Transcription
Welcome everybody. It is Tuesday night live here on the Dr. Bos channel, and we have one of my favorite guests of all time, Dr. Kenberry. Great to see you. Thanks for coming over to this channel.
I was looking at when we just did this and it was five years ago.
Yeah.
Unbelievable. That that's that's my fault and your fault. There's no excuse for that.
Right? It it is. You can say we both have stood the test of time that it can wear you out. Uh, you learn only take on a few of those live events because you're exhausted for a week afterwards. Uh, but uh, I was looking back at some of the things where when you study your audience, uh, what my audience uh is very well aware of is Kenberry, and what your audience probably is aware of is Dr. Bos.
Absolutely. Yes.
So I, uh, very often in in our private lives, I'll get, "Well, Dr. Bos said."
Oh, yeah.
And and I'm always like, "Yeah, Dr. Bos is right." And and I hope that that's usually what you get to say. I don't know, but I hope so.
No, no, it's good. I mean, I I think when I was reaching out saying, "Well, is there something we differ on?" Uh, I just did a a podcast the other day with Dr. Cyus, and I think he, it hasn't published yet, but I think he was trying to say, "I gotta, I gotta," and in the end, we couldn't hardly find a thing that if you really had an honest conversation that we differed about. So, uh, that's the that was the premise of inviting you on to say, "Look, uh, two people who've been in the space the longest. Uh, I I think everybody knows who you are and what, uh, the answers to some of these questions are, but I would love for you to say, uh, so I picked some some like headlines that I think we match on at the beginning, and then we'll see if we have any differences."
But the first one is, are you a first-generation physician?
I am. Yes. Okay. Uh, I'm actually, far as I know, first-generation college graduate. I think my my dad went to college, but he didn't graduate. Uh, a a kid came along and a and you know, a wife, and so, yeah, uh, but I'm first-generation college graduate and first-generation, uh, doctor. Yes.
Yeah. I'm first-generation four-year college. My dad went to a two-year college for, uh, carpentry, and my mom was an X-ray tech, and then they were farmers. Uh, when people say, "Why'd you go to med school?" I said, "I I come from a dynasty of hog farmers, and there has to be a better smelling way to do things."
Yeah. And then you got in med school in residency, and you're like, "Well, there's still some smells involved here, but not as bad as a hog farm."
Right. You can you can mitigate, and you're you're going to get away from it eventually if you.
Exactly.
Right. Well, yeah. Looking at, uh, first-generation physicians, I think, uh, did any of your children go into medicine?
So, uh, no, I've got an attorney. I've got a, uh, a mathematical analyst that works in DC, and I've got a nurse. Well, I've got a nurse, and then, um, I've got Abby Grace, who's my social media manager, and then Becket and Bonnie are still too little. But yeah, so I have a nurse that I that's the closest I got.
Yeah. I I've told all my kids there's way better ways things to go into. It's like the most regulated industry out there. Uh, you can help people without being a physician. I I love it, but, uh, I love it, uh, in what we did with it, which is we kind of got out of it.
So, I picked another topic, which is, uh, farming, family, and faith. So, talk about how I mean, I know I see on some of your your, um, your YouTube that you're you're into farming these days. Talk about that.
Yeah, so I I grew up on a really small farm, uh, with my grandparents, and then I wanted nothing but to get completely away from farming and never ever set foot on a farm again. Uh, and then Nisha and I were living in the a suburb of Nashville, and 2019 happened, and then 2020 happened, and, uh, Nisha's grandfather had just went to heaven and left her this farm, and and I I said, "You know what? I think we need to move back to the farm." And she said, "You know what? I've been thinking the same thing. Let's get out of this city." And, uh, so we moved back to the farm, and and it took her about a year and a half to really be okay with it. But I was okay with it from day one. And I will never live in a city again by choice. I will always be as deep out in the woods as I can be in in West Tennessee. That's my happy place. And and I think it's so funny how it's full circle. Like I can remember when Granny and Granddaddy be like, "Okay, boys, it's time to go to the garden." And I would literally disappear. I would go and hide. It's like, "No." And now if you're like, "Hey, time to go to the pasture." I'm like, "Let's go."
Don't have any hogs. And we might rotate one or two around, but I'm never going to have a hog farm.
But I do love the sheep. And eventually we're going to have some cattle. And we'll probably have one or two hogs that we rotate through the pasture just to have bacon in the freezer.
Yeah. Well, I will same thing. I thought for sure if I can find my way off this damn farm, life is going to be perfect. Uh, I can remember baby number one, and we were living in Salt Lake City, Utah. I was still finished up residency and just my first job, and Elizabeth Smart, the girl that was taken from her home, uh, yeah, had been stolen from her home. And I had a six-month-old baby, and I could see her house up the hill from where we lived. And I called my mom and said, "Oh my god, I I know how to raise kids in the middle of nowhere where nobody's going to come to your house and snatch them away, but I don't think I know what I'm doing here in Salt Lake City."
Yeah. That, uh, that farm becomes more attractive in the, I mean, I think it's the pace of life, but also, uh, your own sanity of slow it down and find, yeah, yourself, uh, away. I think life just makes more sense in the country. Uh, country people are just, but you know this growing up on your family farm, country people, one plus one equals two, whether it hurts your feelings or not. And nobody cares. That's what it is. It is what it is. You know, the hog died, the the sheep died, the baby rabbit died. That's just that's life, baby. You got to you got to get used to that. Whereas, I think in modern times in in cities, people think that humans are magic. Doesn't matter what you eat, doesn't matter what you say, doesn't matter how you live, all that matters.
Right. You know, the other thing that I feel has carried with me from at small town USA is the lack of being anonymous. That I, in a town of only 800 people, I can remember getting in trouble at like 14 years, 15 years old. I had thrown eggs at a teacher's car, and my mother knew about it before I got home. Like the damn grapevine was so good that, uh, yeah. But it's it also, as I kind of left the nest and flew away, I remember thinking, "Nobody looks me in the eye when I walk down these streets. That's weird. They should look you in the eye."
So, there's some things you can take off the farm, things you can't take off the farm. Uh, so, yeah, farming, family, and faith. You're not afraid to say that you love the Lord. And I think that's something you get on my channel all the time, too.
100%.
Um, so then I I the other kind of parallel is we both went into primary care, uh, family physician, internal medicine, but very similar practice of how do you take care of the bread and butter.
And then we both got sick, uh, or at least we were doing what we were telling our patients to do, saying, "Okay, what the heck?" Uh, so I remember hearing your story, but like I said, it's been about five years since I've heard that. So, was it like heartburn and just being overweight? What what was your big symptom?
Yeah, I I, uh, I'd work full-time in the clinic and also full-time in the ER. I would do four 12-hour shifts every week in the ER in addition to 45 to 50 hours a week in the clinic.
