Elliot Page Teaches You How to Be a Man

Healthy masculinity could just mean a really good cry.

The office they're being gay. >> She's still going on about baboons. >> You know, you know, squeezing those >> Yeah. >> of their friends. Okay, like I was like, >> So, an interview just dropped with actor Elliot Page, formerly Ellen Page, and I wanted to do a reaction because it's about healthy masculinity. And I don't know about you, but I love taking man advice from a former woman because who doesn't love taking advice about being a man from a female. And I just got to say, this is not the channel for you if you care a lot about {quote} dead naming, pronouns. I'm of the opinion, before we get started, I don't care if you want to be transsexual, I don't care if you want to be gay. >> Why are you gay? >> Or even if you don't want to be and you are born that way, so to speak. I don't know if that's true, could be true. I don't care. Whatever you do in your life is fine with me. But what I do care about is when we're all forced to buy into a story that doesn't really add up. And I just don't think I can realistically say that I can buy him as a manly man that is one of the strongest men alive, apparently, when she or he doesn't look that way. And I want to tell you guys, I used to have a crush on Ellen Page back during the Juno days because I thought she was cute. She was clearly built very petite, very slender. I mean, I don't know if slender is the right word, but she was built like a small, cute little woman. And I had a crush. Honestly, just really sad to see what's happened. And I feel bad for her or him. I really do. And I I don't say this to make fun of her, but I don't think it's helping anyone to enable something that clearly just seems to be hurting someone. It would be one thing if I saw interviews and she seemed incredibly happy, then I would be like, "Okay, cool." But whenever I see interviews and it just seems like she's really not in a good mental health state and that's a problem. As someone that used to have a crush on her who used to care about her acting roles, I don't really care anymore. It's kind of troubling seeing interviews and and things like that where it seems like there's a problem and we're all just sort of supposed to enable the problem. I don't see that as helpful and I also don't see it as helpful to pretend that she's an expert on masculinity and men's issues when clearly she hasn't been a man for more than what? A couple years? It would be like you interviewed a two-year-old and asked, [crying] "What's it like to be a man?" And I'm sure liberals want to do that these days, but it doesn't make any sense. If you haven't been a man, why would you ever be interviewed on what it's like to be a man? Again, I have no issue with trans, but I do have an issue with people that are mentally not well and are being enabled in their mental decline. It's just sad, but um maybe I'm wrong. Let's watch the interview and figure out if I am wrong.

>> Welcome to It's Open with Ilana Glazer. I just came off such a tender and thoughtful conversation with my guest today, Elliot Page. I know Elliot as a friend through activism and when you get to know people through that human, you know, one-to-one lens, I forget that he's Elliot Page. He's been in some of the biggest movies of our generation for the past >> Well, let me just stop it there. He hasn't been in any of those big movies. Ellen Page was in those movies and ever since she transitioned into a man, she really hasn't been in any movie or TV show that has been any good in my opinion.

>> That I think is a hard part about being as famous as you are is it would be hard to commit to an electric scooter. >> [laughter] >> Like that's tough. I guess it would be. >> What the hell is this? What kind of opening question is that? Because you're famous, you can't have an electric scooter? >> That was so good. >> And I still have those skates. Awesome like Riedell skates that are really comfortable. >> Right off the bat here, I I don't buy it. Her voice, her look, it it just looks like she's a lesbian. It doesn't look like she's a man and I know it's hard to transition from a female to a man. Some people can pull it off. I don't think she can. And I don't say this to be mean. I don't think anyone is convinced. And look, when you look at this physique, does this look like the strongest man or one of the strongest men in the world? I I mean, how can how do you sell that to anyone? How is Hollywood really going to try to sell that to us? I mean, she's going to need giant CGI muscles. Even then would be ridiculous. It just doesn't make any sense.

