Transcription
Venezuelan president Nicolás Maduro was abducted by the United States, accused of narcoterrorism. Shock waves rippled across Latin America.
Now, President Donald Trump has turned his fire on Colombia, accusing President Gustavo Petro of producing drugs and reviving 19th-century logic of influence under the so-called Monroe Doctrine. "Has cocaine. He has factories where he makes cocaine. And yeah, I think I stick by my first statement. He's making cocaine. They're sending it into the United States."
Donald Trump invited Gustavo Petro.
President Gustavo Petro, thank you so much for January decades. Capture Nicolás Maduro, Venezuela, depending on how the posture is treated, it can lead to violence. The entire society is polarized, even the forces that were popular under Chávez are polarized. If they don't achieve their own unity, they will stimulate rapid change, and that rapid change can bring much greater violence than what has been seen, following more the Colombian style of violence, and that would be a disaster. And to that extent, what I have proposed is a shared government through dialogue among all political forces in Venezuela and phases towards free elections, which in the end is what allows a society to decide. For better or worse, it can make mistakes, but it is fundamental that Venezuelan society decides as a whole. But today it is not possible because everything is paralyzed. The elections themselves can be the engine of violence. Therefore, a system of trust must be generated among the protagonists of Venezuelan society, its social forces, and based on Colombian experience, that worked well. It is the possibility of a shared government that allows building that trust. After the elections, but previously there must be a political agreement, and it is of Venezuelan identity. So, I even presented this to Trump, to Delsi, we have both spoken, haven't we? For different reasons. I spoke with the president of Brazil. I believe these contacts among everyone will intensify because obviously the principle of national sovereignty in Latin America has been challenged, and Latin America was founded on that principle, just like the United States, against kings, against emperors, and that implies respecting that principle, otherwise everything falls apart. There is a deep contradiction in the United States. There was also practically a social explosion for reasons of the activity called ICE now, that did not exist before, of persecution of Latin American migration, and it has led to the murder of people who are from the United States and a quite violent reaction, quite so, and that makes all of America convulse. Trump and American society today have a responsibility. Are we heading towards a total American conflict, or are we heading towards a possibility of an alliance, not imposed, but democratically constructed based on objectives? The first objective is national sovereignty, which clashes with the Monroe Doctrine, which has been re-legalized in the United States. The belief in a right over Latin America that does not exist. And second, and I expressed this directly to Trump as well, is that if relations continue to be based on oil and coal and hydrocarbons in general, there will be violence. That is what explains all the wars of the 21st century in the world, including the conflict in Venezuela, which is about oil.
For now, for now, let's say we speak by phone, not at length. What I felt is that obviously she is worried against it. There are also attacks and the issue of betrayal, etc. It is constructed as a narrative that divides the forces that were previously official, officialist. The opposition too, because a part of them was waiting for Mrs. Machado to quickly replace Maduro, and it turns out that is not the case. So there is a convulsion that must take a path towards not exploding violence in Venezuela and towards building more democracy in Venezuela and hopefully social justice. And that objective must be maintained, and only Venezuelans can achieve it. It is written in the United States' national security doctrine, which is a governmental decree, it has not been discussed by law, judges have not reviewed it, but that is the core of the problem, because if the principle of national sovereignty on which international law, the United Nations, etc., are based is destroyed, then barbarism is not only in Latin America. Barbarism would spread throughout the world. For multiple reasons, the possibility of war would be at the door. And you know what a world war means in times of climate change. It is like bringing together all the conditions of a perfect storm against the life of humanity itself, including American society. In this, both the right and liberalism, I don't say the Chinese left, must reflect, even talk among themselves, because straining what is to come can only lead to world conflagration and lost time, very lost time, which we do not have in relation to the decarbonization of the economy. And here they must take responsibility thinking about humanity and not about business. And this goes against the entire Monroe line, undoubtedly, and I proposed to Trump to remove the corollary, which is called that, the Trump corollary, which is the Monroe Doctrine, revived today as a norm, because it would remove a great burden from the danger that is being experienced. And this implies, as soon as there is a dialogue between Latin America, all its presidents, etc., their different visions, and the government of the United States to rebuild a different American pact.
Trump administration of the attacks in the Caribbean, of the deportations of migrants from the United States. Trump has been very hard, very critical of him. He has called you a trafficker now with him.
