Transcription
Hey everybody, can you hear me? Audio is working okay? Excellent, excellent. All right, so let me... it's just getting all wet. So I'm still drying out here. It's outside and got attacked by a sprinkler. All right, so we're recording and we are talking about elements today. So elements are really interesting. Let me pull up my notes here. They give us another clue as to how signs operate. Why do we have the associations with the signs that we do? So let me pull up my picture here. There we go. Can you guys see that? It should be on the screen. Excellent.
All right, so when we're looking at elements, we first want to look at where the sun is in the zodiac through the year. And this is looking at things from the Northern Hemisphere. I apologize to all the people in the Southern Hemisphere, you flip things. I'm sure that you're well aware of that. The people in the Northern Hemisphere probably aren't. The reason that we work with Northern Hemisphere interpretations in astrology is because about 85-87% of the population lives in the Northern Hemisphere and traditionally has lived in the Northern Hemisphere.
So we are looking at where the sun is. It is in a certain sign. So we're looking at here the first day of spring, which is Aries. That is the beginning of the wheel, the first day of Aries, the spring equinox. And this can vary. The exact day can vary from year to year. I think this year is the 22nd that it's occurring. So this is when the day is of equal length to the day that falls on the autumn equinox, which is the first day of Libra. They are even.
Then we come down and we look at the first day of summer, so the first degree of Cancer. So this is where we have the beginning of a new season. So see, we have the beginning of a new season in Aries. We have the beginning of a new season in Cancer. This is why these are initiatory signs. These are cardinal signs. And then the sun moves through Leo, moves through summer, moves through late summer, and we come to the autumn equinox, which can vary in date from year to year. But this is when the day is of equal length to the day at the first degree of Aries, the spring equinox. So then the sun moves through fall, mid-fall, late fall. We come to that first cusp of Capricorn. This is the beginning of a new season. So this is, these are initiatory signs, the beginnings of new seasons. It's starting out a new phase. Then we go through the winter and late winter and we come back to spring. So there's a seasonal quality to each of the signs.
And when we're looking at elements, which are triplicities, elements contain a quadruplicity, elements contain a, a modality. So when we're looking at elements, which is triplicities, we are looking at signs that naturally do well with each other. They naturally resonate because the triplicities are either going to be fire, earth, air, or water. So trine signs, try, triplicity, trine signs are always going to support each other and do well with each other because the quality of temperament is harmonious.
So when we're looking at the fire signs, which are Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius. See how they're red? Those are the red signs. We're looking at the beginning of spring, the middle of summer, and late fall. So they all contain a, a modality, a different one. We have the, the, um, cardinal in Aries. We have the fixed in Leo. We have the mutable in Sagittarius. And all of the trine signs operate that way. So when we're looking at fire signs, these are generating signs. These are enthusiastic, extroverted, male signs. So there's a dynamism about the fire signs. And think about the qualities of fire. It can be destructive. It can be extremely helpful. There's something extreme about the fire signs. So there's a confidence that comes with the fire signs. They are not, uh, conscientious energies. We are very much about acting on a feeling when we're looking at a fire sign. And the different fire signs have that slightly different quality of how they act on that, depending on the modality. So we have the, just the out and out extroverted energy of energy. Then we have the extroverted yet steady energy of Leo, which comes after that out and out extroverted energy of Aries. And then we have the out extroverted energy of Sagittarius, but it is dispersive. It is not something that is, um, steady. So they have different ways of acting out their elemental quality depending on the modality. So these are dynamic, outgoing, fun signs. And they are always compatible with each other because of the element.
Now let's take a look at, well, before we move on, let's just go a little bit over the modality mixed with the element and then we'll go on to earth signs. So Aries, the cardinal sign, begins the whole wheel. This is the most initiatory of the sign. So it starts the fire. And then we look to Leo, the fixed sign. Fixed things always keep something going. The fixed energy is a steady, supportive energy. So Leo tends the fire. Then we look over at Sagittarius, a mutable sign, and we see that Sagittarius disperses the fire. Sagittarius shares the fire. So they're different in how they operate, but they are similar in what they are operating on or about.
So let's look at earth signs. We have, these are the brown signs on the wheel here. And this is my wonderful personal artwork, everybody. So this is what it looks like. I know it looks like a seven-year-old did it. It's just the way it is. And some of it's off-kilter as well because my program kept crashing and I just had to go through it as fast as I could before it crashed again. So we're looking at the earth signs. These are the brown signs on the wheel here. Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn. These are the steady signs. These are oriented towards things that are of the earth, which are practical experiences. Can somebody mute their microphone? I think somebody's got some background there. There we go. Thank you. Sorry, guys. I just spilled my tea all over myself. Give me a second to recover here.
So we have the steadiness of the earth energies, the, uh, orientation more towards what's at ground level. So we do things in the earth signs. These are, uh, signs of action, but it is again, more of a sustained, steady action. It's not an initiatory action like we see in fire signs or cardinal signs, actually, too. So these are more slow signs that are resistant to change. They are more about practice makes perfect. And they are always going to be supportive of each other. Trine signs, again, doesn't matter what element they are, always harmonious. So, um, these are more materialistic signs because again, they are more grounded towards earthy things, material things. That doesn't mean that they are shallow signs, but they are more geared towards tangible things. And these are, uh, slower signs as well. So these are resourceful activities that we participate in. When we're talking about trine earth signs, they all support each other. We begin supporting ourselves in the sign of Taurus. We continue to perfect the way that we support ourselves in the sign of Virgo, and we reach the peak of that in the sign of Capricorn. So that the way that we develop through the earth signs, the way that we develop our practical material resources, skills as well, that's a big part of what earth signs are building on in succession.
So Taurus, a fixed sign, is going to gather in what was begun in Aries. And this is where we start to realize, organize, and build our resources in this particular earth sign. Then we look at Virgo. This is a mutable sign. This is going to make something from the materials. This is going to refine and practice with the materials that we gain and gather and organize in Taurus. And then we look to Capricorn, cardinal sign. This is when we're going to, uh, roll those, roll what we learn or have come to or peaked. Let's come to a peak over into the next thing. We're going to start something new. So, um, yeah, acquiring, practicing, coming to a peak, and beginning again is what we're seeing in succession in the earth signs. And they will always be in support to each other.
And now we look at the air signs. So we have, these are the light blue signs on my beautiful artwork wheel here. Gemini, Libra, Aquarius. These are social signs. Air signs go everywhere because you cannot contain air. It goes everywhere it wants to go. And we all share the same air. We all also share the same water. So there's a relationship that builds in the air signs. So, uh, these are communicative signs. We have, um, the communication in Gemini, the partnering through communication in Libra, and the community that we come to. Community, communication, those two things are related there in Aquarius. So we can see how what we learn and what we communicate reaches an ever broader audience or an ever broader, uh, social group or consequence as we look at how the air signs successfully act upon each other.
