She Was Experimented on at Epstein’s Zorro Ranch — What Did They Do to Her?

We are going to be talking to a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein. Juliet, uh, Juliet Bryant is a South African survivor. Um, she was trafficked at the age of 20. Now, don't say, "Well, she was an adult. It was consensual." People get trafficked as adults all the time. Um, they are promised an opportunity that ends up not being that opportunity, and they're taken across, uh, country lines, and the next thing they know, they're kind of trapped. That is her experience that she is going to share with us tonight, how she was enticed at the age of 20 into what she thought was going to be a modeling job, which ended up not being a modeling job at all, while she was, um, in the clutches of Jeffrey Epstein. She has been, she was on the island. She went to Zoro Ranch. She saw a lot of really bizarre things. She smelled bizarre things. She, um, had bizarre experiences. We're going to talk to Juliet Bryant tonight about her experience with Jeffrey Epstein, with the people that trafficked her. Uh, it is going to be a very interesting interview. I ask you to keep an open mind when you listen because some of the things you're about to hear are going to be quite wild. I'm not going to lie. But, um, stick with us to the end, and I, and then, and then, you know, we'll process it together. But, um, so let's go ahead and get to it. Juliet, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much, Kim, um, for having me on. I'm really grateful to you and to everyone listening, and just thank you, you know, for fighting for justice.

Well, thank you for your bravery. Um, many people, uh, are afraid. Many people have been victims and have not spoken out, not just of Jeffrey Epstein, but of others. And it's always good for people to hear from people who have gone through the same experiences. Um, let's start from the beginning. So, how did you meet Jeffrey Epstein? Where were you? You said you were recruited. Tell us about that.

Of course, Kim. And I just want to apologize. I look messy. Sorry. I, I'm just self-conscious. And, um, and also I haven't had much sleep recently. There's been so much going on with all the files being released. So I just want to apologize to any viewers, um, for my messy hair and sorry.

And don't worry about that.

Don't worry about that. We're not, we're not judgy. Thank you so much. Standing also single mom. But, um, you know, I met Epstein, um, in 2002. What happened is, um, a girl called Naja Hill approached me at, um, a restaurant bar where they were like, they had free drinks for models. So obviously, a lot of models used to attend this place, you know, as young people without a lot of money. So it's almost like they were, um, scouting around for people that, you know, were, that from, you know, it's, it's quite clear that they are predators. Um, I didn't know, um, her obviously at the time, but she approached me and she said that, um, she, her friend was here from America. His name was Jeffrey Epstein, and he was here with Bill Clinton and Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker. She said that he owned his own island in the Caribbean, and he was like the king of America. And she said that his best friend, Leslie Wexner, owned Victoria's Secret, and it would be a very good idea for me to meet them because it could, like, really help with my modeling career. Um, at the time, I was actually studying psychology and philosophy. Um, I was doing modeling on the side, you know, to earn income, and I mean, when this opportunity, like, was given to me, it just seemed like all my dreams were coming true. Um, you know, just, cuz obviously my, my main aim is to help people, and that's what I always wanted to do with, um, you know, I wanted to do art therapy with kids. That was my whole plan. But I want to also make the money, um, so I could do this. So it seemed like my second dream, you know, is what I'm saying.

What, what year was this?

It was in 2002. I have an idea. Um, I actually met them on the 26th of September, 2002. And I'll share, um, a picture of my diary entry where you can see that, because I've, I've got my diary from that year. It's a very messy diary, but you can see, you know, I wrote it in pencil how I'd met them. And I was so excited, cuz I really thought that, um, you know, my family were all struggling financially, and, and I just thought it would really make a big difference for our family and for, you know, what I, what my plans were in life. But, um, so we went from there to meet them at a restaurant. Um, it was Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, and Chris Tucker and Epstein. Obviously, I'd never even heard of Epstein. You know, I was, I was more interested to see, like, these people like Bill Clinton and Kevin Spacey. You know, he was a very famous Hollywood actor at the time. I mean, he's still famous, but I mean, in those days, he was particularly famous, you know, he made, like, American Beauty in 1999, which was a very famous film. Um, so anyway, um, I met them, and they all stood up. They were having dinner, and they stood up during dinner and shook my hand. And even, like, Bill Clinton, when he, when he met me, he, like, went like this and shook my hand, and then he started, um, he started talking to someone else. So he was shaking my hand, and he started just talking to someone else for, like, two minutes, and then eventually he, like, um, let go, and he's like, "Nice to meet you." So I was like, holding on to the, this president, ex-president's hand, like, you know, I'd never met anyone famous in my life. So I was just like, I was completely starstruck, to be honest.

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As a young girl from Africa, this was just, it wasn't the normal sort of thing, you know, but it just seemed like all my dreams were coming true because I was always a positive thinker, and I was like, really hoping that, you know, I was going to do well in life, and it seemed like my dreams were coming true. Um, anyway, so after we left there, um, Naja Hill, who, who apparently became a news, a Fox News reporter later on, I never saw her again after all of this, but, um, what happened is she phoned me and she said that Epstein would like to see my modeling portfolio, um, because, you know, he's scouting for models, but would I like to come watch Bill Clinton's speech, um, before the modeling casting? So I was like, "Oh my gosh, of course." You know, I'd love to come and watch the speech. I thought that they were philanthropists coming here to help in Africa, you know, um, coming from Africa. It's, people have a hard, you know, there's a lot of poverty here, and I, I really believe that they were good people, you know, which makes it all even so much more sad. But, um, yeah, so what happened is we went to watch the speech, um, at the, uh, lower income university in Cape Town. It was the Western Peninsula Technicon. And while the speech was going on, um, you know, it was like a very low-income hall, like a low-income university, sorry. It was like a very basic hall. It's not the kind of place where you would imagine Bill Clinton to be giving a speech at all. Like, you know, there's a little podium, and then we were sitting on, like, white plastic chairs. And Kevin Spacey was actually sitting in front of me. There were a whole lot of students behind us. And as the speech was going on, Kevin Spacey sat in front of me with his handheld device, which was unusual in that day, going at this. He was filming everyone, and I was feeling uncomfortable because I was sitting behind him. So I was like, "Why is this man filming me?" But I just thought that it was for their cause, you know. I thought that they were doing, um, charity work and helping in Africa, and, and that Kevin Spacey was part of it. You know, we were a lot more naive back then, of course. You know, um, the internet wasn't so, you know, we couldn't Google things as we can now, and there wasn't so much truth out. So people really trusted these people. So, um, I didn't find it strange then. I, I was obviously, like, starstruck by it all, but I didn't find it weird. But obviously, all these years later, I find it very strange that he was filming all the students in the hall. It was also very unusual for someone to even have a device that could do that in that day, cuz, you know, um, back in the day in 2002, most people didn't have little devices that could film. Like we can all do it now on our phones.

But we've got to remember, like, back in the day, it was unusual.

Right?

