"Skinny Bob is Real" – Lifelong Abductee Reveals Everything - Erik Nanstiel | DEBRIEFED ep. 85

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>> As soon as I decided I wanted to wake up, uh an image flashed into my head of uh a green maple leaf with a sun uh above it shining down through it and I could see the the gossamer structure of the leaf and there was like this really sickly music box type music playing. It felt like it was meant to distract me, to dazzle me. And as fast as I could turn my head to the left, I saw them. Four small uh creatures. They whooshed out of my room. Whoosh. Whoosh. Whoosh. Whoosh. If you ever saw the Skinny Bob footage, uh which was supposedly Soviet footage, that was them. The four little skinny bobs.

>> Exactly like that.

>> Exactly like that.

>> Yeah. This this is this is part for me of the most fascinating um part of your case because it's it's such a crude and strange method. You decided, hey, if something's entering my room and if something is tampering with my things or with me potentially, why not try to communicate with them? I created a poster. Uh I want to remember your visit. Let me remember you. I will not harm in big block letters on a 8 and 1 half x 11 poster. I printed it out and I taped it on my wall above my headboard.

>> 2 weeks later, something happened

>> and I woke up in my garage and I was suspended off the concrete floor and I was tilted forward at a 25 30° angle and I was looking down at one of those little skinny bombs.

>> Do you think they're evil? I think they're desperate. I think that they're trying to survive and I think they want to come here. I think they want to live here on our planet and uh they can't do so without uh borrowing heavily from our uh gene pool. The word abduction itself doesn't encompass the the loss of agency, you know, and and to be shown children I can never touch or love or or hold or know. That that just that just makes me shake with anger, you know? I I I hate these people. I hate them.

>> Hi, Chris. My name's Terry. I'm probably going to regret this, but here it goes. In 1969, while working at a venue in San Francisco called The Family Dog in the Great Highway, I got involved with a conversation with a gentleman who had walked off the street who started explaining that there were these beings that existed here at a higher vibrational level. He said that they had a physical existence, but they were out of our range of perception. And then he looked at me and said, "They'd like to speak to you if you're interested." I thought the guy was out of his mind, but I also thought being a 17-year-old that Yeah, it's true. It could be neat. If you're interested in hearing what happened after that, let me know.

>> Eric Nansteel, thank you so much for joining me today in the skiff. And I um just finished reading your book, Angst in the Shadows. It was a really interesting and incredible story of alien abduction um of an ongoing what seems to be like this progressing ongoing experience that you keep having to relive. Um, and today I want to talk to you about the origins of that, how we got into that, and then based on your experiences, what your theories are.

>> Absolutely. And thank you for having me. you know, it's not every day we get I get to speak to uh experiencers and that's one of the things that I think draws me to this book like many others whether it's you know Whitley Strieber I mean um Betty Andreas, Travis Walton, so many others is you know we can learn a fair amount of things from whistleblowers or from observations in the sky or fleer footage but you can't learn about their culture. You can't learn about their origin. You can't learn truly about, you know, their technology. Um, unless you speak to an experiencer and then that gives you some type of glimpse into their world. Um,

>> I agree.

>> Although a reluctant glimpse I'm sure at times. But for you, this all started when you were just a baby.

>> That's right. It started for me when I was a baby, but it started for my mother in the 1950s. And um but I'll start with myself. In 1970, I was um I want to say about spring, like April, May of 1970. Um I was about 15 16 months old. And um it started with uh these white orbs of plasma that would enter my room. Um, I was uh I remembered it because this happened so often it just kind of burned into my memory. Normally I wouldn't remember anything from my infancy, but in this case I do. And I I remember standing up in my crib, you know, with the the the wooden bars and just holding on to the the railing and and um looking at my closet. And as I did, uh this white plasma orb, it was like glowing bright, just came right through my uh bedroom closet door and uh across the room at about the speed of an adult walking. and it came up to my forehead, touched my forehead, and I lost consciousness. And this happened on a nearly monthly basis for 4 years.

>> You didn't remember this until you were like a little bit older, right? Or you remembered it, you just hadn't made the the ET connection.

>> Absolutely. I told my mother about it when I was old enough to talk about it because it happened up until the age of five. It stopped happening probably in late 1974. And uh my uh my mother, which this freaks me out cuz she didn't tell me this until like the last couple of years uh when I was writing the book, my mother told me that in 1974 she had um recurrent nightmares, dreams of uh running through the neighborhood from a friend's house to try to get home. It was her, my father, and myself. And I, you know, at that time was only five. And um as we're running home, these hundreds of white orbs would descend from the sky and chase us. And we're trying to like duck through the backyards and hide behind sheds and things like that in her dream. And an an orb would catch up to us and shine a beam of light down on us. And uh

>> this is something she told you.

>> Yes. She had these dreams. I was seeing orbs in my waking consciousness, in my waking life, in my bedrooms as a kid. And it happened all the time. It it happened so often. I developed a fear of closets. Um, but it wasn't just a closet. Sometimes it would come through like the knee wall by the ceiling, sometimes just through the wall, through a window, but usually through

>> What color was the door? White. Bright white. About the size of a softball. Wow. About this big. And uh so every time my mom had this nightmare about the orbs catching up to us, I would be taken.

>> She's having nightmares about me being taken. When I'm seeing these things actually visiting me in my waking life, um I don't remember being taken anywhere back then. I would go unconscious and when I wake up again, uh, everything was normal. I'm back. Yeah. Back to normal, right? Uh, and then, you know, sometimes you might dismiss it as a dream at the time, but, um, but I know the difference between being awake and and having a vivid dream. Um, there's there it's so different.

>> Yeah.

>> And so I know when I'm awake. Um, so but that wasn't my mother's first experience. If she's having these nightmares about orbs chasing us, that tells me that her subconscious mind is suppressing memories of some kind. Cuz I was I was still too young. Like I I wasn't really talking about the orbs. I mentioned them once or twice and my mom said, "Oh, they're probably just angels and you're special and they're just visiting you." And I'm like, "Oh, I'm special. you know, angels visit me. Great. I don't believe that anymore. I I take it in the context of my abduction encounters that I had later on. Um, so, but for my mother, all this started back in 1953 when she was 9 years old. She uh lived in Turtle Creek, Pennsylvania, which is a suburb outside of Pittsburgh. Um, her family lived in a small home on top of Rose Hill on Kugxton Avenue. It's um it's a a narrow street with houses on one side and a view of a a valley pretty far below of a massive trainard. And um there was one summer night, I think it was in July. I'm not sure. I don't remember what she told me. I I might have put it in the book. Um but her brother saw a UFO at night flying over the valley and it was you know circular and had lights and um and it was it was moving laterally you know it was moving parallel to the you know, the the valley and uh kind of stopped above their house and then they were looking at it and then it just it was gone just up and gone. Wow.

>> Um so they ran into the kitchen and my mother was in there and this was close to bedtime. They ran into the kitchen, my mother and her her little brother Billy was in there and and her and um this was Dick and Don. And they came in, hey mom, Betty, there we saw a UFO flying over the valley and then so they described it and then so everybody ran outside to go take a look at this UFO. It was gone. Um but uh my mom didn't get to see it. However, that night about 2:30 in the morning, now she had her own bedroom. She was the only sibling that had her own bedroom cuz they there was uh eight kids and and she was the only young female. Uh so she had her own bedroom. All the other kids that were still in the house were uh sharing a bedroom in front. Anyway, she snuck she she woke up in the middle of the night at 2:30 a.m. and she felt compelled like she had to go check on something down in the basement, which was at the time just a dirty coal cellar. I mean, just, you know, dirt and there's a couple of laundry machines down there. That was it.

>> Um there that's no place for a 9-year-old girl at 2:30 in the morning. Yeah. But she felt compelled that she had to go check on something. and she didn't understand like it felt urgent. Um, so she got up, she snuck downstairs, went down the stairs and through the dining room, through the kitchen, turn on the light above the, you know, by the the basement door, open the door, and the light illuminated the the stairs, just to the base of the stairs, no further. Beyond that was shadowed blackness. And so she got about I don't know three or four steps down before she noticed uh some shapes coming out of the darkness and uh they turned out to be two very large German shepherds and they were growling and snarling at her and she was frightened. Um

>> and she didn't have German shepherds.

>> No. No. They had a little fluffy white dog named Fuzzy.

>> Yeah. Definitely a far cry from a German Shepherd.

>> Right. Right. and and and why would they be in the basement at 2:30 at night,

>> right?

>> Um,

>> and this is your impression um, you know, traveling a little further in time here, but this is a screen memory.

>> I believe it was a screen memory. Yes. Because I'm taking it in the context of everything everything that's happened later.

>> It only makes sense that her brothers see the UFO that night.

>> Yeah.

>> And and she's having this really weird encounter in the basement. The dogs lunge at her and she go passes unconscious. And then when she wakes up again, she's back in her room.

>> Yeah. No, no scratches, no bite marks.

>> Right. Right. So, at the time, she just wrote it off as a dream. Forgot about it. She didn't think about it again until the 2020s when my encounter started happen so regularly that I was actually waking up and seeing,

>> you know, what was going on with me and where I was and who I was interacting with. You know, that was happening so often. So I started to tell my family like, "Hey, these things are happening to me." And and when I told my mother that sometimes the grays when I would see them, sometimes at first they would appear like humans or I would believe that they're human, like a post-hypnotic suggestion kind of a thing. And then later on when I'm back at home and I wake up, um the visual memory of what I actually saw is what I remembered. Um,

>> must have been very confusing, right, to try and figure that out and try to map that out in your own mind.

>> It's like I was talking to my brother Ron last night, but no, that was that was a it it had the big eyes and a gray face, you know, it was a small gray. Um, you know, so things like that. So eventually, uh, I I was telling my mom about these screen memories and then that just clicked something in her head and I told her about Whitley Strieber

>> with a barn owl.

>> Yeah. um through the kitchen window.

>> I mean, so many so many reports of whether it's deer, uh owls, uh I mean many types of even, you know, different people, children, like there's all types of strange screen memories. And I think for the most part, what stays with people when they hear about these things is the absurdity of what they're seeing,

>> right? Because there is there is this idea, okay, maybe you did see an owl or maybe you did see a dog, but you're like, no, there's an abstractness to what I'm seeing and it's misplaced. It's not supposed to be here. And that's where it almost seems like there is a sort of disconnect between, you know, whatever technology or telepathic ability they're using to potentially project a screen memory. They don't fully understand what's normal,

>> right?

>> And they're and they're projecting some strange, you know, event where we're seeing it as like highly anomalous.

>> Like why would I be in uh in the air traffic control tower?

>> Exactly.

>> Surrounded by windows in this round room.

>> Yeah. With with

>> with a baby.

>> Well, yeah. And and and a a 7 and 1/2t tall

>> Yeah.

>> air traffic controller.

>> Yeah.

>> Giant air traffic controller

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>> Yes.

>> Um there is also an incident later on in your life where you're in a hospital and the orb comes over comes over you as well and you experience some type of healing event. What you perceived as a potential ability to heal another child in the hospital. Is that fair to say?

>> Yes. This happened in 1974 in Parkidge, Illinois at uh Lutheran General Hospital. I um I was in for observation related to um an injury I sustained in a bouncy house at Adventureland, which um bouncy houses were not ubiquitous back in the early '7s. They only had them at theme parks. So before anybody objects, oh you couldn't have been in a bouncy house, those are a new thing. They're not. Um, I got trampled and um and I I had a concussion and so I was being observed for some minor seizure activity. I outgrew it a few years later. But um while I was there uh on my last day, I remember um it was late and I was starting to get drowsy, but I was still awake, very awake. And I was I was looking at the I was closest to the to the hallway door and the bathroom and Tommy the my roommate uh he was closer to the windows. So it was a a two-bed room and he was he was he had some kind of sepsis going on. He had a infected abscess in his abdomen and it was all the way up around his heart and lungs and he had 110 fever. Um, well, it would vary between 105 and 110. And, uh, I don't remember his last name, but his name was Tommy. And, um, my mother's told me the story so many times, that's why I remembered it. But, um, you were how old?

>> I was five. Okay. And I the night before it was time for me to leave, cuz I was there for like 4 days. Tommy was there for one or two days. Um, the night before I was to leave, um, a white orb came through the the the hallway door into the hospital room.

>> This is at night.

>> Uh, this was at night. Yeah. And and, uh, it was lights out. You know, we were It was time for bed. And uh,

>> do you remember waking up?

>> I was awake.

>> You were awake. You were not asleep.

>> Yeah. There was too much noise in the hallway. I wasn't ready to fall asleep,

>> but I was quiet and I was just kind of like lazily staring at the window until I fell asleep. But

>> um I remember the door had a window with the reinforced wire mesh inside and and uh white linen curtains hanging over it. And um so the orb came through that and came to my bed and touched my forehead and I was instantly asleep, unconscious. And I woke up the next morning and um the nurse came in uh to help me prepare to leave. And so I I used the washroom, got dressed, and my mother came for me. And Tommy's mother was there. She never left. She never left her son's side. She slept there all night with him. Um cuz he he was deathly ill and and probably expected to die. I assumed he was going to die. Nobody told me that, but I expected it. Um and I was kind of afraid of him. Like emotionally I couldn't handle being around somebody who was dying. I was a 5-year-old. Very

>> embarrassed.

>> Yeah. Didn't really comprehend the uh

>> Right. I just didn't I was just like I don't want to be near him. Um and so my mother came with a a toy truck and she wanted me to give it to Tommy. And um and I told her, "Mommy, I I don't I don't want to talk to him. He's going to die." And my mom said, "Um, honey, you have to you have to say goodbye to him. It's a nice thing to do." So, I took the truck from her and I I walked over to Tommy's bed and he had a little uh three set of stairs, wooden stairway that the kids used to climb up into. Small children would climb up into the bed cuz the beds were kind of high. Um, and I knelt beside him and he was so weak. He was looking at me like listless, you know, and I I set the the little toy truck next to his head, next to his pillow, and I said, "This is for you." And I knew he wasn't going to play with it right there. Um, but just a thought came into my mind right then, and I'm like, I I don't even know why. It was just instinct. I just spread out my hands like this and I place my hands on his abdomen, his torso, and I just move my hands up and down his body and and I said, "There, now you're going to be all better." And meanwhile, my mother and Tommy's mother were near the the door uh conferring with each other and looking at me and like, "What's he doing?" It's kind of weird. Um so I said, "There, now you're going to be all better." and I hopped down off the bed and my mother and I uh were about to leave. I I ran down the hallway.

>> You remember saying that to him?

>> I remember saying that to him. Yes. Uh and then but my mother told me something. I said when I was in the hallway, she said I was looking at my hands. I said, "I have magic hands."

>> Wow.

>> I don't remember saying that, but she remembers I saying that.

>> Okay.

>> That I said that. Um so apparently they had exchanged numbers, my mother and Tommy's mother. And so I don't know if it was like a week later, but Tommy's mother called my mom and said um they uh they took her son in for testing to see like how are they going to try to save his life cuz he was laying on a like an ice bed overnight to try to get his body temperature down.