So, um, Gemini is our everyday relationships, the relationships and just our everyday environment. My brothers and sisters, neighbors, the people that we deal with in our close associations, sort of casual relationships. Libra is our partnership relationships and more of our formal business relationships, partnerships among equals, contemporaries, and very much in there in Libra. And then Aquarius, we come to our group communication or group associations, the way that we relate to each other more in our broader network, our more human network of humanity. So these signs are oriented elementally toward thinking. These are cerebral signs. Think about the quality of air. It's, uh, think about the, the, the sayings that we have about it. Airy fairy, head up in the clouds. Um, there's several different sayings that we associate with the quality of air, that it's somewhat, uh, I'm saying uncontainable, unmanageable. So, um, it carries information. Air also carries seeds. It carries the seeds of, spacing out, that's a good one. It carries the seeds of what's to come. The air is a huge factor in, uh, bringing the seeds or the ideas generated in one sector of the world or the psyche into another. Birds also fly on the air. Birds use the air to themselves, drop seeds from one end of the globe to the other. So our ideas are carried in the air element.
So, um, the air signs will always complement each other because they're trine. Trine signs always do well. So we look at Gemini, the mutable sign. This is where we make our initial connections, where we build our initial skills. And in Libra, the cardinal sign, this is the beginning of autumn. We come into committed partnerships. We build upon the skills that we've acquired in Gemini and bring that to a different type of relationship, a more contemporary relationship, a relationship with contemporaries, with equals in the seventh house. With Aquarius, we're going to build on that by bringing the skills that we came to in Gemini, built in Libra, refined in Libra, and then we see the more ultimate results of that. And what does our network look like? Our friendship, the quality of the associations that we have with our friendships, especially our adult friendships, the people around us. So we have a social impact. We see the social impact there for social creatures. So the qualities of our socialization in Gemini reach this almost global effect, you could see in Aquarius.
So let's look at the water signs. So these are the dark blue signs on my incredible graph here. Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces. So these are emotional signs. This is the element of water where everything is underneath. We don't know what's underneath the water unless it's completely clear. Most water is not completely clear. And it still offers us a certain amount of illusion, refraction of light, magnification of objects, even if it is completely clear in appearance. So water signs are indicative of what is beneath. These are the unconscious signs. We have the prenatal unconscious, the personal unconscious in Cancer. We have the group consciousness, the societal conscience in in Scorpio. And they all have a different association with their type of water as well. And then we have Pisces, which is the collective unconscious. So we have the amniotic environment, amniotic fluid that is common to all of us in Cancer. We develop in, initially. We have our collected sewage in Scorpio, which actually tells you a great deal about a given population. In fact, our personal garbage can pretty much tell you everything about us. If you go through somebody's garbage, it's the best way to get to know them. Scorpio is that same quality. So, uh, we have our collected sewage in Scorpio. And then we have our collective oceans, the collective ocean of the unconscious, and the collective ocean that all of our continents and islands live within. That ocean connects everything ultimately.
So, um, water signs are empathetic. They are complex. They signify unknowns or secrets because again, we have to look beneath. There is, uh, you know, something very mysterious about water signs. These are the mysteries of life, the things that, uh, we can't stop asking questions about. That's why they proceed fire signs. So there's a private, high, sensitive quality to all of these signs.
So let's look at the individual, uh, sort of ladder that, well, the, the connected ladder of events connected to these trine signs. So Cancer, the cardinal sign. This is where we come to our first feelings of belonging. This is the first tribe that we belong to. So this is our first experience of what it is to be a part of a collectivity. And then, oh, also protection, our first idea of protection. And then we come to Scorpio. This is a fixed sign. So this is, we see the continuation of the protection that was started in Cancer, the, um, the honing, the, the refining of the type of, uh, initial emotional experience that was begun in the sign of Cancer. And then we come to Pisces. This is a mutable sign. This is where we have the ultimate social consequence for what was begun in Cancer. So this is where the prenatal comes to bear on the collective unconscious. So we have the, the total sharing, the big blob in the sign of Pisces. So we have, um, very much this association between what is, you know, our most primary personal experience and that having this ultimate consequence on the collective unconscious. So that prenatal environment is everything when it comes to, uh, creating the conditions and circumstances that can have the, uh, more ultimate positive or negative effect, or just what is the nature of the ultimate effect that one can have on the everything, the collective. So very, very interesting how the elements, uh, work. How they help us to understand the, the succession of activity and of psychological development that we see through the zodiac wheel.
So do we have any questions about anything that came up during that particular explanation? Anything unclear? Roxanne? Okay, so you consider Pisces prenatal, but also like the old, at the same time, like the most evolved, but also prenatal because it's where it's the big blob from whence we all come from. It's the big blob that we all go back to. And see, Aries springs out of Pisces. So for every ending, there's a beginning. So Pisces implies the beginning, just as, um, actually, as well, all the cardinal signs imply a beginning. And Pisces being the end, again, it's going into, it's dispersing, it's, it's sharing everything that has happened. So why does Pisces get all the cool stuff? They got all the cool stuff. All that. I also have a reputation for having the exact thing going on with it as well. We find our ultimate freedom in Pisces, but we also can find our ultimate imprisonment. This is institutions, prisons, it's insanity. It's also complete clarity. It depends on how we've chosen, how we developed, what does our individual path look like for us. So yeah, very interesting. Anybody else have anything to add? Kenya, you always have something super wise.
Well, thank you. That's very kind. Um, I, uh, had a couple of observations. One, and not to be, um, overly mercurial here, but on the chart you were displaying, just in case you plan to use it for future classes, the autumn equinox said October 21st. Thank you for pointing that out. I will change that when I put it, when I attach it to the lesson that I send out for the audio. So it does look correct. I appreciate that. Again, yeah, kept doing it fast as a program kept crashing. I thought it looked very sophisticated. And then also, um, with water, I tend to think of, um, Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces as the three, the three states of water. Cancer, liquid. Scorpio, solid. Pisces, gas. Oh, yes, absolutely, absolutely. That's a great way to explain it. Absolutely. Yeah, Pisces is something that is, uh, is, is the universal solvent. It's also aerosols that are connected. Can you repeat what that was again? So an aerosol. Think about the questions. What I can just say. Oh, okay. That the water signs are, you can think about the three different states of water. So Cancer would be liquid, and it's cardinal. Scorpio would be solid because it's fixed. And Pisces would be gas because it's beautiful. Yes. Wonderful, wonderful. Thank you. Observation there. Excellent. Um, and we do see the coldness associated with Scorpio as well. Um, so yeah, things that are in aerosol. When you spray something into the room, it disappears. Also, you know, like that, the illusory quality of fog. You know. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Um, the, uh, Pirates of the Caribbean exhibit a few years ago started using this interesting method that I thought was so Piscean when I saw it. They'll use, I think it's, it's just a spray of CO2 and it'll project an image onto it. So the image is, you can kind of see through it, but you can't. It's like the ultimate Piscean visual. If you ever get to see that, I'm sure you can pull up a YouTube video of it. In fact, if I find one, I'll send it out to the group with the lesson because it's so indicative of the qualities of Pisces. Okay. Also, is today the last class? It is for this module. Yeah. Yeah. Any other observations or questions? Anything to add? No. The second part is on sale. I, I think, right? The second part is what is like, is it still being sold? I already bought my, my second class. I think there's still slots. If there's not, I'll open up. Just email. Okay. Second one, I'll open up another, another seat. Yeah, I already bought it, but awesome. Well, I'll see you there then. Um, so should we go into just general question and answer about everything that we went over? Yeah. But you said air signs are trine. So does that mean like water signs are also trine? All just they're trine to each other? Each other element? Okay. Yeah. Yes.
