How Family Offices Decide Who to Trust With Billions | Denny Chared

Kind of like behind the curtains, different rules. We're dealing with some of the biggest, wealthiest people on Earth. Many people see them with envy because, you know, they're wealthy. They shouldn't be concerned. They shouldn't be crying about anything. They got everything they need. It's not the case. I grew up with maids. I I didn't grow up with my parents. I'm not close to them at all. They basically gave up me to build this empire. She said, "I would give up everything I have if I had my parents when I was growing up."

Institutionals manage other people's money. Families manage their own. Huge difference.

>> Welcome to [music] the Purpose-Driven Capital Podcast, where we help you align your money with your mission and maximize your impact. Here's your host, Matt John's. For more than 20 years, Denny Haded has built and [music] curated a global community of family offices and high-net-worth families representing hundreds of billions of dollars in private capital across the US, Europe, the Middle East, and beyond. He's the founder of DC Finance in the family office circle, and he focuses on creating trusted [music] rooms for influential family members and those who manage their wealth. Denny was wonderful, incredibly open, and definitely his charismatic self. Welcome to my [music] conversation with Denny Haded.

I've got to ask you because I've seen you at a couple of conferences and um I know you're traveling around going to conferences all the time, but you're you're leading conferences all the time and you're attending conferences all the time. You seem to be on the road all the time. How on earth do you do all that?

>> Oh, and and we also have club events. We also have a family. Besides the conferences, we have a private club of ultra-high-net-worth who meet around the conferences, but sometimes also beyond that. So, it's a lot of travel. Look, my father was a a very famous guitar player. He used to go on on tours of like a month and a half.

>> Yeah. So, we came from music actually. So, um you know, I just you know got used to it and uh so and and many times the conferences that are close to one another we do the same week. So like LA, uh, uh, uh, Palo Alto, uh, you know, Toronto, Montreal. So like, you know, you go on a week or two and you do that and it comes with, you know, there are periods of time when I'm free, December, summertime. So

>> yeah.

>> Well, that and you you come a long way because you started out only wanting to stay in one location when you were starting out on Wall Street as a journalist. Um, I I'm I'm really curious though to hear how has your perspective changed from when you came into to your career, I guess not even the industry, but really the your career as a journalist on Wall Street, perceiving finance as you did then versus where you are now. How has that transformation uh kind of gone for you?

Well, I I was covering reports after the trade, you know, in the middle of the night trying to figure out what's going on because I was I was back then in Israel covering Wall Street and uh you know, translating Alan Greenspan to English and from that to actually what he meant to say uh is is one thing and and I feel like the f the office world is a parallel universe. It's kind of like behind the curtains, different rules, quite that's how when I when I first started to to to to even understand what's going on there, I really needed to interview people, >> families, advisors to figure out what's going on and what makes them tick and what are the problems. So, it's it's just a completely different uh world I feel. uh it helps me understand finance when I was covering Wall Street. But it's just a different world that that that really brings a lot of different things together like uh passion, investments, like personalities, trust, and a lot of issues.

>> Yeah. Very few people have the perspective that you do now with all the relationships that you have and that you've built over the years. and and you've got this incredible rolodex now that very few in the world uh can say that knowing all these famous people who are incredibly accomplished their families are accomplished by for generations and you've built up these conferences into something that that people aspire to go to and that takes time that takes trust. It takes a lot of faith in you as a leader to protect what they've built up over all these these years. But building that trust takes a lot of intention and uh it takes something else. And I'm curious to get a little bit behind the curtain for you and what that was like at the beginning. What were you aspiring to do and what did you actually do uh to build that trust and eventually grow it to where you had your first couple people coming in and then more and more decided to join?

