Is He The Real Deal?: Samuel Leeds

I'm probably the best sales person in the UK. No one can sell like me. That's a bold statement, and it just blew up. There must be people in the audience who employ who go, "Run to the back of the room to get people up and run in." Never! You promise me, yeah, I passionately sell my products. Get over it. I just want to know this business process because there's lots of noise out there. Why is there so much controversy around you and Rob Moore in the property world? I can't speak for Rob. Kicked his ass, knocked him down in the first round. He was on his like a little "Oh, but I had a headache." I'm like, "Of course you had a headache, I smacked you in the head." I think, "Man, get off stage, man." What, what, what? You play the way you are with it. Some people buy into it. I personally wouldn't buy into it. I think you would, though. I don't think I would. I think you would. I don't think I would.

[Laughter]

Samuel, welcome to the show, mate. Thank you very much. It's great to be here. Yeah, finally, we made it. We did. I got the wrong day last time. I was just like, literally, it was the summer, wasn't it? And I was enjoying Sandbanks. And I messaged, I was like, "Hey man, are you ready?" Like, "What?" It was right. Let's roll all the way back. Where did you grow up and how did you become such a colorful and controversial property developer?

Well, I grew up in Warley, which probably didn't help me because then when I got into the business world and all the etiquette, I didn't understand the etiquette at all. I had to have etiquette training about three years ago to learn basic things about manners and forks and how to sit and how to... So, um, yeah, grew up in Warley, which is near Birmingham. And, uh, failed in school quite badly. Always on the brink of getting expelled. Parents split up when I was seven years old. And, um, that was kind of like my background. And now I'm a property developer. I run a training.

So when you said your parents split up at seven, who did you end up living with? Your mom or your dad? My mom. Your mom? Okay. And what was the, what was that? What was school like for you at that time? You're saying you were getting close to getting expelled. What sort of personality were you at school?

Uh, um, short attention span. And I went to, my mom's a Christian, and I'm Christian as well. But she, she wanted to homeschool me because me and my brother and my sister, she just didn't like the way the schools were going. But instead of homeschooling, it was like an in-between. She found this little Christian school where like a bunch of people had kind of come together. So there was only, I think, about 15 people, 15 kids. So I went into this little bubble of a school. So it wasn't, it was a school, but it kind of wasn't. It was kind of like a cross between homeschool and, um, an ordinary school. And, yeah, it was just, I just didn't like it. I mean, they were all, all the kids were a bit strange. Probably I was the strangest. But it was just horrible, you know. I didn't particularly, I didn't particularly enjoy it.

What was your personality like at school? Um, as I say, short attention span. So I didn't really, I couldn't focus. Um, I used to get into trouble, trouble. Um, bored, lethargic. Um, a bit of a loser. Wasn't particularly popular with boys or girls. Um, didn't have any aspirations to be successful. Like, if I'd have known how my life would have turned out, I wouldn't have. Like, I had no aspirations to get into property investment or to become a business owner. Um, so, yeah, just not, not, not particularly great.

So where, so you're going through school, I can see that. What age were you and you had a spark in you going, "Right, I need to want or go and earn a pound note. I want to get into the property world?" Um, it didn't really happen. I mean, I used to do pounds when I was like 14, started doing like paper rounds and stuff like that. And I remember getting a little Bradford & Bingley book and every day I'd like check my amount in it. And then when I was maybe 15, just turned 15, I remember there was, I, I'd hit £1,000 and I felt quite proud of that. Like, "Oh man, £1,000 in my bank, you know, from paper rounds and stuff." And I showed it to a teacher. I just said, "Hey, you know, look, that's that's my money." I was quite proud of it. And, and I thought she might be like, you know, "Oh, money's bad, you shouldn't be making money." But she didn't. She said to me, "That's more money than I've got." And I think that kind of gave me a little bit of validation. Like, "Oh man, there is something I'm good at." Yeah, I'm not good at math or English or science or chemistry or whatever, whatever. But I got more money than the teachers. That, I think, is the earliest memory. And then my mom got me a book by Richard Branson called "Screw It, Let's Do It." And he's got ADHD, dyslexia, stuff like that, I think, as well. So that was like, "Oh, wow, that was, oh, maybe I can get into business." So I think that was a very, that was the earliest memory I can have where I actually had some kind of sense of, "Maybe I'm good at something."

Yeah. And when did it come about when you made that first leap of getting your first property or any opportunities around? What, how old were you?

Well, um, I left school at 16. I got my first house at 17, but I was too young to, I was too young to actually buy it and, and get everything in my name. So my mom remarried when I was like a teenager. I think I was like 12, 13. So my mom's husband hosted the property in his name and said, "When in a few years, you can switch it over." So that was like my first investment.

He didn't, he didn't give you any money for it? He just said, "Hey, I'll host it." You know.

What do you mean, "host it"? Who put the deposit down for it? It was 100% financed by the bank, was it?

Yeah.

What year were we talking roughly? Um, that went through in March, 24th, 2009.

2009? Yeah. I was 17. It was like the month before I turned 18. So he put it in his name and then switched it over to your name? Yeah. When you hit 18? Well, that was the plan. But he just stayed in his name for a few years. Okay. But yeah.

And was that, was that the first bit of business you thought, "Hold on a minute, I can earn a..."? Yeah, yeah. Because that house, I rented it out room by room, and that paid me like a grand a month. Yeah. Which, which was like, "What? Crazy." You know. So, so, so that was the first, you know, like taste.

And what was your journey after that then? Was there anyone, did you have a mentor? I know you said you didn't have a fatherly figure.

Well, I did. I did have a father. My parents split at seven, I lived with my mom, but I still saw my dad. Okay. In fact, my dad made me work for him.

Was he a good mentor to you, your dad?

Um, yes, in one sense. Like, he taught me about business and being, you know, he used to, um, he was a magician. So he used to do parties.

Is that right? Yeah. Quite. Did you get into doing any magic? I was forced to. Yeah. I wanted to be a doctor, but he made me a magician instead. He made you? What sort of magic did he do? What sort of magic did he teach you?

Um, so he used to do, um, like card tricks and children's shows, discos. Not just magic. We, we did the full works. Discos, balloon making, everything. That was my job.

For how long? Three months. Did you enjoy it? Nope. No. And then when I got that first house, that paid the same as working for my dad without having to do much work, right? Yeah. Yeah.

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So how did you roll on from there then? What did your journey, how did your journey go from having that first property?

So they had that first property, um, then I want, I was like, "Man, I just need to do this again and again and again." But you couldn't do it because the 2009, the prices were crashing, lenders were getting really risk-averse. So then I started doing, um, property but in a more creative way. So for instance, I would buy a house, but I would agree to pay for it in five years.

You'd buy a house, you agree to pay for it in five years? One, well, let's say, bear in mind now, it's 2009. Let's say you bought a house in £200,000. Not, let's say, I'll tell you my first one. Yeah. Tell me.

So my first one was in Bloxwich. The guy's name was Steve. He bought it in 2007. He bought it for £95,000. He's got a big mortgage on it because he bought in 2007 when banks were lending out loads of money. Yeah. Now the value of the house has dropped, but the mortgage is still high. Okay. So he's in negative. He's got bad tenants trashing it. Now he wants to sell, but he can't sell 'cause he's in negative equity. So I'll say to him, "I'll buy it in seven years for the price you want, but I'll pay you in seven years."

How much did he want? He wanted £81,000.

£81? 'Cause that was the price of his mortgage. Did you get it? £81. Yes. Okay. So how did you get it? How did you then pay him back in five or seven years?

Because I've got the option to buy it for £81. Yeah. I over seven years. But then the mortgage payments are £145. But I rented it for £550. Okay. So I'm saving up that £340 a month, being super disciplined, locking it away. And then after seven years, that £30,000 now can buy the house. That's the deposit. Yeah. By the time I bought the house, obviously, it's more than £81 now. So I had a lot of those.

Yeah, fair play. And how many did, how did you grow your business then? So did you get into property training courses? That's later. Or later. Way later. Yeah. So what year are we, what year are we talking or we at now then when you got your first property? 2009.

And tell me your journey from 2009 to sort of like 2015, 2016. Yeah, in the property world.

So the training started 2016. So from 2009 to 2016, so the first couple of years of going into property was getting lease option agreements. I bought at that house that I told you about. Um, I was also controlling, I set up like a management company, so I would manage people's properties. So I was making a living, I was doing okay.

Who taught you all of this? I went on a few property courses. Oh, so you went on other people's courses to find out how to do it? Yeah. Whose courses were they? I went on many, many courses. But, um, any that stand out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, Simon Zutshi. Yeah. I don't know if you've heard of him. I know Simon Zutshi. Yeah, yeah. I went on his. I had a nightclub up in Birmingham. And, and he was, he got me into this club. We had that for about three years. Threw parties there. Yeah. So he, he got... Blond hair? Yeah. I tell a story about Simon. When I was 17, just before I bought my first house, I hadn't even bought that house yet. I'd found it. Yeah. I'd negotiated it. But I was thinking, "I'm too young." H. Simon phoned me up. And I was a teenager living with my mom. And he's a multi-millionaire. Spent 45 minutes with me on the phone, putting together a plan and helping me get my first house. Quality. So respect to massive. This is like 20 years ago. That I had a nightclub. It was called DNA. It was 2,700 people. And Simon called me up and said, "You want it?" How weird is that? I haven't even thought about that book for 21, 22 years. Yeah. He's still. So he, so you learned how to do what you're doing now by Simon? Not, not just Simon. Um, many. I went on many courses. Well, well, for a start, um, Simon was, was, was one of my mentors. I also had a guy called Tony Crook, who I met at BNI, who's a business. What's BNI? Business Networking International. Yeah. Um, so he helped me. Doug Drury, from Executive Training Consultancy. Like, I was paying thousands to these guys, even though I was a teenager. Yeah. And that's one of the things people judged me for at the time. Because people will happily spend £20, £30 grand going to uni. Yeah. And that's cool. But when I was doing this, my friends and family were going mad because they're like, "Why are you spending thousands of pounds learning from Simon Zutshi?" Is he going to give you an accreditation at the end of it? Are you going to get something from the government-backed? No. Doug Drury, all these people. Who are these guys? They're not backed by the government. You're not going to get a degree. You're not going to get anything, any accredited certification. So that was the judgment I was having from my friends and family at the time. But what, what, what I, at the time, how I saw it was, you're spending £30 grand to get a degree to help you get a job. I don't want a job. I want to be in business. Yeah. And if I go to uni to learn business, I'm going to be learning from a dude who's not in business. Yeah. And people teaching business at university aren't in business. No. They're on £30 grand a year. So you're paying £30 grand to learn from a guy who's reading from a book written 20 years ago. Yeah. Who don't know nothing about marketing. I hear. Yeah. You don't know anything about. But people, the judgment I got, yeah, from, from that, from my friends and family, like I was the laughing stock. You know, it's like, "What are you doing?"

