The #1 Thing 80% of Men Do Wrong in Bed ft Caitlin V

I'm such a snob now. I'm like, uh, seven minutes. Like, come on, let's go for 30.

Okay, number one most important thing [music] to do, and this is gonna shock some folks, I think, is breathe. Change the quality of your breath. And so, if you do nothing else other than breathe, whether that's before you masturbate, before you have sex with a partner, before you have a conversation about sex with a partner, if you do nothing else other than breathe, you'll be in a better place instantly to handle those things.

I wish that I knew that I was [music] worthy of being loved the way I wanted to be loved earlier.

If you want to have a phenomenal relationship, and that doesn't matter if it's a romantic relationship, a business relationship, a relationship with your neighbors, communication is going to be a core part of it.

Did you know that changing your masturbation technique can actually enhance your performance in bed? Today we're joined by one of the world's leading sexologists to learn the benefit of yoni and linga massage, why breathing is the number one tool for better sex, and how to find the best position to maximize pleasure for you and your partner.

Welcome back to the Reena Malik MD podcast, your trusted guide for leveling up your health, sex life, and relationships with evidence-based tools. I'm your host, Dr. Reena Malik, urologist and pelvic surgeon. I'm joined by Caitlyn V. Neil, who holds a master's in public health from Indiana University, and transitioned from a researcher to a renowned sexual educator and coach. She's coached over 10,000 men through struggles in their sex lives, created content viewed by over 150 million people, and currently appears as the resident sexologist on HBO's Good Sex, where she analyzes real couples intimate encounters.

If you're a returning listener and this podcast has helped you, please support us by rating and reviewing on Apple or Spotify. It's completely free and helps us reach more people who need this information. And if you're new here and enjoy what you learned today, consider doing the same after you listen.

>> All right, Caitlyn, welcome to the podcast.

>> Thank you so much for

>> I feel like this is like years in the making.

>> I think so, too. I've been a fan of your content since you started.

Really? Thank you. Thank you. And I think we serve the same population really and we serve them sort of from like two ends of the same spectrum which is so cool because I would say I do coaching from a more evidence-based perspective and you do medicine from a more empowering perspective.

>> Absolutely. Like I think there is not one right way and I think that blending it together is really like the best you can do and like you're going to do the best you can with what you know but there's so much we can glean from you know around the world and ancient cultures and learning from ourselves right so I think it's it's so valuable

>> there's and there's so much to know right like one person cannot possibly hold all of the information that's going to help one other individual person it's way too [clears throat] complex and that's the cool thing about it

>> yeah so let's talk about it you have obviously done a lot of you started off as a researcher so you come from a science science evidence-based background you've coached like thousands of people so let's start with what is the one biggest thing a man can do today to improve his sex life okay number one most important thing to do and this is going to shock some folks I think is breathe change the quality of your breath and primarily because when men come to me and they are concerned about their sexuality or they're like fearful they're anxious about about it. The quality of their breath is usually shallow and it's usually halted and it and we could get into all of the negative impacts of like living in that fearful state in your body. But the quickest thing that you can do to help your body to cool down and help your mind to cool down is just breathe. Like breathe slowly, breathe consciously. Allow yourself to settle and ground a little bit more because real great sex comes from a body and a mind that are centered, that are moving more slowly and less panicked and less anxious. And so if you do nothing else other than breathe, whether that's before you masturbate, before you have sex with a partner, before you have a conversation about sex with a partner, if you do nothing else other than breathe, you'll be in a better place instantly to handle those things.

>> Yeah. And there's actually science behind breathing, right? So there's box breathing, there's the 478 method, which was popularized by a Harvard scientist. There's psychological sigh, which Andrew Hubman talks about a lot. But all of those different types of breathing, they come from obviously like meditation. Like my parents grew up, you know, breathing. And I was like, what are you guys doing? Like what does this even have to do with anything? But like it's it's it has real impacts on your overall physiology and then ultimately on your sex life, right?

>> Yeah. And it's the easiest thing you can do. And you know, if we think about the quality of our food and the quality of the movement of our body and our environment and all of these other factors that go into having a great sexual experience, breath is the most immediate and quickest one that you can have an impact on. If you start eating differently today, you're going to notice differences soon, but it will take weeks, months, years even to start seeing like massive changes in your body. But you can see a change in your nervous system within minutes just by changing the quality of your breath.

>> Yeah. I mean even like when you're having stressed like if you just do a deep psychological sigh or any of those box breathing techniques you will notice immediately that you feel better.

>> You feel relief.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And all of those uh breath techniques that you mentioned are great. So like find one that works for you and play with that one. You don't have to become a breath work master overnight. Find one that helps you to feel better and that you find is easy to do and then just commit to doing that regularly.

>> Yeah. And so, and then using that as like sort of a background when you're sort of coaching men to really have maximum pleasure, to like build arousal, to enjoy the experience, to have a great orgasm, and to provide pleasure. What is sort of like the tips and tricks that you use or tell teach them to do to sort of optimize that?

>> Yeah. So, in particular, in order to build arousal and to provide pleasure, slow down is number one. And it I mean you can see the the connection between breathing and slowing down, right? Because when we're in a rush or we're feeling nervous or maybe we're just being really hard on ourselves, we think that we should be better or different or we should be harder or more knowledgeable. We're again we're moving out of where we can be intuitively with our touch and into how we think our touch or the quality of our touch ought to be. And the cool thing about sex is that it has existed since

>> pretty close to the dawn of time, right? Like sexual recreation, but in particular for us as humans, hundreds of thousands of years of us having sex successfully and procreating. And so we know how to do it just the same way that you don't have to tell your body how to digest or how to sleep, right? If you get rid of all the obstacles, you can digest pretty well and you can sleep pretty well on on average, right? So the same is true for sex. But we can get so hung up in our minds on how it should look and the

>> the notion that we have of what we ought to be doing or how our partner ought to be feeling about it that we we remove ourselves from the greatest source of our wisdom on how we can touch each other which really lives further down in the body than up in the mind. So my system when I'm working with a man is always to start with the body, right? Because as you know better than anyone, like we have to get the body right, the biochemistry, the physiology, like if you don't have those things sort of or some awareness of them, it's going to be really hard to to do anything long term. But as soon as we sort of understand what's going on inside of the body to move from the mental state and the mindset that you're in to the emotional body to the relationship itself to the spiritual and energetic components of sexuality and so I kind of move from the densest part of that to the lightest part of that over time as I'm working with someone.

>> Yeah. So I think that that the challenge for people is like it it sounds all great but there's like so many obstacles along the way, right? Because it's like well how do I like I think when you say that like average man is thinking like how do I even like what does that even mean right like how do I start thinking in my body and like you know like I get turned on and I I just like have sex like that's it that's all there is to it right so I think it's like more like how can we make this like package this in a way that it makes sense totally that's a great question so I was thinking about that this morning I've I started I left academia and started my coaching practice 10 years ago and so I have [clears throat] 10 years under my belt of addressing my mindset, learning how to feel and express my emotions, learning how to communicate in an advanced way with partners. And coming back to the idea of slowing down, understand that this isn't something that you do overnight. If you looked at my internal state 10 years ago, my emotional state 10 years ago, I'm a very different person as a consequence of all of the work that I have done. And I've been very privileged because it's my job to coach people. So, I've gotten to get a ton of coaching myself along the way and that's changed my life tremendously. Quality of my relationships, quality of my sex life, my orgasm, etc. So, it's not an overnight thing. And I think if we have the idea that, oh my god, I have to figure this all out at once, right? Okay. You're telling me that I got to go to I got to schedule an appointment. I got to get my labs done and then and then I got to see a therapist or a coach and I got to work on my emotional state and and there's scary things in all of those. So if you especially if you work with a professional and you're able to identify or have someone help you to identify what the lowest hanging fruit is, what are the biggest needle movers? You know, I'm sure when you see a patient that you're like, "Okay, physiologically, maybe there's five or 10 things that you want to see shift in their body and in their chemistry,

>> but you probably start them with the things that are going to be most impactful for them." Part of that for me is because I want people to have easy wins. I want them to be like, "Oh my god, I tried that thing. I had sex last night. I saw an immediate difference. I saw a shift." Because that becomes the fuel to continue to do the work. Absolutely.

>> And I like to start with the stuff that just feels good, easy, approachable. And then as we move through those things, we develop a lot more of like an internal feedback loop that says, "Okay, doing this can be fun. Doing this can be easy. Doing this works." Yeah.

>> And then people get more excited and eager and

>> they want to try new things.

>> They want to try new things. So yes, you're absolutely right to point out that that does sound like a lot, but when I work with someone, I do that over the course of maybe like six months and they see this like tremendous shift in their sex life and then they take the pieces that they still want to keep working on and then they go from there.

>> Yeah. I think the big thing is like look, sex is is as you said, it is natural but it is something you learn, right? is something you practice. It's something you can get better at. And I think a lot of times people are very hesitant to work on sex, right? They're like, "Why would I ever need to like do something to make my sex life better? I should just be able to have an erection and have sex and it should be great." But like the reality, as you know, you know, and many of my listeners know, like this is not something that is just like you're you're just going to have an orgasm and feel great and everyone's going to be happy and like they show in the media, right? And I think it's it's okay and it's actually a sign of strength that you are looking to optimize sex.

>> I couldn't agree more. I think that sex is largely associated a lot with relationship health and overall quality of life because the quality of our relationships especially our intimate relationships really is a reflection of the overall quality of our life. What feels better than being connected to another person, feeling really seen, feeling gotten, falling in love, the experience of like, you know, the the sharing vulnerably with yourself, with another person, sharing vulnerably of yourself with another person and having them like receive and reciprocate. To me, those are big pieces of what makes life worth living and exciting. And it's worth putting in even a little effort, maybe even just a few months of effort on improving sexuality because for the rest of your life, you'll be reaping the benefits. It's like you make this investment and it just pays off forever. And it doesn't make you less of a man. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you. I write in my book that we have a certain amount of erotic intelligence. Some people are just born great lovers, right? Like they just show up after puberty and they just they got it. they got some degree of how to do it, right? They know how to touch. They they like they they intuitit those things. But most of us don't, right? Just like most of us don't understand, you know, calculus on our first go around. We have to learn it. And yet we're so hard on oursel that that sex is something that we should have to learn or advance in as a skill. And I don't think I think being hard on ourselves actually like compounds what is already challenging. It makes it harder.

