Transcription
[Music] In our previous video with Dr. Romani, we talked about the signs to look out for when dating a narcissist. Now, we're going to talk about the four different types of narcissists. Dr. Ramani, thanks for being back here with us.
Thanks. This topic is so fascinating, especially being in Los Angeles, which I feel like might be the narcissistic capital of the world. You know what I said to someone once? I said, "You want to study tortoises? Work in the Galapagos. You want to study narcissism? Live in Los Angeles." I mean, it is, it is rampant here.
I think so, at least. Yeah. Before we get into those four types, quick question. In your estimation, what percentage of the population is narcissistic?
It's a tough one because, again, it's a trait, right? It's not like a disorder where we could actually do an interview or figure it out. It's, it's, you know, if I were to hazard a guess, like people who are noticeably narcissistic, we're like, "Whoa," you know, I would put that number probably to 10 to 15%. I know. Means do I think it's a majority? When you think of your own friends, most of them are saying, "Good, empathic, kind people." But I do think that a 10 to 15%, that's a lot of people. Now, again, I'm sort of pulling that number out of the air. It's just a difficult, it's a difficult statistic to get. Not to mention that the measurement skills we have are not very good, right?
But to think, even if you're in a room of 20 people, one to two of them easily actually would be classified as narcissists.
It depends on what kind of room, like, you know, for 50 percent, you know, but if you're, you know, or you're like a lawyer banker meeting or something like a little. I but I don't know if you're some sort of like a community volunteer meeting, you probably wanted to is a very good place. Yeah. So I was shocked to find out that there is not just a blanket term narcissism or narcissistic. There's actually four different categories for this. Let's talk about this.
Yeah. If you look at the research, and this is definitely as I've gone over the years, looking at what's been written, I really do think that four primary types have emerged. They're sort of our classical grandiose narcissist. That's sort of like that, I don't know, that the Chanel suit of narcissism. It's the classic representation. The person who's sort of very egotistical, arrogant, attention-seeking, validation-seeking, "Look at me, I'm so great. Don't I have a beautiful house?" They don't stop to listen to anybody. Again, your garden-variety grandiose narcissist. Okay.
Far more problematic is the malignant narcissist. This is the person who is all the things the grandiose narcissist is, lacking empathy, entitled, and grandiose, and big, and pompous, but they're also really mean. They will do really bad things. They almost feel like they're a little bit psychopathic. They often won't even feel that bad, maybe a little bit guilty, but not for you.
What do you mean? They do bad things?
Um, they will steal money from a company. They will cheat on their partner. Like, really bad, like, really bad things. Yeah. No, no, I'm not talking like saying like, "Take more peppermints than they should from." Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. You know, I'm talking about, and they'll, they'll lie, they cheat, they steal. These are your Bernie Madoff types, you know, like really malignant. They just sort of they, they're make great criminals, you know? And again, and we could talk about it at some point, there's a difference between a psychopath and a narcissist. By and large, a narcissist, even a malignant narcissist, will feel a little bad about doing some things, especially feel bad if they've hurt other people in their circle. So if they do bad things, they'll be sorry they hurt their family, but they often won't really care about other victims. Nothing. So that's your malignant narcissist.
Then there are some other types of narcissism that people don't realize. And like, "Oh, that makes so much more sense." The key one in that one is called covert narcissism. Covert is a word that means secret, really. So a covert narcissist is somebody who is very sort of put upon by the world, but they're still grandiose. So they'll say things like, "Yeah, like, you know, I'm a really great photographer, but the world never really noticed my greatness. I guess I just came up at the wrong time. And all these cameras you guys use now, it's easy now, but back when I was taking pictures, I could have been one of the great ones."
Or is a covert narcissist older? They can be, but not necessarily. Okay. They often feel like life done them wrong. You'd be quite passive-aggressive. Hmm. You know, they're that person. They're just, they always feel, they almost feel depressed. And in fact, more than a few of us will initially think the covert narcissist has depression and will treat them for depression. Why? "This is not getting better." "And it has been 10 months. Even if they're on meds, by now, something should have happened." So someone who has been classified as a covert narcissist and then treated for depression will not show improvement. If they're depressed, they'll show some improvement. Depression, but they'll still walk around like, "Woe is me. Wow. Can anyone see how great I am? I do so many great things for the world, and I guess it wasn't my time." And, you know, and they, they'll be very vulnerable. If somebody said, they're very hyper-sensitive to criticism. So somebody says, "Yeah, those pictures were good, but we're not going to be able to hang them up in our gallery." What? "Your?" Yeah. And they'll throw a tantrum. They'll become really cold. They'll become distant. "No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not coming to your gallery opening. My pictures weren't good enough for you." That's the covert kind of like the "I'm not fired, I quit."
