Transcription
If you put business and big brands in digital media together, you get Grant Cardone. You know the name; huge following, millions and millions, gazillions of dollars in real estate. But what's really important, and why I wanted him for you here on the Chris Cuomo Project, is what he can teach us about how things can be better. I'm Chris Cuomo, welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project.
Grant Cardone is known really well. Um, is there controversy? Sure. It doesn't really matter to me. I think that there's a through-line with what he's about: his understanding of President Trump, why he supports him, what he thinks he needs to change, what he thinks will change, and how you and I can change how we use money in our lives to create wealth. Every time I hear that, I'm like, you know, this has got to be a gimmick, not the way he sells it. And it's really interesting, so I wanted to talk to him about all of these things and have some fun along the way. So we're going to jump right into this conversation where Grant was already telling me how I should sell my apartment that we're in right now. Grant [Music]
Cardone: The only way I would try to sell a home in America today is if I offered owner financing. If I was buying a house, the only way I would try to buy a house is with creative owner financing, because the cost of money's gotten too high.
Yeah, because you basically, you're basically solving a problem that banks can't solve right now, and you become cheap money because I have the ability to back it.
Yeah, exactly. So, so like I had a, I have a house in Miami, and and we put it on the market, right? We put it on the market for a bunch of Bitcoin. It was really just to, come on, right? So to get a bunch of attention. If I list the house—no, I mean it's just another house—but because I said, "I will only take Bitcoin," and then boom, everybody started covering. So this rapper calls me and says, "Hey, will you sell me your house?" I said, "Sure. 20 million down." I think it was 20; I forget what I offered him. 20. I said 20, and I'll carry the other 20 for you at like nothing. And 'cuz I was really hoping he would just give me the 20, you know, make six or eight months of payments and get a house back, and then [ __ ] bust out.
Do you and I get the house twice?
Yeah.
Do you believe in crypto as—
Yeah, uh-huh.
Yeah, very much so.
And you believe it's going to be consistent with the dollar over time?
It's the, it's a new currency. Well, I, you know, the, the, the I'm, I'm just starting to really do my 100 hours on investigating. I was with Mike Sailor last Friday while they were buying $4 billion worth—
You talked to Scaramucci?
Uh, yeah, I have talked to Scaramucci.
Do you like him?
Uh, yeah. I'd want to like him. I do want to like—very intelligent guy. He's easy to like. He doesn't like—that's personal.
Yeah. I just don't—
Yeah, that, that's the part that throws me off a little bit. He's so personal about—my bro, just let it go, man. Like—well, it doesn't have to be your leading trunk—your your first card. If he had said about you what he said about Anthony and his wife, by the way, then would you forgive it so easy?
I don't know. We'll go there in a second. You see, you don't—This is the problem with handsome guys—
No, I, I don't, I don't, I don't know. You know, I, um, I don't think I would have got in that [ __ ] match in the first place.
Yeah, well, that's Anthony. Um, you know, he's another brand of Italian, kind of like you—the Italians with the fine features—
He looks at that [ __ ] ugly—
No, Scaramucci—not for an Italian man—you don't—
You think you're a good-looking man, but I have big chewy—Pull up a picture of Scaramucci. I got to know—the same—talking about the same guy. Yeah. You've been talking about like some other guy, but he's got the fine features. He's got the fine nose, fine—you know what I'm talking about, dude.
I know what Anthony looks like. He's one of—
He doesn't know how to dress. He is overly challenged. He's vertically challenged.
Vertically—vertically challenged.
Okay. He never takes care of himself. He's [ __ ] flabby. He's had health issues. He's had health issues. He's getting over them, but his face—I'm just—I only want to stipulate to the face, bro. He looks like a caveman when he talks.
No, no, for Italian—very fine features.
Oh my god. Telling you, that's why you know he's Sicilian because—
I gay? You gay?
No, I'm a straight man, but I can appreciate when a man is good-looking.
So back to cry—crypto.
Okay. Yes.
So, so what I, I am not a a gambler. I, I get—I don't know. I own no gold, no stocks, no silver, nothing. But I do know one thing for sure: that money is worth nothing. This idea that cash is king was a lie. And "God we trust" on the back of the bill—uh, it's garbage, dude.
Why? Why? Because it—not nothing. It's just—it, it's paper that's printed over and over and over again. So like what I, what I do is I, you know, I want people—I want connections. Okay, we have a connection. You and I have a connection, and we figure out how to do some business, and you give me some paper for it. I don't want that piece of paper, because I'm gonna lose it. Somebody's going to steal it. Government's gonna tax it. My kids are going to grab it. My wife thinks she's entitled to it—she's right. That's some of my way. I leave it in my desk, and you know the next thing you know, it's missing. The maid grabs it. So what I do is I, I've learned how to convert the paper to something real, like this building or lots of these buildings.
So you're all about real estate.
Well, well, but, but real estate's got its problems, okay? It's slow, it's, it's heavy. It has termites and tenants and toilets and roofs and all the [ __ ], right? But it comes with great tax write-offs. So the Bitcoin thing—the thing about Bitcoin—Bitcoin is like Sailor talks about it being Manhattan in cyberspace, right? Because it can move—is very fluid. But I think once—you know—I would never bet on Bitcoin in the beginning to create wealth. I would use real—I would use people—if that's not a terrible word—used in a good way—that we're using one another, right?—to create—to get fiat—to invest in real—in something real and get that real thing to pay me cash, and I would use the distributions to live off of or to buy my next—my Bitcoin investment.
How do you deal with the volatility?
Well, I don't ever trade anything. So you know—but I'm saying if you put up 21 years—so good. I don't do trade. That's a good investment. But the—let's say it's—and we're going to, you know, neither one of us are going to look as good as the Bitcoin will in 20 years from now.
Well, that's for sure. You—I don't know your age, and will—I don't know. We'll see what happens. But 90,000 today could be 30,000 a week from now.
Yeah, and I, and I, and I buy some more. I expect it to go there, actually. I think it does go back down.
Uh-huh.
But, but I'm a 10-year guy. I'm a 10, 15, 20-year guy. You're a patient—like if you look at the—because you're Catholic, right?