So never mind. Okay. Kind of thinking out loud. Okay. And we also have, um, elements that are in agreement with each other because we have the sextile signs. Also butter and jelly aspects. Yes, absolutely. They complement each other. They're not the same, but they are, uh, in good relationship to each other because we have, um, let me pull up my picture again here. Where is that? Okay, because we have air and, I'm sorry, fire and air, the sextile signs. Aries and Gemini. We have sextile signs, uh, Taurus and Cancer. So we have earth and water. We have a good agreement between all the sextile signs because they're not the same like trine signs, but they are close enough in nature where they have a great deal of natural affinity for each other. But then we can also look at the square signs, which are elementally very different from each other. We have Aries, say, in a square sign to Cancer, fire and water. We just push, put each other out. And that actually makes steam. Fire and water creates steam. When you see that in somebody's chart, think steam, especially if you see Mars and Neptune, which are by nature for a fire and a water planet. One of my daughter's first best friends was, she's a Cancer and her one of her first best friends was Aries. And I was like, this is going to be very interesting, quite a learning experience. They're attracted to each other. You know, I guess that's, they are. It's not necessarily compatible, but it's like in a private thing. When others come into the equation, it becomes very, like, especially Aries. It doesn't seem like she didn't want everyone to know, which was, I, it was just kind of interesting to just kind of watch that one play out. Yeah, very interesting. Uh, that's an elemental mismatch that we see quite often. And even functioning relationships, they're not perfect, but oftentimes people feel like what they're lacking in each other. Well, you know, it's like we're attracted to each other, we're growing, uh, we have our reasons for being together, but it may not be a compatible match. But, but we're still pushing each other in the right direction. So we want to see in relationships a good amount of compatibility and reasons for growth. Because if we don't have some hard things going on, we're probably not going to remain interested in each other for the long term. There has to be some points of tension there. But we don't want so much tension that it's going to be disharmonious. For the most part, we're looking for, you know, more harmony than not. But we have to have some amount of friction in order to keep things interesting, in order to continue to keep things growing. Oops, excuse me. That's my low battery. Let me fix that. Um, I, I have a question. Um, what about, um, inconjunct signs? Like, what was that like more of like degree instead of like their elements? I don't know. Element is enough. Element is enough to have like suns or moons or sun and moon or planets and in conjunct signs. We'll still have that essential quality of not having anything in common and really having a very exotic attraction to very exotic differences between the two that over time we can find are a bit annoying, but they're initially very attractive in relationships. Uh, we tend to be more annoyed with each other faster when we have the square or the opposition. Works its way in a little bit more over the course of time. It's like it builds in a more annoying, insidious way. Very insidious. Yeah. Um, so I've been like non-stop like studying and like on like people's charts in my life and it's blowing my mind how much, how much of a novice I was a few years ago. And my ex has a ton of inconjuncts, a ton of squares. And I'm just like, oh my god, no wonder you are the way that you are. I'm all like, oh, and then I, I came, we both have sun square Neptune. So we don't see ourselves. And we're trying to see each other through each other. And it, it didn't work, obviously. We're broken up. But I was just like, I came, I just came to that realization this past week and I'm like, holy wow. And my girlfriend was like, you won't figure that out in a therapy session. You found that out from astrology. And I was just like, I feel so much better about everything. But yeah, it can make things happen quickly. I like an astrology to being above a labyrinth. And you have a picture of the labyrinth. So a labyrinth is the brain itself. It's a picture of all the folds in the brain, all the nuances of the brain. And astrology just gives us a picture of it. So we go right to the center and go right to the areas that we want to go to. With psychology, it's like we take the therapist's hand and we go through the entrance to that labyrinth. And we're walking through it. It can take longer, it can be more expensive, but if we make it to what it is we're looking for, we may not. But astrology is much more effective, I think. So used in tandem with therapy or psychology or behavioral science, whatever modality you want to use for self-exploration, I think it just enhances it. I don't necessarily think that it's always a replacement for therapy. I think that, you know, used together, it's wonderful. Um, because I think sometimes we can freak ourselves out when we're looking at astrology. We could just, yeah, look at the extreme or have an expectation, you know? Yeah, it's good to get a second opinion. That would be when the therapy part comes in. Sometimes that could be with a friend. That's me. Yeah. Just give you another perspective of how that could or what that really like another thing in your toolbox. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Yeah, it's, uh, it's a wonderful tool for, uh, self-realization and for learning to get along with other people. Learning how to get along with them, right? Because sometimes we can see something in the relationship and with the use of astrology, it can give us the knowledge that we need to smooth over that rough spot or sometimes to avoid it entirely. So yeah, I just wonder, does anyone else here have like sun, moon, and rising in different elements, each of each different one? Alex, does? Is she? Yeah, I'm a fire and like, and like I have that and all of them are fixed. I just kind of wondered what someone else's experience with that. Interesting. It's so weird. I haven't really met anyone else that has that that I actually never talked to. Well, you have a very grounded, more, I would say, more more practical lifestyle, don't you? Have a very like practical job and live more in a practical area of the country and have some fixed, basic fixed qualities about about yourself in general. It's like such a clash though, internal, like fixed with everything, but like internally, just thought-wise, it's kind of like balls bouncing back and forth off walls all the time. But, but I'm still in like an auto, just still do everything. But while I'm thinking different things, I don't know if that makes sense. But so interesting. So differently talk about different layers of personality. Like I'm saying things, but I'm not feeling what I'm saying. And then something else is telling me to do something else at the same time. It's strange. Yeah, I don't know another way to explain it. I'm just going to pull your chart up here for a second.