>> Interesting question. and I should think about it. Uh, which I never really tried to analyze that, but uh I guess um uh I'm very straightforward. So sometimes, you know, it's too much, sometimes it's not. But I think a lot of families always are being, you know, people talk to them and and they're always so cautious that it's always so cold in the end. And when you're straightforward, they were like, "All right, okay. So let's talk." So that's part of it. I think another part is just to never give up. You know, I grew up on the right. Well, for me, music and films, right? So, when you grow up on Keith and when you grow up on on Judas Priest and when you grow up on on on on music that keeps on telling you you can do better, you and not grunge that just tells you how life sucks really. Or when you watch Star Wars and and you see Han Solo saying to the to C3PO and they're trying to go to hypers hypers speed he says oh the chances of making it are one to millions I said stop right there never told me the odds I think that state of mind of like you know you just keep on going uh eventually you get to those places even here with family so in the beginning I was I think I was um uh first of all I don't let go I I I reach out and then if I don't get get a response I'll try a different way. Back then I was lucky to meet two families and were just they were very prominent families and their next generations were bored. Now those two pe folks are so busy running huge companies but back then they were younger and bored and that's where I they started to have time to explain to me what's going on and how what's missing in the conference world what they would like to see and then they brought their friends and that's really how it started. So with several families that actually said, you know what, there's there's nothing like it here. We should talk about it. This is what I feel as a family that I don't get at a UBS conference. You know, doesn't matter, you know, how amazing the service provider is, how wealthy the conference is, how many slopes they're going to be doing at a ski resort. All of that they can do by themselves. They're not, you know, and they know that a service provider like a bank or wealth manager has an agenda. And when I we came and we said, we don't have an agenda. we all talk about everything that hurts. And I think that with the background of being a journalist and ADHD, I think the combination is great because you don't have time to hear, you know, boring stuff. You want to get to the interesting stuff. So I would many times think, how do I get them the real stories on stage and not just another advisor saying telling a nice polite story. So the son of Robin Williams who's a good friend speaking about mental health is a great example. the Silversteins, the owners of the World Trade Center, speaking about 9/11 from angles you've never heard before, you know. So, I think that combination kind of created a slightly different DNA. I see a lot of people in my space, you know, dressed up three-piece suits and ties all the way to their we have a club, you know, if you look at the logo, it's like it's like a it's like Disney World ride. It's not none of those all, you know, high-net-worth stuff that even they don't like anymore. no Latin words and scary letters in Latin and and and and two lions holding a sword. It's like, you know, I think we're just coming to families in a way more we are all the same. Let's talk. Some of them are in a in a golden cage, you know, and when they open up, you see a different world and that's where you need to get.

>> That's interesting.

>> So, either you hate, which is fine. I have a growing group of haters as well. or you like how we are and you and you actually appreciate the straightforwardness which I think those families appreciate. Not all of them are their cup of tea. But

>> did you ever make any mistakes early on? Things that you had to catch yourself. I mean, you mentioned the ADHD kind of maybe there's a little impulsivity with that. Was there anything that that happened you thought to yourself, "Oh, whoops. Maybe I shouldn't have done that or said that or I should have backed off."

>> Every single thing. Every single thing. I mean, I I spoke to my good friend uh uh uh Tal from Silverstein, and he once said, you know what, I think you're the biggest problem of the company. I mean, without you, it would have been going way way faster in of course, jokingly. Uh, of course, I think my my my problem is that many times I get offended, you know, if you don't return my email or something. I I think this is something we that you know, with families that are not used to that. Are you I don't feel like returning your call. Well, no problem. Don't return our call. you probably don't belong in our community either because we don't like ego. We don't like people that are I mean we're dealing with some of the biggest wealthiest people on earth. So as wealthy as you might be and I know you're you're you're waiting for a red carpet, we've probably spoken to a a wealthier fish family. So we just don't like that kind of attitude. So I've made many mistakes where I was like you know maybe I should have been more calm about it and and uh upset some people along the way for sure. I mean uh uh in many occasions I would have you know a conference where you know the the partners kind of annoyed us and if we would have let things slide we would have been in a better place. We're, you know, there's um, for instance, uh, this I don't regret actually, but part of the price we're paying is that, you know, a lot of groups in the so-called family office space that are not really real would be very, let's say, flexible about their speakers and how actually families they are. We're not. And then people get upset, oh, but in other places we're getting this and that. So sometimes maybe strategically it would have been wiser to let things slide sometimes, but definitely I made plenty of mistakes along the way with uh people that probably I should have interacted more calmly. But maybe that's also part of what we did achieve. So for sure, you know, I always call my good friend Tal for advice and he's calm and he's rational and he thinks about things and even when I'm upset, he's like, "Okay, so take it easy. This is how you should react. this would uh you know so that balance definitely helps me but I do plenty of mistakes.

