Transcription
We live in a time where masculinity is shamed and men don't know what it means to be a man. As a pastor and counselor, I've spent the better part of my life equipping and training others. My goal with this show is to translate my hard-earned experience into tools and tactics to help you become stronger as a man.
This is a Brave Co podcast. I'm your host, Jason B. Our Brave Co conference is almost here, and I couldn't be more excited. I've never seen a time where it's been more important for men to rise up and take their rightful place. God is grabbing a hold of the hearts of men, and I cannot wait to be in the room with you in Redding this summer. And I really believe that this gathering that we're having is more than a conference. It feels like a prophetic summit where we're connecting Fathers and Sons, and we are actually creating a rite of passage where men cannot just grow old, but they can actually grow up. We're brothers from all different backgrounds, all different walks of life, both domestically and internationally, are coming together, uh, to be in the presence of God and, most importantly, inherit an understanding of what does it mean to go to battle. I don't know who you are, but God knows your name. If you have breath in your lungs, that means God has a plan for your life. What we are starting to see is God uniting a company of men, a company of men who are brave enough to bond together and to rise up to change things. There is nothing like getting into a room full of men who are going to seek the Lord and who have a desire to grow in the things of God. How good and pleasant it is when Brothers dwell together in unity. And that's what I love most about this conference is that we all come together, we all come unified, we all come with our guards down, but most importantly, we all walk away with an impartation and a breakthrough in our lives. And I think you're supposed to be there in Redding, California, at Bethel Church. Join us. It's going to be amazing. I believe it's going to be a time where there's great impartation and a whole group of men will rise up in great courage to bring change and impact to the Nations around us. I ask you to come join us.
Welcome back to the Brave Co podcast, everyone. I am Jason Vallon, and we are in the middle of our series, "The Makings of a Man." And basically, we've been talking about what are the different attributes that make up a man. And this week, I have my favorite guy on the whole entire planet, my dad, here. Dad, thanks for coming. Yeah, thank you for having me on. Yeah. Um, I, I love this week. We're going to talk about leadership. And I love to talk about leadership with you because it's one of your biggest strengths, and you've been the greatest example of a leader in my life. And so I'm really excited to talk about how leadership plays into the role of, um, you know, being a man. It's one of the main attributes of being a man. But before we do that, I'm going to dive in and I'm going to read a story about Abraham Lincoln. Got it. I'm going to use my reading skills. This is a, a bedtime story. Yeah, close my eyes while you read it. Yeah, do it.
Abraham Lincoln, the 16th president of the United States, is renowned for his leadership during the Civil War and his efforts to abolish slavery. Born in 1809 in a Kentucky log cabin, Lincoln rose from humble beginnings, educating himself through consistent reading. His early life of hard labor instilled a strong work ethic and deep humility. Lincoln's political career began in Illinois, where he served in the state legislature, uh, and the U.S. House of Representatives. He gained national recognition during the 1858 debates with Stephen A. Douglas, where his arguments against the expansion of slavery positioned him as a leading figure in the Republican Party. Elected president in 1860, Lincoln faced a national divide over slavery. His election prompted southern states to secede, leading to a Civil War in 1861. Lincoln navigated immense challenges, making tough military decisions and managing in conflicting interests with his government. He focused his focus remained on preserving the Union and ending slavery. A pivotal moment in Lincoln's leadership was the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, declaring freedom for the slaves in Confederate-held territories. This shifted the war's moral purpose and bolstered the Union's cause. In November of 1863, Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address, a brief but powerful speech that reaffirmed the principles of equality and democracy, emphasizing the national unity of a government of the people, by the people, for the people. Lincoln's leadership qualities included empathy, humility, resolve, and effective communication. He empathized with others, sought advice from his cabinet, remained committed to his vision, and used his oral oratory skills to inspire the nation. Re-elected in 1864, Lincoln's second term was cut short by his assassination in April of '65, just days before the Confederacy's surrender. Despite his untimely death, Lincoln's legacy endured. He preserved the Union, paved the way for the abolition, yeah, of slavery, of slavery, yeah, abolishing of slavery, and set a standard for moral and effective leadership. His vision, resilience, and humanity continued to inspire leaders worldwide.
Well, as you see, um, I have like a sixth-grade reading level. So thanks, everyone, for sticking with me. You did good. You know that I memorized the Emancipation Proclamation. Oh, really? Mhm. In the eighth grade, I had to memorize it to pass. That's how bad my grades were. No way. Our, uh, you know, four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth to this nation, new. And I, I, I used to know the whole thing. I probably could do it again if I studied for an hour. That's awesome. Only thing I ever did in school that was proud of. Lincoln was such a great leader. Yeah, he was. He was one of our greatest leaders. Yes. And, um, he accomplished so much, you know, in his short time on Earth. Yeah. Um, and fighting for what he believed in, being willing to stand up for what he believed in, and taking a lot of criticism for what he believed in. Yeah. And true nervous breakdowns. Grew up in a very humble, you know, very humble beginnings. Didn't, didn't have a good father. Was, yeah, tough upbringing. Yeah. Didn't Abraham Lincoln grow a beard because his face was so ugly? Yeah. He met someone when he was, I think he was running for Senate, and a 10-year-old little girl said, "Mr. Lincoln, you know, on when he was, uh, he was, you know, um, meeting people, greeting people on, you know, in his campaign." And this 10-year-old little girl said, "Mr. Lincoln, your face is so ugly, you should grow a beard and cover it up." And he did. They, that, I don't know if it's, you know, if that's a true story, but it's a common story. And he, evidently, grew a beard and covered up. You know, he had a, he had a condition in which his bones had knots on them. Oh, so it made his face look distorted. So, yeah. But he was a lawyer. He's very smart. You know, I think he only had like a sixth-grade education from in the beginning, but very, very smart man. Yeah. Incredible.