Yeah, I was raised Catholic.
So—the—not the Vatican—what's what's the name of the building that's so—so—and everybody loves so much?
The Vatican.
Oh, it's the Vatican. Okay. I mean, how long you got—St. Peter's Basilica—there you go. That's what I'm thinking of. How—how long's that building been there?
Long time.
The Catholic Church owns more real estate than any other group on planet Earth. So if you can go long periods of time, you're going to be fine. But if you're trying to get in and out—you know—Trump—Trump lost the uh Plaza—overleveraged it—probably, you know, top five pieces of real estate on planet Earth—overleveraged it, couldn't weather the storm, lost it. It's got to be one of his great regrets, um, probably because the prestige of that building made him—that made him what they call in Yiddish a mocker. He was a, he was a top-tier guy, totally, um, with that. And then when it went down, it, it defined him for a long time.
Would you consider going into the administration to help your friend President-elect Trump?
I would go—yes. Yeah, I would.
Yeah, but to help the people.
Why else would you go?
Yeah, I would. Well, not to help him so much is—I, I would do it to help the people. I think I, I think if I would could get a position where I could actually help transform things, which I think could be very easily done, by the way. I think easily done. I think there's a number of things that could be easily done.
What can be done easily?
Well, for, for instance, that night that you, you were so nice to have me on your show, and uh, and we're going to do it again. Okay, with—with—
You know why? 'Cuz he's handsome. Go ahead.
Okay, with Bill—Bill—Bill was on. I didn't know he was going to be on, right? I've never debated a politician, but I'm like, these guys are out of ideas. Like—like I'm like—that, that wasn't a debate. He has no solutions except Section 8, government, raise taxes, build something. You don't need to do that [ __ ]. Like there's so many things that can be done that, that a businessman does with no budget—like that government can do—'cuz government isn't working on a profit. They don't have business. I was at an event this morning with—what was it—Bazinga?
Okay.
Yeah. I left an event—my event yesterday. I had 1,000 people at the event for two days. I come to their event; they got [ __ ] 35 people there, 'cuz they're funded. They, they, they raise money from some investors, and they don't know how to get money to fill the room. So I, I've never taken any investors' money. In the beginning, we took no money. I have no promotion—like no sponsorship. I just learn how to get money, right? So, so with the government—the problem with the government is it just always gets money from another group, where business people would—the housing problem—there's 4 million vacant homes right now in America today that literally—you could literally give to someone. There's not 4 million—there's not a shortage of housing in America. Everybody says there's a shortage of housing. It's [ __ ]—it's not true.
It is, it because those homes are not affordable or habitable. There's, there's empty bedrooms—all—look, this is one of them. I could sleep here tonight if I made the right deal with you. I don't need to go buy a house.
So if you wanted to stay here, the answer would be yes.
Okay. Um, but, but you know, they're, they're all over the place. There's—but, but the government says, "Oh, we have to build something new, and we have to raise dollars, and we need to make another rule and another law. It's not necessary." Okay, go to Dubai. You've been to Dubai. Look how they're building over there. I go to New Jersey. I cross the river over there; it takes seven years to build something.
So you think it's regulations?
Oh, 100%—regulations. And, and they should give incentives to a guy like me. I have 15,000 apartments—there's what—a thousand of them are vacant right now. If they came to me and said, "Fill those units up, we'll give you no taxes on those 1,500 units," I'd be—I'd [ __ ] fill them up—sweet. Hold on. And it'd be a good deal for them. I get it. It'd be a good deal for the city. It's a good deal for me—the investor. There are already vacant units all over New York, all over New Jersey, all over Miami.
So wait, so slow it down for me. Let's—why are there 4 million vacant homes? Why are there a thousand vacant Cardone apartments?
Because nobody can keep anything full, because I have this, this, this somebody coming in, then they're going to leave you. Nobody stays full. Nobody ever builds the right amount.
So you don't believe it's a supply issue?
No, uh-huh. 100%. I don't. But, but I tend to think around—I bend around corners. So—and even if it is a supply issue—like he wants to build on federal land—I mean, who wants to live on federal land? People can't live anywhere else, but then they don't have a job because they can't get anywhere. Yeah, I mean, like who—you know, there's no jobs out there. So that's the problem. 80% of the population lives in like 20 cities, and they're—those cities are going to get bigger, and it's—you know—
Do you think the cities get bigger, or do you think people with remote work and stuff like that just start moving to the places that are more sparsely populated?
I think—I think the remote work failed really, and it will never—it will never work, and you're going to see people go back to office buildings, really.
Yeah.
And you're going to have bigger office buildings, not smaller ones. Really. This is very uh unconventional thinking, because I got to tell you—
Well, my business is a little different. It isn't working well in my business. You need to be around.
I know. Right now, my team's like—this guy—I'm only there like once a week. It's different.
Yeah, I do my own writing. I talk to Dusty, my EP, all day long. But the connective tissue matters in my business. But for a lot of people—I have people who work remote. They like it. The company doesn't—
You don't think the company doesn't—
No, I know. I mean, I—you look—they've all quit it. They—everybody that was for it—everybody that said it was going to work—
I don't know how you looked like this on that couch the whole time like this. I feel uncomfortable for you.
Why? 'Cuz it's like that—
Oh, no, no, no. This is fine. I'm sitting like this 'cuz I have herniated discs in my back from the fighting.
Um, who you fighting?
I have been doing different kinds of self-defense and ground fighting for 35 years. But um, something—I got kicked like two weeks ago by mistake, but we were sparring. But I mean—and I'm old, so like [ __ ] that used to hurt is now an injury, so I'm just living on a leave and waiting for it to go away.
You look good for being old, dude. You look good for being old.
So, so continue your point. Um, what was it—what we were talking about—see, that you don't even remember. See, so I'm thinking about your back—
You—thank you very much. You are, because I know what pain's like. Pain's terrible, man. Pain is terrible.
You read the Sarno book?
No. See, we're similar. We jump around topics. It's where our brains are. It's good, though. Um, the Sarno book—Oh My Aching Back—is a good way to deal with the pain. The pain is real, but your tension around it uh makes it stay.
Yeah. Um, you were taking me through housing and then the transition—remote work.