>> It sounds to me like you developed a really strong culture from the beginning. Was that intentional?

>> No. Even even this whole thing wasn't intentional. I don't have this story that I woke up one night and I said I know what I want to do. I have a vision. I was unemployed. That's basically what where I was. I left journalism. I said enough is enough. I don't want to write about others. I want somebody to write about me one day. So I cannot be here. Even though it's not true in the world, there are amazing journalists. But back then I was in Israel doing very specific kind of journalism. I didn't think you could go to places. And then I was for a while unemployed and I did uh some financial writing and one thing led to another. So there's nothing like that that led me here. But I am who I am. Maybe that's part of what's missing that a lot of people are trying to be this and that and they're too polite and too this and we're like you know I got stupid sense of humor which I love you know I I grew up on on Monty Python and stuff like that and I like you know that kind of attitude and not that serious and and so again I think some people appreciate that you know and some people don't.

>> What are your conferences like from your eyes? because I I can imagine what they're like from my eyes and I can certainly imagine what it's like from somebody else who's coming into their club and seeing friends and things like that, but what's it like from your eyes when you walk into the room?

Look, it's a project that I'm happy that it will end at some point so I can take it easy and relax >> because you know there's a lot of stuff going. I'm interviewing people. you make making sure everybody it's it's it's it's a lot you know and sometimes you're like in a you know on a road show and on a tour you're going for one conference then tonight you have a dinner then in the morning you going to the next city but but but it's exciting because you I I meet every dot on the map that usually I have behind me when when you call me on Zoom calls uh we are in 20 cities is just a different world different world even even places that are close to one another when you go to Dallas and Austin different states of mind when you go to Beverly Hills and Palo Alto. So I think that's what is is exciting what will be happening today what will you know which families will and always the concern will we have enough people by 9 >> which is uh interesting and we end up having but it's always that

>> you ever look at the conferences and and you get to see the interactions happening you get to see some major things happening with the with the relationships that are there and the interactions that people are having are there any that that come to your memory as something that really stands out as something that you thought wow it had it not been for this platform form or this uh this organizational existence that may not have happened.

>> Well, I have a great example. Um so for instance uh one of the so we work with philanthropic groups as well. You know our conferences basically cover everything on the agenda of families estate planning next generation coin investing arts philanthropy marrying wealth more importantly divorcing it everything you can think about. And um uh when we work with philanthropic groups that's part of uh the discussions uh I always tell them you always preach to the choir. If you're the Jewish federation those who going to hear you and help you are all mostly the Jewish community. If you're an Indian foundation helping uh kids in in India that are poor same thing the Indian community. But when you come to what I do, it's so broad the topics that you actually have a chance to convince people outside of your circle. And Akaya Petra, who's the largest um Indian foundation, ended up raising capital or donations from the 7-Eleven family, which is definitely not Indian. Um and that's because they were sitting there listening to their story and and loved it. Another example, um, after October 7th, I did a session about minorities and anti-semitism. I brought two very known families, Spielberg and

