Transcription
Hi everyone, back at live in Miami and we're sitting down with Aslan Tashanov, DeFi tech lead, Deepbook and Miston Labs. Aslan, thank you so much for joining us. How are you doing today?
>> Thank you for having me. I am doing very good. Very excited to be here. Tons going on this this week and uh it's just the energy is just so good.
>> Yeah, you feel the energy. It sounds like an exciting event. And you know, we're here to talk to you about Deepbook and our our Real Vision audience, we're very familiar with Deepbook and Suite already, but for those that are watching that may have not heard of Deepbook, can you can you tell us what that is?
>> Yes. U Deepbook is SU's native liquidity layer. uh originally started with Deepbook Spot right the central limit order book that's fully on chain that is powering the sui defy ecosystem it is super easy to build on it has the deepest and the best execution quality for trades on the major uh assets and essentially it is used by almost all of DeFi protocols to plug into whenever they need liquidity
>> yeah and deep is such a you know it's it's such a big task to take right and you know liquidity you're dealing with liquidity Why did you why did you decide to build Deepbook and then why and then to advance from that why did you decide to build it on suite?
>> Okay, so originally I was on the market making side of things before I had joined Miston and I was very interested in markets in trading. I've always been uh into that kind of stuff and at some point I was like listen I want to be on the consumerf facing side. I want to build products for consumers, for apps, for ecosystems and I want to have you know build the best version of it. Onchain central limit order books have historically been very difficult to build. But Sui is the best blockchain for it because it is object ccentric which gives us a lot of parallelism and allows us to do a lot of transactions on Debook coming from our HFT background that was very important and is also very fast and it's also very cheap. All three of those are what you need to make a central limit order book work very well at scale.
>> Yeah. And and I love that you touched on that because I want to ask you a little bit because obviously you chose SUI, right? But like and you're building that central limit order book, but what does it unlock on on SUI that maybe wouldn't be available or or that opportunity wouldn't be there for you maybe on other chains?
>> On SUI specifically, uh the unlock is really the public good aspect of it, right? we're able to build this uh protocol in a way that serves the entire DeFi ecosystem. We really see ourselves as DeFi infrastructure more than a protocol if I'm being honest. So, it was important that we, you know, go to the chain where it is the easiest to build these things and these uh, you know, protocols are composable in a very intuitive way and suite is just so easy to develop on. We have some teams that are building on Deepbook that are able to go from 0ero to one in just like 2 3 months and they're on mainet launching their protocol. So the ease of building on SUI as well as all the other technical benefits that SU provides is really the the key differentiator between SUI and the other L1's.
>> Yeah. And you know, one of the things we've been we one of the themes kind of at this conference is just the innovation on suite and the speed at which they innovate and they're able to kind of adapt to the market, which is just truly impressive honestly and and and Deepbook is another example of that. So I want to kind of ask you, how has your infrastructure evolved from when you first started to where we're where we're at today?
>> Yeah, so we launched the central limit order book. That was 3 years ago, which is kind of crazy to think about, but it's already been 3 years since that's been lived and it's been powering sweet since then. We launched margin. That's that was earlier this year. That was our native leverage layer. So that allowed us to add leverage on top of Deepbook, the spot exchange, and now users can go long and short on uh spot, which is different than pers, right? So we are kind of catering to this fully onchain spot kind of markets. And now we are we just launched predict which is the third primitive that just launched 3 days ago. Now that one is a super exciting one. It is kind of uh it's really innovative and it's totally unique in the sense that you know the central limit order book and margin those are primitives that have been around right people know about them. We didn't like invent something new there. Yes, we built it purposefully for suite, but we didn't really invent the concept. Predict is the first one where we're really taking DeFi native innovations like the AMM, like the prop AMM or uh essentially all of the or the shared liquidity aspect of it that's powering all the different markets and those can only be done in DeFi. And that's one of the ways that we're innovating on that space. And predict is not only going to power all the prediction stuff, but it's really going to be our Trojan horse towards options, which is something that is really the the longer term vision with with this primitive.