Yeah. So, so we have 260 employees in Miami, another 250 or so in Arizona. We never shut down. You come to work. You come to work every day, sometimes six to seven days a week, and if you don't want to, you just don't get to work there. So we never, ever shut down. We—I never bought the [ __ ]—
How many people did you lose?
Oh, I don't know. I've hired thousands of people. But I'm saying plus—h—like—like I've been through thousands of people. But I'm not saying I'm proud of my turnover. I'm not saying—
Turnover in terms of the nature of your business—dynamic—I'm saying from that decision—
No, we grew. I mean, we just grew. Net-net, we grew. So during the pandemic, people didn't say, "I can't come in." I'm sure they did, and then we add—found people that would—you remember—I think it was September 23rd or something—and Google and the banks and Facebook said—on September—there was some date—let's pretend it was that date—on this date, if you, if you don't um get vaccinated, you cannot work here anymore, right? Okay. So the date—when I saw that coming down—two days before that—it was a Monday—I advertised on, on Google and Facebook and just did a little meme—did a little popup—if you work for Google, any of the banks, Facebook, the airlines, I will hire you, relocate you. We had 4,700 resumes in 48 hours.
Wow.
We couldn't even respond to all of them. I bet. We opened a remote thing up. We did a remote thing and said, "Hey, we're going to hire salespeople from around the country. You get to stay where you're at." It was a bit of a come-on. You can, you can stay remote. Okay. We had like—I don't know—6,000 interviews. Now what happened was those people that we hired, we then invited into our office and said, "Would you like to be in this environment or would you like to go home and do this on your own?" And they're like, "Man, I'd rather stay here because of the environment." And that's the problem with office, right? The real problem with office is not where somebody wants to be is that the company's not providing a winning environment and a culture where there's, you know, there's pressure and compression and motivation and excitement. I think that's why leadership is so important—one of the reasons—is culture, uh, whether it's you, um, Anthony, who's better looking than you give him credit for, uh, or our friend Patrick Bet-David—you go to that Valuetainment place—
Yeah.
Those people—and I know it's not just Valuetainment—he's got his consulting, he's got the insurance—they believe—oh yeah—as a team in that place, and it's such a force multiplier. And it's an interesting transition point for us because I believe that belief—reason to believe—is really at a low right now. Somebody said something to me this morning—made me realize—I don't hear people say enough—like the flag has become the Republican Party symbol. I don't know why the Democrats gave it to the Republicans, but they did. You see a rep—I have a flag on my truck, right? People say to me—I don't have like a big flag hanging off—I have a stick—and they'll say to—
You don't have a 40-footer?
Yeah. They'll say, "Why do you have—why do you have a flag on your truck?" Yeah. I said, " 'Cuz I'm proud of my country." Exactly. And they're like, "Oh, I just—I'm surprised that you, you know, you do that because Democrats hate the country." I was like, "First of all, Democrats don't hate the country. I'm not a Democrat." But uh, the point remains—where do you think we are, and how fundamental is it to what you say in terms of getting things done easily that you believe that, that's the culture—that that's where you are—that people are motivated to do things different?
Yeah, I mean, look, man, belief is everything. Like, you know—well, and what—most of the time I don't have it. I grew up very similar situation to you. You—I mean, you have way more connections than I did. But, but, but you had them all—like I, I wasn't connected.
You didn't have money, maybe? But I don't know, maybe you did.
No, we didn't have money, and I didn't have a father. Okay. And, and so all I had was stories about the Great Depression—food lines—be grateful for what you have—like you, you need to be happy. I'm like [ __ ] happy. Goddamn, everybody's worried every goddamn day. You're clipping coupons. You're spending freaking—my mom just sat there and clipped on the dotted line. She, she knew where every one of those coupons were. She knew what day they worked. I mean, she's like, "Stay out of that drawer." Uh, I'm an identical twin with the last of five kids, and, and me and my brother—I'm 11 years old—we're in there pissing and down the hallway. I piss; I go to flush, and my mom's like, "No, let him piss too." Like, "Save the water." Everything was about saving—fear. There was so much fear. We were middle class. We were a middle-class family, but there was fear everywhere—no belief—or really the belief was negative. You're going to go broke. Something bad's going to happen. The roofer's going to [ __ ] you. The car dealer's going to screw you. Uh, you know, you can't make any investments. The investment guy's going to screw you. Everything was like—it was just terrible, dude.
Hey, that's exactly what just decided this election, by the way. Is you have a majority, right? I mean, you know, the numbers are the numbers. You have a majority in the country, and you know the, the Democrats lost the plot on this point—that the pain is real—
Yeah.
Out there, and it's not a relative assessment. No one wants to say, "Well, but Grant's got it worse than you did."
Right. Right. I'm sorry for Grant. I worry about me, or you know—the economy is not what it was a year ago. We're in a better place now. I don't feel better.
Right. Right. Uh, I'm worried about everything.
Yeah. I cannot live the dream, and the American dream is largely about having things. Yeah, and they're seeing it now on Instagram. This is the other thing that's happened that, that I think is that nobody's talking about—when social media hit and people like idiots like me start showing off their plane and their car, all of a sudden it becomes real. And I think people have seen possibility—you're—you know—
So wait, you see it as aspirational?
It's aspirational—like not them judging you—like you're part of the elite now. I have to hate you.
Well, they are—they are—there is some of that. But, but it went at scale so hard. It used to be the kings, you know, hid behind the, the walls, right? You, you didn't—unless you got in the bedroom, you didn't see what the sheets were like. Today, man, you can see the sheets. You can see the sheets—the lifestyle, the trips, the vacations, the watches, the cars—like for the first time ever, the, the, the cover on the rich has been pulled back, and it's normal people—like I'm a normal guy. I grew up in the bayous of Louisiana, dude. Like—like people—he can do that. I can do this. And I think that, that's very aspirational, and that's the leadership that you're talking about—the believability of—like he can do it. I can do it. I don't like the—but your shape and your condition—your muscle tells me—hey, if he can have that at 64 years old, I can—
I'm 54.
I'm 54. Scaramucci—when he—like the way he walks around, you know—I'm like, "Oh, shit." He's had health issues—whatever—he was a college lacrosse player—whatever. I'm telling you, he'll be back.
