Seeing Through All The BS In The Ball Python Game | NBB The Recap Live

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Trap Talk Reptile Network. The coolest reptile network in the world. Episode 675. The recap. New breed on the block episode. Jacob. Civil Serpents in the building. Long, long friend of mine, um, since coming into the hobby. But listen, you guys are in for a treat. We're going to catch up. So much to discuss ball python, uh, topic-wise with, uh, Jacob. Uh, this is your first time tapping in. Uh, welcome. Uh, do me a favor, hit that like button, and also if you hit that subscribe button, hit that notification bell, select all, you'll be reminded every episode released out of the network seven days a week. Big E, Top G, Bill Ferino Reptiles. What's good?

>> Yo, yo, yo.

>> I feel like I feel like the way I drop that name every Monday really determines like the tone of the episode. That's why I don't think I ever say it week. I don't think I ever say I don't think I ever come in week when I when I when I drop you in. Bro, what's good?

>> No, you're you're always super energetic. What's up, everybody? Let's [ __ ] go.

>> I'm excited. No, you don't have to do that. You're What's good, though, bro? Hey, listen. Happy Monday. Uh, what a way to start off the week. How was your weekend?

>> It was great. Got a bunch done.

>> Update us with some projects that you're doing.

>> Well, um, I'm a very proud dad. My my first >> uh, my first daughter left, you know, my first kid left the house.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, I'm very proud, but at the same time, I have to adjust and, you know, to the facts of life. While I'm super proud, I'm also like, "Oh my god, she's not here any not here anymore." Uh, but aside from that, I get to expand on another reptile room.

>> Yeah. And this room is for the babies, right? Or what? Remind me what for.

>> Yeah, it's going to be for all babies.

>> Nice.

>> Whether that be ball pythons, creos, or Mexican black kings. And uh, it's going to be the main adult Creo room as well.

>> So that's big.

>> Yeah, they're going in 8 by two by 18s. And uh, I'm really excited about this.

>> I would I would legit kill for a baby room. Like if I could like soon as things are born, get them out of this room and raise them up in a different room, that would be so iconic. I feel like

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Goal of mine. So that's cool that you got to do that.

>> Super super happy.

>> Bittersweet, right? Like Yeah. Damn. There goes your daughter living her life now. And here comes a new baby room.

>> Yeah. Yeah. She'll be eating dinner here once a week with her hus with her fiance. And we'll probably be going there once a week, too. So, you know how it is.

>> Yes, man. Well, listen, congrats um on next chapters of your life. Uh, I know your little break of not vending coming to an end. You're you're you're about to hit the [ __ ] the grind on shows again here real soon.

>> No.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I start next week in Bradenon and uh, then after that I think in September I have I might have four straight shows if I remember correctly and but but one of them is in Pemrook Pines which is my home show. So that's that's I really look forward to that one.

>> So what what number clutch you on right now? You you're in the 40s yet?

>> 40. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Here we go. Looking good, huh?

>> Yeah, it's it's looking like 62.

>> Yeah, buddy.

>> Beautiful, man. Listen, excited for tonight's guest. Long, long friend of mine and and you obviously you know Jacob. Uh, cool thing is you you know it was a treat having you at Trapfest obviously, but Jacob pulled up to Trapfest this year. First time he's pulled up in like at least a couple years. Um, so, you know, he's a real one, man. We definitely got a real one on tonight's show because definitely speaks from the heart, but also like he's not an idiot. Like Jacob sees what's going on. He's he's usually in the background, right? But he's tapped into what's happening for the most part everywhere. Um, I want to know what you think about tonight's guest and what we're in for tonight with Jacob.

>> Uh, honestly, me and Jacob didn't click in the beginning, but meeting him at Trapfest and getting to know him over the year or over a year and a half, uh, I like Jacob a lot.

>> He's honest.

>> Uh, straightforward and that's what I like in people, as you know. That's why me and you clicked.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh, became, you know, family pretty much. Uh, I like people that tell the truth and are looking um, say it as it is and are looking to save people from [ __ ].

>> Yeah. I listen, one of the things we know that doesn't happen nowadays is loyalty. Like you know, and I've seen firsthand like even with Here's the thing with Jacob. I'll make this real quick, but Jacob was one of my very first Trap Talk supporters, Patreon members. Um, I went through something in life where, you know, I did I did things where I pushed certain people away and it was unfortunate, but he's one of them, you know, but even when when everything went down with, you know, those guys trying to cancel me, like he was one of the ones sticking his neck out for me and just by him sticking his neck out for me, people assume him and I were all buddy buddy and [ __ ] close and we weren't even speaking to each other, but that just shows you like how he he refuses to let [ __ ] just [ __ ] be spewed out into the hobby. If something isn't right, Jacob would be like, "Nah, sorry." That and just like you, dude. Like, we need more people who if they see that two things don't [ __ ] look right, like two hot dogs in one bun. Whoa. You know what I mean? Like, can we talk about that that that doesn't look right and we should address it? That's all I'm trying to say here. You know, if something doesn't add up, why not address it? So,

>> Yeah.

>> We're not not only that, there's a ton of [ __ ] that hasn't been addressed.

>> Yes.

>> And many, you know, across, you know, our our hobby. I mean, like,

>> Let's address this stuff and move on and and and learn from it.

>> Yeah. Got to tell you, Monday night's been on a roll. I don't know if it's ever since we went to the recap phase of things, but I man, this is exciting. So, we're we're all in for a treat. And I just want to say shout out to everyone who's tapped in tonight. Just to remind you again, Trap Talk Reptile Network's the only network giving you a new episode every day of the week, Monday through Sunday. Okay? There's actually a new segment coming to the weekly lineup on Fridays. And I'm not going to say much yet, but it's all getting worked out, lined up, and man, you guys are in for a treat. I mean, I'm saying you only content you find here is where you're at. So, thank you so much. Trap Talk Reptile Network is also um on all major audio platforms. There's Apple Podcast, Spotify, Buzzrout. So, wherever you listen to any of these episodes, thank you so much. Appreciate the love and support. If you want to support uh this further than watching, then make sure you just come join the Trap Talk Patreon family. Do not hesitate. Click the very first link in the description below. As soon as you join the Trap Talk Patreon family, get connected to a Discord and there's an amazing Instagram group chat that's popping 24/7. Trappers from all over the world, brand new trap merch uh to give to all new Patreon members as well. And you get access to my green tree python weight list and other really cool uh projects that I have going off. I just want to say shout out to tonight's sponsor, RGI. If you got a ball python shed, make sure you turn it into the best doing it. That's Dr. Ben and Sean over at RGI. Go to rare genetic.com um to place your order and take advantage, man. There's all the awesome things happening over there at RGI and even more to come. So, I would also subscribe to their YouTube channel. Stay tapped in. Um, they drop a video every Wednesday. Thank you so much, Dr. Ben and Sean over at RGI. Also, tonight's episode's brought to you by Prague Morris, my favorite breeders out of Europe right here. These two are killing it, man. When it comes to puzzle, clown, hypo, all that stuff, man. at top tier front of the line ball python projects coming out of Progressors. Go to progorphs.com, check out all their projects firsthand yourself and just simply follow them on Instagram. And they also put out a YouTube video uh with one of their new projects that they uh that they just hit on. So check it out. Frog morphs on YouTube as well. Also, tonight's episode is brought to you by Clutch, the number one ball python organization app in the game. I am now convinced after this year, I'm going to be putting all my ball python stuff on the clutch. Uh, there was just too many situations this year where I just was not writing stuff down uh just because I got a lot going on and I'm tired of not being organized and I'm tired of telling all you guys how to be organized and not doing it myself. So, I am making the switch for sure by the end of this year. Um, putting all my ball python stuff. It's not a lot. So, that's why I feel like I should do it also. But listen, listen, if you're building stuff, man, do it when you can. as far as not doing it later when it's all already in your collection, man. It's best it's better to start off organized uh than not organized at all. So, thank you so much, Clutch, and the entire team over at Clutch. And uh, yeah, big dog, Big E, you ready to ready for this episode? You ready to drop Jacob in or what?

>> Yo, speaking of, let me say something about Clutch really quick.

>> Please.

>> I [ __ ] love it.

>> Yeah, I was gonna ask you. I messaged uh I messaged Justin this week and I was like, "Man, I [ __ ] love putting new hold back holdback animals into this system. Uh, it feels [ __ ] amazing. I love it." So,

>> All right. Listen, can we bring Jacob on now or anything else you want?

>> Let's go. It's game time. Do what you got to do to get your mind right. Okay. Get that mind right for sure because if not, we're going to get it right for you 100%. Also, do what you got to do to stay hydrated. Episode 675. Damn, we're just moving, aren't we? Civil Serpents, the recap. New Brion on the Black episode coming at you right now. Let's go.

>> Good.

>> You ready for do more in the future? Trap Talk podcasters.

>> Yes.

>> Only only Trap Talk. Exclusive.

>> Exclusive only. So stop calling us or not. I'm hot from the hop to the spot. Get the club the pop when I come up the spot. Get the club when I come up the spot. Get the club. When I come up the spot, get the club when I come up. Everybody, we do it. Everybody, we do it. Do it. Do it. Do it spot. Get the club when I come up with the spot. Get the club when I come up. Spot the spot. Get the And we're live. Episode 675, the return. Jacob, he's here.

>> What's up, fellas?

>> Welcome back.

>> DJ E. What's going on?

>> Good. What's up, Emilio? You all right? You look like you're concerned. Not here. Can't hear anything.

>> Can't hear me, dude.

>> He looked like [ __ ] like scared like

>> Yeah. Exit out. Okay. God. Well,

>> He just got done saying like

>> He just got done saying like how like, "Yeah, I love Jay. You know, I'm cool with the guy now." Blah, blah, blah. And then he comes on. He's like,

>> He's coming back. What's good, bro? Welcome, man. How are you?

>> Good, man. Good. How you doing?

>> I'm excited, bro. Happy to happy that you're here. Here. Here. He's back. Hold on one second. All right. Here we go. Biggie, you here?

>> Been a while that that [ __ ] don't happen. You know, ever since you [ __ ] with those AirPods, I told you

>> They're off, man.

>> I don't know, man. But listen. All right. Okay. Big E, what's good? You're welcome. You good now?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's up? What's up?

>> What's up,

>> Dude? Jacob, thank you for being here. And like I said, man, [ __ ] What is it? Like I always like to say in the story when we met at the Delmare Reptile Show, right? It was me, Matt Summers, and you you linked up with me there for the very first time, wasn't that right?

>> Yeah, it was like uh the first show like in the middle of COVID.

>> Yeah. So,

>> Because everyone out everyone else canceled and that was like the first venue to say, "Hey, we're gonna

>> Yeah, it was

>> Show happened.

>> Summer 2020.

>> Yeah.

>> Damn. I just barely barely been in, man.

>> Yeah. And it's crazy like, you know, I don't know. It in a sense, five years doesn't seem that long, but man, it seems like a lot's happened since then. Like I mean obviously not only with yourself but like think about the hobby where things are now shifted towards and I know like I said bro I mean remember my nickname for you back in the day was the professor because you know you [ __ ] had this eye for ID and [ __ ] and you were always right because obviously I would ask you Justin Miguel and like I felt like you were right more than they were sometimes. I'm not joking. Like that's how like I felt like you're on point with your stuff but also like the way the market was working and flowing. like I feel like you always paid attention to that as well. And let's just get right into where you feel like things are at right now and and and what your overall assessment is being in the hobby for as long as you've been and where you're at currently. Let's let's just get into current sh current stuff.

>> Well, first off, I'm I'm lucky to have to have gotten a hold of Sebastian from Showcase.

>> Yeah.

>> I I hit up like a couple breeders that I was interested in some big packages. Nobody responded, but but Sebastian responded instantly and said, "Hey, let's have a phone call." And this was like months before I had even was going to be able to buy anything.

>> Yeah.

>> And but but he I mean he set me straight. So yeah, I mean I I've been fortunate with that. Um, me personally, I I was on a even after all that great, you know, that great uh, you know, mentorship,

>> Right?

>> I still found ways to [ __ ] it all up. So I ended up with a lot of projects. You know, you you guys know when you first get in,

>> Your eye is is your your biggest enemy because you see, you buy. I mean, it's and it's almost like you don't ever you don't even think about it long term. You just think about it like with the mail that you have right now. Oh, I could do this, I could do that. So, I last two years have been has been all about cleaning that mess up. So, I went from like having like 20s clutches. I think the last 2022 I had like I want to say 20, but maybe not. maybe just a little bit below that. But I mean, I'm down to like eight clutches a year, 10, 11. You know, I'm pairing like 20 girls at a time. Uh, I I slimmed way down. I probably only have I have less than 100 ball pythons now, which is pretty crazy because I used to have more than double that.

>> Was that just because of like life things happening or is that because you just knew you had stuff you didn't want to proceed with?

>> It was a little bit of both. It was it was more like kind of coming to a realization like coming down off that

>> That first first couple year high of like just

>> The the initial excitement to where you start actually thinking about what this is going to look like in five years and start actually being an adult about it. And uh, yeah, it just it just came down to realizing like some of these projects I have are going to take a lot of holdbacks and I can't be in seven, eight projects. It's just not feasible. But um, I kind of restructured everything too. Like I pretty much have my my collection is pretty much structured to the point where like any any female that I have can go to any of my projects.

>> Yeah.

>> Because I basically have like a clown hypo DG thing going on

>> And then I have an exantic side to that and I have a monarch side to that and recently added paint to my collection.

>> That's something I'm building up that's going to get going. Then I think that uh I think that something can be worked, you know, I think paint can be thrown into all three of those. And uh, so it's it's kind of a luxury to have a collection like that because I could put a female to, you know, a monarch head clown one year and then pair her off to like, you know, DG clown or hypo or or throw it into an exantic DG or something, you know? So it's I love that flexibility.

>> A lot of a lot of people have these really tight projects where it's kind of like they're here, they're there. I mean, my my females, they get around.

>> All right, I want to talk to you guys about this because I'm realizing that this year, like, first and foremost, had some amazing I mean, if you follow my work with ball pythons over the years, Jacob, I've hit some cool [ __ ] I I've even hit a couple cool stuff maybe this year, but completely struck out on [ __ ] clown hypo. And I had like raised up females there the last three, four years to get to this point and had I think four of those females paired up. Only two of them gave me clutches. I think a total of 13 eggs between the two and struck out completely on that. And I'm thinking like man like once you really get to this level of double triple recessives and you have like super gravel and like [ __ ] that you want in that bro it's not easy hitting this [ __ ] at all. like bro at all like unless unless you got that visualto visual you know odds happening but but that's in a sense like I like working with heads but even when you [ __ ] invest into [ __ ] and you raise it for years dude you're no guarantee you're going to hit it still you know and and what's crazy is I'm realizing like when you this is why I understand like Justin hits [ __ ] because he has like four five six like chances with clutches of hitting that it's not just him getting luck all from one clutch clutch. No, dude. It's all these clutches that he's hatching out. And I'm like, dude, I'm like, it's fun to say, "Oh, I'm into this project, but are you really into that project?" Like, are you really like Like, are you sure you're going to hit it in three years, or you [ __ ] just shoot for the moon? Which I'm a shoot for the moon guy. That's what kind of ball python breeder I am. But I'm I'm the realization starting to sink in here, guys. Like now I'm like, don't expect to hit this [ __ ] when you only have two three odds or clutches to to to have a chance where these aren't even big game clutches that I'm getting. It's headto head, dude. [ __ ] It's not easy. It's not easy. And it's funny, too, because in my my DG clown stuff, I've never no matter what pairing I did, whether it was double head to double head or visual head to double head or no matter what I've done, I've always hit a visual DG clown. in every every single pairing I've ever done in the last like what four years. But Monarch Clown I've same pairings I've never hit. I've only hit like visual heads. That's it.