And there's even a video where he's like bragging about his handheld device that he bought to Africa. So it's like, you know, it, like, it just puts everything I'm saying into perspective. It's basically, I'm not, I'm not, you know, I'm saying it as it was. So, um, you know, after that, we went back to the hotel, you know, after this whole speech, and then, um, they said, "Right, I can bring in my modeling portfolio to show Epstein." So I went, and then three girls posed as modeling agents. They also, they worked with Karen modeling agency. It was Sarah Kellen, Andrea Mitch, and Cindy Lopez. They sat there, and they looked through my modeling book, and, you know, they, this is a horrific thing. They, they actually lied. I mean, they all lied. It's, and like, who could sit there and just lie like this? Anyway, they, sorry, this is, you know, they looked through my modeling book, and then they said, "Okay." And then while they were doing looking through my modeling book, but, and I was so nervous, cuz I was like, "Oh, these professional modeling agents," you know, I was like a scared young person. I was, I was only just turned 20 years old. Um, you know, some people say, "Oh, well, you're 20, you should have known what you were doing." But the thing is, when you're given a sort of like opportunity by people in positions of power like this, I think even people who are 50 years old would fall for it. You know, a good friend of mine who's, she said she would have, you know, believed it, you know, especially back in the day. So, um, you know, while they were looking through my, my modeling book, Bill Clinton walked past me, like, um, behind me, and he went into, like, another room on the side. So, it's almost like they were sharing an adjoining, um, hotel suite, like the executive suite, you know, which has, like, two rooms. Like, I didn't see the bedrooms, but I'm assuming that they were, it looked like they were sharing a sort of suite. And so, Bill Clinton basically, he witnessed the modeling casting going on, and he was like, "Hi, everyone." And he walked past behind me and walked into the room behind. Um, so, you know, that made it seem even more legitimate, of course. And then, um, I was told to go through and see Epstein, and, you know, he looked through my modeling book, and then he said, "Right, I think you'd be perfect for Victoria's Secret. You know, we want to bring you to America." And, you know, um, so after I left their bestie, his office started phoning me, Leslie Grath, um, you know, who worked in Epstein's office. They said they wanted to bring me over there for modeling, and they arranged me a visa and a passport, cuz I'd never left the country. I didn't even have a passport or anything, you know. They helped to arrange me a passport and a visa. And basically, within three weeks, they had me there. Um, and, you know, what happened? Sorry, I'm sorry that this is such a long story to tell again, but, but I think it's important for viewers to, cuz I, I have told people this, I mean, on interviews, but I know that every viewer needs to know the background. So, um,

Yeah.

What happened is when I arrived, um, in New York, there was a, a man waiting for me. He had, like, he had a board with my name on it, and I was like, "Oh my god." I was like, "Oh my," it made me feel like, "Oh my god, I'm going to be a celebrity." You know, I was young and I was dumb. Okay.

Juliet, let, let's just back up for just a second here, though. You, so you're in this room. There's the three, you're in a hotel suite. The three girls who are saying they're modeling agents. You've got famous people walking around. Like, I mean, this adds to legitimacy. Even today, like you said, this doesn't matter if it was 2002. If this happened to somebody today where a former president is in the room and famous actors, you can't help but to think, of course, this is legit. I mean, this must be legit because it's the former president of the United States and these famous actors. Obviously, this is not a scam. I mean, that would be in anybody's mind, no matter, like you said, even if they're 50 years old, anybody would think this is obviously legit. So then they say to you, so then, clear, first, first of all, were there other girls that they were recruiting at the same time? Were there others that were with you at the restaurant?

That's the thing, they were not,

Casting, you know. Um, and at the time, like, I, I just thought that they, like, you know, sometimes with castings, they like sort of time things well so that one girl comes in and out, cuz usually at modeling castings, you'll see about 300 girls. I mean, I know because I did modeling, um, you know, I mean, after that.

Right.

I mean, I.

And then they say to you.

And then they say to you, "Okay, we want you." So and then from, and then you said that you got to New York, but between then and New York, like, how quickly were they like, "Okay, we want you, flying you to New York"?

Um, well, what happened is, um, his office started phoning immediately after I'd met him, um, that, that day, cuz, you know, they left that day, cuz they weren't in, um, in Cape Town for very long, and then his office started phoning. Leslie Gra called, and she said, you know, well, she basically helped to arrange the visa and, um, my passport, cuz I also told them that I don't have money, like, you know, to support myself while I'm there. I don't have money for a ticket, but they said, "No, um, they're going to pay for everything, but they'll deduct it from my, you know, they'll deduct the expenses from my income when I, when I arrive there and start working." So, you know, that may obviously.

So, this was, so you said two weeks.

Yeah, it was.

So, you said it was like a two-week.

You're now telling all of your friends and family members, I would imagine, like, "You won't believe what happened to me."

Yeah.

Like, "Dream come true. I met the former president of the United States and Chris Tucker and Kevin Spacey, and these modeling agents want me, and now they're flying me to New York, and what, and I'm going to move to the United States of America." I mean, this is, this must have been the most exciting time of your life.

I really, really, um, you know, I really believed that, like, all my dreams were coming true, and, you know, I really wanted to obviously help my family, and it, you know, it actually just makes me so sad, um, thinking back on it now, like, as a young person, what happened, and also, like, the way it affected my mind so badly after being kidnapped there, and, you know, basically, like, it took me years to unravel the, um, the psychological hold he had over me. And,

Yeah, but, um, so, so basically, yeah, they had me there very quickly, and, you know, I arrived there on the 17th of October.

So you're, so you're, okay. So, so you're super excited, and now they've done it. You booked your flight. You've packed your bags.

And they're saying, "We're going to take care of you, and you just pay us back out of your earnings. You're fine. Don't worry about it." And they, and this, by the way, I just want to clarify this. Um, I don't know a ton about the modeling world, but I do know enough to know that this is actually pretty normal, actually, um, for modeling agencies to recruit women all around the world.

And they do bring them to New York, and they usually live in, like, a model house where they live together.

And they, and, and they'll, you know, the modeling agency will put them up in the house and kind of get them ready, and maybe even give them trainings and photo shoots, you know, initial photo shoots in order to get their portfolios together. And so this isn't like totally out of the normal for the experience of real legitimate modeling agencies and models.

You're totally right, Kim. And that's another subject that I want to touch on a lot is that a lot of young girls are taken overseas, you know, um, especially from, like, families where they're struggling financially, you know, and a 14-year-old gets sent, sent overseas, and it's frightening what happens. Um, you know, I mean, like I said, with the modeling I did years later, I saw the modeling agencies sort of scamming models, basically. Um, you know, I couldn't do anything about it at the time, cuz I was a young, a young, um, person. But I could see that they were, like, they would rent an apartment and then, like, cram six models in there and charge all the models, like, basically the month's rent each. You know, they, they were like, a lot of these, like, and I, I really like that you're touching on that and exposing that, because I think a lot of people don't speak about this enough, um, you know, about young people being exploited like this, cuz even when I was 14 years old, they tried to scout me, Elite Models. Um, they found me at a market, and they, they wanted me to go to a modeling casting. I've got a newspaper clip, which, which I'll share with you from 1997. But my mother, um, came with me to the modeling casting, and her friend, cuz her friend also, you know, cared about me, and, and they said, "There's no ways that I'm allowed to travel or anything."

When my mom wouldn't anywhere.

You know, it's funny.

I had this, I had the same experience. They hoped I would be a lot taller than I am. I ended up not so tall, but, um, not tall enough to be a model. But when I was 14, same thing. I got scouted, and I was in Beverly Hills at the time, actually, and ended up getting scouted, and they wanted to do the same thing. They wanted to basically take me out of school,

Send me to New York, have me live in a house with a bunch of other models.