>> you say Spielberg, you're talking about Steven, right? uh famous

>> so so actually his sister is doing uh a lot of documentaries about the uh about uh those topics and we did a session right after that and you know one of the most prominent families that you'd know their brand came later and said you know what this this this was amazing I mean I knew a lot of stuff just from here but now I understand things I didn't understand before so I think things like at are you know uh what you you really like when we do sessions about mental health and then you end up you know that somebody said you know what I heard that discussion and you know what I changed something I had um somebody calling me uh unfortunately uh out of the blue on a video call in the weekend on Facebook that I haven't seen for years and I was like maybe somebody hacked their profile. I mean nobody does that. I ended up speaking to that person and uh she said listen I will and she a major name from the marketing world in the family office world I got ALS I was diagnosed and I saw that you know one of the companies that presented that is is helping solve that if you can connect us I think these things are the special occasions that happen whether either at the conference itself or within the community of what of what we have here so yeah I mean I had a in in our uh one of the wealthiest families in Australia together with one of the most famous families in Chicago suddenly mentions online we had an online session you know what I don't know what to do with my kids now there do I tell them they're wealthy I mean they know they're wealthy do I bring them give them the aortion now am I waiting am I giving them anything at all and then another that other family started to talk about it and you had a discussion between two families that suddenly opened up so this is the kinds of things that you

>> that's interesting you you gave a lot of examples and not a single one of those was what I had in mind when I asked that question. I thought you were going to say there's this huge monument across this the world that was built as a result of a relationship here. But you're all of these things were talking about the human person. Every single one of them was about the person their their experience in life, not about what they're accomplishing. What with that in mind, what do you think are the most misunderstood things about working with families that are that are kind of in this this sort of stratosphere of u being behind a certain curtain or being untouchable in a sense? Um what do you think is most misunderstood that that maybe they would want other folks to know?

>> Look, I think everybody uh obviously and well many people see them with envy because you know they're wealthy. They shouldn't be concerned. They shouldn't be crying about anything. they got everything they need. It's not the case. You know, there's a lot of stuff that comes with it. For instance, many of those families have their own issues. You have a lot of stuff coming here, you know, suicide. I had a somebody uh that I've interviewed that uh one of the wealthiest families in Europe, he was talking about castles that they that they sold. I was like, you know, we we go here and we sell a house, you know, I don't know what it's like to sell a castle. They explained they wanted to sell the castle but not the mountain next to it. I'm like, "All right." But, you know, at some point of the conversation, I've interviewed this guy. He's almost crying because he said, "I I grew up with maids. I I didn't grow up with my parents. Um, I'm not close to them at all. They basically gave up me to build this empire." And some of the stories you hear and and there's a lot of pressure for the next generation. They're always on the shadow of the first generation. Some managed to take it million miles away from what even they have built. But for some it's a big deal. For some they need to fight harder than anybody else. They go to work at a company. Everybody looks at them as the kid that that the owner's kid is not talented. It's just because it's, you know, and they need to fight harder. You know, I was speaking to Gina Diaz. Uh I think the company is Telefonica, one of the largest um not one, I think the largest communication company in in Latin America. And she said, "I was a woman in the 70s. the granddaughter of the founder. I was nobody. I was the I was a woman 70s and you know and she came with an idea to put on a magazine for women and everybody were like you know let let her have it you know just she shuts up. It became the lo still till today the largest magazine in it on its kind. So in its kind so I think many people don't understand what they actually go through a lot of the trouble that comes with wealth and I think many would probably think that they that some of them are very arrogant which might be the case but in many case some of them are arrogant and nobody should talk to them because they're annoying but many of them what you see is just I think layers of of defense because all of their life somebody wants something from them even when they get married. They're not sure if that's real love or is that there's something here unless the other party is also very wealthy. So they are born with a lot of stuff that many people would say I I I was sitting with the nextgen that didn't want the money at all. She said I would give up everything I have if I had my parents when I was growing up. Which by the way is easy for her to say because she doesn't know what it's like to live with no money. So I would you know balance that. But I think what families would like people to understand that they're they have their issues. They have their problems that money cannot solve and some of them are amazing people but they're just, you know, were born into something that maybe some of them didn't want or they need to deal with what it means. So, uh, and a lot of them do philanthropy very quietly. Um, so they're good people. That's what I'm trying to say.