How did that make you feel at that age? Because if you are 17, 18, you're not going to be fully secure in yourself. You're not going to be fully mentally strong. You're going to be, "Am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the wrong thing?"

Did you know in your heart of hearts you're doing the right thing? No. I felt embarrassed. Yeah. Yeah. I remember my cousin saying to me in a public environment. I was, I was 17. He said, and I was in a suit. I don't even remember why I met him now, but brief meeting, had a little brief thing. And I was in a suit. And he looked at me and he said, publicly, in front of people, he goes, "So when are you going to actually go get a proper job?" You know? And I felt embarrassed. I know, I now I'd have a million answers. But at the time, I was just a bit like, "Oh, how awkward." Um, so, yeah, no, I was embarrassed for sure.

So, so what did you learn from these courses? What are the three big things you learned from these courses?

Um, well, I learned about the basics of property investment, how to make, how to find good deals. Yeah. That's the first thing. Um, I learned that the marketplace doesn't discriminate, people do. Because I had a chip on my shoulder about being young and uneducated and whatnot. But actually, if you're good at what you do, you're going to be able to make money. Because people might be racist, people might be prejudiced, people might be ageist. But the marketplace isn't. Um, and I learned how to sell. I think I'm probably the best sales person in the UK. No one can sell like me. That's a bold statement.

Well, I mean, I'll give you a run for your money, maybe. Maybe. It's hard. It's hard. How do you, how do you define it? It's interesting. But I'm very good at sales. Yeah. And I think everything in business is around sales. Well, everything in the whole world revolves around sales. Yeah. Yeah. And sales is marketing. I think if you know how to sell, yeah, and you can promote and you can market, you've got that in the locker, you can, you can get a job anywhere or you can create your own business anywhere.

So tell me your journey through that then. How many properties did you start building up? Are you a property developer? Are you buy, let, sell, do up, knock down houses?

Yeah. So I wasn't a property developer until sort of like much later. Um, I was, I was, I guess you could say a property investor, but also mainly a property entrepreneur. Because a lot of what I was doing was about managing properties. I was also finding property deals and I was packaging them, flipping them, and not even quite flipping them, introducing them, yeah, to investors. Because I didn't have the money or the resources to be able to buy it, do it up, sell it. But I do have the resources and the knowledge to find it, yeah, introduce it and say, "Hey, I've got this deal. Sign this non-disclosure agreement and I'll show it to you." And then you've got one hour to make up your mind.

What was your, what was your movement then from 2011 to 2016?

My church kicked me out in 2011. Were you happy with that? No, I was upset. But I, I got, I was basically asked to leave my church. Why? Because the reason, there's got to be something deeper than just going, "You're earning money, you got to leave." The reason that they gave was, "Did you try to buy a church, rent it back to them?" Now, now you see it, now you don't. The magician sees it. The reason that they gave for kicking me out of church was the actual reason that they gave was that I was overzealous and lacked wisdom. That was their, that was their reason. I was 20.

Do you think they were right? Well, I was definitely overzealous and lacked wisdom. But is that a reason to kick you out of a church? I don't know. I don't, I got no clue either. I don't, I don't even know what overzealous means. How can zealous be passionate? How can you be over passionate? I don't know. But I went to Bible College for three years, six days a week. And I studied my, I did my dissertation in biblical economics. So I studied my money from the Bible and grappled with the idea of being a Christian and also being a business person. And when I left Bible College, I became a millionaire within two years because I was so released from the guilt of making money. I realized, I realized actually, the more money I make, the more I can help people. The more freedom I have. You can't serve God and money, but you can serve God through money. 'Cause money is just a tool, you know.

So you said you became a millionaire. How did you become a millionaire?

Deal sourcing, packaging, and selling deals to investors.

What does a millionaire mean to you? Because it's very clear. It's clear to you. Is it? Because you can ask this question to 20 people, and you'll get 20 different answers. 19 will be wrong. Yeah. A millionaire is very simple. It's where if you add up everything you own and take away all of your debts and everything you owe, whatever's left is your net worth. If your net worth is less than a million pound, you ain't a millionaire. You might have a million pound worth of property, but if you've got mortgages on them, absolutely.

So, so the way I was a property millionaire. I had over a million pound portfolio way before then. But I didn't become a cash net millionaire till I was 25.

So your version of a cash net millionaire is a million pound in the bank, as well as your property? It's a million pound net. Yeah. So if you've got a property worth £100,000, but you've got a £990,000 mortgage, that's £10,000. Let's keep going till we get to a million. Yeah. Yeah.

And what was that? What was the movement after that then? You become a millionaire. How did you grow your business and what made you want to go and set up courses?

Well, when I became a millionaire and when I left Bible College, I also in 2014, I set up something called Training Kings, which was a Christian business networking group. And I set that up specifically for people that were from the churches because I wanted to tell them the message of, "Hey, if you're an entrepreneur and you're in the church and you're feeling guilty, let's meet. Yeah. Let's come together. Let's help each other not only practically and with training, but also morally and support." And I, I wanted to create something because there's so many people in the churches that are business people that are banged over the head and told, "You should be on the Sunday school." Yeah. Rather than being released into the marketplace to be good, compassionate entrepreneurs. Mmm. So I set this group up, which went nationwide. I had 14 branches across the UK. I had full-time staff and everything. Lost a lot of money doing it, but I never intended for it to be profitable. It was literally just, I wanted to run a network to train to support people, like-minded people. It wasn't even limited just to Christians. We had Muslims and Sikhs, and we even had people that weren't religious at all that just vibed and liked, you know what, I'm not. They would even say, "I'm not Christian, but I, I want to, I want to make money and I want to help people and I want to be." So I just seemed to attract these types of people. So we had 14 branches all across the UK. Um, and then my business mentor said to me, Tony Crook said to me, "This isn't sustainable. You're losing four grand a month putting on all these events. You need to charge these people to be part of the network." And I'm like, "I can't really charge them anymore." We were charging them like £40 a month membership, and they could go to unlimited network 14 groups across the UK. So I said, "I tell you what, what I'll do. How about this? How about I'll start putting on courses around marketing, sales, business, property investment." And then people from within the organization can pay a couple hundred pounds to come to one of the additional bonus events. So I did a marketing course, sales course, all these different courses. But property was just the one that was the most popular, that I loved the most. And then in 2016, after a couple of years, I just thought, "You know what? I'm going to set up a business specifically for property training." Because I believe in doing what works.

What was that business called in 2016? It didn't have a name. Well, obviously it did because it was registered at Companies House, but it was just called Samuel Leads Limited.

Okay. No, not the company name, but what was the actual brand called? It didn't have one. It didn't have a brand. So you were, so how are you promoting? What were you promoting? The website was propertyinvestorshow. I don't know what the brand was. The brand was me. Just like, "You want to learn from me? Yeah. And you want to see what I've done and how I've done it? Come and spend a day." That was it. And then people paid, and it just blew up.

Did it? Yeah. Like in what way? Give an example. Millions of pounds. Just what? Millions of pounds of turnover. People paying to come onto your courses. Yes. It blew up, bro. How quick?

Give me an example. 2016. You must have, how many events did you do in 2016?

Well, there's turnover and there's profit. Yeah. I didn't make any money for four years doing training. From 2016. From, no, from my Training Kings days. Okay. So from 20, 2014, 2015, 2016, even 2017, there was barely any, there was barely any profit. And then you flipped it over to a full-on business. 2016, the training business, full-on business. But this is what people don't understand. Starting a business is hard, and it's slow. Yep. It takes time. So you have to be aggressively patient. Right? And if you can get that skill set under your belt and know it's going to take a thousand days to break the back of something, you're alright. But a lot of people give up too early. My brother tried to make me quit the training in 2018. 2018, I teamed up with my brother. And at the time, what year was that for you? This was 2018.

No, but what year, what number year on your business journey? Maybe nine years?

No, no, no. On the business of doing the training course? Two years.

Two years? Yeah. And he was like, because I was doing deal sourcing, I had a letting agency, I had a project management company, I had my property investment business. I also started just doing my property development in commercial, commercial property. Training Kings. I was then also on top of the Training Kings, I was running out my property training. He was just like, "We're only allowed to keep two. We can't be doing all these businesses because it's too confusing." And to be fair, my brother, he'd, um, done quite well in business. My dad had left, gone to Brazil. He'd ran with the entertainment stuff. He had hundreds of entertainers. He'd made a success of the magician stuff. So when we teamed up in 2018, I was like, "Okay, well, which ones do we keep?" And he wanted to get rid of the training because he said that it was there, you don't have lifetime value of customers. Yeah. They'll buy a course and then that's it. And it's too focused on me. You can't really systemize it. So he wanted to focus on the deal sourcing instead, because that's a bit more like, long-term.

What do you mean by deal sourcing? Deal sourcing is where you introduce properties to investors because these investors, we had, we had a list of investors, a few hundred, that were just buying deals again and again, every six, 12 months, just keep buying, buying, buying. That was making about 30 grand a month. So he was like, "Let's focus on that."

Net profit? No, turnover. But the overheads were quite low. Working on 10%, 20%? No, no, no, no. More like 80%. Okay. Yeah. 'Cause that, so you didn't have many staff and stuff. It was just literally you, sourcing, one member of staff at the time. Yep. Yeah. So, so, so he wanted to focus on that. But in the end, we sold most of the businesses. But we kept the property training, and we kept the property, obviously, the investing and the development. We kept, we kept that. So I've since gone into other businesses. But that was the main focus. And then we blew up. 2018, 2019, we blew up massive.

Give me an example. What do you mean by blow up? I mean, like, a thousand people in a room every week to come see you. Yeah. How much a ticket? Oh, no, not, not much. Like maybe a pound. So you're going to get a thousand people in a hotel room giving you a quid? You got all your overheads. Yeah. It's a loss leader. Where is a loss?

So what were you doing to sell to get money from those thousand people? How does it work?

Okay, so I'd run, there'd be a thousand people there on the main stage, chatting all day on stage, teaching, condensing everything I know about property into a day. And at the end of the day, saying, "If you want to learn from me and do more, I've got this mentorship, I've got this, I've got this advanced program, blah, blah." And then a percentage of them would buy. Maybe, uh, more like a thousand, 2,000. And then that then subsidizes the cost of the hotel room. Okay. So now you're at break-even. Yeah. But then you've got like an inner circle mastermind, which is at the back end of the back end. And that's where the money is. It's just the shows. When you're on stage, people on stage, and you go, "Right, after 10 hours of chatting, getting people on board, and then people go up the back of the room and sign up for two grand." Right. Okay. Yeah. So I've, I've seen a couple of these. Yeah. But I'm the best. Are these the, are these the ones where you'd be on stage, go, "And it's not 10 grand, it's not seven grand, it's not five grand, it's two grand. It's like selling sausages at a marketplace." You don't think it's a bit, you don't think it's a bit muggy?

Not really, no. I, I think it depends how you do it. So there's a few rules. The first rule is you can't lie. Yeah. So, so you can't say, you know, "Oh, normally it's it's 20 grand, but for you today, it's just going to be a grand." You can't do that.