And so I lived in scrubs. And you remember scrubs, they've got that drawstring at the waist. And I'm very tall, so I had to have XL or 2XL scrubs, or they they'd be highwaters, right? And so I would here I am in my 2XL scrubs for the length, and and I had no, I knew I'd gained some weight. Annette, come on. I knew I'd gained some weight, but I did not realize. And so one day I walked in the clinic, and my nurse, my LPN who was with me for over 10 years, very common sense country girl, she said, "Doc, you're getting fat."
I'm like, "Oh, well, good morning to you, too, Wendy." And so I go jump on the scale, and I weigh 297 pounds. Right. And so the drawstring had lied to me because my pants still fit, Annette.
Yeah, they still fit. And so I thought, "Well, I better get some lab work." And my A1C was 6.1.
And I was also having just like, as you mentioned, severe, terrible heartburn. I had toenail fungus. I had dandruff. I had just knee, knee pain. Um, when the Nexium drug rep came, I took, none of my patients got Nexium samples. I got, I took two a day for years, and I would take 800 of ibuprofen and two Nexium every single day. That was just my standard because I believed that that was safe and fine at that point.
Until I got on that scale that day and then checked the labs. I'm like, "Whoa."
I've got. And you know, in, I'm sure you're you're from North Dakota, right?
South Dakota.
South Dakota. So, not as bad as North Dakota, but I'm sure in South Dakota, you would never take your car to a car mechanic whose car wouldn't start.
Oh, yeah.
Just know better than that.
So, why would you go to a fat, diabetic doctor in Tennessee and ask him for health or medical or weight loss advice? You wouldn't. That'd be stupid. And so, I immediately, being the country boy I am, I'm like, "I gotta fix that. I can't be a fat, diabetic doctor. What? No, that's not acceptable." And so in the journey to fix me, because the first thing I tried, Doc, was I I I took home a copy of the American Diabetes Association's PDF handout that I had given hundreds of patients who I diagnosed with type two diabetes, and I followed it religiously for three months. And I also jogged two or three days every week. And at the end of that three months, my A1C was a little worse, and I'd actually gained three more pounds.
Dang. So, it was at that, that was the epiphany. It's like, "Okay, so dude, you looking in the mirror, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You've been you've been giving patients all this, 'Oh, I'm the doctor. Here's all this advice.' And it was advice. Totally."
Yeah. And it didn't work for me. And I, here's the problem. I couldn't accuse myself of being non-compliant, could I? Because I live with me.
Right? We can tell patients. That's a typical doctor thing is like, "All my patients, I tell them about life, lifestyle, and diet. They don't never listen." I lived with me. I I had been doing it, and it did not work. And so that's why I had to go, "Okay, I gotta look for something else because this not, if it failed me, and I know I was doing it religiously, then maybe it's failing all my patients as well."
Right. I can remember that feeling too of saying, "Oh, I've been wrong for a long time."
Yep.
And, you know, when you feel that, and in my, uh, case, I think the answer was, um, uh, yes, I had health problems, but I was a mom and busy, and it wasn't until my mom's health problems were like, not working, not fixing things, uh, that I said, "Okay, uh, this has got to be something different."
And, um, so then the next year happens, and we both, uh, self-publish a book out of, I was, uh, I lost a bet to my husband, uh, that I I did not want to write a book. I thought that was a dumb idea. Like, I'm not a writer. I do this Christmas letter every year, but that's enough. I write prescriptions.
Uh, and I I did like it. I didn't want to tell him that for a few years.
Uh, but self-publishing a book is something. It's like, um, you got to have a lot of courage. Uh, you got to be able to say, "It's okay. There might be some mistakes in it. I'm still just going to go forward," because the message that was in your book, and it was in my book about that, you know, 2017, 2018 time, uh, when they came about, was, "Look, people, they're wrong." Yours is, uh, "Lies My Doctor Told Me."
Yep.
Did I get it right?
And mine was a little less clever than that. Anyway, you can. Uh, but both stories of, "Okay, we got this all wrong." And so if you had to say, like, the theme that in 2017 when you published, wrote your book, and published it, what's the big theme in your book?
I was wrong, and your doctor's probably wrong, too. That's the underlying spine of the entire book.
And let me give you a bunch of examples of how I was wrong and how your doctor's probably wrong, too. And, uh, one of the chapters in "Lies My Doctor Told Me" that I'm most proud of is the in the back, there's a chapter I actually wrote to medical students, residents, and doctors. And I said, "Dude, chick, look, I know, I know, but you just, you need to, you need to pay attention to this. This is important. You're going to wind up harming people even though you took an oath to never do that, and you took an oath to help people. You're gonna harm people if you don't read this chapter and read this book."
Right? I can remember thinking, "Other doctors should not make the same mistake." That's what I felt like. "Okay, if there's one place that I will do this, because it is a bit of courage, like I'm saying the opposite of everybody else right now. There's no like online support groups, online, you know, there's no big conferences." I can remember thinking, "I found my first conference where other people are saying it out loud," and I thought, "I'd like, oh, I'm not crazy. This is what other people do." Uh, and then you looked at in your book, and I'm sorry it's been a few years since I have read your book, but it's been a few years. Was it mostly keto? Was it carnivore? What who is the, uh?
Yeah, the word the word carnivore doesn't appear anywhere in the book.
Okay.
Uh, and so that was it was that's that's what part of it is like, it's like a history project because you go back and read "Lies," and I'm I'm absolutely honing in, but I'm not I'm not there yet. That was part of the journey was writing that book, and and so it's definitely low carb, definitely keto, definitely real, whole, one-ingredient foods.
Uh, de all that, and so I was, you can literally see me looking for the target, trying to find the target where where that was my proper human diet.
Right. Right.
And and so to be clear, I I still don't believe that everybody needs to be a carnivore.
Right. I think that almost everybody needs to do 90 days of carnivore just as a reset and to to lower the inflammation and just to kind of figure out what's going on. But I think there are people who can be under 100 total grams of carbs a day and be perfectly metabolically healthy.
Right.
Some people need to cut it down to 50 grams. Some people need to go to therapeutic keto, 20 or under. Some people need keto-carnivore, like Nisha, my wife. Under 10 total grams of carbs keeps her Hashimoto's in remission.
Wow. Good job.
And then some people, like me, who if I just look at a donut from across the street, I'm going to gain 10 pounds. I have to be carnivore. If I want to stay, you know, 225, 230 and have a normal A1C, I've got to be a carnivore. And I think that there's that spectrum of a proper human diet. And you've got to play around and experiment until you find, "Oh, for for this season of my life," because I think it changes for my activity level, for what I do, for what I like to eat, this is where I need to be on the proper human diet spectrum.
So, how many years in do you think you finally said, "This is where I land. I'm a carnivore. This is what works for me." Ken?
It was probably, it was probably five years, six years in, estimating. I'm terrible with time. Uh, but I, so I started out with Primal Paleo, Lauren Cordane, Mark Sison.
Right.
