How To Spot BS In The Green Tree Python Game | All In The Tree Tuesday (LIVE)

If you're looking for exclusive content, please don't look any further than joining the Trap Talk Patreon family. Some of the best reptile keepers in this industry are part of the Trap Talk Patreon family. As soon as you join the Patreon family, you connect to a Discord. You can also tap into an Instagram group chat, connect with some of the most diverse keepers we have in the reptile hobby today. Shout out to my Patreon members and be ready for Trapfest 2026. It's going to be one of the biggest events yet. Find all information again in the very first link in description below. And again, thank you so much to all my fellow Patreon members out there.

Shout out to US Arc and all the US Arc members. If you don't know what US Arc is, do not be ashamed. Simply click on the third link in the description below. Go to usarchc.org. See what it's all about. See how you could actually protect your own collection whenever a legislation might hit your backyard. You just never know. Things are changing constantly in the reptile hobby. And it's good to know when things are creeping up in your area. So, shout out to Phil Goss, shout to Vanessa, shout to Jeremy, shout to all the US Arc supporters and teammates out there. Cannot wait to see how much we fight this year to keep our animal rights. And if you're not a US Arc member, talk to your fellow keepers and just let them know what US Arc's all about. and they're here to protect our animal rights. Shout out to US Arc and all the US Arc supporters.

>> T-minus 30 seconds. [music] [music] >> T-minus 20 seconds. [music] >> [music] >> 10 9 8 7 >> 6 5 4 3 2 1 You're out. Trap Talk Reptile Network, coolest reptile network in the world, episode 724. This is the very first on the tree Tuesday of 2026 and we are starting it in a banging type energy way. John Herby, the return mid-Atlantic on this beautiful Tuesday evening. But if it's your first time watching, what is good? Smash that like button. Hit that subscribe button. Hit that notification bell. You'll be reminded every podcast released out of the network seven days a week. THE BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN. The boys are back in town.

>> What's up, fellas? >> What's up? >> Happy 2026, boys. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I feel like it's since we've done a podcast. [laughter] I feel like we've been off for a minute now. >> It's been three weeks. >> Maybe it feels longer. I don't know, man. But hey, here we are. We're shaking it. What's going on, Bill? Catch us up, man. How you been? How's the new year for you so far?

>> Uh, good. Been busy, but good. Been traveling a little bit. Just got back from a wedding last weekend to kind of cap off uh >> cap off the the new year. That was great. My niece got married. Um, so 2026 has started off great.

>> Yeah, I was going to say, who' you what wedding? Okay, first and foremost, one thing that stood out in my head watching those looking at those photos, Bill, I was like, damn. Like I almost want to marry Lily again just to invite you to my wedding. Like just to have you at a wedding because it looks like every wedding you attend, Bill, you're like the life of the party. It seems like am I is that is that pretty accurate?

>> I wouldn't say I was the life of the party. The these are like kids that are just right out of college, you know? So I'm just uh trying to stand back and stay out of the way. [laughter]

>> Yeah, it seems like you had a good time though. >> Yeah, for sure, dude. Um, how are Let's see. Last time we spoke, you just had your last clutch, right? Is that is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty pretty not not too long. Feeding trials are going great. Um had the manicory flu clutch of 13. All those babies are eating great.

>> Um and then I've got the um freight train decoy clutch. Uh 16 of those are eating. I've got one that's uh eating pink heads off the tongs. I posted a picture today of of that little guy. And then I've got three that are being assist fed. So not too bad. 23 assist feeding out of 20. I'll take it all day long.

>> And And you also have eggs in the incubator still? No. Right. Don't you have eggs?

>> I don't. Alex, small clutch in the incubator. But no, I I don't I won't have any eggs for quite some time now.

>> Okay. [ __ ] I was going to say finally. [ __ ] [laughter]

>> Yeah. I'm ready for a little breather. I I went out today and spent three three and a half hours just feeding. Um, so, you know, you know how that goes.

>> Yeah, man. Uh definitely do. Marshall, how you living, buddy? Good to see you. What's what's what's shaking over in your end,

>> man? Not too much. Just uh got a got a small clutch right um >> right there at the end end of the year last year. Uh I think it was like a day or two after Christmas.

>> Yeah.

>> Um not great, you know, not great results. She laid I think it was 16 total. Um 11 of them or thereabouts were obviously, you know, they were they were clear slugs. And then none of the one none of the ones that were shelled um had great veins. And there were six. I threw three out a few weeks ago or about a week ago and I think I'm going to throw two more out tonight. So I've got three eggs left.

>> Damn.

>> Yeah. We'll see. [snorts]

>> Yep.

>> Many times before, three is better than none.

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> Better than two. Three is better than one. And three is better than none.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'll be happy with one because honestly none of the none of them are showing great, you know, great when you candle them. Um, and I didn't see very many. I don't think I recorded any populations with the pair. I mean, they were together and they were, you know, snuggled up for a couple weeks, but I never actually saw a population. So, it's not a total surprise. Um, you know,

>> we'll have to get uh we'll have to get Mr. Herby's input and some theories about why we get clutches like that. You know, why do we have clutches that are primarily slugs, poorly vain, don't incubate well, you know, what what are some theories by why that why that happens?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I just don't know if there wasn't enough, you know, wasn't enough action going on, but you know, as we all know, it just takes once. So, I don't think that's the always the answer, you know.

>> No, for sure. Lot lots of different reasons. I certainly think a young male can contribute to that.

>> You know, I had a clutch last year, six eggs, um, you know, just from a two and a half year old first time breeder male and

>> yeah,

>> I think that can certainly contribute to that. But Marshall, I think you're right. I think there's a various host of factors that can come into play with that.

>> And Marshall, real quick, just I've talked to Mark Bailey about this before, like like why would I get these type of results? And like he would almost he would almost want to pinpoint to the time of year. um like you know yeah people have success normally that time of year but sometimes females don't do good on certain time of the year when it comes to laying clutches versus like in the winter earlier part um

>> yeah anecdotal really how how the hell do we really know? Yeah, I mean, if you'll remember last year at this time that I had two and you know at the time they were they the clutches look great. Um, they were all you know, they were all fertile and this was a first time female and I'd been trying to pair her since I don't know since uh towards the end of the summer and uh soon as soon as I put the male in there with her the first time she went off feed turned blue. Um, so she was she was showing all the signs, but you know, who knows, man.

>> Yeah. Who [ __ ] knows? And you know what? Why don't we end this whole like >> let's let's let's end this whole like uh how's everyone doing type topic to like what happened to me and my Aruak right here. I mean, hey, she's alive.

>> Oh yeah,

>> right dude. First and foremost, I'm like talking to Bill maybe every day after day 47 like, "Hey, Bill, you know, like what do you think?" And here we are. I think I got to day 53, I believe, which I can't remember. And then I'm I'm I'm like, she looks like she's like still beehived, but there's she's not on on anything. So, I'm checking. I'm like, she hasn't laid yet. She hasn't laid yet. And this is probably about 5 days after Christmas is when I'm checking on her, and I think I talked to you the day before before, Bill, about soaking her. Um, and I was like, dude, she looks so ready. I think I'm going to give it one more day. Remember I told you that I was like, she just looks like she's so tight and ready, so I'm gonna leave it. Then the next day comes, no eggs. I'm like, "Fuck it. I'm going to have to soak her." I pull her out. I look under and I just see a [ __ ] ton of little ugly [ __ ] slugs, dude. Um that are basically smooshed at this point. So, I'm thinking this [ __ ] heer's been sitting on these things for a minute now. You know what I mean? Like, these probably came out a long time ago and I just didn't see them because it they weren't a lot. There was 11 of them. Um and they were like the little puny yellow ones. Like, they weren't they weren't big. It was really just a bad overall like typical [ __ ] you know, slugged out clutch. Um,

>> did you see many locks with this with this pairing?

>> Oh, yeah, dude. She got blasted for sure. She was she got she got hella locks, but again, she's old, dude. Uh,

>> she's old.

>> She's an old girl. Was only been in my care for about a year. Um, I had no expectations really with this girl. It was just cool to see an ovulation and, you know, but for me, this time of year never works out, dude. This is my third time in a row a clutch just didn't work out for me in the fall winter. Um, so again, I don't know what that could lead to. I I can't remember. Did Did she have a nice ovulation? Did you witness big swelling?

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was big. It was big. That's why I kind of felt good because I was like, "Huh, that's a that's you know, I like to see that." You know, it was a good size ovulation. She blew up. Yeah.

>> Um actually, to be honest, I posted a video. It wasn't as big. Like, we we all know these these ovulations have levels to them. Like, there's some ones where it's like they swallowed a [ __ ] house. Um then there's ones that are pretty subtle. I would say she was pretty much in the middle. But for her being a big big snake, she probably

>> probably could have had a bigger ovulation. But then again, I've had I've had this happen before where I've had huge ovulations and slugged out clutches. Um, and dude, my time of year around that fall is that's where my room is the hottest. But again, even though there's no panels, so there's really nothing I guess that could lead to like h having it too hot in my room. Or maybe it could be, but my room doesn't get more than 85, you know what I mean? Uh, during the summer, hottest time of the day. So, I don't know, dude. Either way, just chalk it up to who knows.

>> Yeah, I think I think that's an age issue. I mean, you know,

>> it's easy to

>> you know what her what her breeding history is if she has she had clutches before.

>> Yeah. So, he's So, Chad sent me two girls, her sister, and apparently all both of their clutches have never been fertile. Um, and I don't know how accurate that is. I've seen pictures of really nice looking eggs. They just go to [ __ ] like weeks or so after they're incubating. And so,

>> what's the what's the lineage of the snake? uh Aru Bak um from Bushmaster, he told me 2017. I'm like, "No, dude. These are like 2007. [laughter] The way that you know how the color changes on a mature female like you know these girls were not no way 2017. Not even there's no way in hell." And so he also told me they're red Neos. And I'm like scratching my head. I'm like, "Dude, these eyes are silver as shit." Like I never seen a red neo with silver eyes before. on it. And it's an Aru Bak, so it could be a red neo. But I don't know, man. Another reason why I was like looking forward to getting eggs to see if they could go the distance to see what she would what she would produce. If I saw a bunch of yellows, there's there's my answer. But, you know, I don't know. Time will tell. I'm going to give her a good year off if she lives [laughter] and just [ __ ] just feed her good. She's a big snake, dude. So, I don't know. We'll see. Day by day. Um,

>> is she back? Is she back recovered on food and all that?

>> She The thing is, she doesn't look like she even laid. She's [ __ ] still big. She's eating and that's the best thing I guess I could ask for, right? You know, it's could have been way worse, but

>> yeah. Well, now you get to take care of her for another year, feed her, house her, you know, pay for her all of her upkeep and then see what happens.

>> Optimistic, bro.

>> That's kind of what it goes down to, man. But listen, the return of John Herby, u I'm so excited to have John back on. Uh he's obviously been doing some big things since he's on been on. He just had a a basin ovulation. Uh which you know we always have John on the show talking always talking conjur because that's what he's known for. But finally he got that ovulation from a basin. So um and then he also sent me other stuff that he has cooking and uh yeah we have quite to talk about tonight gentlemen. I hope you guys are excited.

>> Yeah. Can't wait. Can't wait.

>> You guys ready or what?

>> Yeah. Let's bring it.

>> All right, man. Shout out to everyone in the chats. Uh smash that like button. DO WHAT YOU GOT TO DO TO get your mind right and do what you got to do to stay hydrated because this is episode 724. THE RETURN JOHN HERBY Midatlantic Boreal coming at you right now. Let's go.

>> Good.

>> You ready for do more in the future? Trap Talk podcasters.

>> Yes.

>> Only only Trap Talk exclusive.

>> Exclusive only. So stop calling us [laughter] or not. I'm hot from the hop to the [music] spot. Get the club when I come up the spot. [music] Get the club when I come up the spot. Get the club when I come up the spot. Get the [music] club when I come up. Everybody, we do it. Everybody, we do it. [music] [music] Do it. Do it. [music] Do it spot. Get [music] the club when I come up with the club spot. Get the club [music] when I come up with spot. Get the club when I come up. Get the club when I come up. And we are live episode 724. John, welcome back buddy.

>> Hey man, how y'all doing?

>> Hey John.

>> Dude, so cool. You don't even need to do soundcheck. That's John Irby for you. Like I don't know.

>> I don't know what you and Marshall man. [ __ ] Dude,

>> we've established this connection before. So [laughter]

>> John's the antiarshall.

>> The anti.

>> Antiar. What? What do you mean? Well, technical difficulties. Yes, you're right.

>> You come on every every week and your sound check is [ __ ] [snorts] [laughter]

>> And John comes on. John comes on just nonchalantly, you know, once a year. And [laughter]

>> I mean, it was a coin toss, too. I was like, go with the cell phone or we're gonna try the laptop. And so, I'm on the laptop.

>> Laptop. No. No earbuds or earbuds?

>> No earbuds.

>> [ __ ] yeah, dude. Raw dog. That's what I'm talking about. [ __ ] those earbuds, bro. Um, hey no, John. Seriously, good to have you back, dude. Um, you know, we've been talking briefly. Uh, lots to talk about tonight. Um, I don't know where you want to start really, but I gotta say it's cool that we are going to be talking about you having an EV, uh, Emerald Triboa ovulation world, man.

