Olympic Glory, NBA Pressure & Representing Australia | The Howie Games

Well, this big man has just wandered into the studio. Tommy went downstairs. He said, "Well, I think I'll be able to pick him." And you certainly can. Jock. Welcome to the Howie Games. How are you, big fella? You're in slightly nervous 'cause you got a big gig on tonight. But before we get to that, great to see you.

>> Yeah, good to see you. Thanks for having me in, mate. Great to have you in. You wing and I thought he'd be pretty relaxed cat. You're a bit concerned about a media commitment you've got tonight, mate. What's happening?

>> Well, you know, only back for a short time. Managed to, you know, usually when I come back, I get sent a little deck, yes, nos on on on, you know, media commitments and things I might want to do.

>> Thanks for saying yes to this.

>> Absolutely. Uh, this has actually been on my list of things that I've always wanted to do.

>> Oh, that's cool. Thank you.

>> I reckon for about 8 years now. So, anyway,

>> that's kind of you. Thank you, mate.

>> Meant to be going to AFL 360 tonight. I am going to AFL 360.

>> Yep. And, uh,

>> I used to be a big big footie fan. I've been to, you know, calling finals. I'm a Collingwood man through and through. My old man was great grandfather, all that.

>> Uh, and I have not watched a game in about 5 years. And to be completely honest with you, I'm in half a mind to walk on there and just say, "We're we're calling this AFL 360 for dummies."

>> I think honesty is the best policy here.

>> I reckon as well because I don't want to go on there and have them be like, "Oh, so you know, what do you thought of this year?" And LA, mate, I came up in the Allen Daidak era, you know, all all of those boys. Travis Cloak a little bit later. That was kind of when I was really really interested in it.

>> I mean, obviously Pendles has been around the whole time, but um yeah, mate, I'm going on to this thing and and and I think my my I'm I'm hoping I can string out talking. I don't know if you've seen, but I kicked I I describe it 'cause I'll put it in here. So, uh, AFL, they sent me a couple balls because, you know, I I just missed having a kick and and and and I had a few boys in Houston who kind of either had lived in Australia or were Australian.

>> Y

>> um, and we're like, mate, we should get a ball and have a kick every now and again. So, I ended up I ended up hitting up um the AFL and they sent out Dels out and first day I get these balls, pick one up, pump it out, I take it out to the main court where we play our games and I walk onto that court and this is no word of a lie. I've been called a liar on this, but this is no word of a lie.

>> I'm not prepared to call you a liar.

>> And I I walk on the court. I I I yell to one of the fellas down the other. I said, "Turn the camera on. Watch this. Now, I've had some bloody incredible moments the last year, which I'm sure we'll get into. Married to to to my wife, had my firstborn kid. The single greatest moment of my life

>> to this point is that I walked onto that court and I kicked that ball fullourt through the net. First try.

>> First try.

>> First try.

>> OH MY GOD. SEE, you're a bigname American sports star. So, I think you just wander into 360 and saying, "Right, my rider is I ain't coming on your show unless we talk about Collingwood in the 210s and you show me vision of it going in there."

>> That's that that's the that's all we need to talk about, isn't it?

>> I'm sure your wife when she listens to this will be happy that you saying kicking a Sharon or basketball hoop was better than your wedding day. I saw on Instagram yesterday which touched me 'cause I can remember back to my first Father's Day. You got little Arch and you had your first Father's Day.

>> How was that? And it's immediately made you smile, mate. Congratulations to you. You and your wife. It's it's a great thing having kids.

>> Yeah. Uh I mean, first and foremost, I have to just touch on the on the point with my wife. I said this to her face and she just she laughed and smiled and she said, "Yep, I get it."

>> Again, honesty the best policy.

>> Correct. Um

>> Oh, mate, that was a very very special moment. I mean, two special moments with with my son, who's incredible, Archie.

>> Um, you know, he's been he's just been the best addition in the world to my life. But, um, I I I I flying home with him and and landing on Australian soil. I don't know if it was the jet lag or the or the fact that we' just flown 15 hours worrying about our kid the whole time. I was I was a little bit emotional.

>> He was born in America.

>> Born in America.

>> So, his first touching down on Aussie soil two weeks ago.

>> And you got emotional. I got emotional for whatever reason. I think I just I'm I'm

>> true blue Australian. um you know really care a lot about the the country and its culture and um you know I've been away for north of you know 10 years now and it's a place that I think of so fondly and I think that just having that having that moment where I realized I was like oh mate you're finally home and where you know you might have been born here but this is home for you and this is where you're going to grow up and and and experience your first kind of bits of bits and pieces in life.

>> It was a touching moment. So that um as well as uh with my old man and and getting up to the farm for Father's Day, which uh was a really special moment just for the family in general 'cause we've had that farm in our family for 180 years.

>> This is up at Deniloquin Way

>> up in Deneloquin and he was the first of the seventh generation to to have feed on the on the soil out there. So that was that was a pretty cool and special moment to do Father's Day up there.

>> Just hold the thought. I love that. I want to ask you about the farm and and how it shaped you and your family history. Just before that, it would be remiss of me not to ask,

>> we're all in a lot of WhatsApp groups.

>> Have you been involved in WhatsAppapping your man Josh Giddy this morning?

>> Unbelievable.

>> Well, reportedly, and we'll speak money with you, but reportedly four years 100 million, which is about I think it was estimated 150 Aussie. So, he's pulling about 42 mil Aussie. Tell me you've texted him and said, "Congratulations, big fella."

>> I did. And

>> that's extraordinary.

>> Honestly, Giddy, it's funny. It it's a weird thing admiring a bloke younger than you for whatever reason. Uh, but but I admire

>> Happens more and more as you get older. Trust me.

>> Yeah, fair enough. Uh, I I admire GS. I mean

>> what what he's been through in the first four years of his professional career as a young man

>> and and and to have to deal with the scrutiny he dealt with and come out the other side of it with a hund00 million contract. Like it's it's you know it's stuff that you you get a little you get you get chills thinking about it. It's like this guy this guy has been through so much more than he should have as like a 23y old innocent bloke and he's come out the other side of it stronger better and and he's got something to show for it. So um yeah I text him. I just said mate I'm I'm I'm so h you know I just said you know simple like so happy for you welldeserved you know enjoy it and and we'll see you soon. So, um, yeah, I mean, Gibs is G is he's a sensational character. He's someone who deserves all the success that he has coming to him. Um, getting to play with him with the Boomers for the first time and getting to really know him um was awesome because I it he reminded me a little bit of myself at that age when I was just so passionate about the sport and I really had um nothing else on my mind than basketball. And that's the kind of guy he is. like you could see how much um you know the boomers is a funny thing. You you've got you've got this crop of guys who are like that's everything to him like the the boomers is everything and I'm one of those guys representing the country is just it's it's what I hold nearest and dearest to me in my professional career. Giddy's that as well, you know, and so we we really connected on that front because we were able to kind of like,

>> you know, show that passion towards what we were doing. And so anyways,

>> yeah, I care a lot about his career and I'm I'm just I'm stoked for him and that he's able to have come out the other side of everything that he went through and and and has something to show for it because that that kind of stuff can topple you and he didn't let it. Yeah, it's an extraordinary story and he'll I spoke to

>> Daniel his his agent back and forth today and we'll get him on at some stage, but don't worry about Giddy and he's 15. I'm talking about you. I'm fascinated by what you said about your young bloke Arch being the seventh generation to touch foot on soil.

>> So, how far back does the farm go? Tell me a little bit about the farm.

>> Uh, yeah, so um there used to be anywhere north of about 50,000 acres in the region that we owned. Um, it was split up into two properties. It was Mundy War and and uh it it was Forest Creek which then later became Blackwood and um yeah, it was a big working farm. We had we had uh a couple of my great great grand uh grandparents had gambling problems and you know being a farmer they're not we're not too you know cash cash rich. It's a lot of asset cash poor.

>> So

>> get himself in a bit of gambling trouble. What does he do? Here's a [ __ ] bit of land here. Bit of land there.

>> So, it just starts dwindling downwind dwindling down a little bit here and there. So,

>> look, I grew up with my grandfather, Hunter, um, who was, you know, someone I really admired and looked up to. Hunter Landale.

>> Um, that's actually my my So, it's Archie Hunter Landale is my is my kid's name.

>> Strong name.

>> Yeah, really good. Um, grew up with him kind of running the property. Uh, my dad ended up taking the you know split up three ways between the kids. My dad ends up um selling his business which uh he was doing uh he was in funds management. He owned a business here in Melbourne 90 West Asset Management or something. And he bought his siblings out of their pieces of the land and now runs it fulltime.

>> A big change from finance to running a large farm.

>> Yeah. He he he was a farmer until 23 when my mom's uh when my mom's mom was like, "Mate, you got to come you got to come do something with your life." You know, she didn't think farming was was was appropriate. Uh, and look, that was great. You know, it was probably a bit of a wakeup call that he needed at the time, or so the story goes. And um, anyways, he comes down, he really he just catapults himself up the ranks at Meil Lynch. Believe he gets to the top end of Maril Lynch Melbourne, decides, you know what, this isn't for me. Yeah, I want to go go out on my own. So, he spends about 9 months in the job and quits, which I imagine is a pretty short tenure in a job like that.

>> Yeah. Gutsy move.

>> Yep. So, middle of the financial crisis, he starts up a business, a funds management business, sells that, buys the farm out of the of the siblings when my grandfather passes and he's been doing that for the last 10 years. So,

>> um,

>> what do you learn from him from the decisions he's made?

>> Oh, made so much. Uh, do what you're passionate about. Like that's that's the thing. My dad my dad is a very strong willed individual uh who who doesn't take kindly to to people who don't treat people the right way. And he was a lot of that in his job from what I understand. So he wanted out. He he hated it. He said he you know money is not everything is kind of the message he g he gives to me to this day. and that, you know, he couldn't there couldn't be truer words from from his character because he had it, you know, he was he was he he kind of got himself to a point where it was just a consistent steady state flow of income and he was like, "This isn't what I want to do." So to to kind of take everything away from what he'd built for 25 years in in in stock uh stocks and and bonds and you know funds management and all of this stuff and to just be like screw it. I'm going back to my grassroots and going back to to being a farmer and and I'm going to figure that out as a new challenge in life which

>> isn't lucrative in the slightest. Uh, and it's a lot of stress because you're relying on mother nature and weather.

>> It's it's a brutal job. um uh his message to me has always been, you know, money's not everything. You got to do what you're passionate about in life. And I think that's it's a simple lesson and it's something you probably don't realize until you've been through it. But um, you know, there's no true words have been spoken.