So how do you do it then? What, how I do is I, I, I don't, um, I actually don't knock down the price. I give away bonuses. So what I do is I'll say, "I've got this program which is two grand. This is what you get. Blah, blah. We've also got an online version. We've got this, we've got this, we've got this, we've got this, we've got this." And create a stack. And then if I'm doing an offer, which I always do, if you come to one of my one-pound, I'm going to make an offer. And my offer is going to be, um, "For anyone to register for this, you'll get this for free, this for free, this for free, this for free."

Do you not feel that there are people in there who are coming for a quid, going, "Do you know what? I could become a millionaire if I follow what Samuel leads does. This could be amazing. I could earn under a grand a year." And, yeah, "My name's Karen, and I got two kids, and I work at the supermarket. I'm going to pay a quid and spend a day of my life there." And then they're so mesmerized in it and caught up in the sales chat at the end of it, they get to the end going, "The back of the room, sign up for two grand."

Um, no, no, I, I don't think so. Um, firstly, all of our advanced training is on the website. Yeah. So when they come for a pound, that, that they know that there's, there's going to be advanced training. Secondly, there's a ton of value on that day. The sales pitch is like 20 minutes, and it's a full long day with me. Yeah. It's not like I just have some of my trainers and then I quickly come on and do a sale. Like I went to, um, Robert Kiyosaki's program when I was a teenager. I was like, "Oh man, I'm going to meet Robert Kiyosaki." I got there, he wasn't there. It was just a big long sales pitch. I went down to see Grant Cardone, Gary Vee, Tony Robbins. They ain't there. So when these guys are paying a quid, I'm there all day. So if you come just for a pound to spend the day and you learn and, and you get all the information and you leave, and you've, and it's bettered you in some way, and you've enjoyed it, you've done a bit of networking, you've seen me, we've grabbed a photo, awesome. Of course, I'm going to sell my product, and I'm going to sell it the best I possibly can sell it, in the most attractive way, in the most compelling way I possibly can. Um, I'm going to, I'm going to do that ethically, and I'm going to use stats. I'm going to show people what's what. Do I think it's muggy to be passionate about your product and to sell it? No, I don't think it's muggy at all. What's muggy? I, I think what's muggy is not to deliver. That's number one. Yeah. Is not to deliver. Number two. Well, no, in fact, number one for me, muggy is someone's on stage going, "It's 10 grand. It's not 10 grand today. It's not six grand today. It's not four grand today. It's two grand. Get yourself to the back of the room." It's the best. You're going to have a lot of Karens and Sharons and Collins in there just going, "Oh, okay. I'll go to the back of the room and sign up."

There must be people in the audience who you employ who go, "Run to the back of the room to get people up and run in." Never! You promise me.

I promise. So you've never plotted people, members of staff, to say, "When we say two grand, get to the back of the room. When you see eight people get up straight away and run to the back of the room as if like it's the last packet of chips?" I've never, ever, ever, ever done that. And I would never have to do it. Would any of your staff do that? No. And none of my staff sell from stage anyway. Well, apart from one guy. But no, because that's not, if they're my staff, they're following what I've trained them to do. Why would I get someone to? No, I wouldn't have to do that. Because the offer's good. People want it. People sit there, they hear my offer, and they go, "Yeah, that's a good offer." And they register. I'm not going to try and have trickery or no. I've never done it and I never would have.

You ever, you've ever, you're older now, and you know, when you get older in business, you get wiser and you understand a bit more. When you're doing these courses and earning, getting the million quid and the two million quid, there must have been moments you look back on and go, "You know what? That was a bit cringe what I did there." Was there anything that springs to mind?

Yeah, I mean, even if I look back on my YouTube channel, at the first videos that I did. I think it's cringy watching myself, not because I'm doing anything wrong, but because I was bad at it. You know, I'm sure if you watch your first interview that you ever did on your podcast, you watch it, you'll be like, "Actually, that was a bit rubbish." So in that way, yes. Do I look back and cringe because I did anything that was like immoral? Absolutely not. I, I started my training business from the heart of Christian business networking. Not, "I want to try and do this to make money." I didn't make money for years doing training. I lost money.

I totally see your business model. I totally see your business model. I get it. I just think that people can get clawed into something they weren't knowing they were going to get clawed into. But, but I also understand if someone's parting with two grand, it's up to them. They're an adult. They're going to part with two grand. It's your choice. And listen, if someone's, "Oh my gosh, I'm so regretful. I just got home and I wish I hadn't." Then we'll refund them. You know what I mean?

Like, what would happen if someone hasn't got the money to pay on the day? What would any of your sales staff do?

It's a good question. Um, if they haven't got the money for it, then we would down-sell them onto a cheaper product. So, in other words, let's say we've got a £2,000 offer, and they say, "I can't afford it. I haven't got two grand." Then they'll say, "Okay, what do you have?" "Oh, you got £10?" "Maybe you should, you should read this book." "Oh, you've only got, you got £500?" "Okay, maybe we got this online thing." So that, that, that's generally what the sales guys would do, assuming that the person wanted or needed it.

I mean, I teach sales. I'm good at sales. Your sales guys, were they on commission? Yes. So you know they're going to drive and get these deals over the line for people going to the back of the room.

Oh, yeah. I, I mean, if I've done the sale, they're not on commission. But if they do the work, then they get commission.

How, how do you know, like you're saying on stage, it's me, I'm the main person. If people are going to buy into me, they're going to buy into me. How do you know what your sales staff are, how would you know that, how your sales staff are acting to people to squeeze people to get the money out of their bank account straight away to swipe that card and go, "Out, the money's in the bank. Yeah. There's your pamphlet, there's your book, there's your video, and we'll be in contact you soon."

Well, because we'd get complaints. So if, if we had a lot of people complaining after the sale, "Oh my gosh, I signed up, I wish I hadn't." Okay, let's have a discussion. Who was it that sold to you? "Oh, it was Stephen." "Oh, what did he say?" "This." And we got, yeah, then we, all right, Stephen, there's a common denominator. You know, we, all of our staff, especially our sales people, are recorded as well. Not the events, because that's a bit hectic trying to wire them up, but like phones and stuff, they're recorded. So, yeah, they're trained well. We have a philosophy in our business, which is we want to create raving fans. We're not trying to, we're not trying to, there's got to be a culture within a company. The culture within our company is not, "Let's try and squeeze every penny and make as much money as possible." The culture is, "We want to create raving fans." Yeah. We want to train people up. We want to help them become successful in property. If someone comes and says, "I can't afford it. Oh, I'm absolutely skinned. I haven't got any money. I've maybe could borrow a couple hundred pound off my friends or family." We'd say, "Well, maybe come back in six months." Not trying to, you know. Now, I'm not saying every single person from our company always thinks and feels that way, but that's the culture. That's the way they're trained. And that's generally the way that they.

What was the, what was the, have you had knock-on effects of people complaining?

Very few. Very few. I mean, I'm not saying we've never had any complaints ever, but we haven't really.

What sort of complaints would people come back with, do you think, or have done? Customers, you mean? Trolls? Or no, no, no, no. Just people who have gone and bought the course and gone, "Oh, I was sold something and I want my money back." Or, "I didn't get my money back and I've parted with 10 grand." Or have you had any of them?

I'm not going to say we've never had any, but I will say it's very rare because as a company, we're very reasonable. So if somebody's unhappy, we will put it right. Yeah. You know, so, and also, we're, we're always learning and improving and making our training and our products better. Um, so, yeah, I mean, if you, if you spoke to our current, all of our current customers that are on our training and whatever, and said to them, "How's it going? How do you guys feel? Do you guys want a refund, by the way?" They'd be like, "No, we're loving it. It's incredible."

No respect, respect you there because I've seen the reviews. The reviews you've got on there on Trustpilot are absolutely fabulous. But going through any type of business, you make mistakes. True. You know, and what I'm intrigued to find out is when you had that reporter undercover report coming in filming. We had that many times. You had that many times. How did that make you feel? And what did they find out?

Um, I think the media are biased. You know, so we, we've, we've, we've had, you know, we've had quite a lot of articles in in the newspapers and shows and stuff like that. Also, interestingly, um, bad news travels faster than good news. Yeah. I've been in the newspapers, national newspapers, and on TV and whatever, countless times, like hundreds of times. I've been in the papers, and there might be 1% that have been negative, and everyone remembers the negative. "Oh, weren't you, didn't you have a story five years ago that was negative?" What the heck, man? Yeah. But since then, I've had a thousand positive. Um, so, and it's the same with reviews, you know. You can look at reviews. You can see I've got thousands and thousands of reviews, and over 90% of them are genuine, positive, happy customers. You can look at the one or the two that weren't happy. You can't please everybody all the time.

How did that make you feel when you know there's an undercover reporter in there? That lady who did the BBC undercover report, and she had a film, and then she went up to the ran to the back of the room and signed up. Then they tried to upsell her for a 10 grand. And she said, "I'm, I'm skin. I can't afford it." How does that make you feel as a business owner when you hear the pressure being put on to sign up?

It's good because I, I like to live my whole life as if there's, all, it's always being reported on. Every time I'm running an event, I even say this to all the staff, "We need to act like everyone in the room is a journalist." Yeah. That's how we got to act. Doing what we would in public and in private. Same. So I'm not perfect. Dodge. I am not an, I am not a perfect human being. But I'd like to think that I got nothing to hide. Everything's on the table. Yeah. I passionately sell my products. Yeah. Get over it. So does the man on the market saying, "One pound fish." Have a look. "One fish." You're going to go and do a report on him? Yeah. I'm running a one-pound course. It's a loss leader. Then I'm going to sell. Get over it. We're all adults. Everyone's an adult in the room. Every time I sell, I always say, "This is not a promise. This is a process. This is not a guarantee. This is an opportunity. This is going to be hard work." I'm so, yeah, man. Come report. Come. I have no problem. I welcome them.

If someone signs up for two grand, what are they actually getting for that two grand?

So they're getting, um, advanced training with me in person for around four days.

Give me an example. Yeah. Um, in a room, in a hotel room, the Thistle Hotel at Heathrow, with myself, group of people, watching me on the phones, hearing what I say. So what I'll do is, I'll be like, "Let's say we're on a course about, um, HMOs." I'll say, "Right, here's how you find an HMO." I'll find it on stage. I'll ring the agent. HMO, housing, house of multiple occupancy. Well, the course might be about packaging and selling deals. Yeah. So here's what I'll do. Spend four days with me. I'll say, "Listen, let's find a deal. We'll find a deal. We'll source a deal. I'll ring up the agent. Someone will go out, view it. Hang all live, like you in my office. Then I'll package it. I'll email it out to my investors. My investors will start calling me. I'll take the call while I'm there, in front of all these people. I'll sell. They'll watch me sell. Then I'll say, 'Now you go do it.' And we'll just spend four days together doing the do of property. Also, I got 10 mentors out in the foyer."

So this is for two grand? This is the three-day course? They get, or do they have to pay for that course?