>> Yeah. Right. You know, cuz it was so high and um but his fever had already broken when the doctors came for him. And uh they they ran some tests and the abscess was completely gone. all that infected goop that was in there gone. And um so Tommy's mother was pretty excited. She called my mom and and she told him, you know, it's a miracle and he he didn't didn't require surgery or anything. Um I don't know if they really scheduled him for surgery, but I kind of assumed they would.

>> Mhm.

>> But uh he didn't need it. Do you ever follow up with your mom into like who this person was? And she does she have the number still or?

>> No. No. I mean, back then all the all the phone numbers in Chicago were 312 area code.

>> Uh they only had one area code. So the number wouldn't be good anymore.

>> And this isn't something your mom would have told you just to make you feel good.

>> No, she she told me uh it was probably years later that she told me what her what Tommy's mother said.

>> Wow. Um so but then uh later that year my grandfather uh my mom's father uh Sydney um came to visit uh cuz he he'd never visited Chicago before. Um they didn't have a lot of money so they didn't do a lot of traveling but he wanted to visit Chicago and he wanted to visit his son in California. But while he was in Chicago he became very sick. He had s COPD and he was dying on our living room rug. It was a blue rug, like a textured rug. And um and I remember the paramedics had been there and there were like all these needles all over the floor. But um he told my mom he wanted to live one more year so he could go out to California and visit his son. I think uh his son Jim. And uh so I knelt down beside him and I put my hands on him too and uh his medical emergency just ceased to be and and he was okay. Um and he lived for almost exactly one year like within a week. Um and he got to go to California and and visit his son. And I never healed again. I never did it again. I never tried it again. Um, I don't think I have it anymore. I think it it was related to the activity I was experiencing with those orbs

>> from the orb. Yeah.

>> Like it was somehow instilled within you for that

>> small finite amount of time for some reason. Do you think Tommy might have grown up to be somebody really important perhaps?

>> No. I I mean, what else would there

>> I think it's connected to innocence. I think I think you you have you have access to a a higher consciousness within you when you're innocent and you're not so jaded and cynical

>> from adult life.

>> Yeah, I can see that

>> as I am.

>> Yeah.

>> So, um I I don't think I have it. I mean,

>> what do you make of um you know, tangent here, but what do you make of like the Chris Bledsoe stuff? Uh, honestly, I haven't looked into him too closely because there's a lot of obvious crossovers here with orbs being present and then healing. Um, you know, he writes in his book that he was able to, and this was corroborated actually by Grant Cameron, who is here on this podcast, that he was able to heal his dog Nelly from, you know, when she was like spurting blood across the house and just putting his hands on the dog. And then another instance of him healing a child that was pretty much um a make a wish kid and very little time to live. Had like intestinal problems and then after his visit those went away you know after he laid his hands on the child. And um and then you know many people have claimed since then as well to have had some miraculous intervention due to you know whether it's him praying or him like being involved. Do you think that something like that is legitimately from visitation? Do you think like do you think this is possible like that?

>> Well I I believe that some people have the ability to heal. Um, I think it's a real thing

>> without ET intervention.

>> I don't know.

>> Right.

>> All I know is that I've had visits and I've had healing episodes.

>> Mhm.

>> And and later on in life in the 2020s, I was healed,

>> right?

>> Um in in a facility that they had me in.

>> We'll get to that.

>> Yeah. Um but then you have like books like uh Preston Dennit who you mentioned your book as well and and he's got a book where he covers 300 healing cases of orbs or ET phenomenon um and just so many of the same type of story especially in hospitals a lot of times in hospitals surprisingly where they have these orbs floating in and being witnessed and just kind of healing people. Do you think was there ever at any point in your life where you got confirmation that those orbs were related to the later sort of grays uh inter uh interacting with you? When I came upon a realization that that was connected to the abductions I was going through, it was only after watching an episode of Ancient Aliens where they where they uh showed the uh the cast uh live on stage at an Alien Con and somebody was talking about orbs and they were they also had abduction encounters. So they saw orbs and then I see. So, I'm like, those are connected. And then and then it just started to click, you know. And then, um, my mother later told me about her episode in the 1950s because I was telling her about these screen memories cuz I started to look into it cuz I it was happening so often and I wasn't believing what I was seeing. But then eventually those screen memories stopped working on me because that's something that they impose upon you through some kind of post-hypnotic.

>> Yeah. Some illusory sort of field.

>> Yeah. They they just make you think you're seeing familiar types of people, familiar types of places, you know, where I'd think I'm in a hospital or I think I'm in a air traffic control tower or some place like that.

>> And as soon as you see past the veil, it's really hard to keep that keep that charade up.

>> It it stopped working on me. So I was visually seeing either a tall gray or or small grays. Um sometimes both in the same room. Hm. Um, that's interesting because, you know, we talked about this at dinner last night, but it is one of those things where, you know, as a magician myself, I've I've been able to use hypnosis for entertainment purposes. Um, I've, you know, I have friends who are some of the best hypnotists in the world, entertainment hypnotists, not clinical hypnotherapists or anything, but can do some of the most incredible things to the human mind and make you perceive certain things through different, you know, uh, stages of suggestion. The interesting notion though is that as a magician, I am ironically disillusioned by this >> because I know how it works. So I do there is some susceptibility here. There is like a a layer that I can no longer be sort of um hypnotized by and so I understand the idea of seeing a screen memory or something some veil and then seeing past it and then being like oh is that all it is? And then once you have that information you can no longer go back. like someone who's readily read into how to hypnotize people, whether clinically or whether, you know, for entertainment, does have an edge on not being hypnotized.

>> I think the tall grays are stronger at it. Um the ability to impose screen memories, stronger at it than the

>> stronger psychically.

>> Yeah. Yeah. the the short grays. Um, almost every time I've seen them, uh, there was there was no

>> no costume.

>> Yeah. No, it was just them. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, let's get into that. I think the first, um, your first runin was 1994, if I'm not mistaken.

>> The first run out, I would say.

>> Right. The first that I remember where I actually saw Grace was in 1994 was in Wheeling, Illinois. Uh, I had a I was sharing a two-bedroom apartment with my childhood best friend, Joe. And um, he wasn't there that weekend, but this happened on August 20th, 1994. It was a Saturday. I looked it up. And um, by I remembered it was the third Saturday of the month, and that's why I looked it up and found out it was August 20th. Um, but it was uh, I don't know, maybe 6:30 in the morning. the sun was coming in and uh I was aware that that the morning light was in the room and I had become conscious in my sleep. So it was a it was a lucid dream state. Um but I wanted to wake up and um so I you know I had plans that day and I was actively thinking about those plans while my eyes are closed. I'm like, "All right, I'm going to wake up and and uh you know, take care of business." Um, and I couldn't open my eyes. And then I'm like, "Wait, that's weird." So, I tried to move my body. I couldn't move my body. I'm like, "All right, is this, you know, later on I'm like, was it like, could that have been sleep paralysis?" I mean, it kind of fits the symptoms. But um as soon as I decided I wanted to wake up, uh an image flashed into my head of uh a green maple leaf with the sun uh above it shining down through it. And I could see the the gossamer structure of the leaf, the cells and the veins. And I was rotating underneath the the leaf itself, and there was like this really sickly music box type music playing. And um it was it was just just a sick melody that I I it was disturbing. It almost felt like a horror movie. Um but it felt like it was meant to distract me, to dazzle me, you know, like dangling keys in front of a baby kind of a thing. Um, so I started to panic and at first I couldn't move, but then I started to shake and I felt the bed shaking underneath me and I was finally able to pop open my eyes, set up straight in bed and as fast as I could turn my head to the left, I saw them four small uh creatures. They ashen gray bulbous heads, big black eyes, uh, dark coveralls from their head down from their neck down to their their feet. And they whooshed out of my room. Whoosh! Whoosh! Whoosh! Whoosh! Like they were propelled. They They weren't running. They were moving too fast for something so small to run. Uh they were propelled like like And it the way they accelerated, it was kind of like they were at the end of a taut bungee cord that was snapped loose and they just accelerated right out right through my bedroom door, which was closed. I don't know why they chose the door. I They guess they could have gone through the wall, but they went through the door.

>> At this point, you're wide awake.

>> Oh, yeah. And and freaking out.

>> This is not one of those moments where you wake up twice.

>> No.

>> You're wide awake in your bed and you're seeing this.

>> Yeah. As fast as I could turn my head, they you know it if I had turned my head ever so slightly slower, I would have missed them.

>> But you got a good enough glimpse.

>> Yeah. And um and it kind of burned in my memory. Um, so then I started I I'm like those those look like little gray aliens. So I I started like reading. So I I didn't do a lot of reading, but I read about the Betty and Barney Hill case and I was interested in that. And um and there was a lot of Bob Lazar stuff going on in 1994. Uh you know, videos that you could rent at the video store and they came out with that Testor model kit and uh I bought one of those. And so I was interested in it in the mid '90s for a while as a result of seeing them in my room.

>> This was after seeing them. Yeah.

>> After.

>> Yeah.

>> Um but I did not

>> Was there was there any interest before? Were you at all like did you have a a mental image of what a gray looked like or like were you seeking them out in any capacity? I I did because I saw Whitley Straber's book uh like 5 years before that

>> uh on uh an end cap.

>> Very different from a gray like a typical gray though cuz the skin tone isn't gray.

>> It's not an accurate drawing. That's that's supposed to be a representation of a tall gray and it's not accurate at all. But it looked emotionally familiar to me when I I saw it at a at a grocery store at a jewel in Northwest Highway um in Displayplains. And it it was at a grocery store and it was $52 and the paperback it was a first edition paperback. And so I got it and I read it because the cover freaked me out and I couldn't explain why. Uh, but I read it and I still wasn't like it wasn't like bringing up memories or anything from earlier, nothing like that. Um, so maybe I didn't see any grays in the 70s. Maybe I I was unconscious for those encounters um with those orbs.

>> But um, you know, after they rendered me unconscious and and let's say if they had taken me, maybe I was asleep the whole time during the encounter. I don't know. But but still that that cover on communion and this was like 1988 ' 89 when I saw the book and I bought it,

>> right? But I read it and then I set it aside. And then in 1994, I actually saw grays in my room just suddenly. I It wasn't like something I was like really into or it was just kind of like casual passing interest at the time,

>> but very different as well from the description

>> given in the book communion because,

>> you know, the tinier beings that Whitley describes had hoods. These are more like little gargoyle figures like just

>> I didn't see anything like that. You know, you you saw like kind of the tall version in a short form. No.

>> Um but with gray skin.

>> No, they No, they

>> they look different.

>> If if you ever saw the Skinny Bob uh uh footage, uh which was supposedly Soviet footage.

>> Yeah, we we reviewed it here on the channel.

>> That That was them. The four little skinny bobs.

>> Exactly like that.

>> Exactly like that.

>> Three and a half feet tall.

>> Exactly like that. They're little worker bees is what they seem to be. Um that

>> Do you believe that Skinny Bob footage to be authentic?

>> I do, but um somebody dressed it up with like

>> Yeah.

>> fake scratch marks and

>> Right. Uh but but the original footage Yeah. that was real because that's exactly how they look. That's exactly how they move.

>> And really when I Yeah. The first time I saw it, I freaked out

>> because cuz it was like, you know, you your your heart races a little bit.

>> Yeah. I was thinking, "Oh my god, they're real."

>> Right. Yeah. Because it was like it wasn't like I had a visual memory that I could sketch on paper,

>> right?

>> But when

>> you knew it when you saw it.

>> When you saw it, you knew it. And And so I I know that's authentic. I I mean, it's just every fiber of my being, you you even if if you had a guy come up and say, "Hey, look, I you know, I faked this with his 3D software." I'm I'm going to think he's trying to make a name for himself. And he's faking it, you know. Fake faking faking it,

>> right?

>> Um but yeah, so

>> you'd put you bet your life on it.

>> Yeah. The four those are four little skinny bobs that I saw running out of my room.

>> You would you would swear that that is real. That sk that's wild.

>> Yeah, absolutely. And because I saw the next time I saw a skinny Bob was um 26 years later.

>> Uh this was in uh 2020.

>> This is your next experience. Yeah. So there's quite a quite a time frame quite a quite a difference in time and before we get to that next experience that aotted amount of time is there a significance there? I think that they come they they have a schedule that they follow when when they they seem to follow family lines and they have a schedule and they seem to uh every 20 years they'll come for a four-year rotation and they'll come every four to six weeks for four years. So, you'll have a a a rash, you know, like however many encounters, like 48 encounters over a 4-year period, sometimes more than that. Um, and then 20 years off and then it happens again. So, I'm not expecting them back in my life until I'm in my 70s cuz when they came, I was uh when they started coming back, I was 51

>> pretty recently.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm 57 now. That's just something that um is not readily talked about anymore. It seems it seems to me like the abduction phenomenon and that might only be because of the coverage of it, but it seems to have dissipated in some way compared to, you know, the amount, but I I speak to a lot of people who are abductees and they they tend to disagree. They're like, "No, this is ongoing. This is still happening today."

>> Popular culture might have uh made it pass a over the years.

>> Sure. But it's still very strong going on. Um, uh, there's somebody I can't really talk about, uh, for privacy concerns, but, uh, I I may have, uh, possibly led them to this person

>> and, uh,

>> they are now experiencing the phenomenon.

>> They've hinted at that, right?

>> Yeah. but uh but wouldn't give me any details because it they didn't want to be dragged into

>> into into this uh talk

>> rightfully so.

>> Um it takes a lot of courage you know to to talk about this stuff publicly for sure and to you know let people in especially when you're dealing with some of the procedures that are involved. They're they're quite invasive.

>> They're the most personal. You know, it's as personal as you're thinking out there. Like that's

>> it has to do with reproduction. It has to do with some type of, you know, insemination or or whatnot. Like there is some very private details that uh there are some very private details that you go over in this book and that you know, Whitley has provided as well in his book and

>> and and some I haven't given.

>> Sure. Um Okay. So the next time you were to meet any of these beings and because you had so far only met four skinny bobs as you put it, these short ones. But then 20 years later,

>> 26 years

>> 26 years later, you are suddenly awake, right? But let me back up 2 months.

>> Sure.

>> I noticed things starting to go ary in my bedroom.

>> Oh, that's right. in January of 2020. Between when I'd go to bed at night and when I would wake up in the morning, something would have changed or been different in my bedroom. And sometimes they were quite noticeable. Um, the most significant was uh I'd wake up and my bedding was 90° oriented the wrong direction as though it had been completely removed and then put back on the wrong way. Uh, I have these uh, black and gold stripes on my um, duvet and uh, it it laying across my legs and then I'd wake up in the morning and it was vertical stripes. Uh, I'm like that's weird. But what made it weirder was the fact that um, I normally have like a back scratcher and a I sleep alone. I have a back scratcher and a night mask, a sleep mask that I put on on top of the bed. Uh I might need it in the middle of the night, but uh normally if I have a rough night and I'm like tossing and turning, these things always get kicked off onto uh the floor on the opposite side of the bed. And um so when I woke up and the thing was oriented the wrong way, I expected those things would be on the other side on the floor, but they weren't. They were neatly placed side by side with each other under the top sheet right next to my body. And I'm like, that's weird. I wouldn't do that because you'd roll on to uh this sharpedged back scratcher. It wake you up. It'd be uncomfortable. Maybe you'd get a scratch. I don't know.

