just need the lessons in a group where you can ask the questions that, that we have answers to. Um, and I just feel really proud of the team for how well they've done, uh, to help me say, "Yes, we can do this in a better way for the rest of the audience." Twice a year with the kind of people that Bella and I are, intense people, it's leaving out a lot of you. And, uh, if you're looking at some of the price points, we know that, uh, $2,500 is a lot to put forth to your health. And if you can't justify that, the cost of this, uh, class is more than half off of that price. And we just found a great, a great price point, a great, uh, deliverable, and the pace that really seems to fit a different, uh, a different profile of an audience.
All right, so let's get back to Bella. Uh, some of the most important lessons, I think, are when patients say, "Hey, tell me about this." So, let's give the microphone to you and say, "Uh, ask away some of your questions."
Yes. So, my first meal, did I truly eat too much? Should I have started slow and one can at a time?
One, one of my, uh, biggest, you know, the first time I did a 21, 21-day metabolic kick, I had 200 people eating only sardines for three days. So much different than when you see patients one-on-one, and you kind of gather stories over the course of a year. When you have 200 people at once, this side effect I saw a lot, that they were super worried that they were going to be hungry, and they overate sardines.
But one of, one of the other side effects that you didn't have, that many people, I mean, I worried about a histamine response when I was starting to watch that, "Oh, she's she's feeling punked because of that." A histamine response. It happens for many reasons, but it almost always comes with diarrhea. So, that your bowels did not move for those three days. Say that's probably not a histamine response. There's a little hack out there that I teach patients, uh, to say you can often see a histamine response. You can often see an allergy, a true allergy to sardines by, you know, those scratchers that you clean dishes with, that's kind of plasticky scratchers. I tell them to take that to their wrist and kind of scratch their skin till it's a little red, and then mush up the sardines, put a little like tablespoon of it on your skin, and put Saran wrap around it, plastic wrap around it, and sleep with it for 12 hours. And if you wake up the next morning and it's swollen, irritable, and itchy, it's a, that's an allergy, and that's a hint that histamine responses. I mean, histamine happens for lots of reasons. So, it's, it's a little one-off for the histamine response. So, just a good idea for folks that are out there saying, "Should I do this? I don't want to have that happen what Bella did."
Uh, I, I also just think you have such an interesting perspective, and I've seen it before, but you, you tell your story openly, so it's just so nice to use this as a teachable moment that,
when you came into a space, uh, of carnivore, you were very sick. Um, I've seen those patients, and man, your turnaround in six months is miraculous. Uh, in fact, I'm really thankful your doctor said, "Eat meat," and then you did your, you know what, you can say your personality, but no, you just went all in because it really is that intense improvement in nutrition that allowed you to reverse those things. And when I look at the depth of, of illness that, um, I mean, eczema for 10 years says you were excessively producing insulin. Uh, you have, what's your, um, where does your, what's your origin of like, is your family Korean, Chinese? Uh, so again, high lean bodies with high insulin production, really common.
And they don't show up obese. They show up with skin problems, and they show up with bloating. So you're like, right on script for what this is, high insulin.
This is high insulin, and then they stop having their period. I mean, the the level of disease that you had acquired, uh, in years of excess insulin. Insulin. And God bless your mother, because nobody teaches them that that's what they should be looking for. Their insulin, um, excess is inheritable, but it's also because of the way they're eating food and, you know, they're living American life, stressful. And that that reset that happens during the depth of a good night's sleep, they just cannot reset it.
So by the time you got to that carnivore diet, I would say, all push all chips onto the table. You did what I would tell you to do. And that reversal of disease, um, is in part because the volume of food was satisfying and was healthy for you. So to then say, well, this is how I got better, I should do that in the sardine challenge. Um, is very easy to understand how you would have come to that conclusion. But the bolus of that much, um, again, Nick Norowitz is not wrong that you are pushing on a couple of levers that are going to turn off the idea of food.
And when I'm doing this to my pinch chasers, you know, the folks with gray hair and and they've got the waistlines to prove that insulin has been just wrecking their health, we put them on a sardine challenge. And, you know, what we're trying to address is food noise. We're trying to say, stop asking for food. And I'm not saying that this is a willful thing. I'm saying it's a hormonal setting in their body that if we can increase those hormones in their brain, they will settle down. They will stop craving the food. The food noise gets better. Much like Ompic and Trosepide and what Reducide will be delivering, those that hormonal wave, it it shuts it down. Sardines do that incredibly. Um, to do that in a young, lean, um, maybe there's a little insulin. We're going to get to what I think your insulin was doing. Um, so if there's a quiver of excess insulin, it is gone by the end of the first, uh, can of sardines. But by the fourth one, you are overshooting on these hormones, and you have you have you are ringing. You are diarasing because of all the other shifts that you're doing in, uh, what those sardines did to your body.
