Transcription
Fist of Nicaea, this guy is an EO.
>> Oh, this guy has been mad. He's been at two, I think it is. He's been on the Twitter or on the other or on the No, no, mostly the Twitter, I think.
>> Hello. Can you hear me?
>> Yeah, we got you, man.
>> Okay.
>> Go for it. You have something to say to these guys?
>> Yeah, John, thanks for opening up the space. Specifically Mr. Sweden, and my question was why are you consistently posting stuff against Eastern Orthodox to the point
>> I'm going to I'm going to cut you off right here. Hold on. Once again, you know you know you know you know No, and I'm going to I'm going to stop because I think it's a dishonest line of questioning. You know very well that I feel and that my belief is that we are the Eastern Orthodox. You want to shove
>> John, I lost my audio. I'm going to plug in and come back in, okay? Plug out.
>> demand I use your terminology and I refuse to. So, let's start there.
>> I'll give you an example. So, the other day and I can't remember who it was, but some uh Protestant put up something attacking two of our saints. I know Eastern Orthodox wanted to defend. Are you even going to let me ask the question?
>> Can I ask who they are?
>> What's that?
>> Two of our saints. You mean your saints or you mean the church's saints?
>> The church's saints.
>> No, that's Who are they?
>> That's not the point.
>> Are you CO saying Porphyrios? Am I right?
>> No, I don't think that was correct.
>> Okay, then Oh, I was right on one, maybe not the other.
>> So, two So, two of the saints uh these two
>> When were they made?
>> They were Let me get out the question. So, this person was defending two of our saints and you started attacking them.
>> Poisoned question. If I don't believe they're saints, I'm going to attack.
>> No, that wasn't what you said. That wasn't what you said at all. You said I didn't think you were defending the saints. And I said if I don't You're just You're just going to talk over me?
>> Because you're not purposely not saying things to misrepresent. Who were they?
>> I specifically You You know who they are because you commented on it. What are you talking about? That's not even the That's not even the the the question at hand. The question at hand is why you chose to attack that person, not because you don't believe they're saints, but because you thought, "Oh, well, this guy isn't defending them." When he clearly was.
>> Wait a second.
>> Every single instance I see you, you're attacking orthodoxy. Why Why do you
>> Hold on. I'm not attacking orthodoxy. I remember what you're talking about now. In that specific scenario, you were talking about Saint Sergius and Bacchus, who were being misrepresented as homosexuals.
>> Correct.
>> The guy responded with the effect of something that I interpreted when I read it as "Well, so what if they if they were, you shouldn't be attacking saints anyway." The proper answer is they were not homosexuals, not "You shouldn't be attacking them if they were homosexuals, because that's weird."
>> That's not what he said. That's not That's not the defense that he made.
>> You want to pull If you want to pull up your argument on Twitter, you can, but it's a silly argument.
>> it up because that's not the issue.
>> I conceded I conceded that that might have been not my understanding. I might have misunderstood that. That's not a great example of that's what
>> Constant?
>> Constant, sir. And And why do you think that
>> have you been studying my my acts since you're saying it's constant?
>> I mean, every nearly every post that I've seen, there's maybe been one or two that was like neutral.
>> How many is that? I've never seen your name until like a week ago.
>> What does that What does that matter?
>> Or 3 days ago. So, as far as I'm concerned, I don't know how long you've been studying me. I don't know if you just decided to jump on and be a troll now because of this stream. As a matter of fact, I think I don't think I've actually seen your name ever until I was invited to this stream, which tells me that you could be somebody that I've spoken to many times over the years with a fake name, or you could be somebody completely new trying to misrepresent what I'm saying, or you could just be a troll. There's a lot of choices, but the point is when you present yourself as saying that I always speak this way, when you're suddenly a mysterious new authority that popped up on me, then I have every right to ask what your motivation is.
>> I can still draw from my anecdotal experiences.
>> but nobody knows what that is. It's a You're a nobody with no history, and you have no record of
>> let me give the question out. You're so busy talking
>> I'm going by my own anecdotal history. That's It could be made up, man.
>> You're an What's made up? What are you talking about?
>> You're saying your own anecdotal history, but you are an anonymous person who just showed up 3 days ago. That means nothing to it.
>> Who cares? Anybody can go to your X and look at all your comments.
>> They can't. They can't.
>> This isn't top secret, and
>> I know.
>> exactly what I'm saying right now.
>> No, they're not.
>> In almost every instance, you're attacking what you call World Orthodoxy.
