Just Copy My 7-Figure Land Flipping Business (live lecture)

Pre-2022, you could just get dumb lucky. Who's gotten dumb lucky in this business? You send out some mail, you just land some big deals. That's how the business used to be, and it's not like that anymore.

Yeah, you reap what you sow, but it takes 6 months to to actually collect, you know, sometimes way longer. Like the real cash conversion cycle could be really 12 months in some cases in this business. A lot of people aren't prepared for that.

Um, you know, it's funny. I had two conversations this morning about partnership and land. Everyone, it looks different. There's a, you know, it certainly could work, but this is one of the worst businesses, sorry, to partner in. There's no like the the division of labor rarely is complimentary. It's rarely fair. And when we look at land insights with Kyle, Ryland, myself, really good division of labor, very complimentary.

In land, a lot of times the person you're partnering with, you could hire someone to do that same work. Yes. With no equity, none. And in some cases, they're even better. Sometimes partners are pretty entitled. Uh, so I'm not a big fan of partnership. Unfortunately, who here has partners in their land business? Just out of curiosity. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Okay, cool. Yeah, if it's a spouse, it's a different story. You know, that's I can't knock that. I'm saying, well, for sure. I think working with your significant other in any business would be Yeah. But it could strengthen the relationship when done correctly.

Um, for the people that raised their hands to they're doing well, I know K, you said you've been having a great year. At least your hands told me that. Why? Why? Why has it been so good? What do you think? Oh, I don't know. Um, I'm relatively new in the space. Um, I totally absorb all of your content, all Deita YouTube channel. Um, and I really took to heart what you said and I remember the podcast when you were talking about partners and I was just like, yep. But I've been in business before, you know, I've been through the partner thing. And so I I was able to luckily take some lessons from being an entrepreneur prior and kind of bringing that into land. Um, and just, you know, figuring it out as I go. And I'll give you some I'll give you some feedback, but I think you're doing well.

Who here knows Kay Walker? Kay's amazing. She's a rising star. Everyone loves Kay. Um, okay. I sent you a voice memo not too long ago going over this, but you are doing everything in your business. I think right now you have a VA. Is that right? Um, no. You So, it's just you doing everything. I have a a male assistant assistant. Okay. Yeah. Cool. Well, I I'm going to guesstimate why I think you're doing well. And this will tie back into what we're going to talk about here today. You've got the X factor on the phones. I think you're good on the phones. I I have an acquisition manager by our time. She answers. Yes. Do you take any calls with sellers? Uh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do you close most of the deals? I would say I when I get back on the phone with them, I will close them or I will send my manager information to close them. Okay. Okay. Cool. Yeah.

So, it really just breaks down to two things. One, you got to have the skill on the phone. We don't need to be a slick salesperson, but it's the act perfect example of where you're going to fuel competition. So, we need to use marketing channels better than everyone else. The good news is it's just pretty easy to be slightly better. And to do that, we need to track data. That's something that K's has done really well. You do some weird stuff with your marketing that I would never expect, but the data backs it up and you test and you test and you test and you find what works. Do you mind sharing what you do with your your mailers? It's kind of interesting.

Um, we do we do a few different things. So, we have different tiers of of mailers. Um, tier one, tier two, and tier three. Tier one is going to be your number 10 double window. Uh, we print that in house. design the the template in house. Let's just say that again. You print you print them inhouse and you design them in house. Yep. We have like a we work space. We have like four offices. One is just like the operations room and we just add another one. Yeah. So why do you print them in house? Just out of curiosity. The speed. The speed. Yeah. And are you sending first class? Yes. Always. Okay. Who here? Who else is sending first class? Anyone here? Interesting. Have you split tested first class versus regular postage? Yes. And is there a palpable difference noticeable? To me, it it just gets there quicker.

So, I'll use one that I use often. Who here is like a first- time entrepreneur? Yeah. This like the first business you ever had? Okay. Um, entrepreneurship is a weird game, obviously. Maybe not for everyone. uh for some people it's maybe in their DNA but I think anyone can be successful at walking this path but there's a learning curve and I think one of the biggest learning curves that we have to figure out is our ability to make decisions and make the right decisions and then where do we spend our time everyone in this room has the same 24 hours but why do we have radically different results that's what shocks me at this business is pretty simple we've got the same time maybe pull bigger teams or smaller teams etc but why is there such a delta in results why do you guys any ideas? No one I I promise you it's not someone knows the best market that you don't know about or some secret information.

I think it is like when we look at a business, imagine it's this wall right here and I walk in and I start a new business and there's 50 levers on this wall and each lever is a decision I get to make of where I'm going to spend my time. And some levers are really high leverage to give you a lot of bang for your buck and some don't matter at all. And so I see someone like K. Walker and your time's going in the places that are highest leverage and you're getting good bang for your buck. The other thing, anyone know what a synonym for marketing would be? Any ideas? Anyone take a shot? Testing. Yeah, dude. Marketing is the game. It's like the scientific method. Come up with a hypothesis. You just test test. And the arbitrage is in testing.

Mike, you run, you've ran Facebook ads, right? Yep. If I slap together a Facebook ad, I put up a video. I drive it to a calendarly form. Hope people book a call. I'm trying to close them on a call. You think I'm going to make money with that? Am I going to get a 10x row on that? Hell no. Hell no. It's the same thing. If you're using a cookie cutter letter that everyone else is using, you ain't going to get great results. If you're doing just the bare minimum, there's no arbitrage there. And so, it's a game of testing. That's true for all marketing channels. It's testing the creative. It's testing the copy. It's testing the cadence. is testing putting multiple marketing channels together where you build this funnel that you take sellers through. Who here's testing that stuff? Anyone? Anyone else? Nope. Yeah, Jerry. Well, Jerry, we know you are. I would I would expect nothing nothing but that.

Um, this business is weird cuz it's it's maturing and it's gone through uh an interesting cycle. After 2022, I'll never forget the date. July 2022. I just realized, holy [ __ ] the business changed. interest rates went up. The business has never been the same since. I don't think it's just because of interest rates, but for whatever reason, that just marked a radical shift in my mind for this business. And with that maturing now, it's just harder to get that yield. It's hard to get that arbitrage. But the good news is it's it's really not that much harder. You just have to try a little bit more. Like there's this pool we could swim in that everyone's swimming in. It's a blood bath. There's big gray wikes in there. It's dangerous. You walk up the hill 100 yards, there's a beautiful pool you can swim in. It's a blue ocean. It's it's beautiful water. It's warm, it's temperate, and you're the only one swimming in there. And it's just a little more effort that's required.

But, you know, pre202, you can just get dumb lucky. Who's gotten dumb luck in this business? You send up send out some mail, you just land some big deals. That's how the business used to be. And it's not like that anymore. And so, hopefully I can address that today in my presentation. All right. Um, you got it pulled up. Cool. So, I'm going to go I'm going to walk you guys through the KPIs for my business. We'll go through the last month. I'm going to tell a couple stories as well. Um, you know, it's funny. The longer I've been running Leah, the more I just want to be more more transparent. Just really leave nothing uh behind the scenes. And so, I'm going to be very, very, very honest today. I think that it's I'm not calling anyone out, but I think there is a little bit of a lack of honesty in this business. I'm actually going to stand up. You know, a lot of people will show you a deal they did or what have you, but does that really matter? You could show me a cool deal, but show me the whole thing, you know, and show me the show me the struggle, too. Because when you watch YouTube videos, who feels like this business looks easy as hell when you watch a YouTube video? Someone's killing it. Like, [ __ ] why is that not me, man? What am I doing wrong? The truth is, we all go through hard things in this business.