>> The um I saw also on your Insta that you were back in Deniloquin

>> and you visited it was the local basketball stadium.

>> Yeah.

>> Cool. I love that. So when you walk back into a a country basketball stadium and there's all these little kids look up to you and they are looking up to you fig figuratively and literally

>> and and you're telling them stories about playing basketball around the world in America. What does it mean to you when you see those kids and that agilation they have in their eyes 'cause it would have been a little jock at some stage.

>> It's funny. It it's funny because um I'm not the kind of guy to glamorize the lifestyle I live. It's it it just it's it's water off a duck's back for me where I'm I'm I'm hanging out with these people that everyone's mesmerized with and I'm like they're just another bloke, you know, it's just another person. And

>> yeah, it's it's it's something where I'm telling these kids these stories, but it always has to, you know, I always put it in a way where it's like, you know, you you can be that, too. you know, like this isn't this isn't something that these people aren't out of your sphere and you just because you live in a small town town in Deneloquin doesn't mean that you're any less, you know, superior or you're you're more inferior to these people. It's just

>> as most of life is, it's just luck and timing. Um, and and it's hard work and it's all that stuff. So, that's kind of the message I suppose I tried to to put out. But, um, I'm the kind of guy that doesn't like to make a big deal of myself in the slightest. So that was a drop in. Like I I I I just rolled up.

>> I just rolled up about 2 days before I said, "Hey, I'm coming to town. If you want to have a small group of people in, let me know." But just word of mouth. I don't want to make the big deal.

>> The kids would be losing their mind.

>> I know. So the the part of me which I struggle with is like, "Hey, do it for the kids because they would love that experience." Um, and I probably needed to do a better job of that. But um

>> you know, I don't want to make myself stand out more than I already do. Uh, and so in that instant, you know, I donated a shooting gun, which is the only one from what I understand in country Victoria or country New South Wales in that Riverina area. And it's a honestly, it's a simple piece of machinery that plays a huge role in any uh professional player's life 'cause it's you can go in there late at night and it's just solo repetitions and this you shoot a ball and the machine will spit it right back to you.

>> It's like a cricket bowling machine is a buff for basketball.

>> Correct. Okay. So, it's it's it's just a way that kids can go and roll up to the gym by themselves and they can just get more and more repetitions. And it's something that I'm passionate about. It's something that I've I've wanted to do is try and provide kids from that area kind of with a pathway like mine and been putting a bit of thought into it lately. Um, but you know, I just want to give them the opportunity to, I suppose, have uh a pathway to basketball like I did, which is a rare opportunity to have. So anyways, I donate this thing. I I didn't want to make a big deal of it. I was kind of saying to my dad and the and and the guy John who runs the facility. I was like, "Hey, I don't want to do a presentation. I just want them to have it." And and that be that. And anyways, they kind of strong arms me into showing up

>> as as they would. So basketball,

>> when when does basketball first enter your

>> career? Yeah. Uh, so as a kid, I tried everything. Uh, you know, I did um basketball, cricket, golf, tennis, football. I did everything.

>> Well, you like cricket.

>> I was okay. I was a fast bowler. Uh, probably bowled a few more bounces than I should have. Not overly accurate, but I was a fast bowler and then, uh, pretty useless at everything else. So, uh, that was about it. Yeah. Not not okay, actually.

>> So, who would you first play basketball for in in an actual game?

>> Uh, the Molvin Tigers. the Molvin Tigers in the under

>> under 10.

>> Okay.

>> So, um, my my career started with a guy by the name of uh Simon Juveni who still I still work out to work out with today.

>> Really?

>> Yep. He I'm kind of in this phase of my career where I'm going back to where it started and and getting back in touch with those guys. So, me and Simon have been working out together whilst I've been in Melbourne. um used to just do like late night sessions with him down at my primary school and we'd get the keys to the gym and we'd go in there and we'd work out for an hour.

>> What was driving you to do that?

>> Just trying stuff, man. My parents pushed me to try everything. Um

>> but that's unusual. Late night basketball sessions in primary school.

>> Correct. But I suppose at that point in time, basketball wasn't really being adopted by everybody. So it was a hard thing to kind of get into and it was a hard thing to fit into a schedule that was footy, cricket, swimming, tennis, you know. So, um, just tried to just tried to get involved with it as much as I could. Then I then I decided to go and play uh a little bit of basketball for a domestic competition and I quit. Hated it. Didn't want to do it. No interest. Oh, I would have been

>> 11. You quit. That's it.

>> I was done.

>> Didn't pick one up for about 4 years.

>> Um

>> didn't play at all.

>> Didn't play at all. So, year six I kind of I I got cut from like a represent I tried out for a representative team, got cut. Uh, I quit. I was like, "All right, screw it. I'm done." Six, seven, eight, nine, didn't touch a basketball.

>> Um, at that point, I was kind of going through the phase of eating junk food and playing video games and just, you know, being grammar at this stage.

>> I'm a jolong grammar at this stage. And Jalong grammar um was reluctant to let me do basketball at all. And I'll get to that, but uh you're seven, eight, you know, we're down at Kario, just boarding school, no basketball team whatsoever. So, the school doesn't have a team. Year nine I go to Timbertop.

>> Oh, you went to Timbertop.

>> So I went to Timbertop which was

>> Was it cool?

>> Unreal.

>> So you need to explain to people this is no phones, no contacts. I I presume talking to kids that have done it. I'm down that way. My kids go to Jalong College and they have a lot of friends that do it. I presume it's learning self-sufficiency and independence. Is

>> it?

>> Yeah. It's it's um I suppose the lessons that I I feel like I that still stick to me today is working within a team environment uh

>> with people you don't necessarily like, people that you love, but it teaches you that the job needs to get done. No matter what, you got to get the job done. So, um, one of the ones I like to talk about is that there's there's probably 13 BS in a unit. There's 12 jobs. One guy has a week off, one guy's a captain, and then there's a there's a job list. There's about 11 jobs that need to get done. Doesn't matter that top every week, and you rotate each week.

>> How long are you there for in total?

>> Uh, we're there for about 9 months. Wow.

>> Yeah. So, it's just a full school year. Um,

>> anyways, the, you know, the two jobs that I that really stand out. So, there's kind of sections of the unit. Somebody's cleaning each section daily. And the two jobs that stand out are that there's one block that's got to cut down wood, cut and cut it into, you know, small pieces to fit into a boiler. And one guy's got to wake up every morning at 3:00 a.m. and strike strike that match

>> and light the boiler so the boys can have hot showers at 6:00,

>> right? So, if he doesn't do that,

>> so he doesn't do that, the whole thing goes crap.

>> Falls down.

>> Yep. So

>> Wow. It's a it's a it's a year that I think is critical for people at 14 15 years old that it teaches you responsibility. It teaches you working in an environment with other people. It teaches you accountability and it teaches you to have tough conversations. Like if if if one of my good mates is holding me back from having a warm shower in the morning, you got to tap him on the shoulder and say, "Hey man, like we're we're relying on you to get up and do your job. We've all been doing it the last 8 weeks. It's your turn.

>> So you you really learn to you you learn responsibility at that point in time which and and majority of people who go to Jalong probably come from a codled environment you know it's just no two ways around that.

>> And so it kind of takes you out of that comfort zone teaches you responsibility. You know, we're running up to so first term uh is all about running and hiking. you run three uh you run two times a week and you hike through the weekends for up to three days. Second term you run three times a week. It's two short runs and one long run. Uh, and then you do community service on the weekends. The the third term is three runs again. Uh, it's two short two short runs, one long run. When I say short runs, like by third term, your short runs are like 7 km, 6 km. Long runs are about up to 15k roughly. Yeah.

>> Extraordinary.

>> And then your fourth term which is which is grueling and then you sorry you ski on the weekends uh in that third term up at Mount Buller or you cross country at Mount Sterling which is the one to the left.

>> Um, and then your fourth your fourth term is two long run uh sorry two runs one short one long. Those long run that long run goes up to a half marathon literally up and down a mountain. Yeah.

>> And then you hike up to 6 days by the end around about 150ks.

>> So you're a weapon at the end.

>> Yeah. So you're you're you're tough and you're a beast at the end. So that's

>> year nine

>> and and you got to like that's where I that's where that's where my whole career that's where my whole journey starts in my mind. That's where I fell in love with strenuous uncomfortable environments, physical activity. And in a way, I feel like it's made me uh made me who I am just from a bulletproof standpoint of being able to deal with adversity and

>> sleeping out in the cold and tough and uncomfortable environments and all that kind of stuff. So, it's intense. Like it it's really intense. Um, but that's that's where my journey starts.

>> In what way? So, you get back and you start playing basketball again.

>> So, at the end, my mom loves this story. At the end of term three, uh, last day of skiing on Mount Bulock. I snap my wrist. I'm I'm this close to it being compound fracture. So, catch an edge, kind of go down backwards. I've got one leg in the air and I'm like, right, I just got to hit the deck here. So, I fall over intentionally, smack, and my pole gets caught between my arm and the ground. Now, I'm on the ground. I'm like, damn, that hurt, but I think I'm all good. I go to push up and my arm just collapses. Yeah. So, uh, my arm is, you know, at like a 45° angle, almost like a 90° angle, and I just start piling snow on it. Anyways, they take me down, they come pick me up, green whistle and all. Um, go down to the the doctor's office, they, you know, cut the circulation off the arm, they reset it on the spot. So, that's an intense experience. They're pulling this, you know, my hand and

>> I think we get it. I think we get it, Jo. Anyway, heaven's above. I goes, "Uh, I go I go 6 weeks like that in a cast. Doctor calls me in and he says, "If you if we don't re-break this thing and operate, it's going to you're going to end up kind of like seizing in the arm and

>> break."

>> So, I had to go in and have surgery and they soared my bone off

>> and uh and they get worse and worse

>> set it with a plate. So, I spent 12 weeks sidelined. A lot of it I stayed at home for uh just because it was, you know, significant surgery. They were like, "You can't be up here." Um, and at week four of the six, I had to go to Jalong Grammar. So, I went to Jalong Grammar to essentially get medical clearance to go back to Timbertop. And whilst I'm walking in the gym, the Jalong Supercats are having tryyous. I walk

>> random,

>> crazy. It's like, it's like this weird thing. I'm not a believer in like fate and everything, but it feels like that. So, I walk in uh and one of my late friends, Rod Boon, uh who was my coach at the time, he uh he saw me and he he just come walking up to me. He said, "You want to come play for us?" And I was like, "Mate, I've you know, I don't know." Like, I I hated this sport 4 years ago.