Um, luckily, though, you know, now looking back, my dad,

He spoke about it to them or to my mom, I'm not really sure, but exactly how it went down, but basically my dad was like, "Hell no, my daughter's not going anywhere. That's not happening."

Well, what an amazing. My dad wasn't around, so I didn't have that. But I, but I, and it's amazing that you understand.

Yeah. My dad was like, "You're going to be known for your mind, not for this, and we're not doing that. We're not sending you away some place in the middle of New York City." Like, it's just not happening. But it is a fairly common experience. I had when I did eventually live in New York City in my mid-20s, I did know a lot of models, and that is what they were. I mean, they were living in, uh, the modeling agencies in the, in the apartments that the modeling agencies put up.

Okay. So, so you're in this house in New York now. Um, they've sent you there. And who greeted you, by the way, like, when you get off the airplane? Was it the same lady that recruited you in South Africa?

No. Um, it was Epstein's driver, a man called Jojo. Um, you know, he had my, my name on a board, and then basically when I, um, so when I got off the airplane, you know, I'd never, ever traveled overseas in my life. I'd never traveled anywhere without my mom or my family. So, um, I, I barely slept on the flight, you know, it's like a 24-hour flight from South Africa to New York, you know, he used to stop in Senegal. It's a long flight. Um, so when this man was waiting for me there at the airport with my name on a board, I was like, "Oh my gosh." Like, you know, it made me feel like a celebrity. And it's so stupid. Like, it makes me feel so dumb these days to realize how I was conned so badly. But, um, basically what happened is after that, um, you know, he drove me to the apartment, East, um, 30166 Street. I'll share my diary entries so, you know, we can also add it if it's, um, helpful for people to see. Um, you know, so I was dropped off at the modeling apartment. I also had my list of everything I was going to pack. You know, you could see I, I wrote like, warm pajamas and my art stuff and my, um, I even packed a towel. You know, I was like a very naive traveler, cuz I thought, "Okay, I'm going to stay in New York at my own apartment. I must take a towel." Um, you know, I was really, really young and naive. Um, anyway, so then what happened is after I was dropped at the apartment, I sort of put my things down, and it was like, very overwhelming coming from Africa and being in New York, cuz like, I mean, New York's such an amazing, buzzing place. It was just like, very, like, nerve-wracking for someone who's never been there. You know, they sometimes they say, say, when when people from villages go to cities, it can actually make them go a bit crazy, but always, you know what I mean? It's, it's such a different lifestyle, and I was like, I was looking out the window, and I was like, "Oh my god, this place is like, so buzzing," and I was nervous, of course, but I was also so excited. And then the phone, there was a phone, um, in the apartment, and it started ringing, and I answered it. It was like, after about 10 minutes after I had arrived, and it was Sarah Kellen, and, um, she said, "Pack your things, like a small bag. We're going to the Caribbean." So I obviously assumed it was for, like, a modeling shoot. Um, you know, I didn't have a phone there. I didn't have any money, cuz they told me I didn't need money. So I was very much like, I couldn't, like, phone my parents or, like, you know, and say, like, "Oh, I'm going to the Caribbean." No one knew I was going there, basically. So I basically just had to, um, pack a smaller bag and leave the rest of my stuff in the, in that apartment. And like, that's the thing, in the Caribbean, the weather's very different. Like, I didn't have, like, bikinis or anything, like, you know, it was the weather's hot in, um, Caribbean. I was expecting to be staying in New York and working. So, um, so then the car came back, you know, to the apartment, and then they drove me to Tebra Airport, and, um, they, you know, the thing is, things weren't checked at these airports either when we traveled with Epstein, like, no passports were checked. They would have our passports, but like, no luggage. I didn't see any luggage being checked or anything like that.

So then, you know, the car drove me in, and then I got onto, um, the airplane. It was all so overwhelming, you know, to be honest. Like, as a young person, I, I'd barely ever been on an airplane, let alone, like, a private airplane. And then, um, when I got, I walked onto the airplane, and then Epstein was sitting in the front, and then the other two girls who had posed as modeling agents were sitting on the left-hand side of the plane, and Epstein, like, patted his chair next to him, like this, like, "Come sit next to me." Like, when I walked on the plane. So I was like, nervous. I was like, uh, but, you know, I believed, like, because he was with Clinton, you know, Clinton wasn't on that flight, of course, but,

But because I'd met him with Clinton, it seemed like I was very scared, but I didn't know what to do, you know, basically. I was like, and then, and then, um, as soon as the, like, the plane took off, he immediately started touching me forcibly between my legs, and I just freaked out, and I was like, "Oh my god, I suddenly realized this is not a modeling opportunity." And I re-realized that these people going to try to kill me. And I realized I had to do whatever they wanted in order to survive. And, and as he started touching me in between my legs, the other girls, like, I remember Sarah came and stood in front, and she was even talking to him while he did, and she just laughed. And I was just so scared. And I'm sorry, like, it was so hard talking about this part of things. So if you can take over it would be amazing for a bit, can, because it was just, it was so traumatic, to be honest. You know, just realizing, and I just want to add one more thing in quickly is that my name wasn't even put on that flight log. You know, all these years later, um, after the lawyers have looked into things, and I've had time to do more research, my name wasn't put on that flight log. So if I'd gone missing in the Caribbean, no one would have ever known what had happened to me. Then my family would have thought I gone missing in New York. And that brings into question every flight log. You know, that's why I'm speaking out for, for, for people, victims who, who don't have a voice, those alive and dead. And just, yeah, thank you for, for speaking, cuz, yeah, for helping, cuz I'm, yeah, it gets traumatic thinking about this. Thank you so much.

So, so when you get, when you got to New York, and you've got this driver, and he's taking you to, uh, an apartment, pretty much. So that very same day, they had you get on another flight, or was it the next day?

Yeah. No, it was that day, within, within five minutes.

So you're on the plane. Epstein is assaulting you, essentially. Um, the other people, how many other people were on the plane?

There were two girls there. It was Sarah Kellen and Andre Mitravich. Um, you know, the girls who had posed as modeling agents. The third girl wasn't there, but the, the two. Yeah. So I mean, I, I realized, um, you know, after all this time, that, you know, those, they lied. I mean, obviously, like, um, Epstein was a very bad criminal, but these girls also lied, and they laughed as he sexually molested me on the airplane, and it was horrific.

How were these other girls?

The ones that were.

Yeah. How old were they?

They were a little older than me. I mean, the thing is, I was 20. Um, I don't know how old the girl Andrea Matraich was, but I did see, um, later on, a friend of mine did research, and apparently her and her husband work for the Clinton Foundation. Um, Sarah Kellen was about 22, I think, at the time, not a lot older, you know, but, um, again, as a young model, when you go to a modeling casting, you know, you're just always hoping for the best. And I didn't, um, think, okay, um, you know, that they're a little bit young to be modeling agents, because actually, it's not too young to be a modeling agent.

You know, anyone can get any job after the age of 18. Like, I've done many jobs. I've worked at restaurants, you know, you know what I mean? You can get a job at a modeling agency anytime after the age of 18. So I, I basically completely believed them, um, you know, for the casting. But basically, when Epstein was like, started touching me, um, they laughed, and I just, I suddenly went into panic mode, and I real, I suddenly thought, "Oh my god, my family never going to see me again." And the horrible thing is that they, my family, they never saw me again as I had been before. That is the, is the horrible truth.