Like, "Okay, okay, that." And so I, that was helping, unlike the ADA's PDF, which did not help at all. Actually made it worse. And so then I was doing low carb with lots of meat. And I kept hearing about this ketogenic diet, uh, because I was actually looking for other alternatives rather than just the ADA panned out. And and so I like, "Well, I'll try keto." And after, oh man, keto, that took me to the next level. And then I was doing keto, and I I kept seeing little posts about this Sean Baker guy that ate nothing but meat, right? And so on my Facebook page, I said, "Hey guys, let's do, let's do a 30-day carnivore challenge. You know, I don't think we'll die. We're already eating a lot of meat anyway." And at the end of that 30 days, so so my heartburn was really kind of my canary in the coal mine.
Okay.
I went true real whole food keto. I went from taking two Nexium a day to having some Tums in my pocket and some apple cider vinegar in my cubby at the office. And so I would pop a Tums once or twice a day. I take a swig of apple cider vinegar, and that that controlled it. Whereas before, it took two Nexium a day.
Wait a minute. This is like three or four years into the story where you'd lost the weight, your insulin was better, your A1C is better, but that heartburn still continued.
Still had a little heartburn. And here's why. Like your mother, I was an X-ray tech before I went to med school. Did you know that?
I didn't know that.
Yeah. I was a radio, a radiologic technologist, uh, and and was going to be an MRI tech or a CT tech, but then I thought, "Heck, I'm gonna go to med school." Uh, but and so I had actually, I had X-ray in my clinic for the entire time I was in the big clinic, and I interpreted my own X-rays because I had already seen tens of thousands of X-rays as an X-ray tech and then going through med school and and then I had a obviously a backup radiologist. If I couldn't interpret something, I would forward it to him.
Uh, but I shot my own chest X-ray, and I had a hiatal hernia.
A big one. And I never knew that. And so, uh, I still have a hiatal hernia, but as long as I'm carnivore, Annette, I have zero heartburn ever. I don't take Tums. I I don't even know where the apple cider vinegar is. I've not taken anything for heartburn since I've been a carnivore. And that that was my canary in the coal mine at at that point, after that month of carnivore.
I was like, "Oh, yeah. I'm staying here." Because it's obviously it's just carnivore is keto. I say that sometimes, and people freak out, but I'm like, "If you're eating high-fat carnivore, you're 100% in ketosis the majority of the day. There's no way you can't be."
Right.
You know, it's.
Right. You know, it's just no way.
It's interesting. I remember, um, Eric Westman was the first person who, because I heard hear the, you know, what are the symptoms that get better when you go keto, when you go, uh, uh, low carb, and you know, heartburn was on that front page of so many of those lists, and I assumed it was, "Oh, they lost some weight and their tummy was less," and and Eric Westman scolded me good and proper when he said, "No, I did the study. The heartburn goes away far faster than the weight comes off." That it is a shift of, they think motility or something.
But I think that you're think you were thinking exactly correctly, because the more obese you are, the more likely you are to have heartburn. That's true. And also the more likely you are to have severe heartburn. That's also true. And so I still think you're partly right. I think a lot of the disagreement between different doctors in our sphere is that very often there's more than one right answer.
Yeah, I agree. So when you said that, I don't think you were wrong.
I do think Westman's right. It does go away much quicker than the obesity would lie. But I think you're also right, that yes, obesity absolutely plays a role. I think the research is very clear. Does that make sense? And so I think so many times people watching me and watching you, watching Syas, watching Westman, watching Baker, watching Chaffy, they're like, "Oh, Dr. Bos says this or Dr. Barry says this." And it's like, "Yeah, but if you're a doctor, you understand."
No, Bos was right about that. But also, Westman was right. Maybe Westman was more right, but but still Bos was right about that. And very, very often somebody will come in our private community, "Well, Dr. Bos says," and I'm like, "Yeah, I agree with that. But also, here's the rest of it. Here's why I say it the way I say it." And then they're like, "Oh." Because, you know, some people out there, they're just wanting some drama.
Right. Of course. Yes. It fuels. And it's like, "No, we're she's right about that. Uh, I I may say it differently, but that doesn't mean I'm going to say, 'Well, Bars is full of crap.' That's not. No, that's not that's not."
When we do that, though. You know?
They Oh, man. They. And so I disappoint so often because I'm I'm most of the time I'm like, "Well, actually, she's right about the obesity thing. Uh, Westman's right as well. Both of those things are true." And that, but that's not exciting. People don't like that.
Well, I also think as you mature in the world of being a physician, that you get to this humble place that says, "No, you're not going to know everything." Even with ChatGPT and AI integration, you're going to have to sit in this space and say, "Here's my best guess."
And clearly, the clinical application of medicine becomes a pattern recognition where you see patients enough where you're like, "No, no, that's getting their heart better. It's clearly better." And of course, the hope when patients are suffering like like what you did, like it's not a little heartburn that you get on Friday night with a little too much wine, or no, this is every day that is dysfunctional in their life.
And to give them the hope that you say, "No, you don't need me. You really do need a shift in how your body's behaving, and it has everything to do with what's going in in your mouth." I think clinicians who've been around this the block enough times have that pattern recognition in your brain that you're like, "Yeah, that's going to fit with this." And they also understand the power of keeping hope in that patient, of telling the truth. They don't need the whole truth on the first day. Enough truth to keep going to the next step, to the next step.
And that's to me, that's.
And there's 100% agree with all that. And so often doctors understand so much more of the minutia and detail of a medical topic. I'll give you an example, like when we say, "I'm going to have to put you on Warfarin or Heparin or or Plavix. We're going to have to thin your blood." Okay? A good doctor knows that those medicines in no way thin your blood. That's not how they work at all. But if I was going to sit there, it would take me an hour and a half to try to explain to the patient what Plavix actually does. Do you understand? And so it's just it's a it's a kind of shortcut.
But still truthy enough because it effectively thins your blood, even though it doesn't thin your blood at all. And and so, but very often less good doctors, they forget all of their physiology. They forget all of the biochemistry. And I've I've actually talked to doctors before. They're like, "No, it thins your blood." I'm like, "What are you talking about, dude? It doesn't thin your blood. Your blood's no thinner at all. That's not even how it works." But they'll say that for truth, and it's like, "No, that's not true." But so very, very often we have to explain stuff in the common vernacular.
So that people go, "Ah," because people need some kind of hook to hang their hat on.
Well, and I think that is where this primary care physicians that come from, you know, what I like to think of, maybe not humble beginnings, but at least farming beginnings, like this is rural medicine. And you got to have a language out there that people understand. And you are going to get a hairy eyebrow if you start talking in a different language that they don't understand. So stick.
100%. And I I remember, uh, hearing like foreign language residents and and that that would be, and I would be watching them interact with a patient from Tennessee going.
Yes. I don't even understand how there's any therapeutic thing happening here at all because, you know, this little country woman will be, she'll say, you know, "I've got an inch an itch in my unmentionables," or or something, and it's like, the how the how does this guy that's English is his second or third language, he has no clue what she's talking about.
Right.
You know? And because women, especially Southern women, are notorious for using every euphemism in the.
Yep.
