Physician's View on Building Health with Herbs (and How You Can Too) with Dr. Jacqui Wilkins

Hello, and welcome to the Virtual Herbalism Conference. I'm your host, Lindsey Feldpausch. In this session, we are joined by Dr. Jacqui Wilkins. Dr. Jacqui is a naturopathic physician, plant medicine creator, and thoughtful educator. Dr. Jacqui is of mixed Yakima, Irish, and Eastern European ancestry. She weaves clinical naturopathic training with traditional knowledge through an indigenous lens. She's the founder of Xálish Medicines, a plant medicine line crafted in ritual and in alignment with the seasons. Her work centers on Earth-based practices, medicine making, traditional Chinese medicine, ancestral reverence, and preconception through postpartum care. Through online courses, community circles, and workshops focused on healing and food sovereignty, her work invites us to remember our relationship with the land, our ancestors, and to one another. In our conversation, "A Physician's View on Building Health with Herbs and How You Can Too," we'll explore her perspective on building health, where research and tradition meet, and the small habits that can compound into real change. Please help me in welcoming Dr. Jacqui Wilkins.

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to share and to just chat and connect with you all here. I would love to start off by hearing a little bit more about what shaped your lens on herbal medicine and how did this shift once you became a physician?

I love this question so much, as I feel like there are so many different things that shaped my lens and continue to shape my lens. Different experiences, people, interactions with the land, the plants, my own family and ancestry as well. So foundationally, I grew up with a strong connection to the land and spending a lot of time outdoors in the garden, on the land, fishing, tending to the plants with my parents, my grandparents. I would actually communicate with the plants, which I know sounds a bit woo and out there for some. But I have strong memories of these connections with cottonwood and sagebrush, especially. Yet I lacked human elders to guide me through that process and understanding that these connections are actually inherent in who many of us are, and these relationships with the Earth are just part of who we are as humans as well.

As I got into my 20s, I started really deepening into this remembering of working with the plants for healing and for remembering. At the time, which I know sounds so far fetched now, but I didn't even know what an herbalist was. I didn't know that herbalism was a path that was even available to me. I remember I had this little book, and it was, I think, called "A Book of Tea" or something. It was just really small. I remember sitting at the counter in my mom's kitchen, probably in my early 20s, and just asking her to share some of her health stuff with me because she was going through some stuff. She was sharing different symptoms, different things that were coming up. I was taking notes, and then I was going through my book and putting together an herbal tea for her. We would go and try to source the plants. It just felt like very innate to who I am and just this natural way of being.

I put that to the side for a little while and went and became a makeup artist. I worked for MAC in Chicago, which I'm sure shaped lots of different things as well. I found that a lot of my clients and people who would come in to have their makeup done would start sharing with me some of their health concerns and ask questions and things going on because I was interested in, at the time, herbalism, natural, quote, unquote, natural healing, natural modalities, holistic health. I knew there was so much that I didn't know. I thought, "Okay, I should maybe consider this path instead." I didn't, again, know that herbalism was even a path to take, but I had heard of naturopathic medicine. I had a friend who went to naturopathic medical school in Toronto at CCNM. I went and visited CCNM. When I realized we were primary care physicians who could do cervical exams and run labs and do minor surgery, I was like, "This is a lot and not for me." I actually left and felt disheartened of like, "Well, this is not exactly what I had in mind."

But fast forward to about a year later, and the plants I really felt were still calling, and I still felt this really deep call to work with the plants for healing with humans and tend to the Earth in that way. I actually ended up going back to naturopathic medical school. Really, in hindsight, I realized that it was the plants and botanical medicine that was really calling me and my well ancestors, nudging me on this path, which I think many of us can relate to. Then once I got into naturopathic school and was studying botanical medicine, I remember one of my first classes. We were talking about formulating and intakes, and it was just this aha moment of, "That's what I was doing." I didn't even know. I have goosebumps even. I didn't know, even at the time, that that's what I was practicing or that's what I was doing. It really felt like a coming home and a remembering. I finally felt like, "Wow, I have teachers who can guide and share and who I can learn from." Human teachers. There's always been plant teachers around. It really shifted things in a way that it helped me remember those innate childhood connections and even into my young adult years, those innate ways of working with the plants.

Then, of course, it opened up this whole world of what I didn't know and how much there is to know about humans and about the Earth and about plants and about how we can connect and work together. And I really found myself at sometimes, at some points, being frustrated with breaking down the plants into their constituents. Really, that very rigid, really zooming in on the different plant constituents. I felt really like there was this lack of plant spirit medicine woven in there, which is so important. Later, with time, I began to appreciate so much about learning of the phytochemicals and the constituents of the plants because they can inform us in so many different ways. We can really see how plants interact with our own physiology and how those constituents can actually impact very small things in our bodies that actually have a ripple effect within our bodies and pathways and all of the beautiful nerdy science. It really shifted so much in remembering and also opening up this world and realizing how much there is to continually learn and how we weave so beautifully with the plants and our own bodies for healing.

