Ep 10 - Modeling Then vs. Now: Chico Lachowski on the Digital Shift

Welcome to the International Souls podcast. Here, we have valuable conversations with leading experts in their field. I'm your host, Eric, and each week, I sit down with people who dare to dream bigger, act braver, and build lives that inspire. You'll hear real stories, lessons learned, and expert insight from across industries and cultures, each one driven by purpose. This show is about leaving the good for the great. Taking a leap of faith. Here we go.

[Music]

Okay, okay, okay, guys. Welcome to the International Souls Podcast. Today on the show, we have the honor of welcoming a longtime friend, a father, a husband, a true global fashion icon, Francesco Lachowski, aka Chico. A Brazilian-born, internationally celebrated supermodel who has graced runways for Dior, Gucci, Versace, Balmain, Louis Vuitton, and fronted campaigns for Dolce & Gabbana, Hugo Boss, Roberto Cavalli, Givenchy, and much more.

With over 3.5 million followers on Instagram, more than 1.2 million fans on TikTok, and a growing YouTube presence, Francisco has evolved beyond the runway to becoming a powerful influencer and entrepreneur, recognized by models.com as Male Model of the Year in 2016 and one of the elite money guys for his sustained success in a fiercely competitive industry. But beyond the glitz and glamour, Chico is a devoted husband to Canadian model and friend Jess, and a proud father of two beautiful boys. His journey is defined by bold risk, unwavering commitment, and the art of mastering both a demanding global career and a fulfilling family life.

This episode, guys, we will reflect around the theme of leaving the good for the great, digging into his rise from a young model in Brazil to an international brand, his insight on authenticity in social media, and what's next on his incredible journey. Guys, I'm so happy and excited to have my friend Chico. Chico, let's do this. How are you today, brother?

Hey, Eric. I'm good. Well, thanks for having me first of all. When you, you know, I heard you're embarking in this, uh, challenging also career as a podcaster, because I don't know, I, I, you didn't know, but I actually have a podcast too, and it is a little challenging. You know, it's, it's something that you really have to keep consistency a lot more than other things to make it work. And I realized that because I did a few episodes and I stopped. When it, and I missed it, though. I want to do it again. That's why when you invited me, I was like, "Oh, that's my chance to get back on the train and actually like do a podcast and feel how it is and and go back to with mine." But yeah, thanks for having me and thanks for the praise words. You forgot, um, sexy guy. Sexy guy, too. I guess model. Yeah, models.com have me as the sexiest guys too, but I don't really agree with that.

That's all good. I'm, I'm sure your wife Jessian probably agrees with that one.

I hope so. She's married with me for a long time.

I'm glad that you're, you're excited to be on this podcast because if so, you have your podcast called Yo Chico Podcast, right?

Yes. So, you're normally the one who interviews people. So, now it's going to be, you know, I'm, I'm sure you've done a lot of interviews throughout your life, but yeah, this is going to be nice, a fresh take with all that you've accomplished today. And just, just before we get started, are you, where are you based at the moment? Where is your home?

I, I mean, I'm everywhere. Um, mainly, mainly right now, I'm spending a little more time in Brazil in Florianópolis. It's not where I'm from, from Curitiba. It's a little bit up north from here. But we found a very good place to be in, like, the meantime, me and the family. Like, it's, it's a beautiful island. It's amazing, you know. You, you get to do a lot of things that you don't do in other places in the world. You know, get to go to the beach every day. You get, the kids have a beautiful life. They have good, uh, schools. Um, good things to do. Milo wants to be a tennis player here. They have great tennis places to go, you know. So, it's a good place to be based, but we still have a lot of our roots in New York City. That's, you know, where we spend 10 years of our life. and, uh, most likely going to spend a few more because it is, you know, we, we are there and so we, we spending kind of like between here and there, like half of the year there, half of the year here. It's, you know, we go like this.

Okay, so, okay, so you're in Brazil on an island because I, I mean, I've been following you for a while and sometimes we like, you know, we, we send each other DMs and connect. It seems like you're always traveling. So, you're, you're actually leaving from the island and then what, going to the Brazil?

I mean, Brazil, it's a, it's, it's an island, but it's connected to a bridge, though. Okay. So, there's a bridge and then you go from there. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it is an island, but it's in the country. It's in, like, it's not far away from the country. But you fly out. So, because Brazil is kind of far from the main. Yeah. I live, I live, my my house is right next to the airport. So, I'm like 9 minutes from the airport. I hop in the plane, I go anywhere I want.

Okay. Okay, man. Incredible. I feel like as as someone being based, like I think it's one of the goals, like as a fashion model and and a brand ambassador, influencer, entrepreneur, like to be based in a place where, because living in New York is so intense. I mean, you've been there for a long time and especially with your kids, to be able to be based in your hometown. I know it's not like your home hometown, but in your home turf Brazil and clients flying you out to all these places and booking. It's, uh, good for it's challenging, you know. You definitely don't have clients flying you out all the time. You know, you do have to get a little bit of like, uh, money out of your pocket so you make it work. You know, it's a, it's a commitment. It's a, it's a little more, it's a commitment for the family, for the kids, so they can have like a life where they can be, we can be, we can feel good, you know, we can know that they're having the best childhood ever. And we're committing to like, yeah, we're going to spend a little bit more time in the plane. We might have to spend a little bit of money to get ourselves to places where the, the work, it's more, you know, based, like Europe or anywhere else. Uh, I mean, we used, we used to do that in New York City regardless because a lot of the work is in Europe. A lot of the work is around the city. It's never really in the city. There's only a few works that are in New York. So, I, I always lived in the plane, so I don't mind being based in a beautiful place, you know, where the kids can really like grow and spend a little bit more time in the plane. But like I said, it's, uh, it's not really where, like, we, we pretty much living in the suitcase. We all, we spend almost more time in New York City than here, like lately. We, I don't know. We have to see. But it's a, it's, it's like a modeling life, you know? You, you never know where you're living. Like me and Jess, we always travel. Like even when we lived in New York City, we couldn't spend two years more, like more than two years in one place. We would like spend two years in an apartment and move and spend a year in another apartment and move. Look, we're always have like having to move around. So now, like, we're still trying to find, okay, where are we going to stick our roots and stay? It, it could be Brazil. We could go back, you know, and spend more time in in New York or maybe in a different city. I don't know. We, we'll see. Only times, only time will tell.

So what you just said, I love that because moving around like that, I mean, I've, I've moved around so much from Aling as well, and it can be exhausting, but at the same time, there's a, there's a trail behind that. There's an excitement. You're always changing environment. You're growing a lot through those different environments and and you're making new friends, new network, new connections. I thought because when I, when I'm speaking with you before, I thought like you were happy and you didn't be based in Brazil and that that's like your new life, especially with kids and school. So what's so important for you in moving like that? Have you always been like that or it's just part of you like you're always seeking that, okay, I've, I've done it, next?

Yeah, I don't know. I guess it's just our nature, you know. We like, we like to move around. Like when things start getting a little bit too boring or like not so much excitement, we like to put a little bit more excitement in our in our lives. I guess we, we like the routine, but we also like the, the, you know, going after things like that. Like actually now my life, it's a lot of that happening, you know, like, uh, especially with the modeling industry changing a lot lately because of social media and the influence of of people outside of modeling going in fashion. Like it, it's always changing. So, it's, it's been a few years that I'm that I had to adapt to the new style of like working as a model in the fashion industry. Now, I'm feel like I'm 100% adapt to it, but I'm still, you know, it's always a learning process. It's always something that you can never be too comfortable. There was a time in my career that I was way too comfortable, you know, sitting in my couch and just waiting for jobs. And that happened, you know, it was fine. But always when I felt I was a little too comfortable, I would always like, okay, we got to move. We got to go somewhere. We'll go to Paris. We'll spend a year in Paris. We'll go like, we always kind of move around. So that moment where you feel like, oh, I got it. You know, I already put my name all the way up there. I already have my clients. You know, I already making good money, so I don't need to really to move. But then that actually makes you like, you don't realize that it makes you go back to where you started. You know, the moment you feel comfortable, you're like, you, you don't realize, but things start slowing down little by little and then next thing you know, like nobody really wants to work with you anymore. It's, it's a lot of friends of mine in the modeling industry. I've saw that happening and I always had this awareness in my head like, I cannot let this happen with me because it's not only me, it's me, the kids, Jess, like we, I have a family, so I cannot let, you know, the ball drop. And I, I've seen that happening with other guys that they had a great career. They worked for all the brands, even more than I did. They were like, like rolling high, you know, just working as we go, not really chasing anything. I think guys, I, I've seen it way too many times guys getting too comfortable with, you know, having a good name and having clients. Like there's a thing in New York City that's the rotation where you get like clients like Macy's or Bloomingdale's, uh, J. Crew, or things like clients like that that always are shooting, they always demanding your presence in studio. And when you have clients like that and you shoot like two times, three times a month and you're making good money every month and for like a good like two, three, four years. This makes you very comfortable thinking that that's never going to stop. But there's a moment where it stops. There's a moment where they're like, "Hey, you know, we used it for three, four years, you know, we want to use somebody else." So that when that moment comes, all those guys that they had that huge name, that huge star, they realize they don't have it anymore because they spend like the rest of their six years in New York City thinking that they're, you know, having a good, a good work, but next thing you know, they, that time that they were, you know, in New York City making good money, they let their image go down. So now nobody wants to work with them anymore. So it's like a balance where you really have to make sure your name, it's never going down. You always have to kind of chase it. You always have to want it, or you either you either go for it, you know, try to sustain that for, you know, a long period of time, or you do your thing, you make your money, you leave, and you do something else. So I don't know, this, I guess, a choice. For some people maybe they, you know, get carried away and they don't realize that their career is going down the drain and, you know, so it's something that I always made sure that I want to keep my career relevant and good as long as possible. So moving around, it's a key part of it. It's because you have to be able to be seen and work with different people and always trying to chase the next client. You can never stay comfortable. You understand?

Is that a mindset that you've that you apply in different areas of your life, or like with your health, with your wellness, with your family, or your businesses, or you, you apply this mostly with modeling, getting like always being on your on your edge, despite the success you can have?

Yeah, I guess, I guess it's, it's something that you can bring everywhere in life, you know. Mainly, I do it in my, in my work, in my career, in my job. I wish I had that same thing for like business, you know, for, for example, like a podcast that I start and I don't continue, or for like, for example, to tomorrow, our brand that me and Jess started, like we had a good run, but then we kind of like let it die, you know. Things can, things like that. I wish I had a little more, you know, of that thing that I just said for my career. But I guess you can, you only focus 100% in one thing. I mean, at least that's my case. I try to focus on other things, but I realize that if I put my energy 100% on something, it usually works. Yeah. Than putting like little by like little things and many other things. So, I put 100% my energy as being a father, as being a family man, making sure I can provide, you know, for my family. And that relates to my job and my work as me being 100% focused on like how I'm going to do that. And and that, you know, kind of like goes like that, you know, it just translates one to the other. So, there's many things that maybe if I put a little bit more energy, could work and it could replace what I do already. But I don't know, maybe one day I would, you know, get off my my couch and and do it.