>> Yeah. And I think, you know, like you said, it doesn't have to be a very complex thing. It can be as simple as breathing. Yes. So, working on your breath when you're aroused, when you're turned on, just trying to be in the moment and feel the feelings and like really be present, which I think is really missing in today's society, right? Being present. And as you mentioned, like sex is great for all the things you mentioned, but it's also good for your overall health, right? If you look at the data, there's data that shows people who have sex more often live longer. They're less depressed. Like there's a lot of actual evidence. better glow. [laughter]

>> Yeah. And so, and you know, I think like working on all these things with your sex life will also translate to better things in other areas of your life, right? Like if you're calmer and more present and you're more mindful. We know that doing mindfulness outside the bedroom actually makes you more mindful during sex, but being mindful outside the bedroom means like you're more present with your kids or you're more present with your partner, you're more present at work, and you're more productive. So like there's so many valuable things with just working on one area of your life,

>> right? And even with breath itself, like doing the 478 breath before you eat a meal helps you to digest better because it's all the same processes in the body, right? Like I like to say that like anything that lizards did or that lizards do and you also do, we can like go back to your lizard brain because they eat, they sleep, and they mate,

>> right? And they they don't really look like they have a ton of like richness to their lives beyond those things, right? They rest and they fuck. Yeah. Um I [laughter] think okay. Uh and so if lizards do it and you do it then it probably comes back to a similar route and you could benefit all of those things benefit from the same practices and the same awarenesses and I think you know I went to a concert on Saturday night and there was someone watching the boxing match on his phone

>> and recording

>> in the show. No, he's like literally like standing in the concert like boopping along to the music and watching a boxing match. And I was like, I think this is the furthest extension of the uh lowered attention span that we all have. Like this is the perfect example. I'm I'm at a live music show surrounded by thousands of people. And I I this is not enough stimulation for me. I also want to watch this boxing match.

>> It's crazy.

>> I mean, he had money on the

>> I mean, the boxing match was like apparently like a very big boxing.

>> It was a big It was a big [laughter] match. Yeah. When I mentioned this, everyone in my crew was like, "Oh, that's D versus so and so." I was like, "Okay, maybe that person was brought to the concert." But you're right. I mean, I think our just the point is that our attentions are all over the place. And not yucking his yum. Maybe that was the ideal night for him, you know? Maybe he wanted a bit a bit of both. Amazing. But yes, like presence is something that we cultivate and it's something that requires practice and you don't meditate one time and then automatically become very zen and present and everything, right? every single day that

>> nothing worth having is easy, right? Like everything takes a little bit of work.

>> Totally. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Right. But I think that's the other thing is that a lot of people tell themselves, both men and women, that other people have this figured out, right? That guy never deals with erectile dysfunction or performance anxiety, right? Like he's got it all sorted. But because we don't have open conversations about sex and sexuality, you don't know that that guy is also struggling or

>> especially men.

>> Especially men. Yeah. I think that like the the biggest saddest thing in society is that men really don't talk about sexuality. And I will tell you as a urologist, I have seen like the perfect specimen of a man on a picture, right? If I saw him somewhere, I'd be like, "That guy's got everything and he's in my office, right?" And so it is not necessarily like any reflection of what kind of person you are, how put together you are. Like everyone can struggle and everyone can benefit from a variety of different approaches, but like really working on like enjoying pleasure and being present and realizing that it's accessible, like you can actually have that.

>> Yeah. And I think enjoying pleasure is really key too because say when a woman comes to me and she's having trouble reaching orgasm and she's trying like everything that she can under the sun. She's doing mindfulness techniques. She's uh her partner's on board. She's using various toys. Like she's doing it all quote unquote right. But what she's not necessarily doing is putting pleasure before orgasm. And I think that's even more difficult for men because men are not ever taught or told that pleasure is a vital piece of their own sexuality performance. Yes. And pleasure is kind of like a byproduct of just being a man, right? Because you're going to be able to get up and get off and like that's your job and your role and that's that and it should work perfectly all the time or else you're completely broken and everything is wrong with you, right? That's that's the narrative. But both men and women can benefit from just expanding a relationship with pleasure both in and outside of the bedroom. And like saying pleasure for pleasure's sake is valid. If it brings me pleasure and it causes no harm to anyone else, that's something that I give myself permission to explore further. And that again, we like we expand that one% at a time, like one tiny piece at a time, finding more pleasure in how we dress or the music that we listen to. Or when we're out walking the dog, instead of, you know, stressing about what we're going to make for dinner, we like breathe and touch grass. You know, like pleasure is available everywhere and it's a really nice place to start if you're experiencing any challenges in the bedroom.

>> Yeah. So, you actually have you're on HBO show called Good Sex and you watch people have sex. Is that right?

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> So, I I find this fascinating because I think that we obviously when we talk to people, we get their side of the story, but it's not necessarily reflective of what's happening and there's so much that they may not be communicating to us. So tell me, what was that like for you?

>> Oh, you nailed it. I went from hearing people describe the show and when I was a researcher, by the way, one of the things that I was involved in is this uh tool that was for gathering information on a sex act, right? And so we were having people come in because we were trying to trace exactly when a transmission of an STI happened. And so we'd say, okay, how did it start? Like you were kissing who and so and so was using their hand on this and then the toy came out and then this happened. And what we found is that people have a tremendously difficult time explaining what happened in the bedroom. And rightfully so, especially if you're being very present, right? You're not tracking all of the little pieces. You're you're doing your best to go back and recollect something that uh you were you were engaged in very deeply. And so people have a hard time doing that. Also, the language that someone uses to describe what's going on in their bedroom isn't exactly how I might hear their language as as their coach. So, you know, someone says that they started sex slowly and sweetly. And actually, when I look at the tape, it was actually like started pretty fast and kind of aggressive, you know,

>> but we have different language to describe that just the same way that like if I say just think of a cat, you might think of a tabby and I might think of a Persian. Like we we don't the word is insufficient to describe the thing. And so when I saw the videos, even from the jump, I understood that the the videos were going to tell me something that a client could never actually tell me in their own words. And it really made the process a lot faster. I could actually like accelerate because I was able to give them really precise coaching in order to make the shifts that were going to have the biggest transformative effect on their sex lives.

>> Did you see like a theme? like was there certain things that all couples were doing that were sort of like okay like people don't realize they're doing this but they're doing it

>> you know we we tried really hard with the casting of the show to get a variety of of stories and so

>> but that said I still think and there and I also worked with plenty of folks that didn't make it into the show so there there was a lot of um one-off sessions and other things that were like really good but we had to cut it down and I think there's there's sort of two themes both of the two themes that emerge in good sex I think also emerge in most of my coaching Mhm.

>> One is exactly what we've been speaking to, people moving quickly and based off of expectations instead of moving into like what's actually happening in the moment and what feels right instead of how it's supposed to look.

>> And then the other thing is folks inability to communicate. And there are so many reasons that we struggle to communicate about sex and sexuality. We might have shame over our desires. We might just lack the words. We're afraid of being rejected. We're afraid of being laughed at. We've never done it before, ever. And now we don't want to like rock the boat in our marriage because we don't know that this is even survivable. And so, you know, we joke all of the time in the sex head community that like it's about communication. It comes down to communication. If you've ever watched my channel, you know, I'm like, you guys, here's here's where [laughter] communication's going to come into this. But that's because it's true. That's because it is necessary. If you want to have a phenomenal sex life, I mean, forget that. If you want to have a phenomenal relationship, that doesn't matter if it's a romantic relationship, a business relationship, a relationship with your neighbors, communication is going to be a core part of it. And so I think all of the couples uh in good sex and all of the individual like one-off sessions, everyone benefited from having a look at how they were communicating about those things. And they also had to communicate about it because they're in speaking to me. So sometimes just the process of working with a professional forces you to put things into words that you haven't alone can be very healing.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think it's I mean we we talk about this too on my channel like communication is hard. It's very challenging especially about sex and but you just got to do it right. Like I don't I'm like we're not children. We can't whine and stomp our feet and say like I'm not going to do this. If you care about your sex life, if you care about your partner, you got to talk. That's it. Well, and I can imagine also for you as a urologist that like you have you have the time that you can give to your clients, right? And I recently got a new gynecologist and as soon as I told him that I was a sex coach, he started launching into all of these questions. He's like, "Oh, I've got a client who's dealing with this and I've got she here to see you."

>> I know. I was literally he had the ultrasound, the vaginal ultrasound was looking at my ovaries and I was like, "Can we can we bring it back to me just for a second? [laughter] We're looking at the inside of my body. I'd like to talk about me for a moment. Uh but then when we were done, I I gave him a list of book recommendations and stuff and he's an older gentleman. He's been in the game for a long time and he was like, I really want to help my patients because they're coming in and they're asking me these questions that are so far beyond the scope of what like I have time to do with them. Right.

>> Right. And I heard you say this on a on a podcast interview that you did recently that all like sexual challenges that you see have a psychological or emotional component because if your body isn't performing the way that you want it to that does affect your mind like 100% of the time.

>> Absolutely.

>> And if you're not interrogating, you know, what's going on in your mind and in the relationship that you're in and even the communication that you're having with yourself, you're you're not getting the whole picture. But yes, to your point, like you just have to do it. It's not easy at first. It gets easier. There are frameworks out there that can help you to do it. You don't need to hire somebody. You can literally go on your AI of preference and say, "I have to say a hard thing to my partner.

>> How do I how can I frame this?" Or, you know, I I I think my partner has something that they need to share with me and they don't feel safe to do it. What can I do to create an environment where they can say those things to me? And the research actually shows that when you share your fantasies and when you have communications about the hard things in your sex life, it actually increases closeness and desire. A lot of people don't do it because they're afraid that it's going to drive a wedge between them and their partner. And in the majority of cases, the opposite is true.

>> Yeah, that's really encouraging. And you know, I think you brought up a great point what I wanted to talk to you about because I struggle with this. I don't have the tools to teach my patients how to manage their anxieties, right? Their performance anxiety for men. And a lot of the times they're stressors because the second the first time a man has a problem with an erection, he's thinking about it. It doesn't matter if he's 15 or he's 70, if he has an issue, the next time he has sex and the next several times he has sex, he's he's thinking about it. So, what are some tools that men can use to sort of like kind of calm those down and be like, "Okay, first of all, variation is normal, right? We all know that. But how can they like internalize that?"

>> Yeah, totally. You're a human, so allow yourself to be a human. consider that it is a human quality to experience variations in your body.

>> Period.

>> Uh and congratulations on being human.