So, there's some KPIs. We're going to walk through some more here, but I'll tell you guys a quick story. So, I launched Leah September 1st of 2022. It became significant January of 2023. I don't know, something just happened. It just clicked and all of a sudden, a ton of people started joining and it became my sole focus. And so, I was all in. My land business took a backseat. We launched Leah or not Leah, we launched Land Insights June of 2023 and all of a sudden I had no time, like no time. And so from 2023 to the middle of 2024, I'm not exaggerating, I took one meeting per week in my land business. It's about an hour and a half meeting. And I'd say about once a month I would spend an hour or two going through our CRM. That that's the full amount of time I put in. I mean maybe four to six hours a month. And in that time for 2023, I took a salary and a dividend of 500,000. And then same for 2024. you know, that's great for the time that I was putting in, but it was a step backwards and I felt not good about it. I knew I had more potential and it pissed me off. And yeah, again, it's like it's that that's good money, but I I just knew I could do more. And so, in the middle of 2024, I decided, you know what? I'm putting more time back into this business. And when I say more time, I mean a few extra hours per month. Nothing nothing huge, but I said, I'm going back to the drawing board. There was a lot of problems in my business that had creeped up because entry took over. You know, I wasn't leading. I had a call with my team and that was it. So, I tore everything down to the studs. Like, I redid everything. I fired probably a quarter of our team members and one by one just started ripping everything apart in our business. And I'll share that in a second. But first, I'm going to go through some KPIs. Uh, can you go back to the first one, please? and then make uh Yep. scroll up. Okay. Uh cool.

So, the first thing that I did is I redid my whole entire acquisition team. I let go of one person. I upgraded another person. I paid them way more. A huge increase in base salary. A huge increase in the percentage they get on deals. They get upwards. There's kickers, but uh they can get a max of 12% of the gross profit on deals. They have multiple deals right now that that on a single deal they'll make4 to $60,000 as a commission. That's a that's a lot of [ __ ] money. That's a lot of money to pay someone. One of the things I've learned is you want to pay your sales people very well. Very very very very well. Uh especially in this business because people often get the idea, well why don't I just do this on my own? You know, it seems easy enough. I'll just start my own land business. And so we got to keep them happy. So that's the first thing. I redid my acquisition team and I redid uh a bit of the process around it.

Couple of the big changes I made. One, I ensured that my team was adhering to all the [ __ ] we teach inside of Leah. We weren't we weren't perfect. Our speed to lead was down. Does anyone know our 14-day new seller new lead cadence is the It's got a different name than that. Does anyone know what that is? New lead comes in that 14-day process we go we go through to get a hold of them because what I've learned in the acquisition process, the first thing that matters is what's their connect rate? How does anyone know their connect rate for a new lead? So, you generate a 100 leads. You only got 60 of them on the phone. What about the other 40? Right. The next thing I thought about, okay, how many of those leads that we get on the phone? How many of them get a verbal offer? Anyone know that stat? No. [ __ ] Everyone should get a verbal offer. Why not? It's at no cost to you. You never know what's going to happen. Make the offer. We think about what's the speed to get that offer out. Anyone know the speed to get that first offer out for them? No. These are all things that we need to know in this modern age. It's just it's we just can't not know them and we can't not try to improve them. It's just not possible anymore. So our role is we've got two business days. Our first call when a new lead comes in. If we connect that's our kind of setting the frame, building rapport, understanding about the property. We schedule that second call typically on a calendar invite. You can use Calendarly. And we make our offer. And then we figure out out of the the verbal offers that we've made, how many of them actually get a contract sent. Anyone know those stats for themselves? No one. Not even Ken. Oh, sorry. What was the question? Contract. Out of the verbal offers that you make, how many of them get a contract? We send everyone everyone contract for every verbal offer. Yep. Okay. The next thing I thought about was, okay, once we send an offer, what do we do from there? Right. And so, building a process around that. The next thing that we figured out is for all of the people, the nonresponders that we weren't able to get a hold of, how can we get them on the phone? It's hard. It's a lot of work. You know, we generate, how many leads did we generate last month? 5009 leads in our land business. We get it floats between like depends on the acquisition manager, but floats somewhere between maybe 75% maybe maybe upwards of 80% for a connect rate. We still have a lot of room for improvement there.

The first thing that I did is I used follow-up boss. I set up texting Betty. Does anyone know what texting Betty is? Yeah. Who uses follow-up boss here? Raise your hand. Okay. Are you guys using texting texting Betty? Got to get it. So, it's a plugin into follow-up boss. So, if you use the action plans in Follow-up Boss, you can only send one drip text. Text is like the best way to get a hold of someone. It's got the the the highest response rate. So, Texting Betty is a plug-in through Twilio. You pay $150 a month. They charge you some a fraction of a penny per text. You can send unlimited drip texts. So, we built out a ton of these drip campaigns with text. Then I did something I thought I would never do. We started using RBMs. Now, who here uses RBMs? Yeah, too scary for me to send them to cold leads. I'm okay. I'll pass on that. But people inside of our CRM, we have action plans that combine texting Betty with RVMs. Our pickup rate went up overnight. Sure enough, we start doing more contracts.

One of the other things we put in place for sending contracts is all contracts, the seller has to be walked through that contract on the phone. We'll either do it right then and there and send the contract while they're on the phone or if that's not possible, send the contract, call them up again and then walk them through it. The last thing that we did on the acquisition process, we just became better on the phones. So, every single week I do we do seven meetings per week with my team. I don't run the seven of them, I run two of them. We've got an all hands meeting and on Thursdays I do an acquisition training call. That is the highest use of your time as a CEO in my opinion. I get on those calls, we we just jam for two hours, deals just start flying in. It's instantaneous. Not only can I teach them things, they can get better, but also builds camaraderie. Like, who who here takes a lot of calls in their land business? You ever just have a day where you feel terrible after taking calls? Like you get your teeth kicked in. Yeah. You feel that, Preston? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Your team feels that, too. And your team might be making a 100red, 200 dials a day. They feel it. It's a tough job. it's no joke. So, they better get paid well and they better feel like they're a part of something. And so, that builds a lot of camaraderie. That's that's again one of the the easiest changes that we've made. I would say it's one of the highest ROI changes that we've made. So, that was the first thing that took me from somewhere like the middle of the summer of last year until about December to get that right. So, I just started one thing. That was my only focus. I'm just fixing this. I think a lot of people get this like I'm doing 12 different things at once. I'm doing four different marketing channels. I'm hiring this person. I'm doing this. No. one thing at a time, one lever at a time, and just focus on that, master it, fix it, move on.

So, the next thing I needed to fix was our marketing. None of our marketing channels were performing as good as I thought they could be performing. So, I said, "All right, I'm removing everything but one. I'm going to start with one. I'm going to master one, then we're going to add in the next one." At that time, we were doing PPC. I was doing a little bit of cold RVMs. We were doing texting, and we were doing mail. All of those channels work, but they weren't working as well as I knew they could. I know there's no way that I can fix all of them at once. So, okay, I'm going to start with one. So, we chose texting. I like texting once you have a team in place. Once you have an acquisition manager and you have a texting manager, you have someone that can run comps for you, like an underwriter. It is my favorite marketing channel once you have support. It requires a hell of a lot of labor and it requires skill. But, I can go and test and validate markets really quickly. And if you run texting appropriately, it's probably got the best rowass out of any channel. Texting results vary wildly based on skill and process. Some people I know get one contract per 50,000 texts. We flow, it depends on the month, but some months it's one signed contract that we move forward with for 5,000 texts. And a bad month would be like 15,000 texts. Uh and that same month that that same month fully weighted it, it's probably a little bit better than that. So, I ran that from uh December, beginning of January until about 45 days ago. We got it into a really good place. We got a great texting team. So, okay, next on the list, I'm adding cold calling. So, we just hired two cold callers out of Egypt if anyone wants a little bit of free game. Egypt is the hub right now to be hiring from, especially for cold callers. Um, where's Cole? Cole, can you just share your experience just really briefly? just give me the KPI for your Egyptian full call. Yeah, so four parttime Egyptian full calls. Uh what we've seen so far, so I've only been running it for a few months. Um but we've called 2,000 people, got two contracts in 2000. And what's the gross profit value of those contracts? It's 20,000 per contract. Yeah. Solid. So $40,000 in gross profit. What's the cost to make $2,000 roughly? I got to get on top of that, but it's probably a few hundred. What do you pay your pool callers? Callers. Okay. They're stoked about that. Okay. And they're part-time. So, what's the full salary for one cold call? So, it's believe it's like 280 a month. 280 a month. So, 280 a month. I'm going to pick on you real quick, Cole. He's not using a triple at the line dialer. Shame on him. Make sure you're using ready vote or something like that. And he's calling on a go high level, which has the worst pickup rate. You'd expect about a 10% pickup rate. Cool calling on a go high level. if you're using a better calling service 15 maybe 20%. Um, so there's some really easy tweaks we can make there to juice those numbers.