It doesn't seem like you're a couch potato, by the way. But, um, so you're, you're 34, 33 right now. What's your age, Chico?

Um, I'm 34.

Okay. So, you're 34. You started to model at 17, right?

17 years old. Yes.

So, okay. So, more than half of your, Oh, I mean, not more, but half of your life. This is what you've known to be a model and to be in front of the camera. Matt, like, just think about that. This is inc. It's just crazy. Half of your life. It, it's weird because I haven't thought about that and now you just made me think about that. It's a, yeah, it's like literally half of your life. So, let's unpack that. I'm, I'm, the beginning of those stories for me is always fascinating, especially, I mean, especially as a, as a model. Everyone has different stories. It's not like you go to school and then you graduate and then you become something. It's just everyone has a unique story. So, you got scouted, you got discovered at 17, uh, a young man in Brazil, and just tell us about that. How did it happen? Was it something you were seeking to become a model, or it happened with synchronicity, a bit of luck? How did it happen?

Uh, it's weird because I never thought about being a model, actually. I had a friend, I still, I mean, it's one of my best friends to today. Uh, he was doing a little bit of modeling on the side, and he, I always saw him doing it. I was like, you know, that's kind of weird, you know, I don't want to do it. But then, uh, one day, I have a cousin, Natalia Canali, that she was, um, graduating on her, uh, design, fashion design school. Okay. And at the graduation, they had like a whole runway show to show all the pieces from the grads, you know, because since they're, you know, graduating in a runway in a fashion design school, they all made like different clothing, and then they need models to actually show those clothing. So, they hired four models, a bunch of models from Ford Models in my city in Curitiba. But there was a few spots missing because there's not many models in Curitiba that could do that. So, they needed more people and they say, "Hey, if you guys had people, you know, in your family or related that want to do it, you know, just go for it." And then she had the bright idea to come home, my to my place and be like, "Hey, you, you're skinny. You kind of look like a model. You're tall. You know, we don't want to do it." And I'm like, "What are you talking about? Like, I don't look like, I don't want to do that." And like, she was like, "Oh, they're gonna pay $100." She was like, "Okay, I'll do it for $100." Yeah. I was like, I'm broke. I'm 17. I don't have any day. Like, my parents are not giving me money. Like, so I, I went to do it. And it was kind of weird because I, I didn't know what to expect when I arrived. And it was like the whole, like, a little like market, when runway in the middle, and then I went upstairs in the backstage. It was all those models like a frantic, you know, and start like doing makeup for the first time. And and I was like, I mean, that's cool, you know, like, it's kind of like high energy. So, I felt, I felt good. It wasn't something that I was feeling scared or nervous or anything like that. I just felt good, you know. I, that's actually nice. Put on the clothes, do the runway. Once I, I went in, obviously, it's not like a fashion show, but it is, you know, runway. People are looking at you, and I felt good. And then in the end of that, the guy from Ford Models came to me and be like, "Hey, you know, like, you're, do you model? Like, you, you have an agency?" I was like, "No, I don't have an agency. I'm just doing that for my cousin and to get $100." And he was like, "Oh, if you want, come over to the agency next week." And I went to the agency after that. And then, I mean, that, that's something that's a little annoying with the fashion industry, something that I always try to talk about it, where like, especially in small towns, like agencies, they don't really have a lot of market. So, the way they make money is that they take money from people they're trying to start. So, this is something that actually happened with me. Um, I don't, I didn't feel like I got exploited because I did, I did make my money back many times. But when I arrived there, he, they're like, "Hey, you know, you want to, you want to get in the agency? You have to do a, a course, you know, you have to do classes and you need pictures, so you have to pay like a, $1,000 bucks to do it." And I'm like, "Bro, like $1,000 bucks? You crazy? I have to pay $1,000 bucks. I, like, I didn't even get in the agency already asking me money." And they say, "Yeah." And then I went to my mom. Obviously, I didn't have the money. I went to my mom and say, "Hey, do you want to invest on that?" And she, and she was like, "Are you going to pay me back?" I was like, "I guess, you know, can you do it?" And she was like, "Yeah, I can, you know, I can try to make it happen." to pay for my, my entry at the agency. And I did the, the classes that's completely useless. Never used that in my entire life. It's a bunch of [ __ ] It's just for them to sell you a package so they can make money on top of people that most of the people that they allow doing classes, they never even going to be models, and they know that. That's the big problem. But we can back, we can go back to that later on. Let's go back to my story. So, I did the classes, did the pictures, never used those pictures in my life. Terrible [ __ ] pictures. Horrible. But anyways, once I was done with that, I went to them and be like, "Okay, now can I sign the contract and be a model so I can pay back my mom the [ __ ] $1,000 that you just took from me?" They were like, "Yeah, sure. But there is a new, there's something else." I was like, "Oh, what it is now? How much more money you need from me now?" And they're like, "Oh, there's this contest called Supermodels Brazil. Uh, if you want to participate, you can get in." I was like, "How much is for that? Do I have to pay for that?" They're like, "No, no, this is free." I was like, "Okay, if it's free, why are you even asking me? Just sign me up. You know, I want to work." And they're like, "Okay, they signed me up." I went to the first selective or whatever. And then like the first part of it in the, the, the, in the city, I passed it. And then I went to the state, um, uh, one that was me and a few other models like around the state, and then they chose me to win. And then I went to the, the national selective. So, this, the where like when I arrived in São Paulo, there was like buses from everywhere in the country. There was like thousands of people outside of Ford Models. It was a huge mess. But because we've been selected before in the state selection, they pass us to the, the, the front of the line. So, we did the casting first. And for some reason, they look at me and they say, "Hey, you know, we liked you. You're in the final." So, I was in the final all of the sudden. So, that period of time was very short. There was like maybe a two weeks and a half period of time where I signed an agency and I was in the final of a contest. And I was like, "Oh, what's gonna happen?" I was like, "Okay, so next month you're gonna come to to São Paulo. You're gonna stay one week here and we're gonna give you classes, you know, pictures. We're gonna really like teach you how to model and then in the end of this week, you're gonna go live on MTV for like the huge final, like with like that was like a rock band at the time that was super famous. There was like a bunch of famous people attending. I was like, "Oh my god, what's happening?" Like, I went from like a broke 17-year-old kid, you know, not sure what to do. By the way, I was trying to pass in industrial design at the time, like to go on university. Um, and then all of the sudden, like not even a month, I'm already here in the final of some crazy modeling contest, something that I didn't even know that existed. So, I went to the final, I did the whole thing in the week. I was, um, me and another guy from my state and a few other people. They had like their, their favorite there. The guy was kind of like, you know, like, I'm for sure I'm going to win and everything. And I was like, I mean, I'm just here for the ride. I guess if I, I guess after that, I can just sign with Ford Models Brazil, the actual in São Paulo and move to São Paulo. My, my plan was that maybe I'll move to São Paulo, stay like a few months here, try to work as a model, and if it doesn't work, I go back to my city and study. That's it, you know. And but next thing I know, I won the contest. I won the whole thing. And I'm like, the [ __ ] is happening right now? Like, why am I, why is my life turning upside down? And and then I went outside. Actually, one funny thing, the reason why I won because I, I did a casting, international casting in that week of preparation for the final. And I did a casting for an agency in Paris and Milan. And the bookers were there. So, there was, uh, Frank from Ford Models at the time, now it's Premium Models, and Rosa from Why Not at the time. Now she's in a different agency in Milan. And when I got in, I didn't, I didn't speak English at all. I had no idea. So, they were, they told me like, they're going to ask you what's your name and where you from. Uh, no, how they gonna, no, they know your name obviously. They're going to ask how old are you and where you from. And then how old are you is your age and where you from is, you know, where you from. So, they were translating to me. I was like, okay. So, I'm just have to memorize the two answers. How old are you? Where are you from? I got in. So, the guy, Frank from from Paris, he came to me and, "Hey, so how old are you?" And I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] How old are you?" Like, I was like, Curitiba. And it was like, everybody start like laughing. I was like, "What did I do wrong?" He was like, "No, it's your age." Like, [ __ ] But I guess that gave them a little bit of a, they liked me. And then they chose me to win the contest. And then once they chose me, Frank, right after the final, that he came to me and, "Hey, you know, what are you doing in January?" I was like, "It's vacation in Brazil. I'm, you know, just like finishing studies, you know, going to university. I don't, I don't like, I have nothing to do." So, "Okay, so you're coming to Paris for fashion week." I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] Okay." So, that's like from the time where my cousin went to my house and say, "Hey, you want to be a model?" And to that moment where a guy just told me, "Come to Paris to do fashion week." That was like not even two months. Wow, man. And and then next thing I know, and less than three months since my cousin told me like, "Would you like to be a model in my graduation fashion show?" I was, I was walking for Gucci in Milan. So, it, it really went out of nowhere from zero to 100. That's literally the definition from zero to 100. And I was in Paris, you know, did casting at the time. Um, Chris Vanache was the, was the creative director of Dior, and he had a thing for Brazilians and Argentinians. So, he, his shows with only Brazilian Argentinian people, like no other nationality for some reason. So, good for me, cuz I got in the show automatically. But then for some reason, he didn't take me exclusive. He was at the time, back in the day, brands would pay more for you to be exclusive, but nowadays they don't really give a [ __ ] anymore. Um, then I, that would actually gave me the, the, the, the choice to and the chance to go to Milan. And that's where I start working for Gucci also. And my first month modeling, and and that was that. And then after a month of that, they chose me to do the campaign for Dior with Karl Lagerfeld. So, in February, I was shooting with Karl Lagerfeld for Dior campaign. And that, that's when I did that, I was like, "Okay, so I guess this is my focus right now. That's my career. This is my job. That's what I'm going to do." And, you know, forget, I cancel all my plans in Brazil. I focus on like studying the language that everybody was speaking with me. I thought I would have to speak French, but everybody was just speaking English with me. So, I guess I'm just going to learn English. So, I was able to learn English quickly and really focus on, you know, turning myself into what I am today.

Whoa. Okay. This is a, this is a very unique story. So, your first All right. If you just unpack this. So, your first modeling booking was a runway for Dior in Paris, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was a booking, but the first, first official one was in Milan, cuz Milan is first. So, it was, I booked two, two shows in my first season in Milan. It was Gianfranco Ferré, if I'm not sure, and then Gucci. And then I flew to Paris and I only did Dior.

Wow. So, it was your first time flying out of Brazil at the same time, or you've traveled?