Does anybody else have anything to add? Yeah, I like to think of like, um, I saw this meme once for like, they were saying psychology, personality types, and astrology. The people who care about that, um, it's sort of like a love language to them, like to be understood because they've never felt understood before. So like, I think, I think so. There's, I think threads that you could find in the personality personalities of people that are attracted to any one thing. Like, uh, you know, people that have certain jobs, they'll have, you know, say, basic kind of personality that drives them to that. Yeah. And astrology's not so different. I noticed in, like, my boyfriend's, he works with like mentally ill and, um, people with drug addictions. But I noticed like almost all of his co-workers that I met, nurses, it's like, like more than three-quarters of them have Aquarius moon. I just thought that was pretty interesting. They all like that, like they just want to figure out what's wrong with people and like help them with it. I think they all have what Aquarius moons. Oh, okay. All of the nurses and the therapists working with mentally ill people or drug addicted people. I just thought that was interesting. Yeah, the science, the science observer part of the personality seems to be really. I actually work with that population too. That takes a lot of heart. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm probably going to have that population growing going into the future as we come into, uh, after, you know, going into 2023 when we start to see, um, a different type of economy start to evolve. What do you see in 2023? What is coming? What's the change? Um, you know, I'll send you my economic chart. Who else would like to see that? I'd love to see that. I'll send that out. I have a couple of stock charts that I use that are crazy accurate. Um, so there's a rhythm to, I'll send it to you, Maria. There's a rhythm to economies. There's a rhythm to markets. There's cycles within cycles. When you're looking at finances, real estate, um, astrology can very much describe those and account for those. So we go through cycles of Saturn, Uranus. We go through cycles of Saturn and Jupiter. And these are the boom and bust cycles, the big economic cycles that that we look at. So when we look at say, stock and real estate peaks and falls, we're looking at about a 40-year cycle. And coming into 2022, that will be the peak of the stock and the real estate cycle. And then we start to see the fall from that. We start to see really a lot of foreclosures coming in in 2024. And that's when we start to see real consequences, economic consequences. But we'll start to, I, we're at the near the peak this year, but to 2022. So if you are, and I am not giving financial advice, I'm giving my opinion here, everybody, through this whole thing, disclaimer here. Um, I'm just telling you what I know and in what I do. So what I know through my experience, if you do not have a house that's paid for and that's what you're selling to buy another house, this is not the time to buy a house. If you have a bunch of money, this is the time to buy a house. But, isn't also not the time to buy stocks? That will be in after 2022, or we're hitting the tipping point in in there. And then then it's going to be time to start buying a house after about 2023. Um, I have my graph downstairs actually. If it's 2032 when we reach the bottom and then go up to recovery. Why are you laughing at me, Kenya? I'm not, I'm not laughing at you. [Laughter] I find you endearing. Oh, that's funny. Um, so there's a cycle, there's a rhythm to things. And, um, so that will be the time to buy a house because we're going to be nearing the bottom. We'll be seeing more foreclosures come in. This is just a predictable thing that we see every 20, every 40 years. So there's no real science to it. It's just looking at predictable cycles and looking at the effects of money printing because money printing always has a consequence to it. And we can time that and understand what that is when we look at it more in the long term of the cycle. So, um, I will email you guys my charts and, you know, when I send out the audio to the lesson, and you can take a gander at that. Morgan quote about astrology? Oh, millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do. Yeah, exactly. I know. There are actually financial astrology firms that the people make a lot of money working for those firms because they do have some high-paid clients. There's also astrologers that are on speed dial around Vegas for bookies as well. That's awesome. Cycles are a real thing. That's interesting. Yeah, it is. Any other questions? Yes, I have one another question. Yes. So, um, I was wondering how do they affect on the interpretation of the polarities and the modalities and maybe also the elements? So if I have, [Music] the first house and in Leo, but it's retrograde. So I feel that I'm kind of fiery, yes, but it's not this, yeah, so I don't think that is a real fire thing. If Mars is retrograde. So I was just running in general, how would you interpret that? So retrograde planets in relation to what we've talked about. Okay, so that's another lesson, um, that I will talk about extensively when we talk about planets in, in the planet section, uh, when we get to that. That's next in, in the next module. So retrograde planets are turned inward. They are not, they're more of an introverted force rather than an extroverted force. We could also look at them as retrograde, uh, when we look at that more in the philosophical definition of the word, like it's not progressive, it's more of a force within us that is reflective. So when we have a retrograde Mars, look at it like Old Faithful. Have you ever seen Old Faithful? It's in our national park here in Wyoming. It's this geyser, uh, water, you know, builds up and then it shoots the water out. So that's how Mars functions for most everybody who does not have a retrograde Mars. You know, the energy builds, it builds, and then it blasts out. But with a retrograde Mars, the energy builds and it builds and it blasts out, but then it goes right back in on itself. So we suffer from more inflammation, we suffer from more internal frustration, we suffer from feeling like we can't move forward in the timing that we want to. So that's what we're learning. We're learning to really work with that essentially introverted characteristic that we have and learn to, I, I want to say it takes some energy. It takes some extra psychic energy. It takes extra life force in order to get that to move forward. That's right. So it's, it's more of a gentle influence in your chart. And we, we want to be careful about suffering from body inflammation when we have Mars, especially in a physical house, especially even if in the sixth, if it's in the first, especially going to be very, very good about eating foods and participating in activities that are anti-inflammatory, that are, you know, bringing an alkalinization. You want to be alkalinized in in your system. That could be very helpful to dealing with that Mars retrograde. I also find like those people tend to, um, because Mars is obviously has a lot to do with our competitive drive as well. And it's like Mars retrograde people are competing with themselves. Yes. You know, and the best example of that is like Michael Jordan. He has, um, a retrograde Leo Mars, I think in his second house. Um, and he's like, he was his whole career, he was just scared, literally, because no one else to compete with because of what his own drive was. I mean, no one else could match him. So he was literally trying to compete with his own record. Yeah. Yeah. That is how it functions. Absolutely. I wonder if Tiger Woods has a retrograde Mars. I've never looked, but it wouldn't shock me. I'm sorry, I don't know when he had that accident, but I don't think I remember seeing that. I don't know. No, but a lot of athletes do have retrograde Mars's. Yeah, that would not surprise me. And Mars an aspect of Jupiter as well. I see that a lot. See that a lot, especially with horse women. I see that all the time. Horse women? Yes. I have the opposition actually between Mars and Jupiter. So Oh, you've got it too. Celia. Yeah. Yeah. It's a fun one to learn some self-control there. Yep. I have, uh, with Mercury, I have Mercury and Jupiter retrograde. Um, Mercury could be a little bit easier to tolerate. It does tend to make us reflect more before we speak. So there's just this naturally introverted quality. Doesn't mean we are introverts, but the ways in which introverts will rehearse what they say before they spit it out, that's very much a Mercury retrograde thing. So I think it can make us more mindful when it comes to the presentation of our information. And there's some could be some really good things about having Mercury retrograde. We can be a bit more reflective than just outpouring with our conversation. So it could be a lot of brilliance. It does come from that. And then the outer planets, they are retrograde up to six months out of the year. So it's not unusual to have retrograde planets. In fact, it's very normal to have retrograde outer planets. It's more unusual, but not abnormal, to have all planets forward or all planets retrograde. We're going to be a mix on average. I do see charts where everything is all forward. We do have those months out of the year. We've had a few months out of the