>> But the other piece of that is for me it comes back to mindset because you you have to you have a responsibility as an adult to track what's going on in here, to track the words that you use to describe your experience, to track the way that you talk about yourself, to track the the stories that you tell yourself about yourself, about your body, about sex, you know, about what's going to happen. And it is not as simple to say just change your mind, tell yourself a different story. It is probably 80% of the work though, just to get familiar with what's going on, right? Because if you can if you can really listen to yourself and you can become an observer of your thoughts, and again, this is easier said than done. It requires practice to do that. But even just going, "Oh, that's interesting. I'm having that thought again about how I'm like destined to fail in this relationship because I didn't get hard last week." What do you think maybe the consequences of replaying that thought over and over and over again could be? And beyond that, where does that thought originate? Can we actually like interrogate that? Because I guarantee it didn't start last week, right? You had a thought about yourself. Maybe you have a core belief that you're not enough, right? And maybe that started when you were three and your younger sister was born and you made it believe that you were not enough to keep your parents happy. They had to have another child and you're not enough. totally unconscious like almost preverbal thought that you came up with and now you look for evidence in your world that supports that belief despite it not being any in any way objectively true. Right? So now you lose an erection and you're like, "Oh,

>> I that's it. I'm not enough. I I knew I wasn't enough. I I've known I wasn't enough since I was three years old and this is just like one more piece of evidence and because I'm not enough, I'll never be able to do anything about this and I'm destined to die alone. Right? We we all do this. Here's the good news is that every single person our internal monologue for the most part, I think there are some rare outliers that have like really nice or no at all internal dialogues, right? But I think the majority of us, our brains are really hyperfocused on keeping us safe, preventing us from being rejected, and you know, generally keeping us down based on a a series of thoughts that we have had dating back to before we could even make words. That sounds heavy. Cool thing is that little shifts when we can get ahead of those things, when we can even just notice that they are there and question if they may not be true. You don't even have to believe that the opposite. You don't have to gas yourself up and be like, I am enough. I am looking in the mirror and say, I am enough. You don't need to do all of that, right? It is enough to just be like, oh, there's that not enough thought again. Okay, well, yeah, there there that is. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not.

>> Yeah,

>> you will experience a degree of peace around your performance anxiety

>> eventually with enough pieces added up to that um that you just cannot have without addressing your internal state. And I will tell you guys who are listening and women also, everyone feels this way about sex. I don't know anyone even like people who are well-informed in sexual education, even people who are out there talking about sex, everyone still feels like they're not enough.

>> A thousand%.

>> Because even though you and I talk about it all day, I can tell you I feel this way sometimes and I'm sure you do, too. And like it still is um something that like I know it's a thought, right? But it it's there, right? And it's just it's just but it's because sex is so shrouded in mystery in society, right? And we assume that the the pinnacle of sex is what we see on mainstream media, on pornography.

>> And to be honest, those are not real, right? Those no one is like that. No one's living that life. Even porn stars are not having sex like that in their own beds, right? So it's it's just, you know, like yeah, people have good sex, but everyone still wonders if they're enough,

>> right? And I've had experiences where like it was really difficult for me to get to orgasm and therefore the next time I'm like oh is that going to happen again? Right? And notice even how having that thought causes a bit of constraint in the body. We go into the mind we go into this like uh hamster wheel of what if it happens and what if and then we're not present anymore. And that is where being present and being oriented towards pleasure making pleasure the goal. Because when you make orgasm the goal, whether it's yourself or your partner, it's like I'd like to say it's like a cat that you're trying hard to catch. And we if you ever try to catch a cat, you know the harder that you try, the the harder that the cat fights not to be caught.

>> If you make pleasure the goal and you just keep following with presence, oh, that feels good. Okay, more of that, less of that. Harder, left, turn, new position, go back to making out, whatever it is, whatever the next pleasurable thing is. and you keep orienting towards that, you're too busy with the moment and what is actually sensorally happening to get caught up again on those negative recurring and you know largely unwanted thoughts and realizing also that pleasure can happen with or without an erect penis. It can happen like we there are so many accuchimants that you can incorporate into your sex life and they can be on your person like your hands, your mouth or you can purchase things that you enjoy and you can have amazing sex regardless of whatever else is going on with your health, with your life. I mean even like if you are positionally limited there's like you know cushions and lifts and all sorts of things that you can use to make sex comfortable. So like use them without shame.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think the question needs to be like what is it that what is your real goal, right? Because for a lot of us, I think it's very easy to just stop at well, we both maybe we have like an explosive simultaneous orgasm and then uh we fall into a sweaty mess together on the bed. Okay, cool. Interesting. Great. What's the goal underneath that? Because possibly the goal underneath that is we feel really deeply connected. We feel so in sync with each other. We both experience like massive amounts of pleasure. Great. There are so many ways to get to those real goals that don't necessarily require anyone part of anyone's body to be completely on board in this moment, right? And if you all you want is an orgasm, well, you don't need another person to do that,

>> right?

>> So, let's like focus in on the reality of the situation, right? Like it's with the other person and you're trying to connect with them. And if that's sexually and that's it, great. You're still trying to have a connection with someone else.

>> Yeah. Right. Right. Right. But like Yeah. Get one layer deeper. [laughter]

>> Some winks. I just don't have the time to meal prep and I'm running to work without my lunch. I used to just grab a protein shake for breakfast and whatever I could find in my pantry for lunch, but I never really felt satiated. I would find myself rooting around the nurses station after lunchtime looking for snacks and eating something like a donut or a cookie that made me feel horrible. I'm so grateful now that I have Hule's ready to drink shakes on those days. Hule is a complete meal and comes in multiple flavors including strawberry, banana, and iced coffee. And if you know me, you know I love coffee. They also have great macros. 35 g of protein, 6 g of fiber, 27 essential vitamins and minerals, no sugar, gluten-free, and they are under $5 a meal and ready to go. When I drink one of these, I can make it through the entire day without craving junk food, and it's a serious lifesaver. Hule also has these daily greens ready to drink sparkling super greens drink. It's developed by registered nutritionists and dieticians. It has over 42 vitamins, minerals, and superfoods. It's only 25 calories and has [clears throat] 4 g of fiber and only one gram of sugar. My favorite flavor is the apple cucumber mint. And I love drinking it because it feels like a treat and I can never remember to take my vitamins. And this not only does the trick, but it tastes great, too. Hule makes healthy eating simple. They just launched in Target stores nationwide. Try both products today with 15% off your purchase for new customers with my exclusive code, Reena, at www.huel.com/reena. Use my code and fill out the postcheckout survey to help support the show. Thanks so much. So, let's talk about another thing that I think plagues a lot of guys, which is how long their penis is. And I think that a lot of people, and I can say this universally, if I ask every single man who comes into my clinic, like 95% of them will say, "Yes, I want a longer penis." If it was easy and cheap and accessible and safe, yes, but there are obviously so many men where this is like a preoccupation. Like they are sort of thinking about it all the time. It limits them in the bedroom. Again, another thought, but I think it's a strong one and it's difficult to overcome because it's not something you can like get over, right, in terms of like you can't change that about yourself. Um, I mean, you can, but like not easily and not cheaply and not necessarily safely in all circumstances. So, yeah. What What are thoughts on that?

>> Yeah, all good points. Like, I used to say to folks that men would come to me for coaching and be like, "I'd give my left nut for a bigger penis." But you do that like with extenders and pumps and the only way that could even be considered close to safe to do that somewhat safe.

>> Somewhat safe. Yeah. Right. Not not safe like safer maybe.

>> Um and the answer is usually no. I don't have two hours to give to that and I don't want to give two hours to that every year. Right. So or every day and and totally valid and there are guys that do and

>> there are ways to learn about that. Totally different conversation. But as with most things, my thing is go back to the stuff that's easiest to change. Go back to the lowest hanging fruits because having a different penis is the fruit on the very top of the tree, right? But having a better sex life, feeling more confident, using what you have more intelligently, more um purposefully, those are lowhanging fruits. You can do those no matter what you're rocking in your pants. Coming back to like, okay, what is what is the actual goal here? How do we approach that from a different way? Maybe we haven't even considered that there's a different way. Maybe your goal is to be a great lover and give your partner cervical orgasms. And so you're very hung up on the idea that your penis has to be a certain length in order to reach her A spot or her P spot in order to stimulate it, right? Well, there are positions that you could try that may make it easier for you to get there with what you've got. There are toys that you can try that may make it easier to get there. There are ways that, you know, experiencing that might be worth trying. and she might be like, "Actually, I didn't really like how that felt when I was being stimulated up there, and I'd prefer that we don't do that again." Right? Depending on what your goal is, there are so many different ways to reach it. Again, this is sex. It's as old as time. Any challenge that you have, guarantee that people from every single continent during every single century and time period across planet Earth have had some thoughts on it. [laughter]

>> Yep. Great. Because, you know, before when we didn't have all that much to entertain us and we were making up stories about the stars in the sky, the the main like point of fun and pleasure, I think, for most human beings was sex. I think it remains.

>> You're like, "Oh, there's nothing else to do. Let's go have sex,

>> right?" Yeah. Let's and let's try to do that for hours because, you know, we've got a moment before we have to raid a village tomorrow and [laughter]

>> Yeah.

>> That's like that's I mean, I think it's still a good way to kill time personally, you know. I think

>> Yeah, it is.

>> But those it's the it's the thoughts, right? Like we need to consider all the ways in which like we map our insecurity onto our body.

>> The penis is a great I mean it's an awful place but it's a great very convenient place to map all of our insecurities on right because we measure it. It's shrouded in shame and secrecy. We have um you know these stories from porn and mainstream media that it needs to look a certain way. So, it's very easy for all of our insecurities, whether we're insecure about our our income or our ability to be a great dad or whatever your insecurity is about, you you can kind of like funnel all of that to this one thing and get hyperfocused on feeling insecure about your penis size. And when I frame it like that for men, usually what that does is it shakes up a little bit of what else is going on, right? And it also I think the majority of us don't want to feel insecure about anything. I my insecurities are the parts of me that I feel like the most tender about the the parts that I feel I have to um work on the most, right? And so if we can kind of pull apart the insecurity around penis size and give people like a little bit more of a of an understanding of what average actually is, uh what it takes to feel satisfied, what's actually really important in the bedroom. then we can begin to like soften around those insecurities. Soften

>> and this is why I think like I I'm all for people having agency to do whatever they want with their bodies, right? If there's if they want to enhance their penis, please understand the risks and benefits and move forward. That is fine with me. I want I wish I wish it was as easy as a boob job. I really do because I feel like men should have that opportunity. We just don't have that yet, right? It is not as simple in terms of you know there's a lot of things there's a lot of nerve endings. there's a lot of um you know specialized tissue that just you can't replicate, right? And so I I understand people like why can women get boob jobs and we can't get

Penis enhancement. Well, you can, but it's not going to be that simple.

It's a very false equivalency. These are meant to expand throughout our life, and they shrink every single month. Like, yeah, you can totally see how you could fit more stuff in here. Correct. Right. But the penis is pretty consistent. It's like up, down, but that's the whole range.

Yes. [laughter] Yeah. And so I think the other thing is, like, so, yeah, talking about it and understanding your insecurities, like, regardless of if you decide to do something or not, is going to make your life better. Yeah. Also, sharing with a partner, like, it's so powerful. It's probably one of the scariest things that you could be asked to do, to say, "I feel really insecure about this part of my body, and I just want to air that out into the space between us so that I'm not carrying that all for myself. I'm not asking you to say anything to soothe me or make me feel better. I don't want any white lies. I just want you to know that I deal with this."