>> The odds the odds came around.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I got I'm paying for it on that end. But yeah.

>> Yeah, dude. And I've been and honest because and mind you too like this is I will respect you guys, man. Like I my my knowledge of ball pythons only go as far as my my collection because that's that's all the time I have to research. Like I'm not I'm not in it like a lot of these other guys like Christa. Like dude, Christa, shout out to Christa who's [ __ ] she nerds out. Like she is looking at some of the newer stuff that's coming out where like I don't even know what that's like hatching that stuff. You know what I mean? And so I remember I showed you guys the snake, showed you guys both the snake I hit this morning, which I'm I'm I'm hoping after test results it is a lace yellow belly spotnose clown. But I I'll never forget and I remember try keeping my my mouth shut for about a good week. But cutting that egg, I thought it was a Stranger Lace. I thought it looked that good. And I literally got my hopes up for a good 10 days thinking I hit Stranger Lace. And of course, I show it to Alio and Christa. And I knew if it was Stranger Lace, I would have got a quick reaction. There was nothing for like a minute. I was like, "This is not this is not good." And so and then and then and then I shared it to the Patreon and they're like someone's like is that a spot-nose clown? And I'm like I threw my phone in the air. I said [ __ ]

>> Hey, so what I can bring to this is if a project is really important to me and I want to have animals for the market as well. Honestly, it's crazy, man. But you have to have

>> You got a lot.

>> You have to have seven, eight, nine animals.

>> Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah.

>> I mean,

>> I agree.

>> Oh, hey and time. And yeah,

>> Because it's going to take a few years, you know?

>> Yeah.

>> There's no way around it.

>> We always say time is the most expensive thing. And it is in a sense, but dude, space, dude. Let's think about space. Like even if you got the money, you got the time. Do you have that extra space? That's what it comes down to. Like me, man. Like I had no People are like, "Wow, MJ, that's real mature of you. Like you cutting down." Well, kind of. I had no choice. Like if I wanted to keep all this [ __ ] I had to cut down because I don't have the [ __ ] space. But even when it comes to this ball python stuff, like I The person I always think about when it comes to like hoarding holdbacks is Will Moros.

>> Yeah.

>> He had all the space for it. He had his own his own hatchling room. And and and are you on that kind of level? You got to ask yourself if you're getting into this these high-end projects. All I'm saying is it's cool to invest in high-end [ __ ] It makes the hobby turn around, but are you really down for that [ __ ] when it comes down to holding it back? because it's not that easy to hit the goal that you're trying to hit as you are progressing. And I feel like that's the whole idea, right? It's it's chess, not checkers. Like people see Justin and Miguel, Azie, uh Levance, Mark Bailey hit all this [ __ ] and they just think like, "Oh, all I need are two animals to get that." Nope, that's not true. I'm just saying like,

>> But but dude, you don't realize that until years later. Like here I am. I got in the game 2017 and like now this stuff is starting to sink in. You see what I'm saying? Mind you, I I haven't been all ball pythonheavy mentally over the last few years, but still like I we talk about it every week. And so it's like it comes down to like the space and are you really down to hold [ __ ] back? And I want to talk to you about that, Jacob. Like we always mention like why are people checking out? Like the biggest reason why people are checking out is because they don't want to hold their own [ __ ] back and they don't want to keep the [ __ ] that they have. They're unhappy. And that makes sense why you should get out if you're unhappy. But you know, let's talk about like holdbacks and and and and starting off like how important it is with a foundation, especially if you have the right foundation because like we were talking about earlier, you could be starting off and dude, three years will go by you're like, "Dude, this ain't going to work. None of this shit's going to work."

>> Yeah, hold backs is tricky. It depends on the project. like with with all the the DG clowns that I was hitting. Um, I sold most of those because I kind of I saw the writing on the wall. Like I saw that these were not going to be, you know, an easy quick 10 12K, you know, like it is right now. And and it was just just a matter of you know well economics but mainly just realizing that all these people that are buying these visual animals or these you know that are in the project there was a lot of people buying a lot of people going to be producing it's going to flood the market. So I I my thinking with that was um I'm just going to sell I held back a lot of stuff that needed to be tested and so like a lot of visual clowns that were head were the head DG or P head DG but uh like but for instance the monarch clown stuff because we don't we didn't have tests and a lot of those pairings were double head to double head. I held back I probably held back 30 animals like over the last three years just waiting for tests and um yeah I mean even even those anything that tested uh he monarch and het clown they're they're in the holdback they're not going nowhere and I think that's just the nature of the project you know like it makes more sense to hold those animals back and and try to produce at this current time with that project you know it at the time I mean a single gene you know, or you know, no no Kodoms DG clown. I mean, that's a cool animal to have, but honestly, like with what I want to do, it's it's not really the animal the ideal animal to hold back. I want I want the kodoms in there. I want, you know, and the kodoms that I like, not just, you know, in Firefly because that's what mom came with. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah.

>> I think that's a problem, too. people just, you know, they they ignore Kodom sometimes and produce a bunch of animals and can't figure out why they don't sell,

>> Dude. And like that whole, okay, we talked about this not too long ago, like learning the incomplete dominant side of things, like knowing which ones are the ones that are best for your project because even though you see stuff on YouTube channels that all look great, like does it look great with what you're working with? Like, and do you know that? Like, do you understand how not everything goes together? Um, so and that takes time, man. Like that's why, man, because and mind you, a lot of people really benefited from COVID. I'm one of them for sure. I benefited the [ __ ] out of COVID. It was one of my first couple years selling and but also like I'm like you, Jacob. Like I knew this [ __ ] was too good to be true. Like I was like, wait a minute. Like wow. Like this is like this is insane. Um, but it painted a narrative in so many people's heads that they could get this type of return for whatever like whatever reason. Like they I already know most of the people who were investing were being told or had the assumption that that's going to triple back in three years off one clutch or whatever the [ __ ] whatever math that they're doing in their head. You know what I'm saying?

>> I heard that a lot.

>> It just doesn't work like that, dude. Um, but but but but do you feel like am I right about like that Jacob? Like a lot that was like the almost the the the basic textbook pitch like you know what I mean that that that uh timeline of return.

>> Yeah for sure. I mean and you see it and you see those people as soon as it as soon as you know as soon as the COVID thing went away. I mean you saw you saw a lot of those people get out real quick.

>> Yeah.

>> When it wasn't no when it was no longer an investment that had that they could see a a viable return for their time. Checked out.

>> They just didn't have, you know, it's it's it's more than just making money. It always is. I mean, the money part of it is fun, but it's it's always like you got to be passionate about this. You got to be like, "Hey, every Tuesday I'm cleaning rats." And that's just that's just it, you know, like or you know, there it's just and it's it's got to be that way. And if you're not enjoying doing that, you're probably not going to keep doing it.

>> Yeah. Because I mean, you don't always want to go clean rat [ __ ] I'll tell you that much. Like like me me and Mia talk about it like what's your day? Monday Mia or Tuesday? What day is your

>> Oh, okay. So, it's a couple more days away. But, you know, but me, I'll tell you right now, because of the like the actual success I've had with green tree pythons and and like how I don't have to pay no one for a rodent bill, dude. I like rodent days now. Like, even though they suck, I realize how much calories I burn after a rodent day. So, I'm like, that's [ __ ] good. Like, I'm getting some something beneficial out of it. You know, the whole huffing in the [ __ ] wood chips and all that sucks. I'm not not a fan of that and I hope I don't die early because of that. I I do think of that sometimes like dude is this going to kill me sooner, but what the [ __ ] What else isn't? So, I'm just whatever. But I I I've been taught I think this is what I learned working at a gym. Uh, because you know at a gym people are slobs. People throw their towels on the floor and you have to pick you have to pick up after people and I was trying to like run my own gym back then. So you just had to learn how to like be okay with like doing [ __ ] you normally don't want to do. And you know that's called lovey than grunt work. Like, and because you learn to love that, dude. All the other stuff like pulling [ __ ] babies and [ __ ] That's That's Are you kidding me? Like, that's that's not work. We We all know that's not work. That's us being kids and we [ __ ] geek out. Um, but anyways, yeah, like rodents. Let's kind of get to that subject. Like, another big subject people did not really do much thinking of, which probably why it led to their exit, their early exit, you would say, right? Like not having that part of it down.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's that's a thing that I don't think I don't know how that scales in people's minds as they're building their collection and and buying two animals every day on auction. I don't think it scales in their mind like in their mind in the moment it's like, "Oh, that's, you know, another eight bucks a week. That's nothing." But,

>> You know, that adds up, especially when you're just

>> When you're just grabbing stuff because it's cool or whatever. Yeah. Those people are are setting themselves up for even more failures down the road. And and ro feeding is one of the big ones for sure.

>> You know what's funny to me? You got guys asking for snakes on a $80 payment plan? [ __ ]

>> Wait, what? Like they want to pay you $80 a month.

>> What I'm saying is if you can't afford to buy the snakes, how are you going to afford to feed the snakes

>> Long term?

>> How are you going to afford to feed the babies? How are you going to afford the racks for the babies?

>> Yeah.

>> The heat for the babies,

>> The bowls for the babies,

>> Everything for the babies.

>> Yeah.

>> There's no planning with a lot of this [ __ ] bro. They don't plan.

>> I don't think they really care enough about all that stuff. Honestly, most of these people, I think it's just it's the it's the investment aspect of it, you know, and some people are successful at doing that because they already have other things going or they, you know, they got another stream of funds coming in and stuff and that's fine.

>> Or they or they care or passionate enough to figure it out because

>> Right. Right. That's what I'm Well, that's what I'm saying. The difference is is that people people that care about this, you know, want this, they're they're going to probably figure it out sooner or later and start making wiser decisions.

>> Yeah.

>> You know. Yeah, because I I mean, dude, I didn't come into I always talk about this. I had [ __ ] hardly any I was in such a crazy change in my life when I came into this hobby. I could only afford snakes on Craigslist. I bought my first rack off Craigslist. My first year breeding ball pythons were in do-it-yourself Home Depot [ __ ] shelf uh racks that I built with Target tubs, dude. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah, but you grew slow. Correct.

>> Well, I had no choice.

>> I remember those racks.

>> Yeah. Yeah, because you actually you came with Antoine when I replaced those racks. Yep.

>> One that I got from him. The one with the rivet. [ __ ] God, I hate that thing, but I still got it. God damn it. Uh, but yeah, dude. Like I But I'm glad I did because if I had all that money, guys, I would be one of these [ __ ] in the statistics of like I [ __ ] had all this goddamn money and I blew it. U just because like I am somebody who likes shortcuts. Like I always talk about this like one of my pet peeves growing up is like I found an easier quicker way to get things done and you can't do that in this game. Like especially because you got to be okay with it being longterm and and and I will tell you I love dude I love reptiles. Like it all started with the love of just a ball python and what that ball python always meant to me. Um, never thought about the money. Um, I just wanted cool snakes and when I saw that they had racks I was like I want to fill this [ __ ] rack up. I was one of those guys where I was like, I don't care what it is. I just want a snake in there. I don't give a [ __ ] Like, I want I want to have all I just want I just want to pull all these tubs open. You know what I mean? But dude, like we all talk about how like, man, it doesn't matter the money and even sometimes the research, dude, you could literally get a shitty hand dealt to you, which will [ __ ] give you the long long road into this. Like sometimes you'll never even figure it out because how many like mis [ __ ] interpreted things have been said to you know to you for whatever reason like cuz we we Okay, how about this Jacob? Is this true or false? Bigger people in this game who know how to sink their claws into certain new breeders and making sure they only buy through them and stuff like that. Is that true?

>> Oh yeah, there's a that Yeah. I mean, are you talking about like that clickiness where it's like

>> Very clicky? Yeah.

>> It's an umbrella. Yeah. Like I I see it a lot. I've seen it a lot. you see it in in it's it's certain people, it's certain groups, it's I tend to stay away from those types of people.

>> So, what's your best advice as far as like learning how to get into the right project um for the right amount of money, too, right? Because, you know, we we all see this, dude. Like, we we we see things on one website versus on a morph market ad. It could all be [ __ ] like different. So, what's the best piece of advice for anyone out there, Jacob? Like doing the right homework that you should be doing, you know? How do you do that nowadays?

>> Man, it's like it part of it is just finding stuff that you like because you got to like like the stuff that you're working with, too. But you just got to I mean, you just got to be forward thinking and look at the projects, look at who's working what, you know, spend six months. I spent like I spent almost eight months before I bought anything on Instagram checking out like finding these snake breeders and I started following all these people. I started watching YouTube. I started watching you. I started watching uh man who else was I watching back there. That purple shirt guywick too.

>> Yeah.

>> Like you don't know any better. And then you know when you click on those are the first two that pop up man. It's not my fault dude. I did not enjoy it.

>> Yeah, dude. It was kind of like, you know, I found bare check just by googling a ball python morph I bought on Craigslist. Yeah. Like once I put in the word morph after ball python, there was snake bites TV everywhere. And this is this is 2015.

>> And so I I had one ball python geeking out over bar check for a [ __ ] whole year before buying the next ball python. And then I went that's where everything just went where it went after. Yeah. So sometimes you like like being new, you could just be like, "Well, let me type this in. let me search and you might see a video from [ __ ] 12 years ago and be like and be like, "Wow, this guy's saying don't invest in the high projects and he's wearing the same wrinkle purple shirt that he's had for like the last [ __ ] 13 years." Like, but like no, don't listen to that guy. Where's that guy now?

>> Or

>> Telling you telling you to invest in pinstripe albinos.

>> Yeah. Or the other guy eating an infertile ball python egg. Like I Bro, I never watched that [ __ ]

>> What? Who did that?

>> Who did that?

>> That Chris Hardwood guy, bro. He fried a [ __ ] infertile.

>> An infertile egg, dude.

>> He ate that [ __ ]

>> He fried it.

>> He [ __ ] ate that [ __ ] bro.

>> Raw or did he fry it?

>> He cooked it. I don't know if he fried it, but he cooked it and he [ __ ] ate that [ __ ] That's the type of [ __ ] people were watching, bro.

>> Way to go.

>> Me, I was watching Ryan and Justin. And you know what? Let me give him a little bit of a little bit of flowers. Uh, Kevin, I used to watch Kevin.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Those guys, Brian and them were like so much bigger, like so much more different animal species and reptiles and stuff that when I got in it wasn't like it wasn't really ball python centric. So like I mean I saw him and stuff and I'd watch him but I didn't like consider him like I didn't even really know anything about him. I didn't even know that he did read ball pythons and was such a big part of the early years, but you know, I knew who he was and stuff, but yeah, he it was it was mainly like these just like MJ mainly like when I started watching that and

>> It was I mean, you were really ball python heavy back then like as far as content. Yeah. So, it was it was it was cool. It was, you know, that's the thing, too, is you got to kind of fill it out, too. You got to make sure like when you meet people and stuff, it's like you think you might know who they are because you saw them on a on a podcast or, you know, maybe you've chatted with them online and stuff, but you should really try to get to know people before you let them in your snake room, before you let them into your your your projects, your, you know,

>> Oh, that's for sure.