year this year, actually, that was happening. Roxanne, what about Chiron retrograde? Uh, the asteroids. Very minor thing. When they are retrograde, retrograde tend to hold on to their wounding a little bit tighter. That would be a retrograde thing. Yeah. A retrograde thing. Yeah. I run retrograde too. I think it just can make things, uh, more internalized. So like, you mean like, uh, continuing to repeat the things that are causing the wound? Or like, just holding on to the pain from past? The repetition can be a thing that in, you know, when we've experienced pain or suffering or trauma, that that we do is a way to try to master the situation. That's not always the, the case a hundred percent with the retrograde Chiron. I think it, it's more that it's longer to, takes longer. We're more stubborn about it. Um, we're more, you could say tied to or attached to those painful things. Like slow motion trauma. Well, yeah, gotta talk us out of it a little bit. That's a bummer. Retrograde. So it just makes it a little bit more tricky to deal with, as all retrograde planets are a little bit trickier. And they are, they're all asking you to, I feel like all the retrogrades are asking for a reconsideration. You know, it's like, before the planet does what it does, like, we can explore what it's trying to accomplish. I have a question for you too, since this has turned into asking astrology. What is your opinion on stationary planets in the birth chart? Because I am a Capricorn ascendant, the stationary Saturn. And it was actually, I mean, it was at such a standstill that it almost came to a complete halt. Yeah, I have that Neptune in my chart as well. Yeah, it's not unusual to have a stationary retrograde or stationary forward planet. Stationary direct, uh, and you're also stationary direct. It was a, it was about to station direct. So a couple days later, it went direct. Okay. Okay. Close enough. Um, so that's a planet that has a particular fixed kind of energy. It's something that is, um, in my opinion, it holds more weight in our personality because it's like a part of our psyche that I almost like sits and spins. There's not a lot of natural, I want to say, like growth built into that part of ourselves. So when you're looking at a stationary direct or stationary retrograde planet, from Earth, it doesn't appear to be doing anything. There's no motion. And so the, we are simply a repetition of those forces that were psychically, we're repeating those forces that we're looking up and and so I would say that it holds more weight. And it's like a part of ourself that like has this secret pervasive influence in our personality. That was one of the ding ding ding light bulb moments I had when I really started to understand the weight of my stationary Neptune in my chart that, you know, I could really look back and see that woven in through my early experience and the way I looked at the world and my super, super romantic early ideas, which become much more grounded as time has gone on. So yeah, I think it, it holds more weight in our personality and it's, it's almost like the ghost in the machine, a lot of times, a stationary planet or stationary retrograde planet. It's, it's interesting navigating something like Saturn, especially as the, like, you know, the ascendant ruler, because Saturn already is so stubborn and slow. Now ten times more so. Just like, what karma is this? What did I do to inherit something like this? Is it interesting? Well, I think you could also look at it as the offering to take a complete total responsibility for the course of your life because it's like the wet blanket. It's on. It's like a weighted blanket, you could say. And to learn to negotiate through life with within the confines of that blanket. That could be the ultimate Saturn lesson of learning to work with what you've got, learning to work within the resources that you've got. So it's like, if, like a chef, the mark of a great chef is someone who can walk into a kitchen and see what there is and then make something out of it. A great chef is not one that has to have all of the perfect ingredients. They see what's there and they come up with something. Or like an artist, where you give them the tools to create their art and they'll create something out of whatever tools you give them because it isn't in the tools, it's in the expression, it's in the personal creativity. So I think that's the karmic offering that could really come from that is learning to work with what you've got and make the most incredible recipe out of it because that really is the mark of a talented human being. So like a lot of good could come from it. It is a bit of a heavier, heavier lesson, but that means we got a heavier reward. That's how it always works. I'm, you know what though? It's, it's, I mean, it got off to a crazy ass start and I was like, okay, all right, let's go. Um, but I'm leaning into discipline. That's what it's about. I think that's been the biggest takeaway. And, and yeah, just echoing a lot of what you said around, um, working with what you have. You've got. Yeah. Yeah, because I think that does, uh, cause us to be incredibly inventive and original because necessity is the mother of invention. So I think it, it could force some real, um, so some real practical growth in ways that you could, that you could serve, you could learn to serve others. It's not a bad karma. You always look like you have a secret. Like you always just like, that's so funny. I was just thinking today, I was making my coffee and thinking, you know, I don't want to have any secrets because you're only as sick as your secrets. But here I am holding weight in this way of like, you're saying something, but there's so much more behind what you're saying. And I like it in your eyes. And I'm just, you just wanna, you wanna pull it out, give it to me now. We're scratching the surface. Yeah. This is the question, um, of Roxanne, Neptune square Neptune transit. Oh, is it like we get that at a certain age? Is it like a second midlife crisis? It comes during those years. Uh, we have, I'm having it and I'm afraid. Well, it depends on how you handle Neptune. Um, you, I've got your turtle right here. Neptune is actually not a bad dude in your chart. Um, coming through Sagittarius, fifth house, only good sign, only good aspects. So I wouldn't fear that one. Um, but let me pick that up in the transit. Hold on. Okay. Yeah, that's already been going on here for a little while. So I think you're out of the woods when it comes to dealing with it. But that is something that does have us bringing our youthful ideas about life and love and romance and what we're going to have when we grow up into a clash with the realities of life. It's a disillusioning transit for a lot of people. So like most transits, for me, I don't know if it's for everyone else, but I don't see any effects until like the very end of it, and then everything comes at once. And I'm just like, thought I wasn't. It can also be after the transit has completed because it has set off a new cycle. So often times we're looking for, especially when we're looking at financial and mundane cycles, we're looking for action actually after that transit has completed. So because that's the activity that's going to build until the next phase in the cycle, the momentum that are still going. Yeah, still, it's still going on. It's not like, you know, that's the end of what happens there. It's the opening to what's happening there. Do you look at death charts? Uh, you know, time of death for people? I used to be really into that because I wanted the power of being able to know when I was going to die. Then I figured, you know, I really do not want to know that. I think that would be the worst thing that I can. I don't, I don't mean for like predicting, but just like looking at this. Yes. Yeah, quite extensively. The types of transits that come through that could cause death that we see at time of death are actually kind of frequent. So there's not, there's not like any one transit, but when you look at it retroactively, it's usually pretty easy to pick out. Because my mom recently passed away, she has a twin brother, and he just recently was diagnosed with the same bone that she had. So now that's like what brought on my fascination with that. Like now I'm just like watching all of these transits. Like I'm not anticipating anything. I just thought it was really kind of interesting to watch that for people that are twins. Very interesting. I think that it's, if we have somebody who is struggling, say, with
Their health or that has a difficulty that they're dealing with, and then we look in transits and progressions, and we see that there's more layers of difficulty and stress incoming, you know, coming. It's a good predictor that we're having some things pile on here. We may not have the best outcome, but we can't say that death will occur.
And then we could look opposite to that and say, you know, somebody's struggling, but we see that there's actually a really good window where there's not a lot of pressure or difficulties that are coming up in transits or progressions. And then it's a lot easier to say that they will likely be improving during that period of their life. So I use it as a real rough estimator in those kinds of situations because we're looking at predictable cycles when we're looking at transits and progressions, not so much, but transits, yeah.