>> How old are you? >> 39. >> Me too. 1987? >> Almost 40 years old and you have to start over as a new gender. That's But to be honest, I mean, she doesn't look old because she's always looked very young. But that's kind of weird. Like what 40-year-old man looks like this? >> Oh, nice. Nice. >> I'll be 41st. >> Year of the rabbit we are. Yeah. Bunnies. How do you feel about getting older? >> This interview is seems so awkward. >> Bro. >> I love how I feel and and kind of where I'm at now in my life. I think the only I I I'd maybe come to certain conclusions a little earlier [music] is the only thing that I sometimes go but >> I would not say that. If you came to those conclusions earlier, you probably wouldn't have become famous and rich. >> Um, about who you are, your identity, that stuff? >> Yeah. [music] >> Yeah. >> Like I wish I'd, you know, made come to certain conclusions and made certain changes in my life earlier. Um, I think that's the only >> You notice where she is not actually being specific, certain changes, certain conclusions. >> Cuz you seem like such a driven person who knows who you are. That's my impression of you. And also like, you know, you've made it through >> She seems like she knows who she is. Isn't the whole point that she didn't know who she was until like 2 days ago? >> And you know, my impression of you is health. That you've um, made >> My impression of you is health. My impression of you is health. Did she really say that? Let me just go back. >> And you know, my impression of you is health. That >> My impression of you is health. You are the poster child of good health. I don't understand who who talks like this to someone clearly unhealthy and who is not happy with themselves. This is like encouraging someone to be unhappy. It's toxic empathy or maybe that's not the right word, but it's toxic positivity perhaps where you're just encouraging people to lie to themselves and it's not actually helpful. I don't know. It's just weird to have to affirm something that isn't true.

>> I mean, I don't want to sound like be or come across as like over dramatic by any means, but I would I would say that I I don't know how healthily I, you know, I feel like I did sort of in some ways barely make it a bit. >> That's how That's how Jacob described it, too, by the skin of his teeth. He's >> At least she's honest that she's not the poster child for health as this interviewer kind of just tried to paint her as.

>> Yeah. I guess [clears throat] the reason that I see you as somebody who knows themselves is because you seem to really know your craft. You're like a good [ __ ] actor. So, there's some like sense of control and >> This doesn't make any sense. Okay, so because you're a good carpenter or because you're a good painter, that means you know yourself. No, it means you're good at your job. You're good at making houses. It doesn't mean you know yourself.

>> And I think because of the amount of privilege I've, you know, had, my the access to resources um in regards to the care I've received. >> I don't know. This just sounds like someone in a mental hospital talking to a doctor and it's just is that the poster child for mental health? She just seems very sad and depressed and this would be like This is how I imagine it would be like talking to a doctor. Just She doesn't seem happy.

>> And and thinking of, you know, individuals who are just not in that position and um Yeah, to me it's just it's it just feels like a very It feels very like natural and organic and just um a a part of what it means to to be alive. >> her eyes. It It seems like she's going to cry at any moment. And look, I'm not making fun of her. I just feel like this is someone that is going through something and we're just supposed to laugh at her. It's not that we want It's not that I want to. It's just sad.

>> You know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Your new doctor. >> say >> it's hard not to because Hollywood is so ridiculous and this sort of thing is so ridiculous that we're this interviewer is really the one we should be laughing at. She's ridiculous for playing into this and not saying, "You know what? Maybe you're just like mentally unhealthy and you need some help." But, no. We have to just go, "Congratulations." even though she's still like crying She looks like she's crying on the inside. We're still supposed to you know, pretend that she's happy when she's clearly not.

>> It was it's so funny and it's so just it has such a openness, expansiveness, warmth to it and I felt so affirmed by it. >> Mhm. >> And I felt silly for just assuming it. >> Who other than trans people use the phrase, "I feel so affirmed by it."? You don't need to feel affirmed by anything. You just know what you are. I don't know. I don't I've never in my life felt like I needed to be affirmed in terms of what I am. I mean, maybe who I am, but not in terms of gender, what sexuality I am. It's either I am this or I'm not. I don't need people to affirm. I just know because I was born like that. If you need people to constantly tell you that you're a man or that you're a woman, maybe you're not a man or maybe you're not a woman.

>> All of this to not be the truth which of course it may. >> And let me just say, there's some trans people that completely pass as whatever gender they're trying to be and I don't even like care or notice about it because I'm like, "Yeah, they're living exactly the way they should be in their mind." So, there are trans people that are completely justified in being trans. I will say that. But, I don't think that she is one of them and I keep saying she not because I'm trying to be mean, but because when I look at her, I don't see a man. I just I say whatever I think the person is and I think she's a woman. There's some trans people, I look at them and I say she or I say her or I say him because I just I look at them and they're like, oh, yeah, they pass as whatever gender they're trying to pass as. Ellen or Elliot Page doesn't.