Yeah. And you hear a lot about the, uh, the challenges that they do face within the family, especially I hear a lot about the nextgen. And it's not a problem so much as it is a challenge that there's a very different perspective on the younger generation coming up with what the previous generation had wanted to accomplish or wanted to entrench within the family. What kinds of uh conversations are you seeing happening now uh as opposed to what was even 10 years ago? It seems like they they've really changed a lot in the last few years.

I think though the same maybe now people are more open in the sense of oh if my kid doesn't want to work at the business it's fine >> I let him have it but I think so that's for sure I'll tell you what have changed and what didn't change what have changed is that before people thought it was okay to work like crazy and not see their kids because you got to work hard to accomplish something in the day in the 70s in the 60s they build their business they were not at home I remember even which movie it was on Wall Street. Uh I'm trying to think about which which major Wall Street titan it was about where he's coming to his wife's birthday party and his assistant gives him the gift what is walking into the room to meet his wife. He was that busy. That has changed. I think today with technology for sure people get you know uh wealthy young and people have balanced things. You go you work out. Who worked out in the 60s? They worked their asses off. Nobody was worried about going to the gym. So I think people are way more aware that you know what we don't want to die just building this company. We want to be healthy. We want to be with our kids. So that's for sure. What I'm not sure has changed even though people are more open for uh to think about the fact that the kids uh might not like to work in their family business is is is still that some parents would want you to be as a kid in in the business. And I think sometimes without them even saying the the one kid that chooses to go to the business is somehow the preferred one which creates a lot of other problems. So I think that is still the the question will my kids work in the company business or not. Some you see different views. Some families are saying no way even if they want to I don't want them in the business because they'll end up fighting with each other. Let's just hire uh external folks directors and sell at some point. Others see it the other extreme. No I want it's a family thing. I want my kids to be part of it and some might be very disappointed if their kids are not there. So I think that >> probably has been there all throughout life and will still stay there but this is what has changed.

It's interesting. You were talking earlier uh about all the the interpersonal relationships and even philanthropy endeavors and now you're talking about the business and all that stuff when when you're talking about the intergenerational dynamics and I'm I'm it's funny because when I was thinking intergenerational uh and the nextg uh dynamics, I was thinking more along the lines of philanthropy because I've just been hearing there's there's a lot of desire in the younger generations to be more active in those philanthropic efforts as opposed to uh what it was in previous generations where it was more just writing checks and and doing good through other people's efforts. So, I I don't know. Have you seen anything along those lines? It sounds like you involve a lot of uh philanthropy throughout all of your conferences. I know it's a focus for you.

>> I just wanted to mention uh it's funny you've mentioned something that that I thought about about about the uh uh uh um work that you mentioned with families. I think what you'd also find is that some of them work harder than you'd ever dream. They take their kids and they make them go through everything from the bottom up. You know, the the worst things they can do at a at a major company. Let's start by by cleaning or by or by driving the trucks before you become anything. And real entrepreneurs I think uh and it's also interesting about family wealth would never ever stop. Money is not a question at all. Like if you look at people like Sam Zell, may you rest in peace. If you look at Larry Silverstein, the World Trade Center, the guy is 90 something years old. He's coming to work every single day. And they're tough with themselves. You got to work. You got to do this. And their kids as well. You know, they could have retired. They could have enjoyed themselves on the beach, write books all their lives. But Lisa Silverstein, which I happen to know well, will work hard on the weekends. That's part of life. Sorry, but maybe I didn't answer that question, but I I I was just uh

Could you repeat what

>> No, no, that's fine. I was just I was thinking about their philanthropic side as far as the next generation, but I I'm really interested too because you have to be very protective of these people because some of them are not just in the public spotlight, but they're in the public bullseye. Uh depending on where they stand either politically or maybe they've made a a stand in something with their business. So there are a lot of eyes on them and what they're doing and maybe even I don't want to say threats that's not where I want to go with this but there are people who would definitely want to give them negative attention. How do you protect uh the integrity of those relationships that you have and protect the environment that you've created for everybody to come in have a safe place to be um safe you have the proper boundaries in place uh for everybody.