And beating around the bush, but never actually hitting the bush, so to speak. I didn't mean for that. I didn't mean for that analogy to slip in there, but you understand what I'm saying.
Uh, and it's it's maddening to think. Yeah. And I I agree with you. I think people from farms and people from just country living, we're able to pick up on that that subtle, sometimes it's very subtle innuendo.
Because you've been raised as a Southern lady or a country lady, you don't mention stuff like that in mixed company, even if it is your doctor. Uh, and and just to try to tease out, how can somebody who who English is their second or third language, how do they pick up on any of that? And also, how do they communicate?
Right.
I just, I think it's, I don't think it's very therapeutic sometimes. I'm sorry.
Well, and and I think there's clearly something that where you can see Kenberry enjoys what he's doing. He is in a season of life where he loves this. It is exactly where he's God designed him to be. He figured it out, and he is serving that Holy Spirit by doing this thing where, uh, the language you speak, the attraction that you have, the lack of pretense when they arrive in a place that's, you know, talking about some pretty advanced things, but in a way that people connect to.
Um, so I was trying to think of a few things of where we might differ, and I thought, "Well, are," so first of all, let me go to this part where I showed up in the space, uh, and I wrote that book trying to explain why it might help my mother's cancer. I'm a, you know, I'm internal medicine, but the like the subtext for my private clinic was peak brain performance, Parkinson's, bipolar, addiction, um, headaches, like, but it's internal medicine. I try, I had to pay bills, like, but to just take care of broken brains, you're not going to get very far.
Um, but to really have that as a place where, you know, that I I first heard about the ketogenic diet when Tim Ferriss and Dom D'Agostino were on a podcast, and they were doing all these things, hyperbaric chamber, I got one of the TMS. I was doing all these things, but he was doing this keto thing, and I'm like, "What the hell are you talking about?"
And I I was, I mean, like embarrassed to admit out loud that I'm like, "I don't even know what he's talking about."
I was the same exact way. Don't be embarrassed. I was like, "Ketogenic? What?" Because I understand enough of the Greek and Latin to understand what that meant. But I'm like, "Ketones in the urine is uniformly a bad thing. You're you're severely dehydrated or you're pregnant. There, there, ketones in the urine. That's not good." Because I was, I don't know about you, but never in med school, a single time, or residency was it like, "Oh, good. They've got ketones in their urine."
Not a single time. Was that good?
No. And so as I, you know, hide in secret trying to figure out what it was, it's in that time where I come across a few papers about ketogenic and cancer. And this is kind of like, "Oh, brush that away. That's not what I care about right now." And then my mom gets, um, a recurrence of her cancer that is very sugar-dependent, very glucose-insulin, uh, responsive. And.
I asked her this question that she foolishly said yes. I said, "Do you trust me, Mom?" And she should have said no. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. She's my first patient, and I'm like, "I am reading papers as fast as I know how to do, and I don't want anybody to know what we're doing. So I'm like, 'Don't admit a thing. We're just going to go keto for six weeks and see what happens.'" And so as I enter into that, um, you know, where my husband got the idea that I should write this book is I would have these sticky notes. I mean, her brain was not doing good. She had had chemo twice. She was in the midst of a, you know, she had six months to live if we did nothing, and she was saying, "Forget it. I'm not doing this again." And so on a ketogenic diet, which was a gamble, like I can read that it might be responsive to a low glucose, blah, blah, blah, but there was no evidence out there that that was going to work. And, um, so as I march into the keto space, uh, one thing Chad, my husband, would shame me for is like, "You need to stop using that word. That word keto, nobody understands. Like, quit it. It sounds weird. Stop saying it." And I'm like, "I don't know what else to call it, Chad."
There's like not another word. And so I have all these sticky notes on our mirror, and every time Mom graduates a lesson, and I move it from one side of the mirror to the other side of the mirror, and he, you know, we take the sticky notes, and I made a book out of it. Anyway, so, uh, but as I journeyed through, I mean, you look at 2016 or 2017, whatever that was, and then the this word carnivore becomes like a thing. What do you remember what year that was?
I do not remember. I would guess it was 2018, 19, really came on the radar. Is that?
Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Bring it. Leave it to Sean Baker. Whenever he arrived, he was good for brand because that's what that looks like to be healthy.
And that space of, I I still walk, you know, the the one question I put in there is, "Who's your ideal audience? Who do you think comes to your channel?" And I have a guess, but I wonder if you see, who do you think are the the most likely to come to your channel?
So, since I'm family medicine, I try to keep my channel as broad as I can, right? Because I was literally trained from the womb to the tomb, and I try to keep it that way. Uh, and but my my average audience is probably 35 to 105. They're they're either overweight or got pre-diabetes, type two diabetes, uh, fatty liver, hypertension, metabolic syndrome, uh, visceral fat, uh, you know, and then the dermatological conditions because I was I was trained in advanced family medicine. I did tons of biopsies and excisions and stuff, and so I always talked about dermatological symptoms on my channel, even though I'm family medicine. We're not supposed to talk about that. Uh, and then more and more so neurological stuff, are, you know, joint. I did a I probably did 10,000 joint injections in my 20 years at the clinic before the fire. Uh, and so I was very familiar with the, uh, the joint literature as well. I was always, I tried to read very deeply and broadly, not just in the family medicine.
Right. And I think that, um, that if I look at the audience, I I never really thought about it till you just said that, that as an internist, my my audience had always been a little older, and I think it's still older than your audience. That, um, there might be some younger women that can hop on the channel a little quicker, but actually, I think there's more men on my channel than women in the last couple years. So.
Same for me. And I I don't, because, you know, if you look at the the literature, it's always women who go to the doctor more often. But for me, my my channel is probably 55, 45 men.
I think YouTube screwed that up a little. Like they don't know.
Yeah.
When I get out in the in the wild, I see women, women. But, you know, in my in my practice, it's 70, 30 women, men, right?
But then on my channel, it's 55, 45 men, women. And it's like, "Okay, well, whatever."
Yeah. So, the people that come to mine, I I think are a little older than the ones that come to yours. And I think they, uh, come after they've, uh, had a a I mean, a failure, uh, or they've struggled, they've stalled. That's But that's I think you've got a really good, um, attraction, uh, that when they're going from standard American diet to proper human diet, they land on Canberry, and most people never need anything more than that. Uh, so I I I think that's true. I don't I I'm not the, we'll find out in heaven if that's real true.
But.
That's right. In 10 more years, we'll know. We'll look back. Yeah. But I try to do that. And I think also another thing that's really helped my channel appeal to a younger audience is my wife, Nisha, who has Hashimoto's, and we, you know, we've had two babies. So, we can talk about with authority. Uh, because I was the baby doc at deliveries hundreds of times. I was the doc delivering the baby hundreds of times in my family medicine training. And so I'm I'm not a stranger to those things. Uh, you know, I first assist on hund over a hundred C-sections. So I've I've been in the OBGYN. And then she had Hashimoto's. And so we were able to talk about all those topics as well. And I think that helps my channel skew younger maybe than yours. Uh, where internal medicine, you're going to definitely just be exclusively adults.