>> sense that [music] animals are queer as [ __ ] >> And what we What What did you just say? Animals are queer as [ __ ] Let me just go back. >> Make sense that animals are queer as [ __ ] >> [sighs] >> I really don't think animals are confused about their gender and like think about it all day. Like they might a male dog might [ __ ] another male dog, but I don't think they're thinking about it. I don't think they care that much. I just think, oh, there's a hole, I'm going to [ __ ] it and it's like they move on. I don't think it's their identity because I think they would [ __ ] a female dog, too. I mean, they don't care. They're not smart. They're not thinking about it.

>> Uh-huh. And whether it's, you know, waterfowl or lions or uh frogs or sex-changing fish or >> She just said frogs. They're turning the freaking frogs gay. They're turning the freaking frogs gay according to Elliot Page. >> Wow. You know, bonobos or, you know, the list goes on and on. So, it's a nature documentary that ex >> What the hell is a bonobo? I'm going to I'm probably sounding like a dumbass, but I don't know what a bonobo is. I'll search it later. Whatever. >> whereas how you know, what we were taught in biology class in terms of you know, is gender and sex being this really binary thing in nature. Uh >> Well, it is binary. You're either a male or a female. Now, that doesn't mean that you have to like having sex with men or women. You can have sex with whoever you want. But when you're born, you're either a man or a female. And yeah, there's like one case in a billion or whatever where someone might be a hermaphrodite or something. But in general, you're a man or a woman and then you have sex with whoever you want based on your feelings.

>> Men being the dominant, violent, aggressive ones. Women being inferior and submissive and what have you and just none of it's literally none of it's true. It's It's It's a quaint little myth. >> Bro. >> Nature's so expansive. Uh >> It's a quaint little myth? What? Male and female is a quaint little myth? Is that what I'm hearing? What I I don't even want to go back and listen to it again. But like is she trying to say that for what we've known for thousands of years is just some quaint little myth? Do people really believe this? Is that just a myth? If someone's born a man with a penis, it's just a myth? They could be a woman really? It's a quaint little myth? I don't get this. I really [music] don't. And this is This sounds like a crazy person talking on the street. If Elliot Page was on the street homeless talking about this stuff, I would say she's talking crazy talk. But because she's rich and she used to be in a lot of good movies, people are taking this seriously. And I'm like this is just someone with mental health issues.

>> Um the gender binary little I mean it just doesn't exist. I mean gender >> It just doesn't exist, gender binary. Yes, it does. I'm sorry, but it does. >> Or sex, it's a spectrum. And this stuck >> No, she's confusing. Sex is not a myth. You're either a man or a woman, but you can have sex with whoever you want. Doesn't mean that you're magically a man or a woman after that, but it means no one is criminally stopping you. Like it's not a crime to have sex with a man or to have sex with a woman. If you want to go ahead, but it doesn't make you a special unicorn.

>> Do you remember he goes into all of this and uh I'm just really lucky to be a part of it. >> Uh [snorts] you mentioned in our pre-interview conversation that you read Sex at Dawn. >> Oh, yeah. That was like people that's like a secret, you know what I mean? Ethical [ __ ] and Sex at Dawn was my >> [laughter] >> I really I'm Sex at Dawn really blew my mind. >> Me, too. Um Sex at Dawn is this book that like the in, I guess, is uh about how monogamy is a construct, but then it breaks down how >> About how monogamy is a construct? Okay, let's just say that everything is a construct. Laws are a construct. That means we can just go around murdering everyone, right? No. Anything you could say that we built as a society is a construct. It doesn't mean that it's right or wrong. This is meaningless. Everything is a construct. To say that one particular thing is a construct, so what? Everything is. What That's not deep to say that it's a construct. Are you saying that monogamy is bad?

>> Most devices, structural devices in our society are a construct, like how food uh the way that >> Well, at least she just admitted it. >> food is distributed in our country mimics the way that religion is distributed, mimics the education system. Um I loved that book. It changed my life. I read it actually before >> But why again, why single out monogamy? Saying something is a construct it does not make it invalid, does not make it a bad thing. Give some critiques on it, and I'm sure the book does, but like come on. Are you really going to say just being a [ __ ] and sleeping around with a million people is better for your health than being loyal to one person? I don't believe in marriage anymore, but I don't really think that being a [ __ ] is any better than that.