>> So you're absolutely right. I mean there are families that also support uh or not supporting uh uh different issues with the current government or not and they are really worried about different aspects of what they do and uh um the way we we we wanted to handle all of that is not to have a side ever. We try not to invite politicians, not to be right, not to be leftwing, not to be religious, not to be non-religious, be as you know just just open to everybody. No media. We don't allow media to attend our events which could have been great marketing but it is what it is. No media is allowed. No, we don't even take videos for ourselves. No videos in our in our conferences.

>> Nothing. We just would take couple of pictures. So I think the fact that you know that there's no nobody that's too radical there makes it safer I guess. um families and it's funny because in my business you meet so different kinds of families you know we we're in Texas we're in New York we're in Palo Alto we're in LA we're in London we're in Singapore different mind we're in Dubai so it's funny when you hear the point of views of different families I mean they all have some the same things they challenge with but then of course comes the culture and and their personal belief uh it's interesting to see all of those uh different views.

>> I bet it is. And do you ever see I can't imagine you see a whole lot of clashing in these kinds of environments between all the political views. And I would imagine there's a pretty civil environment because they share this this unique uh status isn't the word I want to use, but I'm going to go with that right now. But they share kind of this unique status among each other.

>> Yes. I mean I mean there are some families that will avoid families that have uh issues with them. You know those that are getting into different legal issues, different IRS issues. So they're definitely the families that would stay away from folks that have anything like that attached to them. But otherwise I don't see no I don't see any any any particular struggles between them.

>> No not in my where I am.

>> Yeah. Now, one thing I remember you saying, I can't remember if I read this or I I saw it in person, but you said something to the effect of uh these institutional investors, they allocate, but the family offices build and they're growing businesses. They're doing they're they're actively growing. And it was a reference to society as a whole. I' I'd love to hear more about your thoughts on on that perspective because I thought it was really enlightening just based on my conversations with allocators versus family offices versus even high net worth individuals and folks. Um, how do you perceive family offices being those kind of builders?

Well, because that's what exactly what they do. It's institutionals manage other people's money. Families manage their own. Huge difference.

>> Uh, families are not most of them in a hurry, right? Uh, you might be a startup company or whatever. You go to a VC, they might push you to sell or to do a move that you you don't want to do because they want to exit. They need to to deliver uh results to their investors. Family will have a way different vision. They'll be like, "No, let's take your time because I know you're going to get there and it's fine. Take another three years. Who cares? You need a bridge loan." Okay? You you got your first investment from a VC. If you're going to call the VC again, they'll be like, "Okay, you got to meet one, two, three, four, five, and and and and meet all those boxes." And what if you don't meet all all those boxes? You're calling a family. You have a relationship with Joe. I need your help. uh I need this amount of money for the next year. There's an opportunity coming and I want to be ready. Could you help me out? Sure. I mean, if it makes sense. So, it's smart money. It's patient money. And when they investing and when it comes to building companies, for sure. You know, there's if you if you check a company that's traded, if you want to make compare apples to apples, compare family-owned traded businesses to similar non-family-owned businesses, you'd see the difference. the the family-owned are doing probably way better because they really really care. By the way, it also has a downside because nobody wants to sell. They don't want to sell the company because they're attached to it. So they think the valuation is way higher than it really is. So there's also that side things but definitely the families are the ones who build. It's a completely different universe from institutional investors which are investment machines here. There's a lot to you know what what about you you mentioned philanthropy. Some families will invest in a in an in an investment that has a a good impact uh on the world on on society on environment. Even if the ROI is lower than another investment, they will not touch something that might they might think pollutes the oceans but would give them great results. They don't care. So what? I don't need the money that bad. I'll go and invest the other guy. I'll make probably less but I'm supporting what I believe in. So you know many investor professional investors don't care about that. I mean they they care about making money which which is what they need to do. So I've seen investments al also families because they because they found out that the company has every 10th employee the handicap. That's the policy of the company. They they fell in love with the company. That's it. Game's over. Families can invest out of passion. Passion investment. They might meet you, look you in the eye and say, "Okay, this guy is completely crazy, but I love him. He's got the guts. He's got the power. I I'm going to I'm going to back that horse." And by the way, many very famous companies became very strong like uh Mobil. I I sat with one of the founders and they told me when we came, the companies that do the sensors, you know, for the cars, no VC wanted to look at us because they didn't understand where where do we fall? We're not exactly this, we're not exactly that. And and so that's how families build and also how families invest.