So that was it. Building the cold call team and next we're adding in mail again and we're going through a new mail process. One of the things that I'm doing is I'm building out a $5,000 mailer case study. We're on week three this week that's going to be filmed here at the office. And I'm going through and showing you guys my entire mailing process, redoing my mailer. Taking some inspiration from Kay, getting really focused on the design, the envelope, the postage, really playing with it. You know, again, I've been doing the vanilla stuff for a long time and it works, but I knew I could do better. You know what really pisses me off is knowing your potential and not realizing it. Who here who like who gets mad at that? Oh man, that pisses me off. And we all go through phases. Like there's times I go to the gym, I'm like, I'm just going through the motions and it makes me so mad. I get fuming about it. And that's how I feel about my land business. I just couldn't settle for the fact that I know I can do more and I'm just not doing what I know is possible. And it wasn't a matter of putting in a lot more time. You know, nowadays I probably average five to six hours a week. So I was doing what I was doing in a month in a week now. But it's just focusing on the right areas.

Um, so I'm documenting that entire mail process. I'm going to give away all of my letters. You guys can steal my letters, the ones that I'm designing. I'm giving away everything. The process, all of it will be downloadable. All that will be public. It's free. It'll be on YouTube. Honestly, the more I like the longer I do this, the more I just want to give away everything for free. And the more I just want to be radically vulnerable. I don't know. It feels good. And I think that there's more to take away from that.

Um, so that's where we're at now. And once we have those three channels in place, I don't think I'm going to be adding any more, at least not for the foreseeable future. We'll just be adding fire or gasoline to the fire rather. We want to get our texts up to about 500,000 per month. Cold calls, I think I can hit about 15,000 dials per cold caller. That should bring in somewhere around 30 to 40 leads. I can't decide if I want to sit down or stand up. And the mail we're being really targeted with, so probably 10 to 15,000 mailers fully ramped up. And what I'm trying to build is something that I've always wanted to build and I've never been able to figure out and that is a true marketing funnel for land. A lead goes through text, they go through this sequence, they go through cold call, they go through this sequence, they go through mail. It's just so on and so forth. We get the highest list penetration. Does anyone have that figured out? Because if you do, I'd love to talk to you. Anyone figure that out yet? It's a hard nut to crack and it's hard to say discipline to it.

Um, one of the things I'll go through today, too, is I'll share everyone on my team what those roles are. You really need a CMO. You really need a marketing manager to run that. Um, and he needs software. I think there's not a not a good software that you can just do all of that from. Kyle, I would love a tool where you could text, cold call, send mail, pick your markets, price your markets. Uh, maybe that's the future of land insights, but I would love to just be able to do that all in one platform where it's like is automated. Hey some nerd, your team needs to make these 300 cold calls today because they came from the text and they were uh non-responders or what have you. Cool. So far you guys liking this format? Yeah. Helpful. Okay. All right. Let's go through the KPIs. So this is for uh May and you got a comparison for April. Okay. Total text sent 188,000. Didn't grow. So we went from 127 the month before to 188 uh in May. What do you guys think I did to make that happen? Hey, that's a lot. That's a lot more text. 60,000 more text. Anyone else? Maybe. Anyone else? Launch control. Well, we did upgrade our plan. Anyone else? Any ideas? What was that? Is that total text or people text? Like is that like you had a conversation with somebody and that was 10 text? That's indiv. Yeah, that's right. That's individual owners. So, we reached 188,000 owners last month opposed to 127. What's funny is the only thing I did different is we refined our comping process using the land insights comp tool. The bottleneck for texting is not sending the text, it's comping the deal. So, I said, "Okay, how can we bring that down from six minutes to 3 minutes or whatever?" So, we've made that faster. We just use the lane insights comping tool. We have a really cool new feature that Kyle's going to share with us today. It's the first time anyone's ever seen this before that just Is that Has that shipped live yet? When do you know when we're gonna ship it? Probably two weeks. Probably two weeks. It's freaking awesome. It's so cool. We'll share that with you guys here today. It's so cool.

Um, so faster compounding deals, slightly change your pre-qualification process. We opened up the funnel a little bit more, so a little less time going through pre-quall and the the text conversations. Uh, and lastly, bump the pay. Pay people more. It's one of the easiest things. Find good people, just pay them more money. It's like so many folks, sorry, I'm going to pick on you. So many folks take the Ryland playbook. How do I find the $2 an hour VA that can do the job for me? No, I want A+ people that can pay a lot of money. And it's like so high ROI. It's not linear. Uh, you just get way more bang for your buck. So, just two texters to send out all those text messages. Just two texters. Uh each texter we pay I should note this. We pay them $6 an hour. I think that's blended between the two. I think there's a slight pay difference. One's at 550, one's at 6 something. So multiply that by what 160 hours a month. So,000 bucks or so per textter. Uh one of those texters has been with me for like three and a half years. And that's one thing that I really focus on. Parts of paying people really well. I try to keep people forever. churn in your business of team members is it's the worst. It's the worst. I actually just lost one of our acquisition managers like a day before coming to this event and it sucks. And the time to get a new AM in our business will probably cost me in between with the opportunity cost maybe 150 grand, 200 grand. That's expensive. Then I got to allocate my team's time to finding them, to training them, got to pay the recruiters. It sucks. So I try to keep people forever.

All right. Total text received. Those are responses. That's 15,000 texts uh that we got responded back to us. From that, we generated 509 new leads in our business opposed to 320 from the month before. That's over a 50% jump. Same people, 50% jump. And I think that's a good example of again just levers. What lever am I pulling on? I think a lot of people look at that problem and say, "I just need to hire more people." Well, maybe not. Maybe there's a better way to do things. And so I'm always just thinking about what decision should I make next that has the highest bang for my buck, the highest utility. Is anyone here like a like a utilitarian or is anyone think like that? Anyone like Okay. Uh I'm just trying to think in terms of utility.

Uh total leads total hot leads created from the 50977. That was a drop from last month. We had one of our AM's the month before get a little buck wild with the who they were marking as a hot lead. Uh typically we were generating about 50 hot leads a month outside of April. So it was again about a 50% gain. And you'll see that across the board. The math is pretty linear, right? We bump our text by whatever I'm not even sure what the math is in that 50% or so. We get essentially 50% more uh responses. We get about 50% more total leads. Again, you see how the math is very linear. You want to see that? Yeah. And this all the business is. It's so simple. Put in the right inputs. Put in more of the inputs. Once it works, you'll get more output. It's just that simple.

