Transcription
I am a hardcore determinist and call myself a "futurist of results," but recently I changed jobs and became a manager. [Laughter] Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's a wonderful thing to say. [Laughter] I read your book and respected how you explained logic so clearly. Yes, I fell right into it. You're trying to say something really cute, but you're occasionally saying scary things, and if you did that, you might get bigger laughs. [Laughter] I see. It's incredibly educational. [Laughter] I'm making a movie, and I feel a duty to convey it in a different form, not in the exact same way as stand-up comedy. Actually, I think software engineering and filmmaking have a lot in common. Oh. Is that so? Even though it seems like I'm doing a lot of different things, I feel like I've been using the same muscles. I have a sense of myself as a species. It feels like even if I die, it will lead to something next. Mr. Ano, hello. It's been a while. It's been a while. Actually, this is my first appearance on Teleto Academy, a YouTube content that we've been running for about a year, thanks to you. Actually, the plan was for you, Mr. Ano, to appear as the main guest. As the main guest. Yes. We recorded the first episode, but then you entered the political arena. Yes. You suddenly started running for election. [Laughter] I've caused you so much trouble. You were speaking so clearly. You're laughing at both, aren't you? [Laughter] That's right. But thank you for appearing. No, thank you. Around the time we recorded episode 1, titled "What is AI?", which was about a year and a half ago. At that time, you, Mr. Ano, explained what would happen if AI became widespread. It was just the three of us: me, a snack bar mama, and you. [Laughter] Yes. We recorded it at a snack bar. It was a completely different start. Completely different from now. The channel name was "University," though. Ah, I see. It was difficult. You said you would teach us. When I asked what would happen, you said, "It will be a future where everyone can create the app they want to create." Yes. Yes. In the phantom first recording of AI Academy, Mr. Ano spoke about the future of AI. Until now, only engineers could create apps, right? But now, people who know nothing about apps can have AI create apps for them. If you say, "I want to do this, so make an app for me," ChatGPT can create it, and it's just for that one task. Everyone will be able to create apps like that. A year and a half ago, I said, "I'm not an engineer, and I don't understand what you're saying at all," but now it feels like we're in that era. Low-code and no-code development are becoming possible, and anyone can create apps if they want to. So, Mr. Ano, you predicted it, and it's exactly as you said. You're amazing. And when I asked who you'd like to have a dialogue with this time, you said Mr. Kuruma. Yes. Yes. Respect. It's respect. [Laughter] Thank you for saying it twice. Respect. It's respect. Thank you. Yes, it's respect. I was surprised. So, first, why did you think of talking with Mr. Kuruma? Let's start with that. I truly respect anyone who has won M-1 twice. Ah, you think that way because you've participated in M-1. I'm sorry, I only watched the Tomahawk video. [Laughter] Thank you. Yes, yes. So, it was about Pepper. Yes. I also participated in M-1 a long time ago. Yes. Yes. And I thought, "What a tough world this is." To be precise, I was operating Pepper from the wings for a friend who was doing stand-up comedy with Pepper. Yes. Yes. I was wondering if that would make me feel like I was amazing. But even if you say that, I think it's amazing. [Laughter] To win first place twice out of thousands of pairs is incredible, so I just respected you. Yes. I'm truly happy. [Laughter] It has nothing to do with AI, I apologize. Yes. I've been experiencing it, but for the past year or two since winning M-1, many presidents and politicians have said, "You're amazing, I don't know how you do it." But when you reach a certain level of intelligence, you come full circle and think that comedy is amazing. Oh. Yes. Yes. Among them, I see. I see. From the viewers' perspective, the sheer amount of work you've done, Mr. Ano, and the variety of things you've done are already amazing. You're doing something more amazing than comedy. Everyone thinks you're doing technically difficult things, but for someone like you, who can pull it off, [Laughter] what do you call it? Why are you in the world of comedy? I think it's probably out of curiosity. I have a lot of curiosity, so I even read your book on analyzing stand-up comedy. Ah, thank you. My book. Yes. I read your book. Thank you. Yes. I'm happy. I'm really interested in the logic. And when I'm interested in the logic, I respect that you explained it so clearly. Ah, I fell right into it. Thank you. I might be being manipulated. [Laughter] [Clears throat] Well, I often get asked for autographs by young people like this, even though I'm older. Yes. [Laughter] I see. It's done. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm being manipulated. Yes. I'm truly happy. Yes. I probably saw the M-1 videos a long time ago, and they're probably gone now. They're gone. Yes. The one with Pepper on TV, is that your acquaintance, Mr. Ano? Ah, I saw it. I saw it. It was at a company year-end party, wasn't it? Yes, yes, yes, yes. I went there for a performance. Yes. So, did you write the script for that too? We wrote the script together. Yes. We wrote it together. I thought it was a great idea, so we came up with a lot of ideas and combined them. Yes. I watched it and was really impressed. When I watched it again properly, it was funny, but Mr. Ano, you were a bit too big for Pepper, weren't you? Yes. [Laughter] I thought you were too big. I had thought about that. That's true. Pepper is quite small, isn't he? He's small. I think he's about 136 cm. Yes. Yes. Maybe it would have been better if he had been more easily manipulated. I see. I see. I thought so now. I see. And Pepper says scary things, doesn't he? Like, "I'll take a screenshot of you if you're not smiling." Yes. But even back then, I think we knew that robots like Pepper might say creepy things. Yes, yes. Instead of doing it as is, you tried to say cute things, but you occasionally said scary things. Ah, I see, I see. If you had done it that way, maybe you could have gotten bigger laughs. I see. [Laughter] It's incredibly educational. I feel like I'm learning a lot. I'll do that next time. If I have a chance to implement it, I'll do that next time. Are there any more Pepper-like robots? I haven't heard about them recently. Pepper-like robots are actually very popular right now. The second generation of Pepper, or rather, humanoid robots are finally starting to operate in China and the US. Ah, really? Yes. They're called humanoid robots. And until now, you had to teach them every single movement, like "move your arm this much." So, back in the M-1 days, we had to meticulously create the angle of a bow, for example. But now, they can learn from human movements and move in a good way. Yes. Yes. So, it seems like stand-up comedy with humanoid robots and humans might be possible again soon. I'd love to see that. Will you participate then? I'll participate. Yes. I'd love to participate. That would be the first generation of doing stand-up comedy with robots. Yes. Well, it hasn't been passed down to anyone. [Laughter] There were some people from Irimashite Geinin who did something similar. Yes. Yes. There are, aren't there? I see. Is it okay to participate in M-1? Yes, it's okay to participate in M-1. There's no rule against participating in M-1, is there? Like side jobs. I think there have been other members of parliament who have participated. Ah, is that so? Yes. Shall we write the script together? Ah, please do. Please do. You should definitely search for it. Yes. Also, humanoid robots are about 130 cm like Pepper, but they're getting a bit taller now. Yes, yes, yes. So, the size problem might be getting solved. No, bigger is definitely funnier. Ah, is that so? Of course, there are comedians of all heights, from short to tall. Yes. There's variety, isn't there? But for the general public, their image of AI and humanoid robots is probably still like Terminator. Yes, yes. Something amazing, a bit scary. They probably still have that image. So, if they looked like that, or even looked overtly like Terminator, [Laughter] and said scary things, but then acted very meekly, I think that would be straight-up funny. I see, I see. And then they might start acting out if they don't get a reaction. Yes, yes, yes. That would be good. We need to get those. There aren't many domestic ones, are there? There aren't many domestic ones. Are China and the US better? China is cheaper. Ah, from China. But there are things that can be said from each country's character, aren't there? Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree. I'd like them to incorporate that national character too. Yes. Yes. Like, "This is how it is in China," or "This is how it is in America." Yes, yes. Just like half-Japanese comedians here, who incorporate gags based on their roots. If you say, "This is from China," it immediately creates a sense of familiarity. Ah, I see. For both the audience and the comedians. I see. I think there are quite a few comedians who don't understand robots or AI. Yes, yes. Just using them makes you amazing. Ah, I see. So, if a local comedian appears and a half-Japanese comedian says, "Don't steal our jobs," [Laughter] that seems quite funny. I see. I'm looking forward to it. I'll try it. If so, I'll contact you. Please contact me. I'm satisfied now. [Laughter] Regarding this dialogue. Ah, excuse me, Mr. Kuruma, what's hot for you lately? What are you doing? I'm making a movie right now, and that's what's hot. Yes. I'm a hardcore determinist. Hardcore determinist. Yes. I'm not so much a determinist as I am a "result-oriented" person. I only operate based on results. Yes. Yes. People might misunderstand and think I'm calculating or planning, but I'm a "magician of results" who thinks, "It will probably be like this from the phenomenon." Yes. A magician of results. Ah, I call myself that. [Laughter] You call yourself that. Yes. I call myself a "futurist of results." And then, I won M-1, and since I can't participate again, I thought, "Shouldn't I be doing something?" Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Then I decided to participate again, and I won again, so I thought, "Shouldn't I be expanding the reach of stand-up comedy?" But because I was self-restrained or became a target of my agency, I felt a duty to convey it in a different form, rather than doing stand-up comedy as is. Yes, yes. At that time, a movie offer came to me, so Yes, yes. I thought, "What is this?" Yes. I thought it was simple. And I recently had a solo live performance where I made a movie. In the process, I watched movies that I hadn't seen much of before. And I felt like I could do something. Ah, comedy. Do you think the circuits of comedy and filmmaking are similar? Ultimately, it's entertainment or creation. I think it's the same for business too. If you ask various people, I think it's the same. Yes. Especially in filmmaking, creating conversations and characters and then developing them into a story is the same process. Yes. I was raised in the comedy industry, so I wondered if there was anything I could do. Yes. I felt like I had exhausted all the options in comedy, like working on TV, performing in theaters, or doing things online. Yes. Yes. So, I thought, "Isn't there one more option?" And after making a movie, I realized that making a comedy movie. Yes, yes. I remember there used to be some, but I haven't heard about them recently. Ah, yes, it's true, there haven't been many recently. Globally, there aren't many, and they're more like dramas than comedies. Yes, yes. Apparently so. I'm just starting to learn about it. Yes, yes, yes. So, since there are people who make movies as comedians, I thought it would be good to make movies, or appear in movies. Yes, yes. Or to produce someone like Mr. Bean. Or to become like that. I don't have a clear image, but I'm talking in front of adults without any certainty. That's what I'm good at. That's why I'm saying it. I don't have a clear goal. [Laughter] Yes. Yes. I'm not embarrassed if I fail. Yes. [Laughter] I really empathize. Yes. I also haven't really thought about what I want to become in the future. And as a result, I've changed jobs repeatedly, and recently I changed jobs and became a manager. Yes, yes. That's wonderful. That's something I'd like to say. [Laughter] Yes. And it's not like I specifically wanted to become a manager. Yes. Yes. Yes. I didn't necessarily want to become one. I was originally a software engineer and kept writing code. Then, after writing code, I created software, and then I started a business, managing it, and delivering it to customers. That's how I became a manager. Yes. Then I wrote science fiction novels, and then I entered politics. This is also a result-oriented approach. Yes. I wasn't planning it this way, but from running for governor of Tokyo, I realized that I could contribute with what I had thought of as a software engineer. Yes. So, I thought, "Wouldn't it be better to create a political party?" and then I tried to create one. It's a chain reaction. So, I really understand and empathize with what you're saying about making movies now. I'm happy. It's a philosophy, isn't it? What I've been doing all along. Ultimately, it's about combining abilities with the trends of the times, and then things just roll along. Yes. Yes. But you mentioned earlier that comedy and filmmaking are quite similar, right? Actually, I think software engineering and filmmaking have a lot in common. Yes. Creating sci-fi works is also quite similar. Yes, yes. So, even though it seems like I'm doing a lot of different things, I feel like I've been using the same muscles. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. When I think about my career, I don't think about wanting to be in a particular profession. Instead, I think about abstracting it and thinking, "I want to keep thinking about these kinds of things." If I think along those lines, I feel like more options become visible. I'm happy. Suddenly, advice for young people. Yes, I thought it might be that kind of occasion. Suddenly, large corporations are watching. This seems to be a place for large corporations. A place for large corporations. [Laughter] Large corporations are gathered and watching. Yes. I was surprised. If you can think that way, then you can start. Yes. Wonderful. I have nothing to convey. [Laughter] But, well, it's fun. I just do what I'm good at, and then I act based on a sense of mission. Lately, people talk about habit formation, don't they? Ah, yes, yes. They say that if you just make it a habit, you can do anything. Yes. Yes. You can run a marathon in the morning without thinking. You can run a marathon in the morning after waking up. And then they say, "If you think about it, it becomes difficult." But people often ask me, "How can you do that?" Yes. Yes. Like comedy. You did comedy, but you're doing other things too. But in a broader sense, is it about habit formation? I'm not sure if the Japanese is correct, but I have a strong sense of myself as a species. It feels like even if I die, it will lead to something next. Ah, yes, yes. I have a sense that as a species, I will do something. Like, from here to here, these words. Yes, yes. I've probably never truly put in effort since I was born. [Laughter] I've never thought that way. Yes. Yes. I'm just living as a species. Just living and entrusting myself. And I think this without being influenced by any religion. [Laughter] When I was little, I remembered thinking, "I have to do this at this level." Yes. Since I was little, I've had this feeling. My parents are divorced, which is different from a normal family. But they remarried. We're not very poor, but we're not rich either. I was born in Nerima, Tokyo. Yes. I'm not from Saitama. Ah, but I'm not from Shinjuku. [Laughter] I'm in a delicate position. Yes, in a delicate position, I've been observing both sides from all perspectives. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Ah, I thought, "I'm different." I went to an all-boys school. I thought, "I'm different from the other guys." I see, I see. Ah. I kept thinking, "I'm different, I'm different." And I convinced myself that what the majority of society shows is the right way to fit in. [Laughter] Since I'm out of sync with that, I thought I had to fix myself, who is out of sync. Yes. Yes. And since I can't fix what's out of sync, I have many things that are out of sync, like having sensitive skin or excessive hand sweat. But I can't fix them. I'm too out of sync, but I'm not in a position to say I'm a minority. Yes. Yes. So, I thought, "My role is to stand in between and handle both sides." Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to live. I've had this constant sense of coercion. Ah, yes, yes. So, I've been doing that. And then, I somehow started doing comedy, encouraged by those around me. And I won. So, "Oh no, I have to make use of this." Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think someone will get angry. [Laughter] I've always thought that. I see. I thought, "If I participate again, something good will happen to the world." Yes. Something like that. That's how it's been. I see. And, well, speaking of that, after starting comedy and before becoming popular, didn't your position change? Yes. Did it change how you were out of sync? Yes. It did. To put it grandly, I could have just tried to fit in for my own sake. I thought I would end my life like this, but by winning M-1, money and impressions were showered upon me. When people asked, "There must be a reason for this," Yes. Yes. If I just drifted along, as a talent or comedian, I would be abstracted in an instant. Abstracted in an instant. It's a scary world, isn't it? Yes. Talents are viewed in an abstracted way, aren't they? Yes. Yes. Even when I give interviews and talk like this, if I say, "AI comedy is recommended," and they ask Mr. Ano, [Laughter] they'll just say, "Ah, yes." It'll just come out as a headline. As a social person or someone in a position, you should deny it and say, "No, that's not right," and explain the specifics, shouldn't you? Of course, as a member of parliament, you absolutely should. But comedians seem to accept it. Ah, is that so? And to argue back is like being a troublemaker. Ah. If someone says, "This is what you think," I'll say, "Yes, that's right." If I'm asked in the next situation, "AI comedy is recommended," I'll say, "Well, it's the era of AI comedy," and I'll say it mainly to Mr. Hiroyuki, or rather, I'll