>> Yeah. Because I I've, you know, I'm lucky. I didn't get burned by anyone significant or significantly at all. But I had a local guy that kind of latched on and he didn't have an incubator and he wanted me to take over a female and I hatched it out for him and we ended up buying a bunch I was breeding geckos back then. I we bought a bunch of uh wholesale like high-end geckos like a big group bolt group and he ended up ripping me off for like half of them and uh like quite a bit of money. Not not a lot but at the time it was a lot of money that I could have bought snakes with. So yeah, I mean you just got to you got to be you got to be careful. I mean get to know people before you start making plans with people because unfortunately in this industry well in any let's be real. This is not just you know here this is everywhere. There's there's good people and there's bad people. Man,

>> Your inner your inner circle should be really small. If it's big your standards are low.

>> But guess what? It's it's normal for it to be big when you first come in because you're trying to be and and I I commend people who like go fill out what group or whatever it is that that is there for them. God bless you. Like go go be happy wherever fits you best. But I don't know like to each their own, you know? It's it's

>> No, I'm not talking about Jacob. I mean in general I mean it teaches this all this stuff teaches you that life teaches you that.

>> No. Yeah. Um, I agree with that. I think and then what NJ's saying too is true be it's like

>> You are kind of

>> You do have a bigger circle when you first get into like a community like this because you are kind

of trying to fill people out and you find it. You'll find it slowly whittle away until you've got your core people. And you've got your people you can trust, people that you have fun with, people with the same passion.

No, no. It's as soon as you start hatching cool [ __ ]. That's when once you start hatching sick [ __ ], that's when people are like, "Oh, that too." Yeah. Then, then you, then the circle grows again, or it tries to. Anyways, that's my favorite kind of growth because then you see the real ones. And also, I will say, shout out to Mark Bailey, man. But man, he's always been somebody to tell me like, cuz, mind you, everyone has like, and I would say Mark Bailey is the only guy I've never had anyone come tell me [ __ ] some bad story about. But everyone else I looked up to in this hobby had somebody tell me, "This happened, that happened." And Mark Bailey would always tell me, "Well, I always like this person because I never did business with them. I like that person because I never did business with them." And what he was saying is like, "Dude, you don't do business with people, you're going to be all right." But usually, you find the true colors and what people's intentions are as soon as you do business with them. You know what I mean? And and and it's crazy because that's what we want to do business with each other. But if you really want to know what someone's about, do business with them and see how they do business. And that's, that's going to really kind of give you an idea of what kind of individual that person is based off how they do business.

It's definitely part of it for sure. I don't want to say everything, but it gives you a good idea. Yeah. I mean, you, you definitely, yeah. But at the same time, you, there's some people you probably should not even think about getting in business with. Yeah. But, but if they have something that somebody wants, they don't give a [ __ ].

Exactly. That's, that's part of the problem, too, in this community. Yeah. Um, I mean, we even, we even talked about it today. Someone who was accused of stealing is still like, low-key selling snakes on the low, and people don't give a [ __ ]. And that's, listen, at the end of the day, do what you want, but like, you got to, I don't know what you, I don't know what you got to do in this hobby to not be able to sell a snake anymore. I really don't. Like, you've heard of people like doing [ __ ] nasty [ __ ] at shows to women. Like, I've heard, I've heard lists of things that people have done in this hobby, and they're still around selling snakes. So, at this point, I don't, God bless you, dude. I don't.

I don't, I don't think you can eliminate people. I don't think it's possible. But you, but what you can do is make people aware. And like, people just as adults make their own decisions. And I'm cool with that. But I just, I just love the beautiful [ __ ] the universe of karma and how karma works because I know karma is a real thing for sure. And, and especially in this hobby, dude. [ __ ] What goes around comes around. It's, it's like, it's, it's, it's historically proven that karma is a real thing in this hobby.

100%. What were you gonna say? Were you gonna say something, Biggie?

It's a tough market. If you already have handicaps and they're only getting worse.

Dude, for real. It's like, not imagine not being able to sell on Morph Market. Goddamn.

Right. I mean, I'm just saying like, you know.

Hey, you could give all the life support you want, bro. It's, it's, at one point, you're a vegetable.

Hey, what's crazy to me, how, what's crazy to me, how the whole push on how you don't need to sell on Morph Market. Any individual who was in that group is still selling on Morph Market.

Yeah. Oh, man. And they're probably not selling on Morph Market either.

I just got their accounts out. Like, they, they, they're trying.

No, I know. They're trying. Trust me. Um, you know what I mean? But it's also like, okay, can we go back to like, you know, and what I, what my example I was going to go off of that, how like, whoever is complaining about something just isn't doing good in that department. Like, they're, like, whoever is doing good on Morph Market, are they complaining about Morph Market? No. Anyone who is selling and doing good in the ball python market, are they complaining about the market? No. You don't see them in comments, you don't see them on podcasts talking about that the market's not doing well because they're doing fine. Individuals who are not doing too well, well, yeah, that's a different story, right? Does that make sense?

For sure. I mean, I don't have, I don't have anything left from 2024 to sell except some, some maybe some wholesale stuff that, that, uh, I tested recently that came up negative. But like, I, I mean, the way I look at it is, if you're, if you're counting on Morph Market to make the sales for you and that's all you're doing and you're complaining, then you're, you're not, you're not doing enough. There's, there's so many avenues to put a snake out in front of people, in front of eyes. And, uh, you know, I, people say this, the snakes will sell themselves. Yeah, that's true. If you've got something that's, that's that people want, or you know, that's that you know, or something new maybe that people get excited about, you are going to make sales. I mean, there, there's a lot to why people aren't making sales right now. Some of it's probably the animals, some of it's probably effort, and all of it is bad attitude. You shouldn't be bitching about any platform. What you should be doing is learning, evolving, adjusting. And I mean, because if you can't do that, you might as well close shop.

Yeah. I think ego has a big thing to do with it. Like not realizing this is where you're [ __ ] up at. Like this is where you could do better. And yeah, might take more time out of your day, but that's what you got to do. And if you don't want to do it, then don't [ __ ] and complain because you're not wanting to sacrifice. Like, like for me, if I'm running a business, like, what I mean, I get it. Family is very important. I feel like you should always take care of your family. But how do you expect the business to be a [ __ ] profitable running business, especially in the ball python game, if you're not doing everything you possibly can? Like, you're right, Jacob. Relying just on Morph Market to just post, dude. No. I mean, unless you can survive off auctions, then go for it. But that obviously, that you should have bigger goals than auctions. You really should. You know what I mean? But I also don't judge either. Some people just breed to sell pet level quality animals at [ __ ] the shows and that's cool too.

Um, what were you saying, Jacob?

Oh, no. I just agree with you.

Oh, I was just agree. Yeah. Some people are, that's their thing. I mean, whatever.

Yeah. If you're going to be a dreamer, if you're going to be living outside of reality, uh, you're pretty much going to be an NLP.

Yeah. And you know what, dude? Like, not for profit.

Listen, I, I know there's a lot of, like, I got to remember, we all don't know what people are going through in life, right? And this hobby brings some of the best people into your lives, okay? And I know sometimes not a lot of people have the level of breeding or whatever, but they just love the people. Like, they like being a part of it. And, and I can, I could totally understand that, dude. Um, but I don't know, like, do you feel like if, if you're in this for the ball pythons, if you're in this for the projects, you shouldn't be too hard on yourself if you are a loner? Because I feel like there should be a time and place where you are putting yourself out there. But not everyone enjoys that. Like, dude, if it wasn't for this [ __ ] podcast, you would not see much of me. I would just be a hermit in here. Like, and you would see all my animals. I'd be like a [ __ ] I don't know. I can't think of some like, like a Ed Marino or something, just just seeing sick [ __ ] and not my mouth. Like, I am tired of talking. I will say I'm [ __ ] over it at this point. But I'm just saying like, not everyone likes to be on that kind of [ __ ] platform. And me and Amelio have had people who just won't come on the show because they don't like that attention. And, and I think that's okay. I don't feel like everyone needs to be this spotlight outspoken person. You don't need to do that to be successful. But you do have to build your social media presence somehow. You know what I mean? Like that. And that, that takes a lot of work as well. Like having to remember to post like, what is it, twice a day or some [ __ ] Like, you should be posting twice a day and all. Okay. Like, that's that kind of gets old also. But you got to do it. It's building a brand. It's building a market. It's marketing yourself.

Oh, yeah. I agree. And I'm one of the guys, too, that says like, and, and it's what I did. As soon as I didn't even have any animals produced, but I had already created my logo. I already had that image. And I would just post what I had. And I, and I would do like a post every like, a day. And I would just keep, you know, getting my, my, my brand out there, my logo, people recognize it, start gaining friends. By the time I was making stuff, I already had like, quite a, quite a nice group of, uh, a good following on on Instagram. And I mean, that helped out a lot because when I started to make stuff, I already had made a lot of connections at that point. But if I had just sat on my hands, I mean, you're not going to go very far. If you don't have a, in today's day and age, a lot of those people you mentioned, they, they were around before the internet. They were around before IG. Today's day and age, if you want to make a name for yourself, you have to be out and you have to put something out. You can't, whether it's animals, whether you know, whatever it is, there's, you've got to put stuff out. You can't survive.

Don't you guys think this is where you ride the, this is where you got to like walk the tightrope here? Because like, as as important as social media is, you got some people who are good at getting like a bunch of followers based off like viral reels or whatever, but it's not actual true substant [ __ ] followers. Meaning like, when it comes to you selling a snake, are they there to [ __ ] see a snake that they want to buy? No, they just want to see that next [ __ ] you know, either post that you shared or whatever. So, I feel like.

You dancing all up in the video.

Are you dancing in the video? That's cute, dude. Like, that's cool. But like, are you able to sell a snake? Are you able to sell a snake once [ __ ] comes down to it?

Dancing and [ __ ].

I'm gonna start dancing in my videos, dude.

Hey, man. Listen, do what you got, bro.

No, man. But it's also like, yeah, I don't know. It's, you just, you can't be too upset if you're doing all what you're doing. Um, but either the social media or something's missing. What?

Where are you going next with the the agenda? Because I have a question.

What?

All right. I have a question for both of you because, you know, it's on my mind.

Shoot.

Would, would either of you allow a known thief in your Patreon if you had one?

Absolutely not.

He's known. It's a known thief. But yeah.

Known thief that owes people money still, that, uh, banged a few people. Many people we don't even know about.

What do you mean banged? What does that mean?

Well, banged means took advantage of.

I mean, me and Jacob. What?

Took their money.

I was, I had a totally different image going on my mind, dude.

Yeah. Well,

God, don't drop the soap. I think banging someone is the worst. I guess it's a term I use sometimes. You know.

That's, my visual went a way different route what we were discussing.

Um, I, I have the VU family and I would never in a million years allow a [ __ ] thief in my [ __ ] Patreon.

Because it would make me look bad.

Absolutely. I mean, what, what does that say?

People out there, people out there that have done that, they're great people. They really need to figure this out.

I agree. It's, it's, I mean, I just want to say one thing on that, too. It's like, um, I mean, obviously, there's been a situation recently and, uh, my thing about it is like, hey, if, if you've done wrong in this hobby and, but you come back and you say, "Hey, I've done wrong. I'm sorry. I'm gonna make it right to all these people and I'm, I'm just gonna work for your guys' respect again." If you come into this like that, if you come into like that, I'm not one to judge. I'm not one to hold back that back. I can respect that as long as it's carried through. But, I mean, when you're actively still ripping people off. I mean, literally actively behind the scenes still doing that.

Yeah. To me, that's, that's, that's uncalled for and that, that, that needs to be brought to the forefront. Yeah. We forgive as a nation. We forgive as a people.

To me, that's like, and, and like the people that are supporting them. It's like, you know, you guys all saw my stories, dude. They're like, there's no word. There's no nothing. It's just, "Oh, we're back into the shadows." And, uh, that's not healthy, dude. That's not good. That, you know, that puts, that's a bad image on all of us.

So, so we are forgiving as a country, as a people.

For sure. Um, but it, responsibility has to be taken, right? And if you're such a baller, right? You are a baller. Why don't you take care of everyone that you [ __ ] and then come back for real? We'll all accept you, right?

But you're probably not a baller anyway.

And, and again, that's what it'd be one thing if we were talking about one scenario, right? But man, there's a list. And as far as what, who we're talking about right now.

It's a lot more than just one thing that you did at a reptile super show. I'll tell you that much.

And it, and it continues. Yeah.

Yeah. And, but it also makes sense why there was no effort made on that person's end to want to come out at least defend yourself? Cuz dude, if you're going to be called that, but you want to stick around, what the [ __ ] bro? Like, that's like, you have no, no explanation. Oh, because you feel like you, we don't deserve an explanation because all the other dirty stuff people have done. Okay, sorry, dude. It don't work.

You know what you crazy, too, is I was getting screenshots from like [ __ ] that was going down in this chat and it was like my character and who I was was was on trial.

Yeah.

These chats, which is [ __ ] amazing.

I'm a [ __ ] gatekeeper. I'm a [ __ ] you know, I'm, you know, there was all kinds of terms thrown around that it's just like, it's, and, and, and no response still, you know? Like, this is known to them. This is known to him. So, real quick, Paco is one of one of those stand-up guys in this game.

One of the nicest guys. I do the nicest.

I like my, there's something in my heart that gets warm when I see him at a show and I give him a hug. He's just a [ __ ] good guy. I just had a.

[ __ ] hustler.

A good many things.

Does the snakes, [ __ ] nurse, [ __ ] realtor, [ __ ] new dad.

Yeah. Okay.

Killing it. And this guy is one of the most honest people out there. Okay. Guess what? He got banged.

Yeah.

And he's here and he's gonna share it in the chat.

And he's still getting banged.

Yeah.

Damn.

I want to start using that all the time.

Paco's backed by some of the best people in this game. We're obviously, there's three guys here that back Paco up, which is good. But see, that's the thing. Not everyone is as lucky as Paco, right? Like, not everyone has the the time in this game to have backup to where [ __ ] happens, they'll [ __ ] say something about it and they just get [ __ ]. Like, do you know how many good people probably like, Paco probably didn't make it to the point where they're at because they got [ __ ] You know what I mean? Like, dude, dude, that's, but mind you, obviously, with thank God for social media, the good part of social media is we have [ __ ] where it don't slide. Like, this [ __ ] just ain't going to slide anymore, right? Um, and, and that's how it should [ __ ] be, dude. If we could do anything about it, we should.

And chat's blowing up now with a lot of [ __ ].

You know what? You know what? Uh, the part of it, too, that, uh, it's like, I, I got a lot of feedback from some people saying like, "Well, why didn't they say anything when it happened to him?" And I'm like, "Are you [ __ ] kidding me?" Look at, look at what's happening to to me just putting a couple stories about this guy who's a known thief. Like, there's no question here. Like, I'm just putting a story out there and, and, and, uh, I'm getting all this backlash and it's not even, I'm not even really a part of it. I'm just, you know, trying to help out a friend, help helping out people that obviously feel like they don't have a voice here. They don't have a place to stand. And there are, there are people like that. There's like, you were saying earlier, there's people with a mouth and there's people that don't want that heat.