>> So, you'd suspected that somebody

>> Yeah. Right. It just didn't make sense. It didn't add up because I know I didn't do that, you know. Um and then another time was uh I woke up in the morning and I had uh my earplugs I had these orange foam earplugs had been removed from from my ears. Now normally if I remove them I just throw them onto the nightstand just willy-nilly just throw them like a paradise. And uh so when I didn't remember removing them, I I looked on the bed around me to see if they had fallen out of my my ears, but they didn't. And then I I looked to my my nightstand right next to me and they were stacked on their ends neatly, daintily next to each other. I saw that and my eyes went wide like whoa. Like how did that happen? I didn't do that. I know I didn't do that. Um later on, years later, I would meet a woman who experienced that exact same phenomenon with her earplugs, which blew my mind.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah, that was validation at least on that one little detail that I just that that was awesome. Um, so anyway, I I after several incidents between January and late March, um, I decided to do an experiment like, yeah, this this is this is part for me of the most fascinating um part of your case because it's it's such a crude and strange method to its I mean it it you know when I when I read this I was like no way it it's it's the equivalent of you know putting an SOS sign on on the beach with rocks. Um, but you decided, hey, if something's entering my room and

If something is tampering with my things or with me potentially, um, and you suspect that it might be these little creatures that you saw years before, why not try to communicate with them? And that just kind of blew my mind when I read that because I don't think that's where very many people's heads ends up when they think about this stuff. They're more like, please do not come back.

Right. Well, if you can't be awake to communicate, how, how else are you going to do it? So, what did you do? I created a poster. I, uh, I went online and I found a picture of a small gray alien that looked like the ones I saw in 1994, and it was, uh, an illustration of a little skinny bob. And I'm like, "Okay, that's the one." So, I put the illustration on the poster and I said, "Uh, I want to remember your visit. Let me remember you. I will not harm." In big block letters on an 8 and 1/2 x 11 poster. I printed it out on glossy paper and I taped it on my wall above my headboard and, um, and I thought, "Okay, I hope, I hope the babysitter doesn't enter my room or somebody like sees this, 'cause they're going to think I'm, I'm Looney Tunes."

Oh, 100%. Oh, yeah. I mean, this is like, this is really strange stuff. Uh, so I'm like,

Yeah. Let alone bringing a date home or something or like.

Oh, no. I would rip it down. I'm like,

Last thing you want them to see.

I'm not letting you into my weird little world just yet.

Fair enough.

So, um, what I did was, um, I put it up there and a week goes by, nothing. Nothing. And, um, then as the days go by, I kind of forget it's even up there. I just ignore it. I, I have no idea how long it's going to be, if ever, you know, and maybe nothing will happen and I'll just tear it down and forget the whole thing. Um, but, uh, two weeks later, something happened and I woke up in my garage wearing nothing but my boxer briefs that I was wearing to bed. And I was suspended off the concrete floor and I was tilted forward at a 25, 30° angle and I was looking down at one of those little skinny bobs and he was wearing, uh, dark coveralls and, uh, it was dark and very dark in the, the garage, but there was light streaming in the side window illuminating the, um, the small gray's, uh, left side and to my left was my, uh, I had a 2002, uh, Chevy Trailblazer and then I could see like the, the paint cans and the, the shelves behind the gray and it just noticing my environment. I was able to turn my head.

Could you feel the environment? Like the cold? The smell? It was like being drunk but without the buzzy feeling.

You're, you're in a state of pure awareness. You're very awake. Pure awareness, but you're, you're, you're, uh, deaf and dumb. Like you can't think straight. Um, and this thing spoke to me. Words in my mind. Just.

Words. Actual words.

Yeah. Were actual English words in my mind.

And there was a voice to these.

It, well, it sounded like a voice, but it was, uh, but it, you know, I mean it.

Yeah. It's hard to.

It didn't have an accent or any. It was like, the closest would be like a Midwestern accent, you know, just very, very clear syllables and and just. It didn't sound like mechanical. It.

Didn't sound familiar.

No, it, it was just, just words in my mind that that maybe my brain interpreted as English or maybe it knew English. I don't know.

Was it stern?

Um, no. It was just very matter of fact. And it said to me, uh, apparently in response to the poster that I want to remember you guys, it said, "We can't allow you to remember our visit, or else my superiors will know about it." And before I could formulate a response or a question, 'cause I was, I was confused. I, I didn't like, what am I seeing? Before I could formulate any kind of response, I was instantly unconscious again. And not dreaming sleep, black sleep, you know, just completely black sleep. And then when I woke up, I woke up from a black sleep. There were no further imagery in my mind. And, uh, and it was, uh, I don't know, sometime after 3:00 a.m. Uh, which is normally when people tend to wake up, like that's normally like a, a REM.

Yeah.

Period of time.

Yeah. Willy Street describes the same time.

Yeah. Um, but that was like the witching hour, you know.

Sure. Yeah.

Um, so I, I sat up in bed and I just couldn't believe what I just experienced. Of course, I don't know how long it was after the garage that I had woken up. Uh, it could have been an hour later. I don't know. But, you know, for, for those wondering, like, how would you describe knowing the difference between being in your garage or perceiving that to be your garage? Like, for you, what is the, "Oh my God, this is my garage?" Because obviously, if you're listening to this, the first thing you're going to say is, "It, it was a dream."

It's more visceral than a dream, you know? It's, it's more physical. Um, I, I couldn't. It, I should have been freezing. It, I mean, the garage must have been 40° Fahrenheit, um, at that time. Uh, it's a very insulated, well-insulated garage, you know, so the wind doesn't make it too cold, but it cools down slowly overnight. So, it would have been, would have been about 40° in there. I didn't feel anything. Um, and, uh, I didn't, and I knew I wasn't touching the concrete 'cause I, I didn't feel the concrete under my feet. And my feet were not dirty afterwards. Um, I was, and, and from my eyeline being just about equal to the roof rack.

Right.

Uh, told me I was off the floor. I couldn't see my feet because I was, I was leaning forward.

Um, you know, and my, my hands were, my arms are at my side and I, it was, I was like a frozen plastic. I made an illustration of this. You could see it on on my, my book's website. Um, and, and the illustration ex is exactly right. And the way that the, I illustrated the the light streaming in it. There was like black and white streams like, you know, and, and the, the light was moving like this, side to side, as as though there was like a spinning or moving or or or something was walking in front of the light source. I don't know. But it was like doing this as it was illuminating him from the side. The, the light, the streams were moving.

Mhm.

Um, it was very strange.

You think it was a ship?

I don't know. It could have been an orb. It could have been, I don't know. But something was very brightly lit. There were no signs later on the the grass.

You went to check outside.

Yeah, there was nothing. There was no burn marks or anything like that. So, whatever it was, it wouldn't have landed. Um, yeah, it is interesting to have that vantage point in the garage as well where that's not, you're not likely to have that point of view if it weren't for the fact that you were elevated.

I don't dream about my garage. It's boring. I mean, it's like I got paint cans in there and tools and lawn mower and snowblower and a car and, um, it, it, it's usually, you dream about things that you have an emotional attachment to or something you're concerned about or thinking about. Sure, there are abstract dreams as well. I would say I wouldn't rule out, you know, dreaming about something absurd. But also knowing the difference between a dream and reality, I think, is is the, uh.

Is the more important part here because.

It's such a different experience for me and, and I know the difference between when I'm asleep or, um, I, I liken the experience to, um, I was, I was in a car accident during college and I told you about this at dinner last night. Um, I was in a car accident. This was in Iowa. And my roommate John was driving. I was drunk in the back seat. He was sober, but he was driving and the, the roads were icy and we were going like on like a bridge like over a creek or something and, and, uh, he slid and hit the back of a semi with his right front corner and we're spinning around anyway until he was able to right the car and we narrowly averted death from oncoming traffic. Um, I was just taking it all in like in slow motion. I was dissociating myself. Uh, because I didn't want to believe it was real and I was numb because I was drunk. Um, that's what that's what the entrancement that they impose upon you feels like. It feels like being drunk but without that uncomfortable buzzy feeling. Um, you don't feel anything below your neck.

No fear.

No, no fear. That's the thing. They, they have a way of dialing down your nervous system to like, I don't know, like just enough to keep you alive.

Flooding you with endorphins or some feel-good hormone.

It could be something like that. Um, or it could just be, um, that their telepathy is so strong it, it overwhelms your sensory processing ability and your brain, um, just can't process everything coming in. Um, so the only sense that works are my eyes. Um, it could be something like that. So, I mean, I'm, I'm open to any cogent theory that that you know, holds up to scrutiny. Um, so, yeah, so that was that was the first remembered encounter after this encounter. Um, this is obviously now hugely different from this sort of transient glimpse that you had at these four beings rushing out of your room.

Yeah.

Waking up from a dream. You know, you're kind of like, although that might have seemed real to you, what impact did this new experience have on the past one? Did it reinforce it? Were you like, "Holy crap." Like.

Because it was the same kind of creature.

Um, I'm sure they're different individuals.

Sure.

You know, I don't know how long these things live, but this was 26 years later.

Yeah.

Um.

Same, same kind of creature.

Yeah. You know, the, the, you know, his head was about this big, about the size of our head, but tiny little skinny little body and, and wearing black coveralls. And these black coveralls, you know, just they cover everything except their hands and their feet. I don't remember seeing the feet. So, I can't, that's a fuzzy detail, but, uh, you see their hands and their, their feet.

How many fingers?

I don't know. I, I'm, I get the impression it's five, but I don't, I, it, that's a fuzzy detail.

Okay. Because, because when you see them, you're focused on their face.

Of course. Yeah. I mean, I'm not, I wouldn't be counting fingers either. Or maybe I would now, but maybe in that moment I wouldn't.

I mean, if you had Galgadot in front of you, would you be looking at her feet and her hands to see if there's extra fingers or something?

Yeah. Hey, I might be into, I might be more into feet and hands than you know.

You'd be looking at her, her amazing face.

Yeah, probably.

Right.

Um, okay. So, we have this experience now. This is 2020. Yes.

And you proceed to have similar experiences or not similar experiences, but experiences with similar beings for the next four years.

Yeah. And in fact, the very next week I met a tall gray, a young one.

And this is the one floating over you.

Right. A week later, one of the superiors that the, the little guy told me in the garage, one of those superiors that would know about it if they let me remember the visit, one of the superiors showed up.

Yeah. The manager. Yeah, right. But I, I think he was like a junior of some kind because he was shorter than tall grays I would see later on. He was only about five and a half feet tall. Um, but I woke up, uh, exactly one week later and there was a face right in front of mine.

The one on the cover.

Yeah, the one on the cover. And in fact, that was such a powerful moment for me. Um, I had to put it, I had to put that on the cover, even though it.

The cover almost looked sexually suggestive, but it, it wasn't that kind of a situation.

Mhm. He, um, he wanted to position himself without moving me, so his face was in front of mine. I think he wanted me to look him in the eyes.

Um, I woke up and there was light between our bodies. Uh, he wasn't clothed. He had no clothing. I, and I was only wearing my, my, uh, boxer shorts. Um, but, um, they had removed the bedding and he was, he was on top of me right there, just, just the two big eyes. I was intimidated so I couldn't look him directly in the eyes. So I stared at his shoulder, at his right shoulder and, um, and I was just like, "Okay, I'm just going to focus on his shoulder." So, I was looking at the skin tone, the texture, um, the color, and, um, it noticed that I was interested 'cause I had the thought, "I want to, I want to touch his shoulder," and it knew that suddenly I was able to move my left arm. I couldn't move the rest of my body, but I was able to move my left arm. So, I positioned it between the tight space between our chests and I put my hand on on his, uh, right shoulder and I was kind of like massaging, like, I guess, like the shoulder blade area. I don't know if he had a shoulder blade, but I'm just, you know, just that area and it was very tight, insinuated, muscular. There was no subcutaneous fat on this thing at all. And it was like, uh, kind of like leather but slightly bumpier but also smooth. It had, it had more of a texture than fine leather. Um, and then he had a collar bone just like we do and I had my thumb on it and after a while, I, um, I calmed down enough that I, I, I put my hand down and I felt comfortable enough to look him in the eye. And as soon as I looked him in the eye, he leaned forward and he touched his forehead to mine. And I was instantly unconscious when he touched his forehead to mine. Um, just kind of like with the orbs when they touched my forehead, I'm unconscious. And, and suddenly I was in a dream state and I was dreaming this environment of a Bavarian village. We were standing on a cobblestone street. There were, uh, buildings nearby with half-timbered architecture, just like you'd see in downtown Nuremberg or some place like that. Um, um, and so had you ever been to Germany?

Never. But it was gorgeous.

Um, and we were standing beside a, a sloped hill that had a stone, uh, stairway going up it and, and we were on a, a slant and there were cars parked. I don't know why he would put cars in that environment. I, I don't know. But it was, it was, it was just kind of a strange place to be. But we were kind of like on a slanted parking area and, um, and he was there. The, the tall gray was there and he was about 5 and 1/2 ft tall. Um, much shorter than later tall grays I would see. Uh, and then those little skinny bobs, there was three of them that were next to the bed, to the right of me. Uh, they, they were there also, but they appeared as three little girls wearing little blue dresses and blue-eyed and blond-haired. And, uh, but I knew, uh, later on that it was them. But at the time, with the entrancement that they had me in, I thought they were.

Accepting. Yeah.

I'm accepting the illusion right at that time.

Later on, the illusions wouldn't work on me anymore. But at this time, it did.

And, um, and I was confused why we were standing in this area. I was like, "I was just in my bedroom. This doesn't make sense." But this thing's standing in front of me and, um, I was able to ask it a couple questions and I asked him, "What's your name?" And he said, "Sizzlick." And so I bent down to the little girls. I, I had telepathy with him, but I didn't know that the little girls could hear him, too. I didn't know they were telepathic. So I spoke to them. Again, this is all a virtual imposed dream environment. This this wasn't really happening, but I believe the communication was real, but the environment was virtual. So that said, so I'd bent down and I'd talk to the little girl verbally, orally, and I'd say, uh, "He says his name is Sizzle or Silisc." I, I wasn't sure I got the syllables right. Later on, I'd replay it in my mind. It was, yeah, it was, it was Sizzle. Um, and then I, I asked him other questions like, uh, "Are, um, are you from Zeta Reticuli?" That's a very specific question, but, uh, it's because I read about Betty and Barney Hill in the '90s and, uh, Marjorie Fish, this amateur astronomer, uh, took Betty Hill's star map that she saw when, when during her abduction and was able to correlate it to Zeta Reticuli. And then I remember Bob Lazar talking about Zeta Reticuli in the '90s. So that was in my head.

Yeah. Also, I would say before Bob, there was a Bill Herman as well who was told by the beings that they were from Zeta Reticulum as well. So, I asked and he said yes. And I said, "Are you from the fourth planet?" And he said, "Yes." I'm like, "Okay." And again, I asked him something based on something I read. I read about the Project Serpo, those papers. I read those in the '90s also.

Yeah. The Reagan.

Yeah.

Uh, the, the supposed Reagan briefing.

Yeah. That probably wasn't even real, but, uh, but supposedly our military called their planet Serpo. So I asked, "Do you call your planet Serpo?" And he says, "No, we don't call it that." So I was waiting, waiting, waiting. He didn't tell me what, he didn't tell me.