That is the truth, right, Juliet. Um, why did you immediately feel like, you know, right away that they would kill you? I mean, I think that, I think it's very understandable to think, "I'm going to be raped," right? Um, because if somebody's assaulting you, that is definitely the feeling. That is, that's the natural thinking of any woman at that point. What, what made you then think, "No, this is more serious. They might kill me"?

Um, just how powerful they were. And I suddenly realized that this was not for a modeling job, you know. I suddenly realized that this was something, something odd, darker. And, and yeah, sorry that, like, it just, it really petrified me so badly. And I know that a lot of other people have been put in positions like this, and that's why I'm speaking out because these people in positions of power should not be taking advantage of young people.

Right?

And, um, yeah, I just, I just, I, you know, I'm also a very sensitive person. I, I feel things, um, a lot, you know. Um, some people have even said I'm a psychic, but, but, you know, whatever. I'm not, you know, but, but, but the thing is, I just, I, I felt immediately that something very bad was about to happen to me.

And I was petrified, and I realized that I had to, um, do, do whatever they wanted to survive. I, I realized that. And I never worked with them, of course, as I've said, you know, they released a lot of my emails, the DOJ, and not all of them, actually. And that's another thing we need to shine light on, Kim, is that, um, a lot of the emails have not been released. You know, they released only the emails to make me look bad. Um, and, you know, it was a very selective release of the emails, because there were many more emails between Epstein and I over the years where he was like, email, he would like, email me out of the blue. And, you know, it just, the whole thing just really, um, messed with my mind psychologically. And, you know, also, um, like I've said before, before I was sent home, he told me he worked for the CIA. He said he had my family's name on a list, and he said that a girl who accused him of rape, he planted drugs in her apartment and had her sent to prison. So it, it put me into, like, a complete, like, um, fight or flight mode. And I, unfortunately, I've been stuck in that mode ever since, is the truth. But the people like you are helping me to get off that mode of fight or flight, you know, where I can actually build calm and.

You know, that's another thing I wanted to talk about is, like, you know, the, um, charity organization that I'm doing to, but just suddenly happened out of the blue to help people.

But we'll get, we'll get to that. You know, it's called Survivor Coin, and they're amazing people helping, and, you know, it's, we're really going to help people because that's what I wanted to do before Epstein came. And I'm sorry to go back and forth.

No, no, no.

Um, thanks so much, Kim.

Just so that we understand before we go further. So, you obviously went, uh, so you obviously went to the island. Did you also go to other, uh, any other Epstein property? He had properties all over. He had one in New Mexico, he had one in Florida, he had New York.

Of all, which places did you go to?

New York.

Yeah. They took me to P. They took me to, um, all the properties that we know of. Um, as far as known, they could have owned more. They took me to New York, New Mexico, Palm Beach, the island, and to Paris.

You went to all of them?

Yeah. By the time I, people ask why I went back there. The thing is, by the time I got home, I was very broken, and, um, you know, I just, I, I just didn't want to disobey him. I was petrified. And, and that's, that's just the truth. You know, I think a lot of people were very petrified of him.

And that, that goes for a lot of other bad people, too. You know, where, where young people are taken into positions, um, like this, where people are in positions of power, and they take horrible advantage of people, and they terrify them, and really mess with their heads. That's the truth. Sorry.

So, tell us. Okay. Um, of the property. So, how long were you around Epstein going to all of these different properties like before you?

It, it happened over a two-year period. Um, the first time they took me, cuz, you know, um, thank goodness the lawyers helped, you know, with getting my timeline all in order, and, you know, I've also got my passport, which proves, you know, where I was being taken, and everything. And that's another frightening thing is a lot of victims don't actually have evidence because if, if people weren't being flown across state borders, they might not have evidence. You, you know what I.

Um.

But, so tell us, so basically, the last time they took me there was in 2004, in July, and the last time they took me there was to New Mexico, and that was the most weird and frightening place of all. Sorry, I can't catch my breath. I get back. Sorry. Um, you know, I, I was hospitalized after this, um, you know, after everything that happened. I mean, I'm 43 now, but back then, like, I was taken to hospital. Like, I, I've never needed a hospital. I've never, you know, been terribly sick, but, but, but they, I had to, I was taken to hospital many times after this because I had severe panic attacks.

I couldn't breathe. I thought I was going to die.

I'm so sorry.

Doctor could never find anything wrong with me.

But, you know, I just know what, you know, I woke up in a lab there, you know, just to cut to the chase. You know, I know that it's such a, that's why we must do a follow-up interview because if, if there's time, um, you know, another time, because it's just so much to explain in such a short time.

Let's talk about the island, and let's talk about the New Mexico Zoro Ranch. Um, when you were on the island, what did you, did you see there was like that temple structure there? Can you tell us, did you ever go into that temple structure on the island?

Um, no. And it's, it's amazing that you brought that up because I always wondered why did I never see that temple, but then I, I did more research, and I saw the temple was only built after 2007. So, you see, I was there from 2002 and, um, to 2004. I, the island, I was only taken to in 2002 and 2003. So you never saw that because it didn't exist at that time.

And, and that's, that explains why, because it actually hadn't been built yet at the time that I was there.

Some other strange thing about that island is there's a room with a dentist chair and masks all on the wall of this room with the dentist chair. What did you see?

Okay. Did you visit a dentist while you were there? They sent me to Bright Smile, and I've actually even got the, I'll send you the photograph of the card. They sent me off to have my teeth made white. But that was in New York, cuz see, before I sent home after he threatened me, telling me he worked for CIA and everything, they, um, when I, they sent me to New York from there, and then I was sent to have my hair made blonde and have my teeth made white, and I'll share it so we can share it with everyone watching, you know, if it's, um, helpful.

Yeah. Yeah. But, um.

Did anything strange, I mean,

When you were on the island, then, um, so you didn't see this dentist chair or the, or that, you know, and maybe that stuff came later, like you said, the temple was built later.

What would you say? Main bedroom?

That's the scary thing. I was being taken room, but I didn't even see his main bedrooms at many of the properties. I wasn't like being taken to his main bedroom. I was being taken to like side rooms where I don't know, you know, that's the other creepy thing. Yeah.

And were you, when you were there, and I hate to, I'm sorry to ask pretty personal, probing questions,

But, um, obviously Epstein was basically, you know, creating an environment where powerful men would show up to the island or wherever and have sex with young, beautiful women. Some of them underage, some of them just very young. That's where they're lying. Um, I never saw any of that to my knowledge. That's where they're lying because they opened up the case of sex trafficking because, um, Virginia Guff, God bless her soul, and, um, Sarah Ransom, who's a very nasty person, um, they both said that they were made to have sex with Alan Dershowitz. So that's how the whole case was opened up as sex trafficking because we were being sex trafficked to Epstein, but I never saw any girls being trafficked to any other men other than than Epstein. The only men I met there at the properties were were scientists and also Michael Bay, the movie producer. I never saw any girl being trafficked to any other men. And that's why they're lying about this because, well, apparently that was happening on a smaller scale, but there was a bigger scale. Like, we all know these criminals have many branches to their organizations. And, um, I never saw any girl being trafficked to any high-power man. I never met anyone on the island, like, other than, like I said, um, you know, Epstein there, and Maxwell, and the staff, and the scientists, I met, but, um, you know, even, like, Bill Clinton, I met him in Africa when he was at the Epstein, but, but I didn't see any girl I met at least 60 girls, um, I saw 60 girls, like, coming and going over the time I was there. I never saw one girl being trafficked to another man. And also, we've got to look at the fact that Virginia Guff had the lawsuit against Prince Andrew, and she was awarded £12 million, you know. Um, but, but if there were more girls who'd had, um, sexual abuse from high-powered men, you would expect to see more lawsuits like that, right? I mean, it's just common sense, right?