That's a beautiful story, Dr. Jacqui. I absolutely love the combination of both the energetic and spiritual side of herbalism and the phytochemistry and science. I think that both have so much to offer. I imagine in your practice, you are able to cultivate these in many ways as a naturopathic doctor and an herb grower, land steward, and really all of this coming from your mixed Indigenous background. How do these aspects inform your views of health today?

I think it's such a wide question. We could take it in so many different directions and so many different paths. But I think one of the foundational aspects is that we are part of our environment. We are the land. We are all woven. The health of us, of humans, is intimately woven with the health of the land and our environment, as we are part of the environment. Also, the health of the Earth is connected with the health of us, the health of humans, the health of humanity, community, and all beings here as well. That, of course, can sound very simple, and it can be, but it's a reminder that we're impacted by global health, by the health of the water, by the health of the land, by relational health, and even economic health. We know that it's all connected. There are so many specific examples like having access to clean drinking water. We talk a lot about the root causes of disease and really getting to the root cause. We really have to understand these wider perspectives when we're really looking at human health and how they impact. For example, someone who's experiencing food insecurity, maybe postpartum, doesn't have access to nourishing foods, which we talk about the importance of, or even the care, the time, the energy, all of these things that are so vital to nourishing during the postpartum time. Maybe that person isn't able to produce adequate milk, or they don't have the support that they need. Then the baby's health and the parents' health is also greatly impacted. Those are just a few small examples of how our health is not just individual and is so woven with our greater environment.

I find, especially these days, there's a large focus on interventions like supplements and lifestyle modifications like cold plunges or saunas or even herbal medicine. They can be so important and so impactful, but we also have to consider accessibility. I think things like growing our own medicines if we're able to, which, of course, requires access to those spaces, but creating community medicine gardens, food sovereignty, all of these things play such an important role with our overall health. Also considering things like spiritual health. For example, for many Indigenous people, having access to ceremonies is a vital aspect of not only physical health, like going into sweat lodge and having that physical experience, but also spiritual health. Then that can impact, of course, mental health. These It's things sometimes we don't realize how interwoven and interconnected they are, but they're vital for our individual and our collective health.

For me, I began noticing while I was seeing patients that it didn't matter what the patient was coming in for. It could be a wide range of ages and of different concerns they were coming in for, so epilepsy or cancer or chronic pain or mold, fertility, all these different experiences that we have. But I found with every single patient, I would still be coming back to these other determinants of health, like relational health and environmental health. If someone was working somewhere and they were having constant exposure to chemicals, but they had to be in that position, how do we live in these systems and find ways? The plants are beautiful at that. I found myself going through a lot of these foundational things with patients and connecting with the land and having those built-in practices, asking and connecting with, well, ancestors, if people were interested and open to that, and how these things can really support our health from a foundational level. I switched my practice from one-on-one to sharing these teachings and making medicines a bit more widely, because to me, they really are foundational. Our relationship to the land, our relationship to ourselves, to one another, to me, is really foundational to our overall health and the health of our environment. That's a bit, I guess, of an overview of how these different lenses impact my view on health and overall health.

There's so many practices that you've mentioned here, Dr. Jacqui, that are pivotal to existence on this plane, just being connected with the Earth and finding wholeness in ourselves as part of this ecosystem. There's many small practices in there, just being outdoors in nature or gardening, that can really support. I'd love to hear from you as a naturopathic physician, but also as an herbalist and an Indigenous person. How do you create herbal protocols for your patients who are coming in to see you? And what are the foundational steps that you apply to their protocols from the get-go?

Yeah. So really, as with so many questions, it really depends. It depends on the person, and it depends what they're coming in for. So if someone was completely new to herbs, and maybe it was one of our first appointments or first times working together, of course, we would go through their main goals. And I think that's really an important one to start with and to understand because so many times, as we've already discussed, there can be this feeling of overwhelm. Whether we're working with herbs as someone who is wanting to build their herbal knowledge for themselves, their families, their communities, and where do we start there, or whether that's working with herbs for more personal health and healing, we want to understand our first goals and our intentions, and then we can broaden or deepen from from there. And so really understanding what is coming up for you the most right now would be one of the questions that I would ask because that can shift. We're constantly shifting and changing, as we know. We're cyclical beings, we're seasonal beings. And so really understanding what has been coming up the most for you in this moment, and then working from there.

And so we might actually start with more symptomatic relief. If there's something that's really acutely aggravating, like digestive pain or acute pain or something like that. That's really aggravating or even maybe anxiety. And someone isn't able even to fully take on or implement a full protocol because there's so much other acute stuff coming up. And so we might need to focus on some of those things first and really not overwhelm the person with giving them too many things. I see that so often of giving 10 different supplements and herbal formulas. And then you also have to change your whole diet and you also have to do this three times a day. And that's a lot for people. And change can be challenging for all of us. And so also being realistic with what we are able to do, like ourselves, if we're connecting with ourselves or also being realistic with what a patient or what someone is able to really implement and doing that gradually.