>> What do you think is the biggest lesson that you've learned? I mean, you've talked to so many people who have such a vast array of experiences that that have literally shaped our world as we know it. What are your biggest takeaways as far as what what do you think is a lesson that you will carry with you for life that you otherwise wouldn't have if not for these discussions?

that no matter what you do, I think at the end of the day, all these families will tell you what's most important is the family at the end of the day. You know, if there's something going on with the family, that's more important right now with the business. Uh, and we leave all of those grand things for that. Uh, so that's one. Another is dedication to to the business. I mean, I've seen so many families that just work very hard, believed in their business and it's not being spoiled and it's just working hard and and and looking and the long horizon. I think you know you take care of the company for the next generation, not just for the next couple of years just to have an exit what you might not see with a new wealth. You know there another discussion new wealth versus old wealth as well. Sometimes you're a tech guy, you just want to make a couple of bucks and and get out and and that's it. Which is kind cool. And I think the ones we're talking about, the brands that you know, the 7-Elevens, the Tabascos, the it's just a different DNA. You know,

>> I would imagine the new wealth is very very different approaching uh their their investment, their their philanthropic, sorry, philanthropic endeavors. They're very different in their their vision of what they're doing at that point because they're not thinking about who's given to them at that point. They're probably thinking about what they built themselves and what they want to build for the future. Is that would that be accurate to say or what's your perspective?

>> I think so. I think there are different kinds of entrepreneurs. I think uh most entrepreneurs especially tech something in their DNA in their heads I think just will never stop. Uh but again like Larry Silverstein it's real estate. they would never stop because it's not about it's about it's something in the DNA. something that's that's about getting higher and and and keep on pushing rather than oh just another making money was back then now it's it's so I think entrepreneurship even with new money uh some of them would just keep on going and some of them would just make one exit and and leave me alone and uh these are not the real entrepreneurs I think these are guys who worked made money and now just want to take it easy which is fine but of course there are different uh issues I mean my club the family office circle chaired by Lisa Silverstein. By the way, one of the ideas is let's mix new money with old money because new money can learn from old money about legacy, next generation, how do you transfer wealth or value stuff they have no idea they didn't even have time to think about. While the old money might want to invest with the new money because of what I just said. They never stop. They're at the cutting edge of their game. They're go-getters. you probably want to back them, but they don't mix enough because there are different upbringing, different cultures, different communities. So, it's part of what we do in the club is exactly that, mix new money and old money, mix different stages.

>> You mentioned the the drive and I' I've just got to ask this. I know I have one more question after this, but the regarding the drive, it's a chicken or the egg thing to me. Do they have the drive and that's why they're successful or do they develop the drive as a result of their success and they've trained themselves that way to continue in that direction?

Great question. I think it depends on the person. It's a very personal personal thing. Uh some you know like like to say the first generation builds the second uh kind of uh still maintains and the third ruins it. It's not always like that. I think uh sometimes the second generation takes the company 10 times higher. If you want to look it up, look at Carol Levin Bernick and Alberto Culver that was sold to uh uh um Unilever and there are many other stories like that. Um and but but I think you know the first generation usually it depends again new money or old money. The the old money that is now old money grew up usually in poverty and that's a great drive. My drive, by the way, is completely stupid, but it works. My drive many times is just because you in spite. Have you seen the the one u curio enthusiasm about spite stores?

>> Have you seen that episode?