>> That's so new. That's so new for you to talk about. So, why don't we talk about like uh what went into that? You know what I mean?

>> Yeah, sure, man. Um, [clears throat] so I got a pair of basins. It's a one pair. Um, which is I don't advise that. And I've really learned along the way.

>> Yeah.

>> That, um, you know, it might sound crazy to buy like four of something or things like that. Um, and for someone that's starting out, they might be like, damn, that's nuts. But that's actually a much more sure way toward success. And even mild success or a small success could certainly recoup all that you would have in like four or five animals, right?

>> But anyway, I I don't want people to believe that this is like the norm to buy a single pair. Man, basins, you just got to raise them for so long, you know? And so anyway, but I got a single pair, kept them glued together and got them to breed. My male actually, you know what I mean? like think about it if my male had turned out to be a crappy breeder, but this male is a rockar, man. And he got in there and got it done finally for me.

>> Where'd you get the John?

>> Uh Ed Marino.

>> Yeah, looks looks very much very Edlike.

>> They're really cool. The male is um is real snowflaky in like in his in his appearance. Um, but he's a sibling to Ed's male that he calls Alien. He's had a bunch since then. I don't know what he calls him, like Alien 2 and whatever, but his original alien. He's proved out the pattern uh the alien pattern. But anyway, there's an OG alien. And this one is a is a sibling to that. The male is. And then he also like the year before had a litter and it had this one animal in it called Christmas. And that was Ed's like at least at that point the highest white

>> female that he'd ever produced. And my female's a sibling to that. So I joke around and say that like these will be kind of poor man alien Christmas babies because you know of course Ed's going to make alien Christmas babies. You know what I'm saying? And

>> and so these are these are kind of like knockoffs.

>> Yeah, we talked about it, John. It's like, dude, okay. I mean, the the reason why they're knockoffs is because you think about the generations behind this type of project that Ed's been working on. And so, like, you can't speed up this game. It's like you said, like you legit have to wait and raise them. And the less the less you have to raise, the less chance you have of making anything [ __ ] remotely sick. And here, I don't want I don't want to be a damper, Marshall. Correct me if I'm wrong if you've heard this before, but but the but the odds of hitting like let's say you had a really ridiculous pair of basins, right? Like let's say you had like a Christmas looking snake and that alien snake like they're all not all going to look they're all not all going to come out bingers. Like they're all not going to come out like Christmas looking like some will. There there's like I think what's the I think didn't Rico say the ratio it wasn't it like or it would have been Ed Marino he said 10% will be [ __ ] knockouts 20% will be like better than the parents then the other 20% would be like exactly like the parents and the other 10% or something my numbers probably off like going to be like

>> takes a second for them to kind of color up and really show

>> yeah for sure

>> that white there's a rev up they rev up the white a little bit at the beginning so a lot of people are like well what are you gonna do with them if you're lucky and I was like I want to just

>> keep them

>> soak on them for a while, man. And really

>> try to sort out a one of those a couple of like really outstanding animals, you know? I'm hoping that I get an animal as nice or like a maybe an upgrade beyond my stuff, you know? Maybe I can hit that just genetic magic and get a freak out of the deal. That's

>> basically they're like designer condos if

>> you know how how these things are going to end up looking as adults. Yeah,

>> I would say a little more predictable maybe than

>> mainly because Bill you could Okay, so I saw pictures of somebody who had some Christmas bloodline pro stuff. John Wing, shout out to John Wing, but he showed pictures of babies that you could tell it had that snowflake patterning that goes all the way up to and Jed always told me the closest white you could get to the head the better. And so, you know, like Marshall just said, emeralds after a while after geeking out and also having your litters, you could kind of tell which Neos you're not going to let go of for sure versus like the ones where that will surprise you cuz some like the because no matter what the um the the white does get bolder on the snake regardless, right? But there's levels to the bolding. Some bold Thanks, babe. Some baldings get like Hey, be careful, right, Bill? Don't spill. [laughter]

>> Whoa, that's a big coffee, MJ. Be careful. No, but like you know, for instance, like you could kind of tell though, right, Marshall? Like you've seen patterning on an emerald that looked pretty promising straight out of the snake, right? That kind of turned out to be what the way the way you thought it would be. [clears throat]

>> Yeah. The few clutches that I've had, I've I've when I give them their ID numbers, I number them from, you know, one to whatever the clutch was, uh, and, you know, one being the one I think is the least attractive and, you know, 10 or 12 being the one that that I think is the best. And both clutches I've had the the the number the the best animal I I was able to pick it. But down in like the mid middle of the pack, I've had a few that switch places or you know number four really should have been number seven. Um so John, you do that with condro right too when you're like

>> Yeah, we talking we're talking condro babies. Yeah, for sure. Um, I definitely have had some, um, not so much in like the super freak type pairings, but I've had some pairings where I was pairing kind of um, middle of the road, like nice, but not those freak blues. And like my blue deuce little Stevie to Sophie clutch for example. Um, they came out really looking kind of like um a range of like Wina babies, you know what I mean? Because they're just they just weren't like that 10 generations of compounded designer blood. So there weren't any like super freak black ones in there. So you know I picked out a couple and they sure they came out nice, but there was some lower like basic last pick was super freak super sweet. Like [laughter] the very last pick turned out to be one of the blowst ones in the clutch and I was like man

>> I love I love to hear that.

>> Yeah. The guy is nice and he pictures of it and you know it's cool.

>> Say it again. Marshall.

>> How how how old was the pair >> or how old is the pair?

>> Old enough to party for sure.

>> How old the basins?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Um the girl is a 20 and the female's a 2019.

>> Oh wow. So they're up there.

>> Perfect. And we shot them last year. So my female, if you look there, she's got some kinks in her tail.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's not a great photo of it, but there's a kink like right at the vent. And and because of that, it's almost like it's a little inverted right there. And um if I get her really really heavily packed full of food and she gets kind of full tailed right there, it it's quite the step, you know what I mean?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And my male, and I joke around. So the female I call her uh and I'm like, you know, getting known for my crazy ass names, but I call her Miss Uzi Butt [laughter] [snorts] because she is all, you know what I'm saying? Like if you keep her packed full of food, she's just kind of always about ready to pop down there.

>> Anyway, then my male, he the first year he tried to breed her and he I mean, like I said, he's a champ, dude. He's in there just going and going and trying and trying. And then one morning I found him in one of his hemipines was prolapsed and like

>> you know and had gotten swollen and and the valve or the the trap door had shut and he was having a hard time getting it back in

>> and I was like oh [ __ ] So luckily I'm like two and some change hours from uh Scott Stall's office in like the Northern Virginia area

>> and I called them and I rolled up there and I tried my best to get it back in but you know I mean it's like purple and fleshy and all I'm like oh my god my high-end basin and this is like what Ed told me. head was like, "You're rolling the dice. Only getting one mail." But anyway, [laughter] so anyway, they got it back in and uh and it was it was uh I guess borderline and not like it hadn't gone necrotic or whatever. It's kind of like you had something on your finger and it's purple, but we got to it in time. We got to it in time.

>> So anyway, I joke around and call him Scarcock.

>> Scarock.

>> Yeah. I was gonna say it sounds like uh Chuck's daughter is naming your your emeralds. [laughter]

>> Chuck who?

>> Chuck uh Chuck Amicone. He's got some crazy like you know

>> he lets his daughter's name is Condro.

>> Okay.

>> Daughter's name is Condro. So there's some pretty unique names.

>> So wait.

>> The pairing was Scarcock and or wait butt

>> and Uzi butt. Damn, bro. Yeah, we might call her Miss or Miss Uzi ass or whatever you want to call her.

>> But also, okay, which also is very interesting is because of

>> then I had to strategize around that. There's still a lot of learning there that can be had. Yeah.

>> You know, I had to really strategize to get this female bred this year.

>> I was going to say because you don't feed her heavy. You don't feed her like typical emerald breeders feed because they can handle it. We all know that. And you know, like I said, the I feel like the only reason why I got success is because you know, Warren Booth and Keith McPe's advice as far as when to hit them with hard food like is the trick. But in this case, you just fed her like not minimal, but like small I had to feed her and and whatever. Dude, it's been quite the challenge. like so she's this girl gets a lot of time in the shower and like you know lots of coaxing her to just keep that tail cleaned out as much as she possibly can. So for one I got to really manage her like that. Um, and in like dude, there's been times where, um, there's this stuff called micro pore tape, and I've actually like bound her tail and given her some support. Um, you know, it's like,

>> you know, there's like a valve or like a like a sphincter at the at her at her cloica or whatever. And so when that would get a lot of pressure on it and emeralds take really big defecations, it would just kind of like I don't mean to be graphic, but just kind of blow her out a little bit. And so I would give her time in the shower and get her all cleaned out and then basically almost like an ace bandage support her tail and all of that really really helped. And then there was a period in there where I fasted her

>> and um

>> leading up to the breeding season and all of this helped all that muscle like do a lot of miraculous healing and get into a better place. And my plan was I was like, man, I'm going to clean her completely out all the way. And then while her tail is nice and slender, I'm going to put the male in and let him get some successful culations because then the sperm is inside her. And I just know from condro breeding and other snake breeding that snakes can get bred and that a whole lot of the activity can happen months later, but the sperm was in there, right? And so I and I did that and I got her I got some locks on her and then I would I would feed her again, you know what I mean? And kind of like

>> Yeah. feed her and then real maybe like not push it, but so much and get the defecation and I just danced it a little bit right there but it was letting her get completely cleaned out that I got the locks with her and then um I just was able to and in fact got so such an improvement in her condition of her tail that then the male really just I I just got a nice breeding season out of her because of that.

>> He br her a bunch and she swelled up like normal and You think there's a risk when she is getting ready to deliver her babies because of that tail kink or not?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, probably. I mean, there's I guess now luckily I don't think you know she doesn't I don't know. I mean, Marshall maybe has seen a lot more basins and I think if the little b like the sacks with the eggs in them, if they rupture and they were to come out as neonates, I think they're going to be fine. I don't I don't know if they you know like when a when a condro lays an egg Marshall there's a lot of stretching that's going on. I don't know if it's like that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to tell from from that last picture how bad the kink So the kink is above the vent like towards the towards the head.

>> It's just kind of like right on it.

>> Yeah. I mean, you know, it's hard to say. I would think that it would be harder to pass an egg than a than a live baby. Um, so, so who knows? But I was going to say I have lost a female to the, uh, uzy butt condition that you're talking about. Um, what ended up happening with with my female was that beautiful snake, too. Never got a chance to breed her. She was just coming to breeding age, but her cloa would always be I mean it was almost like it was puffy or um it was almost like a tiny not going to say a prolapse but like just the you could always see that you know the the flesh color just a little bit.

>> And um towards the end before it got real bad she would be like you could just tell that she was constantly leaking all over the all over the cage. you know, like if after after a meal, there'd always be little, you know, drops coming out or or whatever. And uh what ended up happening is that little end piece ended up you know going necrotic and then it spread and then all of a sudden like you know I ended up just putting her down because

>> I mean she was at that point there was no you know it was like the whole the whole end of the cloa where the sphincter is like you're talking about that had all pretty much like you know

>> dried up and rotted necrosis and rotted away. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I've been really having to I've been think and that's why I've done things like put that tape on there just to just to close it

>> and give it

>> like I would get the defecation and be like all right well we all know emeralds don't need to do much for a while now and I would just give her like a week or two with that just some support you know what I mean and

>> um anyway because the I just was like man all right it's it's exactly like you were describing especially if I were to start really putting the meals to her she would just get real leaky And I was like, man, if I don't manage this, she's going to get an infection in there. And so I really just, you know, I know it's a rolling of the dice, but you know, she's a special case. And so,

>> yeah.

>> And and she's been smaller than she's smaller than most people would keep an emerald. And and probably needed that extra trip around the sun just to gradually get that weight on her. And this litter, if she has it, will probably zap her down hard. And it would probably take a really long time to get her back to weight. I won't be able to just go to hitting it to her. That's for sure.

>> Yeah.

>> It'll probably she probably need like three She's a snake that a patient keeper probably can get it done.

>> Well, yeah.

>> But if you were to get heavy on her, you could kill her in a year or I could wait three years after this litter and maybe sneak another one out of her. She's kind of one of them snakes.

>> Yeah. you wonder what causes it because I've found with, you know, now I'm raising I think I've got four females from my 2021 litter that I've been raising up and, you know, I used to get more infrequent u uh defecations out of them because I was always er on the small side, but what I found is that man, I give them like small to medium rats now every every two weeks and they pretty much poop almost between every meal. So

>> your basis

>> Yeah. So, I don't know if it's like a uh I don't know if it's like a food related thing, like you know, like who knows why that happens, but it's happened sounds like it's happened once to me and and and once to you with this snake, too.

>> I'm hopeful I get a litter just simply so I can have a little larger sample size to raise. I just like to screw around with five or six of them, you know?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And also what's going to be what's going to be interesting is like you know not only the recovery of this snake if she can go the distance. Um cuz remember I told you uh >> John like see if she's hungry and like in after a good month or so after ovulation like it the snake like this if she will eat would probably be wise to get us a meal in this this snake if she was willing to take it because not all of them will take. Marshall I can't remember if a snake ate after ovulation for you not an emerald. Did were you one of the ones who said that they ate or they've never eaten for you? I've never had an emerald eat. Amazon do it all the time, but uh emeralds I don't recall ever having one do it.