Right. Well, and there's lots of problems. There's lots of medical problems everywhere I look. That's the.
There's no shortage. It's not like you're hurting verbasance for for sure.
Okay. So, here's another here's a place where I've put up some rules in my, uh, in my practice, in my, uh, audience. Uh, so, tell me what your opinion is of fasting.
I think fasting is a great tool. Okay.
I've always been pro-fasting. Uh, there's a chapter in "Lies" about fasting. Uh, one of the tenants of a proper human diet is sometimes the healthiest option is to not eat. And so I'm I'm a huge fan. Now, when I, I would say back in 2018, 2019, I was a much bigger fan of longer fasting.
Uh, but I'm I'm I think now, I think for the average person, I think there's still always going to be a subset of the population that need to do longer fasts.
Right.
100% true. But I think for the majority of people, 70% of people who come to my channel, I think if they'll turn down their carbohydrate intake knob low enough, consistently enough, for long enough, they can do a 16 or 18 or 20-hour daily, uh, you know, just not eat and just have a four or six or eight-hour feeding window, feasting window, that they don't need to do longer fasts. Uh, but I still think there's a subset of people because, you know, as well as I do, some people are drawn to it.
Oh, yeah. It's it's strange, but.
They they love the fast. Other people abhor the mention of a fast. And so it's like, I I just think the majority of people don't need it. But I think everybody would benefit from doing a a, you know, a 48-hour fast every other week or a three-day fast once a month. I think everybody would benefit from that. But many people don't want to do that.
Right. Right. Right. So, what what limited time of nothing burger do you use before you turn on from time-restricted eating to fasting?
Yeah. So, if you're if we're going more than 24 hours, we're going to call that a fast. Uh, and if it's because just because of the way the literature uses the terminology, uh, but if if we're doing a, you know, not eating or and not snacking or not drinking a single calorie for 16, 18, 20 hours a day, we're going to call that time-restricted, uh, eating or time-restricted feeding. Uh, just because just for the terminology of the literature, because I always try to be true to the literature, right? And and actually use the medical terminology or the scientific terminology, even if I'm talking to a lay person, just because I feel like I want what I'm talking about to be translatable either to the common man or woman, but also if a research scientist comes along, I don't want to just sound like some kind of psycho using random terms. I want to kind of be using the scientific terms if at all possible. I think there was a transition in my, uh, so I wrote the first book, "Anyway You Can," and then later said, "What do I use in the clinic?" And that was the second book. Between those two books, I changed the definition of fasting. Uh, that fasting had been the 24-hour mark, and then it was, uh, there was so many patients who couldn't, who had not lowered their blood sugar, their insulin was still too high at 24 hours, and they gamed it. They would they would eat at, you know, it's 8:00 at night, and then they'd fast all the way till 8:00 at night, and then they eat this big meal at night and wonder why nothing's getting better. Uh, so I said, "Nope, fasting, the F-word is not used on in my experience, uh, if you're following directions until you get to 36 hours."
Which really means they fast for two nights of sleep, and they do not eat for a whole day. So, you can game it that you're sleeping for 16 of those 36 hours. Uh, but I'll tell you where I I switched that is, um, there were, I mean, there's the the power of being insulin resistant and coming to a place where you have dropped the carbs, maybe you've even gone carnivore, you did the time-restricted eating, and they still are so overweight, so disease-filled, that you got to go to the next level. How do you know that?
Because you can see it in your numbers. Uh, the only way we're going to get those numbers to drop into the place where finally insulin lets go, and you can, it's low enough where you can move fat, and the fasting, I I cannot tell you the thousands of people where I said, "You're not really fasting. I need you to get to 36 hours." And it seems impossible. It seems impossible. And I remember the first time I thought it was impossible too.
But they they did get better when they started pushing to that level. Uh, any other, uh, you have any kind of advice or rules around when you do that time-restricted eating? I think both of us have seen this in our, I think it was in it's been a while, but your original book where, "Skip breakfast, skip lunch, have that meal in the afternoon." That's when they eat, and that works for for a lot of people.
Um, but a more advanced time-restricted eating is to put that meal in the morning. Do you have any of that that lands in your on your?
I have a few people that the the morning meal just fits with their work schedule or their family schedule, and and then some people, like is like for me, for example, I I can't eat three hours before bed because of that hiatal hernia.
Yeah.
Right. And so for some people who have medical, maybe they've had gastric bypass, or they have a hiatal hernia, or some other anatomical reason why they don't need to go to bed with any food in their stomach whatsoever. And I I think you're probably right. I think there's a subset percentage of people who their insulin is probably not going to come down as low as they need it to be, if if they're eating too late in the evening. I think for the vast majority of people, that's not an issue. But I I see that's the thing is I learned very early, there's this thing called the normal distribution curve.
It's super important, and most doctors do not get it. Once you understand, first of all, that people's lab values change from minute to minute. Most docs don't know that. They think, "Oh, your your triglycerides are 150, therefore that's just what they are every day, all day." No, idiot. Not even close. They change from minute to minute. And then number two, that people are different. Now, we're all the same species. We're 99.99% the same, but there is a normal distribution curve for every lab test, for every measurement that you can measure a human being, including insulin. And for it would not surprise me at all if over on this end of the normal distribution curve, there's a subset of people that if they don't fast for 36 hours, they're they're never going to get their insulin below 15 or whatever, in order for, you know, their body to say, "Oh, okay, I can now start to metabolize some fat."
Yeah, I've seen that too, and I think that comes from private pract or like primary care, like you see enough.
You don't honestly, I think it's the combo of primary care and a common sense country upbringing. I I really do believe that because you just, you get common, you just get a level of common sense that I don't think you get, uh, maybe maybe in the neighborhoods like, you know, Brooklyn, where you grow up just running around like a wild kid, like you're feral, you know, you just be home. But I just, I think so many kids now never, they don't have enough interaction with actual the ultimate video game, which is go outside. That's the most realistic video game there is. They're on their screen so much that they just, they don't literally understand physics or physical science or just cause and effect. I don't think they understand it. And I think we got a lot of doctors who.
grew up like that.
I agree. And they just don't get, uh, like a huge thing that I think primary care doctors get that specialists don't don't understand is the signal that we get back from our patients. Like when the drug rep comes, "Oh, we got this new drug for whatever." And you're like, "Okay, that sounds great. Here's the research that we paid for and actually ran ourselves." But, you know, you're just a primary care doctor, so you don't understand that. And so you write, you prescribe that for a few people and then when they come back in three or six months, you see the signal, "Oh, doc, boy, that that helped me so much," or "Now I can't really tell it helped," or "The side effects drove me crazy. I had to quit it."
I think primary care docs who were raised in the country pick up on that subtle because a lot of times the patient doesn't want to disappoint you. They, they, they're afraid you'll be mad at them or disappointed if they say, "I couldn't take it because of the side effects."