Yeah. Shame can't survive in the light, right? When we air those things out and we have a supportive partner. If you have like a a partner who lacks communication skills or kindness, you know, not the right place.

Not the right partner. [laughter] Not the or the right partner. Uh, but sometimes, you know, it's not that simple. But naming things almost always improves them. Period. And even if it's not a safe partner that you have, like naming them to a professional, no matter what their relationship is to helping you with your penis-related stuff, like getting it off of your chest so that you're not suffering alone.

Yeah. Even though I'm a urologist, I probably spend like 80% of the time just letting people talk about their issues, right? Because I think it's so important that they have a safe space. And like a lot of men struggle with, and women too, struggle with going to seek help, right? And so if they're already in my office, like that's why I started my own practice so I could spend an hour with each patient so I could like let give them the space and time because they're not going to necess— not everyone is going to go see a therapist. Not everyone is going to go find another person they feel comfortable to talk to, right?

So I think it's it's so important. Can I ask you a follow-up question?

Of course you may. Do you think that for those folks you work with who are willing to work with a talk professional, whether it's a therapist or a coach, do you find that they get better outcomes across the board?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, if you can talk about it and because like I said, I have some tools, but I don't have all of them, right? And I think that like having someone whose whole purpose in in your life is to help you work on your thoughts and things like that is so valuable. We all could benefit from that, right?

Absolutely. Um, and so I think that it's obviously valuable and worth investing your time in, but I realize that this is a hard conversation to have and some people will not totally take that next step.

I've been thinking a lot about that recently because I I want I want to create a and I think I've done an amazing job of creating a safe space where men can come and speak about these things with trained professionals. But I know that we could be serving more men.

Yeah. And I know that more men would benefit because I meet them all the time. I I meet them out in the world and I see them in the comments and I I they they and all I want to do is be like, "Please accept the help that is available to you." And I understand that that can be scary. There are reasons that we don't do that. But I just Yeah.

I have some ideas. We should talk afterwards. And if anyone listening has ideas, comment, let us know. We We want to build something that helps all men. I think the other thing is you mentioned positions. People want to know what are positions they can use a normal, average size, maybe smaller than average size penis to potentially stimulate someone very deeply.

Totally. I I really used to um think that the positions conversation was really overrated because people come in and they they want a position, right? Like, but what should I do, right? And my thinking on it was always there are five positions total and everything else is a variation. And so I went out and I bought every book I could find that was like 1,007 sex positions or whatever. Yeah. And I went out to kind of like prove myself either right or wrong. I guess I was open researcher, right? Like I have a hypothesis. I think there's only five positions. And what I found is that there are way more athletic [clears throat] positions that even me as like a Pilates devotee can't sustain. Uh, and but if you rule those out, if you rule out the acrobatic positions, there really are maybe five positions for you to focus on. And every other piece of that is adjustment. So I recommend to people that you get into the mindset of doing A/B tests. By which I mean, do you like condition A or do you like condition B more? And so for even missionary, let's just take missionary as an example.

Condition A is missionary flat on a bed. And condition B is missionary with a pillow under her hips.

Okay. If B wins the initial test, then we make another A/B test. Then we move the pillow up a little bit or down a little bit and those become A and B. And then we try a thicker pillow and a thinner pillow and that becomes A and B. Or we try a thicker wedge and a small a smaller wedge and then those become A and B. In order to really find the positions that work for your individual bodies, testing is the best way and I think the the most neutral way, right? You're just collecting data in order to figure out what works best for you and especially even more so as you age and you collect injuries and you know, you don't even have to it's just a Tuesday and you've slept kind of funny, you know, it doesn't have to be a chronic condition for you to benefit from making those micro adjustments on top of that. What I'll say is that if you if you have a partner who is very, very lubricated, whether you added a lot of lube or you didn't add or she's she's just naturally very wet, then it's always a possibility to remove a little bit of lubrication to increase friction. This is something that I saw a lot when I was in graduate school was that actually people benefited from like taking a little towel or a paper towel and or like a napkin and just like tapping, just gently removing some of the wetness to create a little bit more friction, only if it works for both partners. So that is something that you can utilize as you're exploring these various positions because that actually makes a tremendous difference on both people's sensations. The other piece of that is any position where her legs are going to be closer together is going to create a different amount of sensation both for her and for you. So if she has a lot of trouble reaching orgasm during penetration, try positions that allow her to vary and test the width of her legs and the openness of her legs because that changes the shape of the vaginal canal and changes what um nerves and and what nerve endings are being stimulated in each of those various positions. And then lastly, the experiment of testing on the like angle that the two bodies are together.

And how they're connecting.

And how they're connecting. Yeah. Because I I studied one uh tradition called the Kudoska that posits that there are eight different types of of uh penises and eight different types of vaginas. And that like all of all of human anatomy is sort of like one of these sort of types. Falls closer to one of those, but it can also be a mix of any of them. So maybe there's like an infinite number, which is actually the truth. But if you think about it like that, then you don't really even need to know what type you are or what type your partner is to know that all of those different things are going to come together differently.

And especially when I talk to men who maybe like also want to compare themselves to porn stars or her previous lovers or they want to compare her body to their previous lovers' bodies. The truth is, it's not just small variations in anatomy. There are people who have hooded clitorises and longer vaginal canals. And there are folks who have like vaginas that tend to be drier and they tend to reach orgasm a lot more quickly. And there are people who have that like you are combining something that is so unique and so individual on one person with something that is equally unique and individual on another. The only way to figure out how these two bodies go together is to trial and see what happens.

Right. Right. It's like uh everyone has their own fit, right? And everyone has their own sort of connection. It's like you Yes, the vagina is very flexible and it can accommodate a wide variety of sizes, but it is certainly a specific size, right? And some women will achieve orgasm more easily. They there actually there's actually differences in like the the um distance between the clitoris and the vaginal canal. And that's so individual like if they've looked at ultrasound studies and they've seen like some people have more thicker, some people have thinner. like there's a whole bunch of variations that go into um how sensitive a partner is and how lubricated they are as you mentioned and so like yeah, it's worth it to try and I would just I would add one little thing is like don't try necessarily everything you see on porn because that is like the highest level of you know, of what abilities are sexually, but also they have like a team and they have like a a camera that's paused and turned back on and like all sorts of things. They have a warm-up routine. That would be like going to Cirque du Soleil and then leaving your home and being like, "I think we should do acrobatic backbends now, honey." Like, [laughter] no. Those folks warm up. They're trained. They also generally like have medical professionals that support them because they get injured a lot doing those things. And you may not see that because that all happens during, you know, the 10 years that it took them to get to that stage. And you don't get to skip the 10 years and just go straight to the finish line and expect the same from your body. There there's a there's a lot that you can do. I I put together a course on sex positions and one of the bonus videos is literally warm-ups.

Yeah. Like so that you can get into your body and you do them together with a partner, which gets you in sync and you're breathing and you're moving together and then you go into trying the the various sex positions and the different modifications.

I mean, synchrony is actually really important. So there's actually science on synchrony and how like when you're intimate with a partner, everything starts to synchronize, like you're breathing and you're, you know, and so it's a I think that's a great way to sort of warm up.

Yeah, totally. And then you bring that into the bedroom. One of my favorite things to do with my partner is take a yoga class together because we're literally moving and breathing together for an hour and we're sweating together and by the end of that or we go partner dancing. We do swing dancing together and whenever we've done either one of those, the sex that we have is off the charts exceptional. And it's not because we did anything differently in the bedroom. It's all the ways that we got in sync outside of the bedroom first.

Yeah. I mean, even anything that raises your heart rate can do that, right? Because during arousal, that happens. So, I think all those things are are really great. And and yeah, I think I love that idea of like taking just A/B testing. That's awesome. Let's talk a little bit about premature ejaculation. So, I think this is a a real problem in men where and they don't talk about it, right? But they don't last as long as they'd like to. And I think there's a lot of from the medical side, there's very little that we offer. I'll be honest. Like there's a few behavioral techniques, there's medications that all have side effects. There is nothing yet that I can say like, "You come into my office and I can fix you right away." Right? So I'd love to hear from your perspective. What are tools that you offer men to sort of support them?

Yeah. So premature ejaculation is really what sort of started my work with men because I was on a YouTube video about squirting and a bunch of men, literally thousands of men started applying for coaching with me and the the most common challenge that they were dealing with was premature ejaculation. And so I very quickly and because I was just out of school and as a former researcher, I started just like running my own little experiments with them. Sort of like being their their own uh um um cohorts. Yeah, by little words. [laughter] You know, like this is the sample size and this is the um condition and the control group and all that. And um what I have found is that if I was to give one word definition to premature ejaculation or what really causes it, it's tension. And that can be tension in the pelvic floor. That can also be tension in the mind. Usually there's a relationship between them because of the the way that our brain and body are connected. You don't really experience tension in one without having any tension in the other. M. And all of that pressure and all of that like tightness and tension leads to our body doing the thing that it evolved to do and getting out our genetic material so that our species can continue, right? And I always like tell guys, like, please be a little more gentle with yourself. Your body's actually like optimized to mate. Like there's a reason that this trait get got handed down and exists in up to one-third of men today. Mhm. That in addition to breath, what I often teach them to do is connect their brain more intentionally with their pelvic floor. And that is through a combination of breath and movement and just like somatic experiencing, really, because they're often so disconnected from what's happening in their pelvic floor that they they can't even describe it as tense or tight or strong or loose. Like they there's there's almost no information being passed back and forth between the two. I also teach them and and highly recommend that they change the way that they're masturbating. A lot of men grow up masturbating as quickly as possible to porn on their, you know, in the family bathroom or like the door locked, right? And waiting, you know, every step down the hall going, "Is that going to tell me that I've been in here for too long?" Right? And so you condition your body to get to orgasm as quickly as possible. Sometimes through even decades of masturbating to orgasm as quickly as possible. It makes perfect sense that your body is going to show up in bed and do the same thing. It's trained for that, right? And the way that you practice is the way that you play. So, if you can get to 15 minutes easily in masturbation, then you can get to 15 minutes more easily with a partner. And we're, you know, they're not exactly the same. So, we're we're skill building in masturbation and then we're bringing that over to partnered sex. But a lot of the way that men experience masturbation differently than partner sex is more about what's going on in their mind than what's going on in their body. And there are phenomenal strokers out there for men. I'm sure people send them to you and then they send them to me and they vibrate and they have vacuums and they were and they they're warmed or they're warm. I saw one the other day that literally had a clock on it like which I thought was really cool for doing this because it was a timer. As soon as you started it, it was like a stopwatch. It started.

But I don't know that could create more anxiety.