So the, the free course is just one day. So that's not really a day of like. So for that two grand, what do they get? Okay, if I come up to you, I want to learn what you're doing, Sam. There's two grand cash. What do I get? What are you giving me that day? Where am I going?

You're going to get contracts. So you want to package and sell deals to investors? You're going to get contracts worth two grand. So your two grand has been well spent on.

Getting your, getting your terms and conditions, your sourcing, your non-disclosure agreements. So there you go, there's your two grand. That's good on its own.

But on top of that, you're also going to get four days in person with me, a multi-millionaire. Watching me sell. You're going to get 10 mentors out for the entire week where you can go and have unlimited sessions. Let them look at your deal package. You, you, you're going to get online training which gives the A to Z of how to package and sell deals, how to find the deals, what the scripts, what to say, lifetime access. This is all part of what you'll get for two.

So for that 2 G's, I'm getting all of that. Yeah. And then out of that four days, you're doing a he throw. I'm only getting one day, or I'm getting the whole four days part of that two grand. So you're coming, spending a day with me for a pound, where I'm just going to teach all the basics. Meet me, have a handshake, have a selfie, whatever. Then you're going to invest another two grand if you want. Yeah. If we jail, if you don't like me, then cool, you go home and you tell your story. You like me, we get on, we jail, then you invest two grand, then we spend a week together, and you get mentors one-on-one. We sit down with you, you get your contracts, you get your courses, and, and, and. So for that two grand, they get a week.

Now, not four days. Well, I mean, there's a bit of pre-work to do, homework, stuff like that. Four days with me. Yeah. So personally with you, or would you turn up for one of the days? I'm there the whole time. The whole time. Wow. I mean, I, I'll do 75, 80% of the training. Okay. Yeah. And they're learning everything you need to know about selling. Correct. And what's, what's the, what are you teaching them? You're trying to teach them financial freedom. Depends on what course they take. Okay. Um, if they take, it's, it's practical. If, if they take a course on packaging and selling deals, then they're going to get the A to Z of that. Yeah. If they go on a course learning about property development, then obviously the content will be different, but they'll still get the same value.

So when they do the one thing. Yeah. 1,000 people in the room. One get to the back of the room. Two grand. There's an upsell as well from that two grand, isn't there? Well, a 10 grander, isn't there? Yeah. But bear in mind, right now. Yeah. I've made nothing. No, I hear you. I'm, I'm not testing you. I just want to know this business process because there's lots of noise out there. There's people who really like you, and there's people who don't like you. Your might. I just want to dig down to find out the actual facts of a person who's not in this world. Makes sense.

There's three levels. Okay. And all of this as well. That, 'cause sometimes what people do is they'll, they, they'll try and bring you re, you in. Those with me, I talk about it on every YouTube video, pretty much. It's all on the website. The price lists are there. There's no trying to trick anybody, trying to. It's all there. It's all transparent.

So what is it then? One pound, two grand, then what are the other two? Okay. No, no, no. There's three levels. The first level is all the free stuff. SL one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, for all the free stuff, then there's all the two grand courses. Yep. Then there's the academy, and the academy is 12-month mentorship. Okay. How much is that? 12 grand. Okay. So grand a month? Well, they pay up front. What do they, what they pay up front? To they, what do they get for that 12 grand course? Oh, mate, ridiculous levels of everything. They get unlimited mentoring anytime they want with my, not just myself, but also our mentors. They get a weekly mastermind call with me where we sit on there for an hour and a half, two hours. Yeah. They get, as a group. Yeah. Okay. They get, um, we look at their deals. So every time they look at a property and they want us to review it, they send it to us. We rate it out of 100. We quote all their refurbs. If they've got a property they're looking at and it is a refurb, they send it to us. We've got a full-time builder that we'll give them a quote on how much it is. We have parties, we have networking events constantly. Um, every month we put a nice three-course dinner on in Heathrow. Um, we have little clusters of networks all across the country they can go to. Um, um, where have loads of training. It's just ridiculous. Yeah. It's like the full. That's why they're all rating.

Package is there another level from the 12 grand? No, you just keep it at the 12 G's for everyone. I mean, I could very, a lot of my business 'cause I had Rob Mo on here and he does one for, he told me he does one for 50 grand with individual people or something. Man, now for me, I could very easily. A lot of people think I'm mad when I'm when I'm sitting with my business mentors, they say, why do you do like the academy platinum version? Where you can charge 100 grand and then have them around your house in small groups. I already do that on the academy. Everybody comes to my house in small groups already. Oh, [ __ ]. Well, why don't you offer unlimited mentoring, not just like a mentoring call once for 15 minutes a week, unlimited and charge like 50 grand? We already do that. Unlimited. They're unlimited. So unlimited means I can WhatsApp you five, six times a day? You don't. Uh, you can post on our WhatsApp group, which I'm part of, but no, it's not on WhatsApp, it's over the phone. So what you do is you, uh, I'll show you, man.

How many full-time staff do you got? 47. 47. All just. And the majority of that is the property training? Is it? Oh, another thing I didn't tell you. When you're on the academy, I will finance your deals. Example, you find a good deal that needs financing. So I've got, I've just found somewhere for off alab bar in Bournemouth, 500 grand in Bournemouth. Not quite. And I need 25% or call it 20%. Um, so we, uh, we will only lend up to 100 grand. Okay. Um, because we, otherwise it's my own money. Yeah. If I was to say, oh yeah, man, I give you a million quid, it would be gone pretty quick. So it's to get for people that want to get their first little development project. Yeah. I'll lend up to 100 grand. 80% loan to value. Good for you. Yeah. And I gave over 4 million P in the last four months to my students. Yeah. Lent. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So what is, they got no interest on that? No, there's interest. What interest is it? 1% a month, thereabouts. So 12% for the year. It goes after 6 months, it goes up. It's supposed to be a short. It's, it's actually like a bridging loan. Yeah. So they'll buy a deal, they'll buy it cash. I'll loan them the majority of the money, but then once they've fixed it up, they'll remortgage it. Yeah. And then they'll pay me back. Okay.

So if they can't pay you, say if I borrowed 100 G's off you, and in 5 months' time, I can't pay you back. Yeah. What do you do? Repossess the house? Um, ultimately, we have to repossess the house. Yeah. But that would be a horrible thing for everybody. Yeah. And ultimately, I'm putting my money where my mouth is because when we loan money to people, we will obviously have seen the deal because they're on the academy. Yeah. So we'll know the deal, we'll know the person, you know. So it's, but that's never happened because I only set the company up for about, when was it? We gave our first, we've had our official launch about five months ago.

I want to also find out about, but there's that massive thing on the internet with you and Rob Moore fighting with each other, having a go at each other. It just sort of blew up the internet. Yeah. Of you two genuinely not liking each other. How did that all come about? It wasn't, it something like, well, I saw him on your podcast as well, and that was like the week before the fight. Yeah. So it got, dated very quick. Yeah. It did. And your fans hated him, which was really interesting. What do you think your fans will think of me? You think they'll hate me like they hated Rob Mo? Um, I don't know. I don't know. I think that, I think, you know what, I don't know. Be interesting. It'd be interesting to see. It'd be interesting to see. Coms, how hated Rob Mo was, 'cause I don't think Rob Mo is a particularly hated guy. I'm probably more hated than Rob, really. Probably. Probably. Rob's. Why are you both hated by people? I, I wouldn't say we're hated. No, but not. I'm not talking everywhere. I'm just saying, why is there so much controversy around you and Rob Mo in the property world? I can't speak for Rob, because I know too much about Rob. For me, I think it's a combination of the fact that I'm talking about money pisses people off. I think the fact that I'm selling courses pisses people off because they're, oh, why are you selling courses? Some people think that courses, and it blows my mind, they're so, uh, I don't understand why they think it, but they do. Because I've seen comments, "Oh, I thought this person was really good, and then I realized he sells courses. HH, he's a scam." It's like, what? Since when is selling courses a scam? Like, what the heck? It doesn't make, to me, don't make sense. But for some reason, I'd love to sit down with someone and find out why. But there's that. And then I also think in Britain, particularly, like in America, if you're driving a Ferrari in America, I'm not really into Ferraris, but if you was, they would clap you. But in England, they'd be like, resentful. They think you're a wanker. Yeah. So I think when you're talking about, oh, I made a load of money, oh, and here's how you can too, it's just like, oh, get out. You know, in England, people don't like that.

Do you think the way you are, yeah, as a British man, yeah, given it the old American style, this is how you make money, this is what you got to do, people, this is what you do. And we're on stage throwing this. And you know, I'm, I'm not used to that world whatsoever. But me looking in, I think, might get off stage, man. What, what you play the way you are with it? Some people buy into it. Me personally, I personally wouldn't buy into it. I think would though. I don't think I would. I think you would. Absolutely. I don't think I would. Of course you would. No, I wouldn't. But you're a smart person. Yeah. But I wouldn't buy into you up there giving everybody hands in the air, people, if you want to be a millionaire one day. I don't know. I wouldn't buy into that. I feel, see, I see straight through you. And all the people around me, I'd be looking left and right, finger like, you lot are seeing straight through this fella. What you mean? But no, no, straight through the, the American style. No, but yeah, but I believe that your courses are probably absolutely fantastic, and I believe that you're teaching people the quick way to learn everything you need to know about property. But that person's got to have the energy, the get up and go, and it's got to have that. No, you would do that. They got, they got to have that vibe about them to go, you know what? I really want to make this work, and I'm going to follow everything that he tells me to do, and hopefully it will work. But how, how you'd buy into it? If you're interested in property, you might not even come to one pound course. You've never been already. So maybe you wouldn't. But I think what you would do is you watch a couple of YouTube videos and you go, this is interesting. You'd probably, um, maybe go on to a webinar and you'd watch, you know, you'd register for a webinar to learn about property development or whatever it was that you're interested in. And then I do a sale in the exact same way as I do on stage, where I'd do a stack and I'd make an offer in a very attractive way. And you'd look at the return on investment and you'd think, an online course learning the A to Z of this particular strategy for 995. You know what? Even if I just get one deal, even if I just knock a thousand pound off of the asking price with a slight little negotiation line, you know what? I'll, I'll take a punt. You do it. You'd love it. You'd see how awesome it is. You then get another course, another course, and then you think, you know what? I'm just going to do the academy. I reckon. I reckon you would.

How many people, what percentage of people do you reckon who do your course give up? Um, it depends what you mean by do my course. If you mean to do the one pound course, then no. The one pound here or there, that's like just turn up and have a free day. And if you like it, great. It's a quid for that. Quid, they've got to give you their bank details. Yeah. Okay. Well, so that makes it easier at the end of the day to go, whack, we got your details ready, let's press play, put the money in the bank, job done. No, it doesn't. The reason we charge the pound, uh, for a start, there's a no-show fee. So if they book and don't turn up and don't tell us, we charge them 100 pound. Okay. That's the main reason. It's a pound. Also, it, it's tax efficient because when you're buying a course, you can claim it back, but not if it's the first course you did. But if it's the second course you did with that provider, then it's developing and scaling, you can claim it back.