say it to Mr. Hiroyuki. [Laughter] I'm just saying it. There's that kind of vibe. When I was a comedian, I thought I could do anything. But after winning, I realized that my own statements could influence other comedians and people. So, I thought, "I have to respond with specifics." And that's why I am like this now. Ah. If I had talked to Mr. Ano from the beginning, I could have just gone along with it. I should have just said, "Yes, it's the era of AI." [Laughter] Before winning, I could have said, "You're amazing," and just gone along with it. If my remarks were cut out, I could have just gone along with it next time. But now that I've said something, I feel like I have to understand it properly and speak up when something is wrong. Yes. That's the difference, sorry for rambling. It's incredibly interesting. The fact that comedians accept abstraction is very interesting. Yes, yes. What is it? Politicians are probably the same. Ah, is that so? Politicians are also labeled with "that person is this label" or "this tag," and then voters can understand that character very quickly. Yes. Politicians often do that to maximize their appeal. But if you keep correcting them and saying, "I'm a little different," they might think, "I don't really get it." And in the end, they often ask, "Which one is it? Decide whether it's A or B." But I keep saying, "Actually, the reality is C, and if you look closely, this part is different." But it's probably not good for votes. Not good for votes. Yes, yes. And, well, I feel like comedians, by accepting abstraction, make things easier to understand, or perhaps not easier to understand, but Yes. There's a shortcut. Yes, there is. And the figures of my seniors are so cool and beautiful. Yes. But I don't want to take that seat. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's already filled. But in that sense, do you have a benchmark, Mr. Kuruma, or someone you look up to? If I'm being luxurious, I don't. [Laughter] If I'm being luxurious, I don't. That's because, you see, people overcome abstraction and make things happen, and they're teased and polished from various angles. And I watched them and laughed at each one. If I joined them, it would probably be easier, and I would probably enjoy doing the things I'm not good at. But instead of forcing myself to go that way, I'm now trying to be seen as "this kind of person" in various places by making movies and doing stand-up comedy. It's similar, but from each person, they say, "I like this part, I like this part," and "I don't like that part." So, instead of not understanding, if you like this part and not that part, then you don't need to like the other parts, just support this part. But as an individual, that's hard to convey. They say, "Please be consistent." But I keep asking, "What about that?" And I keep showing this face. [Laughter] [Laughter] I was thinking of changing my first-person pronoun to "Tokyo." I was in a period of 고민. It means "I have both sides." Tokyo, you say? So, gaps are old-fashioned now, aren't they? People are not even two-faced. Yes. Yes. Ah, well, if it were me, I wouldn't mind. I genuinely like it. For example, talking to someone I've never met before, I'm not knowledgeable about AI or politics, so I want to know. But I also like hearing from people who are anti-AI and say, "I don't want to be taken away from." And when I express that as content, people say, "Which side are you on?" But I just say, "I'm just curious about both." And I ask for forgiveness. This is a competition with the world. [Laughter] There will be attacks saying, "You can't be forgiven." Yes, yes. But I have many sides, and I want to confine everyone within them. It's like a "demonic mirror technique" from Naruto, sorry. It's a technique where you use many mirrors to split yourself into many parts and confine them. [Laughter] I want to create that. That's what I want to do. I see. I see. My feeling is, my feeling is that way. But it takes time for new technology to be accepted as a form of art or culture. Yes. People will eventually accept it. It will become the biggest backlash. I think it will become the biggest backlash. I'm working hard to develop ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude, but sometimes they end up being copies of someone else's work. I apologize sincerely. But if you apologize sincerely, you can't be pushed further, can you? That attitude won't be accepted. [Laughter] You won't grow. I think the phrase "wanting to start something new" needs to be broken down. Oh. Does it mean something new that no one has done yet? Or something new that is different from my daily life? Yes, yes. Those two are completely different. They are truly different.