>> I know Ed has. I know Ed has said he has, but it says not all of them, but if they can, it doesn't hurt to. And then also Coach Rice with the Northerns has had his females eat. Um but again, like you know, I'm curious how the babies are going to look like. I mean, yeah, it's like man, there's a lot of wild cards in this uh in this factor for you right now. Um, John

>> if she doesn't eat anything. I've been thinking I'm like this is going to be the best thing ever for her tail though,

>> you know, like once she finally defecates and she gets to go whatever it is like five months without a meal.

>> Are you sure?

>> She skeleton, but she may get like a not she may get a lot of progress as far as getting that tail to heal up some.

>> Are you one to document their shits and stuff, their sheds? Are you do do you document all that?

>> For sure. I don't document anything's defecation and she's the only one I do just because of all of this.

>> I just try to keep up with how many meals are in her and if she's pooped in a while.

>> Emeralds would do that, dude. You You literally have a sn a room full of snakes and the only ones that you're really counting the shits on are the emeralds. I swear to God.

>> Yeah, they they can really hold out, dude. It's crazy.

>> Yeah, man. Um All right. Well, listen, let's kind of, you know, shift things here to the condos, man. Uh because at this time of year, where are things at? you know, typically I know we got some pictures to share, but why don't you catch us up where things are currently at for Mid-Atlantic in in end of Jan or mid January.

>> Yeah, I've got a couple clutches in the incubator. I've got um another on the way. I've got a bunch of stuff I'm still that has been bred. You know, you kind of get to this place where things have they've locked up and but the activity has slowed and but that um but there you know one's a male has locked one that's like that's it, you know, and um and I've had plenty of those rev up and get going. And so um I've got some that are kind of just waiting to see what what comes from them. But we can I think I shared most most everything I got going on with you. So yeah, this is this is a set of nine eggs. This is unfortunate. The female when I was listening to you earlier during the um the intro period or whatever you were talking about day 47. What was that about?

>> Um that was the day after ovulation. So, um, yeah. So, I was counting the that was that yeah, that was the day I was counting alvulation because all my snakes usually lay about day 42 to 47 84 48.

>> I've never got never gone to the 50s. Um, and then I got well mid into the 50s, but it turns out she probably laid on day 50 or 49, but

>> Sure. Yeah. So, like I'm a big believer in tracking things based on the ovulation day. That's one thing I'll say about the basin community is they still they talk a lot about post ovulation shed.

>> Yeah.

>> But um but anyway, that's cool to hear you talking about that and and I'll share that I my stuff really really is consistent and they lay a lot of times on basically day 48 to like day 50

>> really consistently. And I really consistently get day 30 sheds from post ovulation. But the shed, if anything is going to be variable, it would be the shed. You know, like what I try to tell people is the ovulation is where egg and sperm meet. That's the moment of conception, right? That's when the timer starts. The shed is just something that they'd like to get done at some point along the way. But it doesn't communicate or do anything to the egg. It's just skin on the outside of the snake's body where the sperm and the egg meet. That's when the timer starts. And then the timer is sped up or slowed down based on temperatures and like the conditions. That's one thing that's interesting about a cold-blooded animal is it's not regulating its own temperatures other than by moving around. And so you have a lot of control there. And so that's why you can really if you get your temperatures dialed in, you can like every time nail these these dates. And I I really do. Um but this clutch right here in front of you, I did not. And I looked around. I was like, "Oh shit." And I hadn't lifted her night drop and this girl laid on about like day 55.

>> Oh wow.

>> Which was like crazy. And then what's in what's really sucked about it was I was timing it based on my other [ __ ] and um and I looked I just spaced on it and didn't adjust her thermostat like I normally do. And um and at that point, you know, I had locked her in the in the egg box and and now I'm off and I don't know. I'm like, well, I don't know when she's going to lay. like I don't really, you know, and so then I'm like, well, I can't like put her back in the in her enclosure and then try to like rettime it. And so I'm like I ended up just having to like keep her in the egg box for a lot longer than I I would have liked to.

>> So what happened? You didn't do a night drop or you did?

>> I had a female I had a female in the egg box for almost a month. [laughter]

>> Did you uh did she lay a nice clutch? Just

>> She laid on day 61 and she laid a perfect clutch. This girl died on day 55 and I think she retained a She also just never settled down. Like it was the wildest thing I'd ever seen. She just crawled and crawled and she got some rub marks on her face. It was Anyway, I learned a lot through that. But

>> um but anyway, and she retained a couple eggs.

>> I noticed you're um you know, I noticed you're incubating on uh

>> that we're all familiar with, but I want to hear MJ pronounce it. Dude, that's [ __ ] up, dude. [laughter]

>> You You've already said it. You just said it wrong. So, go ahead. Try again.

>> Verculite. Vermculite.

>> Vermiculite. Dude, [ __ ] a dude. Let's [ __ ] let's let's all pile up on MJ right now, Bill. [laughter]

>> How's that coffee drink you?

>> Vermick. You

>> There you go. Got it.

>> Suck my dick. All right. How about that? [laughter]

>> Jesus Christ.

>> But these are cool eggs. Especially uh Bill will will think these are cool. This is um so like recently I've been posting a couple pictures of this. I got a couple yearlings downstairs. One of one in particular looks like it's turning blue. It's got a nice blue fla face on it right now. And um it's a maroon neo. And so I've been that's something I've just posted recently. And in fact, your little um your intro thumbnail uh has it on there.

>> This one?

>> Yeah. Right. The one to the right. Not Well, that one's turning out nice, too. But the other

>> Yeah, that one.

>> These aren't the same. Holy [ __ ]

>> very similar,

>> dude. That's ep.

>> Yeah, they're both both are turning out both are going to be top shelf, I think.

>> Yeah. [ __ ] yeah.

>> Um,

>> so those are sired by Air Force One?

>> Yeah.

>> And um and so that's cool. And he's a real real real potent blue male. Like really tightly bred, real potent. So that's kind of cool. But what I was showing you about those eggs was they're Air Force One bred to a clutch mate to Showtime and Freight Train.

>> Oh, very cool.

>> So, I've, you know, it was like now she's not super Well, actually, I've got some There's some pictures that I sent to MJ that are um um

>> which one

>> of her she's in there somewhere.

>> What What What does

She looks. Which one are we talking about? [laughter] She's. She's. There's a picture of her being bred by Air Force One in there. Is she melanistic at all?

No. She did turn hormonal blue. Let me see if this is. But I bred Air Force One to a much less potent female and got those two that are turning pretty nicely blue. It looks like that's that's my snake dildo. Um, actually breeding the mother to that snake with the blue face. So I switched it up. I took Air Force One, who I had bred to that female, and to produce that bred Neo with the blue face, and I'm breeding dildo to her this year. And then I took Air Force One. Now that's War Zone.

God damn it. And he's with a snake called Blue Chip. That is a sibling to Dildo and Frostbite. The clutch mate, the girl is. Um, what's War Zone's history?

Huh? What's War Zone's history? Velvet Blondie Calico.

Dude, these are so nasty, bro. He's sibling to my female Hot Stuff and um some other just really nice. Mo, all his siblings are yellow or like yellow calicos. Um, that's War Zone. Was not to anybody out there watching, he was not breeding that girl. He was just all he'll do is cuddle her. And so anyway, and all these pairings that everybody's like, "Damn, he should have bred War Zone to him." I tried. [laughter] I put him with every [ __ ] girl first. He got every. He got multiple opportunities and I ended up having to switch to more reliable males. So, but he cuddled a female this year, so maybe next year will be his year.

So, he's just not out. He's just not the best uh male for you yet as far as breeding. He just hadn't turned on. That's Air Force One breeding the clutch mate to Freight Train.

And Showtime.

Okay. So, this is what we're looking for here.

Yep. And that male bred to a different female produced those blue-faced uh snakes that I have changing right now.

So, one thing that's interesting about this pairing is that Air Force One was like a crazy black neonate. Really incredible. And then that girl was a really, really black black neonate as well. So it'll just be interesting to see if it's like a really consistently dark black clutch or if you know, there'll be some red ones in there or something like that. But

And I'm sorry, John, you have eggs from this pairing right here.

Yeah, that's I've got nine eggs from them right now.

Those are those are the eggs that we were just looking at.

Yep.

Beautiful.

Great. And how far are they along?

A week, week and a half, something like that. Refresh. What's up with this pairing right here? This one, it's kind of hard.

You took you showed it once other one other time.

This one?

Yeah, but from a different angle.

Yeah, same pairing.

Oh, okay. Let me.

Now, that's not that's not Air Force One.

Yeah, I know. That is Frostbite breeding my female Swamp Thing.

Oh, wow. And I've got. And she OB. That's her again. That's Air Force One. I'm sorry. [ __ ] That's Frostbite breeding Swamp Thing.

Jesus Christ, dude. This is [ __ ] insane. And I've got some pictures of. There's a there's a picture I sent actually a picture of her ovulating. She's ovulated. That's gonna be the. That's my third female that's set to lay.

And she just had her pre-lay shed a couple of days ago.

Damn. So you're on fire right now.

Yeah, she's really nice. That's gonna be really pretty sick. Um.

How many clutches has she laid? This is she a first-time or.

Her first year? That's her ovulating right there.

Nice.

She doesn't look like a very big snake. She's not. After she um shed, she weighed like 650 grams.

She's a little female, but I think that's going to play into her favor, you know. Um, you know, we're just kind of learning a lot about condro and stuff. And like Christian, her mom was this snake called Lunatic. Um, and really beautiful snake with this bright blue head and all that. And like, you know, she just was this little petite snake. And I remember Christian over the years just being like, "She just needs another year. She just needs another year." And um, you know, this little girl here was like 700 grams or something like that and pudgy and uh like five or six years old and I was like, that's just that's just her size, dude.

Boom. And paired her right up and she just went right through the paces. And it won't be but like, you know, 10 or 12 egg clutch or whatever. I have. I am actually thinking that I've got a higher chance of a nice pretty little well-shelled fertile clutch than trying to push that snake into being twice that size. And uh, you know what I mean?

John, this condro is so nice. This designer is so nice. Ryan Young's complimenting it. That's wild to me. Okay. [laughter]

Ryan's size. I'm a believer, dude. Not pushing him.

He's perfect size and in his head says, "I would want that snake." In his head, he just said that. I know it for a [ __ ] fact. [laughter] He's not being vocal about it. Um, is this the same snake right here, uh, John? Because.

I'm. It's really hard to tell with [ __ ] your stuff, but this one right here with the really cool birthmark on it or.

Yeah, that's her.

Wow. What is that mark right there? What?

That's like. That is like a gnarly what people in the designer community would call an ink spot.

Wow, dude.

Black hole, bro.

Look how red it. Look at that.

That's the condro. That's the condro vortex, bro. The calico vortex. [laughter] Jeez Louise, dude. And.

She's really. She's subtle, you know? She's not one of those super freak bright yellow and all of that, but she was that one. I don't know if y'all remember that when I got her, she was like two years old and she was brown and black.

Yeah, I remember. Yeah.

That's her. And you know, you even seeing her black, it it's a kind of a brown thing. And so she's a descendant from October.

And got a lot of that just brown. And anyway, so it'll be cool. And the male that I brought her to is my male, Frostbite, who's produced.

Just incredible [ __ ]. So that should be super cool.

Dude, man, um.

I'm gonna have to keep those those for everybody watching. I'm just keeping those, you know, for a while.

Yeah. Get off his bumper. Um, this is one of your females as well, I'm assuming.

No, that's a male. That's Showtime. That's. That's the clutch. That's a clutch mate to Bill's Freight Train. Looks a lot like Freight Train.

Dude, wow. So that's a. That was a a typical Freight Train look right there. Uh Bill right there. This is what Freight Train.

Those were the two top males in that clutch was Freight Train and Showtime. Those were the two nice super. You know how clutches will just have like them couple of beauty beauty neos and that they were beautiful as neos and they turned out to be the top top.

But you produced Freight Train, right, Bill?

John did. I did.

Oh, you did. Oh, so and it was a a swap that you guys did, Bill, or how did you get Freight Train again? What was the uh.

Well, that's an interesting story. Uh John gifted me Freight Train uh on a a moment where he lost his marbles. Um and basically he just said, "I have these two males." Um and I don't need both of them. So he sent me Freight Train. Uh I can't even remember how old he was, John. Was he a year old maybe when you sent him?

Probably about a year old.

Probably about a year old. Funny story about Freight Train. Um, I had Freight Train for probably a year and then I had to text John and I said, "John, I need to talk to you. Will you call me?"

And he goes, "Yeah, I can't call you now. I'll call you later tonight or tomorrow or whatever." And I go, so he calls me and I go, "Well, John, luckily we don't need to have the conversation that I was getting ready to have with you because I had lost Freight Train for a week."

What? [laughter] You got out.

Got out.

Couldn't Couldn't find him. Couldn't find him anywhere. And so I.