>> I met David and I feel like it actually set me up to be open to the kind of partnership that I wanted that I wanted. >> That's awesome. When did you read it? >> Probably mid-20s. Yeah. >> Yeah, me too. >> Um and yeah, it had a really big impact on me and um and you know, it also just in terms of like feeling comfortably sexually and getting to feel like a sexual being and I >> Me, too. >> I'm just going to say that if that book is recommended by Elliot Page, I'm just going to go ahead and say that that book probably isn't very healthy to read. I don't think it's going to help your life. And I don't mean I again, I don't say any of this to be mean, but you got to look at the result and the result isn't really good. Yes, you could say she's successful, she's rich, but she was rich before this happened. She hasn't gotten magically better since she transitioned. All of her best work, just like the Matrix creators, all of their best work came when they were not transitioned. So, it's not really a selling point.

>> Loved knowing how closely related we are to bonobos. >> Me, too. >> Which is a huge part of, you know, Second Nature really goes into this and how there was almost a reluctance to even admit our closeness to bonobos cuz chimps represent a more I'd say favorable structure to those in power cuz they don't want >> A more favorable structure to those in power? Chimps? I I I I I don't I don't know if I agree with that. >> us to know that we're just as closely related to matriarchal society, you know? >> Um >> Yep. Yep. Yep. >> She heard the buzzword matriarchal and she's like, yes sister, preach it. Or I guess yes brother, preach it. I mean I I can't it seems like they're two they're two females talking like How does she How does this interviewer feel like she's talking to a man? It's just completely bonkers.

>> And they're [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And they're like for >> And for pleasure, for social bonding, for reconciliation. >> Yep. >> You know, for all kinds of reasons. >> That was the thing That was the thing in Sex at Dawn that hit me, too, that like tribes >> So you heard it here first, uh bonobos are [ __ ] so that means it's good to be trans, I guess. That's her point. I don't know. >> Those communities used to [ __ ] so much less binary, not your one partner [ __ ] openly and um whatever uh for like bonding between communities. I was like, yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. I remember another I mean that >> Okay, I mean they're trying to normalize being a [ __ ] basically, [ __ ] whoever you want all the time. I personally don't think that's healthy. Maybe some people are in healthy relationships where they can cheat all the time. I don't typically think that works out. Look at Destiny, you know, his wife didn't really work out. Good luck, I guess.

>> imagery stuck in my mind of tribes like having a woman having multiple male partners and you wouldn't even know who specifically child this was. >> Bro. >> What the [laughter] [ __ ] >> Is this a comedy? Are they literally advocating for women just sleeping around and having multiple male partners so that you don't know who the father is? Like on the Maury Povich show? You really think the people on Maury Povich are well-adjusted, healthy people? This is what they're advocating for? Turn on Maury Povich, turn on Jerry Springer. This is not normal behavior and that's why people watch Jerry Springer and Maury Povich because it's not normal.

>> Because the whole group was taking care of all the kids. >> Totally. >> It was It really blew my mind. I was so excited that you read it. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> How did it blow your mind? Is it really this amazing concept that people can be [ __ ] >> Cuz I felt the same thing. Like, if you when you know this stuff and you unlock that knowledge of like humanity, it makes you like feel closer to your own humanity and less ashamed of it. >> Totally. >> I wouldn't say being a [ __ ] is being closer to humanity. I think What are you even saying? Like, yeah, I think it's being closer to being an animal. Animals might [ __ ] around and do whatever they want, but it's not closer to being human. Humans are supposed to be above that. They're supposed to be non-animals that just do whatever they want and kill whoever they want. They look They talk about animals. Like, "Oh, animals [ __ ] whoever they want." Yeah, do you understand that animals also kill whoever they want? Do you want to incorporate that into humanity? Do you really want to do that? Because, yeah, animals do whatever they want. They also kill whoever they want and they don't have laws. I don't think it's something that we should be aspiring to be as you sit in this highly furnished, probably mansion that was built on society's {quote} "constructs" and not from the jungle with a bunch of chimpanzees and bonobos building this mansion. No, humanity built this. And you really want to go and just learn from bonobos? Okay, how about you learn from humanity? Humanity's actually doing pretty good. Maybe not anymore, but we used to be.