So I think there's some logic to it, but I don't get caught up in too much prediction myself about things that are not practical. Things like real estate investing, that's those are practical things for me, and, you know, with practical outcomes of practical cycles. But, um, yeah, I'm a little bit leery about looking at, uh, things that take away the spirit of life. And I don't look at my own charts every day. I'm aware. I don't look at mine ever. I look at everyone else's. I do not look at my own stuff. Well, I accept that, you know, you know, significant transit or progression. And because I want to know what is the lesson, because often I went ahead, headed off, I just want to learn it on my own and take that matter into my own hands. And so when that comes, I get the reward. I look after the fact that this just happened. Let me see what that was about. That's helpful. That is so helpful because it gives us clarity, like, you know, why was I, you know, under so much pressure? Why did I go crazy? Why was it so irrational? It can make us understand and then prepare. But if we see that thing coming around again, like, man, I know I'm probably going to go off the deep end again, so take matters into my hands before that comes. Uh, that happened to me when I had my progress moving opposite to Mars. I was just so jittery. I had so many emotions. I was so, uh, it was just a period of a week where your circumstances, conditions, and where I was and what was going on. It was a very fragile week, and I ended up crashing a rental car into a pole. Nothing really happened. I crashed it because I was backing it up. So it was when I say I've never ever had an incident like that in my life. I've never had a ticket. I've never had an accident. I'd never speed. But that week, I was so mindless, even see it behind me. So I know when no one comes around again, don't rent any rental cars, just stay home. I, I need to retreat. I need to not get caught up in it because I know what can happen during that progression. And I engaged in it. I didn't go in the way that was going to bring a calmness, you know, mindfulness. And oftentimes, that's just what progressions are. It's showing us get caught up in the moment. It's just showing what's going on with us. And sometimes in astrology, we can even know, even I can know, but I'm still gonna have my humanity take over and get to learn some lessons there.
So do you, um, do you ever use astrology more along the lines of a supportive tool for intuitive, like, um, inclinations or downloads or anything like that? Like, do you have an intuitive practice or approach when it comes to astrology at all?
Um, do I? No, I don't think I do. I don't think I do. I think I look at the facts. I look at the charts. I think that's why you're my favorite because you are very factual. And you just, because I like all this stuff too, but I still need to have somebody that's telling me the truth. And that is, and it's factual truth. I, I like that. Well, I appreciate that. It's all my Virgo. It's, it's all so boring. Um, so I just look at the facts and the evidence. I love Virgo. And I can extrapolate from that. But I think there's something to be said for listening to a part of myself that's not rational, that maybe, you know, it may be a feeling or an intuition inclination that, um, you know, maybe somebody is, you know, just additional information about them. Now, that's not going to be something major. That's not going to be like, I know that your dead grandmother wants you to look behind the couch because there's the will that you've been missing. You know, I'm never gonna see something like that because I don't believe anybody can. I do believe that there are some people that are so deeply tapped in to the collective unconscious or to the collective Pluto conscious, and they can bring things up that are only, in my opinion, within the frame of archetypal thinking. It cannot be outside of what the mind can formulate. That's the unknown. That's Neptune. That's what can not be conceptualized. So something can be conceptualized, it can be known. Um, it's part of life. And so if you know, I, I get really, uh, I get uncomfortable when I have clients come to me and they've been to an astrologer that saw a number of things. Like, you know, they, I had somebody come to me once and said that I, you know, I went to an astrologer and they said, I am going to marry Justin Bieber because they saw it. They saw it. And this is my soulmate. And I want you to confirm this for me. Like, I can't do that. I can't. Like tarot, I can't. I don't know why tarot. I think it's cool and stuff, but I can't. I can't follow it. I just don't.
Well, I think tarot, I use, but I use it in a very psychological way. It, tarot to me is a deck of archetypes. That's all it is. It's a deck of archetypal experiences that, that is that are common to all of us. And the tarot reader pulls the cards and they read what the cards mean. And it is the person being read for that interprets those cards through the lens of their archetype associations and beliefs. But it's still about like, they're asking, you know, spirits, give me and what, you know, spirits, help me or tell me or this is what I want from the cards. And it's like, well, I don't, I don't. It's just like luck of the draw. It's not like, you know, where I can't see the spirit that's helped that's there shuffling the cards for you, I guess. I don't know. I have an observation with tarot readings. It's not fortune telling. Sorry, I can't. I apologize. We'll go right back to you. Oh, I didn't mean it. I just wanted to comment on it because my sister is really, really, really good at tarot, but she does. It's not fortune telling. It's not. You don't. You can't come to someone who's going to read your cards. When's this going to happen? It doesn't work like that because of free will. And most of the time, the person who's getting a reading already knows what's going on. They just need someone to tell them. And that's, that's what the cards do. So you hear the story and your mind picks it up and runs with it with the meanings that you give to things. Yeah, so that's how it works. Mm-hmm. My opinion. And I did it. I have a lot of thoughts about a lot of what's been said because, you know, I don't know how I feel like I've made a lot of, um, my approach and and beliefs clear and a lot of what I've offered in the discussions throughout the past. We're all gonna have different ideas and it's okay. Yeah. Okay.
Well, I definitely like, I'm someone who is very concerned with how the, the tangible and the intangible talk to each other. You know, how the practical and the seemingly mystical meet. Um, and I've been like that with everything my whole life. Like I'm a musician, right? So like I love theory. I love studying theory. I'm good at theory, but there's something to be said for what can't be ascertained through theory. And I feel like astrology is similar in that way of like, you can learn the theories, you can learn the science and and the practical approach, but, you know, the other part of of the self has to, or I think that you get a more holistic experience when the intuitive self also can fuse with the practical self. And kind of, what does the intuitive self look like? What is the intuitive self? I don't think it's something that can be, you know, reduced to a concept. Exactly what you're saying, right? But so the Neptune is that interesting though, because you know, you say and you know, nothing can be gleaned, um, that that doesn't fall within the realm of archetypal thinking. But the unknown is an archetype. Well, it's undefined. It's, it's beyond concept. I think there's a way that you can express something that isn't, it goes beyond concept. It's like when you're communicating with someone and you're not using words. That could happen. It doesn't understand. Yeah, that could happen. We could have a meeting of the minds or a meeting of the emotions or, yeah, we can vibe on the same plane. I think. And those experiences, but in my opinion, being in that space is not going to be able to tell us, you know, what our dead relatives think. That's just like, for example, say schizophrenic people that hear voices. Like, how do we know that they're not really hearing somebody or something that they're just, it's a fabrication? Like, how do we know that? Moon says, how can we label them mentally ill? How do we really know, you know, what they're hearing? I have phones on the mothers, the schizophrenic drowns in what was it? Sorry, Jung has this quote that the mystic swims in the same waters that the schizophrenic drowns in. And there was that other quote that, uh, brilliance comes with a certain amount of madness. Yeah, there's a fine line between being that is beyond, you know, um, societally acceptable practical thinking. And why has it become society, societally unacceptable? Like, at what point did they decide to state that it's there's something wrong with you?
Well, I just think it depends on where you live, where culture you live. I mean, say you live in the tri, the tribe of the Messiah. Yeah, don't have intuitions and, uh, feelings and things that to them are very, very real. And in their culture, they enforce that and support them with each other. So it depends on where you come from. There's also, I work with that population. And there's also a certain point where, um, those voices definitely become maladaptive. Like, some, yeah, the clients, some of the clients have command voices telling them to harm themselves or others. So you can't really argue that at that point, there's, you know, a good result of that. And then also as to the other question of like, whether they're really hearing voices, um, I took this course in abnormal psychology and they showed these brain scans of people with different disorders. And in the scan of someone with schizophrenia, they have the same, um, neural activity as someone in an actual conversation. So to them, like, they're constantly having conversations in their brains. Like, their brain looks exactly like we would right now, even if nobody's talking to them. Right. So it's a biological issue that we're looking at. It's not really a spiritual issue. Um, which, yeah, but do we know that, right? Well, we do, but we don't know that. But we do know that there's a biological. Yeah, we do know. Yeah, but I mean, but we don't know what else is going on because there's no way that we can measure it using the science. They're definitely talking to somebody for something.