You just flip it upside down. No, no, but I'm [laughter] saying like like if you were but you would I think a guy would have a hard time not looking at it.

Oh yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm very competitive.

Yeah. I think it might I mean, it would be good for like research purposes, but it would also I think increase anxiety.

But I also I think actually it can help them increase control because they can be like, "I can't come yet. It's only been 14 minutes. I got to make it to 15 minutes." [laughter] And then they learn how to edge and how to breathe and how to like implement those the actual things that I'm teaching them and understand, you know, where are you on a scale from 1 to 10? If 10 is like, I'm going to reach I'm going to ejaculate. Are you at a five right now? Are you at a four? Are you at a nine? And you have a minute left before you can ejaculate. Like you can make adjustments to your behavior based on your goals. And then you repeat that over and over and over again while at the same time addressing whatever stories you're telling yourself about partnered sex or how you need to show up there or what she needs from you or, you know, that you're not enough or you're going to come too soon. And eventually with enough reps of both of those, you get to a place where you can not just last longer because you're able to like tolerate pleasure, but also you can actually get to the point where you feel very confident in your ability and it's no longer something that you're managing and you're just in the experience and choosing when to ejaculate.

And I would say rather than tolerate pleasure, it'd be relaxing into pleasure. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Allow for pleasure. Yeah.

And then I would say that 14 minutes is much longer than average, just for people listening. So average is like 5 to 6 minutes. Um, so if you if you are ejaculating within 5 to 6 minutes, it's completely normal. It's okay to want more, but I'm just saying it doesn't it's not necessarily physiologically, you know, necessary.

It's average. It's average. It may not be ideal for what you and your partner want, especially when it takes women 20 to 40 minutes to reach orgasm. So, if you're able to last 5 to seven with uh actual penis and vagina intercourse, consider that you need to spend 15 to 30 minutes warming her up if all she has is 7 minutes and you want her to reach an orgasm with penetration.

Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely.

I'm such a snob now. I'm [laughter] like, seven minutes? Like, come on. Let's go for 30. As a urologist dealing with complex issues, I see patients who struggle with depression and anxiety all the time. Not only are they suffering, but they're waiting for months to get in to see the psychiatrist and get the help they need. And I found a way to make that easier with Growth Therapy. Growth Therapy helps you find the right therapist for you. They connect you with thousands of independent licensed therapists across the United States. And if you don't like who you connect with the first time, you can easily switch to a new provider with no long-term commitment. The best part is you can find therapy when it works for you. Evenings, weekends, virtually or in person. Whatever challenges you're facing, Growth Therapy is here to help. Sessions average about $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growththerapy.com/drmalik today to get started. That's growththerapy.com/dmalik. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

Other tips on masturbation that you think that people besides going more quickly, what are other things men can do to like make masturbation a tool to help them be better in sex?

So, I love this question so much. It's like an obsession of mine. So, I teach a system called the Erotic Blueprints, and uh it's invented by my mentor Jia. I've got a whole YouTube series on it if you want to learn more about them. But I suggest using the Erotic Blueprints, which are energetic, sensual, sexual, kinky, and shape shifter to engage in masturbation. So, what do I mean by that? Start with an energetic approach, which means way less physical and a lot more feeling into the energy that exists. So, I'll give you an example that doesn't make it sound so woo woo. If you rub your hands together like this.

Yeah. And then you float one hand over your arm. There's a space like right here for me right now where I can actually feel my hand and I can feel my arm even without touching, right? I'm like aware of the space between them. I can feel like a little heat. And we have this incredible ability to really, I mean, I can there there are folks who can really feel the energy and you can feel the energy of from like quite a bit of distance because they've really trained that and they're very sensitive. But if you do this with yourself, if you do that with your cock and you just allow your body to sort of like think about it like it's reaching out. My nerve endings on both my hand and my arm are like reaching for each other now, trying to feel each other. Right? Even just something like that simple can actually engage a lot of awareness that's not otherwise present because we're going straight for touch. Right? So if we even just beed like say, "Oh, I'm aware that my body exists in space." Okay, that's interesting. I can feel like, oh wow, even like with that I can feel where there's tension or I can feel where I don't feel things and that's also very useful information. And then move from there into a slow increasing amount of touch and amount of stimulation. So, uh moving into the sensual blueprint is making it a sensory experience. So, making sure that you have a space that feels like at least um sensually supportive. Uh it doesn't necessarily mean having like a perfectly clean room, but maybe you like clear the clutter off of the bed or maybe you like turn on a fan or light a candle or something just to like give yourself give your five senses something to ground into. Men don't really think these things are for women, right, a lot of the time. But actually men are just as sensory oriented as women are. They just really haven't been given permission to like

light a candle.

To do it. Yeah. [laughter] And and maybe it's take a shower first, you know, whatever like has you feel grounded in your body so that you can experience pleasure in all five of your senses. Maybe it's putting on music. Yeah.

Um, but but then also using a high-quality lubricant. Like throw out the Jurgens, you guys. Like [laughter] lube is cheap. It's 2025. Like get [gasps] get a nice lube. It could be a silicone-based lube because it lasts a long time when you're masturbating.

Or it could be oil. It could be an oil-based lube. They make your skin feel better over time. Like this is good stuff. Treat like a self-care routine. And then don't use Vaseline or lotions, please. like get lube or if you have to oil from your kitchen, like olive oil is fine, but do not use other things they're going to irritate you, they're not going to feel good.

That's what it's meant for you. Like this I like to think like this is your guy, you know, like you want your cock to like be with you and perform and all right, and you have this relationship to it where you're like, "You just perform despite the fact that you're throwing like Vaseline." [laughter] That's not fair, you know, you wouldn't do that to someone you love. Treat them like someone you love. Um, but begin to like slowly ramp up. Do something called lingam massage, which I also teach. Like give yourself a massage instead of going straight for "this should feel good, this should feel arousing, this should get me to orgasm." And then once you've done that for a while, then move into a technique that feels like, you know, you're going to get closer to orgasm. Depending on if you're edging, that might edging meaning getting close to orgasm and then pulling off. Um, that technique might look different. Switch things up. Use your other hand, especially if you want to last longer. Changing sensation, maybe even bring in a toy because that's going to be a different amount of sensation so you can train differently. And then finally, bringing in uh fantasies, bringing in uh or visualization is what I actually prefer because I think going on a porn detox, if if any of the things that we've talked about today like really resonate and you think that porn is part of the challenge for you, like maybe take a little break with it and instead visualize yourself with a lover in that moment. Maybe a real lover that you're actually with or a future lover who you want to be with or like a um the wife or the girlfriend that you you are calling in for yourself. Imagine yourself like making love to her in those moments if you need some sort of erotic reference in here. And if you're able to just be present with yourself, with your body, with your experience, you don't need to add any visuals in here either. And then play around with it. So, all of these things, and you don't have to incorporate all of them at once, but even just making slight changes to your masturbation routine, even if it's just getting coconut oil instead of whatever [laughter] uh instead of petroleum jelly, uh these things add up and they really show your body that you care about your body. And you know, it works just the same way it works with a lover. When you show a lover or a partner or a woman in your life that you really care about her and her well-being, doesn't she also bloom and blossom under your care? Like body is the same.

Yes. Yes. And I mean I love that. Like I think um I think you know it's always like, "Oh, you're whacking off." Like all these things that we talk about when when men are like jerking off, whacking off. It's it's just like it's also describing what exactly not to do, right? Like don't just rush through it. Don't [laughter]

Yeah. If you are not if you're listening, you should watch to see that facial expression.

Well [laughter] you should do to the weeds in your yard.

Yes. Yes. So I mean Yeah. Absolutely. And and you can even try different like textures like you might have like a silk shirt or like something like that that can help like use a feather if you have one, right? Like something just really just try and experiment. Use the rest of your body. You know, so much of our masturbation, both men and women, is so genital focused and it like ignores every other nerve ending that we have in our arsenal of pleasure.

And your whole body can be erogenous if almost your whole body. [laughter]

Your maybe not like your chin or your like elbow. People train themselves to do all kinds of wild sexual stuff. [laughter]

But yeah, I mean, most of your body is quite erogenous. So if you want it to be like you can you can orgasm without ever touching your genitals.

Yes. Yeah. Absolutely.

Awesome. And try try orgasmic meditation also, which is like with I'm I recorded one. It's free on my website. Like it just guides someone through all of those things. A breathing technique, a body scan. Like you don't have to just figure it all out on your own. Especially if the voice in your head is like, "This is dumb," or "You don't know how to do this," or "It's not going to work," or whatever. Like listen to someone else's voice guide you through the practice until you feel the results and then it becomes easier for you to continue to pursue.

And yeah, I think a lot of like I I've I've been thinking about this a lot like men hesitate or think or really have to be convinced to like prioritize their sex life outside of just like having sex, right? Like if it means like talking like we talked about having a therapist or other things, but like the reality is that like you like you you should be doing this. Like this is another thought that you have in your head that's limiting you, you know, and so let's think about why why is it stupid to care about your sex?

Right? If you're spending the time here listening, if you follow your channel, if you care about getting it right on like a a physiological or biochemical level, like why not take one or two extra steps to really bring it across all of the levels of your your your humanness.

Yeah. You mentioned lingam massage. So tell me a little bit. There's these like techniques, lingam massage, yoni massage. Tell me about like their background. What do they what do they benefit? How to do them potentially?

Yeah. So, so they really have their background in original Tantra, but they've really been uh resurfaced in uh our world through through Neo-Tantra. People who are taking Tantric practices which are sometimes up to like 8,000 years old. I mean, there's there are lineages that have been passed from person to person for hundreds and in some cases thousands of years because like I said, people have been thinking about sex because it was the original way to entertain ourselves, connect, and feel good before we had TikTok. Uh [laughter] um, so so lingam massage and yoni massage are are both arousing and healing practices that we can engage in as lay people. You don't require a ton of extra skills in order to do this. I would argue that you have the right to touch yourself and your partner um in in these sorts of ways. And if you want more training, it's available. But they are touching the genitals of ourselves or of another person in ways that are not purely based on getting to orgasm and are more about the things that every other massage is about. Restoring blood flow to tissue, working out little knots and stuckness in our uh in our in our muscles and in the interstitia of our bodies. Uh restoring flow, restoring sensation, restoring pleasure, and also giving our bodies a different sense of different ways of touching ourselves. Just the same way that like when I rub my own shoulder, that feels kind of good. But when someone else rubs it, it feels better. And then when a professional rubs it, they might rub it in such a way that it really like releases a whole bunch of tension and feels exceptionally good. Yoni massage and lingam massage are built on the same idea. They're also a really great way, you know, especially if you have a partner that feels a little disconnected from their genitals. Maybe she experiences like maybe not pain with sex, but just like a little bit of discomfort, nothing that needs to be like elevated to a medical professional, but like sometimes that position doesn't feel that good because maybe she has um one side of her pelvic floor is like a little tighter than the other. Maybe the way that she does her kettlebell swings has been, you know, building up a little bit like extra tightness in her pelvic floor, right? We don't treat our genitals and our the muscles and the musculature behind them like we treat the rest of our body, right?