Then, of course, we're always hoping to get into the deeper root causes of what is actually maybe causing an imbalance. And so, yes, we may have someone who's presenting with insomnia, for example. And so we may start by working with some plants that are supportive for sleep and getting a good night's rest. But then hopefully, the goal is to also be implementing some of those foundational root cause supports and getting to why is there insomnia? Why are you experiencing anxiety? Where is the acute pain coming from? Or how is it developing into chronic? And so from there, we can deepen into supporting more foundationally. And then we can also bring in, gradually, depending on the person, depending on lifestyle habits, depending on someone's, I already foundational practices, then we can also bring in those things like sleep hygiene. Are you on your phone right before bed? Are you on your screens right before bed? Is it noisy? Are you able to sleep? What do you need to get a good night's sleep, for example? And so also looking at those foundational things, like of course, diet, moving our bodies in ways that we're able to. Increasing circulation is such a foundational and important one. Oxygenating our tissues so that they're able to function. Drinking, I think, I don't know if I said, but I have my water here, and it reminded me. So drinking enough water. These are all aspects that are foundational. And so, of course, those would be woven in the first steps also while understanding not to overwhelm someone. So giving some baseline and then working from with acute and then more root cause and shifts. So again, it's varied for every person, so that's hard to give a general, but I hope that feels supportive and gives an idea of if we sometimes don't have some of those foundational aspects in place, it can be really challenging. Plants, as beautiful and healing and as amazing as they are, can't really replace drinking enough water, can't really replace getting adequate sleep, can't replace fully really stretching and moving our bodies in ways that are accessible to us. Those aspects are really vital and important when we're working with the plants, too.

I really appreciate that layered approach, Dr. Jacqui. I feel like that is such an important part about herbalism, as well as the fact that while plants are incredible, and all of us are here because we recognize how amazing they are, there are some things that plants cannot fix. You do not have a valerian deficiency based on your insomnia. You have insomnia for another reason. And part of being an herbalist, and in your case, a physician, is figuring out what that is and supporting the growth and health of the human you're working with. So I would love to hear from you, Dr. Jacqui, if you have some herbs or simple routines that you could suggest for folks to do in their kitchen with things that they might even have on hand to build the foundations of health in their own home.

I love kitchen herbalism. It's one of my favorites. I love it so much. There can often be, as we've discussed, this hesitation when first working with plants and working with herbs of, "Am I doing this right?" Or a feeling of, "I don't want to make a mistake." When we come into the kitchen and bring herbs into the kitchen, I feel like for most people or many people, we awaken this creativity and this child-like part of ourselves. Many of us, we're here, we like working with plants. Many of us probably were making potions and creating and doing those types of things. And so when we bring herbalism into the kitchen, I feel like it's really rooted, but also heart-opening and creative and also connecting with ancestral as we all come from the Earth. And we all have practices of working with plant medicines in the kitchen and probably memories of different times in our lives of people maybe making something as simple as a peppermint tea or something. And, so we all have... Most of us have these memories and bringing spices and herbs into the kitchen. I feel like even that itself invites in some of that healing and that spaciousness to be created creative and to play. And it's in the word create. And so oftentimes when we think of herbs in the kitchen, we think of high volatile oil herbs or like, dramatic herbs. So things like thyme and rosemary and clove and cinnamon. I love all of them so much, but we can also bring in other herbs. That's just a reminder, too, that while those are what we think of sometimes when we think of kitchen herbs, that we can cook with with so many different plants, and we can make herbal drinks and remedies with so many different plants as well.

So lately, I've really been loving making broths. And so that's something that is accessible to many of making herbal broth. So whether that's a vegetarian or vegan, like mushrooms, things like that, or whether you're adding in bones and beef broth or things like that, and then adding in different herbs that maybe we have on hand, at the end to preserve some of those volatile oils. Again, the thyme and the rosemary, they can be really beautiful for times where we may not be feeling well. They can help ease congestion. They can help with our sinuses, so doing steam inhalations, too, inhaling that broth and that good medicine. But then also broadening a little bit and adding things like seaweed and calendula and nettle. And so I've really been loving bringing the plants into broths and then making soups and stews, even adding that to rice and things like that to increase the medicinal effects of the broth and of the stew or soup or whatever we may be making. And seaweed and nettle are two of my favorites to pair together for building and nourishing. And they're very much like food medicines. Of course, we know seaweed has traditional use for thousands of years of supporting during times of exhaustion, during times of postpartum, of nourishing and building blood. Of course, always considering any interactions with any plants that we may be working with. But we can also work with herbs in different ways that we may not always consider. So for example, making a granola and adding a mushroom powder like chaga, and even an adaptogen, like ashwagandha, and then the cinnamon, and the clove, and ginger. And so right there, we're making a medicinal food, but we don't always think of them that way. And with some patients, we've actually created a protocol where we had the therapeutic clinical dose that we were looking for and can actually build that into whatever we're making. So whether that's a granola or even like a nut and seed bar. And so then they can take their herbs in ways that feel pleasurable and nourishing in those ways.