Um, and it's just irritating me because nobody knows. Nobody knows what they call their home world. There's a book by, I mean, there's a few, there's, you know, the, the Arids, obviously, is like another Aerudania, Aerodia, or whatever is the other planet that's.

Star system.

In the vicinity.

Um, but then there's also this story of this guy named Amorei Rivera. I spoke to you briefly about yesterday.

He's this, just this guy in the '80s in Puerto Rico who has this abduction experience with, along with like 14 other people.

Mhm. Being taken to a planet. Um, and the planet that they're taken to is pronounced Ka-ka, essentially.

Almost sounds, uh, Egyptian.

It almost sounds Egyptian. Yeah. And that was a, but it was the letter K in Spanish, which I, or in, yeah, in whatever language they were using. Um, but that was the only other, you know, but then there's, yeah, I mean, there's so many stories. If you look at Wendell Stevens and he covered just a vast amount of, um, contact cases from, you know, UMO to Minga, it, uh, Andromeda, Mirasol, all these different, like places, but also these different star systems and planets that kept coming up, but, yeah, alas, none, none of those.

Were, were offered to.

Yeah.

You're, you're far better studied than I am.

Um.

Um, but, uh, I, I'm, I'm, I'm still new to researching all this stuff. Uh, but so, so I know he's from Zeta Reticuli.

Yeah.

But I couldn't think of any good questions like, "Why are you bothering me?"

Like, you know, and, and at the time I hadn't talked to my mom yet. I hadn't told anybody about the previous week and, and.

If you could go back to that moment, what question would you ask?

If I could ask, if.

You're in that moment right now and you.

They entrance you because they, they don't trust that you won't pick them up and throw them against the wall.

All right, let's take for granted that you won't do that.

All right. And, and you're given an opportunity to.

I want, I want to know what, what, why, why they're bothering my family in particular? Like, what do they find useful about the genes from my family?

The sort of, "Why me?"

Yeah, exactly. Uh, and, um, I suspected that they had bothered my daughter, uh, during one of my encounters. I woke up, uh, afterward, and she was giggling and squealing with delight in her bedroom and I ran in there 'cause I'm like, "They better not be bothering her." And, and I'm like, "Well, maybe she just woke up because her pull-up needed to be changed." I mean, she's an adult wearing diapers because she's severe autism. Um, very low functioning. Uh, so I checked her and she's, her pull-up was bone dry and, and she was able to go right back to sleep. There was no reason for her to wake up. Um, maybe they'd been entertaining her while they were messing with me. I, I don't know. Um, but I just hope that they leave her alone because that would just anger me to no end.

Yeah.

Um, you leave my little girl alone.

Yeah. Did, does it seem, 'cause, um, she's non-verbal.

Um.

She couldn't tell me if they did.

No. Yeah. Does it, do you ever get the impression that, um, and, you know, not to, not to be insensitive, but there is this, you know, telepathy tapes, obviously, which I'm sure you're aware of by now.

It's been mentioned to me and Spellers and things like that. Have, have you ever.

No, that's kind of, that's kind of.

Newish.

Yeah.

You know, because my, my intervention and my advocacy within the autism community goes back more than 20 years. And I, uh, after a while, when I became a single parent, I, I stopped following up every promising intervention because we tried so many and we spent so much money. I spent $60,000 trying to recover my daughter's cognitive abilities to get her closer to her age range so she could have some measure of independence. And, um, I failed. Um, so she's now today, she's living in a group home. I'm an empty nester because I'm too tired to change diapers every day. I, I did it for 16 years by myself. Um, so, but this, this started happening before she moved out of the house. And I was, I was concerned maybe that they were, I don't want them going to her for OA or anything like that. I want them to leave her alone. I'll give them whatever they need. I'll cooperate with them. You leave her the f alone.

Do you think they're aware of you doing interviews right now?

I, I have something to say about that. Um, I posted a couple of signs over the four-year period that they were visiting me. Different.

Different.

Advertisements.

Different messages.

Different messages.

Requests. I said, you know, um, "I remember so much from my encounters with you guys. Why don't you let me be fully awake for the whole thing? I'll cooperate with you. I just wanted to remember everything." And one night I had what felt more like a dream than a waking encounter, uh, where I was asked the question, "What would you do if we allowed you to be fully awake?" And I was in a very honest mood and I said, "Well, oh, I, I'd, of course, I, I'd talk to newspapers and magazines and I would, you know, I would talk about this." You know, you have to talk about this. And, yeah.

Denied.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, but I, I had some waking encounters where they, I think they were experimenting with me. They were letting me be awake for short periods of time, anywhere from 12 seconds to two minutes, depending on on what was going on. If they required my physical cooperation or if they wanted to show me something, it was a longer period of time where I was allowed to be standing on my feet. Um, but they, they kept me it very, very sedated, like cognitively sedated where you're just very passive and agreeable and you, you just do what you're told.

Do you, when you wake up from these experiences, do you feel like an insane amount of fatigue?

Sometimes, like you hadn't slept at all.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I'd wake up, which was very inconvenient because, you know, I have to go to work and, um, even though I go to bed at 8:30, 9:00 at night, you know, I tried to get to bed as early as I can while my daughter was still at home because I never know when she's going to wake me up in the middle of the night to change a pull-up. Um, you know, it was, it was a rough period of time when, as a, as a single father to a child like her. Um, I love her dearly. I mean, she's everything to me, but it, it was stressful. Yeah. Um, so I'd go to bed early every night and, uh, but after an encounter, I'd wake up the next day and I felt like I hadn't slept at all and it's just exhausting. Um, yeah, it's like that.

So, let's go to some of the other encounters that you had after this.

Yeah, there's, uh, some interesting ones because, you know, you were taken to what seems not only like aboard a craft, but also maybe to some type of facility several times.

Yeah. Whether that's underground or whether that's in a giant mother ship, like you wouldn't know. But you were also, they also alluded to the fact that that they have facilities underground.

That's right. Nearby in Illinois. So, let's talk about, before we get to the underground facilities, let's talk about some of the other encounters that you had leading up to that.

Sure. Um, there were just a bunch of little encounters where, like, I'd wake up and I, I, there were four. Uh.

Always four.

Yeah. They always come to me at fours, whether whether it's a mixture of the tall ones and the short ones or all short ones. But, uh, I woke up, uh, and it was very dark in the room and, um, I saw two of them levitating above my bed and trading positions and landing on either side of the bed. So there was, excuse me, so there was four of them, two on each side of the bed, and two of them traded places by levitating over top of me. And while they were levitating.

Take, take a sip. Sorry, my throat gets dry.

You're saying it now and I just got something in my throat.

Yeah. So, while they were levitating, there was like a, a extremely faint green aurora around their bodies and I could make out some details on their faces and they were, they had a like a grin. There was, um, you showed me a few pictures at dinner last night, just before we get into this story, that you are pretty high conviction on in terms of their appearance. One photo was from a video that was deemed fake of this giant sort of gray, terrifying looking, like absolutely haunting. It's so close to accurate. I mean, it's so close. It, it, at first I took it for real video, um, but upon a little doing a little research, I asked Grok, I showed the video and it's like, "Nah, that's fake." And here's the artist's name and this is the software he used. And so I was satisfied with that explanation, but it was close. Whoever made this might have had access to photos or had seen one, I don't know. But it is so close. The, the, the sagittal ridge on on their neck, you know, going down their back a little bit. That that seemed accurate.

They seem muscular, too, a little bit.

Um, their necks are muscular, the tall grays. Um, the older ones have modeled skin, very, very thin skin. Uh, and like I told you before, they have no subcutaneous fat. There's no padding on, on, uh, you know, under their skin. Um, so.

Almost transparent.

Yeah. Uh, now the younger ones have thicker skin where you can see, uh, it's more even skin tone. There's not as much unevenness like modeling, like the blue modeling. Sorry, I think I need a lozenge.

That's fine. Do you want to take a break? We can take a break.

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So these beings, you said they had like these large necks and the in the photo that you showed me.

I mean, you can, you can see some bruising and that's exactly what you kind of described.

Right. The, the older ones are the taller ones, the younger ones are shorter.

Are they the same? Yeah, the Sizzlick was the same as the ones I, I saw in, in other facilities when they'd removed me from my home.

But it means like the little ones, do they grow up to be.

No, no, no, no. The short ones are different species. They're, they're engineered. They're worker bees. Yeah.

Um, the tall ones are the natives from Zeta Reticuli. And the little ones are.

Made in their image.

Right. They're recent. I mean, probably within just the last couple thousand years, they, they came in. But like, but if you go back to like Sumerian days, I don't think they had like the little grays back then. I think they, you know, what you had was like the Akalu and, and these other beings that were revered as gods, but I think they were emissaries for the grays going back, but that's a different theory. Um, but yeah, so we're talking about the skin. Um, the older ones, uh, they have thinner skin. It's more translucent. So you can see that, uh, there's like a dense capillary bed under the skin and, um, that jibes with the detail that we learned, uh, from some reports that they excrete waste and, uh, a lot of times abductees would smell a horrible ammonia smell or a smell of like burnt rubber, sulfur. Um, I never smelled anything in my encounters. Um, maybe it's just they had such mastery over my sensory inputs that I don't remember anything like that. Um, but I, I got a good look at their skin. The, the, the young one that was on top of me and then the older ones, uh, you know, that were really tall. Uh, but their, their skin is designed for, um, uh, excreting waste through these capillaries. Uh, and I believe also that they may be absorbing nutrition, uh, a liquid diet, uh, that they bathe in, that they cover themselves in, that.

So they not only excrete, but it's a two-way street with these pores.

I, I believe that. Yes. Yes. Rather than based on everything I've read. I mean, not, not based on my encounters alone. Based on everything I've read, I'm like a Jenga puzzle. I'm just putting everything together.

I asked yesterday if you'd read the, um, the file on Reddit where this, a molecular biologist came out. Have you read that since or did you glance at it?

Yeah, I did.

Was there anything in there that you thought, "Whoa, this is."

I think most of it jibes with, with what I'm hypothesizing about their physiology, their biology, but I'm fascinated by them because they have such mastery when they take you. They rob you of all agency. You, you can't really control your thoughts. You, you can't control your body. They can make you do things that you, you wouldn't want to do and they do things to you that you would never consent to. Um, so for me, empowerment is aggressively trying to understand them. You know, what makes them tick? Why are they doing this? What's their agenda? Uh, I feel powerless if I don't ask these questions. If I, if I'm not analytical about these things, I don't like them. I don't like them at all. I want them gone. Um, but what can I do?

So, you learn about them.

Yeah, just learn about them. Everything I can. Do you think they're evil?

I think they're desperate. I think that they're trying to survive. And I think they want to come here. I think they want to live here on our planet. And, uh, they can't do so without, uh, borrowing heavily from our, uh, gene pool. Let's get into that a little bit. Let's unpack that. There is, you know, if you look at the story that the molecular biologist on Reddit put out, a lot of that taps into their diet and how they digest food and how they produce waste. It is said, according to him, that with, you know, the fact that they don't have teeth, that they have these small openings as mouths, they have a separate trachea and esophagus, which, by the way, genius.

Um, he said that they mainly would have to, you know, consume a liquid diet high in copper.

Yeah.

Because copper was found to be, you know, in really high content in the blood and.

Yeah.

Um, you have a theory on this, and it's not necessarily a theory that is, it's not, it's not of love and light. I'll tell you that.

No, it's very dark. Um, and I'm, I'm very discouraged by it.

And this is in your, your recent book, uh, The Blood Covenant.

Yeah. It's called A Blood Covenant.

Blood Covenant. The Alien Agenda Behind Civilization and Human Domestication.

So, the idea is that they drink blood.

Uh, or at least consume.

Consume it. Yeah. Not, not orally drink it, but, yeah, consume it. And they've been doing so, um, for millennia. Uh, and they, they used to do it wholesale. Uh, I, I started to notice, uh, as I was looking at ancient astronaut theory because I got into that after 2020 when these things started happening to me. Uh, I became interested in the show Ancient Aliens, which, uh, a lot of times it can be such a silly show and they, they have ridiculous speculation sometimes, but they do a lot right and they, they do look and, and match up, uh, clues from across civilizations, across oceans, all around the world. And they ask a lot of intriguing questions that are worth asking. And, um, so I, I started to look into that and I noticed, um, there were cultural clues linking all of the pyramid building societies around the world. Whether you're talking about the, the American pyramids, you know, whether it's the pyramidal mounds of the Mississippians in Cahokia, Illinois, or the, you know, in Meso and America, like Mexico, you know, Guatemala, you know, these, the Mayans and the Aztecs, these pyramids, um, and, and, and some of these pyramids have, uh, corollaries, almost identical architecture, like in Cambodia. You can compare a Cambodian pyramid against, uh, one in Guatemala and they're nearly identical. And, you know, 8,000 miles of ocean between them and, and we were supposedly not an ocean-faring species at the time. I don't know, this is probably like, uh, 3rd millennium BCE when, when a lot of these pyramids were being built. But anyway, um, I'm, I'm sure I don't get the dates right, but, uh, I, I just started to notice that there were, there was clues that seem to connect the grays through emissaries to these pyramids.

And by emissaries, you mean the gods that they worshiped.

Right. Right. And, uh, and I noticed, you know, and I'm not the first one to notice this. I'm just putting it all together. I'm reading other people's stuff and, you know, none of this is original to me.

Yeah. We're, we're theory crafting.

Right. So what I'm do, what I did with the book was I took ancient astronaut theory, everything I've been reading, everything I've been putting together, and I, I basically assigned all of that to the grays of Zeta Reticuli, whether whether directly or through emissaries. But I, I came to the thought that in the Americas, these pyramid building societies, they, they were highly a typo population, O positive, like more than 73% of the these populations, these American tribal populations are typo. And typo lacks the A and B antigens, uh, and it's, uh, you know, easier in terms of tissue rejection. So, uh, O negative is the best, uh, donor, but O positive is far better than A or B or AB. And, uh, so I noticed every place there was, uh, human sacrifices, blood sacrifice rituals around the world, typo. Like, that's significant. All right, that's something to look at. Uh, and, uh, now in the Middle East, where they, they had animal sacrifices, but there you have high populations of A and B antigens and not as much O in the Middle East, you know, like the, you know, the Hebrews and, you know, they're not type O. So it, I'm like, "Okay, but they're, they, they revered cattle, but they didn't eat cattle." And I'm thinking, "That's kind of interesting." I stuck that in the back of my mind. And then, uh, the Egyptians revered cattle too, but they didn't really eat cattle. Uh, and, and then with, with the, in recent, you know, years with the cattle mutilations, like the work of Linda Molton Howe and stuff, these animals are completely exanguinated, uh, when their carcasses are dumped and, and, and certain tissues are removed that appear to be with high heat instruments, like a laser, some kind. Um, so I, I'm just, I wonder if there's a connection.

And then that kind of led me to this idea of blood consumption. Like, why, why were the Mayans and the Aztecs giving blood to their gods? Why, why would God demand, you know, that you kill a certain number of people? And I realized, well, look, they, they all have like, they, they've got these pyramids. They have similar writings, similar agriculture, all these things. They have all these the similar trappings of society, you know, that brings them together. I'm like, "Well, what if they were domesticated in order for to more efficiently harvest them, uh, for their O blood?" And, um, so that kind of led to the idea and so I started to look, "Okay, so what, what if they do need to consume blood for nutrition?" Um, so then I started to look at their, their physiology, their biology. I'm, I'm not a biochemist. I'm not a.