So are you charging two grand or two grand plus VAT to everyone? 1995 plus VAT. Including VAT. Including VAT. Yes. Okay. Yeah. 'Cause the normal bod, if they were paying 1995 plus VAT, that's a bit harsh, isn't it? If they were a non-business. Well, it's not harsh. It would still be incredibly good value. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, if, if they get to, if they go to sign up and then they realize that they're 20% on top, it's going to like make them think. Have you ever put VAT on top? I think we did used to, but in the early days, because a lot of people do, yeah, they'll say, oh, it's even now, like it doesn't matter for me because I'm VAT registered. But it would like, oh, it's two grand. You all right, cool. You go to buy it and it's 2,400 and you're like, hang on a minute. And they're, oh, well, we got to pay the VAT, man. Yeah. Um, I think when I was deal selling, I, I remember going VAT registered and it's a bit of an awkward, oh, what do we say now? Did we say two grand plus VAT or do we? So there was that bit of awkward transition. Um, but for many years, we've, that's like us selling 30,000 tickets to our Bournemouth 7s Festival saying it's 10 quid a ticket plus VAT. People would just be like, mate, it's 10 quid a ticket. It's slight. Got to take it on the chin ourselves. It's slightly different because we're selling, it's kind of a bit more B2B. Yeah. What we're doing. And then, but probably are most of them registered? Probably not. So, but, but yeah, we, we, uh.

So tell me about the clash with Rob Moore. What happened? Rob Moore said on a podcast like this, he started talking about me and saying he could beat me in a fight. And I was just like, firstly, I don't think he could. But it's a bit of a strange thing to talk about. And, and, and, and whatever. So I just, you know, didn't really do anything about it. But then when I met him and we did an interview, and I was on his podcast, I then just brought it up. Okay. So I was like, hey, remember when you said you could beat me up? Did you really believe that? Like, would you put money on that? Or I was just cheeky, kind of having a chat with him. And he was like, it was like he'd prepared his entire life for this moment because he just went, yep, 50 grand. And I was like, [ __ ]. His confidence made me a little bit like, okay, is this dude? I didn't know as well. Um, or maybe I've been told, I've forgotten, but he has a black belt in kickboxing. So I agreed to fight him. But then afterwards, I was thinking, like, damn, I'm going to have to train for this. Yeah. He's trash talking me, I'm trash talking him. He came on your podcast and he's saying, I'm going to do this to him and that to him. It's a knockout. I've already won this fight. And I'm just like, okay.

When you heard him on our podcast? Yeah. I did. I watched the whole thing. Did you? Yeah. What were you thinking when he was talking about what he was going to do to you in the fight? I mean, I was kind of just taking it with a pinch of salt because everyone, everyone talks a big game to promote the fight. Until you get punched in the face. Well, that's true. But there's also an element of, he's a marketer, right? So part of me's thinking, is he saying this just to market the fight? 'Cause he's got to sell a couple thousand tickets. Was he actually believing this? Uh, but my coach just said, ignore him, train hard. Whoever trains the hardest is going to win the fight. So I just took it seriously. Train like I was training for a professional fight.

How long did you train for? About six months. And how much weight did you lose? I lost, uh, four stone. And then I lost another stone after the fight. Respect. Thanks, man. Respect. For four stone, mate. Yeah. Five now. Wow. Fair play. And I'm still. Did it make you really motivated to say, right, this bloke's trash talking me the whole time? Were you waking up every day thinking about him, thinking what you're going to do to him? What was going through your mind? Not really. I was waking up every day just thinking about training. Yeah. I was just thinking, I just, I just said, right, I'm going to train this many hours a week. This is what I'm going to do. And I'm just going to do it. No matter how I feel, no matter what I'm thinking. Six months is too long to be waking up feeling angry. It's got to be disciplined. I've just got to do what I need to do. So I was training, uh, about 10 hours a week, obviously on top of my business and everything like that. Eating clean. And then, yeah, kicked his ass. Knocked him down on the first round. He was on his knees like a little [ __ ] in round one. And then afterwards, he was like, oh, but I had a headache. I'm like, of course you had a headache. I smacked you in the head. That's why you had a headache. Um, oh, but you were so, he was much heavier than me. Well, you, you agreed to fight me when I was four stone bigger. So now you're complaining now that I'm too heavy when I lost four stone. Okay. So yeah, I don't think he took it that well, to be honest. I think he took it bad. But you know what? Respect to the guy for getting in the ring. Respect to both of you getting in the ring. Yeah. And you're both colorful, controversial characters. And me getting to know Rob after that podcast, I know a lot of our fans didn't warm to him, but actually, he's actually, he's a nice guy. He's a good guy. He's a nice guy. He's got a big heart on him. Yeah. He does. Um, and he's been very kind to me since we've done the podcast, etcetera, etcetera. You know, now he's, he's a professional. Yeah. I, if I was him, though, yeah, I wouldn't have bigged it up so much. I would have gone more under the radar and just trained. But then he wouldn't have sold tickets. Sold tickets. I get it. I get it.

Did you pipe up? Yeah. Oh, did you? Oh, mate, I was. I did more trash talking than him, probably. Okay. Give an example. Well, I said that he looked like a gay rat dressed up for a nightclub 'cause he wears his. When I went to meet him for our conference, I wore the braces, you know, the little gay braces that he wears. I wore them. Um, and then he was going on, oh, you're all his people, you're homophobic. I'm not. I'm not being homophobic. I'm just saying you look like someone getting ready to go to a gay bar. That's not a bad thing. It's how you look. Um, so we were trash talking. Um, but yeah, I didn't really actually have any hate for the guy. No. Of course not. Two property developers. I found it quite odd, if I'm honest with you. Yeah. I did. Looking in, I thought, this is odd. But quite, this is quite good. Luck. It's going to charity as well. Yeah.

How much money went to charity in the end? Um, all of it. 50 grand. Wow. Not a lot more. More than that, because it was 50 grand, then we opted to 100 grand. So we both put in 100 grand each. So the pur. Well, hold on, hold on, hold on. It was 50 bags you shook hands on. Yeah. When was the next time it got up to drawing your trash talk? In the same room, in person. We met up again. And yeah, and he was like, I know 100%. I was like, okay, if you know 100%. 'Cause I think I'm a bit richer than him. So for me, up at it, 50 grand ain't really a big deal. 'Cause I tried to up it again, but he wasn't having it. Okay. What, you know his limits? I think he knew his limits. Yeah. So, so, so the first time you were on his podcast, yeah, he come in with a 50 grand. Yes. You then met up again. Then I trained a bit and I started thinking, I'm going to win this. Okay. So I upped it. I asked him, do you want to up it to 100? He was like, where were you when you upped it to 100? Uh, I can't remember, but we were in person, meeting some, some venue. Okay. So then we able to do 100. All recorded. All recorded. Then I said to him, you say you're going to give the money to charity. I'm putting in 100, you're putting in 100, that's 200. Yeah. If you win, are you putting the whole 200 or you claiming your 100 back and just giving my 100 to charity? And he wouldn't answer that question. So I said, just for the record, I'm putting in the full 200 and anything we raise in ticket sales. So yeah. So yeah, we, we, uh, we built a hospital ward in Uganda, which is now built. Amazing. Which cost 200 grand.

What sort of feedback were you getting when all this was going on, this whole lead up? That two property developers, why are you, why didn't you like each other? Um, we didn't hate each. Competition. Wasn't it competition? That my training business is bigger than your training business, and you're a liar, and you're a liar. What was going on? What stemmed it all? Not really. When I blew up big, and then he said he could beat me in a fight and all that. You blew up big when, as in like, when, as in like, you know, we talked about like 2018, 2019, that kind of era. Thousand people in a room. He's getting pissed off, being shady, saying I could beat him in a fight. His whole area is Peterborough. That's his area. He's not UK. He's just Peterborough. Peter is a [ __ ] hole. And that's his whole, all of his training, all of his properties, all of his, it's all in Peter. So I just thought, you know what? Let me find the biggest venue in Peter and just sell it out. I'll go to Peter. So I booked this venue, and then I put like billboards all around his house. And I found out where he lived and put billboards on my face. You know, coming to Peter, the biggest and the best in Peterborough. Where did you put these on the big billboards? Yeah, we just paid. Yeah. Oh, 10 grand. Yeah. 10 grand. Yeah. Rob messaged me and said, Rob messaged me. He got my number and he said, um, what was the return on investment on those billboards? Like, businessman. Like, oh, what was the ROI? Zero. I said, 100% because you saw it. Yeah. What do you mean? I only put it there to piss you off. If it pissed you off, my return on investment was 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mission accomplished. Um, so yeah, so there was that. So what, so this is July 2023, the fight. Yeah. What month were you putting these billboards? Oh, that was way prior. Was it? This was like before 20, before the lockdown, 2018, 2019. So you, you had beef all. You had beef for three, four years before you had the fight. A little bit of beef. Yeah. Okay. I mean, listen, I got bigger beef with people. Yeah. I describe Rob now as a friend of me. Okay. Like, you know, kind of a friend.

How has he been since losing the fight towards you? Well, I actually messaged him recently, about a month ago, and I said to him, hey, do you want to come up to one of my events and speak? You know, um, there's going to be, you know, 400 people. Come and have a chat. Just my academy members, and I'll buy everybody a book and I'll make sure that you're the author. I'll buy 400 copies of your book, um, and give you a bit of money. You come down and speak. And he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll come. And then I was like, when do you want to come? And he's not responding. And he's a bit, I think he might be. I think he probably thinks in his mind that if he came, I'd be like teasing him. But actually, I wouldn't at all. I would just be honoring him and respecting him. Um, so there's no beef now on my side. Apart from a tiny bit because of how sour he was when he said about the weight thing and made a few excuses. I wish, I wish that he just took the beating like a man. I wish he just said, you know what, the best man won on the night. Congratulations for the weight loss, congratulations for getting sharp, and for beating me in the boxing ring, fair and square. If he'd said that, I would have respected him more. But he didn't say that. But still, man, he got in the ring. Takes balls. Yeah. Absolutely massive balls.

Where was the fight? Where was the fight? Uh, yeah, in Brentwood. Okay. What's that feeling like for you going in the ring on that night, nerves-wise? I was pretty nervous. I was, I'm always nervous though when I when I do things like that. I mean, fighting, I don't know if you ever had a fight like, like an organized fight like that? Not unorganized one. Yeah. It's pretty nerve-wracking. Yeah. When you, the most nerve, the most nervous I was when I was backstage having my hands wrapped. It's like 200 grand on the table. Yeah. Embarrassment. Yeah. Friends and family. Yeah. All this hype. Muhammad Ali says that he used to hype the fights, but that used to make him more nervous because of the trash talk. But if he didn't trash talk, he wouldn't sell the tickets. So I was thinking, there's been a lot of trash talk. So I was nervous, man. But I think it's normal. I bet. Yeah. W. 'Cause then when I was having my hands wrapped, I was thinking, as soon as my hands are wrapped, I'm in. I'm in. I can't even go to the toilet. I'm just in. Yeah. Um, yeah, I was nervous, man.