No, actually, first time flying out of Brazil internationally. I did went, I did took flights before to the northeast of Brazil. Yeah. Uh, that was the se, my second time in an airplane, if I can remember. And that was my second time outside of the country. I did went to Paraguay, but that doesn't really count, I guess, cuz Paraguay, it's the border of the city I used to live as a kid. So, it's like going to the, it's like going from US to Canada. You can't really count that. But it was my first time overseas.

Wow. So, how was your, do you remember like your mindset and your, just your emotions back then? Because it seems like your family was supporting you, cuz your mom upfronted that $1,000, and it's probably, it's probably one of the best financial investments she's made because I'm sure that she, you paid her back many times, like you said. But how, how is it as, because I want to, I want to specifically talk about this, because let's say nowadays, someone who is 17-year-old, 18-year-old, a little lost, don't know what to do, and is seeing this big world now, but is kind of stuck at home and doesn't have that like, ah, just what's out there, what's out there? How did you, just mindset and emotionally, because it's big from Brazil to Europe, it's big, I mean, it's a whole new world. Do you remember? Were you afraid? Was it like challenging? Was it exciting? Did you, did you have any, uh, were you missing your family? Like, how was it hard for you to travel? And back then, you probably didn't have like Google Maps and like, it wasn't as easy as today to travel. You had to write down everything and and figure it out in a new language. So, you're, there's so many challenges. You're so young. You're jumping right into this big fashion world. How was that like emotionally for you?

Oh man, it's, uh, I don't know. Like, the moment I actually remember going through those phases of being accepted on the final of, of, uh, that, the Supermodels Brazil that I won. Yeah. I remember like, kind of like having a feeling that my life was kind of changing from being just a kid in Curitiba, studying, going to school, and like, kind of like searching for what, what I'm going to do in my life, right? Like, I had all, I have this anxiety, like, kind of like excited, like, like, what, what I'm really going to do, you know? Like, I like drawing, so I guess I'm going to do industrial design. But then that thing just came to me, and I was like, not really giving much attention. And then when it really start coming to me a lot stronger, and I'm like, okay, so maybe that's my calling, you know, like, maybe that's my destiny, so I should focus. And the moment I, I really focus, I remember having a conversation with my dad in the car after going through like a selection in my city. He was like, and and they chose me to go to São Paulo and to to go to the final and everything. He was like, "Oh, like, how do you feel? Like, uh, that, that moment where, you know, my dad was like, is that, is that something that you want to do? Is that something that you really want to focus?" You know, he actually, like, asked me. I remember that till today. And I, I told him like, "I mean, what do I have to lose, you know? Like, like, why, why would I not try that, you know? Like, I know it's weird, especially back in the day, you know, like to, like the whole modeling, male model industry, you know, and like, you know, letting your son, 17-year-old, getting into a, in a, in an industry that you have no idea. You just, you, you hear a lot of bad things about, especially in Brazil, it's not really a, it's it is a taboo. It's still, um, it's changing, but it's still kind of like, you know, not taken as a real profession." Um, so I remember like having this conversation, be like, "No, like, you know, that's what I'm going to do, you know, this is my, this is my chance, you know." And and then once I was preparing, because there was a moment of preparation from winning the contest and going to Paris, I had to go back to my town, you know, kind of like chill and, you know, put this all in my head. I remember like being very famous, uh, at the time on Orkut. Orkut, it's like it was kind of like Facebook at the time, and a lot of people trying to add me and things and like that first kind of like thing of like being famous because I just won something on live television, and I kind of like ignored that a little and focus on the on the trip and focus on my task. And I was like, "Okay, I'm going to Paris. You know, I don't know the language. I have to learn French or either English or French." So, I start like buying some books, you know, to try to familiarize myself with the with the culture, you know. I start talking with the agency. So, I rely heavily on having the agency next to me. So, always, I never, I was never alone. I always rely heavily on on being with somebody that's guiding me. So, uh, I still have my mother agent that's Manuela. Uh, at the time, she was a, um, an international agency at Ford. Now she has her own mother agency where, uh, she helped me a lot, you know, explaining me a little bit of like what I'm gonna, what what I should expect, what I, you know, what I should do. And I did went with another guy also, Max M at the time. He just had done the, the Dior campaign exclusive, you know, he was like, kind of like, you know, the guy to watch. So, I went with him and he helped me. I mean, he did help me a lot, but at the same time, he was a little bit of a, a jerk sometimes with me, you know, like making jokes because he knew I didn't know the language. So, he would like make jokes, you know, like to to people saying that I said something that I didn't said, you know, because I was starting to understand a little and I start to pick up a lot of the things that he was doing with me that wasn't cool. But at the same time, you know, some, you know, it is what it is. He's my friend. He still my friend. He, he always be my friend, but I do call him on his [ __ ] a lot. Um, but I did have a little bit of help. And in my, in my head, I put like, okay, I'm going to do this, you know, I'm giving myself one month to figure it out. What's that? Because I had no idea. I had no idea what I was going to expect. So, I gave myself one month to really figure it out, like what I'm going to do and really heavily rely on people telling me what to do. So, I wasn't trying to invent a new thing. I was just like, "Okay, show me the way and I'm going to do exactly what you tell me." And that's what happened. So, that's it. I, I put this mindset of like learning things that I had to learn, you know, listening a lot to people like, and and that went on to, you know, what I am today as a young, so as a young, you know, even teenager.

How? Because I started to model at 17 as well. And it's funny because my first runway was also a runway from a college art college. My sister was in that college studying design, and they needed models to do to present their collection of the the college kids. So, I went through that very, very similar process at the beginning. But I remember starting very young as well. And it, I'm curious to know your perspective on this. How did it shape you at a young age to be now in this global stage? And I'm not sure when you really started to make some money, but even doing like a $1,000 to $2,000 in one day at 18, 17, 19, coming from Brazil, it's still a lot of money, you know, so or probably like probably more. How did that shape you? Because it can build confidence at an early age, but also feed the ego and starting to like, oh, you're young, you're making money, you're traveling. I'm curious to know, like, did it shape you in a good way at the beginning, or was it or was it channeled differently, and it, it, it kind of, you know, brought your head a little bigger than it should have been?

Um, I mean, you know how it is. Modeling in the beginning, it's not easy. You have some people, like, for example, Max, this guy that I was talking about, he had it very easy, somehow, like too easy, where in his first month, like, you think I was lucky? Hear this out. Like, in his first month, he signed a contract, a year contract with Dior, so he didn't have to do anything else. So, he stayed contract, yeah. So, he stayed one year exclusive. And the other year, he signed another exclusivity for Trussardi. So, he was two years exclusive, not really being able because he, he couldn't work for other brands, you know, he could only work for those brands that he was exclusive. So, in his first two years, he was chilling, making like $250k, you know, per year, not having to do [ __ ]. That's, this is a lucky start. But I, that wasn't my start at all. As as much as I was lucky with like being able to get good, you know, runway shows and like changing my life very quickly, I had to really grind a lot. So, I, the moment I arrived in, in, um, in France, uh, all the runway shows, you know, it doesn't pay a lot. So, that doesn't really pay the bills. Uh, I made, I maybe in the first, my first fashion week, I made like what, like €1,500? That paid for like the expenses. Uh, I was in like maybe negative a lot of the time in the beginning until I, I did a, I did a campaign for Dior that I made a little bit of money. It wasn't like crazy. And then I invested on a few things in Brazil, you know, I put the money aside in some, some things. I bought a car, maybe stupid. Um, but after that, I went back to the grind. So, once I realized, okay, I'm doing this. I did the campaign, I went back to Paris and I did the, I did their, um, fitting. So, I, I worked for Dior as the fitting guy for three months. That was paying okay, you know, like I was getting like what, like €300 a day or 300 an hour or something like that. Uh, something like, I, I always put in perspective that I was making a lot more money as being a model than if I any other job. But it's not the type of money that you're like, "Okay, I'm set for life." Because you can get very, uh, you can get very kind of like comfortable with making a good money in a short amount of time, but next thing you know, you're not really making money for the next two, three months, and then you're you're done. So, you have to always make sure you can't really go crazy and spend at all. So, it's always like my life always being like making a good little money here, you know, not really making much money, and then making a little bit of money, and then, you know, it's always like this balance where, you know, in the beginning of my career, at least for the first year of my career, it's always been like that grind of like never really having, oh my god, this guy is probably rich, but like, no, it's like, no.

How about that? H. So, let's say I'm your friend and like your beginning of your career, and I've known you for a long time. Okay. And I'm, I'm, I'm more interested like in your personality, you like your identity, your personality. Did it, did this early success, and I like, I'm not speaking necessarily all financially, but still being in Paris and Milan, being in this, the big exclusive brands in the world, Dior, Gucci, did that shape your personality? Did that make you like a, a little cocky, a bit confident, and you know, like being in that world, or you stayed grounded, and all of your friends could see that, no, that's Chico, I know exactly who that is. He's not trying to pretend, because at at a young age, being placed in that spotlight can definitely either mess you up or play with your head, like especially with your ego and your confidence. So, did that had a role and impact on you, or or you just kept your identity as it is?

No, I mean, it's, it's something that I always preached, you know, it's because I say it a lot of times, and I said it in from the be, very beginning of my career, when I, for some reason, you know, became famous or like more known than other models, even like models like David Gandy or guys that are big, you know, at the time. I was like having people waiting for me outside of shows and things like that when I was like 18, 17. And those guys, like nobody really knew who they were, like. So, I was at, since that time that it was always being very weird, and I always said in the very interview that I did, where like, I always be yourself, because everybody's like, "What's the key? Why, what's why this happened with you?" It's like, I, I feel like it's because I'm being myself. It's because I'm not trying to be somebody else. I'm not trying to change. I'm not trying to to mirror myself in a different person. I'm just being me. And yes, I mean, my life as a model and everything that I that I did, everything that I experienced, and all those travels and different connections with people when, um, you know, learning different cultures and really like understanding the world and my life and my business, and this shaped me who I am right now. It really shaped, you know, like you can't just like say that I'm the same guy as the kid from Curitiba as 17-year-old. But I'm not at all. Like, it really shaped my personality. But I always stayed true to myself. I was never that guy that, oh my god, like I have people that love me, you know, they wait me outside of the the the show, and and this is me now. I'm famous. Like, I never been this guy so much that, at least back in the day. Now, I don't know anymore, like around fashion week, like the kids nowadays, you know. I don't know how it

Is, but it always would come around one or the other guys that try to be more than others. You know, they try to try to put themselves as more important or like being the cool guy. And for some reason, back in the day at least, like that didn't really click with everybody. It was always something that people liked, "Let's just stay away from this person."

