Transcription
How can somebody escape the victim mindset? Well, so if I was talking to a person like that, I would say, "First of all, I get it, 'cause I've been to that place myself. I mean, I've had moments when I didn't think life was worth living, and I imagined my own suicide. Never that I planned it or I was going to do it, but I kind of fantasized it, you know? I've been to those places, so I get it."
Secondly, I would say, "I feel that the world's against me." That's not a feeling, it's a belief. Okay? If you have that belief, it's because at some point you had that experience. But you're not having that experience right now. That experience was that of a child who was helpless and alone. So, what's showing up in your belief system is not your present situation, but your childhood emotional experience. And like I said before, in the present, we can heal, no matter what happened then, we can heal in the present. So, the first thing I would ask a person like that is, "Are you willing to consider that healing is possible for you, or have you totally given up?" By the way, a person who's totally given up wouldn't be telling you this, because when people talk this way, whether they know it or not, they're asking for help. If they weren't asking for help, they wouldn't say anything, they'd just slink off on their own and isolate themselves, as some people do. So, anybody who speaks the way that you just cited is already, whether they know it or not, they're looking for help. And if that's the case, then they can be helped. And so, that's the second point is, don't try and solve this on your own. We're human beings, we're creatures that evolved in connection and community. You're not alone with this. It may feel like you're alone, and you certainly might feel lonely, but you're not. In fact, alone, millions feel exactly the same way, and they're not crazy, and you're not crazy. Those beliefs and feelings are normal responses to abnormal circumstances. So, that's how I begin working with people, with a person with that mindset.
And I guess, to take this one step further, you know, I've heard you talk about, like, that one of the main problems with society today is that a lot of people who have mental health struggles, and they're struggling with situations like this where they feel stuck and they can't get out of their own way. At times, they feel like people are against them, they're dealing with trauma, and then they, you know, they might go see somebody who's not trained in trauma, they don't have the experience. Like, how can somebody begin to take that path and make sure that they're finding somebody that is, like, you know, trained in that, and then also that they're able to self-regulate themselves when needed?
Well, that's a huge question, because unfortunately, look, I've been through medical training, I'm a physician, and, uh, the average physician never hears any of the stuff I just talked about. The average psychiatrist doesn't get any training in trauma. Not in, they learned something with PTSD, which is a specific form of trauma, but they learn, they don't learn about the traumatic basis of depression and anxiety and ADHD, and they, they learn nothing about it. So, that it's very difficult to find good help within the medical system. Now, many therapists also don't get any such training. There's a lot of therapists that are designed only to change your beliefs and your behaviors, but not to address the fundamental reasons for those behaviors. So, a lot of psychologists trained in CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, or dialectical behavioral therapy, a lot of them are not really, and I know this, believe me, I know this, they just don't know much about, or anything about trauma. Then they can't help you with the fundamental wound that you're carrying. They can help you with the manifestation, and that's not, that's not useless, but they can't help you heal at your core.
So, then there are therapies that are deeper than that. There is, um, body-based therapies such as somatic experiencing, developed by my friend and teacher, Peter, Dr. Peter LaVine. There's sensory motor psychotherapy, developed by P. Ogden. There's EMDR, that works for some people. There's internal family systems, or IFS, developed by my friend and colleague, Dr. Richard Schwarz. This compassionate inquiry, which is based on my work, and I train therapists in that method. There are others, other names I could mention. There's Larry Heller, Lawrence Heller, in his work and his students. So, what you have to look for is somebody who's trauma-informed and is willing to work with you, not just on your behaviors, but on your core wounds, of which the behaviors are symptoms.
Yeah, thanks for bringing that up, because like my own experience, I mean, I've struggled off and on with my mental health over the years. I mean, I've told you a bit about my story in our last conversation, and, you know, when I would go, there wasn't like a lot of talk about my childhood. There was, it was just like, "All right, you're having some anxiety, cool. Like, here's a pill." And then I would just take it, and I would just think, "Okay, this is going to cure my anxiety." And then I would realize, like, it's not really, I'm still getting anxiety, I'm still struggling. Like, what's going on with this? And it wasn't until I understood, like, my past and my trauma and how that was all related, related to what I was experiencing in the present, that things were able to change.
And so, let's just say that, that somebody has now, they found somebody they're comfortable with, that's helping them heal their trauma and change their present and their current behaviors and patterns and that sort of thing. And then they go down weeks down the road, months down the road, and they're on the up and up. But get triggered or they experience a situation where they're like, "Oh my gosh, like, I thought I was getting better. Why is this coming up?" What's your advice to people who are dealing with triggers when they're on the road to, uh, recovery from trauma?