Contract set 37 slightly down from last month. Like there's so many things wrong with these numbers here. That's why my job is to make sure that I have people that I've trained that are constantly micromanaging these things and course correcting. It's a game of always course correcting. You never get it right and it just stays right. Oh [ __ ] this must be our our response rate is down or our connect rate is down. And so I've built leaders within the business that are monitoring the stuff, catching the stuff, and rectifying the stuff. But there's always problems.

From that, we generated 15 contracts signed. That's up from eight the month prior. The total aggregate value list price of those is 1.26 million. We're very, very, very, very, very, very, very conservative with our underwriting. I'll give you guys an example of how conservative we are with our underwriting. I think a lot of folks are way too optimistic when they look at deals. Who feels like they're too optimistic? Oh, this is going to sell at 100 grand. It sells at 70. Anyone ever experienced that? It's so common. We're in the business of turning and burning inventory. I'll call on Cole real quick one more time. I was hanging out with Cole last night. He said, "I had this deal. Cole, what' you buy that deal at?" 95,000. 95,000. You had it under contract. You're going to sell it at 205 for a couple different reasons. The the buyer comes back to you and what they they knocked it down to what price? 184. 184. You know what Cole does? He cancels the contract. No, Cole turned the damn deal. There's always a better deal around this corner. We're just turning inventory.

Uh so I'll give you a quick example though. We had a deal uh we got an offer on last month on the dispos. We bought the deal for 32,000. My team underwrote that it's going to sell at 60. You guys want to know what the offer came back? We got on the dispos. Any guesses? 4540. No, 180,000. We're extreme and maybe we're too conservative in that example, but we're very very very very conservative. So, when I share these numbers with you guys, they are about as legit as you can possibly get in terms of underwriting. I've just been jaded and burned too many times to trust uh expectations that are optimistic. The estimated pipeline profit, that's gross profit. That's not net profit is 735,000 from those deals, those 15 contracts. We run somewhere at maybe 65% margin, something like that in terms of net. Um, so not a bad month. That's up from 236,000 the month before. And again, again, all I did is I just jacked up the input where it mattered at the top of the funnel. You guys can see the actual breakdown here. This texture brought in 479,000 of pipeline profit and 213 uh for Richie. Kind of interesting, right? You know what we did here? Any guesses? Paid her more. It is that simple. I just paid her more. Now, the way I paid her more is I didn't bump her Oh, no. I did bump her base pay. We bumped it by 50 50 cents per hour and we bumped her uh what she takes on on gross profit. So she gets 1% uh gross profit for deals that she generates. I mean you're seeing it in the flesh. What's interesting is she usually underperforms Richie, but last month she beat Richie by almost double. That's pretty crazy. Scroll down a little bit more, Rob.

Okay, so here's some acquisition statistics. So Jordan's US-based. Eva's overseas. Um, Jordan can't be here this weekend or this week, unfortunately. I'd love for you guys to meet him. He's he's an amazing guy. Um, Jordan's very interesting. One of my favorite recruitment funnels, and there's probably a lot of people in this room that kind of started like this with me in some capacity is I hire interns, sometimes unpaid, sometimes paid, and I use that as a hiring funnel. And you'd be shocked the kind of talent that get generated from that. So, I try before I buy kind of thing. So, Jordan started as an intern. He was an intern for about a year and a half. Then last year we bumped into him to a full-time role uh with really really really good compensation. And then Eva, she's from Egypt. She actually just left us like 3 days ago. Amazing acquisition manager. There's some mental health stuff that she's going through. She's taking a pause. It could be who knows how long. So we're filling that role. But you guys can see all the stats there. Um, that's the breakdown. Jordan went crazy this month. The reason he went crazy this month and Eva had a bit of a sluggish month. Even though this is a good month for her, um about two and a half, three weeks into the month, she checked out. She went to the hospital with heart attack conditions. Luckily, it wasn't a heart attack. It was a panic attack. Then got prescribed on some anti-anxiety medication and just a lot of stuff going on in her life. She's the bread winner. She supports her entire family in Egypt. She lost her father, I think, a year and a half ago. She's a full-time college professor as well. She's taught in Italy. She teaches in Egypt now. She's in Cairo. And uh yeah, she just she just hit a rough patch. But you guys can see the numbers here.

Uh before I keep on going, are there questions so far? You guys have questions for me? Yeah. What texting platform do you use to be able to push out that many? Yeah, Launch Control. I swear by Launch Control up and down all day long. I've used the other tools. Launch Control just is the best. Smart contract? No. No. No. I don't like smart contract. Yes. Not a fan of the UI. I don't like their pricing model. I like the support that we get with Launch Control. They treat us really well. They'll write copy for us. They have like this litigation protection. Just the way it's engineered to. It keeps you safer than than smarter contact in my opinion. And I'm not going to lie, every marketing channel besides relate direct mail carries some level of risk. It's just the nature of things. Texting isn't illegal, but there's a gray area and you got to be careful. I know some people that get crazy. They hit up like the do not contact people. We don't do any of that stuff. I play super sick. I don't say this to scare people, but you got sued two days ago. Oh man, what happened? TCPA previous. Interesting, man. I didn't even know that was a rule. Scary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 8 to 9 in their time zone. In their time zone. Got it. Okay. So, yeah, I know that's a good thing. I should take note of that. Let's get someone write that down. You want to write that down for me? That's a new one. The TCPA laws are a mess. There's there's a lot to to know there. Um I have a couple friends that have been nicked for texting. You end up settling a couple thousand bucks. And actually, one example, um, I believe Michael Bull got hit with a fine. The guy tried to sue him. They settled and then lost control covered a portion of it. I think it was like two grand or something like that. And he texted someone in the DNC. I think he texted multiple times. So, I mean, fair game, right? Ryland, have you run into any issues? I never said, okay, they they just cow around. Well, that's the funny thing. A lot of these people, they're sending these in mass and so like if you're too hard to deal with, wow, they're on to the next. It's a business for these people often times. Uh there's even courses out there that teach people how to do this, which is crazy.

So what's the marketing for? Yeah. Uh it's good question. It's not a hell of a lot. So if I look at So we have unlimited data. We use inside of land in sites, we use the uh standard skip tracing for most of our skips. It does vary. That's two cents per skip. What? Ron, what's the launch control plan cost for the scale of texting? I forget. It's six grand for 10k a day. Yeah. So, we're pay six grand. I pay my a the texturers about a,000 bucks a month per I'm not going to factor in the spread on gross profit. It gets a little confusing. I've got an underwriter. I think we pay him 700 bucks a month. He underwrites uh for AM and helps with the launch control stuff. Honestly though, his work in the launch control side is minimal. It's mainly when the leads come in because our textures are really good at underwriting. They honestly they use that AI comp value inside land insights religiously. And it's okay if we're slightly wrong. We give a wide. There was a really good deal that we did uh I think some point last month. I was reviewing with my team and I love doing these post-mortem reviews. So I'll take a really good deal or a couple really good deals and we'll walk through and say what are the signals here? There's always a signal or a few signals. What can we learn from this deal that we can spot next time is like pattern recognition for when another deal like this comes through. And there's a lot of things that we catch, but one of the interesting things is we look at effort in terms of text. So what was their response? Longer response emojis, they throw in an LOL, LMF, FAO, like they're playing with us, they're engaging. It's stupid, but sending the the yes versus yes with a paragraph that says something. That's a signal that they're somewhat invested in us. And sure enough, that deal had that. The guy was making jokes. He's like, "I'm gonna have an oldfashioned this weekend. Then I'm gonna call you at Monday at 8 8 a.m. So, he's putting the ball in his court. He's defining it with a time." That's a really strong signal. And we gave him an offer and he just ignored it through text. He didn't say anything about the offer, but he kept on speaking to us. That's a really good signal.