>> Are you tall at this stage?

>> I this I've started hitting my growth spurt. I'm probably like 62 at this point.

>> What are you now?

>> I'm 7 foot.

>> 7 foot. I said, "Look, I'll be back in I'll be back in 10 weeks. See how I feel." 10 weeks come past, I commit. I said, "Yep, I'll come do it." And from there, it's just like gone. I I fell in love with it. I completely obsessed. I quit all sport with the school, which they hated and was an absolute bloodbath to get me to do. So,

>> especially with the APS system, they wanted me to row. They wanted me to play football. They wanted me to do the big sports. And um uh I I just stood firm and I and you know kind of guy I am. I've got a fair bit of conviction about me and I said I'm not doing it. Like this is I'm this is what I'm going to do. U I'm I'm set in stone that basketball is going to be my passion and it's going to be the thing that I kind of like chase through my life. So I figured that out at 15 years old and just kind of left everything else behind.

>> So you end up I can't wait to talk about Europe because some of those places you play they entertain me. St. Mary's, we we've just been lucky to do a eight-part series called The College Diaries with Joe Magguire.

>> Yeah. Cool.

>> Talking all about um his preseason and what is involved in playing for the Ohio State Buckeyes.

>> And Tommy and I, who produces this, had no idea of the commitment or the intensity levels in in div one football programs. What what's the setup at St. Mary's? Like you go there as a on a scholarship, so you get a phenomenal education.

>> Yes. and you play basketball.

>> Y

>> So, how big is basketball at St. Mary's? There's been obviously some big Australian names gone through there. Like, what how's it roll?

>> I mean, that's it. Like, the basketball's it. Where is St. Mary's?

>> St. Mary's is tucked in these hills, this hill country up in Moraga.

>> Moraga. So, what state are you talking?

>> Moraga's in California. It's just outside of San Francisco.

>> Okay.

>> So, it's um probably like 30 minutes outside of San Fran. Inland. Y

>> uh beautiful beautiful area.

>> Um, and that's it. Like basketball is

>> creme to the creme. Yeah. There's no football. The the you know the other programs are solid, but basketball's it.

>> So how are you viewed on campus as a St. Mary's basketballer?

>> You're you're one of those guys. Like one of those guys.

>> I've always wanted to be one of those guys. I don't think I've ever been one of those guys. Um, so yeah, I mean like that's that's that's what people are kind of hanging out for is basketball season. So it's a very very uh stious school. It's kind of where people go to graduating with a business degree and like it's it's it's fairly high up in in that capacity.

>> What were you studying?

>> I started I I graduated with business finance degree.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. So, um,

>> what this is, this is what I learned from Joe's, no matter how your sport goes, if you get the opportunity to go over there as a young Australian, the educational opportunities that are presented to you was blowing my mind, Jo.

>> This this is where I mean, and this you can we can open another can of worms if you want to, but this is where with where with where college sports is at right now. I don't know if you know, you probably do after doing this with Joe, but

>> with where it's at with the payment scheme and all that stuff, it's

>> there's no regulation around it.

>> NIL, name, image, likeness. I'm all across this now.

>> Yeah, there you go. So, there's there's no there's no regulation around it and it's a mess. You know, when when we were going to college, it was, hey, I'm committing to St. Mary's for 4 years and and this program knows that it has my commitment for those four years. It was very rare that people left,

>> right? And it was this there was this cohesiveness that we were able to build over that period of time.

>> So you're playing with the same BS through each year to hopefully achieve success on the court.

>> And it was it was it was well structured. It was easy. There was no ego. There's no money involved. We're we're just a group of 18year-olds turning up turning ourselves into best mates and going and competing against all these other dudes around America.

>> It's a business now. and you're 18 years old and it's like at 18 years old I didn't want I wouldn't have wanted to deal with that. Now you put a $10 million check on the table in front of me I'm sure my eyes would have you know open right up but

>> but it's

>> but the but the innocence of what it was

>> that you would lose team

>> 100% the innocence of what it was and that was the best thing about St. Mary's was the innocence of what we were as a team. There was no ego involved. We were just there to compete and try and get to the NCA tournament and make some noise and and and we went there and it was like I went there for the college experience. I wasn't looking at it as a business. I was going there to drink and play basketball

>> and that that was it. And it was the best. I was I look back on those four years with with with so much joy and happiness and it was so much fun. Well, you would I've done a lot of reading because basketball doesn't come naturally to me. I've never worked on I don't watch a great deal of basketball to be honest, Jock, but I love

>> the stories that come out of it. To me, you've been a man that's been told no numerous times and had to work very, very hard to get where you are still deal with it.

>> So, when you finish up at St. Mary's, are you thinking you're a chance in the NBA draft or not?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, what happened there?

>> I'll give you a little context on this which has kind of um come my way recently. I was an all-American. All American. There's first, second, and third team. Five guys each team. You're the 15 best players in college basketball.

>> I pulled out this plaque. It was sitting in my sitting in my storage recently. And it had the 15 names on that thing. 14 of those guys were drafted. I was undrafted. I did not get drafted.

>> So, you were the only one.

>> The only guy out of those 15 that didn't get drafted. of those 15 guys, six, I think it was, six of us are in the NBA now.

>> Well, there's a moral of the story right there,

>> right? So,

>> that's a great story.

>> Yeah. I

>> I think that, you know, you you you become an all-American and you're like, I'm good. I'm getting drafted and I was

>> I had a rude awakening on draft day.

>> So, what tell me about draft day.

>> So, I come back to Australia. I've gone and I've done I've done about 12 workouts in America with various NBA teams and my agents at the time.

>> Is that nerve-wracking or you just roll up?

>> Yeah, it is. It's it's an experience.

>> Is it basketball skills that they're like what I'm going to sidetrack you here, but briefly what's a workout?

>> Uh, come into the gym um get on court one-on-one, two on two, three on three

>> with who watching?

>> Executives, coaches, all that kind of stuff.

>> Clipboards making notes. At the time I was like I was like man these people are big time. Like this is all the big dogs. Now that I'm on the other side I see who they send in and I'm like these guys aren't paying any attention to this. So

>> So so you get you come home for the draft.

>> I come home I do those workouts. I come home for the draft.

>> Do they say anything to you at the workout like yeah we like you or

>> yeah there there is a little bit of that. Um, and then your agents are kind of on the phone with them like in constant communication.

>> How do you get an agent when you're a 17 18 20 year old kid? They kind in my circumstance, my coach helped me in in college. He kind of said, "Hey, this is a guy I trust.

>> This guy's also come to you." So, in college,

>> yeah, it is. It's huge. Uh,

>> in college, they kind of vet them for you or at my college, the the coaches kind of put out like, "Hey, don't come near my guys. If you want anything to do with them, come to me."

>> Okay.

>> So, um,

>> so you come back home.

>> I come back home. I've got I've got maybe 12 of my mates around at the house

>> having a few beers and watching it and

>> thinking this is me,

>> boys. I'm off to the NBA.

>> Yeah. I had a few I had a few inklings that maybe 38 or like 52 was where I would go.

>> Y

>> at 60 goes past and I'm sitting there and I'm like, dude, what just happened? Like nothing. And at that point in time, I'm there and I'm thinking, this is it. Where do I go from here? You know, so

>> do you get any feedback? Do you get anyone saying, "We didn't pick you because of this reason." It's just like, "These are the guys we got. We don't care about the other dudes."

>> Yeah. And

>> feedback in the NBA is very hard to come by. Full stop. To this day, I struggle with feedback,

>> right?

>> Yeah.

>> To to receive feedback.

>> Yep.

>> They just don't give it.

>> Sounds like my job, mate. Yeah. The only feedback is you get is a new contract where you get the chop. Exactly. Sounds like we're in a similar situation.

>> Right. That's the

>> Okay. So, you're sitting there with your mates and party's gone a bit flat.

>> Yeah. The party's going flat. They're trying to pick me up. I get a call from the agent. He says, "Hey, we're going to send you to summer league with the Atlanta Hawks. You're going to fly back in 3 days. You're going to go to Atlanta and you're going to train with the team. And then you're going to go to summer league and you're going to compete. And you're going to be competing for a roster spot either with Atlanta or somewhere else."

>> So, this is playing summer league is playing with other hopefuls. Is it

>> pretty much? So, it's where all the draft picks come together. So, the ones that have been picked,

>> the ones that have been picked play with, they fill out a team of maybe like 15, 16 guys and they and they kind of they give everyone an opportunity to show their worth and see if there's there's an opportunity for you to play in the NBA. It's very rare that a guy gets picked up from summer league and goes to the NBA. And I figured that out very quickly. So,

>> so when you go into that experience, right,

>> basketball is a team game,

>> but you're only there to stand out individually. This is professional sports,

>> right?

>> It's it's really really weird environment. It's it's hard.

>> So, I go there being an all-American thinking I'm going to get a real crack here to like make a name for myself and it just goes down the can like I play I play terribly. The game is completely different and I still managed to have these what's called two-way offers. So, two-way offers are essentially, you know, at the time it's like 500 grand and you play between the big team and the what's called the G- League team. And it's like it's like the miners almost.

>> Okay.

>> So, you're going between the AFL team and the VFL team.

>> Exactly. I didn't want to do that. And I and and I said to myself, I looked at myself in the mirror.

>> It's a big decision as a young life a half million bucks on the table as well. Although your dad said, "Don't worry about the money."

>> Exactly. So, I'm looking at those opportunities and I'm thinking to myself, I need to it's not it's not about the quick cash. It's about how do I make this last in order to do that? I'm not the most athletic guy. I've had I've I've been in a very systematic style of basketball in college where I only really know how to do one or two things. I was like, I need to go learn. the best place for me to do that I thought was and and the best place which is just it's just known to learn how to play basketball at a high level in terms of like thinking and reading the game is Europe. So my agents at the time are kind of you know we think you should take this two-way offer and I was like dude

>> so you you went against your agent's advice.

>> Yeah. I said I don't think this is the right move for me. I

>> a bit like your old man giving the old finance the chopper going to the farm.

>> Yeah. I I said to I said to myself, I said, "If I'm going to really make this work, I need to I need to I need to I need to have a skill set that's going to last the test of time." And the best way that I saw to do that was to head to Europe and learn how to play basketball.

>> So 2018, now pardon my pronunciation, you go to Belgrade, Serbia in the ABA league and play for Partisan.