Um, I think leadership is, of course, one of the greatest qualities, one of the most important qualities as a human being, but especially as a man. Um, because we are called to lead, right? Yeah. But when we think about leadership, Dad, what are the qualities that make up a good leader? If we're talking about, you know, being a man who can lead well? I, I would begin with trust. Because, you know, if you don't have trust, you actually don't have. I mean, all relationships are built on trust. And once you break trust, you, you, no one's going to follow you. And that, and then, you know, then the question, as you know, is like, well, how do you create trust? And I, I would say, in, if I was going to say it in one term, on, in one, you know, in one phrase, I'd say, you know, um, under promise and overperform. Yeah. And as you know, because you do a lot of marriage counseling, you're, and you run our Transformation Center, one of the toughest things to do is, is when you've broken trust, is to restore it. It's true. And when, like a husband and wife, when they're, if a husband has, for example, cheated on his wife, the restoration process of forgiveness is usually not that hard. But what happens? But how do I restore trust? Like, yeah, how do I know when my husband's a half an hour late coming home that he's not with someone else? Yep. Or when I get that phone call and the person hangs up, how do I know that's not another woman? So, you know, I think, like, being who you say you're going to be. And Proverbs says this, "A man swears to his own hurt and does not change." So I think that this is, like, the crucial part of leadership. If you say you're going to be there at three, you're there at three. If you say you're going to pay that bill, you pay it. If you say you're going to, you know, whatever it's like, that your word is your bond. Yeah. You can't be a great leader without having trust. You can't. And it's really hard to restore trust once you've broken, once it's broken. I think it's also true, though, you can be trustworthy but also not be a great leader. That's true. I think that, but you can't be a great leader and not be trustworthy, right? So I think that, you know, people, if you, people, you have to have favor with God and man. And if you, if you don't, if you don't have trust and you don't keep your word, and, you know, my grandfather used to, my grandfather hated signing contracts. Now, this is a long time ago. Oh, yeah. But he said, "My word's my bond." And my grandfather worked really hard to keep his word. And nowadays, I would say that there's a flippant kind of, "Well, I'll be there." And then you don't show up. Or, "I'll be there at three." And the biggest thing isn't that maybe it's not a big deal that you're there at three, but what is a big deal is that you're there when you say you're going to be there. Yeah. And that you do what you say you're going to do, and you're the person you say you're going to be. And so you're not an imposter. You're not, you're not an impostor, you know? Yeah.
Let's say that two guys have equal trust. What makes one stand out better as a leader as opposed to, you know, one who's? I think great leaders have a vision. And, you know, I think it's vision that is pain with purpose. So I think that, you know, if the difference between maybe a good person and a good leader and a great leader is that a great leader has a vision that inspires people to sacrifice for it. Because I would say the greater the sacrifice, the clearer the vision needs to be. And I think that great leaders know, I like to say it this way, they know how to get people pregnant with a vision. They know how to impregnate people with a vision. And they're easy to follow because they're actually going somewhere. M. And there's clarity about their about their purpose. And they're, you know, they're not wandering the desert, you know, trying to figure out where they're going. They have a deep sense of where they're going.
Do you think, do you think some people are born with vision? And like, some people are better at finding vision, and some people aren't? Like, is it a personality trait or is it a skill set? Like, when you, like, I could think of a couple people who are real visionaries, you being one of them. Um, someone like Sean Foy, he's a great visionary. Yeah, Sean's a great visionary. I would say, gosh, who else? Les, Lou Engles, incredible. You know, I, I think that, well, let's say this, you're always going to get better at your skills. So if you're an athlete, you're not born playing basketball, right? If you're an athlete, you're not playing, you're not born playing golf or baseball or football. So it's like, you might have, you know, you might be an athlete in that you have the natural tendencies, the athleticism, the, the reflex reaction, the flexibility, whatever it is, the speed. Yeah. But you still have to actually learn the skill of playing basketball. Yeah. That's true. So I think that there are some things that, you know, that I think there are people that have learned how to develop vision, who it's not in their, you know, they're not future-present kind of people. They're not people who are thinking about the future, but they've developed the skill of it. I think there are other people that, um, it's kind of in their nature to be, can I say prophetic? In that they're, they're always looking, like, where are we going, right? So I think, I think it can be developed. And I think even if you have it, you still have to develop it. Yeah. And then the second thing is that I think's important is that there are people who are visionaries, but they're not good communicators, right? Yeah. Learning how to communicate a vision is a craft. I would say, you know, there's so many examples of, "He who tells the best story actually rules the world." It's true. And, uh, in fact, you know, we're starting this, uh, we're going to, we're going to, in our college, we're going to actually have a course on storytelling because, Bethel College, on Bethel College, because storytelling, you can use it everywhere. Yeah. Like from raising your children to, uh, leading, leading your business or, you know, or the place that you work, to your employees. Um, and and and helping your friends. Like storytelling is one of the ways that, in my, in my example, is like one of the ways I get people pregnant. One of the ways that they, they, they are like, "I am in labor for something powerful." So I think there are people that are visionaries. So, so I'd say there's like, in our articulation, is kind of like, there's people who aren't visionaries, they can learn the skill of vision. They may not be, like, you know, metaphorically speaking, they're not going to play in the NBA, they're not going to play in the NFL, but they can actually improve their skills. Yeah. And there are people who are born visionaries, but they, they need to develop the skill, the skill of it. And then there are people that are born, born visionaries, they have the skill, but maybe they're not articulate, like, in actually inspiring other people towards towards a vision. They're after something, but they're not, they're not great at inspiring others. They're like Moses and Aaron. Yeah. Moses is like, "Ah, we got to, we got to talk to Pharaoh and free these people." But I'm not a great talker. Yeah. I need Aaron. And Aaron. Yeah. Aaron, unfortunately, wherever Aaron's going, he inspires a bunch of people, whether it's following Moses or following, you know. Yeah. It's true. But he's definitely articulate. Yeah.