What's your blood type?

Uh, I think I may be positive. Yeah. Uh, they seem to like A and B for breeding and O for consumption. So, if you're type O or O negative, uh, and you're in the wilderness camping alone in, in UFO hotspots, you might disappear and never come back. H, that's, uh, yeah, it's a creepy thought.

Yeah, it is kind of, but, uh, it's just a theory. And so how does, so, okay, they're consuming bovine blood because of the close genetic resemblance to human blood. I believe what they're doing is because these days they can't just demand, "Okay, we need 200 people's worth of blood." You know, they, they can't go to the Mayans or the Aztecs anymore and say, "Give us blood."

Right.

You know, in exchange for favors.

Uh, they can't do that in mass anymore. I think what happened was maybe they were being overharvested at the time, uh, back when the Mayans just abandoned their cities overnight. That could be because they were being overharvested and they freaked them out and there was, the blood covenant wasn't worth the exchange anymore. So they, they abandoned these cities that they were inspired to create.

Uh, just a theory.

It's wild, right? It's, it's, you know, you mentioned this too last night, but it's the closest thing to like vampiric folklore that we have.

Right. Well, they can't be in sunlight. They have very thin skin with a dense capillary bed right under this, uh, translucent skin. They would burn horribly in sunlight. So, you'll never see a tall gray out in the sunshine. Um, the, the small, the short grays, the little worker bees, they have a little bit of padding under their skin, a little bit of subcutaneous fat. They have the ability to be in sunlight for short periods, not as long as you or I could.

Like a, like a familiar.

Yeah, they're, but they're, they're able to tolerate our biosphere better. And I think they're engineered.

That way.

To that way in order to do the home invasions and take people like me out of my bed. So, what's your best theory on why it is they are here? Because, you know, I'm sure there's.

Nutrition elsewhere. What's, what's, what's so special about here? Why, why do you think the Zetas come here?

It's a huge, it's a huge conversation unto itself, but I'll, I'll give you the cliff notes. I think that they, um, I think that their planet, uh, is smaller than Earth. That's why they're taller. Um, and if you look at their, their.

Wouldn't that make them smaller?

Uh, no. They, lower gravity, they.

Lower gravity, but if you put a shark in like an aquarium, the shark is smaller. Do you know what I mean? Like if, if the, um, if the environment is less conducive to having large things on it, you know what I mean? Wouldn't that make them.

I don't think, no, because I mean, you're, there's still a lot of surface area on a planet bigger than Mars, but smaller than Earth. There's still a lot of surface area, but it, it's a, so they likely come from a lighter gravity environment, so they're taller or more oxygen.

Um, now why, why do they have these big black eyes with these black lenses over their eyes and, and, you know, why, why are they so pale, uh, and, and can't be out in sunlight? Well, probably because they're adapted to be indoors or underground. And why would they be underground? Well, what if they lost their magnetic field? Because their planet is smaller than Earth, that may have cooled off a long time ago. They might have lost their magnetic field and, uh, subject to cosmic and solar radiation on their planet. So they might have had to have adapted to underground conditions and, um.

So, over time.

So over time, they, they, they, they optimized their genetics to, uh, to be in a different type of biosphere underground. So, um, but then I'm thinking, okay, well, if they're adapted for living underground on their own planet, why are they coming here? Well, what if, what if there's there's some other clues that that really intrigued me, um, related to the loss of their magnetic field? Now, do you remember what Bob Lazar said when, uh, he read these briefing papers at S4?

Yeah. Containers.

Right. That the, the military reported that the grays considered humans as containers and we were given religion so that we wouldn't damage the containers. Um, and he speculated, but he, he doesn't really stand beside this firmly, like, but he was speculated, "Well, maybe they meant containers of souls, you know, or containers of blood since they consume blood." But they, it, they, they could grow a, a blood factory or something if they like.

That's what I would assume, too. Yeah. They could just find some other means of nutrition.

Right. But, but so.

Right. Exactly. So I'm thinking, well, it has to be more about the souls. Okay, so what's so great about our planet? Well, we still.

have a magnetic field. Well, what if, now think about this, when a person is living, they have an active um nervous system with electrical activity. What if that is the anchor like a Faraday cage, like an electrical anchor that keeps a soul in the body? And when you die, your nervous system just the the electrical activity ceases and then the soul just escapes the body and goes somewhere. Well, where's it going to go if it needs to be um in in in some kind of an EM field or electrical activity around it? Well, wouldn't it naturally go into the Earth's magnetic field? Wouldn't that be like what we call heaven or or the light at the end of the tunnel? Maybe that's the bioplasma, you know, of of the earth's magnetic field. So what what if it's like alive with consciousness uh as like a way station between incarnations?

