Transcription
Uh, but what's up?
What's up? How are you?
I'm good, man. How you doing?
I just want to have a conversation.
Okay.
Respectful woman. [clears throat] I'll be honest. To be honest, uh, I have a couple of issues. I don't have many issues against Christianity, but I guess I just have some issues like how we're defining good and how we can see these actions uh, in scripture and even just like outside of scripture with how we're defining things as good and bad.
Okay.
And a main issue I have is that I feel like um uh the Christian God will fall to absolute divine theory. I mean, sorry, divine commandor.
Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I have an issue with that obviously because I think divine command theory is very dishonest.
Okay.
Uh so, when you're defining good is when I say good, that's that's going to refer to his essence. And you would say that his essence is also identical to God. So whenever I say God's essence, I also would say God.
Okay.
Well, the issue I have with that is that's when it just sounds like it's going in a circle then. Cuz you could also just say if you say this the phrase God is good, it's the same thing as saying God is God.
Oh, so you just want a definition for good.
Yeah. But I don't want it to be inside of God then. I want I mean it can be inside of God, but like that's what I'm saying is that's going to be circular. I want to bring up.
Would you say that good is like an act? Like we can't empirically know his essence then, right?
I don't I don't know what you mean by that.
I mean, you would say that God is like his essence isn't knowable.
It's not fully knowable. No.
Okay. But we can like Yeah. Okay. That's We can see the effects of it and we can know cuz we're conscious and sensient if something is good or bad.
You can reason to like a god exists.
Okay. That's great. Okay. So, yeah, that's what I want to bring up. Uh because I think that there's going to be some scripture verses that would go against something [clears throat] if we're reasonable.
Okay. So I want to bring up answer what goodness is.
Uh I mean you're defining good as God. Like that's fine.
Well, not necessarily. Like so goodness is going to be the aspect of being that is desirable. So goodness is going to be synonymous with that which exists under the aspect of desiraability. Um or you can say that goodness is
Yeah God God is like existence itself uh right but specifically goodness is going to be being under the aspect of desiraability you could read about this in um I believe it's St. Bonaventure he talks about this or you could talk about being as mean as goodness is uh that which is fulfilling and perfective of one's nature. Um
it just depends as to what what you're talking about.
When we say fulfilling of one's nature I'm saying that's only going to be known as like what we can see the effects of what he commands. Right.
Um I don't know what you mean by that question. So, would you say that God could incarnate like take three babies from a loving family and put them in a meat grinder
and put them in a meat grinder?
Yeah. Could he do that?
Like, is it possible? I I don't know what the purpose I don't know what the purpose would be, but like if it was for some
He wants to play with a meat grinder.
If it was for some good, I mean, but if it's not if it if it's not for
He's doing it for no reason.
Oh, then no. God damn.
I'm saying there are things that he can't do. we can see like through his actions. So I I just want to bring stuff up like that where it should be like there are things that we know God can't do.
Okay.
So uh we can go to there's a couple. I mean there's a lot. What do you want to go through?
Pick a topic. [snorts]
Yeah. I just want to go to scripture if that's fine.
That's perfectly fine.
Okay. Can we go to Deuteronomy 22:28-29? Yeah. Okay. If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed and seizes her and lies with her and they are found, then the man who lie with her shall give the father of the young woman 50 shekels of silver and she shall be his wife because he has violated her, he may not divorce her all his days.
So the issue I have with this verse is that's going to say that if a man, you know, grapes a woman, no,
then was a verse with I mean actually versus grape go.
Yeah. If a man meets a virgin and sees what does seize mean here?
To captivate. To seduce.
Well, yeah. But someone who's a v seduce.
Yeah.
Okay. You know what Deuteronomy means?
No, I have no idea.
Yeah. So, dudero means second and like the enemy is going to refer to the law. So, Deuteronomy is literally second law. It's the retelling of the law. There's a corresponding verse like this exact law is talked about in the book of Exodus 22:16. Uh, oh
yeah. So you can Yeah. Exodus 22:16.