>> You know, I remember another part of Sex at Dawn was how uh shame around masturbation was a construct that like almost a PR campaign at a certain point. >> It's so silly. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> It's so boring. >> Yeah. >> You know, aren't we over it? >> I think we are. Just like we are. >> Yeah, we are over it. Nobody gives a [ __ ] if you masturbate, but if you're doing it all day, every day, it's probably a problem. Okay? You probably should get out of the house. Everything in moderation. And it's masturbation is not hurting anyone. You're not cheating on anyone. You know, do whatever you want in the privacy of your own home. Masturbation is okay. It's not cheating. It's not being a [ __ ]

>> I think we are and that's why this is >> I'm so over just like queerphobia, >> Yep. >> misogyny, transphobia, blaming everything on trans people. It's just like, aren't you seeing through this? You know? >> It seems so boring. >> I don't blame everything on trans people. I really don't care. I want them to be happy, but I don't think that you are happy. You're preaching to us as if you're happy, but you're not. You clearly seem like there's something wrong with you. And Hollywood trying to push you as this ultimate masculine figure when it's like, no, you're not. That's an issue. I'm not angry if you walk down the street. I wouldn't even care. I'd say, "Hello, how are you? Good weather, isn't it?" But when you're trying to preach at me, that's when I get kind of angry. Stop preaching at me. Stop telling me how to be a man when you're not a man. Now, if you want to believe you're a man, then whatever. I don't care, but don't preach to me about it.

>> transparent >> And even with the chimps, actually, when I'm thinking of the chimps, cuz I remember that one of the um biologists in the documentary talks about how like even if, you know, there is violence and there is fighting, they'll have like reconciliation sex, basically, to sort of like make, you know, and reconcile. And reconciliation is a big part of um you know, keeping the society going. Versus >> This whole interview has mostly been about how chimpanzees or bonobos or whatever are are great because they [ __ ] a lot. Is Is this real life? Is this a joke? Is this candid camera or [ __ ] am I being punked by Ashton Kutcher? What is happening here?

>> This constant war. >> Make up sex. >> Exactly. >> Oh, but I Here's one thing that I found really interesting in the Second Nature doc, which was this group of baboons who had discovered uh >> She's still going on about [ __ ] baboons, chimpanzees, bonobos. Does this seem like someone that's healthy that she's taking her life advice from chimpanzees? Jesus [ __ ] Christ, dude. This is not healthy.

>> Like dump, like a trash dump. And all the alpha males were you know, kind of taking it over, keeping everyone away, and you know, eating the food. And I mean, sadly, they got sick. They got like tuberculosis or something from the food and died. So, then this group of baboons was left with no alpha males. And they completely changed their societal structure and way of interacting, and it's now been decades, and it's stayed the same. And so, it was I find that aspect also like really fascinating. So, even in this you know, there's this this change, and then there's this like adaptive response that leaned towards something that was more cooperative and peaceful. >> Mhm, for everybody. >> based in dominance, and for everybody. It doesn't then make the alpha males go fight over food that they end up dying from, you know?

>> So, it seems like she's advocating for a very feminine point of view while she's trying to be a man. I don't get it. Why do you want to be a man if you like this feminine, let's everyone get along attitude? And I'm not saying that's wrong, but it's not a masculine thing. >> [laughter] >> That is That's a perfect microcosm. That is like they they are They're so >> alphas? For those dudes who are I'm alpha, really gay. >> Bro. >> They're cuddling and >> [gasps] >> Oh my god. Holy [ __ ] What the hell is this [ __ ] interview?

>> Hang you know, squeezing those genitals >> Yeah. Yeah. >> of their friends. >> They're [ __ ] animals. They just [ __ ] do whatever they want, dude. It's not that we should be learning animals are so great when while they kill whoever they want and [ __ ] do nothing all day except [ __ ] How are we supposed to take a lesson from that for [ __ ] sake?

>> And you know, there's the alphas, they're being gay. >> Elliot Page says alphas are being gay. That's your headline there. >> the aggressive patriarchy and homosexuality. And that feels like such an illusion, the the distancing of those things.