Yeah, maybe. So, you're saying that the only man you had sex with during the time that you were around Jeffrey Epstein was just Jeffrey Epstein?

Well, I didn't have sex with him. He, he forced me to, you know. But, but yeah. Um, I was never, ever trafficked. Um, I was never made to have sex with any other man while I was there. Michael Bay did try to have sex with me in LA years later, you know, and that's why I've been mentioning his name, but, you know, he denies it. But, um, yeah, he, anyway, um, I, so yes, I, I never saw any girl being trafficked to any other man other than Epstein, but we all know they're lying. That's why they're doing this whole cover-up. And that's why with the file release, we're, we're seeing it quite clearly, right?

So then what do you think was, I mean, obviously you're saying that Jeffrey Epstein raped you numerous times, that you were forced to have sex with him, and you did not feel like you had the ability to leave the situation?

He couldn't even really have sex properly because, like, like many people have said, you know, I'm just going to put it as it is. His penis was about this size, and when, you know, it was very hard for, for the man to actually even have sex, but he was forcing orgasms. Like, he used to use, like, a massage vibration tool and put it on me, and all he wanted was for me to have an orgasm. It was very creepy, and I'd never had an orgasm before I'd been taken there. So, you know, it just, it really messed me up very badly, but whatever. You know, I'm alive, and that's all that matters. But yeah, basically, there's a lot, a lot more weird stuff going on.

Tell me about the weirdest.

So then on the island, tell, so focusing on the island, right? Right now, then I want to move over to Zoro Ranch because we've been investigating Zoro Ranch quite a bit. But what was the strangest thing? I mean, beyond, beside the abuse that you dealt with, what was the strangest thing that you saw while on the island?

Well, um, I've, I've said it before, you know, I saw Epstein shapeshift into another creature. It was like he almost turned into, like, a dragon, like, devil alien. And, you know, people have questioned me about this, and they're like, "Maybe they, those people drugged me, or maybe I was traumatized." I know what I saw. Um, you know, I was looking at it. It was when I was taken into the bedroom with him, and then, like, just after he was like, orgasming, I looked away, and then I looked back at him, and then suddenly it wasn't him anymore. It was like this big, like, um, sorry, he had like a big head with like, big alien eyes, and, and, like, big black eyes. And I was like, it was very, very frightening. Okay. And like, to my knowledge, I wasn't drugged, but again, like, with all these stories of Epstein, he's got zombie plants and everything, who knows, you know, what they could have done. But the thing is, I saw him turn into something else in front of my eyes, and then I looked away, and then I looked back, and it was him again. But I saw him, um, it was not him, um, when I looked back. And I've met many people over the years, um, you know, there have been times when, as a young person, I experimented with drugs, very stupidly, obviously, don't do drugs, but, like, there, on the rare occasion where I have tested the drugs when I was young, I never saw anyone turn into anything. But I saw him turn into something else in front of my eyes, and it was very frightening.

Did you feel like that other thing was an alien or a demon?

You know, at the time, I couldn't even put it all into perspective because I was so traumatized with the whole situation. And I.

Know, I never even like mentioned this or like, um, years later, my mom started like, my mom's a very spiritual person, and she started looking into David Icke, and she mentioned the reptilian theory. And then I was like, like, maybe that's what I saw. But, you know, I could never really explain, um, what I saw. But I, but I saw it, um, very obviously. And, and like I've said many times, I'd like to be lie detected on this. You know, I'd be very willing to do a lie detector test on what I saw.

Turn into. Did you see any exist? I mean, Trump's about to expose aliens, right? Like, Obama made a little bit of a slip up. And yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, like, when I, if people think we're the most intelligent creatures on this in space, on this planet, or on Earth, or wherever, you guys are wrong. They are far more intelligent people. Like, even look at the AI, how it works. They're supposed to be more intelligent than us. But I mean, Grock's a bit of a preschooler, but you know what I mean. Sorry.

So you see him turn into something else? Did you? Was there any other indicate? So, so let's just, let's go down this road. So Epstein's not a human. Um, something else. He's either a demon or he's an alien. Was there any other, any other like supporting, you know, behavior that he did or things that you saw or experienced that made you say, "Yeah, this guy's not human"?

Yeah. Um, well, you know, when I was taken to New Mexico, um, I went out to have a cigarette the one night, and then I saw like a UFO in the sky. It was very creepy. That's the day I also met Michael Bay, you know. And, um, there were these three like lights in the sky like a triangle. And then, and it's like nothing I've ever seen in my life. And I was just like, I got locked out of the house. And then, you know, I've got that flashback waking up in a lab with a female doctor and six people in hazmat suits working. And, you know, I've been speaking about this for many years. But, um, a lot of people, um, thought I was. But but now files.

I'm sorry, Juliet. Can you, can you back that up? What did you just say? You were in a lab and there were people around you wearing, what were they? Can you tell us this story? What, what was going on with that?

Um, well, well, the thing is, I just, I suddenly woke up. My eyes opened, and I was like, um, strapped down on a table. Um, I was paralyzed. I wasn't even strapped. I was, I couldn't move. Um, but my eyes opened and I couldn't talk. Um, but my eyes moved around and I just saw these people, um, you know, six people, like three down this this side and three down that side, like in hazmat suits. And they were very tall, but they had like, you know, the like a white, um, suit with a black thing here. So I couldn't see them. But, um, then a female doctor that I saw, um, quite, quite clearly. She was like a, you know, a very like, um, good-looking woman with like her hair was tied back. And, and she came to me and she said, um, "Don't worry, everything's okay." And then I, I went out again, like that. So, I mean, I was conscious in this place for about like, ten, five, about ten seconds, you know, you know what I mean? Like my eyes opened and I was like.

Now, are you saying that these figures that were around you, these six doctors, were they human? Could you see that they were human doctors?

I, I don't know, um, what they were because the thing is, I, all I saw was the the hazmat suits, you know, the sort of, um, suits.

Yeah. And it's, it's such a, you know, again, I would like to be lie detected on this as well. And, and I'm just so, um, you know, with the files coming out, people say, "Do I feel vindicated?" No, because it's so horrible what they've done, you know, like I wish that it wasn't true.

Sorry. What do you think they were doing to you when you were on that table?

I think they were taking my eggs. And I think they were al, they're also doing sort of experiments or something because like I said, when I got back from there, I wasn't okay. You know, I was, I'm hospitalized with panic attacks like at least ten times. And I've never needed a hospital or a doctor. I've always been healthy. And, and like, basically, like I thought I was going to die every day. Like, it, it really, like for years, it took me years to recover. And, and I'm just so, so grateful, you know, to to everyone who cares because it's been horrible. And thank you, Kim. Sorry, this has been horrible, all of it.