If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall pay the bribe price for her and make her his wife. If the father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins. This is literally just a retelling of the law. But uh
but this this is law still saying if a man seduces a woman then he then the woman is forced to marry her. No. No, no. So, well, in this culture, you have to remember that like women didn't have jobs. So, the way in which they get taken care of is like the husband is the one who's going to provide for them. So, if a man is going around, he sweet talks his way into the draws, right? And then he defiles her to where she's not going to get married because the men wanted to marry virgins, right? So, she's not going to be able to get married, not going to be able to take care of which is why he violated her. He did something without the father's blessing, right? He did something outside the means of which he was supposed to, which leaves her just destitute, right? You just took something.
This is actually protecting woman then. Okay.
Exactly. Yeah. Like the in regards to Great.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
You have books on this you can send me. That's actually really interesting.
Um I don't have a a specific book on that.
How do you know that? I've never heard someone give a pop. Like most people they hear this verse and they freeze up.
Oh. Uh, I mean it's just Yeah. No, it's just like reading the context. If you read the previous verses, it talks about grape
Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I know. Did church fathers talk about this?
I think so. Um
I've just I've never seen anybody reply to this ever. I don't know.
Uh, somebody Yeah, somebody in the chat says bloody, brutal, and barbaric talks about this, I believe. I haven't read it.
Um
Oh, that's that's interesting. Okay. What about Huh? Okay, that's I mean that's I mean that's impressive especially for back then then.
I mean I think so too.
I mean you just got rid of all the dude. Uh well okay. What about you just knocked out like five verses. I'll [laughter] be honest. I Okay. Uh, what about what about like any of the slave verses?
Mhm.
I mean, it just depends on [clears throat]
Deuteronomy 15:12-18.
Yeah. [sighs] Okay. Uh, if your brother, a Hebrew man, a Hebrew woman, is sold to you, he shall serve you six years, and the seventh year you shall let him go free from you. And when you let him go free from you, you shall not let him go empty-handed. You shall furnish him liberally out of your flock, uh out of your threshing floor, out of your wine press. As the Lord your God has blessed you, you shall give to him. You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt. Uh and the Lord your God has redeemed you. Therefore, I command you this today. Um yeah, does this verse wait? This is 15:12 through 18.
Oh, I thought you said uh through 15. What's the name? But if he says to you, I will not go out uh from you because he loves you and your households until he is well off with you, then you should take a all and put it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your a slave forever. And to your female slave, you shall do the same. It shall not seem hard to you when you let him go free from you. For at half the cost of a hired worker, he has served you six years. So the Lord your God will bless you in all that you do. Yeah. So, I guess you should just have that is that like is this if this wasn't fine in the New Testament, I'm sure this wouldn't be fine now. What's the difference between this and right now?
Yeah. Um, so they didn't have
I have another question. I I should have phrased that better. Why does God not just so like the the covenant goes from just for the Israel and then it goes to universal in the New Testament? Why not just have a universal law always?
Okay. So if I answer that question, um it might sidetrack uh like the answer to this. So I'm going to answer this verse first and then I'll answer that instead of
uh Okay. So in regards to this, there wasn't like um welfare, you know, ED. Uh there weren't these like um uh like socialist programs back then. So when somebody owed a debt, they would sell themselves into slavery. Now the thing in regards to um to the Hebrews which was really really revolutionary at this time was they were supposed to treat their slaves in a very particular way. One of them is that okay you get sold a slave you're only going to be able to keep them for 6 years. The seven you go free it's symbolism back to the Sabbath, right? Also you need to remember that you were once slave so you're supposed to treat the slave how you want to be treated. And then if this person loves you, which means that you're treating this slave in such a way, even when you free them, you can't let them go empty-handed, but you must furnish them so that they have the ability to go out and actually have a life of their own. And then if they choose to stay because they love you, then you could have a sign that, hey, this person belongs here, right? Um, and you know, you're you're going to take care of them for the rest of of your, you know, of their life. But that's a responsibility on the master to house this slave. Um the slave, you know, is working off some debt, but if he decides to stay, then he decides to stay. Uh that's in regards to to this verse. Now, in regards to the universal law, well, first off, do you understand the answer?
Yeah, I do understand what you're saying. It is good. I don't Bro, y'all got to like
So the person I know who who knows how to get cuz like all I'll like see people just fumble.