It's very easy for me to go and ask my partner to rub my shoulders and neck. Like it's a very different thing to say, "I would like for you to touch my vulva and vagina with that same care and tenderness without necessarily going for arousal and orgasm from a place of it's made out of muscles and they could use a little extra TLC right now."

Absolutely. And even further on on uh on penises, on cock-bodied folks, like on lings, I think there's very little thought on how to to start to to stroke and touch them other than what we've all been seen and conditioned is the the way that you touch a penis.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's awesome. I mean, I think that um that is so true. And I will say like in general, like those areas build up a lot of tension and I see it all the time in my practice. People build tension in their pelvic floors and they don't know because we're not really trained to be one with our pelvic floors. Um, and so but it's like wreaking havoc on their life and they don't know. And so like I think if prophylactically people did things like that, we'd probably see a lot less pelvic floor tension.

Yes. And I think also important, especially for women who intend to or have given birth vaginally. Um, not while they're pregnant necessarily, but uh certainly before they conceive. And there are specialists that do this for um women who are pregnant. Massaging just the vulva and the like introitis, all the external genitalia on a woman can lead to a very different delivery experience. Less tears and all those sort of things.

And I I've had the pleasure of working on women who had delivered uh vaginally to help them do um scar reduction and remediation in their vaginal canals because even if you had a very easy delivery, there still may be a little scarring on the inside of the vagina. And with the right technique and like just a lot of loving presence and castor oil and like, you know, a bit of skill, you can actually make a tremendous amount of difference uh for the way that a woman experiences sex after delivery, right?

And it's increasing blood flow, right? So like we talk about like getting better erections, um getting women to have better orgasms, all of that part, all of that is with increased blood flow, right? Increased blood flow means more blood flow to the penis and the clitoris, which ultimately means more arousal, which ultimately leads to better orgasms, more oxygen in the area, more healing in the air, more more um reduction of toxins and

It all it all makes sense.

Yeah, it's [laughter] it all makes sense. And I think also like if you are interested in spicing things up or you want to try something new or you want to create um like a a fun date night idea, like playing with yoni and lingam massage are such a great way because they're beneficial, right? Like you don't like I said, you don't have to be an expert. There. I've made courses on each of them. If you want to see an expert do it, but

You know, like even just your loving touch and a little bit of exploration can go so far. Do it slow.

Check in a lot. Start softer than you think you need to. Put aside 45 minutes, light a candle, you got an epic date night and you need better sex for a while, you know.

Yeah, I like that. And it's novel for a lot of people. So you add novelty.

Totally.

Yeah. You know, you've also talked and I talk about this too, prostate massage. So I think that um a lot of people are like, "Oh, that's an exit. We don't ever stimulate there." And there is obviously a lot of people who derive pleasure from prostate massage. So for someone who's like curious about learning more about that, how do you recommend men sort of start engaging in that area?

Slowly. That's the theme of a lot of my work. I [laughter] just do it slower.

Yeah. Um, and and part of that is because the the way that the anus works is that you can't you have one muscle that you can relax, one sphincter that you can relax, and one that you can't just tell to relax, right? Uh, and we all know this instinctively because we've all had times where like maybe going to the bathroom was really hard or we felt like we had to force it and then if we tried again later we were a lot more relaxed, right? Like or even the the terminology of like tight ass is like a literal term for someone who was like squeezing in their glutes and in their anus.

Yeah. So, it is best and this is true whether you are entering your own anus or a partner's anus to slow down and wait on the outside and right past the first sphincter for the other sphincter to relax all the way. If you try to force that process or you try to rush the process, the experience of pain, you're more likely to not want to do it again because it didn't feel good. It's going to take a lot longer to actually adjust to having something penetrating you. If you just go slow at the beginning, chances are that you're going to have a way greater experience and you're going to be able to um derive more pleasure from the experience overall. But it that's difficult, right? Like it's hard to be patient. Like we want to do the thing, we want to do it now.

Yeah. Um, I would also say for men, one of the things that my uh clients come to me for is like if they've been experimenting with prostate play, um, but they haven't found the right toy because not every prostate is, you know, one and a half inches or 2 inches or whatever inside of the rectum. Like some of them are and and and you know, your mileage will vary. So there are toys that are a little longer, there are toys that are a little shorter, there are toys that are have more of a of a hook to them. You know, I found that I have I have really short fingers. I have really small thin fingers and so when I've had partners that wanted me to stimulate their prostate when I didn't have these nails.

Yeah, short nails is good.

Short nails is vital. Yes. All butts don't love nails. Seeing from experience. Um, I I found that in order to reach my posture partner's prostate, I had to like push as hard as I could and it hurt the webbing of my finger. You know, it just wasn't physically very comfortable for me to do that. And so if you think about all the variations in bodies, like you may have to experiment with a couple different toys or you your partner may not be able to like really hit the spot. You also physically, especially if you have any sort of uh mobility issues or your wrist doesn't spin this direction, which I would argue is probably most of us.

Y— uh, you may benefit from just doing a lot of experimenting and and you know, if your if your anus isn't open right now, wait. If this toy didn't hit the spot, then try a different one. But don't give up. The only way to not exper— not like succeed at something is to stop trying.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think like Yes. Not and I think the important thing is not everyone is like, "Oh, prostate play is for me." But you won't know until you try if you're interested. I think it's worth experimenting because you might enjoy it and it might be something that you can use in addition to regular sexual penis and vagina intercourse. Um, and it could be fun. It could be fun even if you don't go all the way in to inside of your body all the way up to your prostate. Even just like experimenting with the outside of your body can be really pleasurable. The anus has almost as many nerve endings as the lips. So there is a lot of pleasure that is available from just that even if you don't go any further.

And even just stimulating the perineum. So the taint um that area, I just say because everyone knows what that is.

Everyone knows the taint. [laughter] Yeah. So you just um you can stimulate and put pressure there. You will sort of feel some of the prostate through that way too. And so if you don't want to go internal there, that's another place where you can experiment. I would just add lots of lubrication.

Always.

Lots of lubrication. The anus. The anus is not self-lubricating. It will not produce lubricant.

It doesn't, no matter how [laughter] hard you want it to, you can't you can't will it.

Yeah.

So let's talk about just like when you're with your partner, you talk about like titration and variation. So, how do you sort of get in the rhythm, right, that is going to keep your partner aroused, engaged, but also sort of allow for that variation?

Totally. I love that you So, this actually was something that I had a big insight on after watching videos during good sex because uh there was one couple in particular and as soon as they got into bed, they were at like a 10, just like full out and

Zero to 10.

Zero to 10. And I was watching this going, "How can I explain to them that if you don't really start at a one, you can't really enjoy all the stops up to the 10, right? And if you start at a 10, there's nowhere to go." Because if you just then when you, you know, eventually have to like dial it back from one or both [laughter] people, you feel like you're losing something, right? It's like it feels like you're in a concert and suddenly they turn down the volume. That doesn't feel good. We want them to like slowly turn up the volume until we have to put in our crochet mugs. Yes. So, uh, um, titration is the idea that you slowly add and slowly take away things over time. And what I like about this concept, especially in bed, is that it feels best generally for our nervous systems when someone like approaches us in a in a way that like gradually adds more. Even if we've been together for 20 years, like it feels best when we move up in intensity and in stimulation. And also that we move back down in intensity and stimulation. And that doesn't have to be one time over the course of an entire encounter. You could go up and then down and then up to a higher place and then down and then up to a higher place and down. And that's where variation comes in. And the idea is that in order to really stay engaged and create a what I like to think of as like an erotic journey together as opposed to just a session that you're boning, that experimenting with both like increasing the crescendo and decrescendo and then also bringing those to like various heights to to various amounts of intensity and providing variation in the different ways that you're stimulating. You can use A/B testing to figure out what kind of variation you want to bring in. Does she like this movement or that movement or does she like this one and at this speed or this speed? Right.

Yeah. You guys will have to watch to see how she moves.

Yes. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. This is I'm I'm a YouTuber, not a podcaster, so this is [laughter]

She's up and down, side to side, circular.

Circular. Right. And then really slow and then a little faster. Right. Which one did you like? A B.

A. And then refine, refine, refine.

And with your thumb, with your first finger, with. Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. Just test test test. You you'll figure it all out if you just boldly and courageously test and that does require a little bit of creativity and that's why you keep coming back to to sources of people that can share with you more ideas to test, right?

Yeah. Um, but to to put a cap on titration and variation, I think that but and I think I experience and and also the science says that when you experience the same repetitive motion at the same strength and the same speed over and over and over, your body quickly adapts to it and you no longer feel it in the same way as you did. It's just the same way that like if someone starts, you know, when someone maybe is like comforting you and they rub your arm a little bit or and like after a few rubs it either feels kind of irritating or it kind of falls into the

background. Like we, we, these are the things that we don't want to happen during a sexual encounter. We want a sexual encounter to continue to surprise our bodies. Yeah. In such a way that they are, um, moving closer and further away from orgasm, experiencing different kinds of pleasure. If you do this, you will leave both partners not just satisfied, but you, you will have done all of the things that we discussed along the way. It's easier to be present when things are changing, right? Because there's, there's things to pay attention to. It's easier to reach higher states of arousal. It's easier to wait longer before you reach orgasm. It's easier to get into sync with another person. When you are making little adjustments and changes to what you are doing along the way, you, you create the conditions that allow for that kind of sexual experience. And that's what I want everybody to have. I love that because I think that, I mean, so many people are just going 0 to 100, right? Like there is no journey to be had because everyone is so focused on climax. And look, orgasms are great, but the journey can be just as good.

>> Yeah. And since orgasms are not always guaranteed, but the journey is always a part of the experience, if you focus on that, you're more likely to have the orgasm that you wanted. Anyways, I wanted to talk a little bit about things that people, I think, are somewhat misinformed and and and putting them into modern sex. And they can be great, but they can also sometimes, uh, backfire, right, because they're not doing them as intended. So things like edging or tantric breathing, I think these are great tools. I'd love for you to talk a little bit about what they are and how you can use them in a way to enhance and how sometimes if you don't do them correctly, you can actually harm yourself.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, edging is the practice of getting yourself close to reaching orgasm and then backing off. Getting close to the edge or the point of no return and then allowing your arousal to subside a little bit. If we, if we said the point of no return is 10, then maybe you move yourself from 1 to 10 and back down to four or five and or not 10 rather, but like you move yourself up to nine and then back down to four or five and then up to seven and back and up to 9.5 and back. And what this does is really importantly, it trains you to know when your point of no return is because I think for a lot of men, especially if you haven't been, um, if you've been ejaculating quickly, it can kind of feel like that point happens very quickly and sort of like suddenly and you don't feel like you have a ton of control over when that happens. You might have the experience of you go from four to 10 and you don't really experience any sort of in the nuance of the numbers in between. And so when you have an edging practice, it becomes a lot easier for you to know, oh, I'm about to reach orgasm. I got to like slow down, cool off, change positions, and that way you can extend intercourse for longer.