Have you had health issues?
Oh, I've had health—I have a health issue, please. I am a virus.
But you look good.
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I, I'm okay with—I, I get why people say, "Hey, I don't like the two sets of rules. I don't like that it's rigged. I don't like that." I get it. I get it. That's one kind of elite. That's one kind of establishment. My concern is that we seem to be punishing the idea of success. Yeah, you know, that like—no—it's anyone who's wealthy is somehow bad. And you know, look, I mean, I get that my father was a real anti-elitist because they had looked down on, on him as an Italian. He was never considered a white guy. You and I are white guys. That generation—my father was described as a swarthy ethnic—gap-tooth Mario—is he a Mafiosi? That's how he was dealt with. He didn't give him jobs. He shared the valedictory at his school with an Irish guy because they were in control of the school. So he was the real deal.
Mhm.
But he never punished the dream of being rich. He would just say to people—like he loved meeting people who had done it themselves—and he said, "Let me ask you—what are you going to do with it? What, what are you—what are you going to do with it? What do you want to do with the money?" And that was his point of fascination is like, you know, he was curious about—
Yeah, like what you—I mean, what are you going to give it to your kids? You're just going to ruin them. So what do you want to do with it? And that was—he never was—I don't like you 'cuz you're wealthy now. It's like we're punishing success as a way of reducing people's concern that they're not good enough and to give them someone to be angry at. I think there is that audience of, of haters and, and that, that have quit on the dream, you know. But, but I also know that there's an audience out there that's like inspired and aspired by it. They just don't get the headlines, you know. They're not the protesters, right? So, so you know, the, the media is not going to pick up—I love Grant Cardone, by the way. Now I'm a cult—
Yeah, you have a big following.
Yeah. But, but I'm just saying it becomes culty—like—like negative if people follow. But it's not like—it's not like—as opposed to—people hate—like hate is a cult too.
That's true. And look, depending on what you're selling, it works for you either way, right? As long as they'll pay attention to you—it doesn't—
Oh, you haters out there, please don't quit hating on me. Okay? You keep my fire [ __ ] bright. Don't quit.
Why do you think you have haters?
Well, personally, I think hate—hate is just a perverted uh form of admiration. I just think it's a—they, they, they actually admire me, and they can't send me that because uh, because they're reminded that they quit on that very—
Thing that I that I accomplished? I don't have that problem. Like when I I was with this guy, he's worth 12 or 13 billion dollars, self-made guy, number eight, 12, you know, rated eight on the Forbes list. I don't hate him, dude, because he's rich; I admire him. Like, to me, I just want to praise him, like, "Dude, that's amazing." He had to get it; he had to keep it, and then he had to figure out how to multiply it. You know, now he's got to figure out how to give it away, like your dad was, you know. I mean, you don't have to give both. I think it is an interesting thing, like, what do you do? Um, but my point is that plenty of people can get money, and a lot of people even have trouble with that. Most of the country knows how to get it; they don't know how to keep it. And and and part of this is because, and this is where I kind of think a little different than most people, we have been, we have not, we are not financially illiterate; okay, we are financially indoctrinated to not have money. You cannot have a country that's this wealthy and have so many people that aren't wealthy unless those people were educated to play the game like this, you know, which is what—to live on credit? No, no, definitely not. They they need to—right, that's your idea about cash is king. Don't you have concerns? Save save your money, save your money, save your money, save your money. You can't save money; it's impossible. It there has never been in the history of money a way to save money. Well, people have savings. No, it's—No, no, no, no, they have a deception. You put a million dollars in an account in 2020; today you open it up, you didn't earn any interest on it. Let's say it's going to say a million dollars; it's a Bank of America, City Bank, Goldman Sachs; it's going to still say a million dollars under your name, but what they didn't tell you was that it does not buy a million dollars worth of services. If it was true, like truth in, I don't know, currency, there was a truth and truth and currency display on there where you had to give complete acknowledgement that that is only $680,000. Oh, because of the cost of living? Yes, because it was like this money was printed in 2020. It would then say, my money was—I got a 1958 in my pocket, right? I don't really—but $100. That's—It should say on there, 10 bucks. Is that when you were born? Yeah. See, I know his age. I don't upsell him by 10 years, but go ahead. I'm over it; I'm over it. Not really; I'm not over it; I'm not over it. All right, now I'm over it; now I'm over it. I so easy to get this guy, all you got to do is bring up his looks, 10 years older than I am. No, you look great, dude; you look great, dude. Continue. You look great. So what do you think we should be telling people? No examples. We need to We need to quit telling people anything; we need to show people examples. Show me how you can do this; like, show me how to do it [ __ ] quit teaching me [ __ ]; okay, show me how to get a dollar, show me what to do with a dollar. Okay, when we at our at our classes, like we have kids come in our school room, we do not teach them first; we say, earn and then learn, get the bag. Now what? Oh [ __ ] that worked, right? I don't teach a kid about candy; I let him eat the candy. He's like, "I want another lick of that." So So we're not we're we're teaching children and their their parents the wrong way. We're overwhelmed with information: You need life insurance; you need to save money; you need to diversify; you got to have a, you know, 40% here of 2 million. I'm like, [ __ ] I don't know; I ain't got to do anything; I'm confused. So what am I going to do? I'm gonna leave my money at the bank. What does the money What does the bank do with my money? They l they lend it out to people like me; they do not keep the money. So so I wrote uh Trump and the Harris administration—uh, I didn't call it Make America Americans Wealthy again with Harris, but I called it something else—but with him, I'm like, "Hey, let me help you roll a program out on the 20th of January where we we educate all Americans how to have wealth, the path, how to get there, the Rex along the way, what wealthy people do with their money, you know, like it's all an open book. Why don't we just teach people that? Schools can't?"