Was there, was there more than nerves? Not losing 200 G's? Well, listen, he won the money. He won the money. Would it be the nerves on the pride? Post-fight for you? Yeah. The money is either going to go to my charity, yeah, or his charity. So it's all goodness. You know what I'm saying? Like, I know I want the money. It's just, but the funny thing is, I had a fight a couple months after the Rob fight, and I lost. And even though it wasn't a big fight, it was just a quiet thing, it was nothing like the Rob Mo fight. It's a horrible feeling. Yeah. I'm still upset now. Months ago, I still wake up feeling pissed off.

How many people went to yours and Rob's fight? I think there about, we totally, totally packed. We sold the venue was rammed. I think there was, they said 800 was max, but we oversold it a bit. I think we might have had around 2,000 or just shy of 2,000 in the room. That's amazing. Yeah. Really is. A couple of property developers having a tear up. Yeah.

When you knocked him down in the first round, what was that feeling like? I was like, yeah, I'm going to win this comfortably. And then when he hit me and it didn't hurt, I was like, he can't hurt me. He's knocked down. I'm winning. I was just chilled.

What did you do after the fight? Went out, had a big cigar, hide out at a nightclub, took all my friends, gave my trainer a big 6,000 tip, and just enjoyed, enjoyed the night. I was buzzing for weeks after that.

Tell me about your YouTube channel. You got like 300,000 subscribers or 400,000 subscribers, something like that. You've put on almost, almost, almost. I think there's about 430 something thousand now. Is that what it is? Is it 7 million views last month? And how many, how many years have you been doing your YouTube channel? Since 2015. So you started early. Yeah. Yeah. I was the biggest. What did you, what did you see that a lot of other people in the UK saw starting that early for, for what you were doing? I started it by mistake. So I was, I was, I had like an email list where I was emailing in my investor. And I told, I'd say to my investors when I meet the network, join my newsletter. Can't really say join my newsletter and I'll sell you my deals. Got to add some value, right? Join my newsletter. And what? So I said, join my newsletter and I'll send out some valuable information every month. So these people are joining and I'm like, [ __ ] man, what am I going to send them? I have to write a blog and send them a blog. And I started doing that. And I don't like writing blogs. And I thought, you know what, [ __ ], I'm just going to film a video and send it to them. Do a video. Hey, happening. My name is. I just bought this house. This is the type of property I'm looking to buy. If you want me to find your a house like this, you know, this is the three things you need to look. And I'm like, how am I going to send this to my audience? Uh, if I put on YouTube, I send the YouTube link. Yeah. I got about 600 people on my email list. I do a YouTube video, send it to them. I get about 500 views. I'll be like, okay, most of them saw it. Yeah. Okay. But then I started getting more views than I had on my list. I'm like, how on earth is that happening? I've only got 600 people on my list. I got 2,000 views. What then I realized, oh, people are finding me organically. Yeah. Okay. I need to take this more serious. So now people are finding me organically and coming to my list instead of people on my list seeing the video. People are coming to the video, then going on my list. So my list started growing and that helped my business. And then I took it serious. Then I hired a full-time videographer. Yeah.

How many people working on your personal brand these days? Um, nobody. So who's doing your YouTube video editing? I don't have any employees that do that. I, um, I do a lot myself. Do you? Yeah. Do you outsource it? Anything? Um, I've got a company, a video production company, who film and, and stuff like that, but they're not employees. They just do it on top of what they're doing. Like, not like you. I see you, all your stuff in that. Off. I do a lot myself. Even Instagram and everything. If you've seen a post on Instagram, it's been posted and created by me. Yeah. Uh, I respond to everybody on Instagram. I've got this thing where it's like, I have to respond to everyone. I do. Same. I feel like same. And I, I think building that, 'cause we've only been on, uh, YouTube for a year now. Yeah. And it's blowing up amazingly well. Only 12 months. But I'm replying to everyone. I do. 'Cause I think it just builds that connection. It does. And also, if someone's taken the time to write a nice paragraph or something, agree. How can I just ignore that? Agree. Totally. And I get, like, if you see how many messages I get, I get a lot. Like, look, um, you can see even now, just all. Yeah. Your mom, your auntie, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. Like, all today. Yeah. She's all today. Yeah. So, and, and I, I just, I must spend two hours a day. Yeah. Same. Yeah. It's mad, isn't it? Respond. But enjoy it. I do enjoy it. I get my wife to help me sometimes, or sometimes I get my, if I'm busy, I'll get my assistant to. I'll say, can you go? But, but I always say, if my assistant jumps on, I'll be like, if there's anything that's personally like to me, yeah, put it in the general box or whatever. But if there's something, oh, I'm struggling to get my ticket, blah, blah, blah, just send the link. So I get a bit of help. I find the hardest bit is flipping between all the social media platforms. Like, like YouTube, got people on YouTube, and I've got Instagram, and on Facebook, and now LinkedIn. And well, I went on TikTok recently. You know what I've done? We've done TikTok. I haven't read one message on TikTok. Yeah. I just think it's a very different platform. It's not a, it's a, like growing a YouTube channel is very hard, but when you break the back of it, it's absolutely fantastic. And it's, I feel it's the most powerful platform with LinkedIn, but that's just me. Facebook works a treat as well. Instagram is kind of a showy. Instagram is my favorite. Would you say Instagram is more sort of, uh, not showy? It probably is. I'm not that showy on there. I'm not saying I'm not showy at all, but I'm not, I'm not into like, if you look at the way I dress, I don't wear jewelry, don't wear fancy watches, don't drive fancy cars. I live a reasonably. You know, I saw that yellow one you got in the car park. Which one was that? The Trotter's Independent Traders. Is that just a gag? Yeah, man. My favorite. It's your favorite. Are you joking? No, you're one in the car park. The Range Rover. No, the Trotter's Independent Traders one, the yellow one. That's you joke. That's not my car. Yeah, it is. I'll take it. I'll take it. But I didn't come in. I came in a gold Range Rover. But it's okay. It's a freewheeler. No, I'm only playing. Um, I don't know if you're serious. 'Cause I, I did for my Financial Freedom Challenge, I did have a little yellow. Did you? Banger. Yeah. Yeah, I did. Yeah. Just a couple months ago. Started again from scratch. Why? Just for fun. What do you mean? You started from scratch? Oh, yeah, bro. I. You have you ever gone bankrupt? No. No. When you say scratch, then you built your business up from a young, 17-year-old. What are you today? 34. 32. 32. 17-year-old. The last two, three years have they been for you post-pandemic? Have you changed as a person? Have you improved as a person for when you look what you were doing in the hotels for a pound of man, 2018, 2019? Do you feel like you're a new Samuel Le? Come 22, 22, 23, 24. Yeah. Yeah. I do, massively. In what way? Way more focused on, way more customer-focused, customer-obsessed. More relaxed. In lockdown, is actually, although it hurt our business, I mean, our training business. Oh, in lockdown, suffered. Suffered. Yeah. We were spending half a million pounds a month on overheads and suddenly lockdown, can't make any money. On the training property business, I had to sell a bunch of my houses. That's when I was like, thank God I got multiple. You know, just to pay staff. In that, in the early days, before furlough was announced.

How many houses did you have when lockdown hit? Less than I do now. Yeah. Yeah. But I had to. I did sell a bunch. Yeah. Just to pay people off and make. I sold about maybe seven, eight, nine houses out of how many? Roughly, uh, multiple hundred. Really? Yeah. What that you owned? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. I play. Didn't know that. Yeah. I own quite a few. It also depends what you call a house as well. Like, I can. People ask, people are obsessed with knowing what. Could you go from a house from like 60 grand to 500 G? What's your, what's your bracket apart from your own personal house? 'Cause I'd imagine that's a two or three mil in itself. But yeah, a bit, bit more. But yeah. Um, what's a house? What would I buy now? Um, now I'm more of a developer. Yeah. So now it's, it's bigger stuff and it's land and knock down, build from scratch. Yeah. And, and also commercial. Um, I mean, I just bought this year, last year, I bought two hotels. Um, in the millions. I bought a factory. That's got a gross. Whereabouts in the hotels? The factory in the country? Cambridge, one of the hotels. Another of the hotel is in Peak District. Factory is in Wolverhampton. So you don't care where the, where anything is. You'll just buy if the deal's right. Not exactly. Oxford's not too far. Sorry, Cambridge is not a million miles away from where I live. I live in in Beckenham. So. And it was just, I bought for, I bought it for, I got a pound option on it. You know, I was talking earlier about option to buy it. Yeah. I bought it for a pound effectively. Anyway, long story. Factory is well from Wolverhampton. That's where I was born and bred, pretty much. I used to have a nightclub in Wolverhampton years ago. Was it called The Canal Club? 20 odd years? Was it? Canal Club? I can't. We were talking year 2000, 2001. I think we had that for about three years. It's a good area. Yeah. Different Wolverhampton, but that factory has got a gross development value of about 7 mil. Okay. And I bought it for a million. You bought it for a mill. How much you got to spend on it? Three and a half to four. Oh, well, happy days. Yeah. Yeah. It's not bad. But hey, I don't want to speak too soon because the work is still going on. Course. I don't talk about my developments on. Do you? Do you? You don't care if you got 200 properties or 300 properties, you don't care where they are in the country if the deal is right. Yeah. And then you do, you bring the deal back and have you got a team of people who will deal with that deal? Yeah. Okay. I have and I've employed most of my family. Interesting. How many family members you employed? Geez. Um, roughly 10. Five. It's got to be about 10, really. Yeah. How's that? Because there's, there's a big check out there. Family business, business friends. I disagree with people that say don't do business with family. It depends how you mean by employed. Sorry. Exactly. As well. Like my brother, I've partnered with him. He's not an employee. 50-50s. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Is he older or younger? He's older. Quality. And then my other brother, who's my brother-in-law. Yeah. Um, employed him, but we, he, he, um, he's the director of one of our project management companies. So he does all the big developments. He's a chartered quantity surveyor. Brilliant. So he's. Amanda's parents. Amanda is. Amanda's my wife, sorry. Yeah. Um, my mom. My mom works as one of our mentors. Amazing. For, for the training, but she's also in property. So just loads, man. And also, I moved out of Wolverhampton to Beck, Beckenham. And I moved over 42 people to my village. Mostly family. BR. Bought my sister a house last year. How nice is that for you to be able to do that? And you know, you know, you know, people say money and happiness and all this. It gives you the freedom to be able to do the nice stuff that you're doing, right? It's also, it's, it's just a great feeling to be able to help the people that. I remember when I was 17 years old and I was just training and everyone was like, what are you doing? I had had a Ford KA. Dents on it. I bought it for 450 quid. And I was like, this is going to run out of petrol, but I couldn't afford to top it up. Breaks down. I push it to the nearest petrol station in the rain. Put 5 pound minimum spend on it. And then my card declines. My other card declines. I can't literally pay 5 pound. I rang my little sister, who was in school, who's four years younger. She must have been 13. I said, can I borrow 5 pound? She says, I'll bank transfer it to. She a little account. She transferred me 5 pound, which got me home. To be able to then buy her a house 15, 16 years later and just say, you can stay here forever. There's no mortgage on it. It's yours. Set up a little company called Tiff. My sister called Tiffany. Little company called Tiffany's Home. Tiffany's Home Limited. It's your house. It's a good feeling. That's a lovely feeling. And having all your parents move in. Move in. My bro, 30 seconds from me. He bought a mansion a minute away from me. Like when we grew up, we had nothing. Couldn't afford carpets on the times. So it's a good feeling. Good for you. I appreciate it, bro. Yeah, mate. Really good for you. That's powerful. Hard work though. Yeah. But you love it. I love it. And when you love something, yeah, it's not hard work. Yeah. Because you, and I were constant as entrepreneurs. You're constant, constant thinking, building up teams, building up my world's very different to yours, obviously, what I do. But yeah, I, I hear you.