So I was getting, you know, I was getting ready to make the call, say, "Man, I'm so sorry. I can't believe, you know, this has happened." Because after a week, usually when these things get out, you find them the next day or that day.

Pretty easy to find.

They're easy to find.

Well, you guys know that have been in my room, I have this rocking chair in the front room that sits in front of the TV, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sitting in that rocking chair and I got the foot up and I'm just chillaxing out watching TV and my son-in-law comes in and he goes, "Is there supposed to be a snake in that chair underneath in the hinges of the chair?" I'm like, "What? No." So I jump.

You didn't rock on him like, "Yeah, [clears throat]"

Underneath the chair, curled up in one of the springs of that chair.

And I found him. And when John called me, I said, "Luckily, we don't have to have the conversation I was getting ready to have to have with you." So, I found him and uh boy, what a machine. He He was. He was too.

I'm sure I expressed to you that it would have been no big deal. I probably would have been like, "Bill, if you kill that snake, [laughter] that is just fun."

I'm so glad I didn't because he's [laughter] been a freaking beast. [gasps]

I remember this guy. I forgot who. I think it was um Oh, it was Christian. And I don't know if uh Marshall, if you remember this guy, Paul August back in the day.

Oh yeah.

Yeah. Christian like loaned him one of his like old males that he wasn't going to use anymore. And Paul was like, "Well, I don't know about this man. You know, I would feel uncomfortable if this snake died in my care." And he was like, "Paul, this snake is going to die in your hands." [laughter] Like, "Take him." like, you know, they're never giving him back is what I'm telling you, Paul. [laughter]

It's great. I know. I've definitely heard that story from you, Bill, but I forgot the whole it being Freight Train. Um, and yeah. Yeah, what a story.

One of those deals where I was like, look, if I sell Freight Train, what am I going to do? Somebody's going to give me one unit worth of sale or.

Yeah, for maybe I could charge a premium for him and call in some breeder mail. And I was like, or I could give them to you and let you [ __ ] around with him and breed him into your sickness stuff and see what you can do and then you can just kick me a neonate every once in a while when you're successful with them.

So, it's been a pretty easygoing thing. It's worked out.

That's what I've done. I've tried to kick you some stuff from him every year. He's been.

Um, so yeah, I just can't thank you enough for that.

I thank you. Overthanked you. Or maybe I haven't overthanked you, but if I have.

Don't worry about it. I should I should be.

You know, and this should be a good example where if you're going to do collabs, there should be terms where like no strings attached. Like whatever happens happens.

Yeah. Because Paul was like, "I'm scared of this." And he's like, "Oh no, buddy. This thing's never coming back."

John, over the last two years, I've heard situations where people [ __ ] want to blast each other cuz one's not happy and one can't get the first pick in the. And it's like, dude, how [ __ ] difficult are you guys making this? Like, no. When you start loaning adults around and trade and which is fine. I mean, if you want to roll that dice because there is some cool reward that can come from high risk, but if you take that risk, you can't be.

Can't be a little [ __ ] about it. You know what I mean? It's.

When you ship a snake out on loan, you have to be okay in your head that you just have.

That it's never coming back.

It's almost like loaning a family member money. [laughter]

Like, here's the thousand dollars.

Just take it. We never expect to see it back.

It's a good deed.

Uh, you know, it's just. Right. Exactly. It's a good deed.

And in my opinion, if you're going to do a loan, that's kind of we I am not kidding. Like, they should really just go in one direction and then just stay put. Like almost say like, "All right, well, this female doesn't have but two, three, four, five clutches in her." Maybe you've had a clutch with her or whatever. You're like, I'm going to transfer her over to a different set of opportunities. And that's where that's but you can't be playing car like trading cards here. You know, they don't need to move around a ton.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Something like Christian's in Maryland. I might say, "I'm gonna drive you up this female and I'm gonna she's going to now live with you and then maybe you can pull off some cool [ __ ] that I couldn't do and then I'll get access to some babies that I wouldn't normally be able to have, you know, and I've got enough females that I'm producing that I may be able to be like, "All right, I'll pick out a girl and take him up something." You know, that's the type. And it needs to be someone that you're real good friends with and you need to kind of have that like one direction.

I agree. Stay there. Like these are things that are slowly done. Condro are a slow game, you know, or slow thing.

I agree. Those those situations should uh almost under all circumstances be one-way trips.

All those boxes being checked just makes life easy, man. I'm telling you right now. Just. And again, do it to somebody you really [ __ ] with. A good somebody you don't have to think about trusting. You know what I mean?

I don't even check on him. You know what I mean? It's not like something I'm like, "How's it going? How's it going? How's it going?" I mean, it's like I understand he's doing everything he can. It's all good.

He wants them to breed, too. He'll He'll let me know.

So, do you have some like behind the scene collaborations out there? I mean, you don't have to discuss with who.

Not really. I do have a couple of snakes up at Christian's house.

Nice. Badass. Well, that makes sense.

Yeah. I've got a female. There's a female Joe Girl and she's a great example. She was like this Wamina Highland snake and I had produced a clutch with her and um and then I just kind of made and I got like some bocks and stuff. I bought some.

Bios from Ryan Burke and raised them up and like I I got like four at one time.

Um and anyway, and I was like, well, I'll take you one of them. Um, and so I took him a bo and that girl Joe Girl and like, you know, we're just he bred Joe Girl to to a velvet one year successfully.

Nice. On that on that topic real quick. Is Christian Stewart still breeding? Um, because I heard I heard he really wasn't as much or I'm just curious.

Oh yeah, I don't think he's not pursuing it as aggressively, but yeah, he's got u a nice amount of stuff up there that he's still screwing around with.

How far is he from you, John?

Um, it'd probably take me three hours to get there.

Three hours.

Three and a half hours, maybe.

You're you're What state are you in again, John? Remind me.

Virginia.

Virginia. Okay, that's right. Yeah. So, you're in that sector. Um, because you're not far from Ed either, right? You're just like a few hours from Ed.

Same thing. It take me like three, three and some change hours to drive up to Ed.

That whole area has crazy OG breeders and [ __ ].

Yeah.

Even Aussie Boyd's is in that area. Like there's like.

Yeah, the East Coast is the uh, you know, the where the all the Tandro guys I guess maybe Florida too but.

Yeah, East Coast, Maryland.

Really got off to the national zoo, you know, with Trooper being at the national zoo and being such an influence.

And Trooper working at the national zoo lives in Northern Virginia.

And then, you know, just people crossed paths with him and he got him off on the right foot and that's, you know, then he met Tim Morris. Tim Morris, I think, met Trooper just going to the zoo.

And like hooked up with Trooper and then they became buds and.

Rest is history.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, with that being said, you know, we're talking about, you know, ovulations, clutches in the incubator. Um, is there a time of the year where nothing's breeding? Like you have a shut-off time, correct? Or no?

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty much now. People were like I've had people reach out to me and was like, "How did your breeding season go?" And it'll be like they'll ask this question in December. I'm like, well, it's still going. I'm like.

Yeah. I mean, I'm in the middle of winter, man. I'm gonna pair all the way until, you know, because I just I'm catching them on a different spectrum. I I would imagine I would get.

You could probably build that out if you had an ultrasound and were doing it. You know, you could.

Yeah.

Find out when all your stuff was going. But I'm just kind of probing around with my males, trying different things. And Oh, man. I've definitely landed clutches, you know, putting some stuff together in like July and August and catch some early stuff and then um certainly I get a nice band. Well, you almost like that's kind of what you see. You're like, "Okay, it's all on everything's kind of going good at one time." And but I've caught tons of spring pairings, too.

Right? And with that being said, you know, you you can completely control the temperatures in your room, right? Like you're not really ambient as far as like what is happening in your weather during the summertime. Like it's still the same temperature all year round. That that's how you run it.

Uh, I mean, I do get weather influence. I'm trying to roll. I have I have to let the weather do what it's doing. You know, my room is easier to cool in the winter time for sure. And it kind of goes through a little and I'm I'm thinking about trying some different things because I've I've really tried to get to where I'm a panel off at night person.

Yeah.

And, you know, Bill has spoken about that like.

Yeah. So, and I listen to stuff that and I'm like that just to me makes sense like.

Instead of.

Like just the room being the right temperature and not this like little tiny point source of heat trickling out a little bit of heat. So, I'd like it to just go panel off at night all year round.

Yeah. But in my because they're in my residence in the winter time, I'm sorry, in the summertime, my air conditioning for my home is running more.

And then that my snakes are in the basement. And so, you know, how people with a basement can have a nice chilly basement in the summertime.

Yeah.

You know, you come in and the AC is running and that's the coolest room of the house. Well, that's why I get [ __ ] that seem I'm like, "Ah, damn. All this [ __ ] seems like it's revving up and getting ready to roll a little early." So, I'll start pairing in July and August. Sometimes I just. But I'm thinking about.

I'm thinking about actually running room heat in my room in the summertime just to kind of counter that a little bit.

Balance it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What were you gonna say, Bill? I I was just going to say with with all of these smart technology, you know, I've got smart heaters, smart [snorts] room heaters that like if I have like one, you know, I've got four rooms in my facility, we'll have one room that tends to be like the baby room tends to be too cold, you know. Um, so I will run just a little and it's so awesome because it's it's um, you know, it's thermostat controlled. I've got it on my phone. I can dial in the temp at night, turn it, it goes off during the day, it's on during the day, off at night, or vice versa, whatever. It's just so easy to run those things, and you can really have a microclimate in a small room. It's just really, really convenient.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah. And so, um, yeah, with that being said, Bill, how, uh, what's that room you're trying to keep it at when it comes to the babies? What are you aiming for? Well, I you know, the room that the babies are in, I try to keep a little bit warmer. You know, they obviously don't need to be cycled during the winter. They don't need temp drops to 70 degrees, right?

So, you know, I'll I'll, you know, I'll just run that little.

Room heater in there and and just keep those nighttime temps up a little bit and then I can drop the rest of the facility down to whatever temp I want.

But what is that temp is what I meant like what like what's the range you like to stay in with the babies? I want the babies, you know, I I like to keep basically 75 degrees. Um,

No colder than that.

Around even when I'm dropping temps in the main room in the in the other two rooms.

Yeah, 75 is like my my desired room temp, my summertime room temp, you know, like.

Oh, wow. That's low. Not low. I mean, to me it is. I'm not saying that's like ideal.

That's where I keep mine. I mean, during the day, 75 degrees. I mean like and then, you know, in the summer time when when the when things really have you know, you get like heat momentum, you know what I mean? The heat's just building up and it kind of will rise past the desired state. I get up in like the 77, 78 range.

But there might be ebb and flow there, but 75 is my target, you know what I mean? And I tell you what, it's it's really nice to work in a 75 degree room versus an 80 degree room. Yes, that's right. I'm just. So, there you go. In my early days, like I was kind of like, well, I just want to. But now I know, you know, I wanted to keep it like uh keeper friendly in there.

Yeah.

Yeah. My room is not keeper friendly. I sweat like a [ __ ] dog in here. Like, so does Alex. Love it.

Now, Marshall, do you do the full warm room, ambient everything?

Yeah, I I mean that I have individual heat in every cage, but I do do in the summertime. I try to keep it ambient even in the winter. The winter time, like right now, we're getting down into the 20s at night. So, um, you know, this time of year, it's hard to get the room to 80 during the day. Um, and it'll I'll drop it to 74, 73 at night. U, but in the summertime, it's uh 78 at night and 82, 83 during the day.

And it's heated to to be that to be that warm. Um.

[ __ ] My room my room gets like.

Yeah, but it's no fun working in there.

My room gets like that now in San Diego. Like my room, if I don't do [ __ ] and just leave it alone, it my room will get to 84, 85 currently right now with the weather. It's crazy. I just think it's really hot.

You know, John and I have talked about this before. You have your room temperature. I have so much heat in my facility with my ball python racks.

And I mean, I even in the winter, it's it's like I rarely turn the freaking heat on.

Yeah. I'm gonna have to use the heat in the summertime to control my nighttime low. Like.

I don't I'm not running a heat right now at all in the winter time. They're rising and falling just about I'm in a basement, too. And so I'm really thermally stable. Like it takes some good cold days to really bang it down that temperature and really pump it down and get it to.

To get the drops that I need. And so um right now it's kind of runs itself. I really don't um use room heat, but I'm I'm thinking well, since moving to this place, I have my room heat has just sat unplugged and I'm thinking about throwing it on a thermostat to oddly run it in the summertime at night.

Just to counterbalance my AC.

You have a recently new room, right? I mean.

Three or four years.

Yeah, because you.

I'm getting dialed, you know, like my my stuff's starting to breed breed again, you know, after the move. of getting good clutches again.

Yeah.

Why did you hit a little.

Bad clutches, but I'm I'm able to go hard now and I'm pair I'm fearlessly or more fearlessly pairing up.

Did you face some obstacles a couple years in that new room uh the first couple years like or or was it pretty just.

No, not really. I didn't. Maybe I shouldn't make as much out of that, but you know, I'm just I got a bunch of mature girls now. Things seem to be clicking. I've kind of mastered my temps in there and kind of like, you know, had to give up ground in some places as far as the way I want, you know what I mean? And like how do I overcome this challenge here? And I feel like I've I'm running the room real real stably now.