Like because modeling, at least at the time that I used to do the shows, uh, like the circuit, because it is a circuit, you go like twice a year to the same place, you know, you have to do that for at least five, six years, or no, five years, you know, to to really experience and then this actually creates a deep connection with everybody that does that, you know. It's kind of like a family. So you see that there's no backstabbing, you know. People like, the guys always cheer for you. If you book something, they're going to cheer for you. If they book something, you're going to cheer for them. And all the time when somebody else would come to this circle and try to be more, it's that always being pushed, you know, maybe at least at my time. I don't know how it is now 'cause I'm not in the circuit anymore.

Uh, I heard that there was a moment where a lot of, like, it it became almost like the women's, you know, that you know, there's a lot of competition. Uh, because I guess the desire of being a model nowadays is a lot more than back in the day. I felt like every model that I met that was successful never tried to be a model. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like every model that I met that that they had great careers, they have big names, they never tried that hard. They always were themselves. You know, there's, for example, there's Simon Nessman that it's one of the biggest models in the world and still is. And he always being that guy, quiet in his corner, reading a book, trying to learn more about nature. You know, when he was making money, he was investing on his on his shack in the middle of Canada, you know, like sailing. And now he's sailing around the world, you know, surfing, you know, he's living his dream, but he's still working as a model. He's never went, he never tried to be somebody else. He always being true to himself. Same as Sean Pry. Same as, you know, like many guys. Marlon, you know, Marlon Teixeira, always being that, you know, very like lovely person, always smiling, surfing around the world, you know. It's, there's, there are all those examples of like guys that really thrive as models and because they always stay true to themselves, they never try to be somebody else. And I feel like I'm the same. And and that's, I guess maybe that's the secret, you know.

I don't know. I think it's great advice. I mean, to stay true to yourself and not always adjust and adapt to every person in the room and to try to please everyone. But I think it's great for you to be capable of learning that at a young age and to just stay true because, man, this, yeah, this industry, I think there's a lot of people pleasers and the ones who are trying too much to please everyone, they, they don't last, they just, they fade out. And this is a good way to to go into the next segue because speaking of speaking of the the the success but also so starting to have a fan base when you started modeling. Uh, you talked about what was the app, you said like the tour, like torture or something like that. Was that like the Facebook that you said that was starting to pop or Orkut? So it's like Facebook, but yeah, that that didn't really, it lasted for some years before Facebook really like like just ate it alive. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, because so when you started modeling, social media didn't really exist or was just barely started. So today, you're quite a heavy hitter in this space. And I'm very curious. So let's deep dive in. I mean, you are a Chico, so let's deep dive into into how it is nowadays, the challenges, but also the shift because you also mentioned at the beginning of this podcast how it's always evolving and shifting this this um this path and this career and this industry. So, you now have 3.5 million followers on Instagram, 1.2 million on TikTok, right? And about 75,000 on on YouTube. Is that the right numbers? Yeah. Yeah. YouTube could be better, but I I let it go a little bit. Okay. I mean, it's still quite a lot. We're almost like close to 5 million total through the platforms. Yeah.

So, when did social media become a part of your story? Um, how did it happen? It's weird. It's weird, man. And like so like that that's something that like finally maybe like since like a year I would say I really start like being like, okay, this is something I have to focus, you know, that's my next chapter. Social media, you mean social media. Okay. Uh, but it obviously started from the moment I start being a model and I never really understood uh when I was young. So I was when I was 17, obviously Instagram wasn't around, Facebook was kind of just there and there was other different ways to communicate with people online, but it was never like a thing because even that time like iPhone was kind of just launching. Uh, apps didn't really exist. Um, like you said, there was no Google Maps. There was just like, you know, maps, like real paper maps. And, you know, there was no form of like communication and community, you know, online other than maybe some Facebook groups and fan pages. And, um, when I started, for some reason, on my second season, the first season, people started noticing me online. And on my second season, I think that was like a few pages like that was Tumblr at the time. And for some reason, my pictures start like going to Tumblr and people start creating fan pages of me on Tumblr. And then people start creating fan pages of me on Facebook. And those fan pages were like up to 500,000 followers and stuff. People and then my a website popped up like FranciscoLachowski.com that I had no idea. And they used to like update every day of everything I was doing. And and I'm like, "What? What is happening? Like, why is this happening with me?" And I never understood. And then so much that on my second season as a model, I was already like having like people outside waiting for me, signing autographs. And I'm like, "Why? Why? Like, why are you doing that with me? Like, I'm not a singer. I'm not an actor. I'm not anything that I'm trying to be famous. I'm just a model." But people really loved me being a model and they really wanted, you know, they and I and I guess I had that thing from the very beginning. But it never really was was never really relevant because you could you could not really generate like you could not really translate that into making money. You know what I'm saying? Like there was never like a social media like like nowadays that you collab, you you go to places, you know, you get paid, you you do collaborations where like you post, you tag a brand. Like that didn't exist, you know. So there was no market for me being famous other than just me being like people liking me. So I always took that as being weird but being natural. And I always liked it and praised it and and thank I was always very thankful about it. But that was never really something that that changed my life. You know what I'm saying? Like like not trying to to say uh like anything bad about it. But at the time it was just something else that was happening in my life that it was cool, but I kind of like made it very natural and that's it. And and then Instagram started popping up and I remember me like creating an account on Instagram and then deleting the account because I didn't really, you know, had a use for it. And then next thing I know, uh, there was like a a news channel, I think in in Brazil for some reason, I don't know why, but they came up with like a interview, like the whole thing that was like a false. I never did an interview for them, but the interview was saying that I I came out of the closet. And I was like, "Wait a second, what's happening?" And I was like, "Wait, I had like, what's what is happening?" And then I I have a girlfriend. At the time was already with Jess. I was like, and then I tried to figure it out why is was this was happening with me. And I was like, you know what? Why don't they just become a public person, you know, if that if that's what it's really, you know, happening and that's what people really want. People really want to know what is happening. Like they created websites about me, fan pages about me, and all this stuff about me, Tumblrs, you know, and and I'm like, why don't I just create my own page and actually broadcast my life to people so they actually I can get this connection? And that's when I created an Instagram account and then I really started to show my life, you know, and you know, so things, especially like the whole like came out of the closet thing doesn't exist, doesn't happen anymore because if people want to know about me, they just go to my page and they see who I am. It's it and it's always been that for me. Social media always been since the beginning being a place where I don't mix work, you know, I just make it as as personal as possible, you know, showing my life, showing my family, showing, you know, like my travels, showing my experience around the world, you know, showing, you know, the backstage. And and that's that until until, you know, I in the beginning of fashion invading the fashion industry. Yeah, I was very against. And it's weird, like why would I be against if I was the guy with the most followers in the fashion industry? Like at the time nobody was even close to me. Like some guys had, some guys had Instagram that they had like 10,000 followers, you know, or like 5,000 followers. And I, without even trying, I had like 500,000 followers. And I'm like, like, why? And at the time, I remember, I think Lucky Blue Smith came up and he was heavily chasing, you know, getting followers. And he's American, so he gets the whole American media behind him. That's something that happens with American people, but like GQ and things like that. Anyways, um, he really started like chasing it because he had that same that same thing that I had of like people being outside of shows waiting for him. That same thing that I had, he had it too. He was the first guy that had it after me. And I saw that happening. I was like, "Oh, that's cool." You know, finally, you know, somebody else is having that attention. But then he capitalizing on it. Like he really went for it. So he was like doing meet and greets, you know, like he was really like chasing it, you know, making more people interested. Me like really creating a buzz around him. And then that generated on him becoming very, very famous online. And then he passed, he passes me at the number of followers. I remember. And when I saw he passed me, I was like, "Oh, okay, you know, I guess I guess it's up to something. But at the same time, what is he going to do about it, you know? Like there's nothing really to do about it." But then I see that all of this movement of him doing around social media, other guys start doing it. And then other guys start, you know, having that same thing. And then other people start doing it. And next thing you know, there was a whole industry around social media. So much that guys came up as models through social media. So like they like they turning themselves into models because they had a big platform. So like and when all those changes were happening at the time, I was completely against it. I was like, "No, this is like, why is this happening?" But and I was refusing to embrace. I was refusing to becoming this another guy. Even though I had like at the time, you know, going to a million followers, you know, like I had a huge platform. I could have done the same thing that they were doing, but I was staying true to myself and my craft that I thought that would never die. That was just being a model, you know? I don't I don't really have to do more if I'm, you know, I'm already like okay where I am with my profession, you know, like in my life. Was waking up, going to castings, booking a job, going to work, that's it. Going to fashion week, runways, going back home, like getting like, you know, options, you know, traveling to work. That was my life, you know, not trying to be in like too famous or a high-profile person, but just like enough so I can still work and do my job. And I was happy with that. And I hated that social media was coming and disturbing my life. You understand? I do. Because I was I was looking at that in this direction. I was looking at like like this, like in my eyes at the time. I was looking as as it was a disruption. I was looking at it was something that was destroying my work and I was fighting against it until I was like, "Why? Why am I doing this?" Yeah. Like, why am I so stubborn that I want to keep uh like this old ass dinosaur of industry that is fashion industry the same? Yeah. Why am I not trying to just like follow the the route, follow what is actually happening in front of my eyes? I just follow, I just I just adapt and I do the same thing these people doing so I can keep working as a model, you know? And and then it it was it wasn't some I would love to say that this was something that clicked and it just happened, but you know, it took me a a good time to adapt, you know, on like not only being the traditional model and actually like using social media to uh continue being a model, you know? And that's how I kind of like excuse myself to be like, okay, I'm going to use social media so I can, you know, continue like growing my career. So that's kind of like how I used it as an excuse like, oh, my excuse to start like working on social is because like, you know, that's how kind of like how you keep working as a model, like type of type of deal. But it's not really like it is a it is a completely different business. It is a completely different platform. It is something that being a a model and being a top model or whatever it helps, but it's a completely different beast. So I, I was learning, you know, with that. And and now it's inevitable. Now you can't really be like, you can be a model without having social media unless you're like Sean Pry, Simon, you know, like those guys that don't really want to do it. And I know they don't because I know them personally and they really don't want to. Like Marlon, they don't want to do it. You know, they are even more stubborn than I was on this case where like like why, you know, like they probably going to die without trying it. But even them, they're pushed to do it because even them, they there's a moment where a client's going to be like, "Hey, you have to post that. Hey, you have to do that. Hey, if you want to book this job, you have to be in this, you know, you have to post this and that, you know." Even they are pushed to do it. And I remember, um, um, Jon Kortajarena, he's an actor now, huge actor, you know, big celebrity in in Spain. But at the time, I remember he was like, uh, just like, you know, working as a model, like huge, you know, always being a big top model, working for Tom Ford exclusive, you know, all those huge campaigns. But he also didn't really had a lot of presence in social media. And at the time he was doing the switch or not the switch, but like going from modeling to acting. And he had a he had a lot of famous friends, like Madonna, you know, a lot of people with the high profile that he was friends with and always hanging out. But I never really understood why he didn't have that spark that I had or, you know, other guys had that people just follow him for whatever reason, even though he was like always with famous people, you know. But then he realized that he kind of needed to have the social game on his side, especially for acting. And then he started posting heavily and like showing his life and showing the backstage and showing all his famous friends. And and really like pushing. And then now he's huge, you know, and he understood that he that he did that switch. I mean, I'm just that's what I noticed, you know, that that wasn't something that I spoke with him. That's what I noticed. But I noticed him realizing and really doing that switch and like reaching different levels. Something that other guys they could do the same, but they choose not to. And something that I always fought against, but now I'm like embraced, you know? So now after years of like fighting social media, uh, I'm I understand that this is more of my work than my actually modeling career. Okay. Especially nowadays.