Yeah. So in regards to like newer systems, right? Like what you see in the church in regards to the New Testament, what you see in the church is that uh when you read the book of Acts, you see mass amount of people giving a lot of money and then they are helping the poor. So this like helps uh people who could end up in slavery actually pay off their their debt and things like that so they don't end up in slavery. And then you also have like the way in which um Christians understand debt is that our debt was paid by Christ when we did nothing to deserve said thing. So when you see like Paul talking about a slave, he says, "Hey, I'm not sending him back to you as a slave, but as a brother in Christ and you're supposed to treat him as such. what you're talking about.
Yeah. In Phileiman. So those are different. And then now today we have like programs to where you don't have to we don't have a barter system where it's like I got to work it off.
Um now in regards to the universal law, when you go back to the book of Genesis, you see that God delivers this law to like all of humanity [snorts]
and then humanity pretty much rebels. You read about this in the book of Genesis 11. And God divides the nations um among what's called the sons of God there. And God chooses a specific nation, namely um Israel. And he says, "Hey, I'm going to shine my light through this uh particular tribe because all nations rebelled. So now I'm going to show all the other nations what I could do when you pledge your allegiance to me. Like how you're completely separate and how this salvation could uh spread to the ends of the world." So that's why it comes through Israel then to the rest of the world. It started off to the like to the whole world. They rebelled. So he chose one and says now I'm going to use this one to shine my light to the rest of the world. Uh when you go off screen I can't hear you.
Oh my bad. My bad. I was looking I was looking something up. I was looking
Yeah, No, no problem. [snorts] You thought I was worth.
Okay,
that's a that's a
Yeah, I mean I would be dishonest if I said that wasn't a good reply.
Thank you. All right, you got to stop complimenting me. They're going to say I paid you to come up here in a second saying it. What the [laughter]
This isn't my first time up here.
I came up here like last week. Okay, cool. Yeah, I
I mean I got like I got like one more verse and then general questions, I guess.
Okay.
I'm actually my dog.
All right, for sure. Wait, did you come up here and talk about like you have a pug?
Is that you?
Oh, no. We we we were talking about distinctions and you had like some some stuff UP HERE, BRO.
OH, I was just watching our conversation today actually. Is that Is that getting posted?
Yeah, it is. Is that okay? I won't post it.
No, go ahead. It's funny.
Okay. Okay. Okay.
I was talking about it with someone someone else. His name is uh Blicks.
Blicks. Yeah.
I think you know who that is.
I think so. Yeah,
bro. He was laughing, but he said, "I'm going to go on YouTube." It won't happen.
It probably won't blow up. Blow up. So, you chilling, bro. Um,
all right.
But yeah, what's up?
Oh, I'm Emperor X. Yeah. Uh, the the other Deuteronomy verse was Deuteronomy 21:10-14.
Mhm. Okay. When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God gives them into your hands, and you take them captive, and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pier her nails, and she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and remain in your house, and lament her father and mother for a full month. After that, you may go unto her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. But if you no longer delight in her, you shall go, you shall let her go where she wants, but you shall not sell her for money, nor shall you treat her as a slave since you have humiliated her.
So the end is like that is a good part, but like what is the point of some like taking a woman for captive?
Yeah.
Is it just going to be because the woman would have nowhere else to go? So take like but why not give her citizenship for example?
No. So this is what people do on part of their own free will. So like you know if you do these things
do this
uh they don't have no they don't have to do this.
Oh okay.
Uh but if you do these things you can't just go in there and how like say for instance the Vikings or people during this time did is that they would go and just grape these people. What God says is that nope you're going to shave their heads cuz you're acting out of your lust. So shave her head so that she isn't that desirable to you. Allow her to mourn. She you're going to take care of her for a full month. you're not going to do anything. Um, and you're going to try to remove that physical attraction so you're not acting off of your lust. If after all of that you still desire her, then you can marry her. But you're not just
Oh, wait. That's what that Oh, I thought it was like to humiliate her.
No, no, it's not. It's not to humiliate her. It's to curb the lustful desires of the person who just went in there unal alive their parents and took her captive thinking that he just going to go in there and have sex with her.