>> The problem, I think, is that when people get extremely rigid about how to do this or they can like hyperfocus on this or think that more is better.

>> Yeah.

>> So, one of the greatest risks that I see is men who come to me and they're like, "Well, I typically edge for like hours or I edge for three or four hours every single day." And I, I come back and say like, "Is that really how number one, you want to be spending your time? Number two, you're training your body for delayed ejaculation. Now, you're going to make it harder for you to reach orgasm because again, how you practice is how you play. And then number three, like the, the purpose of this practice is to get to the point where you can last with a partner, which is 15, 20, maybe 30 minutes. There's no additional benefit to anything beyond that. And then usually they're doing that while they're watching porn. And you know, I had someone ask me the other day in my AMA like, you know, is this, what are the consequences of me doing this? And I did the math for him in in the moment and was like, you're spending whatever number of hours of your life, like what percentage of your waking life are you spending on edging. You could probably bring that to like 30 minutes four times is what I like to say. Like get, get to the edge four times. You don't need anything more than that and like allow it to become playful again instead of being soid.

>> rigid in in how you are exploring this. Here's a great analogy is like there's sort of at a cross between feminine and masculine ways of doing things, right? If we thought about the masculine way of doing things as like the very prescriptive, very rigid, very sort of like, uh, direct and intense way of doing things and the feminine way of doing things is like, um, has more flow, more, um, soft focus, has more slowness and more exploration to it. Like all of these practices ideally would sort of thread the needle between those. We would take them seriously, but we also would play with them. We would, we would do them in the way that they're intended and the way that experts have shared and done for thousands of years. And we also would make them our own. And in order to do those things correctly, that requires like one extra step of learning how they're done. There's tons of resources to figure that out. Not every expert really knows what they're talking about. Tons of people get wind of one of these and then they get on Instagram and they're like, I've sorted it out and this is how you are going to have multi-orggasmic experiences as a man. You're going to hold your ejaculation and like they read a single book on it, right?

>> Or not even a full book.

>> Right? Yeah. Right. They, they read like a wiki article on it and they're like, I've got it. I've sorted it out. Right.

>> Yeah. The same is true for tantric breathing or like energy play, right? I would say like start slowly, get professional guidance. Like there are professionals that are trained in this.

>> Yeah.

>> You also, like I said about lingum massage and yani massage, you have every right to play around with them. It's your body, right? Like you said, like do whatever you want with your body.

>> Just as when we're talking about like penis enlargement, do whatever you want with your body. Understand that these things come with risks,

>> right? And you can most certainly engage in a breath work practice or a guided visualization where you like you and your partner imagine a glowing orb of light and you pass it back and forth between you through your genitals like that's generally a pretty harmless thing to play with. Yeah. If you take it to an extreme and it and you start to override your intuitive sense of like, oh, I feel lightaded or this is causing me a little discomfort or I'm not able to like do this and also hold my partner up or whatever. Like, don't be so rigid in your thinking about it that you you commit to doing it how you think it should be done.

>> Play with it. Let it be playful. I love my male patients because when I tell them to do something, they're going to do it and they're going to and I, I always have to tell them, look, this is not something that you need to overdo. Like I have to preface it because if I tell them do this 10 times, they're going to do it like a hundred times,

>> right? And I say this with Kiggles, there's no trophy

>> for blowing out your pelvic floor.

>> Yeah. And I think that the one thing I will add to the edging situation, I think edging is is a great tool. I think it can be very transformative. I think people feel like during that little time where they're edging, it can feel almost meditative. it can feel really exciting. So for some people it's great. Uh, but for some people they are clenching down so hard they are developing pelvic floor dysfunction. And so I really worry about that. And then also you brought up a good point where people are like edging to for hours to pornography. And like, yeah, I guess if that's not ruining your life in any way, fine, but like again, how many hours do you really want to spend doing this? And like where does porn fall into all this? Right? And I think porn is a wonderful tool when used appropriately, but now with so much accessibility, it's sometimes becoming like a crutch or something that people are using to just

>> put themselves in a weird space.

>> Well, and I think it stands in for intimacy and connection.

>> And so, it's really easy to set up porn and edge for 2 hours and you do get a felt sense of connection. you're connecting really with yourself and you're having this sort of one-way connection with, um, the, the performers on screen, right? And it becomes sort of a standin for the intimacy and the connection that we really want. You know, I think the man who was asking me that question wanted to have a romantic partner and a girlfriend and eventually a wife. And instead of doing things during the other hour and a half of his night that like would allow him to meet people

>> or or develop like skills, interests, and hobbies that would make him really attractive to a partner. He was spending that time doing the pseudo intimacy thing of watching porn. So, is it getting you closer to your goals or is it moving away from them? And yes, I, I, this is why I also love working with men is like if they understand what it is and why it is, they're going to run with it,

>> right? And it is allowing it like at the end of the day, sex should be fun. So if if you've become so intense in your thinking that it it takes the fun out of it, then like let's go back and think about how we can enter from from a different angle such that you can enjoy it.

>> Yeah. Let's talk about some of the misconceptions with porn. I think people, I think everyone knows it's a produced product, but inherently they still feel like this is something that is like really something you can do in real life and I think the reality is that that's not exactly true. So what are some of the things that one, like pe, porn producers and stars are doing that are allowing people to to to produce these sorts of content and then like, I think knowing that helps a lot of people.

>> Yeah. Well, first of all, they recruit based on bodies. Yes. Right. So, so penis is easy and important. The reason that that guy is there is because of this one thing about his body. That is what allows him to to play this role and it is not reflective of, um, anything else about your sex life, about sex as a whole, about bodies as a whole, about averages. Like he's recruited because that's what he does. Just the same way that like stunt drivers are recruited for their special abilities, right? It just so happens that that those guys were born with it. But the same is true for women. And we've seen a rise in laboplasty and women who want to have their vulvas look like the vulvas of porn stars and having very minimal, uh, internal labia. And that's because when you're filming for camera, having extra labia around prevents you from like seeing the majority of like the, the head of the penis inserting into the vaginal canal. And that's what everything is being optimized for. That's what every shot, all the lighting, all the positions are all optimized for the viewer to see something. None of it is for the performer's pleasure, right? I think it's really important to get that. And I think that

>> this is even more important for younger folks to get because I, I was raised in the '90s. We saw internet porn, the early days of internet porn in high school.

>> I know that there are certain things from that time I can never unsee because it was like the wild west. You just downloaded a file, right? You didn't know what it was going to be. We didn't, they didn't just, you didn't just like hard drive.

>> Yeah. There were not thumbnails, you know, like it was just a list of words and titles and you'd just be like, I wonder what that is and then you would hope that it wasn't like, you know, going to scar you for life. Now, in 3 seconds, you can probably get an average porn site to load and there's hundreds of thumbnail images and it's just, it's very different, right? Yeah. So even if you, if you grew up in a time where you could easily access porn from a cell phone and you had a lot of your like formative educational experiences were around porn, understand that that it, it is going to take you more effort, I believe, to sort of like re-educate and recondition and and, uh, to come up with like a different baseline for what sex could look like. Now, here's the cool thing about porn is that because it is so vast and so varied, there are people who are creating erotic content that are average folks with average bodies who are in relationships, right? I mean, they're still filming for the camera, but I think we have seen an uptick in folks who are making love with their spouse and they're filming it and they're putting it on the internet. And if you find yourself seeing those and going, that's kind of boring or that's not as interesting as what I, you know, I came here to look for stepsister gangbang or whatever and like this is so dull like watch if you, if you really find that you can't give up, uh, you know, video erotic content like watch that stuff. Watch the stuff with the couple in love who care about each other and hold each other afterward because that will help you to like normalize what sex looks like when it's not in a performative context.

>> Yeah, absolutely. And I think like, yes, I, I learned, um, earlier today I interviewed someone and she said she did some consulting for the porn industry and there's like, at least in the porn, like the proper porn industry, there's like seven men and like 300 women. Like that's the ratio of like porn stars to gender ratios. So like, yeah, they're obviously being selected for their size and many of them, you know, are doing things to their penis like they're injecting medications. They have inflatable penile prostheses which are implanted devices so they can have an erection last as long as they want.

>> Um, and so these are these are things I think people need to be aware of,

>> right? Well, that's so interesting. Wait, can I ask you a question about prosthetics? Because, uh, I was at a talk over the summer and, uh, one of the people who specializes in penile implants said that the actual implants only come in so many sizes and you can't actually gain any size through the implant. You only have so much tissue to work with.

>> Correct. It does not make you longer or girthier. It gives you what you have. So it's meant to be for men who are not getting erections. Right. So in those cases, like you literally stretch your penis and that's as long as it's going to get and it's only going to get as wide as your penis will allow. So you know, there, there, there are sizes and you basically measure and then you pick the right size in the operating room and that's what they get. Again, not, it is not something that I would do get offer anybody who's having a normal

>> because there's all kinds of risks associated with any sort of surgery. Even, even in the best case scenario, you, you, you may not experience the same amount of sensation and pleasure that you have without making any changes to your body. you should be able to still achieve pleasure, but you will not get as strong of an erection as you would with your own body, right? And so that is, that's just like the matter of the fact. So I would not say get it recreationally.

>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Prevention is the best medicine in all of these areas.

>> Absolutely. Um, all right. So now I think what I want to end with is saying we've talked about a lot of different things. If you, if I gave you a magic wand and said, "I want you to create the curriculum for all people to learn about sex, what would you think people need to learn about?"

>> Pleasure is really a birthright and sex is designed to feel good. And I think if all of our sexuality curriculum started right there, then the way that that curriculum would go would be very, very different than a lot of the curriculum that we were exposed to, which is either sex is wrong, bad, shameful, and, um, and a sin or sex is how you get diseases, pregnancies, and, you know, um, a world of shame.

>> Mhm.

>> And because those are kind of the two models that we have. If we replaced that with the model that said this is normal, you were born to experience this and there's so many healthy ways to do it. And that, um, pleasure is a key component and the reason that we engage in this thing, right? I think about we teach driver's ed not to avoid accidents, but really to teach people how to get from point A to point B safely. And we teach sex as if everything about it relates to the worst and most catastrophic consequences of having it.

>> Yes.

>> And if we taught people how to just like drive for pleasure, drive to get from point A to point B, drive for connection, drive in a way that is respectful to other drivers,

>> we could have a world where not just sex was better, but like all of human connection was better as well.