So this, so this is where you are now. So you're, you're would you say like it's a half and half energy? Like you're doing half of or or half of your leads and bookings or photo shoot campaigns, e-coms, all that? And it's a half and half because especially it's whether I like it or not, uh, working as a social media for me, it's heavily working as a model. So in the end of the day, even though I'm working as a social media guy, I'm still working as a model in the fashion industry. So that all the most of the things that I'm doing now, they are more towards social media. Like it's they actually I actually book more jobs towards social than actual just like ad campaigns type of deal. Interesting. Uh, more than ever, but they all towards who I am. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's your brand. Yeah. The brand. Yeah. Even even the things that I'm doing around tennis that I've been doing a lot of things around tennis. That's something that it it's a dream come true because I tried to be a tennis pro. You know, tennis was my whole life when I was a kid. Really? And and then I mean, it's it me working at like in in the tennis industry is not because I just like, oh, it's a hype. No, it's this is who I am. And I was just going back to the beginning of the podcast. I always stay true to myself and I always did things that I really like close to me in my heart. And tennis is is 100% one of those things. Uh, even even more than modeling, even more than my own uh my own career because it's it's the sport that I love. It's the thing that I tried to be before being a model. It didn't worked out because it is a very, very ruthless, very like hard, tough sport to get into, especially with money. Uh, but now being able to like literally chill with the pros and do content as with tennis and work with the biggest brands like Wilson, on Lacoste, like, you know, work with the main promotion of tennis, there's ATP, just because of who I am, you know, and and my career as a model and my platform. It's, it's a dream come true, you know? And that is only happening because I am chasing that social media side right now. I am I did switch my view on many things, you know, I, I, it's not anymore just being a model and going to work and that's it. Now I'm chasing what I want to do and social media gives me the power to do it. And I realized finally after a long time that this I was always in my hands. I just had to go and chase it and make it happen. But if I didn't move my ass from the couch, it would have happened. You know what I'm saying?

Do you have any, do you have like a manager or management that that now handles all your social media career or you're still the one who is? No, I, I, it's towards like there's a, there's a thing that happened like like many years of my life as a model. I had this huge platform and I always, I, I obviously, you know, I always were like, I don't want to be doing like the whole social media guy. I don't want to be the influencer, but but I still want to make money with that, you know? Yeah. Why would I say no to money with social media? For sure. So, I always try to chase people that could help me with that, but I never found it was hard. It's actually very hard to find people that are focused on digital back in the day. Uh, back in the day, I mean like three years ago. Um, and then it it was a very hard search and, you know, like leaving agencies, getting different agencies, like always trying to chase like who can help me with that, you know, so I can do it professionally, so I can do it because a lot of the bookings that I used to do back in the day was me just like booking, you know, just me doing it. So they were they were sending you a DM directly and you would just like, you know, and like kind of like me doing like. But that it's not this is not the way to do it, you know? And and I always being like a very pro having an agent, no matter what, for everything because you don't want to be the guy speaking with the client. You don't want to be the guy that's going to scream with the client. You don't want to be the guy that's going to be annoying with the client. You don't want to be the guy that's going to like actually like do the the whole, you know, how much I'm going to get paid, you know, with the client. Uh, you want to let somebody do that. You give them the 20% and, you know, done deal. And with one thing that I noticed that actually made the my whole idea change about social media is that in the social media industry, when you have an agent, they take 20%. But famously, everybody knows, many people don't know, only when they get into the modeling industry that in the modeling industry, you actually give 40%. Mhm. They say you only give 20%, but they always taking that plus 20 from the client. Mhm. But that plus 20, it wouldn't exist if they didn't ask. So that meaning in the eyes of the client, if the job is $14,000 that they're paying for the for you know, for whoever, you know, it's their booking, they're giving $14,000. They don't have the notion that 40% of that money stays with the agency. Mhm. And this is something that the modeling industry has been doing forever and they've been getting away with it and it's [ __ ] up to be honest. It's not cool because you should take just 20%. The rest should be with the with the with the model and that's it. That plus 20 is is the biggest scam in the modeling industry. And this is something that they don't have, they don't have in the in the social media industry. In the social media industry, they don't take the plus 20. They in the social media industry, sometimes depending who you work with, they don't even take from your commission. They they deal with the client, they say, "Hey, his his rate is that, and you have to pay my rate, you know, on the side." That's it. It's it's on the side thing. So there it's a lot better for agent, client, and model, social media person, uh, and platform than the modeling industry. So that actually something else that I was like, "Oh my god, I spent all those years giving all my money to agencies. It's crazy, you know." And then now I realize that like I prefer to do social media jobs because I actually get paid what I, you know, what I actually worked now, like 40% less. But I don't even know what I was talking about before that because it kind of get I got heated up with the situation.