So >> So what if >> let's just say for the sake of argument that that is a thing that that that mechanism actually exists. >> So what would happen on their planet after they lost their magnetic field? >> The other souls would just go out into the ether, >> right? So, you would need to be able to develop the ability to >> to trap it and transfer it into a a a new cloned body cuz they're obviously they don't they don't reproduce sexually. Um, so you have to you have to be able to either move their soul from a a dying body into a new clone body. And and some some um author researchers have have spoken to abductees who have who have witnessed supposedly allegedly uh >> soul transfer >> soul transfer right so what if they had that >> and Tom Dong even talked about that at one point >> right I now I know nothing about that >> but I'm just taking that as a data point >> yeah we're lore mashing we're we're taking we're taking you know things and we're theory crafting I like it >> right so so what I'm suggesting is that what if they were losing souls to migration what if the souls that every time a gray died, a tall gray died, its soul couldn't enter the magnetic field. It was too weak or it was gone. What if it migrated over to Earth? And what if most of their souls so every time one of uh you know they would try to bring to life one of their their clones from its chamber or whatever they grow it in um gestate it in. Um, what if it doesn't achieve consciousness because there's no soul to enter it and so their population dwindled and they had to come here in order to like reclaim what they lost to migration. What if those souls migrated to the earth >> to the closest nearest magneettosphere? >> Now this is the most woo stuff you're ever sure because I like to stay grounded in in scientific >> I like this theory. Um I think it's fine. Um, so are you saying that if someone gave birth in the ISS, it would be like a stillborn, soulless child? >> Well, no. The soul's available on on the ISS because there's there's the magnetic field is still around. >> And what if you were like >> it's still >> behind the moon. >> But no, I don't think that would hurt it because it's still like >> it's still close enough in proximity, >> right? But but if >> but there is a point in space where you get to >> if you're talking 39 12 light years. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Maybe maybe distance becomes an issue. Again, this is just >> Yeah, sure. Sure. I'm just saying >> pie in the sky speculation. I'm I'm not an expert on the grays. I'm I'm trying to become one. >> Yeah, of course. >> But I I'm But >> no, I'm I'm with you. Um Okay. So, let's say now that let's say this is real. They lose their magneettosphere. They lose their ability to incarnate and they have to sort of manually transfer souls. And it sounds really sad and and desperate. >> That's why I said they're desperate. >> Yeah. And you know to come here and then so what is the purpose of the hybridization in that case? >> Well um they don't trust us. Now, if you'll remember what uh Whitley Strieber said, uh what he was told by the grays is that uh vocal or voiced uh sentient species don't last very long >> because uh we lack a deeper empathy that is necessary to avoid uh self-destructive behaviors like our wars and and our everinccreasingly powerful weapons like nuclear weaponry. Um so so he was told that you know only only the telepathic species have a chance to have a long legacy. Um so I think that we have been judged as uh as um >> primitive >> well not >> harmful >> like not not viable for for the long term. >> I see. Yeah. Okay. So therefore, not worth an investment, worthy of replacement. I think homo sapiens will be replaced by this new hybrid species that the grays are creating. The grays are planning their own extinction. They know that they can't be a parasitic, bloodconsuming uh species, you know, forever. Um and and they can't just live underground forever. And they I think they're they're creating a species that can live on the surface biosphere, you know, be exposed to the sunlight, uh be exposed to the pathogens by becoming mostly human themselves. So, you know, how we're separated by the chimpanzees by only like 1 and a.5% of our of our DNA. Uh, you know, chimpanzees share 98 and a half% of the same DNA or maybe it's 97. I'm not sure exactly the number, but they're mostly human. So, it's just that that last little bit, the few percentage of DNA makes us what we are. >> Makes all the difference, >> right? So, they're they're our genetic cousins as a result of that close association. Um whereas a banana only has 50% of our DNA. That's crazy. >> It's pretty close. >> It is. >> I know a few bananas. >> Yeah. I mean, have you proper thoughts about eating that banana? It's cannibal cannibalism. No, I'm just kidding. So, um, so the idea is that they're they're planning their own extinction by merging with us and when the last tall gray dies out, uh, you know, then that'll be it. How do the how do the Nordics fit into this? Or not even just the Nordics, but how do the humanlooking hybrids? Because if you look at David Jacob's work which you cite in your book um you know David was a firm believer through his studies of hypnotic regression uh that there was a transitional there was multiple I think five transitional phases between the human and the hubid which is the human hybrid that looks identical. Yeah. >> And you know as it nears the hub it gets more and more looks more and more and starts acting more and more like a human. But at first you have these eggheheaded, you know, genderless like weird bizarre and there's this whole kind of crude and and and homely version of a human between these two. What's going on there? Why are they trying to What's your best guess as why they're trying to look like us? Well, what if what if the the grays uh were anticipating the loss of their world as as their magnetic field got weaker and weaker and they knew about the the the problem with the soul bleed off uh and migration and what if they were preparing for that over the long term? So they they they come to Earth, they find Homo erectus and start to uh modify it. >> Sure. Uh what if they were trying to create a platform that would be uh uh more suitable for hybridization with so it was a long game. So what if they started to you know homo erectus and then it becomes you know a newer species and until they get to sapiens. So now homo sapiens is finally a uh a platform upon which they can do the final change and blend with us, merge, converge with us and and then uh homo sapiens um you know already our our birth rates are declining all over the world. Um, you know I I think our population will contract but at some point we are going to be swept aside. Um, I it's just just a theory. >> Yeah. I mean, according to many experiencers and abductees it seems to be the case as well. Like there are a lot of people who go on board these craft and who are you know allegedly apparently talking to these entities who tell them things like you are part of a chosen group. Your time will come soon. Your doing good work and you'll be rewarded when this all happens. Like all of this sort of foreshadowing and this >> apocalyptic talk and imagery that's sent to >> um were you ever given I know you talk about it a little bit in the book but at one point >> you were told I think by one of the tall grays to put away the nukes like we have to put away the nukes yeah there was a tall gray um and we were walking side by side I was completely confused and out of it um and I actually argued with He he said, "You have to get rid of your nuclear weapons." And I don't I didn't know the context why he would say that to me. And I was only conscious for 25 seconds. But I argued with him. I said, "We'd be giving up our strategic uh uh you know, our mutual deterrent." >> Um, you know, so we we can't just give it up, you know, at least not, you know, unilaterally. We can't do that. But as a species um we might have a chance to do that actually once um once AI and robotics are able to create enough abundance for everybody that that nations don't have to compete for resources against each other. We might have an opportunity to get rid of our uh mutual deterrence at that point. Um, so long as uh we we have like really good cyber security and and we can keep AIS from being corrupted by by foreign nations. Um, but uh but I don't think they have faith in us and I think they're phasing us out and I think it's soon. But why? >> I don't I don't want to be a doomsayer. I'm not I'm not saying the end is near. I'm not I'm not on a street corner with a sign. No, but why? What I'm asking is like clearly they have the ability to intervene and and stop us from doing whatever. If they can control you and do, you know, make you do horrible things or do unspeakable things to you without your consent, right, >> then they can make you do anything. And and so the argument always stands, why wouldn't they just intervene? Why wouldn't they just shut? >> Because I think they're desperate. Now, now you you brought up the Nordics. Um, there's there's a legend that said that uh Eisenhower was offered two deals, >> right? >> Uh one from the grays that said, you know, in exchange for uh permission to >> genetic abduct humans and cattle uh from a set list, you know, uh which I don't think they stuck to that list at all. But in exchange for the the the right to abduct human and cattle within the United States, uh we will provide the technology >> technology to the military. Um, so there was that deal and then there's there's a story about how the Nordics were offering to we're going to we'll get rid of the grays for you. You know, they're no good. Um, you know, they're they're not good for you people. Uh we but uh and and we can we can help you achieve world peace but uh but it would come with like less freedom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Put away the right. I I don't know much about that story. I didn't >> Mhm. And we were very trigger happy when and during that time I mean >> if if ever there was a time >> where we wouldn't have given up nukes, >> it was the Cold War. Like I mean worst time >> to offer up a deal like that if you're the Nordics by the way, right? >> Like like wait a wait a few decades because at that point you know we had just discovered the uh the atomic bomb and we had just discovered that other countries are also making the atomic bomb. Not a time to put down the nukes. >> What if the Nordics have continued to warn us about the grays? We we saw that uh that crop circle the crabwood crop circle. >> Yeah. >> In 2002. Yeah, beware of the Zetas, >> right? So, they had a an image and you could put this in in post post-production, but they it was an image like a half te image of a of a a tall gray uh face and and there was like this circular uh binary message >> uh >> and the and the Orion star system, >> right? And and they were warning us, you know, uh you know, basically calling them liars. >> Beware beware of bears of false truth, >> right? Or false gifts. false gifts. Um and then um >> yeah, don't trust the Zetas or something. Beware of the Zetas or >> Yeah, I but you know, much pain but still time. I mean, that was part of it. >> Um, so it it was a warning saying it's not too late. Uh but maybe we've just ignored it too long. But but now I've been hearing now not ever since I reported my case to MUON, I've I've kind of cozied up with uh the Illinois MUON people and I've attended some of their meetings and I've even been to the symposium uh last year and I I plan to go this year. But I heard how the military is now actively shooting down little scout crafts. um that that fly over our airspace using uh microwave high-powered microwaves. Uh they discovered in the ' 40s and it it's said that the Roswell crash may have been caused when two discs passed too close to a high-powered radar station. And um the thought is that the these high-powered microwaves from the radar um interrupt the flight envelope, the field propulsion around their craft and um it would veer off course and and crash into something um if that's true. >> Sure. And I don't know, uh I'm not I'm not an insider, but if that's true, then um they may have since developed uh more directed energy weapons uh designed to uh directly uh pull down these these smaller scout craft uh and and fill their coffers, you know, their secret bases, their S4s. >> Mhm. >> You know, I'm sure that's not the only base like that. >> No, definitely not. you know, friend of ours here, UAP Gerb. He's pretty much on top of anything and everything regarding, you know, dums across the country. Um, so let's talk about dums for a second. Deep underground military bases, but not only military, not only human military, but what seems to be, you know, um, according to one of the messages you've received, >> Yeah. that there are these cave systems, that there are these cavernous systems on Earth filled with life, like that's where they live. I became frustrated. Uh we hadn't yet uh addressed uh you know the offspring that they were creating from my from my genes. Um, but uh I was I was shown um images on a wall of of like probably 20 or more of my offspring of various ages from you know infancy to adulthood and and I was also shown a small baby during an encounter um crawling on a metal table and they said he's yours but he has a genetic problem and we need you know you're here to provide us the tissues that we need to correct the problem. Um, so anyway, I was upset with them because the the baby that they showed me I suspected was was a stolen pregnancy uh from a relationship I had had back in 22 and and I was I was rather emotional. >> What do you mean by a stolen pregnancy? Can you clarify? >> I I had a girlfriend that uh we conceived a child. She lost the pregnancy in her ninth or tth week. The child would have been born on or around my birthday in January of 2023. And um and we had broken up since then. Um >> you believe the child that you were shown to be that baby? >> The only reason why I suspect it, I don't know it, is that uh I was shown the baby in June of 2023 and it was 6 or 7 months old. So, if they had taken the child from her womb and if they had artificially just dated it and it was born on or around January of 23, then it was the right age to have been hers and mine. >> Did you have did you know the sex of the baby? >> Well, it was mine. He told me it was mine. >> But Oh, it was a boy >> uh while while being pregnant. >> Oh, no, no, no, it was it was only 9 or 10 weeks. So, we didn't we didn't determine the gender. Oh, is it 12 weeks for you to determine or is it 9 weeks? >> I but I we we didn't we didn't do that. >> You know, uh but when when she miscarried the child, >> um the fluid fil sack and the um the embryo wasn't in the tissues that were passed. >> Uh visiting the obstitrician, they determined there was nothing left in the uterus. She was healthy, but they had determined that she was pregnant. Um, so it it's a suspicion. It's it's >> ghost pregnancy type deal. >> Yeah. Uh, the same thing happened to my mother. Um, she wasn't presented with a a strange child, but uh, she had a miscarriage before I was conceived in early 1968. She had a miscarriage. Um, and again, the the fetus was missing from that. So maybe that was related because she was that was a period of time when she >> sure >> was likely being visited. So um it again I I don't know this uh >> Yeah. No, you only got what you >> Yeah. >> what you remember. >> Yeah. So um >> so this baby's on on this medical table. >> Yeah. And uh and he said he's yours, but he has a genetic problem and you're here to give us the tissues we need to correct it. Um, and then I was only conscious for 35 seconds some. I mean, just very short period of time. But I was I I woke up in a standing position and there was this very tall man. I saw him as a man, but later on I realized I was a tall gray, but he was like 7 and 1/2 ft tall. And there there's very few people, you know, outside of professional sports that are that tall. Um, but uh I thought he was a air traffic control uh personnel person. Uh and we were in a round room circumferenced by uh vertically uh short windows that were very long uh all all around us and I would say the room was about 50 to 60 feet in diameter. >> Was a round room. >> A round room. I thought it was an air traffic control tower. I mean, that was the entrancement made me think it was something familiar, but it was could have been a craft. It could have been a UFO. Uh because it didn't look like normally like if I'm in one of their facilities, I'm in a a square room with gray walls. So, um this wasn't like that. This this was very much it could have been a craft, you know, a a large UFO. >> And then what did they show you >> after that? Was there >> they just showed me the child? And then and then I went unconscious. But um so Oh, you're talking about later. So I asked them, "Where where are my my children, my offspring? Where are they being kept? Where do you keep them?" And they showed me a gray wall >> and the wall became a view screen. It was just a gray metallic Peter gray wall. Everything I That's why I think that they're they're monochromatic with their vision. They don't they don't have any colors. The only colors I've seen are gray, white, and black in any of their facilities. So, um, so this became a screen and there was a map and it and it showed the the United States, the 48 contiguous states with the state division lines drawn in. I found that very surprising, but maybe that was for my benefit. Um, and then they zoomed in on Illinois and surrounding areas, and I could see under the surface of this map. Now, it was a monochromatic map. It was very gray, you know, and it was like line art and um, but it was 3D. So, I saw caverns under eastern Illinois. Um, at the northern end, they were about even with the bottom tip of Lake Michigan, and at the southern end, they were as far south as Peoria, Illinois. And I've mapped out on my uh book website um the counties that are over top these areas. And um I estimate based on the scale that the caverns were uh there. So there was three caverns. There was two parallel to one another at the same depth and one between them deeper down. And so the two top caverns were about a third of a mile underground. um which with the geothermal gradient would probably put it about 75 80° Fahrenheit comfortable for human habitation and then below that uh I'd say close to half a mile underground. So you had the the three and they almost looked like bananas because they they looked like rounded um triangles the way that they were constructed and at the southern ends they sloped downward and and I was thinking about that. I'm like well that kind of makes sense cuz you could have groundwater runoff uh you know within the caverns with the sloping downward and also heavier gases like CO2 would sink down to that. So you have better air flow uh circulation within the caverns. Um I I fed the design of of the the caverns into um chatpt and it did a forensic analysis and it it told me that's actually a good design >> uh for caverns. And then I said, "Okay, well is there anything in the geological record that that would prove that they're not there?" And um it didn't find anything. It said, "Well, there's some there's some oil production south of there uh in further down south and southern Illinois. Uh but there's there's no known caverns, but the uh the type of bedrock in that area is ideal for caverns. >> It's said that it's primarily doone, which is uh >> and dolomite. >> It's it's it's a limestone that's high in magnesium. Uh so it's very strong so it can support caverns and and that kind of stone has been used for uh >> countertops and >> well sure but I'm but I'm talking about uh underground uh installations >> like walls and stuff. >> Yeah. So so there there's um >> Yeah. So um so when I was looking at that uh I also I also realized that Illinois is geologically very stable. There's not a lot of earthquake activity. Um, you have the New Madrid fault uh not too far away, but it it it's been pretty quiet for the most. >> Have you visited that area or do you plan on visiting that area? >> Well, it's I've I've driven over that area several times, but um, but another advantage to that it it's close to a freshwater source. >> Sure. >> Lake Michigan. >> Yeah. Great place to park your vehicle as well. >> Yeah. >> Right. I mean, we hear so many stories of like these things coming out of lakes. >> Yeah. Um, especially Lake Michigan being a massive lake itself. I mean, >> yeah, there might be bases under the lake, too. >> That's what I'm saying. >> But, um, oh, they found they found a a stone hedge >> in Lake Michigan >> under uh Traverse Bay in Lake Michigan. >> Yeah, >> there you go. Um, I mean, that's that's really interesting. I'd be I'd be interested to see the correlation with the per capita amount of abductions or sightings or experiences in that specific area versus the surrounding areas. If there's anyone in that area listening to this right now, which is exactly which area? This is eastern Illinois. >> Eastern Illinois running parallel to the Indiana border, just west of the Indiana border. >> So, if you're from that area, comment below. Let me know if you've had any runins. I'd be I'd be curious. Muon has an app I think uh or there's an app that that has like uh little dots on maps of UFO sightings. >> Yeah, but there's a lot of people out there that don't >> Yeah, that's true. >> reach out to me find probably more people >> than do you know. >> Uh but you you'd be surprised at the at some of the comments. You know, people through anonymity can uh can just come out and say, you know, well, actually there is something going on there or we did have a sighting in a in a lake. I I would I would love to have those caverns disproven or proven. Either way, I just want >> I'm creeped out by the thought that there may be tens of thousands of hybrids living underground beneath our feet in Illinois. >> What do these hybrids look like, do you think? >> I I don't know. I can't I can I anytime I image >> I think they're mostly human. >> Yeah. Um, you know, maybe they have slightly bigger eyes, but um, if they're bred for the surface, I I don't think they'd be given much bigger eyes than we have. >> Yeah, they'd be similar to us, >> right? Because you'd want the the, you know, the shielding, you know, you want the brow ridge and and uh, like we have and and you'd want uh, you'd want the shielding from from sunlight and Yeah. So, uh, I I think they would be similar, but the way they would differ is they would have larger heads, larger craniums, and neurology more closely reflecting that of the tall grays >> because you'd want the tall because they would want them to be telepathic because, you know, like they said to Whitley Striber, they don't believe that vocal or voiced uh sensient species, you know, can last very long. Um, so these may not even be capable of of human speech as we know it. Um, or maybe they can. Maybe they could do both. But I have a feeling um, you know, if you ever meet one that it would be telepathic. Do you have any plans on going out there and doing some research for yourself? >> Yeah, let me let me get a oil drilling crew. And >> we don't oil drilling, but I mean we have >> to find a cavern down there. >> We have technology. Oh, well, yeah, but um it I asked Chad GPT what it would take to detect or map those caverns >> because they're so far down, >> right? It would it would cost millions of dollars. >> Significant technology. >> I mean, you could detect voids down there probably for less money, but if you want to map the whole thing, it would cost a lot of money. So, you'd need somebody like Elon Musk who could just write a check and not miss the money at all. >> Well, he's boring tunnels right now as we speak, so you never know. He might come across one of these things eventually. >> Well, yeah. Don't don't bore a tunnel in in Eastern Illinois. You you might that >> just be ready for anything. >> I mean, it would I think that would be disclosure is Elon Musk boring into a hybrid facility. >> I think that's how we get disclosure. >> But I I was I was nervous to talk about the caverns when I first started writing the book >> for fear of disclosure. for fear of like >> No, for fear of like Well, you know, if there's caverns or if there isn't caverns under Eastern Illinois, that's testable, right? >> Yeah. >> So, if somebody were to take uh me seriously enough to investigate, that's testable. And um wouldn't they throw out my whole story if if one aspect of the story? So, I I hesitated, but I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to tell it all. Yeah. I'm just going to tell everything I saw, everything I encountered, but I'm going to stay in my lane. If if I have a theory or an idea about something, I'm not going to say I'm the expert and and this is how it is. I'm going to tell you, all right, this is just a theory. This is just ideas that I've I've plucked and I put together because I think it could be this way. Sure. >> Um, but in terms of like what I firmly believe, I'm going to stay in my lane and I'm going to stick to what I encountered, what I experienced, which you believe is the gray zetas. >> Yeah. Um, is there do you leave any room in your mind whatsoever for the implication that they may be just that the phenomena might be something totally different, but that it appears to you in this way? Is there is there any of that that you reserve because there is there's so many stories that tell a different story slightly of the whether it's the appearance of the creatures or whether it's you the motives are similar but um >> well I I mean there there's been encounters with other species you know there the mantis the manted beings >> even among the grays like even if you look at um Patty and Barney Hill who you mentioned earlier it's different uh they have different slit like eyes and there's uh different um >> well there's I believe that the zeta grays seated other gray species on other planets. >> I see. >> Uh and so you have the big-nose grays. Uh Linda Molton How talked about this in a documentary I saw >> Samrian guys, >> right? The the big-nose grays are the ones behind the Sumerian gods. Uh I think they were engineering uh emissaries. Um but I think that the Zeta Grayes were the puppet masters for these others. So, you have the Glei grays, the ones from the I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, Glei or Gleasa. Uh that that look they they have the epicanthic eyefold that makes them look almost Asian, >> right? >> Um >> Yeah. The ones in Aztec similar to those. >> Yeah. >> But they had little noses, too. >> Yeah. So, so there's there's different species of grays and I don't discount other people seeing those, but I didn't see those types. I didn't see a manted being. I didn't see any reptilians, but there was one type of creature that I uh perceived to be a doctor uh on one of their facilities. And I woke up in a standing position in a gray room. Uh, and there was a a cylinder in the middle of the the room uh from the floor to the ceiling connecting and there was like a eight or nine foot tall doorway and it was brightly lit from inside but the room itself was dark and there was a dozen or 18 I don't know how many tall grays very tall grays like 7 8 ft tall in the back of the room observing me interacting with what I thought was a doctor and it was a much smaller creature but it wasn't a short gray It wasn't a Skinny Bob. It was something else. It had darker skin. I can't remember the color. I can't remember his face because it was some kind of screen memory where I kept trying to see it as human, but it it it appeared like a frog. So, so my brain is thinking, well, what human looks like a frog. And so I thought of the actor Wallace Shawn. >> Inconceivable. >> I'm not gonna pull him up, by the way. Poor Wallace. >> I love that guy. I love No, he's great. I mean, he's one of my favorites, but um but so I am like, okay, well, it's obviously not him. Um but this thing had big cheeks and and big bulbous eyes and kind of a punch belly like sticking out, >> not unlike what you described, >> right? So, and it had very long fingers with like pads on the ends. And it was I woke up in a standing position and this thing was cupping my testicles. I was naked and I was upset because when he touched me down there, I felt uh like waves of of like electricity moving up into my kidneys and it was uncomfortable and um and I don't know what he was interested in, but he was checking me out like diagnosing something and then um I'm like, "Why are you touching me down there?" I was like giving him a hard time. I was being belligerent, but I was kind of half out of it, too. I was just annoyed. I don't like being woken up and taken out of my bed and showing up in some strange place. You know, I'm not going to be nice to you. Um, so I was belligerent being belligerent toward this thing and it stood up and walked and and uh toward this cylinder in the middle of the room and went into the lighted door and I I was standing there and and I was looking and the grays were still the tall grays were still watching me just kind of like chatting amongst themselves and I could hear their telepathy between them. M >> it was a little bit annoying, but I I ignored it for a while and then this creature came out again, but I perceived it to be a different doctor. Like maybe that one got sick of me, you know, bashing it. Um so I thought it was a different doctor. So then I'm like, "Oh yeah, that other doctor, he was like touching my balls and he was I don't know why I was talking. I was so focused on that, you know, like cuz it was a violation and I I didn't like it. And um so um he led me to these benches like he was sitting on a bench and I was standing near the other bench originally, but he made me sit down on the bench and then he had had these very long spindly arms and he stuck it on my abdomen and he was kind of moving his hands up and down and he said, "You have an enemy inside you, but you're going to feel better in a few days." And I didn't understand what he meant. But while he was talking to me, I and I was trying to like talk back to him. And those tall grays in the background, they were they were, you know, it was like gibberish to me. I didn't understand what they were saying to each other. But there was more than a dozen voices all at the same time. And I I was getting upset with them because their telepathy >> was interfering >> was interfering with with I you know, I was but I was vocally trying to talk to this doctor. Now, I wasn't trying to use telepathy with them. I was vocally talking to them, but I could hear them perfectly. So, I got annoyed with them. And I I'm like I did this like, "Shut up. Go away." And they all shut up at the same time simultaneously like like a switch had gone off. And then they turned around their backs to me and they went further back against the wall deeper into the shadows where I couldn't see them. And then I could see their shoulders rotating just enough that I knew that they were turning back around to look at me. But they were observing. Why were they there? Why would all of these people take time out of whatever they're doing in this facility to sit here and gawk at me naked with this doctor thing? It I didn't understand why. Like why am I so interesting? >> Ungable. Unlockable. >> There's no way. Like I I think instantly when I hear that of like what the feeling would be like pulling a fish out of water, you know, being like in the fish going what is all this? >> What is all this? And and why are they looking at me, you know, like what's so interesting that they have to stand? Are they like student doctors, >> you know, observing? But anyway, when I woke up, uh I because after after he said that thing to me and after I shoot off those other people, uh I went unconscious and then when I woke up, I was back at home. I was in my bed and suddenly my gird was gone and these sharp pains that I used to have in my stomach were gone and and I'm like there's no pressure, there's no pain. I push on my belly, there's it's gone. And but he said I had an enemy inside of me. When he said it originally I I thought he said an enemy. I'm like sea urchin. >> An an enemy. >> An an enemy. And I'm like cuz I it just the way the syllables came out. I'm like an an enemy. What are you talking about? Sea urchin. And and then and I replayed what he said in my mind. Oh, enemy. Okay. Um so I woke up and I felt better instantly. I had the gird for years and and earlier that year uh or actually the previous I started having like really sharp stomach pains the same time my girlfriend was having them. Well, hers ended up being a type of cancer that you know that she had treated and she's fine. >> But um so it made me think, well, did I have stomach cancer or cancer somewhere in my gut? Yeah, some type of >> um but when he was done touching my my abdomen, he slumped. He collapsed into his chair and he slumped and he had this the saddest look on his face like he was completely exhausted. I I thought maybe I was just insulting him so much and just giving him such a hard time that he he was, you know, just like sad, but or maybe because he was healing me in some way, >> just depleted. >> I depleted him because it was a bad enough problem. Maybe I had some kind of cancer and he took care of it cuz he called it an enemy inside me. I don't Maybe he he lacked the vocabulary to call it anything else, >> you know? Maybe he he wasn't a native English speaker and and they have the technology to think whatever they think and then I'm it's perceived on my end as English. >> It's translated with your mind. >> I don't know how I'm not even going to speculate. >> Yeah. Or maybe he's like some alien witch doctor. >> Yeah. I don't know. But uh but it was it was a different kind of creature and I can't remember its face. >> That's the only other like you never met any mantids, never any humanoids, never any half breeds or >> nothing like that. >> Yeah. Wow. Just just just the two types of grays I've only remembered. >> What was the last experience you had? >> March of 2024. >> Whoa. That's almost 2 years ago. Exactly. >> Yeah. It was uh I went to bed having had a couple of whisies. I had uh two u cocktails. They were called Oldfashions. You know, it's got simple syrup in it and some cherry juice and uh bitters and uh and I like to smoke them with oak oak wood. I would have back then I would have a drink maybe once a week on a weekend. Uh or if I really was enjoying the drink, I might make myself a second one because I was enjoying that that slight buzz then just watching a movie and relaxing. Uh don't have to drive, don't have to be anywhere. Just so I'd have a second one. Sure. And uh so I went to bed a little little happy, a little inebriated and uh fell asleep right away. Um, and I woke up and I was in a uncharacteristically brightly lit white room. White, which is weird. Normally it's gray. And uh and I was sitting on a like a reclined cushioned I' say a chair of some kind. And uh I was surrounded by uh three tall grays. And the two that were closest to me were uh talking amongst themselves. But I I couldn't understand. and it was like gibberish to me and then they were trying to talk to me. They looked directly at me and um they said uh said something I I couldn't understand it. But then finally some words came through that I could understand and it was you shouldn't drink alcohol. And I was insulted by that because it's not like I'm I'm an addict or an alcoholic. You know, I I uh I have one drink a week. Sometimes two weeks goes by, 3 weeks and then I'll have another one. You know, it's like that. Um, so I was insulted that they would tell me what to do. I don't like being told what to do. I don't even like bosses telling me what to do. >> Yeah. Uh, so, so I swore at them. I said, "F you." You know, I haven't had a drink in two weeks since that Thursday, two weeks ago. And I think they didn't like that I said that. And they kind of looked at themselves and they looked back at me and then I went unconscious. And um in the next ensuing few weeks, I decided to make myself another drink. And I made uh the same cocktail, the same type of old-fashioned. And when I went to drink it, I hated it. It tasted off. It tasted weird. I just didn't like it. And and I felt I look at the drink like it had betrayed me in some way. Like what what's with you? And um and ever since then, I've lost any desire whatsoever to ever relax using alcohol. It's gone. It's just gone. And uh now if I'm with friends or family and we're having pasta and there's red wine being passed around, I'll have a glass, but I don't like the feeling of a buzz anymore. I don't even like it. Even that relaxed feeling, I feel like I've completely lost my desire for that. And I used to love it. >> I mean, if they're harvesting you in any capacity, I mean, it is in their best interest to have you stop drinking. Right. >> Right. I guess. Right. And and um and maybe it was contributing to my ill gut health and which they just fixed. >> Right. We paid a lot of money for this alien witch doctor, >> right? >> Um so you had some type of intergalactic intervention. >> Um >> that's a funny way to put it. Uh I mean, are you and that's that's 2 years ago and since then you've just not even >> I I had during 2024 I had a few impressions >> where I might have had an encounter the night before but I had no memory of it. >> Okay. >> It was just an impression cuz you talked about these waves of 20 years 4 years 20 years four years. >> Are you you feel like this is the end of that fouryear interim that term? >> Yeah 2020. So, it started in 2020 that I'm aware of >> and then it ended in 2024. So, I don't expect them back for another 18 years. >> Um, if they come back, I mean, >> like my would I still be a viable donor? >> Sure. >> In my 70s >> or or maybe they're just looking to see what happens, you know, to their experiment. Yeah. >> What um in 18 years time you're going to think of a you're going to think of something to to write down on a poster. What's that going to be? What are you going to what are you going to write down on that poster? off. >> Let me enjoy an oldfashioned. I've earned it. >> I'm just going to say f off. >> Yeah. All right. Yeah, fair enough. >> No, I I want nothing to do with them. I'm not even cur Well, I'm still curious about them because I feel like my only form of empowerment in the face of of complete loss of agency that they have the ability to impose upon people like me, >> I my only my only power empowerment in this is talking about it and and and trying to understand them as as completely as possible. And that's why I was so interested in in ancient astronaut theory. Um, you know, you know, I understand people can make fun of that show, Ancient Aliens. I still love the show cuz there's a lot that they do, right? >> Yeah. There's a lot to love there. >> Yeah. But anytime they start talking about, could that be some kind of portal? You know, this there's a little cut in the rock and they're calling it a portal. Like, give me a break. All right. But they still get a lot right and I still love the show and I was so happy that I got to be on the show last season. That was so cool. Um, even though they they covered like 2% of my story. I mean, there's so much I haven't even told you yet, but it's it's okay. I mean, I there's there it's everything is in the book. I'm I'm I'm saving one thing for myself that I did not put in the book because it was too disturbing for me, but >> Well, um >> Oh,