>> Partisan,

>> right? Tell me about Serbia because you know I'm thinking Europe. One thing I'm going to Barcelona or Paris or Frankfurt maybe I'm whipping into Belgrade

>> the deep deep Eastern Europe. Uh

>> tell me about your first day when you roll in there.

>> Wow, that is a story. So coming on the off the plane, I'm looking out across essentially just these mud flats and I'm like where the where am I? I land usually when you come into a new country there's a whole bunch of of uh border check, border security. Dude, I swear I walked off that plane and walked out into that city. I was just like, "All right, this is this is it."

>> Guys pick me up. They take me to dinner. It's about 6:00 at night. Take me to dinner. They drop me off at this apartment. They walk me up the stairs. They say, "Here you see you later." I'm like, "All right."

>> So, how old are you? 20.

>> I'm 22.

>> Right. Okay.

>> I walk into this apartment and I look around and I'm like, "Oh my god, this is a dump."

>> So, I was going to say, "Was it a penthouse?" But no, a bit rough around the edges, was it? real. So, yeah. Yeah, it was. So, I start going through cupboards, you know, where are the pillows and the blankets? No pillows and blankets.

>> So, it was like,

>> come on.

>> It was like this this it was a very rude awakening of like, hey, you're not in like coddled ass Moraga or Jalong Grammar anymore. Like, you're in Serbia and this is a man's game and you got to start fending for yourself. So, I had this wakeup call straight away where I was like, "All right, I' i've got to figure something out here. like this is this is not going to be a walk in the park. That was my first wakeup call that first night. I woke up the next morning. I don't know if you know much about Serbia's history, but they've been in a war the last 25 years or so

>> across it.

>> Uh, and I woke up blinds open and I'm looking at a building right next door to me that has had that top part of shaved off and it's bare brick is just you know like the the place has been bombed essentially in the war I presume. And that's where I was. I was in like the I was in like the slums of Serbia in this apartment with no blankets that I've just woken up in my trackies and hoodie and I'm like where the hell am I?

>> What time of the year is it?

>> It was it was actually

Summer. So, uh, you know, it was, it was what is it? August. August.

Okay. So, it's, you know, it's it's warm. It's it's nice weather in Serbia in summer.

Um, I have, I have a US SIM card. So as soon as I am off Wi-Fi, I've got nothing. No juice. So, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm trying to figure all this stuff out, right? How do I go to the, how do I go to the place and get pillows and sheets? Well, I need to get over to the, the shopping mall, and in order to do that, I need to have this app on my phone that works offline, like, like the old uh yellow pages or whatever it was. So, I'm looking at all these street names in different languages, and I'm trying to track my way maybe like 10 kilometers over to this mall to get blankets, and it's out of control. And I'm sitting here, and I'm like, dude, what is going on? And I'm spinning, and I've, I've got no one really in my corner out there. I don't know anyone on the team at this point. I haven't met anybody, and I'm just trying to figure it out. So, those first 24 hours, I look back on it and I was like, what, what is going on?

So, I end up staying in this apartment. Uh, poo starts coming out of the shower drain at some point, and that's where I kind of was like, "Right, I need to start thinking of myself. I need to go and find a nice apartment." And I ended up moving later on in the year, but, you know, it was, it was a man's game that.

So, what happens when you walk into the locker room for the first time? Tough professional basketball. It is a tough professional, mostly Serbian, all pretty much all Serbians, but two guys.

Okay. So, they're not naturally speaking English in the locker room.

Yeah. So, I walk in there and they're all speaking Serbian. And I'm just sitting in the corner, and I've got Marcus Paige to my right, who was an American kid who I was playing with. And, you know, the Serbians used to mess with us a little bit. You know, we'd be sitting in the locker room and you'd hear "Jock" in the flow of Serbian conversation, and you'd be like, "These are these guys talking about me?" So, it took, look, it took like two or three months to really get good with the boys.

Is the coaching being done in Serbian?

Yeah, at that time it was. Our first coach was fired after 11 games because we were three and eight. And that's that's enough in a place like that. They're like, "No, no, you're good. Go."

What, what are you doing when he's instructing how we're going to take on the opposition tonight?

Yeah. So, this coach, look, the start of my professional career in terms of living situation, but also basketball, was was horrendous. Like, it was terrible.

So, you were three and eight.

Three and eight. I wasn't playing. They didn't want me around. Um,

You're not even playing.

I'm not playing. So, I was looking at this thing like, man, I could be, I'm in trouble here. So, they can the coach, and they have this dude come in, Andrea Trinchieri. Andrea Trinchieri is probably one of the most influential people in my life.

Is he Serbian or not?

No, he was Italian.

Italian.

Really fascinating guy. Spoke fluent Serbian. Speak, you know, Italian. He's got all these things going for him, and he's just a wizard. Me, like, in terms of the game, he just gets it. So, this is, this is a great story. He, he walks in, and all the dudes like, you know, since hiring him, all the guys like, "Dude, I can't believe we got Andrea Trinchieri because Partizan was this old club of legend, and they had financial troubles and really just dropped off, and we were the first team to push them back up into EuroLeague." So, we were kind of the guys, my year, where the team started taking us serious again, and Andrea Trinchieri was a big reason for it. So, everyone's like, "Dude, we got Andrea Trinchieri. Like, what, what's going on? We must have found some money to pay this guy because he's a legend." He walks in the locker room and he's like, "Right, we're all going to have individual meetings, and I'm going to tell you what I think of you, and we're going to get on the same page, and I'm the last meeting." So, I'm, I'm, I've got mates at this point, and the mates, some of my mates are like, "This guy, like, screw this guy."

So, he was pretty brutal with his feedback.

Brutal with his feedback. And so, they're all like, "Screw this guy." You know, he's told me that I'm not good enough to be here and that next year there won't be a spot for me. And like, pulls me in his meeting, and he just smiling at me, sitting in this chair. And I'm like, "Dude, this is intimidating as all hell because at this point, you, I don't know anything about basketball in Europe." He sits down and he goes, "I'm going to build this team around you, and we're going to put ourselves back in serious contention, and this is how we're going to do it." And from there, through the roof, my career.

What did he see in you, looking back for a bloke that wasn't hardly playing?

I had, I have a very unique skill set, which my now coach, Tomas, um, has talked about a lot to me, where the pick and roll in basketball, which is the five that comes up, sets a screen for the people that don't know, and then he rolls to the basket, and the point guard and him kind of pass to each other and and play out of that.

That's where I specialize. That's the best thing that I do is play out of that kind of short roll action and get to the rim, and then I can pick and pop and shoot threes. So, I'm, I'm a guy that can kind of do it at what's called a three-level scorer, where I can shoot threes, I can shoot in the mid-range, and I'm good around the rim.

And he saw that at an early stage, and he was like, "That's what we're going to base this whole offensive principle around is is your ability to kind of make reads out of that."

So, someone believed in you.

Yeah, it was the, it was the first time in my professional career that I had someone believe in me.

So, you win a Serbian Cup.

Win a Serbian Cup on a buzzer-beater that I won for.

Are you shot? Oh, Tommy, we need to find the highlights of our man doing that. What, what type of, like, what type of um?

Oh, mate.

Like, how crazy are they for hoops?

Crazy.

Explain it to me.

Right. So, there's two big teams in Serbia. You got Red Star and Partizan.

These teams hate each other.

Right. In the buildup to those games, these fan bases are like scheduling fights in the street. That's how much they hate each other. It's serious. Now, Red Star is kind of one group, and then Partizan is split into two groups. So, there's two groups within Partizan who hate each other.

But they both go the same team.

But they both go for the same team. So, every single game that we played, it was these two fan bases competing with one another, and there was riot shield police down the middle, splitting them up so they in the stadium so they didn't fight each other.

And this is the same team supporters.

Yes. So.

Wow.

You, you think that my, that environment is kind of what I come up around my first year is these crazy fan bases. I have stories on my, I mean, I have videos on my phone. It's out of control hating on each other. And then you come to a Serbian Cup where we play against the other team.

So, you're playing against Belgrade Red Star.

Yep. So, typically during the regular season, if it was our home game, only our fans were allowed in. If it was their home game, only their fans were allowed in there because they knew that if we have both teams in here, it'll, like, somebody might die. Like, that's how serious this is. So, the Serbian Cup is different in that in the finals, they allow both sets of fans in. And that was crazy.

Define crazy.

Flares, hot pennies being lit up, thrown to the house.

What do you mean hot penny? Like a?

Like a, a dollar. They would hold, they would hold a dollar over, over, they would heat it up. A coin.

Yep. And they would throw it at you on the court.

I had, I had, I was sitting on the bench in a timeout. The timeout breaks. I go to stand up, and this flare rips past my head and hits the ground in front of me and explodes.

In an indoor stadium.

Indoor stadium.

Right. So, to give you the story on how I won this game.

Yes, please do.

We have these crazy possessions happen where we're, we're down, uh, it's a tie game. So, it's a tie game. We have the ball on the side out of bounds with like a second to go, right? We drawn up a play to get, um, uh, to get an inbounds, kind of like a curl to the rim, throw it to a guy who has a layup. That's not there. I recognize this quick, and I recognize that they've switched a smaller guy onto me, and I just start trucking this dude to the front of the rim, bump him off, catch the ball in mid-air. The dude throws a great pass to me at the front of the rim. Catch the ball in mid-air, and it was a layup, and the dude rips my arm off the ball. So, the ball kind of just drops, and you see me, I'm like this because there's a quick delay in the whistle. I'm like this, and they call a foul.

Did the ball go in?

No.

Ball doesn't go in. So, now there's about six seconds left on the clock. So, this is like, this is, it's either I make one of these, or we go home, or we go to overtime. So.

You're on the free throw line.

I'm on the free throw line. Now, there's video of this where I get this. I'm like this, and then I'm like, "Oh my god, I got to win this game with a free throw." And I just go like, cold in the face. Like, I was scared. So, I go to the free throw line. Um, the whole thing is, is, is make the first, miss the second, because if, if I make the first, then we're up one, and if I miss the second, and they touch it, they don't have enough time to call a timeout.

Got you.

And so, the game's over. So, uh, right before I shot the free throws, my coach is like, "Come over here." At this point, like, we're having, we've built a great relationship through the year at this point. I'm going to his house for dinners. We're talking about life. He's educating me on just the the career that's kind of in front of me. And he comes, he walks up, and come over here, come over here. My parents had told him, they sat down and had dinner with him as well a couple days before. They said, "If Jock's ever too serious, just give him a kiss on the cheek. Just give him a kiss, and it'll come, it'll diffuse the situation." So, come over here, come over here. And he, and he comes over and he grabs my back of my neck and pulls me in. He kissed me on the forehead. And there's, there's this photo of this. It's a great photo. And he says, "Go make this shot." Walk back to the free throw line. Calm.

