Transcription
Uh, Brian Welch with the District Attorney's Office. Desire Thompson. I'm the captain of the Bureau of Investigation for the District Attorney's Office. Nate Wandruff for the Department of Range Master. Roberto Navaro, senior criminal investigator.
We did submit now the updated report laying out our request to acquire 10 additional um, rifles uh, as well as noise uh, flash devices that are important to the work of the members of our bureau.
Just to confirm, the department is declaring the intention to purchase an additional 10 AR-15 rifles and will not be replacing any of the current arsenal.
Correct. We have a current inventory of 20. We'd like that to be a 30. In 2022, the board of supervisors newly established military equipment use policy recognized that the DA's office included an arsenal of 10 AR-15s at that time. Um, and you have 20. So, so additional rifles have been purchased since 2022.
Yes, correct. You had 10 when the military policy came into effect. You then purchased an additional 10, so that was up to 20. Have you replaced any of the AR-15s?
Yes, we did. We we replaced the initial 10 rifles with 10 upgraded rifles.
And what was done with the the ones that you discarded?
They were traded in with a vendor.
So they weren't destroyed.
Honestly, ma'am, I can't answer that question. And I don't know what happened after after the vendor took possession of them.
Who is the vendor?
A company called Proforce. Proforce, as I understand it, contracts with a separate vendor to accept trade-in guns. They claim the guns. They take possession of them. They are registered as no longer in possession of the county of Santa Clara. And then we lose track of what happens with them after that. We we have no way of tracking that. We have no way of tracking what happens to to weapons that we take away from from your arsenal. I would like to get some information uh about the the vendor and it would it would be good for for you to know as well to confirm that you don't have any concerns to find out what that vendor does um with the weapons. I I had actually hoped the answer was going to be that they were destroyed.
And ma'am they may have been. I just don't I don't know that.
From July of 2024 to June of 2025, the rifles were unused outside of a training environment. That's good news. For the last 3 years, the department has not discharged any AR-15 in the field.
Yes, ma'am.
Great. This updated military use report is indicating the purchase of 10 new AR-15s to bring the total rifle count to 30. Why are you seeking to triple the number of AR-15s that we had as of 2022?
We've seen an expansion in the Bureau of Investigations from 2022 to present. Um, some of that expansion is the task forces including the human trafficking task force and the gun violence task force. At present, we have approximately between 90 and 100 investigators. Of those investigators, many are certified as rifle operators from their prior agencies. So, it's a skill set that is um within the Bureau of Investigations. So the request for the expansion is to um maximize the skills that we have within the bureau as well as address the expansion and the um the risk the inherent risk in being part of these task forces uh that comes with that. It is best practice in the profession to ensure that we um come well equipped to uh execute any kind of search warrants or violent moments or confrontations that we may face.
Do you face these potential high-risk situations alone as investigators or in tandem with law enforcement?
Uh, so the investigators are law enforcement. They are peace officers. Um, a lot of our operations are done jointly with our neighboring law enforcement agencies, both state, local, and federal.
Are they ever done independently of any other enforcement agency?
Yes. Um, they also are done independently. Some of our operations are done uh by our task force members or by our investigative teams um independent of a SWAT team per se.
But you're doing investigation as opposed to enforcement.
Correct. So a lot of our investigations do lead to an enforcement component to it. So investigations and enforcement are go hand in hand. If the investigation leads to uh the potential arrest of a subject, we will ensure that that occurs.
So the district attorney's office has you said 90 to 100 investigators and those investigators have the power to arrest.
Yes. So we are all peace officers um with powers of arrest. That is correct.
So it's really another police force in many ways.
It is uh very much designed like a a bureau of investigations. Um I came from San Jose PD and served in the Bureau of Investigations there. very similar um in its uh ability.
Every every BOI investigator, I believe you said, is issued a duty firearm. How many will be assigned AR-15s?
Uh if we were to have a um a stock of 30, it would likely be approximately 28.
How often are the recertification programs completed for uh your your investigators?
Every six months. The department spends upwards of $30,000 a year on ammunition to be used for training and field operations. Last year it spent a little over 37,000 and it's anticipated the department will spend another 37,000 um in in fiscal in the current fiscal 25-26. How many rounds of ammunition does the department maintain in the stockpile? And how is that amount and expense justified? Again, given that these rifles are predominantly used in training.
The ammo supplies fluctuate is the is the most accurate answer. We do yearly acquisitions that are contingent upon availability. Sometimes we wait 12 to 18 months for delivery. We do make um uh annual acquisitions so that we have the ammunition on hand to perform our our required training.
Yeah. Honestly, nothing you've said demonstrates a compelling uh need to me. I can't in in good conscience support the acquisition of additional firearms and ammunition at a time when the same department is proposing cuts to critical services such as victims of of violent crimes. I would prefer to see before the department directs any funding to the purchase of of AR-15s that will not bring greater safety to our community. I would truly hope that this office prioritizes the budget to direct services that protect and heal victims of crime. I would look to my my colleagues to encourage us to to deny the request as truly unnecessary to the promotion of public safety in our county. We've talked a lot about public safety today. Clearly, this is a very very robust um and seemingly well-armed department. I would move that we deny the requested uh action today and hope hope for a second.