What have your movements been in the past year? Because you said you've changed, and from meeting you today, I can see the emotion in your face that you were a different person. 16, 17, 2017, 2018, 2019. Pandemic slowed everyone down. It made us all reflect and stop. Yeah. It seems like you've grown into a a better entrepreneur, a better businessman, uh, maybe a little bit more humble. Is that because you've got money in the bank and everything slowed down for you to go, I know what I want now in life? Um, I don't know exactly. I think that I've, I've had a, I've had a tough time in business. Um, and tough times do make you humble. Yeah. And, and also make you stronger. Um, I've had a lot of people, you know, had bad press. I've had bad press. 2019 had a lot of bad press. Had a lot of people stab me in the back. People that I thought were friends weren't friends. Um, and then you realize that people's opinions doesn't matter. Um, I've, 2020, been in a situation where I'm struggling to pay my staff. Had to sell houses. I sold one house. I bought it. It was just a, I can't even remember the figures on it, but I bought this house, cheap house, spent a few thousand refurbishing it, and then I sold it for a loss, and I lost money on it. And I was just like, it's painful. And then the person that bought it from me saw that it had been my house.

Because they could see the title, did they know? And they knew who I was, and it started taunting me on Instagram. "Ah, you bought this house and you've lost money." "I bought it, Sam leads, Mr. Money Maker," like taunting me. And I was thinking, "Yeah, well, I'm, I'm in a bit of a sticky spot. That's why you have assets so that when times get tough, like a global pandemic, you can get yourself out of a hole." But like, yeah, it's just interesting, you know? It's interesting. Um, yeah, but yeah, I definitely think I'm changing every day. I'm, I'm, I'm growing and trying to get better.

"How long have you been married for?" "Next year it's going to be 10 years." "10 years? And kids?" "Three kids." "Got three kids? Yeah. Ages? Oldest is six and youngest is two." "See, that slows you down. That makes you put things in perspective, doesn't it?" "Yeah, I think so. I think just life, just in general. And now as well, I'm not old, I'm still young, I'm 32. But, um, you know, it's like, what is life? Why, why am I doing what I'm doing?" You know, remembering why you started as well, not getting just drawn into it all being about the numbers, 'cause ultimately, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't. And it certainly doesn't change my life. I think when you're starting out and it's like, "If I don't get this sale, I'm not going to eat." Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it gets to a point where it's like, "But actually, of course, I want to make money. Yeah, but what's the real..." But it doesn't mean anything. You get to a level where after that, it doesn't really mean, it's not going to affect your day-to-day. You think it does, though, don't you? You think, "Oh, but it means I can get that extra investment. It means I can finish the refurb here. It means I can..." If you're like myself, I'm not into fast cars, sports cars, watches, and like, all of that. I love my mates, I love my family, I love keeping fit and healthy and exercise and good people, having good people around me, and long lunches and holidays. They're my things.

"Yeah, what it for you, mate?" "Experiences, all day long." "Yeah. I will be outraged if, with my wife, if she spends like, she goes, 'Oh, if, if, if she gets me a top.' And sometimes I'll ask her, 'How much was that top?' Just so I know I can't get food on it. 'How much was that top?' If it's like more than £100, I'm like, 'What the heck? Why are you spending £150 on a shirt?' Yeah, I can't tell the difference if it's 20 or 100 or a thousand. So I don't spend money on clothes. I don't. I have a nice car. I have a Range Rover, which is nice, and it massages me. It has a fridge in it. Cool. But that's comfort. Yeah. That's it. Why, why a gold one?" "Um, I don't know. I think it's just, it's got like, like a kingly feel to it, you know?" "Well, part of the experience been like, 'Yeah, man, I'm getting into my nice gold high-up car.' Um, but that's the most expensive luxury. Okay, my house. But that's, it's all experiences. Things like watches, as much as people will tell me it's an asset, it's an investment, I don't get it. And also, I don't, I would never buy a proper that I just had on my hand like this, that someone could just steal. Yeah. So if I've got, if I've got a £50,000 watch, just someone take it like that. Yeah. I'm risking my life. Interestingly, Floyd Mayweather has all these security guards around him, but it's only because he's so bling bling. Yeah. Because Richie Branson's richer than Floyd, and Richie Branson doesn't have all those security guards. He's chill, just travels low-key, and he's richer. So if you bling bling, um, I, I, I just don't get it."

"How do you, you feel when there's a troll coming after you? How does that make you feel? Because you seem to me that you're easy come, easy go, happy-chappy. It seems to me previous years you're putting on this front to be this person. It seems to me now that you're actually comfortable in your own skin. And when you get a, a troll after you, you can have a thousand nice comments and one troll comes in at you. What does that personally make you feel like?"

"Um, generally speaking, I can't say I get too bogged down with trolls because if I did, I'd be miserable because I have a lot of trolls. Um, obviously, you know, no one wants to be getting hated on. And also, I think it depends on what they're saying. There was this one guy that messaged me, and he, you know, he just messaged me a direct message and he said, 'You're a fat [__].' That was the message. And I was responded 'cause I respond to everybody. Not going to make any exceptions. I said to him, 'Are you having a bad day? You having a bad day, man? You okay?' And he responded back and said, 'Yeah, [__].' And I said, 'Well, if there's anything I can do for you, you know, let me know.' It turns out he then starts talking to me, sharing his life story. Turns out he's actually been watching my videos for years. He didn't hate me. So I think when someone just comments just something horrible, normally, I think, 'Actually, maybe they're not having a great day.' Well, it's their own stuff. Yeah, it's their own stuff. But sometimes it's not. Sometimes I'll get someone coming for me, and there's actually merit in what they're saying, and I'll be like, 'Huh, that's an interesting point.' And then I'll ponder it. Like, if, if someone says something like, I used to have it a lot in interviews because I quite like to talk. So if I'd be interviewing people, I'd sometimes talk over them, or I'd ask them a question, then as they were talking, I'd be thinking about my next question, or, you know what I mean? And people used to comment, 'Ah, you're a terrible interviewer. Give him a chance to speak for goodness sake.' And that I was actually like, 'Okay, I need to learn here.' You know? So you can't just disregard everything someone says. Is they're a troll? Sometimes. No, they're your friend. They're a critic."

"Why do you think there is, like a minute ago, you, in your own words, there's there's a lot of haters out there?" "Yeah." "Why?" "I don't know." "I'm confident that even on this interview, there'll be people, 'Oh my gosh, you know, you're such a jerk,' or they'll be coming for you. 'Why would you platform this course seller? Delete this video. This guy, he sells courses.' You know?" "Um, but that's why we, that's why we spoke because I want to put you in a light that we're having a, a fair, a fair conversation here. That some people who don't like you may see you in a different light today. Maybe. Or some people might think, 'Yep, confirmed everything I already thought. Yes, what a chopper.' Going back, why is the hatred there?" "Um, I don't know. I don't, I don't really..." "You must, you must know. You must look at yourself sometimes and look at, go, 'God, I'm all, I'm all out there doing these videos, doing this, doing that, being loud and being brash.' There must be something that triggers you to go, 'You know what? If I tweak, if I tone that down a little bit in my 30s?' Because you're still young, right? 32. You were doing all that in your 20s. Fair play. In your 20s, everyone's grafting for everything you get out of the way. Everyone's now in your 30s. It's your next chapter. That is probably going to slow down. There must be something you realized you were doing wrong to get this hatred."

"Um, I don't think though, when I'm like doing videos, like if you met me at a party or if you come around my house, I'm just quite loud, out there, expressive person generally. So when I'm doing a video, I'll be the same. 'Hey, what's up? I'm standing right now in Newcastle. I just bought.' That's what I'm doing. So, so that's not, that's not a front. That's just you." "That's just me." "Yeah, that's just me doing my 100% strip everything back. That is Samuel Leeds. It's when people meet me sometimes in real life, they'll be, or I'll send someone a personal voice note or a video. Like, I'll make a new friend, and then I'll be chatting, and I'll do him a quick video, 'Hey, I'm just at your house,' and they're like, 'It was like I was watching you on TikTok. Like, you're the same.' So, yeah, it is. It is. Obviously, you know, sometimes I might have to delete deliberately, but I might play up or lean into it slightly. But, yeah, that's just, that that is just kind of me. And occasionally, I'll do things controversial on purpose just because I know it would piss some people off. Like, I don't know if you saw it. Did you see my chainsaw stuff?"

"Yeah, what was that?" "I was about to say, you, someone's in your house not paying rent, you took a chainsaw and chainsawed the whole door out and kicked it in." "Well, that's what it looked like. The reality is, I just bought the property. There was no one in it." "Is that right?" "Yeah, there's no one in it. Junior, I just did it just to piss people off or just to get the PR right. I was on national TV talking about it. It was in The Sun, it was in The Mirror, it was every big newspaper. It was in..." "How did someone pick that up? Are you thinking, 'Hold on a minute, if I chainsaw this, someone just banging out and posting it?'" "Yeah, I just posted on Instagram. It got picked up within two hours. And when I posted, I messaged my brother and I said, 'Give it 24 hours, it's going to be all over the TV, newspapers. Give it 24 hours.' And it was."

"And what was, why did you want to do that?" "I wanted to do it for a few reasons, but the main reason was because when I saw the door and I said, 'Um, this is what happens if guests don't pay and refuse to leave the house.' That was my caption. Um, I knew that the media would paint me to be the bad guy. 'Oh, this person is terrible landlord.' Even though they don't know the facts. As it happens, it's a stunt anyway. But for all they know, it could be being used as a brothel for sex trafficking, and I could have come out and to get... they don't know anything. But I knew that they would go with this anti-landlord, anti-rich guy, and they did. Millionaire landlord chainsaws out tenants who said there was tenants in there who said you..." "So I knew that they'd go with that narrative. And then on national TV, when they were like interviewing me, I called them out and I said, 'You published a story, and also it was GB News, yeah, who like to consider themselves as really different and quite right-winged and conservative and probably pro-landlords.' I was like, 'No, no, no. You published a story today saying millionaire landlord kicks out tenants. They weren't tenants. There weren't even any guests in there.' Like, what's going on? What, what?' So, so it was really. And also just to get conversations, to get people talking. And of course, getting eyeballs. They'll watch me with a chainsaw and they'll go, 'Oh, that's interesting.' And then next thing they know, they'll be sat on one of my one-pound programs, you know what I mean? So it was really just a stunt. But that is the sort of thing that can create more hatred."