Imagine if every American at least had a choice to have wealth. Does capitalism support that when you need winners and losers? Oh yeah, 100%. How? Because I mean, you don't have to have losers. Well, everybody could be an exchange; everybody can win in in a in in a real in a deal, in a great deal, everybody would win; there would not be a loser. The deal that I put together for you for your house, if you wanted to sell this place, everybody wins on that [ __ ] deal, except the bank, cuz right now the bank wins on every transaction, the good, the bad, the ugly, everything. So what we did at like Cardone Capital is I basically bypassed the bank, Goldman Sachs, B, you know, all these guys down south; I've never gotten a penny from them. I could uh raised a billion dollars, bu 1.5 billion, bought $5 billion worth of real estate, and I just don't use them; I go to people; I go to the world; I go to the people that actually need the investments, regular everyday people. There's millions of us, and and rather than rather than look look what you've done with your show, okay, rather than depending upon the network, what was the name of that network, the one I'm at? No, the one you were at. Oh, CNN. Yeah, yeah, rather than depending on them, boom, you're going to do your own thing, and that's what we did with money, and people can actually start thinking about how to do that with money and cut out the [ __ ] rich guys. I'm not a rich guy. Okay. Yeah, you are. No, no, Fidelity is a rich guy; Fidelity is 14 trillion; Fidelity is a lot of rich guys, but you're a rich guy. Well, yeah, but good thing—No, thank you. But but yeah, no, from nothing. So yeah, from a drug problem at 24 years old, but so but but the the the wealth or the real wealth in this country is in a handful of machines, right? Not people. It's not Jeff Bezos that that is the bad guy. So how can government address that, or are you crazy because you're going against the power structure? Barack Barack passed the Jobs Act that opened this up; they gave me permission to go raise money online at scale, so that was a great that was a great passage of that act. They need to lower the the requirements, you know, there's this nonaccredited accredited thing the the SEC has in this terrible; it's discriminatory; ABS is racist, like borders on racism because it's self it's too selective. If you make $189,000 and I come to you, I say, "Chris, man, I got this deal, dude; I bought it; I'm buy I'm buying it with my money; this is how we do our deals; I'm buying it with my cash, and then I'm going to give it to a bunch of guys; whoever wants it can have it, and and if you guys don't want it, I'm going to keep the whole [ __ ] thing to myself. This deal is a screamer," and the SEC would say you can't invest in that deal because I don't make enough money to be in, smart enough; you're not sophisticated enough; you caveman looking at Taliano [ __ ]. They say they're protecting people from so much risk; they're protecting Blackstone and Black Bank of America and Wells Fargo and Fidelity; that's why that law was put in; that's a [ __ ] law. Who really needs that investment? And then, by the way, if you make 200 grand a year or even 189,000, that lower number, you can only put 10% of your money in that deal. Now, why in a free country should you be protected by the government? Yeah, man, like, what if that's the deal that's going to change your life? It changed my life. Investing made me a credit investor, not earning income. Okay, my earned income is going to go down in value; I earn income, save it at the bank, good for the bank, the bank, the bank's not going to even keep it; okay, they're going to send it out to investors, the Black Stones and the Black Rocks; that's how this system works, and it bypassed the little guy. So they basically got access to all the little guy; 97.5% of the entire American public is nonaccredited and don't get access to alternative great investments. The problem of the big guys eating everything up for themselves. Um, your brother in arms uh in in supporting the president, Bobby Kennedy, says that the housing shortage is because of big guys buying up a ton of units. Yeah, not true; that's not true. Big guys own a very little bit of the real estate in America, so it's just not true; just finding a convenient guy that people don't like, which is the big guy, right? Well, I mean, I know he he he thinks they're buying all of it; like we buy we buy assets from them, so they're not buying all of it, because I know where I'm buying my assets from. The real problem is Americans are buying single family homes rather than the assets that the big guys are buying, which are what—the multi family homes? Yeah, uh-huh, 100%. So Americans have been educated by the banks again. Can they afford it though? People will say, "I can't buy a house." Like I was talking with Greg, my producer, you know, he's got a little baby—for me to buy this whole building than one unit. But how would you get the capital? Uh, I I mean, for you? Yeah, because you're a man of means. No, because I could get a loan; I could get a loan on this whole building easier than I could get a loan on one unit. Really? Let's pretend I could get everybody out that owns this property; I could try to buy one unit, or how many how many how many units are in this building? 50. Let's say there's 50; I could get a loan on the 50 without even using my own personal credit, but if I tried to buy one, I would need my own personal credit. This people just don't know this; I didn't know it, of course not, because the Bank of America said you should you should buy a home; your dad told you you should buy a home; your his grandparent his your granddad said, "Buy a home; don't rent; buy a home; don't rent; buy a home; don't rent." What he should have said is, "Buy the whole building and rent it out to other people, and then go live some other place," but they didn't tell us that. I was 28 years old; I bought my first house; I shouldn't have; I should have invested in my business and in myself. What's a 28-year-old kid hunkering down for? Like, like it's just the priority of the sequence of investing is incorrect.