No, they're good. Not only that, he, look, a guy like Paco, Paco gave this guy the benefit of, benefit of the doubt, even in his worst moments. He believed in him that he was going to pay him. Okay? He believed in him. And you know what? A year later, I gave him my word a year ago. He told me what happened. I gave him my word that I wouldn't tell anyone, right? And you know, it was time. He got, he gave him, he gave him a [ __ ] year. He gave him a [ __ ] year. And, uh, you know, he wanted his money back, so that's why he probably didn't go public at first.

He gave the guy a [ __ ] chance. And these aren't like, these aren't instances where somebody sold something mistakenly or whatever. This is like, this dude's selling fake hats.

Blatantly fake hats. Like, straight.

Blatantly fake. Saying they're from Europe, but won't tell anybody who this European breeder is. Like, yeah, dude. Those are just, those are just [ __ ] clowns that he had, you know, trying to trying to buy something else. Put a freaking seven.

Uh.

Oh. Oh, froze.

He froze.

Let's see. Maybe he might snap out of it.

Yeah. So, for everyone that's watching, we're going to, anything that we see that's proven to be hurting anyone in the market, in the hobby, or hurting the hobby, expect to hear it here. I, I will say this though, this is where it kind of like, because we're going to get blamed for only picking certain things to address. Like, we, I, I got, not me personally, because they, they won't [ __ ] say my name anymore, but, you know, supposedly like, because, you know, of the issue of color, of of the guy being black, you know what I mean? Like, that's the only, only reason why people give a [ __ ]. And that's not the [ __ ] case like at all.

I got that too. I got that too. I heard that came back to me too.

Like, what is, how are you gonna bring race into this? Like, it's about the actions first and foremost, you know? Um, so that's what, that's another reason why it's like, dude. Okay, you want to circle to that? Okay.

Black, brown, black, brown, yellow, purple.

Uh, sorry. Can I be vulgar? Coochie dick.

Oh my god.

Uh, banging, banging coochie. You got your head.

Whatever you are. I don't care. If you're a thief, we're gonna [ __ ] address it. Yeah. The, the race thing is, the race thing is actually just intellectual laziness, to be honest, because it's just a, it's a.

Well, it's a victim card.

Yeah.

It's like, it, no, no, he's good. That guy, that guy's picking on him or that guy's, you know. No, dude. Like, I don't care what color he is. I don't care what country his ancestors were from.

Yeah.

It does not, it makes no difference to me. I mean, that, that's just a wild accusation to throw out there, especially if anybody knows me and knows who my circle is and, and, and about me and my life and what I've done and who I who I associate with and stuff. It's like, it's just a wild, wild accusation to throw out there, man.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, I mean, again, this is all just kind of knowing your circle at this point, because what sucks is like, this happened within their circle or that circle, you know? Um, like being a victim to somebody who you vend next to. Like, that's has to be one of the, has to be one of the worst people to get jacked by. You know what I mean?

I mean, this is a pretty tremendous event. This is not like, like you were saying, like, we're not, we're not hitting everybody the same. Well, I mean, you show me, uh, an instance that's happened in the last year where a, a good friend, a vending mate tried to steal a $10,000 snake and then lie about it saying it was a prank. I mean, to the extent where they faked a handoff with an imaginary person. I mean, and then, and then just disappears into the night. Nobody hears from him. Well, at least I didn't hear from him. I mean, I'm sure you guys didn't, but obviously some people were, but, uh, yeah. So, like, I mean, show me something like that, you know? And hey, I'll jump on that, too.

I, I can't put myself in that position, honestly.

The hand, the individual on the handoff was Hispanic, and then somebody told me it was Miguel.

Dude, it all makes sense now, dude. Dude, holy [ __ ].

Down a while. So, there you go.

Oh, damn.

Oh, [ __ ].

Sold it in Mexico or what?

We're coming after the Mexicans. Oh my god.

Never mind. Just kidding. Just kidding.

Viva Mexico. Um,

Yeah.

Boy. Homeboy is in Mexico right now.

Yeah, he's [ __ ] in his swollon. He's having the time of his life. Um, but okay. Can we got to get back? Let's get back to things here. Um, obviously, like you growing tremendously into the projects that you're now working with now. Um, I'm, I'm curious where things are headed with some of your forefront projects. Um, I'm sure DG Clown is still in the mix, or you did you kind of venture away from that project at this point?

Well, everything's going. I mean, I guess I can't say everything, but I'm, that, that project is hypo going into that project. Okay. And then I'm taking all that stuff. I'm going one way with Exic and I'm going one way with Monarch. And then I'm, I'm going to try to just incorporate paint into all of it. So like, that's just kind of like what I, I mean, that's, I mean, honestly, that's 20 years. That's, that's a long way, but that's where my head is. And I know that in between, I'm going to make some cool, cool badass [ __ ] like in the meantime. But the goal is really high. Really, really, really, uh, outstretching. I'm not, you know, it's not something I'm gonna achieve in the next five years. But, um, yeah, I just, I, I like that idea because I kind of had that, I kind of noticed there was females that I was like, "Man, I could pair that to this, but it's got this, and I don't know if I want to do that." But so I mean, like, I, I really took time and effort to, uh, redesign everything. And I kind of took like the Aussie approach too, where it's like, I, I make something and that female, that it came from, it's, it's an upgrade. She's getting replaced as soon as that female's ready to breed. So I, I, I don't keep a lot of stuff for very long. I, you know, like, a lot of these females are getting replaced. I think I maybe have eight of my original females that I bought out of like 60, maybe.

Right. And they've all been replaced with stuff that I made or, or new stuff I bought and just keep continuously upgrading what I have. I don't want to make 50, 60 clutches a year. Not, not right now. That's not a plan. I like, I like 20, 25. I'll probably get there again eventually, but I'm, I'm, I'm being really tight with what I pair. I probably have 10 females right now that I'm not even pairing this year.

Jacob, would you say that you're going to be the next two or three years, you're going to be more focused on Monarch, Monarch combos, and that's going to be like your number one?

Yeah. Uh, for two reasons. Because I mean, I really like Monarch Clown. I mean, that's been one of my favorites in the beginning. It's one of the first projects I got into. Um, but just, uh, also with where the project is too, it's like such a, it's kind of untapped. So there's a lot to be done there. So like, I mean, I just feel like there's more to do there. And I mean, and I like it. So yeah, it's, it's definitely the one I, I mean, I've probably done way more, I know, I know I've done way more in DG Clown, but I think the one that, the one that I'm most like anticipating making these combos is definitely Monarch Clown for sure.

Now, I don't know how you feel about, um, Sunset Fully, but I have to ask this. Uh, man, I, now that the Ultra Sunset's been so successful, uh, bro, I really want to see, uh, Sunset Monarch.

Uh, yes. So, and you guys know Andrew. Um, me and him kind of combined forces in a, in a sense. We're not like combining companies or anything, but we're, we're working a lot of stuff together. And we'll probably be making, uh, clown double hats next year. Sunset Monarch.

Yeah.

Um, so that's part of the part of the plan as well. I want to do it just because like you said, I saw the, the Ultram. I'm like, "No, we're, we're going to do better."

Yeah. And, okay. But here's the thing though, right? Like, I'm, I'm waiting to see a dark gene make Sunset look good.

Yeah. I mean.

Hasn't been one.

You know what I think would do? I think DG honestly, that that's where DG would come into play with Sunset. I think.

DG Monarch with both of them.

No, I'm saying, I'm saying as far as like, uh, with dark genes, Sunset.

When you were saying dark genes with Sunset don't really work. I think if you can get DG in there, because DG works well with dark. And the problem with Sunset is it doesn't have a lot of contrast. So you kind of lose the, you lose the benefit of DG without the contrast. But if you can get that darkness to it and it contrasts into, you know, the alien heads specifically like in Clown or something, I think there's potential there.

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but DG wipes a little bit of the pattern out, right? It cleans it up from what I understand.

It, it does. I don't, I don't know if it wipes out the pattern as much as it wipes out like a lot of the, the, the granity look, or, or like the, it kind of crisps up the lines a little bit. Um, but it does tend to, like, I've noticed in a lot of combos, uh, like I have a fire ghi, redst stripe DG Clown. She's, she's super bright. You would think it was like a pastel animal almost because she's bright yellow. And it's literally the DG and the fire together just blasted. Because if you took the D, if you take the DG out of that combo and it's just a Clown, it's very contrasting. But the combination of it with DG, it just really blasts the snake out. It's not as appealing as, you know, without, without the fire, it would be a lot more appealing and without the DG too, I think.

Yeah. Okay. Here's another thing though, too. Like, you know, we talk about certain genes that are like a no-no, right? Like, I've been, like, I will say this year, even though I've been kind of not hitting everything I want to hit, everything hasn't had pastel in it finally. And I'm like, "Wow, this looks, like, I wouldn't be upset if pastel was, but it just smacks differently when pastel is not in the mix with a lot of this stuff." But, and also like, with gene, like with genes like fire, like fire isn't always ideal in certain stuff, but if you have it in the right combination, it, it makes that [ __ ] gene, it makes everything look a lot better. I think like that is gonna help Sunset a lot, like stuff like fire.

Even, I don't know, I don't know how I haven't seen again, Sunset. If I want to go take a [ __ ], I'll just, or look at [ __ ], I'll just go take one. But I'm just saying like, pastel, I haven't seen. Does pastel and Sunset go hand in hand from what you know, Alio?

It's not bad.

So that's the thing too. It's like, Sunset, like any ball python really, when you have a baby, you're like, "Damn, this thing looks great." And then you see years later and it's like.

I'll tell you guys, Pastel works really well in Ultramoo and Puzzle, right?

I think it works great in Monarch too.

Yeah. Yeah.

It actually darkens. They actually get darker.

The, the, the darks on a Monarch get darker with pastel.

Yeah. So, I, I'd actually, I'd actually like to see a pastel Ultramo Sunset, pastel Monarch Sunset. Um, [ __ ] like that. Like, bro, I'm telling you guys, like, I know I come off as a pastel hater, but I wish I had pastel in some of my puzzle animals right now. And I wish I had, uh, pastel and some of my Ultramo animals right now.

It would be a plus.

You know? So, you know, it is what it is.

I purged a lot of pastel and ini out of my out of my.

Yeah, I don't. Bro, I hate.

Enti.

Dude, Ini was the death of me, dude. I couldn't hatch an animal without Ini in the beginning. I had a a leelic uh black pastel inchy red striped fire male head clown from Justin and I was pairing it to like six females and I swear to God like every, it was like six to one inchy black pastel with the.

I have two enties in my collection.

Damn.

You used to have a lot?

No, I just.

Not a fan.

I mean, I had some. I just never let, let it take over really. I mean, it's nice. I have it for my dream simple stuff, but yeah, it's not, I'm not a, I'm not a huge enti lover.

It takes away from most stuff that I like. Like when I see.

Stranger, Ini, and like, uh, just different genes that to me, it takes away. It's like.

I, I use it. I use stuff for its strength. I, I ensure nothing takes over my collection that I don't want to take over, you know? So.

Yeah, I think and she, like, because it, it already has its own power with the pattern and, and when you have stuff like stranger that also does that, and you, and I would, you know, I would want, I would think like in a pairing, you would want to hit stranger over enti. Um, but then when you get a bunch of [ __ ] that's enti, you're like, "Goddamn it." I don't know. I just feel like enti is a powerful gene too. Like, you, you always hit a bunch of enties. I feel like.

That's been my experience, dude. I love the same leopard too. I feel like I, I feel like I have the same luck with leopard.

Well, leopard too. Isn't there like, you could have like a.

Super form and you not.

Yeah, like hypothetical and not even know it, too.

I might have that. I might have that, maybe potentially. I don't know.

I think I have that in a couple of my clown head monarch males that I produce that are starting to breed this year.

I'm pretty sure one of them's super leopard. We'll see.

Yeah. But, you know, I don't know, man. Like, I, I've, I've, I've heard this before about Entie and then brought it up to somebody like Bob Boot. No, not Bob. I brought it to somebody. They're like, "No, entry is still important. It's still crucial." But.

It is. It's got a place to. It's got a place for sure.

Just not in my collection.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, especially if pattern's your thing, right? Like, if, if you're trying to be unique with a pattern.

You're not going to do much with Enti because it all does the same thing.

I don't need any more enti.

Yeah.

As I'm getting ready to cut in eggs, a couple leaves. Will says, "Don't sleep on the leic reaction between black."

That's one of my favorite leic combos. That, that orange you can get out of that is pretty intense. Probably better than OD when it gets big in my opinion.

Hey, but don't, don't listen to us because look, at the end of the day, you're going to have Jacob with a bunch of Monarch in his collection and I'm gonna have a bunch of Aantic and maybe one day someone's going to come on and say, "Man, you shouldn't have so much exantic in your collection. You shouldn't have so much monarch in your collection." You know, I mean, at the end of the day, do what, do what makes you happy.

Oh, yeah, dude.

I'm, I'm half [ __ ] around and half serious.

No, because people people get their, you know.

It literal sometimes.

Yeah, I know. I know, Jean. Yeah, it's.

Pastel hater.

Hey, can we talk about like the latest trend in the hobby lately?

Yeah. So.

Talk about it.

Uh, starting a Patreon.

Oh my god. Oh man. Listen. I, I, okay. There was a good run of these when they, remember when Patreon started becoming a thing? Like, I started mine five years ago, going on six. But then there was like a year of that after that, like all these other Patreon, like ball python Patreons started popping up. And remember, love you, JP, but JP had one and JP had one, I think, before his first clutch even, I think, or something like that.

Is that always evolving, Canada? Is that what you're talking about?

Yeah. No, but then it was like, holy [ __ ]. But then it died down. But now here we are, man. We're in the biggest fake it till you make it era in the ball python game. It's not even funny. But it's also not funny because you're kind of painting a picture that's not accurate. Okay, you're like, "Come join my Patreon for breeding advice," but what's your [ __ ] resume like when it comes to breeding? Right? Um, first and foremost, which we already know, there's even podcasters out there who [ __ ] want to be known as a breeder in the hobby, which they're [ __ ]. They don't got the numbers. They don't got anything to prove what the [ __ ] they're claiming, right? But holy [ __ ], dude. Like, let's, let's hear your take on it. Like, these, these Patreons that are popping up right now, man. Like, it, it takes a lot of [ __ ] guts. I will tell you that much. But what do you think, Jacob?

Well, here's the deal. The people that have Patreons that are that are like warranted, like that make sense. Uh, they put in all of the work to do that before they even knew there was going to be a Patreon. That's the years, you know, the 15, the 20, the years that they spent building their brand. And, and then they reached this point and Patreon became a a tool that they could utilize because they earned that. But I think a lot of people come in and they see that and they think, "Oh, that's how you get big is you get the Patreon," but they got it all. It's ass backwards. No, the Patreon is a reward, not it's not a step in success. It's a reward from your success. So all these, all these guys that have been around, you know, and I know there's one guy I got in a big old argument with and, you know, his thing was, "Well, I've been doing this and I've been breeding animals and stuff." Yeah, but nobody [ __ ] knows. Like, you did that. Like, dude, I had, I had lizards when I was five too, bro. Like.

You know.

I technically.

Every day, dude.

Technically, I've been doing this for 34 years then, if you want to [ __ ] say that. All right.