Well, I think when we're dealing with schizophrenics and people that have an issue with delusion and an issue with, uh, you know, not being within reality and interpreting realities, the common brain. I would look at their lifestyle. I look at what is the outcome of having that kind of thinking or that kind of personality pattern. And it isn't healthy. They're overwhelming. In astrology, do you see it? What do you, if you're looking at charts, and do you see the same, you know, patterns in mental illness? Mental illness? I mean, it's Mercury, isn't it? Mercury, Moon. It can be. No, we can't. We can't diagnose it from the chart. You can look at it because we can see certain alignments in certain aspects that are pointing to the possibility of complexes, the possibility of certain patterns of behavior, thinking. And, um, but not everybody who has that in their chart is going to develop those specific complexes. So you want to use, yes, because we have situation, we have condition, we have, uh, drugs, we have environments. The environment is so critical to human development. We can have certain genes turned on in certain environments. We can have certain behaviors show up in certain environments that would not show up in other environments. So that's why the houses are very important to look at because that's showing the specifics of situations that we may be involved in. But when you see mental illness, I think the birth chart is something to look at to ascertain where that is in that person's birth chart, to not use that birth chart and say everybody who has this birth chart is going to have the same outcome. Does that make sense? Anyway, I was just saying to my, to drive my point home. Yes. Let's hear it again. I, I think there's something to be said for finding that happy medium between what is theoretical and what is, that's the balance between Virgo and Neptune. Absolutely. We're going Pisces. That's a balance. We don't know everything. We don't. Not everything can be known. And I think that that, that there's facts and, uh, things going on that maybe we don't even have the capacity to understand. Because look at it, look, well, look at a dog. There's things going on in a dog's world. There's facts in that dog's world. There's scientific things in this world that that dog will never be able to understand because it has a dog's mind. We have a human mind, but I think we don't even fully understand what that means yet. You know, and so it's, it's interesting. I think it's important to continue to push the confines of what the human mind can understand and interpret, while not seeking to become all knowing. Well, then we wouldn't be curious. We have to be curious, right? Being open. Yeah. When someone's too esoteric, it turns me off. And when someone's too practical, it turns me off. Right, right, absolutely. Because I think, you know, just pure science itself denies the esoteric. And pure esoterica denies the science. And you got to meet somewhere in the middle because it's always the middle ground where the truth is. Um, so to kind of related to that, uh, uh, I was just thinking about like the discovery of Pluto, for example, of when there's new planets that are discovered. Does what does that mean for, like, for example, for someone like Abraham Lincoln? Does that mean he would never have lived a Plutonian life? Or, oh, you just didn't know what to call it. No, we discover new planets as we need a new symbol to describe our human experience. So as, uh, the outer planets were discovered, we were making these corresponding discoveries. By Uranus, we came up with the idea of democracy and of liberty and of the individual. Neptune, we came up with, uh, ether and poisons and, um, uh, ways of relating to each other that are more inclusive overall within the human family. Pluto, we discovered plutonium. We discovered how to kill ourselves. We discovered the bomb at that time. So as we go forward and we change, we, we grow into a way that we could not have foreseen. Nobody could have foreseen what happened when we discovered those outer planets. It was a totally new era. So, um, Dane Rodyard, the infinite French astrologer and philosopher, predicted that we will find another planet and it will likely be in your young people's lifetimes because we will require a new symbol. And he believed that it would be called Persephone. So I tend to agree with him. I think our ancestors also, you know, someone like someone living in Abraham Lincoln's time, it's not that they didn't have the influence of those planets in their life just because they weren't discovered. However, I do think something expands in the life cycle as the consciousness blooms. Yes, that's exactly as a progression of. And yeah, so, you know, like we're not even, our our ancestors, even a few generations back, you know, they weren't living to be on average, they weren't living to be in their eighties and nineties. Um, and, you know, we have people alive right now who are having Pluto oppositions, which is crazy because that's, yeah. And our other generations used to get their Pluto square much later in life. Right. Now they used to have their midlife transits in their fifties. Right. Exactly. And now we're having thirties. So one of them wasn't crazy. You know, yeah. So I think there is something to be said for how bringing, you know, these broader, um, broadening just the scope of how we understand our relation to where we are in the solar system and how it functions, how that does actually influence the life cycle. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I think if you could say, look at the chart of Abraham Lincoln, you could look at Pluto as a personal influence there in his chart that, yes, it, it, it was there because it's, um, you know, part of the personal psyche. But I don't think that we consider it as a major societal influence. It's a little bit different.
I see. Anybody else have anything to add or ask? So if Persephone, what do you think? What will it symbolize? I've been working on that and I'm not, you'll send us that. You send us that in the email. It hasn't gelled. Um, I probably need some more months to work that one out. And oftentimes, I do it in the bathtub. I do my best work in the bathtub. Is the corrupted maiden? Right. You, you have the secret face on. [Laughter] Give me. Well, I have thoughts. I just, I just haven't verbalized them yet. I actually had a professor that accused me of that once. I remember saying that you're hoarding. Are you just getting rewarding information? Um, so it, well, look at the story of Pluto and Persephone. You have to look at the relationship between the two of them and really understand her individual personal archetypal significance, which is the ability to, uh, how I want to synopsize it here, and I'll probably alter this as I learn more. The ability to live in a place that is absolutely not ideal to realize that you come from something better. So we all come from something. Pisces, well, come from something, something else. An archetypally, it's what we all imagined to be a paradise. And then we come here and it's like, we're being squeezed into a little toothpaste tube. And we have to operate within this framework of misery. But it's like something that's always been there. We just haven't found it yet. So it's in there, just as the other outer planets always were. So this sounds like learning how to, uh, live in a, a truly apocalyptic society and, and how to live being a spirit. How to live in a way where we are, we're able to deal with, I would say, the natural nihilism of realizing that we are a spiritual being having a physical experience. And that that's the one thing that we can all agree on. We don't know any more than that. And we could say that the spirit is simply the spirit of humanity, if you want to really isolate it. So we're the Pisces stuck in a body, just stuck in this body. And how to happen, how to, how to negotiate away with that. That's what Persephone did. She found a way that she was able to exist and to survive it all. So I'm sure I'll add to that. That's my preliminary. Also, I need to take more baths. I need an, I need a deprivation float tank in my basement. And I can really come up to some good, good, uh, answers there.