>> I will say like when I first started taking testosterone, I was like Oh, okay. Like I was like >> [laughter] >> What the hell was that? What the hell was that? That is the least manly thing I've ever seen. That was like holy [ __ ] Holy crap. >> But did I just start going out and grabbing people without consent, right? >> No. No, because you're a woman and you don't want to do that. You're you're you're you're not going to do that. Okay, let me go back.

>> And that feels like such an illusion, the the distancing of those things. >> I will say like when I first started taking testosterone, I was like Oh, okay. Like I was like >> [laughter] >> Whoa, dude. Tube your >> I'm a man now." >> But, did I just start going out and grabbing people without consent, right? No. So, I get It's so sick of like something like that being an excuse. That's not a fair excuse. And I'd say I've always >> No one is using that as an excuse unless they're trying to get off from a jail sentence or something and they're just bullshitting. But, no real person is using that as an excuse. No man thinks about, "Oh, wow. I have so much testosterone." We don't think about it. I mean, we might if we're trying to like [ __ ] gain testosterone for some health reason, but normal men don't think about it.

>> always been you know. >> down >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We down. >> We down. Yeah. >> Um but, this was a whole This was for me, you know, the first thing I I noticed starting to take T. >> Mhm. >> Um and but, yeah. Like I said, that being said, it didn't it didn't make me >> Right. >> all of a sudden >> Right. >> be out of control. You know.

>> I've been asking people about masculinity and femininity. We are seeing so much and I mean I mean our entire lives we've seen so much uh unhealthy masculinity, so much sickness. >> So, here we go. Elliot Page is going to talk bad about masculinity while she tries to be a man for no reason. Nobody was asking her to do that. So, if you hate men so much or you hate masculinity, why are you trying to be a part of it? But, here we go. Please, tell me what's wrong with me as a man because clearly you're the expert having been a man for 2 seconds.

>> in this world specifically through through the lens of men. And in your gender journey, which to me, as someone who knows you, but also as someone consuming you as a public figure, to me you >> As someone consuming you as a public figure, that just made me want to throw up. As someone consuming you as a public figure, god damn. >> appear healthy and continually finding more health and security. What does um what does it mean to you to hear me say healthy masculinity? >> Healthy masculinity to me is or even just something I've felt as trans like transitioning is like leaning away from whenever there is some sort of impulse or expectation you've put on yourself to like shut down or conform in a way that usually feels like this. Like I am closing off.

>> As a man, what the [ __ ] are you talking about? Does anyone is it is Does any guy watching this relate to what she's saying? >> I remember kind of being like, "Oh, Elliot, maybe you should, you know, talk with your hands a little less." Or >> Mhm. >> you know, maybe in pictures you're cuz all ever since transitioning, now I'm like >> You should talk with your hands a little less? Is that toxic masculinity to talk with your hands? We should be dainty little women?

>> John, I am smiling. I am smiling in those photos, whereas I used to be so I could barely look at a photo of myself. I was always like, you know, and now and I'll be taking say a dude's like, "Hey, are you are you Victor from Umbrella Academy?" You know, and we're doing a photo together. He's very >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Uh-huh. >> And like having that moment where I'm like, "Oh, should I also not? Like should I also be closed off?" >> like, "What the [ __ ] Elliot? What are you What are you talking about?" Like, "Oh, honey, you're the part of the problem." >> Mhm. >> So I think >> Oh, honey, you're part of the problem? What man says "Oh, honey" to themselves? I mean, if you're gay, maybe, but she's not trying to come across as gay. She's trying to say that she likes women as a man. Oh, honey. Oh, honey, you're so straight. Okay, sure.

>> I think it's to me healthy masculinity would be what you know what healthiness for anyone to just you know love themselves, people to care for themselves, ideally get rest when they can, you know, like just the practical basic drink water, like eat a banana, you know. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Drink water, eat a banana with rice, of course. Every man knows that. Being a man is all about drinking water and having bananas. We got to go back to the chimpanzee thing. We're all just a bunch of [ __ ] dirty apes, I guess. I don't really think that makes sense. As a man, I've never thought I need to drink water and have a banana because I if I don't, I'll be toxic.