Oh yeah, I mean, I I think it's nice to debunk like the behind the scenes of how it works with an agent and also influencer agency. I I asked you the question about management and you did answer it. So are you? I do actually now nowadays I'm happy because I have in Brazil. It's funny though, 'cause um, Brazil has always been a place where, 'cause now I'm here right now, right? So, it's always been a place where modeling for male models, especially, always been like dog [ __ ] not good. Like clients want to pay very low. Uh, jobs are not very consistent. Um, you can't really make money just like when you make in America or Europe. It's, it's terrible. Uh, and why would I be here, you know? And since I I started to focus in Brazil like to try to make money. Uh, I always for my entire career, I always been like, no, no, no, no clients in Brazil can pay me because I would do the rate, you know, exchange between Reais of Brazilian Real and dollars, you know, and then they would be like, they would no like see that how much I was getting paid in America and how much I would get would have to get paid in Brazil would translate to way too much money. They didn't have, they didn't care. So it's not that important. So when I when we made the move to spend more time in Brazil, I was chasing managements. I was like, "Okay, um, how can we do make this happen?" You know, I went to an agency. How can I make this happen where I can, you know, sustain myself living in Brazil working as a model? Well, working as a model is not going to happen because nobody's going to pay your rate. So, we have to lower your rate. Okay. So, let's lower the rate. Oh, like even though, you know, they prefer to to book four guys instead of you, you know. So I'm like, okay, great. So what I do now, you know, so let's focus on social media. So focus on social media. Nobody really knew where they're doing. So agencies too big, they have celebrities. Celebrities are easier to sell on social media. And, you know, so it's always been kind of like a push to one person, push the other person. That never like a a place where I was, man, there's nobody that really know what they're doing on social, you know, modeling. I know I'm not going to be able to work as well in Brazil because nobody wants to pay my rate and I cannot lower my rate to the rates that they paying other people because it's disgraceful. It's it's not good for the business. Um, so how I'm going to do it? I went to a different agency where they say, "Oh, we have this like like people that only do social and everything." I went there. Actually, there was a guy there called Gabriel and he actually made me start doing jobs on social, you know. I did like a one, four, like I did like maybe five collaborations with him and like very quickly. And I'm like, "Okay, wait." Like that's happening finally. And then he leaves the agency and I'm like, "Fuck." And then when he leaves the agency, the people that that go in the agency with him, I'm not gonna say names because they know who they are, but who cares. The people that that that get comes in, they go back to that like comfortable zone of just like booking celebrities for influencer jobs because they don't have to do the job, right? I'm not a celebrity in Brazil as much as people thinks that I am, but I'm not. Uh, I still going to have to book the job like, you know, showing who I'm worth, you know, and actually asking what I'm worth. Um, but much easier for just just sit on the couch, get a phone call, you know, sell a celebrity, making a lot of money, making commission, that's it. So when I realized that that wasn't happening anymore, I called Gabriel and I was like, you know, I saw that he opened a social media agency, only digital. So he left that big modeling agency to open his own agency called Write the Future. And when he did that, I was like, "Wait, you know, like I want to do that too, you know, but how can I do it without leaving my modeling agency?" So, I just left the social media side of my modeling agency and I went to Gabriel. It was a whole fight, a whole [ __ ] show, but it worked out. The moment I I got in his agency that's focused on digital only and only have a few people that he that he that he has, but they're none of them is models. None of them is focused on fashion like the focus on fashion, but not models. They only focus on digital and social media. The moment I did the switch, I started doing a bunch of stuff in Brazil in social and digital like and not only that, the moment I started doing a bunch of stuff with social in Brazil, clients start realizing that I wasn't that inaccessible. Mhm. Because one thing that modeling agencies do, especially with guys like me with big name, they like to keep you on a high, very high pedestal where they make people believe and clients believe that they're never going to be able to reach me or they're never going to be able to work with me because, oh my god, no, like let's not even try. They would call the agency, you know, try to book me or they would like end up selling other guys, you know, for, you know, a big package or whatever. You know, that's always been something that it's never been about me. It's been about me being there to for the agency to get clients. So, the moment I was in an agency that that wasn't the focus and I start showing myself as available to to clients in a different platform, as a digital platform, the actual fashion industry and the modeling industry start noticing that and they're like, "Hey, it like you're not like you don't want to do a fashion campaign. You want to do a campaign?" I was like, "Yeah, I mean that's my job, you know, I work as a model. I would love to do a campaign." And they're like, "Okay, so let's do it." So, and then I started working as a model like a lot more than I I ever did in Brazil because of my switch to digitals. And then after when I realized that, I completely left my modeling agency in Brazil. And I'm I'm not with any modeling agency in Brazil. I'm only with a digital agency really. And this is something that it's weird to say it because I just did a whole speech about me being against digital and not like having a hard time to do the switch. But now I find myself in Brazil not having any modeling agency and only with one agency that's a very small, only focused on digital, working my ass off. Like I'm making more money than I ever did in Brazil right now and I'm not even in the modeling agency. This this is just, you know, and I'm a model. But it proves it it proves the I'm still working, but I'm still working as a model. So I'm still booking ad campaigns, modeling campaigns, signing huge contracts with brands, you know, to be their brand ambassador. It's almost like they finally see of who I am and they finally see as me being the accessible guy. And it's almost like it unlocked, you know, I finally found that key that unlocked, you know, and and that's happening in Brazil and it's happening also in different places in the world, especially now in Europe. Um, last year I went through a huge clean out in Europe. You know, I left my agency in Milan. I left my agency in Paris. I left my agency in in in Spain. I only stay with my agency in London and focus on social and um and and also modeling and trying to kind of like get myself back into a place where how can I make that work for me? How can I do the switch but not do the switch, but like kind of like make sure that clients can see that I'm available for digital and also modeling. And then I started doing a little bit of research around social media and I found a very f good friend of mine right now, uh, Yiannis and in um, Giannis Dunner in uh, in in Germany. Uh, I I always saw his videos on social and digital, you know, with with his girlfriend Jessie and like showing like kind of like very pretty videos, slow motion, like very fashion. And I always seen that and I and I I got curious about it because I wanted to do the same. And I I got curious about the industry because I'd been chasing this industry for some time, but I never found people that could actually show me the blueprint and show me the way and how to do it because I always been so one-sided on the modeling. And I reached out to him. I met him in K one time in a party. And then after last year when I went to Europe to spend some time to try to like figure it out my whole like idea, my life there, I reached out to him and say, "Hey, I'm going to Germany. I know you're German, you know, can I come to your place type of deal?" And he was like, "Yeah, like I'm in, I'm in Hamburg, you know, just come over." I took a train, I went to Hamburg and I literally like camped in his like like office/gym for one week. So I was I stayed his place for one week and just like kind of like trying to get myself in this his mentality because he was a model, uh, back in the day, you know, he did campaigns for many big clients also. But then when he realized that modeling agencies were like stealing from him, you know, especially with the whole 40% thing, and he realized that he could have been doing do more, he switched. He he was the one that went towards like digital and be like, "Hey, I can do better than that, you know, I can get a camera and start creating my own content and start creating campaigns for, you know, clients, you know, and kind of go around the agency and do my own thing." And he started doing that and he started getting a lot of momentum and he start actually working very well and making a lot of money in Germany as being that guy. So much that he has his own production company, you know, he he was able to do the switch, you know, he he went for it. And then I was there for a week, you know, just digging that in and learning the craft and really like what what can I do to to chase that same thing that you chased it? And obviously, there's no blueprint, you know, there's no like direction that you take. It's it's depending on the person. His life story is not my life story. But I it was good to be there and sink that in because I was like, there's a lot more to modeling and digital than just, you know, getting an agency and this person is going to find me jobs. No, there's a lot of you in it. And I actually had a few meetings with his agency there and I was like, "Okay, how can we make this happen?" And then I got in. That was my first digital agency that I got in. It was it was uh it was with her like with with his agency in um in Germany that mainly focus. It was a little bit of a blowback with all my modeling agencies because they're all like, "Oh, you know, you don't need that." And it's like, "No, I do." After one month, they booked me a huge job for Boss in Stuttgart. Wow. You know, after one week, actually. And I was like, "Hey, you know, like there you go, you know, one week after I'm already working as a digital a digital model, you know, because I I went to Stuttgart to do a ad campaign for a fragrance for Boss and like as a model, but only for me to post on my page." Mhm. So, this for me, this is a modeling job. Yeah. But instead of them printing and putting my face everywhere in the world, I'm just taking that job and putting on my page. Yeah. Yeah. So, in my eyes, I'm still working as a model. I'm just like working as a model for my own channel. So, I created my own billboard. I created my own place where I can channel in everything I want to do and channel in all the clients I want to work with and really created my own personality and then put it on a on my channel and then sell it, you know, or like just not sell it, but just show my lifestyle. Yeah. And at the same time helping me to help others to, you know, make a make like make a business happen. So, it's it's it really opened my eyes. It really made me like realize that I cannot just sit back and be the old like style dinosaur model of like I'm just going to do castings and and then like I'm going to, you know, go to my job, come back home and just wait for my agency to tell me when is the other casting like, 'cause you one thing that I learned especially around uh the pandemic or after pandemic that, you know, as much as you as as good to have that comfortable life of like just waiting for jobs and the jobs come and you go work and that's it. It there's a moment where they don't come anymore, the jobs, you know, there's a moment where especially around the pandemic, it was a very rough time for models that relied specifically and directly on the modeling business own, like that whole, you know, like that whole business of agency, clients, castings, and, you know, ad campaigns that actually kind of deteriorate. And together with like many confusion around, you know, companies not really sure what models to book or what direction to go. And this actually made a lot of people realize like, wait, I'm not that secure anymore, you know, like that all this money that I that I had, all those clients that I had so easy, they're not there anymore. So like like what are you going to do? And then in another side of it, I seen people that was not focused on modeling but focused more on digital around pandemic that they were driving, like they were like making a lot of money. They were making a lot of things because because of the pandemic, uh, this the whole digital world grew like a like crazy because that was the only thing to do. You know, people couldn't go physically to work, people couldn't go, you know, to places and like, you know, the all this team and everything, it couldn't happen. So brands like, "Okay, how we gonna, you know, advertise all this product that we have? We have to send to people, you know, who is the people that is actually like doing the digital stuff that's actually like a, you know, selling online or like making this this whole like movement happen? They start searching these people and they start, "Hey, let's partnership. Let's do a partnership. Let's do a partnership." So they start working with these people and and that was a time where like the you could see the shift of the the industry, you know, the fashion industry, especially it it really shifted. Right now, it's not the same as before at all. It's still, there is the like, well, don't get me wrong, there is still a lot of work for the conventional models. There's still because I do have friends uh right now that they travel everywhere. They still do the all the lookbooks, the e-coms, the, you know, all the rotation clients. It's this is still exists. It's still there. It's going to take a long time to go away. Hopefully never going to go away, but it's a lot less. And brands are allocating money and marketing money a lot more towards digital and social media than the conventional way of like selling things. And and if you don't, if guys that are used to be like me and kind of stay comfortable with this whole like lifestyle, don't do the don't start adapting and do the switch or at least, you know, try, they going to feel, you know, later. So, it's a, it's, it's, it's a learning process though. It's like right now I see myself as being 100% in it and really not looking back anymore. So much that I want to expand, you know, my my digital uh platform. I want to expand more, you know, get out a little bit of Instagram only, you know, focus a little more on TikTok. Uh, focus a lot more on YouTube, you know, go back with my with my project that I started earlier this year that was the podcast. Start, you know, speaking with different minds, you know, and things. Same thing as you're doing right now that I think is great and everybody should do it. Everybody should have a podcast because it's a great way to actually speak with people that that you want to speak with and have, you know, this conversation flowing. It's uh it's like therapy, I guess.

Thanks for thanks for thanks for sharing this this this. I mean, I I think it's great to have your insights uh as a successful model to do this shift because it's it's happening and it's here and it's it's not going anywhere. And I think anyone who is aspiring to become a model or is in this industry have to adjust and this is very valuable. Um, do you mind if we if we speak a little bit like financial side of of modeling and content creating influencing? Can? No, it's fine. We can we can do that. But hey, wait. This now since you you touched that topic about like guys coming up, you know, like this is something that um for some reason that's another, you know, thing that happened with me. Since the beginning of my career, I always had a lot of people like like following me and being fans. And then that kind of died down a little bit around like 2017, 18, 19, 20. And then like since 2021, more or less 2022, uh, that switched back to crazy amount of people start following me. And then I start realizing back in the day used to be a lot more girls kind of like Justin Bieber type of style, you know, like, you know, like girl, little girls that love you because you're pretty and this and that. But now since like a few years, like two years, I think two, three years, it switched to young guys. Mhm. And since like two, three years, it switched to young guys. And I was like, wait, what's in the beginning? I was like, wait, what's happening? Why why is a bunch of young guys following me? Like, what's the reason? And I started seeing that there was a whole movement in the and and internet around like mogging. I don't know if you ever heard the term mogging. Um, mogging means like somebody that's better than other people type of [ __ ] Okay. But anyways, uh, and then like there's other terms like uh, looks maxing. And I start kind of digging in and trying to understand why so much people. And I saw that there was a whole movement around me, Jordan, and Sean Pry, that we were the face of a movement online of around the Gen Z uh age that young guys really want to better themselves and try to be like me and Sean and and Jordan like physically and how they can do it. And and that's that started a wave of guys really wanted to become models and really wanted to get in the industry. And that's the one of the reasons why my my pages are blowing up, you know, my Instagram is blowing up is because all those young guys, they

See me as somebody that, you know, they they can mirror themsel or they can kind of like, you know, try to be like me and and I love that. I think this is great. I And but I'm still trying it's just like back in the day. I'm still trying to sink that in and trying to how can I help you know how how can I actually make all this like need of those guys that they have to be they want to be like me or they want to be models or whatever how can I actually like you know help that happen and uh that's why I kind of like had the idea of opening Tik Tok you know doing podcasts and things like that but it I still you know struggling with like how I'm going to help.

And I do receive emails, you know, if you send me an email here, you know, I I do receive that a lot of emails of fans and messages, you know, of guys trying to like how can I be a model, you know, how can I start and how so I have a lot of those this this this guys and look, I'm working on I'm working on something that on a platform or something that I I'm going be able to help. Um, may I I don't know when. I don't know how. I don't know what it's going to be, but I'm thinking about it.

But until then, I think like modeling nowadays, if you want to start being a model, you have to rely on social media. Like nowadays, there's no way around it. You have to rely on social media. You have to start trying to build your platform with social media. But if you really want to be a model, uh I encourage you to first, you know, contact your local uh agency, modeling agency. Be aware that the agency is going to try to take money from you just like they did it for with me. This is a this is the business, you know, they don't really make a lot of money with bookings. So, they try to scrap, you know, money out of people any way possible. So, they're gonna try to sell you a package, they're gonna try to make you do a lookbooks or stuff like that, just try to not get screwed up so much. You know, if that if you go to an agency and they interested on you, try to see if that interest is really genuine. And first of all, go to an agency that has that it's big or has good reviews or actually like work in the industry. Make sure that you know that's a real agency. Uh, if they ask you money to do a book, that's understandable because you do you do gonna have to hire a makeup artist and a and a and a photographer and an editor to, you know, make this happen. So, you do going to have to pay for their service, but you're never going to have to pay to get in a agency. This first, you're never going to have to pay. They like, if they want to sign you, you don't have to pay to get in. And if they really want to sign you, they never going to ask you money. That's the first way to realize if they have interest in you or not.

Um, another thing, go like look at me and look at other guys around the fashion industry and try to mirror yourself with them, but not mirror that you're going to like mimic them, but you're going to learn from what they're doing. So you can actually like create your own skill and your own personality, but at least you know like try to understand the ways of how the the the industry works. And I mean like I said, just be yourself, you know, try to do it. Don't be mad if it doesn't work. Uh and also don't be mad if it doesn't work at first. Maybe it's going to work after a year. Uh if you really want to do it, go for it.