Anyone know what the number one pre-qualification signal is once the sellers in your CRM? Number one. It doesn't even come close. Nothing happened close to it. They they pick up soon. How soon? Within 24 hours. Actually, probably within probably an hour. So, the number one pre-qualification signal, this is this is some sauce right here because once you have a lot of leads, again, just like when we talked about the levers on the board, I got to figure out also where do I or where does my team spend their time with the leads? You got 500 leads. Where should we sp be spending time? I can't spend time with all of them equally. So, we have to figure out, okay, who's worth our time? But it's not always obvious. It's not always like, "Yeah, send me the contract. Let's sign now." So, same day response. They respond same day. When I've gone and done a meta analysis on my deals, something like 90% of all the deals I've done, they responded same day. Crazy. Same day. That's a crazy signal. The other thing is, one sec. If they don't respond same day, a second tier strong signal is if they reach back out to us. So, I called them today and then they text me tomorrow. So, if I get some kind of response from them where they're reaching out to me that I didn't prompt that day, that's a pretty strong signal as well. But it's that same day responsiveness, which really good. Also, if they leave a voicemail, so if they call us and we miss it and leave us a voicemail, it's a really strong signal. What's up, man? You got a question? So, the it's like number one pre-qualification criteria is them responding to text or picking up a phone call in the same day. Anything once they're in the CRM? So I'm not talking through the text but so like when a new lead comes in we text we email we call and if they respond to one of those that's questions I question about kind of the volume of the contact you know so if you look across all your channels you texting cold over the course of a year how many individual land owners would you estimate have a followup okay yeah we have so the cold callers are still in training they start making live dials on Monday. My expectation is about 15,000 dials per cold caller. So, we've got two cold callers right now. That's 360,000 touches per year of individual owners. Some of that will probably overlap though with the texting data. So, hard for me to say, but dude, 2 million individual owners. So, okay. So my follow-up question is how many individual land owners of rural land do you think there are in the US? What I'm trying here's what I'm getting at. It comes to a saturation, right? So you're getting around two million and I don't know how many land owners there are but you know individual you know people multiple parcels rural vac and your just by yourself two million probably number two because my it's just it's really hard to not saturation issue because you're because of technology you're so many Yeah. Is there millions of land? Yeah, I think I don't know about rural land, but someone could crack me. I think there's 45 million land owners or individual parcels of land. Not Yeah, we can figure out the number. We can figure out the number. Kyle might want to pull that up while we're give you the exact number, but go ahead. I was just say so we have like 40 terabytes of ownership data in land insights. So that's a lot of data. Um, so but we could probably calculate exactly how many. Yeah, maybe we can get a number. individual land. Yeah, there's like there's like hundreds and millions of pieces of land. You have to be kidding. So, here's the thing though, and this is this is the mindset switch. Why does seller

sell? They have a need, but I might not catch them when they have a need, right? So, timing is the ultimate variable. And then also, do they think Byron or they think Sumar or Ryland, whoever can fulfill on the promise that we're making them? So, there's a trust factor there. They might trust you and they might not trust me or my team. Like it's just it is variable. Different strokes, different folks. Some people just jail with others. But it's a timing thing. There are so many people on here that I'm sure I hit and someone else hit. They got the deal. I didn't get the deal because they hit them one week later. My text warmed them up to the idea. Then Ryland text them the next week and he got the contract because they've been thinking about it for a week. They forgot about me. Now Ryland shows up at the right time. So such a timing variable.

The best example of this is the whole Phoenix MSA. This is the real estate capital of America, I think. And you probably know that. How many? Well, you were in sub, too. It's like the real estate mecca. Oh, yeah. For sure. The mecca. And there's tons of them here, right? And they're all working here. I mean, how many houses are there in this area? Not that many. Most of them are working in uh, what? Gilbert. Gilbert. Gilbert's a really popular area. And so, you I like to look at it in like tighter pockets, like little MSAs. And there are probably 10,000 real estate investors working here, maybe more. The math that I think in the land business is I think that you know there's probably like 25, 30,000 people that have come through the business in the last five years, 10 years. There's probably 10 to 12,000 that are somewhat active and a very small number that are like really doing this, hundreds maybe. You know what I mean? So, no, I think the saturation point is so much further than what we would anticipate. I think there's somewhere around 2 million like single family home investors, wholesalers, fix and flippers, bur people, and there's about an equal amount of individual land parcels of land as there are houses. So, 10,000 land investors, whatever, a couple million real estate investors. And I actually like learning from those people because they're running at a crazy scale and they're very efficient because they have to be. So, will the business become more mature? Yeah, for sure. But the rug's not going to get pulled from anyone in in the near term at all. There's a decade or decades of insane potential here. Like insane.

And because you can be the best person on the phone, but if you don't have a big hairy goal that you're going after, what's the point? So, Jordan's getting married. He's getting ready to have kids. That's a big freaking goal. He wants to retire his his fiance and be the bread winner. Eva's a real estate investor in Egypt. She bought a rental property. She wants to buy more. She wants to build a portfolio. So, I look for those signals because I can provide the opportunity, but you got to be ambitious. Yeah.

And do are you um do you think tracking their KPIs like how much maintenance goes into sort of creating someone great and when is it time to let them go? What do you mean by maintenance? Well, like do you prep them? This is what I expect from you and you check in at a high frequency over a month or is it just every month? Yeah. How how frequently are you maintaining? So, when you hire someone brand new, there's a hell of a lot of frequency. Like they're being shadowed for two weeks. They're watching an AM make calls so that we already have one of the AM's is watching them make calls. Like we're really on them. Usually about the two week mark, I just cut them loose. So, it's time to jump into the deep end. I can't delay it forever. And then once they're active, they send in a daily report card that gets uh my team goes through that and gives feedback based off the daily report card. I've got team members that track all of the task statuses inside of our uh CRM. Our team goes through the actual lead records. So, we see their speed to lead. We see what was the offer that they made. We listen to those calls. We don't listen to all the calls. We listen to some of the calls. The ones that seem like they could be problem childs. Like why did we do it like this? And even with a good team, we still make so many mistakes. Hey, this lead came in yesterday. We still made a call. So, it is constant oversight. How you deliver that feedback though has to be gentle. You're going to piss people off if you micromanage them. They're like you have to have like the awareness of a micromanager, but like the delivery of like a normal person. you just you can't be over overbearing. Uh, then we have a daily standup. So, a daily kind of scrum call every single morning. They go through, hey, these are the leads I'm carrying over from yesterday. This is what I'm working on. These are things I think I'm going to close today. So, we have full visibility in terms of like, yeah, what like what are your goals today? Then we get on that next call tomorrow where they report on that. Hey, these were my five hot leads. I'm sending out these contracts. I only sent out four out of the five. Well, why was that? What's going on with that fifth one? We'll go through it with them. And then uh a weekly sales training call. That's huge.

Do you have an AM? I don't. Okay. Who here has an acquisition person? Yeah. Who here is doing consistent weekly sales training? No. Josh. And then it would be Josh. On average signed contracts with a seller. Yeah. I know that like I know the majority of our deals, like a slight majority, maybe 60% or so, take at least 30 days from a lead getting to the CRM. I don't know the number of touches to be honest, but if I had to guess, 20, 25. Yeah. But dude, there are many, many deals. If I go to my CRM later today, I'll share with you guys. There are many deals where there's 300 touches, 200 touches. And I have found a one to one correlation. Our best deals, the record always looks like that. Just a ton of touches and usually a lot of time with the seller. Huh? With the seller of the? Yeah. On the acquisition side. Yeah. I mean, that the that some you tough reached out like back and forth that many times and some it's not always us chasing them like we just had to have a lot of conversations, you know I mean.