And this experiment that happened on you was at Zoro Ranch in New Mexico?

Yeah. I mean, to my knowledge, it seems like it was there, you know. And yeah. And then also, before I was sent back from there, Epstein gave me like a pelvic exam. He like felt my stomach and like felt my insides like a doctor would. So obviously, at the time, you know, it was so traumatic, everything that had happened. I, I couldn't sort of piece it together. But, you know, all these years later, sorry to cry, everything, but, um, all these years later, after they gave me settlement money, I had time to sort of step off the hamster wheel at work. And I, I just started to want, I wanted to explain to myself what had happened.

So I started doing more and more research. And then I realized that I had to speak out for everyone because I, I didn't realize how evil they were. I knew they were bad and they like controlled the world, but I didn't know how, how bad they were. You, you know what I mean? Did you see other girls there at Zoro Ranch, um, also being, did anybody else say that they were also had a strange experience or experimented on, or maybe you saw pregnant girls or anything of that, you know?

Um, that's the other frightening thing is that, um, I was taken to Zoro Ranch for like ten days. And, and I didn't even remember being there for that long. I can't even remember the room I was staying in, which is very freaky because I've got a very good memory. Like, I remember being in my cart as a baby. I remember like the island very specifically. But when I was taken there, like everything became a bit of a blur. Sorry. But, um, you know, um, there are more and more people speaking out now about it. But unfortunately, a lot of people who know more will be dead. And that's why I had to be very careful around them. But that's why I'm very lucky that I escaped. Basically.

We've been doing a lot of reporting on Zoro Ranch. And, um, it seems that there was some sort of underground lab or under, and maybe living quarters underground. There seems to be ventilation systems coming from the ground that indicate this. Epstein was also very, very interested in eugenics type stuff and baby farming. And, do you remember seeing anything, anything like that?

Well, well, another weird thing is when I met Michael Bay and the scientists, you know, on the island and in New Mexico, I'd see them once and then I'd never see them again. So, it's like, where were they staying?

So, all these years later, it, it obviously led me to believe that they were perhaps staying underground. Obviously, at the time when I was there, you know, we didn't even realize that there were potentially things underground. We were very naive. Um, everyone was. But, you know, Epstein's, um, um, New Mexico ranch is also between Deli and Daltchi Base and Roswell. So it's in that sort of area, you know. And also another thing that I, um, came across is.

You know, um, an amazing reporter from the Daily Beast contacted Michael Bay's office. And, and he denied ever knowing Epstein or ever been to his properties. So that made me realize, like, oh my god, he was there. Why is he lying? So I started digging further. And then I saw that he made the movie "The Island" about, um, cloning in 2005. And I met him there in 2004. And when I watched the movie about cloning and "The Island" again later, um, I saw, you know, all the clones escape from a place that looks like New Mexico. And also then I did more research and I realized, you know, um, Bill Clinton was there when I met him with Epstein. And, you know, he banned the federal funds being used for human cloning in 1997, just one year after Dolly the sheep was cloned. You know, if they cloned a sheep in 1996, that's 30 years ago. You know, it's quite clear that they're capable of cloning. If you can clone a sheep, you can clone a human. So there's been, I started to like, sort of, I fell down the rabbit hole, basically, you know, with all the research. But I, I did manage to claw my way out because, you know, you don't want to fall down the hole like much like Alice in Wonderland. Then we get on to J.P. Morgan, human trafficking, Disney princesses, but we'll, we'll do, we'll speak about that another time because that's a whole another chapter.

Can you tell us about the smell that you have talked about in previous interviews? What was the smell and when did you smell it?

Yeah, because when, when, um, Clinton walked past me behind me, and then he opened that door, I smelled this horrible, weird smell. And, um, I smelt it again because I was taken to Bill Richardson, the governor of New Mexico's mansion with Epstein, um, took me there and another victim. And they shook our hands. And, and then they went in to have a meeting with Epstein. And that's the other time I smelt that smell. There's also a third time I smelt that smell in Cape Town, but I'm not going to mention that that name yet. But, um, you know, I've only smelled that smell like three times. And it was just like, it was a smell of like feces and vomit and urine, but like masked with cleaning chemicals. It was, it was like the smell of fear, basically. I've realized because, you know, I've got animals. I love animals. Like, I remember like my cat once got in a fight and I could smell that sort of smell of fear. Um, it's just a fierce smell, but it was very like, it was a very strong scent. And, but it was marked with cleaning chemicals. And it was just, um, yeah, it took me, I mean, when I smelled it, I just thought, hey, that's a bit weird. Why do these people smell like this? But then, um, after all the years, I told my friend, um, about it and she said, "Oh my god, Juliet, that smells sounds like the smell of dead bodies." Which I didn't, you know, realize at the time. But unfortunately, you know, it's just as we're looking into these files, it's just, yeah. Sorry. It's just, it's all horrific. There, there is some, um, thinking that may, that I mean, there have been some talks and maybe some evidence and, uh, witnesses that have claimed that people were killed, that bodies were buried, that girls disappeared. Did you see girls and then suddenly not see girls and wondered where they went?

I mean, well, people used to come and go. But it seemed like in, it wasn't like they just vanished. Like, you know, that's another thing. If I had seen any person getting hurt or anything, I would have risked my life trying to save them. You know, that's the thing. Everything was very much hidden. And, and if I'd seen more, I probably would have been killed. You know, I'm very lucky to still be alive, in fact. But, um, you know, I, it's, it's just horrific, everything that's gone on. And, you know, you know, as we know, like a lot of the victims have been found dead, like Virginia Giuffre, Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy, you know, there were only six girls who testified against Maxwell, and two of, there were only three that put their names out there, and two of them are dead. So, you know, also like the Clintons, um, apparently a lot of their people they know have died suspiciously. Um, Kevin Spacey, you know, there were 12 accusers and three of them died suspiciously within a year. Um, I think it's quite clear that these people are capable of a lot more than any of us are even willing to comprehend. It's, it's horrific and it's been such a shock to me.

With a, yeah. So tell us, since you, you don't think that Epstein, I mean, you never saw, and you say that the other girls are lying that they were forced to have sex with famous people?

Um, well, I'm not saying they're lying because, um, the lawyers told me that this was happening, but it was like, 10% of the girls were being trafficked to other men. There was a lot more going on. It's just that I didn't, um, personally witness that.

Okay. You know what I mean?

And so then, sure. So then what, what do you think? What do you think Epstein? So if that was only 10% of the girls, what were the rest of you for?

Well, I don't really know. I mean, he obviously wanted people working with him. Like, he offered me $2,000, um, for any young girl I would bring to him, or $4,000 a month to to stay there and work with them. I obviously didn't take them up on those offers because I didn't want to be there. But, um, you know, the, like I was saying before, you know, these criminals, they have many branches to their criminal organizations. You know, like people in the mafia, they'll be arranging sex trafficking, human trafficking, drug smuggling. Um, let's not forget that apparently Bill Clinton used to bring drugs in. Um, well, sorry, he didn't bring drugs in, so let me rephrase that. You know, um, Bill Clinton was apparently involved with cocaine coming in through Arkansas. I mean, people can look it up online. So, you know, wherever there's money, there's greed and there's power. And I think a lot of, um, these, um, disgusting criminals will will go for that. So, basically, what, what we're basically saying here is that the world's being run by criminals. And it's very sad, but it's true.