Um, just like, real short, because we don't have to spend forever on this one attribute, but how does somebody start to build vision in their life? Because I talk to a lot of guys, yeah. And I, I would say this is probably the top three area that they struggle at. Like, yeah, that a lot of men struggle at. I, I don't know how to, like, build vision out and out. Know how to find what I'm aiming at, that type of deal. Do you have just a couple, like, pro tips for that? Yeah. I mean, to, you know, get when you're around visionaries, it's easier to learn the skill of vision. So hanging around people like, we have a close friend, Michael Clifford. That guy's like a visionary. Oh, yeah. He is. I mean, he's got like a new idea like every other week. You know, and he's really, he's good for us. He's catalytic to us. And then, uh, secondly, I think exposing yourself to things that are that you have a passion for, exposing yourself to it. You know, uh, or or things that you, that other people have a passion for that you like. If you don't have a passion, how do you find passion? It's like, well, help your friends with who are passionate about something, and you're likely to get passionate about it, uh, along the way. And and then I think that the third thing, which may be the most important, is, you know, actually, you know, we say spend time with the Lord, but I mean, spend the time with the Lord like asking, asking questions like, "Lord, I'm supposed to have a race to run and a fight to win." Yeah. I'm like, "I don't even know what race I'm supposed to run or what fight I'm supposed to win." And you said, "Love your enemies." And I'm supposed to be able to, I'm supposed to have some enemies, and I'm not even doing anything anybody's worth worth resisting. Yeah. So, you know, I got to learn how to pick a fight. Like, pick a fight. Like, what, what am I willing to fight for? What am I willing to die for? Obviously, for Jesus. But is there a specific purpose in it? And, um, and, you know, what race am I running? And I think that because we have a race to run and a fight to win, and you, and maybe we even have a Daniel to rescue, so to speak. Um, you know, it's like, who is that? And where are they? And what race am I in? And who am I supposed to fight? And I, I think a lot of us, we spend a lot of energy, um, re-fighting other people's fights. Like, people draw us into a fight. Social media is the greatest example of the stupidest fights in the world. Yeah. Like, people are attacking me about things that I, I have no passion to fight that fight. Yeah. And, you know, I love what Winston Churchill said, because Winston Churchill was a fantastic leader during wartime, and he said, "If you stop to throw rocks at every dog who barks, you'll never get to your destiny." Yeah. And I feel like there's a lot of men, Jay, that they are so distracted. They're throwing rocks at this enemy and throwing rocks at that enemy. They're defending themselves against all these barking dogs. And it's like, just, it's, it's a waste of time. Like, like interacting with people against you on social media, or interacting with, you know, people that you know don't like you. It's like, that's not your fight. Like, what fight are you in? Like, what, what are you called to do? What are you called to accomplish? When you die and you stand before the Great White Throne of Judgment, the Lord is the Lord going to say, "Well done, good and faithful servant." Meaning, I served somewhere. I did something worth doing. Yeah. In the, and the, and the New Testament is full of the story of the talents, which is the guy was a servant who was faithful with money. The story of the Minas, faithful servant. The story of the sower and seed, faithful servants. Like, I, there's a place to, there's seeds to sow, farms to farm, fights to fight, wars to win. It's like, I, I'm called to actually create forward motion someplace in which the devil has occupation, and I've come to destroy the works of the devil. So, if I've never resisted, Jay, you know, I, I don't know if Bill Co this phrase, but I heard it from him first, and he said, "If you don't run into a devil once in a while, you might be going the same way." And some people live in so much peace, and they're like, "I live in the peace of God." And I'm like, "No, you live in the passivity of life in which there's, you're not worth resisting." And then sometimes guys feel like there's something wrong because they're being resisted. I'm like, "You're finally doing something worth resisting." Yeah. You know, and, and the demonic realm knows your plight better than you do. I, I was thinking yesterday, actually told a story, I think it was on the podcast or something, but we both love the story of Gideon. Yep. And, you know, Gideon's supposed to go down and he's supposed to free the Israelites from the Midianites. And he's terrified because he's got 300 men, and their armies are described as the sands of the sea, numbered like the sands of the sea. And so God finally says to him, "Are you scared?" He's like, "Scared? No, I'm terrified." And God goes, "Well, go down to the enemy's camp. Sneak down in there and see what they're saying about you." And he sneaks down in there, and one enemy soldier is saying to the other enemy soldiers, just as he gets there, you know, obviously divine opportunity, "Last night, I had a bad dream." The guy's like, "What was a dream?" He said, "Well, I saw these, I saw this barley loaf rolling over all our tents." And the other guy goes, "Oh, that's none other than Gideon. He's been anointed to kill us." It's like it says to us, like, you're the enemy knows your destiny better than you do. And he actually, he actually resists you at your point of purpose. I, I'd like to say that, like, the enemy resists us at our point of purpose. Sure. So if you have no resistance, and your life is kind of, row, row, row your boat gently down the stream, which is kind of every man's dream, right? It's like, "I just want to live a life of comfort." It's like, "No, you actually don't." Because a life of comfort is a, is a life off the path, off the race you're supposed to run, and out of the ring you're supposed to win. Yeah. And, and so, you know, I think, I think it is a compliment to be resisted. And we are born, we're more than conquerors. So we're actually built for battle. And we're called the light of the world. So we're, we're built for darkness. And our feet are, you know, we're created with our feet facing forward, our eyes facing forward. We have no eyes in the back of our head. This is all divinely planned. Our ears, our ears are designed to hear forward. Our H, our arms are designed to only move forward. And my point is, like, we weren't even built for retreat. Yeah. Like, like our actual physical body is a sign that we were actually born to only to to only move forward. Yeah.