The arm surgery. We didn't talk about that. I want to talk about.

Sure. Yeah, let's talk about it.

All right. So, in uh 2022, I think it was July. I I forget I put it in the book. Um but even that estimate of the time estimate is an might be an approximation because I did my best to reconstruct which dates happened with which encounters. I did my best. So if some of them are off I you know I did my best but um I became aware of pain in my left arm in my sleep. It it was a black sleep and I wasn't dreaming. There was no imagery in the sleep and I became aware of pain in my left arm. It was excruciating. It was like a dull ache capped off by a sharp pain like like you cut yourself. That kind of a sharp pain uh combined with a really dull ache. And uh so I opened my eyes because the pain was so bad. And the first thing I noticed is I wasn't in my bedroom. And I look at my feet and I notice I'm laying on a metal table. Uh Peter gray metal table. Uh it was about this much wider than me. And I'd say it was uh about 6' 5 in long. So it's longer than I was tall. And um fit for a human.

Yeah. Exactly. And uh I I looked down. I noticed so I I knew I wasn't in my my room and I was in this strange gray facility and I looked down at my arm and it's missing from above the elbow. Just clean off, gone. But the strangest thing was that there was no blood on the table next to me, next to my body. Not a not a single drop of blood was next to me. And um I as as entranced as I was and as muted as my senses were, the pain was excruciating. But the fear response that you would naturally have in such an instance was still gone. I didn't have a fear response, but I had like a like a a restrained panicked awareness.

It's hard to describe. Like this this this can't be real. like a dissociation, like I was dissociated, you know, with with other encounters. And um so I I looked like I could move my head again, like in other encounters where I was paralyzed, I could move my head, but not my body. And I looked to my left and further like I'd say about 5t away from the maybe 6 ft away from the table I was laying on was a metal cart. Uh I didn't see any wheels or anything. I just it was a single shaft holding in the center of a of a metal table. And uh I assume it was a cart. It could have been just a table. I don't know. I don't know if it was mobile, but uh my arm was on there and I could see the humorous bone sticking out from the meat. And there was no blood, not a drop of blood wasted around, you know, on that cart uh around the arm. And and there wasn't even a drop of blood like on on the tissue surrounding the cut. It was perfect. It was perfect. It was like butchered meat. Like you'd bled the thing dry before you cut it open. And that was my meat.

I was looking at freshly butchered meat. It was like, you know, I know it sounds, you know, ridiculous to say it that way, but it it I I I just couldn't process what I was seeing. And um but it hurt so bad. And um I tried to turn my head to the right and I and I had difficulty doing that. Uh I lost consciousness, but I was aware that there was something to the right of me. somebody something there was movement to the right of me and it was approaching the table when I passed out again.

Hm. I woke up uh and I was back in my bed at home and my arm was killing me and the first thing I look down now it's there like okay why is it hurt so bad and I look and there's there's no sutures there's no scarring nothing but my elbow's kind of swollen and I'm like all right that that hurts you know and then um I I got up well maybe I'll take a hot shower and and it'll it'll feel better, you know, it'll like loosen up or something. I take a hot shower, it just gets worse. And and within an hour, it's frozen solid at a 90 degree bend. I couldn't move my elbow for an entire month. Um, but then uh the interesting thing was that uh you know, normally how they come every four to 6 weeks. I told you about that. Well, they came exactly one week later and I woke up and I again, I wasn't in my room. I was laying on a a cushioned surface and somebody was holding my hand, my right hand, and my left hand arm was was stretched out to the left. I I made an illustration of this uh a tall gray was bending over uh that side, the left side of my bed. My bed. I say my bed, but it was like the cushion. I was it it was uh covered in like a tight white canvas like a soft white canvas is it was the closest I could describe it. Uh it wasn't like sheets. There was no top sheet or it was just a just a fabric cover of some kind tight like like it was part of the cushion. And so, um, this tall gray was was leaning over that side of the bed or cushion and he had he was running his hands up and down the length of my arm and he was focusing mostly over the elbow. Excuse me. And um, while he was doing that, I was being distracted by somebody holding my right hand. And I look and I noticed a pair of feet that came only down to my knees. That was kind of weird. And then I looked to the left and I perceived it to be a young woman or maybe a a young girl holding my hand and she said, "Uh, she looked at me, but it was a short gray and and she said, "Do you have something you want to tell me?" I couldn't think of anything. I was confused by the question. And um and I said no. Um I think I said something like I thought she was flirting with me. So I I said something like uh well I'm not married or anything. It's a strange thing to say but I I was so out of it. I was so confused. Um, and then I went unconscious and then I woke up. I was back at home again. Uh, and then a week later, another encounter where I woke up in a standing position again in a gray room and there was a very tall gray standing over me. And uh I was unsteady on my feet cuz I just became conscious on in a standing position and um being so unsteady it guided me by my shoulders to a railing along the wall. It reminded me of the kind of railing you would see in a dance studio, like a belly

would use when they're doing their stretches and things. Um, and so I held on to that to steady myself and then what it did was it grabbed my shoulders again and turned me toward it, the tall gray, and then um it it grabbed my left arm and was running its hands again over my elbow. And in both of these instances, I had a slightly less inflammation the next morning and slightly better range of motion, but it didn't really get better until a full month had gone by. It's like ET physiootherapy

or something like maybe they were healing it in some way.

And your impression of of the reason for this was I know we spoke last night was

bone bone marrow. Yeah, I think they took bone because you looked you looked at symptoms of what that would feel like and what the recovery was like and it was very similar. You found out?

Yeah. Yeah. I actually used chat GPT to uh to tell me what would be if this happened if we say this actually happened.

Sure. If I'm if I'm not like, you know, out of my mind on this thing.

Uh, if if my suspicion that bone marrow was extracted from my humorous bone, my left humorous bone, what would the symptoms be?

What would recovery be like? quot with all that. Yeah.

And it described exactly what I experienced there. There'd be pain radiating into the joint uh until the marrow had grown back and there'd be swelling at the joint.

Do you ever get it checked out?

Uh I had my girlfriend at the time uh do an X-ray and I completely forgot that I had done an X-ray. So when I wrote the book, I'd forgotten I'd done the X-ray.

She said it showed nothing. There was no seam on the bone, like no cut.

Uh it was nothing unusual. So, if it had been cut, whatever they did to put me back together was perfect, except for the fact that there was inflammation. Um, she said she said there's some minor um I I had minor uh but nothing nothing to be worried about. Uh a little bit of u uh arthritis,

okay?

And but uh it's the same thing in this joint, but it only flares up if I eat bad food.

Okay? you know. Um, but I'm at that age where I'm starting to get a tiny little bit of arthritis in some of my joints, but nothing like this. Nothing like what happened with my left arm. That was and it it it was awaking. Like, as I'm talking to you, I know I'm not dreaming you right now. You're not dreaming me right now. This is what it feels like to be awake.

Yeah.

Well,

yeah. It's it's why I didn't bring up, you know, the sleep paralysis or the because so many people's head goes to that, but like you speak to

that's a fair assumption. It is a fair assumption for for some

u because they are there are similarities to to draw lines between sleep paralysis especially with you wake it's at night you're up you're paralyzed it feels real like all of these are symptoms of sleep paralysis but objective reality you know I've had out-of- body experiences and I can tell you that those were not awake experiences but they weren't lucid dreams either. And so, you know, I don't know if I'm describing a new type of dream that we haven't really defined yet.

I've I've had an obbe, but only because I was training myself to have one.

Yeah. So, you mentioned in the book

in 1995.

It scared you.

It scared me. I I felt like uh Did you see the movie Ghost?

Yeah.

Where where when when

when you walk through a ghost?

When you when you'd walk through a ghost or walk through a wall, there's like this like tearing velcro sound like a

a whoosh. Okay.

I had that same sound.

That's what I felt when when um I was separating. I I had a book that was on my father's shelf. I borrowed it. It was um I I think his father was into uh some of that mystical cult, but you'd never talk about it cuz he's such a scientific guy. But he he was a highranking Mason. And I don't I don't know if they're they're into that stuff, but um but it was called uh Projection of the Astral Body by Carrington and Maldun. And uh originally written in 1929, but the copy that I had was a 1947 reprint. And I studied it in 1995. And I was training myself to wake up at the same time every night until I didn't need the alarm anymore. And then you'd start to wake up in your sleep in a lucid state uh as a result of this this disciplined period of waking up at the same time and and then you could introduce a suggestion to your mind like all right I want to do this thing where I separate from my body. I wanted to try it cuz I heard about it and it just seemed like a interesting thing to do and I was living alone and um and I succeeded on two occasions. One time I woke up and the ceiling was in my face and I freaked out and I snapped back and I was instantly fully awake. Um, and then another time I was laying on my right side and I felt myself separating out parallel to my body out away from the bed into the room and I just felt so vulnerable anytime I'd separated that I'd freak out and snap back. I don't ever want to do it again. Yeah, it happened to me um a few times involuntarily and it was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life.

Yeah.

Uh, but instantly after it happened I was like I got I got to do that again. I want to do that again. Like

I won't do it again. It it it just felt too vulnerable.