Um, so the dispo side, some of the interesting stuff that we're doing here um one of the things again about 3 months ago or so, beginning of this year, Q1, I said, okay, we've got to fix our dispo process. We've got way too many deals on market and our conversion just wasn't as good as I wanted it to be. It's still not as good as I want it to be. We should be doing about 10 deals, 12 deals a month. I think we'll hit that this month and I think we'll kind of continue that pace. So, some of the changes that we've made haven't gone into effect. The first thing that I did is I went through all of the properties. So, first off, we sold pretty much all of our deals on the MLS. Who's doing mostly MLS here? Yeah. Is the best place to sell most? Uh, what's funny is when I started this business, no one was selling on the MLS. It was all land.com, Facebook, you know, the game has changed. Everyone's like, "Oh, the MLS. I would never do that." So, pretty much all the MLS. I went through a flat fee phase for years. Who uses a flat fee MLS? I try to avoid like the plague. There's so so many problems with it. Namely that a lot of the leads you get don't even ever make it to you. So, I'm not a fan of the flat unless you end up paying a commission to the buyer's agent anyways. And buyer agents show properties that have a higher commission on them. So, you know, you say 5%. I could just paid that to my listing agent. It's just an easier game to list it with an agent, especially as we started doing more double closes. There's a halo effect that agents have. People think that like the hard part of double closing is with the seller. Not really. Sellers love the the option. It's actually like for the right seller, that's like the best thing I've ever seen. On the disco side, double closes are hard. Like the the the buyer's agent looks up, hey, you're not on title, summoner, or the the buyer looks it up personally or the title company says something. So, we use agents. There's a halo effect. The title company treats us differently. The buyer's agent treats us differently. We get no pushback on double closes because people trust that agent. And to find agents that take double closes that do double closes, you just got to call a lot of people. Hard to find. Double closing is exclusively a who not how problem. It's just the right person, right title company, right realtor. You can do a double close in any state. South Carolina, maybe not. Although I know people I know people that have even today double closing through Facebook. It's really a rule that relates to the MLS. So, it's possible.

Um, so yeah, we we we find great agents inside of Land Insights. We pick all of our agents. So, there's the agent dashboard. Who uses that? So, the two things that we do is we use the double close agent list that that solves for the double close on on on most of our deals. We don't have it in every MLS out there, but most of them, we curated that list by hand. There's actually this gentleman Preston here was the guy that put that together. Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of phone calls to put that list together. Every single person on that list has been interviewed by us, signed a contract that yes, I will take on your users double closes. So, that's like a legit list. A lot of work went into that. Um, and then for uh standard agents, I use that land insights dashboard. The first thing I look at is what brokerages are moving the most volume. So, you can see brokerage, you can see their active inventory and the sold inventory. I'll go to that brokerage's website and we'll see what kind of listings they're bringing on. Are they mainly houses? Are they mainly land? Are they [ __ ] listings? Um, I try to work with land brokerages. Who here uses like the classic white tail, that stuff? Mossio, they're better. Honestly, you pay them a little bit more. Usually they're better. Not always, but usually. They can be tougher on the double closes, but if you build a good relationship with them, they'll take on any deal you bring to them. It's really not not that big of a deal. Just like I pay my team more or I've gone to that realization. Same with agents. Pay your agents a good fee, man. They'll work forwards and backwards for you to get the deal done. We sell our deals faster with good agents and sometimes we even make more on the deal with good agents. Uh, so we spent a lot of time there.

So, the first thing I did when beginning of this year, as I looked at the agents we were listing with and they were trash, my team was taking the path of lease resistance because I wasn't managing them. Of course, entry takes over. They start getting sloppy. Our deals weren't selling because they're with Karen over at Subies. Karen does not care about our property. We took some iPhone photos and we got like Yeah, it was just just it was just a mess. So, the first thing was we solved and we started picking really good agents and I grilled my team on it. The second thing that we did is no listing can get listed without drone photos. We have a drone photo SOP that we give to our agents. We make them take the drone photos and we edit all of them inside of Land Insights. So, we use landing sites. We put the lot lines, the color correction, all that stuff. People click on your listing like like dispositions is really an internet marketing game. People click on your listings because it's beautiful. Your photos have to tell a story. So, we need drone photos. It's hard to sell them without drone photos. We need the right sequence of photos. You oftentimes have five photos to tell the full story and you really have one photo to get the click. And so we need to make sure that we get the click then they look at those five photos and it tells the full story. So, if you've got five photos that are all the same, you know, thousand foot view of the property, that's probably not going to move the needle for people. It's not going to get them excited. So, if there's a well on the property, I'm going to show that in one of the five photos. If there's a cabin, I'm going to show that. I'm going to show the quality of the road. I'm going to show the cover image, which is always going to be a drone image. And they're beautiful. Who has who's ever seen our listings before? Are they good? Oh, yeah. I would say they're probably the best in the business. Maybe maybe Lando has me beat. Even Land Who knows Landio? Yeah, they're pretty good. Even that sometimes they list properties in a weird way though. No lot lines, you know, so we've just standardized that process. Those SOPs are inside of LEAS, the same ones that we use in our business. If a if a realtor doesn't take drone photos for you, they're probably not a land realtor. No land realtor doesn't have access to a drone. So, it's a pre-qualification signal for uh realtors. We design them ourselves. And then inside of LEO, we use that two week SOP for following up with realtors. So, we have a realtor form that we send out. Who uses that? Come on, guys. There's too many LEA members in here to not be using that. No one real. Yeah. So, bi-weekly we send out this realtor status report. They have to fill out the KPIs into that status report. And what I Well, I don't tell realtors this, but the idea is usually when you deal with a realtor, the realtor is the expert. And so, they're used to being the expert and they got this consumer person listing a property with them. No, no. When they come with us, they work for us. We're the expert. They're following along. We've got a process that they walk into. I don't care about their comping feedback. But most of it's nonsense. I don't listen to it. We just follow be to our own drum and they're plugging into our system. We track their KPIs. We consult on those KPIs. We expect that they follow up with leads. If they had a showing and they haven't called that person, that's a problem. If they got an offer where they didn't deliver to us for 3 days or what, like, we just manage them. They're an employee in our business or a contractor in our business while we work together. Some agents hate that. That's great. That's again, it's a pre-qualification signal. I'm not going to work with you. Some agents love it because we sell deals and they're walking into a system where they just don't really have to do much. Call the seller, call the leads, show the property, send the offers once we get them. That's it. That's all they have to do. And so for them, for the right agent, it's kind of like a sigh of relief.

Um, this is huge. This is huge. When we list properties, first off, we're in the business of selling properties, and really to sell properties, we have to pass off a discount to the next person. We're not trying to capitalize on full market value. It depends on the demand of the market. Some markets I'm capturing 95% of that full market value spread. Some markets I'm at 80%. Right? I'm also taking into account the characteristics of the property and deriving value off of that. So, if my property's got 40% wetlands and I'm coping off a 10% wetlands property, I need to anticipate what that what that's going to look like on my deal. I can't mimic the pricing for that one. So, when we bring our deals to market, we've underwritten them conservatively and I start low. I don't start high. I come to sell. I'm I'm bringing you a great deal immediately. This is a theory, but again, we're trying to get eyeballs on these MLS platforms like Zillow, Red Fin, whatever. If your listing sucks out of the gate, I think they ding you forever on that listing. Even if you repric it, even if you add new photos, so much so that if we messed up our listing, we take it off the MLS and we relist it. And sure enough, when we list it, right, we get this momentum and it just starts booming. Within 48 hours. If we're not getting the engagement that we want, anyone know what engagement I want? Views and sales. Views and sales. Huh? 10%. 10% view to save ratio, that means my deal is priced right. And it depends on the market, but at the bare minimum 50 views a day. A good market might be 100 views a day. That means my my my property is visually compelling. So, that gets me the click. The save says I see value here. If I don't have that ratio, okay, something went wrong. And based off of the views of the saves, I know what I need to do next to fix on that property or that listing rather. Um, and so within 48 hours, we have the data that we need and we'll course correct right then and there. And so we're constantly stairstepping price and adjusting. If we again, if we made a big mistake, we remove the listing, put up a new listing, and we're off to the races. Questions on that?