So, did you overeat it? I I don't want to. I mean, you learned so much about you, but I get to teach through that thing. If you're, you know, 80 pounds overweight, you've been insulin resistant for 20 years, and you're asking, is four four cans too much? The answer is probably not. Uh, you can see people who've eaten four or five cans. They're almost always a history of of excessive food noise, whether that's from that's their favorite way to soothe themselves, a food addiction, um, you know, type 2 diabetic where food every two hours has been what they've done for 15 years. And now I'm trying to say, twice a day is all I want you to eat. And they're just like, "How do I get the noise to go away?" And you will see that dramatically lower with these hormones that you're going to stimulate in a sardine consumption. Uh, you probably needed a little tickle to those hormones, and you gave a tsunami to your body.
So, yeah, in the next one, I would say, don't go so fast. Uh, don't have so much at the beginning. But do I think it was harmful? No. I think it's a product of what happens when you haven't flexed those hormones in a in a serious way like that, and then you you lived in the aftermath of that.
Right. That makes a lot of sense. Is there a way to do a sardine fast without losing weight but reaching the mental clarity benefit?
Right. Well, so this is the part that I think is my favorite about you. Is that I put this in my notes. I think it's the next one. Yeah. There is a hint that seven pounds in essentially the consumption of sardines was about 48 hours. Now you have this aftermath. In fact, when we're doing the 200 students in the 21 day, I tell the students the most impressive day for numbers is the day after the challenge. Like, you get up the next morning, and you're eating eggs in the middle of the night. Be. So think of that as that third day where you're you're eating. And it's those numbers that are just impressive where we see a metabolic flex, a metabolic kick. And when I see seven pounds down in 48 hours, uh, let me just be a little provocative. Do you think that was seven pounds of fat?
I doubt it.
Right. Yeah. I doubt it. Yeah. It was seven pounds of fluid.
And so when I look at your story, and you said something about, uh, reasons I might do the 21 or might do a sardine challenge is I had a puffy face one day. And of course, everybody looks at your face and says, "You're lying. It looks gorgeous to me." But ask every woman what it feels like to have a puffiness in their face, and you're like, "Oh, I know that feeling. I know that feeling." Okay. And there was an ankle like, "Oh, my ankles were swollen the other day."
Yes.
And so you say, "Why does that happen?" Um, there's two big reasons that happens. Number one is an excessive production of insulin.
So, I was telling the pinchasers this morning, if you lined me up with 50 other internal medicine physicians, and we all had to say, "Is Bella insulin resistant?" They they would look at every one of your numbers. They would look at your age. They would look at your figure. They would and they'd say, "No, she's not insulin resistant." And I would say, she's insulin resistant adjacent. She's right next to that. Now, you gave me a little more evidence of that when you were telling me about your your origin of acne and lost your period and, you know, that that heaviness of brain fog that just went away into the best performance of your life at, you know, Juilliard high brain, you know, cognitive blah blah blah, all the stuff.