John, um, remind me and to our viewers, your humidity control.

Oh, yeah. That's got You talk about smart stuff. This one I don't is not smart. It has smart capability, but um yeah, I've actually changed um and I'm man, I'd hate to say this because I can't think of the guy's name, but he's a super nice guy and y'all know him probably from Ball Pythons. He owns the uh business Chimera.

Oh yeah, Andre.

Oh yeah, Andre. That's right. Good guy. Lives in Rono, Virginia, and he came to get a snake from me recently um for another friend of ours and um.

Andrew Marshall. And so he came over to pick up something for Andrew and.

Andre and Andrew are friends.

I think. So, well, obviously, yes.

Oh, I didn't know that. Cool. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean that. Go ahead. So anyway, yeah, so while he was there, I was showing him my um humidifier, which is, you know, big humidifier, and I mounted a ball float valve in it. You know, it's a miniature one.

Um, and that's awesome. And I put it on an RO filter, a reverse osmosis filter. And so, um, it just runs and runs and runs and refills itself. And it's it's awesome. But anyway, Andre, while he was there, he was showed me this wall-mounted one.

Um, I guess they use it in um greenhouse situations. And anyway, he gave me a link to it. It's called HortiCat.

Um, and it's a I haven't installed it yet, but it's wall-mounted and direct plum. And I guess I don't know why that psychologic I'm not relying on a mechanical little float valve, but I guess that thing has to have some kind of cut-off valve in it. Like it has to be able to turn the water on and off.

Are these are these? They look like this right here.

Yeah. Like.

Did you just type in the word HortiCat?

No, I just typed in wall-mounted uh humidifier and these.

But yes, that kind of is like what it looks like. Why don't you type in wall-mounted humidifier? HortiCat. H O R T I C A T.

H O R T.

I C A T. John, you're the um person that gave me the idea of hard wiring an RO filter into my humidifier. The best thing I've ever done. It's on a float valve system just like you described with the RO unit. It comes on at night. 80% humidity.

You know, in that those back rooms at night.

There you go.

Unbelievable. It's RO water. No cond, you know, none of that white flaky [ __ ].

No descaling it. Price.

Bro.

So, I'm stepping up to that one. I mean, you know, it's like a $380 unit. It's wall mounted. I like the idea of that. It gets it out of the floor.

[ __ ] yeah, dude. Okay. I'm curious how quick how often do you have to change these filters.

Dude. Like, basically, you run that you. Now, this is not the total. This is something that was easy to do for me because I already had an RO filter. But no, you need an RO RO filter to go with this, which is the multi-canister thing and it strips it down to like almost zero total dissolved solid. Zero parts per million total dissolved solids.

So there's no filter on this thing. It's all because you you're using really good water. So you don't that that's the filter is the the RO system is what you're saying.

Yeah. Basically, you're giving it almost basically distilled water. Yeah. I've got the same thing. Mine's an industrial humidifier. It doesn't even have a filter.

Yours is like the one that sits on the ground and moves and like it spins, right, Bill? It's like a fan or or what's the one you use?

It can spin. I I just have a direct um like triangular flow that comes out of it. Um but yeah, it's great because it has no filters. I used to change filters freaking every two weeks. They'd get nasty and spilled.

They suck. I mean, I I listen, I love my I love my air air humidifiers. They're great, but the whole [ __ ] Oh, look at that filter. I got to change it. Like.

Does your snake room have either a sink in it or on an outside on right on the other side of.

I got on this wall. I have the the my my water lines. I see my water lines on this side.

There, bro.

Okay. Damn, I'm excited. I think we did this last time.

They even make like a little tap valve. You would just tap on right onto your line and you just screw and it I mean, we're not talking about complex.

Tapping into that line. And then it mine mine comes right out of a uh little hole in in the sink and it's just plumbed right into the water line of a little sink that I have in in that back room and it just man it's just totally totally easy. I'm such a I'm such a believer in, you know, use products that that keep your workload.

Efficient.

Workload efficient and yeah.

You know, buy buy once, cry once, you pay a few hundred, $400 for.

Then you're not like running that thing dry and finding the room dry. It's just like you said it, you want it 65, boom, and it just holds it.

What the [ __ ] That's what I need. See, I can't miss a beat in here. Like if I like what happened to me earlier was I I went remember took my dad to the World Series game and I was gone for almost like almost two days. It was a long time and I forgot to fill my [ __ ] before I left and my room was [ __ ] in the 20% like it was nut dry for almost a whole day and a half. And so um and one of the best upgrades I've made. You will even.

It's almost like inconsistent humidity might actually be bad for snakes. You know what I mean? Like if they were to get like dry and then it's like humid not good. They get sick like that.

But when you get them on whatever you pick a number and you like it and it feels good in the room and they regulate to that and um my snakes just look hydrated, you know, they don't get the creasiness and uh they just.

Happy and hydrated, man.

It's cut way down on my spraying or.

I mean, yeah.

Wetting the the substrate and all that kind of [ __ ] I mean, it just takes all of that out of the equation.

Yeah. Does the RO filter dump directly into the reservoir for the humidifier or do you have you have like a holding tube?

No, the the RO filter hooks up into a holding tank, at least in my system. And the holding tank has a float valve and, you know, so it cuts off, you know, when when the tank is full. And then my humidifier also has a float valve and it cuts off when the humidifier is full. I mean, it's pretty easy.

You got two You got two float valves. You got one that keeps the reservoir from the RO filter full and the other one that turns on and pulls water from that.

RO filters come with these little reservoir tanks.

Yeah.

And they can and that's for drinking water and it like lives Is that what you're talking about, Bill? Like lives under the sink.

Yeah. But but I have a like a I don't know maybe it's a 25-gallon trash can.

Oh, do you set up as my So the RO water comes into that trash can. The trash can's full and that's what the humidifier is linked to.

So, we're looking we're talking about something like this.

Yep.

Is this a tank that you're talking about, Bill? How big is this a big ass tank that you have? Don't you have a tank like this? Isn't it big?

My tank My tank's bigger than that. My It's not even a tank. It's literally a trash can.

So, Bill doesn't So, this is This would go under your sink for like a drinking water system. And inside that tank is a bladder, like a whoopee cushion. Think about that.

Yeah. And as the water goes in there, it compresses that that bladder, it's got like enough equilibrium that the pressure of the RO can fill the tank up. But then on the top of your countertop where there's a little valve, you've got like your little drinking water thing, you can open that up and that bladder has got enough pressure so that you don't have to get because the Auro membrane only allows like 50 gallons per day out or something like that, some really slow trickle. And so on these drinking water systems, they've got this tank that lives under your sink that gives you a little access to a few gallons of water that are already filtered and prepped and ready to roll. And that's what mine's running on is under the sink. I've got that that little tank and then that goes to my uh humidifier. But what Bill's got is he's got his RO filter just trickle feeding into a trash can and using that as his reservoir with a flow valve on it. Going from there to his humidifier.

And my humidifier is really just run by gravity. It's just gravity from the trash can, you know, into the humidifier. It sounds complicated. It's not.

Once you get it set up, it makes your life so much easier. [laughter]

I'd rather say the word perlite.

Do Hey, do our filters still have a wastewater line comes through? Yeah. You gotta have.

So you just.

So you just dump that into your into the sink.

Yes. Exactly. And so in the drinking water setup like it's got the little tank under the sink and you on your supply line you put a T [clears throat] and that goes to your that feeds the system the supply and then and then there's a little line that comes out. That's your like that's your desirable water that you want. And there's another line and you tap into the um.

To the drain.

Into the drain. There's a little what they call a little saddle tap and it just grabs onto the drain and uh you put it like right after the little trap the little swan neck and it just goes out.

Yeah.

It's a it's a system that is um it's very very good but it's not without fraught. And I'm saying that because if one of those valves gets stuck.

In the on position.

Happened to me once. You wake up with a flooded uh floor.

Yeah. I'm not down for that. I'm good on floods. Floods are.

Terrible. It's your garage wall mounted one, which is just I want to direct plum into it and I'm not using, you know, it's just like.

You just call my reptile room a garage, bro. Okay. I [ __ ] dumped.

I'm just saying it's not like there's it's not like there's carpet or [ __ ] in there.

You can't put a car in here. And there's nice flooring in here. What? Dude, have you not been in my room, Marshall? Bro, I have housing. I have wood floor. It's not real wood, but you know what I'm saying, bro? Like, don't ever disrespect my room like that again. Call it a garage. You can't park in here, pal. [laughter] This guy, dude. John, don't let him act like I don't have a sick ass reptile room. I do, and I want you. [laughter]

Luckily, Luckily, I have Luckily, I don't have expensive hardwood floors that I don't have to worry about getting [ __ ] flooded. [laughter]

Wait, what floor do? Wait, hold on. I'm trying to think of the flooring you have, Bill. It's not ghetto, I'll tell you that much.

Well, it's only concrete with a like a little I don't even know what epoxy or like there or the uh.

Epoxy. It's epoxy.

Oh, yeah. There we go. Okay. Okay. Hey, you know what's crazy? I have to upgrade. These floors are [ __ ] up. Um, because I did I remember I had a flood here two years ago. Um, and I I What's it I can't remember the name of this type of wood flooring. It's I think it's vinyl.

I Yeah, vinyl.

So, basically, man. Yeah, there's [ __ ] needs to happen in here where I have to get these floors redone, but I'm not going to just go to the [ __ ] garage floor. Okay, Marshall, I'll figure it out.

That's what my room is. I'm just concrete.

Um, no. Yeah. So, I don't know. Um, yeah, I could just The idea of never having to fill my humidifier tanks sound pretty [ __ ] next level dreamy to me. I'm not going to lie. And then the filters. If I could ditch the filters, too.

Not only that, no filters. Don't have to fill it. Just plug and forget it. The RO would cost you like a year. I clean my that that humidifier once a year.

That RO filter would cost you like 200 bucks, 250 bucks. And then getting that wall mounted one which would eliminate the mechanical float valves. It's kind that's why I'm doing it. My friend Brian Fischer was like, I just could never live with the float valve. I would be scared. And then I was like, all right, fine. You know, so um anyway, so dude, you're talking about like 600 bucks, man. And you can be in the steady humidity year round, never touch a thing ever again.

I have three I have three air cares in here, okay? And I spent 140 on each air care already. And then the filters I have to replace. I have to get more filters like every two months. And those are 50 bucks. I get 50 bucks for like two filters or something. It's [ __ ] It's already expensive. What I'm already doing doesn't even make sense. But it but what I'm doing has helped and it's worked. It's just very maintenance consuming. It's like you have to [ __ ] always be on top of it. But to have it on my wall, set it and forget it, dude. I need to look into that. It's happening. I'm that kind of keeper. I'm bougie like that. I need that in my life. I really do.

Do you guys find any.

So happy.

Keeping your room so humid. Do you ever see mold on in in on drywall or on any anything.

Now? Well, Bill said 80%. I keep my I go for in the winter time, I don't push it because it's just battling against the cold so much. I just shoot for 65. Oh, that's.

And then normally in the summertime, it just runs so much less because my room kind of gets there on its own. So, I'm not pumping. It does its thing and keeps it day and night, you know, as the temperature cools and that it needs less humidity or less added moisture to maintain the same relative humidity like it's adjusting and, you know, doing its thing. Um, and year round from season to season, from day to night to from what from the high to the low temp. But Marshall, to answer your question, yeah, the 80% humidity, I would never run that 24/7. It runs at night. It runs eight hours a night. You know, at night time, I'm not in there. Um, so yeah, I run 80% humidity at night, but then during the day drops down to these, you know, Texas winters freaking 30, 30% humidity during the day.

Yeah. [clears throat] Right now, my room looking at it is 38, 40% basically. So.

I have I have no humidifier though. So all I all my humidity comes from from from the cages from spraying the cages.

If I had no humidifiers, my [ __ ] would be like 10, 15%. It'd be terrible.

Yeah.

Now in the summertime, I can't get it below 80% humidity, 75% humidity.

Really?

Yeah. It gets humid in Alabama, dude. Super sticky.

But that's perfect. That's I mean.

I was thinking about the other day, you're born and raised in Alabama.

Florida. I mean, raised, but yeah, I was I've lived here since I was like, you know, six or seven years old, eight years old.

Yeah. Yeah. But you you were raised there. You've got.

Alabama childhood memories.

I do.

And he has an accent. Alabama accent, dude. He's [ __ ].

Southern southern raising memories. [laughter]

Hey, I bet that makes.

I've got me and my silly snake names. I've got a snake that one on the opening picture that's really solid black. I've been thinking about naming him Black Velvet Elvis.

Wow.

But you'd have to be from the back in the South there were people that would have these Black Velvet Elvis paintings.

Yeah.

They still do.

Right next to their dogs playing poker.

Bro, my grandma had one. My grandma had the exact I know what you're talking about, dude. I'm not joking.

Yeah, like a million different ones.

I would just call him Elvis. But um it would be a fun little thing to you know when I write out his name on the internet call him Black Velvet Elvis.

Elvis sounds better.

Huh?

Black Velvet Elvis sounds better.

It's cool. Yeah.

Okay. On the on the.

I could call him like Freezer Burn or you know or some other [ __ ] like that. But I'm like I don't care. I'll call him something funky and weird.