>> I agree. And I, I really feel like giving people just the knowledge of their anatomy, which is something so basic, but like knowing what's normal, I think that is, and I'm sure you can test this from just your YouTube channel, like it is just makes a world of a difference for people.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like hold up a mirror, do a little bit of research, like, you know, learn, learn just the basics of what's going on both internally and externally. And from there, you experience a level of empowerment with your own body that you can take to wherever you want to go.

>> Absolutely. If you want someone to leave this conversation with one thing, what would it be?

>> I mean, the thing that I'm leaving this conversation with is really like that it's both. You know, I, we, we started off by acknowledging each other's channels and expertise and I so admire the, the world that you come from and you do things that I cannot do with the people who come to see me. Right. and I do things that you can't do. And we're not trained to do each other's things. And that's what's so cool about both of our worlds is that you can do the deep dive and have the, you know, full 360 understanding of your world and the ways that you support people and I can do the same and we can come together to support someone in this like model that is more holistic and addresses internal, external, physiological, psychological. Like there's so much to sex and I know that, you know, as a former researcher myself, but I'm like even deeper in appreciation of it right now that that there are folks out here that are that are doing what you're doing, that you're doing what you're doing, that you're educating in the way that you are with your channel and like what a, what a benefit it is to combine worlds. So,

>> absolutely. Absolutely. And I think like so much, there's always more to learn and like, I think you, I think investing in learning and and whether it's through free content or whatever, buying books, any of those things, I think doing that is the best thing you can do for yourself more than any materialistic purchase, more than anything else is like learning and prioritizing yourself when it comes to pleasure, when it comes to connection, when it comes to relationships. like God, I just, I hope for the future that like people still continue to prioritize relationships because, um, it's a, it's a very different world than what we grew up in. And I just, um, I think that that's so important.

>> Lastly, where can people find you on YouTube? [laughter]

>> Our mutual neighborhood of YouTube. Uh, you can find me at YouTube, Caitlyn V, Ci V or at Caitlyn Vneel.com.

>> Yes. And you have a book coming out?

>> I have a book coming out January 27th. My book, Harder, Better, Longer, Stronger, will be released. And you then have a book coming out.

>> Yes. Mine is in October 2026 and it will soon. It's okay. We can talk about it. [laughter] October 2026. And so it will be, um, I'm so excited for both of her books. And we're both in the same publisher.

>> The same publisher. 2026 is a huge year for advancing the conversation around men's sexuality. That's like all I have to say.

>> You know, there are very few books on men's sexual health. So, I'm glad yours is coming out and I think ours will do wonders for everyone listening.

>> I think it'll be just like our conversation today. Like you're going to get, you'll get from both sides. So, if you really want to, um, if you want to like maximize what you're getting and optimize, like learn from both.

>> Yeah. And it's, it's an affordable easy way to learn. Um, we do end our podcast with four questions. They can be about your work, about your life, anything. Okay. So, what's something you know in your life that you wish you knew earlier?

>> This is going to sound maybe a little cliche, but it's so true. I wish that I knew that I was worthy of being loved the way I wanted to be loved earlier.

>> That's deep.

>> It's very deep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Well, I'm glad you know that now.

>> Yeah.

>> But I think it's, I think it brings up a good point. Like I think

>> we sometimes think we people have to settle for what they get. But the reality is like everyone deserves love and affection

>> and you're not too much because you want to be loved a specific way. there there may be someone out there who's like very eager to love you in that way. It took me a while to learn that.

>> That's sweet. And I, I do think it's really important for men. I find that men are, they, they get into whatever relationship they're in and they're just comfortable and they just want peace and they don't want to rock the boat. But the reality is if you're not getting love the way you deserve, like you, you should and and you owe it to yourself to prioritize that because I find that, I mean, we know that like the majority of divorces are started by women and like I feel like men just sort of they just, they ride the wave, but like I think it's okay to do some introspection,

>> right? Or they think that this is the, this is like maybe as good as it's going to get. And I think it's really difficult to to remind yourself that actually being alone together is often worse and more painful than just being alone.

>> Yeah. But do the work. I mean, relationships are hard.

>> Start with the relationship that you're in. See if you can invest in in making it the kind of loving relationship that you want. And after like one or two years of concerted effort to look internally and not so much externally, but like hope hopefully your partner's doing the work themselves

>> and doing some work together.

>> Yeah.

>> And doing some work together. Yeah, if after years you you realize that it's not shifting, then consider moving on to something else. I did so much internal work, uh, to make a previous relationship work. And then when I finally did get divorced, I, I had refined and softened and and like learned so much about myself and that process. I wouldn't change anything about the amount of work that we put in trying to make that relationship work because I got to bring all of that into not just my future relationship, but all of the relationships in my life.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, what is a non-negotiable? Something you have to do every day.

>> I'm going to, I'm going to give you the thing that came to me first because I think that's really important in interviews. My water pick.

>> Okay.

>> I love oral hygiene so much. I, I love my water pick. All the dentists are getting so excited right now.

>> I, it came from a hard difficult place cuz I had gum issues and gum challenges in my life and and but I realized early on that if I just like committed to making that routine enjoyable for myself that, um, that I would do it. And so I actually like when I,

>> when I was first having issues, I used to paint on all of my like flosses and toothpastes and everything cuz I made, I wanted to make it like enjoyable and pretty and fun and I would like reward myself for like seven days in a row of doing this. And now 20 years later almost, I like, I like get jazzed every night cuz I'm like, "Oh, it's waterpick time." Oh gosh, I need to like take some ideas there. [laughter] I have a pink one, too. I feel like Yeah, I could go on about that. That's that's when I when I relisted to this interview, I'm going to be like, "That was what you went with?" [laughter] But that was the truth. That was the truth. Look, it's I've had people be like, "I take a dump or I like or like I brush my teeth." I'm like, "Okay, guys, come on. Everyone does that." Like no, the water is a non, if I have to like go and stay at a hotel and I don't bring you travel one.

>> No, I haven't sort of got a travel one.

>> So I guess it's not really a non-negotiable for me cuz I,

>> you got to get a travel one. There are, I mean, they're a little bigger, but like they're not like the big one that you, you know,

>> I travel with a whole giant suitcase and all this luggage. So it's, what's, what's a water pack that would really, yes, you're right. I'm going to do that immediately before I even drive away from here. I'm ordering my [laughter] travel water pack. Love it.

>> [gasps]

>> Um, and then what is a life hack or health hack you would share with the audience?

>> Again, this is because it's what's like most present for me in this moment. So, you're getting like right now today, Caitlyn. Um, I have been taking magnesium L3N8 and acetylcholine.

>> Mhm.

>> And they are and I, and I, I now have been on and off of them enough times to say definitively that I notice such a tremendous difference in my mental sharpness, memory, and, um, focus that like that combination of those two. And I'm taking like the most expensive versions of them. I've been trying to like figure out if I can reduce my cost on both of those. Um, but I'm taking like liposal magnesium L38 at night and acetylcholine in the morning. And when I now go a couple weeks without them, I feel less sharp and less clear and like I, you know, I'm keeping less plates spinning.

>> Um, and as my job and calendar have more and different demands and I have to keep flipping between hats during the day, I'm interviewing and then I'm and then I'm a CEO and then I'm a coach and then I'm a friend and a partner. Like they feel like they're keeping me a lot crisper.

>> Yeah. Well, magazine malfina is expensive. Is it always okay? I think it's supposed to be.

>> I, acetylcholine doesn't have to be as expensive.

>> I don't know about that one, but I know magnesium L38ate is is somewhat expensive. It's the most expensive version of magnesium. Apparently,

>> it is effective.

>> Well, I've heard, I mean, I think there's reasonable data on that, so that's good. Um, if you couldn't be a sex educator or a coach and not a researcher because you were one, right?

>> What would you be?

>> I'd probably own a spa.

>> Yeah. What kind of spa? like, uh, not a medical spa, like a, like a vibe spa or

>> like a massage, like massage and facials or like

>> like steam, massage, facial, maybe more advanced facial practices, like more of the, the tech heavy facial stuff, but not necessarily like injections. I think I really like the, um, kind of, it's also like a little kinky actually, like there's, there's an overlap between like the electric stimulation stuff that you see in a dungeon and what you see in a spa.

>> M

>> um, but like the high frequency wand and I forget the name of the, the, the electrodes that you like move along the skin. It's like a bell.

>> I really couldn't tell you. I don't do any facials. I'm like, literally like I'm not a facial person. I do like skincare.

>> I want your health. I [laughter]

>> you, I, I did like one facial like before my wedding and like not like right before, but you know, and I was like, this just feels like they're rubbing my face and I just was like, and then I just never did.

>> Oh my god. If I had your skin naturally, I probably wouldn't do facials either. But I find them to be really fun and I love going.

>> No, it feels like a nice pampering thing.

>> I love having my face massaged though. I feel like I carry a lot of tension. I think we all do in my, in the muscles of my face. And so just like having an hour of someone

>> gently, you know,

>> I think I need to give it another shot. But I [laughter]

>> I, I also have, I've been using a red light machine for the last several months. And I have like a full body one. Like I just, it's got a little arm and it goes over my bed and I just do 10 minutes on each side at night.

>> That's made my skin all,

>> I have a face mask one. Yeah.

>> Do you use it?

>> Yeah. I mean, not as often as I should. I'm really bad. I'm really non-compliant. I'm like a horrible doctor. Like I'm a horrible patient. So like if you tell me to do something, like I'll do it and then I'll get bored.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It took me months of using the red light and it was only because I figured out the form factor that made it easy for me to do every day cuz the mask I found very difficult to to commit to. But if I can just lay there and I listen to something or podcast,

>> I think it has to be like really close to your skin to work. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong.

>> It depends. I have a super strong red light and so I put it about 12 to 16 inches away

>> um for 10 minutes. And I think if you move it closer, you can do less time or further, more time. Uh, it's my skin has never been better. And if you had told me that I could skip chemical peels and just do 20 minutes of red light a day 10 years ago, I wouldn't have believed you.

>> Yeah.

>> But I wish that I had done it. [laughter]

>> Well, red light wasn't a thing 20 years ago.

>> The science goes back 50 years. You weren't selling it commercially.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You had to be like ultra wealthy and even they get you like the red light tanning bed.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much.

>> Thank you. Before we hit cut, I want to say thank you first of all so much for having me.

>> Of course. Check out, uh, the description for all the courses that, uh, that you talked about.

>> Great.

>> Awesome.

>> Awesome. Thank you.

>> Thank you guys so much for joining us on today's episode of the Reena Malik MD podcast. If you made it to the end and you love this episode, make sure to subscribe, follow, rate, and review the podcast. It is so quick and easy and it helps the podcast tremendously. And as always, want to take care of yourself because you're worth