But it's like, what, what is the footprint in the hobby? Because it doesn't matter what you've done. You can, I mean, anybody could show up and be like, "Hey, I'm, you know, this is what." There's no, there's no audience for that. So I, again, it's like, dude, you, this is not a step into success. You're not. And, and it's funny because I always say, this is my thing now, is that it's like the new sticker swap, because what ends up happening is everybody's got a [ __ ] Patreon and everybody joins everybody's Patreon. So it's just this giant web of Patreons and everybody's paying the fees for the Patreon. So it's like, bunch of circle jerks.

Yeah, dude. Exactly, dude. Just get, I'll join yours. Let me join yours. I'll join you.

You know, you know what you do? You just start a [ __ ] chat group on IG and invite a bunch of people in and say, "Hey," you know, and let them invite people and you guys share information for free.

Yeah.

And, you know, then I don't get it, man. It, it really, it really makes me wonder like, some of these people like, what, what they're really.

These people are about themselves, dude.

Chase. Yeah, it's a cloud.

These people want to look like something that they're [ __ ] not. It's, there's no, there's no other way around it. They are [ __ ] faking it. They're $3 bills. Okay. You cannot cash this at the store. These guys are not really doing what the [ __ ] they're acting like they're doing. And that's the only problem I see with this [ __ ]. It sucks.

Yeah. Then, and then you see him all over Instagram misiding [ __ ], giving bad advice, [ __ ], making claims that are like, just not like factual or possible. And it's just like.

I heard, I heard one of these [ __ ] trying to say on a podcast how you shouldn't feed emeralds big meals and all this [ __ ]. And I'm just like, and you have a [ __ ] tier on your Patreon to teach people about a [ __ ] boreals? Are you [ __ ] kidding me, dude? Like.

I can't imagine what the information is like for those animals, dude.

Oh, it's terrible for. I mean.

Niche as it is.

You're in a good place here, but goddamn. I have also put in the work, too.

It's also terrible. It's like a lot of friends that know what they're doing, too.

So, yeah, dude. You know, [ __ ]. I got the best in the game. But also though, like, it's like, dude, it, it, it's kind of also, man, it's, you're getting petty following, I feel like, off of it. Um, or even petty support, I feel like. And it's not going to last either. That petty support does not last. I'll tell you that right now. As soon as that sticker is not on that incubator anymore, that person's gone. Tell you right now.

Don't take your sticker off my incubator, bro.

Yeah, exactly. I'm gone. We're gonna say.

Patrons out there, people in Patreons, is said Patreon making you better?

Okay. If it is not, get the [ __ ] out, okay?

Cuz I mean, you're wasting your time.

Oh, that must be a Bears fan right there.

Shout out to.

If I was a Bears fan, I'd say the same thing. I can't, I can't hate him off for that, dude.

And honestly, dude, I'm low-key a cheese head. I'm not gonna lie. I've always like, I've been a huge Brett Favre fan majority of my life.

Yeah.

And why I always like, I remember back on any all the video games I always picked Green Bay because of [ __ ] Brett Favre. He was a, he was like the, he was like the [ __ ] uh goddamn, um, the the Brady back in that era, dude. Like, [ __ ] who was better than Brett Favre in that time, dude? He was the man.

He was, he was a psychopath too.

And yeah, he refused to slide. That [ __ ] did not slide.

He was a linebacker who could throw, dude. That's what he was.

It was epic. It was epic. He was exciting to watch, bro.

They're the real, they're the real America's team. Miguel.

Someone just said Bills. Jesus Christ. We got to end this. Just kidding. You know, it takes a lot to be a Bills fan. And I know because I'm a Raider fan. Everything I go through. Goddamn. All right. Four Super Bowl Super Bowls in a row and lost them all.

Yeah.

Boy. Boy, I love losing Super Bowls.

You ever heard that before?

Never. That's [ __ ] hilarious. Oh, that's the, I got, I got it. B I L.

Bills. Bills. Boy, I love losing Super Bowls. I'm a Dolphins fan, bro. So, we used to make fun of that [ __ ]. And a Niner fan.

The laces were in.

Yeah.

Funny. Um, I got to ask you, Jacob, are you going to stay around the 10 to 11 mark with your clutches? Is that going to be your happy, like your happy spot for now, or what's the game plan, uh, production-wise in the next few years?

I think next year it will be a jump, a jump probably, but then the following year I'll probably be down lower again because I, I'll probably have gotten rid of a lot of.

The females that I'm using this this coming season. So, I like I said, I'd like to be around. I think if I can do 20 with what I got with the amount of animals and stuff, I I can still stay on top of the projects and not overdo it. Not not uh, you know, it I the man, you said it, like room is so important, man. Like having space, having. And then, you know, it's not even like, you know, you get to a point where you fill racks up and then you have to buy a whole rack, and that's that takes up a lot of room. And sometimes you just cannot buy another rack. So, you know, I'm trying to stay within that four rack range right now with what I got. I got AR AR ARs uh racks and and I buy extra levels so I can go up. So mine go up almost to the ceiling.

That's a good idea.

They're like they're like 1090s or something.

Wow. I could do that to mine. That's a really good idea cuz I like I I got rid of one of my bigger freedom breeder racks, but I'm like, dude, I'm [ __ ] I feel like I It's like I don't need a whole another rack, but I could use just a little bit more space.

Yep.

Wow. I'm gonna look into that. I I could if I could add at least one or two more levels, that would really help a lot. I mean, I had to my my original snake room was like 110 square feet and I had four ARS racks and a 48 inch hotbox incubator in this room and I don't know how I managed to get it all in there but it worked. And and then like you said, I was like, I can't go anywhere else, so I'm going up.

So.

Yeah.

Yep.

How's um h overall? Because I feel like one of the things that I've done in my room personally, like I hate heat tape, dude. Like I after hearing all these [ __ ] hor horrific stories like Vin Russo just losing his goddamn collection, which wasn't due to heat tape, by the way. I will say that it wasn't actually due to heat tape, but just running heat just makes me stressed, you know? Um, but I like for instance, like don't run what I used to run five years ago. I don't I always have a 90 hot spot. Um, what I do really for the most part, everything is ambient in my room. Um, because on that side, my room gets like if I don't do [ __ ] on that side of the room, it gets to like 86, 87.

That's beautiful for.

Yeah. And and then and then if if a snake is gravid, I'll usually just turn that that level heat tape rack rack on and give them that extra heat and that that worked for me this year. Um, but what have you have you do everything still the same since you've learned uh everything out back in the day or have you made any adjustments? So, I was like one of those guys that like I had everything like all my levels. I I my humidity. I was I I was always checking everything. I But eventually I And Sebastian kind of helped me with this. He's like, "Dude, you're just you don't need to do all that, man."

Yeah. Not with ball pythons. You really don't.

Yeah. Yeah. Like so, so actually kind of this is a good actually a great question because uh, you know about the my situation and you know my life change that I had recently where and I had to move all my stuff.

Right.

Kind of abruptly and um, thank God for Matt Summers. Dude, what a.

Hey, we miss you, Matt. God, he might pop up. God damn it. You know, I always think.

I see him from time to time. So my snakes are my snakes are at his house and we and we set up. He's got a nice little garage. He's got like a little nook in his garage like away from the garage door, a little side area.

Yeah.

So, I got everything set up over there and uh.

Uh, last year I ran like an air cooler to try to keep it cool on a heater in the winter.

And it was a lot of work because I work nights. So, what I would do is uh, I would run the heater at night. So, when I get on my way to work, I turn it on. On my way home, I'd shut it off. And then the air was the opposite. I'd turn it off when I on my way to work, turn it on when I on my way home. Um, but this year I decided, you know what? I'm going to let it just ride and see what happens. Um, because there was a couple days where I didn't even put the the cool on or anything and everything seemed fine. So, this year I I let them go into the winter and I let the room get cool. They're still on heat on uh heat panels. They're still getting their heat. Um, that it probably got down to the mid to high 50s in there, I I would I would guess. Um, and then in the summertime too, now it's getting in the it gets into the 90s in there. I mean, this year has been pretty mellow summer-wise. It's just now starting to get actually really hot. Uh, but last year, like it would my thermostat would shut the heat tape off at a certain point in the day because it got so warm in there. Um.

So I just let it ride this year and the funniest thing happened is I used to get like a clutch every month and a half all year long and it just be like one clutch in the incubator at hatch and then I'd have another one coming and uh um, but this year everything everything was late, but everything went at like the same time. The bas the same basic like month and a half, two month time. So, I think that seasonal uh them filling the seasons that way like really actually kind of helped with my breeding this year and I'm probably going to continue to do that. We're building a a snake room over at Andrew Andrew just bought a new house. So, we're building a snake room over there.

Nice.

So, we're going to have both our stuff over there. Um, and his garage is even better insulated. Plus, it's going to be in its own room. We're building it into its own, you know, walled in ceiling room um with a mini split and all that stuff. But I mean, we I've been talking to him and I'm like, let's let's just let it ride. I mean, I feel like I feel like sometimes we overthink these animals. We forget that they live in [ __ ] Africa and you know.

Yeah. Or or trying to over control like what you want it to be. Like that's why like all these people for the most part who think like, well, they live in Africa and it's [ __ ] 100 degrees, but dude, they're under the ground. Like they're they're trying to avoid the heat as much as possible. Like right.

You know, like 90. Yeah, they'll do fine. But if you were to do a [ __ ] goddamn survey, if reptiles could if ball pythons could speak or or or write on a survey, they'd probably say, "No, thank you. I don't want 90 24/7." You know what I mean.

Right? And if they need the heat, they'll come out, they'll get the heat, and then they go back in when they get their heat. I mean, it's not like they're just living in it, you know? Or And that's another thing, too, about incubation, too, is like people are like really super anal about temps and stuff and everything. And like I mean, in the wild, you think it stays the consistent temp, you know, the entire time? No, it does not. It's impossible.

Ball pythons the ball pythons from what I've seen so far is the only [ __ ] egg you could literally soak with water droplets and it still hatches the distance.

Oh yeah. Justin doesn't even use trays. He just sits them right on there.

To me, bro. this this for this year. Actually, I I missed a couple uh uh lays, so I I couldn't break them apart. So, I just had to throw them on there, and I've had no problems. I even have one that's like pushing on the the pressing seal, and the pressing seal is just soaking wet. It's I'm going to be cutting that clutch in like three days. But, I mean, it's right up on it, and it's just dripping wet. Eggs 100%.

So, I got to ask you, don't you think the pressin seal step is unnecessary if it's that humid?

Um, you I I do think that you could do it without the press and seal, but I'm I would be concerned that you may it may dry out after a certain amount of time that you might have to add water because if it's not sealed all the way, I I I like having it sealed. What I'll do is I'll take the as soon as I as soon as I cut I'm the I'll take the press and seal off. That's usually what I do.

And it probably is one of those things though, dude. It probably is exactly one of those things that we do that we don't even really need to do, dude. I be I I'm telling you right now, you don't because I haven't done it in years. Like it's it's such a step I don't miss. I do not miss that [ __ ] stupid presidential step because I would always [ __ ] fight taking it off. I'll never forget. I'm like because I always wanted a perfect clean cut and they're all just torn the [ __ ] shreds. But I always hate I really hated it when it came to checking on the eggs cuz all the water and I'm like I remember panicking in the beginning like [ __ ] But then no, they always hatched and and you still see today people like, "Oh, day 52 and all this water." It's like it's just like, "Dude, are you are you having a monsoon in there?" [ __ ] cuz like, okay, let's be real. Let's I don't know. We don't see much evidence of a ball python clutch in the wild. But do you think there's raindrops dropping all over a ball python clutch, dude? No. I'm just saying we don't need that step. I'm telling you right now, the press seal is unless you have a [ __ ] super dry incubator and the humidity is [ __ ] really bad in there, you do nothing to make the humidity go up in your incubator, then yeah, keep the press seal. But if your humidity is pretty good in the incubator, dude, save yourself [ __ ] a couple steps and [ __ ] the pressin seal. I'll tell you right now, it's not it's not necessary.

You could also you could also really use a really big tub of water at the bottom of the incubator.

Yeah.

I mean, to keep that whole incubator real humid. I mean, there's little things you could do.

You just don't need it. I don't care what your I don't care what your steps are. Removing it before why even put it. Why? Why? Unless you must have time on your hands and I get it. But if you are trying to save yourself some time, you do not need the presency. Okay? It's just one less step you have to worry about. But I get it. People like the whole process. It's kind of like, man, you remember when you learned how to roll your first blunt, you know, and the whole process of breaking up the blunt and like.

I was just talking about this with with with [ __ ] Andrew, dude. Yeah, like.

Process, dude, about breaking it up because he wanted to use one of those little grinder things and I'm all dying. That's cheating, dude.

But you but you understand that like you enjoy the whole process and and that's why like people who do it, they just that's a process that they enjoy do it, but you just you don't need to do it. And and mind you, who why the [ __ ] you want all that water on your eggs? Like even though they make it and it's fine, it just dude I don't know. It's kind of reminds me of is like why cut that huge circle in that [ __ ] egg? You've been seeing some of these cuts lately, bro. They're like They're like this big. It's like someone took a machete just goes and just [ __ ] like tomahawks the top of it. And it's like.

And there's blood everywhere, too. That's what always gets me.

Oh my god. Like, guys, guess what? It's coming out. Relax. Like, whatever happened to cutting it, looking at it, and like, "All right, dude. I think I hit this. I think I hit that." People want to know right then and there. Why don't you just sex it while you're at it? Like, what the [ __ ] dude? It's [ __ ] the whole butchering thing, man. And.

Hey, man, you know what my thing is? You also don't have to separate the eggs unless the the chamber doesn't close.

I mean, that's my thing.

Oh, keeping them together.

I keep the eggs together till there's an egg like like Jacob was saying that is all up on the top of the the the chamber. You know what I mean? Uh, I I kind of like them to stay together. That's that's what I do. I don't like the whole separation. If you get those eggs late, bro, you're going to rip an egg. I got two clutches right now that I had to do that with.

Yeah. That shit's a pain in the ass.

Yeah. I normally I since I live in this goddamn room in a sense, I'm always catching the [ __ ] clutch when it's just dropped. So, it ain't nothing to put mine apart. Um, but.

In my house, too. I I never missed a clutch. It was.

Yeah.

But most people, they're working, you know, they're not home or whatever, they might catch an, you know, a clutch a day or two late.

You know.

Um, maybe three.

I mean, I I I don't separate them much at all. I like the stability. They get stuck together like like over like a 12-h hour period, man. If you don't get them out there, like I've done that where I've seen them laying on my way to work.

By the time I get back there like 12 hours later, it's they're done, dude. They're like they're not coming apart.

Yeah. Let me ask you this. Um, like for instance, Jacob, you have a female that lays back years for you. What are the chances of you still needing that female?

Man, it depends on the project. like like the DG clown stuff that I have like a lot of the double heads. I've been I've been slowly replacing those ones. I mean I I already I already have females right now that I'm looking at that I know this is like their last season. And so like but like in Monarch Clown I I have all my original animals still. I'm still I'm still using them. I don't have a lot grown up yet that's like could replace them. That's part of the reason. But.

Um, I'm trying to hold back as much as I can there. until I can hit that double visual male and then I'll then I'll be able to kind of go through what I got and I'll definitely be doing that there too. You know.

One of the things I learned, you know, because I you know, I went to go visit um Sebastian and goddamn it, what's his business partner's name?

Oh my god, not Joe.

I knew it.

Um, Nick. Nick.

No, no, it's uh is it Adam?