I wouldn't want to name a condro anything that has to do with the name freezer for sure. [laughter]

Just just to be on the safe side. You know what I mean? Uh but dude, all right, speaking of black velvet.

or anything black. Um, well, and you know, he his mom was hot stuff and her dad was velvet, right? So he's from Christian's velvet blondie pairing, and this would be velvet would be its grand sire, I guess. So I kind of think that's also a neat little nod there. The black velvet Elvis.

So what's ridiculous? What's going on with this steak right here? I don't know where it went.

That's um that, yeah. So that's, yeah. You know, that was off my male Frostbite and my male Frostbite. I went and compared, like I went and, you know how your phone is, you can just go through the date and I found when Frostbite was that exact age and did a comparison, and this snake is significantly blacker than him. So, I'm like, well, you know what I mean? And I don't get as, you know, like people are like, "Oh my god, you know, just the black, I love it." But I'm always like, "Whoa, the verdict is not, you know, like let us let, you know, these things can lose black a lot, you know, and so yeah."

But at the same time, you can't get a high black adult unless you start with a high black yearling. So you got to start somewhere.

That's a very good point. Um, you know, obviously because you this is a very exciting game and you know, the smallest thing can get you all worked up, but man, changes are a part of raising up condro for sure. Doesn't mean I'm not excited about it, but I'm like, you know, let's just see what he does over two or three more years. He's just going to want to let us snacks.

So, let's I have some hot topics for us tonight. You know, one of them one of them being John is like, you know, you had a you had a pretty spicy post in the Melia group. Um, and I kind of want you to break it down, you know, because, you know, I know you even said that you you showed examples of that at times before where you're showing a pairing, but really like the pairing that you're showing is far from being fully developed to what it currently looks like. But I mean, how long have you been seeing stuff like that? And can you really break down what you meant by that post if you don't mind?

Yeah, sure. I I was actually talking to Brian and them about it before I, you know, I just like I do. I probably first off I'll start by saying I got a little smartass vibe, you know, what I mean, in my veins and I also don't ever I'm not a [ __ ] talker wanting to like stab at people as individuals, but sometimes a little food for thought for the community, just whether it be for people that are thinking about buying snakes or even people that are selling snakes, just to think about like, you know, how are you representing resenting yourself? Are you proud of that? Like, are you really representing yourself honestly? And so I just think that like there is a lot of snake sales and bragging rights and all those things that come from just well represented snakes. You don't have to be um, I think all of them are beautiful and and uh, and so I don't know. I guess what I'm saying is everyone should just be proud to try to post their snakes as honestly and as transparently as they can. Um, and that there's a lot of benefit in that, um, long term in the community when you, you know, when you post post these snakes and they're and I'll tell you man, I'm not saying I'm talking [clears throat] about people like even people I'll sell them a snake and then like two weeks later they're posting the snake 10 times bluer than I just sold them the snake.

And they just get sucked in and I'm like, ah.

You think I get it and they get all the likes and they get like, huh?

You think they're man manipulating the color of an animal?

No. I mean, I just think that your cell phone will give a especially in the world of blue, give a lot of an assistance to a blue.

Or hey, or Instagram, right, Marshall? Hey, [ __ ] Marshall. You should see the filtered [ __ ] photos Marshall did. But they to be fair, he completely.

They were all reals.

It was an accident. Okay. And.

They were all reals.

We fixed the glitch. Okay. [laughter]

Well.

Hey, they think they fixed the glitch, but those those reels are still are still.

The albino. The albino looks like freaking somebody painted it with like pink and orange water. Like.

He's still getting offers from Korea. He's still getting offers from people from Japan and [ __ ]. [laughter]

Listen, I'm not an idiot, dude. Listen, I post a lot of photos. I know with the new iPhone and [ __ ] it's so easy to click a couple things and enhance photos. It's It's so easy to make a blue background, which makes a bluer snake. I talk to Alex Warren about this all the time and like, you know, I like taking pictures when it's like it's early, I'm sorry, like almost late morning where like right before the sun fully comes out and I like to take pictures right behind my house where it's shaded. Um, and then Alex says, "Well, sometimes that's almost misrepresenting the snake." But for me, I feel like that's the clearest shot. You could see everything in the snake. But what's crazy is if you were to put that snake in the sun, it's going to look like a completely different snake. And even if you take the sun and then if you take the snake inside the house or in your room, it's going to look like a completely different snake. So what photo gives it legitimacy? Like what photo?

Now, that I believe because I will even take my snakes and I'll look at them with my eyes and I'll I I like I really push myself. I'll be like, what am I really seeing with my eye right now? And I'll like take photos and I'll go through my photos and I'll like be looking at the snake in the photo. And there is no doubt that a blue snake does look nicer outside in a kind of that overcast shady spot. It's it's brighter and prettier. There's there's no doubt um that showing off the real colors is.

I don't think there's anything wrong with representing a snake like that.

I don't.

No. No, not at all.

You know, there's one thing about manipulating a picture. There's another thing about trying to take an animal a picture of the animal in its best light.

Right? Like there's nothing. I mean, this is I feel like really good lighting and very good example what you're showing right here. Um, but what's crazy is if this was outside, it's not going to look like this. It's going to show.

Was really radioactive. I'd have to work hard to make that balloon not look fake.

Yeah. So again, I don't I don't think people not everyone, right? I do think there's a percentage of people who know what they're doing and and it's mainly people who aren't really um, I don't know. I can't say it's not really the ones who are breeding it, but I definitely could see the ones who inquire them and they buy them and they post it. It's like holy [ __ ] that thing upgraded pretty quickly. You know what I mean? Um, but then again, like where do we grow where's where's it really crossing the line? Um, I feel like where.

That's why I would never like I don't even mean anything other than just like only you like you said like only you can like do the whole like look at the snake and look at the picture thing. Just look at them and just try your best to.

Not produce radioactive glue glowing pictures is you know what I mean? Like.

And and trust me dude, I have really looked back at my own photos like from years ago and things that passed my sniff test and like I I I would look at I'm like, oh my god, I can't believe I post you know, like I look at like pictures of like Wrangler and [ __ ] I'm like, man, I don't know if he was quite that blue, you know what I mean? A second look at him later, like five years later, I'm like, so you know.

Well, there's a difference if you're taking picture and you're, you know, like we talked about manipulating the color or the, you know, I mean, that's totally different than if you just take a picture of the animal and it somebody posted on the comments that social media can make your pictures look so different.

Yeah.

As long as you're not doing anything intentionally to manipulate how that how that animal really looks. I mean.

Yeah.

I you know, I think there's a little bit of leeway there. But but [laughter] as as somebody who built your own resume, if if you post a picture and you even could see like, oh, what what is that? You got to do something about it because if not, you leave it there.

People. You'll get judged all day. You know what I'm saying? Unless you're Marshall, he don't give a [ __ ]. He that was that was legit a [ __ ] one-off situation. [laughter]

I think there was like four or five. But who's.

Car up? No, but yeah. I And you know what's another crazy thing, man? You know, I would say one of the things about, you know, coming across Bill's uh work for the very first time, he had an iconic like flower background. He he had a um the bush, that bush he would always post in front of Bill, right?

And that always made me feel like, dude, I need to find that background where I could always bring my snake and it's always the spot I go to. And man, I remember having that at my very first trap. And then when I moved here, it depends where the sun's at. And I'm like, I'm always trying to find a good spot. I like I like out I like outside shots more than anything, but I'm always trying to find the best background shot for the snake and the animal. Um, and I feel like people should really just pay attention to these snakes that they're posting because people do pay attention.

It's funny, MJ, that you say that because you're talking about pictures that I took at my old place.

Yeah.

New place. I've gone completely the opposite. I'm going to post all these brick wall.

They're all going to be posted against the exact same brick wall. I don't want you looking at the [ __ ] brick wall. [laughter] I want you to look at the animal.

Admiring my flowers [laughter] are basically have the the floor of my room as the background.

You Marshall, you don't take your pictures outside?

Rare, very rarely.

All mine are outside.

But I mean shots like shots like this, dude. I mean even because it's hard to get a really good shot with the flash, you know, but depending on the Other thing is be will I think it's cool to like just take a picture of your snakes in a couple different ways. You know what I mean? And then the mind well those of us with experience seeing our snakes and outdoor and indoor and flash shots, there's a little averaging that you can go on and be like, all right, I kind of get what that snake really looks like. He's posted the outdoor shade shot and the sunshot and the, you know, I think that's another way of doing it is um posted a bunch of different ways. [snorts] That's a one way of and that's kind of how I I will sometimes try to like, I'm like, "Hey, it's this a tough snake to honestly represent, you know what I mean?" And so I just take a bunch of different shots.

I would rather under represent a snake in a picture than over.

I don't want anybody to ever open a box and go, "Oh, damn. This this doesn't look nearly as nice as your picture."

You just want to be where like they'll be super stoked when they open the box. And absolutely.

Yeah, that kind of thing.

Wasn't the the post that you made though, what wasn't it more about about showing pictures of the adults in their adult state versus using.

Pictures while they were changing those things. But one of my posts was about like, you know, you see the um this is not as prevalent anymore because of the advent of um cell phones, but you used to see back in the day a lot that people would raise the snake up and capture like the glamour shot of it to represent the snake and then just forever more that was the image that was seared into the community's mind of that snake. Um, and snakes. Now, Dave actually kind of really started pushing this on his website. Under each picture of the snake is a date at which the picture was taken. And some of them he hasn't updated in a long time, but at least you know that. And some of them, you know, and he basically has said like I I do that because, you know, if I pull a snake out and take a fresh picture of it, I'll I'll update the picture on the website because condondro are known to whether it be lose a little black or gain blue or all kinds of things, you know, they can really they can do a little a lot of shifting around, you know, and mature over time, especially these calos and stuff. I got calos that are, you know, they're have orange on them and stuff and red on them stuff and four and five years old. So, they really have some changing to do. So, one of the things that's pretty new to me, not really new, but like, you know, you definitely have people who follow your work enough to like almost determine to be confident to know exactly what you have already. And what I mean by that is like, you know, I got a calico designer from uh from uh Mark Hager, you know, three years ago, and he ended up siring a couple of my clutches. So nice.

As I've been showing the babies, I I put like, you know, calico mail from Mark Hager to BAK and um next thing you know, like and this is expected, right? But you have people saying, "Well, you know, MJ has 3% calico in his stuff and he's trying to see as calico." And I'm like, "Okay, so let me let me and and okay, that that's fair. Let me look into it because I don't want to misrep misrepresent anything and I'm just doing what I saw Mark and others can do. So let me let me look into it." And then I find out like what is the true percentage of this calc stuff that people really have to the point where you could tell me I have it or not. And and I'm since you work with since you work with this so much John and and again I let the snakes do the talking like I let what I see prove what I have. But in your eyes like when does somebody have to say they don't have calico stuff because how low the percentage is or I'm.

The thing about the calico line is it's not really been line bred. So it is in a perpetual state of like dwindling down.

Delusion. Yeah. Delusion.

Yeah. And so and there are just I was think I've been thinking about that too um about how to like explain that [snorts] and the blue line and the way it was bred with this kind of line breeding strategy. you know, they got people really fixated on like percentage of and while that's I guess can be played with uh delicately, you know, like trying to achieve these high percentage animals, you know, there's that comes that can come with some problems. You know, you're just breeding really tightly genetic stuff. Anyway, so Maxwell um I think the first pairing he did was um Computer Condro. I think it was to its sister. Yeah.

And that's what produced uh Cal Jr. And so, you know, those are like the originals, but at that point, he started to breed it to what I'd consider compatible females, but they were outcrosses. You know, genetically, they were phenotypical, like good compatible matches. And so there's always been this thing about some people think that a calico is this look and some people think it's this genetic thing and you know all of that. Well, and I'll just def I think first off to even be in the conversation like I do think respectfully it does need to be a genetic tieback to Maxwell's stuff.

Right?

Um, otherwise you just have a you have a really cool snake. You. It's not bad, but it's like you have a It's like kind of Sandro discovered that snake insanity. He didn't try to say what I have is um a calico animal. He he said I've got, you know, and he created this little insanity line thing and and yes, now those are cool to cross to the calos. Um, and it's the same thing like the Dreamline or or Pedro over in Europe, he discovered Mosaic and like man, in fact, dude, if you come up with one that proves to be heritable and it's unique, that's super cool. You should actually try to define your [ __ ] as as separate.

And the only reason you would want to get cloaked in the name Calico is is just from a value perspective. Like I, you know, I I see the calico ones selling for so much, I want mine to be that, too. So I think that's like no it does at least need to have the genetic tie to Maxwell's stuff. It's got to have it's like in England, right? Like.

There's you can be outcrossed a gazillion times, but there is a genetic tie to the royal blood, right? It's got to have the royal blood.

And so there's that. And then Johnny.

I'm I'm sorry to interrupt, but you think as long as you have the ties back to a Maxwell animal, even if it's 10% calico, you can you could call that a calico or a calico outcross.