And so I would say getting to know a few plants that you feel called to. If you're starting in the kitchen right now, it depends what you have in your kitchen, what you're stocked with. But even like a cinnamon-ginger infusion is plant medicine. That's an herbal infusion, and that's such a beautiful one for supporting digestion, for bringing warmth to the body, so especially in cooler months, increasing circulation. And that itself can be reducing inflammation, so many different aspects to it. And so that can be just a really simple, beautiful infusion to start with or getting to know, getting out maybe your herbs that you have in a spice cabinet and just getting to know, tasting them and seeing how does this actually taste? How does this impact me physiologically, what memories come through, like the mental-emotional. There's so many different ways that we can start really where we are and start really simply with five different plants or even three, and get to know them and experiment and play with them. Also getting to know the plants that are growing around us. Bringing those into the kitchen, if that's accessible, or many culinary herbs grow really well in pots. Starting our own culinary herb garden, even on a balcony or in a pot. That can help connect us to the seasons as well. So eating more seasonally, which, of course, impacts our circadian rhythm and our sleep, our hormones, all of those things.

There's so many good reminders here, Dr. Jacqui. I feel like the importance of the food as our medicine, which absolutely, if we look back into the beginning of our species, food has come from the plant world, and in turn, our medicine started there. I feel like in today's world, one of the most important things is bringing that playing creativity into the kitchen. I loved the suggestions that you made. There's so many great ways. The broths that you mentioned. I love making infused vinegar. There's electuaries with powdered herbs and honey. The granola bars you mentioned, It's such a great way to create and play and also take our herbs in. I think that for many folks starting off in the kitchen, there's always a question of how much. Because even our culinary herbs, though they are safe in appropriate culinary doses, too much ginger is real. It's not going to harm you, but it might just be uncomfortable or maybe cause some digestive upset. The question I have for you is, how do you recommend that folks really learn how to take their herbs? How much, how often, and how do you approach dosing in preparation form for folks that come to you for learning and in your practice?

Yeah. It's such an important question and distinction. There can be, as you mentioned, a difference between therapeutic dosage and working plants for a more clinical impact, for a lack of better words, or working with them just in a culinary way, or even more for acute or emotional metaphysical support. Of course, we know they can do a lot, but there will be different applications for that. For example, if we were really working with an herbal medicine to really push numbers on the bloodwork, we were trying to really push a pathway or push something to move on labs, for example, then we would probably be working with a higher dose and working with a plant or an herbal medicine for usually a longer period of time than, for example, making like I have, herbal tea for some heart-opening and nervous system support while we're chatting. Those are very different things and different approaches. That would be one of the first things is understanding our goal and our intention with working with the plants and what our hopes are within ourselves. Physiologically speaking or emotionally, what are our intentions? What are our goals when we're working with this plant? I like intention maybe more than goals.

Then, of course, it's so important to have the proper dosage depending. So many times I've heard people say, "Oh, I tried X, Y, Z, and it didn't help." Then you're like, "Okay, tell me more." Then you realize the preparation could have been wrong. That's vital for when we're working with plants, as we know, different chemical constituents are pulled in different menstruums. It's important that we're working with a menstruum that's paired with the intention that we have for the constituents that we're wanting to pull from the plant. So, preparation, and preparation meaning more like oxymel, tincture, infusion for listeners. Of course, each one will be different depending on the plant. Then dosage and duration. When you get into the why didn't that work? Because you're like, "Well, that should have maybe been supportive in some way." And then you realize maybe the dosage was way too small. And they were taking a fourth of what maybe we would want to be working with for a therapeutic effect. Or maybe they were taking it like they took it two or three days out of a week. And really, it needed to be one that was worked with regularly, daily, for even maybe a bit longer term, or the preparation was off, as we've discussed. It's one of those questions that it's like, how do we approach it? Really, it is the intentions that we have and the goal of the patient or of the person. Then remembering also the difference as we've discussed, between acute and chronic care. Chronic care for something that's been going on for a longer period of time, we may need that duration to be a bit longer as well. We may be working with an herbal formula or an herbal protocol for months or even a year. Whereas something more acute, someone coming in maybe for a UTI or something or acute pain relief, we may be working for the duration for a much shorter time. And the dosage may be higher for something acute, too, because we're working with that formula or those plants for a shorter period of time. So that can often be the case for things like cough or cold and flu-related symptoms. We may do a little bit higher dose because we're only doing it for three days or four days or something like that.

I feel like it's such an art. And as someone who makes plant medicines, it invites in that chemistry and that understanding of the constituents as well. Also considering taste and ease of working with the plants when we're considering dosage, preparation, duration. So taste being more of the energetics, but also taste being like, what are people going to work with? If we're prescribing a tincture and the person truly cannot tolerate the taste, and we know taste can be important, and we can work through that in so many different ways, we have our practices for helping mitigate that. But if a person can't take it, then that's not going to be something that we want to work with them. Also, considering that not everyone wants to work with alcohol or is able to work with alcohol. When we consider preparation and even dosage, because preparation impacts dosage, we'll want to consider what people are able to access and what they're able or wanting to work with. And so while a tincture may be a really great option, we may have to move into something like capsules for ease of use or a glycerite. I know some people don't love glycerites. It depends on the plant for me. Sometimes I do love a milky oat glycerite. So good. So it is so individualized and really can depend on so many different factors, but I guess the take home really is getting to know the dosage, duration, and preparation for the intended impact or intentions and effects that one is seeking when they're working with the plants to ensure that there's that alignment there in what they're working with.