So, you should. It's very funny. It's about those who opened a restaurant just to mess up because he went to a coffee shop and they uh annoyed him. So, he opened another coffee shop right next door. He didn't care about losing money, just to to to annoy him. And and you know some of my decisions how to grow the company are stupid like that. I went to Canada and everybody's polite. There was just one arrogant guy who told me you never make it here. Families are too private here and even if you make it here we know everybody already. I said is that so? And then I decided okay I'm going full speed after the Canadian market. That's was my drive. And I sent him pictures from the full house and from Easy Shop, the founder of the Four Seasons, speaking at the Four Seasons in uh in uh in Toronto. So, some of my decisions are weird like that. Um, but um my point is that uh uh um you see families uh uh sometimes that you try harder to prove themselves and the next generation would build it and take it to a different level. And it's a very personal thing. Um uh I forgot what was the question actually. Uh she could remind me to finish.

>> I think I started with the chicken or the egg. Which one is it? Is it the drive first or is it they develop the drive over time

>> there? That's where I got complicated. Yeah, because we talked about the drive sometimes. So I think that the old money a lot of them were growing in hell. War, poverty, and that drive that I'm never going back there. which by the way also influenced me and many other people. You just want to succeed because of that. So it's the drive others that were born into it. It's either the drive to to show that they're as good as the first generation or ex the exact opposite not to care at all and then and then it's just to keep what's going on going. I think tech people are very driven. You see the excitement in their eyes. So uh I think you see both. I think you see both. It depends on on on which family, who's the person involved, how many years the business is, how excited that the NextGen is about the first gen company. So I think you see both, but it's not like one family. You clearly have all these people who are driven and just that's just in that is literally their DNA is to do that. And then this family, it's just you have one person who's just unusually driven and continues that that path to success.

>> I think again you I I think you see again both. I think you have families that are like cults, you know, uh uh when you look at In and Out, when you look at Chick-fil-A, and I I think there are very very serious uh companies that the drive just keeps on going from one generation to another. But again, I think there are different stories that would, you know, it really really depends. But uh it starts with a crazy drive uh and and and having uh the and biting bullets if you need to, you know, and rolling with the punches and keep on going because you want to get to places. Lots of Jewish people who came and and build empire after running away from Nazi Germany. So I again I I think you see a mixture of of of of types of families and business.

>> Then at the end of all this, what do you because you're building more than a business here. It's a community. It's it's it's a legacy for you, too. So, what do you hope you accomplish when when it's all said and done? People look back and they say, you know, I went to all Denny's events and he he helped with so such and so forth. What do you hope people are saying at that point?

I hope uh that that we managed to really create a conversation that matters and that uh uh brought you know people to be uh open about how they build their companies and share and without again I I don't like all the mumbo jumbo crap that sounds funny in my world of wealth uh wealthy people but that's why I think we create a different kind of conversation you know and that's what I like to to to to to have in my conversations and now we have the conferences, we have the club as I've mentioned to you. Uh I'll be hosting uh soon an interesting podcast as well. I think all these different uh uh uh discussions, different forums I think will create a community that's hopefully will be very very interesting and

>> well this has been very interesting and different for me too with Denny. So I really appreciate you taking the time. You've been very generous and um definitely looking forward to the next time we run into each other.

>> Thank you Matt and I'd love to do more of those. We hope you enjoyed [music] this episode of the Purpose-Driven Capital podcast. If you found this valuable, be sure to like, [music] subscribe, and share. Are you ready to align your money with your mission? Discover the purpose-driven capital [music] framework, access practical tools, and build meaningful connections to grow your movement, and multiply your impact at purpose-driven capital.co. The views and opinions [music] expressed in this show are solely those of the individuals speaking and do not reflect the views or opinions of Honeyhive [music] Capital, any broker, dealer, investment advisory firm, or its sponsors. The content is for informational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing in this content nor any communications from it should be treated as constituting financial, investment, legal, tax, or other advice of any kind or as a [music] recommendation to buy or sell an interest with respect to any investment. We look forward to you joining us next time.