Yeah. Or calico line animal. And and and I was actually thinking about that part like then there's the people that think well like if it doesn't have the neck or it doesn't have the whatever or it doesn't then it's not a calico because I guess sometime back in the day Greg Maxwell in his book provided gave some framework to like what made one and so there are some people that say well like Greg described it but man when we started crossing them to the dream thing and you see things like that blackmail that you just showed you. I think what we're going for is phenotypically super extreme animals and they they're not necessarily yellow or black or brown or anything. They it it's the [ __ ] is wonderful. It expresses itself in all kinds of different ways. And it you might say, well, at 1% is it really the calico blood that's doing anything? There does seem to be even if the percentage of blood is dwindling down, there does seem to be a little magic that gets passed along the way.

Yeah, I agree.

You know, it just does. And so ones that tie back to the line have been proven to throw the most extreme beautiful snakes, you know, in a lot of people's eyes. Um, so I don't fight that part. Um, and then but I guess if you wanted to play by those those people that think that way's rule, you would just call your your green ones calico line animals or calico outcross animals and the ones that were super freak like in appearance. Kind of one of those like, you know it if you see it type things. It's like it is what it is. And and then you could call those calico. And that may be like what I would do online like if I was like showing some green snake that's just bright green look like an au but had a calico dad. I'd be like this nice calico line female is coming up to age. Can't wait to breed her. That might be like what I would do just to play play online. But in if I was talking to you, you know, whatever, and we were collabing on it and like like you were Christian or something and this was a descendant of Velvet, I would be shucking and jing with him on the phone like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, that green Calico girl. Yeah, man. She's gravid. I'm going to get her, you know, dude, I can't wait till she lays." And I would just be referring to her. But, you know what I mean? Like, he knows who I'm talking about and that kind of [ __ ] So.

Yeah. Well, there you have it. As long as.

I just, you know, and I I don't I don't want to be the one like at all that defines what people do. Um, but yeah, man, if it's tied back to the calico line stuff and you are, man, like these police like need to be a damn cop, you know what I mean? Like.

They can't pass the physical. That's the thing. There's no way they could be a police. They're [ __ ]. They could can't even climb a wall, these [ __ ] chumps, dude. Uh, but I will tell you this.

I guess what I'm saying is one post and one statement is not one is not a person's complete effort at representing the animals. Like if you were like if you were to get into conversation and someone were be like, "Yeah, man. Well, I mean, her dad was this and her mom was that and D and these were my results." And I mean, how can anyone claim you're not representing the animals? Honestly, you're just you're willing to describe them in detail. It's it's transparency, right? Just transparency.

Yeah.

But if you want I mean like I guess you could add the word line calico line female and maybe that'll solve it. Poor.

I want to show some of the raiseups that you have going on.

But I do think it's foul play to like call some [ __ ] that's not even related to Greg's work a calico line animal and people be like calico is not a genetic. It's a look. It's a blah blah blah. Like the only reason you're trying to do that is because you just want the brownie points that come along with the calos. Call your [ __ ] something else, man.

Oh [ __ ].

It's so nice.

If you don't got the paper trail, don't lie about it.

Yeah, it's all good.

Okay. But other than.

And that comes from in the ball python community. People wouldn't even know some of these. I was thinking about that, too. They wouldn't be able to attribute some of these morphs back. Maybe like Pete Call and the first ever Pides or something like that or the guys that discovered the first albino, but there's so many morphs that I'm sure a lot of the ball python keepers don't have that like grandfather of the hobby lore. And like for us, I would just never step on Greg's toes like that. I just know him personally and or at least through professionally through the hobby and that kind of thing. And that's his work. And I would call myself I'd call my stuff something different if I discovered some fluke new gene.

Not to get off topic, but Greg Maxwell confirmed Trapfest this year. Just so you guys know. Okay. Another reason why John should pull up.

Uh, because he'd be iconic to have you here with Maxwell.

Oh yeah.

Date change because I'm making sure Billsteagle comes this year. I'm [ __ ] 100%. And Marshall, he has no choice. No matter what's happening in his life, I'll make sure he's here. Hi John.

I mean, I love that. I'd love to like pull out my phone and be like, "Greg, look what the [ __ ] your bloodline is still doing, bro. Like, it's the shizz." [laughter]

Dude. But, okay, you know, with you being around as long as you have, you know, and really, dude, I feel like it's all about getting game passed down to the next generation, you know, if you have because one of the hardest things I feel like people need to understand, it's almost like the ball python game. You get to the point of being able to breed. We all know breeding ball pythons is easy. The hardest thing with ball pythons is having to sell your ball pythons. And right now I even seen some condro people who have stuff they're either just overly priced, but they can't sell their stuff, you know. Um, so it's not as is as is booming as the condro world is. It's still not like anyone could sell anything at any price. Um, like, you know, a lot of things do come in into factors and I'm curious like what you feel like people who are just now getting into their first seasons like what could they expect selling either outcross designer stuff, designer stuff, stuff from you, you know, like if they are if they bought a $6,000 snake from you, John, and they they get that snake to breed, are they allowed to price all their snakes at $6,000 now? Does that is that how that works? You know what I mean? [sighs]

Well, they're allowed to do whatever they want. Let's start there.

Technically. Yeah. Correct.

Definitely allowed. People are allowed to do whatever they want. I've sold people snakes. Well, I just I don't understand what like like when I price stuff sometimes I'll like bounce around ideas with friends and see what they think and like what do you think and I just try to come up with a number that I think is fair and I think about supply and demand and I think about the hard work I've put into my collection and you know, I do all of that kind of stuff. And so.

And then I have seen people that have taken snakes that I've sold them and turned around and um.

Like I've sold people like 10 grand really high-end males and then they produced offspring and they were pricing the unchanged babies at that. I was like, well, I mean [laughter] that was a changed male. Like that wasn't the number like I didn't.

You're selling a dream. [laughter]

Yeah. Like damn. So anyway, um, I mean, these were like really hot like a hot male and then, you know, how they paired, I'm like, damn, you know, and I sold those as neonates at, you know, a number a little bit less than that. So I was like, ah man, you know, but hey, I'm not going to call them and be like, I think you're overpricing your stuff. It's like, I don't I I think pricing and I literally get messaging every day. How much should I price this at? You know, this especially a lot of times are animals that came from me or my uh, you know, animals that I produced, that's such a tough conversation to have. It depends on so many factors. How fast do you need the money? How fast do you need to move it? How much do you want to keep it? You know, I would never ever ever tell anybody you've priced an animal too high or too low.

Right.

I don't give a [ __ ]. Yeah. [laughter]

Price it how you see fit. If it sells on the first day, you price it too low. And if it doesn't sold in six months, you price it too high.

Yep. And if you're.

Yeah. Yeah. That's it.

Yeah. That's it.

Yeah. So the ones.

I um I agree like I.

I think that um.

I think people have to kind of like ease their way. They have to build a reputation. Um.

There's a lot there's you know, there's a little bit more to it than just genetics and I have babies, you know.

Absolutely. I um.

Yeah, I think that they there's a lot more. It's just like anything that you're you're having to um build awareness around your trustworthiness and your reputation and your customer service and and so in the early days of that you may not be able to to you may not charge as much.

I agree 100%.

I think Bill's the first person who I saw like it hasn't happened a lot, but at least a couple times I seen Bill sell a snake to somebody, it turned a crazy [ __ ] OC and they [ __ ] made a few thousand on top of that snake.

Yeah. Um, I mean, have you seen it more than I? And I don't even think that bothers you, right, Bill? Like, [ __ ] go for it. Right.

Doesn't bother me one bit.

Doesn't bother me one bit.

Makes no sense to get rid of a snake like that, to be honest. I don't.

It makes no sense to get rid of a a two and a half or three year old male that looks bad ass and sell it for a couple thousand or a few thousand more than what you paid for. I mean, are you kidding me? You're going to make 10 times that the first time you pair it.

Sweet priority.

There's some snakes that they just in my groups, it's like once they cross over a certain age and a certain quality level, I'm like, "You just couldn't offer me enough." Like.

Someone's like, "Oh, [clears throat] man. Everybody's got a number." And I'm like.

"No, >> no, dude." Like, this again, this one's going to die here, bro.

Not again, you could price it at an incredibly crazy price, but it doesn't make sense for the buyer or for the seller. to sell it because there's no guarantee on the buyer's end that it's going to produce or even survive.

Yeah.

And and as a as a keeper, you know, I just know the the return on investment on an animal like that. So, it makes no sense to sell it. You know, some things I'm like.

It's just not good with big pockets and they want to buy something flashy. I'm like, uh, this snake would be just better served if it just stayed here. Like.

Sure. I just don't want to send it off to be killed. No, you just.

So, anyway.

No, I agree.

Yeah. I mean, you know, because, you know, as much as we love, you know, the money this hobby could bring. It's not about the money. It's about literally having the coolest [ __ ] condos on Earth, you know, or at least working your way up there.

Yeah, I'm trying.

Wait, hold I just want to say I got three of the baddest [ __ ] condro breeders on earth on this screen right now. And that that's [ __ ] pretty awesome to say. Like you guys all have the type of [ __ ] where like again, unless you're Bill. Bill will sell a [ __ ] snake all day every day. But [laughter] [ __ ] you guys have you know something that you stick to. And we all know Marshall stickler when it comes to selling any condro. It ain't happening. We don't we don't even know a possible date yet when he's going to have an available condro. We don't. And he has and he has stock which is crazy right Marshall? Got you got to remember MJ. I don't have a day job.

I get it, Bill. Your situation is so different, buddy. We get I get it. Okay. And you're years into this. Okay. Bill, you travel. You go.

Out of his 401k.

Yeah. Bill, [laughter] I'm gonna be Bill someday. That's all I'm looking forward to. You know what I'm saying? So, I get it. Um, but yeah, I think uh, you know, I had I just had Miguel on the show, a well-known ball python breeder, and he had somebody from South Korea all fly all the way to his house, offer him over six figures with for certain snakes that he knew he was about to breed that year. And to him, as much as six figures sounds a lot, it made no sense for him to let those snakes go. And right now in the ball python game, if somebody can make six figures, dude, the majority will do that in a heartbeat because it's ball pythons right now. But this Miguel's somebody who sees the big picture and I feel like it's the same with condro like you got to have a [ __ ] big picture that you're locked in on and nothing's going to ruin it. You know, you're going to you're going to pursue that dream.

Right.

And again, there's even no guarantee either. It's this [ __ ] up thing. It's like you can have all these plans, but [snorts].

I was sitting here thinking like the key thing that a lot of people lack and I was joking my and I was like, I don't even want to say this. I don't want to inspire.

Say it. Have focus. You know, if you're not focused, you're gonna, you know what I mean? Like, stay f like people that are like, they're just like here today and gone tomorrow and buy a yearling and well, this one's changing and then they can't stand it and someone offers some money and they sell and they're just like, man, [snorts] just get together a little group and stay focused, you know, and they're like, and that's where the success comes. And if you're working on a little project, stay focused on it.

Yeah. You know, it's I guess it's what happened.

Marshall is a perfect example. Just locked steady on the albino project and he's got a visual.

It's [ __ ] incredible, dude. That's.

Life commitment right there.

The idea that one day he could pair that visual and get 100% hits and.

And move the project forward. That takes focus. That project could have gotten in the wrong hands and been squandered by someone else.

Or Yeah. Be dead be gone.

Be gone.

No doubt.

And what's crazy the way you accomplished it, man. Like the the odds were [ __ ] not not in your favor. You know what I mean?

It took a patient keeper for for that albino project to be where it's been or where.

And and enough things happened to you where you could be like [ __ ] this [ __ ] dude. Like I'm so over it, but it never was an option for you, Marshall, which is why it's really hard to hurt your feelings in any department. [laughter] But okay, real quick on the topic of the albino, we still don't know if it's a male or female. Uh, Marshall, you you don't you still don't know?

Still don't know. No, my my buddy Jake uh Jake was over here last weekend. He was like, "Man, you want to sex the albino?" And I was like, "Yeah, I'm not ready to sex it yet." I mean.

Why why why.

It's coming up on two years old? I don't know. I don't know the weight, but yeah, it's coming up on two years old.

Hell.

And you would want to pair that to like what? For or like, you know, or or you do you even have a I mean, mind you, if it was a male, like if it was a male.

It was a male that uh I would try. I mean, next year would.

You bring try it right.

You should [laughter]

Throw him in there, let's see what happens.

Not it's actually not it in there now. Your biggest female, throw it in there. [laughter]

Trial trial by fire, right?

Throw all py on to it.

I [laughter] would love, you know what I mean? Well, there you go. That's a perfect example. I mean, like there's nothing to inquire about there with Marshall. He's got a lot of work to do. But I would love to see some continued success. And that would be really cool one day for there to be enough of those to get like a calico I mean or an albino. That'd be so calico albino.

Yeah. And to get to anyway, maybe in a decade or something, you know.

Maybe.

Maybe. But that'd be so cool.

All right, let's go around the horn. Wrap-up topic of the episode. Let's start with you, uh, Bill. Uh, anything you want to wrap up with, John, on tonight's, uh, episode?

Uh, I just got to ask John, um, what's the last thing you brought into your collection? And do you have your eyes on anything else that you would want to complement your breeding projects?

Well, the last thing I brought in is I got a snake from Dave from his uh, Splash Bock bred to the TSK or no, I'm sorry, the Tiger Stripe. So the TSK calico splash boak male that he had bred to his Rico produced bright yellow tiger stripe girl and you showed a picture of her that high yellow snake that you're like, oh, look at that flash shot.