>> Yeah, I love that you mentioned that and and honestly, predict is a very interesting and unique product or you know, introduction to the market. I want to talk to you kind of about the user how the user will interact with with that like how are they basically going to see that and interact with that through the application.
>> Okay. So that actually comes down to the second thing that we actually just announced earlier the Deepbook app which is our first app that's actually traderf facing. This is the first thing that we built for traders. Everything so far has been has been for builders and we did build a very flourishing ecosystem around it. We have the front ends, we have the market makers, we have the, you know, aggregators and the lending protocols that are all plugged in. And now for the very first time, we're building something for traders. And predict is going to be the first experience that we're going to unlock with the Deepbook app. And users and traders are now going to be able to essentially start with Bitcoin price action. They're going to be able to predict whether Bitcoin is going to go up or down, but they're going to be able to do it in a very unique way that they cannot do anywhere else at the moment.
>> Um, would you like me to like dive into all the details?
>> Absolutely would. Yes.
>> Okay. Okay. Um, I don't know how much you guys know about, you know, prediction markets. I'm sure everybody knows about prediction markets, but specifically the Bitcoin up down markets. Okay. Uh the key with these markets is that these are actually options markets. Okay, you're trading options contracts under the hood, which nobody is really thinking about it that way. Options hasn't really worked in DeFi before, but Poly Market specifically has really figured out a way to, you know, get that, you know, to the retail users in their hands. And that is very interesting and very unique. And we are really going to capitalize on that to get the initial, you know, retail user base. And what they're going to be able to do is not only trade up down markets the way that they are used to right now, but we're also going to allow them to select any strike to trade against. So right now you can only trade on pre-made markets on other venues. Uh you cannot like create a market on demand. With predict the contract prices are computed on demand. That means every single market is generated on demand whenever you go into trade. That means uh at any given time you can say hey I want to bet that the price of Bitcoin is going to go above $80,123 and that number can be just whatever you want that number to be and that can be an input and you're going to be you're going to be able to pay and and buy that contract and if you are right the payout is a dollar if you are wrong the payout is zero. Essentially, that's how it works. And within it, with this new liquidity model that we've developed that we've financially engineered that, by the way, we worked with a lot of like um you know, derivatives uh uh research teams as well as um risk curators to really make sure that this this model is robust. Um this model allows us to do a lot of cool unique things. It allows us to do range bets. So, if you want to bet that BTC is going to be between 80 and 85K, that is a contract on its own and that's going to be automatically available to you. And lastly, uh I mentioned margin earlier. Margin, the thing that we're going to we added leverage to spot to. We're using the same margin pools to now add leverage to predictions, which is something that really hasn't been solved yet. So we're solving continuous strikes uh native range and leverage all in one go. All three have not been solved. So this is the first product to market that solves all three. So I'm super excited about that. I think there I mean there's tons to go into there. But like that is uh generally the the overview there.
>> I I I almost I almost want to use it like right now. Is is this available for users to to when will this be available? Is it available now or how how can users kind of learn more about this?
>> Right now uh we launched testn net the primitive on test net 3 days ago and what I mean by the primitive is is the smart contracts along with the liquidity that power the protocol. We already have a lot of ecosystem builders that are integrating it as we speak and a test net version of the app is also going to be available within the next couple of weeks. So that's what we're doing on testn net. mainet is coming soon. We still have a lot of things to iron out, but it's going to be very soon. Couple of months, not too long. It's going to be in the summer. Okay. So, mainet is coming in the summer. And when we launch, you're going to get this really really awesome new unique experience that really no other venue has.
>> That's right. And then and then I love that you you went into depth with this because that's exactly what I was speaking about with the the the way that the the sweet ecosystem adapts and innovates. And you just I love that you just gave us a real use case live example happening right now. And and I also feel like you kind of gave us a glimpse into B the future of Deepbook and and kind of where this is all going. But I want to just ask you directly like where do you see Deepbook's future in the next few years?