There's only a few places in the world that you can actually build a modeling career that is Paris, Milan, and that's it. To be honest, you know, London, you're not going to build much things because it's very commercial. New York City is going to eat you alive. I encourage you if you want to be a model, don't go to New York and try it. you know, go to Europe and try it because that's where a lot of young artists are, a lot of young photographers are, a lot of opportunities for like editorials and and things are. So, this is a places that you're going to have to do a lot of stuff for free. you're going to have to do a lot of stuff that you're not going to make a lot of money, but this is just building your your your book and building your your persona, you know, and there's that's it, you know.

Maybe we can leave it to a different time, a different conversation to like really like how can I help guys to start. But you have to you one thing that you really have to do you have to know who you are in your limits cuz a lot of guys you know they do send me pictures and you know they try to you know they say I want to be a model but maybe you know you should know your limits and you know I I it's it's rough to say it but there's a lot of people that they shouldn't even try it. I know it's it's a it's a trend. And I know guys, they they really want to do it because it's something that young kids nowadays. It's a phenomenon that I never seen before that young kids, they want to be models. Back in my time, it was the opposite. Uh you would never see guys really wanting to be models. I guess it just kind of like happened. But if that's really what you want to do, try to find out if you can first of all. And if you can't maybe like like try something around digital because I feel like the digital world is a lot more forgiven than the modeling world because the modeling world especially in the fashion industry they do still try to find guys that are very skinny uh tall, you know, and have some some type of a face that it's not like the prettiest or it's not the ugliest is in weird between. So, it's it's it's a tricky business that sometimes you will hurt yourself more than actually um help. You know, there sometimes you're going to have success with some people, sometimes you're not going to have success at all. So, it's a it's a very hard business. So, digital, it's a lot safer. It's a lot more forgiven. And it's a great way to get yourself out there and start so much that if you if you look around now, it's crazy because there's a lot of guys in the fash in the that are working currently working with fashion brands and currently working as models that years ago, I can guarantee you 100% they would never be models. They will never even be able to step on a on a on an agency because the agency would 100% turn them away because they're very short and they don't have the build of a model of like a fashion model to like you know put the clothes in and walk the runaway and do the the the the big ad campaigns. Before it was a lot harder to get in in this business. Nowadays it's a lot easier but because of social media. So those guys they what they focus they focus on becoming fashion people on social. So they do a lot of Tik Toks. They do a lot of uh Instagrams. They take a lot of clothes from like fashion world and a lot of a lot of designer clothes. They they make they make a lot of beautiful pictures. But once you see them in real life like attending a show or even walking a show or doing ad campaigns that now it's happening, they you realize that like they would never even be able to get signed in an agency back in the day. So the the market is a lot more open for guys that want to be models because modeling right now is not traditional anymore. It's there doesn't have the the never you're never going to be a model or like this there's none of that anymore. It's a lot more democratic. You can build your but for that you're going to have to build your own page and then you're going to have to get noticed. Once you get noticed you're going to get brands literally throwing stuff at you and making you become what you want to become.

So this is my take on if you want to try, you know, to to pursue this this career. Don't get mad if you get a no. You know, if there's a lot of things there's a lot of times get I got hundreds of thousands of nos. The only few yeses that I got, it made who I am. But the majority of the time I got nos. Uh, I got frustrated before from not getting jobs so much that I learned that it makes no sense. You get frustrated. You just have to, you know, whatever. And that's it, you know, like do your thing. If you really want to do it, do your thing. If if the modeling industry, the fashion industry, the agencies don't really want to support you and you really still want to do it, go towards the digital side. There's a lot of guys out there that are bigger than than me and bigger than any model right now and they are digital. They're and they work in the fashion industry. Like they have more um like they have more jobs and more things going for them in the fashion world than actual models. And they're not even models. But it's it's crazy cuz like the I one time I was I went to to Milan like now last year and it was the first time that I was like really like understanding what's happening and I realized that I a lot of those guys that I see on social media their dream is to be a model but they they are never able to be models because there's many different things that you know that that stops you from being like, you know, like the the the whole like height or or body shape and things like that, but they were bigger than me be because like they were making more money or they're making or whatever, you know, but they're they their dream was to be me and they asked pictures their fans, but their dream is so I'm like trying to understand. I'm like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait." Like I like I want to be you right now. Like stop. I want to be that guy. So, it's a it's the the the worlds are merging a lot more than you know, you would think.

Thanks for thanks for sharing that. I think that's great great advice coming from you and yeah and it's like I felt like it was a truly honest advice and live through your lens and your experience and to so to come back to the financial question I just have one like one just one major question like what would be say chico like the the highest paid job you did as a model and the highest paid job you don't need to name the client or anything like that but or if you want of course we're open to hear it But uh sometime it can be confidential. Yeah. As a model and as a influencer content creator I'm curious to see like is it close? Is it completely off?

Well it so one thing that you have to understand like the model industry especially with like paid you know like those big paychecks it's it's being degrading more and more and more and more and more. Like I heard there's the whole like I heard back in the day you would do like a a fragrance contract that this is the the main thing a male model can ever dream of is a fragrance contract. And back in the day they used to pay a million dollars a year for a fragrance contract. And that would be like the most some model just model would ever do. I never reached that that place. I heard in my time some guys maybe did like 500,000 a year contracts with one job. What about you? What about you, Chico? Like what is your highest paid job as a model and high job?

My highest paid contract was a fragrance that was like around €280,000 for for how long? Like for a one year for a one-year contract. But you did one day of shoot for that or it was more one day of shoot that was paid also. So 280 just for the contract and then plus 30,000 just for the the day of job. So like that that was my biggest payday. Wait, so 260,000? No, like around 300,000 in total. 300,000 US or euros? No, euros. Euros. Okay. So that was my biggest payday in one job. That actually was like it was a job that I did with Jess with a fragrance that we did together. Really? Uh so the on those jobs exist still like there's still fragrances paying like 250k, 300k. Um, a lot of the fragrance, the main ones, the ones that used to book like 500k fragrance or all those stuff, they still pay the nowadays there's a lot of fragrance that they got bought by big companies and they're paying like 80k, 100k, you know, a year that for one job obviously um that was just was just included in the raid or just all just got her own thing. Just got her own thing. She got a little She got a little less. I mean, because it was a good day for the Lowski family. Yeah, it was a good day for us. Okay. So, it was a great It was a great day for us.

But but like that's the thing. Social media, it's different because you don't have that on social media. You're never going to have that on social media. You could because on social media, you have a lot more room to improve your image and your your star, right? So you can like it's a lot social media is a world is a yoss right now like it's not like modeling you have a where a like you have an industry where agencies can't really charge more or less than other agencies. So we can keep that industry alive right and we can keep clients a check with like underpaying or overpaying. So, it's like we it's balancing the the the industry. With social media, you don't have that because you don't really know who how much the client's paying. You don't know even know who is booking. You don't even know if there's an agency involve it. You don't even know if the guy is a actor or singer or nobody or just came out of his [ __ ] like, you know, bed and doing his first job, you know, like you don't know. So in the same like event you could have a brand paying not paying no one paying one guy 1,000 and paying another guy 500,000 you know whatever for one post because you don't sell you're not selling it does it thing you're not you're not really like working for a brand like a model like because a model it's the way it works is they take you you know just because of your modeling skills. Not because of your name, not because of who you are, not because of your platform. No, they just booking you because of the way you look and your modeling skills. That's it. Even me that I created my name and I put myself so high up as a model. Even me I when I work when I book when I work as a model is mainly for my modeling skills and the way I look other than who I am. They couldn't care less. They don't care if you're Chico Kachowski or the the whatever guy. You know, if they like the look of that whatever guy better, they're going to book the whatever guy. You know, obviously there is a big gap on like on rates. You know, my rates going to be higher. So, you know, if they book me is because they know who they getting. They know the the job is going to look good. They know, you know, the client's going to be happy. They know the outcome's going to be. So, that's what you chase on the modeling career. You chase that security that you pass to the client. You, you know, you pass that security to the client that if I book that guy and I pay that price, I'm 100% gonna get what I'm what I'm what I want. So, that's what a model is. A social media and a digital guy is a completely different ball game. You're selling yourself and then is a completely you're selling the power of you. You're selling your name. You're selling your presence. You're selling what you can give to this client as creative, you know, your creativity, your your way of like like promoting yourself within this brand to people. So it's it's like it's not even connected one and the other even though it's still a modeling job. It's not a modeling job because it's yourself. And I one thing I like about digital side is that you really work with the client. You're not working for the client, you know. So one as a model, you work for the client. You go, you work, you leave. Sometimes the more the client doesn't even know want to know how your day is. [ __ ] you. Yeah. When you work as a when you work as a as an influencer, a digital guy, you're working with the client. The client wants to make sure you're like looking good. He wants to make sure you're feeling good. He wants to make sure you get all of the the like something that one thing something that it's weird that a lot of people think that as a model especially as a big model people think that I get clothes all the time that every job that I do I get the clothes I I get pamper I get gifts and stuff no as a model they don't care they're not really giving you [ __ ] you know you do a job like after three days they're not going to give you stuff you know they pay you already you did your job buy it go home as a as a digital influence answer. It's the other way around. They want to give you everything. It's like, "Wow, that's great." You know, they actually they actually pay you and give you stuff, you know? They they want to make you happy. They want to make you feel a part of the brand. And this is something that I love about the digital industry is that they really care about you. The collaboration part, like really collaborating brands together. Yeah. It's a it's it's crazy because it's crazy to say it, but the CL mo most of the clients in the modeling industry, they don't care about the model. They're booking you. You go, you do your job, you leave. That's it. In the digital world, they care deeply about you, like deeply. They they really want to make sure you're you're feeling good, you're looking good, you get what you deserve, you like it's it's it's a it's a it's a it's a it's something that I realized when I started doing a lot more digital work that I'm like wow like why why you know I didn't do that before now I'm finally feeling like they care you know but going back to the the guys.

Um, as a model, it's easy to put a price tag on things. As a digital uh guys, not so easy because it depends on the job. It depends on how much they want from you. So, it depends if they want one post, two post, one reel, two reals, the stories, you know, it's it that's how they sell you, right? They sell you by like uh what's your commitment to how much money they have, what's their budget, and how much they want and how much they need. Uh the best things around um the influencer side. I mean, if you're somebody that is like you're huge and you have a big name and you and you're a huge celebrity, you can, you know, you like there's rumors that, you know, there's people that charge 500,000 for a post, like one one million for a post. You know, this is crazy [ __ ] This is stuff that like never reached the level and I don't like maybe one day I will, but you know, I don't know how it's going to happen. Maybe it will one day. I'm not I guess I'm chasing it, but at the same time, uh I think you have to reach a level of stardom that it's like, you know, Kardashian style and then, you know, or Caddy, you know, the guy that does the thing like this, uh that it's not impossible. It's very doable, but it's just it's going to happen. It's just going to happen. It's like even if you chase it, there's moments you might not happen. It might happen. So, but as a normal job in the digital world, it's it's very much done with what's your platform, how many followers you have with client. Some clients, yes, some clients, they don't care. Uh what's your what's your your what really you you show in your page, you know, what's your focus in your page if it's like fashion or sports and things like that. So, it's so many variables in the fashion industry around how much money you can make and how can you charge that, you know, and it's the wild west because you never know. Maybe some people are making a lot of money, maybe some people are not, you know, maybe like you get invited to something that you're making five times less than the other guy that knew how to negotiate better. So, it's it is a a tricky spot, you know, digital, but I think it's going to get it's going to get more regulated. not regulated, but it's going to get a little more of of a blueprint more and more the past of the years.