No, it's true. I think when I look at leadership, and even vision, there's two key components that I think are a must for leadership. The, of course, we've talked about vision, and we've talked about trust. I think that you have to have courage. You have to have courage, and you have to have grit. M. Because the level in which you lead is often dictated by those two things. The courage that you, that you have, right? The battle that you're willing to face, and the adversity that you're willing to stand in. To me, it's those two things, right? Like, um, I often think that what shuts down people's vision is their courage to face the fear of what it will take to get there, and their inability to withstand the pain, the tests, the trials that take the risk. You know, you can't be a good leader without risking everything. It's risky, even if you think you know, marriage and relationships and. But I, I really do. I think that courage, it, it's like, vision can activate courage, but often courage activates vision as well in our lives. And so I really think that for a lot of men, courage is something. I think twofold. Courage is something that can be imparted. You can encourage somebody. I can give you courage. You know, um, that's part of what God was doing with Gideon when he said, "Go and listen to what they're saying about you." But I also think that courage is developed. You see David goes and he fights the lion, and he fights the bear. And obviously, it took some courage to do those, but that gave him the courage to then, and the confidence to fight Goliath. And to take it's a growing thing. It's a growing thing. Yeah. And the more challenges that you face when you're younger, that's, I think that's part of a main part of a dad's job is to actually build confidence, but courage in their sons, right? So I've done these little things. I've done it with Dad. I've watched my dad do these things. I'm inspired. It's why I think men need heroes. I looked, and I've seen what what my dad can do. I've seen what, you know, Keith Alvord can do. That was one guy that I looked up to when I was a firefighter. I'm watching what he does. And although I'm scared, I'm willing to press in because I'm one of the men, right? And this is what I'm going to do. If you haven't been raised in an environment of courageous men and courageous women, even then, you see yourself through your own eyes instead of through their eyes. And you see yourself as if, man, I haven't really accomplished anything. I haven't really done much. I don't know that I can do that. And it really limits. It's like a, a, it's like a governor. M. On your vision, on your leadership. Because I don't really know what I'm made of. I don't have any stories that would show me otherwise. There's, um, there's a guy named Alex Hormozi. He doesn't have great character, not a great Christian. He's a great businessman. And he says, "You can only stand in in a mirror for so long and say declarations and declare that I'm this person and I'm that person, I'm this person before you don't believe yourself." You have to actually get out and do at some point. And we love declarations. Yeah. But I also love the other side of, you have to be able to to put the rubber where the road is, put your money where your mouth is, and be able to withstand, to be able to stand up. And that's something that I think every guy needs to grow in. And even check and say and see how much courage is my courage keeping me from being a great leader? Is my lack of courage? Is my lack of grit keeping me from being a great leader? Am I struggling in my marriage? Am I struggling leading my kids? Am I struggling in my business? Am I struggling leading myself because my lack of courage or my lack of grit? It's a, I think those two things are are huge. Yeah. And it's, you know, I like what you said about we have to have heroes. You know, a simple example is, you go skydiving. You, you know, and you've never, never done it before. You want to watch someone else jump out of that plane before you. And then when someone else jumps out of that plane and you see them, oh, they landed okay. Then, you know, you, then it becomes like you're following the hero, so to speak. You're like, "Okay, if he could do it, I can do it." Well, and you get strapped onto a person the first time, right? Yeah. You're teamed up. So somebody's, you're doing it with him. It's Jesus's model of discipleship, right? With the disciples, he calls them and he says, "Come, follow me." M. And they watch him do a bunch of miracles. Yeah. And then he sends them out, "You guys go do some miracles." And then I'm going to leave you guys. You know, like, yeah, they do it with him. And then he leaves them by themselves. Yeah. They watch him do it. Then he watches them do it. Then they do it by themselves. Yeah. And I think this is part of the reason why we need heroes. It's why you read the Abraham Lincoln story. It's like, it's why we like movies. You know, like, I think men are, they're activated by movies like Braveheart and Gladiator, you know, because we all need a hero to follow. Yeah. And we need somebody who, you know, who's already killed the lion and the bear. And I, I think part of the challenge that we have too, is, you know, we get in these places of what, like men's summits and these places where, you know, men are killing Goliath, but we've never killed a lion or the bear. Yeah. We haven't had a private victory, and now we're trying to have a public one. Yeah. So I think it's really important to realize, like, some of the things that we're talking about that are giants in our life would be a in someone else's life. Because when you start, you're, you're, you're killing, you know, you're swatting mosquitoes, and you know, you're doing things that other people aren't afraid of, but you're afraid of. And, you know, I think you have to progress in your, in your courage. And the other thing I want to say about courage before we move on is, I am convinced that people think that courage means that I don't feel afraid. It's the opposite. And it's completely the opposite. You know, your sister, um, is, you know, leading a, um, a school as a principal and superintendent. And I watched her lead through COVID, which trying to lead, yeah, an elementary school that goes in California, yeah, you know, K through eighth grade in California. And with you, I know, I watched her through tears push forward. Yeah. I watched her through sleepless nights push forward. I was with her on late-night calls, like, you know, uh, just reassuring her that it's going to be okay. As parents are angry with you, the government's upset with you, and the teachers are upset with you, and you can't make anybody happy. And, yeah, you know, your, your sister Shannon is wired for peace. She's wired like your mom. But she became a great leader because she was forced in a situation where she had to come up with grit. Yeah. And in my mind, grit is what happens when you are afraid, but you move forward. Yeah. Like that is a grit factory. And I think that it's, you know, it's one of the things that that I've learned. But I, I don't love it. I don't love to be afraid and have to move forward. No, I don't love the feeling of anxiety. Me neither. I don't love it thinking about somebody that I have to be in their office, maybe my, my boss, or my coworker, or my, my enemy, or my, whatever. And, you