Yep. Okay. So, that tells me years of excess insulin, and then it went away, or, you know, very low in a carnivore space. And if I could fast forward your world, what to 20 years from now, when you're, you know, hitting your 50s, you say, well, can she have the same porcelain skin, the lack of medical problems, can she stay away from the things that end up in my medical clinic? And the answer is, as long as she's not losing eight pounds in 48 hours with a sardine fast, that is a that is a signal that if if I were to look at the cells, let's just take the cells in your gut. Uh, they're supposed to be perfectly tight, like I've got my fingers. But in reality, when there's a little excess insulin, there's this tiny little space in between the cells. And if you send the pathologist in to say, "Prove there's fluid be in between the cells of her body," Uh, they would go in, get the biopsy, send it to pathology, and they'd say, "No, we can't see a thing." But it's just like that, a woman can feel when their face is swollen. I mean, it's a little bit of ankle swelling, and you're like, ah, it's nothing. It's nothing. And you can you can be funny and say, "Oh, she's getting older." No, she's in her 20s, folks. You can't say that yet. Um, but what you did see is a massive loss of fluid in 48 hours while she was shivering, while her body was going through a metabolic switch. That was a workout, a a great workout for your mitochondria. That the best part about what you experienced in that, um, 21 or in that, um, sardine challenge was you shot your glucose to the perfect number, if you ask me. 54. Says gluconeogenesis. I win. She's there. Great. Now her body has to use ketones to get through the next few hours. And unfortunately, um, there was another side effect happening, and that was this loss of fluid was happening because of what insulin was doing before you started. And this is how I know you're insulin resistant adjacent, where you're like, "Oh, if you look around my pinchasers, they've been having problems for 25 years." And if I would go back to the beginning, they would have little bitty problems like, ah, ring around the ankle, or their blood pressure is a little higher than I want, or brain fog happens. Uh, you know, these little symptoms that you can blame on the weather changing. But when they do it over and over and over again, it is the excessive production of insulin. By slight, if if I would do a fasting insulin in you, it look perfect. If I would do check your insulin after a bunch of carbs, it still would probably be perfect. What I'm seeing is just enough excess insulin that you retain sodium at the level of the kidney. So that is one of the side effects or the effects of insulin. As insulin goes up, it's going to hold on to sodium at the level of the kidney, which keeps the fluid in circulation. So, a higher volume that your heart is pumping around your body, and it will leak out into those cells. Just a hint. Especially at your age, it's so tiny that again, I would have 50 other internists up here arguing that's not true, that's not true, that's not true. And my evidence that it is true is she lost 7 pounds in 48 hours. Her glucose went to gluconeogenesis, and her ketones, and at the end, were like 3 point something, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So, this this was a huge churn of improve those your mitochondria got a really good workout, and you diarased. You put out fluid, and the replacement of that fluid was pro was my guess why you didn't feel so good the second morning. Yes, that glucose was low, but you had ketones at 1.9. Yeah, you probably weren't going to feel great, but you would have felt a lot better if you'd been saluting your way through that. That would be my biggest recommend to say, if you ever do this again, you're going to salt the heck out of those things because, you, that fluid, you, you need, you're going to, it's going to leave your body. You're still going to lose the water weight. You say, "But I don't want to lose weight." I'm telling you, you're not going to lose weight from a 48-hour anything.
What you are going to do is push those mitochondria. That's why you were shivering. Um, have you ever held a baby that's shivering?
No.
Oh, it's it's an interesting thing. So, their brown fat regulates their body. So, you get them out of a bathtub, and if the water was chilly, and they shiver, it is their brown fat keeping them warm, and it is a very primitive, primal thing, but their mitochondria are protecting them. As we get to be adults, we don't do that very much unless you push that, you push that, uh, switch to fuels rapidly in a 48-hour period like you did. So the shivering, the coldness was a signal. Oh, she's doing great. Get to the other side of it. You're doing great. Those new mitochondria are going to last for six weeks.
Wow.
And if I look at the recommendation of, you know, what what the excess insulin is, it's a sliver. You're right. I would probably never win to say you are insulin resistant, but do I think your body was making more insulin than it should have been over the course of say, six months? Um, and then when you did sardines, it slammed down. It's not producing excess insulin. So now you are in a a deficit, if you would, compared to what you were. And that, fluid shift is the same thing that happens to people who get the keto flu when they first go from, you know, a bunch of carbs, lower the blood sugar, lower the insulin, and they do not like you those first couple of days, especially if they're not used to eating salt.
Right.
Oh.
Mhm.
That makes sense. Could it, when you were explaining that, could it be because I am not zero carb carnivore? I actually eat kefir, cottage cheese, and yogurt every day. Yes, they're all raw, but I eat a lot of them every day. And then suddenly I went sardines only, no carbs whatsoever, even if it came from animals.
Right.
Could it be that?
So, how many carbs do you think you have in a day?
Hm. What? I don't even track. But how many grams of carbs do you think are in a whole like bottle of cottage cheese? Um,
probably of a good 30. Yeah, 30 to 50. I mean, we could have we have fans here that would absolutely tell us that in an answer. Uh, but I would bet that it's more than you think. And when I if you said if, if you were going to do a challenge, it wouldn't be so hard on you. It would be lower the insulin, um, not so dramatically. I mean, you're young. You don't need to do it this hard. When they're 100 pounds overweight, they got heart disease happening, and their dementia is about to hit them. I'm telling you, you game on. There's no more wasting time here. We have work to do. We don't have that urgency in a in a healthy young lady like you. Uh, and I would say, you know, the the other place that I leaned in looking at your story, wondering because I've seen it many times, is when you had the lack of joy. This was my next idea. The lack of joy on that second night, like, I don't I don't want to do. I don't want to like my crabby little, you know, eight-year-old girl in me just says no. That's exactly how I can imagine, and I've been there. I I know this feeling. And then the joy that. So tell the people what you ate when you broke the fast in the middle of the night again.