Oh, it was so scary. And you feel like this you feel this presence not of a thing but like that you're not supposed to be there. Like that's what I got from it. I was like, "Oh, I'm in a space in some liinal existence that I am unfamiliar with. Although everything looks familiar, this isn't this I'm I'm not I'm not in my room."

I felt like I could be attacked.

Yep.

Yeah. And and I and I just didn't like that feeling.

Yeah. You're in a new space.

Yeah.

Um, so I get that. But then I I pursued it through the gateway process and ended up, you know, meditating 4 months straight, 1 hour a day at like 4:30 in the morning and ended up leaving my body a whole bunch of times after that.

I'm not like this, you know, into crystals and and and and higher consciousness and the CE5 contact and kumbaya and meditating in Sedona, Arizona. I'm not into all that stuff.

U, but what what I'm saying is that like your experience from having an OBBE Yeah. to the objective reality that you describe with the ET and the tall grays are different. They are not the same feeling. Yeah. Okay.

It it it's like it's like I said, it's like

because sleep paralysis is much closer to the obbe feeling.

Right. Right. And um I would say that uh the closest thing to the entrance that you experience during abduction is more similar to uh the dissociation like your disconnect when when you're you're going through something traumatic. You're disconnecting from it and you're seeing everything in slow motion

because your mind is trying to stay ahead of this thing that's happening to you that you don't want to accept. Is there a chance that what was happening to you was happening to the non-physical you? Do you ever consider that? Because there is that too with these

No, I had symptoms afterwards. I you know, and and um

But you never consider that any of these abductions might have been a non-physical abduction.

No, they were always physical. And one time one time uh I was forced to have intercourse and I didn't talk about this in the book. It it bothered me, but uh you you felt everything.

Yeah. But you had no control over your actions, what you were doing. Um, and despite like this this horrific feeling like what am I doing to this thing, this person you you just but you know this little voice. No, it's okay that you're doing this. It's okay that you but you know you're just horrified and I'm trying to remember the face of the person.

It's real.

It's real. But but it's uh but but there was like uh there was this imposition this screen memory was was working that time and and I couldn't remember what I was actually seeing but but I but the

the physical sensation down below was real. Um, oh by the way um there's something I did want to talk about like the the routine semen collection the the sample collection we didn't talk about that. Um, there was one encounter I had where they used a device on me.

That's right. And you brought that.

I saw it. Yeah. So, I recreated I I did a 3D print of it and you could take pictures of it or whatever, but um it it looked like a three-sided uh pyramidal cone and they place it down over your your genitals and uh and it's instant extraction. I don't remember the feeling down there during the extraction. Uh, but I was only awake for maybe 15 seconds during that encounter. But uh there was another screen memory during that collection where um the the short gray that was uh crawling onto my bed at the foot of my bed up toward me um briefly looked like a very ugly woman that that resembled somebody I knew. uh asking me if I wanted

oral felacia

right down there. And uh I I feel. I'm embarrassed saying it.

Uh, but yeah, if I wanted that and I was I was confused. I I was kind of out of it. And and who doesn't like that sort of thing? So I'm like I said, sure, okay. But then when this creature, you know, was about to make as if they were going to put their head down there, uh, they pulled their head back and had this this cup, this black pyramidal triangle thing that it was shaped like a an athletic cup on the open end, put it on top of me down there, and uh,

instant extraction. Yeah. It just it just whatever it does to the nerves down there, it just manipulates the nerves, causes the the ejaculate and it just Yeah.

wild.

So that's what they use. So

as far as I know, I'm the only person who's ever like described the actual device

uh or at least that particular Yeah. At least one of them.

Yeah. Maybe there's other types that they use, but but the one that they used on me was a a black three-sided pyramidal cone and um, you know, and and it uh it was like slightly truncated at the top. It wasn't a sharp point. It was like flat at the top. Mhm.

But but uh but mostly Yeah.

Uh

nothing attached to it.

No, it was just uh self-contained.

Yeah. Whatever technology it is, it's pretty advanced.

Yeah. That's wild.

Well, thanks for sharing that. I appreciate I appreciate you opening up about all that. I think, you know, it's obviously something that's difficult to talk about and and

I think we have to talk about it.

Well, I think so, too. You know, we had um I had a gentleman here, uh Peter Curry, if you if you haven't watched the interview or his story, and I spoke to you a little bit about one of his encounters with, you know, the hair of the alien, but he's also had encounters with grays and and he's been also um, you know, according to him, forcibly imposed on another person.

Um, that's horrific. I that that's

So, he's had all these very similar encounters. He's been introduced to his offspring, you know, same

Okay.

same things that you're saying. And there's so many

I'd like to talk to him.

Yeah, I'll I'll put you in touch with Peter. He's a very friendly, very nice guy and very open. And uh, you know, it's very difficult for him to talk about this stuff too because on one hand it is not only personal, obviously the most personal, but on the other hand, it is

extremely open to ridicule. Um, and and and it's one of those things that like obviously there are jokes here. You know, there obviously you're a smart guy. We can see the jokes here. Um, but those are just comfort mechanisms,

right?

You know that

people don't want to accept something that would change their paradigm for them.

Exactly. And so naturally you go to that as a defense mechanism.

And let's just set aside any any uh suggestion that I'm doing this to sell a book.

Sure.

I would love to sell my book. Okay. But only 1% of authors become bestsellers. Um, I still need my full-time job and I I have no illusions of quitting that anytime soon. If I if I become a famous author, it's probably because I'm writing about something else. Uh, you know, these these these

Yeah.

memoirs that are strange like this, like well, Communion did very well. But I wrote this because the act of writing it was cathartic, was therapeutic,

and um and it allowed me to create a permanent record of everything so I don't forget some of it. And um and then I illustrated my experiences while I was writing the book. And that also was cathartic. That allowed me to confront uh on a more visceral u cognitive level that that um, you know, where I could deal with it more emotionally. I've had five years to deal with this on an emotional level.

And that's why I can come here and seem almost flippant talking about it. I'm I'm not flippant. Uh, but I think everybody that has these experiences should come forward because if we can have this serious conversation as a nation, as a people, maybe we can stand up and do something about it. I don't know if that's possible. Maybe it's too late. But if it's possible to thwart this agenda, like I want conformed incent, maybe it is best that we're replaced. You know, by some measures, we suck as a species.

Think about it. But I think there we're also beautiful. our art, our music, uh our poetry, um our literature, our architecture, you know, you know, some of these these these gorgeous old cathedrals and and the way we paint the ceilings and and the there's so much that we do that comes from our inspiration that would be lost in a species that is telepathic only. Um, I I think you lose something in that.

It's worth preserving.

I think there's a lot worth preserving in humanity. And And I want to see if we can be the ones that beat the odds and be the voiced species that can actually persist for for more than 50,000 years or however long we've been homo sapiens. You know, there's um one thing I will add to to this because that argument will come up and it's like, oh, he's trying to sell a book. For every person who's had experiences who's selling a book, there are a thousand other people who are not

selling a book who are telling the exact same story. And so, you know, that argument for me isn't valid at all. If you take the time, as many of, you know, the phenomenon sort of predecessors have, you can quickly paint a really vast picture

of the multitude and yeah, just the numerous cases that exist that are echoing mostly uh similar concepts.

And think about the risk I'm taking of course or people like me would take

by using my real name. Um, I'm basically making myself unemployable to anybody. Yeah. I I apply for a job on Indeed and if they Google my name, it's like, "Oh, UFO nut. No, forget it."

And why would you why would you make up things that make you appear so vulnerable, right? Exactly.

You know what I mean? In instead of making you out to be perhaps a hero, right? You know, if I'm going to make something up, I'm going to be the protagonist. I'm I'm right. I'm going to make myself look good.

Yeah.

Um,

okay.

Yeah. Let's get to I got a few audience questions. generously uh given a bunch of questions by our lovely audience over at uh Discord. If you're a member here, you know, you get access to many things and one of those things is asking potentially our guests a question. And they always have better questions than I do collectively. So, I'm excited to see what they got today. This question by Kazane says, "Is Michael Herrera's account of human trafficking related to the contract you refer to in a blood covenant?"

I don't know who Michael Herrera is. So, Michael Herrera is a military whistleblower who had an encounter, I believe, in Indonesia where he was part of like some elite sort of SEAL team and they were there on a humanitarian mission apparently to extract uh people um from danger because it was like a flood. And as him and his I think six people total were walking down this sort of mountainous jungle terrain, they spot this octagonal black disc hovering over the trees.

Wow.

And he goes, "All right, let's go check it out." And they get down there and they are met with just guns pointed at their heads immediately unbadged military personnel who were loading up what seemed like people. Um, and he says that there are I I might be mistaken but that these uh reverse engineered craft were used to take people um children and all types of people or for whatever use.

What country was it in? I think it was in Indonesia if I'm not mistaken, but it was uh it was some Asian country and they were immediately like outmanned, outgunned. The tech, the gear, the clothing, the vehicles were all modern and no flags, no badges, no names, and they were being like yelled at and accosted. Their phones were taken, everything was like shut down for them. and he came forward and he tried to reach out to some of the people that came forward uh that that witnessed that as well. They would not come forward and they were like, "Please do not contact me ever again." Uh, but they were basically told to shut the hell up about it.

I I would ask what what were the blood types of the people that were taken.

So you think there um do you think there's an active agreement with the government in terms of supplying fresh blood?

That's a possibility. But uh I think that uh they don't have any problem abducting people.

They don't need our help for that.

But but here's the thing. I don't think that they're going to uh abduct people for the sake of blood harvesting from their homes because it's too visible. Uh so if it's a home abduction, they get put back and it's not for the purpose of but maybe they take a little blood, you know, maybe they're culturing cell lines.

It's mostly mostly reproductive,

right? But um but I think that if you have people camping in

national parks,

right? national parks in the wilderness and and if they happen to be typo, they might not come back. Um, because people disappear in the wilderness all the time. They maybe a bear dragged them off. I mean, there's there's

it's easy deniability.

Exactly. Uh not not that, you know, some people say, "Well, why would they need plausible deniability? They can they don't leave any traces behind. They can just zip away with their little UFO." But I I think that um that they avoid home abductions for for feeding purposes

and maybe just part of that agreement too.

You know, it's it's so strange. I hear myself saying all this stuff like like this is like such an esoteric sci-fi,

right? Exactly. It's like we're we're we're theorizing now. This is this is we're speculating.

Yeah. Yeah. But um in terms of the blood covenant thesis that I I uh talk about in my second book, um that's absolutely plausible that in exchange for technological advantage uh a government agency or group might be willing to engineer in exchange uh to feed the tall grays

and sort of turn a blind eye. Um, so, so that's why I ask what blood type are they? Because I'll bet you they're O positive or O negative. Otherwise, they would

if it has to do with that at all.

If it has to do with that at all. Right.

Okay. Uh, next question from Chris Austin. So, I'm thinking Austin, Texas. So, cool. We kind of touched on this, but uh do you do you have more information about the Gray's underground facility?

I only have the map that I was shown. Um, and I did a sort of a armchair forensic analysis of the area to determine that um it is geologically possible for such structures to exist. And nothing in current geological assays uh have been done at that depth that would show or or disprove caverns in in that area. And if you want to see a map of of where I'm placing those caverns according to the map I was shown, I've recreated versions of the map. You

I've already put it up at this point. So

yeah,

and uh last one here. It's a great question by Slug.

Slug asks, "What does the word abduction not capture about what actually happens?"

When you think of the word abduction, like you'll think of somebody being kidnapped. Uh maybe they're killed or maybe they're held for ransom or something like that. Um, usually the person is just kept confined. Um, uh, maybe they're raped. Um, maybe they're tortured or harmed, but, uh, but for the most part, it's something that either ends where the person, you know, escapes or is returned or or their life is ended. Um, but that's something that most people can put wrap their heads around. Um, but in in terms of humans abducting humans, um, you know, you don't have somebody controlling another person's neurology, robbing them of the ability to think clearly, robbing them of of their agency. Like sometimes when people are abducted, they find a way to escape or wiggle free or something, you know, they they have a small modicum of control that they can try to fight for. Um, the grays don't allow you even that much. They take everything from you. Um, if they want you to have sex with somebody, they can make you have sex with somebody. If if they want you to be still, they can force you to be still. If they don't want you thinking of good questions or or or trying to engineer a way to escape from your situation, they they can keep your mind clouded and confused the entire time. And I I I think the word abduction itself doesn't encompass the the loss of agency. I mean, there is a loss of agency when a a human is abducted by another human, of course. You know, you're you're you're taken against your will, of course, but the the loss of agency imposed upon you by the graves is total. And that angers me more than anything. the what they take but they they take things like I've always wanted more children, you know, and and to be shown children I can never touch or love or or hold or know that that just that just makes me shake with anger. You know, I I I hate these people. I hate them. I don't want them. So you you ask me if they ever come back and I put another poster on my wall, what I would say, I would say, "Fuck off. I don't want you. I I know they'll ignore it. You know, you know, sometimes religious fundamentalists will will say, "Oh, you're you're uh your abductions are are merely uh demons coming to deceive you and blah blah blah." Um, but they'll go away if you invoke the name of Christ. Well, I was raised Christian. I'm I'm aware of the concept. You're not even given the the opportunity to formulate uh an objection in your mind against what they're doing to you. And these are not non-corporeal. The these are not spiritual entities. These are physical people that use technology and they're doing things to you physically. It doesn't sound like an angry ghost that has a gargoyle face that's like uh trying to corrupt your soul so you'll go to hell. It's nothing like that. These these are people from another world and they're desperate and they're here for a reason. Some people can call their agenda evil because they're robbing us of our uh right to consent to their agenda. Um, and some people can argue that they have no choice. the drowning man will always drag someone down with them. Right? So, um, you can you can look at both coins of the of the ethical I'm sorry, both sides of the ethical coin on this and um, and come up with an unsatisfying answer. Well, Eric, I want to thank you for being so candid. I really appreciate it and I think u it goes a long way for you know people out there >> possibly going through the same thing obviously this helps uh but also for people who just want to lend an ear you know it's it's really it's the craziest hump for people to get over um this stuff you can't blame them you can't blame anyone for being like this is all horse crap you know like that's you can't blame them but for you to know that and to still come forward I think takes a lot of courage and so I applaud you and I I thank you for for doing that and uh you know let's keep this conversation going and see what else we can we can come up with hopefully collectively as a as a species you know if there's anything here to gleam if there's any underlying ground truth to be surfaced then I think that you know conversations like these have a play a very important part I'm going to continue to write uh books uh that uh are related to them based on research and and speculative you know science uh to try to understand them better and so uh

and hopefully draw out from me again.

Yeah. And drawing out some more testimony, you know, from people out there who now

maybe Yeah.

because of this perhaps feel more comfortable to to share

if people want to reach me through my author website uh or the book's website anstintheshadows.com. I'm I'm perfectly willing to communicate via email.

We'll leave it below. We'll leave all the links uh in the description here. And also, if you're a member of the channel and you want an opportunity to win a signed copy, we're giving away a few. Uh Eric was gener generous enough to bring a few extra copies here. So, we have the A Blood Covenant and Angs in the Shadows. I'll give those away. So, just comment below uh if you're a member and we'll pick a few of you and we'll have those sent out to you, Eric. Thank you again.

You're welcome. Thank you.