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So you want to be a success in selling? It is not so much about the product as it is placement and performance of the shopping experience of that product; that's the key. The selling of a business often comes from the business behind the business that makes that sales experience possible. Think of Allirds, Aviator Nation; it's all about what happens when you go there; that kind of works to make you want to make purchases all the way through, from how you experience the site to what seems to entice to how easy the transaction is; that's why businesses start killing it and selling through the roof. Upgrade your business; get the same checkout that Allirds or Aviator Nation uses; sign up for your $1 a month trial at shopify.com/chriscall, all lowercase; that's the key, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com/chrisc, all lowercase, to upgrade your selling today, shopify.com/chrisc. Let me put your mind to a different matter. Um, when you look at government, other than this kind of uh rigged capital system, um, you were enthusiastic about the president getting in because you believe things need to be disrupted and changed. Like what? Well, first of all, I don't I don't believe he's a Republican, so let let me just get that out of the way for everybody. I I don't think Donald Trump is a Republican. What is he? I think the Republican party is not the rep—I think it's a MAGA; I think it's—I think this is a new thing, man. So wait, he's not a Republican, and the Republicans aren't the Republicans. So who are they? I think some of those guys are Republicans, but I think—What is he? I don't think—I think he's a—I think he's a—he's a—he's a freak of nature politically. What is he? I I I don't think he's a Republican; I think he's—I think he's MAGA, actually. I think this MAGA thing is actually a real thing now; I wouldn't have said that four or five years ago. Something happened where this Make America Great Again thing is starting to really resonate with people, like, "Yeah, I want my country back; I want greatness; I want potential." Back from who? I want it back from drifting off into [ __ ] boys' bathrooms and Ukraine and like the drift to save the world. Okay, and it's fine, save the whole world if you save if your cities are fine, but you know our resources are starting to look depleted. Why Ukraine and not Israel? Uh, Israel too, by the way. If I was president, I'd say we're banning all wars for 12 years; we're not going to [ __ ] invest anything. You guys kill yourselves; go for it; you got 12 years, [ __ ] hit it, hit it hard, but we're going to stay out of all your [ __ ]; we're going to reinvest all the money right here in America. In 12 years from now, y'all going to look up and see a freaking super country. But what about your allies? I'm not worried about them right now, for for a short period of time. I know I know it seems impossible. I mean, Ukraine is one thing, but I would not have uh uh the IRS; I would collect no internal revenue service taxes. Then where do you get the revenue for the government? Property taxes. So I didn't pay any federal last year. Well, then wouldn't that affect people's ability to buy property? No. Why not? It'd be because I have more money now. Oh, because there's no income. I I made 10—let's say I made $10 million last year; now I don't pay $4 million in federal; I have $4 million to dice. But isn't it just a shift in pockets? But now you're going to have to pay a lot more in—Yeah, it's back to my pocket, not not Adam Shift or you know what—whoever these people are—Donald Trump; it shouldn't be up to Donald Trump how we use money or Barack; it shouldn't be up to those people; it should be up to me how I use my money. Let me just go work my money. Then what funds the government? Property taxes. Wouldn't they have to be crazy high? No. But like, right, last year, last year I I paid no federal—Okay, no federal taxes, but I paid 40 million in property taxes; I paid a bunch of social security taxes; I have a bunch of employees, so I'm contributing, but only at the local level. So why should I fund New York City if I'm not invested here? Cuz we're all in it together; that's why, because it's a country; you're supposed to take care of each other. How do you explain how Mississippi and Louisiana did? Because we don't do it well. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that that's what—like, look, why do we call America the experiment? We call America the experiment, or America is referred to as an experiment. Uh-huh. Because nobody's ever done this before, and it's hard. We should experiment with some of this new stuff. Then I think that there is—what do they call it?—paralysis by analysis. We live in a society that is driven by me making advantage over proving you [ __ ] up. Mhm. Personally, all day long; anything I can get you on. Uh-huh. Doesn't matter what you did; you You could be saving a child from the mouth of a tiger, right? Right, right. If I find out that you also did this thing that's somehow moral—it's got to be moral; it's got to be moral or immoral, because we are a completely faux puritanical society, right? We'll kill you for that, but we all do it, right? You—if I show a nipple on TV tonight, I'm done; I'm fired. We consume more porn than any other country per capita, so it's got to be moral. So on the personal level, all got you all the time, and then in terms of how we look at government and look at people who try things, the expression is, "America loves a comeback," yeah, after we killed you the first time. You know, once we killed you the first time, then yeah, we'll see if you can come back. I think that's a reason that people don't experiment. Uh-huh. Now, not—I'm saying on the big level, you experimented; you know, you you made ways of doing things that you know were very risky, and now you know how to do them and reduce the risk, but on the government level, on the political level, people don't want to take risks because you get judged by your failures, not your successes. Yeah. But when you got a guy like Elon getting in there saying, "Hey, I I don't care," yeah, or he does care more and has nothing to lose. He doesn't care about what people say about what he does. Yeah, exactly. Um, but and he's not going to be up for another term either, having to sell himself. Neither is Trump. I think that's a great combination. What do you think of people who say, "Whoa, what Cuomo just said, we don't know that that that that's true; we don't know that he's going to leave; we don't know that he's not going on a revenge tour; we're not going to let—He wants to be a dictator." Hey, I hear it all the time. Do you? Yeah, and I got to tell you, he's not a dictator. You know what people don't like to hear me say that? People get so mad at me. This guy wants to win, period. I I I know this guy; this guy, high ego, extremely high ego. What's the What's the value of extremely high ego? I want to win; I want to look good, and I want to be remembered in a good way. He does not want to lose; he does—He wants to do good things, probably more so now today than even the first time. He is not on the Cardone Cuomo fitness plan. No, no, he's not, dude. He may want to look good, but he has a different definition than you and I do. I mean, there's something to be said; there's something to be said about a guy that can eat [ __ ] McDonald's, drink Coca-Cola—like his belief right now might be like, "I don't—I'm good," and belief—the mind over matter thing is real [ __ ]. You're you're in good shape because you believe you can be. Let's keep it real, and I do the work, and you do the work, but you wouldn't do the work if you didn't believe you can make yourself look a certain way. It is true. So the number one thing that knocks you off a diet is that you feel that you're not going to meet your goal, right? Why would I keep depriving myself? Um, I get it, and I think that translates—I think a big problem that we have now is that we're addicted to the negative, and we apply it nowhere else in our lives. I mean, just imagine parents talking to their kids the way we discuss our politics, and you know me looking at my son and being, "Look, look, let's be honest, okay? You're not going to set the world on fire, all right? I know you say you want to do this; you want to do that; I don't think you're going