And so they'll come in and they'll be what I call himhawing. You know what himhawing means? Like beating around the bush, like, "Well, I don't know." And I'm like, "When did you quit taking it?" And they're like, "Oh god, yeah. I stopped. I I took it for three days. I couldn't take it. It made this happen." And so I think if you're really good at that communication and watching their face, listening to the inflection, you'll pick up on that. Whereas the the average, I don't know, urban-raised person just didn't pick up on that.
Well, I do think it's that sense that you are designed to read that. Like there there is a human connection in your life that you went to church and then you went to the grocery store and it was the same lady and you had to be just as polite in one place as you did in the other and there's a way to do this where you don't tick off the neighbors. That community and interaction was not subtext. It was actually how you lived. And then you apply that as a physician that you're sending me a signal. You can't say the words, but it's my job to read between the lines and figure that out with you. I also think that it's not feasible in my world to send you to a specialist for every time something didn't go right. That it's an hour and a half away to the specialist. And so that's why I tried to do so many different things in my clinic because the patients invariably would be like, "Oh, come on, doc. Can't you do this? You can surely do this. I heard you do this, this, or this. Surely you can do this." And I'm like, "Let me read about it. Let me see." And I Well, maybe I'll let you know. And and so, yeah, an hour and a half to a specialist, that makes you think harder as a primary care doctor because you're now inconveniencing your ruining your patient's entire day. Oh, yeah. To go to that specialist in Nashville or Jackson or Memphis, Tennessee. Right. Absolutely.
All right. So, let's move to the next place. Do you ever have a time where you think patients are doing too much protein?
So seldom. So seldom that it's almost not worth talking about. That's that's been my experience. Uh, maybe some men will do too much protein, but the vast majority of of women who, and and early on, I actually suspected this. I'm like, "Oh, you're eating too much protein. I'm afraid." But then invariably, every single time I tell them, "Okay, I don't know what's going on with you. Download Carb Manager or uh, you know, Chronometer and I want you to track every morsel, every drop of liquid. But I want you to track for two weeks." I've really yet to find a a woman over the age of 40, 45 who was eating too much protein.
Just just I I just don't see it in my practice at all.
My experience that I I find that when they are trying to micromanage things to the point where I've counted my carbs, I've counted my fat, I've counted my protein, and then they get something like on Chronometer saying, "But you're not getting enough protein," and they're worried it's going to have some loss of muscle mass and that's when they start chasing protein. And doc, I don't think I'm getting enough protein. And so there's the too much and I'm not getting enough in this conversation.
And what what I've there's two places that I first check. I I first check that they're not powdering their protein. If if their protein comes in tiny little particles, bam, does that make an insulin response?
And that can absolutely yes cause hyperinsulinemia. 100% agree. Yes. And they are like, "But it's protein." And like, "When I put this in my shake," I'm like, "You can give that to a 22-year-old bodybuilder, but that ain't you, girl. We got we got 100 pounds we're trying to lose here, and you have a chemistry set that's broken, and when you put that powdered protein in, it's doing the wrong thing."
The second thing that I do when I see them chasing the protein, I got to have so much protein. I'm like, if you would just be in a ketogenic state, your body would recycle the protein within you. You're you're only counting the part protein that goes through your mouth. But if you push ketones and get that glucose down, your your system is designed not to waste protein. It's going to
I 100% agree and I see so many people out there in our space just going by the protein that goes in their mouth.
Right?
And I'm and I I've explained this so many times in our private group because a lot some of our coaches are like, "She's not eating enough protein." And sometimes I agree with that. Other times I'm like, "Wait, this woman weighs 390 lbs." When we get her deep enough in ketosis that she starts to metabolize her fat,
Right?
That fat is not just levitating in midair. That fat is held down by connective tissue.
Yes.
Which is made of protein.
And so her body's not going to keep all of that extra connective tissue as she metabolizes that fat. she's going to be getting a meaningful amount of protein that's coming from the autophagy,
Right,
of breaking down that connective tissue. Now, it may not be 20, 30, 40 grams a day of protein, but it's going to be a non it's not going to be a zero amount of protein.
Well, and I think that there is an underappreciated amount when you put people in a mild amount of ketosis versus a really stark ketogenic state. That recycle button is so much higher than what we have estimated. And especially the the first few, like if you go back to the studies that were done in northern Minnesota and they no longer can do them anymore because they're like against human trials. But you know, these were thin people. These were not, there were a few obese people in that trial, but for the most part, you couldn't find the humans that we're taking care of in those trials. We are this is an advanced insulin resistant patient. You got to fix the endocrine part of things before we can fix the protein content that you don't even get to be worried about that. And you know, I've I've found that I fight that a lot. Like you can again find other folks in the space trying to say, "No, no, no, no, it's the protein." And then I said, "Come back when you're done trying that and I'll give you some advice, but go chase it and I'll be here because"
y not going to work. I I I don't I don't agree with it too much protein. I think there's an endocrine part part first. And I mean, I love using Sean Baker because I'm like, when you look like him, we can talk about this. You You are You don't look like him. You have a really high deposit of fat everywhere that is from insulin. We got to fix that first before you can interpret.
And that fat is not levitating. That fat is bound up in connective tissue. And I think I think you're exactly right. See, I'm sorry to disappoint everybody, but we're going to we're going to agree again if you dig down deep enough. I think most of us agree about most everything. U very very often it's the most vocal, loudest people that have the least credentials that are saying certain things that me and Boss are like we we just we're not going to be like we're just going to be like, "Okay, you know," because we're raised in the country. You're be disrespectful. You used to be like, "Okay,
I wonder what when you have a prejudice for country folk. You know, you're not sexist. You're not agist. You're
you're you're you're hilly."
We're just blessing your heart silently is all we're doing. We're just like, "Bless your heart. You don't know what you're talking about." But I think especially if somebody's severely obese and you get them deep in ketosis, the amount of autophagy,
Yes,
that's going on with with the connective tissue is going to give them a meaningful amount of of internal protein source that that they don't have to eat as many uh grams of protein a day. I totally agree. Yeah, it's and there's a couple of great uh I don't know if you've ever seen the stuff by Ryan Lowry and his team where they studied the athletes and they're looking at wasted protein from people that are in a ketogenic state versus not a ketogenic state. Really good double blinded. One team is carb cycling on the weekend and the other one stays in ketosis for the 30 days. And the amount of muscle mass these athletes lost when they would go in and out of ketosis versus the ones that are bodybuilding inside a keto ketogenic state, they preserve that muscle mass. And it was what a great way to like stop the music. This is a great evidence for what we're trying to say that there's more going on than you can see here.
I agree.
All right. So, uh, we're almost done here. How about how to fix a stall? What do you tell people?