To speak on the phone, we did not discuss the proposed topics. He proposed a communication channel that did not exist, had never existed with the Trump administration, which is why the drug trafficker issue arises, because that information vacuum between the two governments was filled by different, unofficial communication, basically mediated by political ideology and by my opposition. The Colombian right, which is my opposition, has governed Colombia all the time, and that way of governing has led to violence and great social inequality in Colombia. Violence in Colombia is not the product of some groups wandering around. I spent 10 years of my life, I also told Trump that, showing how traditional Colombian political power was the best ally of drug trafficking in Colombia and that what they sought was first to try to win elections here, or if not, to unleash violence, to break relations between the United States and Colombia, from which only drug trafficking would benefit. Because I have taken care, despite the insults, the threats, etc., to maintain cooperation in drug trafficking between Colombia and the United States. I know what it means if that is broken. In Colombia, it means that the narcos return to political power. They have been there before, and each time they have been there, they have unleashed a genocide in Colombia. I cannot be so irresponsible. And I believe that Trump likewise noticed that they were telling him lies, because when you confront the data, you have it, well, this is the government that has persecuted drug trafficking the most in the history of Colombia and the world. The demand for cocaine in the world has grown, not because of the United States, in the United States it is stopped by fentanyl, something worse, much worse, 30 times more dangerous and definitely deadly. In other drugs, cannabis, what there was before, well, it didn't kill. It has already been legalized in a good part of the United States, here not even in Colombia. And people die today from cannabis trafficking, which is senseless, but the Colombian Congress did not approve its legalization, unlike New York and other cities. That keeps us as factors of violence. Now, in relation to the data on cocaine, it is easy to demonstrate by objectively and satellitally measuring the quantity of coca leaves, the quantity of hectares of coca leaf cultivation can be done easily. And what is resulting by the end of 2025 is that in Duque's government it doubled, 100% growth, and until the last month of 2025, my government only grew 6%. From 100% to 6%. I still have the part left, the difference is substantial, and any investigator, even police, should ask why. And there was even a drop that was witnessed in the first year of Duque and a complete explanation. That explanation is that every time there is a policy of voluntary crop substitution, illegal crops for legal ones, because the farmer wants it, we have success. The farmer becomes an ally, not an ally of the mafia, and with the farmer's help, we have the social force to actually destroy the hectares of coca leaf. That is my policy. If you combine it with repression on the drug trafficker, which is seizing cocaine, the farmer never has cocaine, he has coca leaf, which is different. And all these global merchants, capos. So, what you will have is a scissor strategy. You win over the farmer, you make peace with the farmer, he removes coca leaf crops, and you attack where the capital is. That is what I did, and the result is only 6% growth, I am waiting for the curve to start to go down. Voluntary crop substitution, alliance between the peasantry and my government, which is not an alliance with the narcos. That is what they sold to Trump in Miami, because they consider the peasants, they took them to prison, they killed them, and it turns out they do it because they have nothing else, they are the poorest regions of Colombia. If you give them opportunities, they stop cultivating. It's that simple. Opportunities, investments. The United States, let's say, has to bring a plan with us to further increase that program. Eradication bombing. Yes. And it will be a topic of dialogue, because there is a business with glyphosate. That is corruption, isn't it? Glyphosate, you know, produces harmful effects. It has been scientifically proven, and the Constitutional Court of Colombia prohibited it. The government had no alternative, that's why the crops shot up, but we learned along the way that voluntary substitution is more effective. You have a farmer who would like to grow coffee, his children wouldn't die, etc., cocoa, and when he sells, he has profitability. So, why grow coca leaf when it brings death and everything? The farmer knows it, and the danger to his children and to himself. Well, it is already proven by the data that every time we use voluntary substitution, it falls or stops, and they pressured him to continue with the peace process. He made the number of crops fall, and I stopped it. When you look at forced eradication, it shoots up 100% in Duque's government. He wanted to destroy the FARC peace process. That was his policy. It is the policy of the extreme right in Colombia. So they destroyed the voluntary substitution program. Santos and Ju, it doubled. Because it measures productivity, productivity in the areas is different. So, you can know the potential. So you have to multiply the coca leaf and the hectares by their productivity. If you take the highest and due to laziness or for another reason apply it to all areas, from the highest, you are overestimating the potential. It is not reality, it is potential. That is what they did in 2023. And in my opinion, a drug director here, very anti-Petro policy, promoted it, and did us enormous harm, because that's where the issue started. And I met with a doc, I told them, I met precisely in New York on the day of the famous demonstration, and I told them about the errors, train them in that because they do us immense harm. People here sacrificing themselves to stop consumption by Americans, Europeans, etc. And it turns out that it is the opposite. I did the seizure, objective, certified measure, that is not a potential, it is the largest seizure of cocaine