And you saw, did you see criminal activity when you were at any of Epstein's places?

Well, I mean, obviously being, um, molested and abused by him and and kidnapped was criminal. But, you know, even at the time, I didn't even realize, you know, that's the thing. One developed a sort of Stockholm syndrome where he made one believe that, you know, that he made me feel like I was bad and I was just lucky to be there at all. But, um, I didn't see anything, um, criminal otherwise, I would have obviously like done something about it. But, you know, we did move around a lot. And, you know, on his airplane, like they were never anywhere for more than like three or five days. They'd move around very quickly. Apparently, they also had a hatch on the airplane where things could be like dropped out.

Um, from research that I've, um, read. So, it's just, yeah. Um, you know, thank goodness I didn't witness, um, too much, otherwise I wouldn't be alive anymore. And I'm just, I'm very grateful to be alive and, and to be able to speak and, you know, speak for those who are no longer alive because that's what I'm, that's why I'm speaking out. You know, I don't need to speak out. You know, it puts me at risk. But I do this for the goodness of the world. And, and just thank you so much, Kim.

Tell us about the, um, organization that you're working with or that you've started.

Oh, thanks, Kim. Well, what happened is, um, you know, um, I've always dreamed of doing charity work and helping people. Like, before Epstein took me there, that's, I was studying psychology and philosophy, and I really wanted to help kids. And, um, you know, just, I just wanted to help the world because it breaks my heart to see people suffering. And then, um, what happened recently, which is so amazing, is someone started like a cryptocoin where basically all the transaction fees are being, um, donated to to the cause, which, which we're working on. And it's called Survivorcoin. And again, I'm not promoting crypto at all. Like, anyone who doesn't know anything about crypto, don't, don't get into crypto. Although, I mean, Epstein was involved with Bitcoin and the banks, who do we trust anymore? I would suggest for everyone to do a little research on crypto. But again, don't, you know, people must be very careful buying in crypto. Like, I've learned the hard way. I got in it a while ago. Um, you know, just, um, my brothers are in it, so they taught me. And I actually did well on it. But people have got to be very careful. But, um, it's just so amazing that this, I'm just saying that as a disclaimer and a warning because, you know, and with the coin being created, I would never want anyone to go put a lot of money in and and lose it. I mean, you know what I mean? People will obviously most likely make, make a lot.

But again, I'm never going to, um, suggest that anyone does any, anything like that, you know. But I really do believe in the cause. And most important is that I've actually, um, been able to, I've been putting my own money back in to sort of get it all going. And, but with the fees, you know, I've still got the money liquid, so I can draw it off. And I've been helping people, you know, um, last week I helped three, three families. Well, not I, we, like our community, um, the Survivor Coin community. We helped three, um, families. We've paid for a boy's tuition, and another person, we helped got a kid on the way, you know. And also what we're going to start doing is, um, we're going to be supporting a soccer team, um, from an underprivileged school where we're going to have, um, soccer, um, shirt, you know, branding on the shirts. And we're going to be doing it every week. And just, just basically to gain momentum for the cause, you know, to help people. And, and we've got many more plans. Like, I want to create water points in Africa because, you know, a lot of people in Africa, you know, it's very, very hard. So I want to start like, um, drilling into the ground and getting water for the people. And, you know, also doing low, low income cost housing, you know, just anywhere, and not just in Africa, all over the world. Um, so it's just been so amazing to have this opportunity to actually do this, you know. And, and I know like, you know, you know, with projects like this, we got to just, you know, work and work and, and, and, but I, I can see it already happening. And I really believe in it. So, so thanks for bringing it up, Kim, because, you know, what I really want to do is help people. And, you know, like I'm saying, it's, it's like a GoFundMe but within the crypto space.

So, um, you know, people can invest. Like, people can put in $10, and then still, like, a percentage of the transaction fees will be donated, um, to our cause. And then people can still watch their $10 and it's likely going to grow. I mean, it could also have, but, you know, you know what I'm saying? It's, it's just like, um.

Yeah. And it's obviously, I'm not trying to get people into crypto.

But, but I just think it's, it's been so cool because a lot of money's been raised. And I've also invested the money back into the coin wisely so that we can really go ahead with, um, with our cause of helping people. And thank you for for speaking about that because it just makes me so happy after all the darkness, you know, that there's light at the end of the tunnel.

You know, we're going to help. I promise that. Where do people go in order to help out?

Um, well, it's listed on the Bags app, which is like a GoFundMe, um, sort of crypto, um, exchange. But again, like, I'm not suggesting anyone to put in a huge amount, you know, unless you know, just, you know, people must be cautious and just put in a little and they can watch it. It's, it's like a fun project. We're also going to have a logo design. We're going to, we've got a community. We're going to get everyone to vote on which design we want. And we're going to be doing votes on which causes we're going to be helping. And it just, like, after all the pain I've been through, this is like, it's, it's like when Epstein took me there, and I, I thought my dreams were coming true. You, my, my real dream was to help people. So, finally, my dream is coming true. You know, you know what I mean? It's come in a weird way, but at least I'm strong enough now to to to fight. And we're already going to help people, Kim. And, and thank you for also for having me on because you're, you're also helping people a lot. And just thank you for being amazing because I can only imagine how much you've done to help people. And thank you so much.

Thank you, Juliet, for being here and sharing your story. I know it's very difficult. And, um, we really appreciate hearing from you and your willingness to come on the show. And only wish you the best of luck and healing from this, um, traumatic experience that you went through. And just, you know, wishing you just health and happiness going forward. So thank you again, Juliet.

Thank you so much, Kim. Like they say, it's always darkest before the dawn. And I think the dawn's coming. You know, it's like times of goodness, times of light. And so, thank you. Um, because, yeah, it's, you know, there's some days where I feel like really everything gets too much. But then there are other days where I just feel like, got to keep fighting. And, and, and people like you make, make me feel stronger. And, you know, everyone who, who's watching and everyone who cares, that, you know, that makes everything worth fighting for. So, just thank you so much. I love you so much.