I love that you brought up taste as part of client or in your case, patient compliance, because this is such a huge part of getting herbs into folks. Taste directly correlates to energetics and how those plants are going to be impacting the unique individuals. We use these, as herbalists, as guides. I am curious how you use energetics to build a plan for the unique individuals that you see.

Yeah. It's so important, taste and energetics. Of course, they go together. So taste can inform us on a plant's energetics. And for listeners, energetics meaning more, as I'm sure many know, temperature. So hot, cold, dry, moistening. So when we're speaking of energetics, it's more from that lens and not energetics as in spiritual and metaphysical, which I sometimes use interchangeably and it can get confusing. I try to make that distinction. Then taste can inform us of those energetics. But also taste can mean, do we like the taste of it? Which is also so important. In naturopathic medical school, we also study traditional Chinese medicine. For me, that really impacted my view on practicing herbalism and practicing with plant medicine, and of course, also TCM. I would often pair acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine theory with herbal formulas. It really gave me that foundational understanding of matching the herbal energetics with the energetics of the person acutely and then more constitutionally or more foundationally within the person. It is everything, I think. Maybe not everything, but it's important. I think it's something that is often overlooked or can be overlooked. We see sometimes, especially on social media or in those aspects of herbalism where someone may be like, "This herb is for everyone, and everyone must work with this plant." Usually, it's related to marketing. Everyone must work with this plant for this condition or this symptom, and it's going to benefit everyone. There may be plants that are really supportive for many people and maybe amazing for so many people and maybe amazing for so many people, but really, we can actually cause more imbalance if we're not also considering the energetics of the plant. For example, like many, like nervine herbs can be a little bit more cooling. People who are coming in or maybe experiencing more anxiety or insomnia, lack of sleep, like those types of things, working long term with some of the nervine herbs that are more cooling, if they already have a more cold, maybe even cold, damp constitution or presentation over a period of time can actually cause more of an imbalance. And so we see this when sometimes people are like, "Oh, I need even more," and then maybe it stops working or different things like that. It's because while those plants and those medicines may be supportive short term, if we're not looking at the energetics and if we're not supporting those root causes or foundational aspects, then we can actually cause more disharmony within our bodies. I see this a lot. Also, I feel like perimenopause is a big topic right now for so many. Sometimes I see herbs being shared of everyone needs to work with this plant if they're in perimenopause, and it may be really drying, and there may be already some dryness and some heat. If you're working with that plant long term and you already have symptoms of dryness or even some dry heat, and you're working with that plant for a while, then that's going to cause even more imbalances. That's not really to discourage because sometimes it can be overwhelming or confusing. Then it's like, "Okay, well, what do I do?" And so oftentimes we see this more long term. So it's not to discourage people from working with plants and working with, again, an herbal infusion or going in the kitchen. But I think it is a beautiful place to start in learning about herbal medicine and learning about working with the plants. And we can do that in the kitchen as well and creating balanced energetics in our foods. But it's more so to be aware that if we're going to work with plant for an extended period of time or for example, five to seven days a week, every day, that we really need to also be mindful of the energetics. Of course, we can balance that, too. That's another reminder to not be discouraged, that we can balance the formula once we begin to understand the ways that the plants interact in those energetics. Then we can also just balance the formula. If we really want to work with a specific herb and it's really drying. We can also add in some moistening herbs, or we can add in some moistening foods to our diet, and we can look at those foundational things of maybe adding more humidity to the air or things like that. There's ways that we can also balance the energetics while still working with the plants that we feel really called to working with, too.

The thing I love most about herbal energetics is the idea that these are qualities found within plants that we can inherently know through organoleptic evaluation. All we have to do is experience these plants through our senses and really listen in to our bodies. If something feels really warming, and then we're taking it for a longer period of time, and we're going to want to consider balancing it with cooling. It's that simple, right? I love it. So thank you for sharing your thoughts on that. I would love to move into talking about something that's really important in our society these days, and that is burnout and stress and how you see us building resiliency to just decrease the feelings of stress and burnout that are so prevalent, and if you have any top herbs for this application.

Yes. It's such an important topic, and it goes so much with what we've been sharing about and talking about with overwhelm as well. And burnout is such a huge thing right now, and of course, stress. And so I think before delving into some of the plants and practices is also remembering that we can't always remove external stressors. And so there's this idea sometimes, and even we see this with practitioners sometimes of like, "Well, you have to reduce your stress." And when we remember societal and collective impacts of stress and that we may each move through the world differently and have different stressors, like in the home, in our work environment, in the world, or globally, collectively, we can't always control that stress, and we can't always remove the stress. I think this is where these practices and plant medicines and these different tools can be really supportive to help us actually navigate the stress and mitigate the stress's impact on our bodies. There are so many practices that help us to... And plant medicines that help our bodies manage the stress and reduce the symptoms that stress can have so that our bodies are more resilient and more able to handle the stress that comes with moving within these systems and living at this time.