>> that aren't
>> real question is, the heart of my question is, why do you Why are you going on the show thinking that John is your buddy? Because John is And I'm not And I'm not I'm not insulting you, John. You're You're doing the smart move. He's putting you on here to make Orthodoxy at large look bad. He doesn't even have to do anything because you're doing it yourself.
>> Here's the funny part, there.
>> You just went on there and said if somebody was between Protestantism and Orthodoxy, you'd tell them to go to Protestantism.
>> a I didn't I didn't actually say that, but more importantly,
>> what you said.
>> not. It's not. But
>> You said, "Oh, I don't know. Maybe maybe it just depends on
>> Well, no offense. No offense. The impression people like you give me of what World Orthodoxy is right now tell me I would rather people go to Protestantism than go to your crypto papist religion. So, since we are now talking here about what we're doing and what John's role is, let us say for example that you are correct and his purpose is to make world orthodoxy look bad. Surprise, Fist, that's also my purpose because I believe you guys are descended from evil murder people. So, of course, if I want to expose evil murder people pretending to be the church, I'm going to do that because that is the service of truth. Does that make sense to you?
>> No, that's that's a terrible terrible argument to
>> What are you defending?
>> Let me I'm arguing Let me Let me jump in real quick. Let me Let me steel man both of you guys really quick and and and that way the audience can can know what's going on. So, Fist, your position, correct me if I'm wrong, your position is that Father Joseph spends too much time or maybe he should spend no time in criticizing uh what you would call Fist Holy Orthodoxy and he would call World Orthodoxy because you believe that that is creating uh visibility for the fracture within Orthodoxy and and it's it's driving a wedge into Orthodoxy deterring people from Orthodoxy. Uh is that is that kind of a steel man of your position?
>> Yeah, John, pretty much. And and I would add him attacking Orthodoxy at large is actually hurting his own position whether he wants to admit it or not. But yeah, John, that's that's pretty good.
>> Okay. So, Father Joseph, your your position is that World Orthodoxy is a heretical group and they are not in the one true church. And so, on your view, they're the same as Catholic, Protestant, or anyone else.
>> Well, I say they're worse because they haven't been act because the Catholics and Protestants haven't been actively persecuting us for 100 years and trying to cover up our existence while trying to smother us and suffocate us.
>> So you So this is This is more personal for you because of how closely you and and the history of True Orthodoxy and World Orthodoxy is. And so then I I see Okay, so Fist of Nicæa, you see that as being counterproductive because you see Father Joseph as singling you guys out rather than attacking me and Catholicism, he's focusing on you because it's a personal more Well, I would say internal battle. You guys obviously don't see it that way. But okay, I I make sense of the argument now.
>> He's a spiritual son of people who killed our saints.
>> So So from here then, with both sides kind of steel manned, um Fist of Nicæa, go ahead and present your case as to why that's a bad idea for him because he does believe that you are heretical. Why is it bad for him to go against you?
>> Yeah, and and I understand his position, but I think what he fails to understand is Orthodoxy has had a tremendous boom. I don't think anybody would argue that. And if anything, it's probably helping him because more eyes on Orthodoxy will bring more people as a byproduct to True Orthodoxy, I I believe. Um so him attacking Orthodoxy
>> No thanks to you guys. You guys did not even want me on this program. So don't even try that. Don't even try to say, "Oh, that will help True Orthodoxy cuz they'll find him." No thanks to you. When I was on the Crucible debate, no less than David Erhan wrote the heads the hosts of the Crucible and said, "Don't let him on." So do not give me this garbage about how it's Oh, it's trickling down to the True Orthodoxy. It's coming because people are finding out about us because you're lying about us and I'm going on other channels and exposing it like this one.
>> Okay.
>> And that's why you're mad.
>> Anyways, well, I'm not mad at all.
>> Oh, of course you
>> No, I I
>> Even your name is mad. It's all made up. Come on, man.
>> My name is mad? What are you talking about?
>> You're Fist of Nicea. Like, "Oh, I'm I'm Saint Nicholas slapping Arius." It's all made up, dude. You made that up a week ago or less.
>> I'm not I'm not I'm Saint Nicholas slapping it.
>> don't
>> I don't even know what you're talking about.
>> That's okay, buddy.
>> Yeah, anyway, uh
>> Go ahead. Finish your point.
>> I was going to say, do you think that uh streams like this um are hurting Holy Orthodoxy or are they boosting true Orthodoxy? Which one or both? Or both What I'm asking is which one is is the most um frustrating to you?
>> I think they're hurting both. I think if you had true Orthodoxy coming out talking about their position um I I don't think there would be a big deal with that, but what That's not what he's doing. He's coming out and constantly attacking Holy Orthodoxy. And
>> not
>> it's not it's not doing anything good for him. It's doing the opposite because all the detractors
>> Well, I I
>> Just let me speak, sir. I mean, come on.