Oh, one last thing, too. Any deal that I own free and clear, I have title on. I'm always offering owner finance on every deal unless it's a double close and I just float general terms. 20 like owner will it will carry a note for 20% down or whatever. I don't get super specific. Some of the MLS platforms don't like it and I actually want to keep it broad because you get the craziest offers from from buyers like I'll give you 75% down and 15% interest. I'm like, hell yeah. So, I try not to like put them in a box too quickly and I let and send it to them. Uh, and I love those deals. I can either sell that note if it's a deed to trust note. You can get 80% of that value if you collect a 20% down payment so long as it's in a good market. Contract for deed, good luck. You'll get like 40, 50 cents on the dollar. I don't really sell on contract for deed unless it's a small deal. Um, typically a 5 to 7 year term, 20 to 25% down, 12% interest is what I shoot for. You got to know the interest laws in the state you're working in. It is variable. It's not just one size fits all. How would you do? Why not? You could. This gets a little cumbersome. Usually on double closes, the deal I'm buying is like buy at 50, sell at whatever, 80, 85, 90. I mean, maybe someone gives me that an offer where the math works, but I don't really want to have to bring cash to close. And there's just usually not a deal that has the spread that that justifies it, you know? Um, it gets a little trickier like like making the math work on uh bigger cash flips, just bigger like mid-market deals, 25K to 250K, it gets harder to to get owner financing that's attractive. So, I I either will take a lower return if I can recoup capital quickly, get my basis back. 12 months is like the max I would ever take. But like if my return is compressed, as in I'm getting an owner finance offer and it's only a double my money situation, I need I want my basis back really quickly. Or if I'm getting like a triple or 4x, I'm willing to get my bases back slower, but you know what I mean? It's just hard to find those spreads on big cash flows. So it's got to be one of the two. It gets even harder to do that in double closes.

What's your typical bank? What? 5% 6%. 6%. Yeah. 100K or Yeah. If we get into the multi6 figure range, I try to price it like a house like 3 to 4%. That's usually like a quarter mill plus. Um, but there's some agents that are so good. I'll pay them 6% on a $300,000 property. You know, some of those relationships are more than like the money that you're going to pay them on that individual deal. We've been doing like 5 to 8% depending on the price. Yeah. 8% 40k. I feel like they're doing a lot of work for sure. And on some of those smaller deals, you know, 30k and below, we'll just pay them a flat 2k no matter what. No matter what. It sounds like questions on dispo, everyone good? Oh, you got questions. I'll go back here. I'll get back to you. Okay.

So, what I've never done a sale on owner financing. Um, but when I was looking at it, your list price, do you go up on your list price if the buyer comes in with owner financing, if it's a contract for deed? Yes, cuz I'm usually not charging interest on deed, a trust. No, you can, but I just give them that that price. Down payment plus interest 5 to seven years. Typically, rather if you keep the note or sell the note, doesn't matter. You have to keep the sell. And for note buyers, they they want to see those terms and it does depend on the quality of the borrower as well. So, there's variables that can affect what they'll pay you, but usually I don't want to go over seven and they want to see interest that's around 12, 11 to 12. Yeah. Always credit check. I don't I don't I don't want a credit check. No. For me, a down payment, if it's a good down payment, that's that's your credit check in my opinion. You know, that's good enough for me. And some people are buying on finance because their credit sucks. But maybe that doesn't mean you're a bad borrower today. Maybe you made mistakes when you were 18 and you got a predatory credit card while in college at [ __ ] 30% interest or something ridiculous like that. So, I don't know. Try not to prejudge on it too much. Questions? Yeah.

Earlier you said you um start low when you price. What percent of market value is that? Depends on the deal. It depends on the market. So, it's not just like a one-size-fits-all. I am critical in underwriting the flaws on a property. Oh, I'm on a class five road in New Hampshire that you need an ATV to get to. Okay, I'm that's a sizable discount. So, I'm looking at the full spectrum and I'm pricing that in. There's no magic math to that. You know what I mean? We make mistakes on it, but I'm conservative. Uh, and then when I look at comps, I'm assuming that those weren't other investors, so I probably have to be slightly better than those previous comps unless there's a ton of demand that isn't being filled by current supply. And that loops into the last point. I look at current supply because those are listings I'm competing with today for the same eyeballs. So, I also got to beat them. I got to be better in terms of my listing and my price. Yeah, because like in any given market, it's like how many buyers are there really for that 40 acre in Apache County right now? Not that many. So, I need to get those ones. They need to see my listing and they need to know that this is where the value is at.

Yeah. Note servicing. Do you charge note servicing? Do you service your own notes? Yeah. And what's your default rate? Yeah. So, we service our own notes. We use Geek Pay. Started with them a long time ago and I haven't got off them. If you're doing small volume owner financing, yeah, use a note servicing company. We'll pass off that charge uh to the borrower. We do charge a note fee. I think it's 10 bucks per note or something like that on Geek Pay. Default rate on a contract for deed is high. Depends on the price point, depends on the down payment. Like there are deals where we were collecting a dollar down. I was buck wild. And now I would charge a $2.49 document prep fee. So, we capture a little bit more. And there's deals we're collecting 500 down. It really tests the gamut. One to one correlation with the size of the down payment as a percentage to the list price and the default rate. Blended together. I think our first year default rate on this contract for a deep deal is about 25%. If they make it past year one, I don't know the math, but it's it's pretty steady. But I would say every month I have one or two defaults now. And some of those are like I just someone just default. This is crazy. This is it kind of breaks my heart. But this is a deed to trust deal. No, it's contract. Sorry. The contract for D deal. The person defaulted. It's like a 60 or $70,000 property. They defaulted. They had paid us 15 grand over like the last two years or something like that. And they just defaulted and then we listed the property. We just sold it. I think it was like 699. And you just hand it over like if it's dee of trust, right? Your first position. So, you then have to go through foreclosure. Yeah. So, yeah, I've never had to foreclose on a deed of a trust and I think that's because we're getting 20% down like religiously contract for a deed. I just send that default notice. We put 60 days that they can miss a payment, but I've worked with people for a year and a half trying to get them back on. I really try. It doesn't feel ethical just to be like, oh, 61 days of taking the property from you. Most of them never get caught up, though. And I just service my own. I think they just owe me the money. I just charge my money. I mean, I only have like five. Yeah, you know, whatever works, you know.