Yes, exactly. They really do feel like the world never got their greatness. Wow. That's the covert narcissist. Yeah. There's a lot of those in Los Angeles, out of that. And then that often gets missed as well.
No, they're not even that confident unless you listen. They really, it's always like, "Nobody gets how great I know." There's a fourth one. But before we go into that, let's dive into that. How, how would I know? As I'm not a clinical, you know, psychologist, how would I know if my friend or this person needs confidence, needs a boost, or if they're a covert narcissist?
Look at how victim-y they feel. Hmm. You know, like how much like, "No one gets me," or "Nobody gets how great I am." It's because it's always in a sense of it's nobody quite gets there. Excellent. So sort of an arrogance to them versus a person who really is like, "Now, this is, I did not do a good job on this pie. I know I could do better. Can I? Let me give it another shot." So there's almost like this sense of efficacy. The word that means like, "I'm gonna give it, I'm gonna give it a try. I recognize what I did wrong." They often won't take ownership. The covert narcissus will say, "I see what my part was in this. I see why it didn't go right." The covert narcissus will blame the world. That's a very clear, you know, that the world is to blame for why I did not succeed.
All right. What is our fourth?
Worth one is a fascinating one. I read an article about this and I was like, I was like, "You know, rarely do scientific articles get you as excited." And I'm running around the university saying, "You've got to." Yes. It's called the communal narcissist. Communal, communal. The communal narcissus is that person, for example, all over their social media feed is like, "Off to feed the homeless today," but they're like, really well-made up. Or like, "It's dog rescue Thursday," and they're always out there trying to save the world. They go to galas and they go to benefits and they write big checks, but they need a lot of recognition. They need a lot of like, "Can we've been in this after you? Can we name that after you?" And they walk around saying, "Look at all the good things I do." Like they'll have a website with them holding like children in impoverished regions of the world, but like they're always really well put together. And they talk about it a lot. Like, "Look at my greatness. I'm all about giving back." And that's your communal narcissist. Because what you will see is a tremendous lack of empathy for the so-called people they're trying to help. And in essence, sometimes even a grandiosity like, "I'm above these things. I'm rescuing, helping. Give me oh so much recognition." And they seek a lot of validation for all their good works.
I, I know people watching right now are going, "I know that person." "I know that person." And if you're not, maybe you are that person. Like, "Yeah, I know that person." Glover. That. I was given some really great advice by somebody out here in Los Angeles, and he said, and it was to a group of people, he said, "You need to go volunteer. You need to go do something for somebody and not tell anybody that you did it." That's it. Just do it because it's the right thing to do.
Well, I often say, "Do good quietly." Yeah. Yeah. Now, did you mention an earlier off-camera or something about stealth narcissists?
The stealth narcissist is almost more of that covert narcissist. Like you don't, and this is where people get confused by it because they'll say, "I kind of feel bad for this girl or guy, so I'm sticking it out. I just don't think that much confidence. I kind of, but oh my god, every day, whoa, meat." So that's the interchangeable. They thing. The covert narcissist will do in a relationship, for example, is like, "Yeah, it must be nice she got that promotion. Like, I'm happy for you, but I've been working at this for years. It must be a lot easier to get ahead in your job." Wow.
Really fascinating. Okay. Now, in our other video, when we were talking about how to spot the signs of a narcissist, yeah, you really used the pronouns "he," "has," "him" a lot. Okay. Is, are men more likely to be narcissists than women?