Yes. I had beef bone broth and I poached eggs in the beef bone broth and I ended up having well over 12 in that meal alone. I was so hungry.
Right. And the joy of food is the other part where I'm like, I wonder if that, uh, is is part of your story. It might not be part of your story, but I know it's out there where when they've gone carnivore, their bodies are getting much better, but where I see them, uh, overeat is it is still this place of joy that that food delivers for them. And when you take that away, it means to not deliver joy. Uh, and so to get to the end of it, and you got to that second one, and you're like, "Screw you guys. I hate this. I don't want to do this. I'm I get you."
Exactly. But I I would look at that shift of, um, you know, what is the difference between the height of, um, of pleasure from food and and you just, you have such an amazing story that I I mean, I really see people where you were at if you hadn't gone carnivore. I mean, the next thing, you know, they've got fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, POTS disease. They they've got every chronic high insulin thing that was there. And you slammed that down with a carnivore diet. I mean, incredible healing. And your story teaches so many people. And then what comes next is you have this in this really hearty appetite that you get joy, not because it just healed you, but because it really nourishes you. So when you hop into this section of three days where you ain't getting any joy, I don't get joy from. No.
Yeah.
And so you say, and then you add them back, and it's just, I mean, I've been there too. I love it. I love it. I love it.
And I would I would look in the mirror on that like, oh, um, chasing the joy of that can be dangerous. Um, and it has nothing to do with chemistry. It has to do with the psychology of when you take away the hormones that are related to the insulin that you are clearly stimulating when you're eating the carbs that most people say is not a problem. But with your history of excess insulin and that seven-pound weight loss, I think there is excess, um, um, production.
Got it.
You know, there, there's a shift there. There's a psychological something that I would I would look carefully at saying, "Okay, um, so if I was going to have you do it again, um, here are my recommendations." Uh, first of all, I'd check the histamine response. That's the thing on the on the wrist. But the other thing I would, yeah, tell you to do is, um, I would, I'm going to send you a meter, a Mojo meter for you and your friend, so that you both have your meters, because I would check your morning fasting numbers for six weeks. This is not something you need to do forever, but much like what you learned on that CGM when you wore it, you're too healthy to see anything go wrong with your sugar. What you will see is as so so looking at glucose and ketones at the same time is that GKI that you mentioned at the end of your of your video. If you do dirty math and take the big number divided by the little number, uh, this is how I helped my mom when she was her brain was too foggy to do all that math. So when that Dr. B number is lower, the insulin is lower. When the Dr. Bos number is higher, the, um, the insulin is higher. So in somebody who is insulin resistant adjacent, you, the only way you'll be able to see this is first thing in the morning, get me a few weeks of just saying, "What's normal for Bella? What's normal for Bella?" And I'm I'm going to guess, but having taken care of a lot of people who end up seeing me 20 years from where you are right now, I'm going to guess that you make more insulin than you're supposed to. And if you chase the numbers just enough to get that Dr. Bos ratio under 100 two days out of seven, you are ringing out a little bit every week. That you can do that with a carnivore diet. You can do that with less, you know, kefir. Uh, you can do that by lowering your insulin enough to hit that Dr. Bos ratio of less than 100. Two days out of seven, first thing in the morning, is all that counts. If you check it later on in the day, that's fine for your information, but that's not how to reverse the problem or prevent it from ever getting there, which is where I think you're at. And if you were in better mitochondrial shape, meaning you say, "All right, you're not going to touch sardines for six weeks." You are going to get the numbers to say at least two days out of the week, hit a Dr. B ratio of 100 or less, which means you had to bop your ketones up just enough to diarice to to ring out that inflammation. Well, now you've got a different metabolism in six weeks. And if you did a sardine challenge again in six weeks, I bet you wouldn't have these. You're going to salt on the on the first day, and you're not going to overeat on the first day, but I bet you would have a metabolic response of this euphoric experience that you hear all these other knuckleheads getting that you didn't get.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay.