>> Mhm. And also just you know, doing what you can to be in intentionally and mindfully not letting yourselves get like swayed or twisted by um the the the rules that I I feel like end up like leading to so many of the the problems that we see that are you know, do get inflicted by toxic masculinity. >> Please tell me what are the rules. I'm very curious to know what are these rules. >> Um violence and um abuse um just general cruelty >> Mhm. >> and >> All right, guys. So, drink some water, have some bananas, and uh you won't want to beat your wife anymore. You'll be a healthy man after you eat some goddamn bananas, you [ __ ] bonobo.

>> And uh yeah, I think it's just like healthy masculinity could just mean a really good cry. >> A really good cry. Healthy masculinity is a really good cry. You're describing what it's like to be a woman. What are you What is this? I'm at a loss for words. I wish I could give you commentary about this, but being a healthy man is having a good cry. You're just describing being feminine. And there's nothing wrong with some feminine qualities. Every man should be a little bit feminine at times. You know, if your father dies, your mother dies, you want to cry about it, but you're not describing what it's like to be a man. You're describing what it's like to be more feminine.

>> I just want to make sure I'm always like leaning away from that pull to to shut off emotionally. >> I'm hearing like an openness. >> Yeah. >> Practicing opening. >> Yeah. >> Cuz it's so true like a closed off that and like >> And it happened and the closed off could lead to just impatience. It could lead to whatever it is. I'm trying so much to just be like when that happens, it's like Elliot, shoulders back, take a few breaths. It really makes a difference.

>> But when we are organized through this such a strict rigid system, the pressure to conform, we don't realize how that pressure to conform is suppressing our health, restricting our nervous system. This is kind of what I was like thinking about about being in love in the >> It's restricting our nervous system? Is this Is this based on medical data? Did you do any studies about this? That it's restricting our nervous system? I'd like to see some medical data, please.

>> The relaxation and my my journey with gender and sexuality has like opened up so much since becoming a parent. The physical experience of of making a person and then getting that person out of my >> [laughter] >> body. Like that has been a huge touchstone for me for opening up my own pressure to conform. Like it was in my pregnancy that I realized I identify as non-binary as a non-binary woman. In >> Of course, because there's nothing more non-binary than being pregnant. Being pregnant means you're non-binary. Sure. I I don't have I don't understand how that works. Where the most straight thing, the most binary thing you could possibly be doing, which is being pregnant, suddenly awakened that you were non-binary? How does that make any sense? Why would that ever be the case?

>> pregnancy And that was when my sex like opened up and actually I was able to finally take in the relax and the surrendering to my partner that I I didn't realize I didn't even know how tightly I was holding on to it. But it is that pressure to conform that restricts us, that we don't even know we're being held so tightly by. And it's it's painful for everybody. It's It's so it's so it's cruel. You saying cruelty as related to the patriarchy, it's unfort- >> I think cruelty is playing into people's mental illness and telling them that they're completely justified in being mentally ill when they actually just need help. I don't I don't think that Elliot Page is happy. I think anyone with a functioning brain can see that she's hurting. And I think it's cruel to play into it and say, "Oh, you're totally the poster child for happiness and health." She literally just said she said this at the beginning of the interview, "You are the poster child for health." Basically, that's what she said. And it's not true. And she Elliot even said that's Well, I don't really think that's true. Like So, it's like they're going above and beyond what Elliot even wants to hear.

>> Absolutely true. You know, the trans experience of finding your comfort in your body is particularly visible and yours as a person who's been famous for so long is particularly pronounced. But, this is actually uh emblematic of how everybody feels in this society, wrong in their bodies. I the as women >> Not everybody feels wrong in their bodies. This is emblematic as as everyone feels. Did you just say that? Let me go back. >> This is actually uh emblematic of how everybody feels in this society, wrong >> Everybody feels wrong in their body in this society. If that were the case, wouldn't that be a gigantic problem? But, it's not the case. Only like a very small percentage of people feel wrong in their bodies. And it's not normal to feel that way. It's a huge problem. It's a mental health issue, I think. If you feel wrong in your I've never felt wrong in my body. It would be abnormal.

>> wrong in their bodies. I the as women being told we're too fat, we're too thin, not curvy enough, too curvy. Men Cis men are taking T. Cis men take T and then are uh loudly transphobic, you know, podcasters, whatever. And we're missing this >> So, I guess only women Or she Is she saying that cis men are or {quote} unquote normal or straight men, they're the only ones that don't have this problem? Okay. How How are we Are we supposed to feel bad for feeling okay in our bodies? Stop blaming me for being normal. You have a problem, go get help. Don't blame me for not having the problem.