They are. Statistics have always been very clear on that. It's much more prevalent in men. If I were to take all the narcissists in the world, my guess would be 80/20. That's changing. That's changing. Sad to say, this is one of those times women are gonna break this glass ceiling. They're catching up. Narcissists, but yeah, it's definitely more men. And part of that is socialization. Men, even as boys, are not taught to talk about their emotions as much, to not be as tuned into that empathy, compassion, vulnerability. These things are not valued in boys, and they're not valued in men. And those are often the core of character. And so we tell boys, "Ignore those feelings. Toughen up." And so that tough and openness can turn into things like a lack of empathy. And so men are also very measured on their achievements, being a provider, of making lots of money, and having a big title, having a big house. And so those kinds of drives, which are definitely pushed more for men, more valued in men, those are again, are very superficial drives. And so as a result, they're going to be more manifested in men, which again, can make that greater vulnerability to being more narcissistic. We just tolerate it more. If a woman behaves in a narcissistic way, she's often checked early in the game. Whereas if a boy or a man behaves that way, he's not called out.
Would you even say maybe they're applauded?
Not only they applauded. They're CEOs. They're world leaders. They are our celebrities. They are our athletes. They are our music stars. You better believe it. In fact, if I wrote a book on narcissism, it becomes a how-to guide for how to achieve in the new world order. That is a huge, huge statement.
Yeah, and it's true. And it's true. It's true. Yeah. If you wrote, if you wrote a book about narcissism, it would be the how-to guide on how to succeed in the new world order. Yes. In business. And in wealth accumulation. Yes. In your interpersonal life. Absolutely not.
Yeah. I want to talk very quickly about the mental health implications of leaning into that narcissism for success. What does that do to somebody's internal mental health?
I don't think you can fake narcissism. I think you can get for a minute. I often talked about in effect in my second book, I did talk about this concept of acquired narcissism or acquired entitlement. By that, I meant if you're incredibly wealthy, you're very used to the world running on your schedule. You have a team of assistants, people picking you up in cars, you don't wait in lines. The world really works smoothly for you, if you will. What can happen is then when they go back to normal life, like they're with their friends or people from their past, they may have that very kind of like quick, entitled, "Do this, do that." And then someone will say, "Slow down, sister. I am not your assistant." And they'll often be like, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry." And they'll be genuinely passionate at that. So I do think that what they, they're not narcissistic per se, they're just sort of used to running through the world in that way. But if they said, "Oh no, you will do what I said. I am that important," then they're probably narcissists. Data. So that idea of faking narcissism to get ahead, I don't think most of us can do it. I can be even, I'll even give you a personal example. I remember way when I finished college, I tried to get into a job in the financial services sector at Wall Street kind of a company. I bombed. Not forget the first date, the first hour. I'm like, "Oh, all you guys want to do is make money." They're like, "Yeah." I'm like, "No, no, that doesn't. What about their feelings?" They're like, "Well, I'll talk about that here." So literally, that I got the job. It was 9:00, 9:05 AM. I realized I made a mistake. By noon, I realized like they were like, "We're just gonna keep you around doing some clerical work." And I started using their computers to apply for a job in psychology. I mean, I could, I could not sell water in the desert. I'm like, "Let me give you my water. You're thirsty, honey." Like, that's me. Which is why I'm me and not a, you know, CEO. Yeah. Would be. I don't have what it takes. Most of us don't.
Well, you did find exactly what you were supposed to do. What I do, it doesn't, you again, it doesn't pay well. I, you know, I mean, we, you don't, you choose your place in the world. But unfortunately, we do live in a very materialistic and consumerist society. And as long as that's the case, narcissism is going to win because it's about putting yourself first and not really caring as much about others. Yeah. And so that, those are the people who are always going to get to the head of the line. And so can some people turn it on and off? Probably not. Like your narcissistic, it sort of bleeds into other areas of your life. And part, and people say, "Well, how do they even have friends?" Some people cut them a lot of slack. I think that the great narcissists getting get away with murder. Catchphrases, "That's just how he is." And that's why they get away with a lot. Not to mention that they can sometimes be very generous when it's going to get them what they need. So they may buy everyone big dinners and take everyone on big vacations. So it creates this illusion that there's lots of people around them. I'm not so sure those people will be around just on the basis of how they treat them. It's all the stuff they're making possible for them. It's like narcissists often have big beach houses. They're there for the waves, not for his personality. Hmm.
Well, well said. Excellent. Always fascinating talk to you. Thank you so much. Cue for more information on all things mental health, make sure you go to med circle dot com. There you can get a digest of all of the relevant mental health news sent directly to you exactly when you need it. Are you dating one of those types of narcissists? Let us know in the comments section below. Thanks again for watching. My name is Kyle Kittleson, and this is Med Circle. [Music]