know, we're going to have a hard conversation. And my stomach's in knots, and I'm, you know, waking up at 4:00 in the morning thinking about, "We're going to have this conversation tomorrow." But I actually have to tell the truth. And that, you know, all of those things, what's courageous is that I do it. Yeah. And I do it enough, it becomes easier and easier. Yeah. It's real. I think the only way to not fight a giant in your life is to let passivity lead you. Because every life is sprinkled with enough giants that it, our life was designed to make us strong. You know, and I was thinking about, um, a second ago when you were talking about grit, that it seems to me that grit's developed one or two ways. In the first one is, I'm either led by fear, or I fill myself with like faith. And either one works, right? Like, I'm so afraid of not having enough money, you're failing. Yeah. That or like, I'm trying to please my dad, and so, you know, I never quit, I just keep going. Yeah. Or I have so much vision in who God's called me to be, or so much faith in what he's doing, or, you know, fueling yourself with vision, that I'm willing to withstand. And either one works. The faith and the vision and the hope is more fun. So much better. Yeah. I'll say hope is a massive component to grit. And we see that in the study with rats, right? The, do you remember that? That they put him in, uh, buckets of recycling? Yeah. There was this rat experiment. Yeah. And they put him in there, and they were able to swim for 15 minutes without drowning before they drowned. And then they took him out, dried him off, gave him a rest, then put him back in there. Had six swam for 64 hours or something. It's called the rat with hope, if you guys want to look it up. What's it called? The rat with hope. Yeah. And so basically, the scientists concluded when he was all done, like the rats who got saved were then able to swim days longer than, you know, than they were just days earlier, because they said, "Somehow, some way, if I just keep going, M. I'll be saved." In our life, like, man, I guess probably a massive component to being a great leader is hope. Yeah. And I, I was going to say before you said that piece, is that adversity is the mother of grit. Oh, yeah. And I, and I think that hope is actually the inspiration I need to get out of adversity. Is that I actually do have hope. It's the fuel. Lasting power. And everybody knows what it's like to have, you know, hopefully a hopeless hour or hopeless day. But, you know, when those days start to build up, and you have days piled up on top of one another, hopelessness, that's a tough, that's a tough season, you know? Yeah. Nothing feels better than like tons of hope. Yeah. Yeah. And hope is often something that we have to cultivate intentionally over and over and over again. And I found in my life that that hope is something that you cultivate like a garden. Yeah. It sometimes it hits you, sometimes you just feel hopeful. But people who live in hope, like Steve Backen, yeah, he's a great example. Probably one of the greatest hope carriers on the planet today. He really is. One of his messages, his key, key message. Yeah. He's one of those guys that has cultivated a life of hope. He's focused. He's, it's not just that he focuses on what's good, but he spent his life developing that muscle that's now very big. Yeah. Well, you know, thankfulness, and, uh, it is one of the keys to hope that you, that you stay thankful. And then, you know, also, uh, testimonies, right? Yeah. Testimonies, like, what God's already done for me. Yeah. Is massive. Is massive. And those things inspire hope. And then, and then also being around people that are, you know, that are hopeful. You, you know, um, I've, I've said this at least 100 times in the last two years, "Show me your friends, I'll show you your destiny." Like, who you hang around with. And we've said it, kind of, we've kind of went around the bush a little bit around this without saying it, but who you hang with matters so much. So much. It does. And, you know, it's like that birds of a feather thing, flock together. It is a deterrent when we're not doing well. And then misery loves company. These are all these, these are all like little idioms that we say, but they're actually a culture. Yeah. And so when I'm doing bad, it feels good to be around other people who are doing bad, right? Because it, it kind of makes me feel like, "Well, everybody's doing bad." But that is exactly how to build an ecosystem of poverty and destruction and victimization. And what I actually need is to be around people who are doing good when I'm doing bad. And, yeah, the first response to that is going to make me feel a little bit like guilty, cuz I want to feel like everybody's doing bad. But the side effect of being around people who are prospering or winning or pushing forward is that you either quit or you get in, you know, you get drawn in by their momentum. Yeah. And, uh, it's very difficult. Like, this is a part of grit to me. Like, this is a really, like, what is a grit? Well, practical part of grit is, I choose to be around people who are good at when I'm bad at, who are in a good season when I'm in a bad season, who have a good attitude when I have a bad attitude. Yeah. So that I can draft off their momentum. It's incredibly difficult to be around people who are doing amazing when you suck. Yeah. Incredibly difficult. It is so much easier to, you know, go down on the bar and hang out with the guys who are doing nothing and reassuring yourself that you're, you're good because everyone's everyone's broke. Yep. And, uh, I, you know, I was talking to this one of the, we just had the summit with, we invited 40 Kings, 40 CEOs. And one guy was sharing, and he made this statement. He said, "I really love COVID because COVID gave me a reason to be a failure." And everyone else was failing, and it was the first time in my life when my, my failure had a, my failure felt like it was okay. And then he said, "I realized that I have spent my life wanting to be around people who are failing because I feel like a failure." Wow. And God really convicted him. And said, and he said, "Yeah, I love the, I, he said, "I couldn't figure out why everyone else hated COVID, but I loved it." And he said, "It's because I failed most of my life, and now during COVID, everybody was failing, so I felt like it reassured me that I'm okay." Yeah. And then he said, "What a weird reassurance." And the Lord convicted him, like, you're reassuring yourself that you're a failure because everyone else is failing. And so, you know, and I, I think that's such a great example. What happens when we, we hang out with losers? Yeah. We hang out with people who have given up. They don't get in the ring. They're running no race. And, you know, and they spend their life, and the greatest adventure they have is watching someone else, you know, watching a movie where, you know, and I love movies, but sometimes I think movies siphon off the, the real need we have for victory because we watch it in virtual reality, feel the emotion of it, virtual reality, and don't even realize that it's not our victory. It's actually not even real. Yeah. Like, like William Wallace on that screen is not even real, but I'm experiencing the hero in me without actually having to be in a risk, because I'm, I'm entertaining myself to death. It's true.