to do it." Right, right. And this work in politics, we do that all the time, right? Right. Uh, this one's worse than this. Well, which one's worse? You know, your kid comes home, "How'd you do on the test?" "I got a 71." "71? Hey, my friend got a 68." Oh, okay. That would never happen, you know, with your kid, but in politics, we do it all the time. You know, this guy, oh, man, he's got all these things wrong with him. Oh, yeah, but you know, she's kind of worse. All right, then I got to go with him. We don't apply this anywhere else. When you're looking at investments and someone showed you—well, you're going to lose 18% on this one, but you lose 24% on that one, so let's invest—you're like, "Get the [ __ ] out of my office!" Exactly. Our politics, we do not treat with that sense of pride in what it can be, but that's because the parties benefit from dragging us down; that's their currency; that's—You think both parties? Oh, yeah, benefit from that. Oh, yeah, all day. Now, the Democrats made a fundamental—you know, much more about politics than I do; I have I have no idea how complicated—I think that the problem is thinking it's complicated; it's real simple; it's all uh Occam's razor. Um, it's all—What is Occam's razor? Straight line analysis of the the most uh the best solution will often be the most obvious, the most direct, fastest way for me, and in politics, it's okay; it's me versus Cardone uh in this election. I got a problem; uh, this guy's got a lot of things going for him; I have to make him lose. Uh-huh. I'm not going to beat him; it is too hard. Uh-huh. It's too low percentage. What do we have on him? First thing I do is invest in people that can tell me what's wrong with Cardone. Here's the people; here's what it is; that's all I'm talking about, and you're like, "Wait a minute; I thought we were trying to decide who's going to build the park." Right, right, for the kids. Yeah, but it can't be you. Why? Why not? Because—Yeah, you—I heard you nibble on TV one night; I heard you did that, and that's the easiest way—that's the—especially in a binary system; that's why I have such a problem with the party system. Um, if it's just you and them, what direction is it going to go? Us lifting each other up? No, it's a battle to the bottom, and the Democrats made the mistake of playing Trump's game, which is grievance. Trump was the head of a grievance movement, right? And as the head of a grievance movement, if you get into the witch's worst, you lose, because he was coming into it with people wanting to disrupt everything she represents, not her race or her gender necessarily, right? Racism, sexism; that's a real thing, but this election overall was, "Who's more pissed?" Mhm. His side's more pissed. Now, I didn't know his side was a majority of the country. Yeah, I thought he—I thought it was his race to lose, but I did not think he'd win the popular vote, and she was a terrible option; she was put in a bad position. I had a guy today say she should have declined to run; she should have known that she was going to be a bad candidate. Didn't everybody else around her though? Isn't that how she got Timmy, but Walls? Well, they always try to balance tickets. Yeah, that was like—that was—You think she should have picked Shapiro? She picked anybody. I I don't think anybody—I don't think she did the picking; I think somebody said, "I'll do it." I don't think she had a pick; I don't think anybody wanted to roll with her. Like, if I look at her as a human, as human talent, okay, and I'm like, "Okay, do I want her to run my company? Do I want her to communicate to my investors? Do I want her to sell my guys on being motivated?" [ __ ] none of that; none of that; like, she's got nothing. She—I mean, maybe she's intelligent, but I—Where where is it? I didn't see it; I didn't hear—She's got to be in lawyer, prosecutor, attorney general. Why does she have Why does she have to be? Because being an attorney general is not an easy job; okay, maybe you got to be smart; I don't know; I have no clue what she did as an attorney general, state. She was in California, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Are you anti-California? I lived there for 25 years; [ __ ] they [ __ ] ruined the greatest resources this country has; [ __ ] ruined it. So you—14 14.4% state income tax, right? Okay, they're going to have a $2 gas tax by by 2030; that means if gasoline is four bucks here, it's going to be six bucks there; it's [ __ ]; it's insanity. How—most expensive housing in the country; five of the uh eight most expensive cities in the country are in California. Why? They have the most housing because they keep—they regulate everything; they housing controls, uh eviction moratoriums, uh you can't raise rents. If you can't raise rents, the property values are going to explode. Rent is what actually keeps the property values down because it creates a competitive market. Yeah, because if—Yeah, and because I can—it it creates a competitive market to rent is what I mean, and then they fund all these programs. Have you been to San Diego lately? Oh, uh, yes, I have. Yeah, dude, that's the most beautiful city in the United States, up until about 5 years ago. They ruined it because they they they let all the homeless shelters in into downtown, by by the baseball park; guys are building 10 and 20 billion, putting 10 and 20 billion dollars worth of investments, and then they—somebody said, "Let homeless live down there"—they just like overnight turned into [ __ ]. What would you do with the homeless, man? That's a complicated one right there. I tell you what, I I'd worry about them though before I'd worry about Ukraine. You know, that's 250 billion that would have solved some problems. So what do you do with Russia going in there? Well, I personally—Yeah, I mean, nobody's going to like what I'm going to say; I'm here for your take; I'm here not for you to please people. Um, I'd be like, "Let him work it out, dude. If if I if I was—I mean, I wouldn't take on Putin; he doesn't want that; he doesn't want real real estate; he wants his front yard; he wants his front door; his front wall protected. I think Joe Biden gave him permission to go in there." Oh, you do? 100%. Really? How—how could he make a move without the approval of the the sitting president? With by doing it without the approval of the sitting president, he went—sat there for 3 weeks; he sat on that border for 3 weeks and then moved. There's no way. But they were telling him not to—politics; they were telling him not to. That's what they were telling us; they were saying to him—yes; that's what they were saying to us; they were saying to him, and then he went in. Yeah, and then we don't—you know, when I was a single man, women would say, you know, "I'm not I'm not sleeping with you; I'm not sleeping to you; I'm not sleeping with you." I'm like, "Oh, yeah, for sure, you're sleeping with you."
Said it too many times now, like, like you know what I’m saying. Quite the charmer. No, I’m just saying, like, like, but why did we give Ukraine all these weapons then, if we wanted Russia to go in there? If we told them they should go in, you know? Here we look good; we haven’t given them what they need to stop a war, to be, to be an equal. And then Black Rockck and Blackstone and Vanguard have already got their deal, deal over there. That deal’s done; that deal was inked. So they’re going to rebuild it; there’s going to be a victor. This has happened five or six or seven times in your life, so you believe that the forever wars is a real, a real thing in America, that people want to see him stop, get us out of that.
I think, I think Americans, as a majority right now, are like, “I don’t want to go any, I don’t want to do any more of this.” Do you believe I want to, I want to, I want to invest that money here in America? Like the argument I have: I’m a generous person; I don’t mind paying taxes, but I’m not getting anything back. Like, show me what I got. I don’t mind helping anyone, right? Show me what I got. You can’t. Nobody can show me what I’m getting. And if I, if you can’t show me a receipt that that me paying federal taxes funds Ukraine, and that somehow made my family better, my community better, my customers better, my investors better, my real estate better, my future better, I, I just don’t get it. I couldn’t find Ukraine on the map before this happened.