Well, but it sounds like at a larger portfolio, it's probably not. It gets messy. Okay. Yeah. What you need is I like the AC where it's like auto debits just easier for everyone involved and then if the payment fails, we get a notification in the platform and then we just reach out. So, who has pitched the idea that owner financing is passive income? That was the biggest farce in the land business, right? Nothing passive about it. You're getting a phone call on a Sunday, hey, how do I find my properties? Like, use the coordinates. What are coordinates? Uh, so yeah, there's a lot that goes into it. Uh, so I don't want to add more work to my plate by trying to manually track those questions. Impressive. Yeah. So, yeah, it's tough, man. Sometimes I can just pay them way too much. We try to discuss it on the front end. Some of them What was the question? So, he's saying on the owner finance side, selling through the MLS, how do you structure the commission to the agent? Unfortunately, there are many instances that I haven't been proactive. We haven't discussed it. I paid that 6% on the full amount. Sucks. You can structure it however you want. Some people won't buy it, but it's best to discuss that on the front end. And so, just, hey, we'll just give you a flat rate, just a flat whatever. And it's a win-win for them because we're going to expose ourselves to more buyers and seller faster. But some some people won't buy it and that's okay. If it's a small small dollar deal that we really think is going to be like, oh, this is positioned for owner financing, we'll just flat fee it and we'll just avoid the realtor. Uh, but a lot of, you know, what's interesting, a lot of our owner finance deals for our smaller properties come from our website, just direct to our website, which is really, really interesting. And, you know, that having a website doesn't matter that much in this business, but there is something to be said about being able to generate your own demand. And that is why Landio is such a powerhouse in this business that they spent such a long time building their brand and so they've got, you know, limitless demand essentially. They can sell a property through an Instagram reel in the same day. Who's that? Land who? Lando. L D I O. Lando. Yeah, they're interesting. Uh, they're out of Texas. I don't know the owners personally or anything like that, but what's cool is they built so much of their own demand, but they then launched a brokerage and I think they're across the entire US. They're taking on $20 million ranches because people say you can sell properties, but they started as land investors. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

What's the size of your total land? Yeah. Let me I don't even know the exact size. Let's count it off together. Okay. First, we got Newman. He's our COO. He started as like a $6 an hour VA from a Reddit thread. Uh, he started as a generalist VA just like what I teach inside of Leah. He's been with me for four years, I think, and he's just risen through the ranks. Second person is a guy named Aries. That's our CM question. Anybody that owns land, I'm No, we're maniacal about this stuff. We spend a disgusting amount of time on market selection. Insane amount of time. So, no, we are. And that's probably why our results are what they are. While we're doing a lot of outreach, it is very sniperesque. They're mainly counties. There are some targeted zip codes in there. We're cherrypicking. I'm not crazy with like motivation filters like oh the seller has to be out of county out of state. I don't I don't believe in that. And all the data that I've ran, you know what the the two greatest pre-qualification signals are for scrubbing sellers? Anyone? The type of length length of ownership. Anyone have a number? Five years. Yeah, five years. And it seems to get better the longer it is, but five years is where the vast majority of our deals happen. At least five years. Anyone know the second one? Age. That's it. So, I don't do it for every single list, but we've been playing with it. We'll use a premium skip trace inside of Land Insights. We'll get their age. When I look at all my deals from 2024, I think there's two or three people that were under the age of 50. Damn, that's an easy way to start scoring your leads. You know, get that age, you chop off 40% of the people on your list just like them. Now, I'm not doing it for all of this data, but it's something that I might play with. It's super effective, especially for a cold call.

One thing I've never heard you talk about is number of properties and as a predictive indicator of Yeah, it's not something I pay attention to to be honest. I don't I think there's a lot of opportunity there. You know, you can talk to Jerry. He's landed some insane portfolio deals and I have landed some insane portfolio deals as well, but I don't deliberately target them. My favorite seller to work with is someone that my husband passed away. I got this property. I don't know what to do with it. My grandparents gave me this property. I don't know what to do with it. That's my favorite seller. And I promise you, they don't own portfolios typically. Sometimes, but rarely. That's like the question I was kind of getting. I look at someone if you own 30 pieces of land. You know, it's worth not. Yeah. I No, I would not scrub them out. I would not scrub them out. And there's two reasons. One, people that own that much land probably acquired it a long time ago. And one of the things I think about as a as a predictive scoring system is their basis in the property. They probably have a low basis. You probably picked up that portfolio a long time ago. One of the things in the land in size comp tool, we show you on that gauge if the owner is going to make money on your offer. It's a really good predictor if they're going to sell to us. It's not a guarantee and there's many people that sell at a loss, but I like to be in that position. That would be an interesting lead score to run. The other thing though about portfolios is that that's hard to provide like that's hard for them to find the liquidity if they need it. So, when they need it, they really need it. You know what I mean? Like you're overleveraged or you're buying a new commercial property and you got 30 pieces of land that you need to sell. That's a serious situation. Who can solve that? Maybe Byron can, but a lot of other people can't. And so I think that net net, like if we look at the expected value on that, it's really high. Your response rate might suck, but given a long enough time horizon and sample size, you're probably very profitable on that. Jerry, what's your rorowass on portfolios? Good. It's like 10,000%. I think it's like 17,000. 17,000%. But your response rate is probably pretty damn low. Yeah, very low. Yeah. So, there's weird things in this business where like you think about expected value for a big enough sample size. You're like, "Oh, the math works." You know, I but like it's not one size fits all. If you're like, "Dude, I want a lean marketing budget." Yeah, they're probably harder deals to get and maybe some out 10 in one area and they own a couple stragglers somewhere else and they don't give a [ __ ].

Funny story about that. The first person I ever coached is a guy named Levi. He, this was like 2021, he found me on land.com, found my email, reached out to me. He's like, "Hey, I live in San Diego. I want to learn the land business." I'm like, "Okay, cool, man. I just coached him for free. We met up in person. We would do like a Google Meet trainings." And he got this lead that I had gotten. I had gotten the same lead multiple times. It was this chiropractor that lived in LA. He owned a big portfolio in Joshua Tree. And he would always reach out and he would always dick me around. He's like, "Oh, no." Like he wanted crazy prices. and he's like just like go through the portfolio and pick a property and make an offer on it. And I did it a few times. I'm like, "All right, this is just a waste." And then Levi generated that same lead. He was so methodical. He found this outlier. I think it was in 29 Palms, which is close to Joshua Tree. I think it was his own commercial. Maybe the seller didn't know. I don't know. He made an offer at 12 grand. The seller said yes. He sold it at like 120 grand or 140 grand like two weeks later. That's the lead I got multiple times that I passed on. So yeah, there's hidden value everywhere. But that's a great point, man. They always have outliers or often times they do.

Uh, when you're talking about your marketing spend and you hit on, you know, data usage and whatnot, what does that include for like that 10 days? I feel like between my, you know, mail insights like I'm spending that much and not coming close to the amount of leads you have. So, I think our uh Riolet said for launch control. I think our plan is either discounted or it's lower. We got grandfathered into to pricing because we've been with them for years. I could even get the number for you. I think it's 4,500 or 4,900 a month for that plan. Okay. We've gone very long. Sorry guys, we'll be here all day. Uh I I'll wrap up soon. Um yeah, it's it's not at 6K. It is discounted. Whatever. Two grand a month for the texturers. Both of them data is free and skip trace. Yeah. Yeah. Marketing stack. Now with the cold callers, that number is going to go up. A little more data, a little more skip tracing. And then we got the the cost of labor. And that's not including like your mail order. No. So, that number is not factored in mail. So, we don't have mail in that April and May sample size. We also don't have cold calling in that sample size. So, I know you showed up a little bit late. I don't know if I went over this while you were here, but I tore everything down to the studs. Did you hear me talk about that? Okay. Yeah. So, I at the middle of last year, I kind of just started scrapping everything in my business and reinvented it. And so, I just did one thing at a time. So, I started by scrapping my acquisition team, rebuilding it, scrapping all the different marketing channels, getting one in the right place. So, it was texting, then I added, now I'm adding cold calling. Got to get that perfected. Then, we're adding in mail. Because I was doing RVMs, we were doing texting, we were doing uh PPC, we were doing mail, and they were all like, nah. It worked. It's profitable, but not anywhere near what I knew it could be. So, I was like, it's just too hard to fix all of them at once. And I see a lot of land investors that do this. They haven't mastered one marketing channel, and they try to like launch multiple marketing channels. They all work. I think mail is awesome for new people when you don't have a team. I think once you have a team, texting is the best. It's just that simple. You can pick whatever you like. Like Cole's doing, cold calling, whatever. Doesn't affect me. You can choose what you want. Um, but just start with one master and then move on to the next. Questions? Is that it? All right, guys. Was that helpful? Yes. Sweet. Cool. All right, guys. Um, thank you. Thank you every [Applause]