It is. I think it leads us to a place where where we go, "Okay, in order to be a leader, you have to take action." Yeah. There's no leadership rule that doesn't include action. Yeah. And so, you know, decisiveness, however you want to say it, you know, the ability to make a decision and to move forward. Like, a good decision is better than a perfect decision late. Yeah. And that's realized talking to a friend, um, yesterday. We went out to lunch, and he said, "You know, I've realized that a fear of failure and my indecisiveness has is part of what's governing me." So, you know, he's got a little bit of money, and the fear of risking that and losing it is both keeping him safe and small. Yeah. It's a poverty mindset. But I, I see it in, again, like, we, if we look at the average everyday man, which I'm an average everyday man, right? So I'm thinking about my life, what areas do those look like? It looks like with my kids, it looks like with my wife. It looks like, you know, instead of instead of going, "Okay, what can I do today to better my life? What can I do today to grow my relationship with my kids? What can I do today to improve my marriage?" Marriage, I just go back into my comfort zone and my fear zone and just try to maintain the peace that I have, which isn't, it's a version of chaos, yeah, but it's better than failure in my mind. And that kind of living creates its own ecosystem, right? Yeah. But our, as a man, the ability to be decisive, the ability to take calculated risks, to get input from. And what I told my friend, like, "Listen, probably at first, don't try to make the decision on your own. You need a friend group. You need a friend group that has wisdom, that's saying, 'Hey, listen, this is actually a good deal.' And, yeah, here's three ways that you could not risk all of your money, but move forward." And that's what my friends and you have done for me over the past four years, really, with Brave Co, is like, there's a lot of areas that I, I want to delay and delay and delay. And then you start to realize, like, you can't. My delay is actually because I'm emotionally overwhelmed. I'm overwhelmed and I don't know what to do. That's my indecisiveness. But when I, when I become really decisive is when I start to go, when I give myself a deadline, I have to make a decision by the end of today. And, okay, what's holding me up? I'm actually looking for more information. A lot of times, I need more information about this piece. I need more information about. And then there comes a place where I have the information. Now I have to do what God told Job. Stand up like a man. Brace yourself like a man. Job, I'm about to give you some information that you're going to need to stay strong with. What I notice is that cowards will never have enough information to make them to to make them courageous. Yeah. And, uh, and fear in our own lives, you'll never have enough information to make you fearless. Yeah. So, you know, sometimes, you know, we are actually, you know, we're almost mummified by and paralyzed by how much information we, you know. And you can get information so easy. And the challenge is that, you know, you build a great battle plan has been repeated over and over so famously. And then, you know, after you shoot the first shot, the battle plan needs to be adjusted. So. It's true. You know, I think that my, my style is really, you know, I like to fail small first. So it's like, you know, ready, you know, shoot, aim. And I, I think that, you know, people actually jokingly say that about me all the time. It's like, "Ready, shoot, aim." But I think that you shoot, you see how you miss the target, and you adjust the scope, so to speak, and you keep adjusting until you got it. And I think that life is like that. It's like, you know, if you want to make a million-dollar investment, you know, you might start with a thousand-dollar investment. You know, and it was like, "Okay, well, try that. See." Yeah. See how we do with it. So. And, and I, and I, I think I've gotten, as I've gotten older, I'm like, "Yeah, I don't want to." I like when I was young, like, there was an adrenaline of risking it all. But now I have, like, I don't want to risk it all. I want to, as you point out, calculate risk. Yeah. And I think it's important though, risk is really important. Moving forward, uh, in some, in areas is really important. And then, you know, you will, you will fail at first, which is good. Because you learn more from your failures than you do your successes. And then you make adjustments, and you're like, "Okay, that didn't work. What, you know, how can I, what do I have to do to make that work?" And, and I think that it's just part of being a man. And I, you, you know, I, this seems like a different subject, but I see it as the subject as this subject played out personified in a culture of, you know, uh, men who don't date anymore. You know, sure. Our school and our church are full of beautiful women in their 30s who've never been on a date, not because they don't want to go, but because no one's ever asked them. Or never been on a, in a serious relationship, never been in a serious relationship, never been on a date, never, you know, it's like, I've got four or five, uh, girls that.
Assist me every day, uh, like work for me, and they're all single. And I'm like, and, and you know, most of them are in their 30s, but they all want, they all want to be married. And like, I, I was just having a conversation yesterday with, uh, with some guys, and I was like, when I was in the sixth grade, I had a girlfriend. Like, it was puppy love, of course. But I mean, it was the culture, you know? I never, to the day I dated your mom, like, I had a girlfriend from sixth grade on. From the time I had a sex drive, I've had a girlfriend. Like, there was a culture. Yeah.