What do you think about, um, like, like, um, there, oh, I don't even know how to put it, when they're taking, like mushrooms and all of these psychedelics? Psychedelics can help. Psychedelics open. They sublimate the ego. They put us in a position where we could see beyond, uh, the confines of our identity and what we need, you know, thoughts that we constantly have to support the idea of ourself. Psychedelics make it easier to see beyond that. So I think that they offer us access to different parts of our brain and, uh, different levels of human experience and can often blur the line between reality and, I say that Piscean state of undefinedness. I started watching this stuff on how they're using transits to navigate when they're going to use these experiences so that they can go to specific places. Oh, sure. Oh, absolutely. Really people that are having a heavy Moon Pluto transit. I tell them, get yourself to some ayahuasca because that is the best send that you can use under that particular kind of transit. So there are some, they can help dislodge pain. They can help dislodge different parts of ourselves that have yet to be known that have been represented. I think I would say that if you haven't done psychedelics before, definitely do not start. Don't do it alone with ayahuasca because ayahuasca, I went to Peru in summer 2019 and I considered doing it. Um, and I've done shrooms before. Um, but my Spanish teacher was like, yeah, it's like 10 years of therapy. So a lot of people think they're ready and they're really not. Um, because all your traumas are going to come out and like confront you. So I mean, you definitely have to be guided through that. It can. Well, that's what it's meant for. It's meant to open that door to what is repressed. And it really is the trap door to our Pluto. Yeah. And, um, [Music] also, I guess, like, lots of times there's like a specific diet that you should be following, like two or three days prior. What part of, what part of the brain does that open? What, what chemicals release? Like, how does that? I'm not sure of, like, the science, but like, um, a lot of people, for example, do go to South America for like mystical tourism. And like, our tour guides were like answering some questions about it. And they were saying, like, for example, if you go to Peru and your shaman, or whatever, speaks English, probably full of crap. That's really. They wouldn't even probably speak Spanish. They might be Quechua or like a more local dialect. So he's.
Well, I think that that whole experience, myself, has been corrupted. You know, even, oh, yeah, yeah. Up to ten years, it's commercialized now. Yeah. Turn it into a tourism industry. You're gonna have people doing it for money. So myself, I don't suggest that people go to South America. But do you think there's something to? I think there are many people who can benefit from it. And ayahuasca is like layers. Um, you ideally would want to do it in, you know, succession, you know, several different, uh, experiences because it's like peeling back skin. And, and you were, you are a psychotherapist and a psychologist. Most of my education in psychology, the majority of it. So we're, I don't know, is it psychology or so? Did you prescribe medication? No, no, no. You can't do that unless you're, uh, like a nurse practitioner. Yeah. If you're interested in understanding how ayahuasca and psychology can help each other, I suggest that you look up Dr. Gabor Maté. That's who I started watching stuff about. He has a lot of experience. Yeah. How to use plant medicines for certain people in certain conditions. It's not for everybody. And it is something I think you do need to be responsible about. And it's not for. He's been doing it since like the beginning, sixties, right? Like he's been doing it. No, I don't know about that, but, um, he has a lot of experience and has written a few books. Which, uh, Canadian psychology. Yeah, yeah. Like, I haven't heard of him. Yeah, he's, he has, uh, a lot to say about it. Uh, but so I think that there are certain, uh, therapies that under certain transits and certain progressions are very helpful for certain people. And I would say just regular old psychotherapy. Psychotherapy during any heavy Pluto transit is going to be helpful for anybody in any circumstance anywhere. We need to have some kind of outlet at that point, or even some kind of voice of reason that can help us muddle through. So I might be biased as a therapist myself, but I honestly feel like everyone could use therapy. Absolutely. I think that it's something that in the ideal society, I think that we would all be going in for some kind of counseling, you know, at least monthly. Yeah. So there's no shame in it. It's something that actually shows strength and that you're willing to accept help.
Do you have any, any, um, like insights or comments that, like, the current political situation? A lot of comments, but I tend to keep those to myself when it comes to politics, um, because I don't want to be a divisive figure. But, um, I think that we are going into a period of great social change. And it's, uh, as a result of the Uranus-Pluto conjunction of the 1960s that opened the door to a more inclusive society. And every time we have transits where we have a planet of progress and a planet of tradition meeting, we're going to have some significant tension exploding among the population. So with a lot of planets going into Aquarius, I do think that we're going into a new vision, a new idea of what will be. And that new vision really came about during the last transit of Pluto through Aquarius. This is where we really started writing, um, you know, ideologies are coming up with ideologies that were about the individual, they're about liberty, they're about freedom. Europe was going through a, uh, a process of coming out of being ruled by kings and tyrants and going more towards democracy at that time. So, uh, it's a, it's another circle in the spiral when it comes to getting us closer to the ideal of that Golden Age of Aquarius. But we never have, uh, progress without, I gotta hit the bottom first. So this is the backlash that we're having.
There. Alex, did you have anything? Yeah, I actually have a really heavy Pluto transit coming up because I have four planets at the early degrees of Aquarius. So 10 years, I think Pluto is going to be going over that stellium. And I was just wondering if you had any recommendations or anything like that.
Well, I would look in your chart. See what is your relationship with Pluto? Do you have Pluto in any aspect to those planets that will be transited? It's sextile to my Sun and Mercury and not a terrible relationship that's going on there. So I wouldn't think that there's a ton to work out. But, um, because people that already have a highly charged, that have a lot of Pluto, but I have a lot to puke up. That's what they're gonna be doing. But it's like, if we don't have a lot of content, you know, to begin with, it's gonna be, we're gonna be less stricken. So there's, um, there's a way that we'll all do some self-discovery. Even under the lightest, easiest Pluto transit. We ain't gonna get out alive. We're going to have at least some parts of the sky and renew. So Sun tight conjunction with my Pluto, like one degree. So it's every day for you. The Pluto trail. You ate this stuff for breakfast. There's a fearlessness, I think that you'll come to after that transit's complete and realize that, um, the things that you've wanted to let, that you needed to let go, it was appropriate to let them go. You don't need to regret it or think that maybe she should have done something different. Whatever we're urged to separate from under a Pluto transit, something we need to separate from. So there's some pressure, a lot of pressure to for self-examination and to change it. It takes a lot of life force to change. I think that's why we avoid it so much is because it takes psychic and physical energy. And so we have to be willing to allocate that to that area of our life and to not resist. So it's a major mutation of personality is what I would say is going to occur.
Um, so when does Pluto go into it, go into Aquarius? 124, 124, 24. When we will be going into our, uh, more difficult economy. So you said 124, 2022? No, in 2024. Oh, in 2024, that's when Pluto is going to go into Aquarius. Yeah. Oh, okay. So, yeah, it'll be new social ideals that we build. We're building more, uh, you know, new, uh, structures, new, uh, ways of managing ourselves, monetary systems, and governments. In Capricorn, it's a bit different. And the longest Pluto transit we've had in a long time. It'll be 20 years. Forever. Yeah. Pluto spends remarkably less time in some signs than others because of his wildly unlimitable warning. Yeah. Okay. It was good to be with you. It was good to meet all of you. Some of you in the next module. And Akina, I'll see you in a few minutes. Thanks, Joe. You got it. Guys, thank you. Thank you.