I mean, look, I think the president is a lot the same way, not just the map part, that that he does not believe. I remember him talking about the Iraq war. I remember him, look, he may have vasated, right, oh, long, long, long before, but he may have escalated a little bit, but he was definitely outspoken about saying, “We’re not going to get the oil.” Like, why are we going there? Now there’s a whole other theory of it, but you got to meet the people where they are, and it does seem from this past election that people want it rethought. This audience is a bunch of critical thinkers. Mhm. Independent breaks. Center. There’s going to be a lot of hate here. Breaks. No, no breaks. Pretty open-minded. I have a lot of different people sit where you are. Okay. Um, uh, breaks. I would say, uh, center-left, but I have a lot more center-right that have been enthusiastic about what I’m doing, and center-left and on are very suspicious of what I’m doing.
Yeah, so what would you say to this audience? Well, I would say, first of all, you’re what you’re doing to me now, Chris, is like much more welcoming, uh, definitely more makes me think more than the show you were doing. But you just didn’t like CNN? No, I mean, no, I, I grew up on CNN. I, I grew up, I was during the Trump administration. You didn’t like CNN? I don’t like the talent on CNN. You know, I liked you on there, but most of, most of those people are not [ __ ] very talented. Talented meaning, I don’t like Fox either. I, I’ll just tell you, I hate all this [ __ ]. Like, there is no show, like, show me, like, even during the day, CNBC’s got their little money show, but they’re not teaching anybody anything; there’s no aspiration there, just it’s that, that percentage of the population at night, everybody’s just getting hit with, “They’re wrong, they’re wrong.” Like, but you’re what you’re doing right now is neither one; it is an intellectual conversation, a consideration of, like, can I, can I even work my critical thinking muscle? What if we just did not collect $2 trillion in federal taxes? Well, you can’t do that; that’s the first thing everybody says. Well, why not, dude? What if we just cut, took three months and didn’t collect a penny? I know the country is not going to stop. Like, why don’t we have some exercises? Go back to exercising possibility. That’s why I love your show. So that’s what I would tell them. Guys, just ask, you know, you know, ask questions. And definitely number two, don’t make people wrong without checking out their track record. Like, we should measure information based on who’s given them the, the, the, the message.
So Grant writes a letter to Trump in July, okay, and he says, “I can be ready to roll out, ‘Make America Wealthy Again.’ The goal would be to build the strongest, most financially independent middle class on the planet. I would donate my time and educational resources to assist your administration in creating millions of new millionaires across the country.” Uh, and the itemized part of it is, uh, a scale of three phases: one, public awareness, uh, the conversation we were having earlier about how you think you’re supposed to do it versus how you could. Okay. Um, the second is, Trump would sell it; Trump would bring the public awareness. Right, George Bush tried to do it; he was just a terrible pitchman, right? Well, Trump could certainly pitch. Yeah. Uh, the curriculum, which is the how-to, what do you have to do. And the third is the delivery. What’s the delivery? We didn’t have it in 2002; we had TV channels only. Now you have Facebook, Instagram, Google, TikTok. You force, you mandate it; it would be a regulation. You mandate to these handful of companies, “Hey, it’s going to be first, it’s going to sit at the top; it’s going to be free. Netflix, Prime, all of you guys, you’re going to deliver this to the middle class. Everybody’s going to have a chance to click it and watch it. We don’t need TV networks; doesn’t need to cost the taxpayers money. Boom, you just use the vehicles that we already have in place.” My phone, so I can deliver to kids, I can deliver 12-year-olds, 32-year-olds, 62-year-olds. I mean, I don’t know why you couldn’t use it. The networks, you got an easier reach; they got the FCC; those are our airwaves, yeah, that they’re using for their signals. You know, you have a different audience; it’s an older audience.
Um, look, I think it’s a great idea. I, I think anything that empowers people and gives them a chance to recognize opportunity is a win. Yeah. Um, when, when people define the American dream, I always believe it’s the ability to succeed or fail on your own merits. I think one of the mistakes in our development, and it comes from a good place, I believe, which is we want to try to keep people from failing, and I think there’s, there’s something loving about that, um, but there’s also tough love, and there’s also, well, who’s help, who, who are you using to help those people, and is that fair, and what’s the balance of equities? And I think that’s a conversation that nobody likes having, because if you say, “Well, you got to be more tough love,” well, now you sound harsh; now you want people to lose, then, right? You want, you want bad things happen? No, I don’t want bad things. Well, but they are going to happen your way. Well, they’re going to happen anyway. And it’s just going to happen to more people over more time, because to hold up some, you’re going to wind up dragging down all at some point. That’s why a lot of schools like teaching to the top, and then students find their place within that; you have different tracks of curriculum as a result, and you have different realities of, one guy’s going to work in the tool, toll booth, yep, and he’s going to do what he’s going to do, and the other guy’s going to build the toll booth. Mhm. You know, two different guys, and there’s just different levels of aspiration. You would build the toll booth, and I would be in it. I don’t think so, but that’s how we work together. Grant Cardone, thank you. I appreciate the conversation; I look forward to continuing. Thank you for the kabuchi, the kombucha, kombucha. [Music] He’s smart, he’s successful, and he’s good-looking. Grant Cardone. Sure, there’s controversy, but that’s what happens when you try to do things differently and you try to say what you want, especially in a very unforgiving media environment. I hope you learned something from him. If you want more information, he’s easy to find. And if you have comments or thoughts about what Grant Cardone thinks about what we should be doing, you and I, and what government should be doing, and what Trump will be doing, let me know, and let’s get after it. Thank you for subscribing and following. I’ll see you on NewsNation, 8:00 PM Eastern, every weekday night. You like the podcast; you don’t like the ads. I love my advertisers, but I get it. Go to the Substack and subscribe. Following does not get you the content; subscribing does. It’s only five bucks a month. You get the podcast ad-free; you get it first; you get exclusive content and interviews; and you’re going to get my walk and talk series, which is everything that I have learned about leading your best life, even if they don’t work well for me, because I don’t do them the right way, but you can, and you’ll get all the longevity and longcoid information from my longco doctor, and we use that money to help people pay for treatment when they can’t, for long co. All right, let’s get after it. [Music]