So some foundational aspects that can really help us in building resiliency. The plants are, of course, beautiful at this as they are so resilient. So just spending time outside, as I keep returning to, of just spending time with the plants, spending time with the land, spending time outside, can actually help our mood. There's so many different clinical studies that show that just spending time outside can increase dopamine, can increase serotonin, can reduce cortisol, reduce blood pressure. Listening to water sounds can actually help to align our heart rate and reduce high blood pressure or a high heart rate. We often forget about these simple practices, and we want to go straight into the really complex things of we need to take all of this stuff, which can be supportive, but really coming back to the land and even coming back to our breath, our heart, and being in relationship can be so foundational for helping us remember that that resiliency is within us and that we are held. I think that's such a foundational one, too, of remembering that we are held by the Earth and that the plants are here to also hold us and support us as we connect and care for the land and care for the plants. Those are foundational. Spending time outside. If we're able to move our bodies and go for a walk, that can be supportive, but even just sitting, gardening, tending to the plants and the land. Of course, so many teachings come through that as well.

I also love the practice of herbal body oiling. That can be adding in therapeutic plants to support our nervous system or to ease pain relief. Then it's that beautiful act of caring for ourselves and adding that protective oil barrier and soothing. I really love seaweed, and cedar, mugwort body oil right now. Of course, that can help to soothe our nervous system and increase that sense of care that we have, which can be an intentional practice to reduce burnout. I also love working with warm, nourishing fatty herbal drinks as if we're leaning more of that really burnout-deficient, exhaustive state. Some of those really fatty herbal drinks with that warming energetics can really be supportive. I love making an herbal latte with full fat, like coconut milk, and maybe some yin supportive adaptogens like shatavari and rose, cardamom, ashwagandha. So yummy. Having that with the full fat coconut milk or adding some coconut oil in with maybe some maple syrup or honey. That can really support our hearts as well as our physical being, our endocrine system, as well as our emotional well-being, because we're taking time. I think that's an important aspect of burnout prevention, too, is that intentionality of connection and presence. Even taking the time when it feels like we don't have any time. Of course, this can be challenging if there's chronic illness or chronic fatigue in place. Sometimes we can maybe prepare some things ahead of time to have, or maybe someone can prepare them for us, or we can prepare them for others. But it's that intentionality of crafting something for ourselves or others and receiving that that can also help with burnout as it, again, brings in that relationality and focuses on our relationships.

Other than the yummy herbal full fat drinks, I really also love seaweed. I've mentioned seaweed a few times. Seaweed, nettle, turkey tail, eleuthero, milky oats, and shatavari. Those are some of my staple burnout prevention and emotional resilience, physical resilient plants that I really love working with and that goes so beautifully in different applications, whether we're working with them in more of the therapeutic doses, as we've discussed, or whether we're bringing them into the kitchen and making nourishing foods and nourishing drinks and soups and stews, or even in baths and having a seaweed nettle bath and those types of practices to support our nervous systems.

I love the intentional care practices that you have outlined here with herbs. Dr. Jacqui. You also mentioned working with some of the medicinal mushrooms that we see in herbal practice. I have a question about immune system support and how you work to boost our immunity through herbs and nutrition as a physician.

Yes. Also another important aspect is supporting the immune system. Of course, we sometimes think of the immune system as just preventing colds and flu. But I think also remembering that our immune system plays a vital role in chronic inflammation. We're seeing chronic inflammation in so, so many people. When we support the immune system, we're also supporting that inflammatory response and supporting so many different illnesses that we may not even always associate with the immune system because the root cause is really being chronic inflammation. That is foundational to when we talk about immune system, I always like to mention that because it's not just preventing colds and flu. We're not just boosting our immune system. We're wanting to create balance and harmony within our immune system. Also understanding, as we've mentioned, a few different ways of the collective impacts of chronic stress and grief, as we know during times of grief and especially bereavement, but we know grief extends wider than just bereavement, that it impacts our immune system. Specifically, there are so many studies, but one in particular showed that lymphocytes were impacted as well as NK cells being reduced. Even just things like grief and chronic stress, bereavement, these things can, of course, impact and weaken our immune system. When we're considering supporting the immune system. I like to mention this as we also look at the emotional health, the relational health, the collective health.

In traditional Chinese medicine, the meridians most closely associated with our immune system would be the spleen, the kidneys, and also the lungs. If we look at the emotions of that, there's the grief in the lungs, and then we have fear in the kidneys, and then we have worry in the spleen. Looking at those aspects and those emotions when we're also thinking about, okay, how do we strengthen our immune system? Is also looking at those functions, organ functions, and then also the emotional well-being that we have within those meridians as well, which I know is a wider topic and maybe a bit further out than we were hoping to go. But I think it's important because we sometimes just focus on plants that boost the immune system or support the immune system. But it's a reminder how much it's all interconnected. While we can symptomatically support the immune system, again, we're looking at those foundational pieces of supporting our whole bodies so that we're able to have that resilience to be able to, for lack of better words, fight or move against, stop whatever the pathogens are that are coming in.