Yeah. Yeah.

That snake and I call her Gold Digger and I got her to do wild like I want to like if Warzone would kick in, I want to breed like a black thing to her or just super freaky or like a bright blue snake to her or something.

When did you get her John? How long have you had her?

Um, maybe two years or a year and a half. Two years.

Okay.

Badass.

Anything else on your radio?

So, that's the last thing I've purchased. Ed is working on me. I might pick up a Which is funny. He's like, I was like, man, Ed, you know, my old Uzi ass over here, she might go out on me. Who knows? So, I've got I got him lined up on a female and then my damn female ovulates. I'm like, damn, now I'm about to have all my own baby, you know? So, I'm getting female probably from Ed.

Yeah, dude. Do that. Do that, please. Um, and let me know if he sells you another male. He's probably you're probably gonna leave with more than one snake for sure. [laughter] Uh, Marshall, what do you got for John?

No, I noticed that uh here recently you kind of cleared out some stuff with your uh your heel and your.

Have you streamlined everything? You got just condro emeralds now and that's it or.

Just condro and emerald? Well, I have a pair of Bolan's.

But I have warmed up to the idea I may part with those one day. And if anything, I'm just waiting to get past the I was kind of thinking I'd get past the first of the year just to move the sale over into a 2026 thing, but.

Um.

Sell the Bullets.

I might I'm not 100% sure. How old are the.

How old are they?

Years old. Oh wow.

How old?

Three or four years old.

Yeah, that's perfect. That's a pair. Let's.

Land some um small and medium some some medium rats.

Where'd you get them from?

We got them from Cam.

As like uh Dave and I we kind of like got a hold of Ryan Burke and started like a long time ahead of time. Put out the word.

Huh.

It's part of that group that Dave D had like or something like that. Didn't Okay. All right. Got a big group, but we we got like eight Neos and they were all un uh.

Un sex.

Uh, pre-shed pre first shed.

Oh wow. So they're brand spanking new and.

Dave got them and then um.

We ended up Brian Fisher got a pair and he ended up selling his pair and so anyway Dave sorted out the girls that he needed and let go of some males or something like that and then I'm I'm left with my pair.

Why would you want to part I'm just curious. Why would you want to part with your pair? So, one of the reasons I'm like, well, you know, they're taking up a lot of space and they hold a lot of value, so there's an expensive thing that's sitting there with a low likelihood or at least a lower likelihood of breeding.

Yeah.

I'm like, all right, so I've got a high, you know, there's risk involved in owning them and it's just kind of sitting there. And then the other thing, man, is Boland are always turned on. They are a very crawling around and man, they these things are um it's just sometimes it's a little aggravating. I'm like, man, I just, you know, changing their water. They're just.

You're ducking and dodging these things. [laughter]

They're spicy, huh?

They're spicy.

Oh, man. Yeah.

They're pretty large. They take up space. They hold a lot of value.

Um, I'd love, you know, there's a part of me that's like, well, I'm so close. Maybe I'll take a shot at breeding them.

That's how I was with my Mucan scrub pythons. Like, I was like I I was parting ways with all my big snakes. I'm like, I'm keeping these forever. And then as I get to the point of needing more space, I'm like scratching my head. I'm like, "Fucking Malucans need six foot cages now." I'm like, "Damn, dude." Like, you know, and what are the odds of these guys breeding like, you know, or you know, or just even the knowledge of breeding scrubs. I was just like, "Oh man, I'd rather put these in other people's somebody else's hands or excited more focused collection." Someone, again, I think if you're focused on things, you're you're better off. So anyway.

Well, that's the one thing that um, you know, comes to mind Justin Kabula, you know, when we visited facility, you know, we asked him, are you going to breed condro? You know, you condro? No, I'm going to stay focused on what I know.

Stay just, you know, focused on what's worked for me. I follow the same philosophy.

You know.

Just stay concentrated, stay focused, do what you.

I had I had geckos with my daughter and I found out no things like anything that eats like crickets or needs vegetables chopped. So I had this rule that it's got to be a rodent eater. It just has to eat rodents. All one time. Everything gets fed.

But then I had the heel and they got disqualified eventually because they just have a different breeding rhythm. Like you broomate them and then you breed them in the spring and they and I'm trying to do my snake thing over here and I can't be split trained. So I was like, all right, it has to be a rodent eater and it has to ride through the cycling and the normaly of the room and the room is set up to breed condro. So that could be probably ball pythons, I get. I don't know. Do you cycle them like do you cool them a little bit?

Yeah. Yeah. I just let the room do it. Like it's just kind of.

They would they would just mesh into a like they would be like, I like these temps and I like these lows and they would probably breed.

Fine. Yeah. They do just fine. I think there's somebody in uh CA Canada uh Corey uh was Corey Woods or something I forget anyways, but he he lets his room drop down to the 50s like it's literally goes all the way to the 50s and uh he discovered that once he had a power outage one winter and he had one of the best breeding seasons ever and so he just continued to do that and he always has high, you know, success rate when it comes to getting clutches dropping them that low. So yeah.

Yeah. So the basins kind of can stay because they they give me something different to observe, but I'm not having to like try to run my room in like two different ways and, you know, things are banging banging together, not getting along in there as far as my.

My groove, you know what I mean? I'm trying to focus on the main show, which is breeding contrast.

All right. Well, my last uh question for you, John, you know, where do you see things heading in the next 5 years? You've been a part of this hobby for a while now. Um, I think we've seen the biggest growth over the last couple years, but do you kind of predict this growth to continue? Do you think it's going to level out? Like, where do you really think things are headed for the green tree python?

I think it's going to continue to grow. I think I think it's going to continue to grow as far as popularity with the species. I think as we've.

learned more and more about keeping them clean and stuff. They're easier to keep alive and captive-bred stuff, so tame. Like I said, these ball pythons are fiery, man. And my chondros are just so easy-going. They're kind of like, you know, just pull them off of perches and whatever you need to do.

Um, so I think that as the more we encourage people to see that chondros are easy to keep and enjoyable to keep and not mean, so I think that that's going to encourage them. And then I also think that the designer stuff is like really just getting started. I think the designer stuff has got, you know what I mean? I'm not saying that we won't just see kind of rinse and repeat, like more extreme, like, oh, there's another extreme black snake and another extreme blue snake. But they will become more numerous, and then you'll see a bunch of, you know, crazy freaks. You know, chondros really are wildly endless as far as the colors and patterns and things. So a lot of room there to play around and have fun.

Yeah, like endless possibilities, man. It's almost like the ball python game, like it's just never going to end. Like you have, yeah. And I actually, I fully respect that about the ball python. It's almost like it's like too big for me to jump in. It's like, wow, a lot to learn, but I'm intrigued. I'm like, oh, I see it. They're like layering stuff and building things, and I love that. Super cool.

I feel like that's where this game is headed, especially with the lineages and, you know, getting like a Herby line to like a Bill Steagle stuff that he's done, meshing all that together. Like that's really going to be the future of this game, I feel like. And again, we're going to see freak shows. We're going to see nothing but [ __ ] that we probably never seen before. Um, so I'm excited.

Yeah, it's going to be cool. There's a lot of really cool snakes coming. What an amazing episode, man. Um, hopefully we see you again this year. I think we will. It's only January. I love having you on, John. Um, where can people follow things in life? I'm gonna come up to Tenley this year and stuff like that.

Yeah. To the trap fest, bro. Yeah, dude. Wait, hold on. So, Tilly, do you go to March or October? Which one do you prefer? Mostly October. Yeah, well, I'll be there for sure in October. We'll see you there, brother. Yeah, brother. Uh, hey, where can people reach you, John, in case anyone wants to hit you up or follow you?

Easiest thing is on Instagram, um, or Facebook on my page, Mid-Atlantic Arborals. Um, it looks like I'm having a nice year. I'll just tell everybody like, be patient. I'm not one that likes to, um, I don't like, I'm not, I know what you're trying to do is get a commitment, and I'm not trying to commit. So I'm trying to hatch my clutches and see what I get and look at my babies and figure out what I've got. So just, um, but I, you know, of course, I'm not keeping them all. So just understand some good stuff's coming and, uh, that kind of thing. So.

Take some deep breaths, people. Take some deep breaths. I posted some eggs and like everybody like shot me a message like, what are you cooking over there? And I'm like, and quit showing Zer pics when it was 18 months. All right, everybody. Have a good night out there. I appreciate you.

Uh, guys, do me a favor. Give it up. It's a wrap for John Ernie. Ladies and gentlemen. Thanks, John. Thank you, guys. Always so, so, uh, happy to be on and chat with you guys and, yeah, appreciate being here. You're the man, dude. Thanks so much, John. We'll talk soon. Okay. Yeah, brother. Cheers. See you, man. Great show, dude. Epic. What do you think, Marshall? That's great. John's always a pleasure to have on. He's definitely at the forefront of things and, um, his animals are amazing, top-notch, you know, up there with with anybody. Uh, like, like the way he, he's, you know, very detail-oriented, very, uh, uh, just a cool dude.

Yeah, I think, uh, I love the story of Freight Train, man. It was cool to get that like refresher, Bill. Um, but again, also shows shows your ties with some of the best people we have in the hobby. So, what did you think of tonight? Well, John's one of the goats. Yeah. He's a great ambassador to our community. He's well-spoken, produces great stuff. Yeah. What else could you ask for? I mean, I'm so glad he's a part of our community. I'm so glad he came on tonight. Um, he's just, he's one of the guys that I really, really respect in the community. I think his knowledge is, is, um, unmatched by anybody in our community. He's seen it all. He's done it all. Um, I just think he's really, we're so lucky to have him.

I agree, man. I like his demeanor. Cool, calm, collective, you know what I mean? And collective, not egotistical, down to earth. Um, lights. Yeah. Perfect audio, perfect video, no sound check. Unlike Marshall was [ __ ] you know what I mean? I hope Marshall took notes tonight. Listen, Marshall was [ __ ] spot on tonight. He was. I Marshall, you [ __ ] nailed it out of the park with your audio and your camera and even your questions, buddy. You killed it tonight, dude. I think it's the bi-weekly. I think I think it's the whole going bi-weekly is keeping this guy fresh.

I agree. Yeah, I agree. I was wearing, I was wearing them out. You're beating him down. You look forward to it now. You know, every two weeks it's like, uh, you're not, we're not struggling to find stuff to talk about. It's, uh, uh, I think, I think it's better. Okay, Marshall, speak for yourself. Okay. I was always having fun. I was I was never struggling with questions or I was never having. Well, you know me and questions. So, I'm just kidding, dude. All right, fellas. I love having you guys on. This is awesome. I'll see you in a couple weeks. For now, guys, follow Red Mount Herps and go subscribe to Phoenix Reptiles on IG. Bill, you're the man. Marshall, love you, man. Give it up to Bill Marshall, ladies and gentlemen.

See you, too. See you, too. Bye, guys. Have a good night. Thank you so much. Ah, man. What a bunch of awesome guys, man. All the way around. It was this is a legendary episode, you know, you know, being the freshest one on the screen. Uh, most wet behind the ears as far as anyone on the screen goes tonight. Uh, I don't know why I'm looking at the camera. My bad. Camera's not on. I don't want to talk about it. Coffee issue. But yeah, dude. Great episode. This is an episode I'll be playing back for sure. Uh, again, exactly what Bill said. Uh, John Arby, John John Herby, wealth of knowledge for sure. Uh, so guys, make sure you go give him a follow if you're not already. I'm surprised if you're not already following John Herby, but, uh, yeah, hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Make sure you find, uh, all the links to my sponsors in description below. Shout out to Mark Hager from the Texas, uh, from Texas Condros. Make sure you head over to TXondro on Instagram. Make sure you go to his website texascondros.com. Be on top of everything that Mark Hager has going on. And also shout out to the reptile perch. Number one purchase in the game, and that's a fact. So again, shout out to all my sponsors. Shout out to you for supporting the channel. If this is your first time watching, hit that subscribe button. Hit that like button. Drop a comment. Let me know what you like best out of this episode. And I'll catch you on the next trap talk.

Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors. Tonight's episode is brought to you by David Brahms from the Reptile Purge. If you have an aoreal species, you definitely want to make sure you are using a David Brahms design perch over at the reptile perch. You can get any size perch you want for any size aoreal, anywhere from hatchlings all the way from adults. Everything you see behind me is on a David Brahms designed PVC perch. So, thank you so much for the reptile perch for doing everything that you've been doing with these awesome affordable perches for people to take advantage of. And you can find David Brahms's website in the description below. Simply go to www.reptileperch.com reptileperch.com or just go to reptile perch on Instagram and you could also see many of David's awesome green python projects. He's also a highly successful green tree python breeder. Been looking up to for the last few years as well. So to have his support, really means the world to me. Thank you so much David Bronzo over the reptile perch.

Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors. For over a decade, we've pursued a singular vision, producing the finest breeding stock the hobby has ever seen. From carefully planned pairings to thoughtfully designed environments, every detail is considered. And when you bring one of our animals home, you're not on your own. We provide lifetime husbandry support every step of the way. Whether you're building your first enclosure or expanding your collection, we're here for you. Sundown Reptiles.