First in.

Bang. Everybody around me, I got my mates, Bunesy, Marcus Paige, Alex Renfroe, all these guys. I'm looking at the coach. Miss it, miss it, miss it. I'm like, "I got you. Make it." So, this is the worst part about this. Six seconds in a game, you have an opportunity to catch and shoot or tip the ball in. So, I've just given them an opportunity to to either win or tie the game. So, they're all like, "What? What are you doing?" Like, it was this kind of deflating moment where I've won this game, but now I've given them a chance.

Uh, anyways, we go, we go come out of the timeout, they throw a ball to the rim, I kind of batted away, we win the game, it's all good. Um, and that was that.

And what's a celebration? Unbelievable.

Well, like, like there's obviously a fair bit of passion going on in the crowd. Like, what's the celebration? What's the love for you amongst the crowd?

Just the whole thing. My parents were in the stadium for this game, which is really cool. Um, you know, that was.

I hope your old man wasn't the one ripping the flares down.

No, he was just about to start. I'll tell you what. But, uh, go to the locker room, beers, champagne, out with the fans. The fans don't leave like after a game like that. They'll sit there for three hours beating the drums, lighting flares. So, we're up in the stadium with them on the drums. Like, it's out of control. Um, so I'm up there. I'm celebrating with the fans. It's just a mad house. We jump on the bus, drive an hour back to our homes, and then we go out and it, like, yeah, night to remember. It was out of control. Out of control.

They're good stories. Can I ask you, because most of your career is on record. We, we spoke about Josh and his payday at the start. So, playing for in Serbia, what was it generally? What are you getting paid to play?

I got paid 80 grand that year.

80,000 Australian.

Uh, it was 80,000 euro. Oh, no. US. US.

Okay. US. So, $110,000. And how long are you there for?

I was there for 10 months.

10 months. Okay. So, it's, it's not a big payday.

No.

So, then you end up in Lithuania.

Yes.

Do we, do we need to talk about how you went from Serbia to Lithuania? Is there a story there?

There is a story there. That's that's a, that's a fascinating one. So, mate.

We're not even going to get to the NBA, which is fine with me. This is your six-part. Okay.

So, you're, you're the hero in Partizan.

Yep. So, I'm, I'm a hero in Partizan. My coach is telling me at the time, "You're going to stay here for a long time. We're going to do incredible things together." And this is the hard part of the business. Is I, I love that team. Like, in my heart, like, I'm a part Serbian because I'm like, this team is, was it, was everything to me. And to this day, I'm a big supporter of them, and I, and I love catching up with the guys who I, I played with that year. But part of the business was is that in the back of my mind, I was like, "I got, I got, I got bigger fish to fry. Like, I got, I got, I got shit to do." Excuse my language. Um, so I go and I start having, I, I, I change agency, and there's, there's conversations that I'm going to go to the NBA.

Right.

I'm starting to make some, make a bit of a name for myself, uh, because my career just goes bang that year. Um, so the EuroLeague starts hunting me down, and it's really, really hard for players to break into the EuroLeague from lower levels in Europe. It's just the way it works, right? So, at this point, I've got these EuroLeague teams calling. And at this point, I'm kind of loving Europe. I'm like, "This, this, I really struggled with mental health that year for various reasons, but I was kind of like, I could do this for a long time. Like, Europe's cool. Like, I love Europe. I love going back there for holidays. I was loving the experience there."

And, um, when, when a EuroLeague team calls, you pick up the phone and you have a conversation. So, Žalgiris calls, um.

Žalgiris Kaunas.

Kaunas.

Correct.

They call, uh, at the time, my agents are telling me that there's going to be some real interest in the NBA.

So, behind closed doors, I'm, I'm, I'm, it doesn't feel good to say this, but this is the reality. I'm kind of setting up my next year, and I'm still in season with my current team.

Yeah. So, I signed this deal with Žalgiris where it's, it's a little bit of a safety net deal for me, where I signed this deal, and at the time, the, the terms were really favorable to help me go to the NBA. And if that wasn't to happen for whatever reason, I would have a really good landing spot in Europe to fall back on.

So, you play for them, but if you get an NBA offer, you can go to the NBA.

Yeah. So, if I finish my season with Partizan and the NBA calls me, I'd never suit up for Kaunas. But if they don't, I can go to there and know that I'm, I'm on, I think at that point, it was like 250k.

Okay. So, it's a four times pay rise. Good, good pay rise.

Good pay rise. So, uh, I get found out, essentially. Rumors start leaking that that I've, I'm in conversation with a different team in the EuroLeague. And.

It starts leaking in Serbia. Whilst I'm in Serbia still.

Passionate fans.

The, the fans start to turn on me a little bit. The coaches like, starting like, we've built this great relationship, which just disappears overnight. Um, and we, it starts to sour bad to the point where I'm being told that I can't come into the locker room. I'm being told that, um, you know, I'm kind of getting, like, it, it's getting chippy between me and the coach. Like, it just soured real bad.

Boys are big on loyalty.

Huge on loyalty. And there, there was, there was interest, there was mutual interest for me to go back to Partizan because I love that, I loved it, and I wanted to be a part of that long term. Um, but it just wasn't moving as quick as I wanted it to, and I wanted to take a step up from EuroCup to EuroLeague, and at that point in time, we weren't going to make the EuroLeague.

But our friends at Žalgiris were.

They were in. Yeah. So, they have what's called like a Series A license, where they're in no matter what. So, I signed this deal behind closed doors, essentially, and I say, "Hey, I'm going to go play for this team in in Lithuania, and and and that's that." So, how it went is, um, I hurt myself in Partizan, and I'm kind of sidelined, and they say, "Hey, you can go and rehab it elsewhere." So, my agents at the time, they say, "I'm meant to be going back to America. They've set up this thing with Partizan to let me go and rehab in America," which was legit. That's what I was going to do.

And the people in charge at the time were like, "Let's go do our physical in Lithuania on the way out, and we can just check that box so you don't have to come back later."

Bad idea. So, somebody in the Žalgiris office catches wind that I'm on my way, and they think, "Deal's done. It's public." So, they go to the media people. So, I'm on a flight from Serbia to Poland, Warsaw, to then fly to Lithuania to get this physical done.

On the way to America.

And then fly to America to rehab my ankle that was a bit busted up so that I could have a great, you know, World Cup, which I didn't really know at the time, but but have a great, uh, summer league.

Yeah.

Anyways, I land in Poland, and my phone is gone bananas, and I, I, you know, airplane mode off. And I'm looking at this thing and I'm like, "Oh my god, what is going on?"

The Lithuanian team has said, "We have signed Jock Landale, and he's going to be here for the 2020, 20 season or whatever it was."

That's where everything went to crap because at that point, there was a, there was a, there was a handshake deal in place, nothing in writing, and my buyout from Europe to go to the NBA went from a hundred grand, which is doable, to like a million euro.

What's a buyout? What's that mean?

Which means that if, if an NBA team wants to come along and and pick me up on a deal, they have to pay a million euro.

So, it was going to be 100,000, now it's a million.

Yeah. Because the whole thing went to crap.

Wow.

So.

So, do you end up, you end up playing there in.

Because with the way that the NBA deals are structured, I'm, I was, I was always going to be a minimum player coming in. So, which meant that I was going to be on a, basically a, a million dollars US was my first deal.

In the NBA.

In the NBA. With the way that the salary cap was kind of laid out, they would have to pay a million dollars on top to me. They would also have to pay a million dollars of the club.

Not to mention, they'd have to pay, if they're in the luxury tax, they'd have to pay two or three times that amount. So, it just.

So, you're too expensive for what they're.

All of a sudden, this million-dollar player becomes a $5 million player, and it's like, "We don't want to pay that." So, that screwed everything up.

So, you're playing Lithuania.

Mhm.

Works out.

Yep. Come back, play for Melbourne United. Yep.

Fantastic.

Awesome.

Win a title 3-0 against Perth. Bang. MVP. Yep.

We're going beautifully. Just, just hold the NBA for a moment here.

Yeah.

Because we have to talk about Tokyo 2020, which actually became Tokyo 2021.

Yes.

So, your team, I'm going to whip through this with you, big Jock. Not that you will forget. Australia v Nigeria, win 84-67. Beat Italy 86-83.

Beat Germany 89-76. Going well. Take on the Agies in the quarterfinal. Send them packing. Bang. 97-59.

You lose to the USA 78-97 in the semi-final. Brian Goorjian sat in this seat and told me about what was happening after that.

Your memory of walking off the court after you get beaten by America.

Gut punch, man.

So, Australia's never. So, for those that don't follow the basketball, Australia's never won a medal in the Olympics. We've been close, and we've had some fantastic basketballers and basketball teams. So, you get smoked by the Americans, but you've still got a chance to win a medal.

Yeah.

So, what's your memory of what happened here?

Basically, we're up 20 points going into halftime. We end up losing the game.

Yeah. Against America.

Against America. And this was no measly America team. This is KD. This is, you know, these, these are their dogs.

Um, the message is simple. We walk in the locker room, heads are hanging. Everyone's just, you know, flat because we thought we were a chance to win a gold, which was out of control. And the message is, "We're not going home and looking our families in the eyes without a medal hanging around our neck." It was just, it was that simple. We're not going home and embarrassing ourselves like that ever again.

Your man Brian Goorjian has got what my kids call aura. I hadn't spent much time with him till he wanted in here. The man's got aura, doesn't he?

Yeah, he does. He, he, he runs, he runs at his own pace, that's for sure. And, and like, one of just the, the all-time great speeches that has ever been given, you know, and I've been in the presence of, I've just never heard anything like it. And it was like, "All right, we're good." I, I, I don't have it exact word for word how I said, but I know what my message was. And it, it started with, you know, "I want your eyes." And I said, "This is bullshit." You know, I said, "You know, you talk about culture, you talk about, you know, um, all of these things all the way through." Rol, go, "Okay, we took a punch." And I go, "You're the worst in the world in this moment. You suck. You guys suck." You know, and there, there's faces looking at me like they want to punch me. And I said, "Okay, work it out. Five times you've been in the top four, and all you got to do is one game. Win one game. What does an Aussie do? What are we famous for? What is this shit all about? What is it all about? When an Aussie gets hit, they get up and throw punches. You get hit, you turn to shit." So, I'm, I'm, and they're there, you know. And I go, "That's fact." And I said, "Hey, man. We're coming in." You know, and I, and then I started painting the picture about, man, our culture, it's, it's not in this room. It's not just between us. We're in entertainment. Everybody in the country is going to be watching you tomorrow night, and you got a chance to showcase what this is. There was this whole thing that kind of built up to this point where it was like, "We're not going home and looking at our families without a medal hanging around our neck." And, and that embarrassment is not even in our frame of mind. And it was just that simple. Now, if you know Gorge, he stumbles over his words 300 times before he gets to the point. You've kind of got to piece the message together.