Adam? Yes. Goddamn. Sorry, Adam. What a guy. Really cool guys. But I went just got done visiting their place earlier in the spring. Um, and there were when I was vlogging in their their room, he was showing me racks that he had some of their bigger adult ball pythons in. And there there was it was like a two racks for like 30 slots each and he only had two big ball pythons left. He's like, MJ, a year ago, these were full. He's like, "Now, but they're all what we're doing is as soon as that female gets done laying like they they already have someone ready to buy that female in a sense. like they're they're methodically like cycling out females that just aren't going to have a game plan in that collection after that year for whatever reason. So, they don't even get to the point of having to house major big [ __ ] ball pythons because they're already sold by that time.

That's where I got got it from. That's where I got what I do from basically with that whole thing is, you know, Sebastian, you know, like he he he taught me a lot, man.

Yeah. No.

I can't say enough about how many time like I can't say it enough how much that guy's helped me.

Dude. Wealth of knowledge, man. Not only not only with ball pythons, but just the business side of things.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

The guy's a [ __ ] wizard, man. Knows his [ __ ] But also like, man, like I'm I'm in that position with ball pythons where I don't I don't see myself ever going past 15 clutches ever. Like 10 is probably going to be my bread and butter if I have it my way. But in order for that to happen and for me to work the projects that I have, I have to [ __ ] make sure that these females that I don't need are [ __ ] they're they're they're not here anymore. And actually helped me that with today. Not even not even intentionally hit me up and [ __ ] was able to send some of my way to take some of my proven girls that I don't actually have plans for for the next year. But like I should be thinking of that already. And I feel like if people do that themselves who are in that position of their breeding career, like dude, you're going to help out your overhead a lot. You know what I'm saying?

Oh yeah. Yeah. You got to keep You got to keep it moving. It's not.

Got to keep it moving.

You cannot. Yeah. Exactly. And you should be placing animals all the time. Like if you're not like the way I look at my season too at the end like if I I mean obviously the odds play in this and sex odds and all that sex ratio. But I feel like I should be replacing my breeder males every season. Like I think I should be making something that's better male because to me that's where you want it. Like I if I have the badass double triple visual male with bunch of kodoms, then all those double head females are still super valuable to me.

Yeah.

You know, so like that's that's for me it's about getting those males upgraded every season.

Yeah.

I'm trying to I'm trying to get my like my most potent stuff to be males and then have this those [ __ ] really just awesome incomplete dominant stack double heads and triple heads. For sure, dude. Sometimes it just doesn't Another thing that just doesn't work out your way. Like when you're rooting for like when you're shooting for one sex ratio because you need it, dude, you could go a whole stance of not hitting that. Like, like for me, I've always been female heavy, but dude, I could use some males at this point. Like, you know what I mean? And if not, I'm gonna have to go [ __ ] spend some cheese on a male. And that's another thing, too, right? Like, if you're not getting that male that you need, then you need to figure out to get whatever that you're hitting and get the money for that male. And that way it's all it's all worth it. Whatever you did that year, you know.

Right? Yeah. You've sometimes Yeah. Like I said, the odds will play a lot of that. Like I had a clutch last year that I really was wanting to hold back a lot of females from and it ended up being 10.1. So, and the one was like something I it was like a fire GHI clown that didn't prove out het DG or hypo or anything. So, it was like, you know, like and so I had a bunch of males that I do not need. I did get one male that was an upgrade though, but the rest were I mean instantly on more market.

Yeah.

For me, I'm picking up males this year. Males that that fit. Uh, I don't want females right now because I don't want to.

Yeah.

You know, unless it's something that really really makes sense. I I need something that's ready in a year.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm looking I'm looking to upgrade some mails. I'm actually looking to buy some stuff this year, too.

Need to We need to go fast. right now faster than ever, you know.

Yeah. Because you're going to get left behind. I mean, it's kind of where things are at with shed testing and where like how things are currently. It's not slowing down. It's speeding up.

We need to be ready for the next pandemic so we can all make a bunch of money again, dude.

I don't know, man. Uh, even then, I don't I don't think it would be the same. It's never going to be the same because a lot of these people who weren't expecting that money that got that money, I think it was so delusional where they thought like it was going to be forever like they were spending that money like it was always going to come in and but and because it got comfortable like that like dude honestly co's the only reason why I was able to say [ __ ] working 9 to5 I'm doing this for a living. Uh, because I was able to use that like whatever [ __ ] unemployment that was whatever that was happening during that time. I was able I was able to use the stimulants, right? I was able to use that as a crutch. But mind you, you having that with all the ball python sales that I had my first year that were just blowout [ __ ] I posted on my Instagram and boom, it was sold. Like.

On. Yeah.

Yeah, bro. But but also I didn't look at that income as like something to rely on. Like even though I was making good sales, I was like, "Oh man, I felt like I was just getting lucky." But I just didn't realize it was all COVID [ __ ] And and I never been a part of the ball python market. So I didn't know about spikes. I didn't know about drops. And when you don't know about the spikes and drops, you see something like what happened in CO and you think like, is this real life? Like is this is this this is how it is? And no one's really like who was really talking about Okay, let's think about this, right? I'm not trying to [ __ ] because it's everybody's fault in a sense. Who was really bracing us for the fall in 2020 and 2021? Like, who was like, "Hey guys, this is really, really good, but shit's gonna really drop here." Like, nobody was telling us that this was going to happen. And.

The opposite, too. I think it was like not spoke about at all.

No. And it was and it kept shoving like, "Yo, keep buying." Like.

Right. Right. Because it was an opportunity for a lot of people to make a lot of money, dude. Of course. You know.

Now let me say this to you guys. What could come in the future is an emerging market in Mexico.

China.

You know, maybe maybe China opens up.

You know, maybe another emerging Asian market that's growing.

Japan.

That's what we [ __ ] that's what we [ __ ] need.

I guarantee that will happen, bro.

And that is that is that is much more probable. Uh, this pandemic [ __ ] that's once in a hundred years. And guess what? With what we learned from this one, the government's not going to do the same [ __ ] again. No. [ __ ] no. Yeah, we're suffering for sure next time.

They're like, "All right, everyone gets free masks. That's about it."

That was the worst part, dude.

Now.

I almost got fired from a job for not wearing a mask.

Now, if all these countries start buying ball pythons, that's where prices could potentially go up a little bit again.

You know? I think Miguel's tapped into the Mexico market.

Yeah. He's building something.

Eventually, it's going to open up to all of us. Yeah.

We can't we can't ignore what Japan's doing and like other countries, bro, that are going to be doing stuff maybe better than us in a sense. Like I could tell you Japan [ __ ] ball python beaters already look like they they keep better than us. I'll tell you that much. Like the aesthetics, like how clean everything is. Like.

It is. It is.

It's like Louis Vuitton [ __ ] like holy [ __ ] Like and but it also gives you ideas like, you know, like we could really take things to the next level. So, yeah.

All it all it all matters to what we're talking about.

They're the most disciplined people on earth probably.

Hands down. Yeah.

Yeah.

Um.

If you litter in Japan, you go to Yo, if you litter in Japan, you go to jail.

Like immediately.

They have koiish in their gutters.

Yeah.

How [ __ ] dollar is that, dude? I don't know if that was AI, but I could have sworn I was high one night. I was on Instagram and someone's like on the streets of Japan and they like they go down to a gutter that like has like the gr like the guard of a gutter but it's like literally just all these beautiful koiish just swimming in the water and the water's crystal clear and I'm like what? And in America all we got in our gutters is fentinol dude. [ __ ] what a ripoff dude.

And we stolen sunsets.

Yeah. Oh lord.

Oh my god, dude. This is epic. Um, okay. Um, I want to get back to Monarch real quick. I mean, are you happy currently with with Monarch and where it's at?

Um, yeah. So, another thing that kind of never is talked about too.

I can hear you. Keep talking. I can hear you.

A lot of people get into projects and uh, you know, scarcity in a project like something that hasn't been worked a lot is an is is an appealing thing. If you can get into that project, it usually comes with a higher price tag. But there's a flip side to that too where it's like how many people are working it. So, you're not unless you're creating new customers into a project, you're selling to a lot smaller, you know, group of people. So, you you've got to take that into consideration too. Like uh, I'm I'm really uh, I really like the way that most of the Monarch people that are known for you know, Monarch, I mean uh, Sebastian um, there's there's there's there's a bunch of us that are like, you know, Maddox Morphs, he's pushing Monarch big time. Um, and he does a really good job too of promoting uh Monarch too. I know he's, you know, he's really out there doing his thing with it. And uh, you know, I I think that they've done a real good way job of marketing it and kind of keeping it tight. It is it is a lot more of a niche project. So, there's not a lot of, you know, it's definitely not going to suffer the DG clown dilemma.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I I want to see I want to see Monarch, uh, Monsoon, Monarch Puzzle, Monarch Sunset, Monarch uh Black Pastel Acid Clown.

Yeah.

Um, [ __ ] like that. I can't wait to see this stuff. I I fell in love with uh um Dark Knight Monarch clown at Justin's.

Oh god.

I want to see more [ __ ] like that.

I I got a clutch coming. I can make I can't make a Dark Knight, but I can make Batman monarchs. So, we'll see.

Okay. What What do Okay, how do you Okay, I guess it depends on the pairing, but that's also something that can't be easy to hit.

What a a dark knight.

Yeah, a monarch Monarch Monarch Dark Knight.

Well, right. Yeah, but I mean just a Yeah, just a Dark Knight in general. Like popping those jeans like Yeah. I mean, unless you got supers, but.

Yeah. All right. Can we talk about lace?

Yeah, I love lace.

Yeah. What What do you think about the whole uh controversial topic of lace and GHI that RGI put out? I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.

The funny thing about that is like I was a part of that and I didn't even know. So, I had I had a uh GHI redstripe clown head DG that I paired to a lace double hat. And it was her first year going uh small clutch. I think I got five eggs and and one was like didn't have good veins. It went bad. Um, I got a really cool lace DG head clown male that's going to be breeding here pretty soon. I'm excited about that. Um, but I hatched out this animal that was a really dark, beautiful ghi. Uh, not no visual uh DG or clown, but just a regular GHI, but it was really dark. Um, I thought maybe it was just because it was a new hatchling. Um, wasn't quite sure. I sent it in to Charlie. So, Charlie was tinkering with lace at the time. He was trying to like get it like nailed down, but he wasn't like there yet. I've been working with a lot of other guys and stuff and and, you know, lace, there was a big problem because uh, I think a lot of these jeans, they're going to have the same problem. Mandarin lace. There's so many animals out there that are being called lace and have been bred for like five, six years that aren't lace. So, you've got generations of animals out on the market that aren't lace that have been called lace for five years. So, like it's going to be a problem. So, that was kind of the problem I think Charlie was having was getting animals that were actually lace.

Right?

Um, so he he tested that animal and it came back as white lace. So, this set off all kinds of [ __ ] So, now I'm like, well, [ __ ] maybe this I got that uh that mail was from Miguel. So, I was thinking, well, I'll hit up Miguel. So, I talked to Miguel a little bit. He's like, you know, I don't know anything about whether it's got lace or not. I used to have the he he showed me a picture of the mom. I think it was from Justin. Um, and then the sire was from Justin, too, I believe. But, uh, he was saying that it did they looked a little brighter, but he didn't think there was lace in it. So, we're we're testing animals and I'm I'm contacting other breeders that have the that now have the dame of my male and they're sending in sheds and everything's coming back negative for lace. So, like Charlie's like, "Fuck Lace. It's it's a nightmare. We're never going to figure it out. I'm [ __ ] done." And, uh, so then I didn't hear anything about it. And then he basically told me, uh, he recalibrated his test and that my animal was just a single copy of Lace.

Um.

Wow.

Then I didn't hear anything about it for like two months, three months. And then like right around the time that they were getting ready to announce it, I got a message from him. He's, "Hey, I can tell you why you're animal tested white lace." And I was like, "Okay." He's all, you know, basically I can't tell anyone. So, I couldn't tell anyone, but he told me about how there's they think they're a leic that the the location of GHI and lace are so close together that when they he didn't have the test for GHI. So, he only was testing for lace, but it was showing it really close together like it would if it was a white lace. And then RGI had GHI, but they hadn't done the lace thing yet. So, it was like it was just a matter of them coming kind of coming together and figuring it out together. Like it took a while, but it honestly it bums me out because my whole intention was to make white lace GHI uh DG clowns and now if they're a leic that that's not going to happen. So, but the animal's beautiful. You used it on the thumbnail. That thing is insane. It's beautiful. It's crazy. I think it's it's definitely better than what like a single copy of lace would do to an animal. There's something going on with that thing. And the more it sheds and the bigger it gets, the darker and cleaner and it gets and the more the white on the sides is really starting to like kind of rise up and get more intense with each shed. So, I'm I'm excited about that. But, um, yeah, lace lace has been a [ __ ] crazy gene, man. And then like you're hearing a lot of stories of people that have got a lot of lace out there that's not testing for lace and.

Well, because it's not an easy thing to look for. Like I mean, it it's and even today like I had something where I thought it was one thing and then it just kept questioning where like, oh, we don't even know if lace is in there. Remember we talked a little bit.

Especially in that combo, something like that.

Hot nose and [ __ ] Yeah.

Yeah. And then everything else too. You're saying it's possible yellow belly and.

Yeah.

Well, I don't know what what else is in that. Uh, it's just so it's just uh, it's yellow belly. No, no. Fire. No. Yellow belly, spot-nose, lace, yellow. Did I say yellow belly already? Yellow belly, lace, spot-nose clown.

And the pairing had stranger in or something, too. And you?

Yeah. So, the dad Yeah. So, the the dad was a stranger, yellow belly, spot-nose, het clown, and then the mom was a lace double head clown hypo.

Gotcha. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, like in that combo like that, it would probably be a little bit tougher, especially right out of the egg, man. It's it's kind of like the DG thing, dude. When you're when you get them out of the egg, man, I see so many people like celebrating a DG in the egg and I'm like like I kind of I've hatched enough to where I can look at an animal in the egg and I I can tell if it's DG or not, like pretty quick. But but like we talked also earlier today, like there would be no question if it was white lace, right? Because white lace, it's like it's like and it's like is that the way we just got to look at the lace project the same way we look at asphalt and gravel by themselves? Like.

I think so. I think so because it's not I mean, I I think a visual lace is not even as expressive as like a yellow belly is a yellow belly.

They age good. I'll tell you though the Joel okay.

The female I got from Joel and it could be an influence which I'm realizing that some snakes age good because of their their double head or triple head. Um, but also like I'm looking at the sides like the like the flames like there's these white flames that are just growing on this female. She's not a very big girl, but goddamn she's only getting better with age. And so, um, yeah, I just can't I'm hoping that snake I hatched out first and foremost has lace and it's a male because I'll put his ass right back to the mom. And that's what I want is to put it back that put him back to the mom and hopefully he comes back at hypo too if it is a he. I gota just exit. I don't know why I just exit.

Yeah. People need to remember too when we're talking about DG, we're talking about d two it could be domin.

Two sets of DG, right? And when you're talking about lace, you're talking about a single copy. So, like if you're going to compare it to DG, it has to be white lace. has to be white lace.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, and I mean, lace still looks great. Like that lace double head girl I have, she's like 3,500 gram. She's she's super super dark.

Super crisp.

Yeah.