So y'all So y like the OG feminist? I did not know. [laughter] Bro, cuz I read that verse. It just sounded evil if you put it in con. Okay.
Yeah,
bro. Where? Look, I'm not trying to like
All right. Where have you read this? So, I've never like I've put this in front of people, bro, and they just freeze up.
Yeah. Um I mean, it's it's a lot. There's uh there's a a book that talks about um there's a lot actually. Like I think a easy place is going to be like Bible project who helps like just help you understand the law really. Like I gained a real appreciation for the law. Oh yeah, that is true. Uh my friend Jordan Travis, he said Michael Heiser. I love Michael Heiser. Rest in peace to my
Michael Heiser.
Yeah. Um but yeah, there are a lot of people who talk about the law.
How do you spell his last name? H E I S E R or H I E S E R. He's an older white guy. Um and then commentaries honestly like I did so like when I had started my my YT I was um I was doing a Bible study. I would do a Bible study that I'll hold at my home every week and I would stream it. Absolutely no views. But that's where I would study like the Old Testament. I would do complete Bible studies on like dang near every chapter or every book of the Bible. So, I was reading a lot of different commentaries and scholarly commentaries. So, I can't remember the exact books. Um, but yeah, Michael Heiser does have some stuff on it as well.
All right. I'm going to buy some from I just put them up. Yeah, I'm going to look at his books later.
Oh, I really really love his content.
What about there's like looks like this verse in Numbers? cuz I don't even think there's like a you know the one where Moses said something. I don't even think God commanded that though. [snorts]
I don't have an issue with that one. I don't think it's a real issue.
I'm pretty sure Moses said that, not God. I know there's one in Exodus where it says you can hit like hit your slave.
Um you said in Exodus.
Yeah, I think it's Exodus 2021.
Yeah. No, it's not 2021 because Exodus 20 is the Ten Commandments. I think it's 2120 though.
Okay.
Um, no, my days are messing up. Okay. Uh,
that's crazy. What?
The whole shaving thing is crazy to me.
The whole what? [laughter]
Bro, I thought he was just humiliating them for no reason. Like I did not know there was a a get. Like that's a good explanation.
Yeah. Um but yeah, so Exodus 21:20, when a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and a slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money. Um, so like to be avenged is to take the take the life. Um, so that's what it means to to be avenged. So you're not going to go and unal alive the slave master for um for beating his slave and his slave survives. But and there's a law that talks about when you beat your slave, anything that you do to harm is supposed to be repaid in full. Uh, eye for eye, wound for wound, strike for stripe. So you would get hit back
like Yeah. Like you can't you can't do that. And God always references back to Israel being slaves. Like you're not supposed to treat your slaves the way that you were treated in Egypt.
So
Oh, so it would say like let's say you do this, it'll just happen back to you.
Yeah. Like um so if you unal alive like this slave has dignity. So for a lot of people the slave was their property, right? So like if they they weren't even people. So if they unal alive their slave, they're like, "Oh, like bet like that's my that's my slave and I could I have the freedom to unal alive them." Um I don't know if you watch anime, but like in Vinland Saga.
Have you seen Vinland Saga?
Yeah, I've I've read the whole thing. I love it.
Okay. So you know like when the master was beating Hila um the girl and Snake stops stops him and it's like yo this is your slave. You could kill him if you want but know that if you keep going then you are going to kill her. and he decides not to. Like um that's that's really how it was. Like the slave was your property. If you decide to kill him, there was no um repercussions for you. So what this is saying is that oh you beat your slave and you kill them. No, they should be avenged. Like you you get killed for that. But if they survive a day or two, we're not going to kill you.
Um but you're still going to there's still going to be repayment for strike for strike, eye for eye, wound for wound, all of that. Yo, y'all got to like talk about this more cuz I just see people freeze up. But like now this makes far more it's it's more in Bro, you doing all this, you know you going to end up on YouTube again. So you going to have two videos.
No, low key like put it on YouTube cuz you you got to tell more Christians about this.
Okay, bro. God bless you, bro. I really do appreciate you.
I appreciate it, man. Thank you very much. Yeah.