U, so I don't even let people call it a stall until it's 30 three months. I don't even want to unless it's unless it's been 90 days. We're not going to We might call it a weight loss pause. uh your body's taking a break, but if it's not 90 days, it's not a stall. At 90 days, I start looking for medical undiagnosed medical issues. I start looking uh at the thyroid. I start looking at the sex hormones, and I start looking at the adrenal glands, uh very often, very, especially in women, they're like, "No, dude. I'm 100% carnivore. I'm eating, you know, once or twice a day. I'm I'm fasting anywhere from 18 to 22 hours every day." And then they finally talk a doctor into getting a full thyroid panel or they go to ownyourlabs.com and they either have undiagnosed hypothyroidism or undiagnosed Hashimoto's or und undiagnosed reverse T3 problem. And it's like, "There you go." And literally, you know, the the thyroid is the master gland.
Yeah. And if it if it's not functioning properly, uh, you can gain weight if all you're eating a day is two acorns and half a rat's tail. You you it it's going to be impossible for you to lose weight unless you fix that thyroid problem. Uh, and that's also when I start pulling out other tools like the let's do a 36-hour or 48-hour fast is when you've went that 90 days and and they've either documented thoroughly enough or you just you can again that country boy common sense. I just trust I know this person's not lying to me.
That's when we start looking at other stuff.
Yeah. You know, for my stall part, again, I think it comes from the season mom was in when she was getting her cancer and then the cancer would grow and we would see her numbers go backwards. So, I I don't like the word stall because I think they're measuring the wrong things. But, I do like, "Are you in a ketogenic state that can reverse uh insulin resistance or are you in a ketogenic are you not in a ketogenic state?" So, I think that I'm I'm a I push for them to check those numbers. Don't just hang out in the, "Do you know, you're you don't know what's going on?" This is something you should take ownership of. You can do in your home. It's not 1950. It's 2026. And you can prick your finger and learn what you need to learn at least to see inside how your body's doing first thing in the morning.
So when I when I when people start talking to me about a stall, the first thing I push on them is, "Show me your numbers for the last two weeks." Then we can have a conversation and then walk towards which way would you like to shift that?
Yeah. And I know that you love the the GKI and and the measuring the ketones. I tend to attract people that are not data geeks. They do not want to check anything, right, if they can avoid it. Um,
most people don't need to.
Yeah, I 100% agree. And and I love it that you're you're willing to say that the the the GKI queen is like, "Yeah, most people don't need to check that at all." But you you guys see watching this, this is because Annette tends to attract older people,
more metabolically sick people, right?
She's got a higher percent of people that need to track that stuff.
100%. Correct. We agree again. I'm so sorry everybody looking looking for drama. I'm sorry. Uh, but one of the main numbers I love to check if they're like, "I haven't lost any weight in six months or whatever." I'm like, "What's your fasting insulin?"
Yeah. And if they're like, "Oh, I don't know. My doctor wouldn't check it." I'm like, "Well, we're in the dark. We have no book." And then invariably when they do get it checked, it's somewhere between 15 to 25. And I'm like, "Okay, you maybe thought you were eating carnivore or you maybe thought you're eating therapeutic keto, but there's a sauce, there's a rub, there's a condiment. Something's tricking you or you're just flat out lying. I don't know. But you're you're eating too many carbs for your personal physiology,
right?" And I think we've both been trapped there by patients saying, "I'm trying to do the right things." And you just need some data to say, "Let me show you that something's missing in this equation." And
I mean, you don't want them to stay stuck. You want them to get better. So,
of course, of course, especially if they're in our private group or your private group,
like it it reflects on us if they're just like, "Yeah, nothing's happening. Nothing's getting better, right?"
Uh, and there's so many signals that you and I look for that I think a lot of people don't even know exist. I think a lot of doctors don't even know that they exist. That are quite subtle and it's almost like you have to have a degree of ninja intuition to be a really good primary care doctor. You almost have to have like an unconscious ability to just hear what they meant and ignore what they said very often. And in our private group, that same thing applies
because very often I'll ignore everything they said and I'll say something else and they're like,
"How'd you know that?" I'm like, "Yeah, I've been doing this a minute."
Right. All right. So we got trespide before we land on the ads. So
y so I unlike many people, I don't know I don't I have no idea where you fall on this on the ompic wiggov monero argument. I think if somebody is severely metabolically ill, their BMI is above 35. Their A1C is above nine or 10. I have no problem whatsoever from for them using a GOP1 at a low dose for a short period of time. I have zero problem with that and I know that that infuriates a lot of people in our space.
I've seen that too. Yeah, I've been
But here's the thing. I think a lot of people, the part of the thing that I hated about the calorie in calorie out model was that it it blamed everything on the patient.
Yep. And it was gluttony and sloth.
And and if anybody comes from a religious background, you know, those are those are a few of the most important sins that you just accused your patient of. And so for the it's literally it's an echo of that same sentiment in my opinion, Dr. Boss, that oh oh you if you're taking even a low dose of oimpic for a month or two, you're cheating.
Right? No, you're using you're using a medical tool for a short period of time to get you to a place where you can take over and do this the natural way or the the more earnest way or the more honest way, whatever. I I just I don't I don't judge patients ethics or morals. I just want people who I'm in charge of their care to get better and stay better. And if that includes them being on osimpic for three months at a low dose, so be it. I I'm not offended by that. Now, I'm I will also warn patients, there is no long-term safety data for these new higher doses or for being on it for years or for the there's no long-term safety data. And I predict I predict there's that we'll see the largest class action lawsuit in medicine in the history of medicine from these new higher doses and take it for the rest of your life. I think that's going to be a disastrous outcome.
Right. You know where where my space has ended up is very similar that I've had um, you know, I have patients I take through an advanced ketogenic state like you do. This like my mom did it. This is a three-week class. It's pretty intense. And at the end of that, when they're in a ketogenic state, we offer a 12-week extension class to put 0.6 milligrams of tricepite in a week. I mean, and that's because we couldn't measure it any to 0.3 because they couldn't see the damn stuff. It was too small.
Right.
But looking at what that impact is, the patients who opt in for that are the sickest ones, Ken. They've had the cancer, they've had the insulin resistance, they're diabetic, and they've you've got them in ketosis. And I contend, I mean, this is my theory and I'm trying to write 12 cases. Westman shame me into this, too. Like, you can't just have these stories in your head. You got to write them down. I'm like, "Shut the hell up. Okay, fine." Anyway, so I'm trying to write these stories down and put them on Substack or something. Uh, that what happens when you take an advanced ketogenic patient or state, you add a tiny amount of trespide and can you see the sarcopenia be prevent? I do think the class action is going to come from the reversal of the muscle mass when they're on these higher doses.
Yep. And the gastroparesis. That's gonna Yeah. 100%.
But that's where there that's where I think the there's a place for it. I think it's a powerful tool for people who do not have enough time left on earth to reverse these problems. And
Right. That's exactly right.
Right. Because people don't, you know, if you're not a doctor, you don't really understand the odds. But if somebody's 350 pounds and their A1C is 12,
Right?
Like their risk of dying in the next six months is very very high.
Right.
Right. And that's not that's not like, "Oh, diabetic." That's that's literally a life-threatening condition. And so if I need to use a medical therapy for a few months to pull them back from that thousand foot high cliff, of course I'm going to do that. I would be a less good doctor if I didn't offer.