But it's not not a huge expression though, like you're not you see a little bit on the the main thing for me on those is is the blushing on the head.

Right?

Stamp.

Uh, compared to how dark the dorsal is. It's that's that's like the main thing that I look for.

Popcorning that people think is is lace. It does a little popcorning, but it really popcorns with yellow belly. And I think yellow belly actually popcorns a lot more than.

You. You've you've obviously made some DG clown combos in your time. So imagine that DG clown combo is like the bold blackness it has that first year of its age, right? I was able to see a white laced clown in person compared to a DG [ __ ] clown. And the white lace ages way better than a DG clown does.

Oh, I I believe it.

Pattern wise, it's not a pattern.

DG does. I mean, DG's really clean and really nice, but it also I've seen some really dirty DG clowns, man.

Like you would you would I I can see it's DG, but that's there's so much dirty speckling in the scalation that like it's just like I mean, it's not it's not good looking.

I mean, I guess it's cleaner than a regular clown, but um, yeah, I I definitely think that that white lace has a a better like in-game look. I I definitely do that. I think that and of course it depends on the combos too. Like I mean DG clown with certain things, man, it's.

I see I'm getting to the point now where I don't even want to talk about DG clown unless we're throwing hypo in the mix because.

That's to me that's the that's what DG with hypo that's.

That's what matters you want. Yeah. And that's going to be a [ __ ] amazing looking snake when it's old too. Yeah.

That you talk about something that holds that hypo and DG together, man. And even in clown, out of clown, and nether combos, like I have a couple, dude, they're they're amazing. And.

And it was crazy just DG hypo clown by itself is such a [ __ ] eye candy thing to look at. Like it's.

It is very [ __ ] eye appealing. It really is.

It is.

Um, how far how far are you from hitting any triple stuff? Um, Jacob. Oh, I have I I can hit I can possibly hit a quad this this next season.

Oh, what is it?

So, I have I have my So, my you know, I remember my cousin got in and he had some crazy life changes with everything and he got in a situation where he just he he didn't have the time anymore. So, I took over. He had a small collection, but it was a very nice collection. So, he had a male he picked up from Justin that was a hypo clown doublehead DG Pi. And um, last year I made I made a couple of uh I have a couple holdbacks from that. They're they're uh DG hypo double heads found pides. They're growing up. But I have I actually got it from JP. My cousin got it from JP. I told him to get it because JP had it on there for such a cheap price. The code suck. I'm going to tell you right now. Don't judge me. It's pinstripe leopard.

I said don't judge him.

Sorry. No, but hates pinstripe. So anyway.

I I do too.

Emilio me about pinstripe. It was terrible.

But she's visual DG head hypo clown possible head pi. So it would basically be everything that's head on this side is going to a visual on this side and vice versa. So it's like a pretty good chance that I hit, but I'm not expecting it. But it'd be nice.

It's still great. It's, you know, great animal.

If if it doesn't hit pinstripe. I don't mind.

I mean, even if [ __ ] it. Even if you hit, you know.

Yeah. I mean.

It's not It's not terrible like some of the other [ __ ] that people deal with, you know.

It's definitely not one of the worst. I'll tell you that.

It's definitely an endgame animal, though. There's not much more you're going to do except add color to it.

Yeah.

Like monsoon. Oh, did I say that?

I love monsoon. Sorry.

Oh, okay. We got Okay, Jacob starting fire. Okay.

I love I love a 20k monsoon with no eye stripes. I'm I'm just going to say that right now, dude.

Whoa. Can you break that down for me? A 20k monsoon without eye stripes. What is.

Monsoon clown.

A 20k monsoon. Okay.

Yeah. So, a monsoon with no eye stripes would be a monsoon clown. So, you're paying for no eye.

You know what? It's already It's a nice.

It's a really nice animal.

I'm just kidding, dude. I'm just kidding, dude. Don't kill me. Don't kill me.

No. I'm just saying I really like it, bro. I think.

I like it too, but it's you got people need to understand how you utilize stuff like.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

I love it. I love it. Who.

Has utilization for sure. I think you put it to like you were saying earlier, put it to Monarch, put it to Sunset, even put it to something, put it to different color jeans.

But I think it, you know, there's certain things that are just super busy.

Yeah.

And then there's jeans that are just not very strong, like puzzle. But, uh, that's a whole another topic, too. What? Hey. Hey. It's all about what you.

I just [ __ ] pissed off like 80% of the [ __ ] community.

We were we were messaging back and forth before the show and I'm like, "Yo, you don't like puzzle?" And he's like, "I'm like, what, bro?

Let me Okay, my my group chat knows this about me.

Kyle's happy right now. Kyle Hoff.

Yeah, you know, Kyle, if Kyle's Hey, Kyle's wrong about a lot, but he's [ __ ] right about Puzzle. Let me tell you Let me tell you about Puzzle. So, Puzzle's another gene that needs to be utilized properly, dude. Yeah.

And uh.

And and I I do enjoy puzzle, dude. Uh, Will showed me a picture the other day of some crazy ass puzzle he made and it's just like simple jeans, too. It's like pastel fire OD or something and it's the best puzzle I've ever seen in my life. Um, but I think that I've seen so many combos um, with puzzle where I'm I look at it and I'm like and you know, there's maybe there's maybe on a on a rack at a show, there's there's three or four different examples with different genes and I'm not seeing the variation that I want to see from an animal that I'm going to use as a base for my projects. Don't get me wrong, I mean, you still do a ton of [ __ ] with it. You can put it in hypos and DG and all the the color changing genes. Like I that's what I want to see it in. But I again, I think the problem isn't the gene. It's the it's the way that some people in the hobby utilize it.

I've been saying this on this podcast since for two years. My puzzles have to have puzzle pieces on the body on the dorsal on on you. I cannot work with puzzles that don't have puzzle pattern. If.

Monsoon, right?

Huh? Like monsoon. I need to have the monsoon pattern.

Yeah. So, so guess what? You can only do so much with that.

No. And that's fine. But that's why I like monsoon. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have plenty of pattern. And I'm going to work monsoon and I'm going to work puzzle. And my puzzles are going to be tricked out and they're going to be like the ones that Will posted this week. They're phenomenal. You know, the black pastel hypo puzzles. Phenomenal. That's what I want in my puzzle projects. I'm not gonna destroy the pattern and and and and then say the animal's beautiful. I'm not doing that.

Right. And then because it's got hypo or DG or or Wookie or something else in it, it has this outrageous price tag. But it's like, look at the animal, man.

Yeah.

Rather have Will's animal at, you know, at that price. I'd rather pay that that much more for Will's animal than I would for something like that. I think one of the delusional paintings Puzzle has painted to a lot of people in this hobby is how like puzzle is way more powerful than clown. Like, you want to say go puzzle, [ __ ] clown, which is wild.

There's a weird. Yeah. To me, that's where that's where it all goes south for me, dude. That's where.

Clown has proven itself year after year and is still a such an important recipe. Like, especially again, if you're talking about pattern and doing something you don't expect to hit, bro. Sorry. There's no there's no puzzle taking over the clown. That's ridiculous.

Never, never going to happen.

Always has been ridiculous when I heard that.

Yeah.

But but it's strong and it's it has an amazing market. It's a beautiful animal. But.

I'm not Kyle Hoff. I like I like puzzle.

Why are we comparing it to? Why? Why do we need to do that?

Right. Yeah.

It's because people want to feel better about not getting it. That's why that's the only reason people. The same way there was a whole yellow belly everything error. Really? Yellow belly everything? You really want to think about that before you continue on your your whole. Let me. It's because that's what you have and I get it. You want to put it on a pedestal, but let's kind of be practical here, folks. Like, it doesn't work out like that. And that's why I'm glad you did bring up puzzle and monsoon. It's awesome projects, but they are limited, dude. You're going to hit a you're going to hit a certain point where you're like, "God damn it, I don't like how that looks."

Well, look at Lavender. Look at that lavender albino. I mean, that was a hot gene like three, four years ago. That was a big project. Musical [ __ ] and people were throwing. But I mean, I don't ever I don't ever see anything from that project anymore.

Good point.

I mean, I mean, Justin puts stuff out and it's like, but and it's real bright and it's real orange and it's cool, but it's not.

It leading. It ain't leading projects.

Right? You're not taking it too too many places after that.

It's it's uh uh I think lavender is primarily uh a Pi project now.

Right. Pi Pi is another one, dude. Let's be real. Pi's another one. You're just killing the pattern. So, like, what what's the point of putting pattern into an animal if you're just going to lose the pattern?

Yeah.

You know?

What do you think? What do you think of anyone out there passionately working a puzzle clown project?

Good night and good luck.

Just. Hey, I'll say this because I have a friend.

I don't talk to those people, dude. I don't talk to those people. That's what that I wouldn't say.

I have a friend that's on that mountain and the flag he's putting that flag. I I wish him the best and I hope he changes my mind.

Oh, I got friends doing it, too. I'm kidding.

Yeah.

Hey, I I think if somebody. Let's just put it this way. If somebody does crack that.

They're they're going to have a statue built Tinley, dude.

Yeah.

Straight up.

Not dude, not everyone sees the same [ __ ]. That's why like at the end of the day, if you like how something looks to you, [ __ ] what anyone else like what the masses say.

Like.

And and people rewarded. Like, dude, the ball python game even reward you if you stay true to [ __ ] like that and it does turn out and if it doesn't, it doesn't. But if you're making [ __ ] doesn't matter.

This game is unstoppable, dog. Because look, like right now, I'mma tell you [ __ ] right here, right now. I can't wait to see a sunset exantic and a sunset exantic pi with hypo. And you guys could [ __ ] laugh at me. I don't give a flying [ __ ].

Say that. Say that one more time.

Sunset exantic and sunset exantic pi with a little bit hypo. I can't wait to see that. But y'all could laugh at me. I don't care.

I'll I'll make lavender pinstripes for your mouth.

Y'all could laugh at me. But you know what? If it's badass, it's badass, man. And.

I like that he knew that we were gonna laugh at him.

Hey, if it's ugly, if it's ugly, I'mma come on here and I'mma say, "Yo, this shit's ugly."

But that's that's another thing, too. I was actually thinking about that earlier, like because I saw someone posting something and I was like thinking, why would you want to put sunset with athic? And then I was thinking about it. I was like, "Well, what if it, you know?" Then I was like, "What?" And like, see, that's why you would do it because you start going, "Well, what if?" And the next thing you know, you're dropping 10K in a project.

And.

I mean, that's what we're doing, bro. We got to take risks sometimes, you know?

Yes. It's partly that.

Sacrifices must be made and they're they're going to be made. And I feel like just like Sunset as a whole, there will be a project and there already been examples. I've seen some Sunsets out there that are like they're blowing my mind. It's just not an easy feat, right? And and and if you want to talk about Exantic's not that easy either. Like, there's some, oh, no offense, man, but there's some ugly cocka lines of Exantic out there.

No, for sure.

And it's like, and if that's your line that you're holding tight on, I'm sorry, man. All these years of you putting it into a kaka line, it's just not going to work on your favor. You got to focus on what the right lines are. Um, so, God bless if you have the right sunset line and the right exantic line. I just don't see it, dude. I I cannot wait for someone to show me and I'm like, "Look at this piece of shit."

I got an exic female that's like 2500 grams that looks like she still looks exanthic. She looks really good.

I've seen some Amelia showed me some good charcoal looking ones. Like they all don't not saying they all look like that, but I'm saying like, you better have a good line of it.

There's a lot of that looks brown like that though. I mean.

Yeah.

Just go on North Market and look up exanthic, you know? No other jeans or whatever. Just look at like normal exantics and you'll I guarantee you like 70 70% of them are going to be browned out.

Yeah.

People don't know how to take pictures either and they take pictures at the wrong time.

Any animal could look bad at any time.

Get your feet out of the way. God damn.

Yeah. So.

Those those are great.

And then some of them aren't even axanthic.

Yeah. Well.

You wouldn't be able to tell either. So.

Yeah. Come on, man. And also, you're not fooling anybody by leaving out pastel and other [ __ ] that we know.

Oh, yeah. That's another one.

Yeah.

Someone's like, "Don't just put the recessives that are in there." You're like, "Whoa, why is my head so white?"

Yo, this game. Hey, this game's wild, bro. You got some [ __ ] funny ass people doing this [ __ ] bro.

Hey, it's all egos, man. It's all it is. And and and it's a normal thing with human. Like, we want to have like we're at the end of the day, we're doing this because we want to have [ __ ] to be proud about. And you know, it's it's cool to be proud about what you work with, but you just got to do it right. And it's and sometimes you're going to go through some [ __ ] to get to the [ __ ] you know, the end result, but it's never ending, dude. This game will I'm getting humbled this year for sure by the ball pythons. Um, only just by not hitting what I thought I was going to hit. And it's fine. It's part of the game, dude. It Listen, every now and then, every every now and again, you got to get your ass whooped. You know what I mean?

It's fine.

It's fine. That's the way I look at it.

It's all. It's all the process, man. Like.

The building's burning behind you. It's fine. I'm okay.

You're you're okay.

All right, let's be okay.

Wrap-up topic of tonight. Two hours blew by quick, bro. Um, but yeah, my wrap-up question before we get to Amelio's Jacob is uh maybe somebody out there listening who's already a couple years in and maybe they're hearing a lot of the negative stuff but are unsure. What do you have to say to anyone out there who's like, and let's say it is somebody with a who's meant to be in this game but they're just they're unsure about the long term things. What would you say to that individual out there, Jacob?

Well, definitely start a Patreon. That's the first thing you do.

And then one tier 150.

And then go and make like 5,000 shirts.

God damn.

And charge for them. Charge for them. Remember, you gotta charge for the shirts. Don't forget.

Yeah. Like like 35, 40 bucks.

Oh my [ __ ] god. Like, who the [ __ ] wants your shirt?

There's still people that. There's still people that for like three or four years have gone all around the country with their [ __ ] shirts going to end caps asking [ __ ] the vendors to put on their shirt to take a picture with them.

Bro, this [ __ ] is [ __ ] wild. Like.

Oh man.

Oh god. But yeah, do you have Okay, I'm I'm just. But seriously.

Yeah, please.

I would say I would tell somebody to take their time and I like I said, like spend a lot of time like just go on Morph Market to look. Go on these group chats, get involved in the community. Uh, you know, ask questions, you know, but don't be telling people what to [ __ ] do because that's probably one of the other things that.

That really [ __ ] people up in the beginning too. They create a bad image by.

By telling too much when they don't have the the knowhow, you know, yet. But.

God damn.

Stay in your lane. Learn as much as you can. Soak in as much as information as you can. Make sure you're you're surrounding yourself with people that have good intentions that aren't trying to like, you know, scrape money off of you. Like, it's tough. It's hard in the beginning like that. Like, I I think about like that back then I didn't know anybody, man.

Like I I just had chats with people. I didn't I don't even I think I I didn't even meet had I even met Antoine at that point when I met you at Delmare. I think that's when I first met Antoine, too. And And Andy. So, like, I didn't know anybody. Like, you kind of have to take that leap and for some people that's not easy, but you got to get out there, man. If you if you want to. And I'm not even talking from a business aspect, even just from like being a part of the community aspect, you know, it it's important, man. You can't, you know, utilize the tools that you have. Utilize Instagram. Utilize uh, you know, uh, YouTube. There's tons of information out there. A lot of it is [ __ ], but there is information out there that you can get and that will help. Can I give myself a reach around real quick because I think this is accurate?