>> Yes. Okay. The Deepbook app is going to be very important here. It's starting with just BTC up down markets, the binary options, but we will be adding more markets. Imagine being able to trade the S&P 500 up down, but 24/7. This is not available anywhere. There are no options markets for the S&P 500 outside of regular trading hours. So, that's going to be very unique once we figure out how to do all those things. But, we already are working on that and that's going to be a fast follow to the launch. Then we have to remember I'm I'm going to bring it back to the options piece here because yes we're starting with these up down markets but really the end goal is going to be longerdated options where institutions can come in and participate. Think of it this way. If we can figure out a way or once we figure out a way where we get that retail flow and the retail trading activity to also impact the longerdated expirations and allow institutions to trade along with retail within the same shared liquidity, we can enable unique things like you know having these BTC treasury companies go onto our platform use their BTC as collateral maybe even through Hashi right and write calls on that on that BTC and earn a premium. This is a new unique way that they can start, you know, earning extra APR on this uh on this asset that they're just holding, not really doing anything with, right? And um that is the ultimate vision. We got to get it to a place where the the liquidity is deep and we have longer expirations with a lot more participants. And once we get the institutionals in, we're going to create a whole new set of structured products around this thing that's really going to power not only just the, you know, short-term DJ trading activity, but also the long-term, you know, yield and passive yield and active yield and all these different strategies that you can do with with the underlying assets. You know, one thing that really impresses me with sweet because you just mentioned Hashi as well is like the flywheel that just within this ecosystem right there you have deep book that can you know benefit with hashy and I'm sure beep and like all these other you know protocols and and services that are within the sweet ecosystem. They're all like working off of each other and I think that's what makes it such a such a powerful thing.
>> You know, you you're totally right. And the thing with all these different pieces are it's when you're first building them, it's not immediately clear how they're going to be used in the end. When we first started Hashi, you know, over uh uh last year, right, it wasn't clear that, oh, we're going to also build options and then we're going to combine it. Right.
>> But we do know that if we have a central limit order book, if we have leverage, if we have some sort of options primitive, if we have Hashi somewhere else, if we have a BTC play somewhere else, if we have USD SW somewhere else, right? All of these things there will be a way to combine them in unique ways and we continuously discover these as we build and as we add these uh new components. So, you know, the the the thing here to take away is like we have to, you know, build the right primitives and the answers are going to start appearing after we've done it. Um I like uh Brian Armstrong said action produces information
>> and that is uh you know how we approach things. Let's build these things and the things that we can do with them will present themselves you know on their own.
>> Yeah. You know, truly exciting times at SUI. And you know, last question for you. What just in general of the SU ecosystem, when you just kind of think of it as a whole, what like actually like what really excites you for the future of where SUI is headed?
>> Yeah. Oh, sweet DeFi ecosystem. USD Suite. Okay. That is going to be a major major player for the ecosystem. Once we get USDC as the main stable coin, not only are we going to enable a totally new kind of, you know, yield source for the entire ecosystem, but it's also a security thing, right? We have way more control of like if if if something goes wrong, we can go in and quickly act and make sure, you know, that, you know, funds are safe, right? USD is going to be big. Uh gasless transactions, this one is going to be huge. I think this one's going to be a game changer because now all stable coin transfers are going to be completely free. Not 0.00001 free. Your accounts do not even have to have any suite in them for you to just be able to transfer them to any any address. And this I think is going to be really the uh it's going to unlock the floodgates to all these institutions that can come in and now you know move money around with instant settlement and do it all for free. That's going to be a huge one. And again, we have all these the other pieces in play, right? We have the agentic payments that we're working on. Beep as you mentioned earlier, right? They're working on agentic payments. That's going to be huge. Gas's transactions, gases transfers with Agentic Payments. Now, these agents can just, you know, do whatever they want and move money however they want. And so so those pieces are there for the longer term, you know, payments and getting the dollar working in the ecosystem. And then we have Hashi being able to collateralize the strongest asset in the world. And then we have predictions and the options on top of it, being able to do all sorts of interesting structured products with it. So I think we are building all of the pieces necessary to really win onchain finance in the future.
>> Well, exciting times. We're really excited to see where SU is going and Deepbook as well. Uh we'll be checking it out. Thanks Oelon for stopping by and uh taking some time to to talk to us.
>> Thank you so much for having me here.
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