Absolutely. And I think that's the part where you've seen suffering all the way to the grave and you watch. Look, if I can pull you back from the edge and you get four more years of quality of life, God, isn't that great in the name of Trospite? You know, absolutely.
Absolutely.
All right. So, we're saving the best for last because you've done something really brave again, which is to say the AMA has nothing when you look at what K what Ken Barry's doing. So tell me about the American Diabetic Society and make sure we'll link the link that you sent me in the show notes, but talk about this. Talk about what you did here and what's your dream.
Of course. So remember back earlier when I was a fat pre-diabetic and I followed religiously the American Diabetes Association's handout. I went to their website. I made their recipes and my diabetes didn't get any better at all.
Right. Right. So, it occurred to me and and do Dr. uh Dr. Westman is on the board with the ADS, Dr. Professor Bickman is on the board, Mariela Glenn, an endocrinologist, Michelle Hearn, a registered dietitian. We've got really good people. Dr. Tony Hampton, another primary care doc. Uh, we got lots of good people on this board. And I reached out to him and I said, "Dude, who do you send diabetics to?" Like for recipes and for. And they're like, "Well, nobody." And I'm like, "But wouldn't that be awesome if there was an American Diabetes Society that had hundreds of recipes on their website that would actually make your blood sugar go down?"
Yeah.
And that wasn't sold out, that hadn't taken up a million dollars a year from Kellogg's and a million dollars a year from Eli Lilly. And you could trust them that that they're not going to sell out and be like, "Well, yeah, put some uh uh what's what's the one? Splenda."
Oh, yeah.
Put some Splenda in your cucumber salad because, you know, Splenda actually contains literal sugar, right? It contains literal glucose. It says it on the back, but they say it's dextrose. They use the British term because the average American doesn't understand that dextrose is glucose. So, this sugar-free sweetener has literal sugar in it. It says it on the back. And they're and that they took this huge donation from the Splenda company, the ADA did.
And now their cucumber salad, because you know, you can't have cucumber salad without some sweet.
Yuck.
What? So the all their recipes for the average person with diabetes makes their blood sugar go up, makes their A1C go up.
They, you know, they've got brownie recipes that's got 27 grams of carbs. And then also they cheat on the serving size because you tell me Annette, who eats a brownie?
They're like,
you know, it's eight ounces of batter and it makes 14 servings.
Come on. That's That I'm sorry. That's the technical term for what that is, right?
I'm sorry. And so we got together and we formed the American Diabetes Society. And we've got hundreds of recipes. We've got three registered dietitians who understand low carb, keto, carnivore. We've got doctors on the board. Uh, we're about to hire our first full-time kind of COO person so that I who am not a nonprofit guy. I don't have to try to run this anymore.
So, they can run the the nonprofit side of it and I can just step back and be the doctor, right?
But, uh, I I feel like and we're increasingly getting bigger and bigger and bigger donations. Nice. We've gotten multiple five large five-figure donations now from private foundations who know that the ADA is full of crap. They know the ADA sold out. They know that they're bought and paid for by big pharma and big food. And so they're like, "Yeah, we don't want to we can't be associated with you guys because you're not, you know, you're not the ADA, but we love what you're doing. We know that you're actually helping people reverse type two diabetes." Because I always say at the American Diabetes Society, we do not want to be your partner for life.
No,
we want to just reverse your type two diabetes and then you can go live your life. How about that? And it seems like people really resonate with that. Like, yeah, I don't want to be your partner for life. I just want to reverse this and get on with it. That's what the ADS is for. And we've just now I I can announce here that um Scott who runs the Meattostock.
Oh, yeah. He He is a great. He's going to donate $10,000.
Wow.
To the American Diabetes Society. And for Meattostock 2027, which is going to be in Nashville, Tennessee at the Opryland Hotel. We're going to try to put 5,000 butts in the seat in Nashville in 2027. He's going to make the American Diabetes Society an anchor sponsor. So it'll be you'll it'll be on all the literature, all the stuff and he's going to donate 10 grand of meat stock profits to the American Diabetes Society. So we're catching traction now. We're literally this is growing by leaps and bounds. And I predict within five to seven years, nobody's going to be talking about the ADA because they they're getting their reward from big pharma and big food in millions of dollars of let's just put it in air quotes donations, right?
No, I think it's real when you look at the type of organizations that will change and make America healthy. Like don't depend on government. Do not wait for them. They're trying their best. I get it. But it's us. It's us. Nobody's coming to save us. It's our efforts and you know, I've got lots of uh very very generous people that watch. So if you're looking for a place to put some money that is really making a difference, uh the link will be in the show notes and the work they're doing is so that the next generation doesn't have the number of people dying of diabetes with
Our goal is and you know, now there are every every uh pediatric hospital in any urban center now has a dedicated clinic for children with type two diabetes and fatty liver. That should not even exist. There shouldn't be no such clinic. Maybe at the Mayo Clinic, there's one clinic in the whole country where every type 2 diabetic child goes because it's so rare. But our goal at the ADS is to make type 2 diabetes as rare as it was back in the 1960s where it's basically if somebody has type two diabetes, they're just that type of person that says, "Look, I don't give a damn. I'm going to eat what I want. I do not care." Fine. You can have type two diabetes because you're a grown American. It's fine. Right? But we want every American and indeed everybody around the world if they want to get rid of their type two diabetes, this is how you do it and it works reliably. No medications, no prescriptions required. You can do this by just
That's the part that I think is so brilliant about what both of our channels are doing is the the profit for this is the education and the influence that the best thing you can do for Ken Berry is be a healthy version of you as you carnivore away as you healthy your way out of cancer or out of an autoimmune.
Teach your friends and family. That's all I want. Pay it forward. Teach your friends and family. That's all I need from you. Yeah. And a small donation to the American Diabetes Society. Also, let me say this. I finally got it set up so that on Facebook you can pick the American Diabetes Society, not association.
Right. Right.
Or your birthday fundraiser. Or for if you just want to run a a fundraiser on Facebook, you can pick the ADS, not the ADA.
Did you send Mark Zuckerberg a steak?
Yeah, he needs a steak. Yeah.
How'd you get that on there? That's awesome. That's a lot of work.
Oh. Yep. So, yeah, we're working one day at a time to to make the ADS the new diabetes society
so that every type 1 diabetic and have a normal A1C,
Right?
And use 80% less insulin. Every type two has the option if they choose, and most do, to just reverse it and get rid of it and not have any.
Go away. You don't want to know. You don't want to get to know me better. I promise.
Exactly. Go out, eat a steak, and go outside and play in the sun. It's literally that simple.
Wow. Well, I took you over the hour. I really apologize, but it was my favorite. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, and we'll do all we can and we'll put that link in the show notes that send the American Diabetes Society your support and it's saying yes to Ken and yes to me. So,
thanks so much, doctor. It's always a pleasure. I'm sorry we didn't disagree.
Disagree too much. Right. All right. Bye-bye.