For nutrition, I'd say my number one recommendation is probably eating warm, nourishing foods, especially in the colder months, so not having like, iced drinks and like really cold foods. So our spleen really loves easy digestion and soup, stews, warming, nourishing foods like that can be really supportive for foundationally supporting our immune system. Of course, it depends on the time of year, but for colder months, that's usually what I would suggest nutritionally, and of course, so much from there. Then also, if possible, which brings in food accessibility and scarcity and all of those aspects, but limiting processed foods if we're able to, limiting processed sugar, ensuring adequate protein intake. When we have an acute infection, our protein needs actually go up. We really want to ensure that we're getting adequate protein, which so many of us aren't or we forget. Just ensuring we're getting protein, adequate nutrition. Of course, vitamin C and vitamin D, which I know are not herbal-focused. I mean, some plants do have vitamin C, but they are important. Of, of course, getting vitamin D levels tested, depending on where you live, too, as we can actually get too much vitamin D.

As far as more specific interventions for plant medicines, I really love coming back to simple. Our bodies really love simple, too, supporting our overall vitality with like, nutritive herbs and tonic herbs or adaptogens that are specifically indicated for the person. I really love a combination of astragalus, turkey tail and eleuthero together, making an electuary, with maybe some cinnamon in there can be really delicious. And mixing that and even just some hot water can be really supportive in supporting our overall vitality, nourishing and supporting our immune system, as well as just having warm herbal infusions going. So oftentimes I'll just make a big pot. So either I'll get my crockpot out and have that going or just a big pot and just have whatever herbs are really calling. So right now, lately, it's been an infusion of red dates, astragalus, licorice, nettle, ginger, calendula, kelp, and sometimes I'll add in some spearmint or some catnip in there towards the end, and I just drink that throughout the day. It's just a reminder that those simple practices can be really supportive for our immune system, and of course, bringing in more acute support and and prevention as needed. But some of those aspects can be really helpful as well as steam inhalations. So working with those kitchen herbs that we have, like a thyme and rosemary steam inhalation for just keeping the mucus membranes moistened and able to have that barrier to prevent illness as well can be a really simple and beautiful practice, too, and one that connects us to the plants.

So many important messages in there. Dr. Jacqui, thank you. As we know, health support with herbs is growing. The botanical products industry is huge. I would love to hear if you have any words of caution for our listeners when they're beginning to navigate that landscape.

Yeah. It is such a huge topic and is such an important one and can be so confusing using for so many people just starting out and can be overwhelming. I think especially as we're seeing with the increased use of AI, I think many of us have seen as herbalists, as practitioners, AI writing herb books or AI giving harmful recommendations or mislabeling a plant, and it can actually cause a lot of harm. I think really, one, overall, strengthening our ability to discern is really important. And so that discernment of where is this information coming from and what is the quality of this information? I think that is really important, especially with AI, with social media, with more of the influencer, with culture, and also even with the billion-dollar industry that is supplements and natural healing formulas. I think I think that understanding where the information is coming from is important, which is also related to learning from experienced teachers and learning from experienced herbalists, learning from experienced practitioners, learning from elders, people who have experience in working with the plants. There's a difference between, as we know, reading something in a book, and books are so vital. I have a few around holding the computer up as I just grabbed them, and I've learned much from so many different teachers and mentors throughout my life and continue to, as we're always learning about the plants. But there's a difference between reading something and taking it in and never practicing it and just regurgitating that info as the truth. And while it may be true, without that embodied knowing, there can be a miscommunication or there can be ways of sharing that aren't

encapsulating the whole aspect of whatever we're trying to share. I think learning from experienced people and people who actually are working with herbs, whether that's community herbalism, kitchen herbalism, clinical herbalism, really knowing our teachers and who we're learning from. Of course, also learning from the plants directly is important.

Also, going back to the industry of herbal supplements and things like that is understanding where we're purchasing from. Really similar to understanding where the information is coming from, learning from experienced teachers is also knowing where the plants are coming from and knowing the ethics of maybe the manufacturer or the company that we may be purchasing from and making sure that they're reputable, that the plants are what they say they are because that happens, too, that herbal supplements are sold and they don't actually have what they say they're supposed to have in them. Then also that the herbs are worked with and harvested in a sustainable and ethical way is another really important aspect when considering where we're purchasing or what plants we're working with.

I think another recommendation is, as I mentioned before, getting to know the herbs that are growing around us and deepening those relationships. Then, of course, learning from people with experience and learning from our environment and strengthening that intuition and that discernment that we have to know when something is off or something isn't quite right, and being discerning with social media in general and what we see on social media. I think learning from the plants themselves and from experienced teachers is such a huge part of really utilizing herbal products in today's landscape. So thank you for sharing, Dr. Jacqui, and, as always, having discernment.

I think that this ties directly into the utilization of herbal products in today's the ability or lack of ability to collaborate with your doctor on the use of herbs. Do you have any steps or advice for folks who are working with herbs and trying to communicate with their doctors about the usage from your physician's perspective?