in the history of the world, without killing anyone with missiles. And that was on ships, in submarines, in ports, on land. It was 1000 tons last year and a total of 2800 in our entire government. That had never existed. It is the largest seizure in history. Yes, that is my policy. If I start hitting the farmers, I send the farmers to the arms against the state. Colombian tradition. If I hit, it is where the real culpability lies, which is the greedy person who arms all the businesses, who has their capital abroad, but there is no multilateral instrument to locate capital in international banks. That is a great harm, but I reach them, most of those narcos were from the country, they were imprisoned in the United States, they made agreements with the United States. Those agreements were not to bring more cocaine to the United States, but the demand from Europe skyrocketed, the demand from Australia skyrocketed, even in Russia it has skyrocketed, it is lower elsewhere, but that increases violence in Latin America, because the mafia has become multinational. You are facing people who have greed in their hearts. How do you sell more cocaine? How do you sell more illicit gold? How do you cut down more Amazon rainforest to earn more money? You have to know that you are dealing with bandits, that it is not up to the government but to start negotiations, because being purely bandits, it is with the prosecutor's office, the justice organs. There can be legal benefits. That has been done in exchange for abandoning crime. That is the proposal that was made, and it continues. They do that in the United States all the time, every day. That is why the big Colombian narcos accept negotiation, they can live in the United States, they can surrender to their partners, etc. That is the negotiation. Or they can even go out into the world and what they set up is another mafia. If you look at the ELN and its history, it has both worlds. They call it hybrid, because of Colombian terminology, because it was insurgent and became a narco. It happened in their last negotiation process. They were in Cuba, there was political leadership. Santos wanted to advance it, his dream was total peace too. And Duque arrives, suspends it, leaves them there. They use the fact that the ELN's old leaders are still there for Trump to name, I don't know if Trump or Obama, I'm mistaken, because Obama participated in those negotiations too, the United States was there, it resulted with the FARC, it did not result with the ELN, they stayed there, and here some relatively young people already involved in the drug trade business. We became traffickers, meaning trading cocaine. They took control from the old ones, and today's ELN is greedy. It killed 200 peasants last year in a single operation, which is a crime against humanity. It involved, because I do believe they buy officials there, authorities here too, and it involved Venezuela in a problem. My last phone conversations with Maduro were about trying to coordinate a common operation between the Colombian army, the Venezuelan army, each defending its own sovereignty. The United States did not want to participate in its own way, nor did Macron. Routes to close off the north of La Guajira, the same with ships. Yes, because it is possible. We need to have anti-drones, we need to have ships closing routes. It is true, it is ineffective to shoot missiles at speedboats, because speedboats do not reach the United States, much less Europe. It is an escalation where in reality the ship that arrives or the submarine is a merchant ship. All groups except the ELN, which is very old, from '64, I was 4 years old, and has gone through all these phases, never wanted to make peace. In 1990, I participated in the M19, the majority of the insurgent guerrilla laid down their arms and moved towards the constituent assembly and became the majority by popular vote. But the ELN did not want to, the FARC did not want to. In '93, coca leaf cultivation began in Colombia, it is not traditional in Colombia. Only from '93, 2 years, 3 years after we had laid down our arms. That is why they cannot accuse us of that. In the fields, it was not there, it was merchants in the cities. Now you have the volume you already know from the data, 262,000 hectares in areas that were war zones, war zones from before, and in areas that were jungle, and the plant is jungle. Well, these new groups, except for the ELN, grew in Duque's government from what they call "trice the peace." They were real dissidents of very low rank, only one front, of the FARC, but immediately they already knew the drug business and got into it, because the FARC decided to finance it from '93. The ELN only does so very recently, and all of that has corroded those organizations, now they kill each other, etc. Many of the dead who had signed the peace are because of them, not because of the state, the vast majority. So, you have a creation of violence that is fueled by coca leaf cultivation.
A third world war is coming, I don't know when, but everything is heading that way if that happens. That is, the norms are international law, which is human civilization after killing each other with atomic bombs and world wars, etc., by tens of millions. It is an experience, I call it wisdom, it is the most that we have built by consensus among all, including the United States. Those norms enter, they weaken, they stop being accepted. There is a genocide in Gaza, there is a condemned person there called Netanyahu, an international arrest warrant, and the governments of the United States go to embrace him. Why didn't they take Netanyahu, but Maduro? Anyone asks themselves why Maduro is Latin American, why Mr. Netanyahu is a financial partner of the international world. So, world rules must be mandatory, they can be improved over time, and the United States can help improve them, but if what is imposed is to break them by brute force, then brute force comes. And brute force first is barbarism, it generates mechanisms of genocide, and then peoples defend themselves. So, that will happen. So that must be avoided.
President Gustavo Petro. Thank you. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure listening to you.