"Potentially, potentially. Like, if you're looking in, because the normal Karen looking at that goes, 'Well, I can't believe the landlords are doing that.' And it comes back to Samuel Leeds, and then Samuel Leeds gets a knock-on effect of getting more people maybe trolling from that." "Would you not have been best of just keeping mum?" "Maybe. Maybe. But that's boring, isn't it?" "Yeah, no, I get it. I get, I get everything you're doing. But I'm also thinking, a young 30-year-old going through the next chapter, yeah, how you mature as well through the chapter, calm things down. As maybe vanilla?" "I mean, not vanilla, don't be vanilla at all, because that ain't you. But that's a great stunt to get publicity. But also that publicity can come back to you and be a negative effect as well on your personal brand." "It's true. It's true. Maybe I need to. I mean, don't get me wrong, there was people saying to me in my team, 'Don't do it.' And, and sometimes I get that with my team as well. 'No, no, we're doing it.' And then they, 'No, definitely.' All right. I have, I have a code with some of my, some of my senior people in my team. We, we say green light, red light, orange light. Yeah. And if there's, it's a bit like that was a strong orange. Yeah. If it's not red, it kind of means you can't. Sometimes my team will say, 'This is a red light.' Yeah. Okay. And what that means is that means you can do it, but on your head. Yeah. We're backing you. We're picking up the pieces. You will be on your own.' And then 99% of the time, if I'm told by my team it's a red light, I won't do it. Yeah. Agree. And every time I put a YouTube video, if it's a little bit controversial, I'll send it to them. Yeah. And then they look at it and they go, 'Ah, this, this bit here, this one sentence is a red light.' And I just chop it. So I do have that. Yeah. I didn't have that a few years ago."

"How does your, your 50/50 partner with your brother? What's his name?" "Russell." "Russell. How does he, what does he do in the business? Because you're not going to be, you're going to be two different characters, I'd imagine." "Yeah. What sort of character is Russell?" "Systems, procedures, all back end. Back end protecting, yeah. Solid. Yeah. A little bit more, I would say he's nine to five. Gosh, he works hard, but he's a bit more that way." "Okay. And you're the front man?" "Yes. The go-getter." "Yeah. Yeah. I'm the marketer. I'm more marketing, sales. He's more finance, systems, back end operations. 50/50 on everything." "What a great team. All my properties." "Have you ever had an argument with him about business?" "We have debates continually. Yeah. But we've never had, never fallen out. No." "Great. Never? But what our rule is, if we disagree, we'll debate it. Yeah. Whoever wins the debate gets what they want. Yeah. So let's say we're like, 'Oh, we don't think we, oh, I think we should buy this house.' 'No, I don't think we should buy the house.' Okay, well, let's have a debate. Yeah. We have a debate, and then if I'm like, 'Oh, makes sense actually. Can't really think of an answer.' Then he'll be like, 'Got you. Let's buy it.' So that's our rule. Never had any problems really. In family, loads of family in the business. Um, disagree with people that say don't hire family or don't work with family. Doesn't make any sense. Yeah. I love working with my family. Same. They're protected. Is they been my wife for many years? Never had an argument with my wife, not once. Never fallen out. We've had debates, disagreements, but we've never fallen out."

"And where's your wife from?" "Zimbabwe." "Zimbabwe? Yeah. Do you go back there?" "Just got back yesterday." "Did you feel safe out in Zimbabwe?" "Very safe. Okay. It's the only place where I could sit and not feel like, if you ever see me in a restaurant, I always have to have my, my back to a wall. Yeah. I feel weird." "Why?" "Oh, just in case someone comes up behind me, or I like to just be able to see what's going on." "Do you get recognized out there?" "Yeah." "In what sort of, what sort of fame would you say it is?" "Um, I'd say if I go out, I probably get recognized. Like yesterday, I went to have my haircut, I got stopped three times. It's not like in your home, in your hometown. Okay. So if you venture out into other countries or other towns, I got stopped from more than I thought in Zimbabwe. Yeah. Got stopped quite a bit. I'd say probably, you know, if I go out somewhere where there's people, yeah, I'm probably going to get stopped. But when I get stopped, it's more like respectful. You know, 'Hey, could I have a picture?' Or, 'Or a handshake?' Or, 'Or even just a nod.' 'Sam Leeds, you know.' Um, I don't get like fans. Yeah. Yeah. It's more..." "That's a nice, that's a nice level." "Yeah. I don't get like people like, 'Oh my gosh.' I don't get that. Um, but tell me, tell me about, tell me about when you dressed up as an old man." "Yeah, tell me that story." "Last month. That went out last month. Yeah." "Tell me, tell me what went on there."

"Um, that was when I'm, I get tired of hearing people saying, coming up with all the reasons as to why you can't be successful. 'Oh, but what about if you've got bad credit?' 'Oh, but what about if this?' 'What about if that?' Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you guys are coming up with so many excuses. It just irritates me. So what I did was, I took on all the excuses of the world. Brand new company, old man, yeah, no money, no contacts. What else? What else? All the excuses. Old banger car. Um, no, this, no, that. No. Bring it, bring it on. Took it all on. And then as a social experiment, started again from scratch in property." "So you had makeup to make you look like an old man?" "Correct." "And then you would dress up like an old man?" "Yes." "And then what would you do in that day?" "Go networking, just like I did when I was 17." "And what was that feeling like? Did you have any sort of ageism against you? Do you have people thinking he doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's a bit too old? Or what, what went on?"

"Um, it reminded me of when I started out from the beginning because, yeah, like now, because I've got the, the position that I'm in and I've got the wealth and stuff like that, I have respect in the industry. Even if I just go to a state agent and I'm, I'll show them like, if I'm putting an offer on a property, I'll never just put an offer on a property. I'll say to them, 'Here's my offer. Here's my proof of funds. Yeah. You can see that six mil.' Not in an arrogant way, but I'm letting them know I'm serious. It's not about my offer, it's about the strength of my, not about the price, about the strength. Look at that. Right. Here's my details. Here's my this. Here's my that. Here's my the other. Right.' So if they don't even know who I am, because they don't recognize me anyway, I got this was when I was starting out from scratch and got nothing. Yeah. They don't recognize me. I had an alias name. I haven't got money in the bank. Starting again from scratch. So I actually quite like the feeling. It's quite, um, refreshing. Yeah. It's like, 'Oh, yeah, you know, this is what it's like.' So was that all filmed? You being an old man?" "Mhm." "And where's that going out?" "It's already out. Went out last, a month or two ago." "Did it? Yeah. Yeah. And I've done that 11 times. I'm actually a bit addicted to it. I like the feeling. Yeah. And the buzz being fresh again. Start." "You know what, you know what the biggest thing of entrepreneurs is? A lot of them go bust because they want that feeling of being bust and starting over again. What you're doing is an amazing thing, not going bust, pretending you're starting over again and going for it." "But in my head, I have gone bust. Yeah. Yeah. But you're right about entrepreneurs. Yeah. They do go bust, don't they? It's a weird reason 'cause people like the bust. You know, I've..." "You reckon I would ever go bust?" "Do I think you'll ever go bust?" "Yes." "No." "I don't think you will." "I don't think I will. No. I'm sitting here now after an hour, hour and a half of you. I don't think you will. I would never say never though. I don't think, but very surprised. I don't think you will unless you are really stupid. Yeah. I can't see it. Got trusts and pension funds and..." "Yeah, you're protecting the castle. You're protecting the castle. You're putting a moat around you. You own a castle. Ribbesford House. 20 bedroom castle in Kidderminster." "Where's Kidderminster?" "Midlands, isn't it?" "Yeah. Yeah. I'm renovating." "You bought a, yeah, you bought an actual castle?" "Well, I mean, some, there's a lot of people, a lot of my haters will say it's not a real castle. If I looked, if you showed me a photo now, would you go, 'That's a castle?'" "Yeah. He would. Yeah." "Wow. I mean, you can Google it. It's Ribbesford House. Ribbesford House. Ribbesford House." "How much did that cost?" "I bought it for 800 grand. And it had everything wrong with it. Derelict. Bats, Japanese knotweed, structural problems. Oh, my. That was, that was light. That's enough to say no, right?" "Yeah. But that was light compared to some of the other problems. The biggest problem was the bats. Bats have more rights than that's right. Tenants. Um, no planning for what we wanted. Nightmare. It has been a nightmare." "When did you buy it?" "2018." "Why did you buy it?" "Because I wanted to be able to say I own a castle. That's good enough. When you interviewed me in 2024 and mentioned castle, I want to be able to just go, 'Don't I own a...' That was why." "100% return on investment now?" "No. What did I buy it?" "To make money." "Yeah. I want to develop it. The gross development..." "£6.7 million." "How much you got to spend on it?" "Four. Probably about that." "So you'll be all in, including maybe even more, including stamp. You'll, you'll be all in for five and a half." "Yeah. I'll probably make about, I'll probably make about one to two million." "Why are you doing it?" "Forget that. I just want to own a castle. If it's a proper ball, L. It's Japanese knotweed, bats, castle. I didn't know that, though. But at that point, 2018, you're six years younger. You're 26, 27, probably. Is that a very different Samuel than it is today?" "Oh, yeah." "Would you know what, you know now, would you have bought a castle? To that castle today?" "Um, I don't have regrets from buying it because I've learned a lot, and I do think I'll finish it and make my money on it. However, no, I don't think I would advise somebody. I definitely wouldn't advise somebody in the position I was in then to buy it with no planning. It just doesn't make sense."

"Samuel, I've really enjoyed this." "I've enjoyed it too." "Yeah, mate. It's been brilliant. I'm going to know how much you actually enjoyed it depending on what month it drops. There's a seven-month wait in this." "Exactly. Yeah. But I've genuinely enjoyed this, and I've got to know you. And when we do these podcasts and stuff, as you see, I'm not scripted. This is all freestyle to actually find out about the person themselves. And you know what? I can see your journey. I know I can visualize your journey. There's been some along the way, there's been highs and lows, there's been pressures, there's been all sorts. But I think the future is really bright for you as a personality and as an entrepreneur and as a frontman." "I appreciate it. And, and, and I've enjoyed it. I think you're a great interviewer. So thanks for having me on." "You're a gentleman. Good man. Sam, bro." "Cheers, mate. Thanks." "Thank you." "Hi guys, I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Can you do us a favor and subscribe to the channel? It's totally free and it massively helps our show. Cheers guys. Woo."