Yeah.

That message was clear as day.

And it was, it was like we walked out of that loss being like, "Yeah, we're about to make history." Slovenia 107-93. The Boomers' first ever Olympic men's basketball medal. You will forever be etched in that piece of history.

Yeah, pretty special.

That's pretty special, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. It's, um.

What are your memories of the day, the night?

Oh, mate. I mean, probably the most nervous I've ever been for a game because when you, when you represent, when you represent a city in, in your, in your professional career, it's one thing. Representing a country, and one that you hold near and dear to you. Like, when I go, when I go and play in the NBA, and I go and play in Europe, I'm playing in these foreign cities where it's like, "Ah, do I fit this kind of picture?" On a play for Australia, it's like, these are, these are friends. These are family members. These are, these are guys that, as you're going through this experience, they're sending photos of like a group of 30 of them, you know, watching you and cheering for you. And you don't know half these people, but the support is just like unbelievable. So, you feel that, like, and, um, being young at the time, like, I didn't really know how to shut that off. So, I'm feeling that pressure going into the game. Ball jumps up, forget it all. Have a great game as a team. Personally, Patty's incredible.

14 points, six of eight shooting, 75% efficiency. Our man, the boy from Geelong Grammar. Bam. Standout performer.

Correct. And, uh, it was, it was, I mean, then, then it's back to the locker room, and Chris Goulding, who's one of my best mates, you know, um, it's beers with him, and it's an, it's an embrace of, we've just come off the back of this championship in NBL, and, and, and, you know, now we've won a medal, and it's embracing the old boys who have put so much time into it, and I'd now at that point been a part of two campaigns, so I had an idea of what it meant. And then it got all these dudes like Matisse, Thon Maker, who are fresh in, but have embraced everything we're about, and it was just the best group in the world. And we get, we get into the locker room, we're drinking beers, you know, we're smashing these long, these tall boy Asahi, like, oh, the elation was just out of control. And then it's like something out of a movie. We come back into the village, it's pissing down rain, and you kind of can't see too far into the distance, and we round this corner, and there's just this mob of Aussies sitting out the front in the rain. We're coming down with these speakers playing all these Aussie tracks we had going, and then it was just like, on that whole night, everyone's getting pissed with us. It was unbelievable. Yeah.

And for all those that have gone before you, I'm sure you've seen a lot since.

Yeah.

That have told you what that meant to them. Is there, is there a person that stands out that came and had a word to you at any stage since that that you might have seen a day later, a month later, a year later, and explained what it meant to them? Because you know, there's been so many building blocks to get to that level.

Yeah. Um, probably no one that came to me in particular and said something. Obviously, Andrew Gaze's speech on Fox Sports, whatever it was, stands out, and he's breaking down in tears. I took it upon myself to, um, to go back to the coaches before Brian Goorjian, who were Andre Lemanis, Luke Longley, these guys, and say, you know, "Without you guys, like, this isn't, this isn't here." And they weren't a part of it. And to a, to a degree, they were, there was a little bit of them being pushed out. Um, but you could still, you could still get the, the sense that they, like, how much they cared and how much joy there was for them seeing that take place. And I just thought in that moment, like, that's what it is to be Aussie, and that's what it is to be a Boomer, is be happy for the people who, who, who come after you, no matter what.

Oh, you'll forever be part of that history. So, so we, we've been around, we've given up basketball, we've gone back to Super Cats, and then you've gone off to Europe, and there's poo coming out of your toilet. And then in 2021-22, the San Antonio Spurs sign you in August 2021. How does that happen? How do you find that out?

Yeah. Uh, pretty quick. Uh, I mean, we're about to play the US or something. Day before I sign.

So, it's in the Olympics.

Yeah. I'm at the Olympics, and the head coach of the Olympic team is Pop. Pop's the coach of the Spurs. Greg Popovich, one of the most storied American basketball coaches of all time.

Correct. Um, they, they signed me. His team signs me. The, the Spurs sign me.

How does that happen? You get.

Phone call from the agents.

And what's he say?

He says, "Hey mate, like, you know, you got some news for you. You're going to be in the NBA next year."

And what, what do you make of that?

And I'm like, "Holy crap." Like, "What's going on?" Like, at this point, it's kind of out of my mind.

Well, you're in the middle of an Olympic campaign, which I didn't realize.

I don't have a job at this point, and, and I've, and I've rolled the dice on, I'm waiting on the free agency, and let's see what happens. So, uh, the Olympic campaign kind of spurred me. Melbourne United and the Olympics set me up for the NBA. It's the first time that I had, I'd been like, essentially a free agent with no buyouts attached or whatever. And, uh, call from the agent, "You're going to be in the NBA next year. Where am I going?" "You got a call from the San Antonio Spurs. They, they're, they want to sign you. We think we should see what else is out there."

And I go, like, I go, "Yeah, yeah, okay." Like, "You sound good. You're the boss. I'm, I'm busy trying to win a medal. I'll talk to you. I'm about to play Kevin Durant tomorrow. I'll talk to you later." I'm sitting in my room, and I'm like.

"What am I doing? Long, right?"

So, I call him back, and I'm like, "I don't know what I was thinking. Tell them yes."

Sign, sign.

Hang up the phone. That was it. Done. So, you signed with them again. So, we, we've gone from 80,000 to 250,000. What are you signing with the Spurs at?

Uh, that was about 960,000.

960,000 Australian dollars.

US.

US. So, we're heading in a North direction.

All right. Yeah.

Your first game versus the Clippers, January 15, 2022. What's that mean now that you're an NBA player? Like, what's the night like?

Unbelievable.

Is it?

Unbelievable. Were you?

Nervous?

No. No, I wasn't. Um, at that point, I've kind of done a lot of, uh, there's been a big build-up to that point. So, no, not, not nervous in the slightest. Uh.

Is it dream come true stuff?

Yeah, it is. It is. Uh, but, but at that point, you're kind of numb to it a little bit because, you know, I'd had this long build-up of being around it and watching these games go past and being like, "I can play in this moment." And in that moment, it was, it was random. They, like, I'm sitting in the locker room, name on the board, you're in. And you're starting, or whatever it was, I was like, "Oh, okay." Like, "Here we go." So, there was no time to be like nervous or have any build-up because I'd watched this whole thing unfold for 30 games prior.

Um, and it was just, "Go get it done." And so, I don't know what, what I had. Who was it? Clippers.

Clippers.

Double-double.

Yep.

Yep. So.

Absolutely.

Have a good game. And that, that kind of spurred on like a stretch of 20, 30 games where I played and played well.

So, what's Popovich?

Yeah. Who is that? Who Patty won his title with at San Antonio.

So, he's this mythical figure. He's a bit like a sort of Bill Belichick style operator. Like.

Do you see him as greatness, or do you see him as a bloke you're struggling to get a game with? Like, do you talk with him every day?

No, didn't talk much. Uh, I'll be frank. We, we didn't have too much of a relationship.

Right.

Uh, don't know why that was. Um, you know, we had a couple laughs early on, and then season gets rolling, you just kind of get forgotten about, and that's that's our sport. I suppose that's not, that's not normal. You know, it's happened to me at times in, in happened in Houston a bit.

Um.

What's forgotten about mean? What, what's that?

Just they've got bigger, they've got bigger things on, like they're preparing for NBA games, and you're just somebody who's waiting patiently, and and that's just, that's just it, like, you know, like we don't, we don't worry about you until we need you. That, that is what it is. I don't think that's the right way to operate, but that's kind of how they operate. Um, and.

You played 54 games though.

Played well. Yeah. Played 54 games. A lot of games of basketball.

Correct. So, the, the initial part was was not great, and then I started playing, and then it's the conversation starts to build, and.

So, if, if you're, if you're their guy.

Oh.

The conversation's open. If you, if you're coming on off the bench, then.

Bigger fish to fry.

Yeah. I would, I would say that's a brutal world, isn't it?

It is. Um.

Is that the way the NBA operates, or that franchise?

I think those franchises because I had a, I had a really good relationship with Monty Williams. Um, now, that relationship at times too could be, could be, you know, um, he's, he's, I'm not in the lineup, and he's worrying about games, and so the paths just don't cross as much, and that's is what it is. But, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's the individual, I'd say more than anything. Yeah. So, I, I want to talk to you about Phoenix, and, and once we introduce Phoenix, I want to understand what day-to-day life is with the travel, the food, the diet, the training.

But so this is where you're going to have to help me out.

Yep.

So, 2021-22 San Antonio, Phoenix Suns, we had great success. 22 to 23. So, what does this mean? Firstly, on June 30, 2022, this is what fascinates me about American sport. Jock, one day you're in the locker room, you're not. On June 30, 2022, Landale was traded to the Atlanta Hawks in exchange for Danilo Gallinari and multiple first-round picks.

Less than a week later, on July 6, he was traded to Phoenix Suns in exchange for cash considerations. So, I got a couple of questions. Do you actually go physically?

No.

To Atlanta?

No.

You don't.

I didn't. No.

Okay. But you were, you were traded to Atlanta. So, then what does this mean? Less than a week later, off to Phoenix Suns in exchange for cash considerations. Now, this is, this is full business. Now, what's a cash consideration, and what does all that mean to you?

That bas, that basically means at the time, this is what it means. And I'm going to be, I'll be brutally honest. At the times, that means at the time, that meant the NBA doesn't think anything of you. Like, you are an absolute nobody. They don't want you, and they're willing to give you up for 50 grand. So, Atlanta gave me up for $50,000. Phoenix said, "We'll pay you 50 grand for his contract." And they said, "Okay."

Okay. So, so why'd they pick you up in the first place from San Antonio?

Atlanta.

Yeah.

So, I was, I was essentially, I was essentially a salary filler in a, a bigger deal. So, Dejounte Murray was traded to Atlanta.

Dejounte Murray to, to, to make the numbers line up and make this trade eligible, um, they needed part of my salary involved. So, my second year of my deal was non-guaranteed, which means that they could fill in the blank on what that price was that was missing from that, that part of the trade by guaranteeing a small portion. So, they guaranteed $50,000 of my deal.