Well, there's two ways to ask that question that you just raised. "Why is this coming up?" Is that a question? What is it actually? What is this teaching me? No. When you say, "Why is this coming up?" like that, that's not a question. It's a statement. It's a statement that says, "This shouldn't be happening to me." Okay? Now, you ain't going to learn anything that way. But if you actually ask it, "Hmm, I wonder why this is coming up?" No, you can learn something. If I came to you and said, "Why are you doing this?" How would that feel to you?
I'd probably get defensive, and I would just feel like a little ashamed.
Exactly. But what if I said, "Hmm, I wonder why you're doing this?" It would force me to think a little bit.
And practice the pause. And say, "Well, I don't know."
It would force you, but at least it would invite you, right?
Right, right, right, right. Yeah.
Now, so that's the first point is, is how should we ask this question? It's a good question, but we have to ask it as a question, not as a statement of resentment or resistance. That's the first point. The second point is, use the word "trigger." Really great word. Now, if I showed you a rifle with a trigger, how big a part of the rifle is the trigger?
It's very small.
Very small. For that trigger to set off anything, that what? There has to be, there has to be a mechanism to deliver ammunition. There has to be ammunition. There has to be an explosive charge. When I get triggered, let's say you say something to me, and I get triggered. What you say, it was a very small, little thing. I'm the one who's got the explosive charge and the ammunition. You didn't cause me to do that. If I didn't have that ammunition and explosive charge, you could say whatever you want, and I'd just sit here saying, "Hmm, I wonder why he's saying that," you know? So, triggering is a great opportunity to learn. When you get triggered, you could either focus on resent and resist the trigger, or you could say, "Huh, what was I still carrying inside that I haven't looked at yet? That I haven't resolved yet?"
So, if you know, I used to tell the story, you know, being married to 50 years now, my wife and I. So, let's say 20 years ago, um, I might ask to sleep with her, and she would say no. You know, which nobody can ever believe that ever happened, but it did. Used to happen, you know? And how would I respond? I would respond by going into a rage and curling into a fetal position and not even wanting to live. Okay? Now, the trigger is the "no" that she said. The explosive is my belief that I'm being rejected and abandoned and not wanted, and that I'm an infant and helpless, which is what happened to me. Otherwise, if she says no, oh, I can get curious. "Are you tired? Or have I done something to turn you off? Or is there something we can talk about?" Or I can just be disappointed and let go of it and say, "Okay, well, thanks. You know, there'll be another day." So, how I respond is not dependent on the external event. It's dependent on what charge I'm carrying. So, triggers are wonderful times to learn about yourself. So, if you ask a question, not "Why did I react that way?" but "Huh, I wonder why I reacted that way?" Now, there's a whole lot of learning to be done. So, that's what I call compassionate curiosity, where we're actually curious about ourselves, but not in a self-judgmental way, but in a compassionate way. "Oh, this brought up the pain of rejection. Obviously, I'm still carrying that wound. Well, let's look at that, 'cause it's not happening in the present."
I'm glad you brought that up, and that we have to change the language and how we talk to ourselves during those moments, because for me personally, I'm extremely hard on myself. So, that like voice that you were saying, like, "You know, like, why is this happening? Or why is it doing this to me?" Like, that's something that I've said in my life very, very frequently, because of the fact that I'm really hard on myself. I sometimes, when something doesn't go my way, or when I get triggered or bothered by something, even though I've done a lot of work on myself, I'm, I'm so hard on myself because I'm like, "Gosh, like, I'm better than this. I know I should be doing better than this." So, that was really eye-opening for me, so thanks for sharing that.
Well, and, you know, that voice in your head that tells you all that stuff. In this book, I actually talk about getting into a relationship with that voice, because this is what I call a "stupid friend." You know, because at some point, that voice came along when you were quite small. See, if you were suffering as a kid, or things weren't going well, there's two assumptions the child could make unconsciously. What? One is, the world is dangerous, my parents don't know how to love me, value me, I can't trust anybody, I'm all alone, I'm going to suffer in this world. The other belief unconsciously is, there's something wrong with me, and maybe if I work hard enough, I can fix it. Now, which belief is more protective for the child, do you think?
The second one is more protective.