And you know, I, I meet men every day of my life who are in their 30s and have never been on a date. They've never been on a date, or they've been on two or three dates. And it's like, I don't know. And, and I'm like, what is it? You know, what is it about this culture that, like, doesn't want to take a risk? Like, doesn't want to, well, I don't want to be rejected. It's like, this is men up. So, you know, when we're talking about life, uh, as a father, I mean, you got to get married first, you know? You got to.
And I think that we, we live right now in a, I, to be honest, I've thought about it for years. Like, I don't understand the culture we have. And we, we, I often talk to young people, guys, I'll be like, "Hey, have you dated anybody?" "You've been in school ministry for a year." "No." "I can't find anybody." "You can't find anybody? There's got to be a thousand single women in our school ministry who love God and who are beautiful." Like, it's, it's, uh, John Eldredge's quote, "Masculinity is not something a man's born with. It's something that's poured into him from other men." Is the byproduct of not having strong, powerful role models, leaders, mentors, brothers, totally, that are coming around other men and going, "No, you can do it." From a young age. Is if you don't get shown and you don't see, then, you know, you're like the Israelites who you think that you're a grasshopper. You think that you're small. You think you're stuck in, yeah, you're stuck in in this mentality that you don't have what it takes. And, and that's a, it's a very tough place to be.
But I do think what we were talking about a second ago about taking risks and trying. There was a study that, um, that was done. There was a, um, there's a whole group of people. They split them in half. They gave one people, uh, they gave each person, um, some clay and they had 30 days to build a perfect pot of pottery, right? To throw the perfect pot. Yeah. And they, but they could only do one. And then to another group, they had to make a pot every single day with their clay. And at the end of 30 days, the people that made a pot every single day were had, uh, better pots than the person who had one pot that had to make that one pot perfect, who worked on it for 30 days. Yeah.
And it again, it goes back to, you can focus on one thing for a really long time and only take one risk, or you can take a risk every single day. And as you go, you learn from your mistakes, right? You're going, "Oh shoot, I almost had it, and then I did this. Oh, I made it too thin. Oh, it was too thick. It cracked when I fired it. Oh, you know." And I think that's our life. I was, I was talking to, um, I was talking to, uh, my, um, my partners in Brave Co. And, you know, we're just in a crazy time. We got our conference coming, and the G is coming, and, you know, a fundraising deal. And, and we have this big vision ahead of us to get a thousand churches and a million men in discipleship. And we were talking, and, um, my friend was like, "Man, it's, it's hard because we tried this thing and it didn't work, and we tried this thing and it didn't work, tried this thing and it didn't work." And I'm like, "I know, we're getting better."
There's, there's just, unless you have, unless you're building an IKEA piece of furniture, right? God gives you a tree, and he doesn't give you furniture. He gives you a tree and he says, "You're a builder. Try and fail until you get it." And that's us, right? That's life. This is, I only say that because like, that's what everyone has to do. That's what you have to do. It's what I have to do. It's what we're all still doing, men, is we're all showing up in and growing in the area that we've been called to build.
We're going to close this down pretty soon, but I want guys to do this. I want you to look at the, the main areas in your life. So you're looking at, at your finances, um, you're looking at your business or wealth, you're looking at your physical health, you're looking at your relationships, um, including your relationship with God. And I want you to sit down and go, "What do I want to be said about me?" Or what do, what do I want to be able to say about myself in these areas? So with your relationship with your wife, what do I want to be able to say about my marriage? Totally. I want to be able to say that I can clearly, confidently communicate with my wife, connect emotionally, that our sex life is, is great, that she respects me, that, um, that we're friends. Okay, great. That's vision. That right there is vision. Totally. This is not massive vision, but it's good. It's good enough, right?
What do you want to be able to say about prosperity and wealth in my life? I want to be able to say that, uh, I'm free of debt, that I can, I have enough money to, you know, to support charity, that, that I'm generous, care my family, I can take care of my family. That's vision, right? Now you have to start asking yourself, "What do I have to do to get there?" I've got $220,000 of credit card debt. Okay, great. How can I bring in more money? Right? Or my marriage is actually suffering right now. Well, I want to have a great marriage. Why is it suffering? Because I have low conflict resolution skills and I'm blowing up my marriage. Okay, great. You know, if you start to go through guys like this, to me, is your homework. We try to leave guys with, with an activation plan. This is your homework. Go through the main areas of your life, right? Your, your finances, your business, your relationships, your personal, uh, health, your spiritual health, and go, "What do I want to be able to say about this area?" Just make it really simple. And then back up, "Where am I at today, and how do I close that gap?"
You may have to bring a friend in because you go, "I don't know how to close a gap. I know where I want to be, and I know where I'm at, but I don't have any great ideas." No problem. Totally. That's where a great attribute of, of a leader is humility. A leader doesn't know all the answers. They know how to get the answers. Yeah. And that's, that's an important piece. Dad, you want to add anything?
No, I mean, just as we close, I just want to encourage people. It's, you know, day by day, one foot in front of the other. Um, you know, sometimes when we feel bad about where we're at, you know, sometimes the, the mountain looks so big, and the journey looks so long, and the, and the giant looks so, so, you know, overwhelming, huge. And, you know, I, this saying really, you know, stuck in my mind years ago when someone said, "How do you eat an elephant?" "You know, one bite at a time." At a time. And I think that, you know, when you get inspired like this, and then you go home to the giant, you're like, "Crap, you know, what do I do?" It's like, move forward. Yeah.