>> We're missing this opportunity for the trans experience to be this like just uh particularly pronounced and accessible example of finding your true self. One thing I feel really >> That was just a bunch of word salad. So, we should all look up to trans people and just What are you saying? I don't need to look at them because I am already okay with my body and I'm already okay with my sexuality. I don't need to look at anyone else to validate that. You do because you have a problem, but I don't.

>> fortunate about about like you know getting nominated for an Oscar when I was 20 or whatever. And having that happen when I was so young and in that period feeling the worst. >> Mhm. >> Like absolutely just >> Look at her face. It's so performative. Like what the [ __ ] is this? Like she looks like a toddler. >> Mhm. >> not okay in those in those years following and to learn that lesson so young like to go like I actually don't care that's not what I care about. And something's not okay here and like to be in a place now where I can like reflect on that and >> Yeah, but how does this have anything to do with your job? Like are you complaining that you got nominated for an Oscar? Like oh boohoo, I got nominated for an Oscar and made millions of dollars. How does this have anything to do with your job? Just [ __ ] deal with your personal issues at home and leave it at that.

>> Gosh, when you do get like feel like liberated from that and that shame that you've been carrying like that is what I would wish for everybody. For everybody. And I do think that's what trans and gender non-conforming people can can offer. And I And of course they people in power, what have you, these like, you know, white supremacist patriarchal structures don't want people to feel liberated. >> Yeah. >> And feel that sense of power and feel that sense of possibility. Um yeah, nor do they want to lose a societal structure that, you know, keeps so many people oppressed and resources extracted and everything that it leads to.

>> That is so brilliant. Okay, my last question is you were You started working at a young age. You had talent plus drive plus the skill set to apply that talent and drive, keep yourself as safe as you possibly could, and make it through to this healthy state where you are more and more and more yourself. >> This is not what a healthy state looks like. She didn't make it through. She's still going through something. And you're not helping by enabling her. I want the best for Elliot Page. I think she's very unhealthy. And I know that I'm mixing Ellen and Elliot and the pronouns and whatever because I I mean, it's not that I want to call her her or she. It's just that I can't look at her as a man she cuz she just isn't one [music] and she doesn't pass as one. It would be one thing if she was like the most manly man that I've ever seen and then I would be like, yeah, maybe that man has a vagina, but man, she really looks like a man. I just don't get that with her. She just doesn't pass. And And so, if someone doesn't pass, I have to like force myself to call her a he, and my brain just doesn't want to do that because it's a lying. And I'm not a liar. That's one of the reasons I hate job interviews and things like that. It's like, I don't want to lie about anything. And so, yeah, I'm not trying to misgender or whatever. It's just impossible for my brain to say, oh, this is a man even though it's a woman. I just can't do it unless you pass. If you pass, I don't have to think about it. If you pass as a man, I will call you he because my brain will just subconsciously do it. But if you don't pass, I can't do it cuz I can't lie to myself, and I can't lie to you. It's just cruel. It is cruel to lie, and I think this interviewer was actually more cruel than I am. I don't think I'm cruel at all. I think the interviewer was cruel to play into the delusion. And I don't want to like join in and post memes about her and all this, but it's it's funny. It really is funny, and I don't want it to be funny cuz I used to have a crush on Ellen Page. I used to like her, you know, decades ago. Not recently, since like Juno. It's just sad. It is sad what she has become. And I hope she gets the help she needs, but she's definitely not going to get it in Hollywood. Hollywood is not going to give her any help. They're just going to make it worse and worse and worse and play into her delusions. Just like Christopher Nolan making her apparently like one of the strongest men in the world. I'm sorry, but no amount of CGI is going to make that believable. She looks like one of the weakest men in the world. Like if you had to cast the weakest man in the world, you would cast Elliot Page or Elliot Page. That's what you would do. You would cast her as the weakest man in the world. That is what you would do. It's not the opposite. And to say otherwise, you're lying to yourself. You're lying to everyone. Anyway, guys, if you enjoyed this video, leave a like, comment, and subscribe. Thank you.