Exactly. So, it came along as kind of a friend to keep you going. It's a friend. I say it's a stupid friend. The reason I'm joking when I call it stupid, but the stupidity comes in 'cause it doesn't learn that you're no longer that child. It keeps giving you the same message. So, my suggestion, Doug, is next time you hear that voice, say hello to it and say, "Thank you." You know what? Because ask yourself, how old is that voice? I mean, what, how old were you when it first came along? I mean, I was young, because I remember there was this idea that I developed about myself from when I was a child that I wasn't good enough because I wasn't picked for sports teams, I got yelled at a lot.
Give me an age. Five, six, seven?
Yeah, I mean, I would say I was in elementary school.
Think about it. Let's call him a seven-year-old. This voice is a seven-year-old kid telling you a story. So, say, "Hi to it. Hello. I got it. You're still working to make me better in this world. But, you know what? Relax, kid. I can take care of it now." You know, it's just a little immature, little friend, that's all it is. It didn't come along to torment you. It came along to actually protect you, right?
And I think you're right. It's so important to have a conversation with that voice, and then also change the conversation with that. And then, along the lines of like, you know, childhood, one of the things that my audience wanted me to talk to you about more in-depth is, is like parenting. And that parents are having a hard time right now, I think, with their kids growing up in this world that is hard. You're easily distracted, you're easily addictive, you're easily on your screen all the time. Like, what advice do you have for parents who are, who are raising kids in this world today so that they can, you know, raise them to the best of their ability?
It's very difficult to raise kids these days because we're not living in the way that human beings evolved. Like, every animal evolves in a certain environment and context and is suited to that environment and context. If you want to understand elephants, don't study them in a zoo, study them out in, uh, in the forest or where they live, you know? And human beings, we no longer live in the environments even close to the image we evolved. Out there in nature, in small groups, connected to each other. Parenting kids was used to be a group activity. It happened in the tribe, in the clan. Parents had lots of support. Kids spent their whole day around their parents. It wasn't goodbye in the morning, hello in the evening. And most of our time is spent away from each other. That would never used to be the case, not through millions of years and hundreds of thousands of years. Now, we can't go back to that life, you know, nor would anybody want to necessarily. But we have to understand what we've lost.
So, first of all, you have to understand a few things. Understand a few things. The great Buddhist teacher, Thich Nhat Hanh, who died about a year ago, he said that the greatest gift a parent can give to their child is his or her own happiness. So, take care of your emotional states, because your kid is sensitive enough to be downloading your emotional states and making them their own. So, if you're stressed, unhappy, depressed, anxious, addicted, believe me, your kid is going to absorb all that and make it about themselves, that there's something wrong with them. So, take care of yourself. Live a life that you can live with. And if you get the first three years right, by the way, you've got it made. So, your kids are really small, consciously make the first three years as stress-free and as clear of psychological dysfunction as possible. That means work on your traumas, work on your relationship with your partner, your spouse. That's the first thing, beginning with pregnancy, by the way. Number one.
Number two, understand what the needs of children are. Needs of children are for unconditional loving acceptance in the context of a secure relationship, where the child doesn't have to work to make the relationship work. The acceptance and the regard should be unconditional. Allow the child to have all their emotions. What are the emotions are? Let the child have them. Understand them. Don't force them to suppress their emotions. I'm not saying be permissive with behaviors, I'm saying don't force the child to suppress their emotions. Don't tell them not to be angry. Don't tell them to cheer up when they're sad. Validate the anger, validate the sadness. These are essential brain circuits for such feelings. Nature gave them those for a reason. Allow the child to experience them. That way, they can stay connected to themselves.
Thirdly, there's a need for spontaneous free play out in nature. Get the hell away from these devices. Don't give a one-year-old an iPad or a cell phone. Get rid of the screens in your house. When your kids are small, have a screen in a locked room for yourself if you need one, but don't be phoning and texting and and emailing around your kids, 'cause the message they get is the device is more important than they are. Don't go for a walk with them and texting and looking at your cell at the same time. Don't give the kids these devices. They've been documented, shown to interfere with the healthy development of brain circuits. This has been shown on brain scans. So, if I was raising kids today, I wouldn't let them near a screen for years. On the other hand, I would encourage them to be outdoors, be with them, play with them in nature, spontaneous creative play. So, these are the essential needs of children. I talked about in this book. They're difficult to provide in this culture, 'cause if you do any of this stuff, you'll be an outlier. 'Cause all your friends and all your kids' friends' parents will be on their cell phones all the time. So, you have to make a decision not to buy into the false values of this, what I call this toxic culture. So, that's some basic advice. You know, easily said, hard to achieve, but at least these are the goals that we need to be striving for.
I wish I had known this stuff when my kids were small. That's