Um, but now I think if I go I don't know. how to like how much money I made the biggest payday because it's it's weird cuz I I now I have like a contract with like a a few brands around around social media but those contracts are like six months or a year contract where that's fine that's fine involves like that involve no but what I'm what I'm explaining is because it's different Okay. So involve so for example I have guaranteed with one brand for a year of work. So it's like one post a month. So 12 post like a guaranteed like €80,000 you know €80,000. One post a month for like for because it's like a package deal, you know? I see. So but like for that same brand you can do one post for 20,000. So like but it's like many different types of negotiations I see where where you you you don't know it's still very significant. It's still like Yeah. Yeah. There's some clients where like you can you you you can like uh go for broke like oh pay me like 50k for one post. And sometimes they will say yes. Yeah. Some clients you think they have money but then they come and be like oh we can only pay 5,000. It was like and then he was like really and then you come to a po a point where the majority of the clients they want to pay you like a,000 5,000 or like 10,000 max for a post and then there's other clients that you can actually reach a level where you get paid a lot more and then where do you balance I see your job right but well the beauty of it all that nobody really knows. Yeah. So yeah, it it it's and a lot more than the fashion industry because one thing in the fashion industry that I I've been a victim of it and my entire career is that because I put myself in such a huge pedestal with my name and my career. I had to say no for a lot of jobs that were paying well, but they were they were underpaying for who I was or what they wanted. And that was a decision that wasn't really made by me because if it was made by me, I would not say no. I would always say yes. But there's a whole thing around modeling industry when you reach the point where the agencies want to control your image. Yeah. And they want to make sure that you're not doing this or that or this or that or that. And then you end up like losing a lot of money in the process. Yeah.

Um, one thing I understood about this around my career is that image is very important. Mhm. You know, making sure you know what you work or who you work and what you worked is very important, but a lot of times they're full of [ __ ] especially agency. A lot of the times it's not like that. And I have a client to this day that like pays me a good amount of money, a like very good amount of money, but my agency said, "No, no, no, no, no. You're not doing it. You're not doing it." And this was one of those clients that I fought like big time to be like there's no there's nothing in this whole world they going to they going to convince me that this is not a job that I'm going to do and I went and did it and I'm so glad that I did it because and I pro they they still pay me. I did this job in 2018. this job. Every year they pay me like like 40,000 euros per year for what? For the like the usage or for the usage and ask me if I ever see those pictures in my life. I never see those pictures. I'm going to say I'm I'm going to say it's it was a shaving like job for Brown. You know Brown the shaving brand. Yeah. I think they use it in Asia, like in like somewhere in the Philippines or whatever. Like if you're from Asia, you're probably seeing my face like shaving around. This is a job that my agency didn't want me to do. They said, "No, you're not doing it because they could pay more and this and that and this is going to hurt your image, you know, like clients other clients not going to want to work with you." I was like, "Where are where are the other clients?" Yeah. I don't know. Show me show me an option. Show me the other clients trying to pay more, you know. Yeah, because right now you're literally saying like the job was like I think it was like 85,000 like the first time it was not enough or because it was a a 40 40,000 usage plus like 30,000 job plus this and that, you know, like day rates and stuff. And they were saying like no like uh you know you're like we're going to say no because it's it's like you know it's going to hurt your image. It's like [ __ ] my image. It's brown. Like it's like it's a shaving I like show me in my history of modeling from like the moment I started in 2018 that I did one shaving job. Yeah. There was no shaving job in sight. So like now like all of the sudden a shaving job is going to hurt my image for other clients like skincare clients. Like stop with that man. Really? And this this job it's so good because they still pay. They still pay me. I can't believe it man. Like it's still paying me, dude. Like it's like it's a usage that's never going to end. And if they want to redo it, I'll be glad. I'm going to Germany right now to redo the campaign. Hey, Brown. No, I have more beard now. That's the day that had a lot of beer. We can redo can do better this time. We can even put in social media. We can do some posting, you know, collab. There you go. That's that's you know it's so like going back to my point. Yeah, image is important but most of the time it's [ __ ] Most of the time it's just like agencies telling you something that's not true, that's not real that you know it. And like you do have to always if you wanna if you want to make sure it but obviously this this is only gonna come when to a point when you you know make yourself like a image you know you have to make an image to preserve this image for sure you know like but if you don't have an image just work because the moment you have an image and they start make saying no to clients just be aware you know most of this [ __ ] Just don't don't just just go. Just work. Most of it you're not even you're not even going to see it.

So, Chico, we're arriving pretty much at the end of this amazing conversation. I feel like we've we've covered a lot and you've shared a lot of valuable insight from your specific career and niche and I appreciate that. I have a few rapid questions. Lowski Chico edition about I I I you know like rapid question is something that never worked for me because really you have to you I'm not that I'm not I'm not a rapid guy. I know I see that I see that from this conversation but I like that I'm also very detail oriented. I feel like you are too like you like to share and expand. But let's just try it. Okay. So I have like 16 17 question. Let's be like, you know, oneliner and let's just have fun and then we'll call it a day. So, okay. Ready, set, go. Chico. Paris or Milan? Paris. Paris. New York or LA? New York. Runways or photo shoot? Runaways. Instagram or Tik Tok? Instagram. A dream campaign or collaboration you haven't done yet. I don't know, man. Something that involves everything I love in a fragrance and that million dollar that that million dollar contract a year. Okay. Million dollar contract. You definitely have the million dollar smile. So, I hope that you will get that. All right. One mantra or philosophy that keeps you grounded. I don't have it. Sorry. Okay. Meditation or weightlifting? Weightlifting. Mountain biking or tennis? Ah, no. Stop it. Tennis now obviously. Tennis because it's my it's always been my my sport, but mountain biking is my type of meditation. Okay. Biggest lesson you wish to pass down to your kids. Stay true to yourself, be yourself, and never change. Any current obsessions? Oh, um I mean coffee always be coffee. Okay. Espresso or cappuccino? Cappuccino with an extra shot. With an extra shot. Favorite workout or way to stay active currently? Tennis. What's your go-to comfort zone? Uh sorry. What's your co go-to comfort food? Oh, burger. Burger. Favorite way to disconnect and recharge? Um, cycling. Cycling. What's one item you always travel with? Oh, that changes a lot though. Like back in the day used to be like a speedo and swimming glasses to go swimming anytime I could I could. And then it turned into jumping ropes. Now it's tennis racket. Tennis racket. Yeah. Push-ups or pull-ups? Push-ups. Push-ups. Beach or mountain? Beach. Biggest fashion trend that you're loving right now? H. [Music] Let me think because there's so many rapping. I mean the fat fashion trend fashion trends around tennis. So I seen a racket from Supreme. It was great. Loved it. The Yonx and one one sunglasses or watches. Watches. Okay, last one. If you had one word to describe your journey so far, what would that be? One word. Yeah, I know it's a hard one, but I mean be yourself is true. Beautiful. That's it. Two words. I guess that works. That's it. Richer for be yourself. Yeah. I mean, I from the conversation I had, I think it makes a lot of sense to be true to yourself and authentic.

Guys, this was a podcast with my dear friend Chico. I mean, it was very very inspiring. I I I learned a lot from you and and I you know you've I think you gave a lot of valuable uh insight especially for you know speaking about modeling content and everyone that wants to get in this industry and all the in between. I'm very also proud of you like leaving the good for the great and taking those leap of faith would change your life also inspired many and now you have your family and your family can you can support them and I'm very excited to to keep on following your journey and to see what's next. Before we call it a day, can you just share maybe where we can find you and which platform if people would like to follow your journey?

Sure. I mean you can find me in Instagram. Let me see what's my handle. I always forget. So I swear to God, I never know if it's Lachchowski, Chico or Chico Lowski. Is Chico underline Lachowski. Okay. And my Tik Tok I have no idea. Wait a second, guys. I'm I'm I'm getting there. Oh, my Tik Tok is Chico Lachowski 13 and Yo Chico Podcast coming back live. I promise. Yes. I promise. Fingers crossed. It's It's happening. And I'm actually gonna share something that I'm been working with especially with related with guys trying to become models. I'm working with a friend so we can finally open some type of agency where like maybe a mo agency where we can give the like at least a few pointers so guys can subscribe can come in you know send their digitals you know send like how they look like you know the try try to try to like come in the agency as a model we're going to you know start looking at people that really have um a chance and placing them in agencies around the world. And for people that we see that agencies for modeling is not really uh a way we can try to like guide them towards a different way to you know turning like coming to become a model just like what I say in the podcast. So we're coming up with this agency. I don't know when it's going to be yet. Uh there's a lot of like moving pieces to make this happen because it's not something I can just like, hey, send me emails. I'm going to help you. I'm going to need help. Uh I'm going to be personally involved because I I like I said, you have to do everything yourself. You have to make sure that things are 100%, you know, the way you think it should be. And so if you guys don't be scared, I'm going to be looking at it. you know, if I get overwhelmed emails that probably I will hope, you know, I guess if you really want to know anything about my experience as a model and like how can I help you to become a model and if I could, you know, I'm going to try to help and that's going to be my channel and that's going to be the way I'm going to try to do it by creating a professional agency that I can actually create real impact on people's life and maybe, you know, I can create some top models. That's amazing. Yeah, I think that's great, man. That's the first That's the first time I'm talking about this then. By the way, that's great. I think it's great. So much so much anyone if when I started my career, I would have loved to have someone who can mentor me and guide me because it's such a big it's such a big industry and you can get lost and to have someone that can guide you and and filter uh and help you along the way. That's awesome. So, I wanted to say Chico, thank you so much, man, for for joining today. I know you were in Brazil. I'm here. We you made some time. Please say hello to your wife, to the kids, and I really hope that we can we we had a great conversation in Tulum a few years ago. Yes. And we were talking about social media. I don't you remember we were having coffee like speaking about social media and like you were kind of like I don't know where and like I wanted, you know, you you were in in the pursuit of of figuring this this world out. I think it was like two years ago. So, um I know we're not often in the same country, but I hope I hope we'll we'll connect soon and and yeah, thanks for having me and um bro, see you soon. Well done, man. If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to follow the show and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. It really help us to grow and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening. [Music]