Yes, it can be challenging, as we know. It can be really challenging. I find health care, it's such a broad topic and more of like Western health care medical doctors. There are medical doctors who are open to plant medicine, to herbal medicine. If we're able to pick and choose who we work with, that's a great place to start. If we're able to work with a medical doctor who is open, then that is amazing. Then sometimes we're going to work with medical doctors who aren't open at all and who will brush off herbs and say, "Herbs don't work. There's no therapeutic value, and also they're dangerous." I always laugh a little bit of that. Well, if they don't work, how are they also dangerous? If they're not doing anything, how are they also? We come across that sometimes. In those cases, it might not be possible to work with our medical doctors.

In that case, and in most cases, I would suggest if you're able to work with a naturopathic doctor, that can be really supportive because as naturopathic doctors, we are trained as primary care physicians. In many states and provinces, we can actually prescribe pharmaceuticals, we can run labs, we can do bloodwork, we can do all of these things. And of course, we're trained in herbalism and botanical medicine. And so it's all woven together. And so we can create comprehensive plans, and often we can collaborate with medical doctors on a patient's behalf. So we can send a letter or call or communicate to ensure that there is a continuity of care within the patient's treatment plan and that there aren't any interactions and that everybody's on the same page so that the person is getting the best care, the most optimal care possible.

Of course, sometimes that isn't possible to either see an MD or to work with an MD who's open to even naturopathic medicine. In those cases, it's individual. It can be really frustrating and really hard. I wish I had better advice of how to navigate that because I think it's so We can begin to learn more about plant medicine and herbalism and ensure that we don't have any interactions. But if pharmaceuticals maybe are involved, it is important to also understand. So maybe we're able to work with an herbalist or... I know there's so many community herbalists and these that can support even a quick 30-minute appointment to go over and see if there are any contraindications or things like that can be supportive if that's within the person's scope. Depending on where people are, it may not be within the scope. Yeah, it's hard. It's really hard. I wish that there was more collaboration, and I wish that medical doctors were more open because they don't have the training in herbal medicine. That's a whole other thing. I think that that is a key point. If we had doctors being more educated in botanical medicine, which let's remember, 150 years ago was at the forefront of medical practice in general, we would see much more collaboration and the capability of understanding the physiological impacts that herbs can have. That is definitely one shift that we would like to see in medicine, I imagine, Dr. Jacqui.

I would love to hear if you have any other changes that you would like to see shift in the medical landscape in regards to the use of herbs.

Yeah. I mean, there's so many. There's so many. That's a huge one. Collaboration is such a big one because I don't necessarily think... I mean, this is a larger discussion and people may have different opinions, of course, but medical doctors studying herbalism, I don't know if that's really the answer because most medical doctors are quite taxed and stretched and overwhelmed, I think, as it is. I think collaborating with naturopathic doctors, with herbalists, and other practitioners would be a really great step for seeing shifts in medicine and actually moving towards a model of health and healing overall. I would say also less green allopathy and working with the plants in their wholeness and not necessarily working with the plants as we would with pharmaceuticals. And so I see this a lot of plants being standardized into a single constituent and being worked with more as a pharmaceutical. That's not to say that I don't think that that has a place, like berberine, for example, in a capsule form. I think that there can be benefits there and there can be a place for that. But if that's the only way we're practicing, I think it can create more of a disconnect and really shifts away from our connection with the plants and our connection with the Earth as the plants, of course, work synergistically. I love plants, for example, like hypericum, where it's challenging. Scientists want to figure out the one constituent that they can bottle and extract. Of course, that fits in with corrupt capitalism and more of a colonial framework of like, let's just take this one, and then we're just going to use that. They really haven't been able to because there are so many different constituents that work synergistically together and that create a different impact than if you took one of those constituents out of the plant and worked with that single constituent on their own in the body. Of course, plants interact differently in the body than they do in a dish, too. That can be challenging with plant medicine and research and clinical applications as well. But I would like to see more of that and, I guess, of a merging of that way, of everything we've discussed of the clinical evidence-based science merging with the traditional uses of plants, honoring indigenous stewards, honoring the lineages that the plants come from, the land, and how they're harvested, how they're made, and merging all of that together into a truly holistic way of relating and bringing health to ourselves and also to the planet and all the beings here. Those are a few, but there's always more.

Thank you so much, Dr. Jacqui, for sharing all these wonderful perspectives that you have from your physician's view on building health with herbs and all the other foundations that you spoke of. I would love to share with our audience where they can find you out in the world and any other opportunities that they have to learn from you or to interact with your plant medicine.

Yeah, thank you. I have social media, Instagram, so Among the Wildflowers or Xálish medicines are two places that I post often and love sharing there and connecting with people there as we get to connect a bit more. You can also find Xálish Medicines on my website, which is just www. xalishmedicines. com You can find the courses, plant medicines, and a little bit more about my work. I also teach courses and do various workshops. In the springtime, one of the courses I love so much is Grow Your Own Medicine, and it weaves so much of what we've talked about into offering of energetics and tending to the Earth, as well as getting to know the plants and how to work with them for therapeutic effects. You can find that or exploratory herbal mentorship, which often launches in the fall. That's where we really work with the plants from an energetic lens and work deeply with taste and plant spirit, medicine and connection. Those are a few ways that we can stay connected.

Thank you so much, Dr. Jacqui, for your teachings today. It has been an honor to learn you. Thank you.