Yeah.

And then Phoenix came along and said, "Hey, we'll pay you the $50,000 that you owe him and give us his deal." And they said, "Go ahead."

So, this is, this is you're valued a chump change at this point.

I'm valued at 50 grand.

Okay. So.

I'm almost back on par with where I was at in Serbia.

You were.

Yeah.

So, you go to Phoenix where you play 69 games.

Including seven postseason.

Yeah.

Um, you get your first taste of playoffs.

Um, well, they call it postseason, don't they?

And you play with Kevin Durant.

Yes.

Now, I don't know a great deal about basketball. I'll be honest with you there. I'm across Kevin Durant. So, what separates the good NBA players to the great, to the all-time, to like the Hall of Famers like Durant?

What separates them? I mean, it's, it's a, it's a blend of obsession, um, hard work, natural, natural gifts. Like, he is, he is the culmination of, you're gifted with this, this ability to move at 7 foot with a long wingspan and and athletic ability that you've got. You're an unbelievably hard worker who obsesses over nothing but basketball, and you can just put the ball in the hole and not see defenders. Like, that's his biggest asset in my mind.

But he still works hard with all that natural talent.

Bloody hard. So, I mean, this dude is, he is the greatest to ever put the ball in the hole.

Right.

He's unbelievable.

Wow.

Yeah. And he's a kind of guy that knows that he can do that, but still is willing to play the team game, and, um, he, like, and that's what was so great to play with him from my perspective was that, like, he had faith. He showed me that he had faith in me to be like, "Hey, I've got two guys trying to defend me. I'll throw you the ball, and you go make the play, and I'll sit back. And once you carve that up, and they stop throwing double teams at me, well, now the game is going to come back to me, and I, and go do my thing." And so, he's this rare, he's this rare combination of like, "I can, I can get it off whenever I want it, but I'm going to have faith in you and help you get involved too," which is rare.

I want to ask you about the postseason, but because I don't want to keep you here for three days, Josh, just short, sharp answers to these questions about day-to-day life in the NBA. Okay.

So, how many games in a season?

82.

82. So, you spend a lot of time on the road.

Uh, is it, are they three, four, five, or nine-star hotels you're staying at?

They're nine-star.

Nine-star. So, everything here.

Game day.

Um, you arrive in a city. So, say you play on a Tuesday night. Will you then play again on a Wednesday night?

For sure.

In a different city.

Yes.

Okay. So, do you fly after a game?

Yeah.

So, game, let's take it back. Game finishes. Is there any recovery?

Yeah. Mass, a little bit of treatment for half an hour, probably, and then bus up and go. But.

But, sorry, they'll kind of slot them like 15 minutes apart. So, there might be an allowance for an hour if you need it. But most guys are on a bus 30 minutes after.

And then you go. Are you flying private?

Yes.

What's a plane like at Phoenix? You just all pile on.

Uh, at Phoenix, it was, it was one of the, the NBA has a deal with Delta or something, and they've just got these Delta planes, like international planes. It's first-class seating the whole way through.

Do you get fed on that flight?

Yeah.

Okay. Beautiful.

So, is, yeah. So, the, the nutrition is it like A1 elite athlete type food?

I would say so, but there's also, there is an allowance for for guys to enjoy themselves too.

Okay. Are there card games on these players? Like.

Absolutely.

Okay. Did you get involved in the card games?

I played dominoes.

Right. Cuz cuz the cash was a bit back.

I've seen some like 100, 200 grand pots before. And the dominoes is just, uh, that's that's bragging rights. Right. Yeah. So, you arrive at the hotel.

You've played a game, and then you arrive in a new city. So, what time generally you getting to a hotel?

Oh, look, anywhere between two and four.

How are you getting to sleep? How are you managing your sleep so you can perform every night?

You just get it where you can.

Right.

Yeah. There's, there's no sleep schedule in the NBA. It's, it's land at four, go to sleep till ten, so you get six hours there. You might get up for a quick meeting and go back and have another catnap for another two hours.

The quick meeting is that about that night's game?

Yes.

How much of that is oppo scouting as opposed to this the way we want to play?

50/50.

50/50.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. But I would say on on those nights where it's where it's back to back, so it's it's a Tuesday and then a Wednesday, that Wednesday game is completely about how they play.

Right.

Yeah. But we, you know, we might do one in the morning, and then we do one pre-game as well. So, they'll probably split.

that up.

>> Yep. So then you you have your nap. What's the AVO look like before a game?

>> Mate, I'm not I'm not crazy about like a a huge schedule. I go based on how I feel. Some days some days I lay there and I stare at the roof and I say, "Right, I'm just going to get up and I'm going to read a book or or or watch a show or go and have a coffee outside. I might even go out and have lunch." Um and then other days I'm I'm cooked and I might knock out for another 3-4 hours.

Okay, this is this is your day-to-day, but this is what fascinates people about your job, so bear with me. So, um, how early do you get to an arena before tip off?

>> Uh, 7:00 game, I'll get there at 3:30.

>> And how's that 3 and 1/2 hours filled?

>> Uh, walk in the gym. So, it's I'll I'll take a back a quick step as well because I think we need to fill out just the morning as well. In the morning, we go into the arena at let's say 9:00.

>> Where you going to play that night? Either that if you're on the road or if you're home it might you probably go to your practice facility.

>> Yep.

>> Uh go in 9:00, you get some shots for half an hour. You might get a treatment for half an hour. Film at 10 to 10:30. Get on court with the team for maybe 45 minutes and then most people go home.

>> What film at 10 to 10:30? What do you mean film?

>> That that's where we will kind of break down either what we want to do or what they're doing.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha.

>> Uh sorry. After that, I I'm a big yoga head. So, I'll go and do an hour's yoga. So, I'll do I'll do yoga from 11 to 12. 12:00 lunch, go home. Depending on how I feel, I might sleep from 1 to 3. Uh or or I'll go out and do something else. 3:00 always coffee 3:30 in the car to the gym, which is usually, you know, 10 minutes away. get to the gym, get the body mobilized and ready to go out on the court usually at around 4:30 is typically my time. 4:30, 5:00.

>> Y

>> uh that's 30 minute I know 20 minutes of shots. From there I'll go back into the locker room, sit for 10 minutes, might have a little bit more food to eat. Then I'll go and lift weights. So I lift weights

>> before the game.

>> Before the game. That's that's not everyone. For me it's like a it's like a rush. It's like all right, I've got the breath going a little bit now. I'm awake and I can get going.

>> Okay.

>> So, I'll lift weights uh typically from 5:30 to 6:15. 6:30 uh I'm trying to think. Yeah, probably 6:30 film. 7:00 we run out.

>> And when you have a [ __ ] game,

>> okay, and then you've got to get on a plane.

>> Yeah.

>> And then try and get to sleep in a hotel.

>> Yeah. What have you learned about mentally looking after yourself?

>> Dude, play dominoes, talk talk some [ __ ] with the boys and and and forget that it even happened.

>> Cuz as soon as I said that, you're like, "Oh,

>> yeah." Just because I'm the kind of guy that um I expect the best for myself every night. So, it's been a hard lesson learned to to let it go.

>> Okay. But you've learned that lesson.

>> I'm I'm a lot better at it now. Yeah. Um there are still days where where there might be a little bit more in the game or someone I don't like or you know an old team and I have a bad game and I'm like that hurts. But a lot better at it now knowing that there's 82 of them, right? So it's it's just about and and this is the thing like I have dudes Jeff Green, one of my best mates I've made in the NBA. If I had a bad game and I was hanging my head on the plane, he'd be like, "Dude, you've changed. you you know you take you're too serious. You make me feel bad about feeling bad to the point where I'd be like man snap out of it. Let's play some dominoes. Who cares?

>> Right.

>> So he has a perspective of 20 years in the NBA family of you know I think there five or six of them. Um and bigger things in life like there there's there's there are bigger and better things to worry about than have one bad game. So so sack up and move on. And that's the I'm a bit of a brute in my way of thinking and talking and and I've refrained a little bit, but um like just grow a set and move on. You got a game in 24 hours. Who cares? You know, and this is what's missing a little bit in the world today is I think that there's too much coddling that goes on

>> and it's it's making us weaker and weaker. And I can you can see it a little bit in the younger kids coming. And I don't want to generalize.

>> No, no, you can. But it's but but it's real. It's it's it it is real. And it's one of my favorite quotes. I And I'll probably stuff it up, but it's it's the the hard times make hard men. Hard make men make easy times. Easy times make soft men. And soft men make hard times. And we're in that phase of soft men.

>> And this is where

>> Say that to me one more time so I can follow.

>> Hard times make hard men.

>> Hard men make easy times.

>> Easy times make soft men. Soft men makes hard times. And this is where guys like Jeff who have the perspective of their old heads and they've been around for a while, he's able to say to me, "Man, harden up, man, and stop taking it so serious." And I can be like, "Yeah, you're right. You're you're right." And that that's needed more and more to this at at this at this point in time.

>> A cliched question for you. the money involved. We'll talk about Houston and and you in a moment, but are the car parks in the facility, everything that I would imagine?

>> Yeah, it's out of control.

>> Is it

>> out of control?

>> Like the Romney what type of vehicles the roster typically rolls?

>> Well, you know, it depends on what what roster you're on. Uh Phoenix, I was around some some big car heads, old school cars, Devin Booker, Ish Wayne, right? Um I'm trying to think who else. KD, but then there's there's a lot of the new mixed in with that. So, a lot of Maybacks, uh, Rolls-Royces of the Yeah, mate. I'm out of control. Um, Houston was a bunch of young young kids. So, there was a lot of blue cars and like, you know, like these these flashy Mercedes with like, you know, wraps and Tesla Tesla trucks with, you know, these these matted wraps like just like more cars where I'm like, what are you doing? So,

>> have you dipped into that at all? I have a seven I had a 72 Ford Bronco.

>> Oh, nice.

>> Yeah. And I just sold it yesterday.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Um I want to ask you about fame in a moment, but uh fashion.

>> So I um there's lots of things I love about American sport. Even though I'm not a big consumer, I love the positivity about it. I love the fact that when individuals had a great performance, they don't have to defer to the structures and processes and they can say, "I was great tonight." There's a lot I like about it. I like the showtime. I love the entertainment. So, as little basketball as I watch, I do appreciate watching dudes rolling in their own kit.

>> So, so how have you as a as a as a man from Melbourne adjusted um one on expenditure and are like are you rolling without stuff? Like do you ever walk into the basketball think, oh [ __ ] I've got a bit carried away here or not?