Well, um, that was definitely an interesting interview. Um, a lot to process there. My, my thinking, you know, my initial, having just spoken to her, so I haven't really even had a chance to really process this. But I will say this, that, um, first of all, trauma is complicated for people. There's been some, um, pushback against Juliet because she did have communication with Epstein all the way up until, I believe, 2017. And so people were like, "Well, if you were raped and trafficked and if you felt, um, harmed by this person and that your life was in danger, why did you continue talking to them over and over again?" And to me, that answer is actually quite simple. And that is very similar to when, you know, women get beat by their husbands and they just refuse to leave. And they even do leave and they get back together and it goes on and on and on. Then people say, "Why, why would you do that if this person's harming you?" And it's because human emotions and attachment are very complicated. So there's that aspect of it. So I'm not going to blame a victim for continuing to communicate with their abuser over the over over a period of years. I'm just not going to blame them for that. That's a very complicated thing. Now, on the issue of being trafficked, a lot of people will say, "Well, she was an adult. You know, she was 20 years old when she was found and she was taken." And, um, I hate this argument because human trafficking happens mostly to adults. And the way it's done is, and this happens all the time, every day. And it's wrong and it is illegal and it's happening to adults. And it's not just happening to women with sex trafficking. It's happening to adults when it comes to migrant workers. Workers are trafficked across, um, countries all the time. And the way that usually works is they will, the the trafficker will entice the person with an opportunity that is not real. So they'll say to the migrant in Honduras, for example, "Hey, we've got work for you in the United States. You just have to come with us. We'll, we need all your papers. Uh, we're going to get you up there. We've got a job for you." And the next thing you know, the person is being trafficked to the United States by a cartel who then sells them off to a factory here in the United States. They steal their papers and they make them work to all the way to the bone with absolutely no pay. It wasn't the opportunity that they signed up for. That happens all the time all around the world here in the United States and in other countries as well. And that is human trafficking and it is wrong and it's happening to adults. So the argument that, you know, "Oh, if you're an if you're an adult, this can't happen to you." [ __ ] Um, she was sold an opportunity she thought she was going to have, which was modeling in New York City and becoming a big model. That is what she was sold. She ended up in a totally different situation and feeling, you know, and was, according to her, raped and abused and, and she was fearful. So that, and that happens. You know, this is like the, I mean, this is historical indentured servitude, for example. I mean, that's exactly what that was where, well, you're basically a slave, but you can earn your way out of it. And then eventually indentured servants would be free. Um, and they didn't need to be freed by a law or freed by any other way. They could just earn their way out of their indentured servitude. Again, it's wrong. So, um, so there's that. Now let's talk about the big claims. Um, the shape-shifting, the, you know, that one I think is was the most shocking, the shocking claim that Juliet had. The smell thing, you know, smells are interesting. I'm not doubting she smelled something. She very well might have smelled something that was very real. My first thought hearing that was Adrenochrome. That's what I was thinking, you know. And I, it's just amazing we're even having these conversations anymore right right now because for the longest time when I'd hear about Adrenochrome and that they were using, they would like scare children in order to, um, produce this stuff, you know, I thought that just sounds like a wild conspiracy. I mean, that just sounds like the wildest stuff I've ever heard in my life. And, uh, and now that we're seeing more and more from the files and we're seeing more and more of like the wild [ __ ] that just even celebrities are into right now. I mean, it's not like a big stretch when you think about, I mean, look at celebrities right now. How many of them have trans kids? How many of them are like transitioning their own children? And it's like, what are the chances that all three of your kids would be trans or whatever? And that's just the wild world that celebrities are living in where it's not normal. It's not real. So, it isn't a total wild leap to say here's this community of weirdos as it is living in their own weirdo bubble doing weirdo stuff. It isn't outside of the realm of, you know, a leap of, it doesn't take much of of the imagination to to then think of them going into this other really weird stuff like, I guess, Satan worshiping. People have been accusing celebrities of satanic worship for a long time. And, uh, I've had a hard time. I mean, I've never met anybody. I mean, I guess, you know, do people admit they're they're devil worshippers? I mean, I don't. I've never met one. So, I guess I'm not running in the right circles for that, or thank goodness I'm not. But I think there's this, you know, it's not a big stretch to think celebrities are really maybe that weird. People in power are really maybe that weird to where they would do some really sick and heinous things like try to extract Adrenochrome or however that stuff is made. So maybe that's what she was smelling. Or maybe, you know, or dead bodies. Or maybe I think sometimes when we're in a traumatic situation, smell, you know, especially if you do believe in like psychic ability or just high intuition ability, smell can, you know, manifest as a sense to to make you on high alert or to give you an insight into what might be going on. And maybe the smell isn't apparent to anybody else, but you're smelling it because your intuition, your sense, your sixth sense or seventh sense or whatever sense it is is like kicking in, if that makes sense. So there's a possibility of that. It could also have been imagined. Um, the shape-shifting again, also could have been imagined, of course, right? That's the first instinct I think of everybody is that's that's imagined. You were traumatized and you saw something because that's what you were seeing. That's what you were experiencing. You were experiencing this guy as some sort of demon. So, of course, you then saw that. Or it could have been that, um, she was drugged, right? Or it could have been he actually shapeshifted. I mean, I'm not, um, I'm not one to discount anything until I could be until things could be proven wrong. I've never seen somebody shapeshift. So, but just because I've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I mean, there is a possibility and stranger things have happened. So, or I don't know, that seems to be maybe the strangest thing. But I'm not one, you know, is it likely in my mind? No, because I've never seen that and I've never heard of that. But will I say it's impossible and it didn't happen? No, I'm not going to say that either because I don't know. Just because I haven't experienced it and I don't know doesn't mean it's not real. So, um, and a lot of people have asserted that Jeffrey Epstein was some sort of a demon, that they were that they were that him and his followers were, uh, worshiping some sort of a god. Maybe Jeffrey Epstein was that god, because they seem certainly what the files are indicating is that he was to them. So, if they were a b, you know, let's just go down this road for a second. If they were a bunch of devil worshippers doing weird devil worshipping [ __ ], maybe Jeff, and they all loved Jeffrey Epstein and did whatever he wanted and, and they were like cowtowing to this guy. Maybe the guy was the devil, or at least he was a demon. And maybe that's what she saw. When maybe she is highly intuitive and maybe he didn't actually shapeshift, but her her sixth sense, seventh sense, 10th sense, I don't sense, whatever it is, suddenly saw him for what he was. I mean, that is, you know, I'm not going to, plenty of people in this world have seen angels, they've seen spirits, they've seen ghosts, they've seen a lot of things. And so I, there's a lot of people who've seen that. So I'm not going, you know, suddenly she says he shapeshifted into a demon. And people are like, "What? Okay, you're crazy." But then somebody else comes along and says, "I had a near-death experience and I saw God." People are like, "Wow, tell me more." You know, is it really that different? Is it really that far-fetched what she's saying? If you believe that people have seen ghosts and the other side and angels, why is what she's saying so crazy? Well, it can't possibly be. If you believe one group, you've got to believe her, too. Or at least admit that there is a possibility of this. So, um, that, so in all of that context, that is that is my takeaway from this interview. Um, a lot of very, very bizarre stuff is what she saw and experienced. It's interesting she never saw any trafficking to other men. That maybe that was only 10%. That is very possible as well. Certainly, if you are trying to, certainly anybody underage, you know, if there was death and killing and all of that stuff and disappearing of people, you would kill off anybody who was a witness to a crime because you're trying to gain blackmail. And so a lack of those types of witnesses, I don't think is that uncommon for like crime organizations. Um, and yeah, probably only a set select group were were chosen to do that one particular thing. Just like probably another group, you know, if all of these theories are are real, then maybe another group was hand-selected not to have sex with a bunch of men, but to just be the baby farm girls. And maybe some were selected to be the the, you know, the ones that the that are supposed to go and get the guys and blackmail them. And maybe others are for something else, you know. I, I don't know. Um, but, you know, that that is my takeaway from this interview. I hope you found it interesting like I did. Um, and, you know, kind of process it. Let it let it sit with you for a little bit before you make a total judgment on it. Just kind of stop and think. That's what I try to do, which I will do more of. Now, thanks for watching this clip from the full Kim Iverson Show, which you can catch Monday through Friday, 2:00 p.m. Pacific, 5:00 a.m. Eastern for free at kimiversonshow.com. See you there.