>> Well, no, if you're going to say I attack Holy Orthodoxy, I'm a priest of Holy Orthodoxy, Anonymous. So, don't tell me I'm attacking Holy Orthodoxy.
>> There's a category difference there. Obviously, what Fist means by Holy Orthodoxy to you, Father, would be
>> It's why I need to humanize Yes, I know.
>> So, yeah, I would
>> Could I uh interject here? Some The uh John, the Apostle John, in his third Epistle says, "I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth." And so, we have a standard of truth, and we're upholding it. The true Orthodox are upholding it. And I'm sorry that other people envy that and, you know, malign it and are embarrassed by it. But, that's the way it is. Truth is beautiful, it's wonderful, and we're presenting it, and we're calling people to turn to it and have the life of Christ and avoid judgment.
>> If that's your position, sir, and and that's what you're asserting, that's fine. But, that's not what this gentleman is doing. He's constantly attacking Orthodoxy, and my point is that it's actually hurting him because when he attacks Orthodoxy large and there's this big dustup, it allows detractors to see like, "Oh, look, Orthodoxy, they're obviously not Which which Orthodox church would I've already seen in the comments. And he doesn't understand
>> that's why That's why when people say, "Which Orthodox church?" I say, "Go to our map." The truth is The truth is honorable and will shine forward, which is what we are doing with Father Joseph and myself. The truth stands on it for itself. Jesus said, "I'm the way, the truth, and the life." And you guys are false and leading souls astray. And so, therefore, that's that's that's the way truth works. It exposes darkness.
>> Yeah, well, I don't I don't think constantly slandering people is how you get to truth, sir.
>> Who are we slandering?
>> What's that?
>> Who are we slandering?
>> Uh well, just the other day you said that I would if I could have you all thrown in jail, which is completely
>> that I said that people have said that to us, which people have said that.
>> No, no, no. You said I said, "Why would you think that I'm going to throw you in jail?"
>> Because other people have said that to us.
>> You said yes, you would. I said I wouldn't throw people in jail. That's ridiculous.
>> I I and I'll be honest with you Be honest with you, I don't know that I believe you. I think that had If you had state authority, you would probably throw us in jail.
>> Why would I throw you in jail?
>> Because of the fact that that is what your leaders suggest and have suggested for decades.
>> No, I wouldn't throw anybody in jail. One One of our most persecuted saints, Gabriel of Georgia, was tortured by communists, beaten brutally. Why do you think that I would do the same thing and throw other people in jail over that?
>> Well, you do You do realize that other people like Elder Gabriel who didn't listen to Patriarch Ilia did get thrown in jail. Like, I don't know if you were aware of that. There There He was not the only
>> there was There were There were bad things that happened and that's that's the course of history.
>> wait. Okay, here's the thing. Elder Gabriel was anti-Stalinist and was anti-ecumenist. He accepted a house from Patriarch Ilia. And frankly, that might have been the only good thing Patriarch Ilia did in a long time besides pulling out of the World Council of Churches. However, Patriarch Ilia was a professional ecumenist. Was a KGB agent and overall persecuted the true Orthodox. So, holding Elder Gabriel as a standard ignores everything that was happening around Elder Gabriel including holy bishops, many of whom were true Orthodox, thrown in jail at his hand at the Not Gabriel's hand. At Ilia's hand.
>> Sorry. Sorry, I'm not I'm not hearing your talk.
>> Come again?
>> Maybe it's just me.
>> Oh, you didn't hear anything I said?
>> John, do you have audio?
>> Yeah, I have audio. I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic and rhetorical or or if that was real.
>> No, I I I I I I I I
>> I I can't hear uh the the other person.
>> You can't hear him?
>> I I I I can hear you. I can't hear anybody else.
>> Interesting. Okay. Um
>> What's up, Father Joseph?
>> Hey, Molar.
>> Yeah, we got Molar.
>> What's up?
>> Fist, can you hear Molar?
>> Yeah, can you hear me, bro?
>> No. No, you're the only one I can hear.
>> Really?
>> apparently he can't hear anybody.
>> Hey, uh yeah, why don't you drop drop out and
>> and come back.
>> Um I was going What What's that?
>> Drop off and come back.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, probably. I I was going to I was going to bring someone else up as well, uh Fist. So, if you want to make
>> That's fine. That's fine, John. I've I've had my peace.
>> I I appreciate you coming up, man. Thank you.
>> Peace.
>> Yeah.