>> Uh oh yeah, there's been times where I've been like, what am I doing? And then I get I get calls from from Andrew Bogurt and uh, you know,

>> with feedback.

>> Yeah. Being like mate you what is wrong with you? So uh

>> describe a kit where you think I probably got a bit carried away.

>> There was a kit there was a kit from Phoenix. I had like a retro t-shirt on and some jeans and I had sunnies on that were kind of like see-through sunnies and I I look back on it and it it went like it went on GQ Sports and they were like this is a great outfit and I was just like I'm embarrassed like I am embarrassed. So, and that wasn't even that loud to be honest with you. So, uh, yeah, I'm I'm much more of a like give me give me a good trench coat and a button-up shirt. You know, I wear suits every now and again, which again is probably a little bit excessive, but it's a I'm I'm more of a clean look than these.

>> Who's the most stylish you've seen? And who do you reckon has spent the biggest wedge?

>> Oh, mate. I know who spent the biggest wedge by far, but what do you mean by stylish out there?

>> Yeah, out there. Out there. I think

>> Dylan Brooks probably ticks both of these boxes. Old Brooksie or

>> So, what's what do you reckon Brooksiey's dropping on his outfits?

>> But are we talking like a,000 bucks or 10,000 bucks? We're talking 10 probably probably more than 10. He's an animal. So him like Jaylen Green, those kinds of guys, they go hard and and and the these are good friends of mine. So Jaylen Jaylen is out there, but it's atrocious.

>> Dylan Dylan Dylan is out there and it's atrocious.

>> So mate, you had you had success

>> in uh in Phoenix. So, your first sight of postseason, you beat the Clippers 4-1, you lost to Phoenix 4-2. Again, I don't follow, sorry, Denver 4-2.

>> From the reading I did and I listened to a couple of interviews that that Suns roster was seen as a potential NBA championship team.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were the only team to beat Denver more than once,

>> right?

>> And

>> is it a missed opportunity or they just a better team?

>> Oh, I mean, they won the championship, so it's hard to argue anything else. We felt as though we should have beat them. Y

>> um we chopped and changed the roster in the middle of the playoff series which is where we started winning games and then we just couldn't win one in Denver and that's what held us back. So

>> did you enjoy it? Did you enjoy it like seven postseason games?

>> Unbelievable.

>> Is it is it a better standard of basketball? Is it faster? Is it quicker or is it no

>> more physical? Quicker. So I'll give you an example. During the regular season they they protect their superstars a lot. the first 82 freaking games.

>> The first possession of that Denver series, I'm playing against the MVP. He's the best player in the world at this point in time.

>> Who's that?

>> Nicole Joic. And I I push him out to half court and then I'm just like bumping this dude all the way to the ring and he puts up this shot and he misses it and I kind of stop. You see me? I kind of stop for a second and I'm like, "Oh crap, that's going to be a foul." And there was no whistle and I was like, "Oh my god." And that was the point in time like I remember thinking to myself on the spot, I can get away from with some stuff. Like this is this is a different game. So

>> that was um that was when I really realized like uh what people meant when they said playoff basketball is a different type of basketball and it it fitted my intense personality on court and my play style a lot more.

>> So then you end up at Houston. Yeah. So again, on July 6, 2023, Landal signed with the Houston Rockets, signing a 4-year deal, you have to tell me if I've got this wrong, worth 32 million with Houston in 2023, averaging 8 million per year. However, only the first year was guaranteed and the Rockets chose not to guarantee in the remaining years. What does that mean? So it meant that I was essentially

>> and by the way, congratulations for all the work that that that you've been paid for your talents at this point.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So what what does that mean?

>> So it means it means that I'm a year by year worker like every other person in their their their jobs.

>> So you sign a four-year deal worth 32 million,

>> but I'm only guaranteed the the eight of the first year.

>> Now I pick up the second year, so I ended up making half.

>> Okay. Okay. And then at any point in time, they can they can just cut the rest of my deal. And they did that.

>> How do you find out that they've cut the rest of your deal, leaving $16 million on the table?

>> Through my agent, actually. Uh, which usually usually you warrant a phone call, but I didn't. And it was through my

>> ring you.

>> No.

>> Was it at the end of a season?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was an interesting experience.

>> Well, describe that experience. So, so like let's not be silly jock like you've earned 16 I this is US dollars I presume substantial money

>> so it's substantial amount of money it's enough to set your family up

>> no question

>> and I think people will understand the risks you've taken of the work you've put in and the industry you're in you get well paid

>> 100% welld deserved and congratulations for that

>> but the flip side of that is on a Monday you've got another 16 million coming to you in two years by Monday night. That's gone. That's off the table.

>> Y

>> it's brutal.

>> Yeah.

>> How do you take a phone call like that?

>> I just had my kid. I had I had I had perspective on my side and I thought, "Whatever, it'll be all right."

>> Right.

>> Um

>> that was that was the beauty of of my son being born when he was born because

>> Good on you, Archie.

>> You're correct. Uh, a year prior to that, if I'd got that call, I would have been like confidence out the window, shattered, like, you know, would have taken me a second to come back from it.

>> again, No reason. No reason.

>> No, no reason. The the the but the reason kind of showed itself afterwards. They they they sacked me. They ended up signing a guy in my position and I was like, "Okay, done. Bye."

>> So, you know, I'm a competitive guy. Like, I'm a hyper competitive guy. So, when I when I found out what the reason was, I was like, "Really? But it's that's their prerogative. So it just you move on and I have and now I'm on to bigger and better things and I'm really excited.

>> So now 2025 the Memphis Grizzlies as a free agent a one-year veteran which to me

>> I don't look at you as a veteran but a minimum deal

>> $2.5 million fully guaranteed. So that that's you get paid that whatever happens now. Okay. So you you've got a young family now.

>> Yep. Do you upstake from Houston and now move to to uh Tennessee?

>> Yep.

>> Right. Do you rent a house? You buy a

>> ended up buying.

>> So you bought a house.

>> Yeah. Which I which I I hate doing. I'd never do it.

>> Well, that's my next question. Like you buy a house, but how do you know that six games in these bikes aren't going to send you to

>> That's That's the risk.

>> Somewhere else.

>> That's the risk.

>> It's a crazy world, Jock. We we look I've got I've got a good finance people in in in my corner and and the rental market was so dire and the things that they were renting at the uh, you know, they asking for 20 grand a month and these houses were horrendous.

>> 20 grand a month

>> out of control. The rental market there is insane and I don't know why. So we looked at it and we said we can save a lot of money buying a joint. uh if we sell it, we get that most of it back.

>> Y

>> or we can put a reasonable price out there and find a good tenant after I go and they can rent this house off us and we'll make money on it. So,

>> you know, it was it just worked out. Yeah.

>> So, Memphis, I looked uh I looked at the roster again, not my strong point. Um, the name that stood out to me was Scottie Pippen Jr.

>> Yep.

>> who I presume must be Scottie Pippen's son.

>> Correct.

>> Right. So, what can you and Memphis do moving forward? And we wish you the best of luck.

>> Thank you, mate. Um, Memphis is a team that is constantly competitive and they're they're they're a pesky team. Their motto is grit and grind. So, they're a tough hard-nosed team, fits my play style a lot, and it's a team that consistently gives people problems and makes a lot of noise. It's a tough place to play. Uh, so balls in our court, you know, we got a we we've got a good team in place, young team, exciting team, and it's and there's a new coach at the helm who's going to, you know, really make some noise and let's see what Let's see.

>> So, with everything that happens, how do you not become cynical for the business you're in and retain your love of playing basketball?

>> Yeah, it's it's something that kind of comes and goes, I suppose, depending on the situation you're in. Um, but you have to you have to retain an innocence so that it doesn't

>> St. Mary's Day.

>> Yeah. You you've got to find a way to ignore the contract. Um, and see it as just bonus. Uh, and that's been a work in progress. Um, cuz at times I was chasing just money and when I got it, I realized I just want to play. So, that was a lesson hard learned. Um, but I'm in a position now where I've set that up and since having again since having my kid and I'll reference him a lot. He's taught me a lot. I've just realized that there's more to it. And so, I I don't the money is just like it's just in the back of my mind. And, you know, no matter how you spin it, this this is the perspective. You got Josh Giddy that signed for $100 million. You got Jock Land on 2.5 million. It's an insane amount of money and and and it's just it doesn't

>> it doesn't compute with people that like minimum not minimum who cares, you know, like

>> it's it's we'll be good and that's that's where we're at. So, we just we just enjoy life and and um enjoy seeing our son grow up and whatever, you know.

>> I love it.

>> Might buy a watch here or there and that's it. What's the fanciest thing you bought apart from my car?

>> Uh my I have a I have a bit I love watches.

>> Okay.

>> We always finish with the same question and I found this fascinating. I've asked you some ignorant questions and I apologize for that but it just like some of this stuff fascinates me. Cash considerations. I'm like what what does that mean? You explained it beautifully in your trips through Belgrade.

>> Um you'll understand the importance of this now because you become a father recently. What advice would you give to the youngsters out there that want to achieve something in their world? I always try and give different examples. As possibly an audio engineer or a watch maker or a professional surfer, what advice would you give them from your experiences, job?

>> Fall in love with the process rather than the result. Um I think that that is where that's where the love grows for what you do and that's where you you you find the obsession and the hard work becomes easy and um if you're doing what you love the the the results will come that that that to me is as e as simple as it is. I was lucky enough to figure out what I love to do at a young age and I sit here as a 30-year-old, you know, I mean, this was this was 15. I'm I'm going on 30 in a month. So, half my life ago, I found what I wanted to do and and and I've pursued it ever since with

>> a conviction and obsession and um

>> you know, it it's just as simple as that. Figure out what you love and just and just go and just go and do it. You can find a way to make it worth your while if that's what you're after, but don't worry about that. Just just figure it out. Figure out what you want to do and go from there.

>> It's great advice, mate. I've loved the episode. I got some advice for you now.

>> Beautiful.

>> AFL 360 just mentioned DOS lots because there's two of them kicking around still and you would remember that Peter, there's a discussion about where they should pick Bobby Hill for the prelim. Say to Gary, I do you think they should pick Bobby Hill? And go in there with your rider that they have to play you kicking from the other end of the basketball court and you'll kill it, mate. Hey, good luck. Me and Tommy are bloody on Memphis now, mate. Good luck. And um yeah, it's a it's a treat to have a chat with you, mate, and find out about your life cuz it's been extraordinary.

>> Well,

>> thanks, mate. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.