Mhm.
This is great.
All right.
I will definitely keep all of this in mind. Yeah.
So, I took over a little bit there at the end. Are there other questions that I've not landed on as as you've thought them through?
So for my best friend, she has a lot of weight to lose. Uh, she she claims that she would like to lose like 25 lbs. And so then for her, where she paced it well, how come she had similar symptoms?
Yeah. So I would be looking at what was her morning glucose before she started and then her morning ketones. I bet her morning glucose was higher than yours. Uh, it's she's got more insulin resistance that most my patients where they have that excess weight to to lose. It's that sardine challenge is a challenge by the end of the third day, they do have a new crop of of mitochondria helping them, but in the midst of that, especially if they've not been checking, if those numbers drop really glucose drops really from like that 95, 100 into that 80 into that 70, that's a big drop for glucose, which which is a big drop for insulin, and that's where all those electrolytes go out of the body. They feel punk, and they're not keeping up with that.
Again, what I would tell her to do is she's going to take the little kit that I send you, and we will, um, uh, have you both check numbers in the morning. If she's trying to lose weight, I would have her Dr. Bos ratio stay less than 80. And so she's got to be a little more aggressive in pushing that metabolism. Now, you don't need sardines to do that, but you do, um, I mean, you will have different rules. You and your best bestie can have accountability, but she's not a Chinese descent, or maybe I don't know if she is or not, but she probably doesn't have that baggage, and she's probably not, you know, lean and a BMI of 21 or whatever you are. And with that 20 extra pounds, she has a different chemistry set.
So, to crack the code, she will see it every morning in those numbers. And you don't need to do it for the rest of your life. But once you see, "Oh, I can't eat the way Bella does, my numbers go crazy in the morning if I eat that late."
And well, ladies, welcome to 54. Like, the rules change on you. Dang it. So, yeah.
Got it. Wow. And then another question is, can I apply your sardine trick with other foods?
Yeah, honestly, I've seen that with a lot of patients. So, you've ever gone to an allergist, and they prick your back, and they give you these little, right? Well, they do this thing, right? They take a little protein from a bee, and then a a peanut, and eggs, whites, and then they prick all these things on your back, and they say, "Well, which of them makes the biggest welt?" So, they're looking for a histamine response. Well, you can do that. It's not that hard. You You do have to abrade the the skin, though. It has to have a a broken barrier. So, it's that little scratch pad, that green scratch pad that, and it does need to be a little red when you do this. Apply the food, and then wrap the saran wrap on it. Now, it's not perfect, but it's a if it turns positive, it's a really strong sign that's a real allergy that you're fighting. I'm a big proponent that you can undo these allergies when the immune system gets healthier, when the gut gets less permeable, but that's a dangerous thing to play with when you're giving advice on YouTube, right? Learn the allergy in a way that's not going to kill you. It might give you a red spot, but there's a, you know, a histamine response there. Um, but it teaches the patient, again, take ownership of this. Check it yourself. If it's a really big response and you need a diagnosis to get some prescription medicine, well, then you're going to have to go get your back prick. But if you're just trying to adjust the foods that you eat, and you wonder, "Am I allergic to this dang thing? It gives me this terrible feeling every time I eat it." It's a good little trick. Amazing.
Wow. Well, thank you for explaining everything. I definitely Janelle and I, my friend's name is Janelle. She's Caucasian, and she's 5 years older than me. We definitely want to try this again and do it the way that you advised.
Yeah. Well, you should invite me on your channel after the next time. We'll see how.
Yes, that's the plan.
All right. Well, once again, I I can't tell you how how much of a privilege it is to have other leaders in the space doing such great work, and I want to honor what you do. Make sure folks that if you don't follow Bella, get over there and do that. She's coming up on a million subscribers, and that's a big moment in YouTube. So, let's help her get there. Uh, for the rest of you, I do want you to know that that cart is open for the next week for this, uh, this class, and unless we sell them out, because we are over halfway sold out. I've seen about seven sales come across as we're on this show. So, we have about, uh, just a few dozen spots left before we'll close the class. Uh, we keep the classes small enough that we can take care of you. So, uh, that does mean that the time when the cart's open, you push purchase or wait till the next class, which will not be till October, because the 21-day is coming up next. All right, folks. Uh, this class starts next week, and we will see everybody on the live show next week. Once again, thanks for our, uh, our guest tonight.