I'll do the second. Thank you.
Motion seconded.
I was also very confused about the need of a higher amount of rifles in the district attorney's office. Do you not already hold a handgun?
We do. The rifle offers something that um a handgun does not. And I think the best example I can give was in Los Angeles during the North Hollywood shootout. And in that moment uh it was realized by the police in real time that they were facing an armed assailant who was two, as a matter of fact, who were wearing body armor and were armed with assault rifles at that time. It changed law enforcement completely that that event. and realizing that uh our handguns alone were insufficient for what we were now facing in modern society. I saw the shift in what used to be just carrying handguns to u both having the option of a rifle and a handgun. And that is a significant difference.
We are far from North Hollywood and we're even far from Oakland. Um and I'll tell you I my sister's always worked in Oakland as a police officer and an investigator. I have nothing against our our police department um having the kind of equipment that's going to protect our community. There's a difference between the district attorney and our in a police department. You are not a police department. And so you are not the first responders to the kind of incident that you just illustrated.
Correct. That is um that is true. We are not responding to 911 calls. However, if an investigator were to one, anything were to occur in this facility itself or if we're walking in the parking lot, we we are required to act and take action. Um the VTA shooting, for example, that was just down the street, if an investigator were to be present parking their vehicle or what have you, we would be with the police department acting in that capacity, in the capacity in which we are trained to act.
Yes. I heard a lot of ifs in your statement. Um but that is not your primary role. your primary role is uh as an investigator and if it requires uh to enforce for enforcement, but you're you're not first enforcing and then investigating.
Correct. Correct. You're doing the opposite of that. And so I find it just difficult to understand why we would need additional rifles in the district attorney's office being that we just participate in the gun buyback program. Um and then essentially the district attorney is doing their own buyback and releasing rifles that were never even utilized to enforce um the duties that you are um obligated to to do as as investigators. You're all in in the office believing that you need these tools that you haven't used since we created the policy. um and you're um sending back um guns into the system where we don't even know what is going to happen to them. That is another uh there's a consternation there for me in terms of why.
The report also uh includes ammunition, rifle accessories, flash devices, uh and and other items. I just wanted to understand whether your uh motion is intended to cover each of those items or just the rifles.
I I assume all of those things go together and are used together.
Okay. And I just wanted to clarify the secondary intent is aligned.
Yes. I actually will not be supporting the motion. I know that often times um our investigators will go out on calls with hand-in-hand with our um police departments. I've always felt that and and I've always supported um that you know folks in law enforcement have the tools that they need to and equipment that they need to be able to do their job. really often times putting their own lives on the line and often times when I look at public safety, law enforcement and fire um you know it's really kind of having an insurance policy and um so I feel very strongly about making sure our um personnel are equipped properly and so um I will not be able to support this motion. Thank you.
You said that you want to make sure that the law enfor law enforcement has the tools that they need. I also do I also believe that our law enforcement should have the tools. I I've said my sister's worked as a probation officer, police officer, investigator in sexual assault in the city of Oakland, not not in San Jose, in Oakland. So, I absolutely want her to have all of the tools available to her uh so she could be uh carry out her work. But you are not law enforcement. The DA is not law enforcement. you um are investigators. We have already our police departments in place, our sheriff's office in place that actually respond um in a way that I think um will help protect all of us. You already carry guns to protect yourselves and to ensure that that folks can comply in case they become violent. You're not law enforcement. your peace officers that are completing in investigations on behalf of our greatest prosecutor who is our district attorney. Um and so I just want it to be very clear that I am very uh supportive of our law enforcement. Um and I want them to have the tools. Um I just don't see that the tools fit here.
I'm still perplexed with this. I I think it's very true that the role of the district attorney and expert investigators really is investigating the crime more than actually doing the law enforcement work even though tangentially it would happen from time to time. The fact that you already have 20 rifles and the ammunition I think is is quite significant and I don't believe we should decrease those numbers. I really think those it's already inventory and I think that uh officers needs to be trained. Having another additional 10 I think is where is is bothering me as well. What we have been seeing is that we really have not seen an actual need uh on the field other than for training purposes which is a good thing. Our sheriff's department certainly have a a separate military uh equipment use policy that is very detailed of what they have as well. And I certainly do believe that our uh officers work closely with our other agencies including sheriff deputies and also the police officers SJPD uh as well. Based on those I will be supporting the motion on the table um right now.
Supervisor Abea.
Nay.
Supervisor Jung.
Yes.
Supervisor Ellenburgg.
Yes.
Vice President Renis.
Yes.
President Lee.
I as well. Thank you.
Believe that was 4 to 1.
Yes. Thank you very much.