All right, go ahead.

Pretty sure you.

I'm pretty sure Trap Talk or Trap brought you to Antoine and Andrew because we were all together in a group back in the day when this all started. You remember that?

Yeah, I do remember that. I I Yeah, because I mean, like I said, like I reached out to you like and was like, "Hey, are you going to Delmare? I'd like to, you know, hang out and get to know you." And you're like, "Yeah, man." And I knew you smoked and I smoked. So.

Oh, yeah. We smoked. That wasn't art. Yeah, that wasn't that wasn't art. But uh, yeah, I met I met Matt that time for the first time, too.

Yeah. God damn it, Matthew. Matthew Summers. What a guy. All right. Hey, pick me. What do you got for Jacob?

All right. So, pretty much what's that one animal you could hit this season where you're like, "Okay, this season was a [ __ ] success."

That's easy, man. Uh, Batman monarch. I I've been trying to hit that. So, my male can make that with every single female that I have. I mean, I've been trying to hit that with like four females for three years now. And last year, all of my monarch females all took the year off. Every single one of them. I didn't I didn't have a single egg from a monarch last year. So, this year, they're all laying. They two of them, one of them's laid, one's ovulated, one's coming. So, that that to me is like the crowning jewel of 2025. If I can hit that, I don't I don't care what happens to everything else.

Nice. Who else has hit that besides Justin?

Oh, I'm sure there's been. I mean, that exact combo. I'm not sure actually. I mean.

A lot.

Probably not.

Yeah.

And that would and it would be a whole. I mean, I don't know, bro. If it was a female, I might I might sell it, dude. But if it's a male, it's staying there and like there's no question. Wait a minute. Okay. Okay. Hold on. Let me ask you guys a question real quick. So, I hit something that I really. Okay. One of the things I really wanted to hit this year and I'm happy about is a female. Should I sell it because it's not a male? I'm confused.

Well, it depends on the project and what you're trying to do. Like my my thinking is is that that females. I mean, it'll be good. It'll be great to have that female in like two, three years and and and.

That's a lot of time though.

Conservatively, we'll say four years because I mean, I've had females that don't go for like five years, man.

Yeah. Four four three to four zone has been my my sweet spot.

Right? That's when you just. I mean, maybe it happens at two if you're lucky, but that I've in my experience it happens sometimes, but it doesn't happen enough to say that you can rely on it. Um, so I mean, in that situation, I I would see it as an opportunity to to get get funds for to put something into something else. While something like that is has a lot of value, um, the male is like, you know, next year it's breeding and I already have all the females lined up ready for it. So.

I mean, it it it all depends. Like it it I I'm don't get me wrong, I should hold that back, that animal. I know I should hold it back. I'm being [ __ ] stupid. But, um, I don't know. It didn't It served me well at DG Clown, man. I'm I I made a lot of money off DG Clown in my first like two years of breeding. Yeah, like like 2022 was.

A great year for me.

I haven't even achieved I haven't even achieved what I made in 2022. I haven't made in the last two years.

I also haven't produced as much. But.

But like it served me well and I'm still in a great spot with that project and I'm still making crazy [ __ ] and.

It's just getting better and and I'm not.

Again, back to the process. I'm not I'm not in a hurry, man. I'm not I'm not really in a hurry. Like, you know, I did hit a monarch clown. I think I've told some people this. I did hit a monarch clown. It died in the egg back in uh 2023.

Uh 222. Um, that that's like the thorn of my that's like when when Amelia asked me the question like that's that's what I want to hit. If I don't hit it this year, I Okay, next year we'll do it again.

Well, you know what? You know what? I think no matter what, I think that Batman monarch, you'll probably keep it.

I probably will.

Yeah.

I'm just I I'm just uh talking [ __ ].

Yeah. But in the chat says you're saying that because you don't have it yet.

Yeah. No, that's that that No, that's exactly what Yeah, that was my point. Like it's like Yeah, I say that now.

But um I know and I know I should keep it. I know I know how stupid I am. Everybody, you don't have to tell me.

No, I mean that's what all of us, bro. We're all thinking crazy [ __ ] you know.

I know. Yeah, I know. But I mean, what could something like that fetch right now?

Yeah.

Never know. Never know. That's what's also crazy, too. It's like, yeah, the market's what it is, but if you have that right [ __ ] snake.

You know what I mean? Price price still don't mean much to a lot of those [ __ ] out there. There's some deep pockets out in the game still. Oh my god. You know what I'm saying?

There's always. There's always that animal, too, that comes out, bro. There's always that animal that comes out where it's like you don't even have to put it for sale.

You're gonna get offers for that animal and you're gonna I mean, people will pay you. I've heard stories people paying 50, 60, 70, 80k for an animal that probably market value might have been 30k, but it nobody else has it. Like this is what an opportunity. They're willing to put that money because they know what what they're going to get in return.

Y and that will always be a part of what we do. Like there's always that that part of the realm of like what feeds this hobby. It's the big sharks like that. You know what I'm saying? The one the risk takers, you know?

But man, great episode. I appreciate it. We do got these round two hot tea questions for you before we let you go.

Um, are you cool with that? Because you don't have a choice anyway. So.

Yeah, I'm good.

All right, guys. Do me a favor. Hot tea question card part of the episode. Let's get the likes up, please. This was a great episode. We had just about shy of 100 people the entire time. All right. This was we had we had quite quite the crowd. So, let's get the likes up, please, before we end things tonight. Uh, Jacob, you know how these work, man. The quicker the better, right?

All right, I'll try.

Here we go. Hot seat questions coming in hot. Here we go. First thing you would feed a baby ball python.

Uh, fuzzy.

Uh, one thing you would feed an adult female breeder ball python.

Small rat.

How often?

Once a week.

Least favorite incomplete dominant? Pastel. One underrated recessive out there. [ __ ] Not puzzle. [ __ ] I don't know. Uh [ __ ] Hypo, dude. Hypo. Still [ __ ] underrated.

All right.

Uh, what's one reptile show you would love to vent that you haven't vent yet?

Tinley.

All right. Um.

That's easy.

Tinley. So Tinley is like a big goal of yours. It just be cool. All right.

Be cool. Like do that whole thing. I' I've only vented like in my own backyard. So.

All right. Besides what you said, what you could hit this year, what is a must [ __ ] ball python project you you have to hit within the next three to four years?

Oh [ __ ] Uh, well, I'd like to hit a multi-cod DG clown paint.

Oh [ __ ] Okay. Give me give me an incomplete dominant. One would that that would.

Oh man, something like that with what I got. I would say like a ghi spot nose red stripe.

Damn.

I got I got hurricane in the project, too. That'd be sick.

How did Has anyone made Has anyone made any blackhead paint stuff yet? I'm curious what Blackhead and paint would do to each other.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure uh uh Danny Portuguese pythons. Oh [ __ ].

I know. I know. I I actually have a a hat blackhead yellow belly hat paint from him. a female that I bought six months ago.

Emo, take this home, buddy.

All right, man. Keep one. You have to keep one. Okay.

All right.

Monarch or DG?

[ __ ] Oh, dude.

Two loves.

It's like, but it's also utilization. Oh, man. DG. DG.

Really?

Yeah.

I can do more with DG.

Wow. I'm surprised.

It's true. Keeping it real.

All right. DG or hypo?

Yes.

Yes. What?

Yes. DG and hypo.

Both. Both, please.

You're gonna You're gonna take a shot. Okay.

I'm gonna take If I had to choose one, I'd still take DG.

Oh.

Yeah.

Uh, Stranger or Cypress?

Oh, god. Dude, that's like my favorite jeans, dude. H Stranger.

Hurricane or Lace?

[ __ ] dude. He's hurt, man. H if in those forms, Hurricane.

All right. So, now I'm going to give you four four base projects. And I know you don't work them, but you have to pick two.

All right.

All right. Monsoon, Sunset, Puzzle, and Zebra. Which two are you picking?

Monsoon, Sunset, Puzzle, and what was it? Zebra. [ __ ] I Man, I probably pick uh Monsoon and Zebra. Damn. Okay. All right. So, I'm going to give you these three codes. It's actually four, but to me, it's three. All right. And you're going to pick two. Stranger acid/confusion and blackhead. Pick two.

Uh, stranger acid.

Okay, that's all I got, brother.

Are you building me the perfect snake or what?

No, you just you just weren't the easiest person with these hot seats, dude. But you picked all But those were like the hardest [ __ ] questions to answer, dude. Like, you're like, which which one do you like best? Your two favorite jeans. Go. No, no. It's it's it's like it's making decisions.

You know, at the end of the day.

You know. You have to decide what's more important to you. That's it.

Feel like I could have answered.

That's what I'm doing.

I'm putting your feet to the fire.

It hurt. It hurt.

Yeah.

Hey, great great round two, bro. Great to have you back here. Um I know this won't be the last time for sure. Um so, what do you have to say to anyone out there who tapped in that really enjoyed tonight's episode? Like I said, just shy of 100 people the entire time. So, we got to say for all the love and respect you got out there, bro.

All right, but before I do that, I just wanted to say something. Have you ever noticed that Dave Leon looks like the illegitimate love child of Justin Cabela and Gallagher?

What?

Dude, look at Dave Levenson in the face.

What?

He does not look like a mix between Gallagher and Justin Cabela, dude.

I see Gallagher, but I don't understand how they.

Eyes. He's got the Justin Cabela eyes, dude.

Oh my god. He has the Kabulka eyes. Kabula does not have eyes like [ __ ] Dave Leonson, bro.

Right now is doing the.

It's not necessarily the eyes. It's It's the look.

I'm pulling it up right now.

Next time you look at him. Yeah. Next time you look at him, you'll see it. You'll see a little Cabela in that.

Well, here's here are some eyes right here for us to look at. Um Oh, wait. I can't even pull it up.

Oh, here it is. Yeah. Hold on. Hold on one second. Let me pull this. I I definitely see Gallagher, dude. Like I could [ __ ] I could I I completely see Gallagher.

Okay, so imagine Justin dressing up like Gallagher. And that's Dave Levenson, dude.

Yeah. I feel like people only watch Dave's podcast just to see him stare into the [ __ ].

That's the same look that Justin looks at his [ __ ] white legs with, dude.

Jesus Christ. Hey, happy belated birthday Dave Leonson. Um, Milio just left. Why [ __ ] it?

Handle this [ __ ]. The eyes. Okay. Now, what do you have to say to the people who rock with you out there now?

Hey, appreciate you guys tuning in. I got a great circle. I got it keeps getting bigger and uh appreciate all the love and appreciate you guys. And MJ, it's been a long road, man. Like you said, we had ups and downs, but it's it's it's always been just, you know, day one, you know. It's all love, dude. Yeah. And I recognize your loyalty, man. And and I appreciate everything that you do for the hobby and just you being a real one, man. I feel like speaking from the heart and and speaking from your experiences does more than swapping stickers. I really do. Um, so I appreciate everything, dude. Where can people follow you at?

Can I drop my Can I drop my Patreon here?

Yeah, drop it all. Yep.

I'm on IG civil civil.serpents.

Yeah. Um, I have a really cool chat group, but it's super exclusive. And we talk a lot of [ __ ] So, if you can't handle that, you probably shouldn't even request to join. But you can go on there. It's like uh it's like my free Patreon, dude. Imagine that, dude. I can like talk. And there's a lot of heavy hitters in there. We got Will in there from RCR.

Uh, just, you know, there a lot of people in there. A lot of lot of information thrown around. Steve from Las Vegas. Ball pythons.

Nice.

Just to name a few off the top of my head. I can't remember everybody right now. I'm high. Sorry. But yeah, there's it's uh we have a good time in there. Um, yeah, just uh I also want to say, dude, that my DMs are always open if anyone's got any questions or has any concerns or, you know, or or just wants information that that possibly maybe I that I have. I'm an open book on all accord.

[ __ ] yeah. Well, I'll put the link to uh Jacob's Instagram in the description below. Go give him a follow and cannot wait to have you back some night, man. Appreciate it. But give it up. It's a wrap for Jacob Civil Service, ladies and gentlemen. Good night. Thanks for coming on.

Thanks, Jacob. Have a good night, bro. Appreciate you.

[ __ ] good guy, man. Good episode. Great. Fire. What' you think?

Great. It's great.

Go get some [ __ ] rest, dude.

Yeah, we went long today. It's not Hey, Jacob's Hey, you know what? It's good for people to get to know Jacob. Jacob's a nice guy, bro. He I know he could come off as a lightning rod here and there, but I mean he's [ __ ] he's [ __ ] awesome, you know?

Yeah. I mean.

He's a great guy, man. Just I mean, if you just want to kind of talk about the knowledge behind things, like, dude, can't take that away from him. Guy knows his [ __ ].

Um, but yeah, great episode. I appreciate you guys. Please, Verina Reptiles on IG. Go subscribe. Appreciate you so much. Give it a wrap. It's a rap for Piggy Top G, ladies and.

All right, bro. Later, guys.

All right. Have a good night. I appreciate you so much, dude. All right, guys. Thank you so much. Anyone out there, uh, if this is your first time watching, please hit that subscribe button for me. Hit that notification bell. Um, select all. You'll be a reminder every single podcast. And again, man, what a good crowd tonight. Please get the likes up. Um, let's hit that like button for Jacob. Shout out to Lomi Krug, man. God damn, this woman went ballistic on the super chats. I will be donating these super chats to uh Vin Russo um and his GoFundMe. So, um, yeah, thank you so much, Krue. Really, really means a lot. And again, uh, guys, if you're looking for exclusive content, make sure you come join the Trap Talk Patreon family. Simply click the very first link in description below, connect to the Discord, and also connect to the Instagram group chat. If you want to talk about diversity in the reptile game, where to learn where some of the best species kept are, Trap Talk Patreon family is the best place for that. All right, Patreon members, you guys are my heart. Uh, shout out to all my sponsors. You guys can find all my sponsors information in the description below. But before we do, please check out my sponsors. Have a good night. I'll catch you here tomorrow for All in the Tree Tuesday. And yeah, peace.

One of the biggest growths we have in the reptile industry today are the rare species of reptiles that aren't worked with. That's right. That's why I went ahead and partnered up again with Brian Susan over at Sundown Reptiles. Brian works with species such as Cahooa geckos, gargoyle geckos, all species of tree monitors. He works with abonia and many other cool species geckos that you can check out all on his website. Head over to sundownrettiles.com. See what he has available. Brian's one of the best doing it in the reptile industry today. He's been on the show multiple times. So, make sure you check out all of Brian Susan's episodes on Trap Talk Reptile Network, but more importantly, for the highest quality of captive bred reptiles. Make sure you head over to sundownretiles.com and make sure you give him a follow on Instagram. Thank you again, Brian Susan over at Sundown Reptiles. One of the things I love about being a part of the reptile industry is all the learning. Okay, learning can be fun and I could prove that to you. Thank you so much to today's sponsor, Gary Scabino over at GS Reptiles. I highly recommend you head over to his YouTube channel, follow all this man's content when it comes to learning about rare species of snakes you could be keeping in the hobby and also just finding out how easy a lot of these rare species of snakes are to keep in general. So, thank you so much, Gary Scabino of GS Reptiles. Again, head over to his YouTube channel. Also, head over to his Instagram to be on top of all of his current work and be ready for a big year over at GS Reptiles. Thank you so much, Gary, for your ongoing support. I really appreciate it.