And I'll say, in, in my life and in yours, like, there are days when I inch forward. Like, literally, I gained an inch. Or on some days, I'm like, "I was in a storm, and I didn't back up." Yep. And then there are other days where, you know, it feels like we went three miles. And it, and, and I just want to inspire people, like, take your vision and break it down into like, daily, daily steps. And, you know, if you're really new at it, break it down into hourly steps when you're awake. And, and just do it. Yeah. And just do it. And, and I think that, you know, if you look at this big thing, "I want to have a great marriage." "My marriage sucks right now." It's like, "Okay, well, start somewhere." Yep. Just start somewhere. And, you know, if you, if you're going nowhere, you, you, you'll get there soon. Yeah. But start somewhere. And, and, you know, challenge yourself that, you know, keep track of it so that you, you're, you can see that you're building. Yeah.
And it's, it's maybe a kind word today. It's maybe, it's, it's maybe, you know, uh, something that you, you've been carrying, uh, unforgiveness for. And it's like, and you're like, "I want to do this amazing thing, but there's all these, all this crap in my closet." It's like, "All right, you know, before I can build something, I have to like, get this stuff out of my foundation." So, you know, it's like, just take, get a piece at a time. And I think financially, the same thing. You know, if I owe $50,000, and I owe 10 credit cards, and it's like, "All right, take the least expensive credit card." Maybe I got one that has $500 on it. Say, "I'm going to pay this one off." You know, I'm not going to try to pay off my $30,000 credit card. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to pay one credit card off. Yep. And, and, you know, and it's like, I'm chipping away at it, and I'm making, and, and momentum, as Maxwell says, like, momentum is like miracle. Like, when you get momentum, it's true. Everything changes. It's kind of like when you get your car rolling, like getting your car going takes three times the amount of energy as what, as to keep it going. So it's like, if you can pay off the least expensive credit card, you can say you're sorry for something that you, that you, you did that you know you're wrong about. It's like, "Okay, you know, you, you can, one, one small act." It's like, "Yes, that, that marriage is a $50,000 problem, metaphorically speaking." Yeah. And, and I put $100 towards it this week, but I'm going to get there. Yep.
But what, what happens for all of us is, you know, like, "I want to clean the garage." And I open the door, and I'm like, "I don't even know where to start." Like, I just keep throwing things in here for three years and slamming the door. And, Y, now I open the door and things fall out. It's like, "Where do I start?" It's like, somewhere, somewhere, just pick a corner and start. Yep. And the, the hardest thing to do when you're stuck is freaking get started. It's true. And, and, uh, and I just want to inspire you, like, just do one thing every day. Like, it doesn't have to be amazing. It just needs to be something that is going to move you forward. Yeah.
And I 100% guarantee you that if you will do one small thing for 40 days, in maybe take on this, the, the hardest area, just do one thing. Yeah. By the time you get to about the 26th or seventh day, there is something that happens to you. And I know it's because I've done it. Like, I had to do this in COVID. And you get momentum. And you wake up, and there's, there's something happens in you that you don't even realize it's happening. And you're kind of like, "Oh, I did this yesterday. I did it day before. I did it the day before." Or I did it before. And I wake up, and, and there at some point in my journey, this 40-day, 40, 40-day journey, I wake up and I realize, "I wasn't afraid today." Like, "Wow, this is the first day." Yeah. "I did something towards my marriage without anxiety." 26 days of anxiety, and today I did it without anxiety. It's like, you kind of wake up going, "Oh, something is changing." Yeah.
And, you know, and it might take you two years of, accept marriage. It might take you three years to fix. You know, it took me three years to fix our financial problem when we went broke and owed 1.8 million. It was 127 suppliers. It was people calling every day. And then, you know, I just got them, wrote them all down on a, on a piece of paper. These are all the people I owe. And I called every single one of them. I, and I, you know, it took me two months just to call them. Like, cuz it took, cuz I, I called, like, I called three a day. Always try to call one hard one and two easy ones. And like, "This is my situation. Here's where I'm." Every time I get any money, I'm putting it towards you. D. And just, you know, keeping in touch with the people I owed money to. And, you know, it was three long, hard years. Yeah. To get everyone paid off. But we did it. But it just starts a few dollars at a time. We get an extra $50. Like, I'd get an offering. I'm like, "Okay, let's, let's pay that credit card down $50."
My biggest point right now is, do something. Yep. Pretty much anything. Yeah. As long as it's moving it forward. It's the 1% rule, right? So 1% in, in compounding interest, like with your life, you know, if you do 1% for a year, that's a lot. That's a lot. If you do 1% for a lifetime, that's a lot. If you, if you would have started on your marriage 10 years ago, working 1% just every month, "I'm going to get 1% better." Yeah. That's it. It really adds up.
And I think leadership finally is, is ownership. It's taking ownership of your life. It is. And making sure that you're doing something to be a steward, to grow, giving God something that he can bless, giving God something that he can get behind and push on and help, uh, add his strength to your strength. But you have to put your part in, because God doesn't do things for you. He does things with you. And so, Dad, thank you so much for. Yeah, thanks for having me on. And, uh, and just bless everybody who's listening because I, I feel like this is a new era. It's a, it's a, it's the, the beginning of a whole new era for us. It really is. All right, man. Stay brave out there. Do your activation. Oh, and by the way, um, we have our Brave Co conference coming June 12th through the 14th, and we want to see everyone there. Um, so hopefully we see you guys there, especially if you're local, show up. Otherwise, have a great week. We'll see you next week. God bless. Hey, Brave Co. And hopefully you love this week's episode. Listen, if you have not subscribed to our podcast, you are already behind. Go ahead and click right here to subscribe to our podcast. And if you have not watched last week's episode, you can click right here and watch last week's episode. And listen, if you want to upgrade your wardrobe, you can check out some of our new hats that we have in stock and all our other swag. Go to